Since many of the threads in the Iraqi forum start off with a question, i thought it would be wise (like other forums) to have a questions thread.

So, for those that have any questions, post here.

How does the folks in Baghdad view the south?

How do they view Basra?


How does it go with the rail system?

How does the folks in Baghdad view the south?

How do they view Basra?


How does it go with the rail system?

-south is considered backward by baghdadis, and at least until 2003, the south received very little development fund, further increasing their marginalisation.

-basra is viewed better, but still very few people from baghdad visit basra (unlike before 1979, when basra was a very popular destination for baghdadis). Whilst basra is the economic heart of Iraq and provides 80% of its wealth... most of that has gone to baghdad historically, leaving basra a wealthy but robbed and impoverished province.

-Iraq has an old rail system. The british installed 1700km of railway lines in southern/central Iraq between 1915 and 1920. In the following 90 years... the iraqis only added 400km to it. iraq has a single-track, non-electrified railway system with diesel electric locos, which cover 10 provinces out of 18 provinces in iraq. the tracks are used rather seldomly nowadays and with the absence of proper organisation of railways for cargo use... means a further reduction in capacity utilisation... however that hasn't stopped the government from throwing money at railways but with hardly any economical use case worked out...

is this hotel in baghdad or erbil?

Kempinski Hotel under construction (first 5-star hotel in Iraq)
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3281/2384296295_60d7048cd8_b.jpg

^^ it's the new Kempinski Hotel in erbil

thanks elusive

i want to know have the standard of life generally speaking improved since 2003, or was it better during his time ?

i want to know have the standard of life generally speaking improved since 2003, or was it better during his time ?

Everything has improved for the Kurdish regions in the north since 2003, but life has probably become worse in the Arab regions of Iraq because of the amount of secterian fighting that takes place there.

Kurdish regions are very politically stable and are booming :)

Everything has improved for the Kurdish regions in the north since 2003, but life has probably become worse in the Arab regions of Iraq because of the amount of secterian fighting that takes place there.

Kurdish regions are very politically stable and are booming :)

yes thats the impression we get too, how about essential things like sanitation and electricity, was is better before? have new power generating plants been installed?

I'm not 100% sure about that. I am not Iraqi so just basing these on news and other info I read.

I think it is the same thing with the Arab-Kurdish difference. The Arab parts of Iraq because of lack of money, they get less of things like sanitation and electricity than they did before the invasion. But in the Kurdish regions, because economically it is actually improving significantly (unlike Arab regions) so more and more people are getting access to sanitation, electricity, internet, higher education, supermarkets, etc.

After the 91 no fly zone in Kurdistan, Saddam cut the national electricity that was connected to Kurdistan and so, the regional government had to buy from Iran and turkey, however now the region has its own power plants and more are on the way, I've only been to Kurdistan and I don't know about the rest of Iraq, but in Kurdistan we had 16 hours of electricity and the rest came from private generators, so your not really without electricity, and like I said more power plants are planned.

The Arab parts of Iraq because of lack of money, they get less of things like sanitation and electricity than they did before the invasion.

That is not totally true. 80% of the oil production comes from ''the Arab parts'' of Iraq, so the money exists. You can say it's the corruption.

i want to know have the standard of life generally speaking improved since 2003, or was it better during his time ?

difficult to define "standard of life". Iraqi cities were more "ordered" before 2003.

but after 2003 the following progress happened:
-income - average "salary" was about $15 before 2003, today it is $600
-telephone lines (today 18 million iraqis have phone lines... before 2003 it was 1.1m)
-before 2003 no one had access to the full internet and computer useage was very low. today.... its a completely different world.
-cars - (before 2003 there were 1M cars with an average age of 18 years, today there are 4million cars with an average age of 7 years)
-TV - the number of channels went from 2 state channels to thousands of satellite channels
-air conditioning - the number of airconditioners increased by several orders of magnitude
-trade and travel - the number of iraqis travelling abroad for holidays went from nearly zero to hundreds of thousands.
-media - before there were a couple of state newspapers and no international papers. today there are dozens of private papers and access to every international publication.
-consumer goods - with open markets iraqis have a much wider access to consumer goods than before (and with higher incomes, they can actually afford them).
-from an industrial perspective - iraq's oil refining, drilling and other industries are finally starting to be rehabilitated, ditto for power generation and distribution.
-number of international airports - before 2003 there were 2, both of which were closed. Today there are 6 open and 2 in construction with the number of flights in and out of iraq reaching over a 100 flights a day (compared to 0 before 2003)

That is not totally true. 80% of the oil production comes from ''the Arab parts'' of Iraq, so the money is existed. You can say it's the corruption.

it depends. Iyad allawi just won the most seats in Kirkuk, that makes 99% of oil production from "arab parts" of Iraq not 80%.

it depends. Iyad allawi just won the most seats in Kirkuk, that makes 99% of oil production from "arab parts" of Iraq not 80%.

