Hello folks,
This thing will be a wall. . 99% of us will have this specific view of our beloved fjord from our distinctive hills, blocked by a massive wall.


Hi! This simply isn't a reality, what hills are you talking about, because it's not Tøyen, not Ekeberg, not Enerhaugen, not SanktHans haugen, not Kjelsås, not Grefsen etc. you get the idea (If you don't believe check Klp tread, i've been all around the city talking photos of it from where it can be seen), i would like to see some photo from a location loosing their fjordview because of this. There are someone "loosing" their view in the Sinsen/Hasle area, but they would have lost even more with the original type of buildings proposed (10 floor blocks.), that is why we have gap between these highrises. And you can't say we could have built lower, since we depend on selling squaremeters to finance moving the port, and i think you would agree that this is worth the "cost", since we get a new citybourough, as the alternative was keeping the port?

Worth reposting this old photo (Sinsen) to prove my point - few have this view, but some of the blocks have a view from a lower point and they are loosing most of their fjordview wich they would anyway - barcode or carré would still mean lost view..
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll218/Ingenioren/Oslo/CSC_1315.jpg

On an other note, at Akershusstranda, a small piece of harbourpromenade has been fixed up:
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll218/Ingenioren/18nov/DSC_0726.jpg

I live in Gamlebyen (well, not yet technicly), and like most others living in Gamlebyen I don't have a view over the fjord. Only a very few elite appartments have such a view, and it's a no-brainer that there are only these elitists fighting with their hands and claws for the construction of nothing in the whole of Bjørvika and even Oslo's coastline at all. Therefor I feel pretty confident when I say I have [b]nothing[/] of NIMBY inside of me. Why would I else be a YIMBY? Of course I support relevant arguements like what will give to the city and what will keep suppluying us with homes and office space at reasonable prices, but non-measurable "valueables" like views, shadows, winds etc. doesn't affect me at all.

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll218/Ingenioren/Oslo/CSC_1315.jpg



excellent, this picture shows the only thing that will be lost from view is ugly industrial land and works... it also backs up what i said that only people below a certain height will lose any part of their view, and only a narrow band at that, i can't imagine any of those properties in the foreground have a sea view - i certainly don't down near torgata...

and as for saying it will be a dead town - it's almost impossible to get a seat in a pub these days, it's not like any restaurants and bars are going to be sitting empty :cheers:

Thank you for the welcome.

Ok maybe we still can se the fjord. Points made. But ton't forget the view of city from the fjord and ekeberg etc. ?? It is still a massive wall like project which seems a bit out of place. They are tight together and all similar height on a straight line. Not a fan of big walls. But again i might be wrong and maybe I'll change my mind and think it's awesome once the 400m+ wall is complete. I think it would be better if it was more classic with some talls in there for sq/m compensation.

Don't get me wrong. I like most of the buildings seem cool (although Dnb doesn't make any sense to me with the useless inverted balconies just seem like wasted office space - imho). And yes you are correct that i should not judge the rest of the buildings before the drawings are complete.

Aren't you describing a worst case scenario here? If the area becomes lifeless, it indeed will turn out as failed city development. Those 10.000 sqm of shopping/restaurants are dependant on a high flow of people both to the area but also through it. However, as tens of thousands of people (work leisure, culture, shopping, living etc.) will have their daily business in Bjørvika I'm not to worried.

Again I hope i am wrong. My fear is that the new part of town will be a ghost town after six o clock. Sure it will have some traffic in the day with all those offices etc. but as soon as the evening comes - ...?

and as for saying it will be a dead town - it's almost impossible to get a seat in a pub these days, it's not like any restaurants and bars are going to be sitting empty

Indeed town can get busy on a busy night. Solli Plass gets busy, Grünerløkka gets busy, Youngstorget and Grønland gets busy. Mostly because there is a natural flow of people there. Bjørvika will allways be at the dead end of the city center. But if we connect it as much as we can (much more than the proposed plans) to Grønland and cover those tracks with everything (R+C), the separation will not seem that great and the new bydel will not be so isolated and more life it will have.

Hopefully the thousand living there will keep it busy and I´m sure i'll give :cheers: a go when this place starts to look like something. Please don't make this into tjuvholmen east.

Fix Oslo S and cover those tracks!

H

(...)But if we connect it as much as we can (much more than the proposed plans) to Grønland and cover those tracks with everything (R+C), the separation will not seem that great and the new bydel will not be so isolated and more life it will have.

Hopefully the thousand living there will keep it busy and I´m sure i'll give :cheers: a go when this place starts to look like something. Please don't make this into tjuvholmen east.

Fix Oslo S and cover those tracks!

H

Agreed!:)

I dont think Bjørvika is that Isolated. Remember, they are moving the tram to DEG, opera, Munch, library. + 10.000 living there, 20.000 workers. Opera alone had 700.000 visitors/roof-walkers last year. Still, I wouldt have placed all cultural buidlings so close to each other. Munch museum f.exa, I probably would have placed it at Sørenga instead to guarantee the area a bit more life and not a new half urban pilestredet park.

I agree about the tracks, and thats why they are making plans this days. Wont happend in many years, but atleast they are making plans!

I dont think Bjørvika is that Isolated. Remember, they are moving the tram to DEG, opera, Munch, library. + 10.000 living there, 20.000 workers...

I believe the 10,000 + 20K workers will still be isolated to a somewhat degree, with the hills directly to the east and the massive train system to the north. I consider the opera and the library to be more downtown/ Oslo S than Barcode land. DEG will be good artery to the area, but will it be more of a bypass than anything else..?

I agree about the tracks, and thats why they are making plans this days. Wont happend in many years, but atleast they are making plans!

Good! I have seen some drawings but no serious plans.. Please correct me if i am wrong:)

(If you don't believe check Klp tread, i've been all around the city talking photos of it from where it can be seen),

I have indeed enjoyed your many photos.

Indeed town can get busy on a busy night. Solli Plass gets busy, Grünerløkka gets busy, Youngstorget and Grønland gets busy. Mostly because there is a natural flow of people there. Bjørvika will allways be at the dead end of the city center. But if we connect it as much as we can (much more than the proposed plans) to Grønland and cover those tracks with everything (R+C), the separation will not seem that great and the new bydel will not be so isolated and more life it will have.

Hopefully the thousand living there will keep it busy and I´m sure i'll give :cheers: a go when this place starts to look like something. Please don't make this into tjuvholmen east.

Fix Oslo S and cover those tracks!

H

:) that's the spirit - yes, an awful lot depends on what they do with the tracks, but hopefully we'll have our lovely new bridge soon - you have to remeber that palces in oslo are very easy to get to: people from ekeberg go out in majorstuen and vice versa.

at the moment if you don't like centrum or grønland - they don't cater for all tastes - this will be a welcome alternative without having to go north... hopefully it won't be just offices and houses.

this is why the 'village' plane for the oslo s tracks needs to be approved, to bring gamlebyen and grønland into the city, and boost the area around storgata to møllergata...

Serious plans? Not at all, but when there will be, you will miss the barcode gentle shade, as this is what one can expect:

http://i699.photobucket.com/albums/vv353/Ingenioren2/Sporoslo.jpg

Or they might run with the village option - wich is even better imo. if done well :)

who the fuck thought that was a good idea? i have nothing against MORE skyscrapers, but why go through eleborate designs only to cover them up with yet another row?

Relax, it's an old model... :D I don't mind covering them barcodes up tough, they aren't tall enough!

Covering them up? Is it so important to see the barcode from the north now all of a sudden?

As a more radical scheme known as Vev or more popular "The Danish village", that was very popular amoung the public at the Charette (http://web102881.pbe.oslo.kommune.no/saksinnsyn/casedet.asp?mode=all&caseno=200813447), including myself:

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll218/Ingenioren/vev.jpg

Ok maybe we still can se the fjord. Points made. But ton't forget the view of city from the fjord and ekeberg etc. ??

I think seeing tall buildings absolutely is a good view of the city.


Fix Oslo S and cover those tracks!

Totally agree with that. I like the VEV concept - a small-scaled and narrow area surrounded by highrises.

That would be awesome! imagine all those small narrow streets... I doubt there will be anything like that... Oslo kommune seems to avoid to construct more streets than they have to. Many streets= more expenses.

Don't think it's supposed to be streets like streets with cars. More like pedestrian areas and passages.

Oslo kommune seems to avoid to construct more streets than they have to. Many streets= more expenses.

Those streets would naturally have to be built by the developpers, aswell as kindergardens etc. And yeah, no cars!

Off cource:lol: But, also pedestrian areas needs conservation.

As a more radical scheme known as Vev or more popular "The Danish village", that was very popular amoung the public at the Charette (http://web102881.pbe.oslo.kommune.no/saksinnsyn/casedet.asp?mode=all&caseno=200813447), including myself:


oh yes! that's the way to go--- it could even support having tall buildings all the way around it, a la central park...

VEV might be pretty and cute, but it's a completely unrealistic dream. The only way to cover the expense of covering the tracks is to make the area dense. That wouldn't be a bad thing either, it gives plenty of opportunity to complement the skyline.

The last thing this city need is yet more wasted low density land downtown.

VEV might be pretty and cute, but it's a completely unrealistic dream. The only way to cover the expense of covering the tracks is to make the area dense. That wouldn't be a bad thing either, it gives plenty of opportunity to complement the skyline.

The last thing this city need is yet more wasted low density land downtown.

Agree. My guess is that the area will be filled with boxes like Skattetaten, Atrium etc.. I only hope they will approve 5-10 highrises also :)

VEV might be pretty and cute, but it's a completely unrealistic dream. The only way to cover the expense of covering the tracks is to make the area dense. That wouldn't be a bad thing either, it gives plenty of opportunity to complement the skyline.

The last thing this city need is yet more wasted low density land downtown.

from an economic POV that does make sense, but from the POV of actually living and working amongst it, if the area becomes too built up it could easily become oversaturated or, conversely, over populated with commercial developments...

the village idea surely wouldn't eleminate some taller structures - i'd rather have mainly low density buildings with 3 or 4 really special very high density units, than a sprawl of 5/6 floor developments, like so much of oslo centrum...

tricky one...

5-6 floors in this form would be kind of cozy, but if I remember correctly, they made the plan for only 3-4 floors, and then we're really talking about wasting space. Would be another haven for the rich.

5-6 floors in this form would be kind of cozy, but if I remember correctly, they made the plan for only 3-4 floors, and then we're really talking about wasting space. Would be another haven for the rich.

really? i'm sure if it was planned well there would be enough room for smaller, low cost appartments....

ah, but then it's all about economics, isn't it?

Is VEV a final proposal for this area?

^^ no no, just a futuristic vision. It will probably not end up like that at all.

from an economic POV that does make sense, but from the POV of actually living and working amongst it, if the area becomes too built up it could easily become oversaturated or, conversely, over populated with commercial developments...

the village idea surely wouldn't eleminate some taller structures - i'd rather have mainly low density buildings with 3 or 4 really special very high density units, than a sprawl of 5/6 floor developments, like so much of oslo centrum...

tricky one...
Actually I would argue the economy and "living and working" share interests here. On individual plot developments the developer just wants to cram as much as possible in on his little plot and let the "coziness" be taken care of by someone else yielding space elsewere. But here you're building a whole new part of town. You can't rely too much on the area down by the sea, and you can't rely on the area on the other side either. Too far to be "immediate souruondings". So you have an interest in creating an urban space where people DO want to live and work - else nobody will buy what you're selling. That isn't impossible at all, even with high density - I've seen many examples around the world of very high density urban environments holding all of the qualities I would look for - but we need to give planners the freedom to do it. That means using all three dimentions (at least where I've seen it) and abandon the dogmatic adherence to height limits. It means allowing shops and offices and appartements to form themselves as they want. It means letting creativity and innovation run its course. It means guiding not restricting and it means politicians admitting they do not posess some mystical special insight

So it won't happen in Oslo.

