Okay, I'm temporarily back...I need somewhere to vent because this absolutely infuriates me. I know a friend, whose family has waited years to get in through proper channels - the system, and she's going "WHAT THE HELL?!!!":


RCMP vessels leave Navy base in preparation for migrant ship arrival

By Todd Coyne, Vancouver Sun August 12, 2010
VANCOUVER — A suspected Tamil migrant boat now believed to hold as many as 500 refugees has entered Canada's 200-mile exclusive economic zone and is heading for the B.C. coast.

"We expect it will land either late (Thursday) evening or early Friday morning," a senior federal official said Wednesday of the Thai-flagged ship, the MV Sun Sea.

While Canadian Navy and Coast Guard authorities would neither confirm nor deny the whereabouts of the vessel Wednesday, US Coast Guard Commander Mark McCadden said that the 188-ft cargo ship had been spotted approximately 300 miles off the coast of British Columbia early Wednesday morning.

The vessel was met by a Canadian navy ship from Canadian Forces Base Esquimalt when it reached Canada's "exclusive economic zone" at an unknown time Wednesday.

The Tamil ship is thought to be engaged in "human smuggling and human trafficking, which is obviously a very dangerous thing," the federal official said, adding that Canada has unconfirmed reports that one of the ship's passengers has died.

The government fears other migrant ships may be on the way, the federal official said.

"We are becoming a target of human smugglers and human traffickers," he said.

"We are looking to send a message to these people who are usually (part of) criminal organizations, in some cases with possible terrorist connections in the case of the Tamil Tigers...that we are not going to allow our laws to be broken."

On Tuesday, news of the Sun Sea's imminent arrival with a reported cargo of only 200 Tamils had two Maple Ridge jails preparing to receive roughly 100 asylum seekers each.

On Wednesday, however, BC Corrections spokesman Jess Gunnarson said that he had heard reports that there were now as many as 500 Tamils on-board the ship.

Gunnarson said that housing as many as 300 additional migrants would not pose a problem for the province's corrections system.

"We have a longstanding formal agreement with the federal government and if you look back to the past decade, we certainly have a lot of experience in meeting that demand when migrant ships arrive. So certainly we'll meet the demand as it's required," he said.

While the Metro Vancouver prisons prepare to house the Tamil migrants for an unknown but likely extended time, in the short-term, Victoria General Hospital is re-opening its unused seventh floor to accommodate 75 people in need of medical attention.

In addition, a former emergency ward at the hospital will be used to treat the migrants, all of whom have been on board the ship since it left the Gulf of Thailand in May.

It is expected the vessel will be escorted to either Ogden Point, normally used by cruise ships near Victoria's downtown and where a similar ship was towed last year, or to CFB Esquimalt.

In October 2009, the MV Ocean Lady arrived in Victoria bearing 76 Tamil refugees who have since been bonded and released pending immigration hearings.

Most of those migrants now live in Toronto and Vancouver, according to David Poopalapillai of the Canadian Tamil Congress.

Tamils have been fleeing Sri Lanka since the crushing defeat of the separatist Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam by the Sri Lankan government in May 2009.

tcoyne@vancouversun.com

With Files from Victoria Times Colonist and Postmedia News
© Copyright (c) The Vancouver Sun

Read more: http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/Tamil+ship+escorted+into+waters+Canadian+Navy/3386110/story.html#ixzz0wQ7HmXyC





Many, MANY, people around the world think we're absurdly soft and retarded when it comes to things like immigration. This just sets precedent for many, many more to come here. Hop on a boat, and you get a free ride into our country bypassing everyone in the queue!



And to add on:

- naval expenses
- policing costs
- health care costs
- immigration dept. costs
- accommodation (and food?) costs
- legal costs
- possibly education costs and welfare costs

That adds up to potential millions.


I expect the fire fighting boats will be also there to provide a celebratory arch and BC school children will be lining the dick to sing songs of welcome. In case of rain civil servants will be standing by with umbrellas and prepaid visa cards.

Who is the Federal Minister of 'Hold the Door open'?



I'm certainly not against immigration, that's what Canada is about, but I am against those who bypass the system. No special and arbitrary exceptions.

Happy "Come Out of Retirement"!!! :D

Send them back but provide them with enough foods, water and clothings.

I voted no. :cheers:

Send them back but provide them with enough foods, water and clothings.

:cheers:

The more, the merrier!

Welcome to Canada!

Cheers! :cheers:

And they will all stay in your house and eat your food! :D

Many, MANY, people around the world think we're absurdly soft and retarded when it comes to things like immigration. This just sets precedent for many, many more to come here. Hop on a boat, and you get a free ride into our country bypassing everyone in the queue!

The problem is that there is even a queue in the first place. If someone is qualified they should be allowed in. Even Matt Bonner cannot become a Canadian citizen (and therefore can't play for Team Canada).

And to add on:

- naval expenses
- policing costs
- health care costs
- immigration dept. costs
- accommodation (and food?) costs
- legal costs
- possibly education costs and welfare costs

That adds up to potential millions.

Immigrants pay taxes too.

Immigrants that are undocumented due to overly strict immigration rules don't pay taxes, e.g. see the US.


No special and arbitrary exceptions.

Yes there should be no arbitrary exceptions, but there should also be no arbitrary restrictions either. But even since Harper, the system has been full of them.

Canada a choice target for Tamil migrants: diplomat

CTV.ca News Staff
Date: Thu. Aug. 12 2010 7:49 PM ET

Tamil migrants are making the choice to come to Canada because it is seen as "the easiest mark in the world" for prospective refugees of any background, says Ottawa's former High Commissioner to Sri Lanka.

Martin Collacott says Canada is a generous and giving country, which tends to accept many more refugees than its Western world counterparts.

"We accept about 50 per cent of people who manage to reach our soil and make refugee claims. The average for other countries is around 15 per cent, so your chances of getting accepted in Canada are much greater," Collacott told CTV's Canada AM from Vancouver on Thursday morning.

"And even if you're turned down, the chances are we won't be able to remove you. We remove a few, but we've had people who have been turned down 20 years ago, but are still appealing."

Refugees are given state-funded lawyers, welfare and health care, which leaves the Canadian system as "the Rolls Royce of claiming refugee status," Collacott said.

For Tamil people, Canada is an especially desirable destination because of its large Tamil population and the high-rate of success for Tamil migrants over the years.

"We took 37,000 refugee claimants from Sri Lanka over one 15-year period, more than from any other country in the world," Collacott said.

"Our acceptance rates were much higher. In 2003, for example, Britain accepted 2 per cent of claims from Sri Lankan Tamils; Germany, 4 per cent; Canada, 76 per cent. So, if you can get to Canada to make your claim, it's like winning the lottery."

At present, a cargo ship is making its way towards the B.C. coast and is believed to be carrying hundreds of Tamil migrants.

Canadian authorities confirmed Wednesday that the MV Sun Sea had crossed into Canada's exclusive economic zone and was expected to hit shore within hours.

Dan McLeod, a Vancouver-based immigration lawyer, said the people on board the ship will first have contact with the Canada Border Services Agency, which will confirm the identities of the passengers.

