Do you think L.A. is a "World Class City"

[Money Man]

I was looking through "City Discussions" on SSP, and this person said that L.A. isn't considered to be a "World Class City"? Do you think he is correct. This is his post which is featured on SSP.
Pricemazda: "Im sorry to all those Los Angelinos out there or LA sympathisers but outside of America LA isn't really considered a 'world city'."

[benji45]

I think so lol I love LA Im deffinetly moving there someday somehow and yah i can see it being a wolrd class city... explaint o me what a world class city is agian?

[Imperfect Ending]

I don't think so.. its big... but not really a "world class city"

[benji45]

Yah maybe but hten what is a world class city if LA isnt I mean ppl come from all around the world too see movie stars, go to Hollywood, see the hollywood sign, go on tours of Beverly Hills, go to Disneyland and Universal Studios, see where all the magic of the movies happens. I think its a world class city. Deffinetly.

[Dao]

I don't think so.. its big... but not really a "world class city"
I don't only think so....I am sure it is!
Do you guys ignore that New York, Los Angeles & Chicago are the premier world calss american cities!!
Unless you don't know whay world class means, so if you don't know you should try to learn what it is befote you give an erroneous opinion.............amen

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[benji45]

Well I thought it was a world class city by far

[benji45]

"Im sorry to all those Los Angelinos out there or LA sympathisers but outside of America LA isn't really considered a 'world city'."

Hey, Im outside of america and i still think its a world class city, all my friends do too and i bet ppl over in Europe and mExico and Asia do as well. But what do i know right im just a canadian .

[Dao]

"Im sorry to all those Los Angelinos out there or LA sympathisers but outside of America LA isn't really considered a 'world city'."

Hey, Im outside of america and i still think its a world class city, all my friends do too and i bet ppl over in Europe and mExico and Asia do as well. But what do i know right im just a canadian .

Don't be sorry
wether those people think LA is or is not a world class city makes no difference, people who really know how the world is interconnected know that it is, so it doesn't matter what the regular Joe thinks.

[benji45]

Haha Good.

[_tictac_]

Think? I know that for a fact man!
It has everything you'll ever want in life and that's what I identify as a world class city ;)

[entropy]

Some people have very strict standards for "world class" whereas others have very lenient standards. Those with the strict standards consider only cities with the prominence of New York, London, Tokyo, and Paris to be "world class", and L.A. may not fit in that category, and pricemazda may be one of them. But for most people at least. L.A. is certainly amongst the world giants - if they believe 2 or more cities in North America qualify to be "world class" that is.

[_tictac_]

Those with the strict standards consider only cities with the prominence of New York, London, Tokyo, and Paris to be "world class", and L.A. may not fit in that category, and pricemazda may be one of them.

What prominence are we talking about here? I've been to all with the exception of Tokyo and lemme tell ya, they're not all that compared to Los Angeles. Some of them (NYC/Tokyo) may have the skyline but generally people tend to get too excited bout that alone.

LA is certainly a world class city ;)

[crunch]

No.

[IntrepidMan]

Um, Los Angeles is a world-class city, and it's on the same level as New York, London, Paris, Tokyo, etc. I find it hard to believe people are even debating this.

Just look at an atlas and you'll see L.A. in the same large bold-faced type as all the other world cities. It's as simple as that.

[Cauo]

Um, Los Angeles is a world-class city, and it's on the same level as New York, London, Paris, Tokyo, etc. I find it hard to believe people are even debating this.

Just look at an atlas and you'll see L.A. in the same large bold-faced type as all the other world cities. It's as simple as that.

i think also LA is a world class city , because of its touristic effect , its population , its emense area and its capital factor for the pacific rim ... you know ;) its world class sure

[Imperfect Ending]

I don't only think so....I am sure it is!
Do you guys ignore that New York, Los Angeles & Chicago are the premier world calss american cities!!
Unless you don't know whay world class means, so if you don't know you should try to learn what it is befote you give an erroneous opinion.............amen

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Money Man is asking what I thought and that is what I think...........heil Satan

[IntrepidMan]

I don't mean to be rude, and everyone is free to think as he wishes, but the fact is L.A. is a world city. We can debate all you want whether San Francisco, for example, is a world city (I think it is), but with Los Angeles there's no debate. It's a world city and that's a fact.

You can think L.A.'s not a world city. You can think 2+2=5 for all I care. But you'd be wrong.

[Imperfect Ending]

You're contradicting yourself

[Jasonhouse]

The size of the port, the entertainment industry and sheer population dictate that LA is a "world class" city, whether folks like it or not.

What is it that LA does not have that it somehow needs to be considered better?

[IntrepidMan]

You're contradicting yourself

How so?

[_tictac_]

The size of the port, the entertainment industry and sheer population dictate that LA is a "world class" city, whether folks like it or not.

What is it that LA does not have that it somehow needs to be considered better?

Lets not forget about dining, fashion and music!
Most of the people just close their eyes without even realizing that when it comes to that, Los Angeles is indeed very unique in many ways too.
Saying that LA can't be considered a 'world class city' is absurd and pathetic, it's as simple as that ;)

[DuskTrooper]

Its not a world class city. So there.

[Jasonhouse]

Without any attempt whatsoever to quantify why, you're wrong. So there. :)

[detroitboy04]

Yes, it is!!

[Dampyre]

Um, Los Angeles is a world-class city, and it's on the same level as New York, London, Paris, Tokyo, etc. I find it hard to believe people are even debating this.

Just look at an atlas and you'll see L.A. in the same large bold-faced type as all the other world cities. It's as simple as that.

LA is definately world class but not on the same level as New York, London, Tokyo or Paris. Those cities have immense power and importance that not even LA can match.

[IntrepidMan]

It depends on who you ask. If you ask a banker to name the most important city in the world, he or she would probably say London or New York. If you ask a fashion designer, he'd say Paris. If you ask a movie director, he might say Los Angele

Yes, maybe LA isn't on the same level as NYC or Tokyo or London. We can argue forever on the specific ranking of each world city, because as far as I know there is no list somewhere that specifically says Paris is more important than LA, or London is more important than Tokyo. Can't we just say they're all world cities?

My point is this: Los Angeles is a world city, and there's no denying it. Maybe it's not the top, or the top three, or whatever. But it's there.

[Jules]

I'd say LA is as much world class as New York, if not more.

[Dubai_Boy]

Paris is a world class city and LA is by far not a world class city


it is a world class movie city :)

[_tictac_]

Paris is a world class city and LA is by far not a world class city


it is a world class movie city :)

I've been to Paris atleast 15 times now and I am yet to discover why it's SUCH A GREAT PLACE compared to any other city...
Sure, it has great architecture but that doesn't quite do it for me, besides, the inner city of Paris is quite disappointing...however, the suburbs are truly fascinating and romantic.

[BaghdaddyByTheBay]

Hi....new to the forum but thought I would post my thoughts. Concerning LA's world status, having lived here for the past year and a half,yes I think its a world city in that it is a strong economic power and a significant destination for business and travel. I think it's in a league with the other cities mentioned.

But as far as it being a cosmopolitan city, a place that feels like a big city, like New York (which I lived previously) London, Paris (both which I have visited) or even San Francisco (where I am from), I am affraid it is not on par in that area. But thats just my take on it from living here.

[Money Man]

Welcome, It's great that you joined Skyscraper City. Welcome again, and have fun while you are here. :)

[samsonyuen]

Los Angeles is such a world-class city that it doesn't matter if any thinks it is or not (hear that Atlanta/Charlotte?)

[Jasonhouse]

I'm still waiting for folks who think it isn't world class to explain why in a qualitative manner.

[lokinyc]

I personally don't like LA but you can't deny it's world class. You might be able to argue it doesn't have a world class skyline or a world class subway system. There's some incredible architecture, shopping, beaches, and few cities on the planet spread their cultural and economic wings so far.

[texasboy]

I'd say LA is as much world class as New York, if not more.

oh puhlease!

[Jasonhouse]

Explain why, instead of trolling please.

[Eerik]

LA is just a big sprawling suburb. You can't compare LA with New York, Toronto, Chicago, London or Paris.

Even Moscow is more of a city than LA. (Sorry LA)

[Dao]

LA is just a big sprawling suburb. You can't compare LA with New York, Toronto, Chicago, London or Paris.

Even Moscow is more of a city than LA. (Sorry LA)

I don't think (LA) will be in anyway sorry due to your words
your opinion can only be important to yourself..................... sorry :)

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[Jasonhouse]

hey, at least he tried to explain.

Perhaps what he's really driving at is the automotive dependency, and sheer land area utterly transformed from its natural state, into an urban jungle?

[texasboy]

I like L.A., but it seems like the suburbs of Los Angeles are more interesting than the inner city. I think it is a world class city, but it cannot compare to NYC, Paris, London, or Tokyo.

[ChrisLA]

So I guess, Westwood, Larchmount Village, West LA, the Fairfax District, Brentwood, Pacific Palasades, Downtown LA, Fashion District, all its culutural activities (Music Center, Hollywood Bowl, Greek Theater, Sunset Strip, La Brea Avenue (art galleries) numerous museums, etc), aren't in the city. I could go on, but these are some of the more popular areas. All of this is within the city of LA, not the suburbs.

[texasboy]

So I guess, Westwood, Larchmount Village, West LA, the Fairfax District, Brentwood, Pacific Palasades, Downtown LA, Fashion District, all its culutural activities (Music Center, Hollywood Bowl, Greek Theater, Sunset Strip, La Brea Avenue (art galleries) numerous museums, etc), aren't in the city. I could go on, but these are some of the more popular areas. All of this is within the city of LA, not the suburbs.

how about venice beach, universal studios, six flags, disneyland, rodeo drive, hollywood and highland, hollywood walk of fame, santa monica boardwalk, santa barbara, and there is a lot more in the suburbs. all of these places do not have a l.a. address. i think hollywood is not really inside the city of l.a, eventhough it is close.. Downtown is really known for the staples center and walt disney concert hall, and that is about it. The only reason i would think people would be in the l.a. city limits is if they are on melrose, sunset, and maybe to catch a game at the staples center or maybe go to the beverly center.

[ChrisLA]

how about venice beach, universal studios, six flags, disneyland, rodeo drive, hollywood and highland, santa monica boardwalk, santa barbara, and there is a lot more in the suburbs. i think hollywood is not really inside the city of l.a. Downtown is really known for the staples center and walt disney concert hall, and that is about it. The only reason i would think people would be in the l.a. city limits is if they are on melrose, sunset, and maybe to catch a game at the staples center or maybe go to the beverly center.

Actually Venice Beach, and Hollywood Highland are part of the city of LA. Even Universal Studios is acutally a small piece of land unincorporated private land, but everything around it is the city. Santa Barbara is 100 miles away and isn't part of the LA metro in no way shape or forum. Oh and the Getty Museum is also in the city, and so is the very long commerical/shopping corridor of Ventura Blvd. :)

ps: Oh I forgot there is museum row on Wilshire Blvd, and LACMA along with the La Brea Tar Pits.

[texasboy]

Actually Venice Beach, and Hollywood Highland are part of the city of LA. Even Universal Studios is acutally a small piece of land unincorporated private land, but everything around it is the city. Santa Barbara is 100 miles away and isn't part of the LA metro in no way shape or forum. Oh and the Getty Museum is also in the city, and so is the very long commerical/shopping corridor of Ventura Blvd. :)

ps: Oh I forgot there is museum row on Wilshire Blvd, and LACMA along with the La Brea Tar Pits.

now don't get me wrong. i like l.a., but do you think people actually go to los angeles for the museums. and you are right abut santa barbara.

[ChrisLA]

You got to be kidding, yes people come into LA for the cultural activities. Do you think these things are in the suburbs. I have lived in the city of LA, and I've also lived in the suburbs. I'm not a person who hangs out in clubs anymore, but surburban folks come to LA for its nightlife as well. The museums have many special events that draws people from other cities outside the metro. One example is when VanGoh exhibit was at LACMA. People come in droves to The Getty thats why reservation are suggested, MOCA in downtown LA recently presented Andy Wahol, and just last week there was a special exibit (Body Worlds) at California Science Center, the West Coast's largest hands-on science center. It will be in town until the end of the year, and I planned to go and see it. I don't live in the city, but in Long Beach. See below:

This is regarding the exhbit, you have no choice but the visit the city, if won't be in any suburb.

July 2, 2004 - January 23, 2005
10 a.m. - 9 p.m. daily (last admission 8 p.m.)

BODY WORLDS is unlike any exhibition that has ever come before. It explores bodily performance at a depth never before possible on such a comprehensive scale. Thanks to the breakthrough process of plastination, more than 200 real human specimens are displayed to reveal an extraordinary new look inside the human body.

More than 15 million people have viewed BODY WORLDS throughout Europe and Asia, making it the most successful touring exhibition ever. Now the exhibit arrives in the Americas, beginning with its only West Coast stop, at the California Science Center. The inner world of the human body awaits. Don’t get left out.


There is more that you have to come into LA for, see below of just a few of many museums

Here are some that are in downtown LA, no other community have this

The Museum of Contemporary Art (MOCA)
The Geffen Contemporary Museum of Art
Japanese-American National Museum
The Latino Museum of History, Art and Culture
The Museum of Neon Art
Museum of Chinese American History in Los Angeles

Exposition Park
Natural History Museum of Los Angeles County
California Science Center and IMAX Theatre
California African-American Museum
Rose Garden
Aerospace Hall

[The Urban Politician]

This is the most idiotic spread I have ever seen.

You guys need to stop bickering :bash: and just drink some booze :booze:

Seriously, I've been to LA and it's simply awesome. Who cares if it's somebody's definition of world class or not

[benji45]

Lol. Same here when i went to LA I was amazed at how awesome it was!! My favorite city in the world and thats why Im moving down there one day. Deffinetly a world class city.

[lenicrombie]

yes

[Jasonhouse]

Hey people, words are nice in a debate about a city's classification, but nothing changes opinions like RELEVANT pictures... (hint hint)

[SChristopher]

L.A. kicks ass, never a boring moment and there is something for everyone!

[Zeus]

World Class? Of course!! Los Angeles has the most languages spoken in 1 zip code in the US...and that number is... 39!!!!!

[Dao]

Hey people, words are nice in a debate about a city's classification, but nothing changes opinions like RELEVANT pictures... (hint hint)

Jason, I would not move a finger to convince anyone to the fact that LA is a world class city!!!...... :|

[simulcra]

Personally, I don't like LA, and I'm principally opposed to the crass, automobile-driven society that LA represents, its 3+ million main residents and 12 or so million suburban residents. I personally wish I never have to live there nor spend *that* much time having to do business there.

But even then, I simply can't deny LA's status as a world class city. When determining a world class city, you have to look beyond your personal preferences in what a city "should" be, but look simply at the raw economic influence that a city wields. London isn't a world class city because it has an awesome urban core, but because it's a financial capital, a trade nexus, and an important political arena. Likewise, LA holds some raw power. The fact that some people might not like the city doesn't change its importance.

EDIT: I am still open to LA, having not seen *terribly* large amounts of it. I do admire some of the directions LA is going in building its city, and I realize that not ALL of LA is just a billion suburbs and that there are some real urban cores.

[Flatiron]

I dislike LA myself, but certainly think that in terms of economic power, cultural influence (Hello, Hollywood!), ethnic diversity and urban issues it is most certainly a world class city. Some interesting architecture too, from Irving Gill, Greene & Greene, Frank Lloyd Wright, Neutra, Schindler, the 1950s, etc. etc. etc....

[kiku99]

i think LA can be considered as a "world class city" but the downtown area needs to be improved.

[savvysearch]

Hi, Im new. This debate is so funny. Of course Los Angeles is a world-class city. It is one of the TOP TEN most visited cities in the world. I think that qualifies. It doesn't look like a world class city but it acts like one.

What you have to remember (and what you cannot ignore) is that Los Angeles is only about 80 years old since it first populated one million people. Chicago, New York, Paris, and London are MUCH older than Los Angeles. Cities go through phases of destruction and development before they define themselves. Paris defined itself centuries ago. Los Angeles is just begining to define itself now. It doesn't have a deep history and that is why people criticize it. And it lacks such discernment when people compare Los Angeles to other cities. It's like siblings picking on the newborn in the family.


