I thought i start a thread on the US's Second Largest & Busiest system after NYC (much cleaner). The DC Metro currently has 2 lines UC , one Metro line (Silver line) & 1 Streetcar line. Baltimore has 3 lines , and is smaller then DC. But has alot planned for the future. Both Cities systems will merge into one by 2025 , with all the Extensions.

Current DC Metro System

http://transitplanner.com/images/metro.gif

2030 DC Metro Plan

http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/DC-Metro.jpg

DC Streetcar plan

http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/DC-Streetcar-Plan-Map.jpg

Dulles Metro line (UC)

http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/Dulles-Metro-Map1.jpg

Baltimore Current system

http://www.mindspring.com/~tbgray/railmaps/Baltimore.gif

Planned Red line

http://www.baltimoreredlineunderground.org/images/red_line_project_area_map_s.jpg

Baltimore 2030 plan

http://www.gbc.org/bta/Media/BRRSP_72.jpg

Ridership

DC Metro 801,400
Metro Bus 439,424
Baltimore Light Rail 34,700
Baltimore Metro 57,600

DC Metro

http://images.nycsubway.org/i90000/img_90130.jpg
http://world.nycsubway.org/perl/show?90130

http://images.nycsubway.org/i20000/img_20964.jpg
http://world.nycsubway.org/perl/show?20964

<object width="960" height="745"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/nXcLJpWk0d8&hl=en_US&fs=1&color1=0x2b405b&color2=0x6b8ab6&hd=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/nXcLJpWk0d8&hl=en_US&fs=1&color1=0x2b405b&color2=0x6b8ab6&hd=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="960" height="745"></embed></object>

Metro Bus

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/25/Wmata_new_metrobuses.png/800px-Wmata_new_metrobuses.png
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Wmata_new_metrobuses.png

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c7/WMATA_MetroExtra_2809.jpg/800px-WMATA_MetroExtra_2809.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:WMATA_MetroExtra_2809.jpg

DC Streetcars (opening in 2011-12)

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2391/1534521831_66c9eeff2c_o.jpg
http://www.flickr.com/photos/8211178@N03/1534521831/sizes/o/

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4062/4298788257_67319dd909_b.jpg
http://www.flickr.com/photos/39017545@N02/4298788257/sizes/l/

Baltimore LRT

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0c/Baltimore_light_rail_at_BWI.agr.jpg/753px-Baltimore_light_rail_at_BWI.agr.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0c/Baltimore_light_rail_at_BWI.agr.jpg/753px-Baltimore_light_rail_at_BWI.agr.jpg

Baltimore Metro

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/a2/MTAM_Millford-Mill-departing-train.jpg/800px-MTAM_Millford-Mill-departing-train.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:MTAM_Millford-Mill-departing-train.jpg

Baltimore Bus

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/20/MTA_Maryland_New_Flyer_D40LF_04119.jpg/800px-MTA_Maryland_New_Flyer_D40LF_04119.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:MTA_Maryland_New_Flyer_D40LF_04119.jpg

~Corey

http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/DC-Metro.jpg

Is that an official plan, of just a fantasy?

Thanks for the section! I LOVE the DC Metro. I had the great fortune of being able to use it extensivly last October. It is incredibly easy to use, efficient, safe, and clean.

Also, do not forget the Capitol Subway that links the Capitol building to the office buildings and parking nearby. It is not generally open to non-Capitol employees/states people, but it is a nice little system. One can see it if you pre-arrange it with your representative. I have a pic from when I went in October, I will see if I can get it.

Steve

http://www.clouse.org/images/hillmap.gif
Map of system

Pics from Wikipedia:

Senate Subway car in newer line
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7f/Capitol_Subway_car.jpg

Senate Subway car in older line
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ef/Capitol_Subway_System_-_RSOB.jpg/220px-Capitol_Subway_System_-_RSOB.jpg

The House Subway uses older open top cars similar to the ones in the older Senate line. I have a pic but I will have to find it.

Is that an official plan, of just a fantasy?

Most of it , accept the Purple line extensions are in Doubt...:ohno:

Is that an official plan, of just a fantasy?

The Silver Line (to Dulles Airport) is in no danger of not being built, I live less than two miles from the construction area, and they look to be right on schedule for the first leg of the line (to Wiehle Avenue in the city of Reston) to be open by 2013.

I had heard that the Maryland State Gov't was pulling some tricks with the Purple Line to try to stall the construction (cash is tight for Maryland right now), but it looks as if it will be built after all. Public opinion by in large supports the line.

The Streetcar program is also moving forward despite opponents trying to kill it with every ridiculous argument possible. The tracks are already being laid in southeast D.C.

The Pink Line in that map is just the musing of the map author (Mr. Yonah Freemark) in this case, however, the separate Blue Line under M Street in downtown Washington HAS actually been taken under consideration. It's unlikely the "Pink Line" of the map would ever be built as it would require a bored tunnel under several jurisdictions of NIMBYs. It would, however, be great to have.

Here's another fantasy idea from "Tsarchitect":

Large image:
http://tsarchitect.nsflanagan.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/metro-diagram.jpg

And a geographically accurate map of the same:

Large image:
http://tsarchitect.nsflanagan.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/metro-map.jpg

And from Wikipedia, an official redesigned metro map with thinner lines:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/b3/WMATA_Thin_Silver_Line_Map.jpg

In any event , DC certain has a extremely bright transit future...but they should focus on improving ridership and expanding there Regional Rail....which is pretty small. You could add at least 5 more lines and Electrify 2 more.:)

Great info.

In any event , DC certain has a extremely bright transit future...but they should focus on improving ridership and expanding there Regional Rail....which is pretty small. You could add at least 5 more lines and Electrify 2 more.:)

Regional rail in D.C. isn't great, MARC is a bit better than VRE (which has long headways and very large "no service" gaps in the afternoon, and no service on weekends). Northern Fairfax County has no more railroad Rights of Way, these being converted to bike/walking trails through the "Rails to Trails" program 40 years ago. Hence, the emphasis there on Metro service (running through highway medians).

MARC also has no weekend service, or service on some holidays, but when VRE was being built Virginians were promised weekend service, which was later rescinded.

Also, there's no fare reciprocity between VRE and MARC and Metro. All have their own ticketing systems and fares. So, if I'm taking a VRE from Rolling Road (in Virginia) to L'Enfant Plaza downtown, and transfer to Metro to go to Foggy Bottom or Gallery Place/Chinatown, I have to buy and fund a Metro Card in addition to my daily VRE ticket. Something like London's Oyster Card would be great here, but that would require interagency cooperation, which seems to be in short supply

By the way, here's a map that was made by GreaterGreaterWashington and actually used by WMATA in a presentation a few years ago. It shows the "detached" Blue Line (largely running under M Street) without any of the more "imaginative" extensions.

http://images.greatergreaterwashington.org/images/200804/metro20303.png

Large image link:
http://images.greatergreaterwashington.org/images/200804/metro20303large.png

The dotted lines represent track but not route connections.

I see the second downtown trunk line as essential as running the Orange, Blue, and Silver trains all in the same tunnel will be problematic. The rush hour headways are already getting ridiculously close.

Regional rail in D.C. isn't great, MARC is a bit better than VRE (which has long headways and very large "no service" gaps in the afternoon, and no service on weekends). Northern Fairfax County has no more railroad Rights of Way, these being converted to bike/walking trails through the "Rails to Trails" program 40 years ago. Hence, the emphasis there on Metro service (running through highway medians).

MARC also has no weekend service, or service on some holidays, but when VRE was being built Virginians were promised weekend service, which was later rescinded.

Also, there's no fare reciprocity between VRE and MARC and Metro. All have their own ticketing systems and fares. So, if I'm taking a VRE from Rolling Road (in Virginia) to L'Enfant Plaza downtown, and transfer to Metro to go to Foggy Bottom or Gallery Place/Chinatown, I have to buy and fund a Metro Card in addition to my daily VRE ticket. Something like London's Oyster Card would be great here, but that would require interagency cooperation, which seems to be in short supply

By the way, here's a map that was made by GreaterGreaterWashington and actually used by WMATA in a presentation a few years ago. It shows the "detached" Blue Line (largely running under M Street) without any of the more "imaginative" extensions.

http://images.greatergreaterwashington.org/images/200804/metro20303.png

Large image link:
http://images.greatergreaterwashington.org/images/200804/metro20303large.png

The dotted lines represent track but not route connections.

I see the second downtown trunk line as essential as running the Orange, Blue, and Silver trains all in the same tunnel will be problematic. The rush hour headways are already getting ridiculously close.

They Need to extend MARC Service to Fredrick form Baltimore and to Newark,DE. DC to Annapolis via MARC express bus. As for VRE , they need to extend that to Richmond and Electrify it.:) Hows the Streetcar scandal , did they pass a bill allowing Catenary wires?

It seems like the DC area has a well-connected network of public transport with room to grow - and it seems like they are putting some good investments in place.

So why dont more people know more about the DC Metro & surface transport?

Cheers, m

So why dont more people know more about the DC Metro & surface transport?


Well, it may not be too well known outside of the USA, but it is a rather popular form of transit for locals and tourists. It has the second highest ridership of US metro systems, after New York City.

Steve

It seems like the DC area has a well-connected network of public transport with room to grow - and it seems like they are putting some good investments in place.

So why dont more people know more about the DC Metro & surface transport?

Cheers, m

I'm not sure why it doesn't have more of a following internationally, other than the fact that SkyscraperCity posters notwithstanding, most non-U.S. Americans think of N.Y.C., L.A., or even Chicago before Washington D.C. as the quintessential American "city". It's not as large or impressive as those in London, Paris, Tokyo, or Madrid or growing as fast as the Chinese metros.

Within the U.S., more people seem to be aware of it. It's often held up as an example of a very successful from-scratch heavy-rail Metro.

Tourists, locals, and working commuters alike use it. It functions well both for moving large numbers of people in and out of the city from the suburbs (the inner and mid-suburbs, at least) and also for moving within the city itself.

They Need to extend MARC Service to Fredrick form Baltimore and to Newark,DE. DC to Annapolis via MARC express bus. As for VRE , they need to extend that to Richmond and Electrify it.:) Hows the Streetcar scandal , did they pass a bill allowing Catenary wires?

It will most likely be a hybrid system, or a mix of catenary and in-ground power transmission if they don't change the old law that bans overhead wires that are visible from the National Mall (this is still being debated).

Hybrid systems require either batteries (heavy) or super-capacitors (possibly heavy, probably expensive, still in the development) stage or diesel engines (heavy, noisy, polluting) on board to provide power.

In ground systems are basically proprietary or in development (APS or Siemens) or conduit. Old style conduit was very expensive, labor intensive, and could be troublesome - especially in snow/ice conditions. Modern conduit should be much cheaper (shallow as opposed to deep), no additional labor (but possibly still problematic in snow/ice).

http://greatergreaterwashington.org/post.cgi?id=3587

It will most likely be a hybrid system, or a mix of catenary and in-ground power transmission if they don't change the old law that bans overhead wires that are visible from the National Mall (this is still being debated).

Hybrid systems require either batteries (heavy) or super-capacitors (possibly heavy, probably expensive, still in the development) stage or diesel engines (heavy, noisy, polluting) on board to provide power.




It would be interesting to see if they have to change the vehicles to support something other than catenary since they are already built and waiting in the Czech Republic....

Steve

The purple light rail line will definitely relieve pressure on downtown trains for those that want to go from suburb to suburb. Once they connect to Dulles, I think that will be even better to have both DC airports connected by rail. BWI is connected too. :)

The purple light rail line will definitely relieve pressure on downtown trains for those that want to go from suburb to suburb. Once they connect to Dulles, I think that will be even better to have both DC airports connected by rail. BWI is connected too. :)

Yes, the Purple Line will be great for Montgomery County and will help take some pressure off the Capital Beltway as well (traffic is painfully slow during rush hour, which is pretty much all day anymore). Since HRT was axed as a possibility, LRT was clearly the right option here; BRT would have been a bust.

BWI is connected to D.C. and Baltimore by MARC. It's a bit too far from the D.C. city center to justify Metro (10 miles further out than Dulles is, I believe).

I hope that Baltimore goes ahead with their new Red Line addition and Green Line extension. It would be a great thing for the city to have. I was hoping they'd go for heavy rail for the Red Line, but light rail for this line will work, just not as well (less capacity).

I'm not sure that the Blue and Yellow extensions shown in that one Baltimore map have ever been seriously considered, but they seem like a good idea. They'd have to be in a tunnel with two new underground stations (that area of Baltimore has narrow, crowded streets), but they'd be going a relatively short distance, so the expense may not be that great.

D.C., in my opinion, should concentrate on increasing core capacity via proposals like the new Blue Line tunnel under M and H streets, rather than trying to reach every far-flung suburb. Some modest extensions like extending the Orange Line to Centreville and Bowie, the Green Line to Laurel, the Yellow Line to Hybla Valley, and the Blue Line to Lorton should be considered, perhaps.

^^ Good thread.

I hope that Baltimore goes ahead with their new Red Line addition and Green Line extension. It would be a great thing for the city to have. I was hoping they'd go for heavy rail for the Red Line, but light rail for this line will work, just not as well (less capacity).

I'm not sure that the Blue and Yellow extensions shown in that one Baltimore map have ever been seriously considered, but they seem like a good idea. They'd have to be in a tunnel with two new underground stations (that area of Baltimore has narrow, crowded streets), but they'd be going a relatively short distance, so the expense may not be that great.


At this point the red line looks like it has a good chance of being built. Although the red line will be built as Light Rail, unlike the Central Light Rail Line (existing LRT), the line will be in a tunnel in the central city (see map), which is a tremendous improvement in planning over the Central Light rail Line
http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/red-line-proposal.png

Indeed, the Yellow and Blue line extensions have never seriously been considered, although if the Red Line is a success, it would certainly give plans for the extensions a boost. Right now the MTA's first priority is the Red Line. After that is built, they may begin to work more seriously on the Green Line extension.

A rendering of an underground station on the Red Line:
http://www.tunneltalk.com/images/Red-Line/Red-Line-station.jpg

I think the Red line will go first , then the Green line extension. Then by the Time we get to the opening year of the Green line Ext , people will want more. The Yellow and Blue line spurs will be pushed or even in the finally stages of planning. As for the Orange line , maybe they can replace Marc's Camden line with it. I hope that one day MARC will build a line along the I-70 Corridor to Fredrick and down the I-97 corridor to the Annapolis. It seems that Baltimore will one day become the next DC in Transit terms although a bit smaller.:)

It would be interesting if this ever came true , although i do believe the bulk of it will.

http://images.greatergreaterwashington.org/images/200806/transitfuturelarge.png

It would be interesting if this ever came true , although i do believe the bulk of it will.


^^ The above plan isn't as far-fetched as it may at first seem, all of the schemes shown in the D.C.-area of this map have been taken under consideration recently. Interest has been on the upswing on installing streetcars in Arlington along Columbia Pike, and also in Alexandria.

The Metro Silver Line to Dulles Airport and the D.C. streetcar track routes are currently under construction, and the Purple Line from Bethesda to New Carrollton is all but guaranteed.

The most expensive proposals shown would probably be the new D.C. Blue line subway, the Washington Beltway circular Purple Line, and the new Baltimore Red Line. To me, the biggest "long shot" (no pun intended) is that extra lonnnnnnnng Baltimore Yellow Line light rail route running all the way from Lithincum to Silver Spring.

As the Commuter Rail proposals shown (in light green) would use existing ROW and tracks, these would be less difficult to implement.

^^
I agree, most of the extensions on the on the map are actual proposals and will likely occur sometime in the next 20-30 years. The few things on the map that i don't see happening are:
1) The Extending of the Baltimore Yellow Line all the way to Silver Spring. The current proposal to extend the line to Columbia would still create a very long light rail line.
2) The Extension of the Corridor Cities Transitway to Frederick. There just isn't significant commuter potential from Frederick County (and granted, maybe there will be in the future) to make it logical to extend the CCT beyond Clarksburg.
3) i think it will be quite a long time before the Purple Line is extended all the way around DC. I'm not saying it shouldn't or won't ever happen, but i think it will face significant opposition from residents in Fairfax County and there is also the issue of funds.

I guess the new DC Metrorail stock will have neither wider doors nor open gangways.

I guess the new DC Metrorail stock will have neither wider doors nor open gangways.

Doesn't appear so. The big change will be to longitudinal seating, like NYC and Boston already have. At least our D.C. cars have 3 doors per side of the car as opposed to the two that S.F.'s BART cars have.

http://greatergreaterwashington.org/post.cgi?id=5625

More interesting maps ive found.

http://beyonddc.com/log/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/actvision1200.png

http://beyonddc.com/nonweb/_maps/DCferries.png

Some new photos I shot the other day of the support pylons for the Dulles Silver Line extension. The Silver Line will diverge from the existing Orange Line where I-66 meets Route 267 (The Dulles Toll Road). Construction is also well underway along 267, in Tyson's Corner, and as far out as Wiehle Avenue in Reston.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3386/4576430706_b15578348b.jpg

Large:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3386/4576430706_876b0ffc40_o.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3380/4575796025_696b3b7cbf.jpg

Large:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3380/4575796025_43a9993e42_o.jpg

The tracks between East and West Falls Church will be shutdown for three weekends in order to facilitate construction.
http://www.wmata.com/about_metro/news/PressReleaseDetail.cfm?ReleaseID=4424

MTA Announces Improvements to Red Line
Tunnel Enhancements, Other Improvements Included in Request for Federal Funding

The Maryland Transit Administration’s (MTA) request for funding for the Red Line will include $121 million in key enhancements to the project announced last summer, including a two track tunnel under Cooks Lane in western Baltimore City. The Red Line is a 14.5-mile light rail line that will serve communities between Woodlawn and the Johns Hopkins Bayview Medical Center and enhance the regional transit network with connections to the Metro Subway, Light Rail and MARC Train. In announcing his selection of the route in 2009, Governor O’Malley recognized the potential for efficient, dependable transportation to provide access to job opportunities for corridor residents.

To comply with strict federal standards for cost effectiveness, the previously-announced Red Line Locally Preferred Alternative only included a one-mile single track tunnel under Cooks Lane. Subsequent refinements to the ridership forecast provide additional project benefits that offset the additional cost of the second track of the Cooks Lane tunnel--- a high end signal system; enhancements to the train maintenance facility to be constructed on Calverton Road; a crossover in the three-mile downtown tunnel; and four additional light rail vehicles to handle increased ridership. With all of these enhancements the current capital cost estimate for the Red Line is $1.778 billion, in current dollars.

MTA’s goal has been to design a project that would receive a “medium” rating for cost effectiveness by the Federal Transit Administration. The cost effectiveness rating captures capital costs, operating and maintenance costs, and ridership-related user benefits. Prior to a recent federal policy change, a transit project was required to achieve a medium cost effectiveness rating and a medium overall project rating to advance through the approval process. While the recent policy change will remove the medium cost effectiveness threshold as an absolute requirement, the Red Line will still be competing nationally, and a lower cost effectiveness number will help in that competition. The current range for a project to achieve a medium rating is $16.00 to $24.99. The updated Red Line has a cost effectiveness of $22.77.

