When I talked to Iorio last Wednesday (at the parade. I met Mayor Baker too and spoke with him, but much more briefly), I brought that up with her, and she said that they were actively looking into finding ways of funding the trolley sooner. Don't know what that means though. Probably just some sunshine getting blown up my ass. ;)



Sorry I wasn't around here for so long, my web connection was fried since last Sunday, plus I was out of town the past few days.




BTW, did you guys hear about the 1.2 million sq ft mixed-use proposal near Ray-Jay? Sounds like there will be a few midrises. There is also a low-rise office building U/C in the Tampa Bay Office Park, fronting MLK near Himes. Whoopty doo...:)

Firm Has Active Plans For Site

By DAVE SIMANOFF
dsimanoff@tampatrib.com

TAMPA - A local development group is looking to sign on investors and tenants for a massive new office, hotel and entertainment center near Raymond James Stadium and Legends Field in Tampa.
Keystone Ventures LLC, based in Tampa, said Monday that it wants to build a $240 million complex, called Tampa Sport Centre, at the northwest corner of Dale Mabry Highway and Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. Boulevard. The firm hasn't completed its purchase of the property. Nor has it received city approvals to begin construction.

Keystone Ventures's proposal calls for:

* A 160,000-square-foot conference center.

* About 150,000 square feet of professional office space.

* A sports medicine, research, nutrition and exercise science center.

* A fitness, training and rehabilitation center.

* A luxury hotel with up to 300 rooms, and a spa.

* A sports entertainment complex with restaurant and interactive games.

* A retail center.

* More than 200 condominium units.

At 1.2 million square feet, the proposed complex would be almost as large as Tampa's International Plaza mall.

Greg Neal, managing partner of Keystone Ventures, said that he is talking to companies that would want to move to Tampa Sport Centre and to investors looking to back the project. The company, he said, has a contract to buy Century Buick, Isuzu and Kia, an auto dealership on the 15-acre site targeted for the complex.

``It's not a done deal,'' Neal said. ``It is in development, and we're making excellent progress with qualified tenants and investors of a national and international scope. We're quite confident that all those details will be completed over this summer.''

Neal said he wants Tampa Sport Centre to serve as a resource for local athletes and a destination for fans.

``We are the home of world champions, and we are an area that is rich with professional athletes that have chosen to make this their home,'' he said. ``And all of us who have active lifestyles need help with our fitness, our nutrition and our training.''

Neal said he would like to start construction on the new complex in 2005 and open it in 2007.

Mayor Pam Iorio could not be reached for comment late Monday.

This has got to be one of the weirdest plans I have heard in a long time. The location is a bit tight roadwise, there is nothing else around it to feed it. The theme is really bizarre. Condos? Who the hell will live there?

If he can pull it off, I will be amazed. I think something much smaller and more retial will drop in there, if the dealerships are removed, which is an open question

The article site (which I think is useful for legal issues and to go back and read later):
http://www.tampatrib.com/Business/MGBSSGFCHVD.html

Remember, Drew park is a redevelopment zone. That means they're getting some real breaks from the city. I imagine that helps the numbers a good bit. Besides, the site is very near to Ray-Jay, Al Lopez Park, Legends Field, HCC, Tampa Bay Business Park, and the St Joseph's Hospital development area. Lest we forget that the Glazers claim that they intend to develop the land between Ray-Jay and Al Lopez Park after their training facility is done.

Remember, the city is highly interested in improving that stretch of Dale Mabry, which is why they're out there right now doing various landscape work, as well as a new trail at the park parallel to Dale Mabry, which will really help tie the park, Dale Mabry and that cancer plaza thing together.

The project sounds a bit hokey, but I'm optimistic that something better than more car dealerships will get built.

I get teh reasoning. I don't but that it will fly, but it might . . .

Imagine an oasis for athletes
A high-concept development would capitalize on Tampa's winning reputation and training-friendly weather.
By SCOTT BARANCIK, Times Staff Writer
Published June 16, 2004

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


TAMPA - In the shadow of Legends Field and Raymond James Stadium, Greg Neal envisions the rough equivalent of an Olympic Village.

The Tampa Sports Centre would offer professional and amateur athletes an array of services, including sports psychology, rehabilitation and training facilities, nutritional counseling, career management, apparel and a spa.

On-campus television and radio studios would broadcast interviews with visiting athletes, who would reside steps away at the Centre's hotel or condominiums.

For those seeking a spiritual workout, the 15-acre, 1.2-million-square-foot campus would include a chapel.

"There's nothing like it in any metropolitan market in North America," said Neal, managing partner of Keystone Ventures LLC in Tampa.

Though Neal said it was too early to cite names, he said a variety of sports teams, leagues, trainers, hotel chains, retailers and investors have expressed interest or made commitments to his proposed $240-million development. Several Christian organizations are interested in managing the complex's counseling, career management and broadcast operations. Neal and colleagues briefed Tampa Mayor Pam Iorio on the project idea this spring.

Many high-concept real estate developments don't pan out, of course. For a reminder, one need travel only a few miles south from the proposed site to another $240-million, 1.2-million-square-foot project: Tampa Bay 1. Developers of that office/retail/residential development have been promising to break ground there since at least 2001, after spending millions of dollars on land acquisition and infrastructure.

But Neal said the Tampa Sports Centre would capitalize on the bay area's weather as well as its growing reputation as a first-rate sports town. Local teams recently won the Stanley Cup and Super Bowl. Out-of-town athletes are building homes here for the off-season. Located at the northwest corner of N Dale Mabry Highway and W Martin Luther King Jr. Boulevard, the center would sit across the street from Legends Field and catty-corner from Raymond James Stadium.

Professional athletes needn't be the only customers. Minor league and college teams might send players to the center for training or evaluation. Triathletes and competitive amateurs could avail themselves of the services. Even weekend golf or tennis players with lots of disposable income might come, said Neal, whose other projects include Safari Ventures, a Tampa travel company, and the construction of motorsports complexes.

Ralph Ghioto III has a great deal of faith in Neal.

About a year ago, Ghioto and his father hired Neal to come up with the "highest and best use" for the land beneath their Tampa car dealership, which they plan to move to cheaper real estate. Neal and colleagues returned with a proposal to create the Tampa Sports Centre. Now, Keystone Ventures is buying the Ghiotos' roughly 10-acre property, home to Century Buick Isuzu Kia, in installments. Both parties declined to name the price.

"If the project ends up being what it is conceptualized to be now," Ghioto said, "it is something our family could be proud of."

- Scott Barancik can be reached at barancik@sptimes.com or 727 893-8751.

[Last modified June 16, 2004, 01:00:39]
http://www.sptimes.com/2004/06/16/Business/Imagine_an_oasis_for_.shtml

That article is much better at describing thier intent. I agree, the project is WAY too conceptual. This sports angle should be but a portion of the project's purpose, not its sole reason for justification. I actually agree with them that this sort of concept would work locally, but I think that they would be very wise to tone down that portion of the project, and then perhaps work to expand the "sports" stuff at a later time if the first phase gets a warm reception. I feel that things like this take time to catch on, and can't just be "manufactured" in one fell swoop like this.

The good thing in all of this is that it's quite easy to call a mixed-use project a "sports mecca", as it is to call it a "town center", or whatever else they want to call it. The good thing seems to be that the current land owners have a bit of an ego (or family pride), and want to see something "grand" built on the land they're selling. I guess now we'll get to see if the market actually wants something like this.



Btw, a 1.2 million sq ft project on only 15 acres of land will without question have to go vertical. I would expect to see multiple structures over 10 stories.

LATEST NEWS
4:57 PM EDT Tuesday
Developer announces new project in the Channel District
Ventana Tampa LLC in Tampa announced its plans to build an 84-unit mixed-use development in the Channel District.

Located on the northwest corner of Kennedy Boulevard and Channelside Drive, Ventana will include a ground-level floor of retail and commercial, with the condominium units above.

Residences will range from 1,100 to more than 2,600 square feet and will be priced from the mid-$200,000s.

The Ventana sales center is scheduled to open in September.

So, whats the news with the Four Seasons?

Temple Terrace Envisions Downtown, Fresh Image
By MICHAEL DUNN mdunn@tampatrib.com
Published: Jun 20, 2004




TEMPLE TERRACE - Think of it as the small town with very big dreams.
Temple Terrace has embarked on the largest civic project in its 79-year history - a 207-acre redevelopment that eventually will reshape the community's commercial core along 56th Street.

Although the redevelopment area includes residential and commercial areas, the initial focus is southeast of Bullard Parkway and 56th Street, where the city intends to build a modern town center. It's the site of two blighted strip malls, which the city has purchased in hopes of creating a real downtown, something it never has had.

Temple Terrace is a tree- splashed, suburban community of about 22,000 along the Hillsborough River. Many people know it only as a collection of run-down strip malls they zip past on their way to Busch Gardens, officials say.

The redevelopment plan is intended to change the city's image - and its future.


`Enthusiasm Is So Intense'

On Saturday, the city wrapped up a weeklong series of charettes, or interactive public workshops, aimed at drawing residents into the planning process. Since mid- May, more than 1,000 people have participated in workshops or attended meetings, said Neal Payton, a principal with Torti Gallas and Partners, the city's Maryland-based planning firm.

``The enthusiasm is so intense, you can't start fast enough,'' said Payton, whose firm has hosted charettes across the nation.

The term ``charette'' is derived from the French word for ``little cart.'' In Paris during the 19th century, professors at Ecole des Beaux-Arts circulated with little carts to collect final drawings from their students, according to The Town Paper, a development publication. Students often would jump on the charette to put finishing touches on their work minutes before deadline.

In similar fashion, Torti Gallas has incorporated residents' last-minute wishes into a conceptual draft, unveiled Saturday, that will evolve into a master design during the next few months. The city will hire a developer next year to implement the plan.

Many residents say the city's future is at stake.

``It's make or break for the city,'' said Paula Venus, who has lived in Temple Terrace 27 years. ``The city is going down, and it needs something to bring it back up. I think it'll just bring the city up to where it needs to be - the 21st century.''

Residents envision a bustling town square with shops, cafes, nightclubs, clothing stores and bookstores. A new city hall and performing arts center also are planned.

Upscale condominiums and town houses also are on the drawing board, including - possibly - an 18-story condominium tower.

Audience members gasped when Payton mentioned the ``unabashedly tall'' structure Thursday night. A pair of three-story buildings are the tallest in town.

``If you're going to do it, do it,'' Payton said. The idea is to let people know they have entered ``a new place, a better place.''

The city has spent nearly $20 million on property and could spend $7 million more on additional parcels before development begins, officials said, so there is some financial risk involved.

But residents say the alternative could be worse, simply letting the city die, storefront by storefront, building by building.


Gaining Momentum

Redevelopment Director Ralph Bosek has reached out to companies, organizations and civic groups across the Tampa Bay area to generate partnerships for the project.

Momentum, he said, is gaining.

``We want our community to be identified,'' Bosek said. ``When you cross that river, we want you to know you're in Temple Terrace. Right now when you cross the river, you're just in another commercial strip-center district. We want to make a statement.''

It's a statement Temple Terrace hopes will be heard across the country, making the city a destination community.

``Sometimes the city has to be bold and take the initiative to make this a better place to live,'' Bosek said. ``It's the future of Temple Terrace. It's critical that we succeed.''


Reporter Michael Dunn can be reached at (813) 977-2854, Ext. 28.

http://tampatrib.com/floridametronews/MGBBW2GJOVD.html

Loft Construction Won't Cool During Hot Summer Months
By JANIS D. FROELICH jfroelich@tampatrib.com
Published: Jun 20, 2004




TAMPA - Instead of taking a summer break from Channel District loft activity because of road construction, developers are proceeding as planned.
Bill Ware has finalized design plans for his Ventana development. The Place at Channelside is set to open its Discovery Center today. The Towers of Channelside has 250 reservations for its 260 planned units. Grand Central at Kennedy is offering a mixed- use, 370-unit condominium development, and plans to open a sales center at the end of June. And Victory Lofts plans to complete its 89 units by December.

Meanwhile, the Tampa Hillsborough Expressway Authority plans to take down the Kennedy Boulevard viaduct in 30 days, spokeswoman Perry Dawn Brown said.

The viaduct, an eyesore in the middle of this booming residential growth, is being removed, Brown said, to make way for a landscaped, six-lane highway that will bring one- way traffic to and from Brandon.

The Meridian Street Gateway will mean the Channel District will become the grand entrance to downtown Tampa, developers say.

``I think that's been a big selling point,'' said Richard Sacchi, president of the Towers of Channelside. ``Our buyers want to be where the action is.''

Sacchi said construction should begin on the twin 30- story towers in January or February.

``We sold 250 units in 13 days,'' he said, noting the project is opposite the Channelside entertainment/restaurant complex.

The Towers of Channelside also will include five retail spaces, four of which are sold. These will bring a coffee shop, dry cleaners, fitness center, deli and a sushi place to the area.

``We wanted neighborhood retail, not something competing with Channelside,'' Sacchi said.

The 84 units at Ventana also will enjoy a key location at 1112 Channelside Drive at the north corner of Kennedy Boulevard, opposite a streetcar stop.

``About 60 percent of the project will be glass so owners will have lots of open space and windows to enjoy the views,'' Ware said.

A fourth-floor terrace level, where units surround the swimming pool, will feature private patios.

``People can actually live out there,'' Ware said. ``It will be big enough for a table and four chairs.''

Ware plans a sales center for Ventana, which means windows in Spanish, in September, and expects to begin construction next year.

Developer Fida H. Sirdar has renovated one of the warehouses on his 2.2 acres between 12th Street and Channelside Drive to showcase The Place at Channelside.

The sales center will offer 256 units to be built around a courtyard. Residents will also enjoy a pet park on the fifth level. On the street level, plans are in the works for retail and art galleries.

Grand Central at Kennedy is finishing a two-bedroom model near the Kennedy viaduct. The project will include retail stores, office space, an art gallery and community theater, Mercury Advisors developer Ken Stoltenberg announced recently.

Victory Lofts has four penthouses left, said Nick Pavonetti, who is overseeing The Beck Group's two-building project. The four-story Model T building is a renovation of an old structure, and the seven-story Victory Building is new. Both are located at the corner of 12th and Whiting streets.

Pavonetti said one of the penthouses will be kept to serve as a model unit for a future residential project in downtown Tampa or the Channel District.

``We couldn't be more pleased with this project,'' he said.


Reporter Janis D. Froelich can be reached at (813) 259-7143.
http://tampatrib.com/News/MGBBGI4IOVD.html

Condo Conversion
By DAVE SIMANOFF dsimanoff@tampatrib.com
Published: Jun 20, 2004




TAMPA - The extended home sales boom and historically low interest rates have tilted a lot of erstwhile renters in favor of home ownership.
It's not just the people who rent but the properties as well.

Apartment complex owners across the Tampa Bay area are converting rental units into condominiums for sale, capitalizing on the red-hot housing market at a time when interest in rental properties - particularly high-end rentals - is waning.

The trend means more options for prospective home buyers. It's also creating opportunities for local developers and bringing investors who specialize in such condominium conversions to the Tampa Bay area for the first time.

``I just think that the condo market is so hot right now that people are trying to jump on it,'' said Cindy Taylor, head of Tampa-based CKT Development Co.

CKT is building ParkCrest Harbour Island, a 336-unit building along the Garrison Channel in downtown. The ParkCrest was originally planned as an apartment complex, but Taylor said she and her investors decided during construction to convert the project into condominiums to take advantage of buyer interest.

Sales began six weeks ago. Only two units - four-bedroom condominiums, both priced about $800,000 - were available as of Wednesday.

``We had high expectations,'' Taylor said. ``We beat them all.''

The ParkCrest will be complete by the end of the year. Most condominium conversions involve properties that are established apartment complexes: 345 Bayshore on Tampa's tony Bayshore Boulevard was an apartment complex for three years before its conversion began in 2001. In Clearwater, 880 Mandalay Beach stood as an apartment complex for more than 40 years before it was bought in 2003 to be converted.

The top five condominium conversion projects in the Bay area account for a quarter-billion dollars of investment here, according to research by commercial real estate services firm Cushman & Wakefield.

More than 2,500 apartment units in the Bay area were converted into condos last year. This year, 2,201 units have been converted, Cushman & Wakefield says.

Vesna Vrcel, a breast pathologist at the H. Lee Moffitt Cancer Center & Research Institute and an assistant professor at the University of South Florida, is among the buyers fueling the trend. She said her family bought a three-bedroom, two- bathroom condominium at 345 Bayshore because it reminded them of their last home, in Manhattan, N.Y.

``For us, it was really important to have this sense of urban living,'' she said. ``We looked for something in downtown and in Hyde Park, but we really liked this high-rise building.''

Vrcel moved into 345 Bayshore in October 2002 with husband Ranko Precip and their daughter, Hana. The family recently added a new member: a King Charles Spaniel puppy named Bentley.

``For us, having a view and a balcony and being able to see the city lights is something very important,'' she said. ``It is magnificent. It is priceless.''


Economics 101

The sudden rush of condo conversions in the Bay area isn't too difficult to explain: It could have been lifted directly out of a textbook as an example of the laws of supply and demand.

Right now, many people are looking for residential properties to buy because interest rates are low and because they see real estate as a better investment than anything offered on Wall Street, experts say.

The surge in demand is driving a national housing boom. The National Association of Realtors reported a record 6.1 million single-family homes were sold last year, and the association predicts 2004 will set another record with nearly 6.2 million sales.

Meanwhile, the National Association of Home Builders said nearly 1.1 million new homes were sold last year, also a record.

With so many buyers clamoring for homes, investors are buying apartment complexes and reselling the units as condominiums.

Byron L. Moger, a senior director at Cushman & Wakefield specializing in apartment sales, said investors do a lot of homework to find a property suitable for a condo conversion. They must study the local housing market and look at what buyers are paying for comparable properties in the area.

The investor must also consider how long it will take to sell all the units. A handful of state laws are designed to protect renters, allowing them to renew their leases for a limited time. Other laws require that renters be given the first opportunity to buy a unit.

About 10 percent to 15 percent of renters typically buy a unit when their property is converted to condominiums, Moger said.

Expenses for investors include renovations and improvements throughout the property. The amount varies for every project. Marketing costs usually come to about $5,000 for each unit, Moger said.

Different investors have different expectations for returns. Large national firms with a lot of overhead might hope for a $5 million to $10 million profit for each property.

The trend has attracted many kinds of investors. Some are national firms that have recently set their sights on the Bay area. Some are apartment developers looking to sell properties in the most profitable manner, and some are local entrepreneurs trying to capitalize on the housing boom.

The conversion boom is also being fueled by investors and home buyers in search of bargains, said Toni Everett, a Tampa-based real estate broker specializing in luxury home and condo sales.

``It's true almost everywhere, but especially in the south end of Tampa, that land is becoming more valuable and houses are becoming more expensive,'' she said. ``People who want to spend less, or who want less to worry about, are now going condo.''

The condo conversion boom doesn't mean the end of apartments in the Bay area. The number of apartments built each year outnumbers the number of units converted into condominiums, and many apartment owners won't sell their properties for conversion because they depend upon the regular income from renters, Cushman & Wakefield's Moger said.


`The American Dream'

The condo conversion boom in the Bay area began in 2000 when New York-based Crescent Heights of America bought Island Walk and Island Place on Tampa's Harbour Island for $59.2 million.

Crescent Heights is one of the largest condo conversion companies in the United States, with a portfolio that covers the country from New York to Los Angeles. The company saw the Bay area as a market where apartment complexes suitable for conversion were available and affordable and where demand for housing was high.

``I believe that Tampa is relatively low priced compared to the country,'' said Shay Mayron, the company's regional manager.

Crescent Heights sold all 516 units at Island Walk and Island Place in less than a year and a half.

The company's subsequent projects in the area sold out even quicker. Crescent Heights bought 880 Mandalay, a 350- unit apartment complex on Clearwater Beach, in July for $46.3 million. Four-fifths of the units were bought within a few days, Mayron said. The complex will soon sport a new name: Regatta Beach Club.

Crescent Heights' third project is the conversion of part of ParkCrest Innisbrook, an apartment complex built several years ago by CKT Development.

The company's business strategy: buy and convert high- end luxury apartment complexes where the cost of a mortgage payment would be about the same as rent, Mayron said.

``We want to give buyers the American dream and pride of ownership,'' he said. ``If they're renting today, and they can add a few bucks and own, that's good.''

Crescent Heights might have been the first to test the conversion market in the Tampa area, but it wasn't the only one for long.

The Bradford Group bought 345 Bayshore, a 220-unit building that opened in 1998, for $41.2 million. DelAmerican, another national company, bought the Grand Bellagio at Baywatch, a new 311-unit property in Clearwater Beach, in February 2003 for $55.4 million.

Zom Inc., an Orlando-based developer that owns several apartment complexes in the Bay area, is converting its Madison at St. Pete property in downtown St. Petersburg into condominiums.

Kristi King, Zom's regional sales director, said many buyers aren't just looking for a good price - they're looking to live in the heart of a downtown area that has been revitalized.

``Everything that's happening here is a draw,'' King said. ``People park their cars and don't drive all weekend. They walk to the parks, the museums, the shops. The location is definitely pushing sales.''

Zom converted the Madison at St. Pete into condominiums in two phases. The first phase, with 140 units, was handled by an outside firm and sold out in seven months. The second phase, which is being sold by a separate company set up by Zom, went on the market about two months ago. Of 137 units, 118 have been sold.

Taylor, of CKT Development, said she's seeing a lot of buyers with an interest in living downtown.

``I do think there's a move to more urban living, whether it's single-family homes or condos,'' she said. ``I think people are tired of commuting from the outlying areas.''


Reporter Dave Simanoff can be reached at (813) 259-7762.
http://tampatrib.com/businessnews/MGBUM5Z8OVD.html

Anyone got fresh pictures of the Hasrd Rock Casino Hotel?

The news of how quickly many urban projects are selling around the area is seriously awesome. It seems as though at least half of what's proposed is going to get built, maybe even on schedule. That's really quite something IMO.

