I've just heard that Singapore airlines will be providing the longest non stop trip which will be from Singapore to Los Angeles. The trip should take eighteen hours and elimnates the stop over in Tokyo or Tiapei

What do you think?

fuck that would be as boring as hell....>(

Pilots undergo series of tests to ensure they stay alert during non-stop flights that may last as long as 18 hours

By Karamjit Kaur

SINGAPORE Airlines looks set to be the first to fly passengers non-stop from Singapore to the United States, when it starts using the new Airbus A340-500 early next year.

The move will mean SIA cuts about four hours off the current flight time to Los Angeles, arriving on the West Coast in about 16 hours.

As such a long-haul has never been attempted before, pilots will be put through a battery of onboard tests to see how alert they are.

The Singapore to Los Angeles flight is likely to be the first such long-haul route, and the pilots will be wired up to monitor their brain waves. They will also be given special watches to monitor their activity level.

Scientists from the European Committee for Aircrew Scheduling and Safety will study the data, which will also be used to verify an earlier study they did, commissioned by the Civil Aviation Authority of Singapore (CAAS).

An SIA spokesman said yesterday: 'The safety of our crew and passengers is a top priority for the airline and we will do everything that is required to ensure that this is always observed.'

In the first study last year, the team recommended four pilots be used on such flights, which can stretch up to 18 hours depending on, say, wind conditions.

SIA has ordered five A340-500s, with an option to buy five more.

Currently, Boeing planes are mainly used on the SIA flights to the US West Coast, which stop at either Hong Kong, Tokyo or Seoul.

Flight and cabin crew are changed during stopovers.

Current CAAS guidelines allow a pilot to be on duty for up to 18 hours, from reporting to work until signing off.

Pilots on the current US West Coast schedule are on duty, at most, 13 to 16 hours because of stopovers. The general rule is they are at the controls for only half that time.

The non-stop flight will require a new set of working conditions for the cockpit and cabin crew of SIA, which recently laid off 570 staff and announced its first net loss, of $312 million for the three months ended June 30.

CAAS has been discussing the matter with SIA and the pilots' association.

It has been talking separately with the Singapore Airlines Staff Union. Union president Eddie Chew, told The Straits Times various issues would be negotiated.

'This is a new service so we will be touching on topics like allowance, rest time and the number of crew on these super long-haul flights.'

Analyst Ian Thomas, a senior consultant at the Sydney-based Centre for Asia Pacific Aviation foresees SIA tapping the corporate market for this new service.

'The yield will be much higher,' he said, referring to earlier reports that SIA is likely to charge a premium.

Source
The Straits Times

Well thats amazing. LAX is now home to the longest flight route.
Fun in first, but boring as hell in coach.

I like Singapore.

Any flight time past 4 hours,is when jet lag begins to set intp the body clock.Even a 9 hour hop is wearisome and boring.It used to be great about 40 years back when jets just came in.One would have 4 hours say from SYD to NAN(Fiji)and then after an hour to stretch ones legs,it was 6 hours to HNL(Hawaii)and another stopover,then 5 hours to LAX.Now its one aircraft non stop,with 14 hours,which is TOO MUCH.:mad:

Originally posted by chrisaus

fuck that would be as boring as hell....>(

Not if you bring some stuff to read like a book, newspaper or some magazines or a pack of cards.

And Singapore Airlines have the inflight channels with films, news and entertainment even Nintendo.

I heard SIA was also considering direct flights EWR - SIN, skipping the stop in AMS. Any thruth to that?

Originally posted by Vertigo

I heard SIA was also considering direct flights EWR - SIN, skipping the stop in AMS. Any thruth to that?

What does EWR and AMS stand for?

Sorry. EWR = Newark (near New York). AMS = Schiphol (near Amsterdam).

Amsterdam and New York (one of the airports)

I never heard of this route..I dont think its possible to fly nonstop from Singapore to NY.

Some info from Airbus's website

August 10 2003
Singapore Airlines’ A340-500 takes shapes

The first A340-500 for Singapore Airlines is now taking shape in the Toulouse final assembly line. Singapore Airlines, which has ordered five very long range A340-500s, will use them to open up some of the world’s longest air-routes such as Singapore to Los Angeles, which to day can only be served with one-stop. Deliveries are scheduled for this winter.

http://www.airbus.com/MultimediaElements/2067.jpg

I think it takes 23hrs to fly from London Heathrow to Melbourne. So I guess that could be the same time for flying from Singapore to New York. These planes must be

You're right, I was mixing some things up. I was actually thinking about the non-stop flights from LAX.

BTW, according to a message in rec.travel.air, there won't be coach class on the direct LAX-SIN flights:


Starting early next year, Singapore Airlines' new Los Angeles, CA (LAX) to Singapore (SIN) flight will become the longest--one that requires around 18 hours to complete westbound and probably around 16 hours to complete eastbound. To stretch its range, the plane being used (Airbus A340-500) will only be fitted with premium seating--1/3 First Class and 2/3 Raffles (Business) Class with a seating capacity of around 175 passengers.


@kota16: jet lag actually doesn't have much to do with the length of the flight, but with the amount of time zones you cross. I can fly from the Netherlands to South-Africa without any jet lag problems.

18 hours....either you watch 9 movies one after the other, go for an extended nap, or hopefully its possible to surf on ssc up there! :D

The web would be available but a fee would be charged to access it.

Originally posted by huaiwei

18 hours....either you watch 9 movies one after the other, go for an extended nap, or hopefully its possible to surf on ssc up there! :D

You would have to be a millionaire to surf SSC on an airplane! :D

Originally posted by chrisaus

fuck that would be as boring as hell....>(

There is a personal entertainment unit for each seat aboard SIA planes.........so I don't think boredom is much of an issue.......I spent the exact amount of time crossing the pacific from Taipei to LAX too (I think the Airbus A340-500 are faster than a 747-400.....:?) on Eva Air ......no personal entertainment unit....only a small TV screen on the ceiling showing 'Bring It On' .....arrggghhhh!

Luckily I din sleep the entire night so I slept for 13 hours on the plane.....waking up for meals and a game of cards with my sis and dad......

I reckon that a non-stop flight is so much better than a 4-hours stopover (midnight) in Taipei....that's what we did! ........The terminal is boring as hell as all shops were closed!!! :rant:

Originally posted by Fabian

The web would be available but a fee would be charged to access it.

wikid you can still spam even when on holidays:D

If you had a laptop, a bunch of pc games and a stack of dvd's I think you could handle it. It's the leg room that fucks it for me.

i think it would be too long. stop over for a few hours should be better.

Shiza I didn't realise the new A340's will be able to fly *that* far.

LAX is already home to the current worlds longest nonstop flight.

That is LAX-Melbourne which is approx 14-15 hours and is now served by the current longest range aircraft: Boeing's 747-400ER, first ordered by Qantas with extra fuel tanks in the cargo hold to complete the journey without occasional stopovers for fuel that sometimes hindered the flight when served by previous 747-400's

Source: The Straits Times (http://straitstimes.asia1.com.sg/topstories/story/0,4386,214813,00.html?)

SIA direct to US, a world's first
It will cost more, but airline packs fewer seats and adds stretch areas on new Airbus aircraft for flights starting Feb 3

By Goh Chin Lian

SINGAPORE Airlines will make aviation history on Feb 3 when the world's longest non-stop commercial flight takes off at Changi Airport for a 16-hour trip to Los Angeles. For five to 10 per cent more than a ticket with a stop in Tokyo or Taipei, travellers will save up to two hours a trip.

And to make the non-stop flight - which can stretch to about 18 hours on the trip back - more comfortable, they will get wider seats and more leg room. Business class passengers can stretch out for an extra 15cms, and their Spacebeds will be equipped with DVD ports. Those in economy will be seated seven abreast instead of the usual eight, have 12.5cms more leg room and can lean back an extra 5cms while sipping on champagne. Passengers can also mingle at special corners, and pick up sandwiches, muffins and fruits from a snack bar to nibble between meals. The long-haul flight will have 14 cabin crew, more than the usual 11, and include four pilots.

Tickets for the service, offered on a newly acquired fleet of long-range Airbus 340-500 planes, go on sale today. The airline declined to reveal the price just yet, but industry players estimate that an economy class seat would cost more than $1,600 excluding agent service fees and taxes, based on the basic fare of $1,550 on economy class for current flights.

SIA officials released details of the new service yesterday at Swissotel, The Stamford, where reporters were ushered into a darkened room with atmospheric lighting. A multimedia show introduced the new service and real-size models of the seats were displayed for reporters to try out, guided by a bevy of the airline's trademark Singapore Girls in their kebayas.

The press conference also signalled a new chapter for the airline, which was badly buffeted by the Iraq war and Sars. It cut flights by more than a third during the Sars outbreak, and reported its first-ever quarterly loss of $312 million at the end of June. But it now expects to restore nearly all the suspended flights by the end of the year, and is planning to add more next year.

The new service will complement its two existing daily services to Los Angeles, through Taipei and Tokyo. Time-conscious business travellers can also look forward to a new 18-hour non-stop service between Singapore and New York City starting next August, which will cut travel time by up to six hours.

Offering such flights between Singapore and the United States will allow SIA to make full use of the open skies agreement between both countries, said Mr Michael Tan, SIA's senior executive vice-president (commercial). 'It is difficult to continue to add one-stop flights because of restrictions imposed by countries along the way,' he added.

But the break-even level on the new services will be higher than on other flights, as they will carry fewer passengers to give them more room, said Mr Tan. There will be just 181 seats, almost half of what similar-sized jets can carry. SIA also decided against putting in a first-class section, which would have taken up even more space and raised operating costs.

As a sweetener to try out the new service, those on the SIA's frequent flyer programme will receive double miles if they travel on it between February and May.

Source: Singapore Airlines Press Release (http://www.singaporeair.com/saa/app/saa?dynamic=PressReleases/NR_0903.html)

SIA Makes Aviation History With The A345LeaderShip
15 October 2003

Singapore Airlines (SIA) today unveiled the newest aircraft type to join its fleet – the ultra long-range Airbus 340-500. SIA’s A340-500 will offer the longest non-stop commercial service in the world with its first flight from Singapore to Los Angeles in February 2004.

This SIA service to Los Angeles will take 16 hours, and the return service from Los Angeles about 18.5 hours. This is a savings of 1.5 to two hours over SIA’s current one-stop flights.

“We have named the aircraft the A345LeaderShip to underscore its unique characteristics and SIA’s continued commitment to product and service innovation. With the A340-500, we are offering non-stop services over long distances, that translate to greater convenience, comfort and time savings. It is specially designed for today’s business travellers,” said SIA’s Senior Executive Vice-President (Commercial), Michael Tan.

The SIA A345LeaderShip will commence with daily services to Los Angeles, with services to New York City to follow in August 2004. The service from New York to Singapore will shorten travel time by two hours, and from Singapore to New York, by six hours. The New York - Singapore service will take about 18 hours in each direction.

“We pioneered non-stop services from Singapore to London, and between Hong Kong and San Francisco, and we are doing it again with the A345LeaderShip,” added Mr Tan.

The Airline will be setting another marker with the premium configuration of the A345LeaderShip. The aircraft will feature just 181 seats in a spacious two-class configuration comprising Raffles (business) Class and a new Executive Economy Class.

A345LeaderShip Executive Economy Class

This new SIA class of travel will offer 117 Executive Economy Class seats in a 2-3-2 configuration, with a seat pitch of 37” and a seat-back recline of 8”. It will also feature a seat width of 20”, a leather adjustable headrest, an innovative leg rest and foot rest, and a 9” personal video monitor for in-flight entertainment. In addition, SIA has introduced AC power supply outlets in the Executive Economy cabin.

A345LeaderShip Raffles Class

The A345LeaderShip Raffles Class cabin will feature 64 of SIA’s renowned lie-flat SpaceBeds in a 2-2-2 seat layout, with a larger seat pitch of 64”.

The SpaceBed offers a bed width of 26” and a bed length of 78”, as well as an adjustable headrest, leg rest and lumbar support. The 10.4” personal video monitor will enable customers to enjoy SIA’s comprehensive in-flight entertainment system in style, and an AC power supply outlet at every seat will be welcomed by the traveller who wishes to power up his laptop.

Other A345LeaderShip features

Another new feature on the A345LeaderShip will be passenger corners in both the Raffles and Executive Economy Class cabins, where passengers can gather to socialize. In addition, Executive Economy Class will offer an area where customers can help themselves to an array of snacks and drinks.

All seats will also be equipped with SIA’s renowned in-flight entertainment system, KrisWorld, which offers over 200 entertainment options including movies, television features, music stations, CD selections, and games. This is available on the latest Matsushita System 3000 AVOD (audio video on demand) platform that enables passengers to pause, fast forward or rewind any audio or video programme at will.

Said Mr Tan, “The interior of the A340-500, from the cabin layout to the seats, has been designed to offer excellent comfort for long-haul business travellers to ensure they arrive refreshed and ready to go.”

SIA’s frequent flyers (KrisFlyers) will receive double miles for travel on the A345LeaderShip from February until the end of May 2004. A 25 per cent discount is offered on this flight on Raffles Class companion awards, upon the purchase of a regular Raffles Class ticket, during the same period.

The A340-500 service between Singapore and Los Angeles will complement existing services to this business and entertainment capital. SIA currently operates two daily services via Taipei and Tokyo. Tickets on the A340-500 will be available from SIA ticketing offices, SIA website, and travel agents from 16 October 2003.

SIA placed its order for 10 A340-500 in 1998 with five on firm order and five on option. The order was worth US$2.2 billion, including the cost of spares and spare engines. The A340-500 will be powered by four Rolls Royce Trent 553 engines. This is the first new aircraft type to join the SIA fleet since 1997, when the Airline took delivery of its first Boeing 777. As at 26 October 2003, SIA’s operating fleet comprises of 51 B777s and 27 B747s, a total of 78 aircraft (23 were withdrawn pending resumption of all services).

FACT SHEET

SIA A345LeaderShip

Distance covered (Singapore – Los Angeles): Appoximately 7,900 nautical miles.

