I like coming to this site because it shows me the progress that our country is making and also keeps me in-touch with developminded people from our country but I would like to bring up an issue that has really made me conserned about where we are heading as a country.
The issue is tribalism and the division it brings to the country along with the roadblocks to development that come with it. I decided to bring up this subject on this forum with the hope that discussion will help us all. I have two examples that will fully explain my consern.
One of my wifes older friends is currently in Kenya visiting her daughter who works for the UN, they are from West Africa, Gunea Bissau to be precise. My wife has spoke to her a few times since she went to Kenya and she is very impressed with the country which is great to here considering she has travelled extensively all over the world but one issue she brought out was the tribalism issue, here's the quote " Kenya is a great country but the tribal issue is a major problem" this coming from someone who has been in the country for only a month. She comes from a country that has had many political problems and some ethnic issues but she says Kenya is worse than her country.
The second example is from the states. One of our close friends is married to an American brother, his sister works in a group home with a few Kenyans and when she mentioned that her brother is married to a Kenyan, their first question was "what tribe", she called her brother who told her that his wife is Kikuyu, the responce was " tell your brother to leave her because Kikuyu
s are evil".
I know that the second example could also come from an ignorant Kikuyu but the American guy, who is very perceptive asked me about this issue and I could not give him an explanation.
I appologize for bringing up an unpleasant topic but it is an issue that continues to be ignored back home and I know that it will be the stambling block to development. I fully expect the same problems again come the next election and I for one am fed up and embarassed to have Kenya back in the news because of this very issue.

i dont know about the tribalism in kenya right now cuz i have not been there for years but what i will tell you is that i know countles kenyans that are NOT tribalists.

i am a kamba and i just took in a kikuyu couple who just came from kenya to the states a month ago, i took them in becuz my sister asked me to cater for them. another kenyan who is a luhya is living with a taita family because he just came to america, his brother(who is wealthy) refused to take him in and he called his taita friend that he briefly met at a conference. my brother's wife is kikuyu and they have 2 boys. my sister is married to a luhya(the man is addicted to any food that is chicken based) and they have a son(my siblings just cant seem to give me a niece. i badly want one. nephews are pure trouble but alot fun). my best friend is a cross breed(thats how i poke fun at him) of luo and kamba but he can hardly speak neither luo nor kamba(dumbass)

mybe kenguy can shed more light on the tribalism issue but from what i know and gather from people back in kenya is that on a social level interaction tribalism is hardly ever an issue but tribalism shows its ugly head when it comes to the job market. for some reason(annoyingly) a kamba boss would tend to hire a kamba over a kikuyu not because he hates kikuyus but because he thinks that he is helping his tribe(a feeling of doing a noble duty to his tribe). this applies to all other tribes in kenya. the other time tribalism creeps up is in politics. damn it the politicians have exploited tribalism for their own good destroying our country in the process. I HATE KENYAN POLITICIANS!!!! they get on my last damn nerve.

so when a kenyan asks you what tribe you come from in a social setting he or she is asking purely out of curiosity.

that is my opinion on the tribalism topic but as i said i havent set foot in kenya since july 2007 so i am not up to date with the current kenyan social norms.

the ever dependable kenguy might enlighten us more on that topic.

from what i know and gather from people back in kenya is that on a social level interaction tribalism is hardly ever an issue but tribalism shows its ugly head when it comes to the job market. for some reason(annoyingly) a kamba boss would tend to hire a kamba over a kikuyu not because he hates kikuyus but because he thinks that he is helping his tribe(a feeling of doing a noble duty to his tribe). this applies to all other tribes in kenya. the other time tribalism creeps up is in politics. damn it the politicians have exploited tribalism for their own good destroying our country in the process. I HATE KENYAN POLITICIANS!!!! they get on my last damn nerve.

You summed it all up. I mean, most of us even here in Kenya have close friends across the board from different tribes and racial groups. The biggest headache comes from politics and I don't think I'm the only one who believes that our politicians are largely responsible for negative ethnicity in the country.