But all this is pointless because when people say "world class city", they mean "tourist-class" city. In that respect, Los Angeles is behind (mainly because of public transportation). But you cannot say that Paris is as cultural influential as Los Angeles in THIS century. Or that Chicago is more culturally or economically powerful now. As much as people try to deny television, movies and music as being important, these are some of the most consequential factors in shaping our American culture. But to think that Los Angeles only has the movies.tv.music industry is short-sighted. That's only the 4th top industry in Los Angeles.
World class city? Let's see:

--dominates in music, television, movie industry (and therefore American culture)
--dominates nation in manufacturing and fashion apparel,
--dominates nation in aerospace
--largest international trading region in the nation
--one of top 5 design centers in the world
--LA's jet propulsion lab is without peers in robotic space exploration (cassini at Saturn, rover at mars)
--scheduled to surpassed New York as most populous city as well as most multicultural.
--top ten most visited cities in the world.
--leader in communications and new media
--the most diverse economy in the US


Hmm, if it isn't a world class city , it sure acts like one.
Added, that more than half of Angelenos are early generation immigrants ready to define themselves as Americans. "Los Angeles isnt called "the capital of the third world" for nothing. You have to bet that these immigrants are going to dramatically change Los Angeles in the future and add to Los Angeles' domination in a variety of industries.

[savvysearch]

Oh, one more thing to add. Architecture! Can you name any other city in the US with such a huge amount of great mid-century residential architecture? (lovell health house, schindler house, case study series, chemosphere, bubble house, arts and crafts movement). Also, its curious three of the most acclaimed buildings that have been built in the US in the last decade have been in Los Angeles (getty, the new cathedral and the new Walt Disney Hall).
Architecturally, I think this may be Los Angeles' era as Paris, SF, Chicago, New York, Tokyo are all built out.

It'll be interesting because Los Angeles is close to being all sprawled out, so this second developmental phases is coming where the city has to start reinvesting and reconstructing what it already has. YOu see that already happening with the amazing progress of downtown Los Angeles ever since Disney Hall came into town.

[SILVERLAKE]

Hell yeah, LA is world class. Think about all the celebrities who could live anywhere in the us or world and they choose to live here. Do you think Spielberg really "needs" to be in LA, or Pam Anderson, or Drew Barrymore? They could live anywhere and fly off to their jobs as needed, but they live in LA!

When the richest most glamorous most famous people in the world choose to live somewhere, it can be nothing but one of the greatest cities.

[Dubai_Boy]

Silver lake maybe its because its easier to get to where they have to shoot a film :)

[Jasonhouse]

I don't see how where celebrities choose to live means a damn thing. If anything, it would remind me where NOT to live. Most of those people are pretty off kilter.

[The Urban Politician]

First of all, Savvy Search,

Chicago dominates LA in Economy. It has been undisputedly rated the most diverse U.S. economy and by far the most active economic center by numerous business magazines. Also its metro area has more fortune 500 companies and more companies with greater than 1500 employees than any other city other than NYC (read Fortune Magazine). By the way, the LA Times is OWNED by the Tribune Co. headquarted in Chicago! And let's not even compare LA's economic status to NYC.

As far as population, LA's metro area may exceed New York's eventually, but that's not as relevant because NYC's density makes LA's look like Nebraska. And if you cut out the metropolitan area, NYC alone has more than double the people that LA (the city) has.

Furthermore, as far as being the center for fashion, media, etc, WHAT are you talking about? NYC is the fashion capital of the nation, as noted by all of the major designers and fashion shows, magazines, etc being based there. As far as media, pretty much every production company in LA is owned by a media giant in NYC. That includes movie studios! Let's not forget that ALL the major publishers are in NYC. ALL the major TV networks! Even CNN, based in Atlanta, is owned by Time-Warner in NYC.

Regarding architecture, I mostly agree. Personally, I prefer the more urbanized architecture of cities like San Francisco, Chicago, NYC but LA definitely has some cutting-edge stuff.

Leads the nation in Aerospace? Boeing is in Chicago (with large operations in Washington), NASA is in Florida, Lockheed Martin is in Colorado. Airbus is in France! That's all the big ones. Northrup Gunman in LA is like number 12 on the list, I think...

Dominates in manufacturing.....true statement. But there are a few other dominant manufacturing centers to the east..

Culture? Tough one to argue. But all I can say is that in at least 3-4 national rankings, I have seen NYC, Washington DC, and Chicago ranking the top 3 in culture (which means museums, attractions, theatre, etc), but we all know that depends on how you define "culture" so the jury will probably always be out. In some rankings, Baltimore and Boston even make the top 4-5.

There are plenty of LA people in this forum who will readily agree with your assumptions, Savvy, but lets be a bit more objective. LA is a great city with a lot of diversity, tons of people, and great economic opportunity, no doubt. It is fun, lots of famous people, etc, but I can't stand here and watch you make it seem greater than it really is. Besides, one of my friends from LA once said that "the coolest thing about LA is that the people are chill". Leave the annoying bragging and boasting to those tightwads in the East!!

[Money Man]

^ I'm asking out of curiousity, where did you find your information at? Is this Fact or ficition?

[savvysearch]

You are actually right about Chicago having a more diversified economy than LA. I think you are not being objective concerning other things. But I will show you the light.

Most of what you talk about is finance. A headquarter is finance but not industry. Actual industry is in Los Angeles. True industry is where the jobs and talent are.

According to the Aerospace Industry Association (AIA), (http://www.aia-aerospace.org/issues/commission/statebystate_report.pdf) state by state (2001) report, California has employment of 294,000 with 2,800 establishments, next is Texas with 184,000 with 1,700 establishments, then Washington, Florida, New York with 117,600, 114,000, 97,000, respectively. Los Angeles County has 58% of aerospace employment of CA which is 171,000 employed. 90% in Los Angeles metro. Boeing (which merged with McDonnell which merged with Douglas of Los Angeles) has expanded 12 locations in LA County including its sea launch program. Lockheed division of Lockheed Martin was a company from Los Angeles, and still has presence there. Its missile and space division is headquarted in LA metro, but its skunkworks division is in Los Angeles County. Northrop Grumann is now 5th (http://biz.yahoo.com/ic/profile/airdef_1001.html) in the world, 3rd in nation, and 2nd in defense. Not to mention 1 in shipbuilding. Practically all the top US companies have presence in LA to work with private companies and talent.
With population density (http://www.demographia.com/db-ua2000-4dense.htm), although hard to believe, Los Angeles is actually more dense than New York. In 2000, Los angeles density/sq. mile was 6,720. NY's was 5,309. And if you say density is what matters...

NYC is the fashion capital of HIGH fashion. It lead is women's outerwear and tailored clothing. Los Angeles (http://www.laedc.info/pdf/Fashion-2003.pdf) leads in contemporary wear, active wear, surfwear. Actual SALES (http://www.californiafashionassociation.org/PDF/strategy_2003.pdf) we lead New York. Not to mention Hollywood's influence on fashion. I doubt Calvin Klein has as much influence on the mainstream.

As for television, movies, come on! It's LA. Finance is in New York. But actual talent and employment and choices that INFLUENCE is all in Los Angeles. New York has news and cable media. (That is not new media. New media is communcation/animation technology.) New York studio heads make the money, but not creativity.

As for architecture, Chicago surpasses NY in high rise architecture, but Case Studies series in LA has all the artistic acclaim.

With culture, museums and theatres, concert halls are HIGH culture, but you cannot contend that it is nearly as consequetial as "low" culture such as movies, music, tv. But if we are talking about "high" culture, there are 80 theaters and 300 museums (http://gocalifornia.about.com/library/weekly/bl_la_itin_cult.htm), MORE than Chicago or New York. Not to mention the beach, the mountains, desert, snow, golf, etc.



So you see? It actually IS that great. :)

[The Urban Politician]

Mr. Savvy, I respect your points, however:

Boeing is the No. 2 Defense Contractor in the U.S.

Also, it is simple arithmetic that does not require looking at a book. Take the population of NYC (8 million) and divide it by its size (around 350 sq miles?); compare that to LA (3.8 million) and divide by its size (450-500 sq miles?). Why argue this point?

I agree with you, upon retrospect, with headquarters vs. industry. I happen to prefer headquarters simply because they call all the shots. However, there are many more jobs in the industry itself as compared to the headquarters. Nevertheless, if people in LA want anything done (movies, TV shows, etc) they have to appease executives in NYC. That's power.

Also, it is not the NUMBER of museums and theatres that matter. Theatres in NYC and Chicago as well as Museums in both cities have attained great international status and have top rankings. Just because you have 40 museums doesn't mean much (the museum of nose-picking, etc). What LA does have is a very eclectic environment that is outstanding in its ability to do innovative things, there is no doubt about that.

By the way, according to Fortune Magazine 2 months ago, there are 50 Fortune 500 HQ in New York state and around 51 or so in California. Of the ones in NY State, about 47 or 48 are headquarted in Manhattan. Of the ones in California, about 5-6 were headquarted in LA. LA keeps taking credit for things in California in general. I'm talking JUST the city LA. Don't forget about San Francisco, which VERY much carries its own weight in regards to economics, academics, culture, etc. LA is not centralized like NYC or Chicago, thus you lose out on the benifits of proximity--different corporations, types of people interacting closely and creating potent business relations.

Anyway, I'm not trying to diss LA, I actually really love it. But down with the HOT AIR, man!

[SILVERLAKE]

Of course LA is world class plus look we are building the New Times square as we are the new New York.

See...

http://lang.dailynews.com/news/files/land_projects/hotel3.jpg

look what Chicago is building a mirror covered pinto bean that costs a hundred million dollars or something like that, like anyone will want to go see that. It is so like the corn palace in south dakota. Nothing glitzy or glamorous about a mirror covered bean...I'd much rather have Times Square or at least a 21st century version of it. That is much more world class, something only seen in NY or Tokyo and that is LA's league.

http://www.chicagoarchitecture.info/Images/TheLoop/CloudGate-005.jpg
:weirdo:

[Dampyre]

Of course LA is world class plus look we are building the New Times square as we are the new New York.

See...

http://lang.dailynews.com/news/files/land_projects/hotel3.jpg

look what Chicago is building a mirror covered pinto bean that costs a hundred million dollars or something like that, like anyone will want to go see that. It is so like the corn palace in south dakota. Nothing glitzy or glamorous about a mirror covered bean...I'd much rather have Times Square or at least a 21st century version of it. That is much more world class, something only seen in NY or Tokyo and that is LA's league.

http://www.chicagoarchitecture.info/Images/TheLoop/CloudGate-005.jpg
:weirdo:

LA in New York or Tokyo's league? :laugh: Anyway, the "mirror-covered bean" is part of the $500 million Millenium Park. How much does LA's Times Square ripoff going to cost? At least they could have thought of something original.

[The Urban Politician]

Oh yeah, buy a couple of billboards and put shiny lights on them so you can emulate NYC's Times Square. WOW Silverlake, that is really special! I saw LA trying to do that with CityLights--what a stupid ripoff that was! All you do is walk around in an otherwise typical mall but with digitalized billboards. Oooh, I'm so BLOWN AWAY!

I think even a city like Pheonix, Arizona could do that if they wanted to. In fact, Silverlake, the picture you are showing looks like it could all be built with a few thousand dollars!

Go ahead and keep trying to recreate NYC in LA, while Chicago continues to commission Great works of art

[The Urban Politician]

By the way everyone, I honestly REALLY DO like LA a lot!

But seriously, if this wannabe Times Square thing actually gets built I'll have to think that's pathetic.

[SILVERLAKE]

You won't think it is pathetic when you see the 55 story skyscraper that is getting built along with it!!!! You will love it and be jealous of it when you come see tens of thousands of people on the streets of downtown LA. LA may be the second city but NY will soon be the second megalopolis in the next ten years of so!

By the way everyone, I honestly REALLY DO like LA a lot!

But seriously, if this wannabe Times Square thing actually gets built I'll have to think that's pathetic.

[SILVERLAKE]

Go ahead and keep trying to recreate NYC in LA, while Chicago continues to commission Great works of art

:weirdo:

That bean is a great work of art? You got any more crack? No playaz will be hanging out at the mirror bean...but all of OCs and LAs playaz will be hanging out in the new new york!

[savvysearch]

Urban,

"The acquisitions of Litton Industries, Newport News, and TRW have made Northrop Grumman (http://biz.yahoo.com/ic/11/11093.html) the world's #1 shipbuilder and the #2 US defense contractor (behind Lockheed Martin)." Boeing is number 3 in this respect.

As for density. Its hard to argue with the US census bureau (http://www.demographia.com/db-ua2000-4dense.htm).

I think you over represent the power of headquarters in terms of Hollywood. Its the studios and studio producers that greenlight and produce the movies, The power of stars and directors are usually what really get project made. Headquarters' responsibilities are trying to get investments to fund the projects and the cost of the talent.


And you are right, it is not the numbers of institutions that matter. But I think it is not necessary to remind that the Getty Museum is one of if not the most prestigious museum development in the world that has been built THIS century. Not to mention the acclaimed Walt Disney Concert Hall, but I will.

When has Los Angeles taken credit for California? LA never laid claim to computers or internet. That belongs to San Jose. (although San Franciso tends to take credit for that). I think that is just perception considering how Los Angeles is so prevalent when outsiders think of California. Ask people what they think of California, they always think Hollywood.

In 1950s New York had 140 top Forbes 500 companies. In 1980, it had 77. This year, it has 41. See a trend? It is very telling that the #1 company is in Arkansas. Companies are spreading out throughout the US. The idea of a city's prominance defined by how many fortune 500s it has is quickly becoming an outdated concept. The idea of a single centered city is an old world model. The new model is basically what Los Angeles represents, multicentered which is better for industry.


Although all these comparisons are pointless since Los Angeles is younger than both Chicago and New York. It is quite telling that Getty, Disney Hall, and possibly the last Cathedral to be built in the US was built in Los Angeles in the past 8 years. Not to mention billion dollar developments like both Grand Ave. and Staples Center.

[SinCity]

I don't think so.. its big... but not really a "world class city"

My opinion exactly, big but highly over-rated on many issues.

[The Urban Politician]

Savvy, I have no energy for this anymore.

First of all, that website you directed to me to, as I well expected, describes "urbanized areas". Once again: CITY! Let me repeat myself: CITY! One more time: CITY!!!!!!!!!!!! We are on "skyscrapercity.com" not "mass of suburbs.com", remember? Once again, grab your local World Almanac and use simple arithmetic. San Francisco and Chicago are more densely populated than LA! Repeat: CITY!! Get over your stupid website that is SO CLEARLY not addressing what I'm talking about.


Also, Northrup Gunman is a 2nd rate company. Don't ever waste my time again comparing it to mega-giants like Lockheed Martin and Boeing. All of your stats are obviously coming from boutique pro-LA worshipping bohemian magazines.

Sure, NYC doesn't have the dominance it used to. But guess what? LA doesn't either! And you know what? It never will--it will always be a playground for NYC executives. Get rid of Hollywood and LA will be Tucson, Arizona.

That's the problem, LA compares itself daily to NYC for a reason. You never see New Yorkers comparing themselves to LA. They know NYC rules the world's economy, and there's a reason for that. So as you see, my time is being wasted. I totally love LA, and I will not let my mind get bogged down with illusions about the city that you are casting. I am hereby finished posting on this forum.

LA ROCKS, and I look forward to many years enjoying this world-class city!!!
BTW, I"m not an east-coaster. I'm from Michigan. One last note: Chicago also KIX this shit in the A$$!!!!!!!!!

Now lets go party
:dance:

[savvysearch]

Well, I just thought we were having lively debate, but clearly I've upset you so I guess I'll stop.

[Jasonhouse]

Just so you know Silverlake, you're not being warned again to quit trollling. When I get back in town tomorrow, your ass is Brigged.

[SILVERLAKE]

Just so you know Silverlake, you're not being warned again to quit trollling. When I get back in town tomorrow, your ass is Brigged.