Red Line ridership estimates have increased as a result of using the most recent and updated set of land use and demographic forecasts adopted by the Baltimore Metropolitan Council, incorporation of the findings from a 2007 survey of MTA riders, and a more detailed analysis of both home-based and non-home based travel patterns. The year 2030 ridership forecasts for the Red Line are projected at 59,200 trips per day, up from 54,000 in August 2009.

The MTA is currently working with the Federal Transit Administration to move the Red Line into the Preliminary Engineering phase of the project. This includes a review of all aspects of the project by the FTA. Preliminary Engineering is scheduled to begin in late summer 2010 and take approximately two years to complete. Assuming funding is available, Preliminary Engineering would be followed by Final Design, with construction underway after 2013. This summer, station area advisory committees comprised of community representatives will begin meeting to help the MTA design the 20 stations planned for the corridor.

http://www.baltimoreredline.com/home...ts-to-red-line

---

I just noticed this and have no idea when it was announced.

Relevant FAQs:
http://www.baltimoreredline.com/loca...sked-questions

Why are you updating the LPA now?

Since the LPA was announced, MTA has continued to refine the forecast of project benefits and cost estimates in preparation for a request to the Federal Transit Administration to enter a process that will eventually lead to federal funding for the project. This additional work showed that we could support enhancements that would make the Red Line more reliable and less costly in the long run. All of these enhancements had been considered previously but were removed from the LPA last year to meet federal requirements for cost effectiveness.

What are the specific changes?

Changes include the following:
Double Bore Cooks Lane Tunnel $67 million
Yard & Shop Improvements $15 million
Full CAB Signaling $16 million
Increase Length of Underground Crossover to Allow 10 MPH Operation $7 million
Increase Vehicles from 34 to 38 $16 million
Total $121 million

If the cost has increased why has the cost effectiveness improved?

The project cost effectiveness has decreased which is a good thing (our goal is to have the most benefit for the least cost). This is a result of increased ridership which means increased user benefits. The increase in user benefits more than offsets the increase in cost.

Why did the ridership forecast increase?

Since August 2009, the travel demand model used to estimate ridership has been improved. Average daily ridership is now 59,000. The primary reasons for the increase in ridership are as follows:

1. The model used Round 7A, the most recent and updated set of land use and demographic forecasts adopted by Baltimore Regional Transportation Board. Round 7A includes, among other enhancements, far more residential development in the downtown area.
2. The model used MTA's 2007 rider survey. The Phase I model used 1996 survey data which was the best available at the time. The 2007 survey showed significantly higher level of transit dependency and off-peak trip making than the prior model.
3. Ensured distribution of trips for home-based work travel is reflective of the patterns observed in the Journey-to Work data from the U.S. Census. The improvements made in representing this key market translated into a much improved and more sensitive model.

What is the justification for adding a second tube to the Cooks Lane tunnel?

The Cooks Lane tunnel is a one-mile segment of the Red Line. This is the only portion of the 14.5 mile project that was proposed as single track in August 2009, which was done to help achieve the medium cost effectiveness rating. Single tracking would have supported the headways needed for 2030 ridership, but is not ideal because it would result in service disruptions if the track is blocked and it would be more costly to construct the second tube in the future. This was of particular concern to citizens and elected officials, including, in particular, the District 41 delegation and the Red Line Citizens Advisory Council.

[additional Q&A is on the linked page]

Courtesy of BeyondDC (http://www.beyonddc.com):

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4064/4581873091_e84e74306f.jpg

New D.C. streetcars are on display through May 8th, 2010.
Photo Gallery: http://www.flickr.com/photos/beyonddc/sets/72157624000098562/show/

More at DCist: http://dcist.com/2010/05/click_click_dc_shows_off_its_modern.php

It would be interesting if this ever came true , although i do believe the bulk of it will.

http://images.greatergreaterwashington.org/images/200806/transitfuturelarge.png

this would be brilliant!

I live within a 20 minute walk to the Vienna Station on the orange line.

My GF works in DC and most days (usually weather related) has to take a bus from our condo, to the metro to get to work. Her mother lives in Richmond, so whenever she has to go visit, she has to get on the bus, go to the metro, metro into Union station, walk 8 blocks to the greyhound station, then sit on a stank bus for 2 hours in crippling traffic.

If she could just get on the metro, and then transfer to a commuter rail line to get to RVA, it would just make things as efficient as NYC (referring to MTA->LIRR/Metro-North/etc. )

Oh and the purple line that goes completely around the beltway would be a freaking godsend as well. I do alot of driving for my job and the traffic in this area is an absolute nightmare at just about any time of day... I refused to pay LESS rent because it meant that I would have to spend time on 66, 495 AND I-95.

Now I pay an exorbitant amount of rent for a 1br. condo simply because it's within "walking distance" to a metro station.

The "Inner Blue Line" is an idea I think is very much worth pursuing by Metro and the District. I haven't commuted in DC in a number of years, but the Red Line was almost always a nightmare in the mornings and having another line in the station to take some of the volume would be a great addition to the system.

Also, they ought to build an express third track that would give Union Station-bound trains a limited stop configuration.

---

As far as MARC goes, I used to say I wasn't going to hold my breath on any extension into Delaware, but with Northeastern Maryland and DE starting to grow (Route 40 has changed significantly from how I remember it being, just 10-15 years ago), the idea may catch steam again one day.

Where Maryland really needs to focus its commuter rail efforts, though is on are first, the expansion of BWI Rail Station to something more resembling EWR Rail Station (along with the new track down to I think Seabrook or Odenton?) and weekend service.

The B&P Tunnel needs something to happen to it. Not sure what it will be, if anything. MTA's 2002 plan has a new tunnel built that would accomodate a MARC station at Upton Metro station. But other plans, including the recent UPenn HSR plan, has a new station being built at Charles Center and that might be worth investigating by MTA, since they're talking about running the Red Line at least near there.

---

As far as Baltimore goes, I don't know what the Red Line will end up looking like. Lots of opposition to the line on both ends.

I think it's poorly designed at current and needs to connect directly to Charles Center (maybe Lexington Market), should connect to MARC in East Baltimore somewhere, and should be used for new development in the "Highway to Nowhere" ditch.

They should also try to figure out how to connect the current Green Line to the NEC as well. Hopkins Hospital is a horrible terminus for that line.

As far as the current line(s), I remember an idea being floated a while back to demolish the viaduct portions of the JFK from Pratt Street northward a short distance. If they decide to go along with this idea, they could run trains from Penn Station to Inner Harbor East/Little Italy.

MARC to Wilmington? Isnt that too far to commute?

MARC to Wilmington? Isnt that too far to commute?

Joe Biden did it. :P

MARC to Wilmington? Isnt that too far to commute?

Not if you live in Aberdeen or Elkton.

But I expect there to be flow as much towards Aberdeen from say, Newark or Wilmington, as much as flow towards DE. BRAC jobs will be in MD, but income taxes are lower in DE, IIRC, so I imagine there would be people who would rather live in DE and commute into MD.

WOW streetcars for DC! Thats awsome!! How many lines are going to open? And when?

WOW streetcars for DC! Thats awsome!! How many lines are going to open? And when?

There will be 8 lines, the first opening late 2012 with the whole network to be completed around 2020. <sarc>In American terms this means 2030 or 2040.</sarc>

There's also a push to add a 9th line along Wisconsin Avenue to bring streetcar service further into Northwest DC.

Washington Promotes Massive New Streetcar Project (http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/10/28/washington-promotes-massive-new-streetcar-project/)

The Full DC Streetcar Routes Explained (http://dc.urbanturf.com/articles/blog/the_full_dc_streetcar_routes_explained/2236)

Washington Comes Closer to Bridging the Gap with its New Streetcar Network (http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2010/06/02/washington-comes-closer-to-bridging-the-gap-with-its-new-streetcar-network/)

There will be 8 lines, the first opening late 2012 with the whole network to be completed around 2020. <sarc>In American terms this means 2030 or 2040.</sarc>

There's also a push to add a 9th line along Wisconsin Avenue to bring streetcar service further into Northwest DC.

Washington Promotes Massive New Streetcar Project (http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/10/28/washington-promotes-massive-new-streetcar-project/)

The Full DC Streetcar Routes Explained (http://dc.urbanturf.com/articles/blog/the_full_dc_streetcar_routes_explained/2236)

Washington Comes Closer to Bridging the Gap with its New Streetcar Network (http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2010/06/02/washington-comes-closer-to-bridging-the-gap-with-its-new-streetcar-network/)


The Wisconsin Line seems to have a lot of popular support (really just apart from NIMBYs). H, Georgia, and Adams Morgan are probably DDOT's highest priority lines. Not sure what ever happened to Anacostia; does it take this long for two miles of track?

The Wisconsin Line seems to have a lot of popular support (really just apart from NIMBYs). H, Georgia, and Adams Morgan are probably DDOT's highest priority lines. Not sure what ever happened to Anacostia; does it take this long for two miles of track?

I've never heard a decent reason as to why its opening has been continually pushed back. I'd chalk it up to typical North American fecklessness when it comes to implementing rail. And, this is D.C. after all. :)

Being from Baltimore, and living west of the city in Frederick County, I can't wait for the Red Line to be built, as I would only need to drive to the end of Rt 70 in Woodlawn to catch the train downtown for Orioles and Ravens games as well as other city events. It allows me to stay off 695 which can be trouble at pretty much any time of the day.

As for a DC-Baltimore connector, I am intrigued by the Maglev train proposal. I am pretty shocked that these cities haven't been better connected by mass transit being only 40 miles apart.

Being from Baltimore, and living west of the city in Frederick County, I can't wait for the Red Line to be built, as I would only need to drive to the end of Rt 70 in Woodlawn to catch the train downtown for Orioles and Ravens games as well as other city events. It allows me to stay off 695 which can be trouble at pretty much any time of the day.

As for a DC-Baltimore connector, I am intrigued by the Maglev train proposal. I am pretty shocked that these cities haven't been better connected by mass transit being only 40 miles apart.

It's a bit disappointing they went with light rail for the Red Line instead of heavy rail, though I guess we should be lucky it will be built at all. I don't see the reason to move to another rail technology system when the city already has heavy rail and stock on the Green Line. The expected number of Red Line users would warrant heavy rail.

A high-speed rail connection between Washington and Baltimore would be great. I'd visit Baltimore a lot more if I could just zip up there in 30 minutes. I'm not sure how I feel about Maglev as a technology, though.

It's a bit disappointing they went with light rail for the Red Line instead of heavy rail, though I guess we should be lucky it will be built at all. I don't see the reason to move to another rail technology system when the city already has heavy rail and stock on the Green Line. The expected number of Red Line users would warrant heavy rail.

A high-speed rail connection between Washington and Baltimore would be great. I'd visit Baltimore a lot more if I could just zip up there in 30 minutes. I'm not sure how I feel about Maglev as a technology, though.

Maglev does seem like an unlikely choice for a DC/Baltimore connector. I also wonder if it would just be too expensive to install, since it can't use any existing rail lines.

As for the Red Line, I agree. It should be heavy-rail, but Baltimore likes to take the easiest and cheap way out of things. They are now talking about single-tracking parts of the red line to get it built quicker. And if Ehrlich wins the governor's seat this fall, the red line could be scrapped all together and a BRT system put in its place. Same thing with the purple line in southern MD.

As for the green line, I can't believe it has never been expanded eastward in over almost 30 years....the east side of Baltimore city and county have no rail-based transit to get downtown. I believe it should extend to White Marsh as it does for Owings Mills on the west side.

In Baltimore, the motto for mass transit should be: "be thankful for what you get".

^^Maglev is too expensive to be implemented in the near future(for the next 25 years). I would not think it would be an option. I'd say a high speed rail line connecting not just Baltimore with DC but One that connects the three Airports (Dulles, Reagan, BWI) should be thought of.
And the red line better go all the way to Germantown! Hopefully it will lighten the traffic from on 270. But the real traffic problem is From Frederick city to Germantown. They were initially proposing an extended metro there but due to our Topography it wouldn't be possible.
PS, I live in Frederick too.

Interesting, I am in Frederick County, too. I put down Baltimore since that is the city I was raised in.

I also think that a contingency of Frederick natives would hate to see the metro come all the way to Frederick.

^^I'd have to agree with that. But it's not going to be possible so why bother about it anyways?

The Governor election is going to play a big part in the future of mass transit in Baltimore, and Maryland, in general...

http://wjz.com/local/transportation.governor.race.2.1865082.html

BALTIMORE (WJZ) ―

Governor Martin O'Malley says Maryland has to "dial up mass transit." His opponent, Bob Ehrlich, says there needs to be a better mix of road and mass transit projects and has been sharply critical of problems on MARC trains.

Mike Hellgren takes a closer look at transportation and why it's creating a politically charged controversy.

At the center of the debate: how to best spend your tax dollars--billions of them--and whether they'll be spent in the D.C. suburbs or in Baltimore.

Both incumbent Democratic Governor Martin O'Malley and his Republican challenger Bob Ehrlich have traded barbs over transportation that started with the massive MARC mess when heat-related equipment failures left angry riders stranded for hours.

The two clashed again after O'Malley stated that there's no more room for new roads as he pushed for mass transit, including the purple line connecting Bethesda and New Carrollton and the red line through Baltimore.

Ehrlich wants to scrap both the red and purple lines. Combined, they cost $3 billion.

"My chosen route with regard to both is Rapid Bus," Ehrlich said.

He says the cash that saves would go to better use fixing the troubled MARC and D.C. metro systems.

"I would rather tell people straight up, this is what we can afford. This is what is unaffordable. This is what we can do in the short term," Ehrlich said.

Construction is underway now on the massive Intercounty Connector [highway] project, championed by both O'Malley and Ehrlich.

Another very expensive project under discussion is the expansion of Interstate 270.

"I'm more for roads because I don't use public transit. I never have," said Shirley Summers.

"It seems as though the infrastructure is built for the rich and the upper middle class without considering the majority of people who ride buses and trains, who deserve to have those run safely and on time," said Edward Schrader.

An open question is whether Maryland would raise the gas tax to pay for these expensive projects. O'Malley has not said whether he would or not; Ehrlich says he has no plans to do so but didn't say no definitively.

Both O'Malley and Ehrlich have raised more than $3 million each for their campaigns, but O'Malley has more cash on hand. Their campaign finance reports are due by midnight.

Without getting into politics, I wish that public transportation as an issue were de-politicized in the U.S. It's annoying to finally get plans finalized only to have them scuttled as a result of an election.

Substituting BRT would be a mistake, assuming it's even real BRT and not just an old diesel bus with a new paint job.

The Governor election is going to play a big part in the future of mass transit in Baltimore, and Maryland, in general...

http://wjz.com/local/transportation.governor.race.2.1865082.html

Without getting into politics, I wish that public transportation as an issue were de-politicized in the U.S. It's annoying to finally get plans finalized only to have them scuttled as a result of an election.

Substituting BRT would be a mistake, assuming it's even real BRT and not just an old diesel bus with a new paint job.

The "QuickBus" routes Baltimore currently has are pretty much BRT right now, and they were done under Ehrlich's previous time as governor. They stop at transfer points and major stops along the route. I rode it for the first time last month and it did its job OK. The sign at the end of rt 70 teasing the Red Line said "downtown in 19 mins". The QB got me downtown in 25 mins -- in rush hour and heavy rain. I'd still much rather have the Red Line, but a "real" BRT wouldn't be a total disaster. Like I said earlier, here in Baltimore we have to take what's given to us and be thankful for it. The alternative is nothing -- and that alternative is always a very big possibility.

In a perfect world, politics wouldn't get in the way of transportation priorities...unfortunately, we don't live in a perfect world. People need to wake up and realize that if Bob Ehrlich is elected, the Red Line can pretty much be declared dead. The purple line too. Just today Ehrlich went on the record saying he would restore millions of dollars towards road reconstruction rather than mass transit...I mean his father was a car dealer...does anyone seriously think this guy has any idea what to do in terms of mass transit??? Transportation is a huge issue that effects everything ranging from jobs to the environment which is why there's no doubt in my mind that this coming fall I will be voting O'Malley.

In a perfect world, politics wouldn't get in the way of transportation priorities...unfortunately, we don't live in a perfect world. People need to wake up and realize that if Bob Ehrlich is elected, the Red Line can pretty much be declared dead.

Ehrlich's made noises about public transit not paying its own way through fare collection alone...how does that compare to the Inter-County Connector (highway) he wants to build? Good thing for him that intellectual inconsistency isn't painful.

One of the reason's I'm a big rail proponent over bus is that rail projects, once started, are far less easy to out-and-out cancel than bus routes. They're more immune to shifting political winds. Effective transit require long-term consistent planning which is one reason it generally sucks in the U.S.; we have one faction that tepidly supports it and one that generally works to kill it off, or at least minimize its funding (and therefore its effectiveness).

I don't think the construction of the ICC was a good idea IMO.

What are his stanches on some other things? Crime , taxes , schools i heard he was unpopular governor before.

Does anyone have any pictures and updates about construction of extension to the Dulles airport?

I, too, would prefer heavy rail for the Red Line and they would run it first from West Baltimore MARC to Charles Center, then up Charles Street, through the village, to JHU, to start. I can dream.

As far as Maglev, I doubt it'll be built anytime in the next 25-50 years, but UPenn just put out a new High Speed Rail vision document. It prescribes using most of the current NEC between Baltimore and DC, except it bypasses the B&P Tunnel and Penn Station, in favor of a Downtown station at Charles Center. They're not the first to recommend an underground intercitiy/commuter rail station there, so there might be something to the idea.

I think expanding BWI Rail Station with a couple of island platforms, adding the extra 1 or 2 tracks from there down to New Carrollton, and skipping the B&P would vastly improve speeds.

O'Malley already wants to study expanding BWI Rail, so at least if he's reelected, there might be some traction on that project.

I don't think the construction of the ICC was a good idea IMO.
As much as traversing Montgomery County E/W is a pain, I think that the project is not without its benefits. I just hope the tolls don't render the road largely unused like the Dulles Greenway.

I do understand Ehrlich's hesitance to invest in two light rail lines at once, when there is apparently no money for either one and the MARC lines are in desperate needs of improvements. But he is still going to invest heavily in roads. If anything, the DC area needs less new roads and more comprehensive mass transit.

On a side note, I took the DC metro downtown last Friday and they've basically priced themselves out of the market. It cost me and my wife $16 to park and take the metro from Shady Grove to Metro Center. As soon as we stepped out of the station I saw a garage advertising parking for $13 a day. I am not a fan of driving and parking in DC, but in the future I am going to have to think long and hard about taking the metro again when I can just drive. Plus, the ride from SG to MC is a long 40 minutes.

