In a country of freespeech, it seems that this ideology is the only ideology that you are not free to speak about! Discuss!

http://www.hermes-press.com/hitler_youth2.jpg

http://www.adeq.net/hj-girl.jpg

http://www.calvin.edu/academic/cas/gpa/images/hoff1/hitler11.jpg

http://www.holocaustsurvivors.org/photos/hitler_youth+large.jpg

http://histclo.hispeed.com/youth/youth/image/imgnat/hypaintings.jpg

http://www.eteachers.com.au/ICT_samples/Images/youth.jpg

http://www.germaniainternational.com/images/youthalbum01.jpg

http://www.passmores.essex.sch.uk/hist-germany/hitler_youth.jpg

http://www.reichslieder.com/0431_build_youth_hostels_homes.jpg

This should make you think twice next time you raise your hand in class. ;)
http://www.westseneca.wnyric.org/West_Seneca_Web_Pages/west%20middle/teacher/Richard%20Paige/Composer%20folder/EDC%20606%20Final%20Project_1/Website%20pcitures/nazi_children.jpg

http://www.johndclare.net/images/nazi_girl_flag.jpg

http://www.volkermord.com/Files/picturesonpages/german-Nazi%20Poster%20-.jpg

http://www.diggerhistory.info/images/posters2/poster-nazi-e.jpg

And last, but not least . . .

http://www.whitechildren.com/
"WhiteChildren.com shows the future of the Aryan People. Here you will see many young children who are being raised to be racially conscious and aware. We teach our children the difference between right and wrong, good and bad, truth and lies. Tolerance for evil and that which is wrong by nature or law will not be tolerated by us. That which is bad for our people will not be accepted into our lives. We must continue to pass on the stories of our ancestors and stay true to our Heritage for if we don't our ancestors have died in vain."

The best book I read in school was Orwell's 1984.

I thought Hitler and racial supremacy was fascism. And that socialism was more like communism?

I always wonder when I see those old group photos from around the time of the war, what happened to all of the people in them.

I wonder how many survived?

A lotta nazi's survived and migrated you know.
livin the high life in Argentina.

I thought Hitler and racial supremacy was fascism. And that socialism was more like communism?

Hee hee, let's have this argument again. I'll start.

Hitler was left wing !!!!!1!

Hitler was left and right. Before he joined the National Socialist Party he appeared in many political demonstrations on both side of the extreme wings. It appears that he was 'searching' for a party which is most favoured.

He joined Nazi not coz he liked the policies, but because he had the chance to speak out and draw public support.

Hee hee, let's have this argument again. I'll start.

Hitler was left wing !!!!!1!

A man after my own heart. :)

This should make you think twice next time you raise your hand in class. ;)

Finally I have the ultimate excuse for my bad marks. thanks a lot ;)

@left-right-question: National socialism means being a fascist (right) who wants social and economic equality (left). Most of Hitler´s domestic political actions aimed at unemployment and poverty in germany.
But it´s NOT like socialism....it was some kind of "social capitalism". We still have a social market economy in germany in contrast with a free market economy in the states

Welfe -

You're about to release the hounds. I'm trying (I really am) to restrain them. :wink2:

A man after my own heart. :)
You have a faulty shift key too???/? I'm not the only one! :happy:

Hmmm, here's my own take on this Hitler: Left or Right? thingy . . .

Hitler was "leftist" ONLY if you were German, Nordic or however you want to put it. It was socialism ONLY for a specific group (his "volk"). If you were not in this group, this socialism wasn't applied to you (quite the opposite was applied to you, in fact!).

The fact is that the German people had been beaten down from all sides by the 1920s.
1. A Keizer that sent millions to their deaths over an assination of an Austrian prince in Sarajevo in 1914 (this being a good excuse to invade the Balcans as tensions had been rising for some time).
2. A treaty that disembowed Germany (1918) and drove the economy to ruin through compinsation payments to France and Britain.
Annexed/ or occupied lands in the Sudeten (Czeckeslovakia), western Germany, Poland and the Baltic states. Tight restrictions on the military which rendered Germany at the mercey of whoever would take advantage of its weakness. (How different this was after WW2 when lessens had been learned)
3. The Weimar republic (after the Keizer was deposed) that precided over the economic and social decline of Germany to one of the most poverty stricken nations in Europe. A country where an elite held the wealth and power (of which many were Jewish). During the 1st World war and through the 1920s, the Jewish population in Germany had a disproportionately large representation in finance, politics, law and culture. Many ''ethnic'' Germans resented this and many blamed the Jewish polititians for getting Germany bogged down under the treaty of Versalais.