Estimated Travel Time:
Singapore to Los Angeles - 16 hours
Los Angeles to Singapore - 18 hours and 20 minutes

Northern Winter 03/04 Schedule:
From Singapore to Los Angeles
Flight No. - SQ20
Departing - 1600hrs
Arriving - 1600hrs
From Los Angeles to Singapore
Flight No. - SQ19
Departing - 2000hrs
Arriving - 0620hrs, +2
*All times local; +2 denotes arrival 2 days later

Executive Economy Class
Seats: 117
Layout: 2 - 3 - 2
Seat pitch: 37"
Seat width: 20"
Seat recline: 8"
Inflight entertainment screen size: 9"
AC power supply: Every two seats

Raffles Class
Seats: 64
Layout: 2 - 2 - 2
Seat pitch: 64"
Seat width: 20"
Seat recline: Flat bed
Bed width: 26"
Bed length: 78"
Inflight entertainment screen size: 10.4"
AC power supply: Every seat

HOLY CRAP!! I don't know if I would like to be on this flight to be honest.

I would!
I'm so exited!

rj2uman, you're the president of the Hwaiwei fanclub?:D

whoah.. i wouldn't want to be stuck in an airplane for 16 hours. but interesting news nevertheless

very interesting. i wanna see the plane photos. must be very nice.
But the time length is too long though.

Originally posted by Cliff

I would!
I'm so exited!

rj2uman, you're the president of the Hwaiwei fanclub?:D

LOL yes! Didn't you know?

Originally posted by rj2uman

LOL yes! Didn't you know? Something tells me you need to increase your presence in this forums!! :D

Anyway I will try to find the pictures as soon as possible as kiku suggested. ;)

Originally posted by huaiwei

Something tells me you need to increase your presence in this forums!! :D



:master: Yes sir! Of course sir! I will try my best sir! ;)

http://www.airlinequality.com/images/SIA_EXE_ECON.jpg

New Executive Economy Class

http://www.airbus.com/multimediaelements/2246.jpg

SIA's A340-500

Originally posted by dtkoh

http://www.airlinequality.com/images/SIA_EXE_ECON.jpg

New Executive Economy Class
I thought it was Business Class! :eek:

Now I'm even more exited! Is it cost effective for SIA to take up so much space for fewer seats?

SIA to double daily flights from India
Sunday, 26 October , 2003, 12:02

Targeting the growing number of air travellers from India to Singapore, which is already on a high pitch after destinations in the Gulf, Singapore Airlines plans to operate double daily flights to and from India in December and January under the limited 'open sky' policy announced for the winter schedule.



SIA, which launched three additional daytime daily flights from Mumbai today, would take advantage of the policy effective between December and February and start an additional flight each from Delhi and Bangalore and an "ad hoc" weekly service from Kolkata, its General Manager (India ) B K Ong told reporters at New Delhi.

Subject to government clearances, it also plans to upgrade its Boeing 777-200 service from Chennai to Boeing 747-400 during the temporary open sky policy in the winter.

Besides, its subsidiary Silk Air would operate four charter flights to Jaipur and three to Gaya during the season.

Welcoming the announcement by Prime Minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee of an open sky policy for ASEAN airlines, Ong said "if all ground rules are in place, we intend to operate double daily flights out of India , which has become an important business centre and tourist destination".

Pointing out that India moved up the rank of sending air travellers to Singapore from ninth in 2000 to seventh this year, it currently contributed almost six per cent of total arrivals into the city state this year, compared with 12 per cent of the biggest contributor Indonesia .

The SIA official, in charge of the entire operations here, said as India liberalises its aviation policies, more airlines would be encouraged to operate to and out of India apart from providing a lot more choice of airlines which in turn would be forced to upgrade and improve their products.

He said Singapore had a liberal open sky policy with Sri Lanka , Australia and US and "we hope to have one with India also".

Besides the three new daytime flights from Mumbai which were launched today, SIA operates 26 flights a week from Mumbai, Delhi , Bangalore and Chennai and Silk Air 11 flights out of Thiruvananthapuram , Cochin and Hyderabad .

It is also offering a special inaugural fare to Singapore on these flights till November 15 and till December 15, 2003 for outbound travel.

Ong said SIA would introduce the longest non-stop commercial 16 hour flight from Singapore to Los Angeles (18 hours on the return leg) from February 2004 when its takes delivery of its first Airbus A340-500 aircraft. This flight would be followed up to New York in August.

SIA would also be the first operator of the first A-380-800, likely in 2006. The aircraft is still being developed by major aircraft manufacturer Airbus Industries.

http://sify.com/finance/fullstory.php?id=13292002&vsv=157

Originally posted by drwho

SIA would also be the first operator of the first A-380-800, likely in 2006. The aircraft is still being developed by major aircraft manufacturer Airbus Industries.

http://sify.com/finance/fullstory.php?id=13292002&vsv=157

That will be exciting!:)

Originally posted by RafflesCity
That will be exciting!:)

yeap..the A380 will be intresting:) :)

my god.....i spent in 1996 25 hours flying from Madrid (Spain) to singapore via frankfurt....:rant:

Originally posted by J@mes is back!!

my god.....i spent in 1996 25 hours flying from Madrid (Spain) to singapore via frankfurt....:rant: Haha...that sounds like the era of the sailing ships. ;)

Originally posted by huaiwei
Haha...that sounds like the era of the sailing ships. ;)

or Air India back in early 90/ late80s :D

Well...arent most airlines using the same kind of planes most of the time? ;)

Anyway, hope to see more destinations with flights to India. Such a huge market awaits there!

This is your chance to either win a pair of business or executive economy class tickets on the inaugural flight between Singapore and Los Angeles. :)

It's your chance to be on the flight that will make aviation histroy by being the longest commercial flight in the world! ;)

Visit the SIA website here:
http://a345leadership.singaporeair.com/index.asp

Mods: Sorry if this sounds like an advert. I simply wanted to inform the others about this. :)

Is there a catch or something? All I need to do is that simple task?? :D

The catch is that it's a lucky draw.
And that is the worse thing on earth!:D

nobody can beat singapore airlines, aircraft manufacturers always consult them when making new large airplanes because they are always the biggest buyers of huge widebodied aircrafts

25 hours Madrid Singapore? wow...

it's roughly around 3.30 hours Madrid-Frankfurt, then about 12 hours Frankfurt-SG. that adds up to 15 hours... did u mean 15 hours on flight? or 25 hours of traveling, including stopovers that could take hours?

You guys MUST see those videos in the multimedia section. Its so cool, I even downloaded them! (I have software that can grap streamed video)

I dunt noe how many of you really want to endure such a long flight, but if you can fly for free...why not? :D

Try this:
Win tickets on the inagural SIA Airbus A340-500 flight! (http://skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=69407)

:D

but then again, not a lot of us live in Singapore, nor in Singapore.. probably 15 tops.

There is also the option to take the plane from LA.....

India may let private airlines fly to Singapore

By Tapan Banerjee

MUMBAI - India is willing to consider a Singapore request to allow private Indian airlines to fly to the Republic.

Singapore's Transport Minister Yeo Cheow Tong said that in a meeting with Civil Aviation Minister Rajiv Pratap Rudy this week, he asked for more flights between the two nations to cope with the increasing air traffic.

He suggested that New Delhi allow its private airlines, such as Sahara and Jet Airways, to operate the India-Singapore route.

'If this is done, it will help the business communities of both countries who are now tremendously handicapped and feel frustrated for not being able to fly at short notice due to non-availability of seats,' Mr Yeo told The Straits Times on Thursday after a five-day visit to India.

Currently, only the government-owned Air India and Indian Airlines are allowed to fly to foreign destinations.

Mr Yeo visited New Delhi and Mumbai. He also met Minister for Shipping Shatrughan Sinha and Maharashtra Chief Minister Sushil Kumar Shinde.

He said Singapore was keen to take part in Mumbai's proposed US$40 billion (S$69 billion) transformation into a world-class city. 'We can provide ideas, services and expertise in helping Mumbai achieve its goal,' he said.

http://straitstimes.asia1.com.sg/asia/story/0,4386,220106,00.html

I hope this comes to pass. It will be mutually beneficial! ;)

Originally posted by huaiwei

There is also the option to take the plane from LA.....


yeah, i forgot to write that down. :bash:

anyways, even if you dun take the first one, and you still fly it, you'd be part of history as one of the possible millions who flew the world's longest flight;)

Originally posted by huaiwei
I hope this comes to pass. It will be mutually beneficial! ;)

yeap it would be the best thing for the customers.
Today for example i have to take the flight to Ahmedabad and after that to Mumbai. Then i can take the flight to Singapore.
it would be nice if private airlines could fly direct to Singapore with the open sky policy.


well i guess its upp to the indian government. :) ;)

Originally posted by drwho

yeap it would be the best thing for the customers.
Today for example i have to take the flight to Ahmedabad and after that to Mumbai. Then i can take the flight to Singapore.
it would be nice if private airlines could fly direct to Singapore with the open sky policy.


well i guess its upp to the indian government. :) ;) May I just double check with you, that at present, no Indian private jet can fly out of India?

Originally posted by huaiwei
May I just double check with you, that at present, no Indian private jet can fly out of India?

Yeap thats true. That regulation law has been in effect since the 50s nationalisation-era.

it was 2 weeks ago when the indian goverment adopted the open sky policy . Meaning that indian private jets can for the first time in 50 years fly to Sri Lanka.



:)

Originally posted by drwho

Yeap thats true. That regulation law has been in effect since the 50s nationalisation-era.

it was 2 weeks ago when the indian goverment adopted the open sky policy . Meaning that indian private jets can for the first time in 50 years fly to Sri Lanka.



:) Ic...any reason for this ruling? I had the impression it was to support the national carriers, or was there any other reason?

The open skies policy now only applies to Sri Lanka?

Thanks for your clarifications. ;)

Originally posted by huaiwei
Ic...any reason for this ruling? I had the impression it was to support the national carriers, or was there any other reason?

The open skies policy now only applies to Sri Lanka?

Thanks for your clarifications. ;)

I think it is due to the SAARC/ASEAN-meeting.
It was supported by other ASEAN-members and national private airlines.
Which is good.:)

Yes,the open sky policy does only apply Sri lanka,but if the goverment says yes to the Singapore-proposal . Then i think it will open up for more countries in SE-asia.

here is an article of the issue regarding the regulation and the goverments fears of competition from private airlines :)

http://www.ndtv.com/business/showbusinessstory.asp?slug=Air+Sahara+begins+flight+to+Colombo&id=16007

lets hope for the best:):)

Originally posted by huaiwei

You guys MUST see those videos in the multimedia section. Its so cool, I even downloaded them! (I have software that can grap streamed video)

You naughty thing, the purpose of streaming media is not to allow others to download their videos. ;)

I took part in the draw but am not expecting to win. There's only 2 pairs of seats to be won! :bash:

I love the video alot mah. If you want I can send to you via IM! :D

Anyway I have yet to participate. I am still wondering what they really want! ;)

Originally posted by huaiwei

You guys MUST see those videos in the multimedia section. Its so cool, I even downloaded them! (I have software that can grap streamed video)

I WANT ALSO!!!! :D

Originally posted by szehoong

I WANT ALSO!!!! :D Haha...I have to see you on MSN then. ;)

SIA to increase seat capacity to India by over 11%
Press Trust of India
New Delhi, December 2


Taking benefit of the limited open sky policy of the government, Singapore Airlines (SIA) is mounting additional services to India between December and January, increasing its seat capacity by over 11 per cent.

The premier global airline would offer 10,481 seats in these two peak months as against the prevailing 9,168 seats per week, SIA vice-president (Public Affairs) Rick Clements told reporters.

Stating that it would upgrade its Boeing-777 operations to Boeing-747s to Mumbai, he said this would raise the seat capacity in December-January from 3188 to 3545 a week.

SIA would add an additional flight to Bangalore, raising the weekly services from three to four and the seat capacity per week by 288, while in Chennai it would operate 747s five times a week and 777s twice a week, reversing the operation of aircraft.

The Singaporean carrier would also add an ad hoc service to Kolkata, where it already flies twice a week, Clements said, adding that the SIA planned to launch its third weekly services to the eastern metropolis soon. The additional service to Kolkata would raise the seat capacity offered from 323 to 646.

Replying to a question on the open sky announced by Prime Minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee during the recent India-ASEAN summit, he said the airline was still studying on which additional

http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/181_480445,00020009.htm

How many of you actually took part in this competition by now?

24 Dec 2003

WHEN Singapore Airlines makes aviation history in February next year with the world's longest non-stop commercial flight, its economy class passengers will be doing it in style.

They will sip champagne and have a choice of top-quality wines on the 16- to 18 1/2-hour flight from Changi Airport to Los Angeles while enjoying the airline's renowned in-flight entertainment system.

A statement from the airline yesterday said that the new long-haul Airbus 345-500, named the A345 Leadership, would serve 'a delicate balance of old and new world wines, from Italy, France and the US' chosen by a panel of world-renowned wine experts.

They are Mr Steven Spurrier from Britain, Mr Anthony Dias Blue from the United States and Mr Michael Hill-Smith from Australia.

The revamped 117-seat economy class cabin, reported to cost up to 10 per cent more than current economy class seats, has other perks.

The seats are the industry's widest, at 50.8cms. Passengers will also have 12.5cms more leg room and will be able to lean back an extra 5cms, besides having a power supply for their laptops.

They will also have a special corner to mingle and pick up sandwiches, muffins and fruit from a snack bar to nibble on between meals.

The A345 LeaderShip, which will also seat 64 passengers in business class, will operate its inaugural non-stop flight from Singapore to Los Angeles in February and then between Singapore and New York in August.

But now SIA offers Baileys Irish Cream and oter liquor in Economy right??
Well, I know that Britsh Airways and United Airlines does.

My longest flight was 23 hours of flight from Singapore to New York via Amsterdam on Singapore Airlines. Total time including the stop over was 25 hours.:)

My most stop overs was from Rome to Milan to Colombo to Kuala Lumpur to Singapore on Sri Lankan Airlines, all in the plane. The worst thing was that in Colombo, an SIA plane boke down or something, so our half empty flight became full.

Jeez....all people know how to appreciate is some alcoholic drinks? ;)

Pity the non-drinkers..like myself. :D

I think I can safely say that you won't catch me on these flights at all, even if I can afford it. I just hate long flights. Would be a good thing to stop over for some rest in between.

Eh...bloody shit! I forgot to participate before the deadline!! :bash: :bash: :D

By Ca-Mie de Souza, Channel NewsAsia

SINGAPORE : For just $1,800, you will be able to fly non-stop to Los Angeles in just 16 hours!