^^Aha, but you're now almost closing in on my favorite aspect of the new Oslo kommunedelplan for bevaring og byutvikling, that they will remove all regualtions in the inner city. They actually come close to admitting that the inner city should not have plans saying "this house is for offices" and "this house is for hotell", only that "this house is this size, fill it with what becomes you". That's the way you get a flexible city:)

^^Aha, but you're now almost closing in on my favorite aspect of the new Oslo kommunedelplan for bevaring og byutvikling, that they will remove all regualtions in the inner city. They actually come close to admitting that the inner city should not have plans saying "this house is for offices" and "this house is for hotell", only that "this house is this size, fill it with what becomes you". That's the way you get a flexible city:)

fingers crossed, then?

I like it. Maybe something inbetween would be nice? It really makes the whole come together . Would it be to big of a job to make the tracks underground? It would be nice to see Jernbaneverket get the goahead to really clean up and make all the eastern train corridors more effective (plus new east west tunnels of course!). I do not understand why they haven't made a tunnel under Schweigaardsgate area yet, make way for some nice development and feel to that area. Relocate some depots.. And start using Østbanehallen as a station again! (My big wish)

fingers crossed, then?

Well, the plan surely had it's downs too, and will make it EVEN WORSE to increase explotion of plots in Oslo inside Ring 2. So no, as usual there is little to be happy about in plans made by PBE.

God, he is actually paid for this! By us tax payers!!!

Prøver å stoppe høyhus i Bjørvika

Den nye riksantikvar Jørn Holme oppfordrer stat og kommune til å ta en tenkepause i Bjørvika-utbyggingen. Oslos middelalderby og andre historiske steder vil bli sperret inne bak en opptil 11 etasjer høy bygningsmur, påpeker han.

http://media.aftenposten.no/archive/01151/_G-Tittel-23112009_1151160x.jpg


AVULF ANDENÆS

Riksantikvar Holme setter frem sine utfordringer i tur og orden:

■Jeg ber Oslo kommune og de statlige eiendomsaktører om å tenke seg om en gang til. Hvis ikke, så tror jeg ettertidens dom vil bli hard».

■Kunne vi sammen finne en grønn løsning som beholdt middelalderbyens kontakt med vannflaten og forbindelsen til Christian IVs by med Akershus slott?

■Kunne de 70000 kvadratmeter bygningsmasse som vil stenge middelalderbyen inne heller bygges et annet sted?

■Hvis Munch-museet skal bygges i 14 etasjer i samsvar med vinnerutkastet fra spanske Lambda, så må det ny reguleringsplan til. Oslo kommune bestemte å flytte Munch-museet til Bjørvika på en utstikker ved Paulsenkaia ved siden av Operaen etter at den tidligere reguleringsplanen var endelig stadfestet.

■Riksantikvaren mener ikke noe om arkitekturen i seg selv, men bygget blir en mastodontisk sperre mellom middelalderbyen og Christian IVs by. Hvis ikke museet trekkes lenger tilbake, da varsler jeg allerede nå en ny innsigelse.


«Min aller største sak».

Med adresse til utbyggere, og samtidig til byens innbyggere, beskrev Holme sine siktemål i et foredrag i Polyteknisk forening i går kveld.

–Noen større sak enn dette tror jeg ikke jeg kommer til å stå overfor i de seks årene jeg har foran meg i denne stillingen, sier han til Aftenposten. –Dette er den største byutviklingssak i Norges historie siden Christian IV flyttet Oslo på 1600-tallet.

Før han holdt foredraget møtte han Aftenposten blant middelalderbyens ruiner i Gamlebyen.


Her skjedde det!

–Her står vi på et av de viktigste åsteder i Norges historie, sier Holme, og peker ut i det dunkle novemberlandskapet. –Akkurat her gjorde kong Håkon V Magnusson Oslo til Norges hovedstad sist på 1200-tallet. Her er levningene av kongsgården, med Mariakirken ved siden av, som kongen bygde større. Bakover lå Clemenskirken, Hallvardkatedralen og Bispegården.

Vi ser mot vannspeilet og fjorden over til Hovedøya der klosteret lå, og til Akershus festning, bygd av samme kong Håkon på samme tid.

–Nettopp dette utsynet er det de vil sperre ute med den opptil 11 etasjes bygningsmuren. Disse nøkkelpunkter i byens ansikt skulle selvsagt komme hverandre i møte.

Et par siktlinjer blir tilbake som sprekker mellom bygningsmassene.

Av nær en million påtenkte kvadratmeter utleieareal i Bjørvika vil bygningsveggen mot sjøen foran vannspeilet romme 70000 kvadratmeter. Det burde gå an å flytte på, mener Holme.


Bare i Norge.

–Jeg nekter å tro at slike planer kunne gå gjennom i noen annen europeisk hovedstad. Min forgjenger Nils Marstein var nærmest den eneste som protesterte. Han ble overprøvd, av daværende miljøvernminister. Vi har måttet respektere dette som en kjensgjerning. Men samtidig er det vår oppgave å ta vare på den historiske dimensjon, også i vår hovedstad.

–Jeg tror planene kunne gå gjennom fordi de fleste opplevde dagens Bjørvika som stygt, rotete og utilgjengelig, stygt nok til at nærmest en hvilken som helst ny utbygging syntes å ville være til det bedre. Mange lot seg blende av de nye fantastiske trafikkløsningene med tunnel under fjorden. Det ble oversett at de som skulle være med på å betale, skal ha pengene sine igjen. Besluttende myndigheter har stått overfor et investeringspress uten like. Staten eier grunnen, gjennom sine eiendomsselskaper og Havnevesenets selskap Hav Eiendom. Normalt burde statlig eierskap gjøre vern enklere!


Tiden renner ut.

–Har Riksantikvaren på dette sene tidspunkt mulighet til å innvirke på prosessen, spør vi.

–De store maktmidler har ikke vi lenger. Vi skal selvfølgelig se hva vi kan gjøre med detaljreguleringen. Sannsynlig er det svært begrenset.

Men fortsatt er det bebyggelsesplaner og spørsmål om endret regulering der siste ord ikke er sagt. Jeg tror mange ikke er klar over hvor store virkningene kommer til å bli.

Det viktigste nå er at folk får se hva som faktisk er i vente. Vi har laget en liten animasjonsfilm for å vise det. Knapp og instruktiv, som forteller det meste på et minutt.

Den filmsnutten håper Holme flest mulig vil se.

source: http://www.aftenposten.no/kul_und/article3388339.ece

Presumably he is mostly talking about Sørenga here and Munch, because he is worried about the mediavel ruins being blocked out from the bay. Actually, I would also prefer not to clutter the bay up too much and rather than build on it, get rid of sørengautstikkeren alltogether. However, I dont think this is realistic as it makes no economic sense whatsoever.
It doesnt seem that barcode has any bearing on what he is talking about, though I have a sneaky feeling that he thinks it does.
edit: saw the video now, so I was right:)

I liked the views in the video. I rather prefer a lively developed area to block the mediavel ruins, than container harbours or dead unbuilt areas. If it's so impotant to see the fjord, he can just move his ass down to the fjord or to Ekebergåsen. Anyway, there are sight lines from the medieval park.

It is also a graphic there:
http://media.aftenposten.no/archive/01151/_F-Br_dtekst-bj_rv_1151177a.jpg

The thing to fear is that Holme is giving all sorts of NIMBY's fuel to their quest to put all kinds of hurdles in the way of this project. He's a good ally to have. The way he expresses himself is really annoying too, it doesn't create much space for constructive dialogue.

And Holme should acknowledge the fact that this project is the reason why all those ancient boat wrecks were found in Bjørvika in the first place. As experts has said, one of the most important finds ever in Oslo's history.

The thing to fear is that Holme is giving all sorts of NIMBY's fuel to their quest to put all kinds of hurdles in the way of this project. He's a good ally to have. The way he expresses himself is really annoying too, it doesn't create much space for constructive dialogue.

And Holme should acknowledge the fact that this project is the reason why all those ancient boat wrecks were found in Bjørvika in the first place. As experts has said, one of the most important finds ever in Oslo's history.


Riksantikvaren should not have a saying regarding urban spaces. He should stick to the buildings. :bash:

Bare i Norge.

–Jeg nekter å tro at slike planer kunne gå gjennom i noen annen europeisk hovedstad. Min forgjenger Nils Marstein var nærmest den eneste som protesterte. Han ble overprøvd, av daværende miljøvernminister. Vi har måttet respektere dette som en kjensgjerning. Men samtidig er det vår oppgave å ta vare på den historiske dimensjon, også i vår hovedstad.

–Jeg tror planene kunne gå gjennom fordi de fleste opplevde dagens Bjørvika som stygt, rotete og utilgjengelig, stygt nok til at nærmest en hvilken som helst ny utbygging syntes å ville være til det bedre. Mange lot seg blende av de nye fantastiske trafikkløsningene med tunnel under fjorden. Det ble oversett at de som skulle være med på å betale, skal ha pengene sine igjen. Besluttende myndigheter har stått overfor et investeringspress uten like. Staten eier grunnen, gjennom sine eiendomsselskaper og Havnevesenets selskap Hav Eiendom. Normalt burde statlig eierskap gjøre vern enklere!


Is he retarded? It's a surprise to him that "those who footed the bill wants their money back"? Is that something bad? Is he saying what is there now actually is better than what will be? Or maybe he just doesn't understand the concept of "limited funding"?

:crazy:*10^10000000

Holme should look to the success of Central Park in NY. Framing the park with buildings will make it more cozy and lively - and not the barren wasteland feeling that it has today.

If he wants 70 000 square meters moved - he should front a campaign to make Fjordporten 200 meters tall. ;)

He can't do anything about it, it says so in the article. The munch museum on the other hand, that will be a new battle...

http://plusmood.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/western-birds-eye-view-of-site-model.jpg

Here's what the Byantikvar thinks:
http://web102881.pbe.oslo.kommune.no/saksinnsyn/showfile.asp?fileid=2392576

And PBE preliminary toughts:
http://web102881.pbe.oslo.kommune.no/saksinnsyn/showfile.asp?fileid=2421472

Stumbled over this regarding the last barcode blocks aswell as Mad-bygget:
http://web102881.pbe.oslo.kommune.no/saksinnsyn/showfile.asp?fileid=2420254
Appearantly B13 has been won by Lund Hagem - it will be devided into 6 plots, where 2 will be "open", it tallest building will reach 21 floors, and the lowest will be some sort of urban rowhouses (!?)



Then i find a rendering of the eastern building in B13. Its made by Lund Hagem and is dated 2009. This is showing a very different western building, so i guess they never came up with anything?
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y136/cityw/Architecture/B13ByggC_sysmall.jpg

I guess this is the one rendering we have? Kjetilab: Are those that are listed "Untatt publisering" available at Pbe offices?

I haven't been to PBE in a long time, but I guess they should be avaliable down there.

I think it would be ridiculous to move 70000sq m of development to a less urban location just so that a few people can stand on a hill and look out to the sea.

I'm all for the preservation of historic envoronments but 'aa putte kjepper i hjulene' for such a big project just to preserve a view seems way too over the top to me. I don't think anyone save a few very interested historians would be sad to see this view disappear.

As for the park itself, it will be a beautiful urban park ringed in by apartment buildings. If you find yourself in Middelalderparken and feel that you must see the sea, it won't be that hard to just walk 50 metres.

Holme debated against city planner Ellen De Vibe about this on NRK's Dagsnytt18 yesterday. Unfortunatly I only got to see the last minutes of the discussion, but it seems that this is a lost case for Holme, his views are simply coming too late. And as I understood De Vibe, projects like this is only the beginning for Oslo :)

Holme will need to swallow hard, repeatedly!

He should be happy, there are both Loalmenningen and Bispekilen made to give this park a connection towards the ocean aswell as views to Akershus...

Holme debated against city planner Ellen De Vibe about this on NRK's Dagsnytt18 yesterday. Unfortunatly I only got to see the last minutes of the discussion, but it seems that this is a lost case for Holme, his views are simply coming too late. And as I understood De Vibe, projects like this is only the beginning for Oslo :)

Holme will need to swallow hard, repeatedly!

You can watch the whole thing here; http://www1.nrk.no/nett-tv/indeks/191924.

I'm glad De Vibe was very clear about the fact that the current plans will be realized.

