As I have told you guys I work at the Neiman Marcus at Somerset Collection in Troy, MI. The upscale mall is in the midst of deciding wheter to expand or not? I think an expansion would be great.

What else would you like to see at the Somerset Collection?

The Cheescake Factory?? or What??

It is home to Neiman Marcus, Saks Fifth Avenue, Nordstrom and Marshall Fields, and stores like Gucci, Tiffany & Co., Louis Vuitton, Burberry, St. John, Brooks Brothers, Crate & Barrel, Lacoste, Sephora, Origins, Arden B., Tommy Bahama and lots of others!

Vote on which department store be best for a possible expansion!!

I vote for a Bloomingdale's, the store would be at least 200,000 sq. ft. which is not bad. The others department store sizes are:
Neiman Marcus: 145,000
Saks Fifth Avenue: 160,000
Nordstrom: 230,000
Marshall Field's: 385,000 OMG!!!!!!!! THAT's HUGE!! Third largest Marshall Field's after the 800,000 flagship and 500,000 sq. ft. Northland Mall store in Southfield, MI!

Where would they expand? On the Neiman Marcus side (North I believe)? Is there room for two more dept stores? I say Bloomingdale's. It's already in Chicago and Mpls, why not the third sister (and then they can come up to Toronto) in the Great Lakes. Macy's wouldn't begin an expansion into the Midwest in Detroit, I don't think. Chicago just sounds more logical, and is just a bigger market. Dillard's too hasn't gone into the Upper midwest. I don't think they will for a while, or unless someone (ie. Federated) purchases them. Lord and Taylor seems to be shutting some more quickly than opening them. I doubt they're too keen on opening up new markets now anyway, having just left Miami and Denver. Von Maur can't compete with the creme de la creme, in my opinion. How about a Cheescake Factory, PF Chang's China Bistro, H&M, Zara, Restoration Hardware (if it's not there already), and Old Navy (cause everyone needs cheap socks).

hmm......

I don't have much of a preference, but dear lord not dillards, the stores in cleveland are run like crap and have the absolute worst buyers ever.

Anywho, i heard rumors (way back, and definately rumors) that one of somerset's neighbors (k-mart, that bank, etc.) was looking to build a new location, therefore land would be freed up for a somerset expansion.

Also, detroitboy, what dept. are you in at neiman?

I'll just stick to Lakeside or Oakland Mall. Serious, tho, I'm really not white trash :)

I don't thinnk Lord and Taylor would be good, they are closing a lot of them down. The Lord and Taylor at theGalleria in Houston is closing down and is turning into a new department store possibly. I say Somerset should get Bloomy's.

Hey, Oakland Mall is a lot better than Southland Mall in Downriver. Our anchors are: J.C. Penny, Mervyn's, and Marshall Field's.

Bloomingdales will be great for Michigan!

Btw, anybody has an idea when they gonna expand the Somerset??

Cheesecake Factory definitely need to open a store in Michigan.

Whats wrong with lakeside mall, that mall has nice stuff, I live like 5 mins from there.

Somerset doesnt need to expand. We need to focus on a new retail center in southeast michigan and it should be in Detroit. I cant stand Somerset anyway, the place reeks of arrogance.

Well, the Kmart HQ is being sold. Is there a buyer yet? It's so close to Somerset that it could be a third wing. Bloomingdale's, Lord & Taylor could anchor. L&T maintaining its Detroit/Midwest presence.

Somerset needs a Cheesecake Factory.

It would be nice to see them add another upscale anchor at Somerset. Somerset should set the standard for fashion. It is a leading mall already in the US.

Michigan needs to do a better job of using leverage to get companies to locate in Michigan.

If a new Cobo Hall were built off the River, the existing Cobo could be transformed into a Mall with a Hotel downtown, its the perfect size for it, and that would bring tax revenue to Detroit. Why not save the Macy's for downtown Detroit's mall with one other anchor? The existing Cobo could be transformed into a mall like the one downtown Norfolk. VA called MacArthur Center which has just two nice anchors. That is a model Detroit can use for development.

http://www.shopmacarthur.com/

Federated will already have had a store in Somerset, Marshall Field's. It's not been decided what's to become of the Field's name, so in fact, it very well could become a Bloomingdale's or Macy's. I think Detroit needs Federated than the other way around right now. I don't know if a flagship Macy's would work that well in Downtown Detroit right now.

