taking example from Gatises brilliant thread about Riga development I and some other estonian forumers, decided to make this thread, ofcourse the creation was also boosted by the fact we totally destroyed Jaceks Tallin(1n?!) thread :P

dont mind me not putting capital T in Tallinn, ok?

first off i am going to start with the most obvious stuff, these are the things that put the TALL into Tallinn.

starting off with the existing ones

103m, 25floors - Radisson SAS 1999-2001
Theres a cafe on the 24th floor...feel free to visit it, spectacular views of tallinn can be seen!(as soon as i get camera i will make some pics from there)
and to the left the Estonian Union bank - 94.5m and 24 floors, 1997-1999
The estonian union bank building is the first high rise built in tallinn since Soviet times, and it has turned into a landmark building for tallinn.
http://www2.mbp.ee/~ke/reisid/tallinnravala.jpg

then theres the Hotell Olümpia... built for the Moscow olympic games
1974-1980, height 84m, 27 floors
http://www.hot.ee/tornid/eng/built/hotel_olympia/photos/hotel_olympia.jpg
Then another Soviet time scraper, Hotell Viru
74m, 23 floors, 1966-1972
http://www.sokoshotels.fi/content_images/Viru%20yleis.jpg

aaah... city plaza... my personal favorite!
78m, 23 floors
http://www.hot.ee/tornid/eng/built/city_plaza/photos/p3.jpg

now there's the underrated, and unknown high rise of tallinn Maakri maja.. which actually is VERY CLOSE to other high rises, its the talles residential high-rise in tallinn
71.5m and 20 floors
http://www.maakrimaja.ee/est/keskkond/11.jpg
there are several More high rises in tallinns downtown, but i dont have much stats nor pics of them.. Raincheck, ok? :cheers:

then there is the U/C tornimäe twin towers.
http://www.hot.ee/skyscrapers/tallinn/muu/2.jpg
the first tower, the 30 storey one will be 112 meters, it will be residential, the other will be 28 floors and will be a 5-star hotel!
/\ behind the construction site is the Postimehe(daily newspaper) maja 13 floors

then there is the euroxi maja.. completed 2002, it has 13 floors
http://www.eestiehitus.ee/graphics/references/36.jpg

and then there are plans to build high rises in the same area! :
a 35 storey residential building
a 24 storey office/residential
a 30 storey office building
a 19 storey office


ok... enough about the high rise...theres time for them later...
some future to be projects in tallinn.
Building company Merko is selling a plot in tallinn centre
http://www.merko.ee/dump.php?id=174 the empty void u see will hopefully in the near future be a building for offices, hotel or whatever :), the maximum amount of storeys on that plot is 7-8..

merko will build a 9 storey building downtown too.
http://www.merko.ee/dump.php?id=330

residential:

building near downtown 8 storeys
http://www.merko.ee/ravala/images/galerii/01.jpg

7 storey building
http://www.merko.ee/uus-tatari/images/gal/1.jpg

5 storey building
http://www.merko.ee/parnu-mnt/img/galerii/2.jpg

7 storey building
http://www.city24.ee/MEDIA/PICTURE/PICTURE_574667.jpeg

ok lets get to good stuff again..

Osten Tor 15 storey residential building
http://www.hot.ee/ch1le/ostentor
and the magnificent view from the 15th floor
http://www.hot.ee/ch1le/vaade
/\from the view you can see that i have some high-rises to cover aswell.. but ill do them later...

ofcourse theres more... but lets see what we can do tomorrow! ok?
some pics are Juno're's hope he wont kill me :)

:applause::applause:
and many thanks!:)
I'll try to do smth tomorrow...., have to leave soon coz I have to wake up at 7 :tongue3:

Tallinnal on huvitavad projektid, soovin, et koik sellest oliks taitsnud, aga Tallinn on nuud vaga ilus ka, soovin kulatada kunagi :yes: (vabandust, et minu eesti keel on murdunud ;))

hmm :) how long have you been studying estonian... its a hard language, isnt it? In my opinion your estonian is humm, ok :speech:.

hmm :) how long have you been studying estonian... its a hard language, isnt it? In my opinion your estonian is humm, ok :speech:.
8 months, but it's almost 2 months that I didn't learn and speak estonian, so no wonder that I forgot some that I learned before ;) However, eesti keel ei ole raske, aga on raske raakida ja saada aru, sest et eestalsed raakivad vaga kiire (kain juttu 1. Mail koos paar eestlased :))

oh it would ba a good idea to "stick" this thread (always on top) and do the same thing for riga development thread, it would also be a good thing to unstick some threads wich have been inactive for some time.

about the thread itself, don't know what to say... erm... cool projects...and i really mean it :)

How to make "sticky thread"?
Btw. congrats with opening this thread! Waiting for any news, including road construction, public transportation, ferries etc.

good news!
http://www.city24.ee/MEDIA/PICTURE/PICTURE_261461.jpeg
this, ugly, half empty building is going to be totally changed!
The architects are Vilen Künnapuu & Ain Padrik, they have also designed other buildings in Tallinn, for example radisson SAS, and theyr other projects a 35 storey building may also be built in the near future.

the building of which i talked above will look like this
http://www.epl.ee/g/pics/picpMEeJX.jpg
At first there were some doubs, because the building seemed to vanglorious!
but now the city's architecturalboard has approved the plan.

On the construction site of the twin towers, in tornimäe, archaeologists have uncovered over 1200 skeletons. Also partial sections of the foundation of st. John's church, and foundation segments from the clocktower. It was once a complex of a chapel, 3 altars, and a church. These finds will be taken to research, and later to the Jaan-Seegi museum, whats just next to the site.

Decreases boxyness somehow. In fact - Tallinn downtown is getting its own style. Rather minimalistic, with much glass, corners. Nordic.

Commieblocks under renovation

Many commieblocks are starting to look better all around tallinn!
http://www.cityariteenused.ee/photo/S2400016s.jpg
http://www.cityariteenused.ee/photo/Imag0244s.jpg
http://www.cityariteenused.ee/photo/Imag0220s.jpg

they not only make the house look much better, but they also reduce heating cost, since the material acts as insolation!

Those commie-blocks should be demolished but ofcourse it's better to renovate them instead of just leaving them as it is.

suurepärane töö, Martin ja Rene! seda threadi oli vaja, nüüd saab tutvustada ka mitte niiväga tähtsaid plaane Tallinnas. ma loodan et saan ise ka kaasa aidata kui interneti omal korda saan..... :colgate:





by the way, what do you think of the Narva mnt.7 new design? in my opinion the 3 towers look kinda weird and not that appropriate in the Tallinn center... but on the other hand, i'm glad that an important building will get a new look! ( :

hmm.. my opinion on them spires, i quite like them, as Gatis sayd it decreases boxyness, and the spires remind the tourists and locals alike that Tallinn, is now, like in the past, city of towers!

300th post! :D
Edd, actually.. those commieblocks dont have a big impact on tallinn's look... since between the commieblock districts(Õismäe, Lasnamäe, and Mustamäe) there are large spaces of green... so visitors dont even know the existance of those places...! :)

Narva mnt 7 new planned look seems fascinating! IMHO three towers are very good idea. Can't believe that the city board almost killed the project. :bash: Some people just don't like anything new.

oh! a new voice from the depths of Tallinn has echoed into the forum!

tere Enoch!

http://www.solness.ee/static/body/151.1.image.jpg

Private City. Chances for Public Space in Tallinn 11.07.2003

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Triin Ojari

The topic of architecture – even urban planning has recently become a hot problem at least in Tallinn. Intellectuals, common citizens and after them journalists of major daily newspapers have started to attack the master plans done for downtown Tallinn and the valuable recreational areas like Pirita or Kadriorg and have started criticising the irresponsible behaviour of the City bureaucrats. Stories told with a salesman-like smile about the breathtaking views and prestigious city life style of the high-rise buildings do not for a long time already create pretences that Maakri Street district’s atmosphere in Tallinn is somehow comparable to New York’s or other metropolis’ pulsating city life. Master plans and projects years ago passed in the dark offices of the City Government have simply become a cheep-looking reality in a real urban space, an environment to be seen and experienced by everyone. And this environment is terrifyingly far from being a city where besides driving through people want to spend time as pedestrians, wonderers. Is the division of downtown Tallinn into autonomous theme-park-like areas filled with spread-out shopping centres and towering office buildings an inevitable result of the powerful new liberal economic policy? And aggravation and shame about what’s happening to the public urban space a constant state of mind of all the architects who the least bit communicate with public?
Exactly a year ago architect Andres Alver thought here in the “Maja” magazine that may-be this chaotic growth – Tallinn’s local characteristic so much admired by western architecture people – is becoming to reach its critical limit and the potential for a new development phase and new spatial forms is beginning to appear.i May-be the city is replete from ugly architecture’s formation mechanisms, the market is exhausted. The fact is that in many Tallinn’s developing areas the moment of truth has arrived; the layer of the newest architecture has taken its form. It’s possible that it is more powerful and destructive to the environment than so far experienced in the city’s history. And it’s possible that now, when the telling evidence is starting to pile up, both the users and the political directors of the urban space start to believe architects’ critical comments about the results of hasty urban design decisions.

A lot has been written about the demise of public space especially by American theorists. Architects following the footsteps of Koolhaas are making thorough analysis of the shopping world and admit the role of shopping centres as the only places left for social interaction. According to Michael Sorkin the three characteristics of the new city are a-geography, surveillance and control, and endless simulation.ii Local character common to a traditional city has been lost, only standard and universal infrastructure has stayed. Desire to control as a very American feature leads to the stratification of the society (and also spatial arrangement); there is no network without control: passwords, log ins, magnetic cards and security cameras... The play of simulations and theme parks are may-be the most recognizable features of a contemporary city and they have been theorised over even through the example of metropolis-driven Tallinn. Pertinent “stories” that make the designs of small cafes as well as large stores for sale extend to larger districts – Tallinners seem to agree unanimously with old town becoming a medieval theme park with it’s costume-wearing town guards, theatre performances in the stronghold courtyards and handicraft markets.

The results of analysing Tallinn’s contemporary architecture in terms of creating/preserving public space are actually predictable. “Urban sprawl, mobile capital landscape, orientated towards the immediate needs of investors and businesses. Neither its built environment nor urban plans are meant to put emphasis on sustainability or integration that are necessary to connect residents to the broader past or future of their surrounding place. There are very few public services, little pedestrian walkways and public transportation. Instead private residences, businesses and cars are dominating. The only little public space in this sprawl exists in the form of retail only,” describes an American researcher of urbanism a typical postindustrial city.iii The same tendencies are all apparent also in Tallinn. As nearly all the construction (and also planning!) fall into private sector’s sphere of interests because of the origin of the financial capital, the character and programs of the new structures are pretty general, according to standard, with a guarantee of earning back the investments. Tallinn as an extremely minor landowner in European context (owns 5-7% of its land) is not able to be this “public” partner in the big projects and because of money and labour shortage the city has also given up the process of working out master plans the city government has also no means to stand up for public interests. An appropriate term “robbers of urban space” for real-estate developers came out in the discussion with Heiki Kalle, the chairman of the Planners Association.

The situation is well illustrated by the fate of two public squares in Tallinn. With a short interval, architectural competitions were held for both the plans of Viru (1998) and Vabaduse Square – the former for finding the best business plan, the latter for finding a design solution for the most formal urban landscape. Today the first square is on its way to completion (read: demise) with a support of probably the biggest investment in construction industry so far; the other is struggling in its unchanged form in the dead knot of public disagreement about the formal state square’s elements and their locations.

Because of its central urban location, multifunctional program and also the grandeur of the retail space, Viru Centre (designed by Künnapu & Padrik) will be a model structure, a giant capsule in the city’s central node of infrastructure. The multipurpose program – the complex will contain a hotel, cultural centre, parking garage, apartments, retail spaces, restaurants, underground bus station and grocery store – will lower business risks and give reason for architects to talk about a building as a live organism, a system that handles the movement of people and transportation, and is branching out to the surrounding urban fabric (sky bridges to Kaubamaja, Teenindusmaja and possibly to Rotermann District. “Continuous room is formed that protects people from miserable climatic conditions. The movement inside is cosy and comfortable, an exciting world of its own will be created,” believes Ain Padrik. “No other sector besides retail industry will build such glass lifts and domes, retail industry is a big thing for our meagre city at the moment thanks to what something is still happening here,” concludes the centre’s other author Vilen Künnapu. In order to fight their discomfort, the architects have packed in some cultural program as well to the Viru Centre - a central glass-covered rectangular form with no particular program so far that has been offered to the Guggenheim “museum industries” and the local concert organizers. This type of covered mini city follows all three of the main features of a new city according to Michael Sorkin – universality, controllability, and simulation. Certainly the new and larger “Viru” will work as an active common space – shopping connects! – but at one time the store will be closed too ...

Equally pure secure downtown simulation as the Viru Centre is the Tartu Rd – Maakri Street district’s play of being a real “city”. It seems that the new connecting road has almost justified the emergence of totally different, or at least extremely out of scale new architectural environment. All of a sudden a slum-like district became the focal point of the “mobile capital” speculations; asphalt and air became profitable sales arguments for developers: 30 stories, 40 stories ... Looking at the existing street pattern and division of properties in the district, it is clear that they are too tight for this kind of scale and the air so well sold on the upper floors is gone on the pedestrian level. The Maakri district represents the private investment, the now-mentality, speed and temporary contract sprawl with all its drawbacks (including cheap Photoshop architecture). It is a city for automobiles, where it’s convenient to rush through, rise to the offices from parking garages, but boring and even dangerous during evening time to walk around. Public space has become a ridiculed subject matter here, crammed in the bleak areas between the gigantic buildings – the area in front of St. John’s church is complemented by the area across the street where old underground ruins are exposed. A better example of how the private space of surrounding towers “eats up” these carefully preserved historic “islands” is hard to find.