Jasonhouse,

Please don't brig my ass. I'm not trolling the Chicago threads. I'm on the LA threads celebrating LA. The Chicago people are on this thread saying LA is not world class or not as good as Chicago. I'm just speaking up and supporting LA's new developments and great skyscrapers (the best in the world). People can argue fortune 500 this or that, museums, theaters etc... but all that really matters is the media and in the world's perception LA is the place to be!

[The Urban Politician]

Sorry, Savvy, I was not angry, you're right we were having a lively debate.

By the way, I was completely wasted when I wrote my last message, thus the extreme statements.

But anyway, it was nice talking the issues. I have intruded this forum probably with more negativity than I should have, so I'm done. Talk you guys later!

[Dampyre]

Jasonhouse,

Please don't brig my ass. I'm not trolling the Chicago threads. I'm on the LA threads celebrating LA. The Chicago people are on this thread saying LA is not world class or not as good as Chicago. I'm just speaking up and supporting LA's new developments and great skyscrapers (the best in the world). People can argue fortune 500 this or that, museums, theaters etc... but all that really matters is the media and in the world's perception LA is the place to be!

You were the one who started bashing Chicago out of the blue. You've done it in this thread and others. At least be man enough to take responsiblity for your actions.

[LA4life]

Los Angeles is just about as world class as a city can get. Anyone who believes otherwise needs to come and really explore this city. One thing about LA is that it is so big that a lot of people just don't get to explore the whole thing. Which is really sad because visitors leave the city without seeing everything LA has to offer. For example, did you know that LA has a district named 'Little Ethiopia' right off Fairfax? There is a strip of Ethiopian shops and restaurants along Fairfax. I mention this because this is something I just discovered recently. That is one thing I love about LA. You always discover places you never knew existed. I live in Orange county and dont always have time to explore the city of LA. But evey time I do I am simply amazed at how diverse and cosmopolitan the city really is. In LA you can literally run into people from countries you didn't even knew existed. I'm telling you, THE WORLD LIVES IN LOS ANGELES. Now if that isn't world class I don't know what is.

[SILVERLAKE]

You were the one who started bashing Chicago out of the blue. You've done it in this thread and others. At least be man enough to take responsiblity for your actions.

OK, but I don't talk trash on Chicago threads, I just read em.

[Denny]

Those of you who say Los Angeles isn't world class must be living in the past (or at least in a cave somewhere). You obviously don't know what "World Class" means. Take a look at this excellent website about Los Angeles and get yourselves educated. http://www.geocities.com/los_angeles_coast/index.html

[pwright1]

Yes

[Dao]

Yes

how predictable, you're from the northwest... :sleepy:

[pwright1]

I lived in L.A. for a bit. I absolutely love it.

[Denny]

I hate Frisco. My grandfather had his wallet stolen by a pickpocket. A sidewalk bum vomited right in front of me and my wife. Our hotel was infested with cockroaches. Frisco is overated. It's not the same town that it was even ten years ago. Those positive images of Frisco still linger in peoples minds I'm sure. It's not even the third biggest city in California anymore. That honor goes to San Jose.

[Money Man]

Wow i'm surprized at how sucessful this thread was or(is). San Francisco is still an amazing city. I was there just last year, and seemed GREAT to me. What hotel did you stay in? I personally don't think that San Francisco is overrated. I think almost all California Cities are underrated(except for Fresno). :bash:

[ChrisLA]

Awe Fresno not all that bad, I rather live there over Bakersfield, Barstow, Victorville, and even Stockton. :)

[Money Man]

^ That's true.

[IntrepidMan]

Personally, I don't like LA, and I'm principally opposed to the crass, automobile-driven society that LA represents, its 3+ million main residents and 12 or so million suburban residents. I personally wish I never have to live there nor spend *that* much time having to do business there.

But even then, I simply can't deny LA's status as a world class city. When determining a world class city, you have to look beyond your personal preferences in what a city "should" be, but look simply at the raw economic influence that a city wields. London isn't a world class city because it has an awesome urban core, but because it's a financial capital, a trade nexus, and an important political arena. Likewise, LA holds some raw power. The fact that some people might not like the city doesn't change its importance.

EDIT: I am still open to LA, having not seen *terribly* large amounts of it. I do admire some of the directions LA is going in building its city, and I realize that not ALL of LA is just a billion suburbs and that there are some real urban cores.

What a refreshing post. Someone who doesn't necessarily like LA but is willing to admit it's a world class city, which it most certainly is. I'm so tired of people just stating their opinion like it's fact. It's one thing to say you don't like LA -- which is fine, no one likes everthing -- but to deny its world-class status is just very frustrating to hear.

[rayman]

L.A world class city?? hmm both yes and no , Hollywood and beverly hills is world class but the rest is not world class, but it seems like a cool city anyway with lots of mix rich and poor, black, asian, white people etc etc movie stars and non movie stars :laugh: ;) good mixing city

[Hobgoblin]

There's no doubt about it - Los Angeles is indeed a world class city. Sure, some may argue that LA doesn't have a "world class skyline" or a "world class subway system", but there is more to being a world class city than a skyline or subway system. What matters is the economic influence a city has on its area and country. There is no denying that LA's economic power is very important to the US and abroad -- the USA would not be the powerhouse it is today if LA vanished.

And for all you "experts" that hold onto your claim that LA is one bug sprawling suburb should try *visiting* the city before drawing such a colclusion. Take a drive around downtown, Hollywood and Westwood. Take a drive down 3rd street or Wilshire Blvd and try claiming that LA is a "suburb". Sure LA doesn't have the skyscraper canyons that Manhattan does, but that's because LA had room to spread it out.

There is no question that LA is, in fact a world class city.

[nightcrawler]

to L.A. asi has been always considered him (world-wide class) is the city with
the metropolitan zone but extensive of the world and third but
important of EU I believe that the subject does not come to the case
that all know it

[LtBk]

If it weren't for Hollywood, Beverly Hills and other rich areas, LA would be nothing but a 3rd world, suburban sprawl version of NYC, with most of population living in ghetto areas, with little to no PT. Before anybody else says something, i been to LA last summer. Many parts of it isn't pedestrian friendly.

[savvysearch]

If it weren't for Hollywood, Beverly Hills and other rich areas, LA would be nothing but a 3rd world, suburban sprawl version of NYC, with most of population living in ghetto areas, with little to no PT. Before anybody else says something, i been to LA last summer. Many parts of it isn't pedestrian friendly.

That really doesn't make any sense to be writing that. That's like saying if there were no rich people, there would only be poor people. Or if Microsoft didn't have Windows, it would be just another software company.

You are also talking about Los Angeles without Santa Monica, Pasadena, Venice, Brentwood, Bel Air, Westwood, Malibu, Century City, and Pacific Palisades. Los Angeles IS the rich areas, IS the ghettos, IS the middle class. By the way, how does pedestrian friendly have to do with world-class? It doesn't.

[LA1]

Most of the population living in ghetto areas? Since when? West LA has around 1 million, almost of it wealthy, to upper middle class. SFV has some bad areas, but most of the population there is middle class with very wealthy areas too. If most of LA is living in ghetto areas, NYC is too. So is Chicago. LA's bad areas just look better.

[The Urban Politician]

Nightcrawler, I just read your last post...


What the HELL did you just SAY??

[Dao]

If it weren't for Hollywood, Beverly Hills and other rich areas, LA would be nothing but a 3rd world, suburban sprawl version of NYC, with most of population living in ghetto areas, with little to no PT. Before anybody else says something, i been to LA last summer. Many parts of it isn't pedestrian friendly.

also if my aunt had balls, she would be my uncle

LOL :lol:

[The Urban Politician]

to L.A. asi has been always considered him (world-wide class) is the city with
the metropolitan zone but extensive of the world and third but
important of EU I believe that the subject does not come to the case
that all know it


What the hell are you talking about...

[SILVERLAKE]

plus we had two summer olympics!!!!!!! how many summer games has NY had??/

I know Chicago has zipp and no chance of ever holding it there

[LtBk]

I'm just curious:Why LA is so suburban?

[Imperfect Ending]

Because it spands

[savvysearch]

Originally, people came to live the suburban life that was white middle class. And then too many people came for that lifestyles from all over the world and the city became too popular. Now the city has to adapt a suburban environment into an urban one. Even so, everyone still wants a house. Everyone wants a car. And no one wants to live in an apartment unless they really have to.

[findo102000]

plus we had two summer olympics!!!!!!! how many summer games has NY had??/

I know Chicago has zipp and no chance of ever holding it there

yup even our mayor said that we would never hold it during his tenure because of all of the money it takes to bring the facilities up to olympic standard (or build new facilities)

in case i didn't answer yes LA is world class

[The Urban Politician]

It's funny how people in the Chicago and NYC thread never bash LA yet the LA people are always comparing themselves to NYC and Chicago.

Hmm... I wonder why that is?

Oh and by the way,

I still have NO IDEA what Nightcrawler was talking about in his last message!!

[The Urban Politician]

to L.A. asi has been always considered him (world-wide class) is the city with
the metropolitan zone but extensive of the world and third but
important of EU I believe that the subject does not come to the case
that all know it

:dunno:

What does it mean?

[savvysearch]

Because this thread is specific to whether LA is a World class city. Comparisons are the only means to put things in scope. Take away this one specific thread, and this board becomes as normal as any other board. As with the comparisons, I do recall you starting up a few NYC and Chicago camparisons as well. It seems a lot of people from other boards have the energy to enter the LA board and make the NYC/Chicago comparison as well.

Even looking at the title for the first time, I knew it was going to get busy. Just by the nature of the title, it leaves people with an excuse to diss LA.

[Jules]

plus we had two summer olympics!!!!!!! how many summer games has NY had??/

I know Chicago has zipp and no chance of ever holding it there

It wouldn't be a good idea to have it in Chicago.

I used to think LA was world class, but after this SILVERLAKE character always bashing Chicago, I now don't believe LA is even one of the top 5 American cities.

[Rapid]

Yes, I do. LA makes the best movies (hollywood). And it is beautiful (some parts).

[Dao]

It wouldn't be a good idea to have it in Chicago.

I used to think LA was world class, but after this SILVERLAKE character always bashing Chicago, I now don't believe LA is even one of the top 5 American cities.

LOLOLOLOLOLLL

Silverlake has that effect on people!! :lol:

I think he likes movies more than your average angeleno though..

[The Urban Politician]

to L.A. asi has been always considered him (world-wide class) is the city with
the metropolitan zone but extensive of the world and third but
important of EU I believe that the subject does not come to the case
that all know it

Perhaps you're right, SavvySearch, just like nightcrawler is right in his above statement...

[Dao]

Perhaps you're right, SavvySearch, just like nightcrawler is right in his above statement...


Do you even understand what his saying!! :eek:


:D

[SChristopher]

It is no doubt world class, but needs some work on its infrastructure. Water systems, horrendous amount of registered autos etc etc. And come on you guys movies??

[The Urban Politician]

to L.A. asi has been always considered him (world-wide class) is the city with
the metropolitan zone but extensive of the world and third but
important of EU I believe that the subject does not come to the case
that all know it

I would love to have a bumper sticker that says the above statement

[vicecityguy]

It's funny how people in the Chicago and NYC thread never bash LA yet the LA people are always comparing themselves to NYC and Chicago.

Hmm... I wonder why that is?

Oh and by the way,

I still have NO IDEA what Nightcrawler was talking about in his last message!!


Oddly, I think this is the other way around. I like New York and Chicago... but they don't compare to LA as a whole.

[SILVERLAKE]

I didn't "BASH" Chicago you....

I just said, you can't see them having an olympics!!!!!! ONLY LA HAS TWO SUMMER GAMES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! IN US@!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


It wouldn't be a good idea to have it in Chicago.

I used to think LA was world class, but after this SILVERLAKE character always bashing Chicago, I now don't believe LA is even one of the top 5 American cities.

[The Urban Politician]

Oddly, I think this is the other way around. I like New York and Chicago... but they don't compare to LA as a whole.

They don't compare to LA, you're right.

They are more urban.
You guys in this forum have no sense of history. This is SKYSCRAPERPAGE.com, man! What do you guys think this forum is about? NYC and Chicago are undisputed centers of Skyscraper and transit-oriented urban development in the US. Give me a break, guys, give them the respect they deserve on this of all forums. I mean, really, this isn't BestCity.com or Coolestplace.com or Largestsprawledoutmetropolisconsuminggasolinesothatarrogantstubbornamericanscanspendtheirlivesonthefreeway.com . It's Skyscraperpage.com, and After NYC and Chicago--San Francisco, Boston, and Philadelphia all take the cake. All of these are urbanized cities. You guys should just have your own forum LArulz.com, then I PROMISE I won't tread it. There you can pretend that LA is the great urbanized Skyscraper city that you want it to be without getting bothered by reality

[Evgeniy]

There you can pretend that LA is the great urbanized Skyscraper city that you want it to be without getting bothered by reality

We just don`t need to pretend this. LA is a great urbanized skyscraper city whether you like it or not. Otherwise, I wouldn`t think that LA would have gotten its own forum at SSC.

[ChrisLA]

Largestsprawledoutmetropolisconsuminggasolinesothatarrogantstubbornamericanscanspendtheirlivesonthefreeway.com


:soapbox:

Hum okay

Dude you need to check your stats, both the NY & Chicago metro sprawl is worst than LA. If I remember correctly I read that NY metro even has more freeway/express miles than Los Angeles. There are very few LA forumers that disrespect Chicago. Its the other way around, LA is bashed in many threads even when the thread really has nothing to do with the city. If you don't like LA, thats fine, but go troll somewhere else. THIS IS AN LA THREAD!

Oh BTW, I lived in Chicago before, so don't try and educate me. I've seen a lot more of the city than even a lot of the residents. Its a great city, and I like it but it has a lot more problems then many on this forum are willing to admit. And thats not to say LA don't have issues either, yet there is no denying LA is still a world class city whether you like it or not.

[SILVERLAKE]

:soapbox:

If you don't like LA, thats fine, but go troll somewhere else. THIS IS AN LA THREAD!
.

MY SENTIMENTS EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I would never go talking trash about Chicago, in the official "CHICAGO" threads. WHY ARE THE CHICAGO DUDES COMING IN HERE TO MIX IT UP WITH US WHEN WE NEVER GO IN THERE!!!!!!!!! I don't think I have read one thread in the dedicated Chicago part of the forum. The LA threads must be much more interesting if they are coming up in here like that!!!!!!!!!!!!

[vicecityguy]

They don't compare to LA, you're right.

They are more urban.
You guys in this forum have no sense of history. This is SKYSCRAPERPAGE.com, man! What do you guys think this forum is about? NYC and Chicago are undisputed centers of Skyscraper and transit-oriented urban development in the US. Give me a break, guys, give them the respect they deserve on this of all forums. I mean, really, this isn't BestCity.com or Coolestplace.com or Largestsprawledoutmetropolisconsuminggasolinesothatarrogantstubbornamericanscanspendtheirlivesonthefreeway.com . It's Skyscraperpage.com, and After NYC and Chicago--San Francisco, Boston, and Philadelphia all take the cake. All of these are urbanized cities. You guys should just have your own forum LArulz.com, then I PROMISE I won't tread it. There you can pretend that LA is the great urbanized Skyscraper city that you want it to be without getting bothered by reality


Sorry dude, this is not skyscraperpage.com... it's skyscrapercity.com.

And regardless, the topic of this thread is "Do you think L.A. is a "World Class City"... so everyone has a right to post how they feel. The thread doesn't ask if LA is better than Chicago and NY. Those cities are good at high density highrise and urban transportation... LA is better at many other things... it is just what is more important to you. LA is very dense in a very different way, just as NY and Chicago are guilty of sprawl.

To me LA is great! I happen to like the weather where I can drive year round in my convertible with the top down, bumping into Carmen Electra at Starbucks and visiting Venice Beach during Christmas. Its all about what's important to you, if you like dense cities with towers next towers... great.. but in the end how does that really affect you? Didn't think so..