Animated walk trough Middelalderparken after Bjørvika is built:
http://www.aftenposten.no/webtv/?id=16010

Some of the reactions our new Riksantikvar has had:
http://www.aftenposten.no/kul_und/article3390237.ece

Animated walk trough Middelalderparken after Bjørvika is built:
http://www.aftenposten.no/webtv/?id=16010

Some of the reactions our new Riksantikvar has had:
http://www.aftenposten.no/kul_und/article3390237.ece

well, they have certainly generated some very heavy and bulky buidings to represent the development, hmmm....

but, what's with the cable cars, where did they come from?

^^Christian Ringnes?

The cable car rocks, i sure hope he doesn't back out :)

Found some renders from the Snøhetta Zero-Emissions project:

http://i584.photobucket.com/albums/ss282/Ingenioren3/Snofilipstad.jpg

^^ Where did you find those? The new renders look pretty different. Looks like they went away from the polished, glossy exterior. It still looks very cool, but not as radical, maybe? Hm, but when I look at those two renders that we have seen before - they doesn't look consistent. One of them has the bridge from the new renders and no hole, while the other one doesn't have the bridge but the hole at the top.

Anyways, cool to see some new renders. I really like this project - it brings a new landmark to Oslo, and it's a nice location for a hotel. Still wondering what they will do with the ferry terminal, though.

Found some renders from the Snøhetta Zero-Emissions project:

http://i584.photobucket.com/albums/ss282/Ingenioren3/Snofilipstad.jpg

The version to the upper right is the original, while the other three is a bit different, its better than the original design!

I agree, they look better now. They are all taken from mir.no

It will take a while before we learn something more, atm. the city has started the process for a regulationplan for Filipstad:
http://web102881.pbe.oslo.kommune.no/saksinnsyn/casedet.asp?mode=all&caseno=200906549

Here are many if's, it's both unclear what will happend to the railyard and E18 aswell as Ring 1...

It looks good now. I just don't see the point with that huge park. The city is full of parks allready. A small one could be nice, as in Tjuvholmen. Here they have the potential for more sea-close appartments and urban city development. But of course, open space will bring the landmark more in focus.

The Snøhetta project looks cool and futuristic, like straight out of a sci-fi cover!

I always imagined Fillipstad would be perfect for some nice classical Oslo "kvadratur". It is perfect. The area is as big as major parts of sentrum. It's huge! Imagine even a T-stop here going to from National to Skøyen and beyond! Business developments around with highrises next to Tjuvholmen. Sizable park of course. One can dream...

In any occasion, I am very exited about Fillipstad. I can't wait 'til they get started! Does anyone know when we can hope to see a start?

I wouldt be surprised if Buchardt gets realised his dream with a big hotel and park capturing 50% of the areal. But i really hope to something more dense and aerial effetive stuff. Why cant he realise his 200 metres tall skyscraper instead and a small park :bash: This is the best location in Oslo when Bjørvika is finished and shoul be used properly, not by a man with own interests.

I wouldt be surprised if Buchardt gets realised his dream with a big hotel and park capturing 50% of the areal. But i really hope to something more dense and aerial effetive stuff. Why cant he realise his 200 metres tall skyscraper instead and a small park :bash: This is the best location in Oslo when Bjørvika is finished and shoul be used properly, not by a man with own interests.

Sorry, I didn't understand your last post. Do you think Buchardt is the one fighting for a big park here?

A big park with is parts of his plans, mao he is "fighting" for it. I know there will be a park here anyway, but a park stretch along the waterfront is much better.

A big park with is parts of his plans, mao he is "fighting" for it. I know there will be a park here anyway, but a park stretch along the waterfront is much better.

Nah, Buchardt is a businessman. The hotel is his plan, the rest is just illustration from the architects to make the decision-makers happy ;)

^^I agree with muster. Developers operating in a NIMBY envirionment need to be good poker players: know when to hold'em, know when to fold'em, and know when not to raise too much.

The cable car rocks, i sure hope he doesn't back out :)


"Jeg tror at dette naturområdet ikke bare blir besøkt av lokale beboere, men at det også blir et viktig mål for turister. Med gondolbane blir tilgangen til området enkel, sier Christian Ringnes."

http://www.aftenposten.no/kul_und/article3403150.ece

Looks like it's still on. Ringnes has certainly done a lot of great things for Oslo in the last years.

Does any of you understand what this fuzz is about (http://www.nrk.no/nyheter/kultur/1.6914891). What exactly will be lost here???

^^ oh no not again... :ohno:

Jesus Titty Fucking Christ. What is wrong with those clowns?!? They had bloody well to pay compensation, and that money will come straight out of my taxes. I dare take the opinion that the money can be better spent than to satisfy Riksantikvarens completely outrageous and out-of-line requests.

The new Riksantivar is the biggest nimby I've heard of. He will probably try to stop every cool project in Oslo in the future. :wallbash:

did they find this man under a bush or something?! he is la-la to consider such action as it will cost olso a hell of a lot more if they don't build it.

It's not all grim!

In the paper edition of VG today, on page 2 as one of the headers/comments and under the title "Høydeskrekk", Børre Haugstad is pretty relentless in his attack on Holme and likeminded people, who according to him are more focused on keeping the past than developing Oslo. He mentions the underlaying fear that our capital may actually become a city of something resembling European measures. And maybe the most important dilemma - building high and in the city center, or start ruining Øst-/Nordmarka and Oslo's green surroundings. In the environmental age! As a personal question, why are Holme and co never confronted with this?

All this just when you thought that no journalists dared say something positive about Bjørvika and all the new projects in Oslo. Are there more of them? Come forward!

Man, this guy pisses me off. If he gets gets it like he wants it looks like the infrastructure at Bjørvika will suffer too. 220 million NOK will be lost from the budget of the promenade, meeting places, streets etc. I would guess important (but expendable) stuff like landscaping, lighting etc. will go first. Holme refuses to address any of the important arguments against his ideas in an arrogant (or ignorant) way.

http://www.aftenposten.no/kul_und/article3444179.ece

I did also read his opinion on the viking ship/cultural historic museum debate - his idea was to build it under ground at Bygdø. Perfect for the NIMBY´s - build all the new stuff under ground and they can walk around in their perfect untouched historical city. :nuts:

Is it so important to have a view from middelalderparken? This area is perfect for dense building. Its vital for the whole bjørvika project!

I must say - i hope we keep the viking museum as it is. It is a beautiful place with an honorable character to it.

Happy 2010 - may it be a constructive one :)

See what Røsland has to say about Holmes provocations:

http://www.aftenposten.no/meninger/kronikker/article3449019.ece

He seems to share our opinions on the matter:D

Great stuff by Røsland, but it didn't take long before Holme responded - this time armed with a history lesson by Magnus Rindal;

http://www.aftenposten.no/meninger/article3452304.ece

I think this looks goood :)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/riksantikvaren/

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2618/4191790759_88c0eae5c8_b.jpg
Taken from Vianovas Bjørvika modell, perspectives chosen by Holme... :D

IT's the city by the sea we've always dreamt of in this area. Riksantikvaren should praise it, since it's much closer to how the area was in the beginning of last century, before the motorway came...

I think this looks goood :)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/riksantikvaren/

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2618/4191790759_88c0eae5c8_b.jpg
Taken from Vianovas Bjørvika modell, perspectives chosen by Holme... :D


Hmm...I dont know what to say...nothing new, looks boring to me:-((

^^Yes, all of the building is new ones :) Looks good too.

Imagine Krystallklar and Fjordporten into this as well :cheers:

So where exactly is the highrise wall Holme is so afraid of? I must admit I have problems seeing it..:nuts:

The tunnel chimneys annoy me still.. Would it not be possible to incorporate the chimneys in some tall buildings? Has this been considered? They are truly an eyesore.

The tunnel chimneys annoy me still.. Would it not be possible to incorporate the chimneys in some tall buildings? Has this been considered? They are truly an eyesore.

Couldn't agree more. If they can't incorporate them in buildings, they should at least go for the winning art proposal.

Where is Riksantikvaren when you need him??? :ohno:

The tunnel chimneys annoy me still.. Would it not be possible to incorporate the chimneys in some tall buildings? Has this been considered? They are truly an eyesore.

Maybe they could paint a giant piece of artwork on them?

So where exactly is the highrise wall Holme is so afraid of? I must admit I have problems seeing it..:nuts:

Good question. You can´t build much lower, so it's a stretch calling them highrises. Anyway; it looks good, but if riksantikvaren wants them to build some tall, sleek towers there instead, to make it possible to see more of the fjord from Middelalderparken, I will support him. ;)

Maybe they could paint a giant piece of artwork on them?

I'm not sure if you're aware, but they did plan (http://www.aftenposten.no/kul_und/article2280945.ece) to put an artwork on the facade of the towers. Unfortunately, there was an issue of money (http://www.vg.no/rampelys/artikkel.php?artid=533524). Not the first time a creative competition is not respected in Oslo.

While an artwork like that, with lighting and all, would be nice, I'm sure it would be quite cheaper to bring in some top notch graffiti artist (we should try to lure Banksy to do it ;)).

Fjern en bit av muren (http://www.aftenposten.no/meninger/kronikker/article3463934.ece) Ok, I get their point, they want to see Akerhusfestning from Middelalderparken, but they are not any better than "gjerrige utbyggere" if they only manage to see it from one point of view. A empty space there will totally kill the connection to Sør-Enga. I actullay thought Riksantikvaren could see thing from different perspectives. Well, at least their unstood that the only way to make it like they want is to keep the area more or less like it is/unused.

Hmm...I dont know what to say...nothing new, looks boring to me:-((

I am not sure if all the buildings in the foreground look like this (or if it's just for illustrational purposes), but they are far to uniform and regular here IMO.

So where exactly is the highrise wall Holme is so afraid of? I must admit I have problems seeing it..:nuts:
The green one is the Munch-Stenersen museum, which Holme contested for its height, correct?

I am not sure if all the buildings in the foreground look like this (or if it's just for illustrational purposes), but they are far to uniform and regular here IMO.

Well, they are just "placeholders". Only there to illustrate volumes. None of the buildings coming there will look even remotely like the ones in the renders. Just volume studies. We won't see any actual designs until they start selling the buildings.

The green one is the Munch-Stenersen museum, which Holme contested for its height, correct?

Yes it is. But he also complained that there will not be enough view from Midelalderparken to the Museum, and named the buildings between Middelalderparken and the sea a highrise wall. He seems to complain about everything down there. And, as very many seems to forget, it's way too late. These complaints should have come many years ago:bash:

Nå lytter Oslo til Riksantikvaren
Vil imøtekomme krav i Bjørvika.

Ifølge NTB vil Oslo kommune imøtekomme Riksantikvarens ønske om en bredere sikt mellom parken og sjøen ved byggingen av det nye Munch-museet i Bjørvika.

More:
http://www.dagbladet.no/2010/01/14/kultur/bjorvika/munch/9926102/

:ohno:

^^ Only in Norway! Next project: Make it possible to see Slottsparken from Vigelandsparken for any costs.

I can't see Holmenkollen. Remove my neighbors, please!!!

This discussion is about on the same level as the current Tors Torn discussion going on in Stockholm. All people seem to care about is shallow aesthetic considerations while the actual important stuff is conveniently overlooked.

I don't blame them though. I think the problem is that people simply don't know enough about urbanism. They see the plans and think "Oh, that's ugly!" and then leave it at that because they don't have anything more to say. It's a shame that Holme fires up under this to push through his own views.

If only the general population was more educated about city planning then we wouldn't have cases like this come up. We should have a group in Norway like the one in Dennmark, Copenhagen X, that works to inform people about general urban planning problems and ideas. They do free/cheap talks, lectures and citywalks for anyone that's interested.

Hopefully this is the last case we'll see like this. It's really shocking that the Kommune is actually giving in so late in the planning process and for such ridiculous reasons.