I am thorougly pleased to see this flurry of condo proposals/development in Tampa, finally catching up and I suppose will exceed its bayside neighbor. I think Tampa is a great city and the downtown/Channelside area has a lot of potential. I do remember reading in the Times recently, or maybe it was the Trib, that the Tampa Bay area has the highest expectant growth rate for office development in the coming years in the US. Now I'm just waiting for new proposals for office towers to be built downtown. I think we need a 600+ ft tower either a few blocks south of the Courthouse or on the eastern fringe of downtown, before the Crosstown amongst all those ugly parking lots.

I would also love to see like 1 million sqft of office space developed in DT Tampa over the next couple years, but I don't see it happening for a while yet.

Yeah, remember that they have the Hillsborough River Tower ready to be constructed and have had it since... what? 1996? 1997?

I don't see anything happening with office developement in the dowtown core until the end of the decade... but I'd be more than happy to eat crow on this.

Grand Central at Kennedy is on hold
http://www.notthesuburbs.com/
hinted it was owner discussions with pricing and the rising construction costs. Hopefully it will be resolved soon and will get back on track

I was afraid that might happen with that project, because they're trying to attract a more midmarket crowd, when compared to the other proposals around DT. I'm sure that thier margins are squeezed a bit as it is, and with skyrocketing construction costs and rising interest rates, it's pretty clear that something has to give.

Did they already tweak the project to have multiple phases? If not, perhaps that would allow them to lock in contracts and start one of the towers soon, while letting them wait on the other one, to see what happens with the construction prices, as well as the sales side of things.

Alternately, they may just go upmarket, and build two taller towers with fewer units, but much higher prices.

I think you are going to see alot of these jobs be delayed or put on hold as general contractors and their subcontractors will reevaluate contracts made 6 months ago and then seeing their profits now depleted with the rising construction costs.
EX: http://www.ortegariverclub.com (this one is in jacksonville)
another project which is dead because owner squabbling per General Contractor Auchter...

Folks should also realize that there isn't exactly a big labor pool to be drawing experienced highrise workers from in the Tampa area. There will undoubtedly be several stalls and restarts with the highrise growth, as the kinks work themselves out.

Still, as I indicated above, I see no reason why at least half of these projects won't find a way to get done, with numerous others still getting done, but only taking like twice as long as the developers expected.

NOt that I doubt it, I don't, but where does it say Grand Central is delayed?

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned, because I don't have time at this point to read the entire thread, but I haven't heard anything mentioned here about the Port Ybor project. I remember reading about it in the Tribune, or maybe that was my imagination?

Port Ybor - do you mean the office/warehouse space or the lot on teh Ybor channel that Aventis is trying to sell?

Port Ybor is that little project across the channel being done by trammell Crow... it's no big deal, as it is quite industrial, isn't tall, and will add absolutely nothing to DT. it's in the port, not Channelside or anything. The only thing of interest is the 3 story office campus, and that doesn't really get me too worked up. :)

Ummm... Grand Central at Kennedy isn't delayed... In fact, they're building a sales center, apparently with the intent of accelerating thier sales push.

Also note that the Towers at Channelside has reservations for most units, as does DT Channelside (we already know that from before). Things are definitely going very,very well for the buildings with the best views and reasonable price points.

________________________________________________________________________________________



Loft Construction Won't Cool During Hot Summer Months

By JANIS D. FROELICH jfroelich@tampatrib.com
Published: Jun 20, 2004




TAMPA - Instead of taking a summer break from Channel District loft activity because of road construction, developers are proceeding as planned. Bill Ware has finalized design plans for his Ventana development. The Place at Channelside is set to open its Discovery Center today. The Towers of Channelside has 250 reservations for its 260 planned units. Grand Central at Kennedy is offering a mixed- use, 370-unit condominium development, and plans to open a sales center at the end of June. And Victory Lofts plans to complete its 89 units by December.

Meanwhile, the Tampa Hillsborough Expressway Authority plans to take down the Kennedy Boulevard viaduct in 30 days, spokeswoman Perry Dawn Brown said.

The viaduct, an eyesore in the middle of this booming residential growth, is being removed, Brown said, to make way for a landscaped, six-lane highway that will bring expressway traffic to and from Brandon.

The Meridian Street Gateway will mean the Channel District will become the grand entrance to downtown Tampa, developers say.

``I think that's been a big selling point,'' said Richard Sacchi, president of the Towers of Channelside. ``Our buyers want to be where the action is.''

Sacchi said construction should begin on the twin 30- story towers in January or February.

``We sold 250 units in 13 days,'' he said, noting the project is opposite the Channelside entertainment/restaurant complex.

The Towers of Channelside also will include five retail spaces, four of which are sold. These will bring a coffee shop, dry cleaners, fitness center, deli and a sushi place to the area.

``We wanted neighborhood retail, not something competing with Channelside,'' Sacchi said.

The 84 units at Ventana also will enjoy a key location at 1112 Channelside Drive at the north corner of Kennedy Boulevard, opposite a streetcar stop.

``About 60 percent of the project will be glass so owners will have lots of open space and windows to enjoy the views,'' Ware said.

A fourth-floor terrace level, where units surround the swimming pool, will feature private patios.

``People can actually live out there,'' Ware said. ``It will be big enough for a table and four chairs.''

Ware plans a sales center for Ventana, which means windows in Spanish, in September, and expects to begin construction next year.

Developer Fida H. Sirdar has renovated one of the warehouses on his 2.2 acres between 12th Street and Channelside Drive to showcase The Place at Channelside.

The sales center will offer 256 units to be built around a courtyard. Residents will also enjoy a pet park on the fifth level. On the street level, plans are in the works for retail and art galleries.

Grand Central at Kennedy is finishing a two-bedroom model near the Kennedy viaduct. The project will include retail stores, office space, an art gallery and community theater, Mercury Advisors developer Ken Stoltenberg announced recently.

Victory Lofts has four penthouses left, said Nick Pavonetti, who is overseeing The Beck Group's two-building project. The four-story Model T building is a renovation of an old structure, and the seven-story Victory Building is new. Both are located at the corner of 12th and Whiting streets.

Pavonetti said one of the penthouses will be kept to serve as a model unit for a future residential project in downtown Tampa or the Channel District.

``We couldn't be more pleased with this project,'' he said.

Doubt it will work, but what the hell - there wasn't anything there - so it could not have been historic in the first place.

Historic District Request A First
By IVAN J. HATHAWAY ihathaway@tampatrib.com
Published: Jun 24, 2004




BAYSHORE - A developer's request to have the site of his proposed Bayshore Boulevard condominium tower drawn out of the Hyde Park Historic District appears to be breaking new ground.
Preservationists say they have never dealt with such a request.

An assistant city attorney is researching the issue so she can offer guidance to Tampa's Historic Preservation Commission at its meeting Aug. 10.

The request intrigues commission Chairwoman Catherine Byrd.

``The commission is a very open-minded group,'' Byrd said. ``Personally, I'm very, very curious to hear just what would warrant the redrawing of a historic district's boundaries.''

The commission was formed in 1999, filling the void of the defunct Historic Tampa/Hillsborough County Preservation Board. It has been involved in expanding the Ybor City Historic District and creating the Tampa Heights Historic District.

It also has studied the possible creation of historic districts in West Tampa, Port Tampa and New Suburb Beautiful, commission administrator Annie Hart said. Most issues dealing with boundaries have come up during public hearings leading to the adoption of a district, she said.

``We've never had an action like this one,'' Hart said.

Though city codes usually detail procedures and timetables of filings, hearing dates and appeals, it doesn't appear to be the case here.

``I don't believe the code speaks to any time frame,'' Assistant City Attorney Cate O'Dowd said.

Tampa land-use lawyer John Grandoff said he thinks the process used to expand a historic district can be used to contract one. Redrawing the district would remove a major obstacle facing his client, developer Bill Robinson, who wants to build a tower on vacant land at Bayshore Boulevard and DeSoto Avenue.

Robinson has been hit with a string of rejections and setbacks since filing the condominium plan more than a year ago.

His original design called for a 31-story tower more than 400 feet tall, but that and a scaled down 24-story version were rejected by the city's Architectural Review Commission, which oversees development and restorations in historic districts.

The commission said both versions are too tall and not in character with the historic district. When Grandoff appealed to city council this month, it sided with the review commission. The next day, Grandoff requested the site be removed from the historic district.

The parcel, which Robinson has owned since 1996, is less than a block from South Howard Avenue, the district's western boundary.

``It is our theory that [the site] was included mistakenly,'' Grandoff said, referring to the boundaries drawn in 1988. ``We're the only vacant property zoned [for a residential tower] in the district.''

Stephanie Ferrell, the former head of the Historic Tampa/Hillsborough preservation board, said she recalls no discussion of the parcel when her staff did the study that led to the creation of the historic district.

``If there had been a question about it, it would have been brought to my attention,'' she said.

The fact that it already was zoned for a high-rise was not a factor, she said.

``A historic district's boundaries are blind to zoning,'' Ferrell said. ``You look at significance of an area and the buildings in it.

``The drawing of boundaries is not a science, per se,'' she said. ``One could argue it each way.''


Reporter Ivan J. Hathaway can be reached at (813) 835-2103.

http://www.tampatrib.com/News/MGB9LLF0UVD.html

It brings up a valid reality. The historical types are denying the owner the rights of his zoning designation, because they feel that would be "out of character" with the historic nature of the district. It's a catch 22.

Surely there is other case precedent to go by from around the country, and probably around Florida as well.

Just saw the City COuncil meeting where they approved the site plan and other micellany for this:
http://media.tbo.com/photos/trib/2004/mar/0325cnd2.jpg

Which is now 603 feet (they had some techincal reason to add 10 feet)

Jeez, Tampa now has three 600ft structures on the drawing board. I think it's safe to say now that we're egtting a new tallest in the near future. :)

Any word on the property next to the News Center on the corner of Kennedy and Parker Street? I over heard someone in my office mention there was movement on development there.

http://www.valenciahydepark.com/images/home_ValeciaMid.jpg

Upscale project to flavor Old Hyde Park
Officials say the townhomes and condos are in keeping with the village's urban feel and hopefully will attract more customers.
By STEFANIE GREEN
Published June 25, 2004

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


A $15-million condominium and townhouse project is going up on the edge of Old Hyde Park Village.

The Valencia, developed by Hamilton Jones of Gaspar Properties Inc., includes a seven-story building with 24 condos and an adjacent building with five three-story townhouses. It will be on Dakota Avenue, behind Sunrise Cinemas, formerly Madstone Theaters, in the Old Hyde Park Historic District.

"We have been looking for a site within the historic district and historic in nature," Jones said. "It's such a great spot."

Construction of the 1920s, Mediterranean Revival-style project is scheduled to begin this fall and last one year. The colors, construction materials and accents, such as barrel tile roofs and wrought iron trim, were selected to blend in with the surrounding neighborhood.

The city's Architectural Review Commission approved the site and design about three months ago, Jones said.

Jones is also known for redeveloping the Palace of Florence apartments on Davis Islands and is part of a team that submitted designs last week for the old federal courthouse downtown. So far, demand for the Valencia has been high, he said.

"Just by word of mouth and an advertisement, we already have 15 to 20 people interested," Jones said.

Units will range from about 1,600 to 2,100 square feet, with penthouses up to 3,300 square feet. Each will have private balconies or terraces, covered parking, 10-foot ceilings and hardwood floors.

Pat Westerhouse, general manager of Old Hyde Park Village, said the project will be a boost to the shopping complex and surrounding neighborhood.

"I think it is a great plan, and it will add more urban sites to Old Hyde Park and, hopefully, more customers," Westerhouse said. "It continues on with the urban feel here in the historic district."

Prices range from $399,000 to $750,000, with penthouses starting at $1-million. An on-site sales center at 607 S Dakota Ave. will open next month. For information, go to www.valenciahydepark.com

- Stefanie Green can be reached at 226-3303 or smgreen@sptimes.com
http://www.sptimes.com/2004/06/25/Citytimes/Upscale_project_to_fl.shtml

Since the airport has political muscle and used to oppose the rail plan, I view this as a very good development

Light Rail Key To Airport's Future
By TED JACKOVICS tjackovics@tampatrib.com
Published: Jun 25, 2004




TAMPA - Advocating for a local light rail system, Tampa International Airport director Louis Miller said planners must enlist community interest to fund construction of a rail network to link the airport, downtown and outlying residential areas.
Pinellas County eventually should be included in a light rail network that cities nationwide have embraced, Miller said Thursday in launching the airport's update of its 20-year master plan, which calls for a new runway, another main terminal and other improvements.

``We have had plans for a light rail network on our master plan since 1999, and we realize it will not happen overnight,'' Miller said. ``However, light rail can help avoid significant capital investments for roadways and parking.''

Miller's comments punctuated the first of a series of aviation authority workshops that will include public sessions as part of updating the airport's long-range plan for 2005 to 2025.

In the short run, Tampa International is on target with construction of a new Airside C, scheduled for completion by April 2005. The 16-gate terminal mostly will serve Southwest Airlines.

The airport continues work on a remote parking garage. The first phase of construction will add 3,966 spaces by Thanksgiving 2005; the second phase will add 1,705 a year later; future expansion could add 2,330.

Over the next two decades, Tampa International is expected to add a third north-south runway near the Veterans Expressway to handle an ever-increasing number of flights, giving the airport four runways overall.

It expects to construct an additional main terminal north of the current terminal complex and add parking, building two terminals for light rail if that system is implemented.

Tampa International will prepare for a new generation of 550-passenger jets, although few of those giant aircraft are expected to serve Tampa soon. The airport's runways could handle the Airbus A380, expected to enter service in 2006, but taxiways must be modified because of the A380's wingspan.

The current long-range plan envisions the new runway by 2012 and the new terminal by about 2020.

Ricondo & Associates of Chicago, consultants for the new master plan, retained seven other firms to contribute to the update, expected to be ready by November 2005.

The aviation authority also will consider a University of South Florida proposal to create an economic impact study for the airport, which could become part of the master plan.

Miller said that in the long term, the area might consider a regional approach to airport planning that would include Sarasota Bradenton International and St. Petersburg- Clearwater International airports.

Tampa International, which draws 32.7 percent of its passengers from Pinellas County and an additional 10 percent or more from Manatee and Sarasota counties, expects to learn - when consultants update data - that it draws even more passengers from outlying areas.

That makes ground transportation planning even more critical because gridlock would hinder Tampa International's chances of maintaining its growth and sustaining area economic development, said Hillsborough County Aviation Authority Commissioner Stephen Mitchell, a Tampa lawyer who has served on various local transportation boards.

``Light rail would affect people every day as they go to work, compared with the occasional travel people would make between Tampa and Orlando,'' said Mitchell of the two proposed rail systems.

Miller pointed out that 20 percent of the passengers who use Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport use the capital's rail system to get to their flights.

In January, Houston launched the first 8-mile section of a light rail system that took 25 years of planning.

Atlanta long has benefited from its rail connections to Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport, Mitchell said. In recent months, John F. Kennedy International Airport in New York and Newark Liberty International Airport have added rail connections.


Reporter Ted Jackovics can be reached at (813) 259-7817.

http://www.tampatrib.com/Business/MGBIKDYMVVD.html

HEre's teh location of that Valencia thing
http://www.valenciahydepark.com/images/GAS-3319-RegistrationPg_07.gif

Excellent article on light rail and the airport. It's definately needed, and should be done as a regional effort.

Valencia is nice. It should fit well with the style and scale of Hyde Park.

I would love to see several more structures of that scale throughout SoHo along Armenia and Howard, and then spread eat towards DT, along Azeele and Platt.


The news about the airport is great, but I will feel much better about things when our loser County Commisioners are gone, and we actually have a real chance of seeing something get built.

Get ready for more along Howard - particularly the thing in the BErn's parking lot - nice project. I have seen it on review a number of times. Good modern-ish stuff.

AS for the airport, the significance is that teh commissioners have been hiding behind the cover of a number of groups for a while. I view this as the beginning of those groups kicking the commission out into the open. THat's why I like it. It is a little push from a respected local groups.

I would like to see many of those old 5-6 storey brick buildings from the turn of the century restored to condos or apartments. I'm not sure what they used to be, maybe cigar factories, even though they are not near Ybor. There's quite a few visible from 275 looking south around the vicinity of the Armenia/Howard exit.

HEre is an official story

LATEST NEWS
1:13 PM EDT Friday
Tampa condo tower gets council approval
Developers of a 50-story condominium tower overlooking the Hillsborough River say they will move ahead with the project after receiving Tampa City Council approval during a zoning hearing Thursday night.

W&A LLC plans to build The Future Riverside Residences on the southwest corner of Ashley Drive and West Whiting Street. The building, which would be Tampa's tallest, will have 213 condo units ranging between 2,000 and 6,000 square feet each and include amenities such as a theater, swimming pool, spa and private office space.

The property will also feature a ground-level waterfront restaurant with outdoor seating and two high-end retail stores. A 358-foot riverwalk is also planned to connect with the city's 1.25-mile walkway.

W&A, which stands for Whiting and Ashley, is a partnership of five local real estate veterans: Frank Dagostino, Jody Simon, Bob Lyons, Patrick Sheppard and Dr. Howard Howell. The partners have completed more than 1,000 luxury condominium and townhouse projects throughout the Tampa Bay area.

Turner Construction Co., National Constructors Inc. and Smith Barnes Santiesteban Architecture have been hired by the partnership to design and build The Future Riverside Residences. The Toni Everett Co. will handle condo sales.

The Tampa City Council in March approved another downtown high-rise condo project called Four Seasons Residences at 602 E. Whiting St. The 51-story tower will contain 472 units ranging from studio apartments to a two-story, 4,000-square-foot penthouse.
http://www.bizjournals.com/tampabay/stories/2004/06/21/daily45.html?t=printable

Any word on the property next to the News Center on the corner of Kennedy and Parker Street? I over heard someone in my office mention there was movement on development there.

Media General owns rights to the property and they have been waiting forever to get a key tennant in order to build the Hillsborough River Tower on the property -- I forget building details but it would have been a new tallest office tower for downtown.

AS for the airport, the significance is that teh commissioners have been hiding behind the cover of a number of groups for a while. I view this as the beginning of those groups kicking the commission out into the open. THat's why I like it. It is a little push from a respected local groups.


Doesn't the Tampa COC also openly support a LRT initiative? I'm sure that HARTline does, as they always have...I also think that Iorio is at minimum receptive to the idea of letting voters decide... I mean seriously, who else do we need to come out in favor of at least letting folks have thier day in the voting booths?

I wish that someone would wake up over there at Media General, and clue in to the fact that they need to make the project mixed-use at this point, to make it viable. The office market in DT Tampa will be stagnant for quite a while IMO, as there is plenty of large block vacancies, and there is also nearly 2 million sqft of office space ready to be built in Westshore, basically at the drop of a hat. (cornerstone plaza, TB1, and that project off kennedy on the bay)... And let's not even mention the alluring parcels and vacancies which exist along the I-75 corridor from Brandon up to New Tampa.

At 603 Feet, Condo Tower Will Be Tallest

By WILL RODGERS wjrodgers@tampatrib.com
Published: Jun 26, 2004






TAMPA - A development group said Friday that it will move forward with plans to build a 50-story, 213-condominium tower overlooking the Hillsborough River.
The Tampa City Council, voting 4-1 Thursday night, approved the site plan for the 603-foot luxury residence proposed for about 1 1/2 acres on the southwest corner of Ashley Drive and Whiting Street in downtown.

Dubbed Future Riverside Residences until group principals can agree on a name, the tower will be the tallest in downtown when completed in July 2007, said Pat Sheppard, one of five partners in Whiting & Ashley LLC, the developer.

Tampa's tallest building is 100 North Tampa at 579 feet.

The neighboring Bank of America Plaza is two feet shorter.

``It is a signature building for the city of Tampa,'' Sheppard said. ``It will make Tampa a true downtown-living residence for the city.''

The condos will have three bedrooms and three bathrooms, and range from 2,000 square feet to 5,800 square feet.

Prices will run from $600,000 to several million dollars for the penthouses, said Ron Weaver, attorney for Whiting & Ashley.

The project will feature a high-end restaurant and retail stores on the ground level. That will be connected to a 358-foot riverwalk by landscaped, public space decorated with public art.

Parking will take up the next eight floors.

A theater, swimming pool, pool baths, spas, private wine lockers, a conference center, office space and a catering kitchen will take up another floor.

There will be six units at each level from the 12th floor through the 39th.

Large residences and penthouses will fill each level from the 40th floor through the 50th.

Construction is expected to cost about $160 million, Sheppard said.

City Councilwoman Rose Ferlita voted against Future Riverside Residences, saying the proposed tower would be too big.

``It's pretty, but it's huge,'' Ferlita said. ``It's the tallest building downtown. It was just going to smother anything that came later.''

Weaver said the project, which would have about 500 people living downtown, will spur activity and development in what is now a dead city center.

``That quiet that settles at about 5:42 every evening will not settle over that building,'' he said. ``That building will just start to hum at 5:42.''

The city council must vote twice, July 15 and 29, on an ordinance that accompanies the site development plan.

Whiting & Ashley - a partnership of Aljinon Corp. and SimDag Investments, longtime developers in the Tampa Bay area - plans to break ground in January or February.


Reporter Ted Byrd contributed to this report. Reporter Will Rodgers can be reached at (813) 259-7870.
http://news.tbo.com/news/MGBPOKI4XVD.html

Great news, I didn't expect it to break ground so soon. However, I must say I don't understand City Councilwoman Rose Ferlita viewpoint. Its too big for downtown? This isn't going in downtown Plant City. The last time I checked, the site is right around the corner from a couple of 500 footers. Maybe it would be too big for Davis Island or Bayshore Drive, but it should fit well, with surrounding landscape of downtown.

btw, I found out today that there is a sizable apartment project being quietly worked on for Lois Avenue, on the SE corner of where it intersects with Boy Scout (currently vacant land). It's called Las Scalas or something, will be 4 stories tall with integrated parking decks, and looks like it will span the ENTIRE site as one contiguous structure. Must have at least 500 units, probably more. Don't know when they will announce it, or if it is even a sure thing yet.

