Can somebody tell me why we are sitting on our hands and doing nothing about this evil shit??? Why is Mugabe still allowed to operate is beyond me. These latest outrages are just another in an endless list and yet we seem unwilling to take any decisive action.

Roy Bennet will be hung if found guilty of this trumped up charge.

Meanwhile, the article in this link describes how he is in Rome speaking at the Rome food summit! Using the platform to blame us for his problems.

And our response......

"Britain last month said it would provide £60 million in aid to try to ease the humanitarian crisis."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/italy/6591061/Robert-Mugabe-lashes-out-at-food-summit.html




Roy Bennett pleads not guilty as Mugabe murder plot trial begins

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/africa/article6919303.ece

A top aide to Morgan Tsvangirai, the Zimbabwean Prime Minister, pleaded not guilty yesterday to terror charges at the start of a trial that has strained the country’s unity Government to breaking point.

Roy Bennett, a former white farmer who is treasurer to Mr Tsvangirai’s Movement for Democratic Change (MDC), is accused of plotting to overthrow the Mugabe regime by force.

Lawyers and rights activists say that the charges have been trumped up to prevent him from joining the unity Government agreed last year at the behest of international mediators. Mr Bennett is accused of providing $5,000 (£3,000) to buy weapons, including eight Uzi sub-machineguns, 19 grenades and six stun grenades. Johannes Tomana, the Attorney-General, said that Mr Bennett’s plot had been hatched between 2002 and 2006.

“The accused Roy Bennett provided money to [arms dealer] Peter Michael Hitschmann for the procurement of the weapons,” Mr Tomana said in his submission.

“The accused person was the financier of the said firearms. The accused devised a plan of assassination of certain individuals in Government.” The plot was to be carried out in March 2006 when President Mugabe was attending a birthday party in the eastern city of Mutare.

Mr Hitschmann, who is the state’s key witness, faced similar charges in 2007 and was acquitted, although he was jailed for two years on lesser charges of possession of firearms. The coup allegations are contained in a “confession” extracted under torture from Mr Hitschmann, which was dismissed as inadmissible in his own trial.

“This is a malicious prosecution,” said Beatrice Mtetwa, the prominent human rights lawyer defending Mr Bennett. “His prosecution is the culmination of many attempts to have him prosecuted and targeted on charges without any evidence.” The charges carry the death penalty.

A Western diplomat said: “The case against Bennett is laughable but . . . that is no guarantee that he will get off. He is in serious danger.”

The trial continues today.

Just invade Zimbabwe and rescue the guy.

Can somebody tell me why we are sitting on our hands and doing nothing about this evil shit???

Basically, because nobody gives a shit about Africa.

When something like a terrorist attack happens in a developed country, people take notace - when an ethnic cleansing happens in a banana republic, people might give a couple of quid to charity, but otherwise, nothing is done.

Perhaps if Zimbabwe was sitting on oil, or had good post-war investment oppertunities, it would be a different matter.

As tempting as it is to just send British forces in - that would justify all the anti-colonial propaganda - it needs to be an international taskforce - this is what the UN is supposedly around for.

No ones gives a shit about Burma either. Or the Sudan. Or the Congo. Or loads of other countries which really should be aided (and I mean proper intervention, not throwing some food or money at their corrupt governments and agencies) by the UN, the EU, NATO or whoever.

^^

Sad but true.

If I had my way I would have had the leaders of such countries assassinated.


The problem is, those countries are surrounded by nations that seek to protect them from the 'big bad west' and as such they support the murderous regimes. Africa is a joke in general, the levels of corruption are fucking ridiculous yet they all blame colonialism. Well that's just bullshit, we haven't been there for nearly 50 years, comes a point where they need to take some fucking responsibility. Annoys me so much, the place has so much potential with massive mineral wealth, yet it's one of the most depressing, poverty stricken and corrupt places on the planet.

^^+1

Africa's a basket case. I don't see why we should direct even more money into the coffers of corruption riddled regimes or even discuss military intervention to remove twisted leaders like Mugabe. Africans need to help themselves and work to get themselves out of the mess they are in...or sink in their own shit whilst blaming the former colonial powers.

We cant think for ourselves and make our own decisions we only do what America tells us to do and that is to send troops to Afghanistan/Iraq.

Mugabe is a shit. He is a Black Supremicist racist bastard. He needs to be sorted out ASAP but nope, we are too busy with Americas wars.