After that, the cases will be handed over to the Immigration and Refugee Board, which will decide whether to release or detain the people in question.

In a recent interview with The Canadian Press, McLeod said that Ottawa has no option but to let the MV Sun Sea land.

"When a person arrives at a Canadian port of entry, that person is entitled to make an application for refugee status, and basically all they have to do is say something along the lines of ‘refugee' or ‘protection' or ‘fear of persecution' in their home country," McLeod said Wednesday.

"Once they are in Canadian waters, they can't be turned back. Legally, we cannot turn them away, and it would be a very bad precedent for Canada to do so."

There have been reports suggesting that the MV Sun Sea could be carrying some members of the Tamil Tigers -- a banned terrorist organization in Canada -- who could be travelling alongside legitimate refugees.

Collacott said the Tamil Tigers have made "particular use of the refugee system to get in their supporters, they have operated a lot of the people-smuggling that got people in over the last 20 years."

"And at one point, the Toronto Police task force estimated there were 8,000 trained Tamil terrorists in Toronto alone, so, it's been used both for just getting people in who wouldn't qualify normally by international standards, but also for getting terrorists into Canada. And it's expected, it's believed that there are quite a few Tamil Tigers, or their supporters, on this ship."

In June 2000, the National Post reported that Toronto police believed up to 8,000 Tamils living in the city held links to Tamil terror groups, including the Tamil Tigers.

The MV Sun Sea is the second-such ship to make its way to Canadian soil since the end of civil war in Sri Lanka in May of last year.

The first ship to arrive was the Ocean Lady which landed in Victoria last October, carrying 76 Tamil men who applied for refugee status.

With files from The Canadian Press

http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/Canada/20100812/refugee-system-tamils-canada-100812/



They were rejected by Australia for a reason. If they really are desperate in seeking asylum, why bypass numerous other countries on the way that could grant them safe haven, and travel so far away across the vast Pacific to Canada? This to me looks like seeking North American immigration using Canada's lax refugee system as an easy entry.
If not, why not go straight to the United States, which is nearer and richer? Oh no, because they're strict.

The problem is that there is even a queue in the first place. If someone is qualified they should be allowed in. Even Matt Bonner cannot become a Canadian citizen (and therefore can't play for Team Canada).


Yes there should be no arbitrary exceptions, but there should also be no arbitrary restrictions either. But even since Harper, the system has been full of them.

I haven't been that interested in Canadian politics ever since Harper took over and especially after the whole "cancellation of political party funding" affair two years ago so I'm not too aware of what has changed with the immigration policies since the Liberals left.

From what I understand before, there's a certain quota each year and each applicant is assessed for their social/economic/language qualifications and that's why a queue has always existed. I'm not sure what arbitrary measures Harper might have put in place.




Immigrants pay taxes too.

Immigrants that are undocumented due to overly strict immigration rules don't pay taxes, e.g. see the US.

I was referring to the cost of the whole shennanigans of coming by boat here illegally.

there is a lot of speculation that they are terrorists who will drum up resources and support here to fight back over there

I think this is stupid. What about all the legit immigrants who go through the paper work and due dilligence and wait months or years to get their visas approved?? Somehow hopping on a boat let's you bypass all of that? The feds need to stop being such pussies and slam the gavel down on immigration policies. I say send 'em all back.

they usually do

that last huge boat load of chinese - were all eventually sent back after their time in custody up near prince george

Is that uncommon?

Aren't quite a few of them suffering with TB? That alone makes them ineligible for settlement in Canada.

Currently our SSC pool shows almost 65% wanting the individuals on this ship to be turns away versus 35%.

I would like to point out, and put it out there, that a big part of these decisions are not wanting people that are very ‘different’ from ourselves to come into Canada. Yet, some of you guys are the first to jump into the air and celebrate how diverse, and open minded you are.

Before you run to your defenses, take a moment and think about why you feel uncomfortable with letting these people in. Is it really about immigrant laws and what it means to Canada, or rather how comfy you feel with letting 3rd world, non-English speaking individuals into your own backyard?

Don’t forget though that its these family that work 2-3 jobs in factories and behind restaurant kitchens to send their kids to school and give them a real shot at life; and these kids to grow up to be doctors, engineers, artist and teachers. Don’t forget that unlike Australia and France; Canada doesn’t have big problems with immigrants and refugee. Unlike most of the world, our refugees and immigrant that comes to Canada just add to our cultural fabric, and we synergize and make this place so much better. So I am not really sure why people are making a big deal about this.

As I pointed out earlier, our immigrant systems and law should not be linear and should be able to flex to accommodate unusual scenario as the present one we face.

I would like to point out, and put it out there, that a big part of these decisions are not wanting people that are very ‘different’ from ourselves to come into Canada.


not so much in this case. it's a legality thing.

Currently our SSC pool shows almost 65% wanting the individuals on this ship to be turns away versus 35%.

I would like to point out, and put it out there, that a big part of these decisions are not wanting people that are very ‘different’ from ourselves to come into Canada. Yet, some of you guys are the first to jump into the air and celebrate how diverse, and open minded you are.

Before you run to your defenses, take a moment and think about why you feel uncomfortable with letting these people in. Is it really about immigrant laws and what it means to Canada, or rather how comfy you feel with letting 3rd world, non-English speaking individuals into your own backyard?

Don’t forget though that its these family that work 2-3 jobs in factories and behind restaurant kitchens to send their kids to school and give them a real shot at life; and these kids to grow up to be doctors, engineers, artist and teachers. Don’t forget that unlike Australia and France; Canada doesn’t have big problems with immigrants and refugee. Unlike most of the world, our refugees and immigrant that comes to Canada just add to our cultural fabric, and we synergize and make this place so much better. So I am not really sure why people are making a big deal about this.

As I pointed out earlier, our immigrant systems and law should not be linear and should be able to flex to accommodate unusual scenario as the present one we face.

I agree that there is an undercurrent of racism at work in the national reaction to this event. We are all immigrants to this country, but how soon we forget that once our families have been comfy and settled for some generations. We have had refugees in this country before and we have dealt with them on an individual basis. To turn this boat away would be cruel, and something that Harperites would probably enjoy seeing.

If there are tamil tigers on the boat, turn those fuckers down. However, there is no reason to turn back others. All of this "Canada is a choice target for the Tamils" and stuff sounds like fear mongering.

not so much in this case. it's a legality thing.

Bull, how many people here actually know anything about immigration laws and policy of Canada? Many people like to say that it an issue with legality to hide from the real reasons why they feel uncomfortable.

I have a question for you kool_maudit, no one has ever been on that ship, yet you seem to be an expert at figuring out they are terrorist. Perhaps you should be working for FBI.

Can you not see how quickly you are making a link between Tamils and Tamil Tigers, Newsflash buddy - Tamil does not equal to Tamil tiger.

Do you not see how quickly those ‘people’ become ‘fuckers’ in your post? How without even knowing a single person on that ship, you already have a very aggressive view.

The fear of others and fear of difference seems to run deep in many Canadian, but oddly enough many don’t seem to admit it.

Canada has an immigration system - we can't just let people in willy nilly - why have laws and a system?

