Posted by urbandreamer on UT.

From http://app.toronto.ca/DevelopmentApplications/searchPlanningApp.do

OPA / Rezoning 10 197695 STE 20 OZ 401-409 KING ST W Jun 16, 2010 --- --- Ward-20
South-District --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
Standard rezoning application for construction of new mixed use building containing commercial on ground and second floor with residential above - 442 residnetial suites - 311 Parking spaces below grade - 5 levels below grade parking - 39 storey building. Lands are 401-415 King West Inclusive


401 King West is the Shoeless Joe's site--415 King West is the LCBO site.

Will post more info when available.

From Dec 11, 2010 by Jasonzed

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii108/jasonzedd/Mississauga4/20101211188.jpg

401 is Stix n Stones, I don't think it ever opened. If the design doesn't look amazing I hope it's rejected. A rather large facadomy is going to happen here.

Wait are they getting rid of my LCBO?! I'm not cool with this...

EDIT: Misread. Still, it was a close call.

Soon they will be down to a handful of LCBO's to service 2 million people. Therefore we have to jump in our cars to drive to a monopoly to buy booze at whatever price they decide to charge us, and then stand in line for an hour for the honour. More "cost efficient" to waste our time and energy, I suppose.

Soon they will be down to a handful of LCBO's to service 2 million people. Therefore we have to jump in our cars to drive to a monopoly to buy booze at whatever price they decide to charge us, and then stand in line for an hour for the honour. More "cost efficient" to waste our time and energy, I suppose.

This one is only two blocks from me, the next is Queen's Quay. I don't even want to talk about what its like to get to the Beer Store. The thing is they could totally open up another LCBO or Beer Store in Toronto and they would 100% do well.

On the topic of this site, do we know of the architect yet?

That LCBO is not part of it. Though that LCBO is also just a temp building, it's not much more then a portable covered in nice bricks. I think one day they will move into a larger location in the area. When I was living in Little Italy I was alwasy blown away that college street, possibly one of the best foodie destinations in the city didn't have it's own LCBO. I had to go to the Dundas ghetto store, or the Bloor equally ghetto store.

Yeah, they like to "maximize profits" by inconveniencing the public. Bizarrely, most of the public seem to fervently defend the LCBO and other Canadian government liquor monopolies as being some worthwhile part of our culture that needs to be fostered and defending. Scrap the beast, I say.

Its much easier just popping into a Tesco's to get alcohol. Prices are a little lower with the LCBO, I'd pay extra for convenience though.

Weirdly, Britain treats pornography the same way Canada treats alcohol. There are a relatively small amount of legal "sex shops" finally permitted in Britain, and the licensing for them is STRICTLY controlled and limited, but you can buy a bottle of gin at any corner shop that you pop into (granted they are all licenced, too, but it is easy to get the licence). Here you can buy pornography at any vendor that wants to sell it, but every single bottle of gin in Canada has been originally purchased by a government monopoly, for resale (Alberta included, as they simply sell the alcohol to a private retail outlet). I guess every country has its own collective national hang-ups. :dunno:

I wonder what hang up the Netherlands has. They seem to permit practically everything.

I wonder what hang up the Netherlands has. They seem to permit practically everything.

It's still all about licensing there.

I like Quebec's SAQ selling strong alcohol, but beer can be purchased at the corner store, and thus past 11PM.

It's still all about licensing there.

I like Quebec's SAQ selling strong alcohol, but beer can be purchased at the corner store, and thus past 11PM.

And at gas stations which I think is like selling smokes at a drugstore.

And at gas stations which I think is like selling smokes at a drugstore.

Haha true :lol: Gotta admit it's convenient...

Haha true :lol: Gotta admit it's convenient...

4 winters ago I was snowmobiling up in Rouyn Noranda (never go what a dump) it was getting late around midnight and we realized we only had a few beers left back at our cabin. We stopped for gas in the middle of nowhere and my buddy came out of the station with a huge grin saying "We've got beer boys". We bought two 24's and one of those metal disc toboggans and towed the beer back for 27km. We had to wait about 15 minutes until we could open them, they we're slightly explossive at that point.

