As I know until Mid of Ninties the only railway owned by the national Danish rail company, which runs electrically were the suburb trains of Copenhague. Then electrification with AC 25 kV 50 Hz started, although AC 15 kV 16.667 Hz would have been better as it would have allowed electric trains to run from Narvik to Domodossola. What other train systems in Denmark run electrically? Are or were there privately owned railway companies in Denmark operating electrified railways? Are or were there in Denmark electric train systems only for cargo transport e.g. in quarries?
Which Danish towns still operate a tramway system?

As far as I know only the part of the "main line" from Copenhagen to Fredericia and south towards the border is electrified. There are (and has been) plans in many years to do the same north towards Århus/Aalborg and also west towards Esbjerg I think, but until now nothing has happend. Some of the other forumers probably know more about this.

There's no tramlines in Denmark right now, but they're planning on in Århus. There has also been some talk about one in Odense, not sure how serious that is. Both Copenhagen and Århus used to have tram systems, but they were closed many years ago. Think that's the only two cities, althoug not sure.

Here´s is the present electrificated main lines in Denmark. In connection with the new trainline south around Esbjerg, the line between Lunderskov and Esbjerg C will be electric, according to local news.

http://img697.imageshack.us/img697/5180/esela.jpg (http://img697.imageshack.us/i/esela.jpg/)

:)

There also used to be trams in Odense (from 1911 - 1952)
Århus (from 1884-1971)
Copenhagen (from 1863 - 1972)

According to wiki (http://da.wikipedia.org/wiki/Letbane#.C3.85rhus) the plans in Århus are for a lightrail network. Same goes for Odense and a ring 3 around Copenhagen.

But why are there so few electrically operated railway lines in Denmark? Are there no electrical operated industrial railways in Denmark?

Because the rail network is outdated. Don't know what you mean by industrial railways?

But why are there so few electrically operated railway lines in Denmark? Are there no electrical operated industrial railways in Denmark?

What's wrong with diesel powered trains?

..

@ØlandDK: An industrial railway is a railway only used for good transport of a certain company. In Germany these are the railways used by mining companies, e.g. for transporting lignite to power plants. Such railways can be also found in quarries often in narrow-gauged version.

Not much mining going on in Denmark. In general not much heavy industry. And therefor no industrial railways.

I believe peat mining takes place in Denmark. And peat pits sometimes operate or operated narrow gauge railways for peat transport. So do or did peat mines with own railway exist in Denmark?

^^ It's was mostly during the two world wars peat was used in Denmark (as fuel), since coal was very difficult to get at that time. It's not used as fuel anymore, only for some kind of fertilizer and in the gardening business. On this site (http://www.emu.dk/gsk/fag/his/inspiration/tema/energi/toerv.html) there's a few old photos showing these small railway systems, I strongly doubt any of them are in use anymore though...and they probably haven't been for many years.

Pretty much the same storey can be told about lignite. There was a huge production during the wars, and I'm sure the biggest "mines" had their own rails too. One of the biggest, Søby Brunkulslejer, is just some 10-15 south of Herning where I live, I think I've seen some photos with small rail lines. The production ended in 1970.

In connection with the new trainline south around Esbjerg, the line between Lunderskov and Esbjerg C will be electric, according to local news.

This must be a misunderstanding; I have never seen, heard or read anything on this from more reliable sources than Ugeavisen Esbjerg.

This must be a misunderstanding; I have never seen, heard or read anything on this from more reliable sources than Ugeavisen Esbjerg.

Kim Mortensen, MF (Soc) member of trafikudvalget is qouted for this.:

"Elektrificering
Samtidig bekræfter Transportministeren beslutningen om en godsbane til Esbjerg og at den kan gennemføres samtidig med en fremrykning af beslutningen om at elektrificere strækningen til Esbjerg. Det betyder at man allerede om cirka to år kan komme i gang med både elektrificering og godsbane til Esbjerg havn, oplyser Kim Mortensen."


It´s also the first time i see this info, but if you doubt his information, you could contact him.

:)

^^

c. Strategisk analyse af elektrificering af banenettet

Parterne er enige om, at målet er, at jernbanen på sigt skal gøres uafhængig af fossile brændstoffer.

En yderligere elektrificering af jernbanenettet vil kunne medføre lavere CO2-udledning fra togtrafikken, bedre adgang til indkøb af mere standardiseret togmateriel og mindre afhængighed af olieleverancer.

Elektrificeringen bør afvente signalprojektet, som vil billiggøre investeringerne, fordi man sparer tilpasning af de nuværende signalanlæg. En elektrificering vil således blive markant fordyret, hvis den gennemføres, før Banedanmarks signaler er udskiftet. Det betyder, at yderligere elektrificering vil være aktuel fra omkring 2020.