I have a number of friends who want to get into Canada and some are here paying thousands of dollars as they wait to stay and live here and than have to pay thousands more to see if they qualify

maybe they should have just hopped on a boat

I talked to some people at work about this today and they all agreed to send them back.

they are not immigrants they are refugees
big difference

we don't know for sure yet

that big boat that arrived from china - they all paid to get here as "refugees" and were slowly sent back to china as they were processed

Currently our SSC pool shows almost 65% wanting the individuals on this ship to be turns away versus 35%.

I would like to point out, and put it out there, that a big part of these decisions are not wanting people that are very ‘different’ from ourselves to come into Canada. Yet, some of you guys are the first to jump into the air and celebrate how diverse, and open minded you are.

Before you run to your defenses, take a moment and think about why you feel uncomfortable with letting these people in. Is it really about immigrant laws and what it means to Canada, or rather how comfy you feel with letting 3rd world, non-English speaking individuals into your own backyard?

Don’t forget though that its these family that work 2-3 jobs in factories and behind restaurant kitchens to send their kids to school and give them a real shot at life; and these kids to grow up to be doctors, engineers, artist and teachers. Don’t forget that unlike Australia and France; Canada doesn’t have big problems with immigrants and refugee. Unlike most of the world, our refugees and immigrant that comes to Canada just add to our cultural fabric, and we synergize and make this place so much better. So I am not really sure why people are making a big deal about this.

As I pointed out earlier, our immigrant systems and law should not be linear and should be able to flex to accommodate unusual scenario as the present one we face.

Your right. :applause:

Bull, how many people here actually know anything about immigration laws and policy of Canada? Many people like to say that it an issue with legality to hide from the real reasons why they feel uncomfortable.

I have a question for you kool_maudit, no one has ever been on that ship, yet you seem to be an expert at figuring out they are terrorist. Perhaps you should be working for FBI.

Can you not see how quickly you are making a link between Tamils and Tamil Tigers, Newsflash buddy - Tamil does not equal to Tamil tiger.

Do you not see how quickly those ‘people’ become ‘fuckers’ in your post? How without even knowing a single person on that ship, you already have a very aggressive view.

The fear of others and fear of difference seems to run deep in many Canadian, but oddly enough many don’t seem to admit it.

FBI. :lol:

it has nothing with them being different

but now we have to take care of them for the next 2 1/2 years while they navigate the system and see if they can become refugees - so we get to pay for their housing, medical and court fees etc.

they all paid in the tens of thousands each to get here - why couldn't they have spent that going the legite route?

^^ Precisely. It's a big slap in the face to all the patient people who have been on the waiting list for much longer. These human smugglers who take advantage of uneducated, poor individuals, need to be locked behind bars for a decade or so.

Australia and Thailand rejected this same group of individuals for pretty much the same reason as Canada should; it doesn't follow policy. Not because it's racist or Harperism. Come on now.

The 'Yes' side is still winning!

Very interesting to see this debate occurring in another country - its very similar to the situation in Australia, where we have refugee boats (90% Sri Lankan Tamils and Afghans) arriving every few days.

Of course they are all economic migrants, merrily avoiding the 25 mile trip to their brethren in Tamil Nadu, India and self-selecting nations with the best welfare and easiest refugee assessments - I cannot fathom why Western countries so easily permit this to occur?

Why is it whenever anyone opposes illegal entry into a nation someone screams racism? It seems they are the ones obsessed with race.

Seems Americans aren't alone in the problem of illegal immigration.

Smugglers and terrorists aboard Tamil ship chose Canada: Toews

It could be months before each of the 490 Tamils aboard the MV Sun Sea is identified, but the Canadian government and Sri Lankan officials have already said they include terrorists and suspected human-smugglers.

By Todd Coyne, Vancouver Sun August 13, 2010 5:42 PM


http://www.vancouversun.com/news/3397098.bin

Canada's Public Safety Minister Vic Toews announced Thursday that the 490 Tamil migrants aboard the MV Sun Sea include suspected human smugglers and terrorists.

"We are very concerned that there are elements of the LTTE and the Tamil Tigers on board this vessel," Toews said.

In a press conference at Canadian Forces Base Esquimalt where the migrant ship is presently docked, Toews said that the "suspected human smugglers and terrorists did not come to Canada by accident," but rather chose this country because of its reputation for leniency in accepting foreign migrants and refugees.

All criminals on-board, he said, "will be prosecuted to the full extent of the law."

"We want to send a very clear message not only to individuals currently involved but to those watching this situation that this is an act Canada does not encourage," Toews said.

Regrettably, Toews said, the only current legal avenue authorities have for dealing with the arrival of illegal migrant ships is to wait for such vessels to reach Canadian waters before boarding them.

That is what members of the RCMP, the Department of National Defence and the Canadian Border Services Agency did Thursday evening, he confirmed.

Asked to confirm reports that more Tamil migrant boats were already headed for Canada from Sri Lanka, Toews said: "This particular situation we believe to be a part of a larger human smuggling and human trafficking enterprise. I don't view this as an isolated, independent act."

Ben Perrin, an immigration law and human trafficking expert at the University of B.C. said Thursday that he expects the government will try to determine who the smugglers are among the migrants and prosecute them as an example to those with similar intentions in mind.

"There is a very serious immigration offence that the individuals who organized this vessel or otherwise aided and abetted it could be charged with," Perrin said. "That carries up to life imprisonment and that's certainly something I expect investigators will be looking at."

Meanwhile, a spokesman for the Canadian Border Services Agency confirmed in a later press conference in Esquimalt Thursday that some individuals on-board the Sun Sea had been taken to hospital for treatment.

Rob Johnston of the CBSA said that the overall medical situation aboard the ship, however, was not broadly dire but that illnesses and injuries appeared to be restricted to a few migrants who were receiving ambulatory care.

All migrants aboard the ship are undergoing medical examinations and a process of identification in which they will be photographed, fingerprinted and then sent to medical and detention facilities as required, Johnston said.

In a joint press conference with members of the RCMP, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade, CBSA and the Department of National Defence, Johnston would not confirm the numbers of women and youths aboard the ship citing difficulty determining the identities of many of the migrants.

tcoyne@vancouversun.com



Read more: http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Smugglers+terrorists+aboard+Tamil+ship+chose+Canada+Toews/3396996/story.html#ixzz0wYDVD4nI

they are not immigrants they are refugees
big difference

They are not refugees, they are opportunists,
A refugee is someone who is running due to political or social threats to their person. This does not apply to these people as they are just coming for the economic opportunities. In other words they have cheated and tried to get to the top of the line effectively telling the people who are waiting their turn in the line to screw off.
Why wait for 6 weeks for EI when you can steal your rent money and still get your EI cheque in 6 weeks?...........that is what we are talking about.
Don't get me wrong I feel VERY sorry for these people as they are desperate to get out iof their impoverished circumstances. They probably spent their meager life earnings to get here . They were certainly lied to being told that Canada is the land of milk and honey and they have jobs waiting for them as soon as they get to Vancouver.
The bastards here are the ones who took all their money .The reality, however, I that they must be turned back before they can dock and claim refugee status which would take years assuming they get denied.
The government should be humane. Send them back in Canadian ships with water, food, medical care and seize the boat they were in!.
Sell it, whether in Canada or Sri Lanka, and take all the proceeds and give every penny of it back to these poor people. If it ends up they get more than what they paid then all the better.

