I was just watching some stuff on tv yesterday and I remember seeing this thing about 1Malaysia. basically Malaysia is like Canada too and their citizens are often like, I'm Chinese-malaysian, indian-malaysian

but with this concept, the citizens are encouraged to just say, I'M MALAYSIAN!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1Malaysia

I actually wish we could do something like that here in Canada.. Coz i am actually sick of a lot of "Canadians" loving their home country first lol, not that there's anything wrong with that, but Canada deserves more love..

^^ Agreed. I appreciate foreigners who bring concepts and traditions from their homeland in order to enrich our nation. But when they take these ideas and try to alter the Canadian cultural landscape, i get pissed off. One of the main reasons they left their country in the 1st place was probably to start over, not to bring their problems with them for us to deal with. It's bullshit.

I always say I'm Canadian first.

I don't think any of us should be pressuring others or deciding how another is to self-identify. Whether an individual wants to identify as Indian-Canadian, Canadian, Jewish-Russian-Canadian, etc, it really is no concern of anyone else's. My Canada and my idea of Canadian culture is not one that promotes a restricted form of identification.

Yes. Canadians should feel Canadian first.

I have no wish to associate myself with where I come from.

Perhaps in certain parts of the country this might be an issue but I see no problem with it here in Toronto. Living in Toronto is like living in the United Nations. It's almost a given we are all Canadian, or Landed Immigrants, so people usually when asked about their background will say their birth country or parents birth country. Also why bother asking if you're not interested in their background? Throwing in Canadian before their country of origin is so pointless. All Candians though no matter where they are from will gladly boast about being Canadian outside of our borders.

In this day and age being Canadian is being Italian, English, French, Malaysian, Pakistani, Chinese, you name it without having to say you are Canadian. We get it. And as you will see over the next 4 weeks Toronto's many nations will come out in droves, it's a time to take in all the cultures this city has to offer. People have huge pride for their culture, but they also now that they are in one of the worlds most tollerant cities. We can enjoy being here representing our former countries helping to make this country what it is, a nation of nations. What is a Canadian anyway?

Additionally, the idea that Canada "was" some sort of homogenous society is untrue. From the beginning the land now known as Canada was home to a multitudes of various tribes of Native Canadians, which was then added to by the French, British, Irish, Scottish, Africans, Americans, Italians, Greeks, Japanese, Chinese, etc. Canada has always been heterogenous. We have always been a land for dispersed peoples.

Civic or national pride has to come from within. It cannot be mandated, or created by having people parrot a phrase. Some cultures have a strong social pressure that demands of their citizens to loudly proclaim their national pride. Other nations, like Canada, mostly leave it up to the individual to decide what they want to feel. A person doesn't have to wave a flag to have pride... it is either something they have within or they don't.

I don't think nationalism is that important to a great country. Canada is a really nice place to live but you don't need to be super patriotic to enjoy it or to contribute to it.

Even if a culture unwittingly encourages newcomers to loudly complain about everything, it is better than forcing them to automatically wave a flag and proclaim civic or national pride or else risk the chance of being ostracised.

I don't think nationalism fits into the Canadian psyche.

Canada's trump card is its plurality, but it's a valid criticism when people lament about a lack of attachment or respect for the nation. Celebrate your identity, but embrace the nation that makes that possible at the same time. Too often it's one over the other instead of both at the same time.

With the WC in full swing, it reminds me of an incident I found myself in last time around. It was Canada Day and hordes of people were running around with Portugal flags after a soccer win. Not a Maple Leaf in sight. I went up to one girl and told her she was holding up the wrong flag.

Stunned she replied, "what about multiculturalism?" I said that I was the biggest backer of multiculturalism you're going to find, but on our nation's birthday shouldn't she honour the nation that's making that all possible for her? I could see the light bulb go off in her head.

She beamed and said, "what if I waved both the Portuguese and Canadian flag today?" "PERFECT", I replied.

Celebrating ones identity is important, but also celebrate the nation that's given you shelter, employment, clothing, food, health care, security, equality, dignity, opportunity, and the freedom to be whoever you want to be.

It should never be an either/or proposition.

I don't think nationalism fits into the Canadian psyche.

