I think this deserves it's own thread:

WOW is all I can say. I drove along Little Collins Street yesterday arvo (behind Bunnings) and guess what I saw? A model of the refurbished Bunnings building and a new 43 + 6 podium (total of 49) story building proposed for the back of the Bunnings site in Little Collins Street.

The model is there for all to see, and its looks amazing. Sorry, I didn't have a camera with me at the time, but if anyone is in the CBD, you can see the model through the window on Little Collins St.

393-403 Bourke Street
DSE Permit # TPM 04/000108
Date received: 04/05/2004
Demolition, development and use for the purpose of retail, office, residential accomodation and short stay public car parking (158 spaces)

This is a surprise, a proposal of this size in the current market. Is it a stroke of genius, plain stupidity or do they just want to sell the site with a planning permit?

I really, really hope this goes ahead, the previous proposals for the site have been piss weak and a 200m tower on the site would have a fantastic impact on the skyline.

Wow, this was totally unexpected! It has been a while since a major proposal of this magnitude...

Which end of Bourke Street would it be in? West, east or middle?

Sweet ! Can't wait for a pic.

Gday Skiesthelimit

This proposal will be built in the middle of bourke street, near the Commonwealth Bank Building on Bourke St

Cheers

Lozza

OK thanks a lot lozza!

Hmm, down the middle of Bourke St eh? Not a bad location actually, it's where the Melbourne CBD lacks a bit of height... you've got Rialto/BP in the west and then of course the 'Paris' end scrapers, but nothing much in the middle significantly over 500ft/150m, apart from MC of course...

well i contacted the planning officer involved with the DA and he was quite helpful! He said it was "60 levels" (this may include basements) and will rise to 197m! to LMR above Little Collins street. The roof is 191m high.
its RL is 207m. So same height as FWP1! has anyone a map to indicate its location?
He said he wasnt sure if the developer is just trying for a permit of going for broke. but all i can say is he has balls! lol
if it goes ahead it will be Melbournes 7th highest to roof!

tallest to roof in 2007?
Eureka Tower 297 m 91 2005
Rialto Towers 251 m 63 1986
Bourke Place 224 m 51 1991
120 Collins St 220 m 52 1991
Melbourne Central 211 m 53 1991
Freshwater Place North 205 m 62 2005
#397 Bourke Street 197m 50 2007?
101 Collins Street 195 m 50 1991



cheers

Well done Cul, is the tower itself office, residential or mixed use?

David Marriner got a 50 storey office tower approved for the site in 1988 in exhcange for restoring the Pricess Theatre. I presume the current proposal would be the same height/size as that proposal as I understand the credits for restoring the Princess Theatre are still available.

Pity they can't go 3m higher :-)

The site is located right next door to the commonweath bank tower at 385 Bourke Street.

http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/1739/cbd.JPG

grollo, im sure he mentioned theres 18 levels of office? but tower is mostly apartments.
steve- thanks, so its behind the com bank which is 170m. that sure form a nice cluster of tall ones.

I had a look down there today at lunchtime Guys but i couldn't find the picture of the tower???

where exactly is the render of it again ?

cheers

lozza

Wow, this was totally unexpected! It has been a while since a major proposal of this magnitude...

Which end of Bourke Street would it be in? West, east or middle?
I presume that the tower will actually be on Little Collins, not Bourke St, even though Bunnings has a Bourke St entrance. And yes, as everyone has said, it's right next to the CBA tower/Galleria "Shopping Centre" that has a skewed alignment (like proposed Grand Central on corner of Bourke and Williams).

Wesfarmers owns Bunnings and the property is probably owned by Bunnings Warehouse Property Trust, and given that Bunnings is Wesfarmer's biggest money spinner, I would say that this proposal definitely has the financial clout to make it happen, if they decided it was right for the market. The middle cluster of 40-50 level towers is actually quite dense: Optus, CBA, ANZ, 150W, NAB, AMP, etc. But that height is just awesome - to think it would be 20 metres to roof taller than CBA, which is already considerable height!!!

Now - the question is - WTF does it look like??!!!!

what does it look like? the planner told me a basic square flat top box tower with a central plantroom rising above a 2 stepped podium. -simple! lol
Also the RL of CBA is 176m while RL of 393 Bourke will be 207m, thus 31m/100ft higher!!!

what does it look like? the planner told me a basic square flat top box tower with a central plantroom rising above a 2 stepped podium. -simple! lol
Also the RL of CBA is 176m while RL of 393 Bourke will be 207m, thus 31m/100ft higher!!!
simple box - hmmm - depends on how it's handled - could be boring, but all the towers in that area are basic boxes. ALL. apart from shape - i'm more concerned with: how would it be finished? facade treatment? and pity no spire (presumably)!

But height is good - damn good - 31m higher than CBA!!! wowowowow!!!!

Its a very sqaure building, almost like a rubix cube. There are also some smaller cubes sticking out the sides and it is right on Little Collins St, not Bourke Street. I have to take a pic of the model and post it up here.

THE STATS

Bunnings / McKewans site. 2 stage development
1st stage: McKewans building refurb & retail buildings - residential. Looks to be selling right now, project expected to at least within the next 15 months (times nicely with other projects around the city nearing completion)
2nd stage: 61 level tower with car parking and all the norms.

368 Little Collins Street.

61 levels, podium levels (up to 8 I think it was) retail (to be integrated with the McKewans refurb and to be built with the refurb), one or two levels for Commercial tenancies and car parking, apartments (4 x 3 configuration throughout most of the tower) from 8 / 9 upwards to l60, l61 = LMR.

- Architects: Fender Katsalidis
- Development timeframe: 2+ years, although podium / retail et al will be built with McKewans refurb (as above) with all foundations in preperation for tower (could be another Victoria to Melbourne Central - you never know with long term projects)
- Apartments: at a guess around 150 - 200.
- Dimensions: ~25m x 25m x top RL: 207.700M* - Little Collins RL 10.018m = 197.682m**

- Setbacks:
10.7m from Little collins Street
18.5m from Bourke Street apartments (McKewans refurb)
39.050m from CBA Melbourne HQ
56.000m from ANZ World Headquarters
60.4m from Prudential proposal***
77.8m from Westpac Melbourne HQ

* the top RL wasn't taken from the vibisle top of the building, at a guess there's another 3m on top of the building (see render below)
** unadjusted complete figure
*** The site plans state (see below) that the Prudential / "C21" proposal is 38 levels high (roughly: 38 x 4 = 152m / 500")
it'll be the tallest residential in the CBD if built in current form.
site

http://metropolis.tayser.net/projects/cbd/368lcollinsrender3.jpg

contexts

http://metropolis.tayser.net/projects/cbd/368lcollinsrender2.jpg

your daddy

http://metropolis.tayser.net/projects/cbd/368lcollinsrender1.jpg

^^ the 200.700m figure is what you'd get if you added the 3m that I was talking about above.

________________________________________

It's like World Tower meets Lippo Centre in Honkers, just with a more liberal facade than World Tower and more conservative & refined blocks than Lippo.

http://www.skyscraperpage.com/cities/?buildingID=1588&drawingID=23775 http://www.skyscraperpage.com/cities/?buildingID=260&drawingID=23310

extremely thin even compared to ANZ WHQ, I'm LOVING the eccentric colours, will give that area of town a severe kick up the conservative corporate arse if built.

BRING IT ON. :rock:

Does anybody know of the company behind this proposal? Are they a heavy weight, build it regardless of the market type of company?

Some other things:

-Bunnings are moving out from September - so realistically anytime after then is when something will happen on the site (they've got a crapload to demolish mind)
-You can see in the main render that there's a height calculation at about 150m - that's where normal apartments stop (around l50) and then penthouses start (for about 8 or 9 levels to l60)
-Before anyone give us a simplistic & pessimistic view of Melbourne's market, let's just keep in mind that we're (Melburnians) the ones on the ground watching this massive residential shift heading toward the city, it's not going to stop anytime in the long run, projects may be successful, some may flop, but as today suggests, we're not going to see a drought of proposals anytime soon!
-This is a long-term project which is susceptible to the same forces that 2FWP and Savoy is - things can get shortened, delayed or planning permits can expire. It won't get built overnight, but it might happen.
-Give it 20 years, and Melbourne's west end will be a skyline in its own right to be reckoned with, in built form density, and height - not to mention potential population density and I think it's safe to say that this along with the Convention Centre, Collins St Portfolio & any potential stuff for the KSIG and AGE sites, will be the start of "Old city" and "New City" integration. (look out for a big mumma west end thread looking at all the stuff which are moving that way in the coming days, it'll be interesting to get input and see a total of all projects west of Elizabeth Street!)

w00t

sweet!
im sure fender Katsalidis wont let us down!

thanks for that tays! btw the maximum height of the bldg is RL207m!! this WAS the top of LMR. not sure what you mean about another 3m??? theres nothing above the LMR. The roof was RL201m, so theres a 6m tall LMR above the roof. is that what you mean? The maximum height above ground is 197m!-i confirmed this twice with planner.
so not quite 200m but pretty close.

how does that explain 200.700m then?

look at the last rendering, there's at least one level's worth of what looks like translucent facade rising above the roof line (where the 200.700m figure is marked beside).

tays, the "200.7m" is the RL at the main roof (i rounded it to 201m as mentioned above).
The elevation doesnt show the 6m plantroom which rises above this to RL207m.the ground is RL10m, thus 197m tall!
I know "RLs' are so bloody confusing and loooks like Nonda likes using them also, sometimes not even indicating what the figures are above!

heres the tower added in an old skyline i drew back in 92.Its seen from Southbank but without all the new ones (Eureka, FWP ect).
as you can see its a big one!

http://img52.photobucket.com/albums/v158/culwulla/melbskylinewith397bourke.jpg
cheers

Less than a day after first on the forum Culs already whipped up a drawing :D
Hehe, dedication!