The most? as far as I remember it was 6 to allawi and 6 to KA so unless my maths is wrong its 50% 50%. and 40% of iraqs oil production comes from kirkuk and I find it offensive to call kirkuk an arab city.

The most? as far as I remember it was 6 to allawi and 6 to KA so unless my maths is wrong its 50% 50%. and 40% of iraqs oil production comes from kirkuk and I find it offensive to call kirkuk an arab city.

about 17% of production is from kirkuk (and falling).

about 17% of production is from kirkuk (and falling).

Unless Its dropped now which is highely unlikely seeing how the central government wants to use up most of the oil before article 140, you still said "99% of it comes from arab parts" which is completely untrue. again unless my maths is completely useless kurdistan produces 40,000 - 100,000 barrels and kirkuk (lets take your number 17% thats more or less 20% comming from non arab parts.

difficult to define "standard of life". Iraqi cities were more "ordered" before 2003.

but after 2003 the following progress happened:
-income - average "salary" was about $15 before 2003, today it is $600
-telephone lines (today 18 million iraqis have phone lines... before 2003 it was 1.1m)
-before 2003 no one had access to the full internet and computer useage was very low. today.... its a completely different world.
-cars - (before 2003 there were 1M cars with an average age of 18 years, today there are 4million cars with an average age of 7 years)
-TV - the number of channels went from 2 state channels to thousands of satellite channels
-air conditioning - the number of airconditioners increased by several orders of magnitude
-trade and travel - the number of iraqis travelling abroad for holidays went from nearly zero to hundreds of thousands.
-media - before there were a couple of state newspapers and no international papers. today there are dozens of private papers and access to every international publication.
-consumer goods - with open markets iraqis have a much wider access to consumer goods than before (and with higher incomes, they can actually afford them).
-from an industrial perspective - iraq's oil refining, drilling and other industries are finally starting to be rehabilitated, ditto for power generation and distribution.
-number of international airports - before 2003 there were 2, both of which were closed. Today there are 6 open and 2 in construction with the number of flights in and out of iraq reaching over a 100 flights a day (compared to 0 before 2003)

good summary, these effects were mainly due to the opening up of iraq's economy to the world and lack of sanctions...

it depends. Iyad allawi just won the most seats in Kirkuk, that makes 99% of oil production from "arab parts" of Iraq not 80%.

Don't forget that Allawi's party has many Turkmen personalities, so it's not 100% Arab party.

Unless Its dropped now which is highely unlikely seeing how the central government wants to use up most of the oil before article 140, you still said "99% of it comes from arab parts" which is completely untrue. again unless my maths is completely useless kurdistan produces 40,000 - 100,000 barrels and kirkuk (lets take your number 17% thats more or less 20% comming from non arab parts.

KRG production is 20k barrels not 40-100k (about 0.67% of national production)
as for the 500k from kirkuk (if we take your 50/50 kurd/non kurd split) would make 8.5% "kurdish" percentage from kirkuk production and 8.5% "arab+turkmen" share of kirkuk.

using that calculation the KRG production + 50% of kirkuk production would be approx 10%-11% of Iraq's gross production.

Now kirkuk is a 80 year old "declining" field. Whereas Iraq's southern fields are all new and being ramped up now. In 7 years time when production reaches 7M barrels / day, kirkuk field would be (VERY optimistically) around 8% of national production.... 50% of which (KRGs share shall we say) is just 4%. (if KRG increases oil production from 0.02M to 0.4M, then that adds another 5%)... declining share from 11% to 9%.

KRG receives 17% of Iraq's budget, and pockets its own tolls and taxes on top (whereas other provinces send it to central budget... so KRG gets a % of import duties coming to basra, but basra doesn't get anything from tolls collected by KRG).