Federated will already have had a store in Somerset, Marshall Field's. It's not been decided what's to become of the Field's name, so in fact, it very well could become a Bloomingdale's or Macy's. I think Detroit needs Federated than the other way around right now. I don't know if a flagship Macy's would work that well in Downtown Detroit right now.

Did Marshall Field's make some agreement to keep their name when they sold to May? And do the Somerset Mall owners have any say over the name change? If so Federated won't beable to change the name so easily?

Federated probably wants to use the Macy's name.

Somerset needs a Cheesecake Factory.

It would be nice to see them add another upscale anchor at Somerset. Somerset should set the standard for fashion. It is a leading mall already in the US.

Michigan needs to do a better job of using leverage to get companies to locate in Michigan.

If a new Cobo Hall were built off the River, the existing Cobo could be transformed into a Mall with a Hotel downtown, its the perfect size for it, and that would bring tax revenue to Detroit. Why not save the Macy's for downtown Detroit's mall with one other anchor? The existing Cobo could be transformed into a mall like the one downtown Norfolk. VA called MacArthur Center which has just two nice anchors. That is a model Detroit can use for development.

http://www.shopmacarthur.com/

No offense but that is a horrible idea. First if Cobo is moved the city should tear down that facility and replace it with park land and residential. We dont need to have that building take up valuable waterfront space for a mall. And a mall that size smack in the middle of downtown would just about kill store front businesses. We need foot traffic downtown, not just another place for people to stop by then leave when they are down. Detroit retail needs to be spread out and in store fronts or like the GM Wintergarden. You cant have a retail center like that in Detroit. It would do more harm than good.

No way would a mall have anything to say over what a department store calls itself. And the Field's name, as Federated puts it, is being considered. THey're basically wondering how much value it'd add or decrease. Macy's is being rolled out everywhere else in the US, and the markets of Chicago, Detroit and Minneapolis would be the exceptions. They're wondering if it'll alienate customers (I don't think it matters in Detroit and Minne anyway, since they lost their Hudson's/Dayton's chains anyway).

No offense but that is a horrible idea. First if Cobo is moved the city should tear down that facility and replace it with park land and residential. We dont need to have that building take up valuable waterfront space for a mall. And a mall that size smack in the middle of downtown would just about kill store front businesses. We need foot traffic downtown, not just another place for people to stop by then leave when they are down. Detroit retail needs to be spread out and in store fronts or like the GM Wintergarden. You cant have a retail center like that in Detroit. It would do more harm than good.

Downtown Detroit needs an upscale Mall on the quality of Somerset. The successull example of this is MacArthur Center in Norfolk, VA. People actually visit downtown Norfolk, VA now and don't just shop the suburbs. Detroit has a rough winter too.

I share your concerns over a need for more residential high rises, making a better waterfront, and more foot traffic. But doing what is possible is better than no change, and tearing it down would consume dollars needed for the West River and bring no revenue. Hart Plaza would still need access to parking if Cobo wasn't there, and parking garages are expensive. Also, it is unlikely that Hart Plaza itself would be the site for exlusive residential High Rises, but a Hotel Tower or Corporate Office Tower keeps Hart Plaza open for tourism and would make an attractive addition to the balance the skyline. High rise developers are more likely to be interested in Detroit if there were an upscale mall development in Downtown that residents could access. An indoor alternative would help Detroit maintain year round tourism during the winter months, and it would increase perceived safety.

A mall hasn't hurt store front business where little or none exists in other cities, in fact it has helped those cities see an urban renaissance as it has in Norfolk, VA. Foot traffic is already present from the sports venues, but patrons need more than Greektown to explore. A mall on the Cobo site would save the East River for more parks and residential space. We keep hearing these finite themes that Detroit can't grow, and that is not so. Store front business would benefit from the year round traffic an indoor mall would bring. Macy's would want to be in a mall in the winter. Suburban Malls are what closed Hudson's downtown Detroit with no winter business. So unless downtown builds an upscale mall, it won't ever attract those customers again.

Hart Plaza would benefit from a mall/hotel combination. There are other options, like selling the property for a headquarters for a major company to relocate in Detroit. The existing Cobo site would provide Detroit a property to lure developers. There is plenty of space on the West River for more residential high rises and parks. A section of the river bounded by the people mover is ok for commericial purposes so serve tourists.