Fjern en bit av muren (http://www.aftenposten.no/meninger/kronikker/article3463934.ece) Ok, I get their point, they want to see Akerhusfestning from Middelalderparken, but they are not any better than "gjerrige utbyggere" if they only manage to see it from one point of view. A empty space there will totally kill the connection to Sør-Enga. I actullay thought Riksantikvaren could see thing from different perspectives. Well, at least their unstood that the only way to make it like they want is to keep the area more or less like it is/unused.

to be honest, it does look a bit overwhelming in some of these images, and we only need a few of the designs of the buildings to be mediocre and it could end up a mess.

that said, removing a big chunk in the middle would be awful... so, i reckon the solution is to build a big building in the middle, but in a 'U' shape, the same as fjørdporten... thus providing financially viable density, a view from the park and fluidity along Sørenga, as well as providing some symmetry with the two 'U's....


job done :D

Appears all clearance has been given to "She lies", so i expect it to be out and floating as soon as the weather get's warmer.

http://i699.photobucket.com/albums/vv353/Ingenioren2/DSC_1032.jpg

http://i699.photobucket.com/albums/vv353/Ingenioren2/DSC_1033-1.jpg

Edit: Forgot we have a Sørenga tread.

It was supposed to come this last autumn. I hope it will look cool, at least better than the ST.Olavs project..

What St.Olavs project might this be? A simular project in Trondheim?

The lightfountain at St. Olavs plass I guess ;)

Aha, i think it turned out quite good :)

Aha, i think it turned out quite good :)

Agreed. Gave the square the identity it needed!:yes:

Bru ohoi!

http://www.vegvesen.no/binary?id=234472

35 meter av den nye jernbanebrua over Oslo sentralstasjon kom sjøveien fra Nederland til Bjørvika natt til tirsdag. [09.02.2010]

Dette er lillebror på bare 330 tonn. Neste ankomst om ca to uker blir spektakulær. Da kommer konstruksjonen som rager 30 meter i været, er dobbelt så lang og veier 635 tonn. Bredden er 20 meter med kjørebane og gang/sykkelbane på hver side av fagverket.

Natt til fredag stenges E18 noen timer. Da skal konstruksjonen løftes fra lekteren og rulles på et 24- akslet kjøretøy over E18 og fram til anleggsområdet.

Lanseringen over sporene vil foregå i påsken, pinsen og 1.maihelga. Dette for å få gjort mest mulig med minst mulig ulempe for jernbanetrafikken.

Brua får en total lengde på 306 meter, hvorav ståldelen over sporområdet er 160 meter. Det som gjør brua spektakulær, er ståldelen (en såkalt fagverkskonstruksjon) som får en økende høyde mot nord opp til 35 meter over bakkenivået. Selve kjørebanen er 7 meter over bakkenivået.


http://www.vegvesen.no/Vegprosjekter/Bjorvika/Nyhetsarkiv/123731.cms

A picture I found, someone has had some fun. From knutepatraden (http://www.panoramio.com/user/3428002?with_photo_id=31794963)

http://i326.photobucket.com/albums/k439/marshol/Bjrvika58.jpg?t=1265733722

http://www.vegvesen.no/Vegprosjekter/Bjorvika/Nyhetsarkiv/123731.cms

http://i326.photobucket.com/albums/k439/marshol/now.jpg?t=1265803249

A picture I found, someone has had some fun. From knutepatraden (http://www.panoramio.com/user/3428002?with_photo_id=31794963)

RIDICOLOUS PHOTOSHOP HERE


I like skyscrapers too, but even for me that is ridicolous:P

Those must be worlds tallest barracks :)

Awesome renderings found of Stasjonsbrua:

http://web102881.pbe.oslo.kommune.no/saksinnsyn/showfile.asp?fileid=2501956
http://web102881.pbe.oslo.kommune.no/saksinnsyn/showfile.asp?fileid=2501957

Following this note on access to tracks:
http://web102881.pbe.oslo.kommune.no/saksinnsyn/showfile.asp?fileid=2501952

Elevators? Horrible idea on a train station in my opinion! :ohno:

^^Interesting preliminary design for a solution for the area between KLP og Isfjellet. Good to see urbanity, but let's hope for something a bit more esthetic!:P

Awesome renderings found of Stasjonsbrua:

http://web102881.pbe.oslo.kommune.no/saksinnsyn/showfile.asp?fileid=2501956
http://web102881.pbe.oslo.kommune.no/saksinnsyn/showfile.asp?fileid=2501957

Following this note on access to tracks:
http://web102881.pbe.oslo.kommune.no/saksinnsyn/showfile.asp?fileid=2501952

Elevators? Horrible idea on a train station in my opinion! :ohno:


does this mean they're going to pull down the platform roofs?


...the stairs/lifts on the platforms are consistent with the set up at asker, seems ok there?

http://i326.photobucket.com/albums/k439/marshol/now.jpg?t=1265803249

itll be fun to see all this when im going to oslo tomorrow :) i guess ill be able to fit in some sighseeing before the rammstein concert!!

the rammstein concert!!

I was supposed to go there too, but I can't.

Aren't they playing in Bergen this year as well? :righton:

I was supposed to go there too, but I can't.

Aren't they playing in Bergen this year as well? :righton:

I couldn't get tickets for the Oslo concert, so I'm going to Bergen in June (and there were still tickets left last time I checked)

I couldn't get tickets for the Oslo concert, so I'm going to Bergen in June (and there were still tickets left last time I checked)
:) :righton:
Ramstein is also coming to Vilnius on 5th of March..!!
Ticket price ~200-250 Lt (it's about 58-72 Euro). I think it can be even the same price to visit Lithuania and to get into the concert (when compairing together all other costs - tickets, food, drinks, hotels and so on..). I don't think it would be more expensive.. ;)
Also there will be 2 concerts of Metalica on April 21st-22nd :horse: :bow:
Ticket price about 250-350 Lt (72-100 Euro)..!

P.S. sorry for offtopic, but I'm too happy to stay quiet!!
:nocrook:

does this mean they're going to pull down the platform roofs?


...the stairs/lifts on the platforms are consistent with the set up at asker, seems ok there?

Plattform roofs aren't near this bridge as this is the far east of the plattforms, it will however interfear with the technical culverts entrances tough.

Asker is in a different league when it comes to passenger numbers tough..

the concert was amazing. i definitely cant wait to see them again in Bergen! :)

im still partly deaf.. the barcode project looked great btw!!

Middelalderparken

Reguleringsplan for Museum in Middelalderparken is now being sent to the politicians:
http://www.statsbygg.no/Aktuelt/Nyheter/Bjorvika-Forslag-til-reguleringsplan-oversendt/

In that regard i read trough it, and it mentions some interesting changes in the park:

The old locomotive hall will be turned into some sort of Culturehouse, a "temporary" parkinglot will still be in the park for a long time, and the long low building will be demolished - this is maybe not to long in the future.
http://i699.photobucket.com/albums/vv353/Ingenioren2/Middelaldernu.jpg

http://i699.photobucket.com/albums/vv353/Ingenioren2/Parkeringsplass.jpg
Ugly f*** parkinglot, turn the area into a park right now instead please!

Other interesting features is: Buildings are not to be a continuation of barcode, heights are to go gradually up towards barcode upto cote +51. (Around 48 meters tall. These heights are appearantly approved in Bjørvikas plan, so regardless of the museums location, these heights will stay.) PBE supports Statsbyggs idea to build a new Vikingship-house south of Bispegata. 20 % of groundfloorarea is set to cafés and/or shops.



Sneak peak of "She lies" - it's being built in Horten, and soon enough will be towed to it's location:
http://www.operautsmykking.no/bilder/ill/Horten.20-JH-OK_464.jpg

More photos:
http://www.koro.no/no/prosjekter/prosjekter_i_arbeid/web/statlige_bygg/hun_ligger/bilder/

Official inauguration will be the 11/5-10, by the Queen:
http://www.operautsmykking.no/
Yet the sculpture will probably be towed into place significantly sooner than that :)

Seems to be mainly trailers, using the parkinglot... Maybe a stupid wustion, but what are the using it for, is there still some kind of warehouse?

And are there any new info about Loenga railarea? Will the new Follobanen makes any difference for the development opportunities?

Middelalderparken

Reguleringsplan for Museum in Middelalderparken is now being sent to the politicians:
http://www.statsbygg.no/Aktuelt/Nyheter/Bjorvika-Forslag-til-reguleringsplan-oversendt/


I don't understand why so many value Middelalderparken as much as they do. As a park I think it is very boring, and as a historical ruin of little interest IMO. That sad, the ruins should be saved, but I would like to see it under roof in a large building covering most of the park today. A waving building with glass facade would be great. Something like this..

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3040/2677373619_5831937226.jpg

Edit: When I think of it, this building should be the new "Historisk Museum".

Interview with Paul Lodøen:
http://osu.no/fileadmin/docs/NE0210_side_72_76.pdf

I wish to urge all of you to participate in the process of making a høringsuttalelse for the Oslo S area. The deadline for handing in a statement is in about a weeks time.

Please join the discussion here: http://www.yimby.no/forum/thread.aspx?id=4&page=0&#fp252

The more ideas and suggestions, the better.

for all the fuss about the views from this park being lost, it seems amazing that nearly half the park is a great big tarmac parking lot!

Oslo S area
.....
Please join the discussion here: http://www.yimby.no/forum/thread.aspx?id=4&page=0&#fp252


I have now written what i think. Please don't sit on the fence here, if there is something you want to add :)

The demand for student housing in Bjørvika, just got stronger last Wednesday:

Studentboliger i Bjørvika
17.02.2010

I onsdagens bystyremøte ble Venstres forslag om å bygge studentboliger i Bjørvika vedtatt. - Svært gledelig, sier Venstres gruppeleder Ola Elvestuen.

Han mener det er viktig at ikke alle som skal bo i Bjørvika er i samme aldersgruppe og livssituasjon. På grunn av prisnivå på boligene vil nok mange av de øvrige beboerne være godt voksne.

- Vi ønsker et godt og levende bomiljø i den nye bydelen, og det er all grunn til å tro at studentene vil bidra til dette, sier Elvestuen. - Det er også viktig for Oslo å legge godt til rette for studentene. Vi er Norges viktigste studieby, og det forplikter.

Det var Venstre som fremmet forslaget om utbyggingen av studentboliger, som ble vedtatt i onsdagens bystyremøte. Selve utbyggingen vil skje i regi av Studentsamskipnaden, mens Havnevesenet etter onsdagens bystyrevedtak får ansvar for å stille tomtegrunn til rådighet for utbyggingen.

Looks like HAV eiendom needs to put out some areas for student housing pretty soon...

Someone still has to pay the bill tough, i doubt Samskipnaden is willing to pay marked-price for a building in Bjørvika....

^^SiO builds after what funds they get in the national budget, iirc. I guess the plot they build on will be more or less free or heavily reduced in price, then they build as they get money from the red-green:) Oslo got fundings for 282 appartments this year. If they don't get the plot subsidized, though, a few appartments in Bjørvika may come on expense off many more apprtments elsewhere in the city, which is :ohno:...

^^SiO builds after what funds they get in the national budget, iirc. I guess the plot they build on will be more or less free or heavily reduced in price, then they build as they get money from the red-green:) Oslo got fundings for 282 appartments this year. If they don't get the plot subsidized, though, a few appartments in Bjørvika may come on expense off many more apprtments elsewhere in the city, which is :ohno:...

I have to say, getting a bunch of cheaply built flats reserved for students is a low point in the development of this area. I cannot see how it is good politics to make way for student condos in such a high priced area. The students time for attractive housing will come later in life.

^^What's important is to build enough housing for all the people that wants to live in the innercity. And to do so, some of them necesserily need to be built more affordable than others.

^^What's important is to build enough housing for all the people that wants to live in the innercity. And to do so, some of them necesserily need to be built more affordable than others.

I disagree. In fact I am scared by the frase "built affordable" as it usually means built to low quality and it could possibly affect the surroundings negatively. It might end up as a real eye sore. :ohno:

I'm done being a student myself, but if I were about to start studying in Oslo, I would never expect the government to provide me with premium area condos.

I have to disagree, studenthousing are often nice colours, and a more youthfull feel than more boring conventional appartmentprojects. Hardly agree with Cheap=Boring, that is just developpers fault... Students will bring far more life into this area than conventional appartments would, clearly needed when it will be surrounded by museums and coorporate offices... :nuts:

I have to disagree, studenthousing are often nice colours, and a more youthfull feel than more boring conventional appartmentprojects. Hardly agree with Cheap=Boring, that is just developpers fault... Students will bring far more life into this area than conventional appartments would, clearly needed when it will be surrounded by museums and coorporate offices... :nuts:

I can only hope you are right, but can you give any examples of a student village or low cost area that has the high quality this area should have?