The Vancouver Olympics dispelled that national myth. We're a profoundly patriotic people whether we care to admit it or not.

I was just watching some stuff on tv yesterday and I remember seeing this thing about 1Malaysia. basically Malaysia is like Canada too and their citizens are often like, I'm Chinese-malaysian, indian-malaysian

but with this concept, the citizens are encouraged to just say, I'M MALAYSIAN!


Surprisingly, one of the regions of Canada where one is most likely to mark 'Canadian' down on the census is Quebec. It's no surprise that Nova Scotia, PEI, New Brunswick, Newfoundland, and eastern Ontario are the other areas where 'Canadian' gets marked most on the census.

I was surprised that no jurisdiction in western Canada had 'Canadian' as the #1 response on the 2006 census. Another surprise: their were only 2 jurisdictions where 'French' was the #1 response. One was in Nova Scotia, while the other was in Alberta!

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_YU5mPEjPHcQ/SxGsCF0MDJI/AAAAAAAAGRg/L-J1joNv6nQ/s1600/Ethnic+Map+Canada+2006.png

Another interesting tidbit: Newfoundland & Labrador is our newest province (having joined only in 1949), yet is routinely cited as the most patriotic province in the nation.

Southern Ontario is a far less patriotic area of Canada than the Maritimes, but even here I see an upswing in nationalist interest. I went into a Metro grocery store in Toronto last night and it was decked from one end to the other in Maple Leafs.

I asked if it was for Canada Day, and the cashier said it was. I was pleasantly surprised to see the gesture a full 3 weeks before the actual day, but I would have been shocked to see it in Toronto 5 years ago.

Patriotism isn't nationalism.

I always say I'm Canadian first.

I do the same when asked, but because I am a visible minority when I am asked they ask again. I explain I was born here, but my parents are from ... Is it because I am a minority that people don't accept me as a Canadian? I consider myself fairly patriotic. I managed to get onto that mosaic of Canadians Molson did for the Olympics and hung outside their brewery.

Yes. Canadians should feel Canadian first.

I have no wish to associate myself with where I come from.

it seems to me that you've got issues :lol: :jk:

* * *

immigrants, like myself, while staying connected to their roots, should keep in mind that Canada is their home (albeit not native land :lol:) now, so it would be best for them not to force the rest of Canada to submit their own culture specific needs

immigrants keep complaining about having a difficult time integrating with the locals, but, i wonder if they've looked into themselves, and maybe see that the problem doesn't lie with the locals but with them

i mean, if you want your kid to carry a dagger to school, then go back to wherever you came from :nuts:

Well, in India, do white British background people who've been there for centuries consider themselves Indian or British Indian?

While I may not agree with what they're doing, true Canadians are those willing to join the Armed Forces. Look at the backgrounds of those getting hurt/killed in the Canadian army in Afghanistan....

I wouldn't draw too many conclusions about who true Canadians are and ethnic make up of the armed forces. Our bases are heavily skewed towards areas of the country that are predominantly European stock. Naturally, they draw from those places as opposed to Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver, or Hamilton.

P.S. India isn't a nation of immigrants, Canada is. What makes sense in India, doesn't necessarily make sense in Canada.

I do the same when asked, but because I am a visible minority when I am asked they ask again. I explain I was born here, but my parents are from ... Is it because I am a minority that people don't accept me as a Canadian?

Next time someone presses you further when you say you're Canadian, ask them the same thing. If they say Canadian, just ask again like they did. Unless their background is indigenous, keep asking till they mention some other country.

That should shut them up or at least make them think that one over a little better the next time.

While I may not agree with what they're doing, true Canadians are those willing to join the Armed Forces. Look at the backgrounds of those getting hurt/killed in the Canadian army in Afghanistan....

I'm a white, 4th generation Canadian and I don't consider myself any more or less Canadian than anyone else, but there is no way in hell I would ever join the Canadian Armed Forces.

What a strange thread.

For me, Canada is a blade of grass that bends in the wind. It bends, but doesn't break (but we always feel the need to cut the top off - heaven forbid the blade that stands out in the crowd).

Who cares about how people who live here identify with their personal culture? That is the nature of a free country.

Should people ask the same questions about religion, sexual orientation, etc? No. Of course not, so why should this matter?