Great news, I didn't expect it to break ground so soon. However, I must say I don't understand City Councilwoman Rose Ferlita viewpoint. Its too big for downtown? This isn't going in downtown Plant City. The last time I checked, the site is right around the corner from a couple of 500 footers. Maybe it would be too big for Davis Island or Bayshore Drive, but it should fit well, with surrounding landscape of downtown.



I dont' think that she likes the fact that it's so tall on a riverfront site. Of course, this means that she should also be bitching about the Collonade (400 N Ashley), as well as the Hillsborough River Tower, if ever built...

I suspect that she's griping probably because she has some vocal constituents who work in 100 N Tampa, or the Wachovia building. Both towers will have thier westward views severely compromised by this new tower... poo, poo...

Small bit of news.
A co-worker was going to do a building inspection of the small commercial track on Harbour Island(the old Stallone's, etc.), but was told that the present tenents were all going to be evicted at the end of June.
I am hoping this is so they can tear that building down and start on the three 20 story condos at that location.

Keep your fingers crossed!!!

New rendering of the Franklin residences, I like the view but the street action is weak. No idea about sales.

http://images1.e-net.com/smith/Development/full/165.jpg

Drove by the downtown school lot - buidling is coming along nicely. What I really like is that it covers most of the lot and, even better, is going to be higher than the Crosstown, so you will see it from the raod (it is just west of it) and it will help give that enclosed feeling while you drive along - which is something I am all in favor of.

The exterior finishes are well underway on the Arts Center Lofts and The Parkcrest, and the facades are also moving along on One Bayshore and Victory Lofts.

We need a couple new groundbreakings. :)

I think I know which building this is, and if it is the one I am thinking about, this will be a nice change to an area that seems to be moving a bit.

Former Downtown Liquor Store To Become New Studio
By JANIS D. FROELICH jfroelich@tampatrib.com
Published: Jun 17, 2004







TAMPA - A former liquor store with living quarters upstairs is about to become home to an international design studio and offices.
The building at 1209 N. Tampa St., purchased last year for $265,000, will be renovated by Garcia Media starting in July.

``It will have an Art Deco feel,'' Mario Garcia Jr. said.

But first Garcia must oversee the clean-up of the downtown building where vagrants have been sleeping in the year since Garcia Global Group Inc. bought it.

Sleeping bags, magazines and food containers clutter downstairs and upstairs of the two-story, C-shaped structure.

Garcia has been gentle in his approach to getting rid of the homeless. However, he said he finally had to call police when a man who had been sleeping in a cardboard box turned violent on him.

Garcia posted a sign after the incident warning the building was to be boarded up in case anyone wanted to claim his possessions.

Such are the challenges in the north end of downtown, a somewhat deserted area a few blocks from the hustle and bustle of office workers.

Garcia said the firm founded by his father, who is known for bringing color to the staid pages of the Wall Street Journal in his redesign work, accepts the task.

``We're in the business of revitalization,'' said Garcia, standing on the top floor where doors to rooftop terraces will be added.

``The change here will be incredible. Yet the lines will remain the same so we'll be combining a little bit of the past and present.''

The elder Garcia has almost 30 years of redesign experience and has redesigned more than 450 newspapers. The author of 12 books, he founded the graphics department at the Poynter Institute for Media Studies after joining the St. Petersburg facility's faculty in 1984.

The Garcias hired Stephanie Ferrell, who has a nearby personal project of transforming the former 1920s Arlington Hotel into a mixed-use structure.

Ferrell plans high-tech lighting, brushed stainless steel railings and polished black terrazzo floors for the Garcia building. She said while walls will be knocked down and the ceiling will be raised to give the 10 employees a sense of openness, the 3,600 square feet is a solid 1950s structure.

``There will be glass and steel,'' she said, ``but it will be done so the integrity of the older building is still there.''

As an example, new glass block walls will be added to the glass blocks already there.

For now, the site is surrounded by city-owned parking lots, giving the Garcias a view of downtown from their front door.

However, that could change as more redevelopment comes to the area. In addition to Ferrell's project at 1219 N. Franklin St., which will have 11 residences upstairs and 10 mixed- use units downstairs, Residences on Franklin is planned next to the CPA offices of Luciano Prida, 1106 N. Franklin St., who plans the 34-unit complex.


Reporter Janis D. Froelich can be reached at (813) 259-7143.

http://southtampa.tbo.com/southtampa/MGBF3KY0KVD.html

That's a nice little metamorphasis going on on the north end of Franklin St just south of I-275. Personally, I really hope that too many blocks presently filled with "little" structures don't get rehabbed, meaning that those blocks would be frozen in time for at least 20-30 years. I guess that we certainly won't run out fo blocks to develop for a looooong time to come, but DT Tampa is also hemmed in geographically, meaning that whenever the blocks get scarce, it's basically impossible for it to expand organically...(think about it. In the long run, where would highrise growth go? Probably across the river, but with the ARC to deal with, and UT, there would be but a handful of acceptable sites)

A downtown which can absorb several hundred units a year, and expand its other offerings (office, hotel, retail, govt) in line with typical growth will find itself at build out much quicker than folks may think. 30-40 years sounds like alot to us, but in the scheme of things, that is a blink of an eye, barely encompassing two generations at most.

I have to say, I disagree. I think there is so little left in Tampa that most of it (erally all of it) should be saved. There is a lot of space to fill all over the place. IF they fill it in 40 years, then we can revisit the issue.

I somehow omitted a "not" in there that really changed the meaning of the 2nd sentence. I've been doing that all day today, because I'm genuinely sleep deprived. I just know if I go to bed early, the i will wake up at like 5-6am, and then repeat the problem tomorrow.


But the overall intent of the post remains the same, and you would still disagree. :)



it still comes back to what I always say.... Save the historic landlark architecture, especially older architecture which will prove to still be in scale to modern developments. As such, i'm actually willing to do something like making an "all costs be damned" affort to save the Mass Brothers building, even if it meant some of this old junk elsewhere in DT gets knocked down. I find little value in saving common architecture, which was spewed ad infinium all over the countryside. That would be like wanted to save entire subdivisions of 60's-70's tract housing, just because it's old, and we might not have any more of it someday (or how about trailer parks. Let's save those! :D).

As with all entities which endure a life cycle (which is just about everything in existence), I don't believe in necessarily saving something when it has exhausted its useful life cycle, and now needs massive rehabilitation, just to be able to exist at all, and still might not be all that viable when rehabbed. Most things are meant to die, as there can be no evolution or progress without rebirth and renewal. (the problem, with renewal of the past was that they killed buildings still well within thier functional life cycle)... i think that this painful past has led to a knee jerk overreaction these days, to the prospect of the trivial being put under.

Save the landmarks. Save that which can still be viable, and serve the community well for another generation. Plow the rest under, to fertilize the next generation. it's the natural cycle of life for a city IMO.

I agree, sort of. The problem is that the 20-30's buildings are in a good vernacular that should be preserved and maintained, while trailer parks and tract housing (a lot of it anyway) is not. I don't suggest keeping everything, but since there is very little left, I would suggest keeping it - like Ybor, where most of the buildings are pretty generic, but, together, form a useful whole.

Beleive me, there is no lack of space. Moreover, as lots are eaten things go up. A final note - the 20-30's vernacular must remain to remind people of how to actually build something in Florida - with awning and close to the street, etc., which was forgotten for about 30 years.

Good point about keeping them if only to showcase that which should be common sense, but isn't... of course, a few zoning codes, development incentives and some photographs can do the same thing.

That trailer park bit was actually a crack at the few local nutjobs who have actually suggested that thier trailer park be designated as a historic place. Of course, thier motivation is 100% pure NIMBYism, but I guess that doesn't matter when you're near the end of your life, and desperately want to cling onto what you identify with, and want to control, control, control. Tech them a lesson dag nab it!!!


I guess I just don't want to see a situation where northern DT develops a hieght limit or something, sort of turning into Tampa's silly version of Tribeca or the Villiage, as seen in Manhattan. Remember what they ALWAYS say around here. "We don't want to become another Manhattan!!!!".... Indeed, I really do agree in principle, just so long as folks recognize the true meaning of thier sentiment.

I don't know to where, but this thread has been linked somewhere. It is getting alot of hits every day now, from what I can tell, and that could surely only be coming from external hits.

A Night At Courthouse Might Not Be So Bad
By JANIS D. FROELICH jfroelich@tampatrib.com
Published: Jul 2, 2004




TAMPA - The scene of courtroom battles for decades, the Renaissance Revival federal courthouse in downtown is about to get a second life.
A half-dozen groups are competing to redevelop the 1905 courthouse, with proposals including making it a charter school or a hotel. The plans cost from $1.5 million to $12.5 million.

The six project proposals submitted last month will be reviewed and ranked by a nine-member volunteer committee at 2 p.m. today in the city council chambers at city hall, 315 Kennedy Blvd.

The committee expects to make a recommendation to the city council in the fall.

The proposed uses are charter schools, a Greek culture center, apartments, an artists' center, and a hotel, shops and restaurant.

``We're real pleased with this new diversity,'' said Mark Huey, the city's economic development administrator. ``We have three for-profits and three not-for-profits.''

After the city received only two redevelopment proposals for the building last year, Huey extended a grander invitation this spring that included a tour of the ornate courthouse.

The city took over the building at 611 N. Florida Ave. last year after U.S. District Court moved into a modern high- rise a block away.

Huey said the city hopes a restored courthouse will be a catalyst for other development in a downtown section marked by boarded up windows and vacant storefronts.


From Simple To Grand

The six proposals are:

* The City Initiative: A nonprofit group of artists and professionals called Tampa Bay Verve wants to create workshop space for theater groups, artists and nonprofit groups. With a budget of $1.5 million, Verve doesn't plan major restoration of the building.

* The American Foundation for Greek Language and Culture: A $9.1 million nonprofit classics headquarters would relocate from Temple Terrace and would include a library, an archive for rare books and manuscripts, plus a museum.

* Pradip C. Patel: Two charter schools and a photography museum are in a $10 million nonprofit plan from a team headed by Patel, a managed health care executive.

* Vintage I Partnership: Malio Iavarone, owner of Malio's Steakhouse, has a development team to turn the courthouse into a deluxe hotel with 52 rooms, a spa, and banquet and meeting space. The Old Courthouse Hotel would have large rooms, at 450 square feet each, plus a ``high tea'' room, a five-star restaurant and cigar bar. The project would cost about $10 million. Iavarone, the 36-year owner of Malio's, said his group of private investors will finance the hotel.

* Classic Development Group: Recognized in the Tampa Bay area for numerous historic restorations, architects Stephanie Ferrell, Leigh Wilson and Martha Sherman are teaming with developers Russell Versaggi and Hamilton Jones. They propose a mixed- use building to include 36 loft apartments. The team plans to invest $3 million, plus seek a construction loan for $7.9 million.

* TBR Management Group: The group proposes a two-story, 40-room hotel with a technology center and exhibit space. It includes a restaurant, museum and kitchen where chefs could train. The University of South Florida's College of Visual and Performing Arts expressed interest in using space for a theater, studio and museum as part of TBR's project. The project cost is about $12.5 million, including a $9.3 million loan and $3.1 million federal grant.

Iavarone said he was inspired to transform the old federal courthouse into a hotel by his daughter, who lives in a renovated federal building in Pasadena, Calif.

``It's happening all over the country. Downtowns are hot,'' he said.

Real estate broker William Bissett Jr., chairman of the old federal courthouse committee, said a group's financial status will be important.

``The city is in no position to take on a debt load. So we'll be careful about looking at these financial plans along with how the historic nature of the building will be kept up,'' Bissett said.


Museum Isn't In The Running

Still, former Hillsborough County Commissioner Joe Chillura is leery about all six plans. He would prefer to see the Tampa Bay History Center go there.

The history center plans to move from the Tampa Convention Center into a new $20 million waterfront building near the Channel District.

``Why not just relocate the museum into half of the space at the federal courthouse and lease the rest?'' Chillura said. ``It's a natural setting for Tampa's history.''

Chillura said he is most concerned about the upkeep of the 109,171-square-foot structure with its elegant fixtures, granite basement and marble first floor.

``Grant money is available for long-term maintenance. But no one in government will say why they don't consider this plan,'' Chillura said. ``Instead, taxpayers are not only going to have to support one of these six developers' plans, but also provide money for the history center's new site.''

Ann Avery, a Tampa resident who worked at the courthouse in the 1950s and 1960s during a 31-year U.S. Customs career, agrees with Chillura's history center proposal.

``It would be a horror to make this beautiful landmark into apartments, schools and businesses,'' she said.

Avery sees the former courthouse as a ``monument of dignity.''

But Del Acosta, the city's historic preservation manager, said the history center has decided to go elsewhere.

History Center President Rob Blount said the courthouse would have to be gutted to make room for the galleries the center needs.

``Orange County located its history center in a courthouse a few years ago and it ended up costing $60 million,'' he said. ``New construction is cheaper than reconstruction.''


Rankings Will Be Computerized

Acosta said the courthouse committee had hoped for proposals from across the United States, but is satisfied with five from Hillsborough County and TBR of St. Pete Beach.

``I think we have enough for a good decision,'' he said.

The rankings will be based on a 100-point scale from the committee members. The results will be computerized, with the city at this point remaining neutral, Acosta said.

``It's a competition,'' Huey said. But, he added, one proposal could be so superior that the committee would decide to present it to city council before the fall.

``I want this done yesterday,'' Huey said.


Reporter Janis D. Froelich can be reached at (813) 259-7143.

I agree with Chillura. Make it the Tampa History museum, and use our precious water front for mixed use retail,office and/or residential.

The museum is not going to have a enough draw to justify placing it on the best piece of real estate left in the city

I agree, this is the best location for the history museum. Unfortunately, the one's in charge don't see it that way.

Not a chance, the well-connected stole a waterfront lot for that - one where no one will ever see the building unless they are in a boat. One that is far away from any other cultural attraction. In short, perfect for the old money. NOw they can build a new library by the fairgrounds.

some Ybor city stuff going in .



I really hope this works. i haven't been able to figure out how to post pics yet !!


5th ave and 20th st
http://www.yborrealty.com/images/ybor_condo_brochure/01.jpg

4th ave
http://www.yborrealty.com/images/projects/YborVillageLofts1_600.jpg
1903-1911 5th ave
http://www.yborrealty.com/images/projects/...eLofts2_600.jpg (http://www.yborrealty.com/images/projects/YborVillageLofts2_600.jpg)
5th ave around 15 th st
http://images1.e-net.com/smith/Development/full/171.jpg
4th ave around 15th st
http://images1.e-net.com/smith/Development/full/160.jpg
3rd ave and 16th st
http://homepics.realtor.com/image8/http/tampabayarea/listings/large/034/2022364_101.jpg

^^^Those are some nice-looking projects.

Excellent

By the way, is there retail going in there or is there just space reserved for it (I mean are there really shops getting set up in there)

Those are some great projects for Ybor.

Yes, they will add some nice infill in an area that needs it. It would be good to have all of 5th and 4th be filled with real townhouses and the like.

The first project has several commercial spaces. All but one are sold. They will be office space except for one that I bought. My wife wants to open a boutique of sorts, there. There will be a real estate office, law office and an accounting office, that I know of so far.

The last project(the 5 story building) has a space for a restaurant in the bottom left corner of the pic. I don't know if they actually have anyone signed for it.

Here is one more project I forgot to put on the list. This one also has retail space, but I have no idea, if or when this will break ground.
http://www.yborrealty.com/images/projects/LaBodegaVillas1_300.jpg

That's AWESOME. I also hope that the entire 'strip' along 4th and 5th can densify, and perhaps even eventually allow for the trolley to turn back, and head west along 4th ave, to link back up with itself in a loop. Or, at minimum, have at least one spur run down like 18th or something, to havce a terminus stop down at 4th. People WILL ride that thing, especially in a few years when all of this stuff is built all over Ybor and Channelside and DT itself.

whats the status on this: http://www.blueheronmedia.com/tampa_rail_web/about_tampa_rail/overview.htm

There is no real status. It is an idae that is bandied about without any rael support or progress, though a few more reltaievly influential people are buying into the idea.

TIA being the primary one. It still remains to be seen whether Iorio is yet prepared to put some of the city's tax revenues where her mouth is. :)

Sure, it's a fluff piece, but I did not know the Arlington sold out.
InTown Tampa for July 2004

Franklin Street's Renaissance Heats Up
Catherine S. Mitseas



In between the boarded-up buildings and coffee shops, there is an energy emerging along Franklin Street. From its northern point, where I-4 sits just moments away, to its bustling core near Kennedy Boulevard, new businesses are tentatively testing the downtown economy.

A walk down Franklin Street reveals two new residential complexes, several restaurants and a recording studio that doubles as a music store.

The Arlington, at 1209 N. Franklin Street, is a renovated hotel with 21 units priced from $140,000. First-floor units are mixed-use commercial and residential. Built at the turn of the 20th century, the Arlington's charm and authenticity attracted buyers immediately. "The project sold out within a week," said Dallas Coffield, agent with Smith & Associates.

"We didn't expect to sell out that quickly," he continued. But an unexpected niche emerged as individuals and couples were attracted to the hotel's Old-World charm, coupled with its newly- designed apartments and unique detailing. Because the building's wood work was in excellent condition, reclaimed materials, including original doors and transoms - windows built above doors to allow in fresh air - were salvaged and used throughout the building. People will be moving in beginning in early 2005, he said.

The Residences at 1108 N. Franklin Street will sit across from and south of the Arlington. Not yet built, the 40-unit, eight-story property will offer one- and two-bedroom condominiums from 1,050 square feet, and start at $200,000. Its amenities will include a rooftop fitness center. Slated for a fall 2004 groundbreaking, the property already has a reservation list of interested buyers, Coffield said.

Along Franklin Street's main strip south of the Tampa Theatre, and in the heart of its lunch district, sits Nebulous Records. Established in 1995, the company relocated from Ybor City to downtown this spring. Downtown's bustling lunch crowd and safe environment lured the business, Michael Muzio, CEO explained.

Nebulous Records is a full-service recording studio that produces and distributes its Blue Moon Group record label. Music fans can visit, sample, and buy music as well. Since its inception, Nebulous has produced about 400 records, achieving 17 Billboard hits and two number-one dance songs.

Nearby are two new restaurants, Trolley's International Cuisine & Lounge and the Signature Café. Each seeks to offer patrons something different from the regular downtown fare. Trolley keeps a full-liquor bar and serves an internationally inspired menu into the evening.

The Signature features a large vegetarian menu and specialty coffees. Tony Varrica, Signature's owner, opened the café in April after moving to Tampa from Boston. Everyone suggested downtown, he said. "The hours are short, but busy," they told him.

Pockets of professionals - lawyers, accountants, mortgage brokers and title agents - reside along Franklin Street as well. In 2000, Tom P. Martino purchased a rundown, 100-year-old building at 1205 N. Franklin Street, as a second location for his mortgage company, Martino & Company. Today two lawyers and a title company rent space.

The building is close to the I-4, near the Leroy Selmon Crosstown expressway, and five minutes from Ybor City.

"It's a mystery to me as to why it stayed vacant for so long," said Martino. "So many times, you have areas that no one thinks of, until someone takes the first step."

The street's newest residents - its homeowners - are drawn to the area's potential. "There are a lot more things to do downtown than people realize," Coffield said, and these new tenants are more than happy to wait for more to happen.
http://tampasdowntown.com/intown070604a.htm

Sure, it's Bay NEws 9, but it is interesting:
Wheels in motion for light rail project
Wednesday, July 7, 2004

The rail system is still likely years away from becoming a reality.
The Tampa Bay Commuter Rail Authority is taking steps to make the dream of a local light rail system a reality.

"We're going to build this sucker unless somebody stops us," said state Senator Jim Sebesta.

Sebesta is pushing the idea of a light rail system to carry commuters from Hernando to Manatee, and from Pinellas to Polk. But once the commuters get to the train station, how will they get to their destinations?

Hernando County resident Len Tria has checked out light rail systems in Dallas, St. Louis and Portland. He says successful systems have one thing in common.

"Every light rail system has a bus feeder system that brings riders to it, every one," said Tria.

So now the rail authority is scouting potential locations for so-called inter-modal centers -- stations where commuters can get off the train and get a cab, bus or another train to take them to their final destination efficiently.

"We're trying to figure out how to put all of those mass transit systems together," said Sebesta. "And there may very well be more than one inter-modal center for each of the counties."

Possible locations for the centers include downtown sites in Tampa, St. Petersburg and Clearwater. The board hopes to have final locations picked out later this year. Then work begins on planning potential routes.
The board wants to get the rail plans in high gear.

Tria says when it's done, it will be worth it to Bay area commuters.

"Everyone has to remember that a journey of 10,000 miles begins with one step," said Tria.

Sebesta says a Bay area commuter rail system could also connect to a high-speed Orlando/Miami rail system. He says a company called the Global Rail Consortium has offered $400 million in private money to help get the project started.
http://www.baynews9.com/content/36/2004/7/7/48043.html

Interesting indeed. I certainly hope that they can get something going with our mass transit system other than a one-leg trolley line.

What worries me is that folks see the interstate being reconstructed and think that this will solve our transportation woes for the next 25-50 years. problem is, once that multi-phase project is finally completed almost 10 years from now, it will already be on the verge of being outdated and overly congested.

Thank God for john Sebesta, may he live a long, long life.

2 Rail Systems Must Connect, Sebesta Says
By JOE HUMPHREY jhumphrey@tampatrib.com
Published: Jul 8, 2004




PINELLAS PARK - Proposed rail systems in Pinellas and Hillsborough counties share a notable flaw as vast as the Bay that divides them.
As drawn, the systems don't connect.

That's not nearly as significant as the reality that neither plan is funded, but it's a gap one Bay area legislator is trying to bridge.

Pinellas County wants to build a 38-mile, $1.5 billion monorail system linking Clearwater and St. Petersburg. In Tampa, the Hillsborough Area Regional Transit Authority has a $1.4 billion plan to connect the University of South Florida, downtown Tampa and the West Shore area via light rail. Both concepts stick to their sides of Tampa Bay, at least for now.