[SChristopher]

www.Largestsprawledoutmetropolisconsuminggasolinesothatarrogantstubbornamericanscanspendtheirlivesonthefreeway.com.
Someone should purchase the rights to that

[Money Man]

Chris L.A.: "Oh BTW, I lived in Chicago before, so don't try and educate me. I've seen a lot more of the city than even a lot of the residents. Its a great city, and I like it but it has a lot more problems then many on this forum are willing to admit. And thats not to say LA don't have issues either, yet there is no denying LA is still a world class city whether you like it or not."
I couldn't agree more. Hopefully what I'm going to say makes sense. I've said before that L.A. is a city that is known for every who,what,where,when,why because of the media that's here. I'm going to make L.A. be personified, but Los Angeles doesn't hide its problems. When something here happens, you hear about weither it's across the nation or around the world.
Examples of problems: O.J. Simpson, Laci Peterson, L.A. riots, ect. New York City and Chicago don't have the media weight that L.A. has because L.A. is known for entertainment and news.
For the people that diss L.A. or don't care for it, that's fine, but if you have no reasoning for you to say something, why bother? All it will do is either piss somebody off, or make them talk crap about your city. You set yourself up.(Not to be taking personally) I'm just trying to be broad.

[savvysearch]

Moneyman, I'd have to disagree with you about NY not getting as much media attention focus on issues in LA. There's Martha Stewart, 9/11, Mayor Guiliani, and the taxi cab strike for the last few years. For LA, there was Laci Peterson, alleged police brutality, and Disney Hall. We both shared Courtney. :)

[The Urban Politician]

Yeah Money Man, I guess that's why NYC owns the entire "media" and "movie" industry in LA and Tribune Corp in Chicago owns LA's premier newspaper (as well as some local TV stations). There's no doubt LA is a media superheavyweight but lets get a clue

[Money Man]

^hey!! You don't have to be rude about it!

[Wellington]

From a paper "World cities and territorial states under conditions of contemporary globalization" by Peter J. Taylor, Loughborough University:

"Table 2

An inventory of world cities. Cities are ordered in terms of world city-ness values ranging from 1 to 12.

World city-ness values produced by scoring 3 for prime centre status, 2 for major centre status, and 1 for minor centre status for each of the four services. For rationale of divisions into classes of city, see text

A. ALPHA WORLD CITIES

12: London, Paris, New York, Tokyo

10: Chicago, Frankfurt, Hong Kong, Los Angeles, Milan, Singapore

B. BETA WORLD CITIES

9: San Francisco, Sydney, Toronto, Zurich

8: Brussels, Madrid, Mexico City, Sao Paulo

7: Moscow, Seoul

C. GAMMA WORLD CITIES

6: Amsterdam, Boston, Caracas, Dallas, Dusseldorf, Geneva, Houston, Jakarta, Johannesburg, Melbourne, Osaka, Prague, Santiago, Taipei, Washington

5: Bangkok, Beijing, Montreal, Rome, Shanghai, Stockholm, Warsaw

4: Atlanta, Barcelona, Berlin, Buenos Aires, Budapest, Copenhagen, Hamburg, Istanbul, Kuala Lumpur, Manila, Miami, Minneapolis, Munich

C. EVIDENCE OF WORLD CITY FORMATION

Ci Relatively strong evidence

3: Athens, Auckland, Dublin, Helsinki, Ho Chi Ming City, Luxembourg, Lyon, Mumbai, New Delhi, Philadelphia, Rio de Janeiro, Tel Aviv, Vienna

Cii Some evidence

2: Abu Dhabi, Almaty, Birmingham, Bogota, Bratislava, Brisbane, Bucharest, Cairo, Cleveland, Cologne, Detroit, Dubai, Guangzhou, Kiev, Lima, Lisbon, Manchester, Montevideo, Oslo, Rotterdam, Riyadh, Seattle, Stuttgart, The Hague, Vancouver

Ciii Minimal evidence

1: Adelaide, Antwerp, Arhus, Baltimore, Bangalore, Bologna, Brazilia, Calgary, Cape Town, Colombo, Colombus, Dresden, Edinburgh, Genoa, Glasgow, Gothenburg, Hanoi, Kansas City, Leeds, Lille, Marseille, Richmond, St Petersburg, Tashkent, Tehran, Tijuana, Turin, Utrecht, Wellington"

Page 11

http://www.bu.edu/transportation/Pol_Geog.pdf

[SChristopher]

Cool - ness. I beg to differ with columbus, ohio being present on there and the omission of larger and more important cities that actually have a strong industry base, is there a columbus anywhere else that could be LOL.

[edsg25]

Reality check from a Chicagoan:

Excuse me, but Los Angeles is the SECOND largest city in the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, a country that still dominates the world. Could there really be any question that it is a world class city?

[Booyashako]

I'm in LA right now...I believe it has what it takes to be a world class city
- Global influence (entertainment)
- Diverse (Many styles, cultures, cuisine, etc.)
- Internationally recognized
...Just to name a few

LA is a great city, and the city which I hope to call my home when the opportunity comes.

[tmac9wr]

Hell yeah, LA is world class. Think about all the celebrities who could live anywhere in the us or world and they choose to live here. Do you think Spielberg really "needs" to be in LA, or Pam Anderson, or Drew Barrymore? They could live anywhere and fly off to their jobs as needed, but they live in LA!

When the richest most glamorous most famous people in the world choose to live somewhere, it can be nothing but one of the greatest cities.

How does having lots of celebrities living in LA make it one of the greatest cities? Boston has lots of ridiculously rich people too, but that's not what makes the city great. Things like education, culture, economics, and meaningful attributes should be what makes a world city, not the fact that people with money live there. Along with some of the richest people, LA also has some of the poorest people, along with a very high crime rate. The fact that people can look pretty and be in a movie and then get rich doesn't make a city great...I hate how some people look at celebrities and think "well they're there, so it's great" or "they do that, so that must be cool"...What kind of educational institutions are located around LA? I know that UCLA is in LA, but what other educational opportunities are in or around LA (I'm not criticizing, I really don't know)?

Also, you talked of how LA is making a "new Times Square" and that people will envy it. How does LA making an imitation Times Square make it an envious place to be? Can't people come up with their own idea to make the city unique...and the fact that there's going to be a 55 story tower by it won't make it envied by anyone, the real Times Square is surrounded by dozens of 55 story towers.

I don't like LA but I definitely do think it's a world class city...and it'll definitely grow into one more and more as time goes. Even though I'm not a big fan of celebrities or those types of people, the whole entertainment industry make LA unique and a world city(note: I don't think that this makes LA good). LA is cool I guess, but it always looks like it lacks a soul, it's always portrayed to be a bunch of criminals in the 'hood, or a bunch of heartless entertainment industry bigwigs or some drugged out celebrity who lacks any real happiness. I would really like to think it was something more than that. I'm sorry to come off as a hateful person, but I just really have always got a terrible impression of Los Angeles.

[savvysearch]

How does celebs have anything to do with world city? It doesn't. Silverlake's arguement is not a very good one.

It seems you need to get out to West LA if you want to dispel the myths about LA being full of celebrities and moviestar bigwigs. This is only a slight fraction of emplyment in Los Angeles. LA is more into manufacturing and porting industry. Other than UCLA, there is USC, Pepperdine, Caltech. And some famous design schools. Those are a pretty good group of schools.

With this NEW TIMES SQUARE, it is just developer hype. It doesn't even look like Times Square. LA isn't really trying to make times square, it is an entertainment district to go along with Staples Center. But the reason why it is so important is because it will bring a lot of development into that area as well as complete the convention center hotels.

As far as poorest people, that's an unfair criticism for LA that has more to do with geographic location of being so close to the Mexicali border. LA has the most illegal/legal immigration of anywhere in the US coming from Central America and Asia. This is where the brunt of poverty is in. It is a challege no city in the midwest or east even has a fraction of facing.

[SChristopher]

How does having lots of celebrities living in LA make it one of the greatest cities? Boston has lots of ridiculously rich people too, but that's not what makes the city great. Things like education, culture, economics, and meaningful attributes should be what makes a world city, not the fact that people with money live there. Along with some of the richest people, LA also has some of the poorest people, along with a very high crime rate. The fact that people can look pretty and be in a movie and then get rich doesn't make a city great...I hate how some people look at celebrities and think "well they're there, so it's great" or "they do that, so that must be cool"...What kind of educational institutions are located around LA? I know that UCLA is in LA, but what other educational opportunities are in or around LA (I'm not criticizing, I really don't know)?

Also, you talked of how LA is making a "new Times Square" and that people will envy it. How does LA making an imitation Times Square make it an envious place to be? Can't people come up with their own idea to make the city unique...and the fact that there's going to be a 55 story tower by it won't make it envied by anyone, the real Times Square is surrounded by dozens of 55 story towers.

I don't like LA but I definitely do think it's a world class city...and it'll definitely grow into one more and more as time goes. Even though I'm not a big fan of celebrities or those types of people, the whole entertainment industry make LA unique and a world city(note: I don't think that this makes LA good). LA is cool I guess, but it always looks like it lacks a soul, it's always portrayed to be a bunch of criminals in the 'hood, or a bunch of heartless entertainment industry bigwigs or some drugged out celebrity who lacks any real happiness. I would really like to think it was something more than that. I'm sorry to come off as a hateful person, but I just really have always got a terrible impression of Los Angeles.

I agree 100000% I like some aspects but I hate the emptiness and the weird dillusions that people have there that I have never seen in any other place in my life....

[SChristopher]

How does celebs have anything to do with world city? It doesn't. Silverlake's arguement is not a very good one.

It seems you need to get out to West LA if you want to dispel the myths about LA being full of celebrities and moviestar bigwigs. This is only a slight fraction of emplyment in Los Angeles. LA is more into manufacturing and porting industry. Other than UCLA, there is USC, Pepperdine, Caltech. And some famous design schools. Those are a pretty good group of schools.

With this NEW TIMES SQUARE, it is just developer hype. It doesn't even look like Times Square. LA isn't really trying to make times square, it is an entertainment district to go along with Staples Center. But the reason why it is so important is because it will bring a lot of development into that area as well as complete the convention center hotels.

As far as poorest people, that's an unfair criticism for LA that has more to do with geographic location of being so close to the Mexicali border. LA has the most illegal/legal immigration of anywhere in the US coming from Central America and Asia. This is where the brunt of poverty is in. It is a challege no city in the midwest or east even has a fraction of facing.

Do you know where Mexicali is? Secondly I agree with you about the staples center et thing but I thought it was called off. Downtown is one of the few places in LA that could make sense along with Wilshire Center and all the adjacent areas if they would pump some money to it instead of sprawl and retardedness. A great part of eastern and southern portions of LA are poor that is why they dont have this attitude. But like you said the west side and alot of its suburbs even friggen Valencia have this airhead mimick britney spears attitude to them or Jane Soccermom-ism.

[savvysearch]

You are being too literal. Mexicali as in Mexi-co/Cali-fornia border. Not the city. With the Staples Center entertainment district, its still in development.

[ChrisLA]

I agree 100000% I like some aspects but I hate the emptiness and the weird dillusions that people have there that I have never seen in any other place in my life....

You know I hear this argument so much, but its usually from someone who moved here from somewhere else. I'll bet if you ask all these folks who you say have this emptiness and weird delusion, 9 out of 10 will be from somewhere else.

What I found to be true are those who are phony and fake, and into that being a star, are not from LA. Everyone I know who are native Angeleno are very genuine and you would probably find them to be more real and very straight forward than probably some NY'ers. Anyone who have met me will tell you I very straight forward, and not a fake person. I have family who has worked for movie studios, and not one of them would come off as fake, but very down to earth. Don't take this personally, but this really bugs me. Just some of the comments I've read, I see most outsider have no clue how LA function. These same folks claim they don't buy into the media hype, but yet by their comments it comes though bright and shining they actually do. The fact that they claim LA is either very poor or very rich and no in between. It actually has a very sizeable middle-class.

The fact they claim we have a such a high crime rate, tells me they watch too many movies, its far from the truth. Action and drama sells movies, and LA is an easy place to use since the movie industry is here. A lot of folks need to stop assuming every 'Boyz In The Hood' and 'Colors' movies is what happen in large areas of the city. I grew up in some rough parts of this city, and yes there are areas that can be dangerous, but what city doesn't. It a very BIG city, but the majority of the city is not crime ridden.

[SChristopher]

I dont find most of LA threatening for crime. I lived in LA from when I was 6-16 so I went to high school there until I moved away for school. So I know alot of what its like and how people act. And ya know what the part that I went to school in was like that because I went to school with children of stars and rich snobs and hell stars themselves. I was on my own at 14 and I lived downtown and around Wilshire and Normandie and actually I never really got the airhead vibe from those locations but there was a great deal of people that just didnt speak english minding their own business, and then downtown where at that time NO ONE lived there except for in SRO hotels and the expensive condos or apartments like the metropolitan etc. Its still simalar to then right now though from what I have seen. But you are right obviously in some repressed areas and a few others it is not going to have that retarded attitude.

[ChrisLA]

^
I was actually referring to that Boston guy who claims LA has such a high crime rate.

Your experience with LA people isn't really the reality of the majority of its citizens. Thats why it really borthers me that so many peope draw this conclusion that the city of full of fake and self centered people. This small group of people probably make up less than 1% of the population. You will even hear some actors from NYC say this as well. Now if they took their self center behinds out of the Hollywood movie circles, their experience would be totally different.

As I said in the past, this hasn't been my experience with Angelenos. Its usually those who move here from someone else that seems to be star stuck, and trying to make it big as an actor. Yet they are the same ones who will say LA is full of fakes, but they are the main ones getting plastic surgery, and have all kind of drama in their lives. I haven't met one person from LA that had plastic surgery, but I know a few who are from other US cities who's went went under the knife.

[SChristopher]

You seem to speak of a selective part of LA of course as far as long beach and in 'the hood' there are not going to be as many fake people. Do you think I was in a movie circle when I was there, do you think I am when I visit? I said that there is a good part of la that could give a shit. But in answer to the questiona t hand LA is world class as I have stated before.

[ChrisLA]

^
No I'm not being selective, I'm speaking about the majority of LA. Not everyone I know lives in the hood, in fact hardly any of my family and friends live in the hood. Compared to other industries in the LA area, the movie/media business is pretty small and doesn't really affect most residents. If you're part of a circle that has very little contact outside the industry, well I guess it would seem like everyone is in the business, thats not a reality. It bugs me to no end how those who know little about the average Angeleno makes this judgement. A good number of those who make such ignorant statement seemed to be part of the business. I'm not saying you have, but many of your post comes off as if this what a lot of LA is about. Just to let you know, I'm pretty familiar with the LA metro, I have worked in every region of the metro from downtown, San Fernando Valley, San Gabriel Valley, Orange County, the South Bay (Manhattan Beach, El Segundo) and Bevely Hills. I also have family that lives or have lived in all parts of this region, I have a huge family and friends who are from all different income levels.
So basically I'm not speaking out of my butt :)

Just to let you know I don't doubt what your experience was, yet at the same time I don't think that represent what the majority of LA's residents are like, it a very small percentage of people like this. I've seen this same types in Chicago, San Francisco, NYC, and hell even Fresno. It's not something unique to LA.

[SChristopher]

I am not even talking about the 'business' or even people who want to be in it, I am talking about the plastics in general. Long Beach is probably a little more grounded as is most of the southern/eastern portions of the metro. And maybe it could have been isolated to where I was because like I said when I was hanging out in Wilshire Center , Hermosa, hell Culver, Downtown...it wasnt like that. A good deal of west valley is. I am not trying to make a generalization and I am sorry if I came off that way. I guess more of my anger came out for people such as one person on here that cuts down other cities because they are not on TV and putting alot of stock into the media, and I realize it may not be a majority but alot of people do that and it was bringing back memories and getting at me.

[The Urban Politician]

As much as I love arguing with you LA guys, I think there is no doubt that LA is a world-class city.

However, you guys need to work on urbanizing the city's environment more. This overreliance on the freeways is a KILLER!

[edsg25]

As much as I love arguing with you LA guys, I think there is no doubt that LA is a world-class city.

However, you guys need to work on urbanizing the city's environment more. This overreliance on the freeways is a KILLER!

Fully agree on world-class status and need for more uban environment, UrbPol. But here's a question that Angelenos should try to answer:

So much of LA and surrounding LA Co grew enormously after WWII. One can make an argument that no US metro area was built on sprawl as is LA. Add to this a topography which puts some pretty extensive mountains (Hollywood Hills/SM Mts) right in the heart of town. LA was filled with edge cities years before the term came into existence.