They are escaping a country that basically put nearly all the Tamils from a certain area in a concentration camp ...

Take the people off, and process them individually as refugees. Put Vic Toews and the rest of his reactionary Conservative cronies on the boat, cut the rope and set it adrift on the Pacific ocean.

I don't think this is a case of racism. It's simply wrong how 500 people can come in and be a part of Canada when you have people waiting in line. Now that may promote racism against Tamils but not the fact that the people on the ship are Tamil. Just my opinion.

Currently our SSC pool shows almost 65% wanting the individuals on this ship to be turns away versus 35%.

I voted No Non!


As long as we process them accurately, and allow the legitimate ones to stay I think it's our duty as a rich and multicultural nation to endorse those with valid refugee status to have a chance at the great lives we are all accustomed to. As long as we can weed out the bad apples and send them back I welcome the others to Canada. It says a lot about how the world sees us if people choose to risk life and limb for months on a cargo ship in what one can only deduce as less then sub par conditions to try and seek out a new life here.

Back in the 80's Canada had a massive influx of immigrants from Hong Kong trying to escape before the take over of mainland china. The difference there was those people had money where as these Tamil's are showing up with little. Both however are trying to leave a situation they have/had no control over.

And before anybody says "Well some of these Tamil's may be Tigers and join organized crime here" I'd like to remind you that the Triads were an import from Hong Kong.

Give these people a chance before you send them all packing.

I just think of all the people who have legally applied for residency here in Canada yet are waiting for months in their home countries for a response. While the Australian method of foreign detention is controversial, I do understand why they take such drastic steps, it's only fair the legal residents of the country especially when a country offers such a large social safety net. Canadian taxpayers should not have to support illegal refugees and their residency applications not to mention have them dependent on our already stretched social safety net.

Australia and Canada have traditionally had very different approaches toward immigration. I think we are best to follow our traditional model as it has worked well for us over the years. It is not foolproof, but it is humane.

Why we should welcome boatful of Tamil refugees into Canada
By Harsha Walia, Vancouver Sun

From the Komagata Maru carrying 376 Punjabi passengers and the SS St. Louis travelling with 900 Jewish asylum seekers, to the boats with 600 people from China's Fujian province and the Ocean Lady that docked in B.C. last year with Tamil refugees - there is something about boatloads of migrants that triggers a national hysteria. Perhaps it is the realization that the expanse of ocean is not enough to enforce the divide between the West and the so-called Third World.

This past week has been no different with the arrival of the MV Sun Sea and approximately 500 Tamil migrants. With little substantiation, officials and media are regurgitating the refrain of "terrorists," "illegals" and "queue jumpers." Yet refugee advocates have repeatedly reminded us that there is no queue for refugees. It is inherent to the refugee experience that one does not wait in a line, fearing serious harm or death, to make the difficult decision to flee. Nor are they so-called illegals; they are asylum seekers. Canadian and international refugee law recognizes that many asylum seekers will be forced to travel irregularly, including by boat, to seek safety.

Relying on sound-bites about organized crime and terrorism is the best way to close public debate about government actions. Instead of relying on sensationalism, let us ask: On what basis are the Tamil migrants being declared terrorists? Is it even logical that well-financed and often state-backed terrorists or traffickers would suffer in a three-month long, arduous journey risking death? Even if we believe that women and children were forced onto this boat, how do we justify jailing them as a humane response?

What we do know is that United Nations Secretary-General Ban Kimoon has appointed a panel to investigate war crimes committed by the Sri Lankan government against Tamils. Human rights organizations have documented government and military atrocities including indiscriminate killings, arbitrary detentions and imprisonment, and mass displacement of Tamils. Canada has itself accepted more than 90 per cent of refugee claimants from Sri Lanka in the past two years.

Last year we succumbed to unfounded panic when the Ocean Lady landed with 76 Tamils aboard. All the men were eventually released when the Canada Border Services Agency (CBSA) was forced to admit they had no evidence of terrorist connections. Ottawa even tried to use Section 86 of the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act, a draconian section that allows for secret evidence in closed hearings, to make their case. Still, based on a lack of evidence, in January the CBSA announced that it would not contest the release of the last group of detainees.

Rohan Gunaratna, the anti-terrorism expert who is the government's primary source, was discredited by immigration lawyers as well as adjudicator Otto Nuppanen during the Ocean Lady proceedings. As detailed in news articles, his unverified sources were questioned, as well as his credibility, given his close relationship with the Sri Lankan government. Following a recent investigation by the newspaper the Sunday Age in Australia, Gunaratna has retracted some of his alleged credentials.

So Canadian officials are either continuing to make uninformed statements despite the lack of evidence, or they are deliberately relying on the racist stereotyping of all Tamils as likely being associated with terrorism in order to fuel public fears. Their irresponsibility is facilitating a climate where anti-immigration advocates are gaining more traction in their demands for the boat to be sent back and for Canada to stop welcoming refugees.

Frankly, I think there is more reason to be mistrustful of Prime Minister Stephen Harper, Citizenship and Immigration Minister Jason Kenney and Public Safety Minister Vic Toews than of the migrants. Their regime has advanced an agenda of corporate bailouts and economic austerity; ballooning military, police and prison budgets; unmitigated resource extraction and environmental destruction; and an immigration policy that is moving toward the repressive Australia and Arizona models of accepting fewer refugees and jailing more asylum seekers and undocumented migrants. These politicians sell us strange paradoxes - military occupation as liberation, refugees as terrorists.

Instead, author McKenzie Wark reminds us, "Those who seek refuge, who are rarely accorded a voice, are nevertheless the bodies that confront the injustice of the world.

They give up their particular claim to sovereignty and cast themselves on the waters.

Only when the world is its own refuge will their limitless demand be met."

Harsha Walia has a law degree and is a local activist with, among other social justice groups, No One Is Illegal.

Read more: http://www.vancouversun.com/news/should+welcome+boatful+Tamil+refugees+into+Canada/3398770/story.html#ixzz0whjVGyDE

We live in a time where nationalism often trumps humanism. In the name of a nation and the title it provides, our entitlement allows us to forget that not every human being has that same privilege. One cannot simply 'go back home' when there is no home to return to. For those who feel it is not fair for the people waiting in line – just remember, that these people are not looking at Canada as an economic breadbasket; rather they are escaping from the tyranny of the Sri Lankan government in Northern parts of the country.

Just thank god that you live in a place where you don’t have to risk your life by taking a dangerous 3 month journey to another world., and perhaps you will never understand a world where you may have to take that risk. We are indeed very fortunate, but not everyone is.

I don't think this is a case of racism. It's simply wrong how 500 people can come in and be a part of Canada when you have people waiting in line. Now that may promote racism against Tamils but not the fact that the people on the ship are Tamil. Just my opinion.