The role of a chaotic land of opportunity has long been played by Tallinn’s harbour area, the coastal area extending from “Russalka” to Paljassaar more broadly. Although the situation here is rather similar to the situation in other parts of the city – only a meagre part of the coastal area is owned by Tallinn, the main part is state-owned – a unique master plan of the whole territory (by AS Entec, in 2003) has been completed that tries to direct the current and future developments with the power of law given to the master plan. According to the master plan the buildings with public functions are located to the Kadriorg side of the Vanasadama area, on the North-western Dock and to the Patarei (former prison) territory (all areas for obligatory architectural competitions). A pedestrian promenade is planned to run alongside the whole coastline. The tip of Paljassaare is reserved for nature park area until better ideas emerge, a little unexpected solution in an urban environment.

Needless to say, the guidelines for built environment on this planned area are very general and the developments initiated before the master plan stayed untouched. The uproar around Citymarket with its imported architecture does not prevent the other developers of the areas around the Admiralty Basin from commissioning English firms to do the planning, although an excellent architectural competition was held a year ago. Or nothing stops the developers of the Ilmarise District from pushing through the master plan of a dense apartment house region to the neighbouring Kalasadama area under the label of guesthouses and fish market.

Like it was admitted during the discussion of the master plan of the Pirita area (still not official) that during the master planning process the area was managed to be built up densely (!), the master plan covering the harbour’s downtown area came a little bit too late. Yet there are still areas around Linnahall, Patarei and other places that hold potentials of becoming public spaces for collective gathering and with the master plan the city has the means to support creating them.

------------------------------------------
article from estonian architectural review magazine Maja web page
its fairly old...(2003) but it gives off some clues of problems, planning.. and so on.

Oh, that was rather massive article.
But they speak about some things what I am afraid too regarding the future of Riga.
What, if the highrise district in Kipsala is built? Would they manage to get the people there in the evenings, would it be alive and pleasant? The waterfront saves it to great extent...

Any highrise city I have been up to now has been rather strange in evenings - it radiates something cold. Just the gangs of strange guys are walking by in late hours.

What makes highrise street look better?
1. It may be be wide alley with trees. Like the one in Dubai. Seems, Konstitucijos gatve in Vilnius would be something like this. Riga will not have such wide and long street in its highrise district, except for the Vantis bridge. Tallinn, seems, will not have it as well. May be Pirita Tee?
2. If the street is narrow, the general traffic should be pushed underground or somewhere else. This street should have street tram and greenery and a lot of interesting shops for different tastes, restaurants, one or two public event institutions - and very important is the viewpoint at the end of the street...
But if this all is achieved - it starts to compete with Old City which in turn is left for tourists only??? Our cities can not have endless lively centres, after all we are not that big countries.

Future seems to be complicated...

It was a surprise that Tallinn City owns that little land. Overprivatisation...

indeed...its hard to make large avenues, i think the problem does'nt only regard Tallinn or Riga but Vilnius aswell, I'm sure there will be more high rise buildings near ncc in the future...will all the highrise building situate next to constitution avenue?When i was there i didnt see large sidestreets, and if all the buildings are next to Cnst. ave. eventually the street will be overcrowded! And if they build more office space, more residential and so on... think about the bridges serving Const. Ave., can they cope with that much traffic? For any city the counteract for major traffic jams is a very good network of public transport, tram is the best solution, because it takes less room, a metro would be an ideal solution, since that doesnt take much room at all, but it costs loads, another option is elevated monorail but it needs a lot of urban planning!

(edit)as for pirita road, hmm, many are against building skyscraper there, the 16 storey building what was erected there last year has drawn alot of bad publicity, I aint too optimistic about seeing skyscrapers raized there, plus no tramlines go there, and commuting there would be a hardship, since õismäe, mustamäe, nõmme districts would be far away, and the cars would need to go through downtown, the location would be good for commuters from east tallinn, From keila, lasnamäe, viimsi and so on... but really, no tramlines reach that place... for the commuting point of view, Maakri street is a good place, because tramlines, trolleybuses, normal buses are all very close, and the airport is just 10 minutes away, and so is the bus station...

Elevated monorail was much discussed in Riga around 1989 - but everybody agreed that it will ruin the cityscape. Let's leave it for Seoul and Shenzhen.

Great discussion you have here.:)
btw, the Narva mnt 7 project hasn't made people too happy, at least that's what I understood after reading the comments in a news portal. I don't see why so many people are against everything new...:(
IMO this project has a good idea (something that's rarely true for Tallinn) and will make the street look a lot better.

umm...now as this thread exists, I suddenly don't know what to say anymore...:D

thats the problem... people are so negative against everything new, u read those comments... about 90% are negative...

loe tornimäe kohta ka... üldse.. totaalsed lollid, kõik vinguvad iga asja pärast!

i think we should take some forumers go to city hall, fail(lol spellig) in some applications, act like we are anti highrise, anti modern, then theres a 90% chance we get elected to the architecturalboard, if they propose a skyscraper we say its too dam short :) :cheers:

i wonder when will be the time when people with a little perspective for the future get elected there?!

Oh, that was rather massive article.
But they speak about some things what I am afraid too regarding the future of Riga.
What, if the highrise district in Kipsala is built? Would they manage to get the people there in the evenings, would it be alive and pleasant? The waterfront saves it to great extent...

Any highrise city I have been up to now has been rather strange in evenings - it radiates something cold. Just the gangs of strange guys are walking by in late hours.

What makes highrise street look better?
1. It may be be wide alley with trees. Like the one in Dubai. Seems, Konstitucijos gatve in Vilnius would be something like this. Riga will not have such wide and long street in its highrise district, except for the Vantis bridge. Tallinn, seems, will not have it as well. May be Pirita Tee?
2. If the street is narrow, the general traffic should be pushed underground or somewhere else. This street should have street tram and greenery and a lot of interesting shops for different tastes, restaurants, one or two public event institutions - and very important is the viewpoint at the end of the street...
But if this all is achieved - it starts to compete with Old City which in turn is left for tourists only??? Our cities can not have endless lively centres, after all we are not that big countries.

Future seems to be complicated...

It was a surprise that Tallinn City owns that little land. Overprivatisation...

good points :)

What, if the highrise district in Kipsala is built?
i think we all will be super happy :cheers:

The waterfront saves it to great extent...
yep, it will if you have planned to have nice big plazas line the waterfront!

Any highrise city I have been up to now has been rather strange in evenings - it radiates something cold. Just the gangs of strange guys are walking by in late hours.

uhh.. how could that be? When i was in New York i enjoyed every bit of it, the large commercial signs, the stockexchange rates buzzing on the screens, the large screens with, again, commercials and stuff in it, all the lights and glitter of the street signs, all made me feel like im in a lively place. If kipsala is built, I have a vision it will be very urban, with all the glitter of Manhattan.
Even now walking in tallinn's highrise district i get that warm feeling of manhattan inside! :cheers:

If the street is narrow, the general traffic should be pushed underground or somewhere else. This street should have street tram and greenery and a lot of interesting shops for different tastes, restaurants, one or two public event institutions - and very important is the viewpoint at the end of the street...

i think the cars can stay, but there should be enough space for pedestrians :) A good public transport service is also helpful. I think so too that its very important to have cafe's and restaurants and other institutions in them, a big wall of scraper isnt very pleasent!

But if this all is achieved - it starts to compete with Old City which in turn is left for tourists only??? Our cities can not have endless lively centres, after all we are not that big countries.

we dont have to be big to get alot of tourists! more tourists visit tallinn each year then the country's population, and with EU's help we can use EU's money to promote our country in foreign television :), that will bring in tourists, tallinn airport is fit for any plane, and our harbour can greet even the largest of cruiseships! And so can Riga, and Vilnius - i see Vilnius having a better railway and coach system than riga and tallinn, but who knows :) :cheers:

- Yeah, there are planned large plazas in waterfront of Daugava in Kipsala, all of it would be accessible to the public. "Saules akmens" is exception - it is near to the water (one of main reasons for scandals around it), but all the area around it would be public as well.
- regarding the highrise cities I have been... not that many, I like to travel in countryside. Auckland in New Zealand is extremely pleasant place but the planning in the centre... somehow it was "cold" except for the waterfront. Business quartals in Milano were far from the center and somehow cold and forgotten by everyday people in evenings. The same about Prague. Frankfurt - the older part and the other coast of Main were the lively places but among the skyscrapers - not that much. Unfortunately have not been in New York and HongKong - but the "Old cities" of these cities are skyscrapers contrary to our cities. All the city life what they have got, is among skyscrapers.
- And the last - I am not that much worried about the lack of tourists. After three years we would be tired of crowds of drunken westerners. But I would miss the rich life in Old Riga, where everything is happening, starting from business congresses and ending with opera and rocker festivals. I am afraid that in near future Old Riga would be silent, only in summer there will be crowds of tourists following the guide with megaphone. The business and government life, many international happenings will go elsewhere... But OK, everything is changing in life.

- Speaking about the comments in Internet. We in Latvia have three main news portals - delfi.lv, tvnet.lv and apollo.lv. In delfi.lv people come to say the worst things about everything. Nothing is good to them, even the victories of our soccer team or 1st prize in international violin competition are turned into tragedy. Tvnet.lv is somehow better, there are fewer comments, appears some intellect (today there is fight about the necessity of low-floor trams in Riga). The best is apollo.lv - there the comments per 50% have some idea, and often are positive :)

i think we should take some forumers go to city hall, fail(lol spellig) in some applications, act like we are anti highrise, anti modern, then theres a 90% chance we get elected to the architecturalboard, if they propose a skyscraper we say its too dam short :) :cheers:

agreed!:):D

Now regarding Tallinn, I know there is a project to connect the island of Aegna with the mainland. The exact way hasn't been decided, but a bridge and funicular railway have been proposed. At the moment there is ship traffic, but it's inefficent due to it's incapability to carry larger loads. At the moment the city government is being accused of corruption as it is believed they made the contract with the current operator dishonestly.
The island itself was very popular as a leisure place in the Soviet times but today it's popularity has grown smaller. There are no big houses and the nature is largely unharmed and that's why some people have expressed concern over the plan.

heh its quite funny, the situation here :)
about 50% are total haters of anything new, then there is the other 50% where people who like new architecture curse the other half to some countryside to rot :) :)

agreed!:):D

but a bridge and funicular railway have been proposed

ahh? funicular? what do you mean by that? :) is it a type of tram or light rail ?

Köisraudteed mõtlesin, ega ma tegelikult ei tea, kas see on inglise keeles nii, sõnaraamatust vaatasin:P

ahh? funicular? what do you mean by that? :) is it a type of tram or light rail ?
Funicular is an elevator that brings you up some hill or something what is high above ;)

ok thank you, funicular - gondolar? :)


hmm i think tallinn should start investing in high speed lines between downtown and lasnamäe(a good bed for tracks is Lasnamäe kanal), track to Õismäe, through järvevana tee(will also go through mustamäe), and a track to Viimsi, and ofcourse a high-speed track with 4-5 stops
Airport - bus terminal - centre - harbour

I think Alstom might have good solutions... :cheers: but our city is so slow do develop public transport!

If we are talking about long streets then the main street in NCC is not built yet.
Look at this picture:
http://img51.photobucket.com/albums/v156/Edd_host/IMG_3532.jpg

That curved bridge does not exist today. It'll connect the old city center with the new one. The street which runs further from that curved bridge will be the main street of NCC.

yes i see... very nice, i wonder why havent you shown that brilliant pic before! :)are there any plans, to make pedestrian only streets there too?
btw, vilnius gate is very nice :)

@ch1le: I don't know about pedestrian streets - I only know that there will be some kind of park.

These kind of photos were posted long time ago. I don't want to hijack this thread so I'll post a few links instead of pictures if you are interested:
img1 (http://img51.photobucket.com/albums/v156/Edd_host/IMG_3544.jpg)
img2 (http://img51.photobucket.com/albums/v156/Edd_host/IMG_3540.jpg)
These photos are of a model which was used in MIPIM'04: huge photo (http://www.vilnius.lt/dipolis/images/402_4v.jpg)

And here is a movie clip:link (http://www.vilnius.lt/dipolis/dok/v2004_eng_50.mpg) (it's quite big - about 60 MB).

@ ch1le

I suggest browsing the board as far as you can go. There's lots of marvellous stuff here.



Unfortunately, having high-rises in the city doesn't guarantee vibrant street life. In fact in many cases I've heard it's quite the opposite. NYC is an exception to the rule. In many American cities the downtown becomes very empty after the business hours.

Creating a lively area of city is difficult, but it's great that urban developers at least are aware of its importance. Here, it has also been discussed a lot, now that they are developing the Keski-Pasila high-rise area to Helsinki.

I've seen many people suggesting that having mixed use buildings with residential, retail, and office use or having both types of buildings in the same area is the key to solving the problem.



What I like about Tallinn's high-rises compared to the other cities in our region is their location: they are right there in the heart of downtown and not in some "artificial" high-rise district.

just quick note

this year in the first 5 months tallinn airport recieved 362 769 tourists by plane,
last year the first 5 months only brought in 266 703 tourists(increased by 96 066). Remarkable growth :)
this year in the first 5 months Port of Tallinn recieved 2111200 passengers, last year
in the first 5 months 1974100 passengers(increased by 137 100)
im thrilled to see such a big increase in the numbers of airtravel!

quite a good growth rate!

ohh... a very nice site i found :) http://www.tallinn.info/flash if u have time its worth to check it out.. i love the design!

Building company Merko is selling a plot in tallinn centre
http://www.merko.ee/dump.php?id=174 the empty void u see will hopefully in the near future be a building for offices, hotel or whatever :), the maximum amount of storeys on that plot is 7-8..



i scooped up some projects for that place, this one isnt anything special, and i havent heard anything which design won, but this is just to give you some ideas.
http://www.peil.ee/files/est_references_pictures_harbour/rotermanni.jpg

these are the things that put the TALL into Tallinn."

What an excellent quote! Superb! :omg: GOtta remember this one.