``Pinellas has a plan. Hillsborough has a plan. Where is the cross-the-Bay plan?'' state Sen. Jim Sebesta said.

Sebesta, R-St. Petersburg, chairman of the Senate Transportation Committee, gathered politicians and transportation officials from seven Bay area counties Wednesday to talk about regional cooperation on transit issues, including the notion of ensuring any rail service is regional and not bound by county lines or waterways.

Rail supporters say it's needed because more pavement isn't a long-term solution to handling population growth and traffic gridlock.

Rough estimates by the Florida Department of Transportation predict more than 25,000 passengers a day would use rail to travel between Hillsborough and Pinellas. On the low end, the number could be less than 10,000.

About 346,000 vehicles are expected to travel between the counties each day by 2025, according to the same study.

DOT District VII Secretary Ken Hartmann said Wednesday that the potential for travel across the Bay is significant enough to warrant further study. Bob Clifford, the DOT's district planning director, said, ``We believe an across-the-Bay crossing is viable.''

Where that crossing would occur remains far from clear, as does the potential cost.

Sebesta said he is determined to make sure the systems connect, even marching out a slogan Wednesday: ``We're gonna build this sucker unless somebody stops us.''

He later announced to the group, ``Obviously we've got a ton of work left to do.''

HARTline approved the Tampa Rail Project in 2001, but a request to help pay for the project with a sales tax hasn't made it to a ballot. That, in turn, has jeopardized the $700 million in matching funding expected from the Federal Transit Administration.

In an annual report, the national agency warned that the project could lose its shot at federal funding if ``progress is not made on improving its financial status.''

Monorail planners in Pinellas are preparing to ship their proposal to Washington for federal approval. Pinellas County Commissioner John Morroni said Wednesday he's skeptical about the monorail's chance of opening in the next 25 years, much less the Sebesta plan to create a regional system.

``Sen. Sebesta's plan is really a wish list of what would really be the ideal plan,'' he said.

Louis Miller, who leads Tampa International Airport, said connectivity is essential to the success of a rail plan and a rail plan is essential to the success of the Bay area.

Miller said the airport has reserved land for the Tampa Rail Project to pass through TIA. Furthermore, he said, a local rail project is more important than the statewide high-speed rail system Florida voters OK'd in 1998.

``I'm just not so sure about the high-speed rail from city to city,'' he said. ``If that happens, that's OK. I'm more focused on the commuter rail transit.''

Sebesta said high-speed rail, local service and other transit offerings such as buses and trolleys must work together to improve mobility.

He described his vision of passengers able to board a local rail service at the Pinellas beaches, head east to a station in Tampa and then switch to high-speed service that would carry passengers to Orlando - ``to Mouse- ville,'' he said - or on to Miami.

``I hope you share that vision,'' he said Wednesday. ``Because that's where we need to go.''

Sebesta spoke much more generally about the notion of expanding rail service beyond Hillsborough and Pinellas, telling leaders from Hernando to Sarasota counties that he eventually sees rail coming to them.


Reporter Joe Humphrey can be reached at (813) 259-7691.

http://tampatrib.com/floridametronews/MGB9HO4EEWD.html

It's skeptics like this John Morroni who tick me off. Only an idiot would stand there and talk of a light rail proposal and not include some connection to Hillsborough county.

How about the old Gandy bridge. The sucker is already there, they'd just need to run the lines across. Do you all think that would work?

That wouldn't work, only because niether system comes all that close to it. On the Tampa side, things are the worst, because the prposed system doesn't really go south of Kennedy, which lines right up with the Hoawrd Franklin.

Personally, I would rather give up a lane each direction on the HFB before I would spend the money to get down to the old Gandy bridge, and deal with that political nightmare.

And ultimately, I'm not sure if either existing bridge could withstand the wieght of trains without a costly retrofit.

Nice article. Thats what i thought we needed anyway, not a light rail, but a monrail, that could connect St Pete, to Clearwater, to Tampa. Plus Monrail's look nicer then light rail.

The best thing about monorail is ROW separation from roads. The bad thing is that it is much more visible, as it is typically 20-30ft up in the air. It also costs more on a per mile basis, and has significantly higher maintainence costs. But I also think that a monorail system might be the best for all involved, so longas we can find the funding for it.

And as long as the three cities can agree on a regional system, rather than county system.

Speaking of developments...I'm not sure Media General owns that property over on Kennedy and Parker St. I've asked people around the office and they say it's owned by someone else. Maybe MG used to own it, but not anymore, from what I'm told. Also, I noticed some workers over there installing some electric lines that I'm told would be for construction trailers. Would that be the case? If so, is there something about to happen there?

MG doesn't own that land. It is instead by 3 different development corporations, which are in reality all owned by the same private investors. They're called cute names like Hillsborough Realty Group, and Hillsborough River Group and so on.

I can't imagine anything is going to be built there unless there is some stealth anchor tennant, which I doubt, becuase if they got one they would be yelling from the roof tops to get more tennants. I does not matter, it should be condos with retail on the bottom anyway. One day the developer, who is bizarrely stubborn, will see that.

Thank God for john Sebesta, may he live a long, long life.

2 Rail Systems Must Connect, Sebesta Says
By JOE HUMPHREY jhumphrey@tampatrib.com
Published: Jul 8, 2004


PINELLAS PARK - Proposed rail systems in Pinellas and Hillsborough counties share a notable flaw as vast as the Bay that divides them.
As drawn, the systems don't connect.

That's not nearly as significant as the reality that neither plan is funded, but it's a gap one Bay area legislator is trying to bridge.

Pinellas County wants to build a 38-mile, $1.5 billion monorail system linking Clearwater and St. Petersburg. In Tampa, the Hillsborough Area Regional Transit Authority has a $1.4 billion plan to connect the University of South Florida, downtown Tampa and the West Shore area via light rail. Both concepts stick to their sides of Tampa Bay, at least for now.

``Pinellas has a plan. Hillsborough has a plan. Where is the cross-the-Bay plan?'' state Sen. Jim Sebesta said.

Sebesta, R-St. Petersburg, chairman of the Senate Transportation Committee, gathered politicians and transportation officials from seven Bay area counties Wednesday to talk about regional cooperation on transit issues, including the notion of ensuring any rail service is regional and not bound by county lines or waterways.

Rail supporters say it's needed because more pavement isn't a long-term solution to handling population growth and traffic gridlock.

Rough estimates by the Florida Department of Transportation predict more than 25,000 passengers a day would use rail to travel between Hillsborough and Pinellas. On the low end, the number could be less than 10,000.

About 346,000 vehicles are expected to travel between the counties each day by 2025, according to the same study.

DOT District VII Secretary Ken Hartmann said Wednesday that the potential for travel across the Bay is significant enough to warrant further study. Bob Clifford, the DOT's district planning director, said, ``We believe an across-the-Bay crossing is viable.''

Where that crossing would occur remains far from clear, as does the potential cost.

Sebesta said he is determined to make sure the systems connect, even marching out a slogan Wednesday: ``We're gonna build this sucker unless somebody stops us.''

He later announced to the group, ``Obviously we've got a ton of work left to do.''

HARTline approved the Tampa Rail Project in 2001, but a request to help pay for the project with a sales tax hasn't made it to a ballot. That, in turn, has jeopardized the $700 million in matching funding expected from the Federal Transit Administration.

In an annual report, the national agency warned that the project could lose its shot at federal funding if ``progress is not made on improving its financial status.''

Monorail planners in Pinellas are preparing to ship their proposal to Washington for federal approval. Pinellas County Commissioner John Morroni said Wednesday he's skeptical about the monorail's chance of opening in the next 25 years, much less the Sebesta plan to create a regional system.

``Sen. Sebesta's plan is really a wish list of what would really be the ideal plan,'' he said.

Louis Miller, who leads Tampa International Airport, said connectivity is essential to the success of a rail plan and a rail plan is essential to the success of the Bay area.

Miller said the airport has reserved land for the Tampa Rail Project to pass through TIA. Furthermore, he said, a local rail project is more important than the statewide high-speed rail system Florida voters OK'd in 1998.

``I'm just not so sure about the high-speed rail from city to city,'' he said. ``If that happens, that's OK. I'm more focused on the commuter rail transit.''

Sebesta said high-speed rail, local service and other transit offerings such as buses and trolleys must work together to improve mobility.

He described his vision of passengers able to board a local rail service at the Pinellas beaches, head east to a station in Tampa and then switch to high-speed service that would carry passengers to Orlando - ``to Mouse- ville,'' he said - or on to Miami.

``I hope you share that vision,'' he said Wednesday. ``Because that's where we need to go.''

Sebesta spoke much more generally about the notion of expanding rail service beyond Hillsborough and Pinellas, telling leaders from Hernando to Sarasota counties that he eventually sees rail coming to them.


Reporter Joe Humphrey can be reached at (813) 259-7691.

http://tampatrib.com/floridametronews/MGB9HO4EEWD.html

Oh SURE! A year or more after I talk to the guy and lobby this idea, he finally gets on board and stresses the need for inter-action between the two rail lines. I've bitched to both county commissions and I have gone off on SSP's forums about light rail in Tampa Bay and Now Jimmy boy finally gets his ass in gear over things...

Still, the one flaw in the Sebesta plan (which I don't have any more) right now is that the connection through rail between Tampa and Pinellas would be down south through the Gandy or Howard Franklin bridge cooridors. Of course, this connects Pinellas' flawed system to Tampa's but it costs more because it's an over-the-bay route instead of the Tampa Road / Hillsborough Avenue cooridor.

One question guys: Why are we talking Monorail and not Elevated Rail like what they have on Long Island with the LIRR? Or BART in San Francisco/Oakland?

I'm not sure, which one is cheaper / faster / more efficient?

The Hillsborough route is too far from major nodes of Interest in Tampa and requires you to wrap around the airport in a very inconvenient way.

Take the monorail - it can go anywhere. Elevated trains are just as expensive- if not more so due to wight issues and size of trakc issues - and uglier.

This is very interesting....

Center, Club XS Just Don't Mix

By ANDY REID areid@tampatrib.com
Published: Jul 9, 2004

TAMPA - The Tampa Convention Center wants taxpayer help to replace its nightclub neighbor, Club XS, with a tamer, arts-related attraction.
Convention center officials requested an extra $140,000 from next year's city budget to pay the estimated yearly rent on the building at 238 Franklin St. that houses Club XS.

One idea calls for creating a community arts center, possibly housing a theater group, in the downtown building.

Some conventioneers are ``intimidated'' by the nightclub, put off by factors that include the name and the fact that the warehouse-style building is closed during the day, said John Moors, convention center administrator.

``It would be nice to have a business in there that would be conducive to what we're trying to do in the convention district,'' Moors said.

A partnership, including members of the law firm of Bush, Ross, Gardner, Warren & Rudy, owns the building that houses Club XS. The law firm shares the block with the nightclub.

The owners have had talks with convention center officials and are willing to consider bringing in a new tenant, said lawyer Jeffrey Warren, one of the owners.

``There have been for a long time a variety of discussions about doing something,'' Warren said. ``The Club XS property is on a very short-term lease.''

Representatives for Club XS, which is open Friday, Saturday and Sunday nights, could not be reached for comment.

On Friday and Saturday nights, the club usually draws a couple hundred people. The crowd ballons to about 1,500 on Sundays, when it's open from 11:30 p.m. to 3 a.m., police spokeswoman Laura McElroy said.

The late-night hours mean Club XS crowds typically don't mix with convention center visitors or patrons of other downtown businesses, she said.

The club hires off-duty police officers for security, and the police department sends more at closing time to help with the crowd, McElroy said.

``When you have 1,500 people pouring out of the club at 3 in the morning, ... there tends to be unruly behavior,'' McElroy said. ``Fights are common in the parking lots outside the club.''

A man working security at Club XS was stabbed in the chest trying to break up a fight in January, police said. In July 2002, a man was shot and killed outside the club. Another man was shot and killed outside the club in 2001. In 1998, a police officer shot and killed a 17-year-old boy who had opened fire outside the club.

Moors said the presence of the nightclub across the street from the convention center raises concerns with religious groups the facility courts.

A new theater group, Acorn Theatre, is looking for a downtown home and has toured the Club XS building, said Paul Wilborn, the city's creative industries manager.

A theater company could share the building with other arts-related activities and spillover convention events, Wilborn said.

The convention center has already asked for an extra $202,000 from the city to hire off-duty police officers to help improve the perception of security.

The convention center funding requests come as city officials shape next year's budget. This year's $646 million city budget included $7 million for personnel and operating expenses at the convention center.

Mayor Pam Iorio's administration plans to present its budget proposal next month.

Urban Appeal Pays Off For Channel District
By JANIS D. FROELICH jfroelich@tampatrib.com
Published: Jul 8, 2004







TAMPA - Channel District developer Doug Weber was thrilled to hear that nearly all 260 units at The Towers at Channelside have been reserved.
Weber's Seaport Town Center won't break ground until next year, and his 200-plus units mostly will be rentals. But he thinks the more success other developers have in the area, the better his chances to charge upscale rent, close to what neighboring Harbour Island gets.

``These pre-sales are important,'' he said of the 12 projects in various stages of development in the Channel District. ``They offer a real glimpse of what the market dictates as far as sale and rental prices.''

Weber said The Towers hit its price point, with most units selling for $275,000 to $375,000 in the twin towers to be built across from the Channelside complex.

``Now they're probably wishing they had charged more,'' he said.

When the Channel District residential community was envisioned, the idea was to have austere lofts in a funky neighborhood across from the Port of Tampa cruise terminals.

Prices announced less than two years ago were starting at $155,000 in Channelside 212 Lofts on 12th Street, and $150,000 in Victory Lofts at 12th and Whiting streets.

Some units from other developers are less than $250,000, but most of them are efficiencies or one-bedroom units.

Now the emphasis is on larger, more expensive units with loads of amenities, such as concierge services and terrace pools with spa areas.

``In the initial stage, we all thought the Channel District would be more lower priced than most of South Tampa,'' said Tampa's urban planning manager, Wilson Stair. ``But this area has taken off on a life of its own.''

Stair, a city staff member for 15 years, said he has never seen anything like the explosion in Channel District residential property.

``The prices might eventually readjust because of the growing competition,'' he said. ``But I'm as surprised as anyone that people in the upper economic bracket want to live there.''

Stair said the reason may be that Harbour Island is built out. Also, he said, the stigma of urban living has faded.

``The Channel District just isn't any urban area, too. It's interesting there with the mix of port industry, The Florida Aquarium and the Times Forum,'' he said.

Nick Pavonetti, who is overseeing The Beck Group's Victory Lofts project, said ``the people who bought early made a very good investment.''

Of its 89 units, Victory has four penthouses remaining, priced at about $850,000.

``The prices were bound to go up,'' said Bill Ware, who is building an 84-unit project, called Ventana, at Kennedy Boulevard and Channelside Drive. Prices start in the mid- $200,000s.

Ware said buyers also are demanding more. He plans 24- hour concierge service, a terrace pool area with fitness room, two parking spaces per unit, storage lockers and verandas.

``That's why I've been so careful not to prematurely come out with a list of prices set in stone,'' Ware said. ``A lot will also depend on building costs and whether they continue to climb.''

Truett Gardner, developer of the Meridian at Whiting and 12th streets, made the mistake of setting prices too soon.

The Meridian's 35 units were priced from $200,000 to $450,000. After building costs went up, Gardner had to cancel contracts. Prices have climbed to $245,000 to $500,000, and he has been able to add two more units.

The Tampa lawyer since has sold 21 units in the art deco building and plans to finish construction by next year.

``It was funny with us, but the higher-end units went first,'' he said.

Brooks Byrd, vice president of Byrd Corp., said the company never planned to sell for less than $200,000 at the Downtown Channelside complex next to Channelside. The 250 units in two 30-story towers with shops and restaurants will range from 1,500 to 4,000 square feet.

``We're on the water so this is premium real estate,'' Byrd said.

Because of rising building costs, he is careful in quoting prices. ``We'll do more detailed design drawings,'' he said.

Byrd said he hopes to put a sales center on the property late this fall and to begin construction early next year.

Byrd, whose family built the GrandView in Harbour Island, said he is excited to begin building on the 1.8-acre parking lot.

``I read the study from the Downtown Tampa Partnership about the pent-up demand for downtown housing,'' Byrd said. ``You never know what to believe of these studies. But this one sounds true.''


Reporter Janis D. Froelich can be reached at (813) 259-7143.
http://centraltampa.tbo.com/centraltampa/MGBX3HEWEWD.html

Just keeps on rocking

Model Building
By JANIS D. FROELICH jfroelich@tampatrib.com
Published: Jul 8, 2004







TAMPA - Developer Fida Sirdar was asked by a friend what he planned to do with the junky warehouse he bought as part of his 2.2 acres in the Channel District.
``I told him he hasn't been by lately,'' said Sirdar, who has transformed the property between Channelside Drive and 12th Street into a Discovery Center.

Sirdar is using the remodeled warehouse at 918 Channelside Drive as a sales center for his development, The Place.

In addition to a full-scale, two-bedroom model, there are bright blue and yellow sales rooms and wall displays of floor plans and color patterns for floors and counter tops. Plus, there is a large architectural model of The Place. Sirdar even has invested in landscaping.

Sirdar plans to bulldoze the warehouse by year's end when construction starts for The Place.

A few blocks over, Ken Stoltenberg has launched his Grand Central at Kennedy project in style. Although the sales office and model condominium are housed in a sizable portable at 1208 E. Kennedy Blvd., a visitor would be able to more than just visualize a new home. The Viking stainless steel appliance kitchen, complete with washer and dryer under the granite island counter, is in place.

``Everything you see here is what you get,'' Stoltenberg said of his 370-unit, mixed-use project where he hopes to add a grocery store. ``Getting out a tape measure and pacing the floor to figure out how much space these units have just isn't going to cut it.''

The two developers agree that because urban living is new in Tampa, buyers need to see full-scale condominium models. In addition, customers need colorful visuals of what the poolside cabanas will look like or the rooftop grilling area.

``In large cities such as Chicago and Boston these kind of hybrid loft/condo floor plans are common. But not here,'' Sirdar said.

Sirdar said he didn't want buyers to see bits and pieces, so he went to the expense of having a fully furnished model where the glass balcony area has a table and chairs ready for wine sipping.

``A person walks into this 1,030-square-foot unit and they say, `OK, I can live here,' '' said Stoltenberg, walking into a $268,910 Magenta model unit.

This elaborate approach seems to be working. Sirdar has a list of 600 potential buyers for his 243 units. The Place offers nine 600-square-foot efficiencies beginning at $150,000, with other units ranging up to $1 million.

Sirdar's plans include ``a European-style shopping area'' with wide sidewalks for a cafe environment, in addition to artists' galleries.

In one week, Stoltenberg took reservations for 200 units. Grand Central at Kennedy offers 34 studios priced at $150,000-plus up to $1 million penthouses.

The complex plans a grocery store, retail stores, a community theater and an art gallery. Once residents are under contract, they will be asked what stores and services they want.

``If someone had a great sushi experience in Atlanta, we'll try to bring it here,'' Stoltenberg said.


Reporter Janis D. Froelich can be reached at (813) 259-7143.

The Hillsborough route is too far from major nodes of Interest in Tampa and requires you to wrap around the airport in a very inconvenient way.


WHy wrap around it when you can go through it? Look at Hillsborough's planned route and it goes to the main terminal at TIA. They plan on building a second terminal in the future north of the main one.... Meaning you can just keep going north with the rail route to interesect Hillsborough avenue.

First, tehre is nothing on Hillsborough near the airport to put a train for. Second, The northern route ignores the logic of putting the connection at teh center of population (Gateway). Third, you will need to bridge the bay anyway, so do it first before it becomes even more expensive. Fourth, that is a very long route with little return.

They could do it on the Causeway - don't need as much bridge, but then you run into number 2. They should just bridge it and be done - Westshore to Gateway, connect both airports - that would be a route people will ride.

First, tehre is nothing on Hillsborough near the airport to put a train for. Second, The northern route ignores the logic of putting the connection at teh center of population (Gateway).

Excuse me but CENTER OF POPULATION? You're talking about a business district when you talk about Gateway. They're only NOW starting to put any residential or "Population" in Gateway.

Meanwhiel you still have thousands transversing the top of the bay. You read Sebesta talking about having a route from Hernando county? Well, where did you expect it to connect to? The USF Leg of a Light rail ssytem?

For commuter purposes, an extension running across county lines over land would make just as much sense as having a commuter leg running down I-275. The only difference is that citizens could reach statiosn on Hillsborough avenue whereas you can't just walk to a station on I-275. That would require it's own sepeate construction.


They could do it on the Causeway - don't need as much bridge, but then you run into number 2. They should just bridge it and be done - Westshore to Gateway, connect both airports - that would be a route people will ride.

Yeah, that's smart. Lets connect the airports directly... :

Can you say redundant? :rolleyes

I'm not saying a land route shoukd be the only route but it would be the same old good-ole-boy network to plan a single spur accross the bay and think that's the only leg that is needed. North Pinellas boast just as many commuters to Tampa as commuters to points south. THe difference in both plans presented (by Sebesta and by Pinellas county commissioners) is "to hell with North Pinellas. It's not like they need transit alternatives" :P It's not like those in Westchase need transit alternatives or anyone at the top of the Bay :rolleyes:

John, Smiley is right man.... Gateway IS the center of population, with Westshore being basically the geographic center of the area... The connection between those two areas is so logical, it's not even funny.

Putting the county to county connection almost at the very northen end of Pinellas, and way up in the w-nw end of Hillsborough will only serve a few select communities, like Oldsmar, Palm Harbor and points north. This would be almost completely serving a residential dominated area, which has no 'magnet' attractions to speak of. That's an OK place to run a commuter line for a park and ride setup for folks who live in northern Pinellas, but work in Westshore or DT Tampa, but it is a TERRIBLE way to connect the two counties in a meaningful way, which results in convenient cross traffic between the two counties.