There is nothing unhealthy about people exhibiting joy and pride for their ancestral homeland - even on Canada Day.

And let's not forget that many of us have dual citizenship - is that a bad thing?

Why do people come here in Canada to live, work and play, with some even investing and spending their entire fortunes just to get a student/ working/ tourist visa?
Aren't they afraid of starting life anew in a vast foreign land well away from their countries of origin?
Aren't they intimidated by the harsh weather? How about culture shock and language barriers? Or the prospect of becoming an illegal alien after their visas expire and not have access to important government services such as healthcare? Or maybe, even big and not so cuddly bears wreaking havoc in backyards?

I think we all have hundreds of different answers, but in our hearts we all know that it will boil down to how great this country is and how greener its pastures are. We may all come from different places and backgrounds and may be proud of our own cultures and histories, but at the end of the day, we are all united under one banner, and that was very evident during the last Olympics. I was there, and I was so impressed with how different ethnicities from young to old are proudly wearing the Maple Leaf. Some relatives of mine from south of the border were actually so amazed by the display of patriotism and told me that they hadn't experienced something like that in the States except during tragic events such as 9/11.
Degrees of patriotism and nationalism would of course vary from people who recently arrived here and from people whose familial generations were rooted here, much like the early settlers of New York vs the waves of immigrants from the late 19th century.
Canada is still a young country, give it time and younger generations and the children of recent immigrants would surely call Canada home and adjudge themselves as Canadians. I myself is not even a Canadian citizen, yet, I'm already proud to be Canadian and is looking forward on the day I'll officially become one.

Canada may not be the native land of most, but definitely, it is our chosen land.

There is nothing unhealthy about people exhibiting joy and pride for their ancestral homeland - even on Canada Day.

And let's not forget that many of us have dual citizenship - is that a bad thing?

Of course not. No one has said that.

No one has said that explicitly because the idea suggested in this discussion is contrary to it, thus there is no need to say it because it is what we are discussing.

"Mozaic culture" is kind of deceiving and delays the process of becoming one (not assimilation). And it gives immigrants and even the second generations a reason why they can still identify themselves as not Canadian but more ___.

"Melting pot" is straightforward and that's what will naturally and eventually happen through generations.

I remember somebody said "isn't Canada also one of the failed countries?"
Not only for this topic but anyway, Canadians should really wake up. They need a leader like Berrack Obama or someone who's not scared of changing things like bad tradition or inefficient fundamental thoughts for better.

How about this fundamental thought: Canadian isn't a culture at all, it is a collection of cultures sharing a single nation and living in peace.

Oh no Vid, don't say anything that might challenge people to think outside of the box. :)

What a strange thread.



+1

I noticed some media outlets are coming out now, saying that people waving flags from their cars during the World Cup is "unpatriotic" or some bullsh1t like that.

What the heck are we, Americans?

Btw, as for Malaysia, isn't this the same country that up until recently, had a ban on Serbian citizens visiting the place and still does on Israelis?
So, why are we comparing ourselves to such a fascist country again?

Maybe they're afraid we'll Balkanize if we don't all think the same way. :|

Actually, as I was doing my tour of the bars last night, I noticed none had a Canadian flag displayed out front. Now, I know the Canadian team weren't part of the WC, but still, it was annoying. I mean, in America, the American flag is always present; in Quebec, the fleur de lis is always present.

On the flip side, I always get a warm fuzzy feeling inside me whenever I see the St George's Cross--the flag of England, my roots.:) For example, walking down through Little Portugal on Dundas last night, I came across one family's home with the English flags everywhere (and a Canadian flag.)--home sweet home it felt like compared to the dominant culture of the area.

Bars--we're in Canada--so display the damn flag you morons!

But, as you noted there is no Canadian team in the competition. So, in all fairness, it can only be expected people would fly the flags of countries playing. I get a kick out of all the different flags.

I see Canadian flags all over the place. I can see maybe 5 or 6 out my window, sticking out of the roofs of buildings. And just as you see the St. George's Cross and feel warm and fuzzy, a Portuguese or Brazilian Canada will feel the same when they see their flag.

It really isn't much different from a bar flying a Calgary Flames flag instead of a Toronto Maple Leafs flag during the playoffs.

