This has been on the radar for a long time...

From what I've been reading over on UT, this is zoned for a 37s mixed use tower and Fairmont owns the land.. They are looking at a Spring 2010 launch.

From MikeToronto$$ On UT:

Application has been submitted for mixed use Hotel, Residential, Office and Path on this site. I have word from the city. Working on getting the document

Location is the northeast corner of Bremner and Lower Simcoe. Hopefully this will be as attractive as Fairmont's Pacific Rim in Vancouver. Anyone willing to bet on the name? Fairmont Lake Ontario? Fairmont Toronto Centre? Fairmont Union Station?

Just realized that Fairmont also owns Raffles and Swissotel.. Maybe one of the brands will take over this building and not Fairmont proper.

Just realized that Fairmont also owns Raffles and Swissotel.. Maybe one of the brands will take over this building and not Fairmont proper.

They do? I know that Toronto based Fairmont was bought by wealthy foreigners. Are you sure that Raffles and Swissotel are part of Fairmont or are all 3 just owned by the same holding company?

For instance, the Weston family own Holt Renfrew, Selfridge's, and Brown Thomas, but those British Isles retailers aren't owned by Holts. As far as I know, Holts isn't the parent firm. Likewise, Raffles and Swissotel may simply be affiliated with Fairmont due to a common owner.

They do? I know that Toronto based Fairmont was bought by wealthy foreigners. Are you sure that Raffles and Swissotel are part of Fairmont or are all 3 just owned by the same holding company?

Fairmont is part of Fairmont-Raffles (HQed in Toronto and owned by a variety of holding firms). Fairmont-Raffles has under their banner the Fairmont, Raffles and Swissotel brands.

It is great to see this dead zone come to life. I hate wandering around that area of the CN Tower as it has so much potential, and yet is so blah.

It is great to see this dead zone come to life. I hate wandering around that area of the CN Tower as it has so much potential, and yet is so blah.

Definitely the area is becoming something. A few more bars, restaurants and retail and we'll have a 24/7 district coming to fruition.

I generally get bored in that vicinity and walk over to Steamwhistle for some freebie refreshments! :cheers2:

the best part about flying porter from the island airport:

UNLIMITED FREE TALLBOYS OF STEAMWHISTLE

the best part about flying porter from the island airport:

UNLIMITED FREE TALLBOYS OF STEAMWHISTLE

Are you serious? That is outstanding! :drool:

WEll, I guess this has to do with the fact I am coming to town!!! and when I come, many more will follow, so they should be able to accomodate us! LOL

God, please let it be a Neo-Classical, Art-Deco, flashy, bright, tall building with towers and gargoyls and ... and ... and...

Thank you GOD! :nuts:

God, please let it be a Neo-Classical, Art-Deco, flashy, bright, tall building with towers and gargoyls and ... and ... and...

Thank you GOD! :nuts:

My dear, we are talking about Toronto here. lol I can't see that happening. Odds are, it will be a glass box with some grey metal or spadrel trim. (I'm not saying I want that, just that odds are that's what will be built)

This area is developing quickly. I think the rail museum across the street is quite cool. I especially like the fact that it will have a miniature train running around it, as well as some handsome full-sized trains all around the park. It adds a nice character to the neighbourhood. This new hotel should ramp up the pedestrian traffic.

God, I hope this hotel is not another glass box with grey trim.:ohno:

Well, seeing as none of us are psychic, maybe we should just wait and see rather than automatically assuming it will be something ugly! :yes: :)

Well, seeing as none of us are psychic, maybe we should just wait and see rather than automatically assuming it will be something ugly! :yes: :)

Taller, I've got news for you, I am PSYCHIC! I had a psychic vision that Olympic Spirit would fail, that Metropolis would be crap, that Corus would be anything but an "icon" and that Ripley's Aquarium will be more of a joke, than a real aquarium. Most of my psychic visions have sadly come true, Ripley's, I guess we will see. Remember, I was THE ONLY person on here who predicted that Ignatieff would FAIL! (So far, so good, thank you very much lol) For some reason I'm always good at predicting when a friend will get dumped by their partners, I just get the vibe.

You damn right I'm psychic!

LOL! :rofl:
Molly, maybe you are to blame!! Your visions come true!!
You see "Dead Projects"!!

Molly, where is that railway museum? Does it really exists and in TO?
And could you please indicate the above mentioned projects that never took off or failed?
Since I don't live there, I can not follow everything. :-)
glad you mention this, but do I hear that there are or were plans to build an aquarium in Toronto?!
I love Marine Biology among many other stuff like trains, cars, technology etc ( I hear The Beam Doc again asking if I am really a girl!!!??? Hahahaha)
but an aquarium like for example Chicago's Shedd or Monterey Bay's in Toronto will just be awesome.
Having said that, is there any science and tech museum in TO too?
I admit, the little child in me is still sooooo alive.
Corus is a Dutch/British consurtium/company, they produce steel
and their headquarter is based near Rotterdam. Do they have an office there?
And why Olympic spirit is failing?!
LOL
so many interesting issues, :-)
oh btw, since I don't believe in Gods, I did pray to him!!!! LOL

Corus may be the name of a Steel company, but in Canada there is also a media company named Corus:

http://content.edgar-online.com/edgar_conv_img/2008/04/10/0001279569-08-000457_CORUS_LOGO.JPG


As for the Fairmont structure, this sounds very exciting, and I'm hoping for some sort of masonry, perhaps something riffing off of Union Station and the Royal York? A glass structure would be less desirable.

This has been on the radar for a long time...

From what I've been reading over on UT, this is zoned for a 37s mixed use tower and Fairmont owns the land.. They are looking at a Spring 2010 launch.

From MikeToronto$$ On UT:

Application has been submitted for mixed use Hotel, Residential, Office and Path on this site. I have word from the city. Working on getting the document

Location is the northeast corner of Bremner and Lower Simcoe. Hopefully this will be as attractive as Fairmont's Pacific Rim in Vancouver. Anyone willing to bet on the name? Fairmont Lake Ontario? Fairmont Toronto Centre? Fairmont Union Station?

Fairmont Algonquin Castle?!

Yup, there's been buzz about this on UT for a while now. Too bad it's only 37 stories, I would hope that they would build something taller... but I guess the economics of it is that they can only get something so big.

Once this area is fully built in 5 years, it's going to be amazing.

Yup, there's been buzz about this on UT for a while now. Too bad it's only 37 stories, I would hope that they would build something taller... but I guess the economics of it is that they can only get something so big.

Once this area is fully built in 5 years, it's going to be amazing.

37 stories is what it is zoned for, but almost everything built in the area has far surpassed its zoning, so don't be surprised if it ends up being higher. Also, rumour is that it will be a condo-hotel-office mix, in which case, you'd think they'd need more floors to really fit in all three uses properly.

Yes, the zoning south of the rail line has been completely ignored. This was supposed to be where the CBD expanded to, but they bent the rules to allow residential: Maple Leaf I & II, ICE I & II, and a few other minor buildings. I prefer mixed use, but they've severely limited options for future office tower expansion in the central core. The upside is that Toronto will probably have to start building major office towers throughout the downtown rather than concentrating them as has been the case up till now.

37 floors may be what this is zoned for, but zoning regulations don't seem to matter down here.

PS. Mollywood, what do your psychic powers predict for me in 2010? :colgate:

PS. Mollywood, what do your psychic powers predict for me in 2010? :colgate:

Don't ask!! ;)

Yes, the zoning south of the rail line has been completely ignored. This was supposed to be where the CBD expanded to, but they bent the rules to allow residential: Maple Leaf I & II, ICE I & II, and a few other minor buildings. I prefer mixed use, but they've severely limited options for future office tower expansion in the central core. The upside is that Toronto will probably have to start building major office towers throughout the downtown rather than concentrating them as has been the case up till now.

37 floors may be what this is zoned for, but zoning regulations don't seem to matter down here.

PS. Mollywood, what do your psychic powers predict for me in 2010? :colgate:

So far I haven't had an psychic visions (or vibes, as I call it) but if I get one, I'll let you know.

Now as for Charlotte, well, I have been getting a few vibes. lol For some reason I've been getting a strong "psychic vibe" that Charlotte, was in deed a man. :) Now maybe she might just be a woman with a lot of male hormones. lol Then again, my vibe could be totally wrong. Taller, didn't you meet Charlotte? Want to fill us in? :) On rare occasions my psychic vibe fails me, especially from such far distances. lol

Charlotte, are you a gay man? (or is that just wishful thinking, on my part:lol:) Feel free to tell me to "piss off, wanker".

Molly, where is that railway museum? Does it really exists and in TO?
And could you please indicate the above mentioned projects that never took off or failed?
Since I don't live there, I can not follow everything. :-)
glad you mention this, but do I hear that there are or were plans to build an aquarium in Toronto?!
I love Marine Biology among many other stuff like trains, cars, technology etc ( I hear The Beam Doc again asking if I am really a girl!!!??? Hahahaha)
but an aquarium like for example Chicago's Shedd or Monterey Bay's in Toronto will just be awesome.
Having said that, is there any science and tech museum in TO too?
I admit, the little child in me is still sooooo alive.
Corus is a Dutch/British consurtium/company, they produce steel
and their headquarter is based near Rotterdam. Do they have an office there?
And why Olympic spirit is failing?!
LOL
so many interesting issues, :-)
oh btw, since I don't believe in Gods, I did pray to him!!!! LOL

Yes, Charlotte, they are building a railway museum but don't get too excited. lol It's only a small museum, in part of the Roundhouse. (across the street from Skydome/Roger's Centre) The Roundhouse has 3 parts, brewery on one side, furniture store on the other end and a small rail museum, still under construction, in the middle. The cool part is the park surrounding it. They have moved 3 small, historic railway buildings to the park, which are renovated and will be used for displays, selling food and tickets to ride a miniature train, all throughout the park. (what fun for the kiddies and adults who act like kids lol) They also have some full sized trains in the park. So by next summer, it should be quite fun to see all the new stuff in the park. It looks very cute, so far. Kids will love it.

Toronto has a science museum called The Science Centre, which is out in the burbs. It's a pretty sizable museum and a great place for kids. I know I loved it, when I was a kid. The new aquarium is by "Ripley's" so don't expect a serious aquarium like The Shedd. (which I think is a non-profit aquarium) It looks to me, yep, I'm getting a psychic vibe, to be a 2nd or third rate aquarium that kids will love (the same way kinds LOVE CHUCKY CHEESE LOL) and adults will tolerate. (been to Ripley's in Niagara? lol) Let's hope it turns out better then my vibe is telling me. :)

Corus is almost done. One good thing about Corus is that it will have public performances and TV shows the public can go to watch, so it might turn out to be a fun place, which will help make up for the glass box design. It's also going to have a public beach, so you can go see a TV show and get a tan on the same day. Bring on "Sugar Beach" and fill it with hot bikini girls & boys. :banana:

So far I haven't had an psychic visions (or vibes, as I call it) but if I get one, I'll let you know.

Now as for Charlotte, well, I have been getting a few vibes. lol For some reason I've been getting a strong "psychic vibe" that Charlotte, was in deed a man. :) Now maybe she might just be a woman with a lot of male hormones. lol Then again, my vibe could be totally wrong. Taller, didn't you meet Charlotte? Want to fill us in? :) On rare occasions my psychic vibe fails me, especially from such far distances. lol

Charlotte, are you a gay man? (or is that just wishful thinking, on my part:lol:) Feel free to tell me to "piss off, wanker".
Charlotte is definitely a woman! I have her on Facebook and she's quite a woman actually...

Now if we could only make Sugar Beach a clothing optional one ... ;) ...


Anyway, when Canadians picture Fairmont we picture, I believe (and I may be generalizing), monumental structures with significant and detailed roofs, windows, and entrance-ways, not sleek, glassy buildings. I really hope, for historical reasons and in support of the 'brand,' they will stray true to this.

the best part about flying porter from the island airport:

UNLIMITED FREE TALLBOYS OF STEAMWHISTLE

il second that!

Now if we could only make Sugar Beach a clothing optional one ... ;) ...


Anyway, when Canadians picture Fairmont we picture, I believe (and I may be generalizing), monumental structures with significant and detailed roofs, windows, and entrance-ways, not sleek, glassy buildings. I really hope, for historical reasons and in support of the 'brand,' they will stray true to this.

Well their new Vancouver property is definitely 'sleek and glassy'.

And while it is a pretty development, I would have preferred something different.