Mugabe is a shit. He is a Black Supremicist racist bastard. He needs to be sorted out ASAP but nope, we are too busy with Americas wars.


Last time I checked Britain was not immune from Islamic terrorists......nor is Afghanistan just an 'American' war, tell that to the people of Pakistan, Istanbul, London, Madrid, Morocco, Algeria, Bali and India. As well as NATO and the other foreign nations that have a military presence there.

Last time I checked Britain was not immune from Islamic terrorists......nor is Afghanistan just an 'American' war, tell that to the people of Pakistan, Istanbul, London, Madrid, Morocco, Algeria, Bali and India. As well as NATO and the other foreign nations that have a military presence there.

No but we still followed the USA in there. We need to concentrate on what is truly important, which is Zimbabwe, the growing threat to the Falklands (again) and home defense.

Threat to the Falklands......seriously.

You've been spending too long in that thread. Zimbabwe also does not provide the training facilities for people that like blowing themselves up on tube trains. The defence of the UK also includes diminishing that threat, which means being present in Afghanistan and assisting Pakistan with the same issue.

You need some perspective.

I come from a Military Family so I DO have perspective. And actually, the threat to the Falklands is now very real as Argentina is waging Economic Warfare against the islands, actively blocking flights and shipping between them and Chile.

With Zimbabwe, there is a threat to people as Whites are being forced out of work, home and livelyhood by an oppresive anti-white government. As one of our former colonies we should be doing all we can to restore peace and decency.

Coming from a military family does not always give perspective. I'm from one as well, so don't bullshit.

The safety of the UK does not lie in the Falklands or Zimbabwe, that's utterly ridiculous to suggest.

Former colony being the correct term.

Sorry but what exactly are we achieving in Afghanistan and Iraq now?

well, it's sunnier in africa so we are sparing ourselves a lot of sunburn?

Sorry but what exactly are we achieving in Afghanistan and Iraq now?

Which should serve as a warning not to go interfering in the affairs of other countries in the future. Iraq certainly didn't pose a direct threat unless you belived the sexed up bullshit document concocted by Alistair Campbell.

Just so Blair could stand shoulder to shoulder with Bush...and drag the UK into the worst foreign policy blunder since Suez.

Part of Africa's problem is climate - while most of Asia and Europe had crops, cattle, mounts and stuff like that in abundance - and few predators or tropical diseases - African civilization had to contest with a climate in which the horse could not survive, few cattle, if any, can be raised, permanent crops could not be layed down, etc - its estimated Malaria knocks an entire percentage point off African growth - when colonial powers left the Congo, the railways were just swallowed by jungle.

In the 21st century, new technology may finally allow Africa to reach its potential, and the African Union may one day become a growth engine like India and China.

Colonialism did in many cases do lasting damage to socieities - the sort of stuff that can take decades to overcome. But, at the same time, Mugabe, and the people of Zimbabwe, have free will - they cannot blame all their choices on the after effects of colonialism. While you cannot impose rule of law and democracy on a people who don't want it - so that states like Afghanistan may be a lost cause, unless attitudes change there - I think Zimbabwe would probably be more receptive to international intervention than many states.

Colonialism did in many cases do lasting damage to socieities.

Like....?

In the days of empires Africa was relatively wealthy and stable and your average african, while treated like a second class citizen, had much better quality of life than he does today.

Surely you recognise that there was a bad side, as well as a good one, to colonialism?

It may sound a bit selfish but I am sceptical of donating money to African aid charities these days, after all isn't that just benevolent paternalism?

More to the point however is that a lot of African leaders are so corrupt that it is unlikely the money will ever make any difference. We have been sending these countries aid for decades and it has had little effect, they need to start sorting themselves out.

Surely you recognise that there was a bad side, as well as a good one, to colonialism?

Absolutely, but the good outweighs the bad.
Notice how its always utterly failed states in Africa that blame Europeans for their problems. They simply cant run their countries, they never could. Africa never had strong centralised states. Yes, there were empires and kingdoms, but they were all weak and in constant civil warfare, and thats exactly why Europeans were so successful in colonising Africa. Nothing has changed. We are not responsible for the fact that instead of promoting investment and tourism they prefer to be engaged in weapon-trade and tribal or civil wars. They only got themselves to blame for their problems and I dont see why we should be apologising or feeling ashamed of colonialism.