A poor and despirate people looking for a way out.

In the 1920s and early 30s the political situation was highly fragmented. The elitist parties feared growing support for the communists on the one side and the Nazis on the other. In a comprimise to head off the increasing threat from the far left, the Weimar republic enstated Alolf Hitler as chancellor (even though the Nazis only picked up 25% of the vote). This was supposed to be a puppet possition and the elitist polititians believed they could keep Hitler limited to only figurehead status while they secured their own political interests.
Unfortunately for the establishment, Hitler did assert his power and abolished the Weimar republic (assasinating a number of the governments top) and created the single party state. All opponents (true or suspected) where taken to ''re-education'' camps.
Hitler embarked upon an ''econimic miracle'' of full employment and universal wealth. This was achieved through (an economically unsustainable) program of huge scale military production, infrastructure and agriculture. A hard, uncomprimising party doctrin would ensure there were plenty of ''willing'' workers to carry out all these tasks. However, there was no money to fund this miracle and the Nazis knew they would need to annex new areas and their wealth to finance their program. Of course the public knew nothing of the economic reality. Hitler had always known that his policies meant inevitable war and while the German public enjoyed their new prosparity (albiet with no political rights), the Nazis drew up their plans for the annexation of huge areas to the east (agricultural and oil rich regions).
In the beginning this was brought to the german people as merely reclaiming German lands and freeing its peoples there. First the reannexation of the southwestern regions from France without hardly a word of protest. The annexation of Austria (Hitlers homeland). Then the Sudeten lands in Czecheslovakia followed by the entire annexation of the country. This caused somewhat more political rumbling in Europe, but at the end Czeckeslovakia was handed over to Hitler in the name of preserving peace.
Russia had earlier signed a nonagression pact with the Nazis which the Nazis would later use to full advantage when they invaded Poland and then launched there own surprise attack on the Soviet Union itself. The rest is history.

Why National Socialism?
1. A hard handed policy of achieving goals.
2. Tangible results.
3. A national sense of purpose and belonging.

National pride and a wealth to be enjoyed by all (as long as you happen to fit into the mould of what constitutes a national).
A sense of order in ones life and life goals of a higher order than ones own individual concerns.
A sense of belonging.
Having a scapegoat for past hardships (the Jews) that can now be dominated and extinguished.
A media that will only confirm the good of the regime and the achievements of you and your fellow citizen and supply you with clear guidlines in the process.

At times of crisis these can be powerful motivators.

I am not at all surprised about the rise of National Socialism in Germany and elswhere in Europe. Many people in other European countries saw Germany's rise from rags to riches and wanted to be part of that process. In many of the occupied countries there was a large body of population which supported the Nazi occupation. Even in allied countries such as Great Britain and the US there was a body of oppinion which agreed with the National Socialist doctrin. As Hitler respected English culture, this was also recipricated by other Western regimes. Only when there hand was forced did they eventually act (an in the USs case only after attack by the Japanese, over 2 years after Britain and her colonies had declared war on Germany, Japan and Italy).

If anyone wants to read an interesting and quite active forum on Axis history, go here:
http://forum.axishistory.com/index.php

Thanks for the link. The forum is absolutely great. I´ll recommend it to some american friends who are very interested in the topic.

@BruceAlmighty: It´s very interesting to see WHY all this happened. Most people don´t realize that there are reasons for everything...even for the worst episodes of mankind.
Actio = Reactio!!!

Hmmm, here's my own take on this Hitler: Left or Right? thingy . . .

Hitler was "leftist" ONLY if you were German, Nordic or however you want to put it. It was socialism ONLY for a specific group (his "volk"). If you were not in this group, this socialism wasn't applied to you (quite the opposite was applied to you, in fact!).

Bond, you speak of socialism as if it were a good thing. :)

Bond, you speak of socialism as if it were a good thing. :)

Socialism is a good thing!!! Don´t mistake it with comunism. Just because the russians fucked it up doesn´t mean it´s generally a bad thing.
What´s wrong about welfaresystems with healthcare and social fairness?

Socialism is natural to human beings, since we are individual but social entities.

There are 3 kinds of socialism:

Comunist- Socialism (totalitarian)
National-Socialism (totalitarian)
Democratic-Socialism (respect the individuality of the social human being)

A lotta nazi's survived and migrated you know.
livin the high life in Argentina. A lot also ended up in the former German colony Namibia/South West Africa and owing farms.