Parterne er enige om at afsætte 10 mio.kr. til udarbejdelse af en samlet strategisk analyse af en yderligere elektrificering af jernbanenettet, herunder de økonomiske konsekvenser, sammenhæng med materielanskaffelser og en mulig gennemførelsesplan.

På strækningen Lunderskov-Esbjerg er de nuværende signalanlæg tilpasset gennem en såkaldt immunisering. Mulighederne for at fremrykke en elektrificering af denne strækning vil derfor indgå i den strategiske analyse. Den strategiske analyse fremlægges i 2011.

^^

To your information, Banedanmark closed down Esbjerg Banegård from mid november to mid december last year, and replaced all signals, so everything here is state of the art. In connection with the "Financial Crisis" i guess they have forwarded some investments, and the timeschedule Kim Mortensen is talking about (2 years from now), is fully in line with your find.

But once again, if you doubt his information, contact him.

:)

^^ I just don't see the logic (following various discussions on these matters). Why would they go ahead and hasten the electrification of Esbjerg/Lunderskov - a project that will probably cost well over a billion DKR - just because of Esbjerg Havn getting a more, but rather short, direct single-track link meant for freight trains? And now related to what you mentioned, the fact that parts of Esbjerg Banegård has received an update on signals and tracks?

Is that enough in order to go ahead - over ten years ahead of time (as the stretch of Esbjerg/Lunderskov will be one of the latest having the new signals system installed (although is has received immunization) - with an investment of over 1 billion DKR?
When the decision was made to hold on to IC4, well, that also meant that the stretch to Esbjerg will be - mainly - served by diesel trains for a long time.

I guess we will have to wait until the strategic analysis is ready in 11 - which is another reason why I don't understand Kim Mortensen being able to come forward with that comment at all.

Not much mining going on in Denmark. In general not much heavy industry. And therefor no industrial railways.

The only thing I can think of, is the track that goes to NKT in Brøndby. That looks like a seperate track line and it goes directly into their factory area...

You already got an answer
______________
http://2.s01.flagcounter.com/count/fcPpr/bg=FFFFFF/txt=FFFFFF/border=FFFFFF/columns=1/maxflags=1/viewers=0/labels=1/

^^ I just don't see the logic (following various discussions on these matters). Why would they go ahead and hasten the electrification of Esbjerg/Lunderskov - a project that will probably cost well over a billion DKR - just because of Esbjerg Havn getting a more, but rather short, direct single-track link meant for freight trains? And now related to what you mentioned, the fact that parts of Esbjerg Banegård has received an update on signals and tracks?

Is that enough in order to go ahead - over ten years ahead of time (as the stretch of Esbjerg/Lunderskov will be one of the latest having the new signals system installed (although is has received immunization) - with an investment of over 1 billion DKR?
When the decision was made to hold on to IC4, well, that also meant that the stretch to Esbjerg will be - mainly - served by diesel trains for a long time.

I guess we will have to wait until the strategic analysis is ready in 11 - which is another reason why I don't understand Kim Mortensen being able to come forward with that comment at all.

well I think its exactly because it has already been immunized ( whatever that means) that it makes sense.

The work is half-way done, making the completion much quicker and somewhat cheaper and there is little reason to wait unlike in the rest of the country, where savings can be made by combining the installation of new signals with immunization.

BaneDanmark´s rail electrification rapport has been published.


http://www.trm.dk/~/media/Files/Publication/2011/Analyse%20af%20elektrificering%20af%20banenettet/Hovedrapport%20elektrificering%20endelig%20-%20111028.ashx

http://ing.dk/artikel/124106-eldrift-banker-diesel-i-ny-rapport-fra-banedanmark

http://i41.tinypic.com/9iac9l.jpg

2020-2021? Wow, that's really ambitious... o.O

:|

That's wonderful news!

Electrification must be highest priority looking at the current problems with the IC4. I just fear more new reports and delays, before anything happens, knowing Danish politicians.

:)

The main idea behind the speedy electrification of the Lunderskov - Esbjerg line is that it is relatively cheap and it will release 6 IC3 diesel train sets for use on other route f.eks. the busy Aarhus line and it can be operated together with the Flensborg/Sønderborg routes.

^^ And the argument against the same speed at the rest of the network, is that it's only the Lunderskob- Esbjerg line, which has a signal system that can handle an electrification! It will be too costly and problematic to upgrade the rest of the network, before the planned standardization of the signals!