Singapore Airline's new ultra long-haul plane has arrived and will make its maiden flight on February 3.

It was touchdown at 12.40 on Friday for Asia's first ultra long-haul plane.

The A345 Leadership is one of 10 planes SIA has ordered from Airbus in a $2.2 billion deal.

The name perhaps hints at how it can help cement Changi's and SIA's positions as leaders.

You can book one of the 181 seats on the maiden flight next month and enjoy some of the luxuries like free flow of champagne, and be a part of history.

It will be the world's longest non-stop flight - from Singapore to Los Angeles - and leave you at least three hours ahead of other travellers.

The crew raved about the plane's smooth ride and say passengers do not have to worry about its welfare.

Captain H.K. Leong, Chief Pilot of A345 Leadership, SIA, said: "The pilots have their own rest facilities and that's how we use that to extend the duty time. Two sets of crew, so they take rest and that's why we come back we can still talk to you, otherwise we would be too tired."

Passengers are also likely to get better rest.

Those in Business Class have the option of a flat bed - plus DVD entertainment.

And Economy Class passengers get roomier seats, larger screens and can even work on their laptops all through the flight.

One unique feature of the A345 Leadership is the lounge area where passengers can come to get a snack or network with other passengers.

Targeted at business travellers, the airline said they would have to pay 5 to 10 percent more than current non-stop flights.

But special prices will be offered for two months.

Business Class seats are priced at $7,000 and Economy Class seats at $1,800.

"What you pay, definitely you will get the value for it."

"Just quicker, less in and out of airports with a two-year old."

"As long as I get there on the right days."

The flight will also serve up better connections for travellers.

Michael Tan, Senior Executive Vice President (Commercial) at SIA, said: "When they leave Singapore in the afternoon and arrive in LA, you can connect to almost all the cities in the USA, and when you arrive in Singapore you can connect to practically all the cities in Southeast Asia."

This should give Changi and SIA an edge in the battle to be an airhub.

By June, SIA will launch an 18 hour non-stop service to New York - which will cut six hours in travel time. - CNA

Think we forgot to mention this....the A345 has ARRIVED!! ;)

JAN 3, 2004

SIA's travel-in-comfort Airbus arrives

By Karamjit Kaur

YOU know you're travelling in style when the loo has a view. This is one of the unique features of Singapore Airlines' new aircraft that will fly non-stop daily between Singapore and Los Angeles from Feb 3.

Yesterday, it took delivery of its first ultra-long-range Airbus, the A340-500 jet, amid much thrill and pride. SIA's senior executive vice-president (commercial), Mr Michael Tan, led the welcome party at Terminal 2. The aircraft, named Leadership, landed just after 12.30pm.

Mr Tan said it was a historic moment for SIA. 'It marks the beginning of a new long-haul travel experience... one that sets new standards for non-stop travel by offering greater convenience, more space and time savings for the business traveller and strengthens our Changi hub.'

The flight to Los Angeles will take about 16 hours. The return journey will be about 18 hours, saving up to three hours, including transit time. The flight will cost 5 to 10 per cent more than SIA's other flights to Los Angeles, but until March 31, a promotional fare is offered that is the same as what passengers pay for the existing flight that stops over in Taipei or Tokyo. Mr Tan is confident the new service, which should appeal most to business travellers, will be profitable though unlikely to contribute much to SIA's bottom line at this stage.

The plane has lounge areas for travellers to mingle, and windows in two of its eight toilets. Seats are wider, and there will be more legroom. Though the aircraft can handle more than 300 seats, SIA's will have only 181. Business-class passengers have an extra 15cm to stretch out, and their SpaceBeds will be equipped with DVD ports. In economy class, passengers will sit seven abreast instead of eight, and have 12.5cm more legroom and an extra 5cm to lean back.

In 2006, SIA is scheduled to take delivery of the Airbus 380 jumbo jet, the world's biggest civilian plane, which can seat more than 500.

http://straitstimes.asia1.com.sg/mnt/media/image/launched/2004-01-03/P1A_0103.jpg
With economy class seats wide enough to sit cross-legged, non-stop flights promise comfort, as Mr Tan shows.

http://straitstimes.asia1.com.sg/mnt/media/image/launched/2004-01-03/P1B_0103.jpg
Toilets with a view are a feature of the new plane. -- PHOTOS: AZIZ HUSSIN

I was wondering..ever since the US imposed new laws against congregation of passengers on a plane, whats going to happen to the passenger lounge thing being offered on these planes??

Originally posted by huaiwei

I was wondering..ever since the US imposed new laws against congregation of passengers on a plane, whats going to happen to the passenger lounge thing being offered on these planes??

I think it only applies to Australian flights right? Anyway who is there to govern (US Authority) once the plane is on the air? :D

Originally posted by szehoong

I think it only applies to Australian flights right? Anyway who is there to govern (US Authority) once the plane is on the air? :D No loh! They are saying EVERY plane tt flies to the US have to comply to it! And these A345 are only going to fly to the US for now! I will love to noe what happens next! :D

Originally posted by huaiwei

No loh! They are saying EVERY plane tt flies to the US have to comply to it! And these A345 are only going to fly to the US for now! I will love to noe what happens next! :D

Wah...how are they gonna stop a group of aunties congregating at the lounge perhaps waiting for their turn to use the 'toilet-with-a-view'? I wonder how an ang moh gonna interrupt and stop them from chattering away at the lounge.....hehehe :lol:

The ruling is sounding more stupid the more I think of it...oh man. One fine day they wont allow one person to book a row of seats, or to let anyone change seating assignments.

Originally posted by huaiwei

The ruling is sounding more stupid the more I think of it...oh man. One fine day they wont allow one person to book a row of seats, or to let anyone change seating assignments.

When I first read bout the ruling I was like > :rofl:

US is getting funnier with their paranoia! :D

Oh...and they want screening for everyone except for some countries.....wow. So if I happen to want to bomb americana now, I can walk in without giving my particulars man, coz Singapore happen to be one of those exempted countries!

Thanks to them, it seems like our passport is going to be a even bigger prized item for international terrorists. Hope they dont break into my house. Mine is quite near the door. :D

Originally posted by huaiwei

Oh...and they want screening for everyone except for some countries.....wow. So if I happen to want to bomb americana now, I can walk in without giving my particulars man, coz Singapore happen to be one of those exempted countries!

Thanks to them, it seems like our passport is going to be a even bigger prized item for international terrorists. Hope they dont break into my house. Mine is quite near the door. :D

well........they kinda like silly lah.....but I like what Brazil did to the Americans.....anyway I dun think I am going to US anytime soon so it won't be affecting me. My dad's US visa is still valid....I wonder if it still applies.........he still got 7 years left till the Visa expires! ;)

this long flight is Singapore-LA right?

i remember seeing an advert for an Singapore-New York flight.. longest non-stop:?

Singapore-LA flight lanuches this month or was it next month? Singapore-NYC in April or June I think.

From the map, the SIN - NY flight crosses the Arctic Circle, is it true??
Cos. if it is, then it would be a sight to behold, flying over the Bearing Strait.

it crosses the arctic circle? but if i'm not mistaken it has been done before.

but route maps in paper are often confusing, and sometimes misleading.

well it would be a sight indeed, but remember, you fly over the clouds. ;)

16 Jan 2004

SINGAPORE Airlines (SIA) is offering 1,500 passengers a chance to experience its new luxury ultra-long-range Airbus for just $99.

The new A345 aircraft, which has wider seats and more leg room for passengers, will fly non-stop daily between Singapore and Los Angeles from Feb 3.

But from now until the end of the month - excluding the Chinese New Year period - the SIA plane will fly to Bangkok, Jakarta and Bali, and passengers need to pay only $99 for a one-way ticket and $199 for a round trip.

To enjoy the low fares, which exclude taxes and other charges, passengers have to travel in pairs.

SIA's normal fare for a round trip to Jakarta is $450. The fare to Bali is $300 and to Bangkok, $320.

Mr Wong Hong, the airline's area vice-president (Singapore), said: 'We decided this would be a good opportunity to let people check the new aircraft out and hopefully they will like it.'

SIA took out a half-page advertisement in The Straits Times yesterday to announce the special deals and, so far, sales have been 'encouraging', said Mr Wong.

One thing I just don't understand. $99 for one way. $199 for the round trip. Why does the 2nd leg costs more than the 1st???

Originally posted by Kit

One thing I just don't understand. $99 for one way. $199 for the round trip. Why does the 2nd leg costs more than the 1st???

Beats me. Might be a marketing gimmick..maybe $199 is more catchy than $198 and $200?

Originally posted by RafflesCity

Beats me. Might be a marketing gimmick..maybe $199 is more catchy than $198 and $200?

$188 would sound good also and makes a lot more sense.

Originally posted by Kit

$188 would sound good also and makes a lot more sense. Then people will be asking why the first price isnt $88 too coz it also makes more sense? :D

Flying towards the west (if I recollect correctly) usually costs more to the airline then to the east due to the jetstreams.....they have to consume more fuel, and the flight is also slightly longer due to the air currents.

But whether its the above reason that gives such wierd prices......I dont know! ;)

My point is, its usually cheaper to buy a one way return ticket than 2 one way tickets. E.g. A one way ticket to Melbourne costs about $500+, a 1 year one way return costs about $950.

If its more expensive to buy a one way return ticket, then might as well book 2 one way tickets.

Haha...they want u to come back using those ultra long flights then..in case you find your departure trip horrendous? :D

Whatever..... I'm moving away from SIA. All those Krisflyer points earned in 5 years can't redeem shit and they tell you they're going to expire. They even have the cheek to ask for more money to extend the expiry date.

On a recent trip to HK, a 1 way return ticket from United Airlines costs $200 less than what SQ is asking for. For a 3 hour trip, I'll take United Airlines anytime. BTW, I get more legroom on a United 747-400 than on SQ.

SIA has to get real and start realising that they have been standing still while others are fast catching up. Pricing themselves out of the market isn't doing them any favour. The services they offer are not that exclusive as they were 10 years ago.

The thing that irritates me about the KrisFlyer programme is that they deduct more points when you redeem a free flight than you would earn if you paid for the same trip. Then again I wouldnt be too surprised.

I have the impression that its cheaper for foreigners to fly SIA from outside Singapore than it is for locals; the LHR-SIN flights are always packed full with foreigners who are always flying to other destinations. And they do 3 planeloads a day on this sector.

Originally posted by RafflesCity

I have the impression that its cheaper for foreigners to fly SIA from outside Singapore than it is for locals; the LHR-SIN flights are always packed full with foreigners who are always flying to other destinations. And they do 3 planeloads a day on this sector. Precisely. I would think it is extremely well known by now to most frequent flyers of SIA that the premium they charge is actually only from certain locations, which includes their home base of Singapore. In fact, the prices are said to be very competitive, or even cheaper then stiff competitors on international legs, for eg on the Frankfurt to NYC routing purchased from NYC or Frankfurt. The simple reason why most allocades accorded to SIA seems to come from non-Singaporeans probably stems from this factor, coupled with the stereotypical demanding Singaporean cunsumer?

Of coz, everytime we hear a complain against service providers, it does make us wonder if the consumers themselves have any part to play in the whole scheme of things. Are we as a consumer too demanding, expecting to be treated as kings after paying a premium? I have hardly heard of any consumer who could actually list out what their demands are per dollar they pay.

For every Singaporean who complains about the airline, there is another who praises it. Which group falls into the majority, I dont know for now, but perhaps customer surveys might be a fruitful insight.

The tot that usually floats in my mind every time I hear the common complaint of "getting unacceptable service despite paying a premium".....those complainers probably cant stomach the extra cost, and are better of not paying the premium at all and take some other airline. Paying extra for that economy seat isnt gonna make a difference to the customer or the airline. Its the Raffles and First class that count.

So a paying customer doesn't have much right to compare and demand? I'm sure SIA would like more customers like you. Heck, you'd be the model customer for all airlines I guess.

Originally posted by Kit

So a paying customer doesn't have much right to compare and demand? I'm sure SIA would like more customers like you. Heck, you'd be the model customer for all airlines I guess. The fact is I have never taken a flight on SIA coz I cant afford it. I might complain, because as a Singaporean, I wonder why my national airline is charging me a premium, but at the same time, I consider it a testimony of our airline's success. But never will you find me sqeezing every last cent out of my pocket to get on an SIA plane and then demanding the world from them.

Originally posted by huaiwei

The fact is I have never taken a flight on SIA coz I cant afford it. I might complain, because as a Singaporean, I wonder why my national airline is charging me a premium, but at the same time, I consider it a testimony of our airline's success. But never will you find me sqeezing every last cent out of my pocket to get on an SIA plane and then demanding the world from them.

Then perhaps you should try it out one of these days and compare it with other airlines. Like I said, SIA has lost its exclusivity over the past 10 years and they don't seem to realise that. Others are catching up hard and fast. Of course, it would be a little hard for someone who hasn't travelled with them to understand that. Afterall, they themselves don't get it still. Paying a premium for exclusivity is true 10 years ago, not now.

and also, join Krisflyer only if you fly very very very frequently aka once a month to New York or London. You don't want to be the loyal customer who has been accumulating points for the past 5 years only to be told that they will expire before you can even use them to redeem anything. Adding salt to the wound, they ask you for a "nominal fee" to keep it alive for 3 more freaking months. How's that for premium service eh?

Originally posted by Kit

Then perhaps you should try it out one of these days and compare it with other airlines. Like I said, SIA has lost its exclusivity over the past 10 years and they don't seem to realise that. Others are catching up hard and fast. Of course, it would be a little hard for someone who hasn't travelled with them to understand that. Afterall, they themselves don't get it still. Paying a premium for exclusivity is true 10 years ago, not now. So you have taken SIA and other airlines for the last 10 years, and your service expectations and perceptory levels has remained constant troughout that period? I would think we tend to expect more and more as time goes by...

And as I already mentioned earlier....SIA generally dont really care much about local customers, be it in terms of prices or even cases of discrminatory treatment by staff on the ground and in the planes. I have heard more then enough horror stories, but I leave my opinions open until I take those flights myself. Till then, I prefer to stick to my mentioned position, and that is complaints could be met by unreasonable remands. I leave it to the benefit of the doubt.

and I'm not expected to be treated like a king just because I paid more. I'm asking them to start looking at where they stand instead of putting up the exclusive label all the time which they don't own anymore.