It's still all about licensing there.

I like Quebec's SAQ selling strong alcohol, but beer can be purchased at the corner store, and thus past 11PM.

No, all off-sale beer vendors in Quebec must by law lock the fridges at 11pm. Interestingly, LCBO took the first step in opening all outlets for Sunday alcohol sales,
and SAQ followed suit later in the year so as not to lose competitiveness.

So is this going to be demolished? :(

http://www.tobuilt.ca/php/Buildingimages/WarwickBros.jpg


A heritage property, by the way...

^^ No. No more demolition scares, please. First the Canada Tower/Graphic Arts Building, now this. Nothing's being demolished here, or there, except a forgettable 2-3 storey building right at the corner of King and Spadina.

I wonder what hang up the Netherlands has. They seem to permit practically everything.


Hey, I lived there for many years, until 2.5 years ago. There is a general reversal of easy-goingness and do-what-you wantism.
The red light district in Amsterdam is slowly and gradually being scaled down. Coffee shops are slowly closing down or being restricted, especially near the German and Belgian borders. There are more drug patrols on highways - I myself had been stopped a couple of times in 2007 - 2008 when driving in eastern part of Holland and in Germany close to the Dutch border (that never happened before) - in search for drugs.
After many years of increasing criminality surrounding coffee shops and prostitution, the society was ready to throw in the towel and pull back. In general view, the experiment did not work and almost normalised what people in general do not consider normal or desirable. Naturally some people protest but there is a general acceptance in the Dutch society that the opening went too far and it brought a social deformation and ugly criminality to the formerly peaceful place. I see a similar thing happening to Sydney, where Kings Cross is being watered down and mellowed down. I am waiting to see if these attitudes are here to stay - of if this is just another chapter.



Regarding the building project in question - I would really like to see it built. Good location - just love lower Spadina.

^^ When were you in Toronto?

looks like site prepping. Dunno what their doing to that building with all that scaffolding though.

http://maps.google.ca/maps?q=409+King+St+W,+Toronto,+Toronto+Division,+Ontario+M5V+1K1&ie=UTF8&hl=en&geocode=FWH5mQIdsolE-w&split=0&sll=49.891235,-97.15369&sspn=16.71875,56.536561&hq=&hnear=409+King+St+W,+Toronto,+Toronto+Division,+Ontario+M5V+1K1&ll=43.645471,-79.394875&spn=0.000232,0.001206&t=h&z=20&layer=c&cbll=43.645471,-79.394875&panoid=wTFsvoGMs57LaTttQlQhkg&cbp=12,106.65,,0,-2.31

looks like site prepping. Dunno what their doing to that building with all that scaffolding though.

http://maps.google.ca/maps?q=409+King+St+W,+Toronto,+Toronto+Division,+Ontario+M5V+1K1&ie=UTF8&hl=en&geocode=FWH5mQIdsolE-w&split=0&sll=49.891235,-97.15369&sspn=16.71875,56.536561&hq=&hnear=409+King+St+W,+Toronto,+Toronto+Division,+Ontario+M5V+1K1&ll=43.645471,-79.394875&spn=0.000232,0.001206&t=h&z=20&layer=c&cbll=43.645471,-79.394875&panoid=wTFsvoGMs57LaTttQlQhkg&cbp=12,106.65,,0,-2.31


That is a very old streetview.

Yeah, there's an LCBO on that lot now.

hmm alright well ignore that post. Looked like something was going on.

^^ When were you in Toronto?


1. I visit every year, last time a year ago.

2. Lived in Toronto for 10 years before moving to Europe. Went to UofT - great memories, man!!!


Just love the way Toronto is developing now. The 90s were so slooooow - nothing was happening... Planning my next visit in April. Just cannot wait to see all the stuff in person: 4 Seasons, Aura, Trump, Shangri-La, Ice, L - to mention just the tallest ones.

Lower Spadina is really cool, sort of in-between, touch of: Downtown, Entertainment, SkyDomish, Chinese, Fashion, almost Harbourfrontish, Fort Yorkish, touch of class, touch of trash. An amazing combo.


Congratulations guys!! So envious am I. Sydney is great (the weather, beaches, v relaxed feel in gnrl) and has a good vibe but not dynamic construction wise. And really badly planned.

Curse you and your glorious beaches Mr. Polo :lol:

Core Architects

Elevations at the end of the report


STAFF REPORT - 401, 407-409 and 415 King Street West - Zoning
Amendment Application - Preliminary Report

Proposal

The applicant proposes the development of a 39-storey mixed-use building (126.5 metres,
excluding mechanical) containing 443 residential units. The building will be composed
of an eight-storey base building which steps up to eleven storeys at the Spadina Avenue
frontage. The base building floor plates are between approximately 1,850 square metres
and 1,660 square metres up to the 8th storey (30 metres in height) and between 1,090
square metres and 1,050 square metres up to the 11th storey (41 metres in height).

The proposed base building would incorporate the four to six- storey façade of the heritage
building on the eastern portion of the property. The 31- storey tower has a floor plate of
approximately 680 square metres. The mechanical elements of the building would add
another 5 metres in height for an overall height of 131.5 metres.

http://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2011/te/bgrd/backgroundfile-35427.pdf

What a dull design.:ohno:

Can't really tell much by the orthographics. I really thing the cladding and podium materials will make it or break it. It's certainly nothing spectacularly ground breaking though.

Looks like standard circa 2008-2010 but the added density and contribution to urban street wall is a plus and definitely an improvement over the current one 1 storey Liqbo.


http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4075/5436317794_cdb3129568_o.jpg

Looks like standard circa 2008-2010...

yes, The Slab has become the 'trendy-go-to' in Toronto condo design. Is it too soon or am i being too pessimistic to call this déjà-vu aesthetic kitch?
renders are tiring just to look at, evaluate, critique... Ok, this particular entry: painfully average.

Liking the colour scheme on this one, and what appears to be rooftop gardens. Not so thrilled with how it addresses the warehouses on the east side though.

Globe article:

Developer Plans 39-Storey Condo Tower at King and Spadina


ANNA MEHLER PAPERNY AND STEVE LADURANTAYE
From Tuesday's Globe and Mail
Published Tuesday, Feb. 15, 2011 3:00AM EST
Last updated Tuesday, Feb. 15, 2011 10:21AM EST


Developers who drew municipal ire for plunking a sprawling, single-storey liquor store on a prime downtown corner are making amends by making it taller.

Way taller.

Nascent plans for a series of properties surrounding the LCBO outlet on the corner of King Street and Spadina Avenue would turn what’s now a suburban-style store into a 39-storey, 443-unit condo tower that would incorporate a brick heritage building and feature futuristic, solar-energy-harnessing windows and a green roof.

Architect Babak Eslahjou calls it a unique take on “one of the most prominent corners of the city.”

It wouldn’t be finished for at least a decade, but while local councillor Adam Vaughan welcomes the increased density, he said there is no way the building would be allowed to reach that towering height.

“We’ve got a building there that’s too short. They’re coming in with a building that’s just a bit too tall.”

Mr. Vaughan would like to see the developers shave at least 50 metres off the proposed height – and throw in some community benefits like supportive housing or family-centred units to make it worth the neighbourhood’s while. Community council is expected to schedule public consultations on the project Wednesday.

When the LCBO first set up shop in late 2009, the building was a low-rise anomaly in a growing forest of glassy high-rises in the city’s western downtown.