This has been on the radar for a long time...

From what I've been reading over on UT, this is zoned for a 37s mixed use tower and Fairmont owns the land.. They are looking at a Spring 2010 launch.

From MikeToronto$$ On UT:

Application has been submitted for mixed use Hotel, Residential, Office and Path on this site. I have word from the city. Working on getting the document

Location is the northeast corner of Bremner and Lower Simcoe. Hopefully this will be as attractive as Fairmont's Pacific Rim in Vancouver. Anyone willing to bet on the name? Fairmont Lake Ontario? Fairmont Toronto Centre? Fairmont Union Station?

When I first heard rumours about a new Fairmont hotel it was supposed to be where the Telus Tower now stands.

According to the PATH map it'll be connected to the adjoining 18 York St. as well as the Skywalk (I presume it'd be underground through the South Building of MTCC, though it'd be interesting to have an elevated connection!)

As for a name, there isn't a "Fairmont Toronto" yet. I can't think of something more iconic that could be used like some of the other hotels unless they plan on using the other brands like Savoy or Raffles.

Thank you Filip for your support and the answer... Mollywood is quite funny!
I wish I was a " Gay" man, so I could marry Mollywood! .. LOL

This is really odd though, having a small railway museum, next to a furniture store and then again attached to a brewery???? what kind of a new Disneyland idea is this?

Looks like they want us to get inside the furniture store, buy some new lamps and chairs or chinawear, then grab a glass of beer/wine with our wife,hubby,bf or gf or gay friends!!, and good jolly, now we have had it all, let's have a trainride around the park as well!? the sun is shining after all... LOL

...

I hope when they finish the Fairmont hotel, they will also start building some real new attractions for the city such as a real Aquarium like Shedd's or I don't know something!

...

Y
Toronto has a science museum called The Science Centre, which is out in the burbs. It's a pretty sizable museum and a great place for kids. I know I loved it, when I was a kid.

LOL, out in the burbs huh? For my gramps that's downtown.

From marcus_a_j over on UT:

Some details from the public meeting tonight:

* Fairmont not involved, no explanation of their role, if any at all except for past ownership of the lands around the area as CP Rail
* Great West Life is the proponent (backed by BCIMC, also building 18 York)
* Page & Steele/IBI Group (one company now) is the architect
* 2 buildings connected by a 2-storey podium, which will also connect to 18 York
* One 50-storey, ~175m tall residential/hotel tower, situated on the northwest portion of the site connected by a 10-storey podium along Lower Simcoe
* One ~26 storey office building. No specific details, but will be similar to 18 York in terms of massing, height and GFA. ~600,000 sf was suggested). North-south orientation along eastern portion of the site
* Hotel guest drop off/loop and small square between two buildings along the northside of Bremner
* Residential/hotel building requires a minor variance for height increase, but is within density limits
* Office building would require a full rezoning application in the future for density purposes
* Residential units will be high-end rentals. BCIMC wants to maintain ownership of entire buildings, therefore no condominium units
* Fully connected to PATH via 18 York with retail and possibly to MTCC and the Skywalk
* No deals lined up with a hotel company as of yet (at least that's what they said)
* No timeframes given for construction to commence

A design was shown that was fairly decent, however it is very preliminary and was mainly shown to highlight the massing of all the buildings.


Seems Fairmont is not involved with this project; given that it's a rental tower this will have a different timeframe than we're used to.

WOW 50 storey 175m??? Thats way taller than I was expecting. It will be almost the exact same size as the smaller tower in Maple Leaf Square.

It wouldn't make sense for Fairmont to be involved directly as they already have the Royal York so close by. Possibly Raffles may be running the hotel, or maybe some other company. Then again, maybe they're just delaying the announcement of that until everything is approved, because it would look bad if the building were caught in limbo or canceled with the Fairmont name involved.

Raffles is Fairmont in case you weren't aware. Vancouver also has three Fairmonts within blocks of each other .

Another forumer on UT (who started the rumours) is certain it will be a Fairmont.

From TorontoMike$$

"A flagship Fairmont will be here! They have been involved right from the start.

The hotel will be 5 star.. the building will be LEED Gold.. no delta sorry delta boys"

Now as for Charlotte, well, I have been getting a few vibes. lol For some reason I've been getting a strong "psychic vibe" that Charlotte, was in deed a man.

You just went from psychic to psychdick. :lol:

Raffles is Fairmont in case you weren't aware. Vancouver also has three Fairmonts within blocks of each other .

Yeah I am aware. I guess I'm not sure if they mean that Fairmont isn't associated with this as in the entire corporation, or just that particular brand name.

Not sure if this has been posted, but it is an interesting look at mixed-use buildings:

Property Report

Add 1 part offices, 1 part condos; try to mix well

Special to The Globe and Mail
Published on Tuesday, Jan. 26, 2010 12:00AM EST



Canada's fourth-richest man, Jimmy Pattison, doesn't change office locations quickly.

The British Columbia king of grocery stores, car dealerships and outdoor advertising moved into the Guinness Building when it opened in 1969 in downtown Vancouver. He was still there 35 years later.

But when his long-time assistant Maureen Chant, who wields considerable power, heard that there was a new tower planned for a block away, she said, "We're going to be moving into that building."

The choice might have seemed odd to some. The Shaw Tower is not a traditional "power broker" building. The 42-storey structure next to the city's convention centre has 18 floors of offices on the bottom and 24 storeys of expensive condos above them.

But that didn't make Ms. Chant blink. It's a beautiful building and it's right on the waterfront.

"As far as the residential here, you don't even know," Ms. Chant says from her 18th-floor office, where she and her boss moved four years ago. "It's not an issue at all. We couldn't be happier."

It might not be an issue for the occupants of Shaw Tower. But city planners, downtown business groups and commercial brokers worry about mixing high-end office buildings with condos in or near central business districts.

Their big fear: that condos will end up crowding out work space, which could have an impact on cities' economic health.


That's been a point of tension in Vancouver, where skyrocketing sales of downtown condos have led developers to pay any price for land to build them on. That drove up the price of real estate to the point where office-development economics didn't work in a city where the demand for Class A space is lower, compared with that of Toronto or Calgary, and where people were willing to pay a premium for luxury condos downtown.

After several high-profile sites near the central business district were either converted from office to condo or were built as new condo towers, enough alarm set in that Vancouver put a moratorium on condo development in a large downtown area.

Vancouver's planning director, Brent Toderian, has had to fight local developers who argue that the city can't support a large area of office-only development and that the condos in mixed-use buildings help subsidize office space.

"Vancouver is not a large head-office town, but it still doesn't mean you can default to mixed-use towers. You still need office space," Mr. Toderian says. "And if you mix, you replace office volume with residential."

Even Toronto, with its much more robust office market, has seen condo development encroaching on its downtown and important satellite downtowns, to the point where planners have had to declare that residential development won't be allowed at key points.

"At Yonge and Sheppard, we're reserving some properties for employment use because it's close to transit. And around Union Station, we want to make sure that's not residential," says Robert Freedman, the director of urban design for Toronto. "If you allow your sites that are best serviced by transit to be surrounded by residential, that creates problems."

He acknowledges that he feels pressure from developers who say the market and not egghead planners should decide what gets built where and when.

Toronto has allowed projects that mix residential - no more than 50 per cent - and non-residential in an area south of Union Station where development had been sluggish. That allowed Maple Leaf Square, now under construction, to combine offices, shops and condos.

That policy is working for the city, says Toronto's senior urban designer for the downtown, James Patakh. Why? Because it has sparked office development. "Now we have two other purely office buildings under construction near there," he says.

Which is all good, as long as the pattern holds.

City planners aren't the only ones who worry and wonder, though. The move to mixed uses downtown sparks passionate debate in the development and business communities about what makes a downtown or a good office building.

Ian Gillespie, who built the Shaw Tower in Vancouver (and is building Toronto's Shangri-La), believes that mixed-used office and condos in downtown districts are here to stay and those who don't realize it are stuck in last-century ideas.

"By any measure, the Shaw Tower is a huge success. This is the most sought-after building in the city," says Mr. Gillespie, although he acknowledges that the location is a critical factor for any mixed project.

Development consultant Michael Geller, who has worked in both Toronto and Vancouver, says he thinks Vancouver is "making a mistake by discouraging mixed-use next to the CBD [central business district] - one subsidizes the other."

And even Vancouver's top office developer thinks mixed buildings have a place in his city. "Mixed use really depends on the size of the city, the nature of the community and the residential demand," says Tony Astles, vice-president of real estate service for Bentall Corp. "For a small city, mixed use makes a ton of sense. There isn't enough demand to build a full office."

But others argue that, with rare exceptions such as the Shaw Tower, a developer will never get the same price for office space in a mixed building compared with an office-only tower. That means an ultimate reduction in space available for Class A buildings, which are essential to a downtown core.

"Mixed-use developments are only for certain types of office tenants," says Rob Armstrong at Avison Young in Toronto, where he is managing director of the tenant representation group. "Lawyers, accountants, head offices, stockbrokers want office space that's going to help brand you. It's not just about the money, it's about who I am."

He notes that Maple Leaf Square - the mixed project that the City of Toronto allowed - had some trouble finding the right companies who wanted to move in because of that dynamic. The building apparently is now 87 per cent leased.

Some firms will happily move in to a mixed-use building if it works with their image. But they are few and far between. They're also likely to pay less.

While a top Class A building would lease for $70 a square foot, says Mr. Armstrong, mixed-use projects, especially one south of the tracks, would more likely fall in the $35-to-$45 range.

One of the partners in Maple Leaf Square agrees that his kind of project takes special tenants.

"It was thought there was an opportunity for a special kind of office user who would like to take advantage of the signage and the branding opportunity, who could take advantage of the types of businesses that were attracted by that," says Wayne Barwise, senior vice-president at Cadillac Fairview. His company developed the project, which is next to the Air Canada Centre, with Lanterra, a residential developer, and Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment.

But for other sites, Mr. Barwise said, the mixed-use model that his company has been employing more often is one where office and residential exist on the same property but in separate buildings.

Cadillac Fairview's RBC Centre and Ritz Carlton project is an example of that approach. Cadillac built a 1.2 million-square-foot office tower on one part of the land and is completing the second tower, which will have the Ritz Carlton Hotel on the bottom 20 floors, with 30 floors of condos above.

Cadillac wouldn't necessarily try even that combination just anywhere. But, says Mr. Barwise, such mixing is appropriate for certain places.

"They work in highly concentrated urban settings."

HURDLES FOR BUILDERS

"In mixed use ... the management process if very inefficient. We did a residential-and-office tower in San Francisco and it was awkward dealing with the tenants. It was a lot of work."

Tony Astles, vice-president, real estate services, Bentall Corp., Vancouver

"[Construction] is more complicated and it's more expensive than a standard office building. Buildings that mix office, where users typically want big open spaces, and condos, where the interior space is divided up more finely, need different size floor plates, for one. That means having to incorporate transfer slabs - extra-strong concrete platforms built in to the floor where the use shifts so that the structural pillars can be shifted to different positions."

Wayne Barwise, senior vice-president, Cadillac Fairview, Toronto

"Projects have to be designed in such a way that the components are properly separated. Office tenants want a separate identity and they want a professional business environment. Where tenants have pushed back is if they aren't separated and then owners have had to offer lower rents."

Darrell Hurst, Principal, Avison Young, Vancouver

You just went from psychic to psychdick. :lol:

I wonder why my gender is so important to a few here!!!! A man or a woman, who cares?!

Seems like I have no right to be who I am and what I am and just be interested in some real stuff rather than "babies"

I like Mollywood to answer a question:

What does make a man a man and what does a woman be a woman?

Is there any difference (except for the physical part?)

I AM QUITE FED UP WITH THIS NONSENSE GOING ON HERE

MOLLYWOOD YOU TRULY OWE ME AN APOLOGY AND I CERTAINLY DO NOT TOLERATE YOUR BULLSHIT COMMENTS ON MY GENDER ANY LONGER!!!!

YOU NOW TRULY GO TOO FAR! I HATE YOU.

I wonder why my gender is so important to a few here!!!! A man or a woman, who cares?!

Seems like I have no right to be who I am and what I am and just be interested in some real stuff rather than "babies"

I like Mollywood to answer a question:

What does make a man a man and what does a woman be a woman?

Is there any difference (except for the physical part?)

