City plans for downtown trail route in Tampa
By Jared Leone, Times Staff Writer
In Print: Friday, July 9, 2010

TAMPA — Can you imagine biking down Bayshore Boulevard toward downtown, crossing the river, then riding along a nearly 2-mile trail to Ybor City?

Carrie Wildes can.

"We are very active," Wildes said of she and her husband, David, who live in Seminole Heights. "We like to bike, and living where we do there's not a lot of places that are easily accessible," she said. "That would be actually perfect for long-run training or biking."

Wildes may be in luck, because city and county officials hope to transform a 1.7-mile space under the Lee Roy Selmon Crosstown Expressway into a keystone urban trail that would tie together Bayshore, the Riverwalk, Channel District and Ybor City.

The Metropolitan Planning Organization paid $50,000 to Renaissance Planning Group to study the feasibility and determine the preferred route for what is being called the Selmon Greenway project. The report is expected to be complete by October. A public meeting and another update is planned for Aug. 17.

Alan Steinbeck, the project manager, updated members of the Hillsborough County Livable Roadways Committee about the project at a June 23 meeting.

"We are not just concerned with the greenway itself, but how it connects downtown," Steinbeck said.

The Selmon Greenway would be built in stages as part of other road projects, including a planned expressway expansion. Because the project is in its infancy, officials do not have cost estimates.

Ideally, the greenway would be a linear park with benches, water fountains and exercise equipment along a 15-foot-wide, tree-lined path. It would connect to the Riverwalk downtown, the Meridian Street Greenway, Bayshore Boulevard, the TECO Line Streetcar System and the Marion Street Transitway. The preliminary route shows the route stretching across property currently used for public parking downtown.

The study will determine ways to minimize the loss of parking spaces.

Former City Council member Linda Saul-Sena said getting all the government agencies on board and seeing the project through could be a boon to downtown.

"This is such a tremendous project," said Saul-Sena, who is running for the Hillsborough County Commission.

Wildes, 31, agrees. She likes the idea of an urban trail. She does marathon training three or four times a week — typically at the Upper Tampa Bay trail or Flatwoods Park in New Tampa.

"We would love to have something like that for sure," Wildes said about a long-range urban pathway. "It's much more interesting than running on a trail that's lined with trees forever."

http://www.tampabay.com/news/growth/city-plans-for-downtown-trail-route-in-tampa/1107502

Me like :)

Me too. And it'll be quite shaded being under the Crosstown which is always a plus during the 75% of the year.

But why the obsession with saving surface parking spaces? Its not as if there aren't tons of existing surface parking available, not should an excellent opportunity for a cool public use be passed up to save some shaded parking.

But why the obsession with saving surface parking spaces? Its not as if there aren't tons of existing surface parking available, not should an excellent opportunity for a cool public use be passed up to save some shaded parking.
Exactly I liked the idea until I read that part now I can see it being half assed like everything else here.

Just think how good it could be if done well. Not even done good or great, just settle for well/good enough. You know a mix of concrete ribbons, brick pavers, some planting areas for ferns or other indirect light plants, maybe a sculpture item or three, some benches (with a center armrest of course). Nothing crazy. It could be quite nice and make the area FEEL substantially better. It might even serve its primary purpose which is to give a recreational opportunity that runs from Channelside all the freaking way to Gandy. But nope, gotta save the parking spaces because we design cities for our conveyances and not the actual people who use the city.

Yea, I would love to see the joggers crossing the on ramps . . .

Pretty much everything on the sides of the Crosstown or under it is either parking or buildings. I'm pretty sure the city won't pay to demolish some buildings to spare parking lots (although being Tampa who knows). Screw the parking lots, I rarely see them at full capacity anyways besides something going on at the Forum or Gasparilla. And with the new parking garage, there's about 500 parking spaces you can eliminate from the huge area of parking lots that exist.

My guess is the owners of the parking lots don't want to give up their land since they could probably get a hell alot more from a developer for some skyscraper than from the county or city for some trail.

Now that I see how stupid the city can be, I dont think this is even gonna get built. Everyone is going to squabble over something so puny that it'll never get off the ground.

Orlando has a similar project being built in phases -- one section is already completed. Once complete, it will run from Church Street Station to Winter Park along a designated 2.1 mile track (part of which is currently Gertrude's Walk and the other the former Dinky Rail Line). The city received a stimulus grant to build it.

The Church Street through downtown Orlando section will be u/c in a few months: http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/sports_thechaingang/2010/07/1-2m-awarded-for-orlando-urban-trail.html

And of course people are against the project: http://www.wftv.com/news/24183876/detail.html

The full project here: http://downtownorlando.com/sites/default/files/Orlando%20Urban%20Trail.pdf

These types of projects greatly enhance the uniqueness and friendliness of a downtown area -- I do hope that Tampa realizes this opportunity and expands upon it.

The Orlando project has almost no resemblance to what is reported in the article. The article is about a "trail" under the expressway - which will be a very nice, shaded rest area for all the homeless downtown - just like the old days. Moreover, since the idea is to fill the parking lots NOT under the crosstown with actual buildings, I am not clear why we would eliminate those spaces. A typical Tampa concept without contemplation - like narrowing Ashley and two waying all the streets downtown - like more people will put their offices in a place that is REALLY hard to drive around.

Not sure what kind of marathon runner is going to want to stop for all the crosswalks on our small downtown blocks

Narrowing streets and turning one way streets into two way has actually proven to successfully reinvigorate them. It brings human scale back to streets, instead of one way thoroughfare madness. One way streets, unless there is a uniform grid, make is much more difficult to navigate an urban space.

HArd to reinvigorate them when there are no tenants in the buildings. The grid was pretty uniform. Now it is all messed up. This is not some small shopping area - it is downtown and the city needs downtown to flow based on the way it is laid out. One size does not fit all.

It is a typical example of Tampa importing an idea without thinking it through.

I keep forgetting Tampa is so special and needs special considerations. I'm amazed the rest of the world seems to make it.

HArd to reinvigorate them when there are no tenants in the buildings. The grid was pretty uniform. Now it is all messed up. This is not some small shopping area - it is downtown and the city needs downtown to flow based on the way it is laid out. One size does not fit all.

It is a typical example of Tampa importing an idea without thinking it through.

What you are not understanding is that one way streets are a part of the problem in downtown Tampa. It has created an environment for cars, not pedestrians. If the logic is that cars need to get through downtown quickly, as opposed to get around downtown easily, then by all means, one way your streets into oblivion. However, if you want to create an environment that slows cars down, like say South Beach, makes it more of a "cruising" mentality that interacts with storefronts and pedestrians, then you need to two way the streets that have no business being a one way thoroughfare.

In this instance, Tampa is actually doing the right thing.

It will be especially great now that st pete has dumped all their crackheads on tampa.

Nothing new in the article except that 50 people got to see what it could look like and the MPO saying they might have a estimate of the price of the project by the end of the year.

http://www.tampabay.com/news/growth/new-bicycle-path-in-tampa-could-link-ybor-city-to-bayshore-boulevard/1116213

Why does it need workout equipment though? I've seen a couple cities plan workout equipment, like a enclosed glass structure with dumbells, with their trail plans. I just don't understand the point of it.

What you are not understanding is that one way streets are a part of the problem in downtown Tampa. It has created an environment for cars, not pedestrians. If the logic is that cars need to get through downtown quickly, as opposed to get around downtown easily, then by all means, one way your streets into oblivion. However, if you want to create an environment that slows cars down, like say South Beach, makes it more of a "cruising" mentality that interacts with storefronts and pedestrians, then you need to two way the streets that have no business being a one way thoroughfare.

In this instance, Tampa is actually doing the right thing.

I did not notice this earlier. You propose a theory - I state a fact. It is not just through downtown - it is around downtown. I don't want cruising. I want to be able to walk to something interesting or drive to something interesting. South Beach is not downtown.

HArd to reinvigorate them when there are no tenants in the buildings. The grid was pretty uniform.

Its also hard when there aren't any buildings there.

I do not know how 2 way streets are safer than 1 way to a pedestrian...
Looking one way vs having to look BOTH ways and still risk getting blind sided. At least with a one way the chances of getting blind sided are much less.
I'd just make the one way streets more narrow like Orlando's Orange Ave.

I think most of us also realize that walking around in downtown Tampa in the middle of the summer during the day is like walking around in hell. What about ways we can create more shade like Marion St? Or like most of the roads in downtown Orlando. I think that the constant high heat and humidity make urbanism in Tampa a little more difficult than it is up north where it isn't as hot as long.

I keep forgetting Tampa is so special and needs special considerations. I'm amazed the rest of the world seems to make it.

First, there are one way roads in other places. Second, each place has its own circumstances. To graft it completely is stupid and something Tampa has done for a long time - an aquarium here, a performing arts center there, a "festival marketplace" here, etc.

As for shade - I am all for it. But the city just copies other places and plants palm tress everywhere. . .

And, btw, two laning the streets is removing a lot of street parking helping to develop more surface parking lots. . . but I'm sure that unintended consequence is taken care of in the all the theories.

Its a simple choice, design for people or design for cars. If you want the actual users of the area to be encouraged to use it, you slow down traffic where ever possible and make it as pedestrian & bike friendly as possible. Having 3 lane racetracks throughout downtown guarantees that pedestrians will be less likely to enjoy the area. Ideally traffic should be creeping through DT.

Just because you eliminate street parking, doesn't mean you get more surface parking lots. Sure when the economy sucks landowners will sit on their properties, but as the economy improves buildings will be built and garages will be incorporated into them. Its not a direct correlation.

Pretty much everything you said is silly. If all DT traffic is a crawl, no one will come DT and there will be no one there. IF people spend more time DT trying to get to their offices, they will put their offices elsewhere. Without demand all you will get is surface lots. Frankly, it is not a black and white choice. It is a gray area - which makes it hard. All the dogmatic black and white solutions of the past have been failures. . .

Funny, these places have one way streets:
Washington DC: http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&q=washington+dc+&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Washington,+District+of+Columbia&ll=38.898414,-77.044909&spn=0.009168,0.01929&z=16

Midtown Manhattan: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=manhattan&sll=38.898414,-77.044909&sspn=0.009168,0.01929&g=Washington,+District+of+Columbia&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Manhattan,+New+York&ll=40.750996,-73.980603&spn=0.017848,0.038581&z=15

Atlanta: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=atlanta,+ga&sll=38.898414,-77.044909&sspn=0.009168,0.01929&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Atlanta,+Fulton,+Georgia&ll=33.754656,-84.388132&spn=0.009794,0.01929&z=16

Boston: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=boston&sll=43.654537,-79.383495&sspn=0.008523,0.01929&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Boston,+Suffolk,+Massachusetts&ll=42.357339,-71.067982&spn=0.01741,0.038581&z=15

London: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=london&sll=42.357339,-71.067982&sspn=0.01741,0.038581&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=London,+United+Kingdom&ll=51.495973,-0.142822&spn=0.014668,0.038581&z=15

Sure, they all have transit, but so what? That was never made a condition of the need to eliminate all one way streets - and frankly is even better proof of the silliness of the argument.

Downtown Selmon Greenway clears planning hurdle
By GEORGE WILKENS | The Tampa Tribune
Published: January 3, 2011

TAMPA - A plan to create a recreational trail beneath and adjacent to the Selmon Crosstown Expressway through downtown Tampa has cleared a feasibility hurdle but faces an uphill fight for funding.

The proposal is to create a multi-use trail like those in downtown Boston, Minneapolis and other cities. Such a path for cyclists and pedestrians also is prudent in Tampa, according to a study by a consulting firm hired by the Hillsborough County Metropolitan Planning Organization. At its Dec. 14 meeting, the MPO supported the feasibility plan's findings.

Now the Tampa-Hillsborough Expressway Authority will seek a way to pay for the Selmon Greenway.

The owner-operator of a downtown bicycle shop who is familiar with the trail proposal said it would be an excellent link among downtown, Ybor City, Hyde Park, the Channel District and beyond.

"Everyone is extremely excited about it," said Kellie Cyr, of City Bike Tampa, citing buzz among customers and other cyclists.

There are no trails downtown or nearby, said Cyr, who has participated in meetings about the greenway and believes it will take time for the proposal to gain widespread acceptance. She is optimistic: "Everything will come to fruition, but you've got to have funding for it," she said.

An expressway authority spokeswoman said the agency hopes to pay for the greenway by incorporating it into a broader project – widening a stretch of the 30-year-old Selmon toll road to six lanes and replacing the decking on the existing four lanes.

Using a $75 million lawsuit settlement related to the 2004 collapse of the expressway's reversible lanes, the authority will restructure its debt, spokeswoman Susan Chrzan said. The authority's board voted to use that money to pay down long-term debt, allowing it to borrow $300 million to $400 million for other projects.

"We're going to issue new bonds so (we) can do the widening of the area downtown, from about 19th Street to the river; we call it the viaduct," Chrzan said. That could happen as early as this spring, at which time the viaduct project contractor would be selected.

"Were still are in the planning stage; we're still in the trying-to-find-the-money stage," Chrzan said. "We're going to try and see if we can get money within that bond structure" to include the greenway, a project of about $2 million.

"We're hoping we can do other things" under the debt restructuring and bond issue, she said. "But we're not yet ready to say it's a go."

Other funding sources will be in the authority's sights. "We'll probably be going and asking for help to get the money," Chrzan said. "That might be city, county, federal, wherever we can get it; grants bonds, whatever."

The expressway authority proposed the multi-use trail more than a decade ago, a 15-foot-wide urban path to improve pedestrian and bicycle access to the Downtown Riverwalk, Meridian Street Greenway, Bayshore Boulevard and the Channel District. The trail also is intended to increase downtown park space and add art and educational elements.

"We think its great idea," Chrzan said. "It's not that it's a dead issue; it's that we have to find the money for it."

The executive summary of the proposed Selmon Greenway calls it, "a unique opportunity to include a walking/cycling facility in a highway reconstruction project."

Planners envision the 1.7-mile greenway including benches, fountains and outdoor exercise equipment, plus lighting for safety and aesthetics.

Boston's Rose Kennedy Greenway was built where Interstate 93 once ran before the Big Dig project took the highway underground. In Minneapolis, the Midtown Greenway is a 5.5-mile stretch through downtown along an old rail line.

In Tampa, much of the right of way beneath the toll road is used for public parking. The feasibility study shows the greenway would eliminate 86 of those 973 spaces, but they won't be missed, Karen Kress, director of transportation and planning for the Tampa Downtown Partnership, has said.

Downtown parking garages have 22,000 spaces and on-street parking in the area accommodates another 2,000 vehicles. The downtown group is squarely behind the proposal and has received no negative comments about it.

http://www2.tbo.com/content/2011/jan/03/030727/selmon-greenway-clears-planning-hurdle/news-breaking/

Boston's Rose Kennedy Greenway was built where Interstate 93 once ran before the Big Dig project took the highway underground. In Minneapolis, the Midtown Greenway is a 5.5-mile stretch through downtown along an old rail line.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but these examples are not covered by an elevated highway. I think this will be just another example of halk-assed copying of a successful idea from somewhere else.

Hey I have an idea... let's put a linear park in the sewer!