;)

no offence meant in any way, just demonstrating one of the reasons why KRG is not so keen on "independence" right now.

Don't forget that Allawi's party has many Turkmen personalities, so it's not 100% Arab party.

I wrote the term "arab parts" (and in quote marks) in answers to "koobideh" use of the term! (and you did the same!).

good summary, these effects were mainly due to the opening up of iraq's economy to the world and lack of sanctions...

and removal of dictatorship... freedom of travel, no army conscription, freedom to read anything etc... a massive boost, that completely changed people's lives.

also, one change from saddam's time, is that previously the money would be held by central government and used to fund projects directly. whereas now most of the national budget is paid out in salaries / pensions / social-security, This has positive impact on people's consumer spending... and negative repercussions on the quality of services that the government can provide (since all the money is with the people, but the people don't want to spend it on paying "international price" for electricity or cleaning the street in front of their house or paying to have rubbish removed...

the adjustment from "state controled" mentality to "pay for what you get" mentality will take some time.. but eventually Iraq should be better off.

KRG production is 20k barrels not 40-100k (about 0.67% of national production)
as for the 500k from kirkuk (if we take your 50/50 kurd/non kurd split) would make 8.5% "kurdish" percentage from kirkuk production and 8.5% "arab+turkmen" share of kirkuk.

using that calculation the KRG production + 50% of kirkuk production would be approx 10%-11% of Iraq's gross production.

Now kirkuk is a 80 year old "declining" field. Whereas Iraq's southern fields are all new and being ramped up now. In 7 years time when production reaches 7M barrels / day, kirkuk field would be (optimistically) around 8% of national production.... 50% of which (KRGs share shall we say) is just 4%. (if KRG increases oil production from 0.02M to 0.4M, then that adds another 5%)... declining share from 11% to 9%.

KRG receives 17% of Iraq's budget, and pockets its own tolls and taxes on top (whereas other provinces send it to central budget... so KRG gets a % of import duties coming to basra, but basra doesn't get anything from tolls collected by KRG).

;)

no offence meant in any way, just demonstrating one of the reasons why KRG is not so keen on "independence" right now.

I believe its at 100k as of 2009 and planned to 200k then 1 million barrel by 2012 not to mention the gas deals signed by the KRG with Europe as Kurdistan has quite a bit of gas.


region, Ashti Hawrami, announced on Thursday that his ministry seeks to increase the daily oil production in the region to 3-4 million barrels in the coming four years, noting that revenues will increase during this period to $25 billion.

“The region has 45 billion barrels of oil and 200 trillion cubic meters of natural gas,” Hawrami said at a press conference n Arbil, attended by Aswat al-Iraq news agency, noting that the ministry has prepared a strategy to increase the oil and gas production.


http://www.iraqdirectory.com/DisplayNews.aspx?id=13644

No body really knows kirkuks real population ethnic break down, we'll have to wait for the census assuming that there wont be any cheating.

I don't know what to say about ashti (same with shahristani!)...

but I'd rather listen to the international oil companies words than those two liars...

http://www.dno.no/Press--Media/Press-Releases/4142/DNO-International-reports-a-working-interest-production-of-23478-bopd-in-June-2010/

I don't know what to say about ashti (same with shahristani!)...

but I'd rather listen to the international oil companies words than those two liars...

http://www.dno.no/Press--Media/Press-Releases/4142/DNO-International-reports-a-working-interest-production-of-23478-bopd-in-June-2010/

I doubt DNO i the only company operation in kurdistan there are a few other companies also, as far as I know from the KRG website in june 2009 it was 100k barrels per day.

http://www.krg.org/articles/detail.asp?rnr=223&lngnr=12&smap=02010100&anr=29333

yaba. I work with iraqi oil ministry. i don't think this production is happening in secret?

if you talk about taq taq.. its not in operation http://www.ttopco.com/ and is only 40k in addition to DNO's 15k. The field has not even been developed yet (there's no permanent rigs and pumps only a "temporary" EFP in place)... so it can't produce oil continously like a "developed" field.

yaba. I work with iraqi oil ministry. i don't think this production is happening in secret?

if you talk about taq taq.. its not in operation http://www.ttopco.com/ and is only 40k in addition to DNO's 15k.

