Interesting news out of Detroit about the Silverdome.

http://media.mlive.com/business/detroit_impact/photo/pontiac-silverdomejpg-8e42f243d1a940cc_large.jpg

http://www.archithings.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/Pontiac-Silverdome-Inside.jpg

http://www.mlive.com/soccer/index.ssf/2010/08/tear_the_roof_off_unique_plans_to_turn_silverdome_into_concert_hall_indoor_sports_arena_soccer_specific_stadium_to_lure_major_league_soccer.html


Quote:
To achieve a reasonable stadium size, the Apostolopoulos family plans to remove the dome and divide the stadium into three sections. At the stadium's ground level, will be a concert hall and a multi-purpose arena, capable of hosting hockey, basketball, and other indoor sports.

Resting on top of those two indoor facilities, will be a roughly 30,000-seat soccer stadium with natural grass. The current upper deck will essentially act as a lower bowl for the outdoor stadium.


Pretty cool if that could be pulled off. It would be one of the most interesting stadium projects in the world.

Edit = Here's a longer story about the Silverdome owner and his plans for the stadium...

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/10_32/b4190064446709.htm?campaign_id=magazine_related

^^ Panathinaikos played a friendly against Inter there 2 days ago and will play another one against Milan

l_Hmeb3ucos

Interesting news out of Detroit about the Silverdome.

http://media.mlive.com/business/detroit_impact/photo/pontiac-silverdomejpg-8e42f243d1a940cc_large.jpg

http://www.archithings.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/Pontiac-Silverdome-Inside.jpg

http://www.mlive.com/soccer/index.ssf/2010/08/tear_the_roof_off_unique_plans_to_turn_silverdome_into_concert_hall_indoor_sports_arena_soccer_specific_stadium_to_lure_major_league_soccer.html


Quote:
To achieve a reasonable stadium size, the Apostolopoulos family plans to remove the dome and divide the stadium into three sections. At the stadium's ground level, will be a concert hall and a multi-purpose arena, capable of hosting hockey, basketball, and other indoor sports.

Resting on top of those two indoor facilities, will be a roughly 30,000-seat soccer stadium with natural grass. The current upper deck will essentially act as a lower bowl for the outdoor stadium.


Pretty cool if that could be pulled off. It would be one of the most interesting stadium projects in the world.

Great idea, but FYI, that dome is in Pontiac, not in Detroit.

^^ Panathinaikos played a friendly against Inter there 2 days ago and will play another one against Milan

l_Hmeb3ucos

No that was in Toronto at the Rogers Centre

It's Rossoneri Milan v Panathanaikos that play in the silverdome tomorrow

A ptetty fascinating idea. What is the number being estimated for the lower bowel? I am assuming that they wouldn't revenoate with any intent to try to host some NCAA's as that would likely go to Ford Field anyway.

I give them a ton of credit for creative use of space, I hope they can pull it off and make a success of it.

The Silverdome is still a serviceable venue.

Game is on Fox Soccer Channel tonight (Friday night) for anyone who wants to see how the place looks now. First televised event from there in a long while.

First televised event from there in a long while.

I'm half-expecting a spider to crawl across the camera lens during the pregame coin flip.

30k ?? the ancient or the new one?

The proposed new one, in its current state the stadium seats around 80,000.

Resting on top of those two indoor facilities, will be a roughly 30,000-seat soccer stadium with natural grass. The current upper deck will essentially act as a lower bowl for the outdoor stadium.

So where is this outdoor stadium? The render only shows an indoor stadium, which is inappropriate for soccer.

So where is this outdoor stadium? The render only shows an indoor stadium, which is inappropriate for soccer.The proposal is to remove the roof of that venue, build a new floor-level so that the upper tier shown in those pictures becomes the only tier of the soccer stadium, with a variety of arena and convention space tucked underneath.

It'd be fantastic adaptive reuse of the building but I'm not sure it's a cost effective investment. There would have to be additional renovations to that upper tier, including adding suites and press boxes and extending the bowl downward to the pitch, but the owners already have the facility paid for, wouldn't need to worry about utility or infrastructure improvements or go through an unwieldy public approval process.

Don't know if it's the best use of his money or if Detroit can sustain a club, but if he's willing to try it I'd be on board with the idea. Such bold thinking often yields big results.

:cheers:

One thing that tells me this isn't going to happen - stormwater.