And why are all publicly owned and regulated appartments placed on the east side of the city (http://www.aftenposten.no/nyheter/oslo/article3485209.ece)?

I can only hope you are right, but can you give any examples of a student village or low cost area that has the high quality this area should have?

And why are all publicly owned and regulated appartments placed on the east side of the city (http://www.aftenposten.no/nyheter/oslo/article3485209.ece)?

I agree with you Osloborger. Building student housing on the most expensive properties in the city makes no sense at all. If they want to attract young people and students to the area they should focus on nightlife and culture etc.

Well, I think it's more about ensuring that the fjordcity doesn't become another "vestkanten" between the city and the sea. Just look at Tjuvholmen, it's an enclave for rich people filled with expensive resturants and cafes. If you look at much of the more affordable housing in Oslo being built today, most of it it fairly suburban house in a park stuff. I think it's fantastic that the states wants to create good, urban inner city housing for everyone, not just those with cash.

As for the architecture of the building, how good it will look is just specualtion at this point. And some good examples do exist, just look at the future Berg Studentby in Trondheim.

I think it's fantastic that the states wants to create good, urban inner city housing for everyone, not just those with cash.

Where have you read that? Oslo need a more offensive housing policy for all parts of inner city. With so few apartments built today the trend will continue anyway since the prices are pushed higher...

Well, I think it's more about ensuring that the fjordcity doesn't become another "vestkanten" between the city and the sea. Just look at Tjuvholmen, it's an enclave for rich people filled with expensive resturants and cafes.

I don't see the problem, really..

The idea that everyone should have the possibility to live where they want is almost destroying the Norwegian welfare. Because of oil we don't have to be effective in this country, but at some point we have to stop the madness. Spending public money so the students can have their sleep in Bjørvika is a really bad idea. :ohno:

I don't think it's right to let profits be the sole dictator for what an urban area should include. By that line of reasoning we could also say that no money should be spent on parks or public areas if they don't create some sort of profit for the developers.

It's not that everyone should live where they want, it's about getting more people to live in central Oslo. The way it is now, with the rents rising and more and more housing in Oslo becoming expensive, soon, students and other lower income groups will be forced out to Groruddalen and the southern suburbs. The only way to get more people to live in the city is to actually build more homes in the actual city. The benefits of this are so great (less car use and polution, less migration to far out suburbs, etc) that I think it's perfectly ok to spend a little public money to acheive it.

New bridge part has arrived Bjørvika. This one is huge.

http://i326.photobucket.com/albums/k439/marshol/Untitled.jpg?t=1267287479

Well, I think it's more about ensuring that the fjordcity doesn't become another "vestkanten" between the city and the sea. Just look at Tjuvholmen, it's an enclave for rich people filled with expensive resturants and cafes. If you look at much of the more affordable housing in Oslo being built today, most of it it fairly suburban house in a park stuff. I think it's fantastic that the states wants to create good, urban inner city housing for everyone, not just those with cash.

As for the architecture of the building, how good it will look is just specualtion at this point. And some good examples do exist, just look at the future Berg Studentby in Trondheim.

Can you please explain to me how "vestkanten" is negative? It's interesting to hear you describe Tjuvholmen as an "enclave for rich people". I guess you look at Aker Brygge the same way? In my opinion, Aker Brygge is a huge success. The area is highly popular and is used by all kinds of people. That the apartments are expensive is only a natural consequence of many people wanting to live there.

Using future student villages as an example of how a student village is positive is not very reassuring. I have another example. Anker Studentboliger (http://forum.kvinneguiden.no/index.php?showtopic=453992). Is that what we're getting?

...

It's not that everyone should live where they want, it's about getting more people to live in central Oslo. The way it is now, with the rents rising and more and more housing in Oslo becoming expensive, soon, students and other lower income groups will be forced out to Groruddalen and the southern suburbs. The only way to get more people to live in the city is to actually build more homes in the actual city.

You're not getting more people by reserving apartments for students. You are just changing who gets the apartments. Is Groruddalen not good enough for students?

You're not getting more people by reserving apartments for students. You are just changing who gets the apartments. Is Groruddalen not good enough for students?

But of course you do. Student apartments are a lot smaller than "regular" apartments, so you'll get more people on the same about of sqm.

But of course you do. Student apartments are a lot smaller than "regular" apartments, so you'll get more people on the same about of sqm.

You get two one room flats, housing one person as opposed to one larger two room flat housing two persons (typically). I really don't think there will be any noticable difference.

Either way, Gamle Oslo has enough small and/or public apartments as it is. This part of the city needs more people with regular income.

The suggested number of student apartments (1000) is nearly equal to the number of apartments on Sørengautstikkeren (1200). I think it's way too much.

Can you please explain to me how "vestkanten" is negative? It's interesting to hear you describe Tjuvholmen as an "enclave for rich people". I guess you look at Aker Brygge the same way? In my opinion, Aker Brygge is a huge success. The area is highly popular and is used by all kinds of people. That the apartments are expensive is only a natural consequence of many people wanting to live there.

Using future student villages as an example of how a student village is positive is not very reassuring. I have another example. Anker Studentboliger (http://forum.kvinneguiden.no/index.php?showtopic=453992). Is that what we're getting?

I was talking about Tjuvholmen, not Aker Brygge. At the moment it hosts some of the city's most expensive housing. The resturants and cafes you find there are also some of the most expensive. Aker Brygge on the other hand mainly has office buildings so comparing it to Tjuvholmen isn't exactly correct. It also host a wide range of services in most price ranges, so it can be used by most people.

I'm not saying that there is anything wrong with vestkanten, I'm just saying that if Sørenga turns out like Tjuvholmen then going there will involve spending a lot of money, and thus it will be reserved for those who have a lot of money. The fjord and at least some of the resturants and services placed there should be accessible to everyone.

As for Groruddalen, I have nothing against the place or the people that live there, I'm just saying that it's not very urban. Students generally don't have money for a car, they want to spend time with their friends, so they want to live in a dense area where they can walk and use public transport. With the way the trends are going now, that might soon be impossible. That's all I'm saying.

About the student housing, I thought you were talking about architecture. As for student housing that works, I hear Bjølsen Studentby is pretty good.

I was talking about Tjuvholmen, not Aker Brygge. At the moment it hosts some of the city's most expensive housing. The resturants and cafes you find there are also some of the most expensive. Aker Brygge on the other hand mainly has office buildings so comparing it to Tjuvholmen isn't exactly correct. It also host a wide range of services in most price ranges, so it can be used by most people.

I'm not saying that there is anything wrong with vestkanten, I'm just saying that if Sørenga turns out like Tjuvholmen then going there will involve spending a lot of money, and thus it will be reserved for those who have a lot of money. The fjord and at least some of the resturants and services placed there should be accessible to everyone.

As for Groruddalen, I have nothing against the place or the people that live there, I'm just saying that it's not very urban. Students generally don't have money for a car, they want to spend time with their friends, so they want to live in a dense area where they can walk and use public transport. With the way the trends are going now, that might soon be impossible. That's all I'm saying.

About the student housing, I thought you were talking about architecture. As for student housing that works, I hear Bjølsen Studentby is pretty good.

We should probably put this particular topic to rest, but I would like to make some final comments to your post.

Tjuvholmen is by and large just an extension of Aker Brygge. The property prices are similar and also the type and standard of the buildings. The only difference is that Aker Brygge has a shopping mall and thus more shops to choose from. Tjuvholmen has single stores and coffee shops scattered around. Waynes Coffee and Ark Bokhandel are examples of this and are standard consumer offerings available to anyone. The restaurants also have a price level that is fully comparable to restaurants in other parts of the city. It, is after all, not necessary to have a McDonalds at Tjuvholmen for the average Joe to enjoy it.

As for the students, the fact that they want to live at the most popular places does not mean that my tax money should subsidize this for them. Public transport is available all over the city, so the fact that students do not (usually) have cars is of little consequence.

I use Anker Studentboliger as an example of a student village at a central location in Oslo. As far as I can see, that area has not benefitted at all from the presence of this establishment. The surrounding area appears gloomy and empty of residents, but it could of course be that I have not been there enough.

The bottom line is that I think Bjørvika would be better off with regular apartments that are traded on the open market. To spend millions of the tax payers’ money to give students prime location housing seems like a strange prioritization of public spending. Gamle Oslo also has a substantial amount of public housing as it is.

We should probably put this particular topic to rest, but I would like to make some final comments to your post.

Tjuvholmen is by and large just an extension of Aker Brygge. The property prices are similar and also the type and standard of the buildings. The only difference is that Aker Brygge has a shopping mall and thus more shops to choose from. Tjuvholmen has single stores and coffee shops scattered around. Waynes Coffee and Ark Bokhandel are examples of this and are standard consumer offerings available to anyone. The restaurants also have a price level that is fully comparable to restaurants in other parts of the city. It, is after all, not necessary to have a McDonalds at Tjuvholmen for the average Joe to enjoy it.

As for the students, the fact that they want to live at the most popular places does not mean that my tax money should subsidize this for them. Public transport is available all over the city, so the fact that students do not (usually) have cars is of little consequence.

I use Anker Studentboliger as an example of a student village at a central location in Oslo. As far as I can see, that area has not benefitted at all from the presence of this establishment. The surrounding area appears gloomy and empty of residents, but it could of course be that I have not been there enough.

The bottom line is that I think Bjørvika would be better off with regular apartments that are traded on the open market. To spend millions of the tax payers’ money to give students prime location housing seems like a strange prioritization of public spending. Gamle Oslo also has a substantial amount of public housing as it is.

I agree, we should leave it, agree to diasgree I guess:) but you have to agree that Groruddalen is not exactly a prime location for poor students with no car to live. The problem is that that is where they will end up if the current trend continues. That's why I'm for student housing in Bjørvika. If there was more urban housing for students being built elsewhere then it wouldn't be such a big deal. But there isn't. If a little public money is spent to acheive this then I'm okay with it.

As for Anker Studentbolig, for all it's problems, at least the building itself is in an excellent location, with walking distance to nearly half of Oslos cafes, shops and nightlife. It's also a very good building. It's urban, and has a streetfront that's lined with small shops on all sides. Hausmannsgate and the end of Storgata towards Grünerløkka might seem gloomy, but that's for reasons that have nothing to do with the student housing.

I don't see the problem, really..

The idea that everyone should have the possibility to live where they want is almost destroying the Norwegian welfare. Because of oil we don't have to be effective in this country, but at some point we have to stop the madness. Spending public money so the students can have their sleep in Bjørvika is a really bad idea. :ohno:

i agree with you.

take manhattan, for example.. its been widely gentrified. basically most of manhattan is only for rich people, but this has just made the city even more amazing. the central areas are richer and nicer.

nothing wrong with having centrally located housing as a benefit (goder) for those who are rich.

One tip, a lot of greeeeeeeeeeeeeeeat pics from the new Clarion Hotel Christiania has been layed out on the architects homepage, but somehow i cant be able to store them and lay them out for you. hope someone with knowledge of how to do this can help.

look at link to www.lsa.no go into their næring section and youll find 10 great pics.

looks quite awsome actually. hope they start construction very soon.

^^ That's cool. That block will be well utilized, and 17 floors it looks like?

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1078469

The final 6 adapted proposals for the new National Museum.