I AM QUITE FED UP WITH THIS NONSENSE GOING ON HERE

MOLLYWOOD YOU TRULY OWE ME AN APOLOGY AND I CERTAINLY DO NOT TOLERATE YOUR BULLSHIT COMMENTS ON MY GENDER ANY LONGER!!!!

YOU NOW TRULY GO TOO FAR! I HATE YOU.

I've been noticing it too. There are a few people who are completely out of line and need to develop some manners. I thought it would stop, but it's just getting worse and worse.

She's a guy because she has an opinion and won't cower in the corner? She's very much welcome here, but condescending/insulting comments/opinions of women like that are not.

Charlotte, I'm really sorry you had to put up with all the garbage comments floating your way recently. It is exactly what you described it as: BULLSHIT!

:ohno:

I've been noticing it too. There are a few people who are completely out of line and need to develop some manners. I thought it would stop, but it's just getting worse and worse.

She's a guy because she has an opinion and won't cower in the corner? She's very much welcome here, but condescending/insulting comments/opinions of women like that are not.

Charlotte, I'm really sorry you had to put up with all the garbage comments floating your way recently. It is exactly what you described it as: BULLSHIT!

:ohno:

Thank you so much Isaidso for your support. I like Mollywood and thought that conversation was over, but did notice a comment of him being quoted that I couldn't find anywhere else and that really made me upset.
I flipped out totally and won't forget him as long as he does not openly apologize and stop commenting on me.
I begin to think myself that he " Mollywood" is a sexually frustrated personality himself or suffering some sort of a behaviour disorder towards women or female sex and that this way he feels better when he hurts people!
Or perhaps a sort of cry to ask for more attention himself.
I don't know, we can go and figure, but he is really going too far now.

Why he just doesn't open a thread as to guess my gender or other forumers gender at all? and all to himself?

The way I see it is too many forumers on here ramble on about non topic stuff and and we're getting too many drama queens hurting feelings and getting hurt. The rest of us would rather not have to waste our time reading through all this crap.

Insults and arguments in the personal nature have no place on this forum.

Now back to the topic.........

Toronto was built by and large on railway, and from the CN Tower to the West Donlands the railway was the backbone of industry in this city.

http://www.trha.ca/assets/images/museum/johnstreet2lg.jpg

http://www.trha.ca/assets/images/museum/donstation1lg.jpg
The 1896 Canadian Pacific Railway Don station was originally located on the western bank of the Don River, south of Queen St. and was moved to Todmorden Mills in 1969. An important part of building preservation is an appreciation of the context in which the structure existed. Don Station has long lacked any railway context in its present location at Todmorden Mills. For years, the station was boarded up and not even open to the public. Relocation to Roundhouse Park will allow the Roundhouse Park Miniature Railway (RPMR) to replace this lost rail context. Passengers for the RPMR will be able to purchase tickets and board trains at the Don Station, effectively recreating the station's original function.

In Roundhouse Park, the Don Station would serve as an initial contact point and reception area for visitors to the Toronto Railway Museum. The station would contain the following elements:

I do have to say that the miniture railway is a bit pathetic and small town for that location.

Here is the Spadina Roundhouse demolished for the Rogers Centre.
http://www.railpixs.com/cn/CN_SpadinaYd_roundhouse_Toronto_Dec80.jpg

http://www.trainweb.org/oldtimetrains/CPR_Toronto/john_st_old_rh1.jpg

http://www.trainweb.org/oldtimetrains/CPR_Toronto/aerial_Toronto.jpg

wiki and google pics

what a contrast!!! wow

Great posts! Thanks AndrewJM3D. Those photos were really great.

Thank you so much Isaidso for your support.

My pleasure. I'd honestly reached my limit as well. :)

What do you think about a 50 floor building here? It will be really strange having a substantial building right next to the CN Tower. I'm completely undecided as to whether a building on this lot should go tall, go shorter, or remain at 50 floors. It will be difficult to get any building to work well with its immediate surroundings. :weird:

50 floors is a good, solid height for the area. Slowly Bremner is becoming a real downtown street!

50 floors is a good, solid height for the area. Slowly Bremner is becoming a real downtown street!

I go for taller 70!

I wonder why my gender is so important to a few here!!!! A man or a woman, who cares?!

Seems like I have no right to be who I am and what I am and just be interested in some real stuff rather than "babies"

I like Mollywood to answer a question:

What does make a man a man and what does a woman be a woman?

Is there any difference (except for the physical part?)

I AM QUITE FED UP WITH THIS NONSENSE GOING ON HERE

MOLLYWOOD YOU TRULY OWE ME AN APOLOGY AND I CERTAINLY DO NOT TOLERATE YOUR BULLSHIT COMMENTS ON MY GENDER ANY LONGER!!!!

YOU NOW TRULY GO TOO FAR! I HATE YOU.

Hopefully the psychdick comment was not seen as being directed at you. I think the point was pretty obvious (with a passive-aggressive chuckle tossed in).

Based on your strong reaction, I feel like I have missed some history.

http://www.trainweb.org/oldtimetrains/CPR_Toronto/john_st_old_rh1.jpg


Does anyone know why there are large berms around the roundhouse here. It looks as though the reclaimed land was piled higher at one point. Considering the vegetation, it looks like this was not short-term.

50 floors is a good, solid height for the area. Slowly Bremner is becoming a real downtown street!


It will rise about a third the way up the CN Tower.

It will rise about a third the way up the CN Tower.

I am happy with the number 50. What I don't like is 30 or 40.

( In the Beach: you 've missed some totally unrelevant stuff, so no such big deal. let's talk about buildings)

It will rise about a third the way up the CN Tower.

There are very few buildings that can crawl much higher up the CN Tower.. it's still a monster regardless of that pile of kitsch they built in Dubai.

You'd think Charlotte would be flattered by all the attention. I too picture her as a man as well but, a young inexperienced man. Certainly has the self-consciousness of one.

You'd think Charlotte would be flattered by all the attention. I too picture her as a man as well but, a young inexperienced man. Certainly has the self-consciousness of one.

She's not, trust me.

Thank you so much Isaidso for your support. I like Mollywood and thought that conversation was over, but did notice a comment of him being quoted that I couldn't find anywhere else and that really made me upset.
I flipped out totally and won't forget him as long as he does not openly apologize and stop commenting on me.
I begin to think myself that he " Mollywood" is a sexually frustrated personality himself or suffering some sort of a behaviour disorder towards women or female sex and that this way he feels better when he hurts people!
Or perhaps a sort of cry to ask for more attention himself.
I don't know, we can go and figure, but he is really going too far now.

Why he just doesn't open a thread as to guess my gender or other forumers gender at all? and all to himself?

Um, what did I say that was so insulting? :ohno: I made all of 1 comment, which I thought was just a joke or playul teasing. (Due to another member's comment) Of course, it was tongue in cheek and I thought it was totally inoffensive. I had absolutely no intent to insult anyone, so Charlotte, if you thought I was being insulting, I apologise. That was not my intention at all. Did it sound like I was being insulting towards women? I think people might be reading something into my comments that were not intended. Trust me, I have no issues with women, I like most of the ones I've met. As for being sexually frustrated, well there might be some validity there. :lol:

So once again, I apologise to Chatlotte and anyone else who was offended by my unsuccessful attempt at what I thought was good-natured humor. :)

By the way, I recently filmed this park, the cabins and inside of the Leon's store a bit. I will put it all together and post it on here. It's gonna be a very unique, little park. Who doesn't like trains?

Does anyone know why there are large berms around the roundhouse here. It looks as though the reclaimed land was piled higher at one point. Considering the vegetation, it looks like this was not short-term.


That sort of vegetation can grow in a matter of a few years.

That sort of vegetation can grow in a matter of a few years.

I'm not a historian so I don't know if the dates make this possible.

But I was thinking those berms probably were used during infill of the Lake Ontario shoreline for compression of the soil.

You'd think Charlotte would be flattered by all the attention. I too picture her as a man as well but, a young inexperienced man. Certainly has the self-consciousness of one.

I don't know what kind of women you have seen during your life span, but believe me, there are WAY more women out there with a very clear opinion and strong self-consciousness.

In fact, I don't know how on Earth you can come up with something so prejudgemantal and kind of odd opinion Valantino?! Sounds like a sexist! don't you think so?

Why should only MEN be self-conscious and not WOMEN?

Anyways, no, I am/was surely not flattered and this just makes me think that either I am too good to be true or SOME of you here are really SHALLOW & SHORTSIDED!

Um, what did I say that was so insulting? :ohno: I made all of 1 comment, which I thought was just a joke or playul teasing. (Due to another member's comment) Of course, it was tongue in cheek and I thought it was totally inoffensive. I had absolutely no intent to insult anyone, so Charlotte, if you thought I was being insulting, I apologise. That was not my intention at all. Did it sound like I was being insulting towards women? I think people might be reading something into my comments that were not intended. Trust me, I have no issues with women, I like most of the ones I've met. As for being sexually frustrated, well there might be some validity there. :lol:

So once again, I apologise to Chatlotte and anyone else who was offended by my unsuccessful attempt at what I thought was good-natured humor. :)

Apology accepted Mollywood.

You need to learn one big lesson: We are here on these forums to discuss Architecture and there are BOTH men and women who are or could be interested in such matters and not only GAYS AND FRUSTRATED MEN!

You should not speak out of your own small piece of world and experience and step out of your own small box and think BIG(ger)!

Most teachers are female, there are female taxi/bus/truck drivers too, there are female police officers, lawyers, doctors, surgeons and even architects!

I don't know in which small city or village you have been growing up and in what kind of house or environment you did grow up, but believe me, there are lots and lots of women who are like me and I can tell. I am even the most naive one and one that is pretty much afraid and vulnerable too as you have noticed yourself. These are exactly JUST a few examples of the qualities that one can mostly find in women and less in men!

IF you don't believe me, be my guest and add yourself to my Facebook!

NOW, stop harrassing me sexually and with the mobbing, all of you; Valantino, Mollywood, The Beam Doc etc. and pls focus on the reason why you, me and all of us are here: ARCHITECTURE, TORONTO AND SKYSCRAPERS!

...


Andrew: Sorry for me cutting in, but let's hope that they now stop going off-topic and come up with something really relevant to this topic!

Filip: THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BACKING ME!!! I am sure you now know who here is sexually frustrated huh? ... Am so glad that you and Vanboy are listed on my FB and we've become friends.

They are just jealouse of me being a rich spoiled cosmoplitan BOY! oeps, I mean girl!!! :lol:

You'd think Charlotte would be flattered by all the attention. I too picture her as a man as well but, a young inexperienced man. Certainly has the self-consciousness of one.

Oh brother, the condescending views of women continues! Perhaps, the inexperienced man is the one you see in the mirror. I expect that kind of talk from a problematic adolescent boy, not an adult. :ohno:

I am not sure how I missed all of this, but for god sakes STOP telling Charlotte she is a man, because:
A) she is not, and
B) it is none of your business.

These are friendly forums, and let's keep them that way. NO MORE PERSONAL INSULTS.
May I remind people that if you are not interested in reading the posts of another member, you all have the option to "Ignore" that person so you will not
have to read their entries. That would be far better than insulting people with vicious personal jabs.

I agree with TB! Let's just talk about buildings! Until there's a men/girls of Canada thread like they have in the other country's subforums here, there's no reason to really talk about that stuff on a building/architecture forum!

Let's try and keep the discussion mainly to buildings.

Thank YOU TB, Isaidso, Epi and the rest for your support.

No problem Charlotte. I'd had enough. Maybe an image will get people back on topic. Elliot touched up one of his great future Toronto renders to include 45 Bay, 1 Bloor, and the Fairmont. He just used place holders as the designs aren't known. The rumoured twisty Signature is added as well. It's still a nice perspective:

http://www.upside-down.ca/sdphotos/2010highangle-small.jpg
Courtesy of Elliot

No problem Charlotte. I'd had enough. Maybe an image will get people back on topic. Elliot touched up one of his great future Toronto renders to include 45 Bay, 1 Bloor, and the Fairmont. He just used place holders as the designs aren't known. The rumoured twisty Signature is added as well. It's still a nice perspective:

http://www.upside-down.ca/sdphotos/2010highangle-small.jpg
Courtesy of Elliot

Good old Elliot, thats exactly what this thread needs. Dont sweat the small stuff. look at the big picture. Thanks for the reminder isaidso.

No problem Charlotte. I'd had enough. Maybe an image will get people back on topic. Elliot touched up one of his great future Toronto renders to include 45 Bay, 1 Bloor, and the Fairmont. He just used place holders as the designs aren't known. The rumoured twisty Signature is added as well. It's still a nice perspective:

http://www.upside-down.ca/sdphotos/2010highangle-small.jpg
Courtesy of Elliot

OMG!!!!!! OH MY GOSHHHH!!!!

I hardly can wait for the day that I fly into the city and can film this from my window seat!?!?

Oh goshhhhh.... this will be just as beautiful as Chicago and NYC and even better, if they indeed add up TWO OR THREE super talls AT LEAST too to the city's skyline!

WoooooooooooouuuuuuW!^^

:happy: That's more like it. :happy:

It's is a fabulous render. My favourite of all of his. We will get our beautiful metropolis! It may not look exactly how we would like, but it will be fabulous, nonetheless.

Thanks for the reminder isaidso.

My pleasure.

I'm assuming you're industry? What's the rumour mill saying about Signature? It's the last of the CityPlace towers, so I'm assuming they're waiting till Parade nears completion or perhaps, they're acquiring land next to Parade for another tower first? I believe the release for Signature is 2011.

A couple supertalls ain't gonna cut it. You need about 500 more highrises of which 300 are over 250 feet, 200 are over 300 feet, 150 are over 400 feet, 100 over 500 feet, 50 over 600 feet, 25 over 700 feet to top present day Chicago.

Come on, seriously, 325 - 400 foot pluser's to rival Chicago?

That's probably 50 years away, I mean, I'd love it, and skylines are subjective, but that number is essentially dozens of times higher then our existing stock.

I think your calculations would result in a skyline that would obliterate Chicago let alone match it.

Apology accepted Mollywood.

You need to learn one big lesson: We are here on these forums to discuss Architecture and there are BOTH men and women who are or could be interested in such matters and not only GAYS AND FRUSTRATED MEN!

You should not speak out of your own small piece of world and experience and step out of your own small box and think BIG(ger)!

Most teachers are female, there are female taxi/bus/truck drivers too, there are female police officers, lawyers, doctors, surgeons and even architects!

I don't know in which small city or village you have been growing up and in what kind of house or environment you did grow up, but believe me, there are lots and lots of women who are like me and I can tell. I am even the most naive one and one that is pretty much afraid and vulnerable too as you have noticed yourself. These are exactly JUST a few examples of the qualities that one can mostly find in women and less in men!

IF you don't believe me, be my guest and add yourself to my Facebook!

NOW, stop harrassing me sexually and with the mobbing, all of you; Valantino, Mollywood, The Beam Doc etc. and pls focus on the reason why you, me and all of us are here: ARCHITECTURE, TORONTO AND SKYSCRAPERS!

...


Andrew: Sorry for me cutting in, but let's hope that they now stop going off-topic and come up with something really relevant to this topic!

Filip: THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BACKING ME!!! I am sure you now know who here is sexually frustrated huh? ... Am so glad that you and Vanboy are listed on my FB and we've become friends.

They are just jealouse of me being a rich spoiled cosmoplitan BOY! oeps, I mean girl!!! :lol:

While I was born in downtown Toronto, at age 4 we moved to the tiny village of North York, so that might explain things. Being surrounded by miles and miles of nothingness, except for the odd lumberjack, might have warped my young mind. I don't think there was a female around for miles. (Well, accept for the odd farmer's wife, toiling away in the fields)

OK, enough about me and my dull life in the burbs, let's get back to why we're all here, to have a good fight! :bash: :lol:

I mean architecture.

While I was born in downtown Toronto, at age 4 we moved to the tiny village of North York, so that might explain things. Being surrounded by miles and miles of nothingness, except for the odd lumberjack, might have warped my young mind. I don't think there was a female around for miles. (Well, accept for the odd farmer's wife, toiling away in the fields)

OK, enough about me and my dull life in the burbs, let's get back to why we're all here, to have a good fight! :bash: :lol:

I mean architecture.

Explains a lot!

Believe me Mollywood, there are lots of girls who would say that they are cosmopolitan and well lived through different situations to know who they are and how good they are, but put them in the middle of a city, any city and they won't find the way back home!

I am REALLY one of the cosmo girls who can VERY well take care of herself and in fact, it is life who should be aware of me and not the other way around!

I am not like most women, that is true, you 've guessed it very well and it can't be easy to believe, but if you 've been going and growing up in the middle of revolutions, wars and different places while living in exhile, you won't be JUST ANY GIRL! :lol:

keep that in mind and accept the fact that I am a woman and not just ANY!
:)

^Are you Palestinian or Iranian?

wow, i feel like i've missed a huge jerry springer show.
after quickly perusing the last several pages, i must conclude that it seems charlotte has been teased gratuitously.
Charlotte, i'm glad you're confident & strongwilled enuf to put up with and combat/repel the 'banter'.

Charlotte, i'm glad you're confident & strongwilled enuf to put up with and combat/repel the 'banter'.

Thank you Sammo, I appreciate your support. :yes:

^Are you Palestinian or Iranian?

Way off topic again?!


Let's keep it to the topic:

I have such an strong feeling that this Fairmont will be going to be something very similar to this one here:

http://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv74/CharVDB/FairmontHotel-001.jpg

off course the green colored roofs will be significant to it for sure.

Come on, seriously, 325 - 400 foot pluser's to rival Chicago?

That's probably 50 years away, I mean, I'd love it, and skylines are subjective, but that number is essentially dozens of times higher then our existing stock.

I think your calculations would result in a skyline that would obliterate Chicago let alone match it.

There are nearly 1500 highrises in North York, Etobicoke and Scarborough that have no impact on Toronto's skyline unless you're in an airplane. As a former resident and frequent visitor, Chicago's core skyline has more than twice as many as highrises and about three times the height as Toronto.

I'm not sure where you are getting the 325 from either. I clearly said 150 over 400 feet.

Way off topic again?!


Let's keep it to the topic:

I have such an strong feeling that this Fairmont will be going to be something very similar to this one here:

http://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv74/CharVDB/FairmontHotel-001.jpg

off course the green colored roofs will be significant to it for sure.

no offense but,

OH GAWD NO!!!

same goes to the building to the right of the Fairmont.

Luckily, the best guess is Westbak is involved who I could never imagine building a Hilton Niagara!

Westbank's Ian Gillespie, check out Fairmont Pacific Rim (Vancouver) for an idea of where this project is headed....

I'm not sure where you are getting the 325 from either. I clearly said 150 over 400 feet.

You also said this:

A couple supertalls ain't gonna cut it. You need about 500 more highrises of which 300 are over 250 feet, 200 are over 300 feet, 150 are over 400 feet, 100 over 500 feet, 50 over 600 feet, 25 over 700 feet to top present day Chicago.

150+100+50+25=325

I agree that Toronto has a long way to go still to match Chicago in scale and height downtown, but I'd be very surprised if Toronto needed as many towers as you're suggesting. Another 10-15 years of development like we've seen over the last few years should do the trick as long as our new downtown towers get about 30% taller. Toronto still tends to build towers that are much shorter than what's typically built in Chicago.

There are nearly 1500 highrises in North York, Etobicoke and Scarborough that have no impact on Toronto's skyline unless you're in an airplane. As a former resident and frequent visitor, Chicago's core skyline has more than twice as many as highrises and about three times the height as Toronto.

I'm not sure where you are getting the 325 from either. I clearly said 150 over 400 feet.

Not to drag it out valantino, but as noted, your numbers add up to 325 towers over 400 feet.

And I hardly suspect that having towers built in the satellite 'downtowns' of Etobicoke and NYCC and Scarborough have any impact on our downtown/actual skyline. So why even bring them up?

What I mean is I naturally assumed you were talking about 350 towers being added to the core simply because, as your own words suggest, a tower north of the 401 would hardly add to our core skyline.

While 350 towers over 400 feet wouldn't be dozens of times more then our current downtown count, I exaggerate to make a point, some of the numbers you suggest are simply HUGE.

Yes, we need a lot of development to catch up to Chicago, but I don't think we're nearly as far away as you originally suggested.

no offense but,

OH GAWD NO!!!

same goes to the building to the right of the Fairmont.

Luckily, the best guess is Westbak is involved who I could never imagine building a Hilton Niagara!

off course no offence... I totally agree with you in this regard...

we have been disappointed pretty much a few times in the past, so who can say that it won't happen this time with this new future addition.

This one is ugly, but I can hardly imagine of Fairmont group to come up with something really breathtakingly beautiful or original.

BTW, NO OFFENCE THOUGH, but since Fairmont group is in the hands of rich Arab sheikhs of UAE and we know how tacky their tastes is, who knows, we will be DEEPLY disappointed!!!! :ohno:

Not to drag it out valantino, but as noted, your numbers add up to 325 towers over 400 feet.


No worries although I'm confused where I noted to add up the numbers?

A couple supertalls ain't gonna cut it. You need about 500 more highrises of which 300 are over 250 feet, 200 are over 300 feet, 150 are over 400 feet, 100 over 500 feet, 50 over 600 feet, 25 over 700 feet to top present day Chicago.

To clarify as my punctuation could of been better but isn't a building over 500 feet also over 300 feet?

A couple supertalls ain't gonna cut it. You need about 500 more highrises of which 300 are over 250 feet, 200 are over 300 feet, 150 are over 400 feet, 100 over 500 feet, 50 over 600 feet, 25 over 700 feet to top present day Chicago.

So let me see if I have this right to come to a total of 500 highrises....

225 = <250 feet
100 = 250-300 feet
50 = 300-400 feet
50 = 400-500 feet
25 = 500-600 feet
25 = 600-700 feet
25 = >700 feet




KGB

KGB, you are sorely missed on these boards.

Wow it's KGB, haven't seen you post in months!

I was just gonna say - wooooow

Give me a good math dilemma, and I'm there!!



KGB

Give me a good math dilemma, and I'm there!!



KGB

Deal - help me with my hedging of interest rate risk problem.. It's a head scratcher!

2. Un fondo de inversión inmobiliario ha financiado con un préstamo hipotecario a tipo
de interés variable la adquisición de un centro comercial. El precio de adquisición del
centro comercial asciende a 200 millones de euros y el préstamo hipotecario a 100
millones de euros. El préstamo se amortiza totalmente al vencimiento (10 años) y los
pagos de intereses se realizan semestralmente, los cuales se calculan añadiendo al
Euribor a 6 meses un diferencial (nominal y anual) de tres puntos porcentuales. El fondo
desea cubrir el riesgo de tipo de interés contratando un producto financiero en el mismo
momento en el que obtiene el préstamo. De acuerdo con los datos de los productos
disponibles que aparecen al final del ejercicio:
a) Indique todas las estrategias posibles de cobertura y la racionalidad de cada una
de ellas
b) ¿Cómo calcularía el coste efectivo de endeudamiento para cada una de las
estrategias?
c) ¿Cuál sería el rango de variación, a priori, del coste efectivo de endeudamiento
para cada una de las estrategias?
d) Calcule los flujos de caja de los productos financieros de cada una de las
estrategias en el momento inicial.
e) Calcule las liquidaciones de los productos financieros para cada una de las
estrategias si el Euribor a 6 meses (nominal y anual) dentro de dos años y medio
es del 6%.
f) Calcule las liquidaciones de los productos financieros para cada una de las
estrategias si el Euribor a 6 meses (nominal y anual) dentro de dos años y medio
es del 1,5%
g) Calcule las liquidaciones de los productos financieros para cada una de las
estrategias si el Euribor a 6 meses (nominal y anual) dentro de dos años y medio
es del 4,25%
Datos de productos disponibles
Tipo fijo de un IRS: 4.625% (nominal y anual)
Cap de tipo de ejercicio del 4,625% (nominal y anual): prima del 1,660% sobre
el nocional
Floor de tipo de ejercicio del 2,625% (nominal y anual): prima del 0,960% sobre
el nocional
3. Los datos del tipo de interés interbancario (nominal y anual) del dólar a día de hoy
son los siguientes:
6m 12m 18m 24m
Tipo de interés 3.00% 3.50% 4.00% 4.50%
Plazo
Calcule cual sería el tipo fijo de un IRS (swap de tipo de interés) a día de hoy para un
vencimiento de 2 años y liquidaciones semestrales. Explique el sentido de la
metodología de cálculo del precio del IRS.

:cheers:

Give me a good math dilemma, and I'm there!!



KGB

There has been many a thread in various and sundry international areas that we have needed you to come in and wipe the floor with ill-informed members!
Few things in Life are more satisfying to watch. :lol:

No worries although I'm confused where I noted to add up the numbers?


