I realize this isn't skyscraper related, but I was looking for some advice. I'm in a bit of a bind money-wise, and it looks as though I found a sweet deal in W. Garfield Park, but I checked it out on google, and it looks a little suspect. I'm not really bothered by ghetto areas, because from my experiences, just mind your own business and things are fine, but I just wanted to see what others thought. I've heard some iffy stories that are making me a little nervous. Basically, will I be safe?

Thanks

I've lived in some dodgy areas as well, but West Garfield Park takes the cake! Remember that Garfield Park and neighboring Austin are among the worst areas in the city. I definitely wouldn't recommend moving there, but it really depends on your comfort level. I can't imagine saving a buck would be worth the effort of living in such a dangerous neighborhood. I'm sure someone here will say "northsider, what are you talking about? I live there or visit there and nothing ever happens to me". Well, maybe so, but just check the crime statistics...

I have been to nearly every neighborhood in the city (during the day) and felt ok. W/E Garfield Park and Austin (and maybe Englewood) are the only areas where I really got the willies. Driving through, fine. Walking with a group of people during the day, fine. Living there, dunno about that.


p.s. You went to Sao Paulo? How'd you enjoy it?

Sao Paulo was AMAZING!

So much fun. It was perfect. I got hosted on couchsurfing.org, and I stayed with the nicest guy ever. I got to explore during the day, meet strangers, and try all sorts of new food. At night he'd pick me up and we'd go out to restaurants and clubs. I was amazed by SP...I didn't think cities could be that big.

I should really make a photothread. Actually, I think I'll do that now

Sweet, I want to go back there too!

i live in east garfield park and as long as you have some common sense and keep your head up youll be fine. As for west garfield park i wouldnt bother as the deals in east garfield park are great and its definatly a gentrifying area.

^^^^
around where in east garfield park do you live?
definitely gentrifying? hmmmm. i know its getting a bit better
but its still pretty scary,
my mom grew up around chicago and homan and that
place aint much different.
Watching city data forum alot of people are regretting
buying in humbodlt park which is definitely a less sketchy hood
and right across from wicker park/bucktown.

is there places safe to hang out there?
are there good pockets there?
i know there are good pockets of austin.

i live in east garfield park and as long as you have some common sense and keep your head up youll be fine. As for west garfield park i wouldnt bother as the deals in east garfield park are great and its definatly a gentrifying area.

I knew someone would say it's 'ok'. I think this really depends on your comfort level. I would suggest to take a day and just walk (not drive) around and get a feel for the neighborhood.

i think the fellow poster is more risk oblivious/risk aware than i am

check this link to see the waves of gentrification. (something we should all know by now by heart)

In his 2001 paper "Three Cheers for Gentrification," Duany identifies three stages of inner-city transformation: A "spontaneous" first wave of "risk-oblivious" low-income pioneers (students, artists, gays, and other self-marginalized social groups) who discover the allure of the area. Then he sees a second wave of "risk-aware" investors, mobile enough to secure loans and therefore capable of satisfying building codes and permits "that the first wave probably ignored." These are baby boomers who "enjoy the bohemian lifestyle while holding secure jobs." This is followed by a third, "risk-averse" wave, made up of "conventional developers who thoroughly smarten up the buildings through conventional real estate operations -physical renovation, improved maintenance, and organized security."

http://mbourbaki.blogspot.com/2009/11/social-cost-of-gentrification.html


east garfield park is too risk oblivious to me.
bullets and needles and drug baggies in parkway? hey no problem. huh?

live on carroll between kedzie and sacramento, all artist lofts on the whole street. As a whole most of the "whites/yuppies, lets not skirt the subject" If there either investors or artists or hipsters do show that gentrification is happening. Especially in all the condo buildings on warren and washington. Im not sure if there "risk oblivious" that makes them sound like they decided to move from another state and didnt know what they are getting into or something. Risk aware I agree with and if your not you would most likely become so. Security on your doors and keeping valuables out of your car are most likely things people in any neighborhood should be aware of.
As for the vibe of the neighborhoods I would say its a cross of being close to the city just 3-4 miles straight west of downtown with 2 Ls in close proximity. But still being car dependent as there is a shortage of decent businesses and no banks or grocery stores, United center and west town are close though. As for deals I just bought a house on the 2900 block of wilcox for 15k Just got a quote from my contractor to gut rehab the place and it will be just below 55grand. So when its done Ill have basically a brand new house for 70 grand. The neighors nearly identical house next door appraised for 290k last year not saying thats what it will be worth but I can hope it might in a few years. If you look past the disrepair there are some very beautiful buildings in that neighborhood that could easily be brought back to their former glory. Wicker park in the 80s and 90s was considered one of the worst neighborhoods in the city and look at it now, its got to start somewhere, You just have to decide at what point you want to jump aboard, it may be 10 years before there are businesses in the neighborhood and people feel safe at night who knows.

http://www.2620lofts.com/

almost looks 3rd wave "risk averse" to me, indoor parking and even a dog run on the roof

its makes sense that this is the part of east garfield park improving first
its near tritaylor and west loop/nearwestside
and is along the green line,

some of the new construction on western around there is hideous
i think around the expressway,
but overall most new construction is not bad,

west garfield park definitely risk oblivious

but still some concentrated low income housing around there right?

http://news.medill.northwestern.edu/chicago/news.aspx?id=144953

Fear of crime scares residents, promotes creativity
by Alison Fox
Nov 05, 2009

..........., she moved into her building partly because of the rooftop dog park. (and) takes the elevator up four floors to walk her dog,

Most people head out to the street, but ..... she uses the rooftop dog park in her apartment building because she feels unsafe walking around her neighborhood at night.

(her) choices echo what experts say is repeated elsewhere whenever someone feels threatened: seeking out creative ways to live in a neighborhood and still feel safe.

Montana, 24, said she uses the roof for her long-haired dachshund to avoid the prostitution she has witnessed outside her door at night.

“It’s kind of sketchy outside,” she said. “You always want to watch your back out there.”

http://news.medill.northwestern.edu/chicago/news.aspx?id=144953

Fear of crime scares residents, promotes creativity
by Alison Fox
Nov 05, 2009

..........., she moved into her building partly because of the rooftop dog park. (and) takes the elevator up four floors to walk her dog,

Most people head out to the street, but ..... she uses the rooftop dog park in her apartment building because she feels unsafe walking around her neighborhood at night.

(her) choices echo what experts say is repeated elsewhere whenever someone feels threatened: seeking out creative ways to live in a neighborhood and still feel safe.

Montana, 24, said she uses the roof for her long-haired dachshund to avoid the prostitution she has witnessed outside her door at night.

“It’s kind of sketchy outside,” she said. “You always want to watch your back out there.”

That's kind of an alarmist article. The neighborhoods that alot of those people were pulled from are some of the safest of major city neighborhoods (Lincoln Park... really??). Considering that some of them self-professed of coming from homogenous suburbs, I wonder how much of their crime wariness is coded racism or classism. If they really wanted some alarmist interviews, they should've interviewed some people at UChicago in Hyde Park. For some reason (maybe because I was a middle-class, assimilated minority), I've had people there confide in me about their perceptions about neighborhood safety in Hyde Park being colored by the presence of black people and poor people, despite Hyde Park's generally good record of neighborhood safety.

I wonder how much of their crime wariness is coded racism or classism
Well, honestly, I'd rather be called a racist or a classist than be victim of a violent crime. You can't go walking around pretending everything is peachy cream, especially in a neighborhood that for decades has been among the worst in the nation. Am I racist that I never wanted to leave my Logan Square apartment at night? Maybe...but the 2 teenagers shot on my corner last February really doesn't boost my expectations of the neighborhood, and neither does the drug payphone across the street.

Should they should walk around like Garfield Park is safe? They shouldn't be careful or shouldn't be wary? I think everyone should be wary in Chicago, and the crimes that happened over the summer have shown that even in "safe" neighborhoods bad crimes can happen.

It's kind of a double edged sword. On one hand these people are letting their "color perceptions", as you put it, dictate their behavior because they come from relatively safe and homogeneous suburbs. Now if these people were walking their dog down the street and get mugged and/or shot, I can imagine all of the "duh, what are these idiot suburbanites thinking?" sort of posts we would see.

i drove around east garfield park a bit the other day, and took california north from roosevelt and north of lake street and then had to take side street because california ends,

i keep forgetting that and then took sacramento north.
That is a very very tough dangerous neigborhood, im not sure where this building is but its close by i know that.

And its not alarmist of an article, im surprised she even lives there.

WOW! the kids were out on the streets at night, which along with the general poor condition of the buildings will give you the major heebeejeebees.

there was a cool looking antique store at california and jackson just north of the 90/94 that i might come back to, but only if i get parking right outside of it. the store looks well protected 2. tough hood. But yes there is potential, it has location, the el and nice buildings, the denizens however are ummm
scary.

coded classism or rascism?
maybe the victim should have this argument
as the assailants/muggers do what they do best.

"Yeah but, im not classist or rascist, coded or otherwise."
They will look at you weird (or not even), and then just continue on doing
what they need to do.

https://ssl.perfora.net/www.arthurswirgonltd.com/sess/utn;jsessionid=154b0c0e2e816c9/shopdata/index.shopscript

320 s california,
atleast its right by the expressway, now that ive
seen how expensive it is i dont think i will drop by
you would think that it would be a bit cheaper
given how risky the area is, but hey im glad there is a
semicool business there.

I hope y'all realize I wasn't making a general statement. When I did crew in college, getting to our launching point involved going through the massive state street projects (remember those?), so I'm not advocating being blissfully oblivious. I was making a specific statement about some of the people in the article, like the person in lincoln park who refuses to go out out of fear of safety. If you can't feel safe in an upper-middle class neighborhood, maybe your issue isn't safety...

I hope y'all realize I wasn't making a general statement. When I did crew in college, getting to our launching point involved going through the massive state street projects (remember those?), so I'm not advocating being blissfully oblivious. I was making a specific statement about some of the people in the article, like the person in lincoln park who refuses to go out out of fear of safety. If you can't feel safe in an upper-middle class neighborhood, maybe your issue isn't safety...

http://chicago.everyblock.com/crime/locations/neighborhoods/lincoln-park/?page=1

Theft, battery, assault...no neighborhood is "safe" from crime. Someone coming from a rural town of 300 people will see this as a dangerous area. Someone coming from Englewood would see this as a safe neighborhood...it's all relative. Which goes back to my original point to the OP. Check out the neighborhood for himself and decide based on his own comfort level.

If you can't feel safe in an upper-middle class neighborhood, maybe your issue isn't safety...
But yes, you do have a point...maybe city life isn't for them.

Theft, battery, assault...no neighborhood is "safe" from crime.

True. I also agree that "safe" is usually a code word for race/class.

However, risks are VERY relative. A resident of East Garfield Park was 33X more likely to be murdered than a resident of Lincoln Park in 2004; a resident of Washington Park, 44X.

Sure, much of the local crime is gang-related, and those who keep their heads down will probably stay out of harm's way. However, that's not a burden that most of us want to deal with on a regular basis.

Also, luketownsend: you do realize that the $290K appraisal from 2008 means *nothing*, right? The world is a very different place.

yes of course i am aware of that, but im also aware that it will rent for 1800 a month and i have a property manager that will take care of everything. It will be a nice neighborhood someday, look at the south loop, west loop, united center,and wicker park. They were all worse then GP in there heyday. Its pushing west and its only a matter of time, when a person decides if its too dangerous to live there and not worth the risk/payoff then thats up to them.

i will go back and check out that area you are at
luketownsend,

im not being negative, just playing devils advocate,
i do believe the area is getting better slowly,
i just dont know it that well and im afraid of it,
but im sure there are good patches

i will check out another patch.

very interesting part of chicago

http://www.austinweeklynews.com/main.asp?SectionID=1&SubSectionID=1&ArticleID=2565


cool pictures of then and now
and about efforts to improve this hood (east garfield park)

You won't have to worry about being shot, but you would have to worry about being mugged. So don't carry too much cash around with you. But some cash is good - so you got emergency money in case something happens (to give away).

In any event, carry pepper spray / Mace around with you, or whatever your choice of weapon. Even if nothing ever happens to you, you can still witness crime and it's handy to have someone around calling 911 on their cell to report something.

I know a guy that lives by Albany on Arthington (3100 W., 900 S. I think) and it was an okay neighborhood, there was often middle school and elementary school children biking/running around.

Chicago's Challenge: Maintaining a strong middle class
Next mayor to take on redevelopment plans, anemic housing market

January 03, 2011|By Antonio Olivo, Tribune reporter
Not long ago, the promise of a vibrant middle class flickered in Chicago neighborhoods like East Garfield Park.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2011-01-03/news/ct-met-challenge-middle-class-20110103_1_middle-class-neighborhoods-mixed-income-communities

The long-struggling West Side community showed signs of improvement after city crews tore down the dilapidated Rockwell Gardens public housing high-rise complex, part of an ambitious citywide plan to create mixed-income communities where poverty and crime once prevailed.

Middle-class families moved into the clusters of town homes and condominiums that sprouted in East Garfield Park. But several years later, those homeowners are stepping outside their doors and looking anxiously at the vacant lots and shuttered stores that still greet them.

The same scene plays out in several neighborhoods targeted for redevelopment by Mayor Richard Daley's administration, presenting a significant challenge for Chicago's next mayor as the city struggles to keep a strong middle-class base amid an anemic market for housing and commercial development.

"I'm definitely disappointed," said Latisha Thompson, 29, recalling the excitement she felt as a newlywed in 2007 when she and her husband, Lashawn, moved into their two-story East Garfield Park town house, replete with trendy amenities like granite countertops and tall windows.

"I did research and discovered how East Garfield Park was an up-and-coming neighborhood," Thompson said. "Once we closed, the recession came."

Maintaining a strong middle-class population with safe neighborhoods, jobs, quality housing and good schools will continue to be a mandate for big-city mayors for years to come. In Chicago, efforts to transform troubled neighborhoods into vibrant mixed-income communities, like the city's attempts to improve schools, have proceeded unevenly.

With the economic collapse at the end of the last decade, the rug's been pulled out from neighborhoods throughout Chicago. Dozens of South Loop condominium buildings have unsold units that are up for rent, and home foreclosures threaten the stability of once solidly middle-class blocks in communities including Uptown, Avondale and Chatham.

"We have to work hard, and we have to redouble our efforts," said Joel Bookman, co-director of LISC Chicago, a community development group helping to coordinate a $47 million New Communities Program to bring stability to 16 neighborhoods.

Page 2 of 4)
"You want to feel like you have a community that has possibility and that has growth rather than looking at vacant lots, boarded-up buildings and foreclosed properties that not only give a sense of insecurity, but also decrease property values and give people the feeling that their neighborhood and the city is on the decline," Bookman said.

Such perceptions have driven many middle-class residents out of Chicago, as manufacturing jobs disappeared, the crime rate soared and public schools were branded as the nation's worst.

For years, miles of high-rise public housing buildings stretched across the city's skyline, blocking off entire neighborhoods from any hopes of improvement and further defining Chicago as an urban failure.



Today, much of the city's stability rides on the success of the $1.6 billion effort launched by Daley in 2000 to tear down those public housing towers, sending thousands of Chicago's poorest residents to new neighborhoods.

As part of the Chicago Housing Authority's Plan for Transformation, the mixed-income developments going up in those neighborhoods are meant to be cornerstones for further growth, luring urban pioneers whose presence there would then attract new stores, restaurants, better schools and even more residential development.

The plan has worked in some neighborhoods, most notably, the area near the Gold Coast that was home to the infamous Cabrini-Green housing complex. Synonymous for decades with urban despair, the community has been transformed to a bustling center of urban chic, even before the CHA began demolishing the last high-rise building there last month.