I view Kenya to have 3 generations of people. There are those who were born before independence and shortly afterwards during the Kenyatta era in the 60's-1978. This is where a number of our politicians fall. They were raised in mostly ethnic monotonous regions and were socialised to have allegience to their ethnic groups first and Kenya second. They tend to have social groups based on ethnicity and love to use ethnic languages more than English or Swahili.

The next generation was what I call the Nyayo generation. Those that were born or grew up during the Moi era. Due to their upbringing, particularly in urban areas, many began losing their ethnic identity and would associate more with their surroundings or ''mtaa'' if you like than where their ancestors came from. A number, especially in big urban areas like Nairobi don't even know their mother tongue and would rather converse in Swahili, English or Sheng. Their social networks are more liberal and are rarely based on ethnicity and more on jobs, social class, interests e.t.c.

Then we have the Y generation. Those born towards the end of Moi's regime to the present day. Their perceptions are still being formed and they are yet to have an identity. Language preference is Sheng.

Now you can see why our politicians behave the way they do apart from using ethnicity as a means of survival. Good news is that their time is almost up and they will be replaced with those from the Nyayo generation which has a more nationalistic outlook.

so when a kenyan asks you what tribe you come from in a social setting he or she is asking purely out of curiosity.

When I'm asked that question, I smile and walk away.:)

from what i know and gather from people back in kenya is that on a social level interaction tribalism is hardly ever an issue but tribalism shows its ugly head when it comes to the job market. for some reason(annoyingly) a kamba boss would tend to hire a kamba over a kikuyu not because he hates kikuyus but because he thinks that he is helping his tribe(a feeling of doing a noble duty to his tribe). this applies to all other tribes in kenya. the other time tribalism creeps up is in politics. damn it the politicians have exploited tribalism for their own good destroying our country in the process. I HATE KENYAN POLITICIANS!!!! they get on my last damn nerve.

You summed it all up. I mean, most of us even here in Kenya have close friends across the board from different tribes and racial groups. The biggest headache comes from politics and I don't think I'm the only one who believes that our politicians are largely responsible for negative ethnicity in the country.

I view Kenya to have 3 generations of people. There are those who were born before independence and shortly afterwards during the Kenyatta era in the 60's-1978. This is where a number of our politicians fall. They were raised in mostly ethnic monotonous regions and were socialised to have allegience to their ethnic groups first and Kenya second. They tend to have social groups based on ethnicity and love to use ethnic languages more than English or Swahili.

The next generation was what I call the Nyayo generation. Those that were born or grew up during the Moi era. Due to their upbringing, particularly in urban areas, many began losing their ethnic identity and would associate more with their surroundings or ''mtaa'' if you like than where their ancestors came from. A number, especially in big urban areas like Nairobi don't even know their mother tongue and would rather converse in Swahili, English or Sheng. Their social networks are more liberal and are rarely based on ethnicity and more on jobs, social class, interests e.t.c.

Then we have the Y generation. Those born towards the end of Moi's regime to the present day. Their perceptions are still being formed and they are yet to have an identity. Language preference is Sheng.

Now you can see why our politicians behave the way they do apart from using ethnicity as a means of survival. Good news is that their time is almost up and they will be replaced with those from the Nyayo generation which has a more nationalistic outlook.

Like Mr Githongo put it, Kenya is like a computer. Fairly new hardware running on an old operating system and wrong software.

The second example is from the states. One of our close friends is married to an American brother, his sister works in a group home with a few Kenyans and when she mentioned that her brother is married to a Kenyan, their first question was "what tribe", she called her brother who told her that his wife is Kikuyu, the responce was " tell your brother to leave her because Kikuyu
s are evil".
I know that the second example could also come from an ignorant Kikuyu but the American guy, who is very perceptive asked me about this issue and I could not give him an explanation.