Oh, it's different. We're talking countries vs. sports teams. A sports team is like flying a Ford vs. Chevy flag. Or wearing a Nike vs Puma t-shirt. (I'd do neither, as advertising a brand for free isn't my idea of clothing etc.)

Mind you, I can't stand the current Canadian flag. The old one was much better.

The old one wasn't unique and got lost in the crowd. As far as flags go, it was crap.

The flags they're waving represent sports teams. The Brazilian flag represents the Brazilian effort in the world cup, the South African flag represents the South African effort, etc. They're not an "affront" to our nation, if anything they're a reinforcement of the principles on which modern Canadian society is based.

I do the same when asked, but because I am a visible minority when I am asked they ask again. I explain I was born here, but my parents are from ... Is it because I am a minority that people don't accept me as a Canadian? I consider myself fairly patriotic. I managed to get onto that mosaic of Canadians Molson did for the Olympics and hung outside their brewery.

People who are visible ethnic minorities always say that but I'm a white Canadian and when I reply that I'm Canadian, they always ask me what's your ethnicity or where is your family from. People are just curious where people come from whether they are white, black or brown.

My family has been in Canada over 100 years, so I just feel Canadian.

^Very true. I must admit I was taken aback when someone (not white) asked me recently where I was from.

Cana'duh!

I was just watching some stuff on tv yesterday and I remember seeing this thing about 1Malaysia. basically Malaysia is like Canada too and their citizens are often like, I'm Chinese-malaysian, indian-malaysian

but with this concept, the citizens are encouraged to just say, I'M MALAYSIAN!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1Malaysia

I actually wish we could do something like that here in Canada.. Coz i am actually sick of a lot of "Canadians" loving their home country first lol, not that there's anything wrong with that, but Canada deserves more love..having lived through the 1Malaysia/Satu Malaysia concept, from the inception, to the cheesy "1Malaysia" song, to the "Salam Satu Malaysia" at every event, to the "1Malaysia" logos and themes showing up everywhere, to the argument that "1Malaysia" was created by the same publicity company that created "One Israel" etc. etc. etc. - I am simply tired of 1Malaysia and wish to get back home to Canada.

Not "1Canada", not "multicultural-Canada", not "Quebec as a nation within a United Canada" .... just Canada.

Cheers, m

Civic or national pride has to come from within. It cannot be mandated, or created by having people parrot a phrase. Some cultures have a strong social pressure that demands of their citizens to loudly proclaim their national pride. Other nations, like Canada, mostly leave it up to the individual to decide what they want to feel. A person doesn't have to wave a flag to have pride... it is either something they have within or they don't.I am immensely proud of being a Canadian as I am proud of my mum who immigrated from Pakistan back in 1972 and my father's family who immigrated from Scotland via the US some generations before.

At the same time, I would like to have more to be proud of. Not events like the Olympics, or gold medals. Not 'engaging the world' as Ignatief is talking about. Not being a 'middle power' or a 'nation of peacekeepers' as some have taken to labeling Canada...

And certainly not 1Canada like 1Malaysia.

What I want from Canada are (in no particular order)


peace;
order;
good government (with a great deal more honesty);
friendly, understanding-not-just-tolerant people;
livable cities & rural communities;
good infrastructure;
strong education;
a resilient, eco-friendly and wise economy that welcomes workers from all over the world;
no more talk about having "Canadian experience" in a globalized world;
intelligent, creative people and plans to bring more in;
a whole lot of energy.


:banana:

I want to see all of the above manifested in (again in no particular order):


songs;
books & literature;
tv shows & movies;
art;
cutting-edge research;
leading the way economically;
museums;
'general pride' in Canada;
an improved government;
the creation opportunities for people in Canada and all over the world - by Canadians!


and yes, I would be happy to see Tim Hortons and Molson's all over the world.

I take every opportunity to be positive and proud about Canada - knowing that it can be improved with the support of Canadians.

Living in Malaysia I happily point out the "Filmed with the support of the Ontario/Canadian government tax credit" at the end of many TV shows here.

I regularly point out to my family that 3/4 of the programming on the Asian Food Channel is from the Food Network & HG TV. I tell everyone I know that Aldo and Bombardier and Club Monaco are originally Canadian. I was cheering when Roots came to Malaysia (though it didnt last long). And I often tell my friends that we should order pizza from "Canadian 2 for 1 Pizza" (which is the actual name of the shop).

When the Ice Hockey league held their championships recently, it was great to watch ice hockey and see that my Malaysian friends loved the game.

And for 1 July, the High Commission and a group of those same hockey players have imported a crate of Canadian beer & are making it available to everyone to celebrate Canada Day.

Not to mention, I help educate 400 Malaysian & international kids every year to get their OSSD and some of them go on to universities in Canada.

Honestly, Canada and Canadians have a lot to be proud of - but we can always have more to be prouder of.

Cheers, m

How about this fundamental thought: Canadian isn't a culture at all, it is a collection of cultures sharing a single nation and living in peace.Deep like Lake Superior

Cheers, m

I noticed some media outlets are coming out now, saying that people waving flags from their cars during the World Cup is "unpatriotic" or some bullsh1t like that.


I think that is definitely a bad attitude, although Canadians have nothing to say about it since they are the ones who shouted for the "Mosaic" culture.


What the heck are we, Americans?


Actually, Everyone knows Canadians are not Americans. (except the ones being sarcastic and say "Canada is 51nd state of the United States")
But I think, persistently pursuing to be different from America because it is "America" is one of the worst attitudes Canadians might have.
Americans are not perfect, and Canadians don't need to blindly follow them. (I personally think the stup*d imperial system (used only in US+(?)) and the environment that every individual can easily possess a gun for self-protection are godly horrible things)
But you can't simply ignore or reject the winning values of the most prosperous, the most economically rich, the most culturally successful thus abundant country in the world.

Who is calling for the patriotic waving of Canadian flags? The Sun? Sheila Copps? I think most Canadians are actually quite happy with their "mosaic" culture, and are not asking to trade it in.

When you really thing about it, there isn't much that is "patriotic" about waving flags anyway.

Who is calling for the patriotic waving of Canadian flags? The Sun? Sheila Copps? I think most Canadians are actually quite happy with their "mosaic" culture, and are not asking to trade it in.

Our government encourages the 'mosaic', but the data shows that within a generation or two there is no difference. Canada is just as much a melting pot as the United States. Immigrants assimilate into the ever changing dominant culture over time.

The only difference is that the dominant culture in the US and Canada may diverge as has been doing for the last 30 years.

Americans are not perfect, and Canadians don't need to blindly follow them. (I personally think the stup*d imperial system (used only in US+(?)) and the environment that every individual can easily possess a gun for self-protection are godly horrible things)
But you can't simply ignore or reject the winning values of the most prosperous, the most economically rich, the most culturally successful thus abundant country in the world.

Canada is fairly similar to the US. Our media is influenced by them, and everyone knows that the media raises the younger generation nowadays. But I'm a big believer that Canada needs to preserve our own ideals by not always giving in to corporate America just because it may be in our best economic interests.

But in my humble opinion.... imperial system>metric system :cheers2:

When you really thing about it, there isn't much that is "patriotic" about waving flags anyway.everytime Malaysia has it's "Independence Day" there is a lead up with lots of waving of the national flag, someone commissioning a national song (there is apparently one for every year - now 53 - of independence, according to wifey) and national flags on cars & taxis, apartment buildings, streetlights & lamp posts, banners, bunting etc.

A few days later, you start to see the flags that fell off the taxis and got run over, flags that were dropped on the street & walked over, flags torn by the wind & ignored etc.

For 5 years Ive kept a Canadian flag at my desk - not to wave it but to remind me of Canada. And there is a Malaysian flag beside it to remind me of where I am now.

But there is no point in waving the flag unless you understand what it really means.

Cheers, m

edited by Taller, Better

refer to the pm I have sent you.

ok

Thank you! :)

This stupid thread is still around? Canada doesn't need to follow any nation, we're doing better then fine here. Waving a flag doesn't make you patriotic, it's all a state of mind.

This stupid thread is still around? Canada doesn't need to follow any nation, we're doing better then fine here. Waving a flag doesn't make you patriotic, it's all a state of mind.

Word.