Connecting the airports directly is highly compelling, as it then allows residents of both counties very easy access for a park and ride setup to go to work or to fly out of town. Airports are a very compelling location for an intermodal center, since they are already epicenters of traffic, especially tourists, who don't bring thier car with them.

BTW, as you already know John, I've got friends that live up your way, and friends who work up your way. I simply don't see a culture up there which leads me to believe that more than a few hundred folks a day would forego thier cars to ride mass transit to work, or for play or what have you. Besdies, the demographics for Northern Pinellas aren't very compelling either. It's a less dense, younger, whiter, more affluent population, who generally moved there because they wanted the suburban, auto dependent lifestyle.

This contrasts to many other population centers elsewhere in Pinellas, where the folks are older, poorer, "touristy", and generally much more receptive to riding mass transit when it is convenient for them to access...PTSA's own ridership numbers and research bear this out.

Gateway is in the mIddle of Pinellas, basically - thus the center of population, not a population center. There is a difference.

Connecting Gateway to teh Tampa airport and Westhore to St. Pete airport does make sense, it also happen to be basically the same route. People from North Pinellas going to tampa - usually Westhore - can just as easily go through Gateway as Hillsborough - and, by the way, no one is walking to HIllsborough in the near to mid future. THere is also a natural connection of the two for work reasons.

No one said don't put a northern route, but teh Middle route should be first. It is also the closest point of connection as the Pinnelas plan runs close to Gateway and the tampa plan runs to Westshore.

Like I said long ago:

Builder Sues City In Tower Dispute
By SHEENA FOSTER sfoster@tampatrib.com
Published: Jul 10, 2004




BAYSHORE - After more than a year of deliberations and rejections, the developer of a proposed condominium tower is taking the fight to court.
Citivest Construction Corp. and its development partner City National Bank of Florida sued the city this week, claiming the proposed 24-story high-rise at DeSoto Avenue and Bayshore Boulevard meets zoning standards and should move forward.

The lawsuit, filed in Hillsborough Circuit Court, also contends the developer has spent $1 million on the project already.

But Old Hyde Park homeowners say the developer isn't seeing the larger picture. They continue to oppose the project proposed for a 1.2-acre site in the Hyde Park Historic District.

Jeanne Holton Carufel, president of the Historic Hyde Park Neighborhood Association, said the condo height is not the only problem.

``Height, scale, massing, density, how it relates to the buildings directly adjacent to it. How it relates to the historic district as a whole, not just in size,'' said Carufel, a 30-year resident. ``So you really can't just take one aspect of that and say, `Why don't you just make it be just this high?' and that's it.''

Carufel said the neighborhood is trying to protect historic district standards.

``We are in danger, as all historic districts are, of losing our designation in not sticking to the rules we fought so hard to get in the first place,'' she said.

The city's Architectural Review Commission found the 24-story tower would be out of place in the historic district. The city council last month backed the commission's decision. The commission also rejected the original 31-story version and wouldn't consider a 20-story proposal.

In a May letter, the National Trust for Historic Preservation urged the city council to ``uphold the [architectural commission's] decision. In our view ... the proposed structure would be vastly out of scale with neighboring properties and ... the historic district as a whole.''

City Attorney David Smith said of the Citivest lawsuit: ``Our [architectural commission] review has made a correct decision and we're going to defend that decision.''

Citivest President William Robinson declined to comment through an assistant.

Tampa lawyer Scott McLaren, who represents Citivest and City National Bank, said the site has been zoned for a high-rise for decades. He called the architectural commission's guidelines ``very, very vague.''

``They are virtually very subjective and they're capable of countless reasonable interpretations,'' McLaren said.

Beth Johnson, a member of the Historic Hyde Park civic group and a lawyer, said the developer's ``legal arguments don't have merit.''

``We want something that is compatible with adjacent designated structures,'' Johnson said.


Reporter Sheena Foster can be reached at (813) 835-2104.

http://tampatrib.com/News/MGB0A6OUGWD.html

This isn't going to be very difficult to win in court IMO. The surrounding structures which are relevant to this site typically have highrises on them as well, in accordance with their zoning. Also, on other highrise designated lots within the Hyde Park historic district (like One Bayshore) also have highrises on them. Plus, the land IS already zoned highrise and high density as well. Landowners have rights, and what these guys are proposing is totally within the predetermined development rights of thier property. SFAIK, thier project isn't asking for any significant variance of any kind. Exactly where is the precedent conducive to the NIMBY position?

As much as I'd like to see another tall building go up in Tampa, I think I'm gonna hafta agree with the NIMBY's in Hyde Park on this one. I'm sure they can find another spot for this condo somewhere up the road. If not, theres plenty of empty spots in downtown.

Do you know where this site is? It's almost directly adjacent to several other highrises on Bayshore. It isn't even in 'Hyde Park' per se. It is simply at the end of a sliver of land in the district, which jutted down to Bayshore Blvd, for some reason.

I would much rather they build the tower in the preexisting dense area of Bayshore, leaving the nicer, single family mansion areas fully intact. And besides, the apartment buildingh this project would replace is a hellhole IMO.

The lot is empty. The court case is complicated, especially by the connection of both parties. I know a guy who works with thedeveloper so I hope they get it going eventually. though, as I have said before, I am happy to let this wait a while while downtown gets more developed.

???? I thought that this still did, or used to have a rathole 3 story apartment building on it? Hell, maybe that's nearby and I'm thinking of the wrong lot...

THe apartments are next door and are used cosntantly byt he Hyde Park folks as an example of a "contributing structure." This lawsuit will go on a while. Too much money and too many connections. Don't hold your breath - especailly since it will go to appeals.

Do you know where this site is? It's almost directly adjacent to several other highrises on Bayshore. It isn't even in 'Hyde Park' per se. It is simply at the end of a sliver of land in the district, which jutted down to Bayshore Blvd, for some reason.

I would much rather they build the tower in the preexisting dense area of Bayshore, leaving the nicer, single family mansion areas fully intact. And besides, the apartment buildingh this project would replace is a hellhole IMO.

Well if that's the case, then I say build it up.

Si I drove aroubd Ybor today and, indeed, a nunber of those fine projects are in various states of completion. The area is still a bit spotty, but a lot of the bungalow type houses are renovated and the new stuff is pretty nice (at least most of it). In a few years that area will be totally different. The nice thing is that the projects are small so many of them can go without too many sales and they add a good urban scale (2-3 stories) to that area, which it needs.

In other news, the Meridian lot in Channelside is now fenced off - Victory Lofts was using it for staging. THe road project is coming along, though I did not check the connections to the grid on the west side. The sales centers had quite full parking lots, which I found interesting. I doubt they have ten people on staff at all times.

All in all, I think things are moving along.

I saw much the same thing around Channelside Yesterday before I worked at the garage. The rate at which projects are selling is quite shocking. Most of the larger projects for Channelside that we've heard about indicate that they already have enough presales to go forward with construction. It seems that alot of what was going to take 5 years to get built will be going up in more like 9-18 months.

Salad days for Tampa.

The way things are going, I wouldn't be completely shocked to see HRT go ahead.

Only if it changes its program. There is way too much office space in the pipeline in Westshore and Gateway, which are still more compelling markets. Especially Westshore, where there is already a good 2-3 million square feet of office space proposed.

Is there a possibility, however slim, that the now critical momentum established DT might siphon interest from Westshore ?

I am waiting for the day when there are cranes all over doowntown - so I can finally get that picture.

I don't think so Dale. Not with I-275 being reconstructed over the next several years. Access to DT will get considerably worse before it gets better. Westshore's location is simply too compelling for most businesses, unless they interact with the govt regularly.

I think it may create interest in downtown, but I am not sure it will pull from Westshore itself. Eventually, downtown will be nicer than Westshore generally, and that will make a difference.

What people are forgetting here is that Westhore is far from static. The airport is growing, the Links I+II projects will REALLY help with access to Westshore, and there are multiple residential projects planned for the Westshore market, specifically off Lois, where there is a sizable project planned for both the NE and SE corners of the Lois/Boyscout intersection. These two projects alone, if built, will provide a place to live for like 1500 people.

It'll be nice to see Westshore and DT thrive together, as well as the improvements along Franklin which are bound to occur as a result.

Do you mean Kennedy Blvd, the road generally connecting the two?

Do you mean Kennedy Blvd, the road generally connecting the two?

Yeah, my bad.

What do you all think of The Place at Channelside? I stopped in their sales center on Friday and I was extremely impressed with their presentation/detail.

It was the first time I walked into a pre-sale condo center and saw the amount of marketing that they had (i.e. real model home, scaled building model, technology demonstrations, and sample finishes). You could tell they put a lot of time and energy in their rollout.

I think they'll do well. After seeing their presentation and sales center, I think they probably have the best shot of the bunch. Especially since they said they are requiring people to go straight to contract...

What do you all think? Has anyone else stopped in their sales center yet?

I have been to their sales center. they have a very nice product. Some great standard features. I can't believe the price they are asking. 1798 Sq/ft 2 bed 2 bath $560K to start. The 2300 sq/ft was over $900K. I also looked at Grand central and though not quite as nice as The Place, they have some great standard features too, such as all Viking appliances. The Grand Central was much more reasonably priced and definately a better value,IMO.

Just one year ago I paid $167 a sq/ft on the water, looking at downtown, just 2 blocks from Channelside. These Channelside prices are just a little hard for me to swallow, but people seem to be willing to pay them.

I've heard from numerous people that The Place was now asking $300+ per sq. foot for what they have left (as of Saturday). When I went in last week, they were asking $240-$250 a foot, and disclosing that last Friday night there would be a substantial price increase.

As part of Grand Centrals grand opening this past weekend, they were asking about $275-$300 a foot, which is what caused me to think the place is a better value. Especially since they have a 10% price esclation clause in their reservation agreements, which their sales rep indicated they will definitely enforce for about 5-7%.

I'm renting on Harbour Island and looked over their at their one and two bedrooms. They had a 950 sq. ft one bedroom for $231,900 (overlooking channelside drive) and a 1100 sq. ft one bedroom/den for $281,900 (overlooking channelside drive as well).

I agree with you about prices in Channelside. I don't see why the price sq/ft is the same or slightly higher than harbour island. Maybe in 3-5 years, Channelside will be considered as highly as Harbour Island? (Hopefully with lower HOA fess though). Heck, even Meridian and Victory are asking over $250 sq/ft and their "finishes" aren't nearly as nice as either The Place or Grand Central...

Those prices are insane. I had seriously intended to buy something DT in the next year, but at those prices, developers can kiss it. Even if I actually could afford those prices, I wouldn't pay those prices.

Looks like I'll be moving somewhere else along Kennedy or something.

Yes, those prices are absured. I've been trying to organize people in Emerge Tampa to start pushing city council to develop NoDo / N. Franklin St. with more affordable housing to encourage more young professionals, artists and musician types to move downtown. Channelside is going to become a big pretentious extention of Hyde Park. We really need a neighborhood downtown with character and soul.

I think there's a better chance of it developing in the cruddy district west of UT, north of Kennedy and south of Cass. DT s home to fatcats and big developers, and perhaps rightly so. It is DT, and it should be the epicenter of most things, especially the real estate market.

What grates me is knowing that in most cases, these prices aren't really needed. Most developers got thier land pretty damn cheap, are paying low, low interest rates on thier loans, and loft construction is also quite cheap (relatively speaking). I'm quite certain that in most projects, they are doing a bit of 'profiteering', by having margins north of 30%.

I keep telling you Jasonhouse...you and Smiley need to join Emerge Tampa. If anything, just to help be a voice for development!

how old must you be and where do you get info? How much does it cost? How many meetigns are you supposed to attend? Etc.

From talking with some of the developers in Channelside, they seem to be worried that construction costs are going up at a faster rate while their projects are under construction.

I think they are trying to pad the prices in case they're right. I just think though that it's causing hysteria right now with people trying to buy stuff up before the next anticipated (rightly or wrongly) price "wave".

Smiley... The age range is basically 21 - 40. The cost depends on whether your company is a member of the Tampa Chamber or not. I'm not positive on all the details, but you can check everything out at EmergeTampa.com (http://www.emergetampa.com)

I don't think I could stand hearing a bunch of young folks sitting around, learning how to be more corporate, if you know what I mean. I usually dont' play too well with the corporate activist types, because my sentiments about many things generally run counter to thiers.

:cucumber: Ha Ha... dude, I feel ya on that one. I'm usually the only one in the meetings wearing t-shirts, jeans, and belt-buckles. But seriously, most of the people there are in this organization to help Tampa be a better place. I think most are from a corporate background, but that's just because Emerge is a Chamber program and most of the interest was initially generated from Chamber member companies.

Honestly, we need all types of people in Emerge to be fully successful in changing Tampa. We need input from all parts of society and non-corporate individuals is just one angle. Like I've said before on this forum, we need to bring young professionals together from all cultures to make sure downtown Tampa and surrounding neighborhoods develop into the creative centers found in cities like NY, San Fran, and Seattle.

Does anyone know, how many residential units are either planned or under construction in downtown?

I don't know man, I don't want to be the old guy in the back of the room everyone thinks is some kind of consultant judging them. The people on that website sure smile a lot.

hehehe.... Smiley how old are you? (cmon man, quit being so evasive!) I'm 30, if it helps. :)



dvstampa, Seriously, I'm just a little too far south of broke right now to be joining anything. besides, I don't even work in the industry right now, I just go to school, and run these silly websites. If I get the job with the county, I think I might join though. (for real)

Afterall, mugging for the camera is one of my better attributes. :D It's when I open my mouth that I get in trouble. Way too honest and opinionated, which is a BAD combination in this day and age.

Here's a pic of that rendering for apartments on Lois I mentioned a while back. A friend from school got his mitts on this, though I don't know how. I think he is interning at the architecture firm that designed it.

http://skyscraperpage.com/gallery/data/500/68lois_project.jpg


This is on Lois near Boyscout, and has about 375 units.

Combined with a similar sized proposal on some Metlife property near Lois and Spruce, they could result in about 1500+ new residents in the Westshore area. Yay! I think the proposal on the Metlife property is supposed to be taller, though I have no idea if it would be significantly so.

And Smiley sent me a scan from Tampa's Sunday paper, and I massaged it a good bit, to clean it up...


http://skyscraperpage.com/gallery/data/500/68tampa_mofa_1.jpg



And I really worked this one, so that folks can see the finnials which provide solar shading for the museum's interior spaces, while still
allowing good natural light. I think this musuem will look much better than it does here, as I think it will practically shimmer in the
afternoon sun. Of course, I don't know how UT folks are going to feel about the possibility of glare though. Maybe it will have more
of a matte finish.

http://skyscraperpage.com/gallery/data/500/68tampa_mofa_2.jpg

I really hope this gets built. It will definetely add some character to downtown.

A friend and I were in Tampa today and spent time in various neighborhoods. First of all, I had no idea there were tons of townhomes and condos going up all over Ybor, its really starting to fill in and like smiley said in a previous post, its going to be quite the place to be in a few years time. All those bungalows are getting a new look. Also we ended up on the other side of Ybor across I-4, I guess the poorer, ghetto area, but I really liked it. It was awesome, IMO, and there are also tons of bungalows and such under renovation there.

We then went over into the Hyde Park neighborhood and that was my first time there and it was wonderful. I didn't realize there were so many condos and townhomes either already there or under construction, its a very urban neighborhood (in Florida standards) and just nice. I could see a trolley or lightrail running into that area in the years to come. Bayshore was of course beautiful and the reason we were there was for a tennis tournament at the Tampa Yacht and Beach Club and that was beautiful as well. All and all, I really enjoyed myself and the city.

These are under construction and some are already done, they look better in person:
http://www.yborrealty.com/images/projects/YborVillageLofts2_600.jpg
http://www.yborrealty.com/images/projects/YborVillageLofts3_600.jpg

Holy crap, that Las Brisas thing is huge. I wish they had done two buildings a bit taller with a bit smaller footprint. That thing is massive. IF something else goes up on the MetLife land, that would be very nice.

I did not really liek the art museum until I saw this rendering. Then I decided that I liked it. now I really want it built, particularly the way it open up the river.

I am older than 30 and younger than 40. I will not specify more than that. I have lived in this town sicne I was four and followed this stuff since I was about 12. I have seen it all. I am jaded and optimistic at the same time. I also don't have that much time to caucus with perky people. I want to get down to business - now. IF they do that, I will consider it.

I sent you an e-mail Smiley. That Lois apartment project has a BIG footprint indeed.

The Metlife thing is for real, as even the Trib mentioned it somewhere the other day. Or maybe I read it in the new issue of the TBBJ (7/09)? I can't remember now.

Planner Draws Up Artists' Enclave
By ANDY REID areid@tampatrib.com
Published: Jul 14, 2004




TAMPA - An effort to lure trendy, affordable housing downtown could include trading offices for artist lofts on north Franklin Street.
The Wilson Co. has had preliminary talks with the city about creating homes for artists at the block of buildings it owns on the east side of Franklin, between Zack and Twiggs streets. The idea includes converting a seven-story section of the Franklin Exchange building from offices to lofts.

The lofts would be priced to attract people who can't afford high-rise condominiums proposed for the Channel District.

More specifically, the goal would be to draw people willing to move to an area of downtown dominated by vacant buildings and businesses left shuttered after 5 p.m.

``Artists move in where angels fear to tread,'' said Wendy Ceccherelli, the city's arts and cultural affairs director. ``They make an area trendy.''

No plans are concrete yet, but artist lofts would be a progressive way to aid city efforts to use the arts to lure residents and businesses downtown, said Harry Costello, a Wilson Co. spokesman.

Artists could move in just south of the Tampa Theatre and north of restaurants that cater to the office lunchtime crowd. A block to the east, developers are vying for a chance to turn the old federal courthouse into everything from a hotel to a museum.

``There seems to be a dynamic that is evolving along Franklin Street,'' Costello said. ``It's only going to continue.''

The Wilson Co. promotes the area by hanging art on the outside of its 22-story office tower on Franklin Street. The lofts would be in the seven- story office building between the high-rise and the original three-story exchange building, Costello said.

The buildings now house offices for lawyers, engineers and other professionals.

The city is trying to attract residential and retail development downtown with a riverwalk, waterside parks and a new art museum. Construction of the museum is expected to start this year.

Lofts have sprung up in the Channel District, and high-rise condo proposals for the southern end of downtown show the potential for bringing in people who want to be residents.

City officials want residential development to push north to vacant buildings in the Franklin Street area, with the hope of creating homes for a variety of income levels.

``Great downtowns have a mix of housing [and] an eclectic mix of people. That's what creates energy,'' said Mark Huey, the city's economic development administrator.

The city announced in the spring an effort to create an artists' enclave intended to spur economic development in Ybor City. The proposed East Village of the Arts - north of Interstate 4, between 12th and 19th streets - calls for starting with five houses and four apartment units to be leased to artists at a low rate.

The city contends if it helps artists move in and they help fix up a neighborhood, grocery stores and cafes and more houses will follow.

The Wilson Co., which produces commercial and affordable residential development, doesn't expect to finalize plans for its downtown properties until the end of the year.


Reporter Andy Reid can be reached at (813) 259-8409.

http://www.tampatrib.com/FloridaMetro/MGB1KKNUMWD.html

Eh, I can think of better things to do with that city owned property, that's for sure.

Why don't these guys go work on some of the crusty structures around the Stetson campus, or over to the south and west of UT?

More Condo Towers Slated For Bayshore

By JOSH POLTILOVE jpoltilove@tampatrib.com
Published: Jul 14, 2004

TAMPA - A development company plans to replace a Bayshore Boulevard apartment complex with two 20-story condominium towers.
Crescent Resources LLC, based in Charlotte, N.C., wants to build 156 condominiums at 319 Bayshore. The towers would replace the 72-unit The Bayshore Apartments near the Platt Street Bridge.

Tampa City Council will be asked Aug. 26 to approve the project.

Crescent Resources bought the 1.8-acre property for about $5 million in 2001. The condominium project will cost $50 million to $60 million, said Jim Smith, the company's vice president of multifamily development.

``We anticipate that the buyers will be folks who live in Hyde Park, Davis Islands ... who live in very large homes and would like to stay in the area,'' Smith said.

The project doesn't have a name or renderings yet, but units are expected to cost $600,000 to $1.2 million. They will range from 2,000 to 3,300 square feet, with two bedrooms and two bathrooms or three bedrooms and three bathrooms.

With council approval, construction will start in the spring or early summer next year and will open in 2007.

Sounds great, hopefully they won't attract much opposition.

Damn!!! I just drove by there yesterday and was thinking to myself "It's going to be any day now that those apartments go under to build something bigger"...Yay!

However, instead of two squatty 20 story towers, I would personally be doing just one 28-35 story tower, and leave the other part of the site open to build another structure at a later time. Maybe a mixed-use tower, or another large condo tower.


BTW, I checked out most DT and Bayshore projects yesterday, and things are still moving along, with nothing particularly earthshattering to report. The cool thing is that One Bayshore's facade is starting to show, as they have put up a few floors of windows, and are even working on the cornice molding.

The Parkshore in DT St Pete is up to the 2nd floor now.

A number of relevant thigs were left off that post

First:
http://news.tbo.com/news/MGBHB0QLNWD.html

Second:
"To read more about the condominium project, see Saturday's South Tampa section. "

Third, Good, they should build more stuff near downtown instead of further south. Let there be a condo district. Who nneds Hyde park.

Now what of the 25 story One Bayshore building?

Just noticed that Grand Central removed their penthouse and largest two bedroom units and broke them up into smaller floorplans. They also added 3 new 1 bedroom plans?

Does anyone know why this happened? It seems very odd, especially since they just had their grand opening last weekend and their already changing plans... Maybe this indicates that Channelside is now drawing a lower price point than earlier thought???

Anyways, the new plans seem to add extra functionality, which is something I thought had been missing from their floorplans (they felt more like an apartment than an upscale condo).

HCC Campus Expansion In Works


By JOSE PATINO GIRONA jpatino@tampatrib.com
Published: Jul 10, 2004


TAMPA - Wanting to boost the appeal of Drew Park and mix academics with private enterprise, Hillsborough Community College is planning a large development at its Dale Mabry Highway campus.