Can LA, given its layout ever achieve urbanity, ever create a meaningful rapid transit system (that would need to blanket the area and connect numerous areas with each other without going through downtown)? And, if unable, what are the implications if cars, at some point, become less viable in urban transportation?

[Osborne]

However, while LA relies so exclusively on the car, its streets will always feel lonely and it will have no soul... The loneliest feeling city I've ever been to.

Thank God for those mountains and that sunshine.

[smussuw]

I believe its a world class city. because when i was younger in early 1990s i used to watch (beverly hells serial) sp?. even when am living in an unknown city called Dubai before.

[The Urban Politician]

Not only that, but I also think LA is world ASS city

Last time I was there I saw so many fine ass women!

[Dampyre]

Not only that, but I also think LA is world ASS city

Last time I was there I saw so many fine ass women!

You've got that right. Everytime I go to LA I have a blast.

[geoff_diamond]

It's a world class resort... but, I'll never call it a city.

[aerial]

LA is the world's second best city after new york! ;)

[J Block]

LA is the world's second best city after new york! ;)

the public transportation system sucks...therefore it can't be the world's second best city...

[savvysearch]

the public transportation system sucks...therefore it can't be the world's second best city...

It is for those who drive a car. ;)

[dom]

Ok, I'll throw my hat in here. LA is one of the most important cities in the world but I don't really regard it as completely 'world class.' Its certainly world class in some regards, e.g. Movie Making, Police Force, Music industry, Weapons Manufacture etc but imo I regard San Francisco as more of a 'world class' city than LA. Firstly, LA doesn't have a proper shopping area etc in the centre.

Secondly, the city centre, around bunker hill and amongst all the skyscrapers is dead at night...whats going on?! The opening of the Walt Disney Hall was definitely a fillip for the city centre, more things like this are needed before LA can be a truly world class city.

More public transport and a reduction of crime are also important. No doubt, LA is one of the most powerful cities in the world top (5-6 certainly) but just because its powerful doesnt mean its a world class place to live or a world class city. Similarly, Osaka is a really powerful city but its not world class either.

San Francisco, Boston, Chicago and New York are all world class imo. All of my friends who went to LA went to the centre and said 'is that it?'....a few towers (admittedly very nice) but they all remarked that they couldn't wait to go to San Francisco, Las Vegas or San Diego because they thought they were going to be mugged.

LA can certainly become world class, but it needs to develop the city centre more first and become more 24 hour there. I've no doubt that this will happen in the near to medium future.

[vicecityguy]

There is more to LA than just the city center... and a world class city is not just defined by the number of high-rises near the city center.

Boston and San Francisco world class??? Um, okay! Hah!

[dom]

where would many people prefer to live?

the impression outside of the states of LA is that its got a big film industry and has lots of rich people etc lots of glitz and glamour and cocaine but they wouldnt want to live there. all the people i know who've been to LA have told me that they were disappointed and preferred SF. Would you prefer to be big and bad, or smaller and higher quality? Its simple, the urban environment is better in Boston or SF than LA. If you think that 'edge' cities, and private 'gated' communities with private security forces are the way forward because the real city is too dangerous, then fine...but i wholeheartedly disagree with you. I wouldn't want to live in a city where people feel as though they need to lock themselves in self-enclosed communities because they are scared of the outside world.

Imo, this is not the way forward.

[Imperfect Ending]

Los Angeles is really boring to live in... its more fun if you are a tourist...

[savvysearch]

There is more to LA than just the city center... and a world class city is not just defined by the number of high-rises near the city center.

Boston and San Francisco world class??? Um, okay! Hah!

It's kind of funny Vicecityguy. All these arguments revolve around basically "how can the city entertain me!" Is that how we define a world city these days? If it's like Disneyland? Tourism is important for a world class city, but entertaining people is not the sole definition of the world city. Just because Paris, London are single centered, doesn't mean LA should be. LA is multicentered and is really the original experimental prototype for the 21st century city. Many of my friends hate SF and NY. Not to say that there is anything wrong with SF and NY, but it seems that some people really need to understand the saying "when in Rome.." instead of saying "how come there isn't any good pizza in this place!" It's just so obvious that LA is a world city. People from all over the world come to live here and visit. It wouldn't be one of the most populous cities if it wasn't. I don't know even the point of this thread.

[savvysearch]

where would many people prefer to live?

the impression outside of the states of LA is that its got a big film industry and has lots of rich people etc lots of glitz and glamour and cocaine but they wouldnt want to live there. all the people i know who've been to LA have told me that they were disappointed and preferred SF. Would you prefer to be big and bad, or smaller and higher quality? Its simple, the urban environment is better in Boston or SF than LA. If you think that 'edge' cities, and private 'gated' communities with private security forces are the way forward because the real city is too dangerous, then fine...but i wholeheartedly disagree with you. I wouldn't want to live in a city where people feel as though they need to lock themselves in self-enclosed communities because they are scared of the outside world.

Imo, this is not the way forward.

But obviously people in Los Angeles DO like the gated communities. And basically their opinion is the one that really matters because they live there.
That's not your perogative, but that doesn't mean everyone has the same perogative as some others. Or that one's perogative is somehow an argument that LA isnt world class.

If you want a house, the URBAN jungle is a horrible place to have one. And big families NEED a house. People will be hard to find a loft with 3-4 rooms. The problem with urban areas is that eventually they price everyone out of the city. Notice that EVERY SINGLE ONE of the urban cities: SF, Boston, Chicago, Manhattan are inexcusably expensive. And that is NOT a good thing to have a city transformed into basically a wealthy enclave. Urban centers are fun and such and have bookstores and coffee shops and they attract the middle class, but the catch is that they are not doing what they SHOULD be doing. Which is to raise the lower class up to the middle class. The lower class couldn't care less about living near a Starbucks. The lower class just goes elsewhere, to the more afforable suburbs. Affordable housing there just doesn't exist. And, being the backbone to the US, they just take the economy with them. And the cities KNOW that. That's why the trend in cities is toward affordable sprawl, like metro NY.

But anyway, you'd be glad to know that the trend in LA is the opposite. So LA just might have the best deal in the future to have a balance of both unlike other cities. It can't expand anymore and now has to reinvesting in its urban cores and transportation, but already has as strong suburban base and an intact center to still be able to provide afforable housing in its urban core. Anyway, the point is that, no matter how much people deride suburbs and praise urbanity, the suburbs are basically doing what the urban jungle can't. Of course the opposite is true as well in other aspects.

[dom]

yes but a city that requires gated communities isnt a happy or a safe city. LA might be a world city but at present imo, it is not a world class city.

[ChrisLA]

yes but a city that requires gated communities isnt a happy or a safe city. LA might be a world city but at present imo, it is not a world class city.

And how do you come about this belief. I grew up in LA, and I can assure you there are very few communities that are gated. Really the only gated communties I can think of are outside the city. Many of you have no clue about LA other than what you hear and see in the movies which is far from the truth. Crime is no worse than many of the other cities you mentioned. You don't think NYC and Chicago don't have high crime areas? You are sadly mistaken if you think LA is alone when it comes to crime. Every city has crime and outside some high crime neighborhoods the city would be considered quite safe.

Hancock Park is example of a wealthy area that within the city of LA. There are no gates around this neighborhood and it quite open and scenic to walk around. Like I said before the some rich people live behind gates in their hugh homes, but thats is the case everywhere. Do you think the rich in NYC and Chicago live in high rises that aren't under security? Next time you visit those two cities why don't you check it out and see how many of those buildings you can get into. I can assure you will be greeted by a security guard and need a key or a code to get in. So in your view, no city can be world class because every last one of them have crime. Especially the three biggest american cities have high crime areas.

[greywolf]

I am a fourth-generation Angelino. The setting for the city is quite spectacular, especially in winter when the mountains are snow-covered. However, as an urban area, it really is too diffused to be considered "one" city. Brentwood, Hollywood, San Pedro and downtown Los Angeles may as well be in four distinct countries. I left Los Angeles many years ago. The traffic, the smog, and the need to travel great distances for the simplest of reasons became a drag. The stupidest thing that ever happened in LA was the ripping up of the Pacific Electric system in the 50's. Once that happened, the only really serious problem most Angelinos face is parking. Cruel as it may sound, an 8.2 (Richter) earthquake ought to clear out the mess so that we could start over again. This time, allow more area for parks, reforestation, and develop an efficient mass transit system. As for the issue of crime and slums, has anyone been to Paris, London or Rio de Janeiro lately? LIke most large cities, LA has its safe areas (e.g., Santa Monica) and its very dangerous areas (e.g., Boyle Heights). But most of the city is bleak and monotonous. Is LA a world city? Of course! Any urban area with over 12 million people is a world city. But Los Angeles lacks the cohesion and sense of place that San Francisco and New Orleans possess. In San Francisco, going out to dinner is an experience. In Los Angeles, if parking is available, nothing else matters. It is to be regretted that so many cities are following the sorry path Los Angeles has traced --- Phoenix, Atlanta, Houston, Tel Aviv, Cairo, Manila, Mexico City and many, many other huge urban areas. The future is not quite so bright for many cities. But it does not have to be like this.

[savvysearch]

I am a fourth-generation Angelino. The setting for the city is quite spectacular, especially in winter when the mountains are snow-covered. However, as an urban area, it really is too diffused to be considered "one" city. Brentwood, Hollywood, San Pedro and downtown Los Angeles may as well be in four distinct countries. I left Los Angeles many years ago. The traffic, the smog, and the need to travel great distances for the simplest of reasons became a drag. The stupidest thing that ever happened in LA was the ripping up of the Pacific Electric system in the 50's. Once that happened, the only really serious problem most Angelinos face is parking. Cruel as it may sound, an 8.2 (Richter) earthquake ought to clear out the mess so that we could start over again. This time, allow more area for parks, reforestation, and develop an efficient mass transit system. As for the issue of crime and slums, has anyone been to Paris, London or Rio de Janeiro lately? LIke most large cities, LA has its safe areas (e.g., Santa Monica) and its very dangerous areas (e.g., Boyle Heights). But most of the city is bleak and monotonous. Is LA a world city? Of course! Any urban area with over 12 million people is a world city. But Los Angeles lacks the cohesion and sense of place that San Francisco and New Orleans possess. In San Francisco, going out to dinner is an experience. In Los Angeles, if parking is available, nothing else matters. It is to be regretted that so many cities are following the sorry path Los Angeles has traced --- Phoenix, Atlanta, Houston, Tel Aviv, Cairo, Manila, Mexico City and many, many other huge urban areas. The future is not quite so bright for many cities. But it does not have to be like this.

The great pacific system was overrated. That was when LA was very small. There is no way that system could have handled anything the way LA grew over night. The red cars were considered slow and annoying. I think history has become very nostalgic. The current metro system we have now I consider much better. And when they extend to east LA and Santa Monica within the next few years, it should finally be more or less a workable system. Cities, like LA, have to come to that conclusion on their own. If it has problems now, then it will fix it. But I find it short-sighted when people say, "oh they should have done this or that". People seem to forget that not to long ago, NYC was considered a slum. Absolutely tragic way to live. Poverty and crime everywhere. Murder capital for most of the last century. People forget that not to long ago the cities were considered a failure. The anecdote for that was "suburbanize" the urban areas. Of course suburbs now also have problems, so to fix that they have to do the opposite which is to try to urbanize. I prefer suburbs. If someone likes the core, that's fine. But I consider it on par to living inside of Disneyland park.

[savvysearch]

So in your view, no city can be world class because every last one of them have crime. Especially the three biggest american cities have high crime areas.

I never understood how people say, LA has a crime rate because the way it is made. Maybe that argument held up when LA was murder capital of most of the 90s but now it just got surpassed by the other 2 or 3 big cities in the US, which are some of the most "urban" in the US and more than LA, so people really can't use that argument anymore.

[Pinay24]

LA has a highest crime rate which of course all big cities do but it is a WORLD CLASS CITY.

[thyrdrail]

I've lived in NYC for many years and I live in L.A. now and no, I don't think it is a world class city but instead is a world class suburb. Cuz it really is just one sprawling suburb. If you want to compare it to NYC (and other "world class cities" like London, Paris and Tokyo), LA lacks many things that those cities offer like convenience of public transportation, large number of cultural, arts and educational institutions, large size and quantity of mass media, large number of top global corporations headquarters/Fortune 500, high level of cultural/racial integration among communities, etc.

[bay_area]

Los Angeles is definitely a world class city.

Only the most anti-LA zealot would think otherwise. Put aside the perceived lack of public transit, the grimy DT, the lack of a cohesive urban center, and the scrawny corporate presence.

LA easily and effortlessly has shopping comparable to New York, Paris, London and Tokyo. Los Angeles has restaurants equal to or superior to those found in the above mentioned cities. Los Angeles has five star hotels, Los Angeles has more celebrities then anywhere else. LA has cultural amenities and things to do that rival ANYWHERE. LA is a jet-set magnet just as much as NY is. LA is a fashion capital and trendsetter. LA also has lots of millionaires and billionaires. Beverly Hills and Malibu are more famous around the world then any neighborhoods in London, Tokyo, New York or Paris. People from Soweto to Mumbai to Novosbirsk are captivated by LAs movie machine. And do we really want to get into LAs racial and ethnic populations? If LA isnt world class, then neither is any other city.

Besides,
Being "world class" isnt that special anymore anyway. F--k the "world". I prefer cities that beat to their own drum anyway.

[ChrisLA]

I've lived in NYC for many years and I live in L.A. now and no, I don't think it is a world class city but instead is a world class suburb. Cuz it really is just one sprawling suburb. If you want to compare it to NYC (and other "world class cities" like London, Paris and Tokyo), LA lacks many things that those cities offer like convenience of public transportation, large number of cultural, arts and educational institutions, large size and quantity of mass media, large number of top global corporations headquarters/Fortune 500, high level of cultural/racial integration among communities, etc.

I respect your opinion because it is an opinion. Yet I truly wonder if you really live in LA with comments like those above. We are talking about the city of LA right, not the entire metro or LA county?

You say it lacks educational institution, how so? When I think of NYC the only big schools that comes to mind are NYU and Columbia University. LA has USC and UCLA, plus many other local universities, in the region.


cultural/racial integration among communities?
I guess south central doesn't count because its certainly not all black. In fact its probably less than 50% African American. NYC isn't all that integrated either, it just seems more so because of the interaction of many different folks on the subways. Take a ride on a bus or subway train in LA and you'll see the same mixture. But like many LA neighborhoods, NYC are quite segregated. Not that long ago a friend of mine who is African American would visit an Italian friend in Brooklyn. When he arrive at the subway station, he would have to call him so he can meet up and walk him back to the apartment. Why, because as a black man walking alone they would try and harass him. Now when he's with an Italian from the area they would leave him alone. NYC doesn't seem all that integrated to me. Tokyo is hardly muti-cultural but does it dis-qualify that city as being world class? I think not. How does it not make LA world class when its way more muti-cultural than just about any city in America. Also from what I've read even more so than NYC.


LA lacks many things that those cities offer like convenience of public transportation, large number of cultural, arts.To a point I can agree on the public transportation. No its no where close to NYC system, but its not as bad as some like to make it out to be. I don't 1.3 million boarding’s a day isn't a small number either and the majority of that ridership are among city residents. Many of the metro suburban communities have their own bus agencies.

Cultural and arts, not sure what you mean by this. Have you ever read the LA Times Calendar section. I don't recall seeing a section this large in any city but perhaps NYC. I will leave out the metro area, but I guess you haven't been to the Music Center-Dorothy Chandler, Mark Taper Forum or the Ahamason Theater, Disney Hall. The LA County Museum of Art, The Getty in both West LA & Malibu, MOCA, the many museums just south of USC such as at Exposition Park, and LA's Southwest Museum. Guess what all of these you can reach easily by either train or bus. There are also an enormous amount of small live theaters in LA, again just look them up in the LA Times.

You say it lacks fortune 500 companies, well I have to say that is true, but the city did loose a lot of them recently due to the a lot of mergers not too long ago. Yet still this doesn't make a city world class, Houston has more but does it make it a more powerful than LA? I think not.