200m is awesome. Too cool and another fender katsalidis! woot :D

Some other things:

-Bunnings are moving out from September - so realistically anytime after then is when something will happen on the site (they've got a crapload to demolish mind)
-You can see in the main render that there's a height calculation at about 150m - that's where normal apartments stop (around l50) and then penthouses start (for about 8 or 9 levels to l60)
-Before anyone give us a simplistic & pessimistic view of Melbourne's market, let's just keep in mind that we're (Melburnians) the ones on the ground watching this massive residential shift heading toward the city, it's not going to stop anytime in the long run, projects may be successful, some may flop, but as today suggests, we're not going to see a drought of proposals anytime soon!
-This is a long-term project which is susceptible to the same forces that 2FWP and Savoy is - things can get shortened, delayed or planning permits can expire. It won't get built overnight, but it might happen.
-Give it 20 years, and Melbourne's west end will be a skyline in its own right to be reckoned with, in built form density, and height - not to mention potential population density and I think it's safe to say that this along with the Convention Centre, Collins St Portfolio & any potential stuff for the KSIG and AGE sites, will be the start of "Old city" and "New City" integration. (look out for a big mumma west end thread looking at all the stuff which are moving that way in the coming days, it'll be interesting to get input and see a total of all projects west of Elizabeth Street!)

w00t

Totally agree

These guys are playing it safe and quite clever. By a first stage of not very large development involving the heritage building, by the time they get around to doing the tower, they are already in front of other competition and have got the site underway. Even if the current developers don't build this tower, they may on-sell the site and approval to somebody more gung-ho, but now is the right time to put the first steps in place.

The west end / AGE and power station sites are waiting on completion of Southern Cross Station to change peoples perception of the area. There WILL be large proposals for these sites, but they will also take a long time to actually get built. I would not be surprised if each site changes hands at least twice until something gets built. Council have no height limits to encourage developers to push that side of the city, and I don't think they would change the rules. Both the AGE and power station are both lucrative, but I would say the AGE will be the first to get a large development, given the time to clean up the asbestos ridden power station site. Also, once the AGE gets a large proposal, it will make KSIG more lucrative, or vice versa.

I really see the AGE / power station as similar to World Square - they may sit vacant for a while, but will be at the heart of something similar to Sydney's southern CBD in the next decade. There is so much land down there....just give it time! Either way, now that the market is in a lull... developers and site owners are looking forward!

While on the subject, I really like the way Melbourne is developing in clusters - it feels like there are 3-4 different cities beside eachother- EAST, WEST, SOUTHBANK, DOCKLANDS, and there is breathing room to actually see the buildings!

I am liking the design individualism, not in the league of Lippo IMO but then again not much is. It looks far better than world tower and the colours and the glass treatment seems rather flattering.

You have to remember that the oversupply of apartments really only applies to Docklands and Southbank.

In the CBD itself there are only three major apartment developments U/C (verve 501, Concept Blue and QV) and they are all at the northern end of the CBD.

There are no major apartment projects U/C or planned for the central CBD area so I think this would have a realistic chance of getting built as investors move out of Docklands and Southbank and look for something different.

As you can see from that diagram it will be a perfect gap filler between 385 Bourke and the ANZ/Optus House/Westpac cluster.

Looks Like a nice Eureka blue glass facade, FK rocks :-)

This would also be the equal thinnest tower in oz with FWP with a width of only 25m and a heigh of 197m (FWP width:26m, height 205m). But FWP is 64m long, this tower is 25x25! That is an amazingly small floorplate for a 60 sotrey tower (625 square metres). Look at the size of the tower compared to the Commonweath Bank Centre, it will look very tall because it is so thin.

Cul: ah ok, btw, the official address is 368 Little Collins Street that Bourke Street address in your diagram is the heritage refurb that's on the market now.

Fountainhead: I dont doubt things will take a while to kick off, I just think it's time we start highlighting the trends, as when you compare potential sites in the East end (Harley house is the only one which comes to mind) to the West End, well there's heaps upon HEAPS of room in the West End. All the better I say, that NW corner is so low-density (population and buildings) - it doesn't feel much like real Melbourne. I do like the concentration on the old financial district though (Elizabeth to William, bounded by Flinders and Bourke). I didn't think to ask for any possible planning apps on the Prudential site though - silvermb, and I know you're going to have a look at these plans (:D) can you ask about the prudential site?

Grollo: yeah, the planning app (which is the biggest I've seen btw, at least 200 pages) has heaps of bulk & massing images. In the distance skyline massing models, it hardly registers cos it's so thin ;) Also great to note, as it is an FK proposal, in those bulk models, they have E in the skyline :rock: :)

I found the Prudential site Proposal:

DSE Permit application: TPM 03/0000007
Date: 07/11/2003
128-146 Queen Street
Development of a new office building with associated car parking.

With 368 Little Collins (197m), Prudential site (150m?) and Grand Central (up to 300m possible) the west end of the CBD is certianly going to be beefed up in the future.

Cul: ah ok, btw, the official address is 368 Little Collins Street that Bourke Street address in your diagram is the heritage refurb that's on the market now.

Fountainhead: I dont doubt things will take a while to kick off, I just think it's time we start highlighting the trends, as when you compare potential sites in the East end (Harley house is the only one which comes to mind) to the West End, well there's heaps upon HEAPS of room in the West End. All the better I say, that NW corner is so low-density (population and buildings) - it doesn't feel much like real Melbourne. I do like the concentration on the old financial district though (Elizabeth to William, bounded by Flinders and Bourke). I didn't think to ask for any possible planning apps on the Prudential site though - silvermb, and I know you're going to have a look at these plans (:D) can you ask about the prudential site?

Grollo: yeah, the planning app (which is the biggest I've seen btw, at least 200 pages) has heaps of bulk & massing images. In the distance skyline massing models, it hardly registers cos it's so thin ;) Also great to note, as it is an FK proposal, in those bulk models, they have E in the skyline :rock: :)
i only went off the address Grollo posted. but this was enough for the planner to inform me of stats.
time will tell with this one. As grollo said, its has something going for it, as its not in Southbank or Docklands, but in west CBD so it boosts its chances slightly.

See what I mean guys? Its a great design for a great site. Let's hope it gets off the ground. Thanks Tays!

PS What is this Prudential / "C21" proposal? I don't know anything about it.

http://metropolis.tayser.net/projects/renderings/cbd/c21a.jpg

Oh geee! I knew about that tower, but I thought it was on the northeast corner, but looking at that pic above, I was wrong! Silly me! Another WOW from me! ;)

Here is a pic of the model in the cosmopolitan on Bourke Display suite. It wasn't open when I went past so I had to take the pic through the window, they had a big rendering of the tower on the wall as well.

Cosmopolitan on Little Collins?
http://www.members.optusnet.com.au/~naharrison/model.jpg

hmmm, my jury is still out on this one! im sure it will turn out fine as Nondas behind it.sure is thin.

wow ... not bad. I didn't know about this proposal.
Looks like a really unique design.

Yeah looks like a nice building. I must say I only thought that it was the small Bourke Apartments on that site. A mate has an apartment in Collins Gate next to the Westpac Courtyard and I had walked past a couple of times. What I am kinda worried about is that Commonwealth Bank tower has been on its on at that height in that part of town for ages and I've been on the top floor as my mate works at TXU and its cool how you can walk around the office plate and see 360 degrees of Melbourne and its not close to anything else at that height and now a big chunk of the view is to be lost. You guys all like to see bulk and height... I am one who doesnt like to see existing views lost...eg. The Philadelphia Building losing its view along the Yarra to Crown because of an abomination called E&Y :(

Lets hope Nonda gets it right, a la Republic :D

The loss of views can not be used to argue refusal of a planning application. Views are subjective and change every day. Having a view is not a right, its a privilege

Yeah, true Aussie Steve. That is part and parcel of living in or around the CBD area - you should always expect someone to build higher than you in the future... unless you are the lucky SOB who gets to live in the top penthouse in Eureka of course ;) in which you can expect uninteruppted 360 degree views for the forseeable future. But even that won't last forever... :)

Re the design - the renders look good. It's not an ICONIC design by any measure IMHO, but its height and slender profile is very notable, and one could describe the tower as having an almost elegant simplicity. Very similar to, say, Savoy proposal. And we don't know what materials they're looking at yet. I am almost inclined to suggest (if I had to call it) that this might actually be a Karl Fender rather than a Nonda Katsalidis design. Why? It is more reminiscent of the two book ends at Melb Uni Parkville campus on Swanston - the Ian Potter Gallery and the Sidney Myer Asia Centre, both award winning buildings. It doesn't have the busy-ness and noise of a WT or even the "heavy metal" noise of Republic tower, if I can put it that way. Then again, Eureka is a Nonda, and it's clean and streamlined. I wouldn't draw comparisons to Lippo in any way.