I have always wondered where most of these stereotypes originated, particularly about the Kikuyu. Though you got to be really stupid to base your opinions about individuals on stereotypes, even if you were raised on those stereotypes.

I fully expect the same problems again come the next election and I for one am fed up and embarassed to have Kenya back in the news because of this very issue.

Many things may change between now and the elections. Just like we could not have guessed (even in my wildest nightmares) that 2007 would turn out the way it did, we can also not say for certain that the next election will be the same.

Im also fed up with our politicians. On second thought, who isn't! Though sooner or later, what Kenyans did to Moi is what they will do to this current crop of politicians even if it is one at a time. My only worry is that even the good ones get sucked into the system.

When I'm asked that question, I smile and walk away.:)

i should do more of the same.

You summed it all up. I mean, most of us even here in Kenya have close friends across the board from different tribes and racial groups. The biggest headache comes from politics and I don't think I'm the only one who believes that our politicians are largely responsible for negative ethnicity in the country.

I view Kenya to have 3 generations of people. There are those who were born before independence and shortly afterwards during the Kenyatta era in the 60's-1978. This is where a number of our politicians fall. They were raised in mostly ethnic monotonous regions and were socialised to have allegience to their ethnic groups first and Kenya second. They tend to have social groups based on ethnicity and love to use ethnic languages more than English or Swahili.

The next generation was what I call the Nyayo generation. Those that were born or grew up during the Moi era. Due to their upbringing, particularly in urban areas, many began losing their ethnic identity and would associate more with their surroundings or ''mtaa'' if you like than where their ancestors came from. A number, especially in big urban areas like Nairobi don't even know their mother tongue and would rather converse in Swahili, English or Sheng. Their social networks are more liberal and are rarely based on ethnicity and more on jobs, social class, interests e.t.c.

Then we have the Y generation. Those born towards the end of Moi's regime to the present day. Their perceptions are still being formed and they are yet to have an identity. Language preference is Sheng.

Now you can see why our politicians behave the way they do apart from using ethnicity as a means of survival. Good news is that their time is almost up and they will be replaced with those from the Nyayo generation which has a more nationalistic outlook.

Like Mr Githongo put it, Kenya is like a computer. Fairly new hardware running on an old operating system and wrong software.

happy that you quoted githongo. he is one of my mordern kenyan heroes. the guy risked his own life for the good of his country. he stood for what was right. he fought against the status quo. i wish i knew wether he is politically savvy because he could be the new generation of politicians we are all crying out for.

you are quite an observer of the kenyan society. i appreciate your insight.

tribalism shows its ugly head when it comes to the job market. for some reason(annoyingly) a kamba boss would tend to hire a kamba over a kikuyu not because he hates kikuyus but because he thinks that he is helping his tribe(a feeling of doing a noble duty to his tribe). this applies to all other tribes in kenya. the other time tribalism creeps up is in politics.


This is the same issue we have in the US. An Indian wants to hire an Indian, a Vietnamese wants to hire another Viet, a Filipino wants another Filipino hired. A Mexican wants another Mexican or Latin speaker hired, Afghans want Afghans to work with, Chinese want Chinese... I mentioned the worst offenders on this.

The only fair (not in terms of skin color :-) ) ones are White people. They hire you based on your skill. Although they reserve management positions for whites only.

Blacks will not hire you if you are black, this is the opposite extreme.

Arabs, Ethios, Iranians, Kenyans, etc... don't help each other that much either.

So now you have the work place clogged with Vietnamese working in the low level of the tech industry, Chinese and Indians in the high level of the tech industry, Filipinos in assembly level skills, Mexicans in jobs that require physical work, whites in management positions. The rest of us are free floaters we are at the mercy of whites to get hired because no Indian, Mexican, Vietnamese, Chinese or Filipino will hire you. It sucks.