Originally posted by Kit

and also, join Krisflyer only if you fly very very very frequently aka once a month to New York or London. You don't want to be the loyal customer who has been accumulating points for the past 5 years only to be told that they will expire before you can even use them to redeem anything. Adding salt to the wound, they ask you for a "nominal fee" to keep it alive for 3 more freaking months. How's that for premium service eh? Whats the market practice when it comes to frequent flyer programs?

Originally posted by Kit

and I'm not expected to be treated like a king just because I paid more. I'm asking them to start looking at where they stand instead of putting up the exclusive label all the time which they don't own anymore. Not sure if you flew on thair Raffles or First class frequently or not, but quite apprantly, their "exclusivity" is mainly confined to those two classes. And yes, those two classes certainly do still command quite an impressive edge over others, except for the very best airlines in the world?

Originally posted by huaiwei

So you have taken SIA and other airlines for the last 10 years, and your service expectations and perceptory levels has remained constant troughout that period? I would think we tend to expect more and more as time goes by...

And as I already mentioned earlier....SIA generally dont really care much about local customers, be it in terms of prices or even cases of discrminatory treatment by staff on the ground and in the planes. I have heard more then enough horror stories, but I leave my opinions open until I take those flights myself. Till then, I prefer to stick to my mentioned position, and that is complaints could be met by unreasonable remands. I leave it to the benefit of the doubt.

What makes you think that every complaints aroused from unreasonable demands? I'm happy with the services of the cabin crew but why pay more if we can get the same level of services elsewhere at a cheaper rate? A flight is a flight. 10 years ago and now makes no difference. So why should expectations change that much? Like I said, its not about the quality of the service but the price you pay for it.

Originally posted by huaiwei

Not sure if you flew on thair Raffles or First class frequently or not, but quite apprantly, their "exclusivity" is mainly confined to those two classes. And yes, those two classes certainly do still command quite an impressive edge over others, except for the very best airlines in the world?

So they probably would want to take that exculsive label off their economy price tag?

and I sure hope they can still sell tickets to patroit Singaporeans in future who thinks the world of them because they're just about what they'll be left with I'm afraid.

Originally posted by Kit

What makes you think that every complaints aroused from unreasonable demands? I'm happy with the services of the cabin crew but why pay more if we can get the same level of services elsewhere at a cheaper rate? A flight is a flight. 10 years ago and now makes no difference. So why should expectations change that much? Like I said, its not about the quality of the service but the price you pay for it. Well, I did say I am leaving it to the benefit of the doubt. There is a "possibility", and not a "certainty." I would think my stand is quite clear by now.

Well, if prices are really too high on SIA, then just do what I did: take another airline, as you mentioned you would earlier. There will always be people ready to fork out that extra for something they tot is probably better, or they feel makes them feel more "high-class"....if you get what I mean. Such a typical Singaporean attitude! :D

Originally posted by Kit

So they probably would want to take that exculsive label off their economy price tag? Of coz as a potential consumer, I would prefer that they do that too in terms of cheaper flights. But do high prices neccesarily mean an "exclusivity" label?

Its no different from buying branded goods. I doubt every comparable stuff on the market has better quality or satisfying factors based on prices alone. Why should I be constantly paying tt extra for Sony or Nike products, when we all know their production costs are dirt cheap and they are mostly comparable with cheaper alternatives in terms of functionality?

Its all a part of the marketing world I suppose.

Flying to and fro Melbourne with many Singaporeans, I don't really sense a discontentment with cabin crew service, let alone any cause to complain. For people who fly frequently, a flight is a flight. Its still tiring, can't get much sleep, thristy, etc.

Originally posted by huaiwei

Of coz as a potential consumer, I would prefer that they do that too in terms of cheaper flights. But do high prices neccesarily mean an "exclusivity" label?

Yes! If you price yourself way above the market.

Originally posted by Kit

Flying to and fro Melbourne with many Singaporeans, I don't really sense a discontentment with cabin crew service, let alone any cause to complain. If they dont complain, Im afraid your demands for them to drop their "exclusive" prices might not be realised soon....

Originally posted by Kit

Yes! If you price yourself way above the market. Refer to my previous edited post. Its all about buying "branded" stuff......you pay for "boasting rights"?

Originally posted by huaiwei

If they dont complain, Im afraid your demands for them to drop their "exclusive" prices might not be realised soon....

So now what? Complain and risked being accused of being a typical Singaporean or not to complain?

Originally posted by huaiwei

Refer to my previous edited post. Its all about buying "branded" stuff......you pay for "boasting rights"?

Well, if you think taking an SIA flight is something to boast about, then go ahead, take a flight and boast about it. I prefer to remain pragmatic, my money goes to whoever offers the best value for money services.

I would be quite naive for an airline to think they could bank on giving something for their customers to boast in the long run.

I dont see any reason why you would think I want to boast about SIA flights or anything. I am merely explaining their higher costs, but does that amount to me endorsing their practise? Do you not see that I too lament the same complaint of them charging too high for your everyday Singaporean?

It is perfectly ok to raise our displeasures against anything, but its better to accompany it with unbiased judgement and at least attempting to understand the issue at hand from as many possible perspectives as possible. That, I consider, it NOT typical of the majority of Singaporeans, unfortunately. Naturally, even I too fall into that category too at times, thou I try to keep out of it where ever possible.

Originally posted by Kit

I would be quite naive for an airline to think they could bank on giving something for their customers to boast in the long run. Thats exactly what they did for the past decades, and very successfully too. I wont call it an ethical practice when it comes to budget-conscious travellers thou.

Anyway, if you have been keeping up with recent news about the aviation industy, you might be glad to know that major shake-ups can be expected for SIA. I do not know if that amounts to a simple drop of fares, but at least they appear to be very much aware of the same situation you have been talking about...

Originally posted by huaiwei

I dont see any reason why you would think I want to boast about SIA flights or anything. I am merely explaining their higher costs, but does that amount to me endorsing their practise? Do you not see that I too lament the same complaint of them charging too high for your everyday Singaporean?

It is perfectly ok to raise our displeasures against anything, but its better to accompany it with unbiased judgement and at least attempting to understand the issue at hand from as many possible perspectives as possible. That, I consider, it NOT typical of the majority of Singaporeans, unfortunately. Naturally, even I too fall into that category too at times, thou I try to keep out of it where ever possible.

I'll only see this issue from the perspective of a traveller. Any attempts to try to even understand where they come from is a waste of time because for a service orientated company, the outcome and services(and that includes pricing policies) is of utmost importance. As for finding out where they come from, I'll leave it to aviation historians once they become history.

Originally posted by huaiwei

Thats exactly what they did for the past decades, and very successfully too. I wont call it an ethical practice when it comes to budget-conscious travellers thou.

Anyway, if you have been keeping up with recent news about the aviation industy, you might be glad to know that major shake-ups can be expected for SIA. I do not know if that amounts to a simple drop of fares, but at least they appear to be very much aware of the same situation you have been talking about...

Like you said in the Open Singapore thread. Listening and being aware doesn't mean anything if you don't act.

Originally posted by Kit

I'll only see this issue from the perspective of a traveller. Any attempts to try to even understand where they come from is a waste of time because for a service orientated company, the outcome and services(and that includes pricing policies) is of utmost importance. As for finding out where they come from, I'll leave it to aviation historians once they become history. An uninformed compaint isnt likely to get the attention of the people who should be listening, and tend to fall by the wayside. This is the same even when it comes to service industries. Of coz, those few companies who actually do listen to every complain get their business.

One wonders if this applies to SIA.

Originally posted by Kit

Like you said in the Open Singapore thread. Listening and being aware doesn't mean anything if you don't act. But listening and being aware is a crucial first step from the days of no listening at all.

Then again, SIA dont give me the impression of being a non-listener generally. But of coz, they tend to listen only to certain kinds of passengers. You know what I mean. They are supposed to be a profit-making company, even if they also happen to be government-linked.

Well I've been travelling fairly regularly on SIA and I got to say that their KrisWorld entertainment service is pretty good. More choices including the REWIND and PAUSE option which is really useful. Internet check-in, picking of seats etc. Thats in economy.

Cant really compare to other airlines the most recent I travelled was Lauda Air and while SIA offer 2 choices for both meals, Lauda offers a choice only for 1; the 2nd meal is fixed, so I do see a difference in amenities; I believe SIA actually spends more on services/facilities and upgrades.

Anyway every flight experience would depend on the individual..and I personally bring a bottle of water on every flight I take :cheers:

Originally posted by huaiwei

An uninformed compaint isnt likely to get the attention of the people who should be listening, and tend to fall by the wayside. This is the same even when it comes to service industries. Of coz, those few companies who actually do listen to every complain get their business.

One wonders if this applies to SIA.

You have a wonderfully idealistic way of looking at how things work. Get real. When you're providing a service, you'll be only judged by how good your service is, how well you execute your ideas and how much you want them for. That's it. Nobody will give a damn about how its being executed as long as its licit. Imagine every consumer has to make a background check on every company or individual they complain against to CASE. Does that happen? Nope, it doesn't. I also doubt SIA would bother explaining where they come from to every single individual who complain against them. When someone lodges a complain, it is up to take the initiative to follow up and hopefully come out with a satisfactory answer. That's how it works.

Originally posted by RafflesCity

Well I've been travelling fairly regularly on SIA and I got to say that their KrisWorld entertainment service is pretty good. More choices including the REWIND and PAUSE option which is really useful. Internet check-in, picking of seats etc. Thats in economy.

Cant really compare to other airlines the most recent I travelled was Lauda Air and while SIA offer 2 choices for both meals, Lauda offers a choice only for 1; the 2nd meal is fixed, so I do see a difference in amenities; I believe SIA actually spends more on services/facilities and upgrades.

Anyway every flight experience would depend on the individual..and I personally bring a bottle of water on every flight I take :cheers:

The programmes on Krisworld are played in a continuous cycle. No rewind but you have a chance to see it again if your flight is long enough. Definitely no pause unless you're talking about the games.

Also, picking of seats depends on situation. Most of the time(from what I've experienced), you can't.

Originally posted by huaiwei

An uninformed compaint isnt likely to get the attention of the people who should be listening, and tend to fall by the wayside. This is the same even when it comes to service industries. Of coz, those few companies who actually do listen to every complain get their business.

One wonders if this applies to SIA.

and if you're running a service orientated company, you'd better take every complaint seriously be it "informed" or "uninformed". And who's to judge if a complaint is informed or not? Who is qualified to make an "informed" complaint? Its just unrealistic to demand that.

Originally posted by Kit

The programmes on Krisworld are played in a continuous cycle. No rewind but you have a chance to see it again if your flight is long enough. Definitely no pause unless you're talking about the games.

Also, picking of seats depends on situation. Most of the time(from what I've experienced), you can't.

Definitely there is pause! Its part of the Video-on-demand facility.
You can watch the same programme as many times as you like as opposed to waiting for it to repeat the cycle. That is an improvement over the previous system.

Internet check-in is available in Singapore and I assume major cities. You got to supply your KrisFlyer number when making your reservation though.Alternatively I've also tried telephone check-in.

Originally posted by RafflesCity

Definitely there is pause! Its part of the Video-on-demand facility.
You can watch the same programme as many times as you like as opposed to waiting for it to repeat the cycle. That is an improvement over the previous system.

Internet check-in is available in Singapore and I assume major cities. You got to supply your KrisFlyer number when making your reservation though.Alternatively I've also tried telephone check-in.

Well, maybe you were lucky to get the Video-on-demand thingy. Its not available on flights to Melbourne and HK for sure.

Originally posted by Kit

You have a wonderfully idealistic way of looking at how things work. Get real. When you're providing a service, you'll be only judged by how good your service is, how well you execute your ideas and how much you want them for. That's it. Nobody will give a damn about how its being executed as long as its licit. Imagine every consumer has to make a background check on every company or individual they complain against to CASE. Does that happen? Nope, it doesn't. I also doubt SIA would bother explaining where they come from to every single individual who complain against them. When someone lodges a complain, it is up to take the initiative to follow up and hopefully come out with a satisfactory answer. That's how it works. The real world? So just how effective is CASE in this regard, by the way? I wonder if you ever worked in the service industry before (which I have, and its an extremely reputable company too, for your info), but I personally witnessed feedback being filtered all the time. You real world invovlves all companies acting on every single complain case to the satisfaction of the customer? That dosent sound that realistic either.

Originally posted by Kit

The programmes on Krisworld are played in a continuous cycle. No rewind but you have a chance to see it again if your flight is long enough. Definitely no pause unless you're talking about the games.

Also, picking of seats depends on situation. Most of the time(from what I've experienced), you can't. Have you ever tired taking Cathay, which is supposed to be the best airline according to skytrack online serveys? I took their economy class, its a new 777 plane, and it hardly matches any of the points raffi mentioned, not counting the cabin ambience and other astetics which cant be quantified accurately. The only other thing that matches was the choices in meals, but its no better by any significant margin. Not to mention I wont forget the English slang spewing from the stewardess' mouth.

But Im not complaining...coz I didnt have to pay a premium for that. ;)

Originally posted by Kit

and if you're running a service orientated company, you'd better take every complaint seriously be it "informed" or "uninformed". And who's to judge if a complaint is informed or not? Who is qualified to make an "informed" complaint? Its just unrealistic to demand that. As mentioned above, it is equally unrealistic to expect any company to react to every input from customers, be it informed/uninformed, formal/informal, verbal/writtern/electronic, or watever. And of coz, ask yourself how much you are worth to the company's bottom line. That is the real world I know, which is hardly idealistic. It speaks of cold hard corporatisation.

Originally posted by huaiwei

The real world? So just how effective is CASE in this regard, by the way? I wonder if you ever worked in the service industry before (which I have, and its an extremely reputable company too, for your info), but I personally witnessed feedback being filtered all the time. You real world invovlves all companies acting on every single complain case to the satisfaction of the customer? That dosent sound that realistic either.

Yes I did worked in the service industries before since you brought that up. Be real and be smart. You don't react to every complaint. You analyse every complaint and seek what you're lacking and improve yourself. Common sense.

Originally posted by huaiwei

Have you ever tired taking Cathay, which is supposed to be the best airline according to skytrack online serveys? I took their economy class, its a new 777 plane, and it hardly matches any of the points raffi mentioned, not counting the cabin ambience and other astetics which cant be quantified accurately. The only other thing that matches was the choices in meals, but its no better by any significant margin. Not to mention I wont forget the English slang spewing from the stewardess' mouth.

But Im not complaining...coz I didnt have to pay a premium for that. ;)

Sure sounds like a complaint and a comparison between services to me.

Originally posted by huaiwei

As mentioned above, it is equally unrealistic to expect any company to react to every input from customers, be it informed/uninformed, formal/informal, verbal/writtern/electronic, or watever. And of coz, ask yourself how much you are worth to the company's bottom line. That is the real world I know, which is hardly idealistic. It speaks of cold hard corporatisation.

Funny, that's not what Mr Clements said the last time he responded to some complaints on the forum. Don't know, maybe he a hypocrite and plaing the PR game........ as usual. You tell me.

As a spending consumer, if his/her contributions are not appreciated(and that doesn't take an idiot to figure out) then being the smart one, he/she will take the money somewhere else. Air travelling business is getting more competitive fast. So these people will have to decide how long they want to stay in the game.

Originally posted by Kit

Yes I did worked in the service industries before since you brought that up. Be real and be smart. You don't react to every complaint. You analyse every complaint and seek what you're lacking and improve yourself. Common sense. And that sounds like a contradiction of what you said earlier.

Originally posted by Kit

Sure sounds like a complaint and a comparison between services to me. So? I dont think I discounted my liberty to complain at any time, if you see that as a complaint that is.

Originally posted by Kit

Funny, that's not what Mr Clements said the last time he responded to some complaints on the forum. Don't know, maybe he a hypocrite and plaing the PR game........ as usual. You tell me.

As a spending consumer, if his/her contributions are not appreciated(and that doesn't take an idiot to figure out) then being the smart one, he/she will take the money somewhere else. Air travelling business is getting more competitive fast. So these people will have to decide how long they want to stay in the game. Sounds as thou air customers only just realised they can use their money to make a business statement...

Try asking Mr Clements to say contrary to what customers are expecting to hear. Duh.

Originally posted by huaiwei

And that sounds like a contradiction of what you said earlier.

Does analysing all complaints to improve means filtering? Nope. You still go through each and one of them and "summerise".

Originally posted by huaiwei

So? I dont think I discounted my liberty to complain at any time, if you see that as a complaint that is.

Amazing this is coming from you since you're so critical of those who complain to the extend of being stereotyping.

Originally posted by huaiwei

Sounds as thou air customers only just realised they can use their money to make a business statement...

Try asking Mr Clements to say contrary to what customers are expecting to hear. Duh.

Yeah, I dare him to do that and see how long they'll survive.

Originally posted by Kit

Does analysing all complaints to improve means filtering? Nope. You still go through each and one of them and "summerise". So when you here a compain, think its ridiculous, and promptly throws it out of the window...that can be considered analysing and summerising the complaint, is it not?

Originally posted by huaiwei

So when you here a compain, think its ridiculous, and promptly throws it out of the window...that can be considered analysing and summerising the complaint, is it not?

When did I throw it out of the window? I still standby my beliefs firmly. It is up to SIA to shape up or ship out.

Originally posted by Kit

Amazing this is coming from you since you're so critical of those who complain to the extend of being stereotyping. Isnt being critical a part of criticism? By criticising someone else's baseless complaints, is that not a complaint?

I dont find that contradictory or surprising. I believe in constructive complaints, as I mentioned so many damn times. I tot you have great memories when it comes to remembering grudges, but you dont seem to remember the important specifics. Go ahead and quote me.

Originally posted by Kit

When did I throw it out of the window? I still standby my beliefs firmly. It is up to SIA to shape up or ship out. Im saying that as an example lah....aiyoh....Now I am asking YOU, not SIA.

Originally posted by Kit

Yeah, I dare him to do that and see how long they'll survive. The fact is you and I know he wont, so why bring him up?

Originally posted by huaiwei

Isnt being critical a part of criticism? By criticising someone else's baseless complaints, is that not a complaint?

I dont find that contradictory or surprising. I believe in constructive complaints, as I mentioned so many damn times. I tot you have great memories when it comes to remembering grudges, but you dont seem to remember the important specifics. Go ahead and quote me.

Grudges? What grudges? Perhaps I should refresh your memory? I once said I speak only my mind, being appreciated or not doesn't matter. I only respond to what's being said in an individual thread.

I'll have to ask you again..... how do you quantify "constructive complaints"?

Originally posted by huaiwei

Im saying that as an example lah....aiyoh....Now I am asking YOU, not SIA.

Asking what?

Originally posted by huaiwei

The fact is you and I know he wont, so why bring him up?

Because SIA seems to make him the face of the company. If I can't quote what he said, who can I quote? You?

Originally posted by Kit

Grudges? What grudges? Perhaps I should refresh your memory? I once said I speak only my mind, being appreciated or not doesn't matter. I only respond to what's being said in an individual thread.

I'll have to ask you again..... how do you quantify "constructive complaints"? Quantify constructive complains? Erm...brother...which school did you come from? Surely you know the value of perceptory judgements? And did you ask me that again in quantifying terms?

When I feel your compaints are non-constructive, they ARE non constructive in MY terms. How about that? ;)

Oh, of coz you remember only what you said...but do you remember what others said?

Originally posted by Kit

Asking what? Please refer to the above. Of coz I jus realised you dont remember what people say...;)

Originally posted by Kit

Because SIA seems to make him the face of the company. If I can't quote what he said, who can I quote? You? Ah boy ah....if you want to argue hor...there are certain skills required one leh...your above quotation sounds abit the low quality. You brought up that guy and ask a qn about him when you already know the answer, then now come and tell me you dunno who else to bring up.....I seriously think thats your own problem liao loh...you go and find your own facts to substantiate your own "arguments" (or lack of it)...dont ask me.

Originally posted by huaiwei

Isnt being critical a part of criticism? By criticising someone else's baseless complaints, is that not a complaint?

I dont find that contradictory or surprising. I believe in constructive complaints, as I mentioned so many damn times. I tot you have great memories when it comes to remembering grudges, but you dont seem to remember the important specifics. Go ahead and quote me.

and point out that baseless complaint please........ was it the fact that I got more legroom on other airlines? Was it the fact that my points went expired before I can use them? Or was it the part when I said they wanted more money to keep the points alive? A complaint is based on personal experience that would sometime be hard to quantify but are they baseless? Not sure about you but no many are fond of wasting precious time make so called baseless complaints, including myself. As you said, knowing how the companies wold react to these complaints, you don't stand to gain anything.

Originally posted by huaiwei

Ah boy ah....if you want to argue hor...there are certain skills required one leh...your above quotation sounds abit the low quality. You brought up that guy and ask a qn about him when you already know the answer, then now come and tell me you dunno who else to bring up.....I seriously think thats your own problem liao loh...you go and find your own facts to substantiate your own "arguments" (or lack of it)...dont ask me.

It might be a simple question. Do you have an answer for that?

and btw I don't argue for the sake of it so I don't spend time formulating so called techniques. I just get my point across.

Originally posted by Kit

and point out that baseless complaint please........ was it the fact that I got more legroom on other airlines? Was it the fact that my points went expired before I can use them? Or was it the part when I said they wanted more money to keep the points alive? A complaint is based on personal experience that would sometime be hard to quantify but are they baseless? Not sure about you but no many are fond of wasting precious time make so called baseless complaints, including myself. As you said, knowing how the companies wold react to these complaints, you don't stand to gain anything. Take note of the complaint I was picking on, and that is your insistance that SIA was charging a premium when it should not. And if all the above you mentioned is supposed to be the various points to substantiate your argument, then may I ask if you can also point out any perks and bonuses you happen to enjoy with SIA compared to other airlines?

Its strange why it takes another member to point those out when you could not. How does that reflect on your arument? Well of coz, you seem to be unfortunate enough not to enjoy the inflight entertainment raffi enjoyed on your flights. My sympathy goes to you.

Then again, am I still sounding like a PAP-Temasek Holdings-SIA lackey you seem to think I am? Talk about stereotyping...

Originally posted by Kit

It might be a simple question. Do you have an answer for that? Simply put, I dont. Does that make you happier? Dunno why it should, when it actually means I can find anything to substantiate YOUR argument. I dont give cheap favours.

Originally posted by Kit

and btw I don't argue for the sake of it so I don't spend time formulating so called techniques. I just get my point across. Nice try.....after 181 posts, your foruming behavior is for all the world to see and to form their own impressions.

Didnt anyone tell you that when you point a finger at someone, three other fingers point back at you?

Originally posted by huaiwei

Take note of the complaint I was picking on, and that is your insistance that SIA was charging a premium when it should not. And if all the above you mentioned is supposed to be the various points to substantiate your argument, then may I ask if you can also point out any perks and bonuses you happen to enjoy with SIA compared to other airlines?

Its strange why it takes another member to point those out when you could not. How does that reflect on your arument? Well of coz, you seem to be unfortunate enough not to enjoy the inflight entertainment raffi enjoyed on your flights. My sympathy goes to you.

Then again, am I still sounding like a PAP-Temasek Holdings-SIA lackey you seem to think I am? Talk about stereotyping...

Read my messages again. I said I'm happy with the service I've got gtom the cabin crew. Its the pricing policies and Krisflyer programme that I take issue with.

As for the extra inflight entertainment that others enjoyed, I don't need and don't really care. Existing ones are good enough for me. Raffles pointed out those perks because he has experienced them before, I didn't but as mentioned before, I don't care.

Lackey is a term you used on yourself. I don't stereotype.

Originally posted by huaiwei

Simply put, I dont. Does that make you happier? Dunno why it should, when it actually means I can find anything to substantiate YOUR argument. I dont give cheap favours.

My experience with SIA automatically substantiates my claims. Do you have any?

Originally posted by huaiwei

Nice try.....after 181 posts, your foruming behavior is for all the world to see and to form their own impressions.

Didnt anyone tell you that when you point a finger at someone, three other fingers point back at you?

Like I said, I don't care how many fingers pointing at me. I speak my mind.

Originally posted by Kit

Read my messages again. I said I'm happy with the service I've got gtom the cabin crew. Its the pricing policies and Krisflyer programme that I take issue with.

As for the extra inflight entertainment that others enjoyed, I don't need and don't really care. Existing ones are good enough for me. Raffles pointed out those perks because he has experienced them before, I didn't but as mentioned before, I don't care.

Lackey is a term you used on yourself. I don't stereotype. Hm...and I was asking you about specifics when it comes to pricing policies as well as asking you what is the frequent flyer program like for other airlines, which you failed to respond to anyway.

Am I not asking you specifically about your compaints?

You dont stereotype?Originally posted by Kit

and I sure hope they can still sell tickets to patroit Singaporeans in future who thinks the world of them because they're just about what they'll be left with I'm afraid. May I know who made this comment?

Originally posted by Kit

My experience with SIA automatically substantiates my claims. Do you have any? Wow...so you are utlitsing "bragging rights" after being an SIA customer too already, I see!! :D

If you are talking about pricing policies, I dont need to be their customer to feel the pain. The fact is I was deprived from their service thanks to that. So do I not have any rights to discuss about this? ;)

Originally posted by huaiwei

Hm...and I was asking you about specifics when it comes to pricing policies as well as asking you what is the frequent flyer program like for other airlines, which you failed to respond to anyway.

Am I not asking you specifically about your compaints?

You dont stereotype?May I know who made this comment?

I don't know about what's being offered by other airlines beacuse I never went shopping for one except for SIA's. If you think one can only make a substantial complaint only when he/she has experienced similar services offered by other companies then that's your choice. I'll only substantiate my claims based on real experiences I have with the company I deal with. Come to think of it, do you think they'll be interested in listening to you comparisons with other companies? I don't think so and I think I don't have to tell you what they'll do to sweep that aside do you?

Originally posted by Kit

Like I said, I don't care how many fingers pointing at me. I speak my mind. I dont remember you ever saying you have 3 fingers pointing at yah. ;)

You sure can speak your mind......please go on, but please expect to be drilled/questioned/interrogated based on your comments, and be prepared to put forth your case in a sensible, coherent, and mature manner contrary to what seems to be happening here.

I once mentioned I particularly dislike forumers who behave like "dive bombers"......come in, make a statement, and then scram off without bothering to explain their statements as thou it is their eternal right to say anything due to the so called "freedom of speech"....

Not sure if you fall into that category thou. Time will tell.

Originally posted by huaiwei

Wow...so you are utlitsing "bragging rights" after being an SIA customer too already, I see!! :D

If you are talking about pricing policies, I dont need to be their customer to feel the pain. The fact is I was deprived from their service thanks to that. So do I not have any rights to discuss about this? ;)

If you think using my experience to complain about a company equates to bragging, then I'd rather not brag.

You've been saying one has to substantiate one's arguement. I don't see how a person with absolutely no experience with a company at all can substantiate his/her arguement in relevant issues.

Originally posted by huaiwei

I dont remember you ever saying you have 3 fingers pointing at yah. ;)

You sure can speak your mind......please go on, but please expect to be drilled/questioned/interrogated based on your comments, and be prepared to put forth your case in a sensible, coherent, and mature manner contrary to what seems to be happening here.

I once mentioned I particularly dislike forumers who behave like "dive bombers"......come in, make a statement, and then scram off without bothering to explain their statements as thou it is their eternal right to say anything due to the so called "freedom of speech"....

Not sure if you fall into that category thou. Time will tell.

Look at the number of posts I've had in here. Do you think I dive bomb? Even the Japs are sensible enough to know you can't bomb Pearl Harbor more than once. I do know the difference of rights to free speech and abusing the rights to free speech.

Originally posted by Kit

I don't know about what's being offered by other airlines beacuse I never went shopping for one except for SIA's. If you think one can only make a substantial complaint only when he/she has experienced similar services offered by other companies then that's your choice. I'll only substantiate my claims based on real experiences I have with the company I deal with. Come to think of it, do you think they'll be interested in listening to you comparisons with other companies? I don't think so and I think I don't have to tell you what they'll do to sweep that aside do you? Thats so very wrong. Companies ALWAYS compare with each other. They set benchmarks against each other. Normal profit-making companies wont offer too much value for money for customers, but simply offer at a level slightly more then their competitor, the final level of which is up to their professional judgement.

Oh, and no...you dont need to try other ppl's services to make a constructive complaint. But then, most of your complaints are based on comparisons, wasent it? dunno why you turn all defensive jus coz you dont seem to know anything about the terms in other airlines' frequent flyer programs. I dont know too, which is why I asked you. Am I hurting your pride for asking a question you cant answer? If so, my apologies.

Originally posted by huaiwei

Wow...so you are utlitsing "bragging rights" after being an SIA customer too already, I see!! :D

If you are talking about pricing policies, I dont need to be their customer to feel the pain. The fact is I was deprived from their service thanks to that. So do I not have any rights to discuss about this? ;)

Being deprived of their services is in a totally different league as to those who have been screwed not once but twice.

Originally posted by huaiwei

Thats so very wrong. Companies ALWAYS compare with each other. They set benchmarks against each other. Normal profit-making companies wont offer too much value for money for customers, but simply offer at a level slightly more then their competitor, the final level of which is up to their professional judgement.

Oh, and no...you dont need to try other ppl's services to make a constructive complaint. But then, most of your complaints are based on comparisons, wasent it? dunno why you turn all defensive jus coz you dont seem to know anything about the terms in other airlines' frequent flyer programs. I dont know too, which is why I asked you. Am I hurting your pride for asking a question you cant answer? If so, my apologies.

It takes more than that I'm afraid. Try harder.

I made comments based on actual experiences with various companies. I don't need to know everything by hand to know who is offering better value for money services. To me, being screwed by one reveals everything, no matter what they have behind them to substantiate that.

Originally posted by Kit

Look at the number of posts I've had in here. Do you think I dive bomb? Even the Japs are sensible enough to know you can't bomb Pearl Harbor more than once. I do know the difference of rights to free speech and abusing the rights to free speech. Well, then very good. I like to see you are attempting NOT to be an irritant. But in this forums, there are lots of "kids" out there from the so-called liberal societies of the earth who claim they have "the right to say anything coz its their personal opinion and no one has the right to make any comments about their personal opinions"......does that amount to abuse? Or is it the virtues of free speech?

Originally posted by Kit

Being deprived of their services is in a totally different league as to those who have been screwed not once but twice. Erm....wait.....you took just two flights on SIA?? I all along had the impression you are a more frequent flyer with them....

Originally posted by huaiwei

Erm....wait.....you took just two flights on SIA??

I took more than 20 flights in all.

When I said being screwed, I meant their pricing and Krisflyer policies, nothing to do with their inflight services. I do have the misfortune of having a faulty personal monitor once but since its a short flight, no biggie.

Originally posted by huaiwei

Well, then very good. I like to see you are attempting NOT to be an irritant. But in this forums, there are lots of "kids" out there from the so-called liberal societies of the earth who claim they have "the right to say anything coz its their personal opinion and no one has the right to make any comments about their personal opinions"......does that amount to abuse? Or is it the virtues of free speech?

I'm involved in at least 5 other forums for the past 3 years. I won't survive that long if I were one of them.

Originally posted by Kit

It takes more than that I'm afraid. Try harder.

I made comments based on actual experiences with various companies. I don't need to know everything by hand to know who is offering better value for money services. To me, being screwed by one reveals everything, no matter what they have behind them to substantiate that. Well, if your first comment is your message to service companies, then no wonder you are a miserable guy now.

You jus said you dont have to try other ppl's services, or know what others offer to complain, and now you say you do. As you said, I would think that logically, you still need to know "enough" of the competition to know you are short-changed. So that would logically work when it comes to your complaints about prices, but...Im still genuinely curious about your frequent flyer thingy.....

I mean....wont you think its laugable if you realise you are arguing against industry practice, is it turns out to be so? Its like folks who pay too much on budget airlines and say their ads are deceiving....

Originally posted by Kit

I took more than 20 flights in all.

When I said being screwed, I meant their pricing and Krisflyer policies, nothing to do with their inflight services. I do have the misfortune of having a faulty personal monitor once but since its a short flight, no biggie. And they are basically on the Sg-Melbourne and HK sectors?

Raffi is a regular customer on the Ldh-sg sector. Perhaps those customers are more valued when it comes to SIA....

Originally posted by Kit

I'm involved in at least 5 other forums for the past 3 years. I won't survive that long if I were one of them. Good. I would be embarrased if any Singaporean displays that kind of behavior on any international forum. Seems to reflect on our endless desires for "free speech", yet not knowing what it entails...

Then again, the same thing happens to just about any kid out there who cant graps the meaning of free speech in any society anyway.

Originally posted by huaiwei

Well, if your first comment is your message to service companies, then no wonder you are a miserable guy now.

You jus said you dont have to try other ppl's services, or know what others offer to complain, and now you say you do. As you said, I would think that logically, you still need to know "enough" of the competition to know you are short-changed. So that would logically work when it comes to your complaints about prices, but...Im still genuinely curious about your frequent flyer thingy.....

I mean....wont you think its laugable if you realise you are arguing against industry practice, is it turns out to be so? Its like folks who pay too much on budget airlines and say their ads are deceiving....

About the prices, comparisons are everywhere. You don't even have to use their services. Just walk in to any tour agencies. Ask for a package price from various airlines. It won't be difficult to see who will come up on "top".

Originally posted by huaiwei

And they are basically on the Sg-Melbourne and HK sectors?

Raffi is a regular customer on the Ldh-sg sector. Perhaps those customers are more valued when it comes to SIA....

SG-Melbourne, SG-KL, SG-Tokyo, SG-HK, SG-Sydney to name a few. I don't know if SIA value some customers more than others but I do know my money will goes to anyone who gives me a better deal.

Originally posted by Kit

About the prices, comparisons are everywhere. You don't even have to use their services. Just walk in to any tour agencies. Ask for a package price from various airlines. It won't be difficult to see who will come up on "top". I just told you SIA priced me out. I am quite sure I was a victim of that everytime I take a flight.

Originally posted by huaiwei

I just told you SIA priced me out. I am quite sure I was a victim of that everytime I take a flight.

You missed nothing.

Originally posted by Kit

SG-Melbourne, SG-KL, SG-Tokyo, SG-HK, SG-Sydney to name a few. I don't know if SIA value some customers more than others but I do know my money will goes to anyone who gives me a better deal. SIA might be happier just operating the more profitable long haul routes......leave the regional routes to tiger airways, where people have no reason to complain :D

Not trying to "brag" again but many people take SQ flights just for the heck of it. The novelty will wear off for the more frequent flyers and they'll start to compare, not the cabin services but prices and the value for money factor.

Originally posted by Kit

You missed nothing. But the perks you also mentioned sounds tantalising leh.....:D

Originally posted by Kit

Not trying to "brag" again but many people take SQ flights just for the heck of it. The novelty will wear off for the more frequent flyers and they'll start to compare, not the cabin services but prices and the value for money factor. After 5 pages of posts, finally there is a concensus of sorts. Its all about branding and the bragging rights. It dosent take alot of effort to look beyond that, as I suppose you have already done so.

Originally posted by huaiwei

SIA might be happier just operating the more profitable long haul routes......leave the regional routes to tiger airways, where people have no reason to complain :D

Which might be true, air travelling especially regional travel are getting more and more in demand.

Bring profitable is one thing but being an airline that represents a country and her people, I would expect them to make certain considerations for Singaporeans even if it means a small reduction in profits. How much does it take to keep frequent flyer points alive may I ask? Don't know, I'm stereotyping myself as a patroitic Singaporean here.

Originally posted by huaiwei

But the perks you also mentioned sounds tantalising leh.....:D

Well, perhaps for the first few flights and your luck. Sometimes you get good stuff, other times I just don't use them at all and go to sleep. Of all the 7.5 hour flights to and fro Melbourne, hardly is there a flight that has good enough programme that can keep me awake all the way. Like I said, the novelty will wear off and frequent flyers will start to look for other things.

Originally posted by Kit

Which might be true, air travelling especially regional travel are getting more and more in demand.

Bring profitable is one thing but being an airline that represents a country and her people, I would expect them to make certain considerations for Singaporeans even if it means a small reduction in profits. How much does it take to keep frequent flyer points alive may I ask? Don't know, I'm stereotyping myself as a patroitic Singaporean here. Are you not patriotic? I dont see wats wrong with some patrotism if it helps in society cohesion and nation building. But no....I dont believe in National Education.....:D

I do agree they should remember they are a national institution, even thou uncle Lee himself recently said pointedly that the govt dont care if SIA dosent turn in a profit, or if they will completely exit from being SIA's shareholders. I dont think we should do it as drastically as what MAS is doing, incuring themselves so much red ink, but surely something can be done to encourage travel from us Singapoeans on our own airline.

Originally posted by Kit

Well, perhaps for the first few flights and your luck. Sometimes you get good stuff, other times I just don't use them at all and go to sleep. Of all the 7.5 hour flights to and fro Melbourne, hardly is there a flight that has good enough programme that can keep me awake all the way. Like I said, the novelty will wear off and frequent flyers will start to look for other things. Hm....at best I might try it on a long-haul flight when my financial situation takes a turn for the better, at least have the right to say I once tried SIA before, and I too gain the right to make (hopefully better) comments about them.

Well to tell you the truth, I used to be an avid SIA advocator. That's why I decided to sign up for Krisflyer programme and didn't mind paying the extra(sometimes about 20% more than other airlines) just to fly with them. Things changed when they decided to turn my loyalty into zilt.

Nothing beats landing in Changi with the pilot saying "To all Singaporeans and PRs, welcome home". I wonder if the pilots have to say that in future, for there won't be any Singaporeans on board then. Sad. Come to think of it, SQ didn't priced itself above the market, it priced above ordinary Singaporeans. No, I'm not saying I'm rich. Just a fool who just realised he's a fool after 20 over flights.

Originally posted by Kit

Well to tell you the truth, I used to be an avid SIA advocator. That's why I decided to sign up for Krisflyer programme and didn't mind paying the extra(sometimes about 20% more than other airlines) just to fly with them. Things changed when they decided to turn my loyalty into zilt.

Nothing beats landing in Changi with the pilot saying "To all Singaporeans and PRs, welcome home". I wonder if the pilots have to say that in future, for there won't be any Singaporeans on board then. Sad. Come to think of it, SQ didn't priced itself above the market, it priced above ordinary Singaporeans. No, I'm not saying I'm rich. Just a fool who just realised he's a fool after 20 over flights. Now that explains alot. I have a feeling I might be one of the biggest critics against them too if only i have the chance to even get on their planes...I often felt that the biggest critics are usually those who cared most about the subject of their criticism.

Right now, I am looking at SIA based more on a semi-academic viewpoint, bec transporation is one integral part of my studies presently. But obviously most people dont actually study all these shit to make themselves feel better when it comes to catching that plane. Sometimes, the management seem to loose sight of that fact, as I sometimes seem to commit the same sin too.

Your second para is especially saddening....:cry:

Sorry to intrude .....coming from a service industry (in fact I am typing this from work!) and being one of the better companies in the service industry in Asia, I must say there are many things that are 'filtered out' like what Huaiwei had mentioned in page 2. In my company, 'elite customers' stands much more chances being heard than the regular joe. Actually it depends as situation warrants but if you're a big spender.....definitely you'll get the priority. This is a dog-eat-dog-world man! :D

Originally posted by szehoong

Sorry to intrude .....coming from a service industry (in fact I am typing this from work!) and being one of the better companies in the service industry in Asia, I must say there are many things that are 'filtered out' like what Huaiwei had mentioned in page 2. In my company, 'elite customers' stands much more chances being heard than the regular joe. Actually it depends as situation warrants but if you're a big spender.....definitely you'll get the priority. This is a dog-eat-dog-world man! :D

Yeah, its a dog-eat-dog-world. Same goes to the view point of the consumers. We'll take the money somewhere else is a company can't satisfy us. During good times, nobody will remember us but when things turn choppy........ you get what I'm trying to say.

However, for a company like SIA which deals with people of all walks, it is incredibly short sighted to classify customers, especially to Singaporeans. Remember, SIA is more than your average coporation. I still think they have some obligations to Singaporeans. And if they don't value regular customers, case close.

Originally posted by huaiwei

Now that explains alot. I have a feeling I might be one of the biggest critics against them too if only i have the chance to even get on their planes...I often felt that the biggest critics are usually those who cared most about the subject of their criticism.

Right now, I am looking at SIA based more on a semi-academic viewpoint, bec transporation is one integral part of my studies presently. But obviously most people dont actually study all these shit to make themselves feel better when it comes to catching that plane. Sometimes, the management seem to loose sight of that fact, as I sometimes seem to commit the same sin too.

Your second para is especially saddening....:cry:

Sad but true which made it even sadder I guess.

Originally posted by Kit

During good times, nobody will remember us but when things turn choppy........ you get what I'm trying to say.Interestingly, sometimes I think its the other way round...during good times they are all so nice and treat most customers well....during bad times only those who help keep their bottom line gets the attention...the rest are cast aside. May not be applicable when it comes to SIA during this period, but somehow I do get the impression this might be the case...

Btw, it also appears their definition of a truly "regular" customer is one who jets around once a week or something....I suppose that explains why you actually face point expiry problems.

After reading through this, I just wondered how come Kit, you were not aware of your mileage expiry? I am sure it is in the terms and conditions, and I believe KrisFlyer do send you updates on your account balance regularly? You can even log-in on the website to check.

Apart from getting a free upgrade once, the most useful thing about this KrisFlyer thing has been priority waitlist for me..especially since I tend to book flights at the last minute.

Originally posted by RafflesCity

After reading through this, I just wondered how come Kit, you were not aware of your mileage expiry? I am sure it is in the terms and conditions, and I believe KrisFlyer do send you updates on your account balance regularly? You can even log-in on the website to check.

Apart from getting a free upgrade once, the most useful thing about this KrisFlyer thing has been priority waitlist for me..especially since I tend to book flights at the last minute.

I do receive updates regularly and there were no mentions about expiry dates until they sent me the final letter stating that the points would expire soon and asked me for more money to extend the expiry date by a further 3 months, which is totally useless.

As for being on the priority list, no such thing for me. If I don't get it, that means I don't get it. Krisflyer doesn't help.