Im just telling you what I get from the website

one word, get the info from the production companies ;) the government source is using weasel words to create ambiguity... there is simply no 100k barrel/day capacity in KRG today... and potential "peak" is in the 400k/day developed over the next few years, if they try to produce 1M barrels per day, they will deplete the reservoirs too quickly and will damage the oil with water seepage and it will result in worsened ASSAY and more difficult extraction.

I wrote the term "arab parts" (and in quote marks) in answers to "koobideh" use of the term! (and you did the same!).

Oh OK, I guess I didn't notice it.

what a bout this project?
http://bonah.org/news.php?extend.546

^^ we have a thread for it here: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1089141

Though not much news.. and we can't find credible sources either :(

its got SCAM written across its forehead...

I wonder how they intend to buy off all that privately owned property, knock it all down and then build a low rise development that will never pay for itself (since taking into account the price they paid for all the real estate in the first place is incredibly high...).

so the only way such old areas can be redeveloped is if high rise developments and multi-storey malls are built... no other way is economical or possible in a democracy... I suppose saddam and khairalla tulfah could have done it, but I don't think we'll be engaging in those kind of tactics in the future (I hope).

What are your thoughts on the official end of american combat operations in Iraq?

^^I don't live in Iraq, so I don't know how the 'average' Iraqi person feels, but I personally think it's a very important and positive milestone. :-)

There are still 50,000 American troops left, and that's is a big number (when compared to Afghanistan, which is geographically a significantly larger country than Iraq). So security wise, I don't believe that the situation could deteriorate to levels seen in 2006/2007.

The Iraqi Security Forces have demonstrated on multiple occasions that they are far more competent than they were before. But the fact they still haven't formed a government is a big concern for everyone.

What are your thoughts on the official end of american combat operations in Iraq?

Iraq does not have a combat capable air force, air defence or navy. therefore the US forces will stay in Iraq until 2020 at the very least when Iraq's military can take over the above roles.

There's no need for US ground forces now although Iraq's conventional ground forces will only complete their armament program by 2015 (the 2012-2015 period will see a 3 year perios where Iraq has some small vulnerability in armour and artillery).

I can't speak for anyone but myself, but in my view the US military is the power that keeps iraq's new democracy development on track AS WELL as stop neighbouring countries from trying their luck.

I personally wish that Iraq can rely on the US military for a longer period because we really should spend our money on building the country and its economy rather than burning the money on a useless military.

Isn't it better not to rely on an oil-dominated economy? I find it quite depressive not to see the Arab parts of Iraq grow (like in Kurdistan) with that amount of oil being sold daily. I know there is widespread corruption on the Kurdish side as well, but the capitalist mechanism has actually gained foothold.

Isn't it better not to rely on an oil-dominated economy? I find it quite depressive not to see the Arab parts of Iraq grow (like in Kurdistan) with that amount of oil being sold daily. I know there is widespread corruption on the Kurdish side as well, but the capitalist mechanism has actually gained foothold.

kurdistan is doing better than the arab parts partly because it gets a disproportionate amount of money.

KRG collects all tolls and does not pay it to baghdad. Whereas all the tolls and taxes collected (e.g. from port of basra) are shared with kurdistan.

KRG also has a 17% of budget even though the 3 provinces have 13% of population.

On top of that, KRG shares in the "rest of Iraq's" budget for big projects like power and fuel supply and ministerial budgets... (the 17% is only their own "internal" budget)... so in effect 13% of the population end up receiving close to 22-25% of the total budget...

adding those two together alone makes for an average "share of income" about 30%-35% higher for kurds than arabs.

of course on top of that there's the fact that kurdistan is safer and international companies are investing there at the moment in lieu of the rest of Iraq (though this is changing now, finally).

and finally, the "low level" corruption in kurdistan is lower than the rest of iraq, and kurdistan, being safe, is also benefiting from capital inflows by kurds from abroad whereas the rest of iraq suffers from lots of low level corruption and capital flight (Iraq is really really screwed).

As for "capitalism" in kurdistan. I would say apart from the danger/terrorism, Iraq is much less dictatorial than KRG. No business can work in kurdistan without a "kurdish" licence (which means one of the kurdish "chiefs" participation). so for example TELCOs that have an "iraqi" licence can't operate in kurdistan (e.g. zain - at least until last year?). I remember in 2005 or so, in erbil I couldn't call sulaymania :D yet from basra, or diwania, or samara i could call anywhere in Iraq and my simcard worked everywhere... just one poignant example of the "less than free market" nature of KRG (at that time at least).



My only surprise is that the rest of Iraq hasn't simply cut up kirkuk in half (half for Iraq and half for kurdistan) and told kak barzani that Iraq is declaring independence from kurdistan. :D but that would only add 7% to the Iraqi budget... so maybe its not worth it?

kurdistan is doing better than the arab parts partly because it gets a disproportionate amount of money.
Does it? It actually does not get a dime from the oil money that Baghdad receives. Even the money collected from the recently found wells in Kurdistan ,which have been set up with KRG's budget, comes into the hands of Shahristanis ministry.

KRG collects all tolls and does not pay it to baghdad. Whereas all the tolls and taxes collected (e.g. from port of basra) are shared with kurdistan.
This is not entirely true. The 17% portion is taken from a different source of allocated income. Also, non-Kurdistani Iraqis settling in Kurdistan do get benefits from the KRG unlike vice versa.


KRG also has a 17% of budget even though the 3 provinces have 13% of population.

I doubt that outdated number (13%) very much. The KRG has a lot of disadvantages compared to the rest of Iraq. For instance the KRG population/area ratio (density) is much more negative compared to non-KRG Iraq which means much more is being spent on infrastructure per capita in the KRG-territories. And the Kurdish area is mountainious and rugged, whereas Arab Iraq has the advantage that the population is settled near the rivers. Also, the KRG spends the money on a larger area than the 3 provinces (with Baghdads knowledge).

On top of that, KRG shares in the "rest of Iraq's" budget for big projects like power and fuel supply and ministerial budgets... (the 17% is only their own "internal" budget)... so in effect 13% of the population end up receiving close to 22-25% of the total budget...
Again, inaccurate numbers (pop. figures date from decades ago). If what you say is right, the non-KRG inhabitants (around 78-80%) receive 99% of the oil income of Iraq. Even if so, I do not believe this would be the binding factor of the income contrast.


of course on top of that there's the fact that kurdistan is safer and international companies are investing there at the moment in lieu of the rest of Iraq (though this is changing now, finally).

and finally, the "low level" corruption in kurdistan is lower than the rest of iraq, and kurdistan, being safe, is also benefiting from capital inflows by kurds from abroad whereas the rest of iraq suffers from lots of low level corruption and capital flight (Iraq is really really screwed).

I think these points make much more sense than the few dollars made at border points. Security is the most important key in building a stable and working economy, attracting foreign companies and recovering the brain drain (from which Arab Iraq is still suffering). Red tape is also much more prevalent and severe in Arab Iraq than in Kurdistan.

As for "capitalism" in kurdistan. I would say apart from the danger/terrorism, Iraq is much less dictatorial than KRG. No business can work in kurdistan without a "kurdish" licence (which means one of the kurdish "chiefs" participation). so for example TELCOs that have an "iraqi" licence can't operate in kurdistan (e.g. zain - at least until last year?). I remember in 2005 or so, in erbil I couldn't call sulaymania :D yet from basra, or diwania, or samara i could call anywhere in Iraq and my simcard worked everywhere... just one poignant example of the "less than free market" nature of KRG (at that time at least).

Agree on KRG's nature on doing business. However, nowadays there are much more telecommunication providers in Kurdistan than those two. Internet providers are popping up, there is competition now in a lot of sectors. Besides, you could have flown from Erbil to Sulaimani in 2005, whereas you could not from Baghdad to Basra (at the time).



My only surprise is that the rest of Iraq hasn't simply cut up kirkuk in half (half for Iraq and half for kurdistan) and told kak barzani that Iraq is declaring independence from kurdistan. :D but that would only add 7% to the Iraqi budget... so maybe its not worth it?

Do you really think Kirkuk is of that importance to the Kurdish economy, after not having benefited from its oil (while Baghdad had/has since 2003) and experienced already such an economic boom? The pros and cons of Iraqi Kurdish independence are not so different for both sides, after all it is an approx. 500,000 non-KRG inhabitants that have taken residence in the KRG since 2003. Not vice versa.

Yes there are a lots of points I agree with, but it's not as easy and simple as you picture it. Take care and salaam :)

well partiya-rast. what can I say... de-nile is not just a river in africa. Since you're so completely oblivious to the actual facts and completely deny the economic split in Iraq there's really very little I can do.