“You could take that building, airlift it and drop it in a mall anywhere in Ontario,” Mr. Vaughan said. “For a government that wants to intensify on transit routes, when we asked them to build a second floor they said, ‘Sorry, no deal.’ ”

But LCBO spokesman Chris Layton said the store was a stopgap solution: Cabo Three Investments, the property’s owners, weren’t ready to build up. And at the time, he said, there was pent-up demand for a liquor store in the area, whose dense population skews young and affluent and is projected to grow by 10.7 per cent over five years.

“The LCBO has a format that it’s found to be very successful and that customers have indicated to us they really like,” he said. “We try to provide one-stop shopping.”

The numbers would seem to bear out that argument: In the first year, Mr. Layton said, projected sales were about $6-million; sales actually topped $12.5-million.

“People were literally lined up. The community wanted service.”

Mr. Layton said the LCBO’s lease goes until at least 2019, which is when developers plan to start on the new building, but the liquor store would be interested in taking part in new retail space that’s supposed to make up the first two storeys.

Mr. Eslahjou, for his part, is excited. The building’s designers are also hoping Ontario’s feed-in tariff program, which pays both residential and commercial consumers to produce low-emission energy, is still around in a decade: The plan is to have windows that harness solar energy using thin-film technology that’s still in the works.

“We know this tech is coming online quite strong now; we don’t have to build the building for another nine years,” Mr. Eslahjou said, “so by then we’ll have a good handle on it.

“There’s some conversation, obviously, about the height. As there always is.”

But Mark Siegel, vice-president of planning and development for Terracap, property manager for Cabo Three Investments, said the company fully expects to get its 39 storeys, which he noted is “tall, but not that tall.”

By the time the tower's slated for completion 10 years from now, he hopes, the area will be a "fairly well established condo neighbourhood," and demand will be for larger, more flexible units not unlike the family-centric suites Mr. Vaughan is pushing.

“Of course we would have loved to do something larger than that, but that’s probably not realistic,” Mr. Siegel said. “I think it would look absolutely amazing to have something significant at that corner. ... You don’t get too many corners like that.”

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/toronto/developer-plans-39-storey-condo-tower-at-king-and-spadina/article1907293/?cmpid=rss1

2019 start date, oh my.

“The LCBO has a format that it’s found to be very successful

Yeah, its called stranglehold monopoly. Surprisingly successful.

Yeah, its called stranglehold monopoly. Surprisingly successful.

:lol:

Here's a small rendering from the architect's website (Core), showing how the development will encompass the heritage property. If the developer does indeed hold back this project until 2019, then I'd expect this (circa 2008-2010) design to go back to the drawing boards before it gets released on the market.

http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/5980/kingwestlcbodev.jpg

If the developer does indeed hold back this project until 2019, then I'd expect this (circa 2008-2010) design to go back to the drawing boards before it gets released on the market.



Agreed, otherwise it will wind up looking as dated as that tall faux twisty tower that is finally going up in London about 250 years after it was first designed, and looks passé already.

415 King Street West, Toronto


New rendering from BlackTowerTV (https://twitter.com/#!/BlacktowerTV):


http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7177/6837539616_e4b726747d_z.jpg

At first glance, I'm tempted to say "Dog's Breakfast". Why the mishmash of designs with no continuity between the two towers?

I prefer this over the original design.

I do too, but wasn't there a 3rd design that came out about 6 months ago that was better than both of these? :weird:

I think we've only had the two. The more I look at the new design the more I really like it. We'll be getting two very different thinner towers over one big clunky one. The first design was very suburban looking.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4075/5436317794_cdb3129568_o.jpg
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7177/6837539616_e4b726747d_z.jpg

A better render from buzzbuzzhome.com
http://imagecontent.buzzbuzzhome.com/imageSponsors/Original/2012_03_15_11_53_18_401kingstreet1.jpg

I am confused....Are they gonna build over the LCBO building?

Or demolish the existing LCBO, build this condo and then re-open the LBCO on the ground floor?

Demolish it and put a new one in the base.