In Ethiopia a sick custom of hiring based on party affiliation is settling into place. Not only getting hired, but also your business license approval, Apartment and house rental priorities, business activity freedoms, land procurements, etc... are all affected.
Its illegal to do this in Ethiopia but the party in power promotes it in a secret basis. If you see the power positions in the Ethiopian Military, not only all of them are from the powerful party but most of them are from one single minority tribe.

I don't know what can be done but this is a real issue all over the world. Democracy has no answer to this.

happy that you quoted githongo. he is one of my mordern kenyan heroes. the guy risked his own life for the good of his country. he stood for what was right. he fought against the status quo. i wish i knew wether he is politically savvy because he could be the new generation of politicians we are all crying out for.

I also wish we had more people like him. Though I'm also observing a few MP's who are silent for the most part but whose actions are really speaking louder than words. Their constituencies are improving dramatically and they get things done. You will hardly ever see them in the press since the rabble are busy shouting their heads off at rallys and meetings plotting one alliance or another.

Kenyans are watching and I get the feeling some politicians are not reading the writing on the wall. They only had one card to play and that card was put on the table in 2007. It will be game over very soon for them.

i won't be surprise if the country turns to violent tribalism again... i actually told one of my friends i can see fighting happening again very soon. the problem laid in the current status quo, those in positions of power will use whatever means necessary to hold their control. as political parties encourage tribal affiliation, naturally tribalism thrives.

to solve a problem like this you'd have to deconstruct the divisive system build by the british. kenya was build on an invisible apartheid system where whites were at the top owning all the land, curries owning all the shops, and africans at the bottom labouring. a lot of thoughts and practices from the past are evident in our society today. hence, it's no accident tribalism exists in our country today and there are even a few that energetically maintain it to hold their positions of power.

to be continued...

to solve a problem like this you'd have to deconstruct the divisive system build by the british...

Hence the new constitution.

kenya was build on an invisible apartheid system where whites were at the top owning all the land, curries owning all the shops, and africans at the bottom labouring. a lot of thoughts and practices from the past are evident in our society today. hence, it's no accident tribalism exists in our country today and there are even a few that energetically maintain it to hold their positions of power.

Alot of other countries had the same structure, Zimbabwe, Zambia, Malawi e.t.c. It may be the root of the problem but not the driver of tribalism. That's where those politicians and their financiers come in. These group of people will be removed with time...the hague, old age, some will get voted out...but eventually, they will leave.

The solution is simple. Get rid of the bad system (through a new constitution and reform of major institutions). And get rid of those who support the system (The rotten apples in the August house and those they front).

Hence the new constitution.



Alot of other countries had the same structure, Zimbabwe, Zambia, Malawi e.t.c. It may be the root of the problem but not the driver of tribalism. That's where those politicians and their financiers come in. These group of people will be removed with time...the hague, old age, some will get voted out...but eventually, they will leave.

The solution is simple. Get rid of the bad system (through a new constitution and reform of major institutions). And get rid of those who support the system (The rotten apples in the August house and those they front).

i think what you are trying to say is some kenyan politicians are corrupted? and really corruption is just another form of stealing. so get rid of corruption and tribalism will disappeared?

it might be a stereotype on my behalf but the kikuya tribe are the most "flexible" people in kenya. but look at the economic progress under Kibaki vs. dictator Moi.

i don't claim to have the answers but Moi really did put kenya back to the stone ages. for progress in kenya, we need good public roads and reliable electricity. hence, kenyan people will be able to conduct a little business and the country and economy will grow. so give me affordable & reliable roads and electricity, don't rig the election... you will get my vote. however, not all kenyans think the same.

i think what you are trying to say is some kenyan politicians are corrupted? and really corruption is just another form of stealing. so get rid of corruption and tribalism will disappeared?