Mmm....... Tallinn, i like it.....

thanx blimey :) yeah :) that did sound cool :)

In this post I will present my ideas and proposals for the development of Tallinn

oh, btw, the post will be quite long, so I don't mind if you don't read it all:)

It is by no means meant to hijack the thread. If some and even many of them coincide with official proposals, then I assure you, I haven't stolen them. Non-Estonians and even non-Tallinners might not find this post particulary interesting, as in some instances, I'm going to be quite specific, and without much general knowledge about Tallinn, it won't be clearly understandable. I try to explain as well as possible, though. Having the map of Tallinn nearby is also recommended while reading this.
I would highly appreciate thoughts and suggestions on the same subject from you.
Through times, Tallinn has evolved, many rulers have come and gone. This evolution has made Tallinn into a mix of different styles, and now the city looks chaotic, without much identity. I'm well aware that my ideas are well above the sense of reality, but I'd like to generate some discussion about the future of Tallinn, and what kind of city we really want. I wish it would give people hope for the better future, the future where people will be asked for to speak out and say what they want they're city to be.
OK, now it's time to lose the sense of reality and dive into our dreams. This time, we'll make it better.:)

1. The City
The city-area of Tallinn is quite small and therefore cramped. Of course, for the city as small as Tallinn, the high-rise buildings need to be as close to
each other as possible. Today, the problem isn't the skyscrapers but rather the area between them, which in my opinion, is severely misused. These
areas consist just roads and parking places, nothing else. All you can see, is asphalt. Now that wouldn't even be that much of a problem, if the street
network, although large, wasn't that inefficent. The walkways are narrow and in some places they don't exist at all. Another major problem are the old
buildings between the skyscrapers, of which many are in terrible state and just unfitting to the city's business center. The newer buildings on the other
hand, aren't much better, as the certainly lack any kind of architecture. The high-rises seem to be one of the few buildings in Tallinn, that have at least
some sort of design. There is no "space" and air, the atmosphere in the current state, the lack of greenery and the sterile architecture are abusive, to put mildly.
As for the conclusion, the city-area of Tallinn is an unfriendly place, that lacks the real identity.
My ideas and proposals to better the city environment:
First of all, tear down everything, except the high-rise buildings and bigger roads. Second, make the city area bigger, the new city area should be located between Pärnu Rd, Narva Rd, J. Vilmsi St, Juhkentali St and Liivalaia St. The city needs water, a pond along the lines of the Schnell's Pond near the Baltic Railway Station is what I think. The pond should be located somewhere between Maakri and Kentmanni streets, the exact size and shape is not important right now. Such a pond would bring some freshness to the city. In the summer, boats could be rented there and in the winter, people could go skating there. As the pond would lie in the city center, there wouldn't be lack of interest. Other areas between the skyscraper district (which shouldn't consist the entire city-area) should have an artificial landscape. What I mean, is walkways and greenery on different levels, some high above the "normal" level, some at the same level and some lower. To move from one level to another large, wide and gently sloping stairs would be nice. Elevators could be built for handicapped persons. I was thinking that a monorail line could also go through the new skyscraper district, and thanks to the artificial landscape, in some segments it could drive above the ground and in some places like a tram. The coolest part of this idea would be that one station is located inside a skyscraper, now how much better you can get?
Let's move to the streets. Of the existing streets, only the Tartu Rd/Rävala Avenue should retain it's current shape, although the segment between the
Tartu Rd/Liivalaia St crossing and Kaubamaja should get some changes, for example, on the street level, the walkways should be under "roofs" and
above the street, two high-rises should be connected by a closed 2-storey bridge, which houses a cafe. On the Rävala Avenue segments, the lines should be widened a bit and the avenue itself extended to the Pärnu Road. The extension has been proposed before as a tunnel or as curvy roads, but in my plan, it should go straight, because as we already tore everything down;), there is no reason to worry about the Heritage Protection. Well, okay, let's save this rare tree... Lennuki and Maakri street, as they currently are, should go, to make room for the pond and artificial landscape. Kaubamaja street should go underground after the Rävala Av. and emerge in the beginning of Laagna Rd. or the "Lasnamäe Channel". There should be roads to enter and exit the tunnel on the Liivalaia St. near the Olümpia hotel and the planned skyscraper complex (Torn I, II etc.) on the place, where the Liivalaia/Juhkentali crossing is.
In the segment between Liivalaia and Rävala, there should be a underground large parking lot with some extra entry and exit ways. Juhkentali street, as it is, will go. At the city-side end of the Laagna Road, you'd have three choices:
1. to continue along the widened Gonsiori street
2. to enter the tunnel
3. to continue along the lenghtened Odra St to the Tartu Rd and on to the bus terminal. After the bus terminal, the Odra St. will turn to the current Filtri Rd, which will be widened and emerges into the Järvevana Rd. Back to the skyscraper district, I see one road go over the pond and also 2-3 pedestrian bridges.Small connecting streets will go for good.
We need more skyscrapers and I propose 2 more 120m and one 140m skyscrapers. A building too high will stick out like a needle, and this is not too nice, IMO.
The highest of them should be about halfway between Olümpia and Radisson and also house the monorail station. I propose no low buildings should be in the skyscraper district, because they won't let them "breathe" and hinder us from seeing the skyscrapers. Now as we're talking about lower buildings, the new ones shouldn't be just plain white or grey plastic houses as they are now. 50's style with some modifications would be quite good, but also newer buildings should be built. The important thing is that the buildings that have a very different style shouldn't be built next to each other. Let's do one street with one style, the other with
different style and so on.

2. Public transport
As I was talking about a monorail before, I think It'll be best to explain it first. The purpose of this line is to be an intra-city connector which is also useful for tourists.
The line should begin within the extended airport building and end in the City Hall.
1. stop: Airport
2. stop: new hotel next to the airport
3. stop: Ülemiste shopping centre
4. stop: Sikupilli shopping centre
5. stop: bus terminal
6. stop: a sport stadium (name?)
7. stop: Olümpia hotel
8. stop: Stockmann shopping centre
9. stop: inside the 140-meter skyscraper I proposed
10. stop: Radisson SAS
11. stop: Viru shopping centre
12. stop: CC Plaza
13. stop: unspecified place in the developing harbour area
14. stop: Port A/B passenger terminals
15. stop: the City Hall, will be the other end of the line.

Electric transport must be extended. My proposals for tramlines: 1. To extend the line from the Tondi terminus to Järve shopping centre. Not all of the lines have to go this far, though. 2. Bring back line nr. 5 3. Add a new line: Beginning in Järve, then turns to the Liivalaia street (which will be widened for this purpose) and from then on to the passenger port D-Terminal. 4. Another new line, beginning from the end of the Laagna Rd. in Lasnamäe, then on to the widened Gonsiori St, from there to Maneeži street and finally to Kopli. 5. The tramway along the Peterburi Rd. should also be lenghtened somewhat, although I'm not exactly sure how much.
No tramlines to the western part of Tallinn, this we leave for buses and trolleybuses. For example, bus line 18 is to be replaced by trolleybus. Some new trolleybus lines should also be opened, for example one from Õismäe to Mustamäe and from there on to the city. Also the 8th line should be brought back, but this time ending near the National Opera House Estonia (where trolleybus nr. 2 currently stops).
I was thinking about half-metro one time, which in the city are would be underground but in the other areas on the ground, but eventually I thought it might get too complicated with so many different types of transportation in such a small city, plus, with the new tramline to Lasnamäe, I can't see much use for it anyway, at leat notenough to justify the building of this.
Talking about public transport, we can't look over the streets, which need to be in good condition, to justify buying new vehicles. As the normal asphalt doesn't last very long, I though maybe it's better to use concrete? I know it's more expensive, but it's also much stronger. The streets won't have this nice fresh black looking anymore, though.

3. Residential areas
As for the commie-block districts, they're good enough to serve for many years to come. Of course they must be renovated and properly maintained, but that's not really an issue. I propose a new high-rise residential district to the other side of the Lake Ülemiste. It should contain residential towers up to 20 storeys high but most buildings should be between 2-10 storeys high. The buildings must not be closely together, but at least some 50 meters between them. And of course, they shouldn't look all the same, as the current
commie-blocks.

Geez...that was too long, and now I'm too tired to think any further......maybe tomorrow. Oops, it is tomorrow already:D Ok, later then.

i read it all and i must admit - you've got some bright ideas, Rene! i'm really thankful to you for taking this effort, i found your post extremely interesting. i've been thinking about Tallinn and its future as well, but i've been more unrealistic :colgate:

about demolishing everything in the city except highrises - it would be a solution if we want greenery and air in the area. but we all know thah this will never happen.... and to be honest, i can't fully agree with you... the city has developed in an area that's filled with beautiful architecture - the big brown/grey residential buildings from the 50's and lots of smaller Art Nouveau / Classicist(spelling?) residentials and some factories from the beginning of the 1900's. it would be a crime to tear them down as Tallinn doesn't have that much Art Nouveau.... the fact that Hotel Viru and Hotel Olümpia were built here is very awful. at that time they probably thought that there were no more taller buildings coming. i haven't really decided what my opinion on this whole thing is - i mean on the solution of making the city area more people-friendly.... and what makes it even more unrealistic - it's basically a residential area, people live in the houses that you, Rene, want to demolish :D

and the pond... it would kick ass, no doubt about that. but it would take much space. and a lot should be demolished for that. of course there's no problem if we're gonna sweep the area! =) [hmm... i used ''we'' in that sentence... maybe it means our generation is gonna be the one to think about these problems in the Tallinn developement department in some decades???]

maybe the city area should be taken to another place? or maybe just move it a little bit towards west, along Liivalaia street. bah! actually the whole center of Tallinn is filled with buildings. so something should be demolished, i hope we'll choole a better area, or in this case an area that's not that valuable architecturally.

i see you've got the monorail thingie all figured out already! and i think the route you proposed would be quite good. i'm sure most of the passengers will be tourists.
btw, stop no.6 - maybe you mean Kalevi Spordihall and Kalevi Staadion?

i think building a new residential area near Ülemiste Lake is quite an ambitious plan... hmm... i don't know about that. of course, the top-floor apartments would be very sweet places to live. but in that case the number of inhabitants in Tallinn should increase rapidly. there are lots of residential areas u/c and proposed (soon to be built) just outside Tallinn already. and i just can't see that much people wanting to live outside the city and still... in a city... i don't know if you get what i mean.

ok, i guess that's it for now.

thanks again for the good post! (: be sure to share your other ideas as well! and i hope more of our Estonian forumers will tell us about their ideas and thoughts.

i read it all and i must admit - you've got some bright ideas, Rene! i'm really thankful to you for taking this effort, i found your post extremely interesting. i've been thinking about Tallinn and its future as well, but i've been more unrealistic :colgate:
Thanks!:)

I've also had some more unrealistic ideas, for example, the metro. As to justify the building of this, it needs to be rather long, that's why I included the places outside Tallinn. I thought about three lines, that would have the central station under the 140-meter skyscraper I proposed:D:
1. Tabasalu - Maardu
2. Laagri - Viimsi
3. Jüri - Kopli

about demolishing everything in the city except highrises - it would be a solution if we want greenery and air in the area. but we all know thah this will never happen.... and to be honest, i can't fully agree with you... the city has developed in an area that's filled with beautiful architecture - the big brown/grey residential buildings from the 50's and lots of smaller Art Nouveau / Classicist(spelling?) residentials and some factories from the beginning of the 1900's. it would be a crime to tear them down as Tallinn doesn't have that much Art Nouveau.... the fact that Hotel Viru and Hotel Olümpia were built here is very awful. at that time they probably thought that there were no more taller buildings coming. i haven't really decided what my opinion on this whole thing is - i mean on the solution of making the city area more people-friendly.... and what makes it even more unrealistic - it's basically a residential area, people live in the houses that you, Rene, want to demolish :D:

got friends living there, huh?:D
Nah, actually, you have a very good point. Another chance is to tear down the skyscrapers and other modern buildings, but I doubt many of us would like that, either. Now about those people living there, we should send them to the new district behind Lake Ülemiste:D. It's not good, that too many people live in the city center. Of course, there needs to be some kind of life at nights, but that can be arranged with fewer people, too.
The buildings themselves are of course worthy of preservation, bu the way they make up the general atmosphere, is something that bothers me. I repeat what I've said earlier: we should build new houses using older styles.

and the pond... it would kick ass, no doubt about that. but it would take much space. and a lot should be demolished for that. of course there's no problem if we're gonna sweep the area! =) [hmm... i used ''we'' in that sentence... maybe it means our generation is gonna be the one to think about these problems in the Tallinn developement department in some decades???]

I can only hope so, but somehow I believe only oportunists can get there and not the people who want to change something for the better.
The thing I really want the most is a pond and the artificial landscape in the skyscraper district....and the monorail.:laugh:
Too bad the things we want the most are the ones hardest to get:(.

maybe the city area should be taken to another place? or maybe just move it a little bit towards west, along Liivalaia street. bah! actually the whole center of Tallinn is filled with buildings. so something should be demolished, i hope we'll choole a better area, or in this case an area that's not that valuable architecturally.

Well, not a bad idea, but I propose we built skyscrapers to both places:D
It's hard to find a place in Tallinn that hasn't got any architecturally important old buildings. Take the little church for example, next to the Union Bank skyscraper. Well, OK, it's nice and all, and besides it's a church, but it's on the way and it won't move.:tongue3:

i see you've got the monorail thingie all figured out already! and i think the route you proposed would be quite good. i'm sure most of the passengers will be tourists.
btw, stop no.6 - maybe you mean Kalevi Spordihall and Kalevi Staadion?.

Yep, the Kalevi Staadion is what I meant. I didn't recall the name yesterday, though.:)
I have the monorail figured out because it's one of the main things I want to see.:)

i think building a new residential area near Ülemiste Lake is quite an ambitious plan... hmm... i don't know about that. of course, the top-floor apartments would be very sweet places to live. but in that case the number of inhabitants in Tallinn should increase rapidly. there are lots of residential areas u/c and proposed (soon to be built) just outside Tallinn already. and i just can't see that much people wanting to live outside the city and still... in a city... i don't know if you get what i mean.

Ambitious it is. Indeed, I was counting on Tallinn getting more people, and not just that the people would come from other cities, but the general population of Estonia will increase and by tearing down everything in the city, people need a place to live:D.