A lotta nazi's survived and migrated you know.
livin the high life in Argentina.

When the Musad picked up Adolf Eichmann in Buenos Aires (1960) he was living in a very modest little house and was travelling by bus to and from work. He was dressed very modesty with no signs of wealth.

I think the bigger the fish, the less flashy the lifestyle. Would you, with Musad on your tale?

Socialism is a good thing!!! Don´t mistake it with comunism. Just because the russians fucked it up doesn´t mean it´s generally a bad thing.
What´s wrong about welfaresystems with healthcare and social fairness?

I believe that socialism is a terrible, terrible thing. I quite concur with Churchill who said that whereas capitalism constitutes the unequal distribution of wealth, socialism constitutes the equal distribution of misery.

Socialism is natural to human beings, since we are individual but social entities.

There are 3 kinds of socialism:

Comunist- Socialism (totalitarian)
National-Socialism (totalitarian)
Democratic-Socialism (respect the individuality of the social human being)

No, socialism is not natural to human beings, not as I understand socialism. Now envy is natural to human beings, and this is one reason why socialism is able to gain such a foothold.

Also, socialism does not respect the individual. Quite the opposite. It is more concerned with leveling than in respecting the freedom of individuals to flourish in the ways they are able and the ways they desire.

No, socialism is not natural to human beings, not as I understand socialism. Now envy is natural to human beings, and this is one reason why socialism is able to gain such a foothold.

Also, socialism does not respect the individual. Quite the opposite. It is more concerned with leveling than in respecting the freedom of individuals to flourish in the ways they are able and the ways they desire.

So I take it that pretty much the entire developed world constitutes an axis of evil socialist empires. I live in a social democracy and my personal freedoms reach far beyond those of yourself.
Social democratic countries (France, Germany, Netherlands, Sweden, Norway, Finland, Denmark, Belgium, Italy, etc, etc) all enjoy a high standard of living and enormous civil liberties. The big difference is that we depart with a sizable part of our salaries to secure a broad welfare base. This is not entirely altruistic as we also have access to those benifits when needed.

Hey, I love going to the beach and checking out those lovely naked breasts and when I want to tan my arse, nobodies going to arrest me.

You in America dont know what the hell real freedom is. You get indoctrinated from year one into believing you live in the land of the free, but the reality is that most of your population are prisoners to the capitist machine dependant on what contract their employer will dish out to them. This all mixed in with a sick (so called) Christian values system.
The right to carry arms? You can keep it. And btw, your land of the free has more of its population locked up than is the case in any social democracy and a number of dictatorships as well.

Bond, you speak of socialism as if it were a good thing. :)
I don't know where you got that impression from my description, I was only describing National Socialism from (what I see as) an objective standpoint. No judgement was inferred in my description at all.

So I take it that pretty much the entire developed world constitutes an axis of evil socialist empires. I live in a social democracy and my personal freedoms reach far beyond those of yourself.
Social democratic countries (France, Germany, Netherlands, Sweden, Norway, Finland, Denmark, Belgium, Italy, etc, etc) all enjoy a high standard of living and enormous civil liberties. The big difference is that we depart with a sizable part of our salaries to secure a broad welfare base. This is not entirely altruistic as we also have access to those benifits when needed.

Hey, I love going to the beach and checking out those lovely naked breasts and when I want to tan my arse, nobodies going to arrest me.

You in America dont know what the hell real freedom is. You get indoctrinated from year one into believing you live in the land of the free, but the reality is that most of your population are prisoners to the capitist machine dependant on what contract their employer will dish out to them. This all mixed in with a sick (so called) Christian values system.
The right to carry arms? You can keep it. And btw, your land of the free has more of its population locked up than is the case in any social democracy and a number of dictatorships as well.

*spews Bud Light all over keyboard*

EASY ! Easy, subject of that grandiose Belgic Empire where one is free to air one's privates. I had not even begun to launch into patriotic hymns (but thanks for reminding me to polish my pistol).

America is a mixed-bag in my book. I would maintain only that America is less socialistic than is Europe, and not that it is the bellweather of capitalism. And I do not take lightly our freedom to retain relatively more (or much more) of the money we earn.

But yes, you're right about our value system. We pretty much thumb our noses at the goddess Agnostia.

Hmmm, here's my own take on this Hitler: Left or Right? thingy . . .

Hitler was "leftist" ONLY if you were German, Nordic or however you want to put it. It was socialism ONLY for a specific group (his "volk"). If you were not in this group, this socialism wasn't applied to you (quite the opposite was applied to you, in fact!).