I disagree. Listen, months ago we let in refugees from Haiti into Canada not in boat loads, but quite literally in plane loads. I think 18 planes and more landed in Montreal, and we welcomed them to our country with a warm hand and blankets. The same response did not happen with Tamils, as soon you heard the word Tamil – everyone seems to think terrorism. So yes, there is a racial undertone to this whole issue.

^^So following your train of thought, Canada should just abandon its immigration policy and borders and open the place to anyone who wants a better life? Think of all the money taxpayers would save by not funding a coast guard, navy, or custom officials.

Look, It’s a terrible tragedy that a small percent of the world’s population has the bulk of it wealth, but just letting anyone into Canada because they want a better life is not the answer. Before you know it, thousands would be arriving every day.

It wasn’t where I was going with this.

It would be nice if people don’t jump onto topics that may affect others’ life profoundly but theirs at a minute level.

Unlike most western nation in the world, Canada is one of the few nations our immigrants has been playing a synergizing role in our society. Where our policies have been working, so why not let the immigrant officers and people who are more educated on this matter do their work then prance around the web screaming they should go home.

No one is saying we should let them all in unconditionally, and open our borders; but why not let them go through Canada’s existing immigration law and the system; and yes, there is a way you can jump to the front of the line if you coming to Canada to escape death back home vs. seeking better employment opportunity. I am not saying the will get thru the system, but let them try; and yes, while they are on Canadian soil, they are our guest, and it is our responsibility to feed them, shelter them until we figure out what to do. If you think that is not fair, well go cry yourself a river.

Some people here are so bloody spoiled. Some of you guys think your have some sort of rights to a good life. You being in Canada, you being presented with opportunities to work hard and grow isn’t your fucking right, it is your privilege. You did absolutely nothing to deserve it; it was just a stroke of luck that you were born on the side of the planet that exploits the other 90% of the world.

They should stay.

Some people here are so bloody spoiled. Some of you guys think your have some sort of rights to a good life. You being in Canada, you being presented with opportunities to work hard and grow isn’t your fucking right, it is your privilege. You did absolutely nothing to deserve it; it was just a stroke of luck that you were born on the side of the planet that exploits the other 90% of the world.

:applause:^^:applause:

+3

Sometimes mom and dad made our lives so incredibly easy we get heartless toward those who have not been handed everything on a silver platter. Having the Conservatives in power
whipping up a frenzy about terrorists and scams is making Canadians a less welcoming, open land.

Currently our SSC pool shows almost 65% wanting the individuals on this ship to be turns away versus 35%.

I would like to point out, and put it out there, that a big part of these decisions are not wanting people that are very ‘different’ from ourselves to come into Canada. Yet, some of you guys are the first to jump into the air and celebrate how diverse, and open minded you are.

Before you run to your defenses, take a moment and think about why you feel uncomfortable with letting these people in. Is it really about immigrant laws and what it means to Canada, or rather how comfy you feel with letting 3rd world, non-English speaking individuals into your own backyard?

Don’t forget though that its these family that work 2-3 jobs in factories and behind restaurant kitchens to send their kids to school and give them a real shot at life; and these kids to grow up to be doctors, engineers, artist and teachers. Don’t forget that unlike Australia and France; Canada doesn’t have big problems with immigrants and refugee. Unlike most of the world, our refugees and immigrant that comes to Canada just add to our cultural fabric, and we synergize and make this place so much better. So I am not really sure why people are making a big deal about this.

As I pointed out earlier, our immigrant systems and law should not be linear and should be able to flex to accommodate unusual scenario as the present one we face.

Want a good answer? I don't mind the good working ones that are looknig for stuff in Canada but ones that want Welfare or are Terroists can get thrown the hell off that boat into the see.

What I just said by the way... I was dead serious what was just said, those type of people don't deserve to live I'd rather they drown then take advantage of what peopel work hard for. Infact why not take every people that came here just for welfare and throw them on an island. Call it Welfarmonia and let's see how they survive without the pleasure of what we gave them. If they survive and agree to work for that money then they can stay in Canada otherwise leave them there, I don't feel like people who can take advantage of hardworking money can just stand up and let them stroll right in this country.

This country may be diverse but that's also a flaw. We're TOO diverse and TOO soft. Time to step up and turn that damn ship around then make sure no one ever enters without sending a contract to obid all the laws and work instead of welfare.

It wasn’t where I was going with this.

It would be nice if people don’t jump onto topics that may affect others’ life profoundly but theirs at a minute level.

Everything has a flaw or a pro. Like the Yin Yang with everything dark there's light and vice versa. Why shoudn't we jump to terrorism it's things like that destroys countries and allows what has happened to Sri Lanka. Jumping straight to the dangers of something is ALWAYS the best option, it's like a fight you aim for the weak spots not for the easiest spots. Who's to say that all those people aren't under power of the Tamil Tigers.

You have a flaw it's that you're too damn soft and always jump for the pros and not straight for the cons. The peopel that say yes are less pitiful and are more gradual at the consquences rather then the benefits. That ship is saying consquences all over it... just like a predator's instinct. It's not worth taking the ship so my answer is yes.

Bull, how many people here actually know anything about immigration laws and policy of Canada? Many people like to say that it an issue with legality to hide from the real reasons why they feel uncomfortable.

I have a question for you kool_maudit, no one has ever been on that ship, yet you seem to be an expert at figuring out they are terrorist. Perhaps you should be working for FBI.

Can you not see how quickly you are making a link between Tamils and Tamil Tigers, Newsflash buddy - Tamil does not equal to Tamil tiger.

Do you not see how quickly those ‘people’ become ‘fuckers’ in your post? How without even knowing a single person on that ship, you already have a very aggressive view.

The fear of others and fear of difference seems to run deep in many Canadian, but oddly enough many don’t seem to admit it.


what he said

if were going to turn them away least give them some health care a proper ship and the means to aply legaly

My parents were refugees from the Vietnam after the War. Also arrived by boat. And they successfully "skipped the queue" just as I hope these Tamil boat people will as well. My Parents were actually sponsored by one your churches even though thay are Bhuddist.

I wouldn't be surprised if you Canadians descended from people who came by boat as well. Unless you are Native of course, which you probably are not.

All you Canadians act like you deserve to be in this country as if you are Natives are something. The fact is you stole the land from real Natives and sent tens of thousands of their children to their deaths in the Residential schools to strengthen your claim on the land. And now you act a legitimate country and a legitimate people. It's pathetic.

^^ Oh, here we go again.

+3

Sometimes mom and dad made our lives so incredibly easy we get heartless toward those who have not been handed everything on a silver platter. Having the Conservatives in power
whipping up a frenzy about terrorists and scams is making Canadians a less welcoming, open land.

But Canadians have responded this way in the past, before the Conservatives were in power. You shouldn't be so quick to blame the ruling party, as it has little to do with the opinion of many Canadians today.

My parents were refugees from the Vietnam after the War. Also arrived by boat. And they successfully "skipped the queue" just as I hope these Tamil boat people will as well. My Parents were actually sponsored by one your churches even though thay are Bhuddist.

I wouldn't be surprised if you Canadians descended from people who came by boat as well. Unless you are Native of course, which you probably are not.