Behind NYC, LA has the largest economy, so that’s no small change. The LA port is one of the largest in the world and without it the country economy and trade would definitely be affected. Not that its a good thing, but why do you think these terrorists want to bomb it. It would have a major affect on the USA.

[ChrisLA]

I just like to add this regarding Exposition Park and its museums. Yes I do visit this place just in case you’re wondering.

One of LA's most popular cultural landmarks, Exposition Park is also one of its most historic. Initially developed in 1880 (along with the University of Southern California), it was formally dedicated in its present form in 1913, and is home to the Natural History Museum, the California Science Center (with its Aerospace Museum and IMAX Theater), the California African- American Museum and, of course, the sumptuous Rose Garden. Adjacent to USC, the park also hosts the LA Memorial Coliseum and Sports Arena, making it one of the most well-traveled spots in the city.

It's easy to make a day of it at Expo Park. The architecture alone provides a panorama of 20th Century design, from turn-of-the-century Beaux Arts to streamlined art deco and modern high tech. The seven and half-acre Rose Garden, with its grassy walkways, fountains and over 19,000 rose bushes, provides an idyllic retreat from the urban hustle and bustle of nearby downtown. The diverse array of museums can keep you occupied all day -- or all week, if you have the time -- with some of the best and most notable collections in the country.

[Accura4Matalan]

I think LA is overrated by Hollywood. Most American movies seem to be set in LA and its not that good. Certainly not as good as Chicago, New York, San Francisco and Buffalo.

[savvysearch]

Movie don't sucks because its set in LA. The movie probably sucks because it just sucks. Nothing to do with the city. I can name a ton of great movies set in the city, but everyone can probably think of some their own.

[savvysearch]

Paris isn't exactly the most racially or culturally integrated.

[The Urban Politician]

I think LA is overrated by Hollywood. Most American films seem to be set in LA and its not that good. Certainly not as good as Chicago, New York, San Francisco and Buffalo.

Buffalo? You've got to be kidding.

[bobdikl]

My defination of World Class citis are just some all-in-one capital cities...how big or small..it doesn't matter ...

But in USA....

National Administrator City = Washington
Financial Centre = New York
Best Shopping District = New York
Embassy District = Washington
National Arts Centres/Theaterland = New York
Hitech research city = Silicon Valley/San Francisco
Best national Intellectual/IQ Property = Where???

In a world class city you could enjoy all the new major musicals/operas/national theater(New York) at the best national-level theater with over 100 countries(Washington) ambassadors and their partner. Your boyfriend/girlfriend works in the stock exchange centre(New York). And you are a national computer scientist(Silicon Valley). High tea at embassy district(Washington) etc

You chould really enjoy these in London, Paris, Tokyo, Singapore, Kuala Lumpur, Seoul, Copenhagen, stockholm etc ..

[steel]

If you have to ask if a city is world class then it isn't

If you have to state that your city is world class then it isn't

[Imperial Teen]

LA is OK

[California EU]

LA is world class city, it has everything, but its a city like no other.

[TICONLA1]

Is Los Angeles a world class city, of course it is. just drive over the vincent thomas bridge and look at what you see, millions of containers from every country on the planet that has a container shipping operation. not to mention one of the largest ports in the world. take a gargantuean bulldozer and push all the skyscrapers downtown , you would have a skyline that rivals any so called "world class city". ethnic diversity, again bulldoze the neighborhoods downtown. world inflouence in the entertainment industry,areospace,music. crime, no more than any other W.C.C. with a population of over 3 million. the reason this is probably not seen or known is becouse LA is a late bloomer, not until after WW2 did LA explode in population and industry. its growth was haphazard at best (suburban if you will) so it lacks density. and even tho rail systems for public transportation are making a come back here, our freeway system has been a model for many older W.C.Citys (one of the most extensive high speed highway systems on the planet)!! I'm not saying this becouse i live here, i love all major citys becouse of what they represent to there locations. and not only that, i've been to many other world citys, and everyone ive met knew were LA was.!

[The Urban Politician]

^ I have already stated that LA is world class, but not for the some of the uninformed reasons TiconLA gives. Anything related to the design of the city or its highways systems is FAR from world class. First of all, having spent much time in LA, I laugh at Ticon calling them "high speed highways", since you average like 15 mph on them ALL THE TIME due to traffic jams. Sorry, but LA has the most pathetic transportation system in the nation and it shows by it having by far the longest commute times in the nation (compare over 90minutes vs. the second highest, which is so something like 53 mins).

Finally, this constant delusion put forth by TiconLA and other LA forumers that by lumping together all of their highrises they somehow have some world-class Hong Kong-like skyline. :hahaha: Where do you come up with this nonsense? That's like saying that if we lump every shopping mall in LA on top of eachother we'll get several highrises, or if we move all of LA's strip malls together on 1 street (and place the parking in the rear) LA will get an urban Main Street.

Bad news, guys. LA's scattered highrises still only add up to around 350 (top world class skylines always have at least 1000--and growing!). Secondly, a whole is greater than the sum of its parts. Just by theoretically lumping together random skyscrapers does not create a vibrant urban city life below. It's how those skyscrapers and the shops/plazas/street presence relate to eachother that really forms a cohesive downtown.

And LA's highway system has been a model for older cities? Not at all. It is widely known that the national highway system was modeled after the notorious Robert Moses, who created New York's parkway system in the 1920's and tore through the fiber of New York city to create its freeway system long before the National Highway Act (all when LA was still a backwater Mexican village). The highway concept designed by Moses was adapted by other older cities, ripping holes through already established neighborhoods in the Bronx, Queens, Philadelphia, Boston, Chicago, etc.

LA was largely underdeveloped and took these concepts to the extreme--a whole world of freeways (which it suffers from now), and now it is shifting in reverse. LA is trying to copy cities like NY, Chicago, and even its neighbor to the north--San Francisco--by developing a transit system. But I don't think a viable transit system will be possible in LA for a very long time due to the sprawled out design of both the city and its metro.

[TICONLA1]

OK in response to the Hong Kong statement, the former (H.K.) builds many many more skyscrapers becouse it HAS to. as compared to the later (LA),buildible land area/ population density, you do the math. as far as highways, LA's fwy system was designed for high speed. the prosess of building the 105 fwy took 14 years, it was downsized due to funding problems,(something about politican's spending to much money on consultants) and then again in favor of the metro green line using its medeian for track ( LA had the pacific electric rail system that was dismanteled in the 1950's in favor of the freeways, this system was very extensive and rivaled most east coast citys in miles of track in 1935) LA fwy's simply cannot handle the loads imposed on them, but they ARE highspeed. I leave for work between 0510 and 0520 arrive at work 0545 aprox. distance 22 miles (venice to east LA) aprox. speed 65 to 75 mph, 15 mph at any time.......BS . city freeway system modeled after LA's, Minniapolis/St.paul. as i said i love all citys as to what they represent to there location's. I did not join this web site to be confrontational, i'm 43 years old and far beyond the "my city is better than your city' BS! but i am NOT misinformed, and certainly not under any delusion

[Osborne]

I think that if your were very wealthy, theree would be few places in the better to live in than Los Angeles. Everything is catered for, and you have this amazing all-season lifestyle. The city just has this spectacular backdrop.

Some posts in this thread have lost perspective. California is the fifth largest economy in the world, and LA is the biggest city in the state. There are how many people living there? 10 million? Heaps anyway, and their lifestyle is beamed around the world via the most developed mass media industry on the planet. Southern California is a centre for high tech reasearch and development, as well as aerospace and shipping. There is no doubt that LA is one of the most significant and influential cities in the world. Just no doubt.

World Class.

[steel]

LA is not world class proven by the fact that you are all debating it and trying to come up with reasons and things to prove that it is. NYC does not have to prove its status as a world class city. It just is and nobody would question the fact. Similar with Paris Hong Kong, Rome, London. World class is ephemeral. It just is and once a city attains that status everybody knows it and there is no debate

[savvysearch]

LA is not world class proven by the fact that you are all debating it and trying to come up with reasons and things to prove that it is. NYC does not have to prove its status as a world class city. It just is and nobody would question the fact. Similar with Paris Hong Kong, Rome, London. World class is ephemeral. It just is and once a city attains that status everybody knows it and there is no debate

That statement really doesn't make any sense at all. Someone started this thread and so people post. If you debate whether Britney Spears is ugly or not, does that mean she's ugly for the fact that it's being discussed? I think you misunderstand the whole point of a debate.

[TICONLA1]

So then i guess the question becomes, what does a city have to HAVE to attain world class status??? According to steel world class is ephemeral, if thats the case then Los Angeles has recently began it's apperant short lived status as a world class city

[steel]

That statement really doesn't make any sense at all. Someone started this thread and so people post. If you debate whether Britney Spears is ugly or not, does that mean she's ugly for the fact that it's being discussed? I think you misunderstand the whole point of a debate.

All I am saying is that nobody would start a thread asking if NYC is a world class city. It would be stupid because everyone knows that it is and the question does not need to be asked. Once that happens to a place then the city IS a world class city.

[savvysearch]

All I am saying is that nobody would start a thread asking if NYC is a world class city. It would be stupid because everyone knows that it is and the question does not need to be asked. Once that happens to a place then the city IS a world class city.

That isn't a valid comparison. NYC is one of the oldest cities in the US. There are a few in which there is no doubt such as Paris and London, cities established 100 years ago. You can't make that comparison with Hong Kong, San Francisco, which are undoubtedly world cities but established recently and as such, are debatable.

[Imperial Teen]

That isn't a valid comparison. NYC is one of the oldest cities in the US. There are a few in which there is no doubt such as Paris and London, cities established 100 years ago. You can't make that comparison with Hong Kong, San Francisco, which are undoubtedly world cities but established recently and as such, are debatable.

The guy raises a good point.

Same with Chicago, no one would ever question its role as a world city. Chicago is and always has been the world's metaphor for modernism, and it was "born" around 1840. LA is much older having been a city since 1781!!!!

SF really hasn't been that influential in a global sense. Not nearly as influential as Chicago or NY. But it certainly is considered one of the great cities of the world and it is older than Chicago also.

LA being "young" is not an excuse.

And by the way, Hong Kong is a "world city" without question, just as much as Chicago or NY are. And I don't think Hong Kong is really that young either. It has been established for centuries, and was given to the British in 1842.

[steel]

i must admit i do not know if LA is world class or not. it is just that i do not just automatically accept it as one the way i do with paris or ny.

la certainly does influence the world with its movie industry. but movies are also filmed in ny and chicago and increasingly toronto is becoming a film capital so what if la did not have a monopoly on the film industry?

[TICONLA1]

Shipping.............if LA is not a world class city, it certainly is a world class port!

[savvysearch]

The guy raises a good point.

Same with Chicago, no one would ever question its role as a world city. Chicago is and always has been the world's metaphor for modernism, and it was "born" around 1840. LA is much older having been a city since 1781!!!!

SF really hasn't been that influential in a global sense. Not nearly as influential as Chicago or NY. But it certainly is considered one of the great cities of the world and it is older than Chicago also.

LA being "young" is not an excuse.

And by the way, Hong Kong is a "world city" without question, just as much as Chicago or NY are. And I don't think Hong Kong is really that young either. It has been established for centuries, and was given to the British in 1842.

No. LA didn't have a million inhabitants until 1920s. Before that, it was established by name only. If you want to say 1781, Historians would not agree with you as there were 5 people and a dog living in LA at that time. That doesn't qualify as being "established". It first has to have a significant population. Urbanists wouldn't refer to it as a "young city" if they considered it' established in 1781.

Furthermore, Hong Kong is considered a young world city for its emergence into prominance, which is just recently, not by the age of the city.

[savvysearch]

i must admit i do not know if LA is world class or not. it is just that i do not just automatically accept it as one the way i do with paris or ny.

la certainly does influence the world with its movie industry. but movies are also filmed in ny and chicago and increasingly toronto is becoming a film capital so what if la did not have a monopoly on the film industry?

It doesn't matter if LA has a monopoly on film. Most, by a long shot, are still filmed in LA. With Hollywood still considered the Capital. No city has a monopoly on anything. NYC doesn't have a monopoly on fortune 500. Paris doesn't have a monopoly on fashion or wine. That hardley hurts any city's reputation when they basically established those industries for a signficant period of time.

[morestoreysplease]

Yeah LA's a world class city! You've got everything you need, especially with the Metro now. I've seen 2 world buildings IMO - Getty Center and the Walt Disney Concert Hall. There are probably dozens more.
The only city in the UK that comes close to world status is London but that falls down against LA and NYC and Tokyo and even Paris by virtue of it's leisure amenities and complexes.

[Dampyre]

Yeah LA's a world class city! You've got everything you need, especially with the Metro now. I've seen 2 world buildings IMO - Getty Center and the Walt Disney Concert Hall. There are probably dozens more.
The only city in the UK that comes close to world status is London but that falls down against LA and NYC and Tokyo and even Paris by virtue of it's leisure amenities and complexes.

I'm sorry, but London is a much more important world city than Los Angeles.

[Suburbanite]

I'm sorry, but London is a much more important world city than Los Angeles.

No kidding. Since it is the capital of a major world power, to assert anything else would be laughable. The capital city of any wealthy nation must be ahead of LA simply by default. :bash:

[Imperial Teen]

No kidding. Since it is the capital of a major world power, to assert anything else would be laughable. The capital city of any wealthy nation must be ahead of LA simply by default. :bash:


So D.C. is "ahead" of L.A. by default.

[Suburbanite]

So D.C. is "ahead" of L.A. by default.

In terms of being a world city, yes D.C. is quite far ahead of L.A.

[The Urban Politician]

^that's right, baby!

[Srakovski]

No Doubt!! Thats why they call it L.A!!

[Dampyre]

In terms of being a world city, yes D.C. is quite far ahead of L.A.


Depends on how you look at it.

[Osborne]

Internationally, I think you'd find a greater awareness of Los Angeles than Chicago. Not only because of mass media either. It's bigger and more important than Chicago, although probably not London.

[TICONLA1]

OK so i again ask the question, what does a city have to HAVE! to be world class? can ANYONE answer this, or do you all really not know? other than being a seat of government how the hell does washington DC even qualify? in the united states i come up with 4 citys and 2 possibles in this order, new york city, san fransisco, los angeles, chicago, 2 prob's new orleans, boston,. i think one of the first and foremost qualitys a city must have to be "world class" is it MUST be a melting pot !!!

[morestoreysplease]

[QUOTE=Osborne]Internationally, I think you'd find a greater awareness of Los Angeles than Chicago. Not only because of mass media either. It's bigger and more important than Chicago, although probably not LondonQUOTE]

LA's about 3 times the size of London by geographical size. The only diff between London and US cities in World Class status is having pre-18th Century architecture and Palaces. If everything else is quantified then London doesn't hit the mark in comparison. Believe me, I'm English and have visited NYC and LA to help with me with my decision.

[Dampyre]

Internationally, I think you'd find a greater awareness of Los Angeles than Chicago. Not only because of mass media either. It's bigger and more important than Chicago, although probably not London.

The only thing LA has Chicago beat economically in is GMP size, population and media exposure. When it comes to corporate power, international exchanges, and just about everything else Chicago wins.

Of course, if you are the type of person who gets his information from TV I understand why you think LA comes out on top.

The fact that you say that London "probably" beats LA shows that you have an awful lot to learn.

[Suburbanite]

The only thing LA has Chicago beat economically in is GMP size, population and media exposure. When it comes to corporate power, international exchanges, and just about everything else Chicago wins.

Of course, if you are the type of person who gets his information from TV I understand why you think LA comes out on top.



Exactly! The only reason L.A. really gets any international exposure is because of the media and the fact that Hollywood has such a strangle-hold over the world movie industry. If you take those things out of the picture, Chicago would get way more attention than L.A.

[vicecityguy]

^^ Not really, its also the lifestyle in LA that is a big draw. People here are generally better looking, in better shape and with a lot more style! This is true because most people who come out here to "make it" or get discovered tend to be the better looking people from their own neck of the woods and make their way out here.

I think that these hotties, in their convertibles during the winter, are much more appealing to watch than Beer drinking and Potato eating Chicagonians shoveling snow and ice off their driveway.