You really have some good ideas, and i'm grateful that u posted your ideas!
But i have doubs about some of the projects

The line should begin within the extended airport building and end in the City Hall.
1. stop: Airport
2. stop: new hotel next to the airport
3. stop: Ülemiste shopping centre
4. stop: Sikupilli shopping centre
5. stop: bus terminal
6. stop: a sport stadium (name?)
7. stop: Olümpia hotel
8. stop: Stockmann shopping centre
9. stop: inside the 140-meter skyscraper I proposed
10. stop: Radisson SAS
11. stop: Viru shopping centre
12. stop: CC Plaza
13. stop: unspecified place in the developing harbour area
14. stop: Port A/B passenger terminals
15. stop: the City Hall, will be the other end of the line.



i fully agree that a monorail or other rapid transit system is badly needed... but those stops are tooo close together!

the distance between Ülemise centre and Airport hotel is almost nothing(just ülemiste would do, how many persons would go to that hotel daily?)!
Viru shopping centre and cc plazas distance is also too small... i suppose a monorail stop at postimaja (between both)


humm... i have some doubts about the proposed new residential towers at Ülemiste:
1. Its way too close to airport
a. NOISE
b. it would be a greater risk to airplanes if there are 20 storey towers nearby!
2. The soil isnt really reliable at some places... -
http://www.tallinn.ee/est/ametid/saastva_arengu_ja_planeerimise_amet/arhitektuuriteenistus/yldplaneeringud/skeem31.jpg

this map shows the likely places for buildings (not tall ones though) And new roads, rails etc... notice the dotted line indicating railway tunnel, now i aint sure if that leads just to aegna island.. or to finland :eek2:
http://www.tallinn.ee/est/ametid/saastva_arengu_ja_planeerimise_amet/arhitektuuriteenistus/yldplaneeringud/skeem1.jpg

this graph is the most interesting for me... because it clearly separates Tramlines, and Possible rail transport...that spot nr 5.. is Viru Centre(although they didnt make the bus terminal as big to capacitate trams i think there is nothing stopping them to make it bigger :)
http://www.tallinn.ee/est/ametid/saastva_arengu_ja_planeerimise_amet/arhitektuuriteenistus/yldplaneeringud/skeem16.jpg

graphs from tallinn's development site at http://www.tallinn.ee/est/ametid/saastva_arengu_ja_planeerimise_amet/arhitektuuriteenistus/yldplaneeringud/yldplaneering

I know themonorail stops are very close together. Actually, I did it on purpose, because in the city part, it would be easy to go everywhere without having to cross any roads. I wasn't thinking about large monorail wagons, but smaller ones, about the size of one Tatra T4 tram car (you know, the older ones). They should move very often, like in every 3 minutes.
On the other hand though, the Postimaja stop is quite a good idea.:)

btw, thank for the map, it helps me to explain.:)
The residential area I proposed is to be on a line halfway between Järveküla and Assaku and be east-west directional, so you could drive out of the district to both Tartu Rd. and Viljandi Rd. The higher towers are to be located nearer to the Viljandi Rd. and that's no too close to the airport at all. The noise caused by aircrafts wouldn't be higher than in Lasnamäe, and thanks to new and better isolation materials, it can be even smaller.
Now yes, the soil is another thing and it can ruin everything.....:(


Edit: You've been busy while I was writing the answer!:D
The tunnel is to Finland.

well tallinn is developing new residential areas... and theyr springing up everywhere, but they are mostly single family houses, i dont see a need for towers near ülemiste, since landcost is very small there, and if tall rsidential towers are built, it must be near some business quartal.
maybe the city area should be taken to another place? or maybe just move it a little bit towards west, along Liivalaia street. isnt that just whats happening... liivalaia is a nother major business centre.. with buildings such as Hansabank building and euroxi maja...and the towers facing Olümpia, belive me that area will be the centre in 7-10 years!


hmm i have a curious proposal aswell - the airport is way too close to town, that causes many troubles, first off, pollution to the nearby lake ülemiste, secondly it perhibits building really tall buildings 150-200-so on..., thirdly the noise is really really bad at some places. I have a proposal to move to airport away from town. Then with the airport building, it could be modified and made into a passenger terminal for trains, set up high speed trains to other major city's, really the train network needs alot of work! :)

ofcoure /\ that is pretty much utopia for 15-20 years to come... unless EU gives us BILLIONS

Update on Narva mnt. 7 building(the one that will be renovated)Because some are pdf formats, i think ill just post the page=
http://www.tallinn.ee/est/ametid/saastva_arengu_ja_planeerimise_amet/arhitektuuriteenistus/narva_mnt_7

hehe, moving the airport would be too utopian in my opinion... and i'm sure we will never see buildings as tall as 200m in Tallinn.

but take a look at the third graph!!! it shows that there are already plans for some kind of railway, why not a monorail... i like those blue lines :colgate: although they don't go to the airport nor the harbour. i'm seriously very optimistic about that monorail plan, maybe Tallinn will have it soon... who knows... maybe the trams will be even replaced?


i was in the city today (i had some business there anyway) and i kind of inspected the area... so, my proposals:
1. demolish the old factory building facing the underground museum. it was built in 1909 and it looks good but without it the area would be MUCH more open. the building is quite big too. instead, it should be replaced with a small park and maybe even a small pond or something, cause i agree with Rene - water is needed as well in the area.
2. demolish those small wooden residentials in Maakri street. i'm not sure but maybe they'll be demolished in REAL LIFE as well :colgate: to make room for the 2 highrises proposed in the same street, next to Maakri Maja... those wooden huts are not that valuable too. although people are still living there. = )
3. demolish the 3-4 late Art Nouveau / Neo-something-something buildings (darn, i'm not good at architecture styles!) to make room for the park and pond i proposed. those buildings are nice and all but not that valuable as well. and they're built together with the old factory i already tore down.
4. now that the wooden huts and those buildings i describes in point 3, we should make Maakri street wider.
5. LEAVE the beautiful nicely restored yellow building on the corner of Maakri and i think Lennuki (or is it Tornimäe?). it's just behind the construction site of Tornimäe towers. it would leave a cool impression - a nice, close to a 100 years old building in the middle of skyskrapers. contrasts can be very sweet sometimes.
6. demolish the low Hobby Hall building facing Maakri Maja.
7. demolish the garages next to Maakri Maja / behind Parkimismaja. and there's an ugly residential building too, some 5 storeys i think. grey and boring. demolish it!
8. plant some trees in the area. not big ones, smaller trees would be okay too. actually there are lots of trees right now in the area but they're in the backyards of those wooden huts. maybe those trees should be taken down too, to make the area open to build highrises. but every tree must be replaced with a new one, when the buildings are built.

comments, criticism???



ot: Rene, jah üks hea sõber elab majas mille sa vist maha võtaksid :colgate:

200m itsnt that much, without those bans taller buildings would come eventually...:)

I was just checking that site too... and yeah those houses are begging for demolishment! They renovated one of the old buildings, pity, but i guess it can stay now that its renovated :)

i think a artificial or stream would be nice
do you know entire central park in NY is man made?(lakes, ponds, streams etc, all)

Mmmmm a monorail would be great, just i think the city planners/ council should get a sniff of it, they pretty much dont know that it exists...(likely)
But yes that map, it says light-rail, hmm... monorail doesnt account for light rail, or does it?

elevated monorail in tallinn would be relativily easy and cost-effective to build too...it wouldnt take too long to make some pillars, set them up, put some track on them, and get a vechicle moving along it...oh man, i want monorail badly! :runaway:

@ jarmo, renx - p.s mis on eestikeelne sõna "monorail" jaoks? Üksrööbas? :P
Me peaks mingi kirja komposeerima ja sapale saatma... küsides mida nad arvaksid "monorailist"...oletame. 4 miiline track las Vegases läks 7.8 billionit krooni(hind baseerub ameerika maamaksude/muude maksude/ehitusmaterjalide põhjal, reaalne hind eestis vast ikka kõvasti väiksem)

@ch1le: Eesti ajakirjanduses olen ma näinud, et kasutatakse ka sõna "monorail"....aga nüüd sõnaraamatust järgi vaadates on seal vasted "üherööpmeline raudtee" ja "monorelss", mis vist olekski sobivaim.

Concerning the noise, moving the airport wouldn't be such a bad idea, but, let's look at the other side of this: The closeness of the airport to the city is also and advantage. For example, the London Gatwick airport is like 45 minutes away from the city on a high-speed train, don't even try to reach it by car. This closeness may be economically very useful, I think.

@Jarmo: good and realistic view!:) I can agree with everything you said. I have an idea though: Maybe it'd be cool if we built a skyscraper around this yellow building, so it could retain it's facade, but inside another building?

hmm facade molding :)

kas mitte selle vastas oleva majaga pole nii tehtud? et vanem osa on natuke sees?

@ch1le: You mean the Tartu Rd. 16?
I was thinking that the building would be inside another, so that you enter the skyscraper and in the lobby you see the other building's facade.

thats the one ( i guess :D)

that solution would be mega waste of money/space/you name it..!

that house isnt that important... that small church though... that could be inserted in a building :) :cheers:

Yes, it would:D
But I don't think we should spare, our city is worth the best.:)

Do it well, or not at all.

then.. i say... bomb it :)

teate, et vahepeal pakuti välja ehitada mingi transport rocca al Mare vabaõhumuuseumi, tivoli, loomaia ja kaubanduskeskuse vahele... pakuti välja ka monorelssi, kahjuks asi kaugemale ideest ei saanud.. aga ikkagi! Mõelge.. kui see saaks valmis mingi 4-5 aasta jooksul(kui saaks kuidagi reklaamida selle ideed) siis võib ju Tallinn õppust võtta!

Ei ole sellest kuulnud:tongue3: aga idee on lahe ja väärt edasiarendamist.:)
Loodetavasti mõeldakse ka millegi ebatavalisema peale (monorelss siis), vahelduseks tavalistele transpordivahenditele.
Aga millegipärast ma kahtlen, et linnavalitsuses see kedagi huvitab, juhul kui nad sellest muidugi ise kasu ei saa. Nii lihtsalt on.:(

I'm afraid monorail doesn't count as light rail, the monorail cars are usually smaller and lighter, also they don't drive on the ground.
A good example of light rail is the Docklands Light Railway in London:
http://pressroom.dlr.co.uk/images/upload/i_mar04_a_big.jpg
http://pressroom.dlr.co.uk/images/upload/i_mar04_b_big.jpg
The most interesting thing is that they don't have drivers:cool:

A nice monorail in Sydney. I think wagons half the size of this would be ideal for frequent traffic in Tallinn.
http://garage.physics.iastate.edu/family/pictures/2002/sydneywalk/pictures/monorail.jpg

hmmh...what is the relative max speed of light rail, i assume they are faster then trams :)

http://www.hot.ee/skyscrapers/plaza.gif

The city wants to build a plaza at the beginning of Tartu Road (from City Plaza high-rise building to the crossing with Liivalaia Street). There will be fountains and some trees. The plaza will be probably done with Tartu mnt. 15 at the same time. The tramway will stay.

I am not sure, but I think that's why City Plaza has such name.

Thanks for the update, Juno'Re!:)
btw, for a moment, after seeing this blue area, I happily thought Tallinn has decided to make the pond there:laugh:
Nah, actually it's good, it's not ideal, but good. At least some advancements to make the city more people-friendly.

:)
By the way, Tornimäe complex will have a tiny, tiny "pond" outside the building.

hahaha :D greaat :) Plaza would be a wonderful thing!
btw Juno're where do u get all this information? Do you visit Nunna tn hoove every now and then??? Or -

Juno're do you know when is Tartu mnt 15 building due to? :)

the newspaper "postimees" reports that despite the fact that new hotels are popping out everywhere around tallinn, and that the weather has been rather horrible(to say atleast) All the hotels have been sold out for July! Thanks to the expansion of EU tourists are flocking to all the Baltic states!

there are 43 hotels in tallinn :cheers:

oh wow, sounds unreal almost! i guess we need more big (highrise of course!) hotels here, in Tallinn.... (:

A new 12-storey residential building, CityResidence, will be built on Liivalaia street, next to the Euroxi Maja. It'll be finished in December 2005.
The first floor will be for business, others for apartments.
http://www.ober-haus.ee/liivalaia/images/picture/tanavalt.jpg
http://www.ober-haus.ee/liivalaia/images/picture/tanavalt2.jpg
http://www.ober-haus.ee/liivalaia/images/picture/linnale.jpg
http://www.ober-haus.ee/liivalaia/images/picture/panoraam.jpg
http://www.ober-haus.ee/liivalaia/images/picture/asend.png
http://www.ober-haus.ee/liivalaia/images/picture/vaade11.png
http://www.ober-haus.ee/liivalaia/images/picture/vaade22.png http://www.ober-haus.ee/liivalaia/images/picture/vaade33.png

I quite like it, looks nice on the renderings:)

I like it too, really nice building. And seems that Liivalaia street will be part of modern city centre too.

I like it too, really nice building. And seems that Liivalaia street will be part of modern city centre too.
Yes, agreed, although, on the other side of the road, you know, these comiethings, we should renovate them.

heeey, that one looks great! very cool, i like it very much.

@Obstacle - as the whole area is getting more and more modern every day then i'm sure those old commies will be renovated (or maybe demolished :colgate: ) as well.

well, one commie-block on Liivalaia street was already somewhat renovated, you can see it on the second picture in my post about CityResidence. Can't say it's too good, though.
Now, I really hate the lower part of this new building, it's again this sterile "euro-white" plastic-house.:( Why can't the architects be more imaginative?

I am not that sure how I like that 12floor building. In the first picture it looks OK, but in the second... weird and out of place among lover buildings. Or may be these lover buildings are just out of place?
Is there zoning of allowable height in Tallinn?
Btw. according to Emporis standards that would be even 13floor building.
Checked - no Ladas visible on these pictures :)

WOW i love it! lol yes... maakri str and liivalaia highrise districts will be connected throught Hotel Olümpia and the ones what maybe will be build on the other side of road from Hotel Olümpia, actually liivala str. has Euroxi maja highrise, Ministry of funds house, then this new one, and then Hansapank building... :) nice :=)

Does anybody have a link to this subject?

@Obstacle: http://www.ober-haus.ee/liivalaia

yup its 12 storeys + penthouse :) so 13storeys and 1 underground storey! :)

Freedom Square will get a new look. At the moment it is just a parking lot.
1.Tennis-courts will be replaced with pedestrian area and underground parking garage(~ 400 parking places)
2.New stairway to tunnel
3.Parking lot will be replaced with pedestrian area and underground parking garage.
4.Glass roof of tunnel
http://www.postimees.ee/290704/gfx/6408410804185b58f.jpg

A new 12-storey residential building, CityResidence, will be built on Liivalaia street, next to the Euroxi Maja. It'll be finished in December 2005.
The first floor will be for business, others for apartments.
http://www.ober-haus.ee/liivalaia/images/picture/tanavalt.jpg
I quite like it, looks nice on the renderings:)

I have totally missed this project. Looks very pretty, and the facade is cool. :)

1.To empty area (11,7 sq.km) near Stroomi beach and Kolde street will be built new buildings:
4-storey North police department building
3-storey office building for environmetal ministry
sports centre
8 apartment buildings
and new park will be made.
http://www.eareng.ee/images/Galerii/detplan/pelguranna.jpg

things are so quiet in tallinn, you could hear a pin drop... really.. only new residential areas popping up here and there... urban sprawl is at its full.

Yeah, there aren`t much news about big projects, but a lot of smaller projects. Yesterday in Päevaleht and Postimees was an article about Rotermanni kvartal which is quite big project.

But small city Rakvere(pop. 18096) wants to build first higrise building to Rakvere. It will be 16 or 17 storey highrise building.

Again some small projects...
1. Kalevi swimming-pool in downtown will become modern water park. Building will be renovated, one part will be demolished and new part will be built for water park and 5-storey 3-star hotel. Also new pool will be built to outside, water slides and other things. Swimming-pool will be opened in December and new hotel in spring.
http://www.eestikalev.ee/pictures/ujula_0025.JPG

Thanks, I personally like these "small" projects. A bit strange and interesting about that highrise building in Rakvere. I once stayed overnight in Rakvere, in Theater hotel. That was fine feel. I like the feel in these small city professional theatres - the show there is something like show off for best local people, who come to theater in their best outfit.
Resume: I like Rakvere. Hope they will not spoil historical centre - it was nothing special, but still fine. Castle ruins there are spectacular!!!

CityResidence looks as a very beautiful tower, has it started construction?

Thanks, I personally like these "small" projects. A bit strange and interesting about that highrise building in Rakvere. I once stayed overnight in Rakvere, in Theater hotel. That was fine feel. I like the feel in these small city professional theatres - the show there is something like show off for best local people, who come to theater in their best outfit.Resume: I like Rakvere. Hope they will not spoil historical centre - it was nothing special, but still fine. Castle ruins there are spectacular!!!
Rakvere is nice city indeed. I think that they`ll not spoil historical centre, altough they have a lot of modern projects. Central square is stylishly reconstructed, new sports centre and bus station is built. Highrise will come to central square. Next projects will be water park/hotel and agency hall.

CityResidence looks as a very beautiful tower, has it started construction?
Officially construction started in July, altough last time I passed from there, I didn`t see any signs of construction.

long time no see! Well, time to post a lil more.
Apartment building at Asula st. Built by construction company FKSM (also building rävala 4 building - the one next to City Plaza)
The house has 10 floors
http://kinnisvara.fksm.ee/images/est/mod_resp/header/44.gif
Sorry, dont have any detailed pics of it - i try to get em later.
Completion date summer 2005

well, its a big old commu building... houses some conference centres, some stages for different acts etc... now there is plan to renovate it... and whoa... do they mean Renovate! :runaway:
Cost of renovation - 300 miljo to 400 miljo EEK thats 20 mio - 26 mio €
There is some critisicm about the plan, some like it, some dont, people are glad we gonna get a bigger culture centre... more cinemas, theatres, a 2 storey carpark.. Mmmm, sounds nice!
well - the current situation: http://www.sakala.ee/images/tere_fassaad.jpg
/\ that pic is at its best, it actually is a horrible monolith!
and the new one is a mix between Sidney opera theatre and a UFO ;)
it will be 7 storeys... It will contain multiplex cinema, caffe, restaurants, shopping centre, Jazz club - all that the body and mind need! -enough, let the pics talk by themselves!
http://www.tallinn.ee/est/ametid/saastva_arengu_ja_planeerimise_amet/arhitektuuriteenistus/sakala_vaade_ravala1.jpg
thats the view towards Estonia theatre - i borrow this Oberleutenants pic for a sec to illustrate the location!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v125/oberleutnant/tallinn/theatre.jpg its just right of the photographer(in this case OL)(across the road)
Take a look at this pdf to get a sense of location! -http://www.tallinn.ee/est/ametid/saastva_arengu_ja_planeerimise_amet/arhitektuuriteenistus/sakala_asendiplaan.pdf the building on the right is Estonia National Theatre - what in itself is a huge building!


its modern, its glassy, i just about like it... :)

I have gone to places, no one has ever gone with the information i dug up for this thread... this is the introduction to LRT in Tallinn, sorry, no pics! well, ok mby a few!
First off i went to my favorite online news portal and typed in kiirtramm(what in estonian mean FASTTRAM, but i think its the same las LRT 90kmph!) what i got was 5 hours of reading... so i started at ten o clock... and here i am! :bash:, im sleepy... so plz, i know my english can become less-then-understandable...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Tallinn is a car city, the streets are always full of cars, no matter the time, estimated 65% of people here use a car, that leaves 35% to public transport, 15 years ago i belive the figures were vica-versa..The reason - public transport was better at that time, and cars werent available for everyone, todays masstransit in tallinn is in a condition less then good. A major issue in tallinn city gov elections has always been public transport, everytime they promise to make it better, but they dont, and i aint surprised, im sure all of them use a car, they have never been in any of the transport vechicles i have. Dispaite that less n less people use Publictransport(from this point i call it PT) their still full, especially at morning - i know that well since i have to go to school useing a bus at 8 am! In that sense i am lucky, coz the bus stop is 2 min away, and the bus stop is the first one for that line, so i have a guaranteed seat everytime. but the people in the next stop are not that lucky... the bus is full by the third stop... and there is still 6 to go, for that reason i like to sit in the back, facing the back, horrible to see those poor people rammed into one tiny bus, but what can i do? I need to get to school, im also carrying a 5 kilo schoolbag. The bus is full even on Saturdays and Sundays, like my friend told me, he was going to the trainstation downtown, he stepped into the bus 5 AM on Sunday(cmon, every sane person on this planet is sleeping at this holy hour at this holy day)but no, there were still alot of people in that same bus. The reason - tallinns PT is free for pensionears(people over 65), a big mistake in my opinion, they have nothing to do with their time, so, to get to the market they travel by that bus at 5 am, on Sunday, to get a a carton of milk 20 cents cheaper they will travel by that very same bus to the other side of town, by that the old lady will gain 20 cents, but she has done about 20 kroon loss for the town - thats horrible. Another big problem with PT is that they arent that appealing to travel in, those old ladys, are mostly russian speaking, and to be honest they dont smell so good, they sit, and they stink up the place - now who would like to travel in bus that stinks - NOONE, who wouldnt prefer a clean bakteria free car to a old scrummy, slow, stinking BUS, point, end... Well, Tallinn is doing something about the old & scrummy part... new buses are ordered each year, and everyone is pleased to see new brilliant citybuses zrooming in the city! But they have done nothing with the slow part, the town is still full of cars, and the buses must travel in the same place as cars(some use hidious routes and it takes it 20min more to get to town then by car) - and there are cars everywhere!
The new buses are Unstinki for a limited time, those oldladys, will go to them too oneday, and plague that bus too, so once again it will be stinki... eeww, well, regular maintanence would do the trick, makeing those old ladys pay for their trip would most certainly approve the condition.
BUT BUSES WILL BE SLOW AS LONG AS THERE ARE CARS in THose very streets. Well the suburb i live in - Lasnamäe, is home for such stinky old ladys, i personally hate them, but enough about them.A big portion of the people in tallinn live in Lasnamäe, at those big commieblocks, the population density in lasnamäe is the highest. But there arent many jobs in Lasnamäe... so people have to get to downtown, or to other regions in tallinn to work! Uhh, and that means moving a 100 000 people each day to central tallinn, and all that by bus, The geogaphical positioning of tallinn also makes the situation harder.
Take a look at this map, it shows the density of jobs per ha(uhh its old 95, the situation is even worse now!), lasnamäe is the right part, almost the whole thing. As u also see, Lake Ülemiste and the sea create an interesting way to tallinn downtown, it creates such (uhh sorry i went to sleep at this part) bottlenose. The jobs are in central and western tallinn, and there many of the inhabitants of lasnamäe have to go. So they have to travel right through downtown tallinn!
http://www.tallinn.ee/est/ametid/saastva_arengu_ja_planeerimise_amet/arhitektuuriteenistus/yldplaneeringud/kaart13b.jpg
k...one way to change all that consestion on the street is to built that tramway to lasnamäe. So, one morning somewhere around 1999 i went to the street, and noticed posters in many places, on the houses, doors etc, and it depicted about a LRT running in the Lasnamäe channel, also known as Laagna road(a 4 lane roadway to downtown)
http://www.sildreklaam.ee/pic/kaart.jpg
its in real life alot longer then depicted on that map. The road was built, in mind that a tramway would travel in the middle, there is even a patch all the way through it for it, and there are even some underground depos made for them. Well, that was awesome news, a lrt running in the Lasnamäe channel. Plans had already been made, most of the financing set, drawings done. The LRT line would go from lasnamäe through the channel, then underground at some point, The tram would have been underground next to the scrapers, below Tart mnt extension(in the place where the tram should have been, theres a huge underground parking lot - jarmo told OL about that lot too) there would have been a central station at Viru centre(Underground! next to the place where the buses stop now), and from there it would have moved to the harbour area(seen as a fast developing spot even then 1999), and from there to the Railway station Balti jaam - by electrified train u could then run to eastern tallinn. The research planning etc had been done by Adtranz(now owned buy Bombardier), the initial planning was going to take 1.5 years, then 3 years of construction, the lrt would have been up and running by 2005. Money would come from various places, from estonia 1.5 bio.
The result: nothing has been done til this day, only a plan remains in the department of planning -
http://www.tallinn.ee/est/ametid/saastva_arengu_ja_planeerimise_amet/arhitektuuriteenistus/yldplaneeringud/skeem16.jpg
The blue line is the one i talked about, the dotted blue line would be the later extension. The purple line is the current tramay(PITYFUL)and the dotted purple line is possible extension of tramway.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
One of the problems of that plan was that Lasnamäe channel wasn't ready at the beginning...but its completed now, financing was another thing, but now we have the EU behind us, a billion or so is big money, but its a lot less now. There are more cars in tallinn now then there were in 1995, more people, tallinn's urban sprawl is really booming - they need to get to tallinn somehow!
A number of research has been done by alot of foreign firms over and over again in tallinn.
in 2002-2003 Danes did a research and suggested a lrt or tram ling between lasnamäe and downtown, in 2004 french Systra did its research, and also suggested tram or lrt, but what has the citygov done... nothing :(
Systra did research in Vilnius and Riga too, Vilnius will get 3 tramlines, financing, planning all is beeing done. It was put in the priority list in vilnius gov, Systra did research in Riga, a city with a strong tramway link all around the city, they suggested they optimize it, riga set it in its Priority list, and what to we see? Colorful pics of trams and plan given to us by Gatis! But in Tallinn, the city gov only cares what mark of car they have...! OK, still they are doing something, its in the plan of tallinn 2010. And its prohibited to build anything on the route of that tram...(ehh what about tart mnt extension and that parking lot)!

wow:eek2:

You've done one helluva job. Good reading, thanks!:okay::)

btw, is the channel really completed already?:eek:

it isnt completely ready...but they are working on it, extension from Mahtra road to Ümera road is ready though :)they did 3 km further!
http://static.epl.ee/g/pics/piceM7AvP.jpg
the extension to Peterburi mnt. will complete in October i guess:)

ch1le 15 years ago the numbers were more then vica-verca the traffic in the city was about the dencity of a busy village street ....meaning 10-15 cars an hour.... :) people used their feet :runaway:
sry i like to point out the smallest of mistakes :tongue2: :nuts: :poke: :blahblah:

well.. long time no see, oh dear thread!
well, ok, in todays, well, yesterdays Äripäev (business paper) there was a report on scrapers proposed in tallinn, all are around the current skyscraper district, woo, we have the greatest cluster in northern europe!! :D, k... there werent any pics, but these are the scrapers:
Tartu mnt 15
35 storeys
APPROVED! :D
developers: Baltlink Valdus ja Vallikraavi Kinnisvara
Tartu mnt 17
40 storeys
filed in application to start detailplanning
Developer: OÜ Viis Veeringut
they filed in the application 2 years ago!(now say that things go quick only in finland..)
Tartu mnt 25, 25a
30 storeys
filed in application to start detailplanning
developer: Brennon OÜ
by the developers notes it should be 30 storeys, polufunctional, business spaces, apartments and parking
Maakri 19/21
30 storeys
detail planning started
developer: AS Logoner
its between twins and radisson, no current plans on building
Maakri 34
19 sotreys
detailplanning started:
developer: E.L.L Kinnisvara
would contain offices, apartments the works
Maakri 19/Lennuki 22 ja 24
40 storeys
filed in application to start detailplanning
developer: Concordia advokaadibüroo
Architect should be Raivo Puusepp(woo, wait for something great, Union bank is one of his works)
Maakri 28 ja 30
24 storeys
detailplanning started
developer: Karen Ter-Ovanesjan
by the plan it would contain offices, apartments, and a garage, on the garage a green garden is planned

-
well, things certainly look bright for Tallinn city! :D

Well, impressing, it's going to change the skyline to a brightly better shape :okay: :yes:

Maakri 19/Lennuki 22 ja 24
40 storeys
filed in application to start detailplanning
developer: Concordia advokaadibüroo
Architect should be Raivo Puusepp

Wow!

That list is awesome, but especially this is just great. Fantastico!



@ Ch1le

I'm honoured, thanks!

Wow, 7 new skyscrapers, it`s cool. In one article also is written that Tallinn
perhaps will become real skyscraper`s jungle in Tallinn`s NCC... :cheers:
And near to Maakri district there will be a new church with height of 30-storey building.

Jeez, how the realty market of Tallinn will swallow this??? Very impressive!

O wow, ch1le! :okay: That was quite a post up there! :applause:

I like your new abbreviation: PT for public transit, that's just excellent. We should all start using it! :cool:

Thanks for the vivid description of life on the bus in Tallinn. :laugh:

Otherwise I share your sentiments: it's hard for municipalities to come to grips with their traffic and PT problems, agree to a solution, and then implement that solution (in some cases of course it's a mere band aid, nothing really to make a tangible change ;) )

So I understand and sympathize with your frustration about that long planned-for and clearly needed tram line not having materialized. :(

On the other hand, try to see things from the perspective of city government. The project is HUGE and will require enormous funds, plus long term disruption of current infrastructure. And of course such an undertaking will inconvenience the lives of thousands of residents over a long period of time.

In the end, whether the work is performed now or later or never, people are going to complain. :bash:

My part of the world has enormous problems with PT (too little although great for US standards) and automobile traffic. So the bus company has come up with a cute little "solution" that will transport people by a vastly enhanced rapid bus line which nobody really needs to parts of the world where nobody really wants to go while at the same time grabbing two traffic lanes on a major corridor, creating a small bus/pedestrian stretch that will be pure horror and pushing all the traffic & parking off into neighborhood streets.

The neighbors don't want it, and the merchants in the projected pedestrian area are raging against it. I hope that PT improvement project will NEVER be realized! :rant:

Hey Tallinn, come on, what is this? :) Take it easy, huh! :eek2:

hopefully most of them will be approved.

oh, and some religious dudes want to build a very tall church as well, that would be as tall as a 30 storey building. the location would be not far from the city center.


and cityresidence isn't actually 'under construction', right now they're just preparing the area.

i made a very very very crude picture with the buildings i mentioned before... + added twins and the elusive one next to Hotel Olümpia...
http://www.hot.ee/ch1le/plaanitud.jpg
counting from the right to left:
Tartu mnt 17
Tartu Mnt 15 the black part:P
Tartu Mnt 25, 25a
twin 2
Twin 1
Maarki 19/21
Maakri 34
Maakri 28, 30
Maakri 19/lennuki 22, 24
and the one across the road from Olümpia

i really aint sure of heights, so i added by the eye, judging by the backround scrapers already done... im sure i made alot of them too tall...i really didnt make any calculations on it...its just to give u a perspective of how close they are!

Holy cow! If they all gets built Tallinn will have the best skyline in northern Europe :eek:

wait a minute.. dont we have it now?;)

wait a minute.. dont we have it now?;)

LOOOOLLLLLL, now that's a joke of the century! :hilarious :rofl:

;)

;)... no, really? :D

Tallinn gets a honorable 2nd place, that's still very good :D

ch1le, unfulfilled dreams will just make you more upset ;)

:D

i think tallinn's skyline is better than vilnius'. call me biased if you wish. i don't care :)

It depends on what you call a skyline ;)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v125/oberleutnant/episodi2/skyline3.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v191/blimey_ltu/vln/48b0dfe0.jpg

The last 2 pictures clearly show what is what :okay:

that's not a good place to photograph tallinn's skyline. there are many better.
not that it matters. i still prefer tallinn's over vilnius' skyline.

that's not a good place to photograph tallinn's skyline. there are many better.
not that it matters. i still prefer tallinn's over vilnius' skyline.
Because it's a capital of your country, isn't it? ;)

Here we go again... This is better than that and my is better than yours....

That's a damn shame I can't participate... :D
But what the hell, wait just a couple of years, and you'll see some great skyline just around the same place this little beauty stands...

http://img83.exs.cx/img83/2431/naktsakmens.jpg

I can`t see Viru Hotel in Tallinn skyline picture ;) Wait when 7 new skyscrapers+church will be built...

I can`t see Viru Hotel in Tallinn skyline picture ;) Wait when 7 new skyscrapers+church will be built...
You should thank that it's not visible there :D :D ;) Yes, we will wait, if those will be built ;)

http://city.isgreat.tv/gallery/img/IMG_0031.jpg >> "a lot can happen in few years", a motto that should be kept in mind when talking about what city has the best skyline in the future. Let's just stick with the original topic of the thread, ok? :)

Vilnius has a good one now, better than Tallinn, for sure, but not for a long time.
And one other thing, Tallinn's highrise can be viewed from the water(with the famous Old Town view) and Riga has the same thing (the new place from the other side of the river). But Vilnius one is rather inland.

Vilnius has a good one now, better than Tallinn, for sure, but not for a long time.
And one other thing, Tallinn's highrise can be viewed from the water(with the famous Old Town view) and Riga has the same thing (the new place from the other side of the river). But Vilnius one is rather inland.
You are right Neris river is too narrow but that does not make a skyline worse ;).
The view with the river:
http://img19.exs.cx/img19/1897/12240.jpg

Btw also there is something what Vilnius has and Tallinn with Riga lacks - some hilly lanscape:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v191/blimey_ltu/148_4860.jpg

http://img45.photobucket.com/albums/v137/Mantaz/IMGP4857.jpg

Artificial lake and a bay maybe will improve a situation in Vilnius but I doubt that there are plans to make artificial hilly landscape for Tallinn or Riga :D.

Edd... have you been to tallinn? enough about this, create a thread in skybar if you want tallinn vs vilnius...k?

Edd... have you been to tallinn? enough about this, create a thread in skybar if you want tallinn vs vilnius...k?
You should have noticed that I was not the one who started everything - my post was just a reply. And yes I have been to Tallinn - only a very long time ago :).

well... hills have been created since then! ok ok, ofcourse tallinn isnt as hilly as vilnius... but saying tallinn is FLAT is wrong :)

@ch1le: Ok, lets leave all those water-landscape-skyline discussions :) - atleast we should not continue to discuss such things in this thread because we'll spoil it.

Because it's a capital of your country, isn't it? ;)

that's right. :sleepy:



by the way, Edd, if you're referring that i started this utterly dumb nonsense then read the posts again. :)
i regret i ever posted here. i should be more quiet... :weirdo:

Okay, let's stop it here. The last time I checked this was a thread about Tallinn projects, not comparing Vilnius to Tallinn. I've made my stance on vs discussion pretty clear before: they're childish, unnecessary and create friction between forumers, even if you interject your posts full of emoticons.

Wise words, Ober.... :rant:

yesterday, on the forum on city development in tallinn, the city council, major etc, reported that there will be a Manhhattan in tallinn. The nimbys were not even envited to this forum of city council and different companies. Tallinn's major reported in his speech what lasted half an hour, that why cant there be Europes tallest in Tallinn? Also he reported that tallinn is changing more in the coming 2 years then in the last decade! Ofcourse the diffrent companies cheered to that, and so do I, and i guess the rest of SB! Things sure are looking bright for tallinn! :cheers: :cheers:

Skyscrapers and their planning is very hot news in our daily papers, there have been several articles about them this month! Now we just need a nice meetup, to get their attention :) :runaway:

yesterday, on the forum on city development in tallinn, the city council, major etc, reported that there will be a Manhhattan in tallinn. The nimbys were not even envited to this forum of city council and different companies. Tallinn's major reported in his speech what lasted half an hour, that why cant there be Europes tallest in Tallinn? Also he reported that tallinn is changing more in the coming 2 years then in the last decade! Ofcourse the diffrent companies cheered to that, and so do I, and i guess the rest of SB! Things sure are looking bright for tallinn! :cheers: :cheers:
Hahahaha. Manhattan you say :D How many hundreds of million m2 there will be? :D

Manhattan in tallinn, major meaned that in the way that there will be a distrcit with very tall buildings... Maakri district for example

Manhattan in tallinn, major meaned that in the way that there will be a distrcit with very tall buildings... Maakri district for example
Well, I think development of such a district is already undergoing, isn't it? ;)

yeah, that's great!:cheers:
Maybe we're lucky and there won't be any more obstacles and we can build whatever we want.

@Mantaz: nice avatar!:)

@Mantaz: nice avatar!:)
Thanks :D Do you know what building is this? ;)

@Mantaz: Yes I do:)

that's great news

Go go go go Tallinn :)
Hope that these projects would be innovative and unusual... and tasty

yeah, that's great!:cheers:
Maybe we're lucky and there won't be any more obstacles and we can build whatever we want.

@Mantaz: nice avatar!:)

just saw one obstacle a post or two up :)
:jk: , yeah thats great... hope they will apporove all the buildings :P

yeah, that's great!:cheers:
Maybe we're lucky and there won't be any more obstacles and we can build whatever we want.




yeah, that came out somewhat funny:D. No pun was intended, though.

So Tallinn will be the place to be soon... I hope it will become reality for yu guys and the rest of us! Lets :cheers: to the new Maakri Manhattaani :D

So Tallinn will be the place to be soon... I hope it will become reality for yu guys and the rest of us! Lets :cheers: to the new Maakri Manhattaani :D

indeed! thanks, man! :cheers:

HEY!... a month has passed and no new news, well, time to change that!!!

1st. off A new 16 storey scraper mby built in Mustamäe, near the hospital, no otheri nformation on it...

2... And this is important: Tallinn got new mayor! weeee Tõnis Palts, who was the mayor in 2001 June - December(he was removed and replaced by the former mayor Savisaar)Well, good news guys, he is pro Skyscrapers! Well, in their agenda is to demand money from the EU to build, thats it, LRT to Lasnamäe - i made a report about that above so :), excellent day, isnt it?

Good news :)
I've never liked Savisaar

Another great day for Tallinn enthusiasts!

firstoff, a unseen event in our region: A building, in this case a gas station or something near tallinns harbour isnt allowed to be built, because it was too LOW :) great to see people want it to be a City, not a village, good!

second off, the lrt thing(actually more like a new tramroute, although with Modern trams!) to Lasnamäe has taken off again! Estimated cost is 800 mio kroons - about 54 mio euro. If all goes superb: 3-4 years to get money from EU, 1 year for it to be built, superb :)
So pretty much if Eu gave us the financing, woohoo, we would have a sustainable, reliable and fast masstransit to the biggest suburb Lasnamäe in 5 years!!! :eek2: :cheers:

I remember you explained the need for that tram line a while back, ch1le, and you showed it very nicely. :okay:

So let's hope the EU will open their big pockets for this system soon! :)

Seems that this project is going to get some new wind under it's wings. This quote is taken from the developers webpage. Anyone know more about this? Or better pictures?



The Rotermann Quarter is located in the heart of the city of Tallinn, in the territory between the Old Town, the sea and the business district. It is the best region for development in Tallinn, where the excellent site, old industrial structures which have found a new function and high-quality modern architecture, form an attractive environment.

In 2005, Rotermann City OÜ, a subsidiary of Manutent OÜ, will start developing business premises and apartment buildings with a total area of 50,000 m² in the Rotermann Quarter.

The project will last for four years.

http://www.manutent.ee/index.php?go=file&data_field=big_pic&db=projekt&id=10

I will use Juno'res pix to illustrate, man his pics are the greatest!!!! Hope u dont mind.
so once again pic by Juno're from that place /\
http://www.hot.ee/skyscrapers/tallinn2/8.jpg
and another one
http://www.hot.ee/skyscrapers/tallinn2/11.jpg
Its very close to the city, pretty much next to the most modern street ;)

ok, this thing took me breathless.. really, im breathless still...
The 35 storey scraper proposed in tallinn (almost next to twins) May be Approved tommorow. ok PLz guy hold your breath if this goes through...
Im frigin breathless... 3 Uc buildings by 2005?! (currently UC twin 1 and 2) FRIGIN AWESOME :dance: :dance: :dance: :dance:

Sounds very good. I really hope that it will be approved. :)

That would be awesome...now all we have to do is wate..(thats not so easy at all:))

its very hard to wait. Ok, say it is approved tommorow... construction should start somewhere 2004/2005 and it will be built in a year (from earlyer sources).. so wed have 3 new scrapers: 35 storey, 30 and 28 storey buildings ready by 2006, pretty much at the same time! That, my dear friends, is kick-ass. 3 new scrapers, tall ones... its like the awesome Ncc in Vilnius! (they built Municipality, ET, and EA) Freaky!

Any renderings?
It would be nice to see how it affects to the city skyline.

@Estboy
Yes, waiting is very hard :yes:

hmm.. renders not available at the moment. I saw one in the news, mby i will see them tommorow if it is APPROVED, because the newpapers are gona praize it anyways :)! Should get some renders or something tommorow, or Thursday

The 35-storey project waiting for approval is the Tartu Rd. 15 one.

Here is a rendering from the time it still had 40 floors:
http://static.epl.ee/g/pics/pic06yauU.jpg

I sure hope it'll be built....:)

That's just awesome! I can't believe the speed everything is happening there! "Ok, say it is approved tommorow... construction should start somewhere 2004/2005 and it will be built in a year (from earlyer sources)" *dreams of that attitude to move here* :). I'm very happy that it's Tallinn that is booming with scrapers, i don't have to travel that far to see some scrapers since they don't wanna build them here :D

Thanks Renx
Looks interesting. :)

Let's keep our fingers crossed for that tower to be built!!!

And in another news: Osten Tor - project is ready to start building phase. According to Eesti Päevaleht-paper it will be the largest postcommunism built residential building in Estonia. It won't be very high though...

http://www.3elevanti.ee/ostentor/

http://www.3elevanti.ee/propic/osten.jpg

wow... great news for Tallinn... !!!!! I just wish they would build something curvy for a change, but not another highrise box ;) But still- any box looks good when it's 35 storey high :D

Woh!!! Go go :) I rather like that design proposal...
Waiting for the news

wow... great news for Tallinn... !!!!! I just wish they would build something curvy for a change, but not another highrise box ;) But still- any box looks good when it's 35 storey high :D

LOL, vytauc! :) Another highrise box indeed, but it's nice and tall! ;)

And back to one of my main gripes about contemporary architecture: once again there's a flat roof :rant: in the lower portion of Osten Tor which Sten introduces. Have so may of today's architects forgotten (or never learned ?) how much a roof can add to the overall presence of a building? :bash:

Absolutely agree with you, WH and vytauc! :cheers: Aren't those people tired of "boxing", or is that because of the shape of their heads, hmm? Anyway, great tall news for Tallinn! (though as a modest boy, I'd say "size isn't everything", hehe)

If I understood correctly the official documents, then it seems like the tower has been approved today!! Yeehaaa!!

has it?!! its not in the news at this moment, nor in tallinn homepage. we will have to wait til evening. Its possible it will be built, because i saw photographers from press snooping around Twins(what got their crane now, now it will just take time for the crane to raize), im sure the photographers are collecting material for tommorows paper, where they will talk about that 35storey scraper and the twins!

I red the "linnavalitsuse istungite dokumendist" that it was approved, but it was'nt presented there very clearly...too much jibberish. The meeting was held at 10 am today.

Here's the page in estonian, and the high-rise plan is nr.20:
http://www.tallinnlv.ee/lvistung/bin/agendalist1.asp?meeting=278

ok, u made my day, it says it was accepted.

1. Võtta vastu Tartu mnt 15 krundi detailplaneering, Arhitektuuribüroo Künnapu & Padrik AS töö nr 0120.
2. Säästva Arengu ja Planeerimise Ametil ning Kesklinna Valitsusel korraldada detailplaneeringu avalik väljapanek.

from the document. frigin awesome, also the detailplan will be shon to public, that means.. u know, renders n shit! :D
time to celebrate guys!

yeeaahhh!:cool::)
It was about time, I must say.

If they could only approve some more now...:cheers:

its actually very very weird that they approved it, because from what i read was that all scraper plans were frozen until spring - when the general plan and rules for scrapers would have been created. But tartu mnt 15 still got through, that is frigin awesome, now well just have to wait when is it going to be UC, i already mailed the architects asking for some information, hope they do give me feedback...

:banana: 3 new 100+ Skyscrapers!
That's something

:cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :booze: :booze: :dance: :dance: :cheers2: :cheers2:

YEp!

:okay:

hey do you guys get it why there is a asian person in every computer simulated image of a new or planned buildin in front of the building....its really creepy

hehe, seems like a good time to congrat you guys *sigh*

mwuah:D yep :)

I am really glad that Tallinn is doing things. Impatiently waiting when Riga will go from endless planning and stacking heaps of highrise projects to real building...

Hi all,

my name in Gunnar Düvel and I am one of the incoming students from Germany studying this semester at the EBS here in Tallinn.

Now I have to write in essay about the local transportation facilities in my hometown Hamburg and I would like to compare it with the local transportation facilities in Tallinn. Therefore I would like you to ask answering me the following questions, as you are so active here and I am sure you will be able to help me:

1. Are you satisfied with the public transportation system in Tallinn?

2. Is the state subsidise the public transport or does the companies earn enough money to pay everything by itself?

3. Is there any regulation how many cabs are allowed in Tallinn and any regulation concerning the prices?

4. Are there any special traffic projects running or is anything plannend?

Thank you very much in advance for your help. I would appreciate a quick reply.

With kind regards

Gunnar Düvel

first off, Welcome! Wow, a german studying in tallinn, freaky! How is it?
now for the topic:
1 No
2. Company doesnt earn much, only from ads, subsisdies are low
3. Rofl, dunno cabs, prices? Humm...
4. Traffic um yes, city is constantly planning new roads, crossings, oversections so on.

35 storey scraper seems to be just 114.5 Meters.

@ ch1le: Don't worry, I've been observing Tallinn development thread very closely. ;) Believe me, when our south neighbour is making such great plans for the future, I certainly want to know what's going on. :okay:

dishonestCongratulations, Ests :) Way to go not

:P too i smell jelousy ? :D

hehe, yeah, kinda

no seriously, this is great news for Tallinn

its the only city that can stop Vilnius monopoly in Northern Europe in terms of high-rises and skylines

its the only city that can stop Vilnius monopoly in Northern Europe in terms of high-rises and skylines

Come on, Blimey, everybody knows that the Bergen, Stockholm and Copenhagen projects are bigger than those of Vilnius. I mean, even Central Pasila project is actually A LOT bigger than any Vilnius project, only the buildings have some actual floorspace, and not just height. We all know that Lithuania can't compete financially with any scandinavian nation, that's why you are building slim towers - to look bigger than what you actually are. Do you think that Finland is not building high-rises at the same rate as Lithuania because we can't? We don't have to prove anything to anyone, or in other words, we are secure about our selves, unlike some forumers here.

(insert a number of smiling emoticons here)

Hi all,

my name in Gunnar Düvel and I am one of the incoming students from Germany studying this semester at the EBS here in Tallinn.

Now I have to write in essay about the local transportation facilities in my hometown Hamburg and I would like to compare it with the local transportation facilities in Tallinn. Therefore I would like you to ask answering me the following questions, as you are so active here and I am sure you will be able to help me:

1. Are you satisfied with the public transportation system in Tallinn?

2. Is the state subsidise the public transport or does the companies earn enough money to pay everything by itself?

3. Is there any regulation how many cabs are allowed in Tallinn and any regulation concerning the prices?

4. Are there any special traffic projects running or is anything plannend?

Thank you very much in advance for your help. I would appreciate a quick reply.

With kind regards

Gunnar Düvel

Hi Gunnar!:)

I hope you'll enjoy your stay here. One of my friends also goes to EBS.:cool:

As of your questions:

1. Are you satisfied with the public transportation system in Tallinn?
Mostly, yes. The two main companies, the TAK (autobuses) and the TTTK (trams and trolleybuses) are both acquiring new vehicles, which is very good. We've totally gotten rid of the old Soviet buses (though I miss them sometimes:D) and for the last three years, we've gotten new trollyebuses each year as well.
The line network is also satisfactory, although some improvements could be made, like adding tram and trolleybus lines.
The problem of asocial persons in the PT is somewhat of a problem, though, but I've seen them less currently (and I use PT a lot).
There are also electric trains and shuttle-bus lines.

2. Is the state subsidise the public transport or does the companies earn enough money to pay everything by itself?
Both companies get dotations from the city, the income from the ticket sale isn't enough to sustain them. (Btw, I think this is a good thing, because otherwise the prices would rise to an astronomical level for Estonians)

3. Is there any regulation how many cabs are allowed in Tallinn and any regulation concerning the prices?
There are some but the're not entirely followed all the time;). Pirate cabs can be found but they mostly like to rip off tourists. I don't think the prices are regulated, there are just so many companies and private cab owners in Tallinn. I know it was estimated there are 1500 taxis in Tallinn.

4. Are there any special traffic projects running or is anything plannend?
The extension of the Laagna Road was recently completed but the building of the Rahu Road, which will connect the Laagna Road to the Peterburi Road, is under construction.
There is a plan to reconstruct the Järvevana Road-Tartu Road crossing and to rebuild the Haabersti ringway into a three-level crossing.
There are probably some more, these just came to my mind right now:).

@Moolio: LOL! This forum is about high-rises and skylines if you have not noticed it yet and I can't really see a skyline in Helsinki. We all know how Baltic states are backward and how Scandinavia is advanced and we don't argue about it - it's the fact. You can build high-rises but on the other hand - you can't. Not because of economical situation - only because that there are too many restrictions and city planners in Helsinki are rather conservative. But when it is allowed to build some high-rise in Helsinki - they are not bigger than the ones in Vilnius (I mean floorspace) for example - Cirrus. And there are big but not high projects in Vilnius (more than high ones ofcourse). Btw if you want to compare projects in Pasila then you can compare them with new city center in Vilnius ;) (total area of planned buildings: 3 124 000 sq.m.). And don't worry bigger projects will come in the future too.

Come on, Blimey, everybody knows that the Bergen, Stockholm and Copenhagen projects are bigger than those of Vilnius. I mean, even Central Pasila project is actually A LOT bigger than any Vilnius project, only the buildings have some actual floorspace, and not just height. We all know that Lithuania can't compete financially with any scandinavian nation, that's why you are building slim towers - to look bigger than what you actually are. Do you think that Finland is not building high-rises at the same rate as Lithuania because we can't? We don't have to prove anything to anyone, or in other words, we are secure about our selves, unlike some forumers here.

(insert a number of smiling emoticons here)

Didnt your mother tell you not to post online when youre experiencing your period?

Now if you read my post again, i never said that Lithuania or Estonia are ahead of any Scandinavian country in terms of economy, in fact i never mentioned economy. I was talking about high-rises and skylines, which you might have suspected when i said:

in terms of high-rises and skylines

Okey guys calm down, no need to argue. :)

Blimey, first of all, I didn't talk anything about Estonia (they are not rubbing it in the same way as some Lithuanians, when it comes to city development). Secondly the number of hi-rises, and the skyline of Vilnius IS NOT that big. You have ET, EA and a couple of other hi-rises in NCC. Plus, a huge, highly uncertain plan to build towers for companies that probably have smaller income together than any of Fortum, Nokia or StoraEnso alone. You have a lot of c-blocks, but the number of office blocks is a whole another story. The whole monopoly thing was just a tiny bit too outrageous. You have to hand it to the Estonians, they have DEFINITE plans, not just show-off exhibitions.

Thirdly, I mentioned economy simply because I wanted make sure you understand why we, in scandinavia are not building office clusters. We've had big businesses here for a while now, hence most of the needed office/retail space is already there. Still, in the next twenty years Helsinki region will grow by a quarter million people, and at same time the attitude towards hi-rises is changing to much more positive direction. So, my point is that while Vilnius can't grow a lot more (AFAIK Lithuania's population is not growing), Helsinki and many other cities in N-Europe can. Think about it. How many of the planned towers will be realized in Vilnius, and why?

@Moolio: Well it's simple to answer it for you - because Lithuania is backward and Lithuanian companies are small - there is much place to grow - and that's what is going on today. And about Estonian and Lithuanian DEFINITE plans - according to them in Vilnius there will be more floorspace but in Tallinn there will be more height.

And btw just look at what it is today because it's too hard to talk about future and futures positive attitue to high-rises in Finland :D.

Talking about population growth tallinn should hit half a million in 20-30 years...

And btw just look at what it is today because it's too hard to talk about future and futures positive attitue to high-rises in Finland :D.

Edd, I am not talking about next week, or month or even year. The fact is that Helsinki metro is ALREADY far too spread-out, even the politicians realize that. If we're going take another 250'000 people in side the metro area, THE ONLY CHOICE IS TO START CONSTRUCTING MUCH MORE DENSELY. Besides, in Helsinki, the attitudes ARE changing. Recent studies confirm that PERIOD

EDIT: CIRRUS IS NOT AN OFFICE BUILDING.

EDIT II: Don't give me the number of square metres that are planned to Vilnius, show me realizations.

I've look the existing high-rise situation purely in quantative terms, Vilnius isn't the leading "skyscraper capital". Soviet era residential buildings aside, Vilnius isn't ahead Copenhagen, Stockholm or Helsinki in what comes to number of +70m buildings.

oh my god blimey you're an idiot.





@Gunnar - i think you've got the answers to 3 of your questions so i'll answer to the 1st. am i satisfied with the public transport in Tallinn? - yes, i am. but of course, nothing's perfect. there are some things that do annoy me. for example there are some older buses that don't look as nice as newer ones (from inside) and in the mornings when there are lots of passengers, there could be more buses on line cause sometimes the buses get so filled with people that it's hard to even breathe... overall the public transport has changed drastically in the last few years and it's getting better with every year.

Talking about population growth tallinn should hit half a million in 20-30 years...


hehe, in the Tallinn VisionConference they said that we'll probably reach 500 000
in 10 years! :)

Existing +70m buildings in Vilnius

ET
Municipality Building
Reval Hotel Lietuva
EA
+ maybe few others (?)


And this is as far as I'm going to touch this discussion.

Moolio, don't get upset, there is a very nice plan of Helsinki's future skyline, just look at this! :D
http://img69.exs.cx/img69/856/helsinki_in_the_future.jpg

@John: A skyline like that would, I'm sure, go through in Vilnius, not in Helsinki. ET's very nice and EA too, but nobody want's to see them in an architectural context like that. Think a for a while before you go doing stupid "snaps" like that.

@Jarmo... was it 10 years really?!! Dam i wanted to go to that conference, but i got too lil information on it. We should actually still, make a thread with conclusions from that conference, im sure our Helsinki buddies would like see our dear majors and so on plans :)

yeah, they even talked about erecting a big monument for Finns! :) cool. i was there, by the way, even skipped school to see it. maybe i'll post a thread when i've got more time!

hehe, in the Tallinn VisionConference they said that we'll probably reach 500 000
in 10 years! :)

Were you there yourself? :) Did they discuss any other interesting things?

Edit: heh, made this post at the same time as you did yours

""Think a for a while before you go doing stupid "snaps" like that.""

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v152/SdeS0/renders/HelsinkiSkyline.jpgBy me :D

Out of what Fifth World country will these 250k new Helsinki citizens come?;)

yeah, they even talked about erecting a big monument for Finns! :) cool. i was there, by the way, even skipped school to see it. maybe i'll post a thread when i've got more time!

Heh, I hope the monument isn't about a Finn holding a bottle of Viru valge. :D

EDIT: @KM: The level of urbanization of Finland is not the same in most western world countries. THEY COME FROM THE COUNTRY SIDE, where do you think?

yeah, they even talked about erecting a big monument for Finns! :) cool. i was there, by the way, even skipped school to see it. maybe i'll post a thread when i've got more time!

u lucky bastard :) I would have skipped school too, but i didnt know that it was going to start so early... shiiiitttt! :bash: :bash:
@KM, well, people form other parts of Finland move to Helsinki...

Children!!! This is Tallin developement thread! Not that I'm a mod or anything, but lets continue this dick-contest here: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p=2444677#post2444677

@Moolio: I believe that it'll be like you have just said - I only said that it's very hard to say how everything will change in the future in all our S&B countries - especially if we talk about skylines.
@Ober: Ok, ok, Helsinki is the skyscrapercapital if you want it - you see I'm not a child so it's not so important to me and that's why I'm not going to search for some ways to prove it (like in your way: 70m+, not commies, ...). Just now I started to realise that all this time for some forumers from Finland it was really hard to see when something about high-rises and skylines from Vilnius was posted on these forums and especially with the words "capital", "better", "higher"... I see that such posts touched childish ego of some forumers. So as I said before it is not really important to me and from now on I can call Helsinki or some other city as a skyscrapercapital if you wish.
So far I posted my opinion and I also many times said that in the near future it's a big posibility that Tallinn will have the best skyline - it's not hard for me to say this because for me the skyline or some other great title given on ssc by some forumers like "skyscrapercity" means nothing - the most important thing to me is to learn about different projects and to discuss them or argue (in a good way) with others.

Edd. Dunno what you just sayd, but you certainly have the biggest ego in this forum.

Edd. Dunno what you just sayd, but you certainly have the biggest ego in this forum.
Really? And why is that so?

@ Edd

Please, don't misuse my words. I never claimed Hki is the "skyscraper capital". It's never been one and will never be.

Children!!! This is Tallin developement thread! Not that I'm a mod or anything, but lets continue this dick-contest here: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p=2444677#post2444677
EXactly!

@others: Spare us from reading this thread in anticipation of news about the development in Tallinn every time you just smack each other around.

My God... some people try to ruin this thread

What is, btw, the exact loation of Osten Tor? I think I have some vague idea

An image from today's SL Õhtuleht newspaper:
http://www.sloleht.ee/foto/21102004/l-torn.jpg

In my opinion it's a hideous building, there might be something exciting.

Oberleutnant: http://www.tallinn.ee/eng/kaart?aadress=&MapZoom=2&MapTool=1&MapSize=1&x=541936&y=6586440&label=P%E4rnu+mnt+110

On that picture it looks very colourful :) The design is rather bland but the building itself will give the necessary accent to the skyline of Tallinn.

ok, Junore made it first, the building will be 120m.. on that render its a bit transparent, thats why it looks as if colorful! BUt as you can see its very frigin tall! :D :D :D Gongratz tallinn! :D in 2 years we will have 3 new 100+ scrapers, PLus it has a spire or something at the top! makeing they height even more! :D :eek2:

Blimey, first of all, I didn't talk anything about Estonia (they are not rubbing it in the same way as some Lithuanians, when it comes to city development). Secondly the number of hi-rises, and the skyline of Vilnius IS NOT that big. You have ET, EA and a couple of other hi-rises in NCC. Plus, a huge, highly uncertain plan to build towers for companies that probably have smaller income together than any of Fortum, Nokia or StoraEnso alone. You have a lot of c-blocks, but the number of office blocks is a whole another story. The whole monopoly thing was just a tiny bit too outrageous. You have to hand it to the Estonians, they have DEFINITE plans, not just show-off exhibitions.

Thirdly, I mentioned economy simply because I wanted make sure you understand why we, in scandinavia are not building office clusters. We've had big businesses here for a while now, hence most of the needed office/retail space is already there. Still, in the next twenty years Helsinki region will grow by a quarter million people, and at same time the attitude towards hi-rises is changing to much more positive direction. So, my point is that while Vilnius can't grow a lot more (AFAIK Lithuania's population is not growing), Helsinki and many other cities in N-Europe can. Think about it. How many of the planned towers will be realized in Vilnius, and why?


Nokia, Fortum or StoraEnso can have the highest profits in the world and build the hugest office blocks with the most office space in the world that doesnt make them high-rises.
And you should calm down, i was talking about high-rises where Vilnius clearly leads in northern Europe, despite of what companies are located in those high-rises or what economic situation of Lithuania is and you assaulted me with all this irrelevant BS.

@jarmo: why did you just call me an idiot? :?

Hi guys,

thank you very much for your support and you all should be lucky to live in such an developing and exciting town like Tallinn.

Ma armastan Eesti ja Tallinn! :)

Gunnar

35 storey scraper seems to be just 114.5 Meters.
Only that? :D :D :D

Blimey, Vilnius is a beautiful city. My point the whole time was that people in this forum don't need external help to recognize that, and you certainly are not going to make new fans here by throwing unjustified arguments like "Vilnius monopolizes over N-Europe in terms of the best skylines". IMO EA, for instance, is one of the nicest towers in Europe, and ET is great as well, but people here - including me - realize that. There is no need to rub it in.

@Moolio You exagerated a little bit, this was told by blimey in an unserious way ;)

its the only city that can stop Vilnius monopoly in Northern Europe in terms of high-rises and skylines

I think Moolio just doesn't get (or pretends he doesn't) the humour of some people here. Anyway I kinda like to see people arguing, keep the good job guys :okay:

Only that? :D :D :D

no, 120 actually, it was changed :D

^^^ Too bad, it will ruin the Tallinn skyline badly ;) :D (j/k)

@Mantaz: I stand by my argument. If you say that "its [Tallinn] the only city that can stop Vilnius monopoly in Northern Europe in terms of high-rises and skylines" then the presupposition is that presently Vilnius does monopolize over N-Europe.

Now, I'm very well aware that Lithuania is an economy of very strong growth, and I am sure that it is capable of producing big private sector companies. Yesterday, however, I implied that Lithuania is backward nation in terms of finances, which is not true, and for that I apologize. Lithuania (among the two other Baltic countries) manages to attract more and more employees from Scandinavia by the month.

And I do have a sense humour, but you need to ask yourselves this: is it 100% humour, when you go bashing each other, even if the posts are full of emoticons?

Just leave it like it is - no need to agrue it:

Baltics - fast development in all sectors, including real estate&highrises, very fast growing economies
Scandics - strong and steady economies, slow but steady development in all sectors


This explains it all, and so it will remain in coming 10-20 years.

no, 120 actually, it was changed :D

so is it 114 or 120? :)

Usually residential buildings have lower floor-to-floor height than office buildings (usually it's 3m) so 120m for a 35 storey residential is hardly credible. Of course it might have a higher floor-to-floor height what would explain everything.

just to compare, the planned 34 storey apartment tower in Klaipeda will be only 102m high (floor-to-floor height 3m).

Alright, Moolio.
I also appologize for being an asshole.
Peace.

rr, sry guys if i was a ahole. OK dunno from paper i read they agreed on height of 120m. In the paper they also mention the highest tower in tallinn atm - the 103 m Radisson, then they said that UC tornimäe might be ready before Tartu mnt 15.

they height thing is debatable, from the some detailplan i read 114.5, from the news that they agreed on 120m(but the text is very confusing)

This is tallinn development tread, but i just wanted to answer this, sorry.

Moolio please don't talk about our economic or/and demografic problems, this forum is not for talk's like that, and you know you can really make some people angry. We all know our problems, but please leave them to us.

Old cellulosis plant in tallinn is beeing renovated, it will have Apartments and offices. The place is perfect - not far from centre, trams run near, train station near, busstation near, airport near - wicked. Plus kickass views(i took panorama from there)
heres a pic of it still in operation, a long time ago, ofcourse, it was in pretty bad shape even then.
http://www.hansaco.ee/raudtee/pildid_suur/tselluloos1.JPG
part of it has already been renovated and is for Recreational use. But the main, tall structure is still in poor shape, so it will be renovated.
sorry i have no renders of how it will look like. Its great that tallinn is renovating these old industrial parks, and houses. Rotermann quarter is also beeing renovated!

yep yep, near it (it will be 15storeys) a 12 storey(60m!) and a 9 storey midrise were approved, and a 8 storey one is also projected nearby! The area is going to look fabulous!'

Weird in my mind, 12 storey building will be 60m - hen osten tor 15 storeys just 55.5m

12 storeys and 60m? That's strange. Is it an office or residential building? In any case 60m is too many.
BCC office building in Vilnius is 50m high and it has 13 storeys and Hanner building has 15 storeys and is 56m high. No way a 12 storey building could be 60m high.

it was in the daily... pretty fking weird i say

12 storeys and 60m? That's strange. Is it an office or residential building? In any case 60m is too many.
BCC office building in Vilnius is 50m high and it has 13 storeys and Hanner building has 15 storeys and is 56m high. No way a 12 storey building could be 60m high.
Unless it has a tall antenna :D

:tiasd:

usually our press never adds antennas to height - The structural antenna on tartu mnt 15(35storeys, approved) will take total height to 145 :P

Or maybe that's the case as with Victoria Tower? Officially it has 16 floors but is 76.3m high?

Yeah, 12 floors and 60 meters is possible.
The high-rise building proposed to the Kamppi area in Helsinki had 11 floors and it was 60m tall, but was never approved.

Great news!!
12,9,8 + Osten Tor...cool...

Btw Ch1le, where did you get this info?

Edit:I found it;)

oh and guys, i suggest you check Estboys signature, go to tallinn diagrams, and see what Junore has Drawnup! :D

That's a nice lineup indeed, chi1le, thanks! :)

Beautiful work, Juno Re! :wave:

i kinda promised to add Tartu mnt 15 to my render at tallinn's tallest thread. (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=121449) but i will add the whole render here since, well, tornimäe wont be tallinn's tallest for long(or for anytime).

http://img57.exs.cx/img57/2921/10651.jpg

Now that's what I call a skyline! Looks just awesome!

cant wait til 2006! :D

:uh: :omg: :eek: :master:

:eek2: :drool:

Wow... Very impressive.

:)Fine! Would like to make such renderings myself for Riga... but too little visual material.

Very nice photo manipulation though I don't think such pictures should be called as renderings.

Can't wait to see those towers rising and rising and rising even more!!

sten ur right :) Photo manipulation is the word, although, rendering is more comfortable :)

Really awesome. And residential tower looks very tall... :drool:

Tallinn is cheaper for me to get to than Turku or Tampere, so I'm not complaining because in order to see skyscrapers I only need to take a boat there. Yeah, I'm waiting for these two (three) as much as you guys in Tln. :)

KUMU
(KUnsti|MUuseum - Art Museum)


http://www.kesseum.ee/files/circulos_small2.jpg


Construction: 2002 - September 9th, 2005
Opening: December 2005


http://www.online.ee/~martin.ruubel/images/KessumValjast.07.jpg

http://www.online.ee/~martin.ruubel/images/KesseumValjast.23.jpg

http://www.online.ee/~martin.ruubel/images/KessumValjast.05.jpg

http://www.online.ee/~martin.ruubel/images/KessumValjast.09.jpg

http://www.online.ee/~martin.ruubel/images/KessumValjast.11.jpg

http://www.online.ee/~martin.ruubel/images/KessumValjast.12.jpg



-Floor area: 23 000 square metres
-Floors: 8
-Rooms: 360
-The building was planned by finnish architect Pekka Vapaavuori in 1993
-The Estonian Art Museum has 64 624 pieces of art
-In the neighbourhood of the museum, there are the residence of the Estonian president, Kadrioru Palace (Foreign Art Museum), the house of the Russian czar Peter I, and Kadriorg park
-Total cost: 53 000 000 Euros



http://www.online.ee/~martin.ruubel/images/KesseumSEEST.03.jpg

http://www.online.ee/~martin.ruubel/images/KesseumSEEST.04.jpg

http://www.online.ee/~martin.ruubel/images/KesseumSEEST.08.jpg

http://www.online.ee/~martin.ruubel/images/KesseumSEEST.10.jpg

http://www.online.ee/~martin.ruubel/images/KesseumSEEST.11.jpg

http://www.online.ee/~martin.ruubel/images/KesseumSEEST.18.jpg

http://www.online.ee/~martin.ruubel/images/KesseumSEEST.19.jpg

http://www.online.ee/~martin.ruubel/images/KesseumSEEST.23.jpg

http://www.online.ee/~martin.ruubel/images/KesseumSEEST.25.jpg











http://static.epl.ee/g/pics/picbASmeU.jpg
Eesti Päevaleht

Reminds me little bit of Van Gogh Museum in Amsterdam....

Looks really good though.

JUst what I wanted to say - reminds Van Gogh museum inside. And this is good. Lucky you! You will get this museum earlier than us...

Oh, what did i come across today! The elusive scraper plans across the street from olümpia Liivalaia - Juhkentali st.
The scraper 114m :naughty: would contain offices (seems shorter in renders:tongue: ) Complex also includes a 13 storey tower and some shorter ones.
27 storeys.
The design is quite interesting imo. The colors, dunno, very weird, i think they made that just for fun in the renders, Note the ladas in the pics :D :D Times were quite different then!
http://img66.exs.cx/img66/5333/perspektiivstalin.jpg
http://img66.exs.cx/img66/7890/perspektiivliival.jpg
http://img66.exs.cx/img66/1882/perspektiivliivaia.jpg
hehe things have changed:
http://img66.exs.cx/img66/6785/perspektiiv.jpg
and in this one you can get a quick view of the main skyscraper district in tallinn(in 2001, i guess)boy how things have changed!!!!, note the parking lot on the place where twins are beeing built
http://img66.exs.cx/img66/6890/muahfunny.jpg

I really dont know about the condition of the plans now.. seems they are searching for investors or something...
Hope u appreciate it!

^^^ I think I saw this some 2 years ago, would be interesting to know about the current state tho :yes:

kinda popped to my head that it might have been shown here before, but of well, might as well add them to this thread!

i just had to do a nother Photo manipulation, but remember, that i dont know any dates about this building or even if it will ever get built, so ill call this
"Possible skyline of tallinn somewhere in the future v1"
http://img22.exs.cx/img22/830/hmmmm1.jpg

I think that I like it quite well. Very interesting - did not know about this project!