I am interested to hear how people think Phnom Penh can improve as a city overall, any ideas are welcome !! :)

Well, I think this is your good opportunity to lay down good public zoning laws. PP is still a small capital city compared to other large SEA cities, but growing rapidly nevertheless. It would be wise to make plans for the future growth now when the city is still small. Some examples that come to mind are

- Good grid-like network of streets. Organize your zoning into blocks with adequate width of the roads and pedestrian way surrounding those blocks.

- Leave spaces for public parks every few blocks around the city.

- Reserve areas along your river bank as public parks. Make it into a nice public area along the river where future generations can enjoy the view.

- If you think you will have a network of Sky Train like in Bangkok, make sure your streets are wide enough to accommodate its pillars in the future.

etc .. etc .. etc

Bangkok is a chaotic city at the moment from lack of good city planning in the past which results in traffic jam and loads of other problems. Although we have solved those problems somehow with several lines of Sky Train, Subway, BRT, express ways, etc., it would have been much easier and cheaper to solve them had the city been organized into blocks like US cities from the beginning.

It's like you are playing Sim City, if you know what I mean. Now you have your opportunity to get fundamental things right at the beginning. Get it right, and good luck !!

1. Agressive in improving the education level of Cambodians so that with better education and better pay, they will have higher spending power to increase the demand of better housing in Phnom Penh.
2. All power cables to go underground to clear the airspace for high-rise buildings or future skytrain.
3. Propose skytrains once spending power is higher. Currently the motorbikes and buses are quite cheap.
4. Setup more common parking lots for cars so that cars will not park at roadside. However, there are plans in place that are not welcome by the shopowners. Education has to be given to them to encourage them that it is for the benefits of Phnom Penh.
5. Have a amusement park near Mekong river with integrated Casino (e.g. Naga). To increase the tourism
6. Have more trees and plants.
7. Educate and train the "beggars" to work. They are unsightly for the tourists.
8. As what "Munich dweller" mentioned, the grid network for the road and pedestrain way has to be improved.

^^ I rarely see any beggars on the streets.

I agree with all of the above, but would like to add " more trees and other plants". Doing so will make the city look more presentable and Eco-friendly.:)

^^ I rarely see any beggars on the streets.

That would be good,

Big question SeeMacau !

Hygiene :
water treatment plant

clean the city :
put a lot of dustbin
must severely tax people or tourist that throw something down
Each store is responsible to clean his sidewalk

Need :
school, university
fast internet
security

Relaxation :
public park
kidgarten
recreation area

traffic :
less pollution
clean sidewalk
lantern night
map on the street
badge on the street
public transportation (only on the main axes for now)
parking

I think I forget a lot of things

^^ I rarely see any beggars on the streets.

There are less beggars in PP because poor people CAN work ! They are free to work.

In rich country, you are not free to work ! You need degrees or money !
It is forbidden to people to sell something in the street. So poor people are prisonner !! Government must give aid to them !!! Law is made to protect. But too much law imprison people, espacially poor people. So you must be in the system or you die. :ohno:

^^ They were trained by the charity organizations, this included all the war victims.

My suggestions
* Reduce monthly fees for the Internet service
* No more power blackout
* Cut the cost of Electricity and Water

For Phnom Penh to improve as a city that all may love first we much obey the law. No person or group is above the law. The rule of law means that everyone (citizens and leaders) must obey the law. Government must obey the law. No one is above the law. Phnom Penh will grow Cambodia will improve this is the time Khmer Dermbey Khmer

I move some of the posts to this new thread - ''Social issues in Cambodia'', the beggars in Thailand has nothing to do with Phnom Penh.

here is the link:
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p=59119077#post59119077

For me, I believe the best city must be eco-friendly! Therefore, the municipality, citizens and government shall:
- plant more trees! Trees are simply cheap and practical!
- issue a regulation which requires the houseowners to renovate, or at least repaint it within specifi time
- don't hang the clothes or put ugly stuffs in d front of d house
- reduce electricy cost (Water is comparatively cheap and d company just got reward as d best and world class company, so it's totally okay)
- don't throw d gabbage everywhere so it needs to brainwash the citizens and tourists
- respect d law, particularly traffic life
- Smile, smile and smile to welcome tourists and local cambodian!
- make ways for new develpment but also preserve cultural heritage
- build more parks, zoo and recreation centres!
- last but not least, citizens must have strong commitment, their paricipation is inherently needed.

be aggressive in teaching Mandarin and English, forth language Japanese or French

For me, I believe the best city must be eco-friendly! Therefore, the municipality, citizens and government shall:
- plant more trees! Trees are simply cheap and practical!
- issue a regulation which requires the houseowners to renovate, or at least repaint it within specifi time
- don't hang the clothes or put ugly stuffs in d front of d house
- reduce electricy cost (Water is comparatively cheap and d company just got reward as d best and world class company, so it's totally okay)
- don't throw d gabbage everywhere so it needs to brainwash the citizens and tourists
- respect d law, particularly traffic life
- Smile, smile and smile to welcome tourists and local cambodian!
- make ways for new develpment but also preserve cultural heritage
- build more parks, zoo and recreation centres!
- last but not least, citizens must have strong commitment, their paricipation is inherently needed.