The proposed Center for Workforce Development in Tourism and Commerce would include an amateur athletic center with a swimming arena and tennis complex, a small conference center, parking garage, a hotel, a restaurant and an institute building that would house the fields of culinary arts, hotel management and information technology under one roof.

The businesses will be open to the public, and could give an economic boost to the Drew Park area, said Bob Chunn, president of the Dale Mabry campus.

In August, the college will start searching for a developer, Chunn said.

The project is in the initial stages, so if a developer proposes changes or a variation in the concept, the college will consider the idea, providing it ties to its educational mission.

Chunn anticipates the project being completed within three years, with private developers building it on land leased from the college.

The school has proposed three properties: one with 7 1/2 acres, another with 30 acres and the third with 26 acres, Chunn said.

The goal is to create businesses that will work with students and faculty in a specific field.

For instance, students from the college's nursing or health sciences programs could volunteer as interns at a sports complex rehabilitation center.

Since 1999, HCC has considered several development options on the Dale Mabry campus.

The college planned a swimming arena where state, regional and national meets could be held, but dropped it so as not to compete with plans for another complex that was part of Tampa's bid for the 2012 Olympics. After Tampa was eliminated as an Olympic site, HCC considered other options, but plans were put on hold after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks.

Through the years, Drew Park has developed as an eclectic neighborhood of small manufacturing businesses, auto repair shops, single-family homes, lingerie shops and adult businesses.

The area first served as a municipal airport and, during World War II, became Drew Army Airfield.

Now it might be in the embryo stages of a rebirth.

Recently, the Tampa city council designated it a community redevelopment area, which allows the city to set aside some of the property tax money raised in the neighborhood to improve such things as sidewalks, drainage, roads and lighting.

The interest in Drew Park isn't surprising to people who know the area.

It's located in a central part of the city, next to Tampa International Airport, West Shore Business District, Raymond James Stadium and Legends Field. It is near the interstate and downtown, making it an ideal location for businesses.

Mark Huey, the city's economic development administrator, said the area around the West Shore Business District is booming, and Drew Park is starting to see some of that growth because of its vacant land and location.

Huey acknowledged Drew Park has issues to address - flooding, poor roads and adult businesses - but the area can be improved, he said.

``This is a natural progression,'' Huey said. ``You could anticipate this because of the tremendous success and growth in West Shore.''

Tampa developer Keystone Ventures LLC has made a separate proposal to develop a project at Dale Mabry Highway and Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. Boulevard. The proposed $240 million Tampa Sports Centre is similar to the HCC concept, with a sports and rehabilitation center, conference center, hotel, restaurant, retail center and condominium units.

Both sides said they have had discussions and are going forward with their plans.

Keystone Ventures partner Elizabeth Barry said the parties plan to coordinate the projects to avoid overlap and to make both successful.

``We don't intend to compete,'' Barry said. ``We hope to work together.''

Joyce Harthousen, president of the Drew Park Alliance, a community group trying to change the area, hopes that if HCC's plan goes forward it will spur interest, recognition and investment in the area.

Drew Park can become a destination, making people aware of its needs and forcing the stakeholders to take care of what is there, she said.

``They are really fabulous, generous plans for Drew Park,'' Harthousen said. ``HCC is an anchor [for Drew Park]. They are a stabilizing factor.''

I heard something about this a while back at school (I go to HCC Dale Mabry for my construction associate's degree), but had utterly no clue "what" was going on...I just was hoping that they were finally adding a parking garage, and maybe a building for classrooms. This sounds much, much better.

Just noticed that Grand Central removed their penthouse and largest two bedroom units and broke them up into smaller floorplans. They also added 3 new 1 bedroom plans?

Does anyone know why this happened? It seems very odd, especially since they just had their grand opening last weekend and their already changing plans... Maybe this indicates that Channelside is now drawing a lower price point than earlier thought???

Anyways, the new plans seem to add extra functionality, which is something I thought had been missing from their floorplans (they felt more like an apartment than an upscale condo).


My guess would be a higher dollars per square foot profitability (or equal) coupled with thier belief that they could sell these smaller, cheaper units more quickly, and get on with locking in sales and construction contracts, before prices flux much more. I think it's pretty clear by the hard sell, that alot of folks are eager to get these buildings in the ground on all sides. The developer wants to build before their profits get eaten away by higher interest on the construction loans, the GC and subs want to get going before their material costs go up, and the buyers want to finance the mortgage before rates go up, plus they naturally want to move in.

It's no secret that the penthouse units have been moving more slowly, as that's basically all that's left for several projects. So in a way, yeah, a lower price point is proving more salable...


I very much want to know what's going on with the 4 other major projects DT. The Pinnacle, the Ashley/Whiting condo, the Four Seasons and the Lindell towers. Are these in presales yet or what?

Pinnacle is in registration mode - or was back in early June.

Whiting/Ashley just got approval for variances, so I doubt they are quite there yet - I think they said toni Everett would be the agent - so you can ask them.

no idea on Four Seasons.

I don't think Lindell has even gotten his plans worked out yet.

As for the Pinnacle, my feeling is they are probably doing quite well. I won't explain why and I have no proof, but there are things that lead me to think that.

As for the Emabssy Suites, no one seems to know exactly what is going on.

I have no clue either. The 717 manager told me that they weren't taking new monthlies, and I honestly do't know if they are or not. I've only been down there once in three weeks, as the schedule is dead this time of year, and I've been working elsewhere.




btw, if anyone ever wants a choice rooftop view from one of the midrises out on Rocky Point, just give me a PM. I can set that up no problem at all during any weekend day. Perferably on Saturday, before 2pm. (of course, you'll have to put up with me in a lame security gaurd uniform, but oh well. lol)

Can anyone tell me how to upload pics onto this forum. (I'm new and have never posted on forums before.)

http://skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=59844


Welcome! Just check the above link out...

Ok, so I was around Channelside this morning and decided to drop by the sales centers to see what was up. Most of the people were kind of stereotypical real estate sales people, which tunrs me off, but they gave up some info, so:

Towers at Channelside - COMPLETELY RESERVED. Yes, all units. They will take deposits ina month or so and contractsin October. They anticipate January 2005 groundbreaking for both towers at once. That will be nice.

The Place - teh least helpful of the bunch. They have a nice big model though. Anyway, they have a board on the wall that tells you which units are taken. So far 37 are gone. Idon't remember how many they are offereing but I would guess 120 or so, so they have a ways to go.

Grand Central - 70% reserved. Contracts in Oct, as well. IF they have a decent cotnract rate, they should start around Jan or Feb 2005 as well.

One thing I will note - paying 250,000 for a 4th floor 1200 sq ft palce may be fine for some, but seems a bit overpriced - not the bottom line but the value for your money. More power to them if they can separate people from their cash.

Smiley:

Which place was quoting $250k for 1200 sq/ft? Seems like a relative bargain compared to what I've been hearing and seeing what people have been paying.

I had a similar experience when I first walked into The Place. They said I had to be on a special list and "invited" to come in for an appointment. Seems they are not taking walk-ins yet (until everyone on their priority list is contacted). One of the salespeople though was nice enough though to give me a sales package.

I just hope they can get these projects under construction so people can get a better idea for when to lock in mortgage rates. The latest estimates show that 30year fixed rates will be right around 7.6% next fall and 8% by mid/late 2006. I personally think appreciation rates will have to be affected by the rise of mortgage rates as the amount people can afford will decrease unless incomes rise as well...

You know, I don't remember, but it was on like the 3d floor w/o a balcony so it was probably Grand Central.

The Place was by far the rudest sales shop. They wanted all this info and wanted an appointment, but I jsut wandered around. Of course, they have sold 37 of something like 200+ units, so maybe they should mellow a bit.

I was also amused by the seeming obsession with lawn mowers and how you would not need one. Numerous sales people poited out that lawn mowing takes soooo much time. What a hassle. Somone even pulled out a picture of a guy mowing a lawn to emphasize the point. Of course, they don't point out that manitenance fees eat up anythin you might save by paying some guy to mow your lawn, but that's what sales pitches are all about.

In any event, I see Grand Central and the Towers moving pretty fast. The Place, while seeming to be a nice project htat will block the water views (and light) of the Victory Lofts people in the smaller building who face East (good planning Vicotry Lofts), is going to drag, methinks.

Isn't DT Channelside also basically sold out? From what I recall, they basically filled their entire list without ever even having to actively market the property.

And if these projects in Cahennelside are already booked up this much, then there should be a nice pop when the two 50+ story condos u in the core start presales soon.

As far as I know, DT Channelside hasn't even started sales. I think you mean Towers of (at, whatever) Channelside - that is all reserved.

My boyfriend and I wanted to buy a flat in Grand Central. What a bunch of bloodsuckers. $280K for a 1.5br/1ba that is barely 1200sq ft. With a view of what you say? Those ugly industrial rusted warehouses across the channel and the crosstown xpressway. They say you are paying "for the lifestyle". Yes sure they are going to have a Publix as an anchor and lord knows how many times I have wanted to have a grocery store two feet away. And a concierge is nice too. But the Channelside market is too hot right now and these people can ask for anything they want and will probably get it. I love Tampa and can't wait to move back but for $280K I could but something in a highrise in South Beach or DT Miami.
Sorry had to vent. :blahblah:

My boyfriend and I wanted to buy a flat in Grand Central. What a bunch of bloodsuckers. $280K for a 1.5br/1ba that is barely 1200sq ft. With a view of what you say? Those ugly industrial rusted warehouses across the channel and the crosstown xpressway. They say you are paying "for the lifestyle". Yes sure they are going to have a Publix as an anchor and lord knows how many times I have wanted to have a grocery store two feet away. And a concierge is nice too. But the Channelside market is too hot right now and these people can ask for anything they want and will probably get it. I love Tampa and can't wait to move back but for $280K I could but something in a highrise in South Beach or DT Miami.
Sorry had to vent. :blahblah:

Are they really going to have a Publix? Does anyone know if that is a definite? That would be great for Ybor and Channelside. The only thing I wonder is that I thought that Seaport Center development just north of Grand Central was going to have a grocery store too.

I think two grocery stores that close together would be a disaster, at least with timing and all... (Although I'd love to see another Publix or similar in Channelside...)

tampabound - where are you all coming to Tampa from? Welcome!

Last I had heard, there was a Publix planned for the Grand Central development. But then I read about Seaport Center and read there is a Kash & Karry planned there. I'm not sure if both will be built, or if one of the developments will look for something else needed...like more restaurants, a dry cleaner, maybe a cool urban gym, and some funky nightclubs and lounges.

As far as I know, DT Channelside hasn't even started sales. I think you mean Towers of (at, whatever) Channelside - that is all reserved.


No, DT Channelside, the one by Byrd Corp. I thought that was in the papers like 6-10 weeks ago, about how they had gotten all kinds of presales even without active marketing? I don't know. I get all of these confused sometimes.

Yep, I confused them... Shit...


I just stopped by "The Towers of Channelside" reservation office, which has been open since yesterday, and they have reserved every unit , except three. They have not advertised, or even listed on the MLS. They sold the units from people calling the developer ahead of time and friends of people involved.

Now, if I read this right, this project will now be 12 stories - since the 11th floor penthouses will be 2 stories. Sucks to be in Grand Central with an East facing apartment. . .

Channel District: Channel District preps for new project
The $34-million Ventana, a high-end residential and retail development, is expected to be completed in 2006.
By STEFANIE GREEN
Published July 16, 2004

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Just when it seems like every corner in the Channel District has been earmarked for redevelopment, another residential and retail project has been announced for Channelside Drive and Kennedy Boulevard.

Plans for Ventana call for two, 11-story buildings with a total of 84 units. Stores and a parking garage will take up the first two stories, and more than 60 percent of the exterior will be glass. Hence, the name Ventana, which means window in Spanish.

"The site has been in my family for more than 40 years," said Bill Ware, who is developing the project. "I bought it from my grandfather back in 1997, and the Channel District since then has gone through an evolution. I wanted to take part in it."

Construction on the $34-million project is scheduled to begin in January or February and will last about 15 months, Ware said. The two towers will have a connecting terrace with a pool and spa, clubhouse, sauna and fitness center.

"All the action will happen there," he said.

The City Council approved the site and design earlier this year, he said.

Hardin Construction was selected as the general contractor. The company has been involved in several local projects, from the Tampa Waterside Marriott to Centro Ybor to One Bayshore going up on Platt Street.

Ventana units will range from 1,500 square feet to more than 2,600. Each will have a 140-square-foot balcony and a terrace, Ware said. Condominium units will have 10-foot ceilings, and the 11th-floor penthouses will have two levels.

"I don't think anyone else in the Channel District has that," Ware said.

Prices will start in the mid $200,000s, Ware said. The Ventana sales center is scheduled to open in September at the Shoppes at Channelside.

For information, go to www.ventanatampa.com or call 813-272-2222.
http://www.sptimes.com/2004/07/16/Citytimes/Channel_District__Cha.shtml

Thier prices don't sound too atrocious, but I wish all of these were about 20% cheaper. They should sell just fine, being that they are almost right in between Ybor, the DT core and the main Channelside attractions.

Plus, there's alot of retail going in next door at Grand Central.


BTW, the prospect of having 6-8 cranes or more on DT's southern skyline is exciting! Cranes are the coolest. ;)

I don't know if anyone caught this but I'll post it anyway......
Article comes from Real Estate Tampa Tribune 5/30/04

http://img3.exs.cx/img3/3948/Pinnacle1.jpg
http://img3.exs.cx/img3/1599/Pinnacle2.jpg

Thanx Jasonhouse for the info on image posting

Excellent. Now I know two things I did not know before - they are up to 40 stories each - nice.

They are basically across the street from teh forum and one block from Channelside and the Towers thereof. While I don't really care at all about the observation tower, if these go up with teh Towers and DT channelside goes up, there is going to be quite a little cluster there.

BY the way, building one is about 70-80% reserved at the ole Pinnacle. By next May, downtown is going to be a really interesting place, I think.

I went to see the Place yesterday and it is very nice, but their prices are a bit higher than everyone else's. They quoted me $299,900 for a 1 bedroom with a den, and that is pretty tough to stomach at this time. Especially since it is just over 1100 sq. ft. They have a beautiful model though.

Grnad Central seems like it should be legit, and I spoke with the developer and he is a straight up, very likeable guy.

Yep, that rendering is 40 stories, alright. I like the look a lot more, too. Not nearly as boxy. Ok, let's wager what will go on the block between the Towers and the Pinnacle. Who goes first?

By the way, that project is actually really large - not in height, though that seems good enough - but in coverage and what is in it. I can't beleive tht would get built in Tampa (If only they would replace the needle with more condos or offices) but maybe it will. Having observed this stuff in Tampa for so long, I am having trouble wrapping my mind around the possibilities here - and the probabilities here. You younger guys have no idea. . .

I desperately hope that they either scrap the tower, or jack it up to 800-900ft. I see absolutely NO POINT in erecting a tower that is so short, that it already projected to be tightly hemmed in by other towers. At this short hieght, exactly what in the hell views will they be selling 20 years from now, when even taller structures finally start going up in Tampa, some of them possibly being very close by? 10 years ago when they first proposed this, the hieght wasn't too bad, but now that reality is what it is, I don't think the tower is very salable. IMO, it simply won't be much of a landmark long before its mortgage has been paid off.



Ok, let's wager what will go on the block between the Towers and the Pinnacle. Who goes first?

I think that parcel will either become an urban park, or will get a hotel and a condo tower built on it, with the building closer to Channelside being 14-20 stories, and the one closer to the tower being 35-50 stories.


I can't reiterate enough just how asinine it is to build the obs deck at the advertised hieght.

I was just thinking about Grand Central and why so many people I talk to think its so much of a better value... The #1 thing I hear from friends and coworkers (and people I know who have a reservation there) is that Ohh.. Ahhh... those Viking appliances make it worth it.

My logic is a bit different. The 20k worth of Viking included with every kitchen will be maybe worth $5k to a resale buyer when you resell the condo. So, in theory, your taking $15k of your money and throwing it down the drain. (Unless your like a chef, or just happen to not care). If you take away the appliances, is Grand Central really worth anymore than Victory Lofts, Ventana, or The Place? Maybe its just a great marketing idea that will sell the place out with the Viking appliances...

I was just at Grand Central again today and they're quoting $290's for a 1200 sq. ft 1 bedroom with small den (no balcony). At those prices, I'd choose The Place (although I'd definitley want to check Ventana out more). Don't get me wrong, Grand Central will certainly be a nice place with lots of amenities and I'm sure good construction quality (except those cabinets), but I'm just perplexed by the wide range of reactions between different Channelside developements. (Although I do respect everyone's opinions, and hell, mine have definitely been proven to not be right all the time)

I have to agree that it was nice to personally meet with the developers. They seemed extremely knowledgable and on top of things. Plus, I believe even though they are experienced, they have such a great personal stake in the project that they will both make sure the project meets its customers expectations that they are setting.

I'm glad to see competition now in Channelside. With all these projects coming online, I'm sure the market will help set what prices/features people are willing to pay for (unless they have a heavy investor rate).

Using an eyecatching, memorable feature to sell your units is nothing new. I know of a subdivision out off of Lutz-Lake Fern Rd, which wooed buyers out there with fancy doors and manufactured stone on the front facades. Now, these houses were not that great IMO, but they were fetching well upwards of $300k, basically because of the eyecandy. (They also built a tower feature at the front entrance, instead of typical boring retention wall and lit sign). Astute use of materials, can result in markedly higher sales prices, and higher demand for your product as well.

Good point. One of my old high-school friend's parents bought one of thouse. Montreaux, right? I think being so close and sharing the entrance to Stillwater (million dollar plus homes) helped alot too.

Yes, that's the one. Using the intense landscaping for sound abatement was another stroke of genius IMO, as it is inherently more attractive that a wall, though it won't work any better, and didn't cost much more. All it really does is jack up the homeowner's fee of the folks living there.

I have a friend/former nieghbor who bought in there, and I was like "oh man!". I don't think that highly of the place, as the construction quality is as sketchy as anywhere else, and the houses are on postage stamp lots. I just don't see the point of having the work of keeping up a yard, if you're not actually going to have a yard. Once he put a pool and modestly sized patio in, his backyard is GONE. He swears that he's going to get a better property appreciation out there, and I just laughed when he said that.

They must have really jacked the prices up at Grand Central.
They were way lower than The Place when I went. That is why I thought the Grand Central was a much better buy. The Place wanted $560K for a 1798 sq/ft place and Grand Central wanted $580K for a 1900+ sq/ft place.

Something quite amazing that I read today...

The Tampa MSA created just over 17,000 new jobs in June. Now granted, about 40% of these are seasonal service jobs, but that number just blew me away. The Metro is expected to be one of the national leaders again this year, and is projected to create between 37,000-42,000 new jobs, and add about 45,000-55,000 new residents. The area was again in the Top 10 nationally last year for most number of multi-family housing starts, and these numbers are in absolutes.

Looks like the Lindell property on harbour island is going live now. Their website for priority registrations is http://www.plazaharbourisland.com/

From what I've heard, one bedrooms are going to start at $300k and condos will go up into the millions. Phase I is a 17 story tower with completion expected in 2006.

http://www.patrinely.com/selow.jpg

Guess they're changing things a bit. Initially, all three towers were reported to be 20 stories. Maybe they will realize that a "tabletop" assemblage of towers doesn't make for the best views? Erecting towers of like 17, 25 and 32 stories would be a much better solution IMO.



BTW, I actually hope that the towers are a leafy green/seafoam green when built, as that is one of the few "tropical" colors still missing from Tampa's skyline.

BRobinson, do you have your origional scans for that article?

dont know if this has been mentioned, but how tall in feet are the pinnacle towers gonna be (not the needle thing, which i agree should be taller)

I've heard numbers ranging from 430ft to 464ft.

They were originally said to be 430, but if they are 40 stories instead of 37, who knows?

As for the Harbous Island job, where did you get taht picture and an it be blown up a bit

Mapping Out A Plan
By DAVE SIMANOFF dsimanoff@tampatrib.com
Published: Jul 18, 2004




TAMPA - Tony Suarez's heart tells him to build four handsome storage buildings on his 2-acre property in Drew Park.
His wallet has other plans: Do nothing with the land, and lease it out as an overnight parking lot for rock haulers and other industrial trucks.

Suarez knows the investment in new buildings would be an important step toward improving Drew Park, an often overlooked neighborhood in the center of Tampa that's better known for industrial companies, automotive repair shops, lingerie modeling shops and other adult businesses.

But the semiretired businessman also knows that leasing out the property for truck parking is an easy proposition, and one that would entail no upfront investment and few headaches from city planners and building officials. He also knows it's a business plan that's paying off quite handsomely for some of his neighbors.

Right now, it looks like the economic factors outweigh the emotional ones for Suarez. He said that more than $30,000 in government impact fees, in addition to other upfront costs, just don't make sense to him.

``When I put all this together, if it doesn't work out, that's it,'' he said. ``I have no intention of wasting my time and my money.''

Many developers are trying to figure out what to do in Drew Park.

Last month, Tampa-based Keystone Ventures LLC announced its plans for a $240 million sports-themed office, hotel and entertainment complex at Dale Mabry Highway and Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. Boulevard in Drew Park.

Other major Drew Park landowners, Hillsborough Community College and Tampa International Airport, have plans that might bring new life and jobs to the area. Small investors such as Suarez are looking at what's right - and what's profitable - for the area.

Drew Park, sandwiched between Tampa International Airport and Dale Mabry Highway near Raymond James Stadium and Al Lopez Park, has come to the attention of developers and city officials after decades of neglect, but potential investors such as Suarez say obstacles such as impact fees could deter growth.

However, there's little doubt that the stars are starting to align.

The city recently named Drew Park a community redevelopment area, a designation that channels taxes raised in the neighborhood into local improvements. Business owners and residents have formed an association, the Drew Park Alliance, to identify problems and plan solutions.

One of Drew Park's biggest landlords, the HCC campus on Dale Mabry Highway, has started talking about adding facilities to its property. The ideas include an athletic center with an indoor swimming arena and tennis facilities, a small conference center, a parking garage, a hotel, a restaurant and new academic facilities.