Back in Black

http://www.statsbygg.no/FilSystem/files/konkurranse/fase2/BackinBlack1-640.jpg


http://www.statsbygg.no/FilSystem/files/konkurranse/fase2/BackinBlack2-640.jpg


http://www.statsbygg.no/FilSystem/files/konkurranse/fase2/BackinBlack3-640.jpg




Forum Artis


http://www.statsbygg.no/FilSystem/files/konkurranse/fase2/ForumArtis1-640.jpg


http://www.statsbygg.no/FilSystem/files/konkurranse/fase2/ForumArtis_2-640.jpg




M Box



http://www.statsbygg.no/FilSystem/files/konkurranse/fase2/Mbox1-640.jpg



http://www.statsbygg.no/FilSystem/files/konkurranse/fase2/Mbox2-640.jpg




Trylleesken



http://www.statsbygg.no/FilSystem/files/konkurranse/fase2/Trylleesken1-640.jpg


http://www.statsbygg.no/FilSystem/files/konkurranse/fase2/Trylleesken2-640.jpg


http://www.statsbygg.no/FilSystem/files/konkurranse/fase2/Trylleesken3-640.jpg





Urban Canvas


http://www.statsbygg.no/FilSystem/files/konkurranse/fase2/UrbanCanvas1-640.jpg


http://www.statsbygg.no/FilSystem/files/konkurranse/fase2/UrbanCanvas2-640.jpg


http://www.statsbygg.no/FilSystem/files/konkurranse/fase2/UrbanCanvas3-640.jpg





Urban Transition



http://www.statsbygg.no/FilSystem/files/konkurranse/fase2/UrbanTransition1-640.jpg


http://www.statsbygg.no/FilSystem/files/konkurranse/fase2/UrbanTransition2-640.jpg


http://www.statsbygg.no/FilSystem/files/konkurranse/fase2/UrbanTransition3-640.jpg

I think it's a problem that Östbanehallen is in the way, the museum will be somewhat hidden behind it. But I think M BOX is the proposal that deals with this the best way. That flying roof is so sexy.

Bjørvika 2020:
NGVdDG-yV-I&feature=player_embedded#

^^

Very cool. It's nice to see some good visualiations of the whole area. It's a bit more easy on the eye than the volumestudies we've seen so far.

Oh yeah, great video, and the view from 4:30 is just :drool:.

There was another meeting about Bjørvika yesterday
http://www.aftenposten.no/kul_und/article3546290.ece, and another chance to give our points of view it seems.

So no one made the meeting? IceCheese? I admit i forgot about it... :lol:

Closer look at the competition entries with awsome PDFs:
http://www.statsbygg.no/Utviklingsprosjekter/Nasjonalmuseet/Fase-2-bidrag/

April 12. is the date of the verdict.

Bjørvika 2020:


As your link is broken, i repost it:
Dh0Ajxryr_0&feature=player_embedded#

Beach at Sørenga? YES! :banana:

I had no idea about this.... :lol:
http://www.haveiendom.no/filestore/Bilder/x/kongsbakken.jpg?size=450x1000

^^Well, we should get some kind of bonus for spending so much on cleaning up the bassin.

So no one made the meeting? IceCheese? I admit i forgot about it... :lol:

Well, I was working, as usual. Though I didn't know about it either:D

I mentioned it in the Lambda-tread sometime ago :nuts:

This could be interesting! (http://www.nrk.no/programoversikt/?p_otr_prog_id=MDSP12000410&p_otr_sendedato=20100310&p_otr_anntid=20.45&p_otr_kanal=NRK2&p_knapp=Omtale&p_artikkel_id=0)

Seems like the bridge is on the move here guys. Looking good.

http://i832.photobucket.com/albums/zz244/weidel23/bridgeoverjernbanen.jpg

And Østre tangent is moving along nicely.

picture special can be found on www.bygg.no

http://i832.photobucket.com/albums/zz244/weidel23/brumontering-stretangent.jpg

^^I'm just glad my train runs through an underground tunnel through that area...:nuts:

"And Østre tangent is moving along nicely."
Nicely is nice, but they need to hurry because the third section is the end of the week in Oslo.
http://dettibear.jalbum.net/Hollandia/slides/Oslo%20brug_20100309_0045.JPG.
Third section is loaded (09-03-10) and almost ready to go to Oslo.

Operakvarteret, DnB NOR is just appearing on the leftt side of the rendering. MAD Bygget's 3 floor beside that, then Visma Bygget,
with Isfjellet on the other side of the bridge. KLP Bygget's two buildings, and PriceWaterHouse all the way to the right.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y136/cityw/Architecture/Isfjellet3x1500.jpg
COPYRIGHT MIR (http://mir.no/)
>> download/open rendering (4000x2828 pixels | 4.0Mb .jpg) (http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y136/cityw/Architecture/Isfjellet3x4000.jpg)

^^I'm just glad my train runs through an underground tunnel through that area...:nuts:

I saw a train passing under there today as went to the site, (no pics.) the driver looked rather sceptic as he hesitated under the bridge. Spectacular work going on there at the moment!

Informationmeeting about Ekeberg and Grønlia 17. march at Sjømannskolen:

http://www.noblad.no/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100309/NYHETER/703099993/-1/RSS#

2nd piece now on site - 10/3

http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w255/greatcentral/010.jpg


http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w255/greatcentral/012.jpg

3th piece is coming end of this week (early next week). Its already loaded and almost ready for shipping from Hollandia.
http://jalbum.net/browse/user/album/520257/;jsessionid=7a1kzffv4isb

Great! Must be very nice to live near a stealwork like that and see amazing structures shipped out to all over the world :cheers: I really like the thin road-deck for this bridge, looks very gracefull :)

Great! Must be very nice to live near a stealwork like that
I don't live there (allthough my wife is thinking otherwise) but Hollandia is the place I work. And yes, it's great to see great structures leave (like the Great Wheel in London and the Swiss-Ree (egg-shape) building in London). Now we have started with the Pinnacle Tower in London (approx. 288m high).

The nimbys are getting organized:
http://fjordbyaksjonen.no/

The nimbys are getting organized:
http://fjordbyaksjonen.no/

Sorry, but what a bunch of loosers they are. What are they protesting against now, Barcode which they can't stop, or 5-6 storey skyscrapers at Sørenga? These crazy people should really move out of the city, they clearly don't like it :ohno:

Ny “plansmie” i Gamlebyen 10. mars
:lol:

Why dont they focus on other areas like Loenga instead? They Bjørvika plan has been decide in 5(?) years now, they know its to late.

Omg, that's a stupid action. Protesting only to protest. All yimbys should make a reply at the bottom of their page.

The nimbys are getting organized:
http://fjordbyaksjonen.no/

I feel like I should get better at spreading our views in my area. Seems as 50 % of all active NIMBY's in Oslo live in Gamle Oslo, which really is my realm, and I should get up at some meetings and spread some good thoughts, I guess. Also it would be important to try to calm people down, and try to tell them that all have had their voices heard, some way or another. Though I suspect it would've been a full time job...

heh...

Maybe it's time for YIMBYists yo get agressive too?



We will beat the naysayers, VIVA LA SKYSCRAPER! :cheers:

Maybe one day we can move every NIMBYist prick in this country to Setesdalen or something :)

I feel like I should get better at spreading our views in my area. Seems as 50 % of all active NIMBY's in Oslo live in Gamle Oslo, which really is my realm, and I should get up at some meetings and spread some good thoughts, I guess. Also it would be important to try to calm people down, and try to tell them that all have had their voices heard, some way or another. Though I suspect it would've been a full time job...
Funny how the phrase "being heard" is so often synonymous with "getting ones will through". As if it never happens that an argument is so based on self-centered feelery and misunderstandings that the opposing view wins through. NIMBYs in this case had so many chances to be heard (and did!) that they have only themselves to thank.

So, no, you can't convince them they've been heard, and if you ask them where the 10000 people who move here every year will go, they either say something amounting to "I don't care" (which is honest, I guess) or give you some totally unrealistic alternative.

Time to make an hørinsguttalelse for Munch/Deichman:
http://www.yimby.no/forum/thread.aspx?id=17&page=0#endofpage

But only for the planprogram, though. Personally, I would rather see Yimby comment on city development plans like the Breivoll-earlier this winter. There we could spread our urban views, and help prevent more new bad projects.
As an example, I visited Vestli today, and all I got was depresed... So much people, so much opportunity, and so much wasted everything.:ohno:


edit: But good job with the comment eitherway!:)

^^Is the ftime for høringsinnspill over yet? Latest innspill is from March 8th.

^^Is the ftime for høringsinnspill over yet? Latest innspill is from March 8th.

Yeah, I got inspired a bit too late...:ohno:

The whole project made by Bjørbekk & Lindheim about Ringnes Ekebergproject is available online:
http://www.ekebergskulpturpark.oslo.kommune.no/getfile.php/Kulturelt%20mangfold%20i%20Oslo%20%28KUM%29/Internett%20%28ESP%29/Dokumenter/Blark-skissedokument-web.pdf

It includes a nice render of what the Pylon at Loenga will look like:
http://i699.photobucket.com/albums/vv353/Ingenioren2/Gondol1.jpg

More info available on the projects website:
http://www.ekebergskulpturpark.oslo.kommune.no/

Quite a document you found there, and a lot of plans they had in that park :cheers:. Thought it would be more simple.

Funny stuff going on at finn.no:

http://www.finn.no/finn/realestate/newbuildings/object?finnkode=21396094

Great picture of the fjordcity by night:

http://i832.photobucket.com/albums/zz244/weidel23/operabynight-cool.jpg

An article in Aftenposten on sunday (couldn't find it on the website) says that Oslos byråd Stian Berger Røsland is positive to Riksantikvar Jørn Holmes ideas for Kongsbakken. They are planning to remove one of the blocks, and densify the surrounding blocks.

The proposal they might eventually end up with will preobably look something like this, an illustration made in January by architect Thomas Thiis-Evensen:

http://media.aftenposten.no/archive/01182/_F-Br_dtekst-gamle_1182467a.jpg

Needless to say it looks incredibly depressing. It's not even a park, just water. And they're saying that this will create a better "bybilde".

If they add more density to the blocks south of DEG i can easily swallow this :) More water is good, and if no squaremeters is lost i can even see this as an improvement to the old plan as the waterfront will be longer.

How are we going to cross it tough? A serious of floating "brygger" connecting Munch with Sørenga and the two banks of the new inlet?

If they add more density to the blocks south of DEG i can easily swallow this :) More water is good, and if no squaremeters is lost i can even see this as an improvement to the old plan as the waterfront will be longer.

How are we going to cross it tough? A serious of floating "brygger" connecting Munch with Sørenga and the two banks of the new inlet?

Well, I think a park would be better. A big body of water here would act as a barrier between Sørenga and Bjørvika. It would be better to make an extension of Middelalderparken.

When there already is land here, removing it would be a waste of money and space if you ask me.

This is just a selfish principle case for Riksantikvaren and will be a barrier anyhow the plot is a park or water. Even though he is a riksantikvar, I think its quite unbelievable that he cant manage to see this from more point of views :ohno:
Adding more density to the blocks south of DEG wont make this any better. One can only hope this wont happend.

An article in Aftenposten on sunday (couldn't find it on the website) says that Oslos byråd Stian Berger Røsland is positive to Riksantikvar Jørn Holmes ideas for Kongsbakken. They are planning to remove one of the blocks, and densify the surrounding blocks.

The proposal they might eventually end up with will preobably look something like this, an illustration made in January by architect Thomas Thiis-Evensen:

http://media.aftenposten.no/archive/01182/_F-Br_dtekst-gamle_1182467a.jpg

Needless to say it looks incredibly depressing. It's not even a park, just water. And they're saying that this will create a better "bybilde".

i can't imagine this is how it will end up, they've clearly just removed the section to give an idea of where the gap would be - if it is the final proposed alteration, why have they 'densified' the surrounding blocks.

it could work nicely as a perk or water if they gradually increased the height on either side of the gap... if there was real ambition they could even curve a building over the top... :)

http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u315/erreflot/Bilde391.jpg

i can't imagine this is how it will end up, they've clearly just removed the section to give an idea of where the gap would be - if it is the final proposed alteration, why have they 'densified' the surrounding blocks.

it could work nicely as a perk or water if they gradually increased the height on either side of the gap... if there was real ambition they could even curve a building over the top... :)

The buildings are already pretty dense -if they want it to be denser they have to increase the height

Front paneling has started on Visma now. Looking better and better.

Hope DnB starts shooting up now too. And why cant they get tenants to the ubercool Snøhettas building. We need to see it start rising.

http://i832.photobucket.com/albums/zz244/weidel23/OSU.jpg

Congrats Norway, you've got the most beautiful city of Scandinavia :)

Congrats Norway, you've got the most beautiful city of Scandinavia :)

:lol:

sorry, what?

I have to agree with u neek here!

:lol:
sorry, what?
It's not just the highrises and ever-developing skyline. The surroundings and the city itself offer a complete package that other major Scandi cities don't. Oslo may not be the most culturally interesting but aesthetically speaking it's a step above the others.