Very good list! What I was thinking exactly and more...

There are less beggars in PP because poor people CAN work ! They are free to work.

In rich country, you are not free to work ! You need degrees or money !
It is forbidden to people to sell something in the street. So poor people are prisonner !! Government must give aid to them !!! Law is made to protect. But too much law imprison people, espacially poor people. So you must be in the system or you die. :ohno:


It is not totally true that in rich countries people are not free to work. People are indeed free to work. Most people that don't work are lazy. You don't need degrees to work. There are lots of jobs that don't require degrees, but of course, they pay less. But, it is still a job. You need money to work? Come on, if you have money, why would you work? You are right though that the government supports help the poor, but it makes them lazy that don't want to work anymore. However, nobody forces people to be in the system. You don't need to take the aids from the government. Go and find a job and support yourself. Of course, nobody can escape paying taxes to the government.

It is not totally true that in rich countries people are not free to work. People are indeed free to work. Most people that don't work are lazy. You don't need degrees to work. There are lots of jobs that don't require degrees, but of course, they pay less. But, it is still a job. You need money to work? Come on, if you have money, why would you work? You are right though that the government supports help the poor, but it makes them lazy that don't want to work anymore. However, nobody forces people to be in the system. You don't need to take the aids from the government. Go and find a job and support yourself. Of course, nobody can escape paying taxes to the government.

Sorry, if you misunderstood. It is my fault. I didn't be explicite. But it would be too long to say all in one sentence :-(.

When I said we are not free to work, I mean poor people uniquely, and particularly beggars people.
In Cambodia, poor people can work in the street/or on a beach, more easily than in Rich countries.
Are you surprised to see young women selling Coconut/fruits or cake on Sihanoukville's beachs ? No. It is normal. All people sell something everywhere to survive.
So a beggar can work selling natural ressource to survive and even become rich. It is normal to work when we can.

In rich country, it is forbidden for someone to sell something like that. Police get them at police station and put them taxes.
Why ? Because there are laws we must respect. Business laws ... It protect citizen, business... and the SYSTEM itself.

In Europe and elsewhere, to sell just one banana :-) in a street, you must pay TVA = 19,6% on this banana (european Taxes). To pay TVA, you must create a company. So, you must have money to create this company and so one.
Well, it is very difficult for a simple beggar to sell something in the street in Rich country ! It is even forbidden. So, they must work without selling. So, the only way is to have a job in stores, companies...

But, it is difficult for most of them. They have no papers, no home address. So, companies refuses to hire them because law ask their identity and address.
So, it is difficult for companies to hire poor people/beggars, even illegal. So, there is so few solution for a beggars to make fortune.

In poor country like Cambodia. People are free to live their life naturally.
When you see people selling, cooking something in the street. it is normal. Life is natural here. So, less stress.

So, it is a possible explaination on the question "why it seems they are less beggars at Phnom Penh"
Because beggars can work.

Sorry, if you misunderstood. It is my fault. I didn't be explicite. But it would be too long to say all in one sentence :-(.

When I said we are not free to work, I mean poor people uniquely, and particularly beggars people.
In Cambodia, poor people can work in the street/or on a beach, more easily than in Rich countries.
Are you surprised to see young women selling Coconut/fruits or cake on Sihanoukville's beachs ? No. It is normal. All people sell something everywhere to survive.
So a beggar can work selling natural ressource to survive and even become rich. It is normal to work when we can.

In rich country, it is forbidden for someone to sell something like that. Police get them at police station and put them taxes.
Why ? Because there are laws we must respect. Business laws ... It protect citizen, business... and the SYSTEM itself.

In Europe and elsewhere, to sell just one banana :-) in a street, you must pay TVA = 19,6% on this banana (european Taxes). To pay TVA, you must create a company. So, you must have money to create this company and so one.
Well, it is very difficult for a simple beggar to sell something in the street in Rich country ! It is even forbidden. So, they must work without selling. So, the only way is to have a job in stores, companies...

But, it is difficult for most of them. They have no papers, no home address. So, companies refuses to hire them because law ask their identity and address.
So, it is difficult for companies to hire poor people/beggars, even illegal. So, there is so few solution for a beggars to make fortune.

In poor country like Cambodia. People are free to live their life naturally.
When you see people selling, cooking something in the street. it is normal. Life is natural here. So, less stress.

So, it is a possible explaination on the question "why it seems they are less beggars at Phnom Penh"
Because beggars can work.


I understand your points now. It is very different in Canada and the US though. People can sell stuffs from their backyard. Beggars in Canada are mostly lazy people. They have papers and addresses, and they can work legally, but just don't want to work.

I can see why the companies in Europe don't hire those "poor" that you are talking about. It is because most of them are illegal poor immigrants. It is normal to any country that has immigration law. I hope Cambodia one day has the same law so that it can protect jobs and anything else for its people. Any illegal immigrants should arrested and deported. At least this is what I think.

For me, I believe the best city must be eco-friendly! Therefore, the municipality, citizens and government shall:
- plant more trees! Trees are simply cheap and practical!
- issue a regulation which requires the houseowners to renovate, or at least repaint it within specifi time
- don't hang the clothes or put ugly stuffs in d front of d house
- reduce electricy cost (Water is comparatively cheap and d company just got reward as d best and world class company, so it's totally okay)
- don't throw d gabbage everywhere so it needs to brainwash the citizens and tourists
- respect d law, particularly traffic life
- Smile, smile and smile to welcome tourists and local cambodian!
- make ways for new develpment but also preserve cultural heritage
- build more parks, zoo and recreation centres!
- last but not least, citizens must have strong commitment, their paricipation is inherently needed.

I Agree.

Phnong Penh is quite neat. I think the city's plan is way more orderly and organize than Vietnam's cities. For now, the city should add more skyscrappers and upgrade new roads.

Phnom Penh was very neat and organize even back in the 1960's

When Lee Kuan Yew, the former prime minister of Singapore visited Phnom Penh in the 1960s, he made this remark to his host: “I hope, one day, my city will look like this”.

I really dont understand why Cambodia becomes like this! So sad.....

^^ Because of war !!

A big thanks to the French colonial urban plannings, they made Phnom Penh such a nice and organize place to live and stay :)

^^ Because of war !!

A big thanks to the French colonial urban plannings, they made Phnom Penh such a nice and organize place to live and stay :)

Yeah, I think Phnom Penh map looks very organize like most of Europe cities.

Phnom Penh Map in 1928(plan?) Looks very organize blog by blog.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Xe_4UwSJDAQ/Stld0KjI6wI/AAAAAAAAAAU/k5WgriVmmoc/s1600/cent-2.jpg


Master plan of P.P by 2020
http://www.phnompenh.gov.kh/english/Master_Plans/Picture6.jpg

Since I was children, I've always heard Phnom Penh, and espacially Battambang was very beautiful. All town and street was always clean. People was so nice and love the king.

After the war, people that came back to the country notice that a lot of thing have change. Less clean, house are built on the house, on the sidewalk ... So the town and people change.

I hope the country will recover at less the beauty of the past.

^^ yea, I agree. I hope Cambodia soon will recover.

I really dont understand why Cambodia becomes like this! So sad.....

That's what happened to Saigon and Hanoi too , they have to reorder the cities from the beginning !

Phnom Penh was very neat and organize even back in the 1960's

When Lee Kuan Yew, the former prime minister of Singapore visited Phnom Penh in the 1960s, he made this remark to his host: “I hope, one day, my city will look like this”.

yeah , Phnom Penh was the Pearl of South East Asia

This thread is titled "How can PP be improved as a city"

Interestingly I hardly see any discussion here related to that matter but recounting the glory of PP in the past days. Is it a lil off topic?

^^ that relevency, Confucius quote " learn the past if you are to define the future" are you saying Confucius is wrong , This quote was also used by Sun Tzu, Buddha, Laozi are you saying that people such as Buddha are wrong and saying irrelevent stuff?????

BTW the word improve is dependent on a set convention which in this sense is the past as QUOTED by LaoZi founder of Taoism of China

Master plan of P.P by 2020
http://www.phnompenh.gov.kh/english/Master_Plans/Picture6.jpg

I have a completed, bigger version of this master plan with me.

I am in doubt this plan will go ahead. The city is now growing toward the other side of the Tonle Sap River (Choy Changva), not moving inland, and it is unlikely the city will grow 4-5 times bigger in the next 10 years. This requires a lot of new infrastructures (building new roads, water supply systems, electricities, etc) and it surely cost a lot of money.