The school will begin seeking proposals from developers next month. There's no word on when it will select a development plan or begin construction.

``There are some very ambitious things we're talking about,'' said John Huerta, the school's executive director for marketing and public relations.

HCC's primary goal is to bring in facilities that are aligned with educational programs: for example, a hotel that's tied to the school's hospitality management program. The school's goal isn't to spur development in Drew Park - but, Huerta said, it's great if the campus additions improve the area.

``We want to be good neighbors, and we want to be a part of the development plan,'' he said. ``We would be a cornerstone, and a solid cornerstone, [for Drew Park], but we are going to make sure our educational mission goes first.''


A Sporting Chance

Plans for the proposed 1.2 million-square-foot Tampa Sports Centre include sports medicine clinics, professional office space, broadcast facilities, a hotel, convention facilities, condominiums and a retail center. The development group says it's talking to investors and tenants but hasn't announced any deals. It said it wants to begin construction next year and open the complex in 2007.

Elizabeth Barry, one of Keystone Ventures' three partners, said her company's goal is to create a facility that will give Tampa a national reputation for athletics and sports medicine - and that will spur investment and jobs in the Drew Park area.

``This is not just about putting up sticks and bricks,'' she said. ``Making a difference, I think, is more important than any other aspect of this project.''

Despite all the activity proposed for Drew Park, potential investors still see plenty of drawbacks: a gritty image, frequent flooding from an outdated stormwater drainage system, and small parcel sizes that make it difficult to assemble property for development.

And, of course, there's the issue of impact fees. Suarez, the semiretired businessman trying to figure out what to do with his property, said the high cost of impact fees, permit fees and other regulatory hurdles cut into the feasibility of his plan to build four 5,000-square-foot warehouses at 4815 N. Clark Ave.

Suarez bought the land, slightly less than 2 acres, for $75,000 in 1977. He ran his company, 3-T's Towing Service, from the property until May, when he sold the assets in anticipation of retirement and began looking at other ways to make money.

Suarez estimates the upfront costs would come to at least $55,000, including impact fees, if he opts for construction. The four warehouses with attractive facades will cost about $800,000, he said.

``I want to make this area look a little nicer,'' he said.

The alternative - leasing the property out as a parking lot - costs him nothing upfront and could bring in about $1,700 a month.

``I don't want to do that, but if the city continues without giving me a break, how are they helping the Drew Park area?'' he said.

Mary Alvarez, the city councilwoman who represents Drew Park, said city officials are looking at the possibility of waiving impact fees for projects like Suarez's.

``I think there's a really big chance of doing something about it,'' although nothing has been decided, she said.

If waiving impact fees brings investment into Drew Park, which in turn expands the city's tax base, then it's worth considering, she said.

``I would definitely lean toward it,'' she said.

Another major Drew Park landowner has long-term plans that could bring more employers. Tampa International Airport began buying land between West Shore Boulevard and Hesperides Street in 1993. Today, it owns 171 of the 205 acres it had targeted.

The Hillsborough County Aviation Authority, which runs the airport, is buying each piece of land individually as the owners decide to sell, instead of using the legal authority called eminent domain to condemn and buy others' properties.

The airport's eventual plan is to move all of its cargo operations, which sit north of the landside terminal, to the Drew Park property, making room for a second landside terminal.

``That's way off in the future,'' said Chris Hardman, manager of properties and contracts administration for the aviation authority. ``But when that project does come to fruition, we'll have to relocate our common cargo complex.''


`Part Of The Experience'

Alvarez said the potential for Drew Park outweighs the obstacles facing developers. She also said the community redevelopment area designation should prove to investors that the city is serious about encouraging development.

``I would like [developers] to know that Drew Park is actually coming alive and that the people that live there are very, very interested in making a comeback and being part of the city, which they haven't in a very long time,'' she said. ``Come and look and see there's plenty of opportunity to buy land and build and be part of the experience.''

Vince Pardo, manager of the Ybor City Development Corp., called the community redevelopment area designation ``a very important green light'' for developers. Pardo, a city employee, is heading up the community redevelopment area effort in Drew Park in addition to his duties in Ybor City.

Drew Park once was a social and business hub. The area roared to life during World War II alongside Drew Army Airfield, which would later become Tampa International Airport. Temporary homes and offices were built during the war, and more than 25,000 residents called Drew Park home.

Today, Drew Park boasts just 2,100 residents, according to a city report issued in May. Nearly 70 percent of the buildings are in disrepair, classified by the city as deteriorated or dilapidated.

Alvarez said redevelopment could take hold very quickly in Drew Park and that the area might look very different in five years.

``Word's getting out that something is happening in that area,'' she said.


Reporter Dave Simanoff can be reached at (813) 259-7762
http://www.tampatrib.com/MGBZ1XDCSWD.html

I read 464ft somewhere, but I can't recall where for the life of me. I do alot of surfing around the net at work now, but I don't always post at work.

No.... I don't have any other scans of that article, but I still have the article. (and the scanner)

JASonhouse, tehre are some renderings and shots in teh Trib about Drew park. I'll see if I can get them scanned and off to you.

Duh! I saw that last night online before I went to bed! :nuts:


That project looks like it has 2 13-15 story towers, which ain't half bad.


It begs the question though, where will these guys succeed that Tampa Bay One is failing?

Tampa Bay One is too much office space, very little condo and a bit hotel. As I understand this idea, it will have more hotel.training, rehab stuff and less straight office space. In the market these days, office space kills.

TB1 also has significant retail.

Perhaps they will wise up, and reshape their project to include only one office tower (northern one), and do the southern tower as a condo or apartment tower just as big as the hotel/condo building?



BTW, have you seen this thread comparing Tampa and Memphis??? It's kinda funny, though I'm having fun posting away about postive things about Tampa for a change. :)

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=118653

BRobinson, do you have your origional scans for that article?
Here is a larger re-scanned pic of the pinnacle project
http://img15.exs.cx/img15/1042/pinnacle3.jpg

Sweet! That's exactly what I was looking for.

:eek2:

Hello All,
I have a couple questions regarding loan rates: What is the rate on a 10 million dollar loan? Also, is there a significant difference b/w rates for construction loans vs. permananent loans? Finally, do these rates vary much from region to region - specifically TPA vs. SRQ?
Thanks in advance for any insight!

(Just want to add a quick edit and apologize for having posted in this particular forum. I see it's for tracking specific developments in the area - not general development questions.)

That new Pinnacle project in DT Tampa is awesome! :eek2:

Here's a scan that Smiley took of that Drew Park proposal for the "sports mecca" type place on the northwest corner of MLK and Dale Mabry.

It's quite a dense development, and about as tall as I expected.


http://www.skyscrapercity.com/photopost/data/500/8Drew_park_proposal.jpg

Did anyone see the article in the tribune on Sunday about the proposed riverwalk extending from the cochanhotchee (i gave it my best try) park behind the forum all the way up to tampa heights? i think it was on the commentary section.

Just my two cents on the idea: even though it would be great, I just don't see a riverwalk as an important piece of building a liveable and vibrant downtown. Sure it's nice, but will that bring more people to visit downtown? Just from experience, having visited Fort Lauderdale's riverwalk, it does not seem like that is a magic element that brings droves of people to an area. I say build it...just don't expect it to be very popular unless there are shops and restaurants and mixed used residential along it.

A riverwalk will help to tie DT to the waterfront, in a way that it doesn't do now. Along with the riverwalk, several small parks will be carved out of the existing grid, which will allow for access to the riverwalk, as well as a place for workers, residents and vistors to lounge around.

Having public spaces like this are important to developers, who can use them as a marketing tool. And of course it is a nice quality of living asset for folks who come into DT... Key to the plan IMO, is finding a way to effectively tie the riverwalk to both Bayshore Blvd, and the University of Tampa. I personally think that a sculptural pedestrian bridge going from Curtis Hixon Park to UT is a no-brainer at this point.

Allow me to comment - the sidewalks across Kennedy Bridge are actually wide enough to make crossign there possible and reasonable, the key elemnt. However, down on Brorein and Platt they are not. They are quite unpleasant. I believe that is where they should spend the money on the pedestrian bridge- especially since that is the conenction to Bayshore and all the residential stuff that will go in there soon enough. Want to get those people downtown and the Whiting& Ashley people to Publix.

Hey, we should do a Tampa Bay forum meet. I hear about all these people getting together around other cities and have heard some talk of doing one here. What do you all think? How do you set something like that up? :cheers:

I think both need improvement Smiley. You're definitely right about Brorien and the Platt st bridges. I walk those frequently to Publix from work, and they both SUCK. Sadly, a key parcel for tying Bayshore to DT is for sale, and it appears that the city won't be the buyer. (parcel is behind the TCC garage on the river, and sits directly between the Platt and Brorien bridges)

I think that a ped bridge or vastly improved ped crossing at or near the Cass St bridge would be great for the UT folks, as well as the Tampa Prep kids and so on. Also, I personally think that redevelopment is going to start popping up west of UT, so in reality, I would like to see a pedestrian "spur" somehow weave its way over into that neighborhood south of Cass, but north of Kennedy. Be it a linear park, or just a wide, landscaped sidewalk following an existing street. I think it is crucial going forward that the DT core be connected with the Westbank area as best we can afford to do. If that means rebuilding existing bridges, or adding new bridges, I'm fine with it either way.

Hey, we should do a Tampa Bay forum meet. I hear about all these people getting together around other cities and have heard some talk of doing one here. What do you all think? How do you set something like that up? :cheers:


A mod makes a sticky thread, and folks decide what to do.

I was thinking that the springtime would be a perfect time to do this, as we will actually have some construction projects to go check out and drool over. Plus, at the rate we're going, there will be at least 5-7 more projects to discuss and debate the merits of. :)

The best we could do now is harass the sales offices and go fawn over One Bayshore, check out the the Bellamy on our way to St Pete, where we could stare at the Parkshore hit the 3rd floor. ;)

I don't think Cass is the way to go, yet. I think Kennedy - and revitalizingthe land near the river and kennedy - which is a great place for residential infill - and down by Platt. I find it hard to belevie that anyone will build on the lot just north of Platt - that is a very small lot - can't do much with the setbacks and what have you, even if it is on the water - in any event, that should be a park. They shoulod use those waterfront city lots as part of the riverwalk giving acess to the rest of downtwon and drawing people with nice little parks. Of course, this being Tampa, they won't.

The other issue with bridges is that they either have to be very high or be a draw brdige, so the fewer you build - using the present drawbridges instead, the better. The Kennedy bridge should do just fine - if there were a riverwalk that nicely conencted to it, it would work. Cass can come later - put the plan in and a TIFF and see if anyone bites.

Hopefully, they can find the loot and political determination to rebuild or heavily renovate the Cass and Platt St bridges, before the costs and demands of traffic flow become overwhelming. Stylishly rebuilt/renovated bridges would serve the same purpose well.


And I still think that a bridge connecting Davis Islands to Harbour island, along with a road widening, is seriously needed for DT access, looking further down the road. A 4 lane, 30mph avenue like I depicted before would do wonders for the rushes through southern DT, without doing much of anything to the traffic and residential flavor of Davis Islands. The northern end of the island is hectic and quite urban IMO anyways.

Need some help over on this Tampa vs. Charlotte forum. Some dude is throwing out stats that are totally wrong.

what is SoHo?

^South Howard Avenue.

IF I may, SoHo is a stupid marketing ploy thought up by people who moved here and desparately wanted to sound sophisticated. That road has been there for almost 100 years, 9/10 or so of which it was Howard or South Howard. There never was a thing called SoHo, except in London and NYC. There should not be one in tampa. Think of a better name- a Tampa name.

On the other hand Hyde Park was called Hyde Park when they built it, so it is acceptabel to still use it.

Think of a better name- a Tampa name.


I agree. The New York name lifting is totally out of control in Tampa. Soho, West Village, and now a proposed East Village (of the Arts). It all goes back to how Tampa lacks character. I hope they name the arts village something else. I propose a name: the cigar district.

^Tampa has the character. But for some strange reason, many feel its better copy famous neighborhood names, from larger cities.

I agree, Tampa has a lot of character, but this is an epidemic everywhere. It's the same thing in Miami and most of Florida. Not just with districts but with subdivision names too.
I can't stand it, but I don't think there's much we can do to stop it.

This is driven by transplants who actually want to replicate something and the locals who buy into it and have no shame. Everytime I hear one of these things from now on, I will complain to the govt. The internet is good for that, and in some of my little complaining letters, I have noticed some on the city council moving a bit my way - whether that had anything to do with me or not, I don't know

Bayway Lofts was to be St. Petersburg's tallest building at 42 stories. But concerns mean it will shrink to 29 stories

By SHARON L. BOND, Times Staff Writer
Published July 22, 2004

ST. PETERSBURG - Bayway Lofts, which would have been the tallest building in downtown St. Petersburg if built as planned, has shrunk.

Redrawn plans filed with the city this week call for this newest project by developer Grady Pridgen to be 371 feet high instead of a record 510. It would rise 29 stories instead of 42.

Pridgen redesigned it after the initial height drew protests.

A rooftop restaurant remains, and the project would have more condominiums: 350 units instead of 277. Prices would be $200,000 to $500,000, a range that is lower than many of the luxury condominium towers built in the downtown in the past five years. Sizes are not set yet but probably would range from 1,200 to 2,400 square feet.

"We think there is a great demand for residential housing in downtown," Pridgen said Wednesday.

The price tag has changed. Instead of a $50-million project, Bayway Lofts will now cost $100-million even though it would be shorter.

"Construction costs have skyrocketed in the last 18 months because of the scarcity of steel and concrete," Pridgen said.

The site is the same: a little more than an acre that makes up four lots on Third Avenue N and two lots on Second Street, within sight of BayWalk, the multimillion-dollar entertainment complex.

Pridgen filed initial plans for Bayway Lofts a little more than a year ago. But St. Petersburg officials rejected them because of the size and height of the project.

Pridgen said he hopes to start construction on the new design in about a year.

Pridgen has announced projects totaling more than half a billion dollars in the Tampa Bay area in recent years, and Bayway Lofts is among the most visible. At 510 feet, Bayway Lofts would have been 124 feet higher than the city's tallest building, the Bank of America tower. At its new height, 371 feet, it still would be one of downtown's tallest buildings.

Neighbors complained about the height in initial plans, saying the building would cast a shadow over their smaller homes.

Martha Haile lives in the Huntington Townhomes, which are three stories high and behind the Bayway site. She said last year she did not want to look out her window at a garage. On Wednesday, she said she needed to know more about the revised plans before commenting.

The revision calls for 353 parking spaces in the first six stories of the tower.

City Council member Virginia Littrell said 29 stories is better than 42. "I know the staff had real heartburn about 42 stories," Littrell said.

The Bayway Lofts site is sort of a dividing line between the Old Northeast neighborhood and downtown, Littrell said.

"It would have to have pedestrian amenities on the first floor. It shouldn't block off people from moving around that area," she said.

Pridgen said the stores planned for the first floor would attract pedestrians.

Pridgen's name is attached to numerous projects in the Tampa Bay area, most of them in Pinellas County. The majority of them are still in the planning or permitting stages.

Well this is supposed to be the crane cam from One Bayshore, though I haven't seen anything yet - did they take the crane down? Anyway, I'll put it here so you can try it and see if ti works.

http://simscrane.com/frame_webcam.asp

They probably didn't take the crane down yet. Way too much of the exterior and tippy top to work on yet, by the lloks of things.


BTW, Lakelander, shoulda put that article in St Pete's list. They're separate now. :)

^yeah, I noticed right after I had posted the article, this morning.

I found this the other day, thought some of you might find it interesting.

--> click here (http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:-bwCjzy0X6MJ:www.tampachamber.com/downloads/assessment-report.doc+commuting+demographics+manatee+county&hl=en)

Oh, and can anyone tell me what intersection Tampa Bay 1 is at? Is on Dale Mabry?

Dale Mabry to the west, Cypress to the south, I-275 to the north. They own the land all the way over to Himes, but not all of it will be developed at first.

Dale Mabry to the west, Cypress to the south, I-275 to the north. They own the land all the way over to Himes, but not all of it will be developed at first.

Oh, okay. That's a great piece of property. If this doesn't get built, I hope something tall and at least a little aesthetically pleasing gets built.

Maybe they could build another Wal-Mart on it, like how they ruined another great piece of property just north of I-275, with a Wal-Mart and a Best Buy. That little development was among the more useless developments I've seen occur in Tampa.

Of course, the complete rim job the county has now gotten from Capital One is right up there too. A few million in development incentives, and they ship the fucking jobs to India. I see absolutely no reason why the state and county shouldn't get every red cent of that money reimbursed. ($3.8mil+ road improvements)

Anybody remember the old "Tampasphere" proposal for Dale Mabry ? That thing hung around longer than HRT.

Anybody remember the old "Tampasphere" proposal for Dale Mabry ? That thing hung around longer than HRT.

No, I don't remember this proposal. Enlighten me. :)

As I recall - and I can barely recall - it was a huge, mixed-use project featuring a spherical structure that might have included exhibition space. Maybe Smiley remembers.

any idea, why this thing wasn't built downtown?
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http://media.tbo.com/photos/trib/2004/jul/0722amp2.jpg


TAMPA - The $23 million Ford Amphitheatre, which presents its inaugural concert tonight, is all about an outdoor sound.
That's what bothers the neighbors.

For 37 years, Janice Davis has lived on Wallis Place, her house within earshot of the Florida State Fairgrounds and the area's latest concert venue. Many of the amphitheater's coming acts - such as Sting and Kiss - are expected to draw 20,000 people.

``We already get noise from the fairgrounds, and now we have the amphitheater,'' Davis said. ``I should be able to live in my house without the noise. But now it's after the fact, because it's already built.''

Amphitheater officials say they had no intention of building an ear-sore and designed the venue to limit noise off its 17-acre site. Sound-savvy features include a 40-foot earthen berm to absorb sound, and a stage and speakers facing Interstate 4. The building also is tucked on the northeast quarter of the fairgrounds, bordering the freeway.


First Big Test

But neighbors southwest of the fairgrounds say they can hear music from weekend outdoor bands at the Hard Rock Cafe on the opposite side of the interstate.

``It doesn't matter how far away the amphitheater is because sound travels,'' Davis said. ``My house is like an open shot to the fairgrounds.''

The first big test is tonight, when Christian singer Michael W. Smith hits the stage at 7:30. The Cure performs Sunday; a concert Tuesday features Chicago and Earth, Wind & Fire; and the Dave Matthews Band plays Thursday.

Wall-of-sound groups down the road include Rush, Boston and Black Sabbath. All bands bring their own speaker systems, augmented by eight fixed speakers on the outer edge of the amphitheater canopy.

Officials at Ruth Eckerd Hall in Clearwater and the Tampa Bay Performing Arts Center say that the amphitheater schedule doesn't conflict or detract from their seasons and that the entertainment dollar is strong enough to support another venue.

However, some future amphitheater acts could just as easily play the St. Pete Times Forum, said Holly Brown, a spokeswoman for the Forum.

``There are shows that could go either way,'' she said. ``Anytime a new venue opens in a market, there's concern about discretionary income and what the market will support. So there's a little concern.''

Billie Morales would rather see rock bands play the forum than her back yard: Her Downing Circle home sits about a hundred feet from the south property line of the fairgrounds.

``The thing is so huge, and I know we're going to hear concerts,'' Morales said. ``We're afraid we will hear the bass because that's what goes through every room in the house.''


Careful Planning

Amphitheater planners say careful thought went into sound projection and reflection. The lack of reflective surfaces means sound travels beyond the fixed seats. But they say the massive sloped berm, made of 350,000 cubic yards of soil, absorbs that sound as well as traffic noise from the north.

``Sound waves not only are absorbed by the berm, but the 10,000 people sitting on it,'' said John M. Ahrens, architectural manager. ``The majority of the sound will never leave the property.''

Containing that sound to the site was important because the project's success hinges on its acceptance by the community, said Ed Morrell, the amphitheater's executive director.

``We spent a great deal of time researching this issue, and this determined the position of the stage, where it faces, the way the berm is sloped, and the slope of the house,'' Morrell said. ``Everything we did says we will fall well within Hillsborough County ordinances.''

A key to staying within acceptable noise levels is how much noise already exists at the site, he said: ``Our research shows that by the time sound leaves us, it won't be much higher than the ambient noise from the highway.''

Each day, more than 80,000 vehicles pass the fairgrounds along I-4, and traffic noise background levels average 60 decibels, the Hillsborough County Environmental Protection Commission said. Any source of noise in or near a residential area must comply with a limit of 55 decibels between 10 p.m. and 7 a.m.

Amphitheater officials provided the commission a detailed list of plans and modeling to show how the venue would comply with noise regulations, said Sterling Woodard, assistant director of the commission's air management division.

``We reviewed their models and compared them to our calculations,'' he said, ``and we had no objections.''


Other Measures

If noise becomes a problem, Clear Channel Entertainment, which owns the amphitheater, could be forced to build more berms or add sound-absorbing walls. That noise would have to be louder than the neighboring freeway traffic.

``The background levels of the interstate are above 60 decibels anyway,'' Woodard said. ``So as long as the projected impact of sound isn't above that, it isn't a problem.''

If some neighbors to the fairgrounds worry about the possible sound level, one resident has concerns about the traffic. Richard Dakin lives near Orient Road, which intersects a back entrance to the amphitheater. Although U.S. 301 is the main entrance, officials say some traffic will flow through the Orient entrance.

``There's going to be gridlock for families trying to get home at night,'' Dakin said.

Yea, the land was cheap and regulations few. It is a collosal screwup on the part of various governmental agencies. Here's something else:

Neighborhood report
Channel District: Legal battle sparks over valuable real estate
Owners of the property, in the Channel District, want to sell it to developer's and say a former tenant's claim to bid is false.
By DAVID KARP, Times Staff Writer
Published July 23, 2004

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


For decades, no one wanted the land.

The owners bought it cheap - and left it vacant. Next door was an old flour plant that coughed and wheezed.