All you Canadians act like you deserve to be in this country as if you are Natives are something. The fact is you stole the land from real Natives and sent tens of thousands of their children to their deaths in the Residential schools to strengthen your claim on the land. And now you act a legitimate country and a legitimate people. It's pathetic.

:yes: :cheers:

My parents were refugees from the Vietnam after the War. Also arrived by boat. And they successfully "skipped the queue" just as I hope these Tamil boat people will as well. My Parents were actually sponsored by one your churches even though thay are Bhuddist.

I wouldn't be surprised if you Canadians descended from people who came by boat as well. Unless you are Native of course, which you probably are not.

All you Canadians act like you deserve to be in this country as if you are Natives are something. The fact is you stole the land from real Natives and sent tens of thousands of their children to their deaths in the Residential schools to strengthen your claim on the land. And now you act a legitimate country and a legitimate people. It's pathetic.

Wow, you're dumb you realized that those natives are also ancient asisns right?

Look, this thread is NOT ABOUT TWO HUNDRED YEARS AGO. The world was a VERY DIFFERENT PLACE THEN. Horrible things happened everywhere, and not just Canada. This thread is about what is happening now with this approaching ship.

But Canadians have responded this way in the past, before the Conservatives were in power. You shouldn't be so quick to blame the ruling party, as it has little to do with the opinion of many Canadians today.

I couldn't disagree more. People take their cues from the top, and the message from the top toward these people is a cruel and hard line. I don't think it is possible to ignore the influence the governing party can have on the population and just pretend that the Con's reactionary "It's a Ship of Terrorists!! Run for your Lives" attitude is not affecting the tolerance of the nation.

I couldn't disagree more. People take their cues from the top, and the message from the top toward these people is a cruel and hard line. I don't think it is possible to ignore the influence the governing party can have on the population and just pretend that the Con's reactionary "It's a Ship of Terrorists!! Run for your Lives" attitude is not affecting the tolerance of the nation.

How can you strictly call out the Conservatives but not blame the Liberals for the same thing?

In 1999 when 600 Chinese Refugees came over by boat, the reaction from the Canadian public was no different than it is now. Everyone was crying for them to be sent home. The Liberals were in power back then, and there was no "This ship is full of terrorists" rhetoric being blasted out by the Liberals back then, yet the Canadian public was still very much against allowing these refugees to stay on Canadian soil.

Its not a partisan thing. Its a Canadian thing. Canadians like to pretend that we are all nice and accommodating, but that hasn't been the case when we have been tested... as we are being now. To blame the government is just dodging the problem. Its not our government, its the people of our country.

On the bright side, the UN has commended Canada for its handling of this case. Should we not give credit to Harper for his handling of the situation just because he is a Conservative?

http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=35640&Cr=Sri+Lanka&Cr1=

Some people here are right and some have made mistakes.

Here's something for you guys Canada is like a cheap $1 book.

Nice and good when you look at it but once you get into knowing it's just a load of bullcrap.

what is with you and pointing out people's flaws? I am not 'soft' :bash: :lol:

The issue is if we let these people stay, the word will be out, “Canada is open for business”. Then very soon you will have boats arriving daily.

Just look at Australia’s recent history. Boats were arriving in ever larger numbers, John Howard introduced his “Pacific Solution” boats stop almost immediately. The new Labor government, removed this solution, sure enough, the boats are back.

Most average people want to do what they can to help those unfortunate enough to be born in a poor country. But just letting in anyone who can raise $50,000 to pay the people smugglers is not the way. You are only enabling the people smuggling market. If we really want to do something for the good of the less fortunate, then let’s send over our own boats and bring back the most destitute and needy. Relying on criminals, whose only motivation is money, is not great policy.

The issue is if we let these people stay, the word will be out, “Canada is open for business”. Then very soon you will have boats arriving daily.

Just look at Australia’s recent history. Boats were arriving in ever larger numbers, John Howard introduced his “Pacific Solution” boats stop almost immediately. The new Labor government, removed this solution, sure enough, the boats are back.

Most average people want to do what they can to help those unfortunate enough to be born in a poor country. But just letting in anyone who can raise $50,000 to pay the people smugglers is not the way. You are only enabling the people smuggling market. If we really want to do something for the good of the less fortunate, then let’s send over our own boats and bring back the most destitute and needy. Relying on criminals, whose only motivation is money, is not great policy.

No one is saying we should let these people stay. I think consensus is that they should now be put through the legal system to see who has legitimate reasons to stay and who should be sent back.

No one is saying we should let these people stay. I think consensus is that they should now be put through the legal system to see who has legitimate reasons to stay and who should be sent back.

Yes, but with the current Canadian approach, these people will be released into the mainstream populace, most likely never to be seen again.

My point is, I don't think we should necessarily follow the Australian hard line approach. Australia has a very different history of immigration policies than Canada, and if that has worked for them fine but I don't think we necessarily need to have the same approach.

But what is your suggestion, let anyone who turns up on Canada's door step, to be provided with social services and then allowed to roam free, until their case can be heard? Yes this is a kind and generous proposal, but what happens when you have thousands turning up every week, would you still be comfortable with this openness?

And how is Australia immigration policy any different. Both countries have very similar immigrant rates and populations. Yes Australia once had an official race based policy, But during that same period, where did the majority of Canada's immigrant come from? Pretty much the same place as Australia's.

The boat people have hardly anything to do with Australia's real immigration policy. Which, allows a large number of immigrants, similar to Canada. The boat people are only a few (say 50) people a year who try and sail to Australia as refugees.

It's going to be really hard to pinpoint and segregate who the smugglers, the terrorists, and who the opportunists are from the real refugees. It's not like they have all the necessary authentic documents with them to prove who they really are, and background checks would be really difficult without sufficient data.

trust me, at the end everyone on that boat will stay in Canada.

I bet that the majority of them are heading to the GTA.

Exactly.
I use to work for the gov in Social Services and we had to deal with the refugees all the time.
The feds don't give a shit because except for their medical expenses all living/welfare costs are born by the province.
The oldest trick in the book was for people to arrive by air claiming refugee status with no documentation because they quite literally flush them down the toilet mid air.
The refugee process took years and even when eventually told to leave they never did. They have some bleeding heart lawyer, usually from the same country they came from, appealing EVERYTHING. Their best trick was to convientely not show up for the hearing so the process would have to start all over again.
Our immigration/refugee system is nothing more than a lawyer make-work project.
They should be given one hearing and that's it and should not be allowed to leave the immigration central area until their hearing is heard.
Another one they use to pull was , as the refugees told me, was not to leave for Canada until a pregnancy was in it's third term. By the time they got to their hearing months later they would have a child born on Canadian soil so the kid would be Canadian and therefore the parents were automatically allowed to stay.
I once had a guy claiming refugee status.................from Sacramento! I asked him why he was really here and he said he had a lot of medical problems and needed then taken care of. He was denied status but it took 2 and half years to get him out of the country. He was consistently denied but he appealed everything. He said his refugee lawyer didn't show up twice for the hearings so it kept being pushed back.
I worked recently with a woman who managed to get her refugee status approved coming from Guatemala. I asked her what the issue was and she told me it had nothing to do security but just that she didn't get along with her parents.
Unless all refugees , not just the ones on this boat, are kept at a immigration holding centre they should not be able to leave until their ONE hearing is heard.
That will never happen with our immigrant "advocates/lawyers" so I am willing to bet all of these people will be able to stay.

