Guys i have been trying to get this out of some of you in the 2020 Olympics thread and i realised the people that probably know the answer to this are not reading that discussion, so hence this thread.

My question is: How is CTIA double the capacity of KSIA when most of the elements you would expect of an airport with double the capacity are not there, or are not visable.

Undoubtably CTIA is a bigger airport as it currently handles many millions more people than Durban, but the actual airport doesnt screen double the capacity of KSIA.

Some figures for comparisson:

Stated capacity

CTIA - 14.2million per annum
KSIA - 7.5million per annum

Terminal size

CTIA - ???
KSIA - 108,000m2

Airbridges

CTIA 10 (5 domestic/ 5 international)
KSIA 16/18 (3/5 International. 13 domestic)

Aircraft bays

CTIA - 38
KSIA - 34

Check in counters

CTIA - 120 manned, 20 Self check in
KSIA - 72 manned, 18 Self check in

Retail space

CTIA - 6700m2
KSIA - 6500m2


I think the new CTIA is a fantastic revamp in many ways. Why query is just to understand why it is not obvious that it has double the capacity of KSIA. One would expect an airport with the double the capacity to be statistically better in most areas.

SSC SA's views?

Not my view

Pretty simple actually

KSIA is a new airport so you might as well do it properly and build the gates with PLBs and do a proper job of it.

CPT has most of its gates as remote stands and the capital expenditure to build PLBs and the associated infrastructure, incl subways under the apron etc etc does not justify the capital expenditure. There are 4 PLBs for international flts and 6 for dom flts. BY careful juggling of flts/slots/managing of the a/c (ie towing to remote stands after arr and prior to dep) most of the intl flts are able to get to a PLB for both arr and dep, if not at least one of these movements will get a PLB.

Being a linear apron means you are going to have at least 50% of your gates being remote and a large number of those gates are allocated to commuter a/c who do not want to use PLBs as it will increase their turnaround times. Easier to taxi in, off load and taxi out again with min fuss.

Think that about does it

^^ who's view is it?

I get what the person is saying, but I still do not understand how it equates to double the capacity. If that was the case, and that this is all that was needed, then if KSIA implemented towing and the like they could add a few million to the capacity too. So there needs to be more to it

^^ who's view is it?

I get what the person is saying, but I still do not understand how it equates to double the capacity. If that was the case, and that this is all that was needed, then if KSIA implemented towing and the like they could add a few million to the capacity too. So there needs to be more to it

I asked somebody on an aviation forum. I'll post more as soon as they reply.

Thanks...

I'm not doubting the double capacity, i'm questionning how it can be something as simple as that for then whats the point of the next expensive phase of expansions at KSIA when the 7.5million capacity is reached. Rather just bring in tow trucks

It's actually not. Secretly KSIA is triple ORTIA's capacity but most of the extra passengers are hiding behind the seats.....

I guess some anomalies in life you just have to accept ;)

There's a number of factors apart from the actual physical airport stucture that get taken into account when determining capacity including opertational hours, ATC constraints, final approach routes, probable aircraft types, proportion of non passenger aircraft (cargo, military etc), daily distribution of flights, size of airspace, restricted areas of airspace, weather patterns etc.

All of these can have a very significant influence on capacity. So despite the terminal buildings being similar size KSIA and CTIA could have very different capacities. I do doubt however that the difference is as large as double though. There's many different models for calculating capacity which makes a big difference plus a bit of thumbsucking.

Thanks, Greg. It would be interesting to see how much the capacity of KSIA would expand to if the CT criteria / factors are appllied to it (hours of operations, distribution of flights, etc). I am assuming that KSIA would be able to scale-up in many of those respects.

Thanks greg...

But sorry the whole thing still seems ever so vague and as you said "thumbsuck" to me

All of that seems far from vague to me o_O Very complicated is more like it.

It is clear that more goes into making such a statement then just the building size. These Amazing visuals help to understand the belief that CTIA is "so much bigger". Such volumes at 8AM on a weekday
Northern end of corridor(notice how empty it is at 8am)

http://media2.z2.zoopy.com/media/cache/2010/05/16/53574/204917/thumb-640x.jpg?1274039270

looking to the northern end

http://media2.z2.zoopy.com/media/cache/2010/05/16/53574/204915/thumb-640x.jpg?1274039439

From the southern end looking north towards main hall

http://media2.z2.zoopy.com/media/cache/2010/05/16/53574/204904/thumb-640x.jpg?1274040208

Southern end

http://media2.z2.zoopy.com/media/cache/2010/05/16/53574/204902/thumb-640x.jpg?1274040259

international gates, with no seating whatsoever...?

http://media2.z2.zoopy.com/media/cache/2010/05/16/53574/204901/thumb-640x.jpg?1274040307
KSIA is looking divine, and CTIA has a great CTB.