Here's why I thought you were implying that socialism was a good thing. If you weren't, then I do apologize.

^Yes, I know that's what you were reading, but I don't see how that indicating that socialism was intended only for a specific group of people means that I think socialism is "good." I was simply pointing out that Hitler's socialism was only intended for ethnic Germans, that's all. No jugdement there at all.

Whatever.

I often wonder what life was like for the average aryan in the 30's. Morale must have been pretty high for such a country to go from striken poverty to a country that could have very nearly taken over half the planet. But the socialism side of the nazi regime, I know little about, how the average shop owner's life would have been. Was their morale based on a mix of pride and fear? Or all pride, or all fear? How were wages and profits dealt with.. Did adolf get the country back on its feet? Or only on it's knees?

I'm very open minded towards nationalism, but there is a lot more to learn before I can have an educated opinion. However, I hate those who flock to the ideals of National Socialism as a front to their primitive racialism..

^If you read through some of the threads on the Axis History forum I linked before, you can learn quite a lot about the questions you just asked. I've already browsed a few of the threads and they are quite interesting.

^If you read through some of the threads on the Axis History forum I linked before, you can learn quite a lot about the questions you just asked. I've already browsed a few of the threads and they are quite interesting.


Thank you, I'll have a look. =)

:bash:

:bash:
:bash:

Hitler was left and right. Before he joined the National Socialist Party he appeared in many political demonstrations on both side of the extreme wings. It appears that he was 'searching' for a party which is most favoured.

He joined Nazi not coz he liked the policies, but because he had the chance to speak out and draw public support.
Sorry, entirely incorrect. He wrote Mein Kampf and then he was already very much the opposite of Socialist and Communist parties in Germany. Check a decent encyclopaedia. In 1921 he was the absolute ruler of the National -Sozialistische Deutsche Arbeiders-Partei. This is during the Weimar Republik in which the NaZis had no say in the government (Hitler was jailed for 5 years)until it became the biggest faction in Parliament with some 40% in July 1932.
In short, the whole of Europe was very much swung from one extreme to another and he was the charismatic leader who could take charge while in most other countries, the ideology was considered ugly by most but still had support from large to huge minorities.
The confusion is in the use of the word 'socialist'. National-Sozialistisch and Sozialistisch were stark opposites. Antisemitism was the Nazi Game, Jews were associated with Marxist ideas.

A lot also ended up in the former German colony Namibia/South West Africa and owing farms.
No, Germany lost all their colonies in 1918/1919 after the Treaty of Versailles. These became British who were the occupators as early as 1916. Bolivia and Paraguay are the countries where they settled. Israeli military intelligence got hold of Eichmann (Mr NaZi ideology and planner of the murder of the jewsih population) in Argentina, brought him to stand trial and he was executed. Sometimes there is justice after all.

Some more Nazi propaganda pics. LOL this stuff is so cheesy!! :D

http://www.calvin.edu/academic/cas/gpa/posters/frauen.jpg

http://www.calvin.edu/academic/cas/gpa/images/maedel/dm3-43.jpg

A model Aryan family. :lol:
http://www.calvin.edu/academic/cas/gpa/images/fw/fw7-23.jpg

A huge gathering of the faithful
http://www.calvin.edu/academic/cas/gpa/images/rpt38/rpt38a.jpg

Another ideal Aryan family
http://library.flawlesslogic.com/nsdap.jpg

OK, enough of this stuff.

Obviously they were into mass conformity. Whether that is 'leftist' or 'rightist' is debatable.

I often wonder what life was like for the average aryan in the 30's. Morale must have been pretty high for such a country to go from striken poverty to a country that could have very nearly taken over half the planet. But the socialism side of the nazi regime, I know little about, how the average shop owner's life would have been. Was their morale based on a mix of pride and fear? Or all pride, or all fear? How were wages and profits dealt with.. Did adolf get the country back on its feet? Or only on it's knees?

I'm very open minded towards nationalism, but there is a lot more to learn before I can have an educated opinion. However, I hate those who flock to the ideals of National Socialism as a front to their primitive racialism..
Sorry, incorrect. Germany was with Britain the leading nation in Europe. Berlin was the cultural capital of the world. Daimler and Benz invented the automobile, Diesel invented ... Diesel engine. Radiation = Röntgen. Bayer, Siemens and Zeppelin are just a few of the inventors whose names you may recognise. Britain was richer but Germany for example had beaten France with just a few strikes in a 1870-1871 war. Russia was the starving nation, Greece, Spain and Portugal weren't much better off. The 1929 Wall Street crash had a domino effect on Europe and that's where the NaZis came in. Inflation was huge in Germany: 2000%.
The building of a military (forbidden after Germany's defeat in 1918) wasn't fought hard enough by France and Britain and this brought prosperity, on a false basis however. Germany had no oil and this is why Hitler took on a campaign to reach the Caucasus (North of Iran) to occupy these oilfields.