Now, can we list all the resi proposals for the "next cycle"?

Prima site
Bunnings
FWP2
Savoy
Prudential
Harley House? But how long are the current leases on the site being entered into for?
Age Site?
Sharpe Tower?
Any others? Maybe Grand Central site? Maybe RMIT's CUB site?
(Please help me out here, as I'm not good at this sort of "listing").

Now - I disagree re the effect of such a tower on the market. First, it's great that the heritage redevelopment is stage 1. Second, it's designed by FK and backed by current owners Wesfarmers, who have the clout (and their share price isn't doing too badly, either thanks to Bunnings). BUT third: I think that it won't make a shred of difference that this is located in the CBD proper, as compared to Southbank/Docklands. It's the SAME market, which I believe is in serious trouble. The issue is not sales today or yesterday, but the fact that owner-investors have borrowed to purchase, but can't find renters, or their equity has actually decreased in value and are now in trouble. I'll discuss this further when I have time.

Its is true that the market is in a slump, and unfortuantely many people are having to repay large amounts of cash on investments which they cannot find tennants. To make matters worse the value of their properties is in many cases is in deciline, but this is in effect a short term phenomenon, and many people trying to buy out of investments in the Docklands for example will be kicking themselves down the track because it is a genuine great investment with huge profits and returns in the long run, its just a fact of whether or not you can get through the tough times to reap the benifits later on.

The site is not owned by Westfarmers, Bunnings are just a tenant and will be moving out in September. The site is owned by Stephen Donnellys development company (see www.cosonbourke.com.au)

The design is similar to the FK design for 420 Spencer Street (which was refused by VCAT).

There are a few reasons why this development will have at least a small chance of getting built in the next couple of years:

ALL of the bad press lately had been directed at Docklands and Southbank where the amount of development is there for all to see. The CBD and St. Kilda Road don't have such a negative image (Yve exceeded sales expectations even though it was released after the bottom fell out of the Southbank and Docklands markets because of it was a quality, innovate design in a good location).

FK are superstar architects (like Harry S in Sydney) and have a loyal following of investors who buy in their premium developments (Melbourne Terrace, Republic, HM@S, Eureka...).

It is a superb location, Little Collins Street is the most 'chic' street in Melbourne at the moment and it's right near the centre of the city, not too far from southbank and a short walk to GPO Melbourne.

It's not in Southank or Docklands :-)

There will be virtyually nothing else on the market when it is released (except for left over apartments in other developments).

Using AussieSteve's logic, you could building anything, anywhere. I just think that some views/aspects are sacred and should be left alone.

Now, can we list all the resi proposals for the "next cycle"?

Prima site
Bunnings
FWP2
Savoy
Prudential
Harley House? But how long are the current leases on the site being entered into for?
Age Site?
Sharpe Tower?
Any others? Maybe Grand Central site? Maybe RMIT's CUB site?
(Please help me out here, as I'm not good at this sort of "listing").


The ones we know about:

368 Little collins [this one]
Prima [reduced height] development
2 Freshwater Place [reduced height]
Savoy [application expired? What happens with there Grollo? can they just reapply with the same proposals etc?]
Harley House [application expired? same as Savoy AFAIK]

that's really only 3 "big" residential proposals (assuming this gets Planning approval) to be marketed / built in the not so distant future. The sales people were saying the heritage will get done within 15 months, along with the podium et al (I wouldn't be surprised if they try and off-load the tower to someone else after that).

Just look at MCC's own forecast for population over the next 12 years:

City of Melbourne (LGA)
2001: 52,000, 2016: 109,000
http://www.id.com.au/melbourne/forecastid/default.asp?WebID=10&MnID=4&PgID=1&SVG=1

CBD:
2001: 8000, 2016: 21,000
http://www.id.com.au/melbourne/forecastid/default.asp?WebID=140&MnID=4&PgID=1&SVG=1

Southbank:
2001: 4000, 2016: 16,000
http://www.id.com.au/melbourne/forecastid/default.asp?WebID=180&MnID=4&PgID=1&SVG=1

Docklands:
2001: 158, 2016: 16,000

MCC-LGA = [b]doubling in population
CBD = doubling in population
Southbank = quadruplicating in population
Docklands = LOL!

Now, let's just say MCC's forecast is somewhat accurate for 2016: are you really worried about any drought of proposals / construction? I'm certainly not.

This is just pissy compared to what's in store for us in the next 10 years!

Anyone want to hazard a guess at how many units would be required for those population forecasts?

2 - 3 years is a realistic timeframe for the marketting / construction of this proposal as is, plenty of time to absorb the excess from this boom we've had over the past 3 years.

Chilax Blabbs! :)

Age / KSIG: don't even bother guessing.

The proposal is currently the height of Eureka :P

Which proposal, The Age site?

Savoy has expired but they could easily get another permit for the same or even higher, 300m if they wanted :-)

The leases on the Harley House site were only for five years from 2003.

Other big ones are all the towers to come in Docklands (Shangri La Hotel 180m+, YE6-11, NewQuay 6-10?, at least one more 180m+ tower on Batmans Hill)

There are stacks of 30 storey Southbank proposals waiting for the right market conditions.

The CUB site is having a new masterplan prepared I believe.

A new tower will go up on the AXA forecourt sooner or later (probably not the DCM design).

The list of possibilities just goes on and on...

At the moment the number of CBD/Southabank Docklands apartments has gone from virtually none to tens of thousands in about seven years. Of course it is going to take some time for the market to adjust. In a couple of years Melbourne will have a more mature apartment market with pretty constant levels of construction like Sydney and Toronto.

Braddyboy, which views are you talking about, because the only view that is sacred in Melbourne is that of the Shrine from the corner of Swanston & Victoria Sts

Nah, this 197 metre proposal, Eureka is currently 197 metres. Plonk a narrowed Eureka and you'll get the idea :)

just think, it would completely block this view from Optus House

http://melbournephotos.gotdns.com/pics/2003-09-19%20Melbourne%20-%20Ozscraper%20meet,%20Optus%20house%20and%20IBM%20tower/IMG_2765.JPG

(pic thanks to uewepuep)

you stole my pic you bastard! i will destroy you! BLAUAGAURGHH

different model to that of grollo's.
love the shape of the tower but i'd prefer not so many colours on the final product as per tayser's pics.

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/photopost/uploads/483/cos.jpg

Ok I have not seen that model before
Madness how it sticks out of the Box !

Pffwoooaarrrrr.. madness full-stop

May be only a planning pipedream at the moment, but I'd be very happy if this monty went up (Just wished I lived on the other side of my building I'd have primo view !!)

just to clarify a few things

the proposal submitted on behalf of East Pty Ltd, dont know where/how Donnelly Group fits in?

if they manage to build the first stage, this tower is guaranteed, the first few levels of the towers core will be built initially, similar to Latitude there will be a core sticking out until the tower is built.

RL 207 is to the 60th floor. the plans show floor 61 is the enclosed LMR above the marked RL 207 in the plans below. so in fact the tower will be 200m above street level if you include level 61/top of LMR.

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/photopost/uploads/483/cosplan.jpg

I hate to say it, but "I told you so" LOL ;)

So it's 200m then, can we modify the topic title??

I just went down to look at the display and it looks awesome!! As pointed out - Lippo Centre meets World Tower in FKA style..

This will be a huge boon for the central CBD if it goes ahead - the area around Bourke St Mall & Elizabeth St is just looking that bit tired and a spanking modern glass masterpiece like this will spruice things up nicely..

Development companies start up other companies to do certain developments or for other reasons. The planning applications for Central Equity are always under some other company name, probably for tax purposes or something. The whole site is definately owned by the Donnelly Group.

I count 62 levels plus the small LMR in the middle of the roof (which wouldn't count as a floor). 200m from street level is a nice round figure and exactly the same height as the 50 storey office tower that was approved in the late 80's.

Did you see an overshadowing plan? If it doesn't overshadow the north bank of the Yarra it's a definate approval.

i asked the planner twice for the maximum height of bldg and he said Rl207m. jeez some are dim wits. so it must be RL210m to LMR?? thus 200m above street??

Its is true that the market is in a slump, and unfortuantely many people are having to repay large amounts of cash on investments which they cannot find tennants. To make matters worse the value of their properties is in many cases is in deciline, but this is in effect a short term phenomenon, and many people trying to buy out of investments in the Docklands for example will be kicking themselves down the track because it is a genuine great investment with huge profits and returns in the long run, its just a fact of whether or not you can get through the tough times to reap the benifits later on.
Nah - I still reckon they're heading for the shit heap. Problem is that the repayments have to be made whether or not the price goes up - and waiting 10 years for a profit to be made isn't viable when the repayments have to be made monthly. I still think it's high risk for buyers, but no worries for developers as long as they can offload quickly. Many Southbanks apartments haven't appreciated much in price - CE in particular. Granted, this is a slightly different market, but still...I wonder what sort of price growth Republic Tower apartments have seen so far?

So it's 200m then, can we modify the topic title??

I just went down to look at the display and it looks awesome!! As pointed out - Lippo Centre meets World Tower in FKA style..

This will be a huge boon for the central CBD if it goes ahead - the area around Bourke St Mall & Elizabeth St is just looking that bit tired and a spanking modern glass masterpiece like this will spruice things up nicely..
Its official- 200m!!! i contacted planner again and he said this>>
roof RL-201m
plantroom RL-207.7m
LMR RL- 210m
- RL 10m at street = 200m!!!
the LMR at top is 2.3m high, so this gives the tower its height of 200m up from 197m.
He also said that the stage 1 will proabably go ahead first and the tower will proceed with a couple of years depending on markets?.it should get planning approval from minister in 2 months or so.

I think it was official when I posted this the other day cul - LOL:

http://metropolis.tayser.net/projects/cbd/368lcollinsrender1.jpg

200.700m

and PLEASE stop putting a forward slash in the title, or at least put whitespace either side of it!

tays

lol, nah not so fast. TAYS that is still the RL"S as i mentioned!!
notice the plant and LMR arent shown!!!!
those heights are above sea level!
the roof is 200.7m RL which we know. above this are plant and LMR whichreach RL210m.
the 200m for LMR isnt 200.7m but exactly 200m above street.

the roof RL here should say 200.7m. then the 2 levels of plantroom/LMR

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/photopost/uploads/483/cosplan.jpg

yes very confusing.
whats wrong with slash?? lol

Wow. Looks like it's made of lego blocks or something!! Amazing design.

lol, nah not so fast. TAYS that is still the RL"S as i mentioned!!
notice the plant and LMR arent shown!!!!
those heights are above sea level!
the roof is 200.7m RL which we know. above this are plant and LMR whichreach RL210m.
the 200m for LMR isnt 200.7m but exactly 200m above street.

the roof RL here should say 200.7m. then the 2 levels of plantroom/LMR

yes very confusing.
whats wrong with slash?? lol

not really, go back over what I originally posted and you'll see that I was on exactly the same track with 210.700m RL minus 10.018m = 200.682m :)

the render might show somthing different & at a different position, however:

- Architects: Fender Katsalidis
- Development timeframe: 2+ years, although podium / retail et al will be built with McKewans refurb (as above) with all foundations in preperation for tower (could be another Victoria to Melbourne Central - you never know with long term projects)
- Apartments: at a guess around 150 - 200.
- Dimensions: ~25m x 25m x top RL: 207.700M* - Little Collins RL 10.018m = 197.682m**

_____

* the top RL wasn't taken from the vibisle top of the building, at a guess there's another 3m on top of the building (see render below)


I was beginning to doubt myself, not anymore! :)

i asked the planner twice for the maximum height of bldg and he said Rl207m. jeez some are dim wits. so it must be RL210m to LMR?? thus 200m above street??

I find it's very common for architects to leave off the heights for spires, LMR, architectural features... I think it's because most of the height requirments in Melbourne are to the roof of the highest habitable floor, so that's all they indicate on the planning applications.

Did you see an overshadowing plan? If it doesn't overshadow the north bank of the Yarra it's a definate approval.

I don't recall it specifically, however have just measured:

the distance between the southern facade to the northern tip / facade of Optus House is approximately 150 - 155 metres.

From memory, Optus House and Rialto are the two main towers which overshadow, right? Could they have designed it around Optus House "catching" the shadow?

Or how would you calculate if it would overshadow? Any mathematicians out there? LOL ;)

47 Metres taller than Optus House and 150 - 155 metres to the north of the northern-most point of Optus House.

I find it's very common for architects to leave off the heights for spires, LMR, architectural features... I think it's because most of the height requirments in Melbourne are to the roof of the highest habitable floor, so that's all they indicate on the planning applications.
thats what planner said, he said "why do want to know the heights with plantroom/lmr?" i said just tell me the damn heights! lol
he was just interested in the 200mRl height of main roof.

not really, go back over what I originally posted and you'll see that I was on exactly the same track with 210.700m RL minus 10.018m = 200.682m :)

the render might show somthing different & at a different position, however:



I was beginning to doubt myself, not anymore! :)

your quote>

Originally Posted by tayser
- Architects: Fender Katsalidis
- Development timeframe: 2+ years, although podium / retail et al will be built with McKewans refurb (as above) with all foundations in preperation for tower (could be another Victoria to Melbourne Central - you never know with long term projects)
- Apartments: at a guess around 150 - 200.
- Dimensions: ~25m x 25m x top RL: 207.700M* - Little Collins RL 10.018m = 197.682m**
end quote}



tays, your quote says 207.7m not 210.7m!!
nearly every render of elevation was different? some with plant some without. virtually none with small LMR. very confusing collection,.
the bottom line is its a 190m building with a plantroom and LMR which equal 10m, thus totals 200m. ;-)

for fuck sake, 200m above ground - simple as that!

the plans had about 10 different overshadowing scenario's, none of which posed any threat to the Yarra, this tower is home and hosed (famous last words)

edit - 61 floors, not 62
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/photopost/uploads/483/cosw.jpg

lol, 200m it is! the planner actually said the site has no height limitations! woohoo!

The only height limitation is that it MUST NOT overshadow the south bank of the Yarra and SHOULD NOT overshadow the north bank. In that location you would probably be looking at 250m before you oversahdow the North Bank of the Yarra and 300m before you overshadow the South Bank.

um where did u get those pictures? city of melburn?

[QUOTE=tayser]Or how would you calculate if it would overshadow? Any mathematicians out there? LOL ;)[QUOTE]

what time/date mister wolf? :tongue2:

http://afr.com/premium/articles/2004/06/02/1086058914120.html [Premium]

Boom's Effects Still Washing Out
Nicole Lindsay

Demand for new apartments in Melbourne's central city zone is expected to hold steady at about 1400 a year, but the city will continue to feel the effects of the apartment boom until about 2005, according to research from property analyst Charter Keck Cramer.

The estimated 1400 sales are less than half of the 3000 apartments a year sold off the plan during the five-year apartment boom between 1999 and 2003.

"Melbourne's apartment market has arguably been one of Australia's most maligned property segments over the past year [but it] will not implode as some suggest," Charter Keck Cramer managing director Scott Keck said.

"It is undeniable the market is experiencing a short-term correction a predictable outcome of overheated conditions in 2001-02."

But he suggested a sustainable balance between demand and supply would come into the market by 2005, when the supply of new stock started to wind down.

The research deals with the prime apartment area in Melbourne's CBD and surrounding suburbs of Southbank , St Kilda Road and Docklands.

Three huge city projects come to completion over the next two years: Australand's Freshwater Place and Grocon's Eureka Tower and apartments at the new QV development.

While some projects have been put on hold for instance, the controversial Cheesegrater in Fitzroy others are going ahead.

Becton's controversial Esplanade Hotel project is more than half sold and a $300 million , 60-storey residential development over the old Bunnings site in Bourke Street has just been mooted.

Mr Keck said owner-occupiers traditionally made up about 35 per cent of apartment buyers, speculative buyers 15 per cent , and long-term investors the remainder, but the boom had changed the dynamics.

Speculative buyers were responsible for about 35 per cent of sales in the peak periods and they would have to settle their commitments during a period of unprecedented media scrutiny, he said.

Some buyers were trying to get out of contracts most famously a group of Mirvac buyers using legal loopholes and alleging false and misleading representations by sales people.

Others are claiming the finished product is completely different from what they agreed to buy.

But despite the negativity in the market last year, Charter estimates there were still 1900 off-the-plan sales, which equalled the historic long-term annual average.

But the pace of development is slowing. The research shows developers marketed just 1500 apartments last year well down on the more than 4000 released in 2001 and 2002.

A growing number of apartments will be completed in coming years almost 3000 in 2004 and 3200 in 2005 as the marketed projects of earlier years are built out.

But at the end of last year there were still 1800 apartments unsold 1100 already under construction and 700 from marketed projects.

_______________

2005 ties in very nicely with this project. Sustainable: what we want!

"Sustainable: what we want!"






Exzachery, couldn't agree more!!

finally got around to taking a few (7 :D) pics around the whole half-block.

the reno / refurbed stage 1

http://www.thehoddlegrid.net/projects/renders/cbd/368lc/368littlecollinssite1.jpg

Westerly view along Bourke, 38 level "prudential" proposal on left

http://www.thehoddlegrid.net/projects/renders/cbd/368lc/368littlecollinssite2.jpg

the existing prudential building

http://www.thehoddlegrid.net/projects/renders/cbd/368lc/368littlecollinssite3.jpg

southerly vista along Queen Street standing opposite Prudential site

http://www.thehoddlegrid.net/projects/updates/southbank/eureka/eureka2307042.jpg

Easterly vista along Little collins, the plain brown facade 2 levels high is where the tower's podium will be (just behind the yoga sign)

http://www.thehoddlegrid.net/projects/renders/cbd/368lc/368littlecollinssite4.jpg

From the courtyard out the back of Wales House

http://www.thehoddlegrid.net/projects/renders/cbd/368lc/368littlecollinssite5.jpg

Ding ding - tower here :)

http://www.thehoddlegrid.net/projects/renders/cbd/368lc/368littlecollinssite6.jpg

I wouldn't mind living here,

http://www.realestate.com.au/objects/props/7068/102027068dl1100263723.jpg

although, this proposal will block a fair chunk of the northern light eh

http://www.realestate.com.au/objects/props/7068/102027068ml1100263723.jpg

:banana:

I was suprised when I stumbled on that square one day... great spot for some ANZHQ navel gazing. :yes:

yep, same, you get a mini-glimpse of it from Bourke Street, but other than walking down Little collins Street, you wouldn't know it's there. Still though, it looks to be used primarily by the bankers (Westpac and ANZ) and that's about it - I hope they never develop it either, this development might enhance it with its retail component directly opposite.

The Westpac Plaza is fully used by a number of office staff from around that area inclduing Optus. Westpac, ANZ etc. Its only been recently redeveloped and so I don't think we will see a development on this site for some time.

Is this proposal even still floating? I haven't heard any word in so long....

Stu

it's because it won 't be going to market for a while (read the first few pages :))

Somebody brought up a good point earlier. Docklands and Southbank suffer from over-supply while the CBD is still a comparitavly small market. What have the returns been like in developments such as republic tower (which i might add is one of my favourite buildings, love the top few floors).

Anyway this proposal sounds good, however can someone repost a render of it, all of the previous ones have expired. I have seen the drawing of it on skyscraperpage and all i can say is that i certaintly hope it is not those colours. But i do hope it is built and i can't wait to see the density of the west end in a few years time, i see real potential with the power station, age site, batmans hill and comtechport. It already looks amazingly dense especially from the north west, can't wait to see some of these proposals take shape during the next cycle.

And speaking of oversupply, Lozza i see your apartment is still listed on the real-estate websites. Are you one of the many finding tenants a scarce commoditiy?

You would think that actually living right in the heart of the CBD would have enormous appeal to some people so I think these apartments should be easy to sell.

Idle, 21 : Firstly, Docklands isn't suffering from over supply ! If you did your research , you would find that people are lining up to live at Docklands . For example , New Quay has an occupancy rate of 98 % Unfortunately, Docklands gets caught up in the negative hype of Melbourne Apartments in general. What is said about apartments in Melbourne isn't a true reflection on Docklands

As for my apartment, my property manager said that there is a shortage of 1 bedroom apartments and there won't be an issue finding a tenant. The 2 bedders are renting a bit slower , but they are still ok.

Cheers

Lozza

I was under the impression that all the apartments in docklands are selling well, but not enough people are occupying. Many are only buying for an investment and renting them out, band there is over supply in this section of the market. I may be wrong?

And won't the market just get even tougher to find occupiers in the next two years with Conder, Dock 5, Vic Point, Village docklands and some waterfront city apartments?

And if docklands doesn't suffer from oversupply, does the CBD? I would imagine not, thus making this tower profitable :)

I know 6 months ago the vacancy rate of the entire Docklands project was only 7%, which is fairly standard around Melbourne at the moment since its such a renters market currently.

The whole thing is a bit of a beat up really, with the average increase in population plus the average % that wish to live within 2km of the CDB, they actually can't build the apartments quick enough to supply the demand. Only this financial year with so many developments getting completed are the numbers about level.

According the the REIV vacancy rates of new inner-city apartments (CBD, Docklands, St Kilda Rd and Southbank) have fallen from 8.7% in June 2003 to 6.5% in September 2004.

With some much supply coming onto the market at the same time of course it going to take a while for the market to settle down. No problem in the long term though.

So why have inner city apartments been getting such a bad rap in the media?

Gday ,

Yes, Docklands gets a "Bad Wrap" because "Tossers" in the Media like dramatising and over exaggerating, and also , bad stories sell newspapers. I had a mate of mine come and see my apartment this weekend. He couldn't believe how nice it was ! He said that he would live in it, no questions about it.

The location, view, ammeninties, close proximity to everything , and the care free, easy lifestyle is what people want, and docklands will be all that and more in 5 years time believe me !

Cheers

Lozza :bowtie:

AFR: 'the sky is falling, the sky is falling!!!!' :)

I'll agree with Lozza.... I cant find a decent 1 or 2 bedder in Tower 1 of Yarra's Edge :(

You can keep the other towers...Tower 1, city side, is where its at. :D

I've taken to looking up the database @ work (i'm a valuer) and stalking property managers of apartments that i can see are coming up for end of lease :D

Might even end up back in the apartment next to my old one in The Philadelphia building. 2 storey, 2 bathroom 1 bedder (converted 2 bedder to one huge bedroom on the 2nd storey!)

*fingers crossed*

Might even end up back in the apartment next to my old one in The Philadelphia building. 2 storey, 2 bathroom 1 bedder (converted 2 bedder to one huge bedroom on the 2nd storey!)
Sounds like a boudoir.

Sorry to be annoying but for some very strange reason I can't see any pics of this proposal at all! Can someone please post one? Thanks!

ah, they were hosted on my old webhost.

voila.

http://thehoddlegrid.net/projects/renders/cbd/368lc/bunnings_1.JPG

http://thehoddlegrid.net/projects/renders/cbd/368lc/bunnings_2.JPG

I think silvermb's got better versions.

The podium bit reminds me of Eureka, with orange with the boxes... but not as good :P

Thanks for that! Hmmmm interesting design, especially when you take into account the tiny area they have to build on. It could look quite impressive in the flesh. Let's hope it gets built.

Drunk: well it is an FK ;)

next meet at lozzaaaaaaaaasssssssss.... :)

Idle, 21 : Firstly, Docklands isn't suffering from over supply ! If you did your research , you would find that people are lining up to live at Docklands . For example , New Quay has an occupancy rate of 98 % Unfortunately, Docklands gets caught up in the negative hype of Melbourne Apartments in general. What is said about apartments in Melbourne isn't a true reflection on Docklands

As for my apartment, my property manager said that there is a shortage of 1 bedroom apartments and there won't be an issue finding a tenant. The 2 bedders are renting a bit slower , but they are still ok.

Cheers

Lozza

So what if there is an oversupply in Docklands (ref; Charter Keck Cramer, ANZ et al) that doesnt mean you have made the wrong buy decision, you just hang out longer thats all. Oversupply just means you have to be a little more patient than you otherwise would be to realise a favouable price. I.e Years ago I paid 620 for a place in Carlton that I was told was worth 575. I shit myself that Id paid too much but I waited out the financial Tsunami and now Im glad I did. I thought Id paid too much, but now almost 4 yrs later its worth about a mil. The other thing Ive learnt to do is not believe real estate agents or property managers, theyll tell you anything to give you a rosy picture, just look at the the hard cold facts. Experience counts for everything words do not.

The other thing that has occurred to me is that if there is no oversupply (contrary to what the analysts say) and the market is healthy and there is plenty of demand how come we havent seen any other of the proposed towers being built. Lets face facts here not emotions. Thats how people loose money.

Any news on this site?

hohoho

prelim demolition has commenced on stage one and Hansen Yuncken signs up so construction has begun. time will tell whether they start the footings for the tower now but considering stage one forms an integral part of the Cosmopolitan building (including a new core at rear) its a fair chance.

http://silvermb.thehoddlegrid.net/cosplan.jpg

http://silvermb.thehoddlegrid.net/cosmodel.jpg

^great! so that means its approved eh? haven't heard news about it for ages! nice models too. is that what colour it'll be?

Hansen Yuncken are only going ahead with Stage 1 at this stage. However, Stage 1 will include the footings and the rock anchors for the tower of Stage 2 if the tower goes ahead in the future.

^oh, i get now. thanks. hope it does get approved :)

I was in a meeting with MCC and DSE and they referred to the bunnings tower as having had been approved.

So I figured it would go ahead if it had money and occupants.

bring it. on.

who wants to have a crack at rendering it in this pic (uewepue)?

http://melbournephotos.net/pics/2003-07-25%20Melbourne%20-%20Ozscraper%20meet,%20Southbank%20and%20IBM%20tower/IMG_2470.jpg

;)

because its going to be a big fella, i always like to know its schedule, so i contacted a guy i know at Fender/Kastilidis and he told me this>
The retail podium will be completed early 2007. The marketing for the unit tower will be put to the test next year and the developer will see how sales progress. If it looks like achieving 60% pre committments, the tower will start late 2007 with completion 2009.Thats earliest it will be completed. It basically depends on the property market over next few years.

just to repost heights again-
height to main roof-191m
height to plantroom-197m
height to LMR-200m
add 10m for RLs.
The nearby RL;s are ANZ-177m. 385 Bourke st-176m.
The tower is so thin at 27m wide (30m with balcs).

cheers

Another one that is waiting for the lead up to the Commonweath Games to go to market, hopefully there will be lots of tourists looking for an investment apartment hehehe

I dont think its that easy for tourists to buy on the aussie property markets. Apparently you need to be an Australian citizen, otherwise for big time investors who aren't citizens the purchase has to be approved by the treasurer himself... don't quote me on that though because I don't know exact details, simply going by what a housing policy expert replied when I asked about investing in overseas real estate.

We have at least 2 (?) London-based CE investors on this board - I don't think they're Australian citizens?

There's no restriction on selling off-plan or new, never occupied units to non-residents. CE do this all the time. The only restriction is that a maximum of 50% can be sold to non Australians. Check out http://www.australia-migration.com/page/Foreign_Investors_Buying_property_as_a_foreigner_or_Temporary_Resident_in_Australia/178 for the rules

cheers for that, looks like I learnt something new... very interesting!!

BRING IT ON ! Great building for a great location. Reminds me of that tower in Hong Kong with the blocky facade ??

heres a scale elevation with actual bldg RL's, just for height comparison for rendering.

http://img10.echo.cx/img10/6443/368collins3ql.jpg
tays pic

http://img251.echo.cx/img251/2606/melbview368colli3sb.jpg

^ So it's a fairly small floorplate? Looks rather slender.

It's gotta happen, along with Prima. We won't take no for an answer.

If they're going ahead with the foundation work in Stage 1, it would only be a big plus in the developer's decision making. Just be more like a question of when and not if.

The floor plate is only 27mx27m.
yes the word is WHEN not if. the FK architect said earliest completion of tower would be 2009 but probably later in reality. A 200m bldg is worth waiting for.im not sure if its a good spot for a resi tower? only top 20 floors would hav views. the lower 40 are looking at walls.(with exception of north face).

The floor plate is only 27mx27m.Well, that's another (huge) plus in this case.

Due to the fact that there will be fewer aparments in the whole building rather than one of the same height with a much larger floorplates, thus bringing down the number of apartments for pre-commitments to reach the decision making % quota for forging ahead with construction (Phew! That was loaded).

Plus Melbourne gets a sleeker tower :)

Clever diagram BTW CULWULLA. Gold star for you today sunny-jim ;)

the FK architect said earliest completion of tower would be 2009 but probably later in reality. A 200m bldg is worth waiting for.

Patience is certainly a useful virtue when following construction. I wish I had more of it.

I really like this tower. Design looks so 'clean', plus it violates that rule my Mum always told me when I was a kid - blue and green should never be seen without a colour in between.

SSP diagram
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v376/Oriolus/368LtCollins.jpg

^ gee, Duff needs to redo that diagram asap.

Really? All I notice is that the setbacks up the top are missing - anything else wrong with it.

Hmm just realised that when this and Prima are done, Melbourne's top 10 will all be at or over 200m. Hurray!

Really? All I notice is that the setbacks up the top are missing - anything else wrong with it.
1.the podium is missing
2.tower is to wide at 38m,should be 27m
3. tower is missing plantrooms
4. tower should be 191m,2nd plantroom-197m, lmr-200m

cheers

It doesn't need to be said, as it's just common knowledge, but you rock Cul.

:rock:

WEEE! look at the height of that mofo!!

^ He does. Always good to say that anywho.

...

^ gee, Duff needs to redo that diagram asap.

hey... no one provided me with a picture of the model when i was doing it :p, i had to do it from memory of what i saw in the papers

^hey thats cool. you done ok. you now have heaps of info to go one. now get to work! lol

It doesn't need to be said, as it's just common knowledge, but you rock Cul.

Hell yeh. As opposed to me who failed to even notice that the podium was missing :)

>>399 Bourke Street

Client: 83 East Pty Ltd
Value at Completion: $47 million

Project Description:This project involves the redevelopment of the old McEwans building in Bourke Street Melbourne. It consists of the major demolition of most of the existing building and the construction of 92 apartments with a 7,600 sqm retail development at basement and ground floor level. The project also has a 12,500 sqm multi level carpark.

Completion Date: February 2007

i guess they're hoping enough pre-sales next year means construction of tower there after feb 2007. a more sympathetic podium along lt Collins, the older podium design was a little too full on.

http://www.hansenyuncken.com.au/files/399%20Bourke%20St%20facade%2001%2072.jpg

I wonder if the design of the tower has changed at all because it looks like the podium has had a complete redesign. Last I heard the Cosmopolitan on Bourke apartments were scheduled to be completed by July 2006

If anything, the new podium is more complimentary to the tower design than the old one - they were two different styles altogether. I just hope the tower's height hasn't changed too...

Gave the proposed building my own shot.

Don't stress out about too many details! Still a proposal but I think I got Cul's dimensions correct:

http://www.users.bigpond.com/stclair2/cossup.gif

Cheers,

Adam

excellent adam! done well. such a slim tower.
all its needs is a spire and you got mini ESB. ;-)
cheers

Thanks, mate.
EDIT: Actually, it was reminding me of the Singer Tower!
Yes, um, a spire. How I love 'em!

Cheers,

Adam

yehh that building would rock with a nice spire.. would fit in nicely with the collins' spires

All gone.

http://img377.imageshack.us/img377/9246/cosmoonbourke2yx.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Seems like a Kamakazi took out the building! :p

first time back working in town and low and behold this site gave me a nice surprise today ;)

Couple of months too late but here it is anyway tays.

http://img367.imageshack.us/img367/3683/cosmophotoshoppedcopy7bi.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Bring it.

on.

Bitch.

Farken great work ARCHIBOMBER this is one tower I like. 2008 cycle I'm guessing?

no-one other than the developer knows.

...still drooling over that render archi, the old Financial district would have a very nice collection of talls if this and something decent (:D) went ahead on the prudential site anytime soon :D

So, I guess it's too much to hope that all the excavation stuff that's been happening on this site means an early start to it..?

they're doing the first stage - redeveloping the old Bunnings, more retail, car parking for the whole site and the heritage building fronting Bourke Street. The little Collins tower is 2nd (or 3rd stage if you think of the heritage building as stage #2) stage.

no-one other than the developer knows.

...still drooling over that render archi, the old Financial district would have a very nice collection of talls if this and something decent (:D) went ahead on the prudential site anytime soon :D

Yes tays it would be great if something decent went on the Prudential site anytime soon wouldn't it. :D Back to Cosmo, I'm interested to see if the podium'll have a core sticking out of it or how they go about building the tower should it go ahead.

the most anticipated hole in the ground ever? by mid feb should know if a massive core pit is present for a 200m tower or just a mini for a 7 level podium building minus any tower above . . it'll give me the shits waiting

From yesterday the beginnings of a crane. Also there was some guy (with a moustache) having a long chat with the workers on site.

http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/1790/368lcollinssite1un.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Does that mean No Massive Core Pit ? Or still to Early ? :)

so looks like stage 1 is about to start
which is the Mckenan bldg refurb and retail section.these are set for completion in 2007.
the resi tower will be put to markt in 2007 and if and when it achieves 60% sales it will start up thus completion date at earliest is 2009.
goodo

So, I guess it's too much to hope that all the excavation stuff that's been happening on this site means an early start to it..?

maybe...

http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/1790/368lcollinssite1un.jpg

beginning of a core already poured around the crane base with the reo for the core poking skywards right where the towers core should be. too large for a seven level podium (would have been a tilt-up core) but too small for a 200m tower i reckon, seems smaller than that of milano or neo core. having said that you only get a crane coming through the core unless its a biggie and the site works have stuck to the plans so wait and see?

http://silvermb.thehoddlegrid.net/368plan.jpg

spewing if its been scaled down?

Isn't it traditional for NK to build the carpark under the tower a few years before the tower itself starts?
Like Argus..

What's a tilt up core? Is that where they just get pre-cast slabs of concrete and knock up a core? Just guessing here but maybe the core isn't as big as one would expect for a 200m tower because the tower's a 27m by 27m, 200m box and the core's in the dead centre. :dunno: Still wonder though if we'll have a podium with a core sticking out of it for a while.

tilt-up is pre-cast > Digital Harbour. Archi i hope you're right, maybe the 18 level podium provides the strenght rather than a massive core

I stopped today and asked a construction worker on site what they were building and he said a 63 storey apartment tower. I asked if they were building the whole thing now or just the podium and he said he thought it was just the podium at this stage, but wasn't sure. Fingers crossed.

for what its worth.
spoke to hansen yuncken & Donnelly group today and they basically said the current contract was for the structure up to 6 levels above lt collin st. (the blue bit on elevation posted by silvermb). Donnelly group said they will put the tower to the market next year and see how it goes. once 60% sales are achieved the tower will commence. I asked him what his thoughts were and he said could start 2008 earliest or later depending on markets.
cheers

Thanks Cul, everything going to plan.

core formation. good to see nevil has got out of crime and into construction. ahhh chopper, remember what the f stands for?

http://silvermb.thehoddlegrid.net/cos200602.jpg

Crane going up today...

http://static.flickr.com/29/98138657_f350bf5104_o.jpg

Its alive, Alive muhahaahahahaha. I like this tower sure to add dimension to the skyline.

P.

2nd crane has gone up, on the back of the McEwen's building. Sorry no photos. :(

Here are some photos showing the two cranes.

http://img71.imageshack.us/img71/1073/cosmocranes9yh.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img71.imageshack.us/img71/6954/cosmocranes20dt.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Guys adding finishing touches to the display suite next door. The only rendering I could see of the podium, which they seem to have named 'The Foundry' looks slightly different to the one silvermb posted a while ago, may have just been a different angle.

There's a pretty big core going up here...definately too big just for the podium, so fingers crossed this tower will eventually get up.

This site's an absolute bitch to get a decent shot of...

http://static.flickr.com/46/125033099_5ba0d9c69e_o.jpg

http://static.flickr.com/46/125033098_31409c7ba4_o.jpg

Yeah is a bitch to get shot especially with that green mesh along the fence. You got that JCB addition to that McKillop St. building looks pretty decent, alot like the renders.

yesterday

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c73/velco/cos23.jpg

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c73/velco/cos22.jpg

Surely they wil be tempted to just keep building that core until they hit 200m??? :-)

This tower is sort of a huge and sweet surprise for me....
I just knew it last 2 months ago and I walk through the site each day for lunch break

I just can not wait for it to be completed

The designed - slinky and sexy
the colour - bright and fresh
the height - taller than its neighbours !