It also important to remember that nearly all terrorists have a 100% chance of being able to stay. Why?
Because nearly all terrorists come from predominatly Islamic countries and all Islamic countries, with many others, have the death penalty. The Supreme Court ruled that Canada cannot extrodite anyone where they maybe sentenced to death regardless of their crime. The gov't must get assurances from the other gov't that the death sentence will not be used and that is usually impossible.
If Osama himself arrived on our doorstep we would have to offer him asylum.
In Canada, being a terrorist from any country that does not have the death penalty is a one way ticket to citizenship.

If Osama himself arrived on our doorstep we would have to offer him asylum.
.
Sad but true!

Canada should be proud of its record for accepting refugees, not ashamed of itself. Let's not brand these people terrorists until they are individually processed. I, for one, have zero faith in the fear-mongering bleatings of the Conservative government. No doubt they will have us believe that the rusted out tub also contains Weapons of Mass Destruction.

As I said on the other thread, we should send the men home but let the cougars stay! :D

It also important to remember that nearly all terrorists have a 100% chance of being able to stay. Why?
Because nearly all terrorists come from predominatly Islamic countries and all Islamic countries, with many others, have the death penalty. The Supreme Court ruled that Canada cannot extrodite anyone where they maybe sentenced to death regardless of their crime. The gov't must get assurances from the other gov't that the death sentence will not be used and that is usually impossible.
If Osama himself arrived on our doorstep we would have to offer him asylum.
In Canada, being a terrorist from any country that does not have the death penalty is a one way ticket to citizenship.

Actually, the government could get around all that simply by invoking the notwithstanding clause.

Anyway, I say send them on their way... it's obvious that Canada is being targetted because Canadians are the world's biggest suckers. Australia is a better model for us to follow.

As I said on the other thread, we should send the men home but let the cougars stay! :D

That is the best policy I have ever heard on illegal immigration. :lol:

http://www.eltiempo.com/vidadehoy/2008-08-17/IMAGEN/IMAGEN-4455283-1.jpg
Allowed In

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:JBDN9rM1-tahBM:http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y17/luckydragonz24/ugly-girl.jpg&t=1
Get the Hell Out

http://www.mojvideo.com/video-borat-alig-go-back-to-slovenia/7452c00244351e4d91f6

Canada should be proud of its record for accepting refugees, not ashamed of itself. Let's not brand these people terrorists until they are individually processed. I, for one, have zero faith in the fear-mongering bleatings of the Conservative government. No doubt they will have us believe that the rusted out tub also contains Weapons of Mass Destruction.

when they are indeed refugees than yes but these people paid anywhere from $10,000 to $50,000 to get here I have my doubts

if they have that kind of money they could have immigrated here through the proper channels

they are making a joke of Canada's refugee history in my eyes and we just bend over and say go ahead and do it

as the days progress its being found out many of them have family already here - why didn't the family do what most immigrants do and sponsor them?

they can even sponsor them as refugees - individuals or groups can sponsor people as refugees

Vancouver has had a problem for years - honduran drug dealers who come here as "refugees" and than continue being drug dealers here dodging the system - yet we just let them in - most cannot even be found and just make a mockery of the systems here cause they know how to work it

if you are truly a refugee don't you think you want to show up and start the process to a legite life in Canada?

it seems here at SSC is the complete opposite of SSP over there they all seem to say let em stay let em in send more over

If these Tamils were legitimate refugees (in fear of their lives at home) they would have travelled to the closest country whose policy is to protect legitimate refugees. Instead, what they did was to shop for the country which has the most liberal rules, and bypass all the other countries.

or maybe because Canada is home to the largest Sri Lankan Tamil community outside of Sri Lanka?

it seems here at SSC is the complete opposite of SSP over there they all seem to say let em stay let em in send more over

they are all crazy people over there! :nuts:

or maybe because Canada is home to the largest Sri Lankan Tamil community outside of Sri Lanka?

But how did that happen? It's because Canada is so lax with the rules... .... "Our acceptance rates were much higher. In 2003, for example, Britain accepted 2 per cent of claims from Sri Lankan Tamils; Germany, 4 per cent; Canada, 76 per cent."

If you're a Tamil, and want to jump the immigration queue... after you shop and compare countries, Canada is the easiest and best target. I mean why waste your time with Australia, the US, Britain or Germany? Those meanies will only let you in if you're for real. Canada on the other hand...

http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/Canada/20100812/refugee-system-tamils-canada-100812/

Lifeboat scenario, it isn't your right to have been in the boat, but you are in the boat, and the boat is full, if anyone else tries to get into the boat the boat will sink.
So what are you going to do? Allow everyone into your boat because they are desperate? Or are you going to push a few people away to keep the boat and the people inside afloat?

Some people here are so bloody spoiled. Some of you guys think your have some sort of rights to a good life. You being in Canada, you being presented with opportunities to work hard and grow isn’t your fucking right, it is your privilege. You did absolutely nothing to deserve it; it was just a stroke of luck that you were born on the side of the planet that exploits the other 90% of the world.

In this world, you are born into the world your parents were born in, and their parents were born in, and so on. This has been the pattern of human history. Say there are two villages, in village x two parents (both from that village) have a child, while in village b another baby is born, are you arguing that the baby in village b has the same rights to village x as the baby born in village x? :crazy: The Wilson family is wealthier than mine, so does that give me just as much right to their wealth as their children?
It is the right of Canadians who were born in Canada to say “no” to anyone they damn please. I’m not even Canadian, but I if I ever moved to Canada I wouldn’t make the bullshit argument that I have just as much right to Canada as Canadians do. That's National sovereignty.

I must ask everyone to refrain from personal insults, and to stick to the discussion at hand. Again, the approach in Canada toward immigration is not identical to that of the USA, so we should respect that different nations handle situations differently, and have a different approach to people seeking asylum.

From recent history, it looks like all the legitimate asylum seekers from Sri Lanka go to Canada... and all the immigration queue jumpers or Tamil Tiger terrorists from there head for the other developed countries. Gee whiz, isn't that strange?

Lets get on a boat, and go to Canada ! :D Screw the immigration!

Lets get on a boat, and go to Canada ! :D Screw the immigration!

You can have an all-expenses-paid 20-year vacation as you appeal for refugee status year after year... This problem is why so many other people of other countries require a visa to visit Canada.

I must ask everyone to refrain from personal insults, and to stick to the discussion at hand. Again, the approach in Canada toward immigration is not identical to that of the USA, so we should respect that different nations handle situations differently, and have a different approach to people seeking asylum.

Where are the personal insults? Everyone has the right to voice an opinion, or only opinions that you agree with?:ohno:

Where are the personal insults? Everyone has the right to voice an opinion, or only opinions that you agree with?:ohno:

I was referring to the generally snarly tone of the thread.

I’m not even Canadian, but I if I ever moved to Canada I wouldn’t make the bullshit argument that I have just as much right to Canada as Canadians do. .