As much as traversing Montgomery County E/W is a pain, I think that the project is not without its benefits. I just hope the tolls don't render the road largely unused like the Dulles Greenway.

This is I-370 right? They're going to start toll in that?:bash:

This is I-370 right? They're going to start toll in that?:bash:

It starts at the east end of (still free) I-370. The ICC will be signed as MD 200.

An opinion piece on Bob Ehrlich's insistence on BRT as a substitute for the planned light rail lines in Maryland.

http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/news/opinion/2010/08/post_126.html

Some states governors can't kill projects without a vote. Is Maryland one of those states?

I do understand Ehrlich's hesitance to invest in two light rail lines at once, when there is apparently no money for either one and the MARC lines are in desperate needs of improvements. But he is still going to invest heavily in roads. If anything, the DC area needs less new roads and more comprehensive mass transit.

On a side note, I took the DC metro downtown last Friday and they've basically priced themselves out of the market. It cost me and my wife $16 to park and take the metro from Shady Grove to Metro Center. As soon as we stepped out of the station I saw a garage advertising parking for $13 a day. I am not a fan of driving and parking in DC, but in the future I am going to have to think long and hard about taking the metro again when I can just drive. Plus, the ride from SG to MC is a long 40 minutes.

Just get a day pass.

I do understand Ehrlich's hesitance to invest in two light rail lines at once, when there is apparently no money for either one and the MARC lines are in desperate needs of improvements. But he is still going to invest heavily in roads. If anything, the DC area needs less new roads and more comprehensive mass transit.

On a side note, I took the DC metro downtown last Friday and they've basically priced themselves out of the market. It cost me and my wife $16 to park and take the metro from Shady Grove to Metro Center. As soon as we stepped out of the station I saw a garage advertising parking for $13 a day. I am not a fan of driving and parking in DC, but in the future I am going to have to think long and hard about taking the metro again when I can just drive. Plus, the ride from SG to MC is a long 40 minutes.

And driving on I-270 is any better? It's one of the most congested Interstates in the US.

Just get a day pass.

Day passes are $9. That would be $18 for my wife and I, and I already have a SmarTrip card which is needed to pay for parking. Plus, without a SmarTrip card the fares are higher.

And driving on I-270 is any better? It's one of the most congested Interstates in the US.

We were driving down to DC on a Friday at 1 p.m., so the highways may not have been as bad as they would have been at 3-7 p.m. Besides, I don't mind taking the metro, but my wife isn't a fan and when she pointed the $13 garage out to me I just shook my head. Chances are we still would have been stuck in traffic on 270 or 495, though.

I just think that the cost to ride the DC metro during non-peak times is making it less attractive to people headed to DC.

So...I used the light rail to attend a Ravens game in Baltimore this past weekend and it has just further cemented my belief that the MTA just can't get a freaking clue how to work the LR for football games.

First off, I was running late. That may have been the biggest problem, but I still got to the Nursery Road LR station with 30 mins until kickoff. As I was parking, I saw a train arrive and pull away. However, a minute later, another train arrived, and I boarded, thinking I would still have plenty of time to get to the stadium in time. But since the two trains were so close, my train had to sit at each station for a few mins at a time to create space between the trains. All said and done, a trip that normally takes 15 mins took 25 mins. Whatever. So I arrived at the game a few minutes after it started. Not a big deal.

On the way home, I was running to the station as the 9:52 pm southbound train left the Camden Yards station. OK, bad luck, since I would not be writing this had I caught that train. However, the next train was schedule to arrive at 10:08 pm, but it never showed. So in the end, I waited 30 mins for the next train, which was the 10:23 pm train. And this was before the game had even ended. But, since it was a preseason game, more fans were leaving early, which created big crowds at both the Camden Yards station and the stadium station.

I have taken the LR several times, and the bad times unfortunately outweigh the good. MTA either doesn't understand the need for more trains during sporting events or just doesn't care. Had the 10:08 train arrived on time, it would have still been a long 15 min wait for a train during a major sporting event. But waiting a full 30 mins is ridiculous.

From now on, I will only take the LR when I am forced to. Until then, I will taking the #40 quickbus, which has 15 minute headways all day, and doesn't run through the crowded streets during sporting events.

One thing I've been wondering about DC: does it need any subway lines that primarily serve the city proper or will the new tram lines be taking care of that?

http://images.nycsubway.org/i90000/img_90130.jpg
I thought our stations must be the dingiest.....the escalator down to the lines at Snowdon was broken the other day,
so by the time we'd made it to the last flight of the long, parallel staircase, it became too tricky properly seeing the steps.

All underground DC metro stations look like that. They look like moon bases to me...

I think the DC Metro is one of the most beautiful in the world. It definitely needs updating and refurbishments, but no can deny that it is a beautifully designed system.

Has the DC Metro ever considered running skip-stop service? I think it could increase capacity and reduce trip times.

During the morning rush, picture each train stopping at only every second station on the inbound, then stopping at all stations on the outbound. If your destination is skipped by trains from your starting point, you have to go past your station, then transfer to a train running in the opposite direction.

Requiring passengers to transfer is a pain, but it should not be too big of an issue for most riders. During the morning rush, most riders are heading downtown. Downtown stations are very close together, so many people will choose to simply get off at an alternate station and walk an extra block or two instead of transferring. Also, many riders from the outer suburbs drive to their starting point, so they can drive to a different starting station to avoid having to transfer.

For the evening rush, you'd switch to skip-stop service for outbound, all-stop service for inbound.

Has the DC Metro ever considered running skip-stop service? I think it could increase capacity and reduce trip times.

During the morning rush, picture each train stopping at only every second station on the inbound, then stopping at all stations on the outbound. If your destination is skipped by trains from your starting point, you have to go past your station, then transfer to a train running in the opposite direction.

Requiring passengers to transfer is a pain, but it should not be too big of an issue for most riders. During the morning rush, most riders are heading downtown. Downtown stations are very close together, so many people will choose to simply get off at an alternate station and walk an extra block or two instead of transferring. Also, many riders from the outer suburbs drive to their starting point, so they can drive to a different starting station to avoid having to transfer.

For the evening rush, you'd switch to skip-stop service for outbound, all-stop service for inbound.

One thing I've been wondering about DC: does it need any subway lines that primarily serve the city proper or will the new tram lines be taking care of that?

The DC streetcars (when completed) will serve the purpose of providing intra-city transport, but DC could certainly benefit with at least one, if not two new subway lines through the city center. The aforementioned separated Blue Line along M and then H streets (running parallel to the current Orange Line) should be the priority, especially after the Silver Line comes fully on line in 2016.

From GGW:
http://images.greatergreaterwashington.org/images/200804/metro20303.png

Large:
http://greatergreaterwashington.org/image.cgi?src=200804/metro20303large.png&ref=790

'Detoggling' the Yellow Line from the Green Line through the city center has also been suggested (http://greatergreaterwashington.org/post.cgi?id=2720).

As far as 'primarily serving the city proper', that would be a tough sell for a regional agency like WMATA, and there would be the usual hue and cry from suburbanites about money being spent on something that doesn't directly benefit them. Pretty much any new trunk lines will have the extend a fair bit into the suburbs to be politically feasible.

From Humberto Gilmer at GGW:
http://images.greatergreaterwashington.org/images/201006/gilmermap.jpg

This Metro buildout would also be nice. (http://greatergreaterwashington.org/image.cgi?src=201006/gilmermaplarge.jpg&ref=6079)

Maybe we'll get it around the year 2150 or so. :)

Has the DC Metro ever considered running skip-stop service? I think it could increase capacity and reduce trip times.

During the morning rush, picture each train stopping at only every second station on the inbound, then stopping at all stations on the outbound. If your destination is skipped by trains from your starting point, you have to go past your station, then transfer to a train running in the opposite direction.

Requiring passengers to transfer is a pain, but it should not be too big of an issue for most riders. During the morning rush, most riders are heading downtown. Downtown stations are very close together, so many people will choose to simply get off at an alternate station and walk an extra block or two instead of transferring. Also, many riders from the outer suburbs drive to their starting point, so they can drive to a different starting station to avoid having to transfer.

For the evening rush, you'd switch to skip-stop service for outbound, all-stop service for inbound.

If memory serves, the tunnels and track layout aren't built to accommodate this type of service. "Fast" trains would be unable to get around "slow" trains. If the new M Street Blue Line is built it should be built with skip-stop service in mind.

Hmm double post

If memory serves, the tunnels and track layout aren't built to accommodate this type of service. "Fast" trains would be unable to get around "slow" trains. If the new M Street Blue Line is built it should be built with skip-stop service in mind.

Why would a skip stop train ever have to pass? The whole idea is two trains more or less follow each other but stopping at alternative stations. So in theory both benefit from missing half the stations without the pain of slowing down other trains, hence it does in theory increase capacity and reduces travel time.

So...I used the light rail to attend a Ravens game in Baltimore this past weekend and it has just further cemented my belief that the MTA just can't get a freaking clue how to work the LR for football games.

First off, I was running late. That may have been the biggest problem, but I still got to the Nursery Road LR station with 30 mins until kickoff. As I was parking, I saw a train arrive and pull away. However, a minute later, another train arrived, and I boarded, thinking I would still have plenty of time to get to the stadium in time. But since the two trains were so close, my train had to sit at each station for a few mins at a time to create space between the trains. All said and done, a trip that normally takes 15 mins took 25 mins. Whatever. So I arrived at the game a few minutes after it started. Not a big deal.

On the way home, I was running to the station as the 9:52 pm southbound train left the Camden Yards station. OK, bad luck, since I would not be writing this had I caught that train. However, the next train was schedule to arrive at 10:08 pm, but it never showed. So in the end, I waited 30 mins for the next train, which was the 10:23 pm train. And this was before the game had even ended. But, since it was a preseason game, more fans were leaving early, which created big crowds at both the Camden Yards station and the stadium station.

I have taken the LR several times, and the bad times unfortunately outweigh the good. MTA either doesn't understand the need for more trains during sporting events or just doesn't care. Had the 10:08 train arrived on time, it would have still been a long 15 min wait for a train during a major sporting event. But waiting a full 30 mins is ridiculous.

From now on, I will only take the LR when I am forced to. Until then, I will taking the #40 quickbus, which has 15 minute headways all day, and doesn't run through the crowded streets during sporting events.

Well imagine if you were waiting for the train and instead of waiting say 15 minutes you waited 25-30 because the train that was supposed to be there left 10 minutes early. All transit systems do this to adjust for the schedule. That way a train will come every 15 minutes for example, instead of 2 trains coming within 5 minutes and then people have to wait 25 for another one.


Has the DC Metro ever considered running skip-stop service? I think it could increase capacity and reduce trip times.

During the morning rush, picture each train stopping at only every second station on the inbound, then stopping at all stations on the outbound. If your destination is skipped by trains from your starting point, you have to go past your station, then transfer to a train running in the opposite direction.

Requiring passengers to transfer is a pain, but it should not be too big of an issue for most riders. During the morning rush, most riders are heading downtown. Downtown stations are very close together, so many people will choose to simply get off at an alternate station and walk an extra block or two instead of transferring. Also, many riders from the outer suburbs drive to their starting point, so they can drive to a different starting station to avoid having to transfer.

For the evening rush, you'd switch to skip-stop service for outbound, all-stop service for inbound.

You are talking about an express train. Wouldn't you need to have a third rail to do something like this? Does the Metro have third rails?

How's the DC Metro area doing these days? I haven't been down that way since May '08. The rapid growth over the past 20+ years has been insane----especially because because new developments are your done so quickly. lol

Why would a skip stop train ever have to pass? The whole idea is two trains more or less follow each other but stopping at alternative stations. So in theory both benefit from missing half the stations without the pain of slowing down other trains, hence it does in theory increase capacity and reduces travel time.
Exactly. You get the benefits of reduced average travel time and the resulting increased system capacity without requiring any extra cars or tracks. The downside is that some passengers have to transfer to reach their desired destinations.

Chicago's metro ("L") had skip-stop service for many years, finally abandoning it totally in 1995, although it was discontinued on some lines previous to that date. For a good discussion of the pros and cons of skip-stop service, (which may or may not apply to Washington's metro), follow this link:

http://www.chicago-l.org/operations/lines/route_ops/A-B.html

Interestingly, on some lines ridership went up significantly when skip-stop was abandoned simply because waiting times on the platform were reduced.

Wait time effect on ridership-- any idea if that was a bigger issue for outdoor stations than for underground stations? Seems like it should be, especially in the middle of a Chicago winter. DC weather is less severe, and much of DC's metro is underground, so the wait time effect may be insignificant.

You are absolutely correct. Of Chicago's "L" route mileage:

11% - Subway
55% - Elevated
34% - Freeway median running plus some grade level running on a couple of lines in the burbs.

So unlike Washington, In January a Chicagoan is much more exposed to the (often) brutal Chicago winters waiting on outdoor platforms, since on a route mileage basis 89% of the lines are outdoors.

Some states governors can't kill projects without a vote. Is Maryland one of those states?

Doubt it. From what I hear, Maryland's governor is among the most powerful in the United States. I had an economics proffesor at Towson University tell me that he thought the governor of Illinois was powerful...until he moved to MD. I'm pretty sure whoever is elected governor would have the ability to veto, or atleast delay, something such as the Red and Purple Lines.

Does Washington DC itself have any control over what gets built where?

That is, can the city construct a separate subway network that serves the capital's urban area, or is transit funding a hostage to suburban politics?

Does Washington DC itself have any control over what gets built where?

That is, can the city construct a separate subway network that serves the capital's urban area, or is transit funding a hostage to suburban politics?

The regional transit agency, WMATA, has control of funds for operations and potential expansions. It would be hypothetically possible to build a downtown-only Metro subway line, but very unlikely considering the political and tax structure of the area. Any new cross-town lines will almost certainly extend into the suburbs (not necessarily a bad thing). WMATA also doesn't have dedicated funding and is heavily dependent on federal grants.

Washington Metro is more like a hybrid between Metro and Commuter Rail than are older style Metros like Paris's or New York City's. It was also designed primarily as a way to ferry suburbanites in and out of the city and not as an intra-city transit system, which explains its 'radial' rather than 'net like' layout. This also helps explain why ticket prices are distance-based rather than a flat fee.

In short, there's nothing stopping the city proper from constructing its own subway system (Tokyo and Philadelphia both have subways run by different agencies, as does NYC if you count PATH) except 1). lack of perceived need and 2). lack of funding. Also, much of the city is already serviced by Metro, so at this point more subway construction is mainly "filling in the gaps", so there's not overwhelming pressure for an intra-city subway network.

The city is doing something similar to building its own parallel network anyway, with the new streetcars. The streetcars will be operated by DCDOT and not by WMATA, so where their routes are placed will not be subject to the whims of those in Virginia and Maryland.

For inter-city transit, the circulator buses in DC and Baltimore have both had a lot of success lately. I like the idea of bringing back streetcars, but really, it's nothing that the circulator buses can't already do.

http://www.dccirculator.com/

http://www.charmcitycirculator.com/

For inter-city transit, the circulator buses in DC and Baltimore have both had a lot of success lately. I like the idea of bringing back streetcars, but really, it's nothing that the circulator buses can't already do.

http://www.dccirculator.com/

http://www.charmcitycirculator.com/

The streetcars will do much better than the buses for one reason in particular: Permanence, A bus can be taken away overnight, but a streetcar line? The rails in the street show it isn't going anywhere, at least not without one hell of an embarssing fight.

The streetcars will do much better than the buses for one reason in particular: Permanence, A bus can be taken away overnight, but a streetcar line? The rails in the street show it isn't going anywhere, at least not without one hell of an embarssing fight.

Agree/disagree.

We all see the abandoned streetcar tracks in cities across America everyday...so they weren't exactly permanent.

Yet buses are still running, 60 years later.

Don't get me wrong, I'd rather have rail based service over buses all the time. But I still do believe buses are better for inter city transportation.

I took the #40 quickbus to the O's game last night. Got me downtown in 15 mins. The LR and subway in Baltimore can't do that.

We all see the abandoned streetcar tracks in cities across America everyday...so they weren't exactly permanent.

That's true, but the "streetcar holocaust" as it's called is very unlikely to happen again. Also, we don't so much see abandoned tracks as we do no tracks at all--most were removed so they could be melted down for scrap iron. In some places, Baltimore, Pittsburgh, a little bit in NW D.C., you can still see semi-intact tracks.

I've got nothing against intra-city buses per se (I use them all the time), but I think for higher-volume routes streetcars are better (and grade-separated heavy rail better still, if warranted). The surety and permanence of their route is part of their appeal, and part of the reason anti-transit nuts don't like them...far easier to get rid of buses if they get the upper hand.

That said, the importance of buses to D.C. can't be overstated. If WMATA would get on board with Google maps and share their info, it'd be a happy day for area transit users.

Does anyone know why Baltimore does not score on the transit score application on walkscore.com

http://blog.walkscore.com/2010/08/transit-score-on-your-site/

Walkscore.com places a score based on the walkability of an address by proximity to restaurants, bars, theaters, etc are within walking distance using google maps. The Transit score application within walkscore.com scores transit options, but this particular option is not working for Baltimore. It might relate to MTA's lack of open data.

Any thoughts?

The streetcars will do much better than the buses for one reason in particular: Permanence, A bus can be taken away overnight, but a streetcar line? The rails in the street show it isn't going anywhere, at least not without one hell of an embarssing fight.
Standards for good streetcar systems are:
- Intervals not more then 7min. (tolerance to maximum 10-12min.)
- Lines not shorter then 4 miles (6km)
- Dedicated lanes (tolerance for bus or taxi, but better without them)
- 2-3 lines on one section, for more possible rides without transfer

The most of cities in USA which wanna make streetcar line, plan it like short lines with long intervals, and streetcar like this more look like a fashion then useful type of transport.

Main benefits of streetcar are:
- Much more business and tourist activities near streetcar lines, especially little business activities
- Streetcar is the favorite type of transit, and the most successful alternative for cars in downtown area. Standing in streetcar don't make people tired like standing in bus.
- One streetcar user uses 1/15 city space of car user. Saved city space may be used for parks, trees in the street, pedestrian and semi-pedestrian streets, and make city relaxed and more comfortable for life.
- Better service and better image for tourists and other guests in the city. Streetcars track make people better oriented, like backbone of city connections.
- Possibility for using like stage of building long distance and rapid LRT, or like downtown part of long LRT line.(streetcar is one kind of LRT).
- Lower operating costs, higher possible capacity and better reliability then buses, like technical benefits.
- Ecology reasons.

Streetcar projects need more knowledge in planing and operating, like all railways, and that is especially important for new systems, where there is no staff with experience. I think that USA transit agencies can make great development if they use staff and experts from Europian and CIS states.

Standards for good streetcar systems are:
- Intervals not more then 7min. (tolerance to maximum 10-12min.)
- Lines not shorter then 4 miles (6km)
- Dedicated lanes (tolerance for bus or taxi, but better without them)
- 2-3 lines on one section, for more possible rides without transfer

K Street in D.C. is particularly suited for streetcars, as it has lanes that were designed for the first D.C. streetcar system dating from the late 19th century.