Just my opinion of course :)

It's not just the highrises and ever-developing skyline. The surroundings and the city itself offer a complete package that other major Scandi cities don't. Oslo may not be the most culturally interesting but aesthetically speaking it's a step above the others.

Just my opinion of course :)

okay, so it has some shabby hills surrounding it together with a waterfront.

i can tell you i was in stockholm last summer and it made me feel shame on behalf of oslo. i also believe that my own city is quite a few steps above oslo in terms of beauty, and so is yours (copenhagen).

i have to say you guys really leave me speechless, but its all a matter of opinion of course :) and i will accept it if you think oslo is the most beautiful city in scandinavia. i of course know that there are beautiful spots in oslo as well.

It's not just the highrises and ever-developing skyline. The surroundings and the city itself offer a complete package that other major Scandi cities don't. Oslo may not be the most culturally interesting but aesthetically speaking it's a step above the others.

Just my opinion of course :)

Oh, I thought you ment Ålesund... :nuts:

When it comes to culture I actually rank Oslo above Copenhagen and Stockholm, in classic beauty they both look better than Oslo. I rank Copenhagen better than Stockholm in beauty.

A great photo taken from Østkantliv.

This picture sees the new and completed Klp buildings correlating with the already done PriceWaterHouse building which is the first of the So called Barcode line.

http://i832.photobucket.com/albums/zz244/weidel23/BJRVIK2.jpg

pics from Bjørn Bratten - link (http://www.ostkantliv.no/

Oh, I thought you ment Ålesund... :nuts:

What? :nuts:

It's not just the highrises and ever-developing skyline. The surroundings and the city itself offer a complete package that other major Scandi cities don't. Oslo may not be the most culturally interesting but aesthetically speaking it's a step above the others.

Just my opinion of course :)

Have you actually been in Stockcholm ...???!

okay, so it has some shabby hills surrounding it together with a waterfront.

i can tell you i was in stockholm last summer and it made me feel shame on behalf of oslo. i also believe that my own city is quite a few steps above oslo in terms of beauty, and so is yours (copenhagen).

i have to say you guys really leave me speechless, but its all a matter of opinion of course :) and i will accept it if you think oslo is the most beautiful city in scandinavia. i of course know that there are beautiful spots in oslo as well.

It's true what u_neek says. According to NY times, the main reasons why tourist like Oslo is the Opera, the fancy resturants, and the setting with the tree covered hillsides. Not many capitol cities have what Oslo has to offer nature-wise.

I think Bergen and Ålesund are way better looking, but at least the new Fjordcity will bump us a few notches up on the beautiful-scale.

Well, first of all. Thank you U_neek for saying so.

Some people are so defensive that they go directly into defense postition. First of all, an opinion is an opinion. And in here, at least positive ones are something we should respond positive too.

I personally think Oslo is beautiful. It will never be Paris, but we are taking drastic steps nowadays and we're getting closer and closer to the capitol we want and deserve. We've really never been famous for architecture, thats now about to change, and i think will change more and more so in the future. We have money, and growth is very positive. This added together with a governmental effort into architecture lately have given results. The New Opera house is evidence A in this.

What Oslo has that not every other city has, is a very exceptional "frame" with woods all around the city lines and the fjord as the dot of the I around our city. And thats important to remember. Its our city and everyone that lives here should try to communicate their opinion on what they feel would benefit their city. I personally think developers and city councils should put more effort into getting more attractive apartment buildings. These days i only see square and very "the more the marrier" apartment buildings squezed into the smallest amount of squarefeet.

More beautiful apartment buildings, public spaces, parks and a lot more shop and restaurant activity on 1st floor. That should be the focus of attention.

In conclusion, Oslo with our latest addition of Tjuvholmen, Barcode, Opera, Sørenga, and soon Natural history museum and hopefully the vikings ships to the "middelalderbyen" would mean a colossal change and positive New Oslo. This will change the whole look of the city and it will be beautiful.

Yours sincerely

maybe tourists go to oslo because its setting is unusual, but i personally prefer stockholms setting by a mile.

i definitely agree that the fjord city project is exactly what oslo needs.

The buildings are already pretty dense -if they want it to be denser they have to increase the height

i meant to say 'why HAVEN'T they densified the buildings' ie in the picture they haven't changed the buildings, just removed the ones to show where the gap is, thus my conclusion that this is just a rough indication of where the gap would be rather than a conclusive idea of what they plan to put there....

meant to post this last month, i'm guessing it's been completely razed now...

http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w255/greatcentral/020.jpg

The winning proposal for the new National Museum will be announced next monday (13.04).

Even bigger date is closing up. In May the first half (eastbound) of the new Bjørvikatunnel will open! The biggest change of Bjørvika will happen in a day, just like that!:banana: (ok, it will happen in two days, as westbound will open someday Aug/Sept, but nevertheless). I'm personally taking out the flag, and will walk around randomly on E18 this day!

That sounds like a brilliant idea IceCheese! The first annual Fjordbyen parade:D

I'm joining that! :D

The winning proposal for the new National Museum will be announced next monday (13.04).

Do you mean next Monday (12.04.) or next Tuesday (13.04.)?

Do you mean next Monday (12.04.) or next Tuesday (13.04.)?

It is Monday 12.04. (http://www.statsbygg.no/Utviklingsprosjekter/NationalMuseum/)

09.04.10 09:33

Stor-Oslo Prosjekt er engasjert av Norwegian Property som prosjektleder for bygging av nytt restauranthus på Tingvalla-utstikkeren på Aker Brygge

http://i832.photobucket.com/albums/zz244/weidel23/akerbryggerestauranthus.jpg

^^ Looks nice. Remind me; what is located there at the moment?

its a restaurant there now as well. But very poorly design. Just very square and no place at all around the building. So this should be a very good addition. But Tjuvholmen will probably be stealing a lot of exlusive restaurant areas in days to come as this will be a bit more premium locations. But at least you have the sun very long out on the pier.

The best restaurants i predict will come on the last byggetrinn of Tjuvholmen where the apartments are. This will have afternoon sun and evening sun. A pint on summer nights here will be very nice indeed.

^^ Looks nice. Remind me; what is located there at the moment?

There is an outdoors restaurant (Herbern) there now that I think works quite well. There are so many inadequate buildings in Oslo that should be replaced before this one, but this is nothing new.

http://media.e24.no/archive/00838/_herbern_jpg_838288t.jpg

As far as I know this will also include a new center for the marina. I think this is a needed upgrade for the pier in general, and for the resturant and the service-center especially.

It is Monday 12.04. (http://www.statsbygg.no/Utviklingsprosjekter/NationalMuseum/)

Kårer museumsvinner (http://www.dagsavisen.no/kultur/article479591.ece)
Når avgjørelsen er tatt går arbeidet inn i fase tre som til slutt skal munne ut i innflyttingsklart bygg.

I thought the final winner would be choosen tomorrow...

Yes, but then they have to do all final adjustment to the winner, including making a new regulation for the plot with public hearings etc.

Kårer museumsvinner (http://www.dagsavisen.no/kultur/article479591.ece)

I thought the final winner would be choosen tomorrow...

This is pretty much the same thing they did with Munch Museum and Holmenkollen. They pick 1-3 winners, and then they negotiate and works with these proposals.


About Jan Sigurd Østberg, what a complete joke he is. Leader of Oslo Byes Vel and happy to protest against all kinds of projects, but he admits he haven't seen the proposals for the museum yet!?!?!?! People like that should never have a saying in matters like city development.. :ohno:

maybe tourists go to oslo because its setting is unusual, but i personally prefer stockholms setting by a mile.

i definitely agree that the fjord city project is exactly what oslo needs.

Here I both disagree with you and agree..

Of course, the Fjord city project will be an incredible addition to the Oslo water front! Here I couldn't agree with you more.

But when it comes to the natural setting of Oslo I couldn't disagree with you more. I think personally Oslo's natural setting is by FAR the MOST beautiful of the Scandinavian capitals. Not saying Stockholm and Helsinki doesn't have very beautiful natural settings, because they do, and imo they are equal in natural beauty. But they are FAR from as beautiful as Oslo. The combination of the beautiful fjord and the surrounding "hills" are amazing. When I came to Oslo I was amazed of how beautiful the surroundings were, and how much more beautiful they were than the ones in Stockholm, which have been hyped as "the most beautiful". And I think that is something Norwegians should be very proud of, the natural setting of their capital! That is just my opinion..:)

I didn't mention Reykjavik because I haven't been there, and I didn't mention Copenhagen because it doesn't have a beautiful natural setting, and might quite possibly have the most ugly and dull natural setting of whole of Denmark, but hey Copenhagen has other qualities..

Here I both disagree with you and agree..

Of course, the Fjord city project will be an incredible addition to the Oslo water front! Here I couldn't agree with you more.

But when it comes to the natural setting of Oslo I couldn't disagree with you more. I think personally Oslo's natural setting is by FAR the MOST beautiful of the Scandinavian capitals. Not saying Stockholm and Helsinki doesn't have very beautiful natural settings, because they do, and imo they are equal in natural beauty. But they are FAR from as beautiful as Oslo. The combination of the beautiful fjord and the surrounding "hills" are amazing. When I came to Oslo I was amazed of how beautiful the surroundings were, and how much more beautiful they were than the ones in Stockholm, which have been hyped as "the most beautiful". And I think that is something Norwegians should be very proud of, the natural setting of their capital! That is just my opinion..:)

I didn't mention Reykjavik because I haven't been there, and I didn't mention Copenhagen because it doesn't have a beautiful natural setting, and might quite possibly have the most ugly and dull natural setting of whole of Denmark, but hey Copenhagen has other qualities..


And that's okay ... it's your opinion.
I go for Stockholm, its location with lots of beautiful islands and of course lots of beautiful buildings and streets :-))

Stockholm is like a metropolis:-)

Stockholm is beautiful...
http://www.cuyc.org.uk/programme/events/090713stockholmto/old_site/images/Stockholm.jpg/
http://www.orangesmile.com/common/img_final_large/stockholm_sightseeing.jpg
http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Travel/Pix/pictures/2008/05/12/gamlastan1.jpg

And that's okay ... it's your opinion.
I go for Stockholm, its location with lots of beautiful islands and of course lots of beautiful buildings and streets :-))

Stockholm is like a metropolis:-)


I haven't said Oslo is more beautiful than Stockholm. Stockholm is clearly the most beautiful of the Scandinavian capitals. But the natural setting is not as beautiful as the natural setting in Oslo. And your pictures don't exactly show anything else than the beauty of the architecture and how perfectly planned the city was, and how well the natural setting has been incorporated in the city center. Because all that is what makes Stockholm so beautiful. But the natural setting is still miles from as beautiful as the natural setting of Oslo, and that has nothing to do with the beauty of the architecture in any of the two cities..:)

Realax Katia, Dancle is talking about NATURAL SETTING, not the buildings or the city itself..


In the future (yes, it will happend) when the islands is developed into a part of the city I guess many will say that Oslo is beautiful also

http://www.filmfrasor.no/images/oslo/fjordbyen.jpg

The islands will never be used for anything other than recreation.

The islands will never be used for anything other than recreation.

I think you are wrong on that, but probbly not in our lifetime. The use of those islands is already controversial, and when the rest of the protected fauna is dead there will be few arguments left to keep them the way they are tooday (mostly cabins for a small number of people). The city and the population would be better of if it was made a part of innercity :)

The biggest obstacle for this to happed is perhaps that people most of the time just sees what they have, and not what they can get..

The possibility for development on this islands is probably getting further and further away for each year... Though, I think it is a paradox with all the cabins on this islands. They should surely be teared down and replaced with public beaches, football fields, zoo etc...

The possibility for development on this islands is probably getting further and further away for each year... Though, I think it is a paradox with all the cabins on this islands. They should surely be teared down and replaced with public beaches, football fields, zoo etc...


You mean like this? (http://www.dn.no/eiendom/fritid/article1869983.ece)

BTW, Oslo should have a ZOO, but I think Holmenkollen/Nordmarka is the best location for that.

Those islands would make perfect sites for replacing harbour capacity lost to fjordcity....