As the Falcons and Georgia Dome operators are learning right now, there's a lot of thought and $ needed to convert an indoor space into an outdoor arena. Specifically in terms of capturing, funneling and releasing stormwater. Those stands aren't equipped to handle rain, and storm drains are tough to add to the interior workings of an existing structure, to say nothing of the runoff from the field.

If I had to guess, I'd say the cost of that required renovation will be the potential deal breaker.

One thing that tells me this isn't going to happen - stormwater.

As the Falcons and Georgia Dome operators are learning right now, there's a lot of thought and $ needed to convert an indoor space into an outdoor arena. Specifically in terms of capturing, funneling and releasing stormwater. Those stands aren't equipped to handle rain, and storm drains are tough to add to the interior workings of an existing structure, to say nothing of the runoff from the field.

If I had to guess, I'd say the cost of that required renovation will be the potential deal breaker.

True but unlike the Georgia Dome, the new Silverdome wouldn't have to deal with storm water at ground level but about 100 to 150 feet north of that.

So where is this outdoor stadium? The render only shows an indoor stadium, which is inappropriate for soccer.

so inappropriate that it hosted WC matches. If you read FIFA's stadium document, it would absolutely be their dream to have all matches climate controlled(meaning indoors)

True but unlike the Georgia Dome, the new Silverdome wouldn't have to deal with storm water at ground level but about 100 to 150 feet north of that.Yes, but it's still a lot to manage. The slope of the actual levels within the tier may not be conducive to funneling water, and adding drains would need to be fitted around other, existing structural and utility features. Possible, just not graceful.

If you read FIFA's stadium document, it would absolutely be their dream to have all matches climate controlled(meaning indoors) I wouldn't call this an organization-wide ambition. Such structures remain beyond the reasonable means of many cities, especially for the size of venue FIFA wants for the finale. Then there's the whole matter of taste, where for most people (I'd wager) a roof over the stands is more than enough. Too many indoor events can render the sport sterile. And I say this as a fan of a "dome" team (Falcons).

Yes, but it's still a lot to manage. The slope of the actual levels within the tier may not be conducive to funneling water, and adding drains would need to be fitted around other, existing structural and utility features. Possible, just not graceful.

I wouldn't call this an organization-wide ambition. Such structures remain beyond the reasonable means of many cities, especially for the size of venue FIFA wants for the finale. Then there's the whole matter of taste, where for most people (I'd wager) a roof over the stands is more than enough. Too many indoor events can render the sport sterile. And I say this as a fan of a "dome" team (Falcons).

The document describes "ideally" having the players, spectators, stands, completely covered, period. Doesn't matter about taste or sterility. Its what the document says. Since when did FIFA care about the "means" of a city?

And the Vikings and Colts fans would probably like to say hello. I'm sorry, but Falcons fans are not known for their rowdiness. I think that's as strange as soccer fans saying that a stadium without a roof over the stands can't have good atmosphere.

The document describes "ideally" having the players, spectators, stands, completely covered, period.

But it doesn't say that the field has to be covered, which is the definition of an indoor arena.

I really loved this stadium when I watched the 1994 World Cup. Judging by the pictures in the opening post it still looks pretty neat today. Why did the Lions move out? Not enough corporate facilities?

I really loved this stadium when I watched the 1994 World Cup. Judging by the pictures in the opening post it still looks pretty neat today. Why did the Lions move out? Not enough corporate facilities?

Far too large, next to no corporate boxes and a new downtown location.

How on Earth do they think they can have viable convention and arena space beneath a heavy football field - the supporting pillars required to support the weight alone would surely make the bottom level unviable. Not to mention the aforementioned drainage issues. The cost will definitely be way too much.

How on Earth do they think they can have viable convention and arena space beneath a heavy football field - the supporting pillars required to support the weight alone would surely make the bottom level unviable. Not to mention the aforementioned drainage issues. The cost will definitely be way too much.

The weight of a field would hardly be much different than any other solid roof. It would certainly be far lighter than a parking garage + cars. The bottom floor would simply have columns in some areas and free space in others in others. Or they could have a series of steel arches like a hangar running from one end to the other to bear the weight, or even build structural arches running length wise. There are simply many other structures holding far more weight.

Yea, it doesn't need to be terribly high, and arches are unlikely to interfere with a basketball (or volleyball) game, and certainly won't bother convention goers.

A field turf Field on top of a roof probably doubles the weight compared to a standard flat roof. Similar in weight to an extensive green roof, a full natural grass field would be at least double that, so it would take a fair bit of extra engineering, but its certainly not impossible, just expensive.

The bigest problem I see with the soccer stadium, would be that the upper bowl seats are too far away from the field of play. The only way I could see it working is that the soccer pitch is turned 90 degrees so that it is much closer to the seats. That would mean one large bank of seats would have to be removed though.

Yea, it'd be a monster that's for sure.

I agree, the upper bowl is set much further back than the lower. This whole thing stinks.

The bigest problem I see with the soccer stadium, would be that the upper bowl seats are too far away from the field of play. The only way I could see it working is that the soccer pitch is turned 90 degrees so that it is much closer to the seats. That would mean one large bank of seats would have to be removed though.

Why not put in an athletics track as well? ;)

How on Earth do they think they can have viable convention and arena space beneath a heavy football field - the supporting pillars required to support the weight alone would surely make the bottom level unviable. I agree this probably will render the concept possible but not financially viable, but in theory it's only one end that needs to be specially propped for arena and convention space, as the other half would most likely be utilities, storage, etc. To that end, an array of proper arches and/or trusses can minimize the depth of the roof.
I agree, the upper bowl is set much further back than the lower. This whole thing stinks.Again, they'd have to either a) extend the bowl downward to minimize this impact or b) renovate the stands when they add suites so as to tighten the seating.

The odds of this remain long, but the odds of them doing it and simply not touching the upper tier at all are next to nil. Something would be done to improve the seating arrangement.

The Silverdome is in Pontiac, not Detroit and in a different county too.

This transformation of the Silverdome is never gonna work. A small soccer stadium on top of another transformed from one huge football stadium.

i really like it.

A quick update. The owners of the Silverdome have officially (http://www.mlive.com/soccer/index.ssf/2011/06/with_eyes_on_detroit_silverdome_owners_submit_mls_expansion_bid.html) submitted a bid for a MLS expansion team.

From the article...

The renovation, which is the brain child of Steve's father Andreas, who owns Triple Properties, the parent company, is unlike anything in the history of sports and they are anxious to show it off.
"We have the renderings nearly complete and I can't wait for fans to see what this stadium will look like," said Apostolopoulos. "MLS has been amazed with the plans we've shown them."

Detroit Turbos, FC of Detroit, Detroit Automotive, Detrioit Redline, Michigan Monsters, Michigan motors, Detroit Riots, Detroit soul, Motor City FC, GMC United, Detroit Wheelers, Detroit Fords,

Are there any pix of the old Silverdome? Including some nice, panoramic interiors? And have any pix of the new design surfaced?

^ Google ftw.

http://www.williamsauction.com/silverdome/img/SDKey.jpg
http://www.archithings.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/Pontiac-Silverdome-Inside-588x441.jpg

^ Google ftw.
Maybe I should have put more emphasis on the panoramic interiors part.
:ohno:

Can't find many decent pictures of the interior. :(

http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/728/3276516.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/684/3276516.jpg/)

http://img846.imageshack.us/img846/5488/pontiacsilverdomeinside.jpg

http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/7206/bildeu.jpg

http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/5848/pho10jan07197310.jpg

Those are actually better than I have ever seen before. Thanks! So why didn't they come up on my google search? Anyway. The place really is kind of basic, and light on the suites. Are those bench seats down in the corner? Imagine getting a ticket to Super Bowl XVI, and finding out your seat was a bench. I knew someone who went, but he had a nice seat in the third level.

Those are actually better than I have ever seen before. Thanks! So why didn't they come up on my google search? Anyway. The place really is kind of basic, and light on the suites. Are those bench seats down in the corner? Imagine getting a ticket to Super Bowl XVI, and finding out your seat was a bench. I knew someone who went, but he had a nice seat in the third level.

Yes, those are bench seats in the lower corner. IIRC, those were sold on a single game basis, a couple weeks before the specific game day. When I lived in Metro Detroit in the early 1990's, those tickets were like $10-15.

As for having a bench seat, that occured at Stanford Stadium for XIX, and as late as XXVII at the Rose Bowl. For XVI, they were coming off Super Bowls in Pasadena two years prior and it and the Orange Bowl had more seats without chairbacks than with.

Yes, those are bench seats in the lower corner. IIRC, those were sold on a single game basis, a couple weeks before the specific game day. When I lived in Metro Detroit in the early 1990's, those tickets were like $10-15.

As for having a bench seat, that occured at Stanford Stadium for XIX, and as late as XXVII at the Rose Bowl. For XVI, they were coming off Super Bowls in Pasadena two years prior and it and the Orange Bowl had more seats without chairbacks than with.
Yeah, but at Stanford and Pasadena you knew that every seat was a bench seat going in. Apple got high mileage out of their 85,000 seat cushions for the game at Stanford. (An old gf used to live about a mile from there, and she and the siblings went out after XIX and collected about 30 of them strewn about.) At Pontiac I would be a bit perturbed if I was one of the 5% that got stuck with a bench seat for a Super Bowl. There aren't any bench seats at Ford Field, are there?

----------------------

Tampa Stadium was all benches and hosted a Super Bowl

Yeah, but at Stanford and Pasadena you knew that every seat was a bench seat going in. Apple got high mileage out of their 85,000 seat cushions for the game at Stanford. (An old gf used to live about a mile from there, and she and the siblings went out after XIX and collected about 30 of them strewn about.) At Pontiac I would be a bit perturbed if I was one of the 5% that got stuck with a bench seat for a Super Bowl. There aren't any bench seats at Ford Field, are there?

I answered you question, however you are "overthinking" it. The ticket price in 1982 was $40, even with inflation, today it would be $90 in 2011, a price which 50% less than what people pay to sit on a bench seat for the Rose Bowl game (or some college contests). Even in 1982, a fan was not that concerned about having a seatback since that game was in more places without them than with them (Miami, Pasadena, Coliseum, Tulane, Rice)

I answered you question, however you are "overthinking" it. The ticket price in 1982 was $40, even with inflation, today it would be $90 in 2011, a price which 50% less than what people pay to sit on a bench seat for the Rose Bowl game (or some college contests). Even in 1982, a fan was not that concerned about having a seatback since that game was in more places without them than with them (Miami, Pasadena, Coliseum, Tulane, Rice)

You guys are arguing over how people might have felt at an event that happened nearly 30 years ago. Go back and look at how people dressed and their haircuts back then; it's hard to imagine what the hell they were thinking! :lol:

Bench seating was very common back then, not to mention, still really common now in college football. All of us have been to numerous games and had to sit on them. It's not that bad. Besides, the people who sat in those seats at the Silverdome Super Bowl still got to watch the game. I doubt it was nearly the debacle that occurred at Jerry World last year.

Back to the topic, it seems to me the existing upper deck is spread too far out to be used "as is" for the lower bowl of a soccer stadium, but I am intrigued by the idea and looking forward to seeing some renders.

Yea I'd like to see renders as well.

http://www.kckrs.com/wp-content/uploads/silverdome.png

http://www.motorcitysupporters.com/images/aerialrendering.jpg

http://www.mlive.com/soccer/index.ssf/2011/06/with_eyes_on_detroit_silverdome_owners_submit_mls_expansion_bid.html

The renovation, which is the brain child of Steve's father Andreas, who owns Triple Properties, the parent company, is unlike anything in the history of sports and they are anxious to show it off.
"We have the renderings nearly complete and I can't wait for fans to see what this stadium will look like," said Apostolopoulos. "MLS has been amazed with the plans we've shown them."
This would be a first in MLS' relatively short history (the league played its inaugural season in 1996), where the owner is retrofitting a stadium to attract an expansion team.
The construction to pull off the renovation, which will employ as many as 2,500 workers, can be completed very quickly because of the unique arrangement.
"The good thing about these renovations is that 99% of the construction can be done under the dome, so you could have two or three shifts and have construction running 24 hours a day without any weather issues. So if we get approved, things can move very fast."
The bones of the building are in "amazing shape" which bodes well for the transformation, which could be completed in less than a year.
They already submitted an application for an MLS team last June so if they can land one it looks like this project could get the green light.


http://www.detcityfc.com/
https://www.facebook.com/detroitcityfc

Detroit City FC has done very well this year in the NPSL.

The Silverdome roof has collapsed.. this was expected because of it's age and the weather..

Better watch that first link today. It will be hard to find tomorrow.

http://sports.yahoo.com/sportsminute

9Gqput4cEWU

Good news for anyone looking to completely renovate the site, I guess.

If nothing happens soon, though, I wonder how much damage the elements could do to the inside. The interior wasn't designed to handle stormwater or melting snow/ice.

One thing's for sure, this should definitely put an end to "trash bag roofs" for good.

Some college teams (i.e. UT) still use bubbles for their indoor practice facilities.