Map showing all proposed (some alternate) routes:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2327/1534390507_60a192f620.jpg?v=0


36 Reasons Streetcars Are Better Than Buses (http://www.infrastructurist.com/2009/06/03/36-reasons-that-streetcars-are-better-than-buses/)

The D.C. Circulator bus system currently in place is fine, but some of the more heavily traveled routes warrant upgrade to rail.

It would be interesting to see DC's streetcars having some premetro sections, akin to the Brussels tram system.

It would be interesting to see DC's streetcars having some premetro sections, akin to the Brussels tram system.

The old D.C. streetcar ran underground for a short distance at Dupont Circle, and had one underground station. There aren't currently any plans for the streetcars to go to Dupont Circle, let alone reuse the old tunnel.

Photo by conoperative (http://www.conoperative.com/):
http://www.conoperative.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/IMG_2422-600x450.jpg

Dupont Circle Underground (http://www.conoperative.com/blog/2009/08/dupont-circle-underground/)

Beneath Dupont, A Renaissance in the Making (http://dcmud.blogspot.com/2010/02/beneath-dupont-renaissance-in-making.html)

I doubt if any of the new D.C. streetcars will run in newly-dug tunnels, except for a few key sections to avoid road crossings (like the section near Union Station, which will be briefly below street level near H and North Capitol Streets), but it might be a good long-term idea to put the proposed 7th Street line in a short tunnel underneath the National Mall, perhaps with one underground station.

My opinion is that if you're going to go through the expense of digging a long tunnel with subterranean stations you might as well make it heavy rail (Metro).

President Barack Obama’s plan to create a government-run “infrastructure bank” could have a major impact on how Maryland pays for projects and on the people who invest in the state’s bonds.

Obama, in a Labor Day speech in Milwaukee, touted the proposal as a way to help states and local governments fund needed improvements to roads, rails and airports. The idea is to pool federal dollars and private funds and lend them to states and municipalities to pay for these projects. The plan’s details have yet to be spelled out and must eventually be approved by Congress.

The infrastructure bank would give Maryland an alternative to issuing its own bonds to pay for transportation projects such as the proposed Red Line on Baltimore’s Metro and the Purple Line linking Montgomery and Prince George’s counties, transportation advocates say.

But as Steven Isberg, an associate professor of finance at the Merrick School of Business at the University of Baltimore points out, it has yet to be determined how much the federal government would charge states to borrow from the infrastructure bank. That makes it difficult to know whether it would be cheaper for Maryland to issue its own bonds or borrow from the government-run bank, Isberg said.


Read more: Obama’s plan could alter Md.’s transportation funds - Baltimore Business Journal

I have a feeling if Ehrlich wins the governor's race, then the red line and purple line will either be put on hold while he is in office or be replaced with half-assed BRT service.

I do think that BRT could serve as a decent substitute for the red line though. The #40 quick bus gets downtown in 20 mins from the end of route 70. Not bad.

Does Washington DC itself have any control over what gets built where?

That is, can the city construct a separate subway network that serves the capital's urban area, or is transit funding a hostage to suburban politics?

The closest equivalent is the proposal to build an M Street tunnel to relieve Rosslyn's bottleneck and give Georgetown a Metro stop. Because this involves tunnelling under the Potomac and rebuilding Rosslyn, there's no issue of location.

In real life, the Silver Line is being funded partly by WMATA despite only being in Virginia, so once again the location is less of an issue than importance.

Well, if Ehrlich does get elected(and I have a feeling he will), I hope he has a change of heart and decides to support the construction of Purple and Red Lines in the future.

I don't know if it has been said yet, but from 1-Aug the ticket price has been increased.
On 2-Aug I charged some 4/5$ to get to West Falls Church. The gate didn't open and the guy in the staff booth told me that from 1-Aug the fares had been raised of another .50$ ("never mind for this time, go ahead", he said).
The funny thing is that they didn't put any advice in other stations such as Mt Vernon sq or Metro center.
It's the cleanest and most futuristic subway (its stations remember a lunar base and some Soviet era stations) I've ever seen, but it's the most expensive one, too.

I don't know if it has been said yet, but from 1-Aug the ticket price has been increased.
On 2-Aug I charged some 4/5$ to get to West Falls Church. The gate didn't open and the guy in the staff booth told me that from 1-Aug the fares had been raised of another .50$ ("never mind for this time, go ahead", he said).
The funny thing is that they didn't put any advice in other stations such as Mt Vernon sq or Metro center.
It's the cleanest and most futuristic subway (its stations remember a lunar base and some Soviet era stations) I've ever seen, but it's the most expensive one, too.

The point has been made that the D.C. Metro functions as both a downtown subway and as an ad hoc commuter rail system for the D.C. area. Washington D.C. has commuter rail (VRE and MARC), but it's pretty bad in both coverage and service frequencies (not to mention lack of weekend service), nowhere near the standards of the LIRR in New York, Chicago's Metra, or Boston's MBTA commuter trains. This theory (kind of) explains the relatively high fares and the distance-based fare system used in D.C.

D.C. has a draconian prohibition on food and drink in the Metro (they don't mess around--a girl was ARRESTED a few years ago for eating french fries on a train), which is one of the reasons it's kept so clean. I think Athens has a similar policy. The "no food" policy has advantages and disadvantages.

The stark station designs have aged well, I think. They're not as visually engaging or contemporary as some of the newer European stations (the newer stations of the Naples Metro come to mind) but they're not exceedingly ugly (older Boston Blue Line stations) (http://media.photobucket.com/image/boston blue line aquarium/anoop_ha/Boston Whale watching/pic1.jpg?o=1" target="_blank"><img src="http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c176/anoop_ha/Boston%20Whale%20watching/pic1.jpg) or tacky (Los Angeles Red Line (http://mic-ro.com/metro/400/los-angeles-hollywood-vine.jpg)) either.

At least those stations have an unique look I've never seen before. Furthermore, the red blinking lights whenever a train is coming are really important.
However I think that the lights in the stations are too dim.

I agree that wmata metro plays an important role for commuters: On the Orange line, I heard two men who were talking about how they left their car home and avoided being stuck into the congested beltway every morning.

OMG @that kitsch LA subway photo :O
That old Blue Line outbound station should be somewhere before Airport station, right? I remember it.

O'Malley proposes $90 million for transit projects...

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/bs-md-transportation-spending-20100920,0,3385067.story

That is, if he wins in November...

O'Malley-Ehrlich transportation gulf is wide

Incumbent would build light rail; challenger would scrap it

This time around, in their rematch for governor, the differences between Martin O'Malley and Robert L. Ehrlich Jr. on transportation issues are stark.

Unlike 2006, when the two substantially agreed on the state's largest road project, in 2010 the Democratic incumbent and Republican challenger are at odds on billion-dollar decisions that could determine how Marylanders will get from place to place for decades to come.

If O'Malley is re-elected, he will almost certainly keep Maryland on a course toward construction of two long-sought but expensive light rail systems — the $1.8 billion Red Line in Baltimore and the $1.6 billion Purple Line in the Washington suburbs. As governor, Ehrlich supported the planning process on both lines, but has turned against them as proposed by O'Malley. The Republican has vowed to scuttle light rail on both lines, saying rapid bus lines are his preferred choice.



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The two candidates, both of whom answered questions from The Baltimore Sun last week, also have significant differences over the question of financing transportation. O'Malley expressed his views in a face-to-face interview, while Ehrlich provided written answers to questions submitted by the newspaper.

For Ehrlich, the transit issue has complicated his relationship with business leaders, who tend otherwise to be receptive to Republican appeals. In the populous suburbs of Washington, the influential Greater Washington Board of Trade is an enthusiastic supporter of light rail on the Purple Line. The Greater Baltimore Committee is equally committed to O'Malley's plan for the Red Line.

The Board of Trade, which supported Ehrlich in his 2002 and 2006 runs for governor, cited the Purple Line last week when it threw its endorsement to O'Malley. The GBC does not endorse candidates, but has expressed misgivings about Ehrlich's stance on the Red Line.

In the past, both men have shown a willingness to raise revenues for transportation — O'Malley through taxation in 2007, and Ehrlich in the form of fees in 2004.

In the 2007 special General Assembly session called to deal with budget issues, O'Malley raised about $400 million a year for transportation by raising the titling tax and by increasing the sales tax and devoting a part of the proceeds to the Transportation Trust Fund. The fund, which collects roughly $2.7 billion in state funds each year to pay for transportation infrastructure, has been under severe pressure in recent years to keep up with growing demand for maintenance and expansion.

Ehrlich has vowed to roll back the sales tax increase from 6 percent to 5 percent, though he indicated he would continue to dedicate a percentage to transportation. He estimated that the rollback would cost the Transportation Trust Fund no more than $48 million each year — a number he called "manageable." He said he has no plans to cut the titling tax, which is, in effect, a sales tax on cars.

The two governors' priorities — expressed in hard dollars — also have differed significantly. O'Malley has brought about a clear shift in projected capital spending away from highways and in favor of transit projects.

In Ehrlich's last transportation plan as governor, the state projected capital spending of roughly 28 cents on the Maryland Transit Administration — which administers buses, light rail, the Baltimore Metro and MARC — for every dollar spent on highways in fiscal 2008. O'Malley's plan for 2012 calls for spending 50 cents on the MTA for every dollar on the highways.

In four years under O'Malley the percentage of capital transportation funding directed to highways has declined from 54 percent to 48 percent. Meanwhile the combined total for the MTA and Washington Metro system has grown from 28 percent to 35 percent.

O'Malley said the shift is consistent with the platform he campaigned on in 2006. He added that as two major road projects — the Intercounty Connector and the express tolls lanes on Interstate 95 northeast of Baltimore — wind down, and if the proposed light rail lines move forward as expected later this decade, the shift could become more pronounced.

"We can't build enough roads to ease the congestion that's coming," he said. "We have to find other options."

Ehrlich said O'Malley's spending on transit is "out of balance'" because the governor has wasted millions of dollars on planning light rail systems that he said "can't be built without massive tax increases."

"My administration would restore the balance between working on transit and highways by setting realistic priorities," he said.

O'Malley has also held the line on bus and rail fares at a time when transit agencies across the country have been charging more for their services. He said he hopes to keep fares stable for another four years in the hope of attracting more riders, with the goal of doubling ridership.

Ehrlich didn't criticize O'Malley's fare freeze but said there is a trade-off between stable fares and service quality.

"Once in office we will have to look for the right balance between improving transit services and maintaining transit fares," he said. The former governor rejected a proposal by some General Assembly Republicans to adopt a cost-recovery formula that could force a roughly 50 percent increase in fares.

During his four-year term, Ehrlich put the weight of his office solidly behind highways. His No. 1 priority, which he successfully steered to federal approval after a half-century of starts and stops, was the $2.5 billion Intercounty Connector, a toll highway that will run from Gaithersburg to Laurel.

O'Malley has continued work on the ICC and the other mega-project launched under Ehrlich — the $994 million widening of I-95 between Baltimore and White Marsh — but scaled the latter project back and delayed completion to shift Maryland Transportation Authority funds into the maintenance of existing facilities.

Ehrlich called the changes to the project — eliminating interchanges to Route 43 and the Beltway — "a real shame."



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The Republican has also faulted O'Malley for diverting the highway user funds, which the state usually provides to local governments each year for road projects, in order to help close budget shortfalls in fiscal 2010 and 2011

As a former mayor who depended on such funds, O'Malley said, he "hated" to make that cut.

"I went to it reluctantly and went to it only as the other options were exhausted," he said. "I hope it can be one of the first things we can restore as revenues can come back."

But the governor refused to commit a specific amount to local aid, saying he doesn't have a "crystal ball" on revenue collections.

Ehrlich has promised to restore one-quarter of that money in his first year in office — suggesting he would use $80 million O'Malley wants to direct toward engineering on the Red and Purple lines.

The rivals have also clashed over the future of the state's MARC commuter train system. After a Penn Line train was stranded on the tracks outside Washington for two hours in the stifling heat in June, Ehrlich attacked O'Malley's stewardship of MARC, again suggesting that Red and Purple line money could be redirected into improvements.

O'Malley countered that a deficit in MARC investments during Ehrlich's administration had hurt the system. The governor said his administration had doubled capital spending on MARC — investing in 13 new railcars and 26 new locomotives — even at a time when the transportation budget was under stress. In fact, Maryland Transportation Department figures show an increase from $102 million in Ehrlich's last budget to $195 million in 2010.

"The Hell Train incident allowed Bob Ehrlich to discover the MARC train," O'Malley said.

Ehrlich responded that his administration was quicker to react to MARC problems and "did not experience the horrific occurrences of the O'Malley administration."

Even more than MARC, it is the Red Line and Purple Line that divide the two candidates. Ehrlich contends that Maryland can't afford to build two new light rail lines; O'Malley says the state can't afford not to.

O'Malley chose light rail as the preferred mode on the two lines in 2009 after a long period of public hearings and consensus-building. The current plans for both lines have drawn the support of a strong majority of local elected officials; hearings showed little demand for bus rapid transit — a system that would separate the vehicles from other traffic for significant stretches of their route.

The governor remains vague on the question of how Maryland would pay its presumed 50 percent cost of building any new transit line the federal government might approve — noting that the Congress could alter that formula when it takes up a new transportation spending bill. He mentioned the possibility of a public-private partnership, though there isn't much precedent for such deals in the heavily subsidized world of mass transit.

Nevertheless, he expresses confidence that a way can be found.

"We have completed important transportation projects before in our past, and we are still a great state and can still do these things," he said.

Ehrlich said O'Malley's mode selection process was "biased in favor of high-cost, neighborhood-killing light rail." In the case of the Red Line, he said, the O'Malley plan is a "boondoggle driven by a handful of developers" that would actually harm east-west mobility. Ehrlich said he would "restart the process" and work toward a consensus among the "realistic alternatives."

One issue on which the two candidates' public statements are not far apart is the gasoline tax. Despite continued pressure from the GBC, the Board of Trade and some General Assembly Democrats, neither says he is prepared to raise the 23.5-cent-a-gallon levy, which has remained unchanged since the early 1990s.

Ehrlich has all but ruled out any increase during the next four years.

"We faced that issue in my first term, and I concluded the gas tax should not be increased," said. "I haven't changed my mind."

O'Malley said he continues to support a proposal — rejected by the legislature in 2007 — to index the current gasoline tax to inflation. Such a move could shield the state from revenue losses if the price of gasoline spikes as it did in 2008, cutting into travel miles.

But the governor said he's not planning to propose any increase in the basic rate.



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"The broader public doesn't share the GBC or Board of Trade's view," he said.

michael.dresser@baltsun.com



Transportation Issues



Red/Purple lines: O'Malley proposes light rail lines in both Baltimore and the Washington suburbs. Ehrlich says he'd scrap them but would consider rapid bus service.

Transportation Trust Fund: Ehrlich wants a sales tax rollback that could cost the fund up to $48 million a year. O'Malley opposes that idea.

Local highway funds: Ehrlich promises to restore at least one-quarter of the more than $300 million O'Malley diverted to balance the budget. O'Malley says he wants to restore that as soon as possible, but won't pledge a specific figure.

MARC: Ehrlich faults O'Malley's handling of MARC and suggests he would spend more on it. O'Malley points out he's nearly doubled MARC funds since taking office.

Gas tax: O'Malley sees no need for an increased rate but likes the idea indexing it to inflation. Ehrlich rejects any increase.

^^

Wow, let's hope anti-rail nut Ehrlich loses big time. He was an unpopular governor before.

I am a one-issue voter and for me it's the light rail. I want it. So you know how I will be voting.

Does anyone know why Metro has never been converted to a zone-based fare system instead of just distance? The biggest reason is the obvious lack of unlimited zone passes, similar to Travelcards in London. I made a small diagram that divided the system into six zones ($1.95-$4.95 regular fare in $.40 increments) based on the distance from Metro Center for the Red, Blue, and Orange Lines and Gallery Place for the Green and Yellow Lines and it seems like it could work.

Does anyone know why Metro has never been converted to a zone-based fare system instead of just distance? The biggest reason is the obvious lack of unlimited zone passes, similar to Travelcards in London. I made a small diagram that divided the system into six zones ($1.95-$4.95 regular fare in $.40 increments) based on the distance from Metro Center for the Red, Blue, and Orange Lines and Gallery Place for the Green and Yellow Lines and it seems like it could work.

Distance-based fares work well with RFID cards in Japan in all major cities there. Using the SUICA card in Tokyo or the ICOCA card in Osaka was fine for me. You can still get commuter passes for these distances too.

It would be interesting if this ever came true , although i do believe the bulk of it will.

http://images.greatergreaterwashington.org/images/200806/transitfuturelarge.png

I wonder why they don't have the yellow light rail line connecting to the Greenbelt station? It's closer, and since the yellow line already stops at BWI, it could replace the B30 bus service that runs from BWI and Greenbelt.

And as far as the WMATA and MTA ever combining, the new Charm Card which works like the SmarTrip card in DC, is operated by WMATA. It works on both cities systems and vice versa. Since I already have a SmarTrip card, I don't need a Charm Card.

Baby steps, I guess.

Here's a cool regional transit map for Baltimore.

http://www.btco.net/Maps/BALTREGIONALSCHEM.pdf

So O'Malley won. This is good news for the Red Line in Baltimore and the Purple Line in suburban DC. Hopefully the ball will get rolling soon!

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/53/192900288_bc06fcd7d9_o.png (http://www.flickr.com/photos/rllayman/192900288/)
Proposed map of a Washington-Baltimore regional rail system (http://www.flickr.com/photos/rllayman/192900288/) by rllayman (http://www.flickr.com/people/rllayman/), on Flickr

I think the Severn line , should extension of the Baltimore Light Rail system in the format of a Tram train and the Bowie line should be a BRT.

By Ann Marimow - Washington Post - 2 February 2011

For the third time in as many days, Gov. Martin O'Malley used his proximity to Washington and new position as chairman of the Democratic Governors Association to take his message to a national stage.

Speaking to House Democratic leaders on Capitol Hill on Wednesday, O'Malley pressed the importance of investing in public schools, job creation and infrastructure. Even in tough economic times, O'Malley said he was moving ahead, for instance, with plans to seek highly competitive federal money to build a light-rail Purple Line between Bethesda and New Carrollton and a light-rail Red Line in Baltimore.

"Some people argue we can't afford both the Red and Purple lines. If we don't, O'Malley said, "We're not going to be ready and we're going to be left behind."

Maryland's governor was invited to speak to the Democratic Steering and Policy Committee by House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.), a Baltimore native who also had O'Malley as her guest at the State of the Union address last week.

O'Malley received a warm reception from fellow Democrats -- including Maryland's Donna F. Edwards and C.A. Dutch Ruppersberger -- who noted the governor's double-digit reelection victory in November. He spent about 40 minutes answering what Ruppersberger joked were some "softball" questions and touted the expansion of tax credits for biotech companies and hiring credits to encourage job creation.