Africa I think one day will become a region of economic stability and growth, but more due to the positive influence and trade with China than the policies adopted by any western powers.

Unlike the west, China has not concerned itself with the internal politics of particular countries but has set up a series of deals purchasing raw materials in exchange for building basic infrastructure - as countries develop I think the political change required for stability will come as a result.

No but we still followed the USA in there. We need to concentrate on what is truly important, which is Zimbabwe, the growing threat to the Falklands (again) and home defense.

Of course we did. 67 British nationals and 16 foreign nationals with close British ties died in the Sept. 11 attacks. Afghanistan was a safe-haven for the terrorist before and the people suffered at the hands of the extremists. it would have been shameful to have left it to the Americans to sort out.


That said, I believe that we should find a way to solve Zimbabwe. The problem is that if we do it directly we will be seen as having colonial aspirations again...and it will play right into Mugabe's hands. South Africa needs to show more action on the issue but they are lacking so far...

That said, I believe that we should find a way to solve Zimbabwe. The problem is that if we do it directly we will be seen as having colonial aspirations again...and it will play right into Mugabe's hands.

I think his domestic support is very weak now. Economic ruin, famine, brutality and rigged elections have left him clinging onto power via his henchmen. I think the country would be glad to see the back of him and as long as we didnt overstay our welcome we would be supported.


South Africa needs to show more action on the issue but they are lacking so far...

Absolutely. We should be putting pressure on South Africa to stand up and do something. Or encouraging them via attractive trade agreements.

Africa I think one day will become a region of economic stability and growth, but more due to the positive influence and trade with China than the policies adopted by any western powers.

Unlike the west, China has not concerned itself with the internal politics of particular countries but has set up a series of deals purchasing raw materials in exchange for building basic infrastructure - as countries develop I think the political change required for stability will come as a result.

Basically China will do what the Europeans did just before the colonial period began? Strike deals over raw materials and other goods, but remain politically neutral.

You can't do that. Once you have investments in Africa, you have to protect them. To protect them, you need to influence the internal politics. To influence internal politics, you need to pay off or buy influential people etc. etc. That's how colonialism started in the first place. The Europeans got involved deeper and deeper into the local politics until they could control things.

As long as Africa has weak governments that can be manipulated by foreigners, they will continue to suffer exploitation, or "neocolonialism" as it is called today.

Basically China will do what the Europeans did just before the colonial period began? Strike deals over raw materials and other goods, but remain politically neutral.

You can't do that. Once you have investments in Africa, you have to protect them. To protect them, you need to influence the internal politics. To influence internal politics, you need to pay off or buy influential people etc. etc. That's how colonialism started in the first place. The Europeans got involved deeper and deeper into the local politics until they could control things.

As long as Africa has weak governments that can be manipulated by foreigners, they will continue to suffer exploitation, or "neocolonialism" as it is called today.

Yes I suppose its a vaild possibility, but maybe the world has moved on in its thinking a bit since then? Is it possible that China is helping to build up the economies of these countries so that they become a stable more wealthy marketplace and hence able to purchase more Chinese manufactured goods - similar in a way that the EU has pumped money into infrastructure in Ireland or the Eastern European states to build up their ability to trade?

Yes I suppose its a vaild possibility, but maybe the world has moved on in its thinking a bit since then? Is it possible that China is helping to build up the economies of these countries so that they become a stable more wealthy marketplace and hence able to purchase more Chinese manufactured goods - similar in a way that the EU has pumped money into infrastructure in Ireland or the Eastern European states to build up their ability to trade?

China's investment in Africa is as cynical for its age as Europe's was in its day. Certainly African governments will not have China's investment if they decide to recognise the independence of Taiwan. In addition look at the safety standards of Chinese owned mines in Africa, they'd put to shame even the most scrupulous Western owned industries.

Now don't get me wrong given the might of China I think we should beg at their feet for forgiveness if I am lucky I can secure a lucrative middle management in the occupying government processing contracts for the sale of white slaves to Chinese Iron mines.

Africa I think one day will become a region of economic stability and growth, but more due to the positive influence and trade with China than the policies adopted by any western powers.

Unlike the west, China has not concerned itself with the internal politics of particular countries but has set up a series of deals purchasing raw materials in exchange for building basic infrastructure - as countries develop I think the political change required for stability will come as a result.

You mean exactly what America, Japan and other developed countries have been doing?

Everyone has invested in third world countries in exchange for cheap resources, this is not new.