*ducks behind cover*

It would be possible to build on the islands and connect them with bridges from Sjursøya and Vipetangen. They would only be about 600m max. Then maybe they could build an underwater metro from Jernbanetorget out to Nesodden with stations on each island. That would be cool.:banana:

Maybe it's best to have them for recreation, BUT, not privately owned cabins, smaller hotels, some rent-a-cabins and a maybe a fancy highrise hotel ala Molde Seilet would be better? i think many tourists would love that, and still be close to the city.

The winning proposal for the new National Museum will be announced next monday (13.04).

And here we are; http://www.dagbladet.no/2010/04/12/kultur/nasjonalmuseet/statsbygg/vestbanen/oslo/11241997/

Hooray for long, boring, monotonous facades and bad renderings. Second and third place are better, though.

I like the idea of having a bridge from downtown to one of the islands, that would certainly be a landmark for the city :)

About the museum:


.. et monumentalbygg
hvis eleganse nettopp ligger i at det er en horisontal kontrast til områdets vertikale preg.

I have heard this argument many times in city planning. It never works that way, long facades suck always. It will certainly be a contrast, just not a good one.

Jury statement is here:
http://www.statsbygg.no/FilSystem/files/prosjekter/nasjonalmuseet/FaktaarkJuryomtaler.pdf

And here we are; http://www.dagbladet.no/2010/04/12/kultur/nasjonalmuseet/statsbygg/vestbanen/oslo/11241997/

Hooray for long, boring, monotonous facades and bad renderings. Second and third place are better, though.

haha look at the poll in the article.. :lol:

i hate how people with no taste seem to have the power in this country.

in my opinion, trylleesken looks really great :) to me it looks more impressive than urban transition, which of course is a very great proposal as well.

imagine seeing trylleesken from a distance.. itd be such a great building for Oslo IMO.

Or canvas from a distance! :nuts:

This building will ruin the view towards the towers in Munkedamsveien, shame on them!

http://www.statsbygg.no/FilSystem/files/konkurranse/fase2/Modellbilder/forum-artisØst-640.jpg

Strange winner...

It was the proposal with the least of renderings, so hopefully it can change a lot.

Because this was the worst of the proposals... and it won! :ohno:

Or canvas from a distance! :nuts:

This building will ruin the view towards the towers in Munkedamsveien, shame on them!

http://www.statsbygg.no/FilSystem/files/konkurranse/fase2/Modellbilder/forum-artisØst-640.jpg


My god Vestbanen is completely dwarfed.. Might as well built around the poor thing and keep it as an museum artifact.



Hope i dont get too flamed for saying this - But Vestbanen redevelopment has (and always have had) disaster written all over it.
Why must we build so incredible dense right here? Ingeniøren is right about the view in and around Munkedamsveien.
If you ask me the beauty of this spot today is the breathing space it creates to the surrounding buildings. The share size of most of these proposals completely overpower the whole area including Rådhusplassen - as opposed to contributing. I fear the building will also compete too much with Rådhuset itself which i might remind you all was voted Oslo's favorite building by its citizens.

By all means build and redevelop this spot - but build 1/3 'rd of what is proposed today. How about a nice unpretentious railway, transport museum or something, market place and a stylish slim tall office building up Dronning Maud's Gate. :) I guess that would make too much sense..


-

Oh man, how typical. Picking the most boring proposal. Though the 2nd place was my favourite.

Synes dette var et bra valg. Som arkitektur synes jeg det var det klart beste valget, og det bringer noe nytt til Oslo. Strenge og vakre linjer med som gir meditative/sakrale kvaliteter i de åpne rommene. Veldig spennende!

Likevel var forslaget bare mitt andrevalg blant finalistene. Bygget virker for lavt, og jeg er litt usikker på hvordan langsidene vil fungere i byrommet. Den største usikkerheten til prosjektet har jeg til hovedgrepet, den lysende hallen. Jeg synes det ser veldig flott ut på bildene, men er usikker på hvordan det vil virke i dagslys, og hvordan det vil være om kvelden. Den lysende hallen gir en utrolig flott effekt på kveldsbildet, men bildet er fritt for "lysforurensing" fra omgivelsene. Mye av dette prosjektet står og faller på hvordan denne hallen vil fungere som signal, i virkeligheten. Det skal bli spennende å følge, men jeg føler meg ikke helt trygg på det endelige resultatet.

http://www.statsbygg.no/FilSystem/files/konkurranse/fase2/ForumArtis_2-640.jpg

@ingeniørens picture.. herregud, så synd :(

it looks horrible. what an awful building that is and totally misplaced i tillegg.

@ingeniørens picture.. herregud, så synd :(

it looks horrible. what an awful building that is and totally misplaced i tillegg.

Jeg er utrolig glad det er kvalifiserte mennesker som tar disse valgene, og ikke menigmann.. ;)

Jeg er utrolig glad det er kvalifiserte mennesker som tar disse valgene, og ikke menigmann.. ;)

det er sikkert jeg og, i mange tilfeller.. men må si jeg heller ville hatt urban transition enn det vi får nå.. og avstemningen på vg viser at jeg ikke er alene om dette.

Trenger vel ikke være "viter" for å sette pris på et godt bybilde. Og jeg har vanskelig for å tro at de lange, ubrutte (og for ikke å si vindusløse) fasadene i dette bygget vil skape et dårlig bymiljø og et upreget bybilde. Her hadde man i tillegg muligheten til å fortsette noe spennende fra Aker Brygge (Holmens gate), hvilket man heller svarte på med å anlegge en tremur. Og Dronning Mauds gate er jo bare enda verre.

But they picked three winners today right? Trodde finalen var idag, så var redd Forum Artis skulle bli bygd da jeg så dette!

So we will wait to the end of August to see which one of the three that will actually be built. :)

This building will ruin the view towards the towers in Munkedamsveien, shame on them!


I'm happy to see i'm not the only fan of the towers..

det er sikkert jeg og, i mange tilfeller.. men må si jeg heller ville hatt urban transition enn det vi får nå.. og avstemningen på vg viser at jeg ikke er alene om dette.

Det er akkurat poenget mitt, arkitektur er et fag. Mulig jeg er fordomsfull, men jeg tror jeg har mitt på det tørre hvis jeg hevder at de fleste som svarer på VG's undersøkelse har lite eller ingen kompetanse i faget. De kan naturlivis uttrykke sin mening om Forum Artis, men det er ikke noen god målestokk på hvor bra eller dårlig arkitekturen er.. :)

Det finnes utallige eksempler på prosjekter som blir latterliggjort og kritisert av folk flest når de ser det på papiret(Operaen og Hamsunsenteret er to ferske eksempler) . Skjellsordene sitter ofte løst. Når byggene er ferdige og publikum får tid til å oppleve bygget snur ofte opinionen. Grunnen til dette er at folk flest ikke vet best. Når det gjelder arkitektur mangler de evnen til å "oversette" tegninger og få en forståelse for hvordan det ferdige prosjektet blir .

But they picked three winners today right? Trodde finalen var idag, så var redd Forum Artis skulle bli bygd da jeg så dette!

So we will wait to the end of August to see which one of the three that will actually be built. :)

The winners of the architectual competition were announced today. Whos proposal will get build is still a bit open, but if we remember back to Munch/Dechmanske, both #1s were the ones who got chosen in the end.

Det er akkurat poenget mitt, arkitektur er et fag. Mulig jeg er fordomsfull, men jeg tror jeg har mitt på det tørre hvis jeg hevder at de fleste som svarer på VG's undersøkelse har lite eller ingen kompetanse i faget. De kan naturlivis uttrykke sin mening om Forum Artis, men det er ikke noen god målestokk på hvor bra eller dårlig arkitekturen er.. :)

Det finnes utallige eksempler på prosjekter som blir latterliggjort og kritisert av folk flest når de ser det på papiret(Operaen og Hamsunsenteret er to ferske eksempler) . Skjellsordene sitter ofte løst. Når byggene er ferdige og publikum får tid til å oppleve bygget snur ofte opinionen. Grunnen til dette er at folk flest ikke vet best. Når det gjelder arkitektur mangler de evnen til å "oversette" tegninger og få en forståelse for hvordan det ferdige prosjektet blir .

hadde de gitt os ordentlige renderings skulle det nok ikke være noe problem å skjønne hvordan bygget kommer til å se ut når det står ferdig..

det er klart at profesjonelle arkitekter har mer peiling på arkitektur, men når det gjelder hva som ser bra og hva som ser dårlig ut er det nok opp til den enkelte. det finnes ingen fasitsvar på dette, og gang på gang opplever jeg at mesteparten av folket er uenige med de profesjonelle som tar avgjørelsene.. og det får meg til å synes at folket burde ha mer makt når det gjelder sånne ting, det er tross alt til folket byene bygges, ikke til fem-seks bestemte personer med lang utdanning.

å ha avstemninger i store aviser som faktisk kunne hatt real innflytelse på det endelige valget synes jeg er en ganske fornuftig ting å spørre om. det finnes nok av bygg i norske byer som er hatet av 90% av befolkningen, men som fortsatt blir berømmet av arkitekter osv.. rådhuset i bergen, f.eks.

Rådhuset i Bergen er ikke stygt. Så mange sier at det er det, men det er det ikke... Det bare skiller seg litt fra omgivelsene:) Personlig forbinder jeg stort sett stygt (for bygninger) med kun tre ting: dårlig vedlikehold, lange fasader uten pusterom og til sist ensformighet/repitisjon. Galleri Oslo har alt sammen:)

Looks like Oslo Vest is getting its very own Galleri Oslo. A long monotonous facade.

Må nesten ta dette på Norsk. Bygget er forsåvidt pent å se på, men det værste er at det ikke tilfører noe bymessig til området. Den flotte bystrukturen fra Aker Brygge og Vika med kvartaler, brede gater og bygg på rundt 6 etasjer er ikke videreført. Man kunne ha trukket gaten som går fra Tjuvholmen gjennom Aker Brygge gjennom tomten, men det har de ikke tenkt på. På delen som ligger nederst mot sjøen er det ikke tegnet noen butikker inn på gateplan. På østsiden mot Vika har du ingen klar fasade mot veien, her kunne man ha skape en god forbindelse mellom Vika terasse og sjøen. Så er det også det som ingeniøren sier, at kontorbygget stenger ute blokkene ved munkedamsveien. Bygget er rett og slett veldig lite urbant. Dette minner mer om noe som hadde hørt hjemme på Fornebu eller Helsfyr enn i Oslo.

Vi får håpe at juryen kanskje velger en av de andre vinnerne. Personlig liker jeg Urban Transition veldig godt.

å ha avstemninger i store aviser som faktisk kunne hatt real innflytelse på det endelige valget synes jeg er en ganske fornuftig ting å spørre om. det finnes nok av bygg i norske byer som er hatet av 90% av befolkningen, men som fortsatt blir berømmet av arkitekter osv.. rådhuset i bergen, f.eks.

Hvis folket skulle bestemme er jeg redd Norge hadde lignet en blanding av fornøyelsespark og stabbur-romantikk. Det holder å se hva folk flest gjør med egne hus, og hva de stapper inn i dem..

Looks like Oslo Vest is getting its very own Galleri Oslo. A long monotonous facade.

Må nesten ta dette på Norsk. Bygget er forsåvidt pent å se på, men det værste er at det ikke tilfører noe bymessig til området. Den flotte bystrukturen fra Aker Brygge og Vika med kvartaler, brede gater og bygg på rundt 6 etasjer er ikke videreført. Man kunne ha trukket gaten som går fra Tjuvholmen gjennom Aker Brygge gjennom tomten, men det har de ikke tenkt på. På delen som ligger nederst mot sjøen er det ikke tegnet noen butikker inn på gateplan. På østsiden mot Vika har du ingen klar fasade mot veien, her kunne man ha skape en god forbindelse mellom Vika terasse og sjøen. Så er det også det som ingeniøren sier, at kontorbygget stenger ute blokkene ved munkedamsveien. Bygget er rett og slett veldig lite urbant. Dette minner mer om noe som hadde hørt hjemme på Fornebu eller Helsfyr enn i Oslo.

Vi får håpe at juryen kanskje velger en av de andre vinnerne. Personlig liker jeg Urban Transition veldig godt.

Enig med alt utenom himmelretningene!:yes: