Another one of my rants...

[kyle]

And today - The "International" Court in Hague.

Just when I thought the world can't be more hypocritical, I discovered it can.

First of all, who are they, people that never saw terror in their life, people that don't have to fight terror all the time, people that their government doesn't need to spend millions on defense programs because of the terror, who are they to decide whether we can or can't built a wall to defend ourselfs?
How can a nation that suffers no terror, can tell a nation that fights it for 56, to simply remove the only thing currently preventing that terror?
For the first time in my whole life, I actually wanted some people to die.
I was sad for the US, for Spain, For Indonesia, for Turkey, and for Iraq with their terrorist attacks, but this time, I won't be sad if someone attacks France, Belgium, Holland or the other nations that seem to decide for us what to do.

Secondly, the whole event was false.
Not only that Israel never took part in the debate, all of those who did take part in it were of the Palestinian side - What kind of a debate is this?
Not only that, but I heard claims there that are false, false, and false.
I heard the Palestinian representative says "Over those years, 2,000 Palestinians died while only 400 Israelis died, and most of them were sodiers".
I mean, What the Fock!?
make that number 1,000 Israelis, 98% of them civilians, and 2,000 Palestinains, 76% of them members of terrorist organizations, and other civilians who were killed by activities of their own side!

Thirdly, I don't know what Europeans think, but I believe most Israelis don't care of what the so-called "international community" says.
We're pissed of what they say, but we realized, after all those years, that they are all so biased, and so anti-Israel, that their opinion doesn't matter.
It's like Bin-Laden telling a democratic nation leader that he's doing wrong with his nation - We simply don't care.

[fandango]

You're a bunch of land theives. they were right to oppose you building a fence on someone else's property. if you think the palestinian population is too dangerous, don't build settlements all over the west bank.

[Dale]

You're a bunch of land theives. they were right to oppose you building a fence on someone else's property. if you think the palestinian population is too dangerous, don't build settlements all over the west bank.

You never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity, do you fandango ?

[fandango]

Do they use double negatives in the bible?

[kyle]

You're a bunch of land theives. they were right to oppose you building a fence on someone else's property. if you think the palestinian population is too dangerous, don't build settlements all over the west bank.

The moment the first bomb exploded between Israeli civilians, they lost their right to tell us where to build that fence.
They can't attack us for years and years on one hand, and on the other, damand us not to build a fence on their land preventing those attacks.
The fence is a direct result of the terrorist activities, and there's no place to argue about it.

Also, the settlements are already there, and if they want to us to remove them, they should realize that it won't happen while they're bombing us.
Maybe they still don't understand that we won't remove settlements while they attack us over and over again.
As said, about millions of times, it was the POL's job to fight these terrorists, and guess what - they didn't.

One more thing, I just saw some of the text that was read by one of the judges a few days ago - he said something like "Israel suffers attacks against its civilians, and it has the right to defend itself, but only with means allowed by the international law".
Now, don't you think that's pretty stupid?
I mean, if you agree with us that we have the right to defend ourselfs of such terrorism, why judging us? Judge those terrorists! You can't get them? your problem, but don't blame it on us.
We prefer making sure that Israeli civilians stay alive.

[Dale]

Do they use double negatives in the bible?

It's not a double negative. I was just being witty. :)

[Dubai_Boy]

Poor Old Zio Israel

[kyle]

Poor Old Zio Israel

Old?

[Dale]

Poor Old Zio Israel

"Zio" ? Oh-me-oh-my-oh ! :)

[fandango]

Israel kills more innocent people violates far more human rights than the terrorists. You've been doing it non stop for 35 years far before the terrorists existed. you simply want their land and will use any excuse to get it. you people are incredibly racist and sick. you force palestinians to live in poverty so jews can have swimming pools. No one besides insane/cynical americans support you.

[kyle]

Israel kills more innocent people violates far more human rights than the terrorists. You've been doing it non stop for 35 years far before the terrorists existed. you simply want their land and will use any excuse to get it. you people are incredibly racist and sick. you force palestinians to live in poverty so jews can have swimming pools. No one besides insane/cynical americans support you.

You're inventing stuff again now.

The terrorists (I'm talking about arab terrorism against Zionists) existed more than 35 years, it existed since about 1921.

"Israel kills more innocent people"
The majority of Palestinian deaths in the intifada are deaths of terrorist organization members, that hide between civilians, put bombs in their own houses, and use children as shields (many times, a lead terrorist wasn't killed in an Israeli action because troops didn't want to shoot at him while he was with children all around him).

And also you ignore known facts - We gave back the Sinai, a terroritoy bigger than Israel itself. How does that go along with your "you simply want land" claim?
Besides, we didn't willingly occupied the west bank.
The six day war started between Israel and Egypt.
Jordan ignored the message sent to them, asking them not to interfere, but they interfered, bombed our cities, and prepared to invade.
The west bank was occupied in a war forces against us.
It was a Jordanian territory before that.

Who's racist and sick? Doesn't it seem strange to you that Israel is the only country in the mid-east where Arab women can vote?
Doesn't it seem strange that Arabs here live better than Jews that lived in other mid-eastern countries?

"you force palestinians to live in poverty so jews can have swimming pools"
What the...? Who told you that? For once, seriously, for once, show actuall proof for your claims!
Palestinians live in poverty because the money we gave them once was spent by the PLO on weapons and terrorist training, while they forgot about their people, they live in poverty because the weapong we gave their security forces was used against us instead of against their criminal cases, they live in poverty because they let terrorist hide in their houses and shoot from their houses, and then they cry when the house is demolished.

[Dubai_Boy]

Funny thing is Kyle knows what he is saying is 100% not true and i know he does

[TeLaVivi]

Fandango is back ! I was starting to think that you left for good ;) , well, it was nice while it lasted, welcome back anyway .
Any chance for Dubai_boy to disappear for a month or two ? what do you say D.B. ? don't you need a vacation ?

[kyle]

Funny thing is Kyle knows what he is saying is 100% not true and i know he does

Why do you think you can tell what I know or what I don't know?

Please, instead of just releasing claims into the air like Fandango, explain what's wrong with the post above...

[Dale]

fandango has clearly never taken the Dale Carnegie course.

[fandango]

The welfare of palestinians is israel's responsibility, not the PLO. The innocent deaths of palestinians are your fault

Oxfam reports that the occupying Power extracts more than 85% of the water from the West Bank aquifer despite the fact that it is the Palestinians who are entitled to this water. Palestine is also entitled to the Gaza aquifer and the water from the Jordon River; however, irrigated farmland along the Jordon River has been declared a closed military area, which Palestinians cannot use.

Along the Gaza strip, there are 6,429 Israeli settlers occupying 45% of the land, while 1 million Palestinians live on the remainder. This results in a population density for the Palestinians that is one of the highest in the world, and almost 100 times greater than that of the Israelis. Meanwhile, statistics suggest that Israelis receive and use five times more water than Palestinians.

Under international law, as the occupying Power, the State of Israel bears an obligation to facilitate and ensure access to food and water to the civilian Palestinian population as well as to facilitate access for impartial organizations providing emergency assistance. A year ago last December, the occupying army exploded a warehouse containing 537 tons of food aide largely funded by the European Union.

It is clear from the UN Report on the Right to Food that instead of meeting their obligation, the State of Israel has done everything in its power to deny access of food and water to the Palestinians. The result is that acute malnutrition and dehydration conditions exist for many if not most Palestinians.

These conditions render the population especially vulnerable to diseases, some of which are supplied through water-borne carriers found in the substandard water resources provided. Israeli policies also target the hope of Palestine, the youngest, most vulnerable children who will never thrive, because they have been horribly, irreversibly damaged by withholding the basics of life, the right to food and water.

I trust you pigs sleep well at night knowing the water that comes out of your tap is stolen from the palestinians, who you prevent from getting enough.

Arabs in israel are treated like dirt. there are plenty of countries where they're far better off. like almost all of them, except for places that have been invaded by israel or america.

and speaking of lead terrorists, i remember when you blew up an apartment building full of children because you thought he was inside.

[Dubai_Boy]

The welfare of palestinians is israel's responsibility, not the PLO. The innocent deaths of palestinians are your fault

Oxfam reports that the occupying Power extracts more than 85% of the water from the West Bank aquifer despite the fact that it is the Palestinians who are entitled to this water. Palestine is also entitled to the Gaza aquifer and the water from the Jordon River; however, irrigated farmland along the Jordon River has been declared a closed military area, which Palestinians cannot use.

Along the Gaza strip, there are 6,429 Israeli settlers occupying 45% of the land, while 1 million Palestinians live on the remainder. This results in a population density for the Palestinians that is one of the highest in the world, and almost 100 times greater than that of the Israelis. Meanwhile, statistics suggest that Israelis receive and use five times more water than Palestinians.

Under international law, as the occupying Power, the State of Israel bears an obligation to facilitate and ensure access to food and water to the civilian Palestinian population as well as to facilitate access for impartial organizations providing emergency assistance. A year ago last December, the occupying army exploded a warehouse containing 537 tons of food aide largely funded by the European Union.

It is clear from the UN Report on the Right to Food that instead of meeting their obligation, the State of Israel has done everything in its power to deny access of food and water to the Palestinians. The result is that acute malnutrition and dehydration conditions exist for many if not most Palestinians.

These conditions render the population especially vulnerable to diseases, some of which are supplied through water-borne carriers found in the substandard water resources provided. Israeli policies also target the hope of Palestine, the youngest, most vulnerable children who will never thrive, because they have been horribly, irreversibly damaged by withholding the basics of life, the right to food and water.

I trust you pigs sleep well at night knowing the water that comes out of your tap is stolen from the palestinians, who you prevent from getting enough.

Arabs in israel are treated like dirt. there are plenty of countries where they're far better off. like almost all of them, except for places that have been invaded by israel or america.

and speaking of lead terrorists, i remember when you blew up an apartment building full of children because you thought he was inside.


Its so SAD seeing someone caring so much about the palastenians when i`m sitting here as an arab and muslim trying to forget the conflict because i have no hope in our rulers

salam

[Christopher1]

Dubai_boy, you dont give a shit about the palestinians, you just hate the jews and the west. You, sitting in your oil rich nation, wouldnt get an ounce of dirt under your fingernail if it meant helping a Palestinian, you filthy fuck... It truly is amazing to me that people and, in particular, muslims, can have so much contempt toward the israeli army, and israelis in general for a handful of palestinian muslim “brothers” who get sporadically killed despite their probable associations with terrorism and prior murderous engagements.

I tell you, no other group of people has gone through as much shit throughout history as the Jews. Through some amazing twist of fate they finally got their own homeland back, the land which is Rightfully theirs! and you think the Israelis are gona let a bunch of whinging moaning arabs ruin it all! nah dont think so!!..

Fagdango, its funny how you dont talk about palestinians KILLING THEIR OWN PEOPLE JUST TO CREATE ANTI-ISRAEL PROPAGANDA!! Israel has offered peace deals to the Palestinians on many occasions, but guess what, no its not good enough. I tell you what, the Israelis have learnt from their past.. They have the power and authority to defend THEIR COUNTRY, and they are going to do it! Whether you like it or not, Israel will be here forever.

[kyle]

The welfare of palestinians is israel's responsibility, not the PLO. The innocent deaths of palestinians are your fault

Oh it is the PLO's responsibility, since the Oslo agreement.
We gave them A LOT of money to do so, but they didn't use it.

Oxfam reports that the occupying Power extracts more than 85% of the water from the West Bank aquifer despite the fact that it is the Palestinians who are entitled to this water. Palestine is also entitled to the Gaza aquifer and the water from the Jordon River; however, irrigated farmland along the Jordon River has been declared a closed military area, which Palestinians cannot use.

Firstly, why are the Palestinians entitled to the water?
It was Jordan's, but now it's in Israel's hand. No Palestinain ever controlled these sources.
Secondly, most of the water used by Israel are from the Kineret.

Along the Gaza strip, there are 6,429 Israeli settlers occupying 45% of the land, while 1 million Palestinians live on the remainder. This results in a population density for the Palestinians that is one of the highest in the world, and almost 100 times greater than that of the Israelis. Meanwhile, statistics suggest that Israelis receive and use five times more water than Palestinians.

That's why Sharon decided to disengage from Gaza, but it seems organizations like Hamas and their friends don't want their Palestinian brothers to use the water, because they're against the plan. pitty.

Under international law, as the occupying Power, the State of Israel bears an obligation to facilitate and ensure access to food and water to the civilian Palestinian population as well as to facilitate access for impartial organizations providing emergency assistance. A year ago last December, the occupying army exploded a warehouse containing 537 tons of food aide largely funded by the European Union.

Under International law - a nation has the right to defend itself from terrorism, and I don't know what you think, but saving lives is more important than making life better for others.
First check the cause for the occupation, and not the result of it.
Also, the territories are officially, not occupied, but disputed, since there was never a Palestinian state.
But even if we put that aside, the Palestinian are not isolated from food.
The Ramallah market, for example, is full of both people and food.
About that incident, I've found some pages about it when I searched with google, and it seems that A) the building was not blown up, but was damaged during the fighting in the city, and B) the IDF was not aware of the existance of such amounts of supplies in the building.

It is clear from the UN Report on the Right to Food that instead of meeting their obligation, the State of Israel has done everything in its power to deny access of food and water to the Palestinians. The result is that acute malnutrition and dehydration conditions exist for many if not most Palestinians.

Really? When did Israel do that?

These conditions render the population especially vulnerable to diseases, some of which are supplied through water-borne carriers found in the substandard water resources provided. Israeli policies also target the hope of Palestine, the youngest, most vulnerable children who will never thrive, because they have been horribly, irreversibly damaged by withholding the basics of life, the right to food and water.

This claim is a part of the one above it, and there's no reason for Israel to do "everything in its power" to deny access. Please show me the sources for this claim.
Besides, the Palestinian abuse their children much more than they say we do.
When they send their child to a terrorist kindergarten, where he's taught to use an AK-47, where he's told that being a Sahid is a duty, and killing jews everywhere is needed, that's called child abuse.

I trust you pigs sleep well at night knowing the water that comes out of your tap is stolen from the palestinians, who you prevent from getting enough.

Stop using such words.
If you want people to read your posts, I suggest you don't call them pigs...

Arabs in israel are treated like dirt. there are plenty of countries where they're far better off. like almost all of them, except for places that have been invaded by israel or america.

Why do you think so? Are you an Arab-Israeli that you know so much about how they're treated?
This year, for example, the education system for the Arab sector was given much more money than the jewish sector.
At least 10 more new schools were opened, and that's just the example for education...
There are arab Knesset members, Arabs that hold official and public jobs, TV programs for, and by, Arabs. Who told you they're treated like dirt?
And again, the only place where Arab women can vote is Israel.
And yes, they live better than jews that lived in Arab countries.

and speaking of lead terrorists, i remember when you blew up an apartment building full of children because you thought he was inside.

Firstly, He was inside.
Secondly, an investigation was made after the incident, and it seems there was a problem with the intelligence, that presented the building as empty for the pilots.
Thirdly, So it happened, but the IDF never did that again:
In the middles of 2003, there was a meeting of 4 of the lead Hamas members in Gaza, in a single building. One 1,000kg bomb could've destroy the building, and the buildings around it. But the IDF wanted to avoid the killing of civilains, so it used just a 250kg bomb, that just destroyed the empty 3rd floor, leaving the 4 Hamas members alive and a bit wounded.
Also, Achmed Yassin was killed about 2 weeks after the IDF first tried to kill him - Each time civilians were all around him so the operations were cancelled.
These are just 2 examples, there are many more.

[kyle]

caring so much about the palastenians

If you're talking about Fandango, you probably mean - completely forgetting about what they have done over the years, being completely anti-Israeli, being completely biased and hypocritical, claiming that there's only one side to the conflict, trying to find Israel's fault in e-v-e-r-y f-u-c-k-i-n-g i-s-s-u-e, blaiming Israelis for e-v-e-r-y f-u-c-k-i-n-g t-h-i-n-g, supporing terrorism that targets civilians alone, ignoring the fact that the so-called international community is full of double standards, and actually supporting any Arab attempt to destroy Israel...

[Dubai_Boy]

Christopher welcome to the forums and calm down man :)

[kyle]

Christopher welcome to the forums and calm down man :)

I'm sure he's calm. In any case, he's right.

[everythingisone]

Israel kills more innocent people violates far more human rights than the terrorists. You've been doing it non stop for 35 years far before the terrorists existed. you simply want their land and will use any excuse to get it. you people are incredibly racist and sick. you force palestinians to live in poverty so jews can have swimming pools. No one besides insane/cynical americans support you.
What a complete idiot you are. Learn history, moron. Rather than spewing your venemous hatred. How do you live with your self? It must be terrible being you.

[Benni]

Gee, fandangos great/stupid "arguments" are better than any sit-com, I've ever seen...

Well, the fence...I think, even if Israel would have built it on the "official" boarders, it would still be criticized by the court/world. So,...Just get rid of these damned settlements! They seem to be the major problem!

[Dale]

Gee, fandangos great/stupid "arguments" are better than any sit-com, I've ever seen...

Well, the fence...I think, even if Israel would have built it on the "official" boarders, it would still be criticized by the court/world. So,...Just get rid of these damned settlements! They seem to be the major problem!

Nah, there are Palestinians that would just find another excuse, don't you think ?

[Dale]

Is there another national forum where people from other nations come in to attack the host nation like the Israeli forum ? I don't even see this kind of phenomenon on U.S. forums, and america is purportedly the Great Satan.

[Benni]

Nah, there are Palestinians that would just find another excuse, don't you think ?

For sure! But those settlememts are (one of) the most familiar reasons for the conflict, aren't they? If they would be gone, it would be a + for Israel's worldwide crdit, because it made the first step. Maybe, if the Palestinias would still make row, the world - at least a part of it - could realize, who's the actual trouble-maker.

[Dale]

For sure! But those settlememts are (one of) the most familiar reasons for the conflict, aren't they? If they would be gone, it would be a + for Israel's worldwide crdit, because it made the first step. Maybe, if the Palestinias would still make row, the world - at least a part of it - could realize, who's the actual trouble-maker.

Yes, I agree that removal of the settlements would amount to a nice concession on the part of Israel. But of course this would not be sufficient for those many Palestinians who would not grant Israel even a right to exist.

Now if the International community were more supportive of Israel, and less demanding of Israel, and expected more of the Palestinians ...

[BulldozerGirl]

Jerusalem has to remain under international control. Tel Aviv and whatever else can stay the capital of Israel in an independent Israeli state. The Palestinians can have their own state after settlements are removed, and then they should build this wall between the borders of the two states, and one all around Jerusalem, if for no beneficial reason, then just for decor.

Concerning voting of Arab women in Israel, there is no voting in most Arab countries so whether or not women are allowed to vote is not an issue. As for Christopher1's comment about Arabs not helping Palestinians and just hating Israelis, I agree that many Arabs hate Israel and they can be hot-headed when it comes to any discussion relating to Israel and they will curse it repeatedly. But there is a lot of help for Palestinians, and the "oil rich" Gulf states have donated a lot to Palestinian charities and built homes/schools/hospitals for them. There are also many Palestinians who live and work in the Gulf countries.

There are many mistakes on the Arab side, including the terrorist acts of some Palestinians, and the unwillingness of some Arabs to calmly deal with things. But on the Israeli side as well, the mistakes that are done should also be admitted, and some of the excuses that some of you come up with are just as ridiculous as what people like smussuw or whoever says. Israel did win its land in several wars, and right now, it owns it, but looking back at history, there are many small and big things that occurred that are ignored, which really give the Palestinians some truth in their claims. Neither of you are innocent or completely correct.

[RoM]

Bulldozer girl...well said, I agree with you (except for the fence building issue) i dont belive a fence can be a definite solution...

[everythingisone]

Jerusalem has to remain under international control. Tel Aviv and whatever else can stay the capital of Israel in an independent Israeli state. The Palestinians can have their own state after settlements are removed, and then they should build this wall between the borders of the two states, and one all around Jerusalem, if for no beneficial reason, then just for decor.

Concerning voting of Arab women in Israel, there is no voting in most Arab countries so whether or not women are allowed to vote is not an issue. As for Christopher1's comment about Arabs not helping Palestinians and just hating Israelis, I agree that many Arabs hate Israel and they can be hot-headed when it comes to any discussion relating to Israel and they will curse it repeatedly. But there is a lot of help for Palestinians, and the "oil rich" Gulf states have donated a lot to Palestinian charities and built homes/schools/hospitals for them. There are also many Palestinians who live and work in the Gulf countries.

There are many mistakes on the Arab side, including the terrorist acts of some Palestinians, and the unwillingness of some Arabs to calmly deal with things. But on the Israeli side as well, the mistakes that are done should also be admitted, and some of the excuses that some of you come up with are just as ridiculous as what people like smussuw or whoever says. Israel did win its land in several wars, and right now, it owns it, but looking back at history, there are many small and big things that occurred that are ignored, which really give the Palestinians some truth in their claims. Neither of you are innocent or completely correct.
BDG, why should Jerusalem be under international control? It is the capitol of Israel. The Holy sites where never as open and as available under Arab rule. Why should Israel give up its right to govern itself in its own capitol. No other country is expected to do this.

[BulldozerGirl]

everythingisone - Because of the controversy over the religious importance of Jerusalem for Jews, Christians, and Muslims, it is best if it remains under international control to avoid any violence that might result from claims of someone taking over control of a holy site or denying access..etc, especially when the holy site is one and the same.

[Benni]

Does the Pope complain about the fact, that Jerusalem is the capital of a Jewish state? No! The only, who make trouble about that fact are - again - the Muslims! If they would behave like humans, it would probably be no problem, if they'd come to their religios sites, just like Christians from all over the world pilgimage to all their churches on Easter, Christmas or Pentecost...Or whenever they think to go there.

[everythingisone]

everythingisone - Because of the controversy over the religious importance of Jerusalem for Jews, Christians, and Muslims, it is best if it remains under international control to avoid any violence that might result from claims of someone taking over control of a holy site or denying access..etc, especially when the holy site is one and the same.
BDG, your thoight is an idealogical one. The Jewish presence in Jerusalem, which is, without question, the capitol of Israel, has opened up the availability to all 3 major religous sites. Tha was not the case under Arab rule. I do not understand any pragmatic reason to make jerusalem an internationally-controlled city. The only reason to do so is political. And I am against it as a political "solution". Israel should never relinguish control of its capitol for political reasons.

[SpotlessMind]

Does the Pope complain about the fact, that Jerusalem is the capital of a Jewish state? No! The only, who make trouble about that fact are - again - the Muslims! If they would behave like humans, it would probably be no problem, if they'd come to their religios sites, just like Christians from all over the world pilgimage to all their churches on Easter, Christmas or Pentecost...Or whenever they think to go there.

It makes me think you have no idea what you're talking about because there is no way you can compare Christians in the region with the Palestinians who you here loosely present as Muslims. All Muslims behave like animals?

[everythingisone]

Does the Pope complain about the fact, that Jerusalem is the capital of a Jewish state? No! The only, who make trouble about that fact are - again - the Muslims! If they would behave like humans, it would probably be no problem, if they'd come to their religios sites, just like Christians from all over the world pilgimage to all their churches on Easter, Christmas or Pentecost...Or whenever they think to go there.
Of course the pope complains deeply about the Jewishness of Jerusalem. It is a contradiction to his belief. But he has to be politically correct, even though he doe not want to be. At least this pope travelled to Israel during the Jewish period of governing Israel. Other popes ignored the jewish precence in Israel. But it bothers the pope, none the less. Jewish control of Israel goes against centuries of christian teaching, centuries of christian theology, centuries of islamic teaching. All the leaders of these groups struggle to find an answer for Israel's existence. christians, and catholics in particular, have come to grips with it, at least outwardly. But muslims struggle with it and fight it every day. That is the way with both these groups, each to their own kind.