I love LA!

[TICONLA1]

yes i would agree with that statement from a media standpoint, i lived in chicago for 5 years, and was impressed by the way the city operates as the main, central east/west rail distribution (as well as north/south) hub. however i'm just a touch more impressed by the loading / unloading prosess at the LA/LB port complex, of containers of at least 15 to 25 container ships a day ( not to mention other bulk commoditys) to me LA and chicago run extremely close to each other, tho chicago does take the lead in corperate HQ's , LA has the media lead. ................close these two are indeed!!!! ...................................................you know, i was born and raised in this city (LA) and tho the men and women do look great, (regardless of where the're from) i;d take a chicago woman over an LA women any day of the week,(i'm sorry i just can't stand plastic people) in chicago she asked me who i was, in LA she asks me what do i drive.!!!!!

[SILVERLAKE]

^^ Not really, its also the lifestyle in LA that is a big draw. People here are generally better looking, in better shape and with a lot more style! This is true because most people who come out here to "make it" or get discovered tend to be the better looking people from their own neck of the woods and make their way out here.

I think that these hotties, in their convertibles during the winter, are much more appealing to watch than Beer drinking and Potato eating Chicagonians shoveling snow and ice off their driveway.

I love LA!

YEAH LET THOSE PENGUINS FREEZE UP THERE! Hopefully their hotdogs will keep them warm if they stuff enough of them into their mouths. I think LA's world class restaurants and diverse cuisine make it superior than a city still living on hotdogs and fried potatoes! C'mon the 50s are over!

[Suburbanite]

^^

I think that these hotties, in their convertibles during the winter, are much more appealing to watch than Beer drinking and Potato eating Chicagonians shoveling snow and ice off their driveway.

I love LA!

I hate to break this to you but the "beer drinking and Potato eating" is certainly not unique to Chicago. In fact, I think you will find plenty of that even in that little sunbaked metropolis called L.A. Besides, you say that as if it is supposed to be an insult. :cheers: As far a shoveling snow and ice is concerned, I couldn't imagine a Christmas without it! :)

Anyway, I really have nothing against L.A. I have been there before and I think it is a fantastic city, but we are talking in terms of being a "world city" which means to me that what happens in the city has to affect the entire world economically and L.A., though it is does have an influence on the American economy quite a bit, I just don't see it having a massive influence on the world when compared to New York, D.C., and Chicago. That is all I am saying here.

Now, if you'll excuse me... :runaway:

[The Urban Politician]

YEAH LET THOSE PENGUINS FREEZE UP THERE! Hopefully their hotdogs will keep them warm if they stuff enough of them into their mouths. I think LA's world class restaurants and diverse cuisine make it superior than a city still living on hotdogs and fried potatoes! C'mon the 50s are over!

Chicago has consistently been ranked the top city for cuisine in this country next to NYC (in some rankings). In fact, the only city in California that sometimes beats those two out is San Francisco. I have never seen LA rank at the top in any culinary magazine.

LA has nothing on Chicago's culinary scene--you have nothing but babble to back up this dumb statement.

I think that these hotties, in their convertibles during the winter, are much more appealing to watch than Beer drinking and Potato eating Chicagonians shoveling snow and ice off their driveway.

^Hotties shmotties. I've seen hot girls in LA and I've seen plenty of ugly crap. All cities have their share of both. But your comment about driveways cracks me up--you're such a stupid idiot who has never been to Chicago.

Vice you are so stupid. You see, my inferior-witted friend, Chicago doesn't have so many "driveways" that require shoveling like the giant suburb called LA that you are from. We actually have curbs and sidewalks that directly face the entrances to buildings and houses, with parking in rear alleys.

You see, Einstein, Chicago is a real and urban city. It isn't a wannabe fake, like the place you are from. People walk, they use bikes, cabs & transit, and there is a real downtown; these are things you will never experience since you have never left your cute little LA bungalow. Every time you drive your car down the freeway to get groceries and look proudly over your so-called "city", just keep in mind that you are living a total delusion.

So go on and pretend you have intelligent things to say about Chicago and other cities, Vice City Guy, but we all know you don't.

[vicecityguy]

The Urban Politician,

Ummm, I have been to Chicago several times, so looks like the stupid idiot is you my friend.

I am surprised that my post got under your skin. Sorry I upset you so much, looks like you were really upset by my post. Calling me names on this thread won't do a thing to me! Actually, I like it that you had enough energy to pour into my post and you decided that you decided to post an "I'll show you" post... LOL!!! Thanks, keep it coming!

I will though comment on some of your silly statements: I don't drive down the freeway to get groceries, I buy them online. So you enjoy walking, using bikes, cabs and transit.. well sorry to break this to you but lots of people do that here but I guess you are so dumb you don't know that. If using bikes, taking cabs and transit make a city a city... than my friend you can call LA a city! Plain and simple. Nothing fake about that. and how many times did you edit your post to get it "just right" wink!

[ChrisLA]

^ :applause:

Gee I didn't know anyone took the freeway to buy groceries, and I live in LA. I guess Urban Politician knows more about the place I live in better than us. For some reason UP like to make nasty comments about LA, even when the thread has nothing to do with this Los Angeles. Must be envy that he feels the need to put the city down to feel good about where he lives.

[The Urban Politician]

The Urban Politician,

Ummm, I have been to Chicago several times, so looks like the stupid idiot is you my friend.

I am surprised that my post got under your skin. Sorry I upset you so much, looks like you were really upset by my post. Calling me names on this thread won't do a thing to me! Actually, I like it that you had enough energy to pour into my post and you decided that you decided to post an "I'll show you" post... LOL!!! Thanks, keep it coming!

I will though comment on some of your silly statements: I don't drive down the freeway to get groceries, I buy them online. So you enjoy walking, using bikes, cabs and transit.. well sorry to break this to you but lots of people do that here but I guess you are so dumb you don't know that. If using bikes, taking cabs and transit make a city a city... than my friend you can call LA a city! Plain and simple. Nothing fake about that. and how many times did you edit your post to get it "just right" wink!

^I edited my post for misspellings and grammar. I always do that. Yes, your post did annoy me. Your posts are useless and ignorant. The joke that you call transit use in LA is very laughable, considering that 5 people use it and it looks like a 10 year old kid's toy.

LA is not a city, it's a giant suburb--and nobody takes its useless downtown seriously. And yes, I did take out energy to create a "come back" message because your statement before that was a brilliant wedding of stupidity, anger, and ignorance and was just begging for a reply--don't pretend that somehow you are a casual, innocent victim here. You have a long history of inflammatory statements and we all know it. Finally, I enjoy calling you an idiot, by the way, because I take pleasure in the fact that I am introducing you to who you are :)

[The Urban Politician]

^ :applause:

Gee I didn't know anyone took the freeway to buy groceries, and I live in LA. I guess Urban Politician knows more about the place I live in better than us. For some reason UP like to make nasty comments about LA, even when the thread has nothing to do with this Los Angeles. Must be envy that he feels the need to put the city down to feel good about where he lives.

I live in DC. It is more important than 1,000 LA's, and much more beautiful

Did you think I live in Chicago? Sorry, buddy. Not a Chicagoan. I just know a great city when I see one, and for LA forumers to attack it just exemplifies what everybody criticizes about LA--they are arrogant and have no sense of history. That's why the cityscape is pock-marked with highways and strip-malls, and drive-thrus. That's why LA is so starved of real museums, great parks & fountains, and public spaces. It's a place where people go to be "cool" like Ozzy Osbourne.

PS: no insult intended towards Ozzy. Early Black Sabbath is phenomenal!!!

[VansTripp]

I live in DC. It is more important than 1,000 LA's, and much more beautiful

Did you think I live in Chicago? Sorry, buddy. Not a Chicagoan. I just know a great city when I see one, and for LA forumers to attack it just exemplifies what everybody criticizes about LA--they are arrogant and have no sense of history. That's why the cityscape is pock-marked with highways and strip-malls, and drive-thrus. That's why LA is so starved of real museums, great parks & fountains, and public spaces. It's a place where people go to be "cool" like Ozzy Osbourne.

PS: no insult intended towards Ozzy. Early Black Sabbath is phenomenal!!!

NO WAY!!! Washington D.C. have highest crime rate ever and more more expensive than Los Angeles.

[vicecityguy]

^I edited my post for misspellings and grammar. I always do that. Yes, your post did annoy me. Your posts are useless and ignorant. The joke that you call transit use in LA is very laughable, considering that 5 people use it and it looks like a 10 year old kid's toy.

LA is not a city, it's a giant suburb--and nobody takes its useless downtown seriously. And yes, I did take out energy to create a "come back" message because your statement before that was a brilliant wedding of stupidity, anger, and ignorance and was just begging for a reply--don't pretend that somehow you are a casual, innocent victim here. You have a long history of inflammatory statements and we all know it. Finally, I enjoy calling you an idiot, by the way, because I take pleasure in the fact that I am introducing you to who you are :)


That has to be the most ignorant post I've ever read! :okay:

[ChrisLA]

I live in DC. It is more important than 1,000 LA's, and much more beautiful

Did you think I live in Chicago? Sorry, buddy. Not a Chicagoan. I just know a great city when I see one, and for LA forumers to attack it just exemplifies what everybody criticizes about LA--they are arrogant and have no sense of history. That's why the cityscape is pock-marked with highways and strip-malls, and drive-thrus. That's why LA is so starved of real museums, great parks & fountains, and public spaces. It's a place where people go to be "cool" like Ozzy Osbourne.


You like to over exaggerate this entire Chicago/LA feud don't you. You have tried to demonize just about anyone who disagree with your outrages opinion about LA. The problem is the other way around a small group of Chicago forumers and people like yourself who trolls the LA threads. Often YOUR attack are uncalled for, and the majority of the time not even related to LA. I've seen where you have a habit of taking jabs in many threads that really has nothing to do with LA. Personally I don't go around attacking Chicago, or any other city. Also very few of the local forumers put down Chicago, thank god most of us LA forumer are civilized. I will usually respond every now and then to folks like you with your senseless attacks. I try to ignore them, but after a while it gets annoying. Why don't you try and be civilized, and perhaps maybe you won't get the negative feedback. So far from what I've seen you obviously aren't the most reasonable and truthful person. If you are? You would put out so much hatred and lies. Its okay to not like a place and I have no problem with that. I have a problem when you aren't open to reason, and when you put out stupid and ignorant remarks. The fact that you attack forumers and stoop to name calling tells me something about your character. I can say with complete confidence that LA is a much more healthy city than DC. I'm pretty sure many HONEST people who wouldn't disagree with this statement either. All DC really has going for it is the government. It has nice areas, but there are still many impoverish areas in the city that the government (USA) should be ashamed of.

[The Urban Politician]

You like to over exaggerate this entire Chicago/LA feud don't you. You have tried to demonize just about anyone who disagree with your outrages opinion about LA. The problem is the other way around a small group of Chicago forumers and people like yourself who trolls the LA threads. Often YOUR attack are uncalled for, and the majority of the time not even related to LA. I've seen where you have a habit of taking jabs in many threads that really has nothing to do with LA. Personally I don't go around attacking Chicago, or any other city. Also very few of the local forumers put down Chicago, thank god most of us LA forumer are civilized. I will usually respond every now and then to folks like you with your senseless attacks. I try to ignore them, but after a while it gets annoying. Why don't you try and be civilized, and perhaps maybe you won't get the negative feedback. So far from what I've seen you obviously aren't the most reasonable and truthful person. If you are? You would put out so much hatred and lies. Its okay to not like a place and I have no problem with that. I have a problem when you aren't open to reason, and when you put out stupid and ignorant remarks. The fact that you attack forumers and stoop to name calling tells me something about your character. I can say with complete confidence that LA is a much more healthy city than DC. I'm pretty sure many HONEST people who wouldn't disagree with this statement either. All DC really has going for it is the government. It has nice areas, but there are still many impoverish areas in the city that the government (USA) should be ashamed of.

^Fine, I'll shut up. But Chris, if you scroll down a bit you will see that this all started when Silverlake and ViceStupid Guy made insulting statements about Chicago. I was responding to them. Oh, and by the way, I don't believe in this concept called "trolling" that you guys all invented. This is a website for everybody--I can comment on cities that I don't live in as much as I want--so get over it. I happen to enjoy visiting this forum and I will continue to do so

[TICONLA1]

Ok i'll put an end to this rite now, LOS ANGELES: world class city. CHICAGO: world class skyscraper city. WASHINGTON D.C. who wants to drive to virginia to see a skyscraper?

[vicecityguy]

ViceStupid, good one! LOL my turn... Urban Poli-stupid... did I do good? ha!

[Suburbanite]

WASHINGTON D.C. who wants to drive to virginia to see a skyscraper?

:yes: 'tis true, 'tis true. Although the lack of skyscrapers has little to do with whether or not a city is truely a "world city".

[The Urban Politician]

Ok i'll put an end to this rite now, LOS ANGELES: world class city. CHICAGO: world class skyscraper city. WASHINGTON D.C. who wants to drive to virginia to see a skyscraper?

Wrong.

LA--world class suburb
Chicago--world class city
Washington DC--no skyscrapers, but great place to meet single young women! (oh, and BTW, we don't drive, we take the train. You guys have yet to experience that mode of thought in LA )

[TICONLA1]

Well, yes i agree, lack of skyscrapers does not have much to do with world class status. and i also agree in that our public tranportation system, (most notably the buses) are among the worst on the planet, tho our rail system is still young, it will be more effective in the coming years. look at it this way, new york city's first real growth spurt was in 1830, chicago 1880, los angeles 1946, its obvious that when the first two citys began to grow people were riding horses to work. as we all know by the time LA began to grow the car had allready been invented. in fact it's the main reason LA grew out to be the world class city (suburb) that it is today! and its decentralized growth was the end result. if money were easyer to come by, and we could get rid of all the damn NIMBY's we could "recentralize" this city much faster, if i had the money i'd allready be digging tunnels all over the place rite now!!!(see my post on LA must subway thread) trust me i know what's wrong with this city (as with many others) but in the end,......... only history can be our teacher!!!

[TICONLA1]

But i'd still rather pick up my date in my truck, rather than by train!!!!!!............................and with 200 watts and a tool CD the freeways don't bother me much eather!!!!

[The Urban Politician]

But i'd still rather pick up my date in my truck, rather than by train!!!!!!............................and with 200 watts and a tool CD the freeways don't bother me much eather!!!!

Ahhh, but the urban way of doing things is to take her out in a cab. If you pay the fare, it always makes you look classy (plus, parking is very difficult in Chicago--and expensive--THANK GOD!)

Trucks? Sounds more like Kentucky. The only disadvantage of not using a car is the lack of privacy

[Wilko]

Check out Melbourne Australia's Ozscraper section and have a look at Eureka tower! I know America has a lot of skyscrapers, but tell me how would you compare Melbounre Australia to say a city Like Los Angelas or maybe San Francisco of San Diego?

I can't wait to visit LA one day, it looks awsome but my only worry is the crime I hear on the world news at times! Please tell me is it as bad as they make out?

I want to know more about LA especially it's skyscrapers and the amount of sprawling suburbs & freeways you have! What is life like there? If you want to email me, my address is www.wilkswordy78@hotmail.com I would love to be able to share my passion of the city I live here in Melbounre Australia with yours. I own a few picture books of LA from when relatives visited LA and the US 3 years ago. I hope to hear from somebody soon. Cheers!

[TICONLA1]

You got a point with the cab thing, and yes parking is expensive in chicago! did i mention that i am a construction worker (i.e. new shiny truck) not old, parked near the barn dodge truck! (i must admit you got a laugh out of me with the kentucky line). .......................................oh the crime in los angeles, no more worse than any other urban area with 15 million people!!!!!!!! (i'm still alive, i think???)