My suggestion is to improve all the current infrastructure in Phnom Penh first before any attempt to enlarge the size of the city.

Please stay on topic !!

PP need to improve all the current infrastructure before enlarge the size of the city?
I thought the government is already doing that?

I think "The Question" we should ask first is :
- What image (we want) does the city will give in the future ?

If we know what we want, we could work for it. But if we don't know where we go, so we can go everywhere.

Phnom Penh has its identity, its past we can't remove. We must considere it and build with for the new Phnom Penh.

Cambodia needs a garbage disposal

- Infrastructure
- Schools
- Hospitals in the Town and in the Village
- House homeless for orphans

^^ there are garbage disposals but not many, in Kompong Cham they have regular rubbish collectors thats why this provincial city is very clean

PP need to improve all the current infrastructure before enlarge the size of the city?
I thought the government is already doing that?

Yes, the government is working on the infrastructures, but it is moving slow at this current speed and need to be accelerate. This can be done by public-private partnerships, or attract more private sector investors to bid on the infrastructure project - the skytrain is one of the very good example.

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I think the list is long...

1. Pay official decently so they (like those that work in custom) don't beg tourist for $1-2. Or police buy its position so they earn money on specific location on the street. You need a functioning police force, not fake police that are scare of rich people.
2. Remove all those that don't follow traffic law.
3. Remove all those that illegally park. Hence lots of security car park.
4. Remove all government official that are above the law.
5. Improve power, no black out.
6. Improve internet access speed and price.
7. Internet banking / HK Octopus card payment system.
8. Give everyone a bin so its rubbish is dispose correctly, prohibit poor people go through rubbish and mess things up.
9. Remove all cars that are too old, anything that is unsafe on the road.
10. Create decent market place, for small fees, so people can sell in allocated area, instead of anywhere they want.
11. Remove overhead wires, there is no need to have a millions wires on the street, just few main cables, and and redirect into each building.
12. For construction work (individual or government), people can not just dump construction materials on the street.
13. Find a way to control so people can not just have wedding or funeral on the street and block the roads.
14. Create a decent inner city public transport services, too many of those bike and fake dok dok (dok dok should be tricycle, not a bike tow a tailor) that don't follow traffic rules are too dangerous.
15. Make heaps of public toilets, no peeing in public places.

etc, etc.

I have a few ideas...mayb I'm wrong sorry

First of all, the govt has to prevent the disorder n unlawful buildings from happening again so that they won't need to deal with it again later.
Second, they need to restore the old building n organize it. remove the unlawful building or relocate them to a better place....
Third, create n enforce a better regulation on house building such as how big the road should b, the windows(the air flowing in), the emergency exit sth like that....etc

totally agrees......but it hard to do, easy to said.....:)

Nothing is easy, better things are always long and hard to make.
People just need to begin the work, organize and do. Go go go.

totally agrees......but it hard to do, easy to said.....:)

Sure I do agree. Easy to say than do :)
Anyway, Phnom Penh city hall has many well knowledgeable ppl to do the job. Moreover, there are a lot of help from other countries ( France n Japan) and NGOs as well. I think the problem is money and a bit of human resources..... Everything is money... let see what will happen...B positive for PP :)

^^I always stay in the positive side of PP, but there are things that I can't never say,........but anyway, hope the city improve in the next 10 years....:)

I have a few ideas...mayb I'm wrong sorry

First of all, the govt has to prevent the disorder n unlawful buildings from happening again so that they won't need to deal with it again later.
Second, they need to restore the old building n organize it. remove the unlawful building or relocate them to a better place....
Third, create n enforce a better regulation on house building such as how big the road should b, the windows(the air flowing in), the emergency exit sth like that....etc

A problem is, you can almost always bribe your way out.

I agree, it is a common problem, the footpath is almost always illegally occupied by the owner of the house or flat. It may be alright to park there, but is not right to use it as a business, or even demolished the stair inside the building, and rebuilt a steel stairs on the footpath.

Establishing building code will be difficult, even HK has not yet get them right.

ok instead of creating a new thread ill use this one, after trying to dig through history, i think we need sewerage the most

I think we need more green areas with trees. The current parks are just grass and flowers.

We need more green place, parts, trees... And we need to build more office or condominium towers xD

We need more green place, parts, trees... And we need to build more office or condominium towers xD

With the current policies, it is hard to do both.

Put public transport in place, all major cities has some sort of public transport (which may sometimes be inadequate), but PP doesn't have any.

Garbage collection need to be improve, they should go around and identify public dumping place, cleanup.