WIll be great addition to Melbourne central ...

I am sooo glad !

back at it after well deserved 12 days

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c73/velco/cos4_6.jpg

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c73/velco/cos4_2.jpg

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c73/velco/cos4_1.jpg

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c73/velco/cos4_5.jpg

http://www.thecollectormm.com.au/private/Danks1.jpg

Above, John Danks & Son Pty. Ltd.,ready for the Royal Visit in 1954.
Later to become McEwan’s then Bunnings and now being converted into the Cos on Bourke apartments.

I had an estate agent come into my shop on Friday afternoon, with plans of the shopping centre below. I was given a presentation folder but of course my scanner is broken.
I can say there will be 40 shops.
He seemed confident that the tower will be built but only after the shops are completed. They believe the shops will be completed by the end of the year.
I'll bring the folder home on Monday and photograph all the pics.

I had an estate agent come into my shop on Friday afternoon, with plans of the shopping centre below. I was given a presentation folder but of course my scanner is broken.
I can say there will be 40 shops.
He seemed confident that the tower will be built but only after the shops are completed. They believe the shops will be completed by the end of the year.
I'll bring the folder home on Monday and photograph all the pics.
Of course the tower will be built, but thats stage 2. this is stage 1 contract. Stage 2 (tower) will start when they sell 60% of units.Could start as early as 2008 or many years down the track, all depending on the resi markets.
should be a fine addition to this end of town.

Couple from today.

http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/4401/pic00016hv.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img238.imageshack.us/img238/7315/pic00024xp.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

whatever happened to those plans Erektion??

this site's wrapped up like a christmas present, a long wait until the mesh comes down for a decent pic

http://home.iprimus.com.au/revlis81/cos200606.jpg

Looks like it'll have different coloured glass like Yve's foyer.

with galleria, equitable place, mckillop, and now the foundry extending the life up ltcollins up to queen st, council is considering making it a complete pedestrian zone certain times of the day / week.

they are up to level 2 now..

ltcollins up to queen st, council is considering making it a complete pedestrian zone certain times of the day / week.They're doing this on the stretch between Swanston and Elizabeth, but most pedestrians don't seem to notice it most of the time and still stick to the footpath. Which is fine by me when I get the whole middle of the street to myself :)

I'm very sorry....but that render looks disgusting.
I'm all for retro irony and all that...but this is just plain 1960's pastiche. It looks dated before it's even out of the ground.
I hope to god the tower that rises above it is better than that podium!

I like it :runaway:

Stu

Hey here are those pics I promised a while back. Finally had some time... not the best quality but you get the jist...
http://img92.imageshack.us/img92/480/foundry7fg.jpg

http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/9086/foundry14hj.jpg

http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/9049/foundry27km.jpg

Haven't had an update for a while, and can barely see a thing from ground level. Anyone here work in the Westpac/Commbank/ANZ towers?

http://static.flickr.com/69/175348772_abe03ac108_o.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/mugley/175348772/)

im confused, from what i understand their building a podium for now and will consider whether to build a tower on top, or the tower will go up regardless?

Well my understanding is that there is a tower proposed however they are building the podium as a stand alone project and then will only put the tower on top once 60% or something on the apartments have been sold. In order to do this the podium has to be built to be able to take a tower on top should it go ahead. As such it has the large core and other features of a high rise podium.

Having said that though I would say it is practically inevitable that the tower will go on top it's just a matter of when.

I work quite high up in the Westpac building. Here's a (slightly blurry) pic taken with my camera phone.

If I think to bring in my real camera I'll upload a better pic for you guys. :)

http://miles.4bitterguys.com/pics/cosonbourke/cosonbourke.jpg

Thanks mech - that's exactly the view we needed (and a great first post).

Looking forward to more.

Not sure if I like this building. hmmm. Its alright. like the podium building thingy

The site looks so much larger looking at it from that angle. Great photo thanks mech.

Well my understanding is that there is a tower proposed however they are building the podium as a stand alone project and then will only put the tower on top once 60% or something on the apartments have been sold. In order to do this the podium has to be built to be able to take a tower on top should it go ahead. As such it has the large core and other features of a high rise podium.

Having said that though I would say it is practically inevitable that the tower will go on top it's just a matter of when.

thanks for that tyson, have you any idea if the apartments gone on sale yet? if so how many have sold thus far?

I believe they are on sale. There is a sales office right next door on Little Collins towards Elizabeth. I have never actually gone in there because each time i have passed it doesn't ever look like it's open. No idea how many they have sold, i'll try go past their office again next time I'm in that part of town.

Click here (http://miles.4bitterguys.com/pics/cosonbourke/cosonbourke2.jpg) for a much larger pic of the site. Sorry about the blurriness again - our windows are incredibly dusty here and I just couldn't seem to get a good pic. If I get something better, I'll post it. :) Pic's ~ 720kb.

The 3.2 meg original version is here (http://miles.4bitterguys.com/pics/cosonbourke/IMG_1859.JPG).

Cool mech! *saves pic in personal files* ;)

Well my understanding is that there is a tower proposed however they are building the podium as a stand alone project and then will only put the tower on top once 60% or something on the apartments have been sold. In order to do this the podium has to be built to be able to take a tower on top should it go ahead. As such it has the large core and other features of a high rise podium.

Having said that though I would say it is practically inevitable that the tower will go on top it's just a matter of when."it's just a matter of when" - Exactly!

When I spoke with Hansen Yuncken in May last year, I was told Stage 1 ie The Foundary will include the footings and the rock anchors in the foundations for the tower of Stage 2 for when it goes ahead. Surely appropriate load bearers are being constructed within The Foundary too. If they weren't do so, it would be impossible to build the tower, naturally.

The tower's core itself will also carry some of the weight as they do in any scraper, due to a lot of the force being centralised & also the reinforced floorplates joining onto it from the outer beams and if any are located in between. Load bearing is shared both vertically & horizontally - derrr.

Most, if not all the walls in the main tower component's apartments will be of lightweight material/s too, so as to halt it sinking *too* much (remember, Eureka is expected to eventually sink about 30cm). There are certainly more walls in apartment & hotel scrapers, rather than mostly open planned 'n partitioned net floor space of many modern office scrapers.

Culwulla has mentioned that the biggy's footprint will only be 27m x 27m, so a slender tower @ 729 sqm gross including the facade, per floor. The floors that include the jutting out sections will hold slightly more though.The top soil and bedrock are I believe "tougher" in the area than say that of where The Big E is located.

So all matters combined including the mathematics of the tower's superstructure, as a guestimate it shouldn't sink more than 5-10cm @ the very most. Anywho, the one & only fabulous Hansen Yuncken do not get things wrong - 140 William Street is definitely here to stay for an eternity, thank The Gods.

As a reminder, silvermb posted an elevation and the model on page 6 of this intertwined development. The diagram indicates the vertical loadbearers, floorplates and relatively shallow foundations, even though the pilings for the tower are going much deeper: Look-See Part 1 (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=104583&page=6&pp=20)

I luuuurve Archibald's PhotoShopping of the tower on the early eve midtown skyline using Dan-bo's pic:
Look-See Part 2 (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=104583&page=7&pp=20)

...

Muse, since I assume they are constructing the podium in anticipation of a massive weight on top sometime in the future would it require any special engineering tricks?

I heard once that the north tower of the Rialto was specially engineered during construction such that its apparent weight or mass is the same as the larger south tower. I forget why this was, maybe something to do with sway or the effect on the foundations or podium? All I remember is some text saying something like the north tower 'thinks' its larger than it actually is.

I wouldn't expect the same thing but could the Foundary podium be specially constructed such that adding several thousand tonnes or whatever on top will not have much effect?

Well it would be designed to sink once that weight is placed upon it.

As the MC building (Mr Robot) can support a 88 story tower, so in the future they could take off a few levels and build it taller.
Same thing here, build the foundations for a skyscraper and then just leave them untill it's time to build it. It's normall really just pausing construction.

anyone know any update for the tower ?
grol / Cul.... u are in the know ?

After the first stage is completed the developers will most likely start marketing the tower. Now the first stage is due to be completed in Feb 2007 so we'll find out sometime in the next 6 months. I'm pretty sure it's been mentioned a couple of times in the thread. You've got to be patient with projects like Prima & 368LC, these projects will eventually happen.

After the first stage is completed the developers will most likely start marketing the tower. Now the first stage is due to be completed in Feb 2007 so we'll find out sometime in the next 6 months. I'm pretty sure it's been mentioned a couple of times in the thread. You've got to be patient with projects like Prima & 368LC, these projects will eventually happen.

thank arch ...
yes.. be patient.. i keep telling myself....

After the first stage is completed the developers will most likely start marketing the tower. Now the first stage is due to be completed in Feb 2007 so we'll find out sometime in the next 6 months. I'm pretty sure it's been mentioned a couple of times in the thread. You've got to be patient with projects like Prima & 368LC, these projects will eventually happen.


so we could say these towers along with others will most likely go up during the next cycle in a few years?

i might add this to monthly diagrams even though tower is a few years away.

Some more renders mainly of the interior. The interior totally surprised me had no idea it would be like that.

http://img292.imageshack.us/img292/2291/foundryma6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)http://img226.imageshack.us/img226/7929/foundryinteriorez3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)http://img123.imageshack.us/img123/7486/foundryinterioriioj6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Oh my God! Its another shopping centre!!! Noooooooo

a very busy one at that...

Podium on Little Collins Street side has reached full height and first lot of mullions have been installed on the first floor so we should see some of that coloured glass pretty soon. Nearly there.

http://users.bigpond.net.au/dasa/ssc/cos-26102006.jpg

Champion! Is that the core I see poking out of the top of 368?

is that the 13storey unit block as part of cos on bourke? this is on emporis but listed as approved. should be uc?

the tower crane is inside the northwest corner of the main core. theres two smaller cores that'll service the podium

The podium is looking great, much better than the renderings. The heavy features and patterned concrete is similar to Republic Tower.

I hope they leave it the way it is now and not paint it.

I keep saying it. How on Earth can there be SOOOO much high-rise apartment demand? There must be A LOT of empty houses in the suburbs.

Where do all the tenants come from? I just can't see how this trend of high-rise living can go on for much longer and I fear there will be a lot of empty skyscrapers around.

a significant portion is fuelled by international investors.

And rented to students or used as serviced apartments.

just like the renders
http://img292.imageshack.us/img292/2291/foundryma6.jpg

http://silvermb.thehoddlegrid.net/cos2006nov.jpg

There are a number of singles and couples moving out of family homes and leaving other adults behind, that is where some of the demand is. There are also a number of people moving into Melbourne from regional Victoria and interstate.

There are a number of singles and couples moving out of family homes and leaving other adults behind, that is where some of the demand is. There are also a number of people moving into Melbourne from regional Victoria and interstate.

Do you think they are moving from regional Vic because of the drought?

The render gives the impression of coloured glass. This is why I hate renders.

I keep saying it. How on Earth can there be SOOOO much high-rise apartment demand? There must be A LOT of empty houses in the suburbs.

Where do all the tenants come from? I just can't see how this trend of high-rise living can go on for much longer and I fear there will be a lot of empty skyscrapers around.
there actually isnt a demand atm. the tower component of Cos on bourke is years away.Only smaller resi projects are being developed atm.office demand is stronger atm.

There is a demand at the moment and a shortage of residential properties in inner Melbourne with a rental vacancy rate of 1% for inner Melbourne and apartment prices rising faster than house prices.

That is why projects like Lucient, Balencea and Vue Grand are selling so fast and many developers are currently dusting off old plans and preparing new plans for apartment towers across inner Melbourne.

Just a guess but I think that the Cos on Bourke tower will be underway within the next 18 months. I expect it will be on sale soon if it isn't already and I think inner city apartment buyers are less affected by interest rates than suburban home buyers. The main competition for this tower would be Prima I suppose so they both might have similar timing to market.

There is a demand at the moment and a shortage of residential properties in inner Melbourne with a rental vacancy rate of 1% for inner Melbourne and apartment prices rising faster than house prices.

That is why projects like Lucient, Balencea and Vue Grand are selling so fast and many developers are currently dusting off old plans and preparing new plans for apartment towers across inner Melbourne.

Yes, Grollo, you are right. Demand in the inner city for apartments is quite high at the moment, hence why Northbank has been 100% sold and why the South Yarra CBD is booming.

any action on this site? is crane still there? i was updating diagrams. is the 13storey on collins st now going to be 7? anything appreciate.
cheers

Not much has changed - the scaffold & cheap tin roof-like thing is still there. (arunava's pic)

____________

When/if our 207m friendly giant starts cranking, I'm going to attempt a uewepuep-like webcam setup owing the bird's eye I've got when I turn around at my desk.

Taking submissions for unwanted cameras now :D

nothing to see here, move along...

http://thehoddlegrid.net/dump/smokeyoffice1.jpg

nothing to see here, move along...

http://thehoddlegrid.net/dump/smokeyoffice1.jpg^^ What is the funky green panelled extention atop of an older building in the bottom of the left-hand corner of the pic above? Anyone know? Excuse my ignorance in this respect.

...

Emerald Apartments although it's a mixed use building with boutique apartments and strata offices. It's by Jackson Clements Burrows who are my kind of firm what with all the colour and what not (if I can't eventually get a job at FKA or Wood Marsh, JCB are next on my list). They employed a similar facade for a house in Richmond. Check out their site: http://www.jcba.com.au/

^^ Thanks Archibald. Just checked the jcba website and sure enough Emerald Apartments and the house in Richmond with the similar facade which were indeed on the jcba website :okay:

Just as I had foreseen...

http://www.rdearnley.supanet.com/darth-vader.jpg

BTW I just checked Emporis, and Emerald Apartments wasn't on its website. Certainly looks high enough to warrant it be there.

Update:

http://img111.imageshack.us/img111/8662/pic0007wh3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

wee update: can see though from Bourke St into the new retail development (still fenced off) now and there's been lots more activity up top the past week or two.

cmon 368LC.

Lots more activity up top in what way?

work on the roof on top of the refurb - look back a page, that's my office view.

I think the retail part will be open very shortly. Looks like the main thing to do is the shop fit outs

But the shopping sounds great :cheers:

Foundry boosts booming CBD
Email Print Normal font Large font Michelle Draper
April 18, 2007

Other related coverage
Demand for space is right up Melbourne's alley
CBD office rents tipped to soar
Advertisement
AdvertisementAN IGA supermarket will open in the CBD's newest shops and residential development, The Foundry. The retailer will occupy 2000 square metres at the Donnelly Group's $155 million redevelopment at 399 Bourke and 368 Little Collins streets.

It is believed leases are being finalised for most of the 40 shops in the retail development at the site, which incorporates the original Bourke Street McEwan's building and is due to open in June.

Fitzroys director Rick Berry said The Foundry and the existing Galleria shopping centre would strengthen retail in Little Collins Street between Elizabeth and Queen streets.

Rents for shops in Little Collins Street were between $1000 and $2500 a sq m, but reached $3500 between Elizabeth and Swanston streets, Mr Berry said.

He said more laneways were being rejuvenated with retail development.

Madame Brussels Lane at the Urban Workshop office building would be a shopping area, while Cbus Property's CBW office tower development would return shops to Goldsborough Lane.

But he cautioned landlords that creating a new laneway, while achievable, required patience.

On the other hand, the city's laneways offered an affordable entry point and smaller spaces favoured by some retailers.

Mr Berry said one-off retailers that had taken advantage of lower entry prices in laneway shops had given the CBD its new feel.

"At this stage, there does not seem to be a drop off in the number of retailers keen to give the city a go," he said.

Mr Berry said there had also been an explosion in the number of shops on the ground floors of new and refurbished office buildings, spearheaded by food and drink outlets.

He said traditional CBD shopping areas were expanding, with developments springing up next to the CBD.

At Docklands, Merchant Street at Victoria Harbour is set to become a shopping strip with 40 shops and a Safeway supermarket. A 40,000 sq m retail development, Harbour Town, is also under way at Waterfront City.

Mr Berry said Southbank residential and office developments and the new convention centre would draw more residents, office workers and visitors to shop in the area.

He said the proximity of the St Kilda Road arts precinct and sports arenas to the CBD also affected city shopping areas.

Federation Square, Flinders Street Station and Southern Cross Station, including Spencer Street DFO, also contributed.

The overall result was that the CBD was becoming surrounded by major facilities appealing to metropolitan, national and international visitors, he said.

He said traditional shopping strips such as Errol Street, Brunswick Street, Swan Street, Bridge Road and Clarendon Street were all potentially becoming linked to an expanded CBD retail area:cheers:

thank flapjacks it's not another cancer-like IGA express.

From todays AFR:

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/208/492123942_b76eac1aa6_b.jpg

Good to see that there is still some steam in the tower proposal.

permit for a 60story tower, awesome.

^ psst: look at the first few pages of this thread ;)

edit: I'll repost the renders when I leave work.

I don't see how they could build an office tower unless they demolished part of the shopping centre they just built because there just isn't room for the lifts or a lobby.

And wouldn't it have really small floorplates? a 25,000sqm office tower on that site would be almost 40 storeys tall.

aw piss.

I don't have the render anymore.

What sort of floor plates does the proposed apartments have now? Even if they gain approval for an office tower it seems a bit ad hoc to me. All the traffic engineering and provided services etc are probably all geared towards an apartment building. I fon't think would have enough lift shafts in place and the lifts they were designed for are could be smaller than those of a typical office tower. I'm expecting when a tower goes it will be the resi one. The office approval is possibly just so they can extract a higher price from the sale.

Yeah 60 floors in this location would help density in CBD but don't forget residential would mean lower ceiling heights so it may not end up much higher than the Comm. Bank?

25m x 25m x 200m are the dimenstions, read the first three pages of this thread, we go into it at great length and at the same time we also go into the value of having people on the ground looking at planning applications with their own eyes :)

tayser thats a good idea??? I know much info must preceed current page but you know how it is looking from thread to thread !!! :)

There's also a render I did on one of the pages.

EDIT: Here it is.

http://img367.imageshack.us/img367/3683/cosmophotoshoppedcopy7bi.jpg

^^ Isn't that 368 Little Collins St?

this is good news

what is it with the office tower 25000 sq m - is it different tower or incoporated with the resi?

^^ shit that's tall! cheeers :cheers: