Australia third in living standards

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/07/15/1089694487321.html

By Stathi Paxinos
July 16, 2004

Australia is the third-best country in which to live, says a United Nations report released yesterday.

However, as Australia joins Norway (first), Sweden (second), Canada (fourth) and the Netherlands (fifth) as the top-ranking countries, quality of life in Africa has plummeted because of AIDS, with average life expectancy falling below 40 in some areas.

This year's Human Development Index measured a nation's wellbeing by rating 2002 figures for per-capita income, educational levels, health care and life expectancy.

Issued annually, it includes every country for which statistics are available, with Iraq, Afghanistan, North Korea, and Liberia among nations not included because of a lack of data. Australia, Japan at ninth, and New Zealand at 18th, were the only countries outside Europe or North America in the top 20.

The United States was ranked eighth, a fall of one place from last year, with Norway topping the list for the past four years.

The world's newest nation, East Timor, was 158th out of 177 countries. Sierra Leone, emerging from civil war, propped up the list for the seventh year, just below Niger, Burkina Faso, Mali and Burundi.

In Africa, the AIDS crisis had dramatically cut the average life expectancy in many countries, making it the biggest factor in the decline of human development indicators, the report said. "The AIDS crisis cripples states at all levels because the disease attacks people in their most productive years," said UN Development Program head Mark Malloch Brown.

Aside from the overall index, the report produces indicators on women's equality, income inequality and consumption, poverty and other categories that countries use to measure development.

The report, which said 1 billion people belonged to minorities suffering from discrimination, called for countries to follow policies to allow immigrants to become full members of society.

- with agencies

Well that's all nice and good but who cares 'cause it's too hot there.

Yeah, and their seasons are backwards, and the water goes the wrong way down the drain.

we can say the same about you!

We beat Canada, that's all that counts ;)

Yup. We beat Canada once again.

good, but we have a bloody long way to go!

Dude,you came third-the only countries that beat you are ones where the government takes more than half of your money off you,and spoon feeds you everything you need for your whole life !!!

Looks like that's the way to go.

Dude,you came third-the only countries that beat you are ones where the government takes more than half of your money off you,and spoon feeds you everything you need for your whole life !!!

I thought Liberal's objective is to conduct microeconomic reform instead of those Scandinavian welfare system...

I think I'd rather pay 23c tax in every dollar and have the extra spending money,than have some asshole down in Wellington decide what I need and then use 60 % of my money to do it for me.

New Zealand is not a right country for ya?

Nah seriously. Its all about collective wants. NSW is screeming here coz Carr gov't is out of pocket and health is in a bad shape.

Sure. But what do you guys consider 'out of shape' ?

What i was saying in my post is that I like my current low tax rate and ability to choose whether I spend my money on University........or on a car/holidays,other irresponsible fun stuff etc.lol

Economic Problem: It is a term used when there are unlimited wants but limited resources.

Would ya sacrifice health, education, transport, etc just to get some extra penny?

I would sacrifice some health,some education,some transport,to get some extra penny(or rather to KEEP some penny).
It's not as if NZ is a hard place for me to live.......I don't need to be treated like a dependant child for my whole life,I want to earn my money so I can enjoy it doing the things I choose to do. I'm not saying tax should be 0%,but it sure as fuck shouldn't be 50 - 60 % either.

If ya live in a farm or a village, then alright i get ya messege. But if ya live in a town with 50k+ people, then ya wouldn't be saying that.

one thing you have to keep in mind, is those Northern European country's with very high tax, people are compensated by this with very high wages. People do loose around half their wage in tax there, but they also earn at least double, usually triple what one does in New Zealand.

Of cause, a downside of high taxes, and high wages is that prices usually have to be higher.

So, visiting a place like Sweden is very expensive for a New Zealander who pays less tax, but earns far less money. But for a Swedish person the prices are not too bad with the desposible income.

Geez. Foreign companies will have a tough time paying lump sum to employees there.

Hence the success of low taxing nations like Hong Kong in global finance.

Hence the success of low taxing nations like Hong Kong in global finance.

?? And.... Germany, a high tax nation, but with a very important financial focal point as well. Frankfurt is the financial capital of mainland Europe, and the 2nd financial city after London, not exactly a small scale economical area.

I believe a number of the top ten banks in the world are based in Frankfurt.

Do Aussies ever use the word "you" anymore? :?

Everyone in this thread says "ya."

lazy bastards

It's like Eh? for Canadians and Oi! for Americans.

And "la !" for Singaporeans.

Yeah, and their seasons are backwards, and the water goes the wrong way down the drain.

Yanks wear padding and helmets when they play sport. What a bunch of pansies. But I guess it improves living standards for americans, because they don't have to worry about getting hurt.

lol@yob.

lol.

...but still 11,000 die from homicide.

Anyways, just to let ya know HDI is measurement of quality of life, not standard of living. I hate media keeps on saying that HDI measures living standards. Standard of living is measured by PPP$US GDP/cap. HDI uses that but with also life expectancy and education index (literacy+enrolement).

Yanks wear padding and helmets when they play sport. What a bunch of pansies. But I guess it improves living standards for americans, because they don't have to worry about getting hurt.

I really do think it would be interesting to see our boys doff their pads and go after your boys.

I really do think it would be interesting to see our boys doff their pads and go after your boys.

Can we play the game in Australia? I don't want to risk having Aussie football stars getting shot at.

Can we play the game in Australia? I don't want to risk having Aussie football stars getting shot at.

So what happened to that Aussie bravado ? Let's play it in Detroit.

New Zealand mighn't tax as much as Australia, but everythings more expensive

Except asian cars^

Can you buy a Nissan Skyline in Australia ?

The Aussie footballers would be too quick. Catch us if you can.

And not only that, they are hardened to receiving bumps and tackles in the heat of battle without protective gear. The Americans might be bigger, but they are more likey to have a soft under belly.

Don't get me wrong, I think your footballers are tough as nails, but our footballers are so much bigger, stronger and faster that it would be a savage rout, with or without pads.

I mean, seriously, some of our footballers are not of this world - 150kg and they move like little guys.

The average American probably weighs 150kg's.

New Zealand mighn't tax as much as Australia, but everythings more expensive

That's a bit of a generalisation. Some things are more expensive and some things are alot cheaper in New Zealand from what I've heard.

Personally, I didn't notice much difference when I last visited earlier this year. When I lived in NZ many years ago, it was certainly much more expensive than Australia, and lower wages, but it seems not so much that NZ has got cheaper, but Australia has become much more expensive that it pretty much is now in line with NZ.

However, from talking to people, it still seems that wages arn't at the same level of Australia yet.

Don't get me wrong, I think your footballers are tough as nails, but our footballers are so much bigger, stronger and faster that it would be a savage rout, with or without pads.

I mean, seriously, some of our footballers are not of this world - 150kg and they move like little guys.
It is generally recognised in Australia and NZ that the American athletes with Afro geneology and heritage are without doubt a hard act to beat. With the Athens Olympic Games very close we will see similar results for USA. But the Cubans were very impressive in Sydney 2000.

The average American probably weighs 150kg's.

True, but we can lose weight, whereas you guys will always be Kiwis.

Don't get me wrong, I think your footballers are tough as nails, but our footballers are so much bigger, stronger and faster that it would be a savage rout, with or without pads.

I mean, seriously, some of our footballers are not of this world - 150kg and they move like little guys.

That's just your usual American obsession with size talking.

The problem is that in a game like rugby they can't be 150kg giants, as the game doesn't suite these types of players. They must be able to run for 80 minutes and play both offence and defence. Plus the game requires some very specialist positions where size is actually a liability. Halfback is one example. The average halfback is usually around a 80-90kg (190lbs) midget, but that's because his job is to be a nippy little guy who darts around causing mischief, not to be some big brute who runs straight at them.

American Football and a game like Rugby have nothing in common. They can't be compared. It's like rugby guys saying all soccer players are poofs because they are all skinny runts. Well, in soccer, you need to be a skinny runt! Big 150kg guys wouldn't last two seconds in soccer! The same can be said for rugby. Rugby is a game of endurance, not strength and power!

They are totally different types of athletes. Comparing them is a wate of time. It's like comparing a karate champion to a heavyweight boxer.

Of course it's true that our footballers should not be expected to excel in rugby, and vice-versa. That said, our big guys could run down your little guys.

yeah but the crocodile hunter would eat them all for lunch nyah nyah na nyah nyah

yeah but the crocodile hunter would eat them all for lunch nyah nyah na nyah nyah

Now that's where we all agree. Your Steve Irwin is a scary dude. :)

Steve Erwin is our collective village idiot, but unlike the US, he isn't the head of our government. :P

Steve Erwin is our collective village idiot, but unlike the US, he isn't the head of our government. :P

Oh, dear. Had to get that one in, did you ? :)

But now you have to admit, if the "village idiot" has become the most powerful man in the world, then what does that say about the world ?

Unfortunately the ‘world’ never got to vote. So I think it is more of a reflection on those who voted and those who were eligible to vote but never did!

Unfortunately the ‘world’ never got to vote. So I think it is more of a reflection on those who voted and those who were eligible to vote but never did!

The point I'm actually wanting to make is that it is passing strange, all this hatred for one, Bush, who is supposed to be merely stupid.

Perhaps the world is coming unhinged.

Unfortunately the ‘world’ never got to vote. So I think it is more of a reflection on those who voted and those who were eligible to vote but never did!
Voting is not compulsory in the USA, and there would be a lot of people who never voted last time that sure will in November. I wonder what Mr Bush will want to ask Bin Laden, or know from him when he is caught?. In Australia there are a lot of people who supported Bush initially, that now feel damright embarrassed now.Dale, you can fool some of the people some of the time, but not all the time.The US has shown time and again that it is only interested in supporting 'strongmen' with self interests to USA.This works in countries with military dictatorships.The younger voters in various states of USA will vote against the US war machine, and that means the smirking Texan, so prepare yourself for a regime change in November. It will be a rerun of the Kennedy/ Nixon election of 1960.

Of course it's true that our footballers should not be expected to excel in rugby, and vice-versa. That said, our big guys could run down your little guys.

Well that's fair, how about your big guys onto our big guys? Or are you too scared about a result when the odds aren't stacked in your favour?

I guess it's that whole Vietnam syndrome again. The USA doesn't want to fight an even battle ever again after that.

True, but we can <a href="http://www.ntsearch.com/search.php?q=lose weight&v=55">lose weight</a>, whereas you guys will always be Kiwis.

You make a good point Dale,however.....You will always be Americans ! :D

I'm just fuckin withya
Your alright Dale.

New Zealand has been on 18th place for about 15 years now! While other countries go up and down in the rankings NZ just sits there. It would be interesting to see what would happen to the rankings if average free time was included in the equation. The US, Canada, and Australia would take a dive.

Back in 1896, a ranking system that was comparable to this one, ranked Australia and Argentina as the most livable countries in the world.

Those Canadians have always done quite well too,I'll give them that.

Yeah but they play panzy sports like Hockey on ice. On ice! Can you believe it!

lol......and their flag is a leaf for fucks sake. :D

Yeah but they play panzy sports like Hockey on ice. On ice! Can you believe it!
Considering the ground is frozen for 6 months of the year, it would make it difficult to play field hockey, don't you think? By the way, any pansy can run with a stick in their hand on soft grass, but can you skate with a stick in your hand while a 200 pound gorilla is trying to smash your face into the glass?

lol......and their flag is a leaf for fucks sake. :D
At least its our own flag, not a rip-off from our neighbour with our imperial masters flag in the corner. Come on you Kiwi's get original!

The point I'm actually wanting to make is that it is passing strange, all this hatred for one, Bush, who is supposed to be merely stupid.

Perhaps the world is coming unhinged.

I wish he was just only stupid, but he is unfortunately more than that, he is outright dangerous. Look at all the hate he is causing around the world. America is more hated now than it ever has been, even your best allies like Canada, the UK and Australia are beginning to despise you and your self serving ways.

I wish he was just only stupid, but he is unfortunately more than that, he is outright dangerous. Look at all the hate he is causing around the world. America is more hated now than it ever has been, even your best allies like Canada, the UK and Australia are beginning to despise you and your self serving ways.

Yes, we realize how dangerous it can be to piss off Canada. :)

It's not Bush--it's a the evil pack of werewolves that rule behind the throne--Rumsfeld, Cheny, Rice, etc.--put a stake through their hearts (?) and they'd shrivel up like the undead.

But I don't see how the werewolf theory can account for the fact that the world seems to be going along just fine between full moons.

These are the new, improved sugar-free aspartme (tm) werewolves--the werewolf for your busy modern lifestyle, when you simply don't have time to running screaming through the forest with your intestines torn out.

These are the new, improved sugar-free aspartme (tm) werewolves--the werewolf for your busy modern lifestyle, when you simply don't have time to running screaming through the forest with your intestines torn out.

True, true. And I trust that the reflexive America - bashers realize that this is yet another american innovation ? :)

At least its our own flag, not a rip-off from our neighbour with our imperial masters flag in the corner. Come on you Kiwi's get original!

That is original for us kiwis. It took us 20 years to think up a uniform for our rugby team, and in the end we decided on it being all black.

Dale,

Where does your country get off on calling Grid Iron 'Football'? Granted we call Aussie Rules 'Football' too, but at least kicking the ball with the FOOT is a regular occurence in AUSSIE RULES. In GRID IRON, the ball is kicked with the FOOT how many times? I suppose the Super Bowl is aka the 'World Football Championships' too, similar to the WORLD SERIES in Baseball where teams from TWO countries compete.

And just on Grid Iron, no offence, for the world's most boring game, it would have to take first prize. I was at an amatuer Grid Iron game in Adelaide one time watching a friend of a friend play for the Adelaide Razorbacks. The last 4 minutes on the shot clock took about 25 minutes in real time to wound down.

Grid Iron: Start stop, start stop. Call a time out. Commence back in the middle. 79, 65, 72, 63, throw the ball, jump on eachother. Stop. Call another time out. Recommence. 79, 65, 72, 63, throw the ball, jump on eachother. Stop. Call another time out. Recommence. 79, 65, 72, 63, throw the ball, jump on eachother. Stop. Call another time out. And so on, and so on and so on.

Watching grass grow seems more interesting. But then again, thats what alot of people at the game would do, watch the grass grow, through all those time outs and start/stops.

Like I said, no offence.

Dale,

Where does your country get off on calling Grid Iron 'Football'? Granted we call Aussie Rules 'Football' too, but at least kicking the ball with the FOOT is a regular occurence in AUSSIE RULES. In GRID IRON, the ball is kicked with the FOOT how many times? I suppose the Super Bowl is aka the 'World Football Championships' too, similar to the WORLD SERIES in Baseball where teams from TWO countries compete.

And just on Grid Iron, no offence, for the world's most boring game, it would have to take first prize. I was at an amatuer Grid Iron game in Adelaide one time watching a friend of a friend play for the Adelaide Razorbacks. The last 4 minutes on the shot clock took about 25 minutes in real time to wound down.

Grid Iron: Start stop, start stop. Call a time out. Commence back in the middle. 79, 65, 72, 63, throw the ball, jump on eachother. Stop. Call another time out. Recommence. 79, 65, 72, 63, throw the ball, jump on eachother. Stop. Call another time out. Recommence. 79, 65, 72, 63, throw the ball, jump on eachother. Stop. Call another time out. And so on, and so on and so on.

Watching grass grow seems more interesting. But then again, thats what alot of people at the game would do, watch the grass grow, through all those time outs and start/stops.

Like I said, no offence.

No o-f-f-e-n-s-e. :)

Now I do get a kick out of the little guy in the hat and labcoat who gestures wildly with his arms when your blokes kick the ball through the posts.

Lol, so do we. The Goal Umpire.

Goal Umpires are often criticised as being too majestic and overly dramatic, and have also been criticised for seeking the limelight. They know that everyone has their eye on them waiting for the signal, and the tv cameras are focusing on them, so some of them have been accused of taking that extra second to signal a goal.

If they get bumped by a player, or hit by the ball, then its comedy hour. You ever seen a tall building being demolished, and it comes tumbling down, thats how Goal Umpires usually fall when they are struck.

Having said that, they are an important part of the game. If only they could reduce their error rate.

Lol, so do we. The Goal Umpire.

Goal Umpires are often criticised as being too majestic and overly dramatic, and have also been criticised for seeking the limelight. They know that everyone has their eye on them waiting for the signal, and the tv cameras are focusing on them, so some of them have been accused of taking that extra second to signal a goal.

If they get bumped by a player, or hit by the ball, then its comedy hour. You ever seen a tall building being demolished, and it comes tumbling down, thats how Goal Umpires usually fall when they are struck.

Having said that, they are an important part of the game. If only they could reduce their error rate.

I can never watch those guys in action without also thinking about Inspector Gadget. :)

Now I do get a kick out of the little guy in the hat and labcoat who gestures wildly with his arms when your blokes kick the ball through the posts.

They dont wear "lab coat" anymore just T shirts and a cap.

At least its our own flag, not a rip-off from our neighbour with our imperial masters flag in the corner. Come on you Kiwi's get original!

There's a hell of a lot of countries in the world that have the Union Jack and/or Southern Cross in their flags. It's like saying all the countries that have tri-colour flags copied each other - and that the Netherlands just turned the French flag on its side (or vice versa).

That is original for us kiwis. It took us 20 years to think up a uniform for our rugby team, and in the end we decided on it being all black.

I'm assuming it took another 20 years after that to think of a name for the team?

lol......and their flag is a leaf for fucks sake. :D

It makes you wonder if the whole nation has an identity crisis during Winter.

Come to think of it, when the frenchies fuck off and make their own Canada, the plan's been for the american part to join the US all along, hasn't it? Problem solved.

lol

Perhaps if they don't want to be part of the US,or a French Canada........they can move to Greenland,where they would be capable of settling in right away.

But they would have to change their floral emblem to a lichen of some sort.

Considering the ground is frozen for 6 months of the year, it would make it difficult to play field hockey, don't you think? By the way, any pansy can run with a stick in their hand on soft grass, but can you skate with a stick in your hand while a 200 pound gorilla is trying to smash your face into the glass?

You know, he's got a point there. It's just that ice is such an alien thing to us Aussie's and I had no idea that there were gorilla's in Canada. You learn something every day. I think one of the AFL/VFL teams use to be called The Gorilla's many many years ago. Maybe they had a Canadian ice hockey player for a coach?

Gorilla's living in Canada.......that would be cruelty to animals.

There are dolphins in the bloody West Edmonton Mall! THAT'S cruelty to animals!

This thread is hilarious.

There are dolphins in the bloody West Edmonton Mall! THAT'S cruelty to animals!

This thread is hilarious.

Nah we got rid of them. No more dolphins.

There are also a few kangaroo's in the Montreal & Toronto Zoos. Poor bastards come winter time!

It makes you wonder if the whole nation has an identity crisis during Winter.

Come to think of it, when the frenchies fuck off and make their own Canada, the plan's been for the american part to join the US all along, hasn't it? Problem solved.

The country has a bit of an identity crisis 12 months of the year, but we wont go there at the risk of offending the locals.

If Québec secedes from Canada as you so distinctly phrased it, it would still be Québec, just no longer a province of Canada. And what is the American part, is that similar to the American part of Australia? :)

Maybe Canada and Australia are mirrored countries. They are cold, we are hot which explains some of the differences but we both have cool accents and play sports that only animals like gorilla's would like to play if all things were equal. We both sleep with big bro Yankee and take the piss out of him but kinda love him at the same time. Canucks are cool.

Yeah,I got no real beef with Canada/Quebec........ I'm not so sure about their self serving,greedy neighbour to the south on the other hand.

Yeah,I got no real beef with Canada/Quebec........ I'm not so sure about their self serving,greedy neighbour to the south on the other hand.

Oh, 'fess up. You're quite clear in what you believe about Canada's neighbor to the south. You, in fact, are a member of the Cult of Animosity in fine standing. :)

Yeah,I got no real beef with Canada/Quebec........ I'm not so sure about their self serving,greedy neighbour to the south on the other hand.

That's a bit harsh. Ten laps around the field for you, young man! :runaway:

I WISH I was a member of a cult,then I'd have something better to do than sit in front of this screen.

I have such mixed feelings about the US.
I love it's comedy/movies and some of the manufactured products which come out of the country,and there are so many places within the USA I would like to visit.

But being the big,powerful country that it is,the US also steps on a lot of toes,which really pisses me off sometimes.I just wish it would take some responsibility and be a bit more careful,thats all.

I got no probs with the Americans on this forum.

Fair comments! I was just a bit worried you had jumped on the "Bush is evil. Every problem in the world is his fault" bandwagon.

I don't blame that individual at all.
I actually hope he stays for another term because his speeches/addresses are so funny.

But enough about that monkey for now.

How long are you in LA for,are you working there now?
When will you be back in NZ?

I don't blame that individual at all.
I actually hope he stays for another term because his speeches/addresses are so funny.

But enough about that monkey for now.

How long are you in LA for,are you working there now?
When will you be back in NZ?

Yes. I should be back by late September.

I don't blame that individual at all.
I actually hope he stays for another term because his speeches/addresses are so funny.

But enough about that monkey for now.

How long are you in LA for,are you working there now?
When will you be back in NZ?

Latest Rasmussen Poll: Monkey 47% Treebeard 45%

huh ?

huh ?

Monkey = Bush Treebeard = Kerry

Aaaah,Kerry lol

Aaaah,Kerry lol

Yeah, that makes me laugh. Bush would be the most susceptible incumbent president in years and the Democrats run Kerry against him, WTF?
Unfortunately he makes Bush look good, which I thought, would be pretty hard to do.

John Rambo maybe? He was an ex-war vet.

Yeah, that makes me laugh. Bush would be the most susceptible incumbent president in years and the Democrats run Kerry against him, WTF?
Unfortunately he makes Bush look good, which I thought, would be pretty hard to do.

It is rather pathetic at that. Kerry's easily the most ambiguous candidate in recent memory. He's like a footballer running out the clock, afraid of making a fatal error. He's hoping against hope that running as "not-Bush" will suffice to eke out a victory, and that it will not be necessary to provide actual details of his platform which would undoubtably alienate undecideds whose votes are necessary for him to prevail.

John Rambo maybe? He was an ex-war vet.

i don't know about Rambo, but I would not be completely shocked to see a President Schwarzenegger one day.

I thought Rambo since he was a fictitious ex war vet as well. Isn't Kerry marketing himself as some war hero now.

I thought Rambo since he was a fictitious ex war vet as well. Isn't Kerry marketing himself as some war hero now.

Yes, Kerry was a war hero. If you don't believe it, just ask him. :)

I bet he bagged a few charlies with that chin of his.

I bet he bagged a few charlies with that chin of his.

He was sweating profusely during his speech last night. Word is his Botox sprung a leak. :)

I don't think botox leaks...leaks horrible horrible BOTULISM maybe.

Haha, the next President of the United States will be a supervillan who shoots POISON from his FACE!! to BLIND HIS ENEMIES.

It is really hard to imagine Kerry as a president,I don't like Bush-but he suits being the president(my personal perception of anyway).

What is Kerry actually going to do if he wins.........?

NZer, I feel the opposite. I still find it hard to see Bush as a president, he's not very statesman like. Kerry's "I'm not Bush" policy would give him plenty of votes.

Yeah,I know but what I meant was that Bush is so full of shit,he is a born politician.

Bush is like the Captain of the Titanic. It is time for a different person to steer the ship. I was most impressed with Kerry and his wife, Teresa Heinz Kerry, after watching Skynews from Boston.We do not want a repeat of Vietnam and its mistakes when 50,000 Americans were sent to war, and never returned. Teresa Heinz Kerry was born in Mozambique and educated in Johannsburg, South Africa, and is a highly intelligent person, and Kerry is a very humble war hero. My view is that it will be a welcome change to have sombody at the helm, who can see beyond the borders of the state, which is the case with so many Americans.

Bush is like the Captain of the Titanic. It is time for a different person to steer the ship. I was most impressed with Kerry and his wife, Teresa Heinz Kerry, after watching Skynews from Boston.We do not want a repeat of Vietnam and its mistakes when 50,000 Americans were sent to war, and never returned. Teresa Heinz Kerry was born in Mozambique and educated in Johannsburg, South Africa, and is a highly intelligent person, and Kerry is a very humble war hero. My view is that it will be a welcome change to have sombody at the helm, who can see beyond the borders of the state, which is the case with so many Americans.

You're easily impressed.

Yeah! I can quickly figure who is full of hot air, and who is 'fair dinkum'. Bush has been given a fair go, and my verdict is that he is a disaster.

Yeah! I can quickly figure who is full of hot air, and who is 'fair dinkum'. Bush has been given a fair go, and my verdict is that he is a disaster.

Yes, I know. But the hot air caricature is an odd one, given that the standard criticism of Bush is that he's overly frank (and tongue-tied), whereas the standard criticism of Kerry is that he's programatic and demagogic.

So,who else is there to vote for if you aren't a Bush or Kerry supporter.

Shit,I don't even know who I'm going to vote for in my own country's election and yet here I am asking about alternative candidates in the US.lol

It must be painful to you to see so many outstanding Americans supporting Kerry.You must feel like you are hitting your head against a wall.

So,who else is there to vote for if you aren't a Bush or Kerry supporter.

Shit,I don't even know who I'm going to vote for in my own country's election and yet here I am asking about alternative candidates in the US.lol

That's pretty much it. I myself am not a proponent of democracy. And I do think that we Americans have elevated the office of the presidency to a level of power that kings of the past could only dream of.

But given that this will not change, I believe Bush to be the best we have, albeit not the best we *could* have.

And I regard Kerry as the worst we have, albeit not the worst we *could* have.

It must be painful to you to see so many outstanding Americans supporting Kerry.You must feel like you are hitting your head against a wall.

Why would I do something as painful as that ? I've always known that half of Americans are stupid. In fact, one of the remarkable thing about America is that it has risen to become the most luminous civilization the world as ever know - by a wide margin - with half its citizenry stupid. :)

FYI, going into the convention, polls showed Bush with a slight edge, and also an edge in the all-important electoral college. Kerry is expected to get a bounce from the conventio, which, if it is not decisive, could spell trouble for him.

I don't think botox leaks...leaks horrible horrible BOTULISM maybe.

Haha, the next President of the United States will be a supervillan who shoots POISON from his FACE!! to BLIND HIS ENEMIES.

That would be Hillary Clinton. :lol:

Why would I do something as painful as that ? I've always known that half of Americans are stupid. In fact, one of the remarkable thing about America is that it has risen to become the most luminous civilization the world as ever know - by a wide margin - with half its citizenry stupid. :)


I'm sure, for their time, numerous other civilizations, including the Roman Empire, the British Empire, the Egyptian Civilization, the Aztecs, the Chinese etc, also were under the impression that they were "the most luminous civilization the world has ever known". I don't know who would rightfully recieve that title, but I very highly doubt it would be handed to America.

Why would I do something as painful as that ? I've always known that half of Americans are stupid. In fact, one of the remarkable thing about America is that it has risen to become the most luminous civilization the world as ever know - by a wide margin - with half its citizenry stupid. :)

FYI, going into the convention, polls showed Bush with a slight edge, and also an edge in the all-important electoral college. Kerry is expected to get a bounce from the conventio, which, if it is not decisive, could spell trouble for him.

I would personally give that title to the Chinese or the Romans.

As for Bush or Kerry...I would choose Bush. Not that that's saying much. They both suck. Kerry just strikes me as false. At least Bush wears his heart on his sleeve, for better or worse.

I'm sure, for their time, numerous other civilizations, including the Roman Empire, the British Empire, the Egyptian Civilization, the Aztecs, the Chinese etc, also were under the impression that they were "the most luminous civilization the world has ever known". I don't know who would rightfully recieve that title, but I very highly doubt it would be handed to America.

I see America as being just part of Western Civilisation, not a civilisation in itself. If you look at how far the West has come in 200 years or so I'd say it's the most 'luminous'...that's kind of a dodgy word though.

I'm sure, for their time, numerous other civilizations, including the Roman Empire, the British Empire, the Egyptian Civilization, the Aztecs, the Chinese etc, also were under the impression that they were "the most luminous civilization the world has ever known". I don't know who would rightfully recieve that title, but I very highly doubt it would be handed to America.


I just don't see how it could be otherwise, taking into account wealth, power and cultural influence, and this coming from an American who has many criticisms of his country.

I suspect you can't see it ... because you're in it.

Dale, I think you are massively overestimating american power and influence, and this comes from someone who is quite positive about america.

Culturally, hmm I cant see that, how?
Sports? I couldnt name a single baseball player, though I could talk for a long time about english football or cricket and of course what goes on in my own country.
Food? well I prefer indian actually and then quite a few other non-american, but well you are right there are McDonalds next to the motorways where people mainly eat if they are really busy and are then almost embarrased by it.
News: quite frankly, I never get news from any american source even when being positive about the country I wouldnt want that biased stuff. Beyond my own country it would be the BBC,SKY and Times newspaper.
TV: perhaps a bit, but not very much. again mostly my own country then probably british stuff. perhaps some american, but not much. Lots of american crap on during the daytime but not watched by many.
Films: this is probably the best bet, as I do watch and enjoy american movies, though again it aint that many, but at least its an area where the US can be connected to quality.
Music: perhaps, but US is down the line
Come to think of it I am rather under the influence of Britain.

Please explain to me where this massive cultural influence is?

Economically the EU is bigger than the US and only recently Bush had to ditch some illegal steel tariffs to avoid a trade-war with the EU which would hurt both sides but mostly the US. Or that sad attempt to punish foreign companies dealing with cuba which everyone just ignored and US could do nothing.

Militarily the US is superior, but how much can be achieved by that? Might can no longer be achieved by force. You are having plenty of problems from the invasion of one small extremly poor country (something I supported incidently)which may well determine the outcome of the US elections. There are very few countries you actually can force into doing anything and certainly not through military threats. You cant even get North Korea under control.

The british empire was way way more powerful than the US is today

You're easily impressed.

You havent disappointed me Dale in supporting one of the most stupid and worst Presidents that the USA has had to suffer.
Then again Bush the former drunk is now a born again Jesus loving freak. Any politician thats is a religious fanatic like Bush or Sharon and Arrafat are the most dangerous of all.

You havent disappointed me Dale in supporting one of the most stupid and worst Presidents that the USA has had to suffer.
Then again Bush the former drunk is now a born again Jesus loving freak. Any politician thats is a religious fanatic like Bush or Sharon and Arrafat are the most dangerous of all.

And likewise, friend, you never disappoint, being the font of tired cliches that you are.

Maybe we're good for one another. :)

Dale, I think you are massively overestimating american power and influence, and this comes from someone who is quite positive about america.

Culturally, hmm I cant see that, how?
Sports? I couldnt name a single baseball player, though I could talk for a long time about english football or cricket and of course what goes on in my own country.
Food? well I prefer indian actually and then quite a few other non-american, but well you are right there are McDonalds next to the motorways where people mainly eat if they are really busy and are then almost embarrased by it.
News: quite frankly, I never get news from any american source even when being positive about the country I wouldnt want that biased stuff. Beyond my own country it would be the BBC,SKY and Times newspaper.
TV: perhaps a bit, but not very much. again mostly my own country then probably british stuff. perhaps some american, but not much. Lots of american crap on during the daytime but not watched by many.
Films: this is probably the best bet, as I do watch and enjoy american movies, though again it aint that many, but at least its an area where the US can be connected to quality.
Music: perhaps, but US is down the line
Come to think of it I am rather under the influence of Britain.

Please explain to me where this massive cultural influence is?

Economically the EU is bigger than the US and only recently Bush had to ditch some illegal steel tariffs to avoid a trade-war with the EU which would hurt both sides but mostly the US. Or that sad attempt to punish foreign companies dealing with cuba which everyone just ignored and US could do nothing.

Militarily the US is superior, but how much can be achieved by that? Might can no longer be achieved by force. You are having plenty of problems from the invasion of one small extremly poor country (something I supported incidently)which may well determine the outcome of the US elections. There are very few countries you actually can force into doing anything and certainly not through military threats. You cant even get North Korea under control.

The british empire was way way more powerful than the US is today

Or to put my argument another way: The fish never sees the water. :)

Question:How did Hawaii end up being a state of the USA?

What were the Hawaiins doing in the war of independence.......eating coconuts and sunbathing?

Question:How did Hawaii end up being a state of the USA?

What were the Hawaiins doing in the war of independence.......eating coconuts and sunbathing?

I'm not altogether sure, but I know these people are not happy about it:

www.whatreallyhappened.com/HAWAII/hawaii.html

Not all just palm trees and sunshine up there,eh!

Looks like politics and BS have reared there ugly head in Hawaii now too.

And likewise, friend, you never disappoint, being the font of tired cliches that you are.

Maybe we're good for one another. :)

For starters Im not your friend so dont presume so secondly I despise your religious fanatic agenda.
Tired maybe but true all the same.
At least in Australia we still have some sort of seperation of church and state and the majority can think for themselves but if people like you had your way we would all think alike and be religious puppets to some made up religion or other..

Question:How did Hawaii end up being a state of the USA?

What were the Hawaiins doing in the war of independence.......eating coconuts and sunbathing?

Considering the anexation of Hawaii took place 120 years after the war of independance that would be a good assumption.
Remember during the war of independence the US only existed out of serveral states in the north east. For instance California only came to exist 70 years after the US was established (most of the continental US was Spanish territory in 1776).

For starters Im not your friend so dont presume so secondly I despise your religious fanatic agenda.
Tired maybe but true all the same.
At least in Australia we still have some sort of seperation of church and state and the majority can think for themselves but if people like you had your way we would all think alike and be religious puppets to some made up religion or other..

I know you're not my friend. I was just employing the customary condescension that intolerant types like yourself warrant, the kind of people who have few resources other than to ridicule or to make use of crass sloganeering.

I know you're not my friend. I was just employing the customary condescension that intolerant types like yourself warrant, the kind of people who have few resources other than to ridicule or to make use of crass sloganeering.
Now the real you starts to come to the fore.
Your ilk dont like anyone disagreeing with youo and it wasnt so long back you would have had great pleasure to see me burn and go to your famous scaremongering tactic of "hell".I you and your 'God" engender so mucy goodness and love how come you support a criminal conman like Bush ? Maybe because he's such a "good christian" EH?

Now the real you starts to come to the fore.
Your ilk dont like anyone disagreeing with youo and it wasnt so long back you would have had great pleasure to see me burn and go to your famous scaremongering tactic of "hell".I you and your 'God" engender so mucy goodness and love how come you support a criminal conman like Bush ? Maybe because he's such a "good christian" EH?

Your post reads like a tutorial on logical fallacies.

And I never claimed to be Mother Teresa. I'm probably more on the level of Teresa Heinz-Kerry, albeit, without her money.

Geez,now even the threads that are about reality are being fucked up by religious discussion.

Your post reads like a tutorial on logical fallacies.

And I never claimed to be Mother Teresa. I'm probably more on the level of Teresa Heinz-Kerry, albeit, without her money.
I have become very religious lately, and pray to God that Teresa Heinz Kerry becomes first lady at the Washington White House. With all the religious nutters strewn across the USA, the free world longs for sanity.

I have become very religious lately, and pray to God that Teresa Heinz Kerry becomes first lady at the Washington White House. With all the religious nutters strewn across the USA, the free world longs for sanity.

kota, I never had you figured for a religious nutter.

Well, if you have cause to pray to your Goddess Teresa, don't be surprised if she tells you to "shove it !"

Don't say I didn't warn you. :wink2:

I see her as an asset to not just to USA, but whole free world. I saw the bit on Skynews where the reporter was told to 'shove it'. A real media goon!.

I see her as an asset to not just to USA, but whole free world. I saw the bit on Skynews where the reporter was told to 'shove it'. A real media goon!.

She's an asset to the free world because she told a reporter to "shove it" ?

Of course I suppose she'd fit right in with Australia's rough-and-tumble parliament. :wink2:

She's an asset to the free world because she told a reporter to "shove it" ?

Of course I suppose she'd fit right in with Australia's rough-and-tumble parliament. :wink2:
I grant you that about our parliament, our society is rather egalitarian and accountable to everyone. When the Kerry team are in the White House the USA will find it is better connected to rest of the planet.Teresa can speak to many in their own language.

I grant you that about our parliament, our society is rather egalitarian and accountable to everyone. When the Kerry team are in the White House the USA will find it is better connected to rest of the planet.Teresa can speak to many in their own language.

Teresa talks like an egalitarian. But is she ?

What am I saying ? I believe that egalitarianism is a load of wombat manure anyway.

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For one whole minute, we were 'comrades'. :)

What am I saying ? I believe that egalitarianism is a load of wombat manure anyway.
Yes I know what you mean. So what do you get in USA by having optional voting?. Is it 60% who vote and 40% who do not care?.And its normal for the 40% to be 'shoved' by everyone including the media?.

Yes I know what you mean. So what do you get in USA by having optional voting?. Is it 60% who vote and 40% who do not care?.And its normal for the 40% to be 'shoved' by everyone including the media?.
I forgot to mention that wife of John Kerry, Teresa Heinz Kerry, born in Mozambique, Africa in 1938 was educated at University of Witwatersrand, Johannesburg, South Africa. She holds Bachelor of Arts in romance languages and literature (French, Portuguese and Italian). In 1963 she graduated from the Interpreters School at the University of Geneva, Switzerland.

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For one whole minute, we were 'comrades'. :)

It was special, wasn't it ? :)

Yes I know what you mean. So what do you get in USA by having optional voting?. Is it 60% who vote and 40% who do not care?.And its normal for the 40% to be 'shoved' by everyone including the media?.

You Australians have compulsory voting, do you not ? Just out of curiousity, what is the penalty for not voting ?

I think it's nuts myself to force people to vote. There are some people that I do not want to vote. :)

From the AEC website (http://www.aec.gov.au/_content/what/faqs/vote_gen.htm) :

Initially the Australian Electoral Commission (AEC) will write to all apparent non-voters requesting that they either provide a reason for their failure to vote or pay a $20 penalty.

If, within 21 days, the apparent non-voter fails to reply, cannot provide a valid and sufficient reason or declines to pay the penalty, then prosecution proceedings may be instigated. If the matter is dealt with in court and the person is found guilty, he or she may be fined up to $50 plus court costs.
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So essentially it's just a fee for choosing not to vote.

Not at all. All that is required in Australia is for you to turn up to a polling place and have your name checked off. Once they give you the voting form, you can simply crumple it up into a ball and throw it away.

This is exactly what I did in a recent local council election, where ALL 4 candidates in my electorate were ALL campaigning against overdevelopment (read: anything more than 3 storeys anywhere, or anything at all in their street). Since none came close to advocating what I think is a respectable 6-8 storey limit for the area and perhaps 5 storeys near the waterfront, I had no choice but to 'not vote' for anyone.

There should be an offical count of Donkey Votes - the reason being situations like you just suggested Tony P. If the choice of candidates is lackluster - voters need to be given the choice to do the old Brewster "None of the Above!" - Those votes should be tallied and research carried out into why there was no suitable choice of candidate. I have always voted in whatever election (I've never voted in a council election unless u count ACT Gov) just because I didn't want my vote to be a waste no matter the choice between dumb and dumber - but If I was given the op to say "They all Suck" and this opinion would be heard and quantified - I think myself and others would put the donkey vote 2 use.

BTW, I can't say whether Kerry would be good 4 the rest of the world, but I can say if they got rid of Cheney and Rumsfeld that would be a start - those are the guys pulling the strings.

I seriously think I might not vote in NZ's election next year.

Such a bunch of wankers