O'Malley's testimony closely followed -- sometimes line-for-line -- his remarks Tuesday at the National Press Club during an event hosted by Governing Magazine. That message also appeared in an op-ed O'Malley penned in Politico on Wednesday. The governor said his State of the State speech Thursday would sound similar themes about the need to make "tough choices" on issues such as the state's pension system.

O'Malley's appearance on Capitol Hill capped off three days of visits to Washington. On Monday, the governor met privately with Senate Majority Leader Harry M. Reid (D-Nev.) to discuss how Democratic governors can do more to work with Democrats on the Hill to help push their message and President Obama's agenda.

LaHood says high-speed train plan won't be derailed

O'Malley among governors seeking funds, secretary says

February 09, 2011|By Michael Dresser, The Baltimore Sun

WASHINGTON — — At a time when several newly elected Republican governors are turning their backs on President Barack Obama's ambitious plans to build a high-speed rail system, Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood said the administration would press forward in a patchwork fashion if necessary — drawing on the support of other chief executives such as Gov. Martin O'Malley.

During a wide-ranging briefing Wednesday, Obama's transportation chief said he had spoken to O'Malley this week about the prospects for further federal spending on several big-ticket projects in Maryland, including the century-old Amtrak tunnel in Baltimore that is an impediment to high-speed rail operations in the Northeast Corridor.

"There's a high level of interest from him in high-speed rail," LaHood said.

Erin Henson, a spokeswoman for the Maryland Department of Transportation, confirmed that O'Malley had talked with LaHood and urged continued funding for the replacement of the Amtrak tunnel as well as a proposed rail-truck freight facility serving the port of Baltimore and two transit projects — the proposed east-west light rail Red Line in the city and the Purple Line in suburban Washington.

The secretary's briefing came a day after Vice President Joe Biden outlined the Obama administration's plan to spend $53 billion over six years to push forward with a 25-year vision of connecting 80 percent of the nation's population with high-speed rail networks.

The Democratic administration made the announcement in the face of increasing opposition to Obama's rail plans in the wake of Republican gains in statehouses and in Congress in the November elections. Since the election, new GOP governors in Wisconsin and Ohio have refused federal funding of proposed rail projects in their states.

In some cases, the withdrawal of one state's support has affected its neighbors' plans. For instance, Wisconsin's new governor has dropped the state's support for the middle link of a proposed high-speed rail line between Minneapolis-St. Paul and Chicago despite continuing support from Democratic governors in Minnesota and Illinois.

On Wednesday, LaHood said that doesn't necessarily mean that Minnesota and others in a similar position are out of luck. He said he expects a high-speed rail system will eventually be built in a manner that might at first look piecemeal, much as the Interstate Highway System was built. The former Illinois congressman, a Republican, said an early leg was criticized initially because it did little more than connect Peoria and Bloomington. The leg was later linked to Chicago and the rest of the nation, he said.

One of the prime candidates for high-speed rail development under the Obama plan has been the Northeast Corridor between Boston and Washington. The Obama administration has allocated large sums for corridor-related projects, such as planning an Amtrak project in Baltimore, but has been criticized by some Republicans who contend that the Amtrak line has been given short shrift as the Transportation Department has promoted new passenger rail projects in other regions.

LaHood denied that the administration was ignoring the Northeast Corridor and proclaimed support for Amtrak that was all but absent under President George W. Bush.

"We have a tremendous partnership with Amtrak. On my watch we have never turned a blind eye toward Amtrak," LaHood said.

But LaHood said that when governors such as Wisconsin's Scott Walker and Ohio's John R. Kasich have refused federal funds, the money has been redirected into such states as California, Florida and Illinois rather than the Northeast Corridor.

Amtrak, which owns most of the Northeast Corridor's rail infrastructure, faces a potentially enormous investment in order to enable its trains to run at the speeds for which they are designed if the tracks were in better repair. One of the slowest spots is the B&P Tunnel south of Baltimore's Pennsylvania Station, which Maryland wants to replace. The state received $60 million in stimulus money to plan the project, and Henson said the governor was lobbying LaHood for further support.

LaHood touted changes the Obama administration has made to streamline the Federal Transit Administration's New Starts process — to which Maryland is looking for 50 percent financing of three projects — the proposed Red and Purple lines and another transit line in northern Montgomery County.

"It doesn't take the 12 years anymore," LaHood said. "We can get a new start going pretty quickly."

LaHood urged Congress to pass a new, six-year federal transportation spending authorization bill but sidestepped the thorny issue of how to pay for it.

The secretary reaffirmed Obama's opposition to an increase in the federal gas tax, but turned aside questions about alternatives the administration would support.

"We're going to work with Congress to find the revenue," he said.

michael.dresser@baltsun.com

MARC needs to be electrified, especially the Brunswick Line to at least Germantown so as to be able to run with faster trains at lower headways. If anything, that'll relieve pressure on the Red Line by creating essentially an express service that connects Rockville with Silver Spring and a faster trip to Union Station.

If MARC extends all the way to Hagerstown wouldnt it be over 100 miles from DC? Far unreasonable distance for daily commute no matter how fast the train is, unless its a HSR train which is even stupid to suggest.

MARC already operates a train to Martinsburg, WV so it's not that unreasonable, plus alot of people live in Western Maryland/West Virginia and commute in because of the high cost of housing in that area.

It's not more different than say the Metro North line to New Haven, CT.

If MARC extends all the way to Hagerstown wouldnt it be over 100 miles from DC? Far unreasonable distance for daily commute no matter how fast the train is, unless its a HSR train which is even stupid to suggest.

The Port Jervis , Harlem and Hudson lines are 93-96 miles long and used by 120,000 daily....people will commute far if its cheap , semi fast and comfortable and if there are cheaper areas to live.

If MARC extends all the way to Hagerstown wouldnt it be over 100 miles from DC? Far unreasonable distance for daily commute no matter how fast the train is, unless its a HSR train which is even stupid to suggest.

People in the UK commute from all over the country to London on a daily basis to avoid living there.

My old town, Northampton, has a very busy rail service to London and it is absolutely packed during peak period (despite the peak period surcharge on the railway). Even further afield, people commute from Birmingham quite happily to London too. If a service is convenient enough then people will use it.

If MARC extends all the way to Hagerstown wouldnt it be over 100 miles from DC? Far unreasonable distance for daily commute no matter how fast the train is, unless its a HSR train which is even stupid to suggest.

And to throw the little cherry on top: Hagerstown is ~70 miles, not over 100

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^^
The difference between the 'European' and 'American' Van Hools is quite significant.

And to throw the little cherry on top: Hagerstown is ~70 miles, not over 100

From where? Martinsburg? Which is 90 miles from Union Station.

The Port Jervis , Harlem and Hudson lines are 93-96 miles long and used by 120,000 daily....people will commute far if its cheap , semi fast and comfortable and if there are cheaper areas to live.
Harlem line and Hudson lines in reality isnt more than 30, 40 miles. A lot of trains terminate at last stop before the electrification ends. The ridership north of the electrification is limited.

Some recent streetcar construction shots.....

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_x0_WRuZez8E/TJfV8kEFvWI/AAAAAAAABEo/Ymm4WDR-gCs/s1600/IMG_0732.JPG

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_x0_WRuZez8E/TJjWQqmERaI/AAAAAAAABIY/8GMjVaxqVvY/s1600/IMG_0796.JPG

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_x0_WRuZez8E/TJjVVeb_ONI/AAAAAAAABII/K4l-xDp1Fns/s1600/IMG_0787.JPG

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_x0_WRuZez8E/TJgfYPB-KUI/AAAAAAAABGw/bmfNx44tGMs/s1600/IMG_0755.JPG

^^ Hmm, a couple of those pictures show the problems that will be associated with that line. Correct me if I am wrong, but the tram won't be segregated from the traffic?

^^ Hmm, a couple of those pictures show the problems that will be associated with that line. Correct me if I am wrong, but the tram won't be segregated from the traffic?

Streetcars / Trollies run with Traffic , Light Rail is the one that is separate form Traffic.

I am guessing that the photos show the future H Street streetcar line. The streetcar tracks are being installed along H Street as part of a road reconstruction project. My understanding is that there are some major issues regarding the design of the streetcar system that remain unresolved. In particular, there is a law prohibiting overhead wires in much of the District of Columbia. Either the law will have to be changed, or some other means will need to be found to power the streetcars. The Anacostia line is likely to be the first streetcar line in service. The Anacostia line is in an area not subject to the prohibition on overhead wires.

^^ Hmm, a couple of those pictures show the problems that will be associated with that line. Correct me if I am wrong, but the tram won't be segregated from the traffic?

Driving in Washington, DC is already a nightmare. There is so little parking available that delivery trucks typically just stop in the traffic lanes. The added impediment to traffic created by the streetcars likely won't make things noticeably worse. Just don't expect the service to be fast.

It seems that the plan is to change the laws to allow overhead wires:

http://washingtonexaminer.com/local/transportation/dc-council-approves-wires-h-street-trolleys

D.C. Council approves wires for H Street trolleys

By: Kytja Weir 06/30/10 3:00 AM
Reporter

The plans for streetcars running along H Street received a jolt of momentum Tuesday when the D.C. Council approved emergency legislation to allow overhead wires as a power source.

The initial vote, which still requires the approval of permanent legislation on July 13, signals a key leap over the long unresolved hurdle of how the trolleys will run.

It makes legal the overhead lines on H Street, according to D.C. officials, which had been banned under 120-plus-year-old federal laws. More urgently, it makes the city more competitive for a $25 million federal grant, which is expected to be announced in the next few weeks.

It doesn't mean overhead wires everywhere in the city's 37-mile streetcar plan. "We're not trying to put wires on the National Mall or by Abraham Lincoln," said Charles Allen, the chief of staff of Ward 6 Councilman Tommy Wells, who pushed the bill.

The city is planning to build a $1.5 billion network of eight streetcar lines around the city by 2020, providing transit links in spots lacking Metrorail access. The first two lines -- H Street/Benning Road in Northeast and Martin Luther King Boulevard in Anacostia -- are scheduled to begin ferrying riders by spring 2012.

But even as the H Street line is being built, the city has grappled with whether it has the authority to power the streetcars with overhead wires.

Federal laws from 1888 and 1889 have restricted such overhead wires in many areas of the city, clearing the views of key monuments. The D.C. bill repeals those laws and reinstates them locally -- with the caveat that the lines be allowed on H Street, Allen said. The law also says the city must look into replacing those wires with alternative technology if it becomes available and go through a public process to get overhead wires for the other lines.

The city consulted with several legal experts and interpreted that the city had the "legislative and legal authority" to make the changes, Allen said.

But it may not be a done deal. The National Capital Planning Commission, which is the guardian of the federal laws, urged the council in a written statement Tuesday evening to "expand its wireless zone to other important areas of the city."

Chairman L. Preston Bryant said the NCPC "remains committed to working toward a solution that is mutually agreeable with the city."

mailto:kweir@washingtonexaminer.com ">kweir@washingtonexaminer.com

Driving in Washington, DC is already a nightmare. There is so little parking available that delivery trucks typically just stop in the traffic lanes. The added impediment to traffic created by the streetcars likely won't make things noticeably worse. Just don't expect the service to be fast.

Then why not just put in a rapid bus transit? Tram seems like a huge waste of money.

Streetcars / Trollies run with Traffic , Light Rail is the one that is separate form Traffic.

Definitions and terms are different in each country. There are numerous places around the world where trams are also segregated (and the term Streetcar isn't seen outside North America). Sorry for my confusion.

Then why not just put in a rapid bus transit? Tram seems like a huge waste of money.


The theory is that a rail vehicle can attract "choice riders" (people who own cars), whereas a bus can't. I have to admit that I am dubious that a streetcar stuck in traffic will be any more attractive than a bus stuck in traffic. At least the buses can change lanes to get around double-parked delivery trucks. The decision to build the streetcar network has already been made, so we will see how it works in a few years.

^^ Right! If it were segregated from car traffic it would be right, but this ... is just stupid.

The theory is that a rail vehicle can attract "choice riders" (people who own cars), whereas a bus can't. I have to admit that I am dubious that a streetcar stuck in traffic will be any more attractive than a bus stuck in traffic. At least the buses can change lanes to get around double-parked delivery trucks. The decision to build the streetcar network has already been made, so we will see how it works in a few years.

At least one of the streetcar routes will have its own designated lanes (K Street). K Street is wider than most DC east-west streets.

Personally, I'd rather have more Metrorail lines in lieu of the streetcars, but as America can't seem to build a new 15 km subway line for less than 500 billion dollars and in a time frame less than 50 years nowadays (OK, this is an exaggeration, but you get the idea) this seems to be a good "Second Prize" for the District of Columbia.

As far as buses versus streetcars, studies have borne out that Americans are much more likely to utilize streetcars than buses and streetcars are better at promoting economic growth (The bus fanatic Australian guy at HumanTransit.org notwithstanding). In America anyway, buses have various stigma associated with them, and have the perception of being impermanent and subject to overnight rerouting due to funding cuts or political whims. With a streetcar, you know the tracks are there to stay.

The streets seem wide enough to allow separation between trams and cars.

They probably should have followed Toronto's example and put the tracks in the middle of H street. I can foresee alot of problems with their current setup.

At least one of the streetcar routes will have its own designated lanes (K Street). K Street is wider than most DC east-west streets.

Personally, I'd rather have more Metrorail lines in lieu of the streetcars, but as America can't seem to build a new 15 km subway line for less than 500 billion dollars and in a time frame less than 50 years nowadays (OK, this is an exaggeration, but you get the idea) this seems to be a good "Second Prize" for the District of Columbia.

As far as buses versus streetcars, studies have borne out that Americans are much more likely to utilize streetcars than buses and streetcars are better at promoting economic growth (The bus fanatic Australian guy at HumanTransit.org notwithstanding). In America anyway, buses have various stigma associated with them, and have the perception of being impermanent and subject to overnight rerouting due to funding cuts or political whims. With a streetcar, you know the tracks are there to stay.

I agree regarding rather having Metrorail. The streetcar plan represents the realization that money will never be available to add Metrorail lines in Anacostia, Georgetown, and other under-served areas of the city.

Streetcars can probably attract more passengers per route-mile than buses, but not more passengers per dollar in costs to the transportation agency. Washington, DC can only afford to build streetcar lines on a few routes. Buses will continue to be an important part of the transportation network.

They should have just removed the lines of parallel parks cars and used that space to create a tram only lane and a bike lane (about the same width as a normal car lane).

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They should have just removed the lines of parallel parks cars and used that space to create a tram only lane and a bike lane (about the same width as a normal car lane).

No, because businesses on the street will lose significant customers. This has been demonstrated repeatedly in other cities.

Streetcars work just fine in Philadelphia, San Francisco, New Orleans, Denver, Portland, Seattle, and elsewhere, and they'll work just as well in DC.

They probably should have followed Toronto's example and put the tracks in the middle of H street. I can foresee alot of problems with their current setup.
Centre-lane running's popular in Toronto because most of its roads are narrow, e.g., you come across a six-laner no less than say every couple or three miles, a four-laner every single or couple of miles. Toronto trams get stuck behind left- and right-turning traffic so often that it takes several green lights (series of) for the tram to finally proceed across a single intersection. Even with their six-lane St-Clair-Ave-W tram-equipped line, trams often get stuck behind left-turning traffic, which now from seeing those photos that seemed to trouble you (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p=75436709#post75436709) makes me nod approval at H Street's(?) traffic lanes chosen for tram passage.

Also, the tram lane pictured above (http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_x0_WRuZez8E/TJgfYPB-KUI/AAAAAAAABGw/bmfNx44tGMs/s1600/IMG_0755.JPG) is closer to the kerb than your preferred centre lane, so I'd be far more interested at learning about the District's plans down there at mitigating private vehicles colliding with would-be / have-been passengers, frankly, because Toronto trams are --uhm-- poorly stickered as far as indicating to nearby drivers the compulsory stop-for-tram provision in the provincial highway code... ...although (moreover!) why not just go for accordion trolleybusses, you know, the type with multiple! accordions. (Toronto collisions have been awful: Abundance of stress/shock; trams --if at all possible!-- detoured for blocks or miles on end during intensive police investigation; ensuing traffic jams; etc.)

Recent H streetcar construction photos...

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6054/5890023204_64cb3b163a_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/beyonddc/5890023204/)
H Street streetcar station (http://www.flickr.com/photos/beyonddc/5890023204/) by BeyondDC (http://www.flickr.com/people/beyonddc/), on Flickr

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6051/5890023688_328b306fe8_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/beyonddc/5890023688/)
H Street streetcar station (http://www.flickr.com/photos/beyonddc/5890023688/) by BeyondDC (http://www.flickr.com/people/beyonddc/), on Flickr

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5072/5889456477_43b4ba3bf7_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/beyonddc/5889456477/)
H Street streetcar station (http://www.flickr.com/photos/beyonddc/5889456477/) by BeyondDC (http://www.flickr.com/people/beyonddc/), on Flickr

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6048/5890025070_b45fa7766e_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/beyonddc/5890025070/)
H Street streetcar tracks (http://www.flickr.com/photos/beyonddc/5890025070/) by BeyondDC (http://www.flickr.com/people/beyonddc/), on Flickr

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6028/5889457353_73b127d274_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/beyonddc/5889457353/)
H Street streetcar station (http://www.flickr.com/photos/beyonddc/5889457353/) by BeyondDC (http://www.flickr.com/people/beyonddc/), on Flickr

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6041/5890026336_f36946454e_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/beyonddc/5890026336/)
H Street streetcar station (http://www.flickr.com/photos/beyonddc/5890026336/) by BeyondDC (http://www.flickr.com/people/beyonddc/), on Flickr

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6032/5889458507_e1edfbd1eb_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/beyonddc/5889458507/)
H Street streetcar station (http://www.flickr.com/photos/beyonddc/5889458507/) by BeyondDC (http://www.flickr.com/people/beyonddc/), on Flickr

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6056/5890027096_35b9dc0259_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/beyonddc/5890027096/)
H Street streetcar station (http://www.flickr.com/photos/beyonddc/5890027096/) by BeyondDC (http://www.flickr.com/people/beyonddc/), on Flickr

^^What lines are under construction at the moment?

Nice pics Nexis...hopefully the street cars turn out to be a success. Just out of curiosity, do you know of any other recent street car lines being developed around the nation...not proposals, but actual lines being built? Baltimore had plans for a streetcar line going up Charles Street but it seems to be dead at the present moment.

Red Line gets federal go-ahead for next phase
East-west rail line project for city clears a crucial hurdle

June 27, 2011|By Michael Dresser, The Baltimore Sun
The Maryland Transit Administration's proposed Red Line in Baltimore has received U.S. approval to move to the next phase of development, a strong indication that the east-west light rail line will eventually qualify for federal funding.