A new National Aquarium on the Detroit waterfront like Balitmore has would be nice. But there is no way yet to pay for it. Converting the Cobo site to an upscale mall or other revenue generating operation would bring people Hart plaza and help to pay for an Aquarium at the same time. I would also like to see another skyscaper, office tower or hotel in Detroit near the Cobo location to balance the skyline.

If you know where Detroit can get $1.2 Billion for a new Cobo, and where it can get the money to pay off the current Cobo bonds, lets hear it. The existing Cobo site is already on the people mover, it has substantial parking for downtown events, and is the perfect size for a mall. Also where are you going to get the tens of millions it would cost to replace the existing Cobo parking capacity? And where would you put it? It only makes sense to make use of the existing Cobo site as a way to generate revenue to help pay for the new Cobo.

Detroit is a different beast compared to Norfolk. Detroit to the rest of the country is a dangerous, scary place. I would say easily that more than half the people that live in southeast Michigan think that Detroit is a dangerous, scary place. Im in Detroit probably twice a week doing various things, and enjoying what is a great city. I cant convince any of my family members to join me because they are afraid. My own mother wont drive down there and my brother tells me that when he does come with me hes uncomfortable. I guess what im trying to get at is that people arent going to travel to shop at a destination that they feel isnt safe. Why would scared white suburbanites travel to scary black Detroit to shop at Macy's when they have Somerset 10 minutes away?

Because of the suburban view of Detroit when people to visit the city they dont stay. When people go to a Lions or Tigers game they go to the game then leave, most people. Its because they have the mindset that Detroit is not a place to stick around for long. So the city has these great venues that draw people to the city but doesnt really keep them around. A mall, if used, would do the exact same thing. People would visit cobo then simply leave and not creating any foot traffic at all. Store front businesses would hurt because Detroit would now have a retail center. Why would someone walk a ways down Woodward to buy shoes when they could get them in a mall with many other stores? It would absolutely kill downtown retail and that is mainly because Detroit is different than most cities. You cant compare Detroit to Norfolk because its a completely different mindset. I just cant see giving Detroit, a city constantly losing people to the suburbs, an upscale mall when the suburbs have plenty of successful ones and thats where the consumers are.

Cobo has an existing garage that doesnt have to be demolished so you dont lose parking. You question where the money would come from for the plan that I like yet yours includes redoing all of Cobo to make it a mall and then putting in a hotel and tearing down the Ford Auditorium for an aquarium. Fact of the matter is that the city doesnt have any money period for this kind of thing. Im just throwing out an alternative and what I would like to see because I think a mall is a huge mistake and a bigtime misuse of that property.

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Detroit is a different beast compared to Norfolk. Detroit to the rest of the country is a dangerous, scary place. I would say easily that more than half the people that live in southeast Michigan think that Detroit is a dangerous, scary place. Im in Detroit probably twice a week doing various things, and enjoying what is a great city. I cant convince any of my family members to join me because they are afraid. My own mother wont drive down there and my brother tells me that when he does come with me hes uncomfortable. I guess what im trying to get at is that people arent going to travel to shop at a destination that they feel isnt safe. Why would scared white suburbanites travel to scary black Detroit to shop at Macy's when they have Somerset 10 minutes away?

Because of the suburban view of Detroit when people to visit the city they dont stay. When people go to a Lions or Tigers game they go to the game then leave, most people. Its because they have the mindset that Detroit is not a place to stick around for long. So the city has these great venues that draw people to the city but doesnt really keep them around. A mall, if used, would do the exact same thing. People would visit cobo then simply leave and not creating any foot traffic at all. Store front businesses would hurt because Detroit would now have a retail center. Why would someone walk a ways down Woodward to buy shoes when they could get them in a mall with many other stores? It would absolutely kill downtown retail and that is mainly because Detroit is different than most cities. You cant compare Detroit to Norfolk because its a completely different mindset. I just cant see giving Detroit, a city constantly losing people to the suburbs, an upscale mall when the suburbs have plenty of successful ones and thats where the consumers are.

Cobo has an existing garage that doesnt have to be demolished so you dont lose parking. You question where the money would come from for the plan that I like yet yours includes redoing all of Cobo to make it a mall and then putting in a hotel and tearing down the Ford Auditorium for an aquarium. Fact of the matter is that the city doesnt have any money period for this kind of thing. Im just throwing out an alternative and what I would like to see because I think a mall is a huge mistake and a bigtime misuse of that property.