My question is: How is CTIA double the capacity of KSIA when most of the elements you would expect of an airport with double the capacity are not there, or are not visable.

For one, more of the aircraft bays at CTIA are capable of handling more wide bodies than KSIA

Aircraft bays

CTIA - 38
KSIA - 34

Second, CTIA has nearly double the check-in desks, meaning they could check-in nearly double the passengers per hour

Check in counters

CTIA - 120 manned, 20 Self check in
KSIA - 72 manned, 18 Self check in

Third, security checkpoints are designed to handle more at CTIA than KSIA.

Thanks. Those sound like plausable grounds to me.

^^ its closer to 1.5 (recurring) times the number of checkin counters, that said that is a significant difference and if many of the other bottle necks are similarly scaled, either in terms of number, size, or efficiency could well lead to a lot greater capacity, though I dont quite see it been double, but maybe the added options further increase capacity (sorta like a buy in bulk and save ;) )

I be found some stats:

CTIA: Airport Terminal Maximum Hourly Passenger Capacities

Domestic: Arrivals/Departures per hour: 1250/1250
International: Arrivals/Departures per hour: 2400/2400

Total: 3650/3650

The above shows the hourly passenger capacities of the new terminal buildings at the CTIA. This capacity is defined by aspects including baggage handling systems, and the service rates of processes like check-in and customs.

Runway Capacity

20 Air Traffic Movements (ATM’s) with typical airplane distribution is
required to carry the capacity of the terminal building in one direction. The runway capacity at CTIA exceeds 20 ATM’s per direction per hour, which means that the terminal capacity will govern the utilisation of the runway. Spare capacity on the runway can be used by freight and
chartered flights.

Airplane Type - Movements - Passengers per Plane - Passengers

Wide body - 4 - 350 - 1400
Narrow Body - 16 - 140 - 2240

True, KSIA front side cant accommodate the A330 which is worrying, but at the same time how many are we going to get & how many do we need?

^^ so what if it cant accomodate them at the front? they are accomodated at the back - whats the difference? My concern was the lack of D/E gates. CTIA cant even accomodate the A380 from what i remember - plans are afoot to change that.

It's actually not. Secretly KSIA is triple ORTIA's capacity but most of the extra passengers are hiding behind the seats.....

I guess some anomalies in life you just have to accept ;)

hahahaha

^^ so what if it cant accomodate them at the front? they are accomodated at the back - whats the difference? My concern was the lack of D/E gates. CTIA cant even accomodate the A380 from what i remember - plans are afoot to change that.

in the likely hood of getting more international flights CT has gates that can handle more of these smaller planes than KSIA, thats my point, we have 2 gates, they have 4 or more. Not many Airlines use A380's as yet, even the ones that do might not generally fly to CT. Just saying.

^^ yes but our two gates can handle more planes than just two large ones. Anyway dont build loads of international gates until you have the flights

^^ yes but our two gates can handle more planes than just two large ones. Anyway dont build loads of international gates until you have the flights

But build a whole new airport to attract international flights. How an you get international flights without international gates!!

They have stands for them...why build so many extra international contact gates that will sit vacant until they lock down the flights?? rather provide remote stands and some contact gates and if demand really surges push forward the next expansion phase.

I guess it will happen in time. The airports been open for almost a month now and so far only Emirates has been flying in & we've only secured 1 other airline in Jet, nothing from Virgin, Singapore or Eithaad. Obviously we're not going to get guys flying in every hour so our 2 gates should suffice should we get all of the mentioned airlines, but I think personally that all the gates in the front were an overkill if they cant accommodate these smaller planes that make International flights.

I guess it will happen in time. The airports been open for almost a month now and so far only Emirates has been flying in & we've only secured 1 other airline in Jet, nothing from Virgin, Singapore or Eithaad. Obviously we're not going to get guys flying in every hour so our 2 gates should suffice should we get all of the mentioned airlines, but I think personally that all the gates in the front were an overkill if they cant accommodate these smaller planes that make International flights.


Agreed. At least 2-3 gates on alpha apron to help with international flights!