No. I meant get rid of the politicians driving their personal agendas through tribalism and the problem will be very much minimised. Tribes will be with us forever but negative ethnicity can be solved.

it might be a stereotype on my behalf but the kikuya tribe are the most "flexible" people in kenya. but look at the economic progress under Kibaki vs. dictator Moi.i don't claim to have the answers but Moi really did put kenya back to the stone ages. for progress in kenya, we need good public roads and reliable electricity. hence, kenyan people will be able to conduct a little business and the country and economy will grow. so give me affordable & reliable roads and electricity, don't rig the election... you will get my vote. however, not all kenyans think the same.

Dont know what you mean by 'Kyuks' being the most flexible people but I agree with you about the Moi era...looking at the sum total of his achievements you can say that they were almost totally wasted years. Plus his administration entrenched this negative ethnicity thing, carrying on the legacy from Kenyatta. (Alifuata Nyayo!) Kibaki had the chance to correct all that but squandered his chance while listening to his clique of insiders.

Given that we are a democracy, how do the masses get rid of the corrupt leaders now when they have failed to recognize the need to rid them in the past? It will take an enlightened mass, and that enlightenment will have to come through many channels, the biggest one being through formal education. Our leaders (elite) have, deliberately or inadvertently, ensured that the masses stay ignorant and submissive
No. I meant get rid of the politicians driving their personal agendas through tribalism and the problem will be very much minimised. Tribes will be with us forever but negative ethnicity can be solved.



Dont know what you mean by 'Kyuks' being the most flexible people but I agree with you about the Moi era...looking at the sum total of his achievements you can say that they were almost totally wasted years. Plus his administration entrenched this negative ethnicity thing, carrying on the legacy from Kenyatta. (Alifuata Nyayo!) Kibaki had the chance to correct all that but squandered his chance while listening to his clique of insiders.

Its good to know that there are people who are optimistic of the future of kenya, as regards the issue of tribalism. The only problem right now is the psychological vulnerability of the majority of Kenyans, as they believe all political propaganda spewed by their politicians who also act as their tribal ciefs. It becomes very difficult to dislodge them on the ballot as they brainwash the people and bribe ignorant voters to triumph in elections. They have almost succeeded in balkanising the country into tribal chiefdoms. Whenever they are caught with one crime or another, like corruption or crime against humanity, they take a tribal cover. I hope the majority of the people will realise the dangers of this type of politics and rid us away this breed of leaders.

Its good to know that there are people who are optimistic of the future of kenya, as regards the issue of tribalism. The only problem right now is the psychological vulnerability of the majority of Kenyans, as they believe all political propaganda spewed by their politicians who also act as their tribal ciefs. It becomes very difficult to dislodge them on the ballot as they brainwash the people and bribe ignorant voters to triumph in elections. They have almost succeeded in balkanising the country into tribal chiefdoms. Whenever they are caught with one crime or another, like corruption or crime against humanity, they take a tribal cover. I hope the majority of the people will realise the dangers of this type of politics and rid us away this breed of leaders.

^^
Why is it that most Kenyans believe that their fellow countrymen keep on voting in their leaders even when they fail to deliver? Here's something I got from wikipedia.

Parliamentary elections in Kenya were held as part of the Kenyan general election on December 27, 2007; presidential elections were held on the same date.

These parliamentary elections were held to be free and generally fair as opposed to the contested presidential elections. They were remarkable for a number of changes. Amongst these were:


Out of 190 outgoing MPs defending their seats only 71 were re-elected.

20 ministers defending their seats were defeated

KANU the official opposition party of 2002 which later joined the government was reduced from 62 to 14 seats.

15 female candidates were elected which is the highest number ever in Kenyan history


Compare this to the 1988 elections which were also said to be rigged. That year, Moi reduced parliament to an institution full of syncophants willing to do his every whim. Any wonder Kenya's economy began to collapse soon afterwards with no one to oppose him? Today, the opposition is the majority in parliament.

Though I guess the rigged presidential election and its aftermath made everyone ignorant of what happened at the parliamentary elections. I still believe we will elect better leaders in the elections that will follow.