Exactly Alseimik.
There is also a good economical argument being put forward for erecting the foundations and masts on the line between Roskilde and Holbæk, while the line is closed for 3 months in the summer for the next 3 years, in connection with the doubling of the line between Lejre and Vipperød. This will save service disruptions when the line is finally electrified, after the renewal of the signalling.

http://i40.tinypic.com/9tq0wo.jpg

Even the best plans can be spoiled by stupid politians, and this time from Venstre who are supposed to be keen on anything from the west of Jutland.
Maybe they see reason or do a deal.

http://www.dr.dk/Nyheder/Politik/2011/11/18/083555.htm

http://www.b.dk/politiko/eltog-faldt-til-jorden-paa-30-minutter

^^
Cosmic fun to follow the development hour for hour.:

http://www.b.dk/politiko/to-aars-togkaos-mellem-danmark-og-europa

:bash: :nuts:


:lol:

^^
Cosmic fun to follow the development hour for hour.:

http://www.b.dk/politiko/to-aars-togkaos-mellem-danmark-og-europa

:bash: :nuts:

:lol:

This farce that has been going on for the last 48 hours is so incredible stupid I do not have words to describe it.

Both DSB and DBSchenker says they have no problem with the single track in Sønderjylland at present and the most sane thing would be to postpone the expansion to double track until the Femern link has been realized.

But why listen to the experts when some stubborn politician already has decided that he will not listen nor change his mind and that BaneDanmark should "just change their plans" and hence using more money and postponing the double track expansion further.

The money should be spent where there's most bang for the buck. In this case, the electrification from Lunderskov to Esbjerg which will free up 10-15 sets of IC3 to be used elsewhere.

This farce that has been going on for the last 48 hours is so incredible stupid I do not have words to describe it.

Both DSB and DBSchenker says they have no problem with the single track in Sønderjylland at present and the most sane thing would be to postpone the expansion to double track until the Femern link has been realized.

But why listen to the experts when some stubborn politician already has decided that he will not listen nor change his mind and that BaneDanmark should "just change their plans" and hence using more money and postponing the double track expansion further.

The money should be spent where there's most bang for the buck. In this case, the electrification from Lunderskov to Esbjerg which will free up 10-15 sets of IC3 to be used elsewhere.

Isn´t Hans Christian Schmidt, the former (thank god) traffic minister elected in that area in the south of Jutland. I wonder what the price of the comprimise be. A motorway between Ringkøbing and Tarm maybe. :lol:
Sorry, no laughing matter. :ohno:

And what is up with Venstre? There's no logic behind their act, only political opinion, and I'm not going to discuss politic here, but sometimes there's just something that is much better for the society, and it isn't worth to disagree, just because you don't like the others. With all the problems we have about our railways, freeing 6 units would mean everything!

And what is up with Venstre? There's no logic behind their act, only political opinion, and I'm not going to discuss politic here, but sometimes there's just something that is much better for the society, and it isn't worth to disagree, just because you don't like the others. With all the problems we have about our railways, freeing 6 units would mean everything!

Alseimik you´re absolutely right, this is nothing but political mish mash. ALL politicians wants an electrical solution, but one side is leading the country, and the other was taken the power.

So what we Danes want, is a future safe solution, now the IC4 is not ready.

:nuts:

^^BTW, just trying to clarify things: There are currently no single-track between Vojens and Vamdrup - in fact it is a double track, electrified. However, it is a double track that, due to its design, won't allow very high speeds. Therefore, the project in Sønderjylland is about changing the tracé of the current double track, using current tracks back and forth, thereby allowing for higher speeds - originally they were hoping for 200kph.

^^BTW, just trying to clarify things: There are currently no single-track between Vojens and Vamdrup - in fact it is a double track, electrified. However, it is a double track that, due to its design, won't allow very high speeds. Therefore, the project in Sønderjylland is about changing the tracé of the current double track, using current tracks back and forth, thereby allowing for higher speeds - originally they were hoping for 200kph.

Sorry Fab5, but as you can see on this link to Banedanmarks map, there is only a single (electrified) track between Vamdrup and Vojens, though the line is cleared for 200 km/h. (They use the line for testing new trains at this speed, as it is completely without gradients)

The whole problem is not a question of speed but that you cannot build a second track without disturbing the traffic on the existing track, which is the only connection to Germany, importantly the freight traffic. The proposal therefore is to wait with this until the Femern connection is complete and use the money on electrifying the Lunderskov - Esbjerg line instead.
Unfortunately Venstre can/will not see the idea behind this.

http://www.bane.dk/db/filarkiv/6039/Bilag_07_2011.pdf

^^My bet. Thanks!