Gov. Martin O'Malley plans to announce Tuesday that the Federal Transit Administration has given the state the green light to move into what is known as preliminary engineering, or PE — a phase that would take the project beyond the conceptual stage and into specific planning.

The approval would start a roughly two-year planning process for the 141/2-mile line fromWoodlawn to Bayview — a project that the federal agency estimated would cost a total of $2.2 billion with inflation. The state previously described the Red Line as a $1.8 billion project in 2010 dollars.

The decision does not mean the federal government has agreed to pay for the project's construction. Henry Kay, the MTA's deputy administrator for planning, said that decision would be made later. But he said the federal action means the Red Line has survived a process that weeds out many projects.

"It's a big deal," Kay said. "PE approval really represents a major milestone."

But opponents of the project questioned the importance of the federal action.

"The reality of this is that there's no money," said Benjamin Rosenberg, a resident of Canton. "The likelihood of the funding in the next couple years is zero."

Kay said the PE process will cost about $65 million. He said that many of the engineering contracts have been awarded and that work has been awaiting federal approval. He said the state would likely pay most of the upfront costs but would be eligible for federal reimbursement when money becomes available.

While the Red Line has the enthusiastic support of the O'Malley administration, Mayor Stephanie Rawlings-Blake and most city elected officials, it faces opposition from some residents of neighborhoods in its path — especially those in Canton and West Baltimore.

Plans for the Red Line call for the tracks to run in one long tunnel under downtown and Fells Point and in one shorter tunnel under Cooks Lane in West Baltimore. The rest of the route would run above ground, including sections on Boston Street and Edmondson Avenue.

Advocates contend the Red Line is needed to relieve traffic congestion and to provide an attractive transit alternative to reach some of the city's major employment centers, including the Inner Harbor, Harbor East, the University of Maryland professional schools and the Johns Hopkins Bayview Medical Center.

"Baltimore has been underserved by public transit," said Sen. Benjamin L. Cardin. "We are now closer to having a truly integrated, regional transit system that will help transform our city and our region, adding a convenient, affordable east-west alternative to the ever-increasing gridlock."

But opponents maintain that a light rail line would detract from the ambience of the neighborhoods it runs through and would fail to attract the ridership officials have projected.

In fact, while they gave the Red Line the OK to move to the next step, federal officials may have also given opponents ammunition by lowering the estimates of daily ridership from 60,000 to 57,000 and hanging a higher price tag on the project.

Kay said it's not unusual for ridership estimates to fluctuate during the planning of a transit line. And he noted that the agency approved the move to the next step despite the lower ridership figures.

"When they signed off on 57,000 they agreed we're making reasonable assumptions," he said.

The new, $2.2 billion figure represents a difference in the way the federal agency computes costs and the way the state does, Kay said.

"It's not because the price has gone up or we've changed the scope" of the project, he said.

Nevertheless, the federal estimate would also raise the amount of money the state would have to come up with to pay its likely 50 percent share of the project.

Meanwhile, the state is also seeking federal approval for a similarly priced light rail project called the Purple Line in Montgomery and Prince George's counties.

Kay said a decision on whether the Purple Line can move to the next stage is likely to come later this summer.

The cost of the two transit lines became an issue in last year's gubernatorial campaign when Republican Robert L. Ehrlich Jr. said he would scrap plans for light rail on the two lines, saying the state could not afford them. But O'Malley insists the projects are needed to relieve congestion and improve air quality in the two metropolitan areas.

Canton resident Rosenberg said he's confident that opponents will ultimately block the project when it comes time to come up with the money for construction.

"The time really is on our side and not on the side of the people who have been promoting this," he said. "Until somebody finds $2 billion, obviously this thing's not going to be built."

Construction of a new transit line with federal assistance is a laborious, drawn-out process involving minute examination of a local agency's plans, costs, projected revenues and ridership assumptions. Approvals can take many years.

The Red Line planning process was in the works for several years before public hearings on alternatives were held in 2008. In 2009, O'Malley made the final decision to build a light rail line instead of a rapid-bus alternative. Proposals for more extensive tunneling were scrapped because the costs would have exceeded federal limits.

According to the MTA, if the project clears the remaining hurdles and federal and state funding is available, it would take until about 2020 to complete the Red Line.

Kay said the PE process would bring the planning to the point where it is about 60 percent complete and ready to move into the final design phase. By the time preliminary engineering is done, such things as the design of the stations and the appearance of the train cars should be known, he said.

The federal approval comes as work is progressing on such matters as design of the 20 proposed stations on the Red Line. The MTA has 17 Station Area Advisory Committees, made up of an estimated 250 volunteers, working on things such as platform location and pedestrian access.

Engineers under contract with the state have also been contacting homeowners in some of the neighborhoods along the path of the Red Line, asking for access to their basements to determine whether tunneling could cause any problems.

Kay said the MTA needs to know how deep the basements go in some older neighborhoods such as Fells Point and Canton, where many homes don't have construction plans on file with the city. He said that such inspections are voluntary and that the MTA does not need access to every home.

The MTA does not expect tunneling to have an impact on existing buildings, Kay said. He said the average tunnel depth would be 40 to 50 feet below ground. That is comparable to the depth of the Metro tunnel under neighborhoods such as Upton and Bolton Hill, he added.

Kay said that in his many years at the MTA, he has never heard complaints about noise or vibrations caused by the subway.

michael.dresser@baltsun.com

http://greatergreaterwashington.org/post/11103/whats-the-status-of-our-major-transit-projects/

by Dan Malouff • June 29, 2011 10:17 am

With yesterday's news that the Baltimore Red Line is being advanced to Preliminary Engineering, it seems a good time to check up on the various rail and BRT projects in the region and report on their status.


Proposed Baltimore Red Line subway station. Image from MTA.
Here are the 15 major rail and BRT projects in our region.

Norfolk "The Tide" light rail (http://www.ridethetide.com/)

Status: Construction
Construction is largely complete. Trains and tracks are in testing now.
Anticipated completion: August 19, 2011



H Street streetcar (http://www.dcstreetcar.com/h-street--benning-road-line-segment.html)

Status: Construction
Streetcar running from Union Station to the Anacostia River via H Street. Under construction now.
Anticipated completion: 2012


Silver Line Phase I (http://www.dullesmetro.com/)

Status: Construction
Metrorail extension from East Falls Church to Reston via Tysons Corner. Under construction now.
Anticipated completion: 2013



Crystal City/Potomac Yard busway (http://www.ccpytransit.com/)

Status: Design
Exclusive busway from Crystal City Metro to Braddock Road Metro. Final design underway now. Some segments have already been constructed by private developers.
Anticipated completion: 2013


Baltimore Red Line (http://www.baltimoreredline.com/)

Status: Design
Light rail line running east-west through Baltimore. Recently advanced to Preliminary Engineering from Concept.
Anticipated completion: 2016


Silver Line Phase II (http://www.dullesmetro.com/phase_2_updates/index.cfm)

Status: Design
Metrorail extension from Reston to Loudoun County via Dulles Airport. Preliminary Engineering currently underway.
Anticipated completion: 2017


K Street Transitway (http://kstreetreconstruction.com/)

Status: Design
Exclusive transit lanes running east-west on K Street from Washington Circle to Mount Vernon Square. Environmental work completed in 2009, now awaiting funding before moving forward.
Anticipated completion: Not published


Anacostia streetcar (http://www.dcstreetcar.com/anacostia-initial-line-segment-phase-2.html)

Status: Construction/Concept
Streetcar from South Capitol Street to 11th Street bridge via Ancostia Metro. Construction of a short segment near South Capitol Street is mostly complete. The majority of the line is undergoing an alternatives analysis/environmental review that will be completed late in 2011.
Anticipated completion: Not published


Benning Road streetcar (http://www.dcstreetcar.com/benning-road-extension.html)

Status: Concept
Extension of the H Street Streetcar east across Anacostia River to Benning Road Metro. Alternatives analysis & environmental review to begin summer 2011.
Anticipated completion: 2015


Columbia Pike streetcar (http://www.piketransit.com/)

Status: Concept
Streetcar from Pentagon City to Bailey's Crossroads via Columbia Pike. Environmental planning underway now.
Anticipated completion: 2016


Potomac Yard Metro station (http://www.potomacyardmetro.com/)

Status: Concept
Infill Metro station in Alexandria. Environmental planning underway now.
Anticipated completion: 2016


K Street streetcar (http://www.dcstreetcar.com/union-station-to-washington-circle-line-segment.html)

Status: Concept
Extension of the H Street Streetcar west to Washington Circle through downtown Washington, potentially via the K Street Transitway. Alternatives analysis & environmental review to begin summer 2011.
Anticipated completion: 2018


Crystal City/Potomac Yard streetcar

Status: Concept
Potential conversion of CCPY busway to streetcar. Environmental planning underway.
Anticipated completion: Not published


Maryland Purple Line (http://www.purplelinemd.com/)

Status: Concept
Light rail line running east-west through Maryland suburbs of DC. Concept stage largely complete. Expected to move to Preliminary Engineering in summer or autumn 2011.
Anticipated completion: 2020


Corridor Cities Transitway (http://www.cctmaryland.com/)

Status: Concept
Light rail or BRT line running north from Shady Grove Metro. Concept stage nearing completion. Mode will be determined this year. Expected to move to Preliminary Engineering in late 2011 or 2012.
Anticipated completion: 2020


DC streetcar other segments (http://www.dcstreetcar.com/system-concept-phase-3.html)

Status: Pre-concept
The rest of DC's proposed 37 mile streetcar system. Planning has not yet begun.
Anticipated completion: Not published
The concept phase is early planning, including alternatives analysis and environmental clearance. Design is the engineering phase, including Preliminary Engineering (PE). For projects in this phase, conceptual details have been finalized and detailed construction plans are being prepared.

Is that an official plan, of just a fantasy?

It is just a fantasy.

Final report downgrades Montgomery "BRT"
Last week, the Montgomery County DOT released its final study (http://www.montgomerycountymd.gov/content/dot/MCBRTStudyfinalreport110728.pdf) on a future county-wide BRT system. The system has the potential to improve transit options for many county residents. But four months after the study's draft executive summary was released, it's clear that expectations have already been lowered and that many questions remain.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4037/4538078965_ea71dc58d7_m.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/san-joaquin-rtd/4538078965/)
San Joaquin RTD BRT Stop (http://www.flickr.com/photos/san-joaquin-rtd/4538078965/) by San Joaquin RTD (http://www.flickr.com/people/san-joaquin-rtd/), on Flickr

As Dan Reed wrote when the summary draft was published, the plan identifed 16 potential routes, covering 150 miles and just as many stations. The study's model predicted significant time savings over current transit options on each of the routes and in some cases even travel time savings over driving.

Very little has changed between the study's draft summary (http://greatergreaterwashington.org/post/10549/brt-proposal-could-get-montgomery-on-the-bus/) and the now-finished product, but what has changed is definitely worth noting. Revisions to the study team's forecasting model resulted in significant reductions in predicted ridership numbers.

The range of expected daily boardings for the whole network has been revised to 165,600-207,000, down some 20% from the originally estimated 213,100-266,400 boardings. This drop in predicted ridership ripples throughout the report, resulting in lengthened recommended headways, increased total operating and maintenance costs, and reduced farebox recovery ratios.

These revisions may not be all bad given the large number of transit projects that have suffered from inflated ridership estimates and too-conservative operating cost projections.

On the other hand, lower predicted ridership and higher costs may give notoriously road-focused MCDOT reason to whittle away at the plan as it moves ever so slowly to fruition. After all, BRT's broad spectrum of implementation levels and scalability can be both a blessing and a curse.

What's also disappointing about the plan is its focus on traditional travel patterns of the county today. The model even assumed "unconstrained availability of parking" at three potential park-and-ride stations, underscoring the fact that this study is not really a change of approach for Montgomery County's transit planning. Of the 16 potential routes, only 3 of them are true cross-county routes, while the rest move primarily north to south. 8 of the routes end at Metro stations.

The emphasis on access to Metro stations and importance of parking availability in the ridership models indicates a continued emphasis on commuter trips that start in a car, rather than in a transit-oriented development that supports all-hours trips that don't require a car at all.

Most of all, though, the plan doesn't come close to proposing true Bus Rapid Transit.

The system would use articulated, 60-foot, hybrid low floor "BRT Vehicles" with automatic vehicle locators and other technology. Interestingly these "BRT Vehicles" sound remarkably like the newest 60-foot hybrid buses with WMATA operates on its heaviest routes like the X2 and 71.

Only "major stations serving at least 500 daily boardings by the year 2040," would get infrastructure upgrades beyond a typical bus stop, and even then, "stations" will primarily consist of an "extended shelter, benches," and some additional aesthetic treatments.

First, for a well-designed BRT route, these treatments should be afforded to every stop. Consistent station treatment unifies a rapid transit system's "premium transit service" feel. What if some metro stations only had 200 foot platforms? Secondly, a true rapid transit service should not be serving any stops that don't attract 500 people per day anyway. If the density for this transit demand doesn't exist, those stops should be omitted from the BRT line to begin with.

Finally, the infrastructure choices may prove problematic. Where busways are recommended, which is only about two-thirds of the route length, the study proposes "guided busways" for a large portion of the infrastructure. The study doesn't offer more specific technology recommendations, but guided busways (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guided_bus) are relatively uncommon around the world, having never proved particularly beneficial for the additional investment they require.

Human Transit's Jarret Walker wrote last week (http://www.humantransit.org/2011/08/cambridge-uk-worlds-longest-guided-busway-opens.html) upon the opening of the world's longest guided busway in Cambridgeshire, England:

"If this busway doesn't turn up significant benefits in customer experience, it will probably be the last, or at least the last to be done with guide-wheels. Adelaide's pioneering O-Bahn is now 25 years old, so one hopes the state of the art has moved on."
Guided busways have even been problematic in many cities. After a few years of operation, Edinburgh determined to tear out its busway and replace it with light rail. In Crawley, England, south of London, the Fastway system installed one-way guided busways in several places where previously had been poorly enforced bus lanes.
The result: only the two bus routes that were officially part of the Fastway system and had guidewheels could use the guideways, leaving the other bus lines to fend for themselves in mixed traffic. Even the Fastway routes have been sometimes stymied by this problem on the occasion that too many guided buses are out of service.

The primary benefit to guided busways is the fact that they allow designers to somewhat shrink the width of the required right of way. In other words: they give transit-skeptical planners and elected officials one more way to save precious SOV space.

Are the costs and headaches worth it? Doubtful, but we've already learned that Montgomery County will do practically anything to avoiding giving over space from cars to transit. Most of the other guided bus systems across the globe use the technology because there literally is not enough space for full-width lanes and busways in their chosen right-of-way.

Montgomery County has proposed, for much of the system, to build one-way busways that can be used by buses traveling in the peak direction, leaving buses traveling in the opposite direction to compete in mixed traffic. Does this mean that the busway will have station infrastructure on both sides of the guideway? Presumably. Bus stops or stations would also then need to be placed along the outide of the main roadway in both directions as well, further duplicating infrastructure.

This could mean that roads with one lane, reversible busways would need four stops at each station location. In the morning, the busway would need a right-side platform for southbound buses, while the sidewalk on the northbound curb would need a platform as well. In the afternoon, the busway would need a right-side platform for northbound buses (opposite the morning stop), and the sidewalk on the southbound curb would need a platform.

The logistical headache of operating bi-directional one-lane guideways, combined with the infrastructure duplication of building up to four stations in each direction along the guideways, emphasizes MCDOT's utter reluctance to actually reallocate space from single-occupancy vehicles to high-occupancy transit vehicles. This reluctance may very well land the County's nascent system among the ranks of America's countless other faux-BRTs.

http://greatergreaterwashington.org/post/11590/final-report-downgrades-montgomery-brt/

August 24, 2011 - Michael Dresser - Baltimore Sun

Group raising funds to support Red Line

A group of Baltimore residents will hold a pro-Red Line pep rally tonight in a hotbed of opposition to the proposed light rail tonight to raise money to advocate for the project.

The Red Line Now PAC will hold its event at 6 p.m. at the Field House Pub at 2400 Boston Street in Canton, where many local residents have protested plans to run trains along the surface of that street.

"This is one of the few issue-driven political action committees created by everyday Baltimore citizens, and the only one to focus on transit," said Robbyn Lewis, the organization's chairperson. "We want this project to be the best it can be."

Red Line PAC (Political Action Committee)

http://red-line-now.com/

I suggest you join and get involved if you feel strongly about this particular issue.

How come the cities' networks are pegged together into this thread?

How come the cities' networks are pegged together into this thread?

The two cities are becoming increasingly intertwined both cultrually and economically. Its only a matter of time before Washington and Baltimore are linked via mass transit. The MARC Train is a commuter rail that already links the cities and both are already connected through Amtrack's northeast corridor infrastructure.

How come the cities' networks are pegged together into this thread?

In 20 years will the current Growth rate both cities will be 1.

How come the cities' networks are pegged together into this thread?

There is the Baltimore-Washington Metropolitan Area, that is a combined statistical area (CSA) consisting of the overlapping labor market region of the cities of Baltimore, Maryland and Washington, D.C.. The region includes Central Maryland, Northern Virginia, and two counties in the Eastern Panhandle of West Virginia. The population of the entire Baltimore-Washington Metroplex as of the 2010 Census is 8,924,087.
In the United States there are this Combined Statistical Areas (CSA) that are larger than the standard Metropolitan Statistical Areas (MSA) including aditional counties and in some cases, as in this, two or more MSA could comprise a CSA.
For example The New York MSA has a population of 18,897,109 as of the 2010 census, but the New York CSA
has an estimated population of 22,232,494 as of 2009, and includes among others, some counties of Connecticut which are not included in the New York MSA.
Another Example is Los Angeles. Los Angeles MSA has a population of 12,829,232 as of the 2010 census and only includes the Los Angeles and Orange Counties. But there is the Los Angeles CSA with a population of 17,877,401 that also includes Riverside and San Bernardino Counties (that together form a separate MSA) plus Ventura County.
In this case, The Washington MSA and the Baltimore MSA comprise the Baltimore-Washington Metropolitan Area.
So, as said Liam0711,there is some mass transit that links these two cities and their suburbs as the MARC train (Maryland Rail Commuter Service)
But more important is that in the region there are various transit agencies that overlap each other. The MTA Maryland primarily serves the Baltimore area, but as a great part of Washington's suburbs are in Maryland, this agency also serves areas that are more related to Washington, for example it operates the said MARC, and is working in the Purple Line, a light rail that will link some Washington Metrorail's lines in territory of Maryland north of DC. The Washington Metropolitan Area Transit Authority (WMATA) serves DC, Virginia and Maryland with both Metrorail and Metrobus.

Is the red line in Baltimore going to be just a tram line with street crossings or with sections segregated from other traffic?

Is the red line in Baltimore going to be just a tram line with street crossings or with sections segregated from other traffic?

It will run underground through the Downtown and parts of the Western Suburbs , but otherwise it will be an above ground Tram.

It will run underground through the Downtown and parts of the Western Suburbs , but otherwise it will be an above ground Tram.
Kinda like MBTA green line?

Kinda like MBTA green line?

I think that Seattle's Link Light Rail would be a better comparison.

I think that Seattle's Link Light Rail would be a better comparison.

I hope not! It would be so expensive that it would never get built.

I could understand the cities' being linked were there direct non-stop MARC express service linking the two city centres; otherwise, I see no relevance twixt 'em :yes:

I could understand the cities' being linked were there direct non-stop MARC express service linking the two city centres; otherwise, I see no relevance twixt 'em :yes:

There growing towards each other , at a fast rate ...in 20 years they'll be merged...with population and transit.

Driving either way from one to the other wasn't the slightest bit swift for me :dunno:

I hope not! It would be so expensive that it would never get built.

What I meant by "like Seattle's Link" was that both would be a low floor modern LRT line with a lengthy underground segment in the city center and would have platforms capable of supporting 4-car trains.

Some New shots of the DC Streetcar / Tram lines...

H street line

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6029/5996089405_a9a066691a_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/greatphotographicon/5996089405/)
H Street NE (http://www.flickr.com/photos/greatphotographicon/5996089405/) by The Great Photographicon (http://www.flickr.com/people/greatphotographicon/), on Flickr

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6136/5996090271_9668d917dc_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/greatphotographicon/5996090271/)
H Street reborn (http://www.flickr.com/photos/greatphotographicon/5996090271/) by The Great Photographicon (http://www.flickr.com/people/greatphotographicon/), on Flickr

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6030/5996647490_cf6ec97d65_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/greatphotographicon/5996647490/)
Streetcar stop (http://www.flickr.com/photos/greatphotographicon/5996647490/) by The Great Photographicon (http://www.flickr.com/people/greatphotographicon/), on Flickr

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6123/5996093619_7a6a0e47c5_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/greatphotographicon/5996093619/)
Pedestrian street signs (http://www.flickr.com/photos/greatphotographicon/5996093619/) by The Great Photographicon (http://www.flickr.com/people/greatphotographicon/), on Flickr

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6026/5996649376_2b0bec1c8e_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/greatphotographicon/5996649376/)
Distinctive crosswalk (http://www.flickr.com/photos/greatphotographicon/5996649376/) by The Great Photographicon (http://www.flickr.com/people/greatphotographicon/), on Flickr

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6149/5996095335_93e07179c9_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/greatphotographicon/5996095335/)
IMG_7193 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/greatphotographicon/5996095335/) by The Great Photographicon (http://www.flickr.com/people/greatphotographicon/), on Flickr

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6012/5996096887_8e72209c29_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/greatphotographicon/5996096887/)
Decorative banner (http://www.flickr.com/photos/greatphotographicon/5996096887/) by The Great Photographicon (http://www.flickr.com/people/greatphotographicon/), on Flickr

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6131/5996097509_aeb2b5584f_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/greatphotographicon/5996097509/)
Teardrop (http://www.flickr.com/photos/greatphotographicon/5996097509/) by The Great Photographicon (http://www.flickr.com/people/greatphotographicon/), on Flickr

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6008/5996098479_27315276f0_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/greatphotographicon/5996098479/)
Curb extension (http://www.flickr.com/photos/greatphotographicon/5996098479/) by The Great Photographicon (http://www.flickr.com/people/greatphotographicon/), on Flickr

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6129/5996656330_475ded3ae4_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/greatphotographicon/5996656330/)
H Street NE (http://www.flickr.com/photos/greatphotographicon/5996656330/) by The Great Photographicon (http://www.flickr.com/people/greatphotographicon/), on Flickr

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6123/5996102411_33df33461f_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/greatphotographicon/5996102411/)
Argonaut (http://www.flickr.com/photos/greatphotographicon/5996102411/) by The Great Photographicon (http://www.flickr.com/people/greatphotographicon/), on Flickr

Anacostia streetcar

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6164/6214690269_a0cb910736_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/greatphotographicon/6214690269/)
IMG_7628 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/greatphotographicon/6214690269/) by The Great Photographicon (http://www.flickr.com/people/greatphotographicon/), on Flickr

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6036/6214703793_e3b84ace64_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/greatphotographicon/6214703793/)
IMG_7629 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/greatphotographicon/6214703793/) by The Great Photographicon (http://www.flickr.com/people/greatphotographicon/), on Flickr

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6055/6215221240_e3901594c0_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/greatphotographicon/6215221240/)
IMG_7630 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/greatphotographicon/6215221240/) by The Great Photographicon (http://www.flickr.com/people/greatphotographicon/), on Flickr

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6115/6214705357_12717c6309_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/greatphotographicon/6214705357/)
IMG_7631 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/greatphotographicon/6214705357/) by The Great Photographicon (http://www.flickr.com/people/greatphotographicon/), on Flickr

^^ Great pictures Nexis.

October 3, 2011 - Michael Dresser - Baltimore Sun

The Maryland Transit Administration ranked near the top of the nations list in ridership gains in three categories during the first six months of this year, according to the American Public Transit Association.

The national trade group for transit agencies said Baltimore posted a 10.4 percent increase in light rail ridership and a 10 percent increase on its Metro system over last year during the January-June period. That gave the light rail system the seventh-highest gain in the ranking of 27 similar systems. The Metro gain was the third-largest out of 15 heavy rail systems.

Baltimore's bus system also posted a strong gain of 7.5 percent -- putting it among the leaders in that category as well.

The associations reported that 5.2 billion trips were taken on U.S. transit systems during the six-month period, a 1.7 percent increase over the comparable period last year. Nationally, APTA said, heavy rail use increased 3.8 percent and light rail use 3.7 percent. It reported a slight increase in bus ridership.

^^ Great news for those who want the Red Line built. I'm confident that ridership projections for the line will hold up, contrary to the beliefs of those who are against the line.

The last that I heard about the H Street line is that it will be powered via overhead wires, but no wires have yet been installed. Are overhead wires still part of the plan?

Red Line to receive faster federal review

East-west rail project among 14 chosen nationwide

By Michael Dresser and John Fritze, The Baltimore Sun

9:15 p.m. EDT, October 10, 2011
WASHINGTON —— Baltimore's proposed Red Line was among 14 infrastructure projects the federal government selected Monday for expedited permitting and environmental review, a move that could reduce the time it takes to build the east-west light rail line by up to two years.

The announcement was the latest indication that the $2.2 billion rail project — which would run from Woodlawn to Bayview — has become a priority for the Obama administration as it looks for ways to spur job creation through construction. The rail project received federal approval in June to move beyond the conceptual stage and into specific planning.

Henry Kay, deputy administrator of the Maryland Transit Administration, said the designation was "excellent news" but said it was no guarantee that a project previously projected for a 2020 opening would be completed in 2018.

"It could potentially speed it up as much as two years, but everything would have to work perfectly," he said.

Kay said the decision could help the MTA speed its dealing with federal environmental agencies that would have to issue permits for various aspects of the project – including the Environmental Protection Agency, the Army Corps of Engineers and the Fish and Wildlife Service. Kay said the move also could help hasten dealings with the Social Security Administration and General Services Administration on issues related to the transit line.

The MTA has had a good working relationship with federal agencies, Kay said. But he said the administration's designation can help because "time isn't always everyone's priority."

The Red Line is now in the preliminary engineering phase, making it one of a relatively few U.S. transit projects to have advanced that far in the federal review process. Last week, the Federal Transit Administration gave the green light to another Maryland light rail project — the $1.9 billion Purple Line in suburban Washington — to also advance to that step.

Both projects have strong support from political leaders in their local jurisdictions but face opposition in certain neighborhoods, such as Canton and Edmondson Village in the case of the Red Line.

If the either project receives final federal approval, it would open the door for Maryland to receive 50 percent U.S. financing for construction. The state would have to come up with matching funds.

The White House selected the Red Line for faster review along with 13 other projects nationwide, including the refurbishment of the Tappan Zee Bridge in New York, the construction of a mixed-use housing and retail development in Washington D.C., and the building of a massive water supply project in New Mexico.

The announcement follows a memorandum President Barack Obama signed in August directing federal agencies to expedite environmental reviews and permit decisions for projects that would create a significant number of jobs.

Plans call for the Red Line's tracks to run in one long tunnel under downtown and Fells Point and in one shorter tunnel under Cooks Lane in West Baltimore. The rest of the route would run above ground, including on Boston Street and Edmondson Avenue.

Advocates say the project is needed to relieve traffic congestion and to provide an alternative way for workers to reach some of the city's major employment centers, including the Inner Harbor, Harbor East, the University of Maryland professional schools and the Johns Hopkins Bayview Medical Center.

The Red Line is not the first Maryland transportation project to be selected for expedited federal review. During the George W. Bush administration, the federal government streamlined the review process for the Intercounty Connector highway project at the request of then-Gov. Robert L. Ehrlich Jr. The first phase of that toll road opened this year.

michael.dresser@baltsun.com

john.fritze@baltsun.com

Somebody had asked why Baltimore and Washington shared the same thread...here's one example of why:

Maryland’s Purple Line lags behind Baltimore rail project in federal review

By Katherine Shaver, Published: October 13 - Washington Post

The Obama administration’s announcement this week that a Baltimore light-rail project will get an expedited environmental review does not affect the timeline for a Purple Line transit link planned for the Washington suburbs, a top Maryland transit official said Thursday.

The Maryland Transit Administration still plans to seek federal and state construction money for a Baltimore Red Line, a proposed east-west light-rail project, and a Purple Line simultaneously, said Henry Kay, who oversees transit projects for the state. Streamlining the federal environmental review and permit process could cut two years off Red Line planning.

“The environmental review is just one part of what we need to do,” Kay said. “I don’t think by extension you can say a Purple Line will open two years later than a Red Line.”

The Red Line’s good news has caused a stir on both sides of the Purple Line debate, with supporters seeking assurances from state officials that the project isn’t falling behind and opponents saying it signals potential pitfalls in the plan, which envisions a 16-mile light-rail line between Bethesda and New Carrollton.

Many Washington area officials are eyeing a Red Line as the Purple Line’s biggest immediate rival for scarce money. While saying publicly that Maryland needs both projects, many say privately that it will be difficult to persuade the Federal Transit Administration to approve — and just as hard to persuade Congress to fund — construction of two major Maryland transit projects simultaneously.

Federal transit money is already highly competitive nationwide, and congressional leaders might cut it in the next long-term transportation bill. Maryland’s transportation budgets have also been slashed.

A potential Purple Line won significant federal endorsement last week, when the FTA approved it to advance to the stage of preliminary engineering — permission that the Red Line received in June.

With both light-rail lines at least a decade from opening, Kay said, both schedules could vary widely depending on any problems that arise during design, land acquisition and construction.

For example, Kay said, a 14-mile Red Line, estimated to cost $2.2 billion, would be more challenging to design and build because it includes four miles of tunnels and five underground stations. A Purple Line, estimated at $1.93 billion, would be primarily aboveground. Both face community opposition along their densely populated routes.

The White House’s decision to fast-track a Red Line “doesn’t imply some kind of choice or preference on our part or on the part of the feds,” Kay said.

It was FTA officials, not state transit planners, who submitted the Red Line to the White House for special consideration, Kay said. He said FTA officials called the MTA on Sept. 26 seeking more Red Line data, including how many jobs it would create.

An FTA spokesman speaking on the condition of anonymity said he couldn’t predict the timing of either project because of the many factors determining the speed at which proposals move through the federal funding process, which can take more than a decade.

The Red Line was one of 14 infrastructure projects across the country that the White House named Monday that would receive expedited environmental review to create jobs quickly. Other projects included a mixed-use development in the District’s Shaw neighborhood.

A Purple Line is designed to improve east-west transit and spur reinvestment in older inner suburbs. The line would connect Maryland’s two ends of Metrorail’s Red Line with the Green and Orange lines, as well as Amtrak and MARC stations.

Ben Ross, a longtime Purple Line activist, said a Purple Line might be lagging a bit behind a Red Line because state and federal officials foresee potential legal opposition from the Town of Chevy Chase and some supporters of a popular wooded bike and jogging trail between Bethesda and Silver Spring.

“Given the amount of money the opposition has,” Ross said, “they’ve got to take the time to make the paperwork bulletproof.”

Ajay Bhatt, president of the nonprofit group Friends of the Capital Crescent Trail, said the state should stop spending tens of millions on Purple Line studies.

“If the state is already in the hole in its transportation fund, and the feds have fast-tracked a Red Line, how can the state even still talk about a Purple Line?” Bhatt said.

Some New shots of the DC Streetcar / Tram lines...


Great pics, althoigh this is probably the first collection of transit pics without any actual transit vehicles/trams/trains on them :lol:

The last that I heard about the H Street line is that it will be powered via overhead wires, but no wires have yet been installed. Are overhead wires still part of the plan?

Yes , they haven't been strung yet...

Once the tram is in place whats going to happen with the parking situation?

Some Aerial pictures of Virginia...

Alexandria , with the Blue & Yellow Metro lines in view.

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6187/6045513083_de7e923865_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/la-citta-vita/6045513083/)
Alexandria, Virginia (http://www.flickr.com/photos/la-citta-vita/6045513083/) by La Citta Vita (http://www.flickr.com/people/la-citta-vita/), on Flickr

Tysons Corner , which will one day be as dense as DC's corner , the Metro can be seen Under Construction...

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6072/6045478465_517460b1f9_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/la-citta-vita/6045478465/)
Tysons Corner, Virginia (http://www.flickr.com/photos/la-citta-vita/6045478465/) by La Citta Vita (http://www.flickr.com/people/la-citta-vita/), on Flickr

Reston , the Metro line will run in the middle of the Tollway and have TOD surrounding it on all sides with a park on top of the Tollway.

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6082/6045470521_5ecd6eb284_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/la-citta-vita/6045470521/)
Reston Town Center, aerial (http://www.flickr.com/photos/la-citta-vita/6045470521/) by La Citta Vita (http://www.flickr.com/people/la-citta-vita/), on Flickr

Once the tram is in place whats going to happen with the parking situation?

It will remain the same , they built parking cut outs for H street.

Wow the streetcar lines and road construction came out looking good on H street. That's going to be a popular area once they get those lines running.

They've put the tram on the sidewalk?

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6055/6215221240_e3901594c0_b.jpg

Most Northamerican streetcars or trams seem to be done "pour la galerie".

Is there any thread whith statistics about their use?

They've put the tram on the sidewalk?

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6055/6215221240_e3901594c0_b.jpg

Most Northamerican streetcars or trams seem to be done "pour la galerie".

Is there any thread whith statistics about their use?

Thats not a sidewalk , but a concrete Railway....

:rofl:

:rofl:

What?

Somebody had asked why Baltimore and Washington shared the same thread...here's one example of why:
{article}

Because two different projects in two different metros within the same state are both vying for federal funding, and they just happen to be in the same article? Still not buying it. :hm:

But it's whatever. Too late to separate the threads now. :cheers:

To actually reply to the article, I can understand why the Baltimore Red Line would take precedence. East-west rapid transit is completely absent there.

How successful do you feel that TOD will be when the line will run down the centre of a highway? I would feel that TOD won't work when it is based around a highway even if there is a metro station there.

An example of this would be the Mandurah line in Perth, Australia. TOD isn't particularly forthcoming around that railway line despite its good frequencies and fast speed.

Because two different projects in two different metros within the same state are both vying for federal funding, and they just happen to be in the same article? Still not buying it.

Although each city has its own Metropolitan Area (MSA) there is also the Baltimore-Washington Metropolitan Area (CSA), consisting of the overlapping labor market region of the cities of Baltimore, Maryland and Washington, D.C.. The region includes Central Maryland, Northern Virginia, and two counties in the Eastern Panhandle of West Virginia. The population of the entire Baltimore-Washington Metroplex as of the 2010 Census is 8,924,087.
This area is primarily served by two different transit agencies The MTA Maryland and the Washington Metropolitan Area Transit Authority (WMATA) that somehow overlap each other.
For example the MARC is a commuter train that links these two cities and is operated by MTA Maryland. Of its three lines, two connect DC and Baltimore, the other one connects DC with others Maryland suburbs.
The two projects mentioned are not just happen to be in the same article, they are promoted by the same agency: MTA Maryland. The Red Line will be in the City of Baltimore connecting with pre-existing rail lines there. The Purple Line will be also built by MTA Maryland but it will connect various lines of Washington Metrorail, operated by WMATA.
Washington Metro Rail goes outside DC into areas of Virginia an Maryland.
In adittion, MTA Maryland operates some commuter buses between DC and diverse areas of Maryland. (WMATA also operates buses conecting DC with Maryland and Virginia suburbs)

You can that the 2 metro's are slowing merging....

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6196/6123848805_77dd6177bd_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/gsfc/6123848805/)
Beautiful New Landsat Mosaic of Chesapeake Bay (http://www.flickr.com/photos/gsfc/6123848805/) by NASA Goddard Photo and Video (http://www.flickr.com/people/gsfc/), on Flickr

Some of the Tyson's New TOD planned...

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-kJwDpQsGqIQ/TWLiDm_BrLI/AAAAAAAAAO0/O3-Gi23hurU/s1600/image003.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_h-z4juWQd3g/TGqanFaaFlI/AAAAAAAADc8/F1yZIPIUwjc/s1600/Tysons+Metro+map.jpg

http://images.greatergreaterwashington.org/images/201107/lcor.jpg

^^Been out of the loop on the Silver Line stuff for a while. Did they finally settle on an elevated route through Tysons? As I recall, there was some talk of a tunnel for a little while.

Actually when I first saw that picture of the Anacostia light rail, I too thought it looked like they built it in the middle of a sidewalk. I hadn't seen concrete used for a rail line that was not actually in a roadway, until this one.

@ BoulderGrad - yes, the Silver Line through Tysons is already being built on an elevated alignment. If you go to Nexis #171, third image, you can see a mostly completed structure on the north side of VA-123 between the Dulles Access Road and a point between the two shopping centers, and you can see the median strip of VA-7 being cleared and widened for the structure there.

I would have preferred a subway too, but money is tight.

Great pictures, Nexis, thanks.

I've had a lot of experience with Tyson's Corner. The area is unreal. It's a chaotic mess of shopping malls, office parks, and roads that appear out of pure suburban sprawl. With its cheap land, road connections, and proximity to DC, I can see why a number of businesses (large and small) ignored its flaws and set up shop there anyway. I hope the Silver Line steers the area in a more urban direction, and looking at some of the proposed development, that seems to happening. But the area is as car-oriented as a place can get. Tyson's planners will definitely have their work cut out for them to get commuters out of there cars.

Baltimore LRT system...

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4125/4949561947_9c593fa35f_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/skabat169/4949561947/)
P1040470 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/skabat169/4949561947/) by skabat169 (http://www.flickr.com/people/skabat169/), on Flickr

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4086/4949559421_3c05abae01_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/skabat169/4949559421/)
P1040459 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/skabat169/4949559421/) by skabat169 (http://www.flickr.com/people/skabat169/), on Flickr

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4106/4950152888_b455dd098c_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/skabat169/4950152888/)
P1040463_edit (http://www.flickr.com/photos/skabat169/4950152888/) by skabat169 (http://www.flickr.com/people/skabat169/), on Flickr

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4092/4949561293_0d724e003b_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/skabat169/4949561293/)
P1040468 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/skabat169/4949561293/) by skabat169 (http://www.flickr.com/people/skabat169/), on Flickr

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4114/4775552211_dbfcebb501_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/skabat169/4775552211/)
P1020776 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/skabat169/4775552211/) by skabat169 (http://www.flickr.com/people/skabat169/), on Flickr

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3178/5748675514_55854ff8bb_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/39017545@N02/5748675514/)
To Cromwell (http://www.flickr.com/photos/39017545@N02/5748675514/) by tracktwentynine (http://www.flickr.com/people/39017545@N02/), on Flickr

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2709/4338029077_439346d34d_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/gratitude_flash/4338029077/)
Light Rail (http://www.flickr.com/photos/gratitude_flash/4338029077/) by Maggie Neely (http://www.flickr.com/people/gratitude_flash/), on Flickr

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5204/5222060709_f9beb40a3f_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/davidwilson1949/5222060709/)
19940108 01 MTA Light Rail, Baltimore, MD (http://www.flickr.com/photos/davidwilson1949/5222060709/) by davidwilson1949 (http://www.flickr.com/people/davidwilson1949/), on Flickr

I-UfHphm_KE

^^
Great photos!!
Keep 'em coming!!

Baltimore LR runs very fast when grade seperated. Impressive.

those are some very nice pics that were just posted

MARC Penn line

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5097/5533972092_016df9f717_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/39017545@N02/5533972092/)
4911 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/39017545@N02/5533972092/) by tracktwentynine (http://www.flickr.com/people/39017545@N02/), on Flickr

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2787/4343795954_8d5c131c70_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/rstavely/4343795954/)
HHP-8 x2 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/rstavely/4343795954/) by Ryan Stavely (http://www.flickr.com/people/rstavely/), on Flickr

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/61/202331942_9d45f0570a_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/wallyg/202331942/)
Maryland - Havre de Grace: Amtrak Susquehanna River Bridge (http://www.flickr.com/photos/wallyg/202331942/) by wallyg (http://www.flickr.com/people/wallyg/), on Flickr

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6014/5999924693_19ef56c8ae_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/toranosuke/5999924693/)
Baltimore Penn Station (http://www.flickr.com/photos/toranosuke/5999924693/) by toranosuke (http://www.flickr.com/people/toranosuke/), on Flickr

mpQZM3AZnM0

Baltimore Full Build Transit plan.... , Station by Station

Current / Proposed lines

Red line - East - West Corridor

Center for Medicare/Medicaid Services
Security Square Mall
Social Security Administration
I-70 Park and Ride
Edmondson Village
Allendale Street
Rosemont
West Baltimore MARC
Harlem Park
Poppleton
University Center
Charles Center
Government Center/Inner Harbor
Inner Harbor East
Fells Point
Canton
Canton Crossing
Highlandtown/Greektown
Bayview MARC
Bayview Campus
O Donnell Heights
Holabird Heights
Dundalk
Turners Point

Yellow line - North - South Corridor

Columbia Town Center
Merriweather Post Pavilion
Owen Brown
Broken Land
Columbia Gateway
Guilford
Waterloo
Meadowridge
Dorsey Station (MARC)
Arundel Mills Mall
Baltimore Commons
BWI Amtrak/MARC
BWI Business District (Connects with Blue Line)
BWI Airport
Linthicum
North Linthicum
Nursery Road
Baltimore Highlands
Patapsco
Cherry Hill
Westport
Hamburg Street
Camden Yards (MARC)
Inner Harbor
Charles Center (Red & Green Lines)
Mt. Vernon
Pennsylvania Station (Amtrak/MARC)
25th Street
Johns Hopkins University
Waverly
Cold Spring
Govans
Belvedere Square
Rodgers Forge
Towson University/Medical Center
Towson
Beltway North
Lutherville
Timonium Business Park
Timonium
Texas
Warren Road
Gilroy Road
McCormick Road
Pepper Road
Hunt Valley

Green line - North - South Corridor

Owings Mills
Old Court
Milford Mill
Reisterstown Plaza
Rogers Avenue
West Coldspring
Mondawmin
Penn-North
Upton / Avenue Market
State
Lexington Market
Charles Center
Shot Tower / Market Place
Johns Hopkins Hospital
Madison Square MARC
East North Avenue
Cold Stream
33rd Street
Northwood
Morgan State University
Hamilton
Northern Parkway
Overlea
Fullerton
Perry Hall
White Marsh
I-95 Park and Ride
Middle River
Martin State Airport MARC


Blue line - North - South Corridor

BWI Business District (Connects with Blue Line)
BWI Airport
Linthicum
North Linthicum
Nursery Road
Baltimore Highlands
Patapsco
Cherry Hill
Westport
Hamburg Street
Camden Yards (MARC)
Convention Center
University Center/Baltimore St
Lexington Market
Centre Street
Cultural Center
U. of Baltimore/Mt. Royal
Baltimore Penn Station
North Avenue
Woodberry
Coldspring Lane
Mt. Washington
Lutherville
Timonium Business Park
Timonium
Texas
Warren Road
Gilroy Road
McCormick Road
Pepper Road
Hunt Valley

gvL-EkgzzTg

http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6232/6325795142_49f548abf5_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/ajfroggie/6325795142/)
dc-streetcars (http://www.flickr.com/photos/ajfroggie/6325795142/) by ajfroggie (http://www.flickr.com/people/ajfroggie/), on Flickr

^^ Is this a fantasy map or in any way planned? If it isn't from the municipality and from a railfan instead then it doesn't really mean much does it?

Here is the map from the local transit agency responsible for upcoming DC tram system:
http://www.dcstreetcar.com/uploads/6/1/6/2/6162393/4149810_orig.jpg?526

This is a concept map btw. Check the official website for more info

That would be an impressive network if it gets built. DC would be quite the transit city if it pulls that off!

Indeed, but I would love for the region to also invest into a bigger and more frequent suburban rail system, a circular metro or light rail route, and more TOD in the region.

Indeed, but I would love for the region to also invest into a bigger and more frequent suburban rail system, a circular metro or light rail route, and more TOD in the region.
This right here.

Fairfax Times
http://www.fairfaxtimes.com/article/20111213/NEWS/712139968/-1/underground-tunnel-under-construction-at-tysons-corner&template=fairfaxTimes


Underground tunnel under construction at Tysons Corner

Tunnel part of Metro line that will take trains from Falls Church to Reston
by Fairfax County Times Staff

A 2,400-foot tunnel is under construction under Tysons Corner, as part of the Dulles Corridor Metrorail Project. The tunnel is part of the 11.7-mile Metro line that will take trains from Falls Church to Reston by late 2013.

Tysons Corner will serve as home to four of Phase 1's first five stations.

The tunnel goes underground where Route 123 meets Route 7, and will connect the Tysons I and II metro stops.

http://www.fairfaxtimes.com/storyimage/PN/20111213/NEWS/712139968/AR/AR-712139968.jpg
Shamus Ian Fatzinger/Fairfax County Times Chafik Ahbella and John Hall sort hardware used to install brackets inside a 2400-foot tunnel that will connect the Tysons I and II metro stops as part of the Dulles Corridor Metrorail Project. The tunnel is part of the 11.7-mile first phase that will take trains from Falls Church to Reston by late 2013.

http://www.fairfaxtimes.com/storyimage/PN/20111213/NEWS/712139968/EP/1/1/EP-712139968.jpg
Shamus Ian Fatzinger/Fairfax County Times Crews work at the opening of a 2,400-foot tunnel under Tysons Corner, part of the Dulles Corridor Metrorail Project.The tunnel goes underground where Route 123 meets Route 7. The first phase of the Metro line has a strong focus on Tysons Corner, which will serve as home to four of Phase 1's first five stations.

I wasn't aware the New Metro Rail was going to be underground through parts of Tysons?

I wasn't aware the New Metro Rail was going to be underground through parts of Tysons?

Only for a very short distance in order to negotiate a relatively tight turn and grade change—no underground stations.

MARC to add 16 rail cars
Purchase will allow 3,000 more passengers per trip

By Annie Linskey, The Baltimore Sun

3:54 p.m. EDT, November 2, 2011

Maryland commuter train riders will have more seats when the state adds 16 rail cars to its busy MARC lines. But the cars won't arrive until 2013.

The purchase was approved Wednesday in a 3-0 vote by Maryland's Board of Public Works. The board agreed to buy 54 new rail cars for $153 million from Bombardier Transit Corporation, a Quebec based firm. Thirty-eight of the cars will replace old ones in the fleet.

The new rail cars will allow 3,000 additional commuters to sit per trip, Maryland Transit Administration head Ralign Wells pointed out. The new cars will hold 127 to 142 passengers, up to 30 more than those in the fleet being replaced.

"MARC riders will be so relieved," said Gov. Martin O'Malley, who chairs the public works board, which also includes state Comptroller Peter Franchot and state Treasurer Nancy Kopp.

The governor noted that the state rail lines enable "people who work in the Washington area to live in Baltimore essentially at half the cost."

MTA administrator Wells said his agency has not yet determined how the new cars will be allocated among the three MARC lines. "Everyone will notice some improvement," Wells said. MARC runs two rail lines through Baltimore, the Camden and Penn lines, as well as the Brunswick Line to the west.

Each new rail car will have two levels for seating. And each will have four doors instead of two, a change that will reduce time spent at stops since riders will be able to enter and exit more efficiently, Wells said.

Wells said he expects the cars to be delivered "mid-2013." It can take years from order to delivery of new rail cars, but Wells said these are coming faster because Maryland is buying some that were initially ordered by the New Jersey Transit Administration.

Annie.linskey@baltsun.com

http://www.twitter.com/annielinskey

G_A7XuGa34A

^^will that be a tram line with road crossings or LRT - fully independent from traffic?

^^will that be a tram line with road crossings or LRT - fully independent from traffic?

It will be a mix of grade / traffic separated sections and traffic mixed sections.

WPkW2yHdOTw

Montgomery council endorses buses for I-270 corridor

The Montgomery County Council has changed its mind on what kind of transit line to build in the rapidly growing and heavily congested Interstate 270 corridor, voting Tuesday to recommend a busway over the light rail system it endorsed in 2009. The unanimous recommendation now goes to Maryland Gov. Martin O’Malley (D) as he considers which mode and route to submit in a highly competitive bid for federal construction money.

A 15-mile Corridor Cities Transitway (CCT) would connect the Shady Grove station at the end of Metro’s Red Line in Rockville with the Clarksburg area, via Gaithersburg and Germantown. <snip>

A rapid bus system is estimated to cost $491 million to build, while a light rail system is projected to cost $772 million.

Story, in full, Here (http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/commuting/montgomery-council-endorses-buses-for-i-270-corridor/2012/01/24/gIQA9rJcNQ_story.html)

Wonder if masking the tracks in that purple line promo must've been intentional.

7000 Series Metro Car

ZrZIqiQxaQU

TBH looking at the video the seats on the older 6000 series cars looked (and actually are) more confortable. Maybe it's just an impression.

^^When is entry into service on the 7000 series?

^^When is entry into service on the 7000 series?

2014

There's no telling the destination of the train featured in the following video, I wish I knew. Is the nearest track ever used; if so, when?
KCd6d4weXtE

There's no telling the destination of the train featured in the following video, I wish I knew. Is the nearest track ever used; if so, when?

Ah, Halethorpe Station. I remember it well. :) That's a northbound train headed eventually to Baltimore Penn Station. No telling if it's going to stop at West Baltimore before getting there.

As far as I can recall, they use the outside tracks only when Acela is scheduled to pass through at some point.

Baltimore light rail (MTA) is testing grass track beds

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7219/7127307231_858d48243b_c.jpg
source: BeyondDC flickr account
http://www.flickr.com/photos/beyonddc/7127307231/in/photostream

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7049/6981225076_61ba3c1f3e_c.jpg
source: BeyondDC flickr account
http://www.flickr.com/photos/beyonddc/6981225076/in/photostream

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7188/7127315729_b8ac7e78a6_c.jpg
source: BeyondDC flickr account
http://www.flickr.com/photos/beyonddc/7127315729/in/photostream

^^ Perhaps they could install lawn mower blades under the LRVs to avoid the expense of having a separate crew cut the grass.

^^

Even Belgrade has better trams than those. :(

^^

Even Belgrade has better trams than those. :(

:rofl:

^^

Just for comparison:

Old (Czechoslovak-red, Swiss-green)ones:

http://static.panoramio.com/photos/original/29391245.jpghttp://www.mondo.rs/slike/vesti/001/464/v146492p0.jpghttp://www.smedia.rs/vesti/slike/news_33681.jpg

New (Spanish) ones:

http://www.nightlife-belgrade.com/content/news/02fc3646-668c-11e0-8f64-a4badb54589c.jpghttp://www.glas-javnosti.rs//files/image_for_teaser/22bg%20spanski%20tramvaj.jpg

^^

Even Belgrade has better trams than those. :(

Actually they aren't trams they are light rail vehicles. Whilst in Europe and other places light rail vehicles are generally trams that run on road or on a reserved right of way in North America light rail is a separate class sitting between tram (street car in US talk) and heavy rail.

Baltimore light rail (MTA) is testing grass track beds


What's there to test? Tons of places around the world have trams running on wonderfully green grass, it's great.

in Europe and other places light rail vehicles are generally trams that run on road or on a reserved right of way

Not where I'm from. Trams that run on road or on reserved right of way are called trams.

When trams share metro (or even train) tracks for part of their journey, they are generally considered light rail. Some trams that have strong metro characteristics (long distances between stations, speed, (almost) completely segregated track, longer vehicles) are also called light rail.

Baltimore's fleet appears the crashworthy one of the lot ...

Actually they aren't trams they are light rail vehicles. Whilst in Europe and other places light rail vehicles are generally trams that run on road or on a reserved right of way in North America light rail is a separate class sitting between tram (street car in US talk) and heavy rail.

A sort of Boston Green Line...

Not where I'm from. Trams that run on road or on reserved right of way are called trams.

When trams share metro (or even train) tracks for part of their journey, they are generally considered light rail. Some trams that have strong metro characteristics (long distances between stations, speed, (almost) completely segregated track, longer vehicles) are also called light rail.

Where are you from and also note the word generally, if you don't know what it means look it up in a dictonary.

Where are you from and also note the word generally, if you don't know what it means look it up in a dictonary.

Europe.

And be nice.

Europe.

And be nice.

In which case what I said, which to remind you is "Whilst in Europe and other places light rail vehicles are generally trams" is right. So what part where you disagreeing with? And be nice yourself.

In which case what I said, which to remind you is "Whilst in Europe and other places light rail vehicles are generally trams" is right. So what part where you disagreeing with? And be nice yourself.

The Netherlands. But I haven't heard of any other European country calling trams, light rail.

The distinction's been prominent for maybe a century now in N America, i.e., streetcar/trolley vs. interurban; nowadays, I suppose, it's vs LRT. Think of an interurban (LRT) as heavy duty tram ... the distinction may be the result of supplied voltage, current, such that substations could be spaced farther apart for the comparatively longer distances travelled around the continent :dunno: Also, trolleybusses tend to be called trackless trolleys ;)

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4048/4255510213_33c113c6c5.jpg



Check out how a well-known, 114-year-old corporation pegs one of their infrastructures, to the following (heavy duty) metro :nuts:

http://www.bechtel.com/assets/images/briefs_may07/frontend_2.jpg
"... San Francisco’s BART was North America’s first modern interurban rapid transit system. ..." (http://www.bechtel.com/front_end1.html)

The Netherlands. But I haven't heard of any other European country calling trams, light rail.

Firstly I think you may have missread what I wrote. Suggest you go back and read my first post on the matter, in particular the bit where I said in America, repeat in America the vehicle that was in the picture was NOT refered to a tram, and how in Europe the vehicles that run on light rail systems are generally called trams (and are actually different to the vehicle pictured). In fact I would say it seems like we are actually in agreeance.

As for your comment above are you refering to the vehicles or to the system? If the system then most of the systems in the UK are refered to as light rail, but the vehicles are called trams (or the generic term train). The exception of course is the Docklands Light Rail system in London where the vehicles are not called trams, however quite clearly the DLR is heavier than what is considered light rail in the rest of Europe, in is more a metro system than anything.

Firstly I think you may have missread what I wrote. Suggest you go back and read my first post on the matter, in particular the bit where I said in America, repeat in America the vehicle that was in the picture was NOT refered to a tram, and how in Europe the vehicles that run on light rail systems are generally called trams (and are actually different to the vehicle pictured). In fact I would say it seems like we are actually in agreeance.

As for your comment above are you refering to the vehicles or to the system? If the system then most of the systems in the UK are refered to as light rail, but the vehicles are called trams (or the generic term train). The exception of course is the Docklands Light Rail system in London where the vehicles are not called trams, however quite clearly the DLR is heavier than what is considered light rail in the rest of Europe, in is more a metro system than anything.

This is a bit of an odd discussion. The German Stadtbahn systems and the pre-metro systems in other European cities are actually "light rail" systems by many definitions. The Essen Stadtbahn actually uses the same vehicles as the DLR used to before it got its new stock.

The whole definition of "light rail" vs. "tram" came about because they wanted to rebrand trams to something else to get people over the image of slow, clunky, noisy vehicles that take up road space, so they came up with the term "light rail". But now things have moved beyond this. Generally, segregated ROW and more metro-like services combined with tram-like vehicles characterise "light rail" systems. But anyway, this is a bit of a meaningless diversion into terminology that doesn't really have a bearing on the system.

This is a bit of an odd discussion. The German Stadtbahn systems and the pre-metro systems in other European cities are actually "light rail" systems by many definitions. The Essen Stadtbahn actually uses the same vehicles as the DLR used to before it got its new stock.

The whole definition of "light rail" vs. "tram" came about because they wanted to rebrand trams to something else to get people over the image of slow, clunky, noisy vehicles that take up road space, so they came up with the term "light rail". But now things have moved beyond this. Generally, segregated ROW and more metro-like services combined with tram-like vehicles characterise "light rail" systems. But anyway, this is a bit of a meaningless diversion into terminology that doesn't really have a bearing on the system.

I agree and the definition isn't really clear. However however what triggered this was someone making comment as to how outdated the "tram" pictured was. I was pointing out that in the US the vehicle would be considered light rail and not a tram/streetcar and how in the US light rail is a separate class hence why it is a big chunky vehicle.

In Europe and elsewhere light rail, as you point out could be anything from trams to 'metro' style systems like DLR, but the vehicle we were discussing could in no way shape or form be called a tram.