The thing about most European economies is that they're open-market with a huge democratic state influence. Very few countries have a 2 party system. Czechoslovakia was an open democracy from 1918 till 1938, then got closed behind the Iron Curtain (under the spell of the Soviet Republic). Dale's interpretation of socialist is pretty false. A lot of civil liberties were introduced by the socialist parties. This is what marks the difference with several communist parties. Though the Italian Communists have been influential and democratic as well: very different parties using the same word. It is very complicated, fascism picked the popular bits from communism and added a totalitarian flavour. Pick on poor minorties (jews, homosexuals, gypsies, ethnic minorites), crush them and make 'the majority' happy. Want more contradiction? Italy wasn't big on the prosecution of jews. More confusion? A lot of the jews fled to muslim societies... Check that evergreen Casablanca, with Humphrey Bogart and Ingrid Bergman. Directed by a Hungarian jew who fled to America about Morocco with the French military inbetween. Saying ''of course' to the NaZis and at the same helping jews.

LOL

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v190/Muse11/ayrainpropaganda.jpg

Please.
Do never ever connect any idea of LOL to this horrendous episode in European history.

http://www.wsg-hist.uni-linz.ac.at/Auschwitz/GIF/titel2.GIF

http://www.wsg-hist.uni-linz.ac.at/Auschwitz/HTML/Seite1.html

Auschwitz- FINAL STATION EXTERMINATION

Many Australians gave their life to beat National Socialism.

It was grim, ugly, murderous.

No need to patronise. I know of the tragedies only too well related to this horendous (in fact there are no superlatives, no adjectives. To give it any is to undestimate the whole epsiode) time of human evil.

..and if you had any sense, you wouldn't as an Australian just be concerned about Australians who gave their life, which by the way, they had no choice but not to - all the more unecessarily sad. You would mourn for all who had persihed. So it is not necessary to pull the "Australian Card".

Lauging is a way of coping. That's why The Irish do it at a wake. It was an innocent laugh at a terrible hair-cut.

Yeah, really. How can you NOT laugh at that haircut!! :lol:

:bash:

what was wrong with your Latitude pics?

Sorry, incorrect. Germany was with Britain the leading nation in Europe. Berlin was the cultural capital of the world. Daimler and Benz invented the automobile, Diesel invented ... Diesel engine. Radiation = Röntgen. Bayer, Siemens and Zeppelin are just a few of the inventors whose names you may recognise. Britain was richer but Germany for example had beaten France with just a few strikes in a 1870-1871 war. Russia was the starving nation, Greece, Spain and Portugal weren't much better off.

Certainly pre-WW1 this was the case. The formation of Germany upset the European power balance created by the Congress of Vienna in 1815. Britain and Germany made some moves towards an alliance at the turn of the 20th Century but in the end not a lot came of it as Nationalism took over in a race for the bigger Navy. Together Britain and Germany may have created a very different world - Kaiser Wilhelm II would eventually have died and the move to Representaitive Government would have become unstoppable. Two powerful democracies in Europe.

Instead Germany got dragged into a racial dispute between a decaying empire and a terrorist.

A similar thread can be found in Russia, instead of moderate reforms or at worst a capitalist revolution by the middle class, the extreme Left took over and in response to the [understandable] extreme hostility on the part of Western monarchies and democracies alike turned into a paranoid police state.

so Stalin must have been a right-winger then....

bad thread, very bad :no:
where is local moderators?

^ No coth. Don't take it literally. No-one here believes in fascism as the answer (certainly hope not). so don't worry.

Coth. Maybe there is a cultural misunderstanding here. As Muse pointed out, no one here is condoning anything. I think Muse's post (5th one down) on this page explains the humour aspect. Aussie's do have a unique, well, kind of British off beat humour that intends no offense.

bad thread, very bad :no:
where is local moderators?

Dude? What? Why? It's a period of history we should never forget, and only through education and awareness of BOTH sides of the story, both political perspectives, and an awareness and respect of the terrible deaths of those taken by the holocaust and of those members of the country that instigated the holocaust. Moderating and hiding and forgetting history is not the way of avoiding such a tragedy again...

censorship = :nono: