Red Hook Brooklyn - Which Development Do You Like Better?

[New Jack City]

Red Hook is scheduled to get an IKEA, but recently a village proposal by a developer has emerged which would be a multi-use development. Which development do you like better?

Here's articles and information about the two...

IKEA:

NY1

IKEA Sets Sights On Red Hook Waterfront For New Store Location

http://www.ny1.com/Content/images/live/61/120119.jpg

APRIL 16TH, 2004

The trek to New Jersey or Long Island for affordable and trendy furniture may soon be a thing of the past for New Yorkers. That's because IKEA has designs on opening a store in Brooklyn.

The Swedish furniture maker wants to build a giant new store on a section of the Red Hook waterfront. It's in contract to buy a 23-acre site along the waterfront at the former site of the New York Shipyard.

Company officials say they've been looking in Brooklyn for some time and this location works because it can accomodate a full size store, both above and underground parking and ferry service to and from Manhattan.

An IKEA spokesman says New Yorkers spend about $100 million a year at its stores outside the city.

The company presented revised plans for the new store Thursday to more than 100 residents and the local community board.

Some residents say they don't want the mega-store in their neighborhood, but IKEA says its new plan gives local residents access to the waterfront, which they didn't have before.

“The beauty of this site is that the residents of Red Hook are within, in some cases, a couple hundred feet from the waterfront, and you would never know it from being down there,” said Pat Smith of IKEA. “That street wall completely blocks off all the views and all the access to the waterfront. So, in connection with our site plan, we’re going to be creating about a 6.5-acre waterfront park.”

“It’s all about jobs,” said one area resident Lou Sones. “However, what Red Hook has to offer that will create more jobs is the charm from the waterfront that will create more jobs. The major asset is the charm from the waterfront that will bring the hotels, the marinas, the restaurants and thousands of jobs. Ikea will destroy that charm and will destroy our waterfront by using a not-waterfront appropriate facility.”

But other residents say the area needs the jobs, which could total 500-600 new positions that Ikea says will be offered to local residents first.

"Give these kids some jobs," said resident Ray Hall. "Red Hook crime is down. Let's reward the kids with jobs. That's all I have to say. One hundred percent for Ikea."

But opponents have another idea that they say will give them even more acces to their waterfront. They envision a mixed use urban village and have a design created by architect Alex Washburn.

"This particular model of mixed-use brings more jobs, brings more investment, brings more public access and it's a more imaginative use of the waterfront," said Washburn pointing out his design.

But IKEA says Washburn's plan is just a design on paper and its project will move forward.

IKEA is hoping to clear all the approval hurdles by the end of the year and start construction in 2005.

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Village alternate proposal...

NY POST

HOOK'S NEW LOOK

http://www.nypost.com/photos/news0413200421.jpg
YES, IT'S BROOKLYN: A rendering of an urban village proposed for Red Hook, Brooklyn. The proposal, by a Baltimore-based developer, would bring apartments, parks, shops and eateries to the mostly industrial nabe.

April 13, 2004 -- This ain't your grandfather's Red Hook.

The waterfront neighborhood of moody industrial streets could become a village of shops, apartments, restaurants and parks under a developer's proposal put forward as an alternative to a planned IKEA superstore.

The Swedish furniture giant is buying an old shipping building for a new megastore, but still requires city approval for a zoning change.

The IKEA project has split the neighborhood along color lines, with poorer African-Americans wanting the jobs, while middle-class whites oppose the traffic it would cause.

But supporters of the urban village alternative, proposed by Baltimore developer Struever Bros. Eccles & Rouse, say their idea would make everyone happy by creating more jobs and drawing less traffic through streets already full of trucks and buses.

"We're coming up with something much, much better," said John McGettrick, co-chair of the Red Hook Civic Association, who supports the village proposal. "There would be far more opportunities for Red Hook."

The 7-million-square- foot, mostly residential plan would also include retail and office space up to eight stories high and parks and recreation space. It would create at least 4,000 jobs, said developer Bill Struever.

The plan includes a three-mile promenade along the waterfront. IKEA's proposal features a one-mile walkway.

"The [area] is just gorgeous," Struever said. "They would tear every stick down and create a big parking lot and big box."

Struever's biggest hurdle is the $6 million per year in sales-tax revenue that IKEA claims it will generate for the city. The store would also create at least 500 jobs.

"This is not a big leap of faith," he argued. "You stand out there on the piers, and it's hard not to be excited."

But IKEA project manager Pat Smith snorted at the plan.

"By their own admission, they need 70 acres," he said. "Where are they going to get the property?"

Both ideas would rely on tax breaks and require city approval to change the zoning.

[Ed007Toronto]

Not even close. The Village proposal looks like the best.

[Philip Cronin]

The success of IKEA is a mystery to me. They have a reputation for selling stylish products, but from what I have seen, they actually sell cheap bland slightly shoddy products. The gap between image and reality allows them to sell huge quantities of economy-price goods, without middle-class people being embarrassed to admit to shopping there. One would think that this illusion would have burst by now, but it shows no sign of doing so. New York won't be missing anything if it doesn't get an IKEA.

The other proposal is interesting, though one small picture isn't enough to judge its quality. I find it surprising that there are so few marinas and boating enthusiasts in New York, as there are lots of places to sail.

[3tmk]

so that's the thing I saw on NY1 yesterday. I caught only the end and didn't get what it was about!
I like the IKEA plan, but the Village is a thousand times better.

[New Jack City]

A larger rendering of the IKEA plan from the Daily News:

http://www.nydailynews.com/ips_rich_content/465-boros0418.JPG

Here's the scan from the NY Post of the village alternate proposal, thanks to NYguy.

http://www.pbase.com/image/27911538.jpg

[lokinyc]

No, as a resident of the area, I am in support of the IKEA plan. The village will completely destroy the feel of Red Hook. It's basically Baltimore's Inner Harbor built in Brooklyn. That area of the Hook is already slowly being reclaimed by Fairway and warehouse conversions. Destroying what's there to rebuild these townhomes I believe is the wrong direction. We don't need another West Village in Red Hook.

[Ed007Toronto]

So a big box store with a large parking will give Red Hook a more authentic feel? And, I'm sure, that garish blue and yellow signage will really fit in with the old neighbourhood.

[Knishman9985]

I support the village idea since it would force close all the low income houses down. Those PROJECTS have been the terror of nieghborhood. I hope that someday that nieghborhood will be cleaned out and i hope they add a subway line going there.

[3tmk]

apparently Ikea won the competition :down:

Panel Approves Plan by Ikea to Open Store in Red Hook
By DIANE CARDWELL
Published: October 6, 2004

The notion of shopping for minimalist furniture while nibbling Swedish meatballs within view of the Statue of Liberty took a major step forward yesterday as a City Council panel approved a plan for what is likely to become New York City's first Ikea, along the Brooklyn waterfront in Red Hook.

The approval came despite opposition from some residents to the Swedish furniture giant's plopping a 22-acre mall on the waterfront in a once-neglected industrial area that has caught the eye of developers in recent years. To help sell its plan, the company included several inducements designed to curb traffic and help the neighborhood, including free weekend ferry service from Manhattan, enhanced transit connections and the promise of jobs for residents.

The Ikea plan received unanimous approval from the Council's zoning and franchise subcommittee. And open support from City Council leaders practically guarantees passage by the full Council next week.

"I am very proud to be part of the first Ikea store that is coming into the city of New York," said Melinda Katz, the chairwoman of the Land Use Committee, which is scheduled to approve the project today. "I think that it is rare that as chairs of this committee that we're able to actually do something substantive on the economy alone that I think will be extremely helpful to this city, and hopefully other corporations and other companies will follow suit."

The approval comes at a time when the future of the Brooklyn waterfront appears to be taking shape. A Fairway supermarket is under construction near the Ikea site, while Bloomberg administration officials have been formulating a plan that would put a cruise ship terminal nearby and potentially move the Brooklyn Brewery, complete with a beer garden, to a neighboring pier.

In addition, the city's long-term trash management plan, due out tomorrow, will resolve questions about whether marine transfer stations in Brooklyn will be rebuilt and put into service. And this week, the City Planning Commission began its review of an enormous proposal to rezone parts of Greenpoint and Williamsburg to encourage residential, commercial and recreational development.

In its first urban foray in the metropolitan region, Ikea plans to build a 346,000-square-foot blue-and-yellow box on the old New York Shipyard lot, bordered by Van Brunt, Halleck, Beard and Columbia Streets and the waters of the Erie Basin. Ikea officials said the complex would include parking, three additional structures for other stores or restaurants and a 6.3-acre public esplanade, which in a video tour by the company appeared lushly landscaped.

In response to concerns about accessibility and traffic congestion, the company pledged to pay for several improvements and amenities, like the free weekend ferry service to the store from Manhattan along with free shuttle buses from subway stations in Downtown Brooklyn, at Smith and Ninth Streets and at Fourth Avenue and Ninth Street. There are also plans for an extension of the B-61 bus to the store from its current terminus a few blocks away at Van Brunt Street. The company has also committed itself to helping improve several dangerous intersections in the area.

"There hasn't been an investment of this size since World War II," said Sara Gonzalez, the councilwoman who represents the neighborhood. She added that although the property had sat fallow for decades, "no one ever stepped forward and had a financial commitment for that site until Ikea put their proposal and their money on the table."

But those concessions did little to quiet some opposition to the project, which has pitted homeowners against public housing residents. The issue even divided residents of the Red Hook Houses, which accounts for about 75 percent of the neighborhood's population.

The company had invested heavily in building support for the store among the public housing tenants, in part by promising 500 to 600 jobs in an area that has struggled to inch its way out of blight. Ikea officials say they plan to create a training program to prepare residents of the 11231 ZIP code to apply for the jobs and would then accept their applications before others'.

But opponents argued that the company had misled people with false expectations because Ikea officials would not make any guarantees about whom they would ultimately hire.

"If the implied employment promises don't materialize," said Charles H. Davis, a private housing tenant, "there is likely to be a pronounced increase in alienation by the most deprived section of the community, especially of unemployed young men who will legitimately feel that they have been deceived."

Some of the proponents, who in the end held sway with the Council subcommittee, saw the issue differently. Saying that she "would be a fool" to assert that all of the jobs will go to Red Hook residents, Pauline Blake, a member of Community Board 6, said that there was value in training people so that they would then have the ability and self-esteem to apply for other jobs. "What else would they do if they didn't have this opportunity?" she asked. "They would be where they are today, on the street corners of Red Hook."
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2004/10/06/nyregion/06ikea.650.jpg
from the NYT:
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/06/nyregion/06ikea.html?oref=login

[Ellatur]

but not much people likes IKEA plan..
anyways, im happy they are revamping that place up

[nimbyhater]

simply because i dont wanna see a bland, generic, big box retailer in a great, unique city like new york... ill take the village idea over ikea... but the village idea also luks pretty bland and generic... i mean... a thousand cities have plans for this exact thing... i dont know if its because its just a preliminary rendering,,, but this village idea needs a little more new york in it...

[Ellatur]

the village looks kinda 18th century :)

[LeCom]

The village. They wanted to put IKEA in bklyn a while ago but many opposed. Think of the new traffic in the boro.

[FerrariEnzo]

Who among us voted for IKEA????

[New Jack City]

NY POST

IKEA LANDS DEAL TO SET UP BROOKLYN SHOP

By STEVE CUOZZO

June 14, 2005 -- Capping a three-year quest to establish a home in Brooklyn, Ikea has closed on the $31.25 million purchase of a vast waterfront site in Red Hook, paving the way to build a $100 million, 346,000-square-foot superstore — its largest in the U.S.

Ikea wanted the 22.5 acres so badly that it was also willing to buy 25.5 acres for which it won't likely have much immediate use. That's because they're in the water — in the form of dry docks and piers formerly used by U.S. Dredging Corp., sellers of the entire 48-acre parcel.

Eastern Consolidated Vice Chairman Brian Ezratty, who represented U.S. Dredging with Eastern's Jeffrey B. Troy and Louis Ricci, called it "an important milestone for all city residents" that would "mean jobs for Brooklyn residents and a boon for shoppers."

Neither of New Jersey's two Ikea stores "is easily accessed by public transportation, so having a retail center closer to Manhattan is a huge benefit," Ezratty said.

Rothwood Real Estate Services President Kenneth S. Roth, Ikea's broker, said it took 15 months to find a location suitable for the enormous store and parking lot.

The deal was complicated and delayed by the need to win city approvals for the project, which included rezoning and a special permit to allow retail use in a manufacturing zone.

Most Red Hook residents welcomed the prospect of Ikea bringing hundreds of jobs to a once lively but today largely barren waterfront district of empty streets and warehouses. But some activists made a stink over traffic and environmental issues.

Roth said that while the deal remained in contract, the dredging company was able to operate as usual while Ikea got all the necessary approvals from the community board, the Planning Commission and the City Council.

http://www.therealdeal.net//breaking_news/2005/06/14/images/1118751818.jpg

[ramvid01]

the villiage plan by far looks like a loser. Im sry but if you ahvent realized the plan looks at best very bland. There are millions of these things to every city you go. On top of that many of the houses are built on the dry dock itself, which would probably cost quite a bit of money. Whos gonna live there, im pretty sure if youve ever been th ere its blocks and blocks of warehouses. The IKEA will bring jobs, which are sorely needed over housing, because if you dont ahve jobs, you dont have housing.

[Crimsonblake]

OMG. Sprawl in NYC? Dear god! Thats why i'm trying to move up there, to get away from this bland, big box, suburban hell! Don't bring it to NYC!

[sfenn1117]

There's already a giant Lowes, Home Depot, and Costco near that area, all with HUGE PARKING LOTS. It really sucks. Drag the grid through and put up townhouses and apartment buildingswith light retail, not big boxes.