A little further elaboration as I have understood the proposed project from BaneDanmark:
There are 2 tracks on part of the line (tracks for overtaking), these are permanently incorporated as the 2nd track.
At the remaining sections a 2nd track is built, but on different sides of the current track to ensure that a satisfactory top speed can be achieved.
This will lead to a lot of crossings with the current track, and that is probably why the full closure is needed.
When the track is finalised, the trains will of course run on one side as normal, but the track will be partly new and partly old, as indicated above.
It might be possible to build the 2nd track without disrupting traffic so heavily, but I guess that will lead to a significant increase in project cost, and I wonder if the politicians can accept that....

You have got to love the typical politician comment: "They will just have to change the project"... Sounds easy, doesn't it... oh wait, there are technical issues? Bah! just give us a cost and a delivery date and we are happy...

The next step will probably be that they order an independent study report to uncover the best way forward, and then we spend 5 more years before something happens.

The next step will probably be that they order an independent study report to uncover the best way forward, and then we spend 5 more years before something happens.

And that's when they start to talk about it!

It seems like they are negotiating again, and this time about electrification of all the mainstretches.

- Lunderskov-Esbjerg: Gennemført senest i 2015
- Fredericia-Aarhus-Aalborg: Gennemført senest i 2018
- Nordvestbanen: Gennemført senest i 2018

Link.:

http://ing.dk/artikel/125032-blaa-blok-pensionskasser-kan-sikre-el-tog-til-esbjerg-om-fire-aar

:cheers:

It seems like they are negotiating again, and this time about electrification of all the mainstretches.

- Lunderskov-Esbjerg: Gennemført senest i 2015
- Fredericia-Aarhus-Aalborg: Gennemført senest i 2018
- Nordvestbanen: Gennemført senest i 2018

Link.:

http://ing.dk/artikel/125032-blaa-blok-pensionskasser-kan-sikre-el-tog-til-esbjerg-om-fire-aar

:cheers:

Yes, it all sounds so easy with pension funds but most pension funds expect a return of perhaps 4-6% in order to pay their members pensions while a state garanteed loan can be had for 1-2% so in the end it is going to be much more expensive. :nuts:

Yes, it all sounds so easy with pension funds but most pension funds expect a return of perhaps 4-6% in order to pay their members pensions while a state garanteed loan can be had for 1-2% so in the end it is going to be much more expensive. :nuts:

Well - generally I agree with you. But if the alternative is no electrification and 83 IC4 train sets that will probarly never be running the way they were supposed to as well as overcrowded, out dated regional train sets carrying commuters back and forth with delays I think we will see that the best long term economic solution would be to get those power lines up above the rail tracks as soon as possible - and if this is quickest established through pensions funds then go ahead IMHO.

From this article in Ingeniøren, it appears that the remaining 6 class EA electric locomotives are to make a come back in Denmark as a result of the decision to electrify the line to Esbjerg by 2015.
At the moment they are stationed/stored at the Central workshops and are only used for the one daily return trip from Padborg to Copenhagen with the international night train.
They were originally purchased when the line to Helsingør was electrified.

http://ing.dk/artikel/128340-gamle-ustabile-el-lokomotiver-skal-loese-elektrificeringskabale

http://i42.tinypic.com/33nhhko.jpg

From this article in Ingeniøren, it appears that the remaining 6 class EA electric locomotives are to make a come back in Denmark as a result of the decision to electrify the line to Esbjerg by 2015.
At the moment they are stationed/stored at the Central workshops and are only used for the one daily return trip from Padborg to Copenhagen with the international night train.
They were originally purchased when the line to Helsingør was electrified.

http://ing.dk/artikel/128340-gamle-ustabile-el-lokomotiver-skal-loese-elektrificeringskabale


According to the article, they are to be used on Sjælland for the double decker trains, and the IR4 will then be used between Kbh and Esbjerg, after 2015.

But again the debate on ing.dk, seems to indicate, that these EA locomotives, are not suitable for the double deckers.

:lol:

The problem is that they can´t be driven from the other end of the train but a small upgrade of the computer should handle that.

^^ that's the official problem, the real problem is that these units aren't that reliable, along with the necessary upgrade, they'll need maintenance and upgrade what ever that makes them that unreliable!

^^ that's the official problem, the real problem is that these units aren't that reliable, along with the necessary upgrade, they'll need maintenance and upgrade what ever that makes them that unreliable!

I hope over 8 million kroner pr. locomotive can help the reliability problems.

The Danish railways' electrical masts and portals (see the photo above and others) are very good-looking, IMHO: indeed, a simple and modern design at the same time...