Norfolk, VA has serious problems including crime. No kidding. Before Norfolk had MacArthur Center mall, people were afraid to go to downtown Norfolk, which doesn't even have professional sports teams or big stadiums like Detroit. Why would suburbanites and tourists want to go to downtown Norfolk when they can shop in Chesapeake or Virginia Beach? Why do tourists drive accross town from VA Beach and Chesaeapke where they have a nice malls to MacArthur Center and to the Nauticus museum in downtown? To explore. If 1.7 million metro area Norfolk can have an urban upscale mall, 5.4 million metro Detroit certainly can.

Few went to downtown Baltimore until it built the retail and restaurants in the Inner Harber either. Washington, DC, Tampa Miami, Chicago, all of these have upscale malls in or near downtown. These cities have safety problems too. These cities are proof that suburbanites and tourists can be lured to downtowns. These cities are no more or less safe than Detroit.

The developers of upscale malls in those cities wouldn't invest the dollars if the projects didn't return the investment. Near downtown Tampa two large malls are only about a mile apart, West Shore and International Plaza, they both do very well. Plus Tampa has many suburban malls. People in Florida only wear tee shirts and swim suits, they don't even spend as much on clothes as people in Detroit. Tampa metro area is half the size of Detroit. If Tampa can support 2 malls on tee shirts, shorts and swim suit sales with half the population, downtown Detroit will do great with one. People travel from the suburbs to Tampa's upscale mall, International Plaza.

An upscale mall would bring more people to explore downtown and increase foot traffic. Thats what MacArthur Center did for Norfolk. Thats what the Water Tower Mall does for Chicago. There are many high rises surrounding Pentagon City Mall in DC.

Many people once shopped in downtown Detroit, and they are beginning to again. Detroit just needs clever development strategies to jump start the process. Upscale urban malls, Union Station makeovers, theaters, and stadiums bring people back to the downtowns. Detroit can capture the resurgence of popularity in urban high rises and offices which are a part of the synergy. It can work, and it does work. It just takes development. It will especially work in downtown Detroit, because other cities lack the great design, parks, and streetscape that Detroit has.

Who thinks LA is safe? Who thinks Miami is safe?

Doing the possible is better than the status quo. Leaving the MC Depot empty is not the answer. An urban renaissance in Detroit is on the way, just look at the progress, thats why people should get excited about prospects for projects like MC Depot. Michiganians need to remember their progressive ideals, thats what will win an Olympic bid.

Arent we talking about Cobo being a mall site? Why are you mentioning MC Depot?

Again i cant stress enough how different Detroit is than every city you have mentioned. The cities you mentioned arent segregated like Detroit is. Crime may be a problem in some of these cities like Detroit but I doubt any of them have the kind of blight downtown that Detroit has. Most white suburbanites will not travel to a predominately black area with abandoned buildings to shop when they have their comfy "white" luxury retail within minutes of their large houses in safe neighborhoods. Take a poll if you want. I currently live in Bloomfield Hills, and I hate it, but I can tell you exactly what over 90% of these people would say and that would be Somerset over Detroit.

You cant even bring up Chicago, LA, or Miami because they all have viable functioning downtown's. Detroit's unfortunately has a ways to go.

I personally would go downtown to do all my shopping regardless of the extra hike but ive lived in the "white" suburbs too long to think the people would flock down there. Metro Detroit in many ways is a racially divided region. The burbs are white, and the city is black and many people in the suburbs want nothing to do with Detroit because of that. A need for a downtown mall will come when the city can fill up store fronts with retail that actually has success.

A few points,


1. Wealthy Grosse Pointe residents are primary visitors to Detroit's the new waterfront park. Thousands of them were on the waterfront with no place to park for summer events. It is working.

2. Miami/Dade is a high crime area, separated from the more wealthy suburbs like Fort Lauderdale to the north. LA is a high crime area, separated from weathy suburbs. Norfolk is a high crime area, separated from wealthy suburbs like Chesapeake. NYC is a high crime area, with separate wealthy neighborhoods and secure high rises. Washington, DC is a high crime area, with wealthy suburbs and and secure areas downtown. Other cities have nothing over Detroit in that regard as some metro Detroiters feel. Metro Detroiters are just a bit self conscious because they want their city to succeed more.

3. Detroit is progressing, its downtown is on the rise. It has the potential to pass up the rest of the cities much sooner than expected.