You didn't have to, we did it for you. You've clearly stated that 325 towers taller than 400 feet were needed to rival Chicago. 500, 600, and 700 ft towers are all taller than 400 ft. Where's the confusion? :weird:

Who cares?

Yeah, I remember KGB going way back...I'd say he and Valantino are the only reasons I read the Toronto SSC page. (And TB's photothreads.)

So let me see if I have this right to come to a total of 500 highrises....

225 = <250 feet
100 = 250-300 feet
50 = 300-400 feet
50 = 400-500 feet
25 = 500-600 feet
25 = 600-700 feet
25 = >700 feet




KGB



Meters please. Meters.

(or metres)

Who cares?


Valentino.

Valentino.

Yep.

Maybe not, I don't really care either, if anything it's amusing, and not in a condescending way.

But I'm glad you get what I was saying.

It's a simple logic problem, well maybe tricky, but to be technical and exact about it:

"150 are over 400 feet, 100 over 500 feet, 50 over 600 feet, 25 over 700 feet"

So... in the strictest sense Valentino is not suggesting 350 towers are needed but 150.

A closer look at the numbers:

25 towers are over 700 feet

50 towers are over 600 feet (only 50 of them in total need to be OVER 600 feet and 25 of them are guaranteed to be over 700 feet - so 25 towers need to be 600-699 feet tall)

100 are over 500 feet (50 of these 500+ footers are all ready included in the 600 and 700 footers tally so we only need 50 between 500-599 feet)

150 over 400 feet (25 of these are already tallied in the 700 foot range, 25 counted for in the 600-699 foot range, 50 of these counted in the 500-599 foot range -leaving 50 towers left in the 400 -499 foot range)

So I get it, I did get it Valentino, 150 towers..

The problem was the one possible interpretation of your sentence was fighting with its alternatives and the linguistic implications. Ie. Your intentions were somewhat confusing and could be CORRECTLY interpreted 2 different ways, meaning there's an equally viable low and high potential to your suggestion, logic at war with linguistics.

Cheers - gotta like it when every bodies right.

So let me see if I have this right to come to a total of 500 highrises....

225 = <250 feet
100 = 250-300 feet
50 = 300-400 feet
50 = 400-500 feet
25 = 500-600 feet
25 = 600-700 feet
25 = >700 feet




KGB
Welcome back. And congrats on the math prowess. :)

His math is fine, but the different categories of figures Valentino used weren't meant to be viewed as exclusive.

As I said above, I get now that when he said 150 over 400 feet he meant to include those above 499 feet, when he said 25 over 500 feet his number was inclusive of those above 599 feet etc.

Anyways, no need to drag it out any further, was just originally worded in a vague manner that could be interpreted in 2 ways, one in which you'd get the lowest logical number possible and one in which you would get the largest number, both are valid interpretations depending on how you weighted the logic of the math versus the interpretation of the nature of the language, he meant it to mean the low number, a lot saw it as the high number.

enough fun and games for now,

BTW, NO OFFENCE THOUGH, but since Fairmont group is in the hands of rich Arab sheikhs of UAE and we know how tacky their tastes is, who knows, we will be DEEPLY disappointed!!!!

Sure Fairmont is owned by Arab sheikhs but, they tend to manage properties built by others. For instance, This property is owned by BCIMC and will likely be developed by GWL and Westbank. The business operations for Fairmont are also still very much Canadian with their head office just a hop, skip and a jump away. (TD Centre)

[QUOTE=valantino;51506491
Sure Fairmont is owned by Arab sheikhs but, they tend to manage properties built by others. For instance, This property is owned by BCIMC and will likely be developed by GWL and Westbank. The business operations for Fairmont are also still very much Canadian with their head office just a hop, skip and a jump away. (TD Centre)[/QUOTE]

Oh, I see.... thanks a lot for this useful information Valantino.

Now, I will be able to choose and stay at Fairmont hotels again while travelling. I stopped doing so when I heard of that news some time ago. (if you want to know the reason, just PM me cause I don't want to upset "other" forumers! since I am a very outspoken person)

sooo good, now I can start looking for a fun Fairmont hotel at a beautiful setting like Lake Louise to celebrate my birthday in style this summer!!!

Yeahhhhhhh :banana:

This building is gonna be stunning.

I wonder why my gender is so important to a few here!!!!


I think its partly because there are very few women on this - or any other such thread - that it is a curioisity. Also, when you first started posting here you used a different avatar like so,,,



its a picture of a very attractive lady and it caught some attention. I think its great to have a woman posting (assuming you are) but there are a lot of people who like to pull the wool over our eyes once in a while and we are always on the lookout for someone pulling a fast one on us.

[QUOTE=Fastwalking;51569111]I think its partly because there are very few women on this - or any other such thread - that it is a curioisity. Also, when you first started posting here you used a different avatar like so,,,
its a picture of a very attractive lady and it caught some attention. I think its great to have a woman posting (assuming you are) but there are a lot of people who like to pull the wool over our eyes once in a while and we are always on the lookout for someone pulling a fast one on us.[/QUOTE

Thank you for your comment although you have not the right to post my picture without my own permission.

Secondly, I thought we were finished with the subject and moved on " on" Fairmont???!!!! So you should listen to TB and all of the other respected forumers and stop coming back with such nonsense please.

TB, would you please delete my picture if it is not much of a trouble to you? and maybe all related messages, including these too? Many thanks in advance.

I seriously consider leaving SSC and never come back and report those who treated me so disrespectfully to those who deal with such stuff.

I really don't understand why some of you out there, can not just leave it for what it is and MOVE ON!!!????

Many thanks TB and to all of you.

Mollywood: you started this all, so please don't do it again!

I think its partly because there are very few women on this - or any other such thread - that it is a curioisity. Also, when you first started posting here you used a different avatar like so,,,

its a picture of a very attractive lady and it caught some attention. I think its great to have a woman posting (assuming you are) but there are a lot of people who like to pull the wool over our eyes once in a while and we are always on the lookout for someone pulling a fast one on us.

You have uploaded my picture to your own Flickr account???

Well, I 'd like to know who you are so I can ask my lawyer to soon visit you and your account on Flickr!!!

I AM NOT JOKING!!!!

I think its partly because there are very few women on this - or any other such thread - that it is a curioisity. Also, when you first started posting here you used a different avatar like so,,,

its a picture of a very attractive lady and it caught some attention. I think its great to have a woman posting (assuming you are) but there are a lot of people who like to pull the wool over our eyes once in a while and we are always on the lookout for someone pulling a fast one on us.

What the fuck is wrong with you? Why would you have uploaded a picture of Charlotte without HER permission? You're one sad individual and one day you may just realise that some people don't come on here seeking attention, let alone have critical fools like yourself posting their pictures on the internet. Disgusting.

Are people ever going to drop bringing up the subject that Charlotte is a woman? This is getting ridiculous.
Fastwalking, read the pm I sent you, and I expect an answer, please.

how about we adopt the ole 'don't ask, don't tell' ?

but then, 'who gives a shit' ? works well too.

how about we adopt the ole 'don't ask, don't tell' ?

but then, 'who gives a shit' ? works well too.

LOL:gaah:

seems like we should indeed try that policy.

...

TB: thank you so very much for taking action as fast as you could :hug:. I was/am pretty serious that the next person who brings this silly, really childish silly stuff under the attention as to please himself and to make himself feel better, will be watching the walls of some court somewhere in Canada or USA for sure. I got the money and the guts to take it where it should be and you and those other few who know me well, know that I never JOKE and am bloody serious.

In fact, like I told Fastwalking in a response to his PM, one of my most favorite women on this planet has been: :master:Margaret Tatcher!!! and I love and adore Queen Elizabeth 1st and her strong character.:tongue4:

....

Fastwalking: I really do appreciate your PM and thank you for the actions you took too, we can keep in touch via PM and if you have any questions, just ask. Thanks in advance :)

...

NOW BACK TO THE THREAD!!!! :cheers:


NO MORE " CHARLOTTE" TALK/GOSSIP PLEASE ladies!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:nuts::lol::nuts:

Well, the only thing left to say is CJ's approach isn't very Canadian.

what a messssss.. lets hope a render shows up soon so this thread has a chance at getting back on track

Well, the only thing left to say is CJ's approach isn't very Canadian.

Which isn't such a bad thing for a change.........

Urbandreamer: no matter how hard you try, it is none of your business who I am and where I was born and where I come from and stop send me pm asking such silly questions!

I don't care who you are and where you come from but but I know is that you and those like Valantino are living inside small boxes and are just messed up!

WATEVA!!!!

Now, I said it right out there! Pewwwww...!!

Is it just me or do others on here come across those times when you have to take a step back and go wow, the internet can be pretty f@#king lame.

Oh my gosh a girl, online, maybe!

Whoopty f@#king do, now how 'bout them buildings?

(That's in defense of you Charlotte, just to set things straight, or not even in defense, more like in indifference, as in: out of all the people in the world, all the hundreds of millions online, no offense, but I really don't care who any of you are in real life - talk skyscraper, talk city building and I'm good)

I don't care who you are and where you come from but but I know is that you and those like Valantino are living inside small boxes and are just messed up!


Jeez, I make one or two little off handed remarks to keep the ball rollin' and you choose to call me out? Oh well, you dream of dancing sugarplums & 400 metre towers while I envision tonight with Jessica and a city core without surface parking lots. We're bound to lock heads.


It's unfortunate you're a post whore as well. Just about every one of your posts is centred around the aformentioned dreams of 400 metre deco inspired towers, and/or CharlotteJ with vague references to a city you clearly do not know. Are you really that surprised you have become a centre of attention?

Ha. Well you asked for it in that one post you wrote CJ. Now, everyone lives in little boxes. But Canada is a huge country, with vast potential! Just don't bring your old world hatred to my country.

Cheers.

:sleepy:

LET IT DROP, PLEASE. I am assuming that everyone has completely gotten the excitement out of their system that there is a woman
on the boards, so enough of that topic and back to the real purpose of the thread.
Thank you.

Canada needs some change pretty sure and that change is coming for sure, either you want it or not!

You two better get used to this new world order around you!

TB, did he call me a whore?!

Speaking of the new world order, has anyone other than me seen a rendering? Interior is going to be a real treat as well.:D

This building is gonna be stunning.


Renders?

Speaking of the new world order, has anyone other than me seen a rendering? Interior is going to be a real treat as well.:D

I really, really hate you right now.

I really, really hate you right now.

urbandreamer is pulling your chain...he hasn't seen any render...

..pulled the same stunt at UT regarding one bloor...:ohno:

urbandreamer is pulling your chain...he hasn't seen any render...

..pulled the same stunt at UT regarding one bloor...:ohno:

Yup. He's trolling.

Actually, I'm not this time. But I can't say another word or I'll never be trusted by my source in the future....

As for 1 Bloor--I was hoping GG would be pressured by my "influence" into hiring aA.

Canada needs some change pretty sure and that change is coming for sure, either you want it or not!

You two better get used to this new world order around you!

TB, did he call me a whore?!

No, a post whore is different. See my note.
Valantino, please lay off the insults to Charlotte. Thank you.

Speaking of the new world order, has anyone other than me seen a rendering? Interior is going to be a real treat as well.:D

Though I love Clewes-style boxes (though probably not as much as you) I really hope that something completely different is planned for this location. There's simply too much green and blue glass in this neighbourhood, and it all melds into one amorphous blob from a distance.

Canada needs some change pretty sure and that change is coming for sure, either you want it or not!

You two better get used to this new world order around you!

TB, did he call me a whore?!

What the hell are you talking about? What change? Obama's meaning of change? (a.k.a. more of the same)

You're just a few decades out-of-date with respects to the new world order. Us stonecutters made Steve Gutenburg a star long time ago.

I keep checking threads that go bold only to keep reading things that have nothing to do with the developments.

That's all I have to say.

Though I love Clewes-style boxes (though probably not as much as you) I really hope that something completely different is planned for this location. There's simply too much green and blue glass in this neighbourhood, and it all melds into one amorphous blob from a distance.

Maybe it's time to visit the optometrist ;)

I don't mind that the colour palette doesn't stand out and find there is enough variation in form and design that it doesn't all blend together. Ironically, clewes' contribution happens to be the least box like. I expect simple clean lines because A. It KPMB B. two towers on a small site and C. the ever shrinking unit sizes

You're just a few decades out-of-date with respects to the new world order. Us stonecutters made Steve Gutenburg a star long time ago.

We also control the British Crown, keep the Martians under wraps and hold back the electric car, amongst other things.

I wonder how many get the reference Valantino?

I keep checking threads that go bold only to keep reading things that have nothing to do with the developments.

That's all I have to say.

Entertaining, isn't it?

Do they still rig every Oscar night?

We also control the British Crown, keep the Martians under wraps and hold back the electric car, amongst other things.

I wonder how many get the reference Valantino?

Hopefully alot. I went with it because it's so popularize. My last few Star Trek references fell on deaf ears. I guess you need a fat moron, a talking dog, and a baby with a football for a head for them to work.

Staff Report / Preliminary Report with massing renders - May 31, 2010

http://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2010/te/bgrd/backgroundfile-31168.pdf

I cannot find the Thread but this is breaking just off the wire.

http://newswire.ca/en/releases/archive/July2010/28/c6973.html

The Delta Hotel, Bremner Tower and 18 York will make up the Southcore Financial Centre which is Toronto's newest, mixed-use, sustainable development to be built in the expanding financial district.

Sorry but not sure if this should included in the 18 York thread. I forgot to attach the details from the release.

Southcore Financial Centre; a New Business Address in Toronto's Emerging Southcore Financial District
TORONTO, July 28 /CNW/ - British Columbia Investment Management Corporation (bcIMC) announced today its newest development project, Southcore Financial Centre (SFC), a major, mixed-use complex to be built in Toronto's emerging southcore financial district.

Encompassing a full block in the southern part of the downtown core from York Street to Lower Simcoe Street and within walking distance of King and Bay, SFC will feature three distinct towers, including 18 York and the soon-to-be constructed, 30 storey, 700,000 sq. ft. Bremner Tower, and Delta Toronto - a next-generation, premium 4-star hotel. The project will be developed by GWL Realty Advisors Inc. with the ground breaking scheduled in Winter 2010.

"Southcore Financial Centre will be built to reflect the changing priorities of today's globally connected and community-focused tenants," said Chuck Swanson, vice president, Real Estate, bcIMC. "This project demonstrates bcIMC's longstanding commitment to sustainable developments that benefit tenants, the local community and the environment at large."

Southcore Financial Centre will provide an enclosed pedestrian link to Union Station, the PATH network and the Metro Toronto Convention Centre. All of the towers will be connected via more than 14,000 sq. ft. of urban forest areas and pedestrian walkways.

"When the full block is completed in 2014, this integrated mixed-use complex will encompass everything a forward-thinking downtown office tenant should value - highly efficient office premises, convenient retail and restaurant amenities, and adjacent 4-star hotel and conference facilities - all designed with state-of-the-art technologies and sustainable features," said James Midwinter, executive vice president, Development, GWL Realty Advisors. "Anchored by PricewaterhouseCoopers (PwC) at 18 York, Southcore Financial Centre will become a major business address in Toronto's expanding downtown."

The office component of this project, representing 1.4 million sq. ft., has been designed by award-winning KPMB Architects. Their vision has been to create architectural continuity between the towers while also achieving rigorous sustainable LEED(R) Gold standards.

"PwC is looking forward to the relocation of our downtown Toronto offices to 18 York Street in the Fall of 2011," said David Forster, PwC's GTA managing partner. "The announcement of the two additional towers on Bremner Boulevard adds additional excitement to our upcoming move to the southcore financial district for both our people and our clients."

Standing at 45 storeys and connected to the two office towers of SFC, the new Delta Toronto designed by Page + Steele / IBI Architects will be a showpiece within the complex. Spectacular views of the lake, downtown skyline or CN Tower will be visible from every room in the hotel.

The Delta Toronto was designed to exceed the changing expectations of the modern traveler. It will provide 566 oversized guest rooms, which will be larger than what is normally provided in 4-star hotels, including 24 luxurious extended-stay suites for travelers who are in the city for a longer period of time. The hotel will feature the latest in sustainable design, high-tech conference and meeting facilities, extensive fitness and spa facilities, as well as wireless capability from top to bottom.

"The Delta Toronto will give travelers what we know they want from a city hotel - quick access to business and entertainment districts, convenient connections with transportation hubs, and a living environment that caters to their every need," said Hank Stackhouse, president and CEO, Delta Hotels and Resorts. "This will be a perfect hotel choice for convenience, connectivity and outstanding service for which Delta is known, whether you're staying in Toronto on business or just for a weekend of fun."

The new Bremner Tower is projected to be completed by December 2013, while the new Delta Toronto is slated to open in Fall 2014. 18 York will be ready for occupancy in Fall 2011.


About bcIMC


bcIMC is an investment management corporation based in Victoria, British Columbia, and manages a global investment portfolio of $80 billion. Supported by industry-leading expertise, bcIMC invests in all major asset classes, including infrastructure and other strategic types of assets. Its clients include public-sector pension plans, the Province of British Columbia, public trusts and insurance funds. For more information, visit www.bcimc.com.


About Delta Hotels and Resorts


A leading Canadian hotel management company, Delta Hotels and Resorts operates and franchises a diversified portfolio with 45 full-service, city centre and airport hotels and resorts under the Delta brand. Widely regarded as Canada's "brand of choice" by guests and owners, Delta also distinguishes itself as an exemplary employer. It is the only hotel company to have been recognized for its sustained focus on business excellence by the prestigious National Quality Institute with three Canada Awards for Excellence, including the award program's highest honour, the Order of Excellence (2007). The company also consistently ranks as one of the country's best employers in The Globe and Mail's Report on Business annual "50 Best Employers" list (2001-2003, 2005-2010). As well, its Corporate Social Responsibility platform, Delta Helps, includes a chain-wide commitment to the communities it serves through a national partnership with Habitat for Humanity Canada, participation in the Hotel Association of Canada's Green Key Eco-Rating program, and work with various other charitable groups.

This is pretty exciting news! I wonder what the new Delta is proposed to look like....

Here you go TB...

But keep in mind this is probably very preliminary. Colours and details will most likely be modified.

Left to right are: The Delta Hotel, Bremner Tower, 18 York and far right is Telus.

http://urbantoronto.ca/picoftheday/images/SouthcoreFC750.jpg
(Courtesy interchange42 at UT )

Oh, and here is the City Application PDF. It shows these projects in context.

http://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2010/te/bgrd/backgroundfile-31168.pdf

Holy eff... They're building the office tower on spec? Pretty impressive scheisse right there.

I don't think Toronto has seen a tall, fully hotel, building built in a very long time.

hey, there's a not so subtle crease in the Delta tower's facade! so this not just a collection of banal glass towers! :banana:

It's good news I just wish it wasn't all glass boxes. How about something a little different, like colour and curves? Thank god for ice, or that area would be nothing but dull, glass cubes.

Bremner tower is especially disappointing ...

The news report says 45 storeys but the report says 47, what is the height in metere?

Toronto to get new office tower and hotel near Union Station
Published On Wed Jul 28 2010

The Delta Hotel, Bremner Tower and 18 York will make up the Southcore Financial Centre, Toronto's newest, mixed-use, sustainable development to be built in the expanding financial district.

By Tony Wong Business Reporter

Toronto’s financial district is shifting southward with the announcement of a major redevelopment near the Air Canada Centre.

British Columbia Investment Management Corp., which manages pension funds for the western province, announced it is building a mixed-use complex consisting of office buildings and a new Delta Hotel on Wednesday.

When completed in 2014, the area from York St. to Lower Simcoe St. will have three towers, comprising two office buildings and the hotel.

“This is a large scale project and it speaks to the confidence of the market,” said Pierre Bergevin, president of commercial real estate consultants Cushman & Wakefield. “The fundamentals have been very good for Toronto and this is an expression of that confidence.”

The development, however, is being announced at a time when the national vacancy rate is at the highest level in five years as companies have downsized in the wake of the recession.

Supply is also up significantly. Toronto has seen a spate of office building, including a new tower at 25 York St. anchored by Telus, and a new RBC Tower on Wellington for more than 3 million square feet of new space over the last 12 months.

Vacancy rates in the second quarter for downtown were 6.6 per cent compared with 4.9 per cent from last year, although that has trended down from the 6.8 per cent seen in the first quarter of 2010.

Part of the BCIMC development has already been announced. 18 York, a 26-storey 670,000 square foot tower anchored by PricewaterhouseCoopers (PWC) is already under construction.

That will be joined by a 30 storey, 700,000 square foot building, the Bremner Tower, according to the Wednesday announcement. A 45-storey four star Delta Hotel will be in an adjoining tower and connected to the two office buildings. It will have 566 guest rooms, making it one of the largest hotels in the city.

Moreover, the new development means that the financial core is being stretched south of the railroad tracks, as some companies believe that it is no longer essential being on Bay St.

“Employees are close to transportation, amenities and entertainment and you’re getting an interesting mixed use neighborhood in a sometimes overlooked part of the city,” said Bergevin.

The PWC building is expected to be completed in 2011, while the Bremner Tower is expected to be completed in 2013. The hotel should be finished by 2014.

The entire complex has been named the Southcore Financial Centre and is being managed by GWL Realty Advisors. The project will have an enclosed pedestrian link to Union Station, the PATH Network and the Metro Convention Centre.

Ground breaking for the Bremner Tower is expected this fall.

The office market is seen as a lagging indicator as it takes time for companies to regroup and rehire after a recession. Meanwhile, strong employment numbers, particularly in the financial sector, have given developers hope that the market will bounce back.

http://www.thestar.com/business/article/841499--toronto-to-get-new-office-tower-and-hotel-near-union-station?bn=1

By interchange42 on UT.

Bremner Tower Forecourt:

http://urbantoronto.ca/picoftheday/images/SouthcoreFCBremner1334.jpg


Southcore Financial Centre with Delta Toronto Hotel, Bremner Tower, and PricewaterhouseCoopers Tower:

http://urbantoronto.ca/picoftheday/images/SouthcoreFC750.jpg

I took these photos today from my friend's balcony.. sorry about the mediocre quality, BlackBerrys are not exactly known for their cameras. :)

Bremner Tower site:
http://img821.imageshack.us/img821/5324/img00019201007311801.jpg

Bremner Tower and Delta Toronto site:
http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/8486/img00020201007311801.jpg

Delta Toronto site:
http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/9896/img00021201007311801.jpg

I also have a shot of 18 York that I'll put in that thread.

I love the scale of the base of the office tower. It would have been nice if they had decided to clad the entire building with what we see on the lower left side. The pixelated glass treatment.

Excellent...I have always wanted to see an expantion of the skyline south.

I love the scale of the base of the office tower. It would have been nice if they had decided to clad the entire building with what we see on the lower left side. The pixelated glass treatment.

YES! a pixel camo building would look amazing!

STAFF REPORT - Rezoning Application – Final Report - July 29, 2010

http://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2010/te/bgrd/backgroundfile-32454.pdf


Highlights:

The subject property will have a PATH route through the property and be connected
via the PATH system to Union Station, the Metro Convention Centre and York West
and East Teamways. The PATH system will connect the property to the St. Andrew
and Union TTC subway stations.

[T]he proposed completion of the PATH system through the building furthers the
City of Toronto’s objectives in this regard as well as the pedestrian connections in the area.

The proposed heights of the hotel and office building are 159.79 m and 135.45 m respectively.
This represents an increase over the existing permission of 98 m for the entire property.

how many floors will that mean then?

YES! a pixel camo building would look amazing!

i saw and snapped pics of this pixel clad building in Vienna a month or so ago.
day:
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4101/4876280870_182eb95053_z.jpg
nite:
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4078/4876283812_ecae429de3_z.jpg

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm..... I'm verging on getting a little tired of LED lighting. They are going crazy with it in Asian cities, and it is starting to get over the top.

Will this hotel be replacing the Delta Chelsea? That's prime land. Would be a great spot for a signature building....

Doubt it.. the Delta Chelsea has been a wildly successful hotel, and is either the biggest or one of the biggest in the city.

Will this hotel be replacing the Delta Chelsea? That's prime land. Would be a great spot for a signature building....

What he said. I doubt it as the current Delta Chelsea is not only the largest Hotel in Canada but in the commonwealth and has more then double the guest rooms this new tower will have. I think the new Tower will more likely be an upscale version.

New Tower - 566 rooms
Current location - 1,590 rooms

how many floors will that mean then?

45 floors for the hotel, 30 floors for the office tower. Not very tall but fills in the skyline nicely and adds density.

45 floors for the hotel, 30 floors for the office tower. Not very tall but fills in the skyline nicely and adds density.

Nice and true. Thank you Elk

@TB: you don't like LED lights? lol ... try Whiz Hotel in London, UK. That is worst.

I like LED lighting, but if it gets overdone it is going to be garish. It has been already overdone in some cities.

Like Hong Kong :)

Doubt it.. the Delta Chelsea has been a wildly successful hotel, and is either the biggest or one of the biggest in the city.

It could do with a major over haul though. Something like that new Marriott/Ritz-Carlton in Los Angeles would look great.

It has a cheap n' cheerful reputation, but definitely could use a major sprucing up.

Delta is nice - how about a Conrad Hilton though....

http://conradhotels1.hilton.com/en/ch/brand/newHotels.do#FORTH08

Posted on Nov 26, 2010 by Ed007Toronto on UT.

http://urbantoronto.ca/picoftheday/images/SouthCoreRend1.jpg

http://urbantoronto.ca/picoftheday/images/SouthCoreRend2.jpg


Posted on Nov 27, 2010 by CanadianNational on UT.

From their website:

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x11/CanadianNational/sfcdelta1.jpg

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x11/CanadianNational/sfcdelta2.jpg

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x11/CanadianNational/sfcdelta4.jpg

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x11/CanadianNational/sfcdelta5.jpg

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x11/CanadianNational/sfcdelta3.jpg


By wyliepoon on UT from Dec 4, 2010.

Here are the Google Earth renders after adjusting the heights of the Delta and Bremner towers.

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5126/5220250720_bf50fa2b1a_b.jpg

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5089/5220250914_76ab6081a5_b.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4088/5219658715_457180fdd5_b.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4092/5219658485_8bf43d6404_b.jpg


By Jasonzed from Nov 28, 2010

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii108/jasonzedd/Toronto/11282010126.jpg

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii108/jasonzedd/Toronto/11282010094.jpg


Posted on Nov 27, 2010 by yyzer on UT.

Press release from today......

Southcore Financial Centre celebrates milestone with topping-off of PwC Tower at 18 York Street and groundbreaking event
Construction of flagship Delta Toronto and Bremner Tower set to begin in December 2010

TORONTO, Nov. 26 /CNW/ - British Columbia Investment Management Corporation (bcIMC) announced today the completion and initiation of significant phases in the development of Southcore Financial Centre (SFC) with the topping-off ceremony of the PwC Tower and a groundbreaking event for another office tower and the new flagship Delta Toronto hotel.

The 650,000 sq. ft. PwC Tower at 18 York Street will be headquarters to PwC, a leading accounting and consulting firm, and is scheduled for occupancy in fall 2011. The placing of the final beam on the rooftop of the PwC Tower concludes SFC's first phase of development, involving 542 construction days and a dedicated effort by the EllisDon construction team. Following the topping-off event, a groundbreaking ceremony launched SFC's second phase of development: a second office building — the 30-storey, 700,000 sq. ft. Bremner Tower — and the 45-storey Delta Toronto - a next-generation, premium four-star hotel.

"Today's topping off ceremony and groundbreaking event are important milestones in our commitment to Toronto's emerging southcore district, and the partnerships with the companies that will soon occupy the premises," said Chuck Swanson, Vice President, Real Estate, bcIMC. "With this project, bcIMC is advancing the development of sustainable office space designed to benefit tenants and their employees, the local community and the environment."

Encompassing a full block from York Street to Lower Simcoe Street and within walking distance of King and Bay, the SFC complex will be built to a high level of sustainability with PwC Tower and Bremner Tower targeting LEED® Gold certification.

"With move-in date less than one year away, our people are more excited than ever about the move to PwC Tower," said David Forster, PwC's GTA Managing Partner. "Our new home in Toronto's expanding financial district fits with the firm's commitment to our people, our clients and the environment. PwC Tower brings all our downtown people together, supporting our ability to provide the best service to our clients while creating a collaborative, productive and enjoyable workspace that offers access to public transportation and green design features."

The new Delta Toronto, set to open in 2014, will provide 566 well-appointed, generously sized guest rooms, including 24 extended-stay suites for travelers who are in the city for a longer period of time. The hotel will feature the latest in sustainable design including heat-recovery ventilation, low-flow fixtures, smartcards to control room lighting and air based on suite occupancy, and green roofs throughout the building.

"This four-star hotel will serve as a flagship property for Delta and, through its many innovative features, will allow us to exceed the expectations of our guests," said Hank Stackhouse, president and CEO, Delta Hotels and Resorts. "The Delta Toronto will be strategically located within walking distance to Toronto's financial and entertainment districts, allowing us to fulfill the needs of both business and leisure travellers and connect them to the city in a convenient way."

Centrally positioned between the PwC Tower and the Delta Toronto, SFC's Bremner Tower — projected to be completed by December 2013 — will bridge the adjacent buildings and form the heart of the SFC complex along Bremner Boulevard. SFC's 1.4 million sq. ft. of office space is designed by award-winning KPMB Architects. The Delta Toronto is designed by Paige + Steele / IBI Architects. All three buildings will be connected by more than 14,000 sq. ft. of urban forest areas and pedestrian walkways.

This project is being developed by GWL Realty Advisors Inc. on behalf of bcIMC. To learn more about Southcore Financial Centre, visit www.southcore.ca.

great renders! big investment projects like this continue to confirm Toronto's rosy future! -more office, more hotel... poor cities in decline (like Buffalo) can't even attract a Bass Pro!
Is there another city in the country or the continent with such prospect? - anywhere in the West?

But I'm less than enthusiastic about the designs... :(

I know! Can't we have something that breaks up the blue/green glass monotony? Different materials, different colours, different shape, etc. :?

great renders! big investment projects like this continue to confirm Toronto's rosy future! -more office, more hotel... poor cities in decline (like Buffalo) can't even attract a Bass Pro!
Is there another city in the country or the continent with such prospect? - anywhere in the West?

The flip side is that it's an opportunity lost. All these towers, and not one of them all that special. Even Mississauga put in the effort to build something beautiful and unique: Absolute?

Come on Toronto! We have one of the biggest construction booms going and we still don't have one fabulous piece of architecture to show for it.

remind me again... who is the architect of the Delta project?

from the sloppy* press release above:
The Delta Toronto is designed by Paige* + Steele / IBI Architects.

the Walmart of Toronto architecture, Page + Steele/IBI Group Architects -same guys doing L Tower...

I know! Can't we have something that breaks up the blue/green glass monotony? Different materials, different colours, different shape, etc. :?

We need a return to masonry. Architects have just gotten lazy, at least in this city. Even precast would be better than all this glass. i.e. One Saint Thomas.

from the sloppy* press release above:


the Walmart of Toronto architecture, Page + Steele/IBI Group Architects -same guys doing L Tower...

Great, so I guess L Tower will probably look pretty cheap.

What happened to the design review panel? Have they approved these designs?

Great, so I guess L Tower will probably look pretty cheap.

don't fret, P + S is the local arch for construction drawings, compliance, approvals... Libeskind is the arch of note. it's a joint venture.

nice addition to the skyline.

The article is misleading/incorrect. KPMB is the design architect for Southcore. P+S/IBI is the architect of record.

from today
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii108/jasonzedd/Toronto/20110226074.jpg

The article is misleading/incorrect. KPMB is the design architect for Southcore. P+S/IBI is the architect of record.

As dreary as the renderings look, it could be worse. The British Columbia Investment Management Corporation (bcIMC) might have hired Concord to do it.
Perhaps a series of better looking buildings will eventually encircle this and hide it from view.

I see a lot of block sized podiums. I hope they have retail or something that'll livin' up the streets and give it a human scale. Walking by block sized podiums with nothing really in it seems dreary.

I would think that there would be a ground level PATH connection between these three buildings.

I see a lot of block sized podiums. I hope they have retail or something that'll livin' up the streets and give it a human scale. Walking by block sized podiums with nothing really in it seems dreary.


Yes, a big podium with no retail or public amenities is a good way to destroy a pedestrian friendly area. They should at least put some retail in all those downtown podiums. Most seem to be doing that.

Most new condo towers (excluding Cityplace) in downtown incorporate retail spaces in their podium. This complex won't have any because they are office/commercial use buildings with a more institutional style podium. Hence why the MINT district is dead on weekends.

The Bremner/York intersection and environs will look drastically different in a few years. But pedestrian traffic will be limited as it is a cut-off extension of the business district and the condo developments despite being large, make little attempt to make the area pedestrian friendly. Workers in the office towers will likely walk through PATH and the train station corridor.

I hate the podium on the new Delta. Looks like a somthing you'd expect to see out near the airport. Really dissapointing.

We need a return to masonry. Architects have just gotten lazy, at least in this city. Even precast would be better than all this glass. i.e. One Saint Thomas.
1 Post Road looks great too.
The spandrel on crappy new waterfront/Vancouver condos reminds me of the condo equivalent "Royal Home" prefabricated trailer park things you see all over the midwest U.S.

I would think that there would be a ground level PATH connection between these three buildings.

The PATH connection will be above ground running parallel to the railway corridor. I think they've just finished a pier to support the PATH walkway connecting 18 York St. to the Telus Building. Meanwhile at the other end it's supposed to connect to the SkyWalk, presumably at the Convention Centre's South Buiding.

All that being said, I'm hoping that there will be ground level retail or restaurants to liven the street. It'd serve as a destination/street level interface for PATH traffic.

National Post article:

Building a Boulevard of World-Class Dreams
Peter Kuitenbrouwer, National Post · Saturday, Mar. 5, 2011

http://www.nationalpost.com/news/4388524.bin?size=620x465

....It is rare that city planners have the opportunity to fashion a key urban thoroughfare from scratch, and yet Bremner is such a project: our boulevard of world-class dreams, where the average building is more than 30 storeys high and where, apart from the scrupulously preserved locomotive roundhouse (home to Steam Whistle Brewery and Leon's Furniture), the best example of architectural heritage is the CN Tower.

I spent the day on Bremner Friday, and it occurred to me that, quite by stealth, Bremner is becoming one of the most vital streets in town, especially now that workers have completed a new piece of lower Simcoe, linking Bremner to Front Street under the rail corridor.

On Bremner Boulevard, Toronto's hubris is infectious. Someday all this construction will end, but right now, Bremner is the eye of a hurricane of investment, where every pit in the shale is fertile ground for a new castle of glass....

Read More: http://www.nationalpost.com/news/Building+boulevard+world+class+dreams/4388523/story.html

Those new buildings look lke migits compared with the CN Tower. lol

+ the new aquarium next to the CN Tower, which was left out of the graphic.

March 12th
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii108/jasonzedd/Toronto/20110312107.jpg

http://i899.photobucket.com/albums/ac197/innsertnamehere/Toronto%20march%202011/SAM_0444.jpg

yesterday, by me

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii108/jasonzedd/Toronto/20110326179.jpg

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii108/jasonzedd/Toronto/20110403085.jpg

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii108/jasonzedd/Toronto/20110403087.jpg

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii108/jasonzedd/Toronto/20110403092.jpg

What the hell is that thing? Is it the crane to remove the one atop 18 York?

yip ...or the circus is in town!
i hope somebody gets/posts some pics when it's up; that's a big mother!

It was actually for 18 York...
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii108/jasonzedd/Toronto/20110403036.jpg

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii108/jasonzedd/Toronto/20110403041.jpg

Wow! Were all those people out today? Must have been before or after the ballgame.

Loving those panos Jason.

What a mish-mash of building shapes.

We really need a bit more vision and co-ordination when it comes to planning neighbourhoods.

Nothing in the area flows together.

The whole area is becoming a mess of urban planning.

By interchange42 on UT.

Bremner Tower Forecourt:

http://urbantoronto.ca/picoftheday/images/SouthcoreFCBremner1334.jpg


Southcore Financial Centre with Delta Toronto Hotel, Bremner Tower, and PricewaterhouseCoopers Tower:

http://urbantoronto.ca/picoftheday/images/SouthcoreFC750.jpg



... you know what the problem with the Hotel/Office is?

It' doesn't pay homage to the CN Tower, the convention centre, etc.

This is an edge property, the closest building to the CN Tower ... but not even the suites in the hotel seem to have windows that orient themselves to the tower.

Surely a building next to such a landmark, a park, could do more to acknowledge it's location?

It is all so ugly. I'm not feeling any love for this development. The two office towers are sawed off and chunky looking, and that podium is so incredibly unresolved for the not-as-hideous hotel tower. It is just so ill-thought out.

I don't mind it. Sets up a new feeling at street level and the towers are conservative, but elegant.

thats Toronto, a mish mash of everything side by side, the city works like this on many levels

It is all so ugly. I'm not feeling any love for this development. The two office towers are sawed off and chunky looking, and that podium is so incredibly unresolved for the not-as-hideous hotel tower. It is just so ill-thought out.


I agree. There is nothing here to get excited about unless people feel that anything is better than nothing. I'd rather wait for something special or at least interesting.

thats Toronto, a mish mash of everything side by side, the city works like this on many levels

.. does it?

I find it lends to a brutal streetscape. People are marginalized to thin strips of concrete.

Toronto developers show no ability in paying respect to their surroundings.

Uniform doesn't equal all the same. But this reinventing the wheel design is a joke.

Did we hire the Markham planning department?

See the real problem with Toronto (all N. American cities) ... is the desire for development trumps regulation and esthetics.

Toronto needs a design board. (to be undermined by the OMB)

It is all so ugly. I'm not feeling any love for this development. The two office towers are sawed off and chunky looking, and that podium is so incredibly unresolved for the not-as-hideous hotel tower. It is just so ill-thought out.

... I think most visitors would want a "CN Tower" or "City View" suite.

The Hotel looks straight into the Condo's .. why not angle the building so suites look towards the rail lands.

No imagination.

Bet the architects never have been to Toronto.

I bet you they have, and that its facing that way to take advantage of light and sound. Looking towards the CN tower would be pretty useless as at that height all you'd see is the base.

It is all so ugly. I'm not feeling any love for this development. The two office towers are sawed off and chunky looking, and that podium is so incredibly unresolved for the not-as-hideous hotel tower. It is just so ill-thought out.

The thing is TB, this street is not about the view, it's about getting from point A to B. Most cities have their sports venues outside of the core, we have all of ours downtown. Some streets are meant to be areas for easy flow of traffic. This is a sports venue area and these developments fit in well. As for providing great skyline views it's not going to happen. This development is in a forest of high rises. This is a perfect fit for this smalll section of downtown. (IMO)

It is NOT about getting from A to B.
This street is just being created. With all the urban knowledge and money, each new street should be an EXAMPLE of urban excellence, especially right in the centre of the city.

I totally agree with TB.

Bremner has all the potential to be one of the city's most spectacular street. Standing in the middle you can see the ACC and the jumbo TV on one side, the CN Tower and the 'Skydome' at the other end, and the tips of the financial district in the distance. This is a street that should be striving for architectural excellence and because of how new the area is, there really is the possibility to fashion buildings in highly original ways (there are no historical or height restraints). These buildings just look like infill to me.

The amount of change and developments (complete/underway) at York/Bremner (and environs) within the decade has been drastic. But this group of towers has been a big disappointment and a major missed opportunity. It's decent at best, but rather uninspired. Being on one of central downtown's last large empty lots and in rather prominent location for pedestrian and skyline exposure, this definitely deserved something more creative.

Yeah, I just think this is potentially too important a location to have this type of nondescript filler. There has been so very little thought or effort put into any good design;
very much a wasted opportunity.

With proper cladding and execution I think the buildings together can look quite striking. The fact of the matter is its a hotel and frankly some hotels can't push the bill for cutting-edge design. It has to appeal to the masses, and this is just that. There is a harmony between the claddings, and though not the most outrageous we've seen, the bases provide good cover for pedestrians and give some sense to the human scale involved. Anything too crazy and it would over-shadow the CN Tower and the giant TV at the other end.

To me it is the two office buildings that really jar... they are so squat and clunky looking. Plus, surely they could have given a bit more thought to creating a podium that is somehow related to the design of the hotel. The hotel looks plopped on top of a random box.

This entire development is super ugly. I am not so sure about having the hotel units facing the CN tower though, because in reality it is so close you'd only see the base of the tower, while if they were facing south/north you'd get a good lake/city view which most tourists would intuitively understand.

Thx Matt

Wow! Were all those people out today? Must have been before or after the ballgame.

I was waiting in line to buy a Jays ticket so I figured I take a few snaps for my buddies on SSC:)

This entire development is super ugly. I am not so sure about having the hotel units facing the CN tower though, because in reality it is so close you'd only see the base of the tower, while if they were facing south/north you'd get a good lake/city view which most tourists would intuitively understand.

The lake view would be limited due to the ICE development, plus the other condos along the lakefront.

I wouldn't call the development ugly, but it is certainly lacking excitement.

It is NOT about getting from A to B.
This street is just being created. With all the urban knowledge and money, each new street should be an EXAMPLE of urban excellence, especially right in the centre of the city.

I totally agree with TB.


Sure it IS, when we have teams that actually do well they need to have a pedestrian thoroughfare to keep the crowds moving.This street is to busy with tour bus's and sporting events to be a quaint place to hang out. We have plenty of up coming streets in the Donlands to look forward to. This one is turning out just fine and serves it's purpose well.

It's just brutalistic walls of glass ... only an accountant (or someone from 905) could love these buildings.

It's actually insulting to the people of Toronto that a developer would have the gull to propose this development.

Well comments like that coming from you are not a shocker.

Well comments like that coming from you are not a shocker.

... sorry for having standards. Want me to like anything and everything?

Toronto needs a higher critical standard.

Complacent people have helped us get this "World Class" notion stuck in our collective head to our own detriment.

I guess you prefer development at any cost.

Not at all, but it's comments like this "It's actually insulting to the people of Toronto that a developer would have the gull to propose this development. " that are a little over the top and a typical theme of your posts.

It is NOT about getting from A to B.
This street is just being created. With all the urban knowledge and money, each new street should be an EXAMPLE of urban excellence, especially right in the centre of the city.

I totally agree with TB.

So do I. It has to be about more than getting from A to B.

Toronto city planning has traditionally been solely focused on functionality with little regard for anything else. This kind of thinking is what's left us with so many areas of the city that just aren't engaging on any level. The stereotypical old guard Toronto idea that a building or streetscape only needs to be functional is so frustrating.

Not at all, but it's comments like this "It's actually insulting to the people of Toronto that a developer would have the gull to propose this development. " that are a little over the top and a typical theme of your posts.

... well I presume you think all building proposals look best when all the other surrounding buildings are washed out as if they aren't there.

Toronto architects/developers are devoid of imagination lacking the ability to create buildings that match their location.

The only streets in this city with a unified streetscape were build prior to the 50's.

Prove me wrong.

It's just brutalistic walls of glass ...

There's nothing remotely close to brutalism in this proposal. In fact, based on the way SFC turned out, and the appearance of the renders, we can expect something along the lines of Bay/Adelaide Centre. I actually like the Delta more as they forgoed the box you all fear so much and gave some angles setting up potentially some great reflections. And I bet the natural light inside is superb.

I have a feeling this will be one of those projects that a lot of people will start putting their foot in their mouths as they realize how perfect it is for it's locale.

I don't get it how people don't understand that his strip is for tourists sports fans. It's never going to be a new Little Italy nor should it. It serves it's purpose well and it is at times about mass traffic flow.

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii108/jasonzedd/Toronto/20110309200.jpg

Toronto architects/developers are devoid of imagination lacking the ability to create buildings that match their location.


Prove me wrong.



What should it match? Infinity? Ice? 18 York? The CN Tower perhaps? Maybe the Toronto convention Centre? Bremner is set up for tourists more then any other street in the city. It's a short street with the ACC, TheRogers Centre, Union Station, the Convention Centre, The CN Tower, Steam-whistle and Roundhouse Park, and soon Ripley's Aquarium. To try and turn this into the an Annex style area would be pointless and ill thought out.

As for proving you wrong saying all the good streets were built before the 50's I can name hundreds of shitty ones that were built then as well. Hopefully the West Donlands will be something we all like.

... well I presume you think all building proposals look best when all the other surrounding buildings are washed out as if they aren't there.

Toronto architects/developers are devoid of imagination lacking the ability to create buildings that match their location.

The only streets in this city with a unified streetscape were build prior to the 50's.

Prove me wrong.

That'd be pretty difficult to prove wrong. This lame development is proof.

... well I presume you think all building proposals look best when all the other surrounding buildings are washed out as if they aren't there.

Toronto architects/developers are devoid of imagination lacking the ability to create buildings that match their location.

The only streets in this city with a unified streetscape were build prior to the 50's.

Prove me wrong.

That'd be pretty difficult to prove wrong. This lame development is proof. I don't see how this is any more creative than an office park in Pickering, seriously.

The building may lack "creativity" but anyone with a keen sense can see the quality here over a typical 905 office park. This development should stand the test of time better than some cheap version of the lastest fad you all seeming to be whooing over.

That'd be pretty difficult to prove wrong. This lame development is proof. I don't see how this is any more creative than an office park in Pickering, seriously.

I'd love to see pictures of any office park in Pickering that looks 1/10th as good as this.

Southcore sounds really stupid for this area. Do they plan on infilling the harbour or something? Why isn't this area just included into the Harbourfront like everything else south of the railtracks.

Southcore sounds really stupid for this area. Do they plan on infilling the harbour or something? Why isn't this area just included into the Harbourfront like everything else south of the railtracks.

Southcore = south of financial core.

Well there is quite a bit of land between the 'Tracks and the Gardiner, just before we hit the Harbourfront. Plenty of room for new developments, especially considering it was all barren 5 years ago. This also happens to be one of central downtown's last large empty plots of land. Most of the central waterfront is already in built form, so I see no need for a large office complex to be built there (with exception of Waterpark Place III). The East Bayfront already has plans for residential/mixed use retail usage.

At least they didn't try an 80's hip "SoCore". That would have made me bring up a little in my mouth.

The building may lack "creativity" but anyone with a keen sense can see the quality here over a typical 905 office park. This development should stand the test of time better than some cheap version of the lastest fad you all seeming to be whooing over.

.. latest fad?

Look to the West .. CityPlace has some excellent architecture.

^^

:llama:

are you joking me??? city place, other than parade, has some of the blandest architecture in the city. hopefully their signature tower can fix that a little.. :ohno:

.. latest fad?

Look to the West .. CityPlace has some excellent architecture.


Is that sarcasm?

Yeah sorry mate, CityPlace isn't exactly cutting edge. Couple of buildings are alright, for condos, specifically Parade. But I would take a hundred Delta's over CityPlace.

Yeah sorry mate, CityPlace isn't exactly cutting edge. Couple of buildings are alright, for condos, specifically Parade. But I would take a hundred Delta's over CityPlace.

MattToronto, are you from Britain or Australia? You say 'mate', so it made me wonder.

Yeah sorry mate, CityPlace isn't exactly cutting edge. Couple of buildings are alright, for condos, specifically Parade. But I would take a hundred Delta's over CityPlace.

Hmmm.... don't know about that... that might be a bit strong. There are some decent buildings in Cityplace, but this one is bordering on indecent...

MattToronto, are you from Britain or Australia? You say 'mate', so it made me wonder.

Afraid not. Family is quite irish though so that might have done it. And I've many a'trip to the homeland and talk to my friends there via skype quite frequently, it's sorta stuck.

Hmmm.... don't know about that... that might be a bit strong. There are some decent buildings in Cityplace, but this one is bordering on indecent...

Perhaps not a hundred. I don't mind Cityplace, though I'm moving from it. 4K Spadina and Parade are pretty decent. I honestly don't mind Delta one bit, I know many find it dreary but the small details like the angled facade and what looks like quality glass is enough for me. And the height works well. Sure the podium may sit slightly awkwardly, but I think it will serve the street well upon completion.

mates, Delta this aft.
(btw, hehe, you're not allowed to quick-park or even stop momentarily on the Gardner!)
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5064/5620293702_a003599db4_z.jpg
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5185/5620294134_1733d69fe8_z.jpg

This is Iceberg, mate.
Delta next to the railways, I reckon.

Cheers.

^^ Delta is to the left of SFC which is the building that's topped out behind Ice.

This is one part of town where I would be happy if new buildings DID NOT fit into the surrounding neighbourhood. The last thing we need around there is another boring glass box.

^^ Delta is to the left of SFC which is the building that's topped out behind Ice.

But you can't see the Delta site, maybe a sliver of airspace where it will rise on the extreme left of the frame. It's really a shot of ICE and Infinity.

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii108/jasonzedd/Toronto/20110423128.jpg