But now that the land is valuable because it's near the St. Pete Times Forum and Channelside, everyone wants it.

Two groups are fighting over it in court.

Last week, the president of the former Rain Lounge on Nebraska Avenue filed a lawsuit in Hillsborough Circuit Court claiming she had the right to buy the approximately 12 acres in the Channel District.

Developers led by Frank DeBose have signed a $3-million contract for the property and also have sued the Rain Lounge over the issue.

Whoever wins the right to buy the land will get prime real estate.

DeBose plans to build an entertainment complex on the site with condos, a hotel, stores, restaurants and a 624-foot "space needle." He says he's secured a construction loan to finance the $350-million project.

He's been eyeing the land since 1995, long before Channelside and condo developers came to town. Back then, buying land near Channelside Drive, Nebraska Avenue and the ConAgra mill behind Newk's Cafe seemed absurd.

On June 16, DeBose signed a contract with the Genaro Taormina Irrevocable Trust to buy the property. The family trust would sell it to Pinnacle Place Partners, who include DeBose and developer Kenneth Morin, for $1.5-million in cash at closing and a $1.5-million note, according to a copy of the sales agreement filed in court.

A week later, Ramsey sent the family trust a letter, saying she had the right to buy the land at the same price.

Ramsey was president of Rain Lounge, a nightclub that hosted the Playboy.com party during Super Bowl XXXV.

Rain leased property from the Genaro Taormina Irrevocable Trust. Its lease agreement, signed in 2000, gave the club the right of first refusal to buy several lots should the trust ever sell.

Those lots are in the middle of DeBose's plans. Without the lots, his project won't work as planned.

Ramsey's attorney, Sonia Lawson, said Ramsey properly exercised her right to buy the land and should get it. Ramsey sent the trust a $10,000 cashier's check and put $5,000 in escrow as a deposit, records show.

Members of the trust say Ramsey lost her right to buy the land when the Rain Lounge closed. Another group bought out Ramsey earlier this year and opened a full liquor gentlemen's club called the Karma Lounge.

Last week, Ramsey's attorney asked the City Council to delay approvals for the development. DeBose wanted the city to close roads to allow him to develop his project.

"This petition is premature," Ramsey's lawyer told the council. "They don't own the land, yet they are seeking to shut down streets."

The council didn't agree, and approved the closings as long as the development proceeds as planned.

"There is no issue of ownership," attorney Carlos Pazos, a member of the trust, told the council.

Eddie Diaz, a representative of the trust, said Ramsey is using the court system to slow down the development - and force money out of the trust.

"They saw the gold at the end," Diaz said. "It's pure extortion."

No hearing dates have been set on the lawsuits.

- David Karp can be reached at 226-3376 or karp@sptimes.com
http://www.sptimes.com/2004/07/23/Citytimes/Channel_District__Leg.shtml

Ecellent - save the tree and build taller right on Kennedy. What will they think of next?

Downtown: New dorm designed around old oak tree
The University of Tampa will build a 10-story building, instead of seven, eliminating the need to destroy the tree.
By GRACE AGOSTIN
Published July 23, 2004

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Call it a lesson in compromise and preservation.

Developers and city officials have agreed on a plan to build a University of Tampa residence hall along Kennedy Boulevard without destroying a large oak tree on the site.

To make room for the building, the 179-bed dorm will be 10 stories tall. The original design had seven.

"I'm happy to say we came up with a plan that would save the tree," environmental lawyer Andrea Zelman told the City Council on July 15. "The language on the site plan ensures the arborist will be involved during the construction."

The preservation plan for the oak includes surrounding the tree with a 6-foot chain link fence to protect the tree during construction, installing an irrigation hose in the tree canopy, and trimming dead or damaged branches. To leave room between the tree and the building, trimmers will prune once a year.

Council members, who a month ago warned developers not to jeopardize the 100-year-old tree, approved the plan unanimously.

"The benefit of that grand tree will be a real gift to the community and the students," Linda Saul-Sena said.

Floyd Nelson opposed the project because it would destroy the Whitledge Inn on the site. He and his wife have been living at the hotel for three years.

"What I don't understand is what happens to the people that live there?" Nelson said. "There are going to be more homeless people to deal with. I've got legitimate concerns."

Council member John Dingfelder suggested the city's housing staff work with Nelson and the dozen or so residents staying at the hotel to set up living arrangements before construction begins. The university is expected to begin demolition by the end of this month. "I know they're going to move on this pretty fast," Dingfelder said. "We don't want people on the street."

Zelman added that the building was in such poor condition that it would be too expensive to renovate. The inn has 27 rooms upstairs and 14 downstairs, the lower level of which is unoccupied. There are five toilets for guests and three showers.

- Grace Agostin can be reached at 226-3434 or gagostin@sptimes.com
http://www.sptimes.com/2004/07/23/Citytimes/Downtown__New_dorm_de.shtml

I just post this because it was Jan Platt, our exteemed commissioner who, when they wanted to name a park after Joe Chillura, whom she hates, commented that they should not name govt buildings after people still alive or serving - well, what say you now Jan?

News to shout about

What's Brewing

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SUSAN THURSTON
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E-mail:
Click here
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By SUSAN THURSTON, City Times Editor
Published July 23, 2004

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It's a rainy, Tuesday afternoon at the Jan Platt Regional Library. A mother reads to her toddler on the floor by a bean bag chair, a young student searches the computer catalog for books on his summer reading list, and a man in a tie talks business on his cell phone.

Coffee simmers at the Bookends Cafe, and customers crowd the checkout line.

"The selection of computer books is great," said Amelia Stender, 42, after borrowing a book about Photoshop.

About 3.5-million people a year head to the 22 libraries in the Tampa-Hillsborough County Public Library System. Another 2.9-million access info online. Need a book? Librarians will look as far as Okeechobee County to get it and deliver it to your neighborhood branch lickety-split.

THAT FOCUS on customer service helped the county earn special mention in the Library Journal's 2004 "Library of the Year" award announced this month. About three dozen libraries nationwide competed for the award. Two got special mention; San Jose won top prize.

"It's a very big deal," said a proud Joe Stines, Hillsborough's longtime director of libraries. Every blue card user should cheer - softly if you're in a library.

Stines says the first-time honor proves the county's methods are working. Tracking trends, people's interests and technology translated to increased circulation and attendance. They've expanded CD and DVD collections and the number of books in foreign languages and genealogy. And thanks to the Internet, customers need less nonfiction stuff.

Children's books remain the most popular. Activities for kids range from story time to puppet shows to online homework help.

NO SURPRISE, the libraries in the burbs have the highest checkout numbers. Brandon Regional comes in first, followed by Jimmie B. Keel in Carrollwood. Downtown's John F. Germany, the mother library, logs the fourth most; Jan Platt on Manhattan Avenue is fifth.

Stines credits county and state officials with setting high library standards. Florida's libraries are a shelf above many around the country, largely because so many people are moving to the state. Retirees and young families like libraries.

Tampa's first library - a famous Carnegie one - opened in 1917 on Seventh Avenue and Franklin Street and served as the city's main branch for half a century.

By the 1960s, the area had outgrown the library and launched plans for a new one. The current downtown library on Ashley Drive opened in 1968 as what officials called a "Taj Mahal built to last forever." The addition came in 1976, and the library was named after John Germany, a former judge and civic leader, in 1999.

Over the years, the county has replaced the carpeting, removed asbestos and fireproofed rooms but never completed a major facelift. To the average user, it certainly needs it. Air pollution has stained the stone and concrete exterior, age has withered the landscaping, and the elevators routinely conk out.

With a little polish, Stines is confident it will shine again. "It has an ageless look."

The county has hired architects to find out if the library can expand upward or outward. Depending on results, due this fall, the county will try to find money for the work.

In the meantime, the county is surveying library users on ways to improve services at John Germany. So far, more than 125 people have filled out the online survey at www.thpl.org Today is the final day.

Changes to the library come at a crucial time. It is a key element of the cultural arts district and eventually will cater to people poised to live downtown.

Hopefully, the improvements will make the library a more inviting and enjoyable place to go. Maybe, they'll boost the county to "Library of the Year."

THE LAST DROP: Pane Rustica is up and running in the old Giancola's market spot on MacDill Avenue. Finally, an end to the dreaded lack of parking and seating. Bring on the focaccia.

- Susan Thurston can be reached at 226-3394 or thurston@sptimes.com

[Last modified July 22, 2004, 10:53:46]
http://www.sptimes.com/2004/07/23/Citytimes/News_to_shout_about.shtml

More on the dorm - yea, they should help these people find a place to live. . .

Way Cleared For University Residence Hall
By SEAN LENGELL slengell@tampatrib.com
Published: Jul 22, 2004




TAMPA - The University of Tampa is poised to stretch its shadow beyond its traditional campus confines with a new 10-story residence hall on the south side of Kennedy Boulevard.
A building boom has engulfed the small downtown campus in recent years, including several dormitories, a new student center and business building. With the university's explosive enrollment figures showing no signs of slowing, UT officials say another student dormitory is needed.

The residence hall will be built at 404 W. Kennedy Blvd., across Kennedy from Plant Hall, the university's minaret- topped signature building. A two-story apartment building will be razed to make room for the almost 200 students.

``Our growth is really limited by the number of beds we have, not by the the size of our classrooms or the number of professors,'' university spokesman Grant Donaldson said.

The Tampa City Council gave initial approval for the plan last week. A second and final vote is scheduled for July 29.

The structure will be the university's first privately developed residence hall. The developer, 404 West Kennedy LLC, intends to lease the building to the university on a long- term basis. The hall won't have on-site parking.

The building initially featured seven floors and included the removal of a grand oak tree. Council members balked at the idea of cutting down the tree at a June meeting and asked the developer to redesign the building.

Council member Linda Saul-Sena praised the developer and architect, Eric Kreher, for redesigning the building to save the tree.

``I'm just so impressed with your second attempt at designing this property,'' she said. ``I think it will be a real gift for the community, the street and the university.''

Not everyone was pleased with council's decision. Floyd Nelson, who pays $140 a week to rent an apartment at the building slated for demolition to make room for the dorm, said he can't find decent housing at a comparable price. He worries that he and his wife could become homeless.

Nelson said he is unemployed because of physical problems. His wife works as a bagger at a nearby supermarket.

``I don't know if my wife can stay employed if we don't have a physical address,'' he said. ``Times are tough right now.''

Nelson, who said about 10 to 12 people live in the building, said he isn't against the expansion. But he wishes the university or developer would help residents find alternative housing.


Reporter Sean Lengell can be reached at (813) 259-7145.
http://www.tampatrib.com/News/MGB7HEQ0ZWD.html

A new rendering of the Ventana from today's Tampa Trib, courtesy of Smiley and his scanner.

I tried to touch up the photo some...Newspaper scans are the worst.

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/photopost/data/500/8DT_Tampa_Ventana_render1.jpg

And that's great that the university is expanding its residence halls, but I would think that instead of building the 4-5th dorm hall now, that they would have wised up and built only two bigger dorms, thus leaving the other land for future use.

If there is one thing that I have definitely noticed about the Tampa development scene, it is that nobody looks very far down the road. And for a university to be rather shortsighted in a steadily growing and now urbanizing city just seems downright silly. It seems that the only real choice the school will soon have for expansion would be a new campus elsewhere, or to buy land across N Boulvard, or south of Kennedy for some serious green.

Just noticed that The Place at Channelside website is now fully-featured. They show all of their floorplans and info on the project. They've also got pictures of their model, which I still think is totally cool... www.theplacecondos.com (http://www.theplacecondos.com)

I read that this weekend is their grand opening from their last weekend ad. It will be interesting to see their sales stats next week after their big push.

On a side note, I've heard from a respectable source that Towers at Channelside may have made the same mistake as Meridian about premature pricing. I've heard that their costs have come in substantially higher than originally budgeted (for reservation purposes). Anyone know anything about this? I haven't seen their reservation agreement, but I wonder if they put the same escalation type clause in their agreements like Grand Central did... Of course though I'm sure they have a right to terminate just like nearly every other reservation agreement out their.

I have no idea about the Towers at Channelside thing, though it sounds entirely reasonable. In fact, it's expected, unfortunately.

A small tidbit!!
Redner's building(the one behind Club XS) has been torn down over the last few days. I have No idea what he plans on putting there.

Well, if you look at the Place website, it would appear that none of the units is sold - as far as I can figure - though when I was at the sales center they had 37 "sold" - which I assume means reserved. No idea what goes on there.

As for the Towers, I am not too worried, given all the reservations. Unless prices jump more than 20-25% I think they won't have too much trouble, unless interest rates skyrocket too - which, while I think they might go up a bit - I doubt. In fact, oddly, as the prime rate creeps up, it gets harder to sell houses, making the interest rates stay about the same for ap eriod as demand for the moeny is lower. The whole money thing is quite complex, but it is there. I expect to see themm go. You might want to worry a bit about other projects though.

There was a crane put together, today, at the hotel site across from the convention center!!

WOHOO!!!!

Yay!!!

That is odd. They haven't even done any work on the foundation, why would they need a crane. mind you, I hope they are starting, but I am not sure it isn't for something else - though I have no idea what. Need to check it out.

Was it a little, protable crane (on a truck) or a real fixed crane? I can see them bringing in a truck crane to help drive pilings. Let us hope.

Test piles, sounds very logical. The site does need a little clearing though, which should take all of about 4 hours, if that.

I think the westin hotel is supposed to start going vertical in late september/october

does anyone know the details on this? height/floors...
also, club xs is probably going under also...from what i read in the news a few weeks back. they want to make it into artist studios.

20 stories, though the rendering had 22. Not sure on the height and I might not post it even if I knew so that Skyscrapers.com would not get it then tell us it is copyrighted information.

Sorry, I was out of town when you posted the note on Tampa Sphere - funny I was talking about that with a friend of mine a couple of weeks ago.

TampaSphere was proposed by Al Austin (of Austin Center in Westshore fame) back in the early 1980s. It involved 4 towers (15-20, can't exactly remember) connected by a mall-like structure (all offices) and a hotel (which was to be sort of where Tia's is on that lot). It was to be where the Walmart and Bestbuy at Dale Mabry and 275 are. The sphere was in the mall part, I think (it's been a long time since I looked at that). The real estate crash killed it and Walmart snapped up the lot. I bet if I went and dug through all the crap I have saved over time, I could find the rendering for it.

You don't have to go thru mountians of loose papers, but thanks for the info. Too bad it wasn't built, because the Wal-Mart and Best Buy right next to the interstate almost kills the sense of urbanity in Tampa.

By the way, did anyone go to the Cure show on Monday? I really wanted to go as the Cure are one of my favorite bands by far, but unfortunately I was short the fifty dollars to get in plus none of my friends were too enthusiastic about going with me. :(

http://media.tbo.com/photos/trib/2004/jul/0728grg2.jpg
162 Acres On Bayfront Has Builders Salivating
By DAVE SIMANOFF dsimanoff@tampatrib.com
Published: Jul 29, 2004




TAMPA - The owners of a large south Tampa apartment complex are hanging out the ``For Sale'' sign, delighting developers but raising the prospect of up to 2,500 more homes in an area where residents are already concerned with traffic and utilities.
The investment trust that owns Georgetown Apartments, the aging complex on 162 acres of waterfront property along West Shore Boulevard, said Wednesday that it has hired a real estate broker to sell the land.

Real estate experts say the property should attract dozens of developers looking to replace the apartment complex with luxury condominiums, town houses and single-family homes. Brokers predict the property will fetch more than $50 million, considering the high demand for housing in south Tampa and the scarcity of land there.

``Every developer I know would want to buy something like that,'' said Don Lombardi, vice president of commercial real estate services giant CB Richard Ellis. ``Whether they can afford something like that is another thing.''

John Gerlach, the broker hired by the Tampa investment trust Friday to sell the property, said he's seeing a frenzy of interest from developers.

``Every time I hang up the phone, I have more people calling that want to meet or talk about the property,'' said Gerlach, a vice president for Colliers Arnold, the Tampa- based commercial real estate services firm.

The complex sits on 56 acres of the property, and 50 more acres are vacant and can be developed. Much of the remaining land is submerged and can't be used.

The apartment buildings were built, one at a time, during the 1960s and 1970s, with a few buildings added in the early 1980s. The complex has about 570 units.

Tenants and leasing agents haven't been informed that the property, including the apartment complex, is up for sale. The new owner will decide whether to keep the apartment buildings or replace them, Gerlach said.

From the air, the site looks like a stubby peninsula jutting into Old Tampa Bay. At the westernmost boundary, a strip of white sandy beach hugs the land along the bay. A small lagoon lies on the western side, and canals on the northern edge provide access to the bay.

Gerlach said the owners don't have an asking price in mind. The site is zoned for about 2,500 housing units, but a developer can opt to build fewer homes than allowed.

``There's nothing to compare this property to,'' he said. ``It's better to have the market determine what that value is.''

Lombardi, the CB Richard Ellis broker, predicts the eventual sales price will fall between $50 million and $60 million.

Bruce Erhardt, a senior director at Cushman & Wakefield, another commercial real estate services firm, said the price will be dictated by the number of single-family houses, condominium units and town houses the new owner wants to build.

``It's going to be a big number,'' he said.


Neighboring Concerns

The area around West Shore and Gandy boulevards should see a flurry of development in coming years. Grady Pridgen, a St. Petersburg-based developer, purchased the Imperial Yacht Basin on Gandy for $25 million in May; he plans to convert the site into a high- end residential development with as many as 500 homes.

WCI Communities Inc., based in Bonita Springs, bought the 68-acre former Westinghouse Electric Corp. property on West Shore south of Gandy in April for $13.1 million. The company will build two condominium towers, plus single-family homes and town houses, for a total of 494 homes.

Residents in surrounding neighborhoods have long been concerned about the issues that come with development: traffic, stormwater drainage, water pressure, evacuation routes.

Just last week, residents south of Gandy Boulevard spoke out against the Imperial Yacht Basin project during a city council meeting. In addition, residents opposed the WCI project because of concerns about the overstressed infrastructure.

West Shore Boulevard's ability to handle traffic remains a strong concern for residents. The two-lane road is being widened to three lanes south of Gandy, but there are no plans to expand the road north of Gandy.

Ellen Nimon, president of the board of directors at a nearby mobile home park, Regency Cove, said she wasn't shocked to hear that Georgetown Apartments is up for sale.

``We've heard they've been sold, and we've heard they haven't, maybe three or four times'' over the years, she said. ``We don't get excited about that.''

Regency Cove, on the north side of Gandy Boulevard, has 700 residents and age restrictions. No one has inquired recently about buying the mobile home park, Nimon said.

``We have had in the past people come to us or call us or send us letters asking us if we're interested in selling, but Regency Cove is not for sale,'' she said.


The Red-Hot Housing Market

Demand for housing in south Tampa is so strong that nearly all new homes are bought before they are completed, said Tony Polito, the local director for housing research firm Metrostudy.

``Clearly there is a need for continued housing development,'' he said. There are 32 developments proposed or under construction in south Tampa, he said.

The demand for new housing isn't limited to south Tampa. Polito said that if all construction on new homes stopped today, it would take just 8 1/2 months to sell out the existing inventory of new homes in Hillsborough County, compared with 18 to 24 months in many other major markets.

Because land for new construction is scarce in south Tampa, most new developments are town house projects with 4 to 20 units, Polito said.

As for Georgetown Apartments: ``We haven't seen an infill tract of that size in a long time,'' he said.


Reporters Michael H. Samuels and Josh Poltilove contributed to this report. Reporter Dave Simanoff can be reached at (813) 259-7762.

http://www.tampatrib.com/News/MGBH1GSA8XD.html

Downtown Embassy Suites going up
Aja Whitaker

Tampa's newest downtown hotel project will take its first step Monday toward becoming a reality.

The 20-story, 360-suite Embassy Suites Hotel Tampa at the Convention Center will break ground with plans to open mid-2006. It is scheduled to be completed in time to accommodate the lucrative Shrine of North America annual convention, which generates an estimated 31,000 hotel room nights.

The Embassy project is touted as an important factor in luring convention business to Tampa. The downtown area has not seen a major addition to its hotel inventory since the 2000 opening of the 27-floor, $105-million Marriott Waterside Hotel and Marina.

In recent years, the Tampa Convention Center has struggled with the distance of available rooms and often has to shuttle convention attendees to hotels in the West Shore business district.

Convention center leaders have said the 717-room Marriott will remain its headquarters hotel. However, one of the most talked about Embassy features is a planned covered bridge that would directly connect the hotel to the convention center registration area.

WPM Construction LLC serves as the developer for the project, which will be located at 513 S. Florida Ave. and feature 11,000 square feet of meeting space.

There currently are two Embassy Suites in Tampa, one in the West Shore area and another near Busch Gardens. The Embassy Suites Hotels brand is a part of Hilton Hotels Corp.

I wonder what this thing will look like. Hopefully something ultra-modern, but I can't be too hopeful.

Does anyone else think that the Marriott is butt ugly?

Where did you get this - URL's please. One cannot make an archive without URLs.

I see they worked out the problem of crossing the streetcar lines with the skybridge. that's fine - hopefully it just won't be a tube, but will have some decent elements to it.

Ah, here it is

http://tampabay.bizjournals.com/tampabay/stories/2004/07/26/daily43.html

Agent Orange, there is a rendering of the Embassy Suites featured at the front end of this thread. It is more of that Med Revival crap, and it isn't even very good execution IMO.

Also, I stand by my long held assertion that the city should have dumped the marriott developer when they cheaped out and shrunk the hotel to only 717 rooms. No way should it have been less than 900, and it really should have been about 1200 IMO. And in fact, if it was me, I would have built the hotel where the Embassy Suite is going, with it spanning over the South Regional garage, with much more meeting space. That would have saved the waterfront for either a municapal use, or a nice big mixed-use project, that would actually utilize the waterfront. The Marriott guests generally ignore the channel, so why did we have to sacrifice our waterfront property, just to have it walled off?

Its great to see that the Embassy Suites hotel is finally breaking ground. It will be nice to see another crane in downtown. BTW, did anyone ever find out what's going on with the demolished warehouse site across street, directly east of Club XS?