We can disagree with each other, but other people's ideas on immigration are
not "bullshit".


wtf is up with all the crankiness today on these forums? Did someone pee in everyone's Cornflakes?

We can disagree with each other, but other people's ideas on immigration are
not "bullshit".




No, but arguing that Canadians (or North Americans) have a good standard of living because it was obtained by exploiting the "other 90 % of the world" and have done nothing to earn it, most certainly is. I think that point could have been mentioned as well.

It's amazing to see how China is now the world's 2nd biggest economy (just surpassed Japan), when only 30 years ago, it was an economic pip squeak. It shows just what can be accomplished when a 3rd world country decides to clean up its act and get its shit together. I would never suggest that China got to where it is now by exploiting the "rest of the world".... If I did denigrate China's achievement in this way, many would see such an attitude as little more than envy... and they would be right. However, it was far easier for China to become an economic superpower, than it was for North America to achieve that status. NA had to develop from nothing, whereas, China already had huge manpower in situ.

Do we have a country that is falling apart from refugees and immigrants? NO. Do we have bombs blowing up in Toronto and Montreal? No!

Last time I checked, Canada is one of the only countries that doesn’t have that big of an issue with its immigrant and refugees, one of the only countries where we did not have bombs blowing up in our backyards. So something about our system is working right?

Look, no one that is arguing for them to stay every said they should all be allowed to stay. We all said that we should allow them to seek refugee status given they have grounds.

um did you forget air india?

it still goes on in surrey they made the bomber into a martyr and they raise funds to support the fight to this day

so they might not be bombing here - why would they? they have no issue here with canada or Canadians - they have issues in their home countries where there are bombings and things going on thanks to the money that is being sent their from relatives or supporters living in Canada.

And I have a problem when so called refugees can afford the $10,000 or $50,000 to come here - they have to have had money to do it and if they have that kind of money I don't see why they can't immigrate the proper way.

smugglers don't have a pay as you go plan they are criminal smugglers its not like they care about the people as long as they fork over the cash

Do we have a country that is falling apart from refugees and immigrants? NO. Do we have bombs blowing up in Toronto and Montreal? No!

Last time I checked, Canada is one of the only countries that doesn’t have that big of an issue with its immigrant and refugees, one of the only countries where we did not have bombs blowing up in our backyards. So something about our system is working right?

We have a very strained medical care system. The first thing the newest Tamil refugees did when they got here, was to strain it even further. Pardon me if I don't like standing in line for a doctor behind some fraudulent refugee claimant. We also have a huge deficit, and more welfare payments will only make things worse.

You don't seem to be up on current events when it comes to terrorist plots against Canada, so I'll let you read this:

http://www.cp24.com/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20100412/100412_toronto_18_trial/20100412/?hub=CP24Home

The fact that we didn't have bombs blowing up in our backyards is more a matter of good luck rather than good planning.

Look, no one that is arguing for them to stay every said they should all be allowed to stay. We all said that we should allow them to seek refugee status given they have grounds.

Fine, but the entire issue must be expedited, with no appeal to the courts. Currently, they have that right, but IMO, the rules should be changed to make it a lot easier to get rid of a refugee claimant unless it is clear that they are for real. I hope that you would agree that 20 years of appealing a refugee board decision is "bullshit".

there was a story in the local vancouver news paper that the court system is currently strained now thanks to the 500 arrivals and the province has had to contract out for a number of lawyers which we in BC now get to pay for and Lawyers can't be cheap - you're out of luck in BC if you need lawyer aid or whatever they call it cause they are all tied up with the refugees

No, but arguing that Canadians (or North Americans) have a good standard of living because it was obtained by exploiting the "other 90 % of the world" and have done nothing to earn it, most certainly is. I think that point could have been mentioned as well.



Are you serious man? The west has its power it currently holds because of the advantages they got due to the industrial revolution and colonialism, and it was purely luck it happened in Britain and not China or India.

Nearly every single conflict in Africa, Asia, even the civil war in Sri Lanka can be traced back to the west and colonialism. It took the world 2-3 centuries to recover.

So you may think you are really intelligent and a hard worker, and perhaps you are, but don’t forget that certain opportunities were presented not because you deserved it and it is your right, but rather because you were just fortunate. Don’t for one second think the west is where it is at because it worked ‘harder’ and was ‘more intelligent.’

No one is saying split the wealth, or share it but at least be aware of your surrounding. Nor am I talking a stab at Canadians for being lazy, I love Canada but at the same time we are a very priviledge nation.

You sound like a rich kid who works for his father’s company and claims to have worked your ass off to get there.

*

If you have a minute, I encourage you to watch this talk: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpKbO6O3O3M. I remember watching it a while back, but Professor Hans Rosling talks a little bit about industrial revolution and how it impacted the world at large.

Ashok when something happens they're no one thing or person at fault because everyone has some of that fault on there shoulders. You can't blame western society or colonialism for any of this because they ALLOWED this to happen.

"The being that allowed it is the one that shall take blame."

If they didn't allow it that it woudln't have happened. Pure and simple.

Are you serious man? The west has its power it currently holds because of the advantages they got due to the industrial revolution and colonialism, and it was purely luck it happened in Britain and not China or India.

Nearly every single conflict in Africa, Asia, even the civil war in Sri Lanka can be traced back to the west and colonialism. It took the world 2-3 centuries to recover.

So you may think you are really intelligent and a hard worker, and perhaps you are, but don’t forget that certain opportunities were presented not because you deserved it and it is your right, but rather because you were just fortunate. Don’t for one second think the west is where it is at because it worked ‘harder’ and was ‘more intelligent.’

No one is saying split the wealth, or share it but at least be aware of your surrounding. Nor am I talking a stab at Canadians for being lazy, I love Canada but at the same time we are a very priviledge nation.

Guys like Isaac Newton, and Albert Einstein (and thousands of other westerners just like them) where hardly of average intelligence. The west was smart and hard working enough to convert their genius into wealth.

You sound like a rich kid who works for his father’s company and claims to have worked your ass off to get there.

You couldn't have said that to a person less deserving of it... I have had to work for every dime that I have... My father was a mean drunk who made life miserable for his family... yet I survived due to my own determination to do so... so like the rest of your comments thoughout this thread, you barely have a clue about what you are taking about!!!! Everything is an assumption based on your prejudices.

I will agree that I was lucky to have been born in Canada... and the fact that Canada was reasonably well off when I was born had nothing to do with my efforts (obviously).... but once I started to work, I sure as hell contributed to that wealth very considerably.... and that had nothing to do with luck. In other words, being born in Canada was about the only break that I had in life... the rest has been all hard work.

BTW, I saw that video a long time ago... and it doesn't support a single point that you have made.

I was referring to the generally snarly tone of the thread.



We can disagree with each other, but other people's ideas on immigration are
not "bullshit".


wtf is up with all the crankiness today on these forums? Did someone pee in everyone's Cornflakes?

I was not attacking the poster, just their argument.

Western peoples are not genetically superior to non-Western people, but our society had evolved farther than that of the regions we exploited. It wasn't purely luck.

I just wish a boatload of tamales would show up:

http://voices.mysanantonio.com/matt/tamales.jpg