But in other Plan for Transformation communities, the weak economy has altered plans for new development, generating concerns about an effort that has been blamed for destabilizing some neighborhoods.

Unable to attract enough interest for the middle-income homes that are the linchpins of those developments, several developers have recently won approval to instead build more rental homes, including public housing units and other low-income apartments.

That has stirred worries that pockets of poverty are being re-created, though a federal judge overseeing the effort has emphasized the importance of including the mixed-income units.

If you get too much rental, and too much of it is low income, the neighborhood can get fixed with an image that is hard to change, so that's an ongoing concern," said Alexander Polikoff, a director at Business and Professional People for the Public Interest, a law and policy group that has monitored the Plan for Transformation's efforts as part of a federal court settlement stemming from a 1966 class-action lawsuit.

In a 2009 report, BPI criticized developers for the "slow pace" of building on middle-income homes that could have been sold when the housing market was still strong.

The report also found that planning for retail development was lacking in several neighborhoods, creating blocks of town homes and condominiums with no nearby grocery stores or other shopping outlets.


"An important thing to think about in the next mayor's tenure is to not think about community development and the Plan for Transformation as two distinct things," said Julia Stasch, vice president of U.S. programs at the MacArthur Foundation, which is helping to fund the CHA effort and other community development programs. "It's time to bring these giant efforts together and think about them more holistically."

CHA officials said the Plan for Transformation effort has slowed, but continues as originally conceived — with a third of those new developments dedicated to middle-income families, a third meant for public housing and a third slated as "affordable housing" for low-income residents.

"Obviously, we've all been affected (by the economy); home sales are slower," said Marilyn Katz, whose public relations firm represents the CHA. "Financing is tougher."

In East Garfield Park, signs of the neighborhood's stunted transformation are everywhere. On one Western Avenue corner, newly built condominium apartments sit empty across the street from Felony Franks, a hot-dog stand committed to hiring ex-convicts. Nearby, other new homes overlook vacant lots and corners known for prostitution and a still-active drug trade.

Clifton Cooper, a local real estate broker who also heads the East Garfield Park Community Coalition neighborhood group, said the area began improving after the crime-plagued Rockwell Gardens complex began coming down.


Sitting less than a 10-minute drive from downtown Chicago, with the lush Garfield Park Conservatory even closer, the neighborhood has attracted young professionals buying their first homes — many of them city police officers, firefighters and other government workers.

When the economy soured, several area businesses shut down, and home sales and construction stopped. The hardening climate grew even more noticeable when developers at the old Rockwell Gardens site recently won approval to build 65 more public-housing units ahead of the market-rate homes community leaders expected.

"How do you knock down the projects and come back and build up the projects all over again?" Cooper said. "We want the kind of housing where we can attract businesses and other things here."

Latisha and Lashawn Thompson said they hope to stick it out until that day comes.

The couple have played an active role in their neighborhood. In the evenings, they and other newer homeowners attend crime-prevention meetings. On weekends, Latisha Thompson picks up empty beer bottles and other litter from the vacant lots on her block.

Lashawn Thompson — like his wife a federal Transportation Security Administration worker at O'Hare International Airport — has politely but forcefully asked loiterers to stop hanging out near their fence.

"We're just staying optimistic about the neighborhood," Lashawn Thompson, 30, said, standing inside his upstairs exercise room. Visibly proud of his home, he pointed out a hallway skylight and the earth-tone color scheme he picked for their master bedroom.

Outside a nearby window, the view was of a cluster of men hanging out near a Kedzie Avenue liquor store.

"Things take time, so we just have to be patient," Thompson said, taking in the scene.

W Garfield Park is dicey. Come nightfall, people shuffle around like zombies. Unless you are totally taken by the building and just have to live there, I'd take a pass.

Unless you are totally taken by the building and just have to live there, I'd take a pass.

I wouldn't even fall into that trap. As much as you love the building, if the location is terrifying you'll never be happy.

I think Garfield park - austin was mentioned as a trouble spot in the new series The Chicago Code.