[LosAngelesSportsFan]

I cannot believe all the sterotypes of LA. There is no doubt about it, LA is a World Class City. I guess people love to bash LA, its a national pasttime. Tell me, where else can you go snowboarding and surfing in the same day? The natural setting in LA is the most unique setting on earth i my opinion. LA is sprawled out and now the trend is for infill development. There are currently 4 billion dollars of Transit Oriented developments in Los Angeles, from Downtown to Hollywood to the Valley to Pasadena and to Long Beach. The rail system is expanding and ridership is at an all time high, second only to NY in daily boardings. The gold line is being extended to the eastside, the expo line from LA to Santa Monica was just funded and will begin construction shortly, the city council just approved extending the red line down wilshire, the green line is soon to be extended to LAX and beyond, and the gold line will be extended about 15 miles all the way to glendora and beyond. Downtown LA is being developed at an amazing rate, with the disney hall, staples center, the cathedral all being built in the last five years, over 10,000 housing units under construction and built in the last five years and thousands more being planned, 40 - 50 towers of 15 - 70 stories are under construction or planned, Hollywood has major developments being built on Hollywood and Sunset, and the city as a whole is becoming more transit oriented. Things are changing for the better and in a few years, the LA of old (car dependant, pollution and crime) will all be falacies. The crime rate is dramatically down compared to the 90's, houston just passed LA this year for the Air pollution Title and as stated above Rail is a real and growing option for LA. There is a reason 4 million plus live in the city limits as well as 18 million plus in the metro area. If LA was its own country it would be the 13th largest economy int he World. Also, the LA/Long Beach port complex is by far the busiest in the nation, and the third busiest in the world. Something like 65% of all items imported into the US goes through LA. LA has more Cultural attractions than any other city in the world and the fashion district is the largest in the country, second largest in the world. The influence of the Movie industry cannot be understated as it shapes the minds of people (+ or -). Also, it is true that LA doesnt have HQ's but LA's economy is now built on small businesses and as stated has significant world power with it being the 13th largest economy. Many world class institutions also call LA home, from USC, UCLA, Pepperdine, CalTech to Otis and many others.

Sorry for this one large paragraph, but it pisses me off that people diss LA and fail to recognize that LA has many many positives and it seems as though everyone likes to concentrate on the negative. LA is definitley world class and i love it. I will never move from here, cause everything i ever need is here.

[The Urban Politician]

The rail system is expanding and ridership is at an all time high, second only to NY in daily boardings.

^the moment I came across this I stopped reading the rest of that statement.

Seriously, are you on crack?

[The Urban Politician]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. To this day I still have no idea what this guy is saying. I think I'm going to need an expert to decipher this message left a long time ago in this thread. Any interpretations? Here it is:


to L.A. asi has been always considered him (world-wide class) is the city with
the metropolitan zone but extensive of the world and third but
important of EU I believe that the subject does not come to the case
that all know it

[LosAngelesSportsFan]

^the moment I came across this I stopped reading the rest of that statement.

Seriously, are you on crack?


I might be wrong, but im pretty sure i read about it recently.

[The Urban Politician]

^Sorry, but that is far from true. Transit ridership in LA is far behind several east coast cities, as well as Chicago, which easily snabs the #2 spot. I would like to see those stats. Surely Washington DC, Boston, and even San Francisco have higher daily transit ridership than LA

[LosAngelesSportsFan]

^ well the best i could do on a quick search is provide you with the MTA figures, pretty impressive.
Metro Rail

Statistics Metro Blue Line Metro Green Line Metro Red Line Metro Gold Line
Opened 1990 1995 Union Station 1993
Wilshire /Western 1996
Hollywood 1999
North Hollywood 2000 July 26, 2003
Average Weekday Boardings 68,497 27,817 110,685 13,514
Average Saturday Boardings 51,509 18,820 74,599 11,252
Average Sunday Boardings 41,825 14,877 61,368 8,533
Total Annual Boarding FY2004 20.5 million* 8.17 million* 30.8 million* 4.14 million*
* Preliminary figures
Length of Route in Miles 22 20 17.4* 13.7
Number of Stations 22 14 16 13
Number of Rail Cars in Fleet 69 34 104
Cost of System $877 million $718 million $4.5 billion**

*Includes the Yards & Shops Maintenance area
**Union Station to North Hollywood
Total Metro Rail System
Average Weekday Boardings 220,513
Average Saturday Boardings 156,180
Average Sunday Boardings 126,603
Miles in Service 73.1


http://www.metro.net/press/pressroom/facts.htm

[LosAngelesSportsFan]

sorry that last posting didnt come out right, just click the link and it will take you to the page.

[The Urban Politician]

^that ridership is actually quite impressive. That changes my perception of the LA transit system. However, it is far, far from #2 in the nation-- that goes to metro Chicago. For example, in metro Chicago the CTA gives 1.5 million rides per weekday, and that DOES NOT include Metra, a system serving the city and suburbs that provides hundreds of thousands of additional daily rides.

And I am sure some other cities come after that before LA. Either way, transit ridership in LA is more impressive than I thought :)

[LosAngelesSportsFan]

^ well, the LA numbers dont include metrolink that serves the whole metro area, which is quite significant. You can learn more about LA rail and the transit coalition at Friends4rail.org. they are a grass roots org that fights for rail in LA and they are responsible for the new expo line from downtown to Santa Monica. There are many people who depend on rail and choose to take rail in LA and as the system keeps on expanding, more and more people realize that rail is the way to go to solve our traffic and pollution problems. The Red line numbers grow every month and its Standing room only on most trains during rush hour.

If i find any new numbers on daily boarding rankings ill be sure to post

[ChrisLA]

LosAngelesSportsFan, trust me I posted information about LA transit before. Believe me its not worth wasting your time on this juvenile crap. Many of them like to live under false pretense, it don't seem to matter. You can try and provide truthful information to educate, but in turn they will still bash LA no matter what you prove to them. I've put lot of time into showing off photos of different LA neighborhoods. I show it all, urban, suburban, ghettos, and the upscale. I present the city as it is, and many of them surely prove that LA isn't this big suburb of a city. Yet not a one of them, either don't comment or refuse to view anything positive about LA.

So really don't waste your time with most of this garbage (not the people but the ignorant comments) around here. Surely I welcome you, but I would suggest you spend most of your time over at SSP like I do. That is the forum where we get more respect. There is much more respect for LA forumers and less child's play than here.

I really wish the MODS handle this, beause it has really gone overboard. Believe it or not I can take a joke and have fun, but this has got to stop, MOD's don't you agree. It the MOD's want LA forumers to stay active here, somethings got to change.

Oh btw LA does the largest fleet of buses after NYC. In boardings, from what I've read its only 3rd after Chicago. Also this does not include the many other agencies that carry many passengers. The MTA is just the largest of them all and boarding are around 1.2 million per day.

[LosAngelesSportsFan]

Chris, i pretty much agree. I just cant stand it when people bash and refuse to let old sterotypes go. Oh well, ills ee you over at SSP, cause thats where i post most my stuff. People over there actually care about LA and want to improve the shortcomings of our city. You have the same handle over there right?

[ChrisLA]

You have the same handle over there right?

Yes!

I'm the same handle on both sites.

[SILVERLAKE]

One way that I know LA is world class and definately the only other world class american city after NY is that I was listening to a talkshow about the LA art scene and all the only other city that was ever mentioned as a comparison to LA was NY and LOndon. Never once did they mention chicago. That is the difference between LA and CHicago is that LA never thinks about CHicago in the slightest. But i bet CHicago thinks of LA all the time in terms of of course entertainment and media, but also in terms of art and fashion and architecture and economics and all that kind of stuff. Even if chicaog has more famous skyscrapers than LA, we only think of ourselves as in the same group as NY, LONDON and paris and rome and other cities like that, tokyo etc..,.

[Dampyre]

One way that I know LA is world class and definately the only other world class american city after NY is that I was listening to a talkshow about the LA art scene and all the only other city that was ever mentioned as a comparison to LA was NY and LOndon. Never once did they mention chicago. That is the difference between LA and CHicago is that LA never thinks about CHicago in the slightest. But i bet CHicago thinks of LA all the time in terms of of course entertainment and media, but also in terms of art and fashion and architecture and economics and all that kind of stuff. Even if chicaog has more famous skyscrapers than LA, we only think of ourselves as in the same group as NY, LONDON and paris and rome and other cities like that, tokyo etc..,.


:rofl:

[Jules]

One way that I know LA is world class and definately the only other world class american city after NY is that I was listening to a talkshow about the LA art scene and all the only other city that was ever mentioned as a comparison to LA was NY and LOndon. Never once did they mention chicago. That is the difference between LA and CHicago is that LA never thinks about CHicago in the slightest. But i bet CHicago thinks of LA all the time in terms of of course entertainment and media, but also in terms of art and fashion and architecture and economics and all that kind of stuff. Even if chicaog has more famous skyscrapers than LA, we only think of ourselves as in the same group as NY, LONDON and paris and rome and other cities like that, tokyo etc..,.

Just about all of that is complete untrue nonsense, but what struck me the most was this.

but also in terms of art and fashion and architecture and economics

Chicago looking to LA in terms of architecture! You must be INSANE! World class cities like New York, Tokyo, Paris, and oh so many others look to Chicago in terms of architecture. Chicago is an architectural god and LA is puny and inferior when compared. Economics, that's nonsense as well but seriously, LA topping Chicago in architecture! :rofl:

[Jules]

And LA certainly is not in the same class with London, New York, Tokyo, Rome, and Paris. You think way to highly of LA. LA doesn't compare to any one of those cities.

[SILVERLAKE]

And LA certainly is not in the same class with London, New York, Tokyo, Rome, and Paris. You think way to highly of LA. LA doesn't compare to any one of those cities.

I'm just saying that LA only regards NY as a rival and never thinks about Chicaog at all. Why I'm sure LA celebrates Gehry and talks about LA artists like JEff KOOns. ANd of course Chicagoans must follow the fashion trends of LA and hollywood. THe whole world talks about is going on in LA.

Absolutely people in tokyon london and rome think LA is world calss/

[The Urban Politician]

I'm just saying that LA only regards NY as a rival and never thinks about Chicaog at all. Why I'm sure LA celebrates Gehry and talks about LA artists like JEff KOOns. ANd of course Chicagoans must follow the fashion trends of LA and hollywood. THe whole world talks about is going on in LA.

Absolutely people in tokyon london and rome think LA is world calss/

NYC as a rival? That's cute--LA is practically owned by NYC corporations and they want to consider themselves some sort of rival--that cracks me up. BTW, I have never seen LA placed among the likes of Tokyo and Paris. LA is not a real, cohesive city like those. Oh, and Chicagoans actually follow fashion trends in NYC. Hate to break it to you, Silverlake, but Chicagoans only take NYC seriously. LA will always be a joke to them. Arts and culture scene? Your museums have no serious acclaim among any group and you know it--nothing you have comes within a mile of the Art Institute of Chicago, the Field Museum, or the Museum of Science and industry (3 of the several top-ranked museums in Chicago). That will never change, Silverlake, because LA has no sense of history--they're too convinced of their coolness to have any regard for that. Even NYC doesn't make that mistake.

I have proof. I just visited a European forum and asked their opinion--when they think of LA, they think of Hollywood and actors. That's it. That's the only reason LA is recognized around the world. NO mention of finance, culture, or architecture. I visited your CityLights--it was pathetic--that's your guys idea of a great attraction? In Chicago something like that would have gotten tossed into Lake Michigan :lol:

And that will never change. You see, Civic Pride is considered stupid and cheesy in LA. LA is all about the individual, thus the auto-orientation and oversuburbanization. In Chicago and NYC, corporations donate millions to improve their city. In LA that is not the case because, well, just look at the friggin place. It's damn ugly! (other than weather, palm trees, and some of the older bungaloes)

The verdict? I'm not from Chicago or LA, but Chicago is a MUCH greater city and, I think we all agree, has much more financial importance than the home of DisneyLand. So go ride your toyish trains around LA and think you're experiencing real transit and city life, but you're just playing make believe :)

[The Urban Politician]

I was looking through "City Discussions" on SSP, and this person said that L.A. isn't considered to be a "World Class City"? Do you think he is correct. This is his post which is featured on SSP.
Pricemazda: "Im sorry to all those Los Angelinos out there or LA sympathisers but outside of America LA isn't really considered a 'world city'."

This is the very first post of this thread. I think it says it all..

Interestingly, I still think LA is a World Class Suburb...but Silverlake's annoying closed-mindedness (and the fact that it's so easy to rebut his wimpy attacks against Chicago) make it all too easy and fun for me to continue to trample on this forum :runaway:

[Suburbanite]

[QUOTE=In Chicago and NYC, corporations donate millions to improve their city. In LA that is not the case because, well, just look at the friggin place. It's damn ugly! (other than weather, palm trees, and some of the older bungaloes)[/QUOTE]

I will be one of the first to agree that LA is not the best city in the nation as far as architecture, arts, and culture (not including popular culture). However, what you said about LA being "damn ugly" is just not true. Sure, LA may have some gritty and undesireable parts just like any city including Chicago, but there are some truely beautiful parts of LA as well. It may not be the prettiest city but it certainly doesn't deserve this kind of slander. You should not let your passionate opinions get in the way of the facts.

[steel]

Just about all of that is complete untrue nonsense, but what struck me the most was this.



Chicago looking to LA in terms of architecture! You must be INSANE! World class cities like New York, Tokyo, Paris, and oh so many others look to Chicago in terms of architecture. Chicago is an architectural god and LA is puny and inferior when compared. Economics, that's nonsense as well but seriously, LA topping Chicago in architecture! :rofl:

Uhmm this is not quite true. There is a little park with a major band shell in the middle of it designed by Frank G of you guessed it LA. Chicago has not been a leader in architecture since Mies kicked the bucket. There are some rumblings of new talent but Chicago is not leading the world to the architectural holy grail at this point in time.

[Suburbanite]

Uhmm this is not quite true. There is a little park with a major band shell in the middle of it designed by Frank G of you guessed it LA. Chicago has not been a leader in architecture since Mies kicked the bucket. There are some rumblings of new talent but Chicago is not leading the world to the architectural holy grail at this point in time.

That is very true, but I think Michigan Ave. was referring to the long and glorious history of architectural achievement in Chicago. LA may have some of the best current talent but it can't stand up to Chicago's collective architectural history.

[SILVERLAKE]

This is the very first post of this thread. I think it says it all..

Interestingly, I still think LA is a World Class Suburb...but Silverlake's annoying closed-mindedness (and the fact that it's so easy to rebut his wimpy attacks against Chicago) make it all too easy and fun for me to continue to trample on this forum :runaway:


A suburb of what! We live in a city of 4,000,000, 3,000,000 of which ilve in about the same area as chiciago!. How many suburbs have 1000+ foot tall buildings and multiple world/national class institutions of education and culture.

[The Urban Politician]

That is very true, but I think Michigan Ave. was referring to the long and glorious history of architectural achievement in Chicago. LA may have some of the best current talent but it can't stand up to Chicago's collective architectural history.

^Chicago is slowly making a comeback. Part of what cost Chicago its architectural crown is suburbanization and shift of investment away from its core, which is partly why metros like LA have prospered so much. However, we are all fully aware of the new trends and Chicago's growing demand for innovative architecture, and it shows. The billions of dollars spent yearly based entirely on faith in the booming downtown Chicago market alone portends to what is unfolding before our very eyes.

For example, Donald Trump just secured funding for his new Trump Tower, financing that is considered one of the largest construction loans for a residential tower in US history. This is Trump's second major namesake tower, something he could have built in any downtown (including Manhattan again), and he chose Chicago

[TICONLA1]

So i ask again for the 3rd time. what does a city have to HAVE to be considered "world class"? I've asked this question over 50 posts ago and no one has even tried to answer it, instead a bunch of meaningless comparisons, (not to mention a loss of opinions, to other forums.) stick to the point people, i'm trying to learn somthing here, i allready know how to argue, its stupid and pointless which is why i don't do it, or am i just talking to children here.???

[vicecityguy]

I have proof. I just visited a European forum and asked their opinion--when they think of LA, they think of Hollywood and actors. That's it. That's the only reason LA is recognized around the world. NO mention of finance, culture, or architecture. I visited your CityLights--it was pathetic--that's your guys idea of a great attraction? In Chicago something like that would have gotten tossed into Lake Michigan :lol:

Well with proof like that you must be right... :weirdo:

[Wilko]

Whats wrong with LA. No pictures and little posts!!!!!!!