Originally posted by huaiwei

Interestingly, sometimes I think its the other way round...during good times they are all so nice and treat most customers well....during bad times only those who help keep their bottom line gets the attention...the rest are cast aside. May not be applicable when it comes to SIA during this period, but somehow I do get the impression this might be the case...

Btw, it also appears their definition of a truly "regular" customer is one who jets around once a week or something....I suppose that explains why you actually face point expiry problems.

Perhaps I'm not that a frequent flyer to them. However, it makes no sense to have my points defaulted especially when I'm flying regularly(at least 4 flights per year) and I have to ask....... how much does it costs to keep an account?

Maybe I also add that when I'm given something for patronising a company, I don't expect it to be taken away or asked to pay a fee to keep them. I'm speaking as a consumer.

Originally posted by Kit

Maybe I also add that when I'm given something for patronising a company, I don't expect it to be taken away or asked to pay a fee to keep them. I'm speaking as a consumer. I shant pretend I know muct about their frequent flyer policy, but do anyone have the terms and conditions available and post them for us to check it out?

Kit...have you ever tried bringing your complaint up to them formally?

Originally posted by huaiwei

I shant pretend I know muct about their frequent flyer policy, but do anyone have the terms and conditions available and post them for us to check it out?

Kit...have you ever tried bringing your complaint up to them formally?

I was in Australia at that time(in the middle of the semester) and the letter was posted to me in Singapore. I didn't know about it until I came back at the end of the year when the points were way past its expiry date. So I didn't bother. Now I just make sure I don't get screwed again.

Originally posted by Kit

I was in Australia at that time(in the middle of the semester) and the letter was posted to me in Singapore. I didn't know about it until I came back at the end of the year when the points were way past its expiry date. So I didn't bother. Now I just make sure I don't get screwed again. Sounds like my friend who came back to Singapore from NZL only to find a traffic summon sent to his sg address when he committed the "crime" there. Apparantly he was supposed to turn up in court or something? :D

Frankly I think you shd hv sent up your complaint anyway...its a better test of their willingness to serve you as a customer. I dont see why they could think they should be excepted from serving you jus bec they hv sent the letter.

Originally posted by huaiwei

Sounds like my friend who came back to Singapore from NZL only to find a traffic summon sent to his sg address when he committed the "crime" there. Apparantly he was supposed to turn up in court or something? :D

Frankly I think you shd hv sent up your complaint anyway...its a better test of their willingness to serve you as a customer. I dont see why they could think they should be excepted from serving you jus bec they hv sent the letter.

Oh well........ now that I know other airlines are providing similar services at a lower rate, I'll be more than happy to spend my money there now. As for the points, I wouldn't dream of and wouldn't want to get them back because that would means I have to spend more money on them to make the points useful. As for an explaination, I can almost imagine what they'll say.

Originally posted by Kit

I was in Australia at that time(in the middle of the semester) and the letter was posted to me in Singapore. I didn't know about it until I came back at the end of the year when the points were way past its expiry date. So I didn't bother. Now I just make sure I don't get screwed again.

What a pity. You could have checked your mileage expiry online (I just did out of curiosity) and they even have the option of sending you updates via email. I guess the next step they could do is call up every member to remind them:no:

Originally posted by RafflesCity

What a pity. You could have checked your mileage expiry online (I just did out of curiosity) and they even have the option of sending you updates via email. I guess the next step they could do is call up every member to remind them:no:

Checking the status of my mileage is one thing. My question is, why should there be an expiry date for my points especially when I'm still flying regularly? If it remains stagnant for say 2 years, then that's understandable.

Originally posted by Kit

Checking the status of my mileage is one thing. My question is, why should there be an expiry date for my points especially when I'm still flying regularly? If it remains stagnant for say 2 years, then that's understandable.

I just checked. Actually from what I see, the miles do not expire all at 1 go. It is staggered. For instance my earliest flight mileage is gonna expire 31Dec 2004, while my most recent flight miles expire in 2007.

About other airlines providing similar services at cheaper rate out of Singapore, that is generally true. Many airlines are now using the same formula: PTVs and inflight meal choices being the standard now. If I was paying out of my own pocket I will probably go for the cheapest as I just wanna get to my destination. Luckily my dad is paying for me and I'm sticking with SIA primarily because of the substantial points I've earned so far. Your case has made me more conscious of the date of expiry.

and even if I knew that my points were going to expire, I can't do anything also. They can't expect me to buy a ticket just for the sake of it to earn enough points to redeem something before it expires can they? And no way I was going to allow them to rub salt into my wound by giving them money to extend the validity for a mere 3 months.

Originally posted by RafflesCity

I just checked. Actually from what I see, the miles do not expire all at 1 go. It is staggered. For instance my earliest flight mileage is gonna expire 31Dec 2004, while my most recent flight miles expire in 2007.

About other airlines providing similar services at cheaper rate out of Singapore, that is generally true. Many airlines are now using the same formula: PTVs and inflight meal choices being the standard now. If I was paying out of my own pocket I will probably go for the cheapest as I just wanna get to my destination. Luckily my dad is paying for me and I'm sticking with SIA primarily because of the substantial points I've earned so far. Your case has made me more conscious of the date of expiry.

I believe all my points were expired at one go because I haven't heard from them since then. If I still have points, I would be getting updates from them. Even if I still have points with them, what can I possibly do when I can't redeem anything when I had more points?

Originally posted by Kit

and even if I knew that my points were going to expire, I can't do anything also.

You could try to redeem them by getting a free flight. But be warned. Seems that many members are doing this and on each flight, there is a quota of how many passengers can fly free. So book early.

In all, my dealings with SIA is over since I've found more value for money providers. My parents pay for my fares too but I would be a fool to keep flying with them.

Originally posted by RafflesCity

You could try to redeem them by getting a free flight. But be warned. Seems that many members are doing this and on each flight, there is a quota of how many passengers can fly free. So book early.

I checked that out. I don't have enough points to do that.

Originally posted by Kit

Checking the status of my mileage is one thing. My question is, why should there be an expiry date for my points especially when I'm still flying regularly? If it remains stagnant for say 2 years, then that's understandable. I was so intrigued by this whole thing, that I chked out their site:Once you have earned KrisFlyer miles, they are valid for a period of three years. You will be notified in your Account Statements three months before they are due to expire. For a nominal fee, KrisFlyer members can extend these miles for another six months and KrisFlyer elite and PPS Club members can extend their miles for one year.It clearly says 3 years?

Originally posted by Kit

and even if I knew that my points were going to expire, I can't do anything also. They can't expect me to buy a ticket just for the sake of it to earn enough points to redeem something before it expires can they? And no way I was going to allow them to rub salt into my wound by giving them money to extend the validity for a mere 3 months. Isnt that wat frequent flyer programs are supposed to do anyway...encouraging you to fly more frequently with them? I dont think they are really catering to those who fly less often then every 6 months...(btw...how come you say its extended by 3 months when the text says its 6?)

Originally posted by huaiwei

I was so intrigued by this whole thing, that I chked out their site:It clearly says 3 years?

That's about right. I had my points defaulted about 2 years ago and that's about 3 years after I signed up.

Originally posted by huaiwei

Isnt that wat frequent flyer programs are supposed to do anyway...encouraging you to fly more frequently with them? I dont think they are really catering to those who fly less often then every 6 months...(btw...how come you say its extended by 3 months when the text says its 6?)

That's what I was told in the letter. Pay a minimal fee to have it extend for another 3 months.

and maybe my definition of frequent is different from them. As I've said, my points were defaulted when I'm still flying regularly.

BTW, I do fly at least 2 times every 6 months. I come back twice a year so that's at least 4 flights per year. Not counting those flights I take on holidays which is about a trip a year. So I can safely say I take an average of 6 flights per year for the past 7 years.

Unfortunately, its not up to me to decide whether I'm a frequent flyer or not.

Originally posted by Kit

That's about right. I had my points defaulted about 2 years ago and that's about 3 years after I signed up. Since you signed up for the program knowing full well the points are due for expiry after 3 years, there is less reason to cry foul?

Anyway, I chked and found out Qantas points expire after 3 years too.

Originally posted by huaiwei

Since you signed up for the program knowing full well the points are due for expiry after 3 years, there is less reason to cry foul?

Anyway, I chked and found out Qantas points expire after 3 years too.

Nope I did not know that when I signed up.

and you could blame me for not reading the disclaimer when I signed up.......... In any case, my dealings with them is over. They probably provided me with the best reason to learn to spend my money more wisely next time.

Originally posted by Kit

BTW, I do fly at least 2 times every 6 months. I come back twice a year so that's at least 4 flights per year. Not counting those flights I take on holidays which is about a trip a year. So I can safely say I take an average of 6 flights per year for the past 7 years.

Unfortunately, its not up to me to decide whether I'm a frequent flyer or not. With that kind of frequency, I dont see how you can be suffering from this kind of problems, unless you...

- Didnt book the flight using qualifying fares

- You flight is issued on V, Q, G or N booking class

- Didnt book under your name as it appears in your passport.

- Didnt quote your KrisFlyer Membership Number at the time of reservation.

- Didnt present your KrisFlyer Membership Card upon check-in.

:? :D

Originally posted by Kit

and you could blame me for not reading the disclaimer when I signed up.......... In any case, my dealings with them is over. They probably provided me with the best reason to learn to spend my money more wisely next time. Yeah....so please read the fine print of any other airline and hopefully you will be a happier traveller.

Btw, I find that I discovered those details with regards to point expiry relatively easily on the SIA site. I could not find the specifics on the Cathay one in comparison.

And btw, Thai also has a 3 yr expiry period for their points.........so far I have yet to find any airline other then SIA which actually lets you pay a fee to extend the expiry, which can be a boon when you have countless points which are about to do wasted.

Originally posted by huaiwei

With that kind of frequency, I dont see how you can be suffering from this kind of problems, unless you...

- Didnt book the flight using qualifying fares

- You flight is issued on V, Q, G or N booking class

- Didnt book under your name as it appears in your passport.

- Didnt quote your KrisFlyer Membership Number at the time of reservation.

- Didnt present your KrisFlyer Membership Card upon check-in.

:? :D

I believe I did all of the above when I present my membership card when I booked the tickets and made sure that I was assured that my bookings fufilled all conditions and points awarded.

Originally posted by huaiwei

Yeah....so please read the fine print of any other airline and hopefully you will be a happier traveller.

Btw, I find that I discovered those details with regards to point expiry relatively easily on the SIA site. I could not find the specifics on the Cathay one in comparison.

And btw, Thai also has a 3 yr expiry period for their points.........so far I have yet to find any airline other then SIA which actually lets you pay a fee to extend the expiry, which can be a boon when you have countless points which are about to do wasted.

Well I'll still be travelling as frequent but won't be joining any of those programmes anymore. Some perks just aren't meant to be enjoyed. Oh well...

Originally posted by Kit

I believe I did all of the above when I present my membership card when I booked the tickets and made sure that I was assured that my bookings fufilled all conditions and points awarded. How about showing us a copy of your letter? Makes me wonder if there are other tiny terms and conditions invovled....

Originally posted by huaiwei

How about showing us a copy of your letter? Makes me wonder if there are other tiny terms and conditions invovled....

Heh!! Its been 2 years and I threw it out the window the moment I read that they wanted more money to extend the validity of my points.

Originally posted by Kit

Well I'll still be travelling as frequent but won't be joining any of those programmes anymore. Some perks just aren't meant to be enjoyed. Oh well... Have you actually redeemed any of your points before at all?

Dosent make sense not to join any when you dont stand to incure any real material lost anyway.

Originally posted by Kit

Heh!! Its been 2 years and I threw it out the window the moment I read that they wanted more money to extend the validity of my points. Gee...then how are we to know if you misread the information in the letter or not? ;)

Originally posted by Kit

Well I'll still be travelling as frequent but won't be joining any of those programmes anymore. Some perks just aren't meant to be enjoyed. Oh well...

Yup..Just check this out
QANTAS CUTS THE VALUE OF FFP POINTS

18 Jan 2004

Qantas has made it harder for passengers to travel using frequent flyer points in a major overhaul of the popular scheme. Passengers must now spend up to 80 per cent more points to upgrade their seats from economy to business class, the most popular use of the points - and travel on Qantas's "partner" airlines, such as British Airways, now earns fewer points.



The most controversial change is to the number of points needed to upgrade a seat, especially on long-haul flights to the UK and America. It used to cost 50,000 points to upgrade an economy class fare from Sydney to London to business class - now it will cost 90,000 points.



The other major change means that passengers who fly on "code-share" flights with Qantas partner airlines such as British Airways will earn fewer points. Qantas used to offer one point per mile for economy class tickets flown on its Sydney to London route if the flight used a BA flight number. Now passengers will get just 0.25 points per mile. Passengers on American Airlines will also get fewer Qantas points than before.


btw I got that info from a very interesting website that ranks airlines based on feedback. Here is SIA's 'report card'

http://www.airlinequality.com/Airlines/SQ.htm

Originally posted by huaiwei

Have you actually redeemed any of your points before at all?

Dosent make sense not to join any when you dont stand to incure any real material lost anyway.

Like I said, I can't redeem anything........ ok at least not the things that I needed before the expiry date. I did get free flights on shorter routes but those were not needed. I can't possible take a free flight just because I could.

Interesting to note that economy class were ranked lowly compared to other classes.

Originally posted by Kit

Like I said, I can't redeem anything........ ok at least not the things that I needed before the expiry date. I did get free flights on shorter routes but those were not needed. I can't possible take a free flight just because I could. If they could accomodate all your wishes, then I suppose they cant possibly be keeping in the black! :D

I dont know, but I get the impression that if one manages his points carefully, and understand how the whole system works, then he will surely benefit more from the program.

The most accurate results would be the cabin seat comfort category I think. Like I said before, I definitely got more legroom on United flights. Can't remember Qantas but I find SQ seats very limiting.

Originally posted by huaiwei

If they could accomodate all your wishes, then I suppose they cant possibly be keeping in the black! :D

I dont know, but I get the impression that if one manages his points carefully, and understand how the whole system works, then he will surely benefit more from the program.

Oh well, I won't be joining any of those programmes anymore so that doesn't concern me at all anymore.

Originally posted by Kit

Interesting to note that economy class were ranked lowly compared to other classes. Didnt I mention the economy class is nothing on SIA compared to their other classes? I suppose anyone who really wants to experience the "inflight service which even other airlines talk about" has to do so in Raffles class and above...

Originally posted by huaiwei

Didnt I mention the economy class is nothing on SIA compared to their other classes? I suppose anyone who really wants to experience the "inflight service which even other airlines talk about" has to do so in Raffles class and above...

Yeah probably, which is kinda sad. So I'll conclude..... if you fly economy, fly with someone else.

Originally posted by RafflesCity

btw I got that info from a very interesting website that ranks airlines based on feedback. Here is SIA's 'report card'

http://www.airlinequality.com/Airlines/SQ.htm Speaking of skytrak, maybe we shd be telling the world Singapore is the only place with both the airport and airline scoring 5 points? :D

Originally posted by huaiwei

Speaking of skytrak, maybe we shd be telling the world Singapore is the only place with both the airport and airline scoring 5 points? :D

kekeke..you mean behave like those HK forumers here who post every single award HK gets as 1 thread? :D

Originally posted by huaiwei

Speaking of skytrak, maybe we shd be telling the world Singapore is the only place with both the airport and airline scoring 5 points? :D

and that's probably enough for them. Most travellers using Changi are transient passengers and most probably won't venture outside the airport.

Originally posted by RafflesCity

kekeke..you mean behave like those HK forumers here who post every single award HK gets as 1 thread? :D Notice they are defeningly silent everytime a particular city happens to pip them in something? :D

Originally posted by Kit

and that's probably enough for them. Most travellers using Changi are transient passengers and most probably won't venture outside the airport. Might as well. If they formed their impression of the rest of the country based on the airport, then I suppose the country gets five stars too? :D

Originally posted by huaiwei

Might as well. If they formed their impression of the rest of the country based on the airport, then I suppose the country gets five stars too? :D

Well, Singapore is definitely a sellable name in the middle east, china and some asian countries.

However, I've also gathered a general consensus from my associates(includes friends and lecturers) that Singapore is over sanitised and boring.

Originally posted by huaiwei

Notice they are defeningly silent everytime they lose out in something? :D

Yup. And one of them (no names) is extremely childish. Seems to be suffering from some inferiority complex. Aiyah..if there is a thread or need, then post lor..no need to search the universe for every single accolade like them.

Anyway SIA does enjoy a good reputation overall. When the cab driver in London on the way to the airport asked what airline I was taking, his comment was "good airline". Thats going a long way considering some people dont even know where Singapore is.

Originally posted by Kit

However, I've also gathered a general consensus from my associates(includes friends and lecturers) that Singapore is over sanitised and boring. Sterile is the word. Heard that so often in this forums, that I am begining to have some fun playing around with the word. :D

Originally posted by RafflesCity

Yup. And one of them (no names) is extremely childish. Seems to be suffering from some inferiority complex. Aiyah..if there is a thread or need, then post lor..no need to search the universe for every single accolade like them.

Anyway SIA does enjoy a good reputation overall. When the cab driver in London on the way to the airport asked what airline I was taking, his comment was "good airline". Thats going a long way considering some people dont even know where Singapore is. No need to name it......unless anyone wants to name the thread? :D Anyway I dont quite agree with wat nick said with regards to some city being "Asia's star"....yeah rite. Tokyo came up from the ashes of WW2. Beat that! :D

Maybe you can ask if that cab driver ever managed to grap a flight on SIA before...hehe ;)

Here are pictures of the plane itself.
http://photo.starblvd.net/Raffles/1-1-2-1078631034?m=1&pg=0&ro=0&co=1&pw=*168D401AA405

http://photo.starblvd.net/Raffles/1-1-1-1078630971?m=1&pg=0&ro=0&co=0

Raffles Class
http://photo.starblvd.net/Raffles/1-1-3-1078631092?m=1&pg=0&ro=0&co=2

Economy Class
http://photo.starblvd.net/Raffles/1-1-4-1077100600?m=1&pg=0&ro=0&co=3

http://photo.starblvd.net/Raffles/1-1-5-1078631129?m=1&pg=0&ro=0&co=4

30 Jan 2004

On February 3 at 4.00 p.m. (Singapore time), Singapore Airlines’ (SIA) new A345LeaderShip aircraft will lift off from Singapore’s Changi International Airport on the world’s longest scheduled non-stop flight.

Travelling 7,937 nautical miles over the Pacific Ocean, the 16 hour flight carries 181 passengers and links two of the world’s great cities: Singapore and Los Angeles. Travellers can dine on lobster thermidor in Raffles (business) Class, grab a snack in the world’s first Executive Economy Class passenger corner, or choose from over 250 inflight entertainment options on Krisworld – SIA’s in-flight entertainment system.

But the wonder of the world’s longest flight also begs the question: what’s the world’s shortest regularly scheduled flight?

The answer: a route between the Scottish Islands of Westray and Papa Westray with a scheduled flight time of two minutes.* However, it was once flown in 58 seconds (it’s amazing what a strong tail wind can do to get you to your destination ahead of time). The flights are operated by Loganair for British Airways and utilise a Pilatus Islander prop plane. It is believed there is no beverage service, since even coffee takes three minutes to brew.

21 Jan 2004

Passengers of Singapore Airlines (SIA) can now feast their eyes on an exquisite painting titled “Perfection” which will adorn the elegant and spacious Raffles Class cabin on SIA’s ultra long-haul aircraft A345LeaderShip.

A soothing water-colour painting depicting the 18th green at the Tampines Course in Tanah Merah Country Club, “Perfection” is the first realistic painting of a golf scene to be featured in SIA’s aircraft. Specially commissioned by SIA for the Raffles Class cabin of the A345 aircraft, “Perfection” is the work of Mr. Chang Chin Fai, a Singaporean artist renowned for his paintings of familiar local scenes.

In an appreciation to Tanah Merah Country Club for allowing the artist to capture a scene of its golf course, SIA’s Senior Executive Vice President (Commercial), Mr. Michael Tan presented the painting to Mr. Sim Kee Boon, Chairman of Tanah Merah Country Club, in a simple ceremony on 16 January 2004. The copy of the painting will be showcased in the interiors of the A345LeaderShip cabin.

SIA ushered in 2004 with the arrival of its first ultra long-haul aircraft – the SIA A345LeaderShip. The A345LeaderShip will offer the longest non-stop commercial service in the world when it commences operations between Singapore and Los Angeles on 3 February 2004.

With the launch of the A345LeaderShip Singapore-Los Angeles service, SIA will operate a daily non-stop flight between Singapore and Los Angeles. Designed to keep globetrotters comfortable throughout the unprecedented 16 to 18 and a half-hour flight, SIA’s A345LeaderShip has a two-cabin interior with an enhanced Raffles (business) Class and a spacious Executive Economy Class that features the widest economy class seat in the industry at 20”.

http://www.singaporeair.com/images/TMCC_Painting.jpg

21 Jan 2004

http://photo.starblvd.net/Raffles/1-1-2-1078631034?m=1&pg=0&ro=0&co=1&pw=*168D401AA405

http://photo.starblvd.net/Raffles/1-1-1-1078630971?m=1&pg=0&ro=0&co=0


Passengers of Singapore Airlines (SIA) can now feast their eyes on an exquisite painting titled “Perfection” which will adorn the elegant and spacious Raffles Class cabin on SIA’s ultra long-haul aircraft A345LeaderShip.

A soothing water-colour painting depicting the 18th green at the Tampines Course in Tanah Merah Country Club, “Perfection” is the first realistic painting of a golf scene to be featured in SIA’s aircraft. Specially commissioned by SIA for the Raffles Class cabin of the A345 aircraft, “Perfection” is the work of Mr. Chang Chin Fai, a Singaporean artist renowned for his paintings of familiar local scenes.

In an appreciation to Tanah Merah Country Club for allowing the artist to capture a scene of its golf course, SIA’s Senior Executive Vice President (Commercial), Mr. Michael Tan presented the painting to Mr. Sim Kee Boon, Chairman of Tanah Merah Country Club, in a simple ceremony on 16 January 2004. The copy of the painting will be showcased in the interiors of the A345LeaderShip cabin.

SIA ushered in 2004 with the arrival of its first ultra long-haul aircraft – the SIA A345LeaderShip. The A345LeaderShip will offer the longest non-stop commercial service in the world when it commences operations between Singapore and Los Angeles on 3 February 2004.

With the launch of the A345LeaderShip Singapore-Los Angeles service, SIA will operate a daily non-stop flight between Singapore and Los Angeles. Designed to keep globetrotters comfortable throughout the unprecedented 16 to 18 and a half-hour flight, SIA’s A345LeaderShip has a two-cabin interior with an enhanced Raffles (business) Class and a spacious Executive Economy Class that features the widest economy class seat in the industry at 20”.

http://www.singaporeair.com/images/TMCC_Painting.jpg

Raffles Class
http://photo.starblvd.net/Raffles/1-1-3-1078631092?m=1&pg=0&ro=0&co=2

Economy Class
http://photo.starblvd.net/Raffles/1-1-4-1077100600?m=1&pg=0&ro=0&co=3

http://photo.starblvd.net/Raffles/1-1-5-1078631129?m=1&pg=0&ro=0&co=4

My first sightings of these planes and the interiors! Thanks raffi! :colgate:

And erm...they really gonna use those snack bar corners?? ;)

yeah i guess.. the economy class has snacks at the bar but the business class doesnt right? weird.. hrmm i think 18 hour flights wouldn't be too bad for me so i can sleep without missing free movies. and uh if it hasn't been mentioned there will be ewr-sin flights after the middle of the year i think.. yes skipping amsterdam. the perfection art thingy looks cheesy :(

Well, the issue I am getting at was that I tot the US has implimented rules baring the congregation of passengers anywhere in the cabin?

SIA launches world's longest commercial flight

3rd Feb 2004

SINGAPORE Airlines on Tuesday launched the world's longest non-stop commercial flight when an Airbus A340-500 left for Los Angeles in an historic voyage.

Flight SQ20, with 140 passengers aboard, will arrive in Los Angeles after 16 hours, with the return flight taking 18 1/2 hours. This saves up to two hours in flying time each way from the previous one-stop route.

SIA officials said they were satisfied with the 75 per cent take-up rate for the maiden voyage and announced the launch of a second non-stop service between Singapore and New York had been brought forward from August to June.

'Tentatively we're programming it (the first flight to New York) to be on the 28th of June. I think the launch of this non-stop flight to Los Angeles has created a lot of interest from the business community,' said SIA chief executive Chew Choon Seng.

The Singapore-New York route will take 18 hours in each direction and save six hours of travel time.

Mr Chew said the carrier will consider expanding its fleet of five long-range Airbus planes if the two services are successful.

Transport Minister Yeo Cheow Tong and SIA chairman Koh Boon Hwee both described the Singapore-Los Angeles flight as the world's longest non-stop commercial flight.

The long-range aircraft, christened A345 LeaderShip, has been modified to carry only 181 passengers to allow for more space and offers just two classes -- business and executive economy.

Passengers will have to pay a 10 per cent premium on the ticket but officials and travellers said there was a market for the flights.

Travel consultant Kelly Daoud, 35, of Palm Springs, said he bought a ticket on the inaugural flight 'to be part of history' and had also booked a seat for the upcoming Singapore-New York service.

'Businessmen will like it,' he said, while waiting to board the gleaming white aircraft at Changi Airport.

Singaporean businessman Johnny Ang, 43, who was en route to his company's headquarters in Denver, usually took a flight via Vancouver in Canada. He said the direct flight would save him time and would be less tiring.

Mr Yeo said direct flights to the United States should help deepen trade ties with Washington and encourage tourism.

Staff of the more than 1,300 US corporations operating from Singapore will connect more easily with their home bases, he said.

With the direct flights, Singapore will also make full use of an open skies agreement it signed with the United States in 1997 that removed restrictions on the capacity and frequency of flights.

Before that, Singapore had to negotiate with some countries for stop-over rights.

'Changi (Airport's) position as an aviation hub will also grow, now that it can offer direct connections from this region to nearly all parts of the world without need for an immediate stop,' Mr Yeo said. -- AFP

SIA launches world's longest commercial flight

3rd Feb 2004

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SINGAPORE Airlines on Tuesday launched the world's longest non-stop commercial flight when an Airbus A340-500 left for Los Angeles in an historic voyage.

Flight SQ20, with 140 passengers aboard, will arrive in Los Angeles after 16 hours, with the return flight taking 18 1/2 hours. This saves up to two hours in flying time each way from the previous one-stop route.

SIA officials said they were satisfied with the 75 per cent take-up rate for the maiden voyage and announced the launch of a second non-stop service between Singapore and New York had been brought forward from August to June.

'Tentatively we're programming it (the first flight to New York) to be on the 28th of June. I think the launch of this non-stop flight to Los Angeles has created a lot of interest from the business community,' said SIA chief executive Chew Choon Seng.

The Singapore-New York route will take 18 hours in each direction and save six hours of travel time.

Mr Chew said the carrier will consider expanding its fleet of five long-range Airbus planes if the two services are successful.

Transport Minister Yeo Cheow Tong and SIA chairman Koh Boon Hwee both described the Singapore-Los Angeles flight as the world's longest non-stop commercial flight.

The long-range aircraft, christened A345 LeaderShip, has been modified to carry only 181 passengers to allow for more space and offers just two classes -- business and executive economy.

Passengers will have to pay a 10 per cent premium on the ticket but officials and travellers said there was a market for the flights.

Travel consultant Kelly Daoud, 35, of Palm Springs, said he bought a ticket on the inaugural flight 'to be part of history' and had also booked a seat for the upcoming Singapore-New York service.

'Businessmen will like it,' he said, while waiting to board the gleaming white aircraft at Changi Airport.

Singaporean businessman Johnny Ang, 43, who was en route to his company's headquarters in Denver, usually took a flight via Vancouver in Canada. He said the direct flight would save him time and would be less tiring.

Mr Yeo said direct flights to the United States should help deepen trade ties with Washington and encourage tourism.

Staff of the more than 1,300 US corporations operating from Singapore will connect more easily with their home bases, he said.

With the direct flights, Singapore will also make full use of an open skies agreement it signed with the United States in 1997 that removed restrictions on the capacity and frequency of flights.

Before that, Singapore had to negotiate with some countries for stop-over rights.

'Changi (Airport's) position as an aviation hub will also grow, now that it can offer direct connections from this region to nearly all parts of the world without need for an immediate stop,' Mr Yeo said. -- AFP

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