It seems the KRG supporters believe 100% what the masta says, and really never question what their spokesmen and media tell them. So until you acquire the will to look for the truth no matter what public statements are made by "my gang" "your gang" then you simply won't be able to debate, as its just a copy-paste of KRG propaganda.

needless to say that pretty much every line of defence you wrote about the KRG above is nonsense. If you wish I can break it down to you, do let me know if you are.

PS. just in case you accuse me of being an "arab apologist" or "arab propagandist" do have a read through my comments about the lies told by the "baghdad government" all over the threads here. so just because I take to account the KRG government and the "media" on some of the more outrageous claims they make, I do exactly the same about Baghdad... (and I hope you do so too!)

well partiya-rast. what can I say... de-nile is not just a river in africa. Since you're so completely oblivious to the actual facts and completely deny the economic split in Iraq there's really very little I can do.

It seems the KRG supporters believe 100% what the masta says, and really never question what their spokesmen and media tell them. So until you acquire the will to look for the truth no matter what public statements are made by "my gang" "your gang" then you simply won't be able to debate, as its just a copy-paste of KRG propaganda.

needless to say that pretty much every line of defence you wrote about the KRG above is nonsense. If you wish I can break it down to you, do let me know if you are.

PS. just in case you accuse me of being an "arab apologist" or "arab propagandist" do have a read through my comments about the lies told by the "baghdad government" all over the threads here. so just because I take to account the KRG government and the "media" on some of the more outrageous claims they make, I do exactly the same about Baghdad... (and I hope you do so too!)

I was expecting you to understand it, or possibly you do but don't show it... we both know NO major oil company in the world is willing to put aside the rest of Iraq and possibly other Arab states and get into KRG deals, and so the KRG has to give out better prices then the central government to get any deals at all, and if you didn't know (Do some careful searching into who the shareholders of the companies investing in Kurdistan are) and you'll see that the "contact" also comes with lobbying in the USA as as well as economic/political advice. does KRG have flaws and corruption? Of course it does and every government does, BUT they still manage to help the public and provide security.

And lets not kid our self we all know what the Sunni politicians think of Kurdistan. Lets not forget what maliki did in 2008, and when the next Saddam will take over Iraq, there is no trust between any of the Iraq groups and rightfully, everyone should have the right to prepare for the worst.

well partiya-rast. what can I say... de-nile is not just a river in africa. Since you're so completely oblivious to the actual facts and completely deny the economic split in Iraq there's really very little I can do.

It seems the KRG supporters believe 100% what the masta says, and really never question what their spokesmen and media tell them. So until you acquire the will to look for the truth no matter what public statements are made by "my gang" "your gang" then you simply won't be able to debate, as its just a copy-paste of KRG propaganda.

needless to say that pretty much every line of defence you wrote about the KRG above is nonsense. If you wish I can break it down to you, do let me know if you are.

PS. just in case you accuse me of being an "arab apologist" or "arab propagandist" do have a read through my comments about the lies told by the "baghdad government" all over the threads here. so just because I take to account the KRG government and the "media" on some of the more outrageous claims they make, I do exactly the same about Baghdad... (and I hope you do so too!)

Take it easy, I did not accuse you of anything nor am I a KRG-supporter, it seems you make suggestions that only run through your own mind.

I just do not swallow how you blame the mismanagement of Baghdads gov, despite their geographic/political advantages, on others. You like to display the relative Kurdish success as a product of "Arab solidarity" and "Kurdish arrogance". That is sadly very weak, we do not need to start the usual Arab-Kurd rift because one area is making more progress than the other. PS: I observe Iraq with my own eyes and reliable sources within Iraq. I do not need "objective" Iraqi media outlets.

Take it easy, I did not accuse you of anything nor am I a KRG-supporter, it seems you make suggestions that only run through your own mind.

I just do not swallow how you blame the mismanagement of Baghdads gov, despite their geographic/political advantages, on others. You like to display the relative Kurdish success as a product of "Arab solidarity" and "Kurdish arrogance". That is sadly very weak, we do not need to start the usual Arab-Kurd rift because one area is making more progress than the other. PS: I observe Iraq with my own eyes and reliable sources within Iraq. I do not need "objective" Iraqi media outlets.

You are putting words into my mouth. If you deny the difference in income allocation, that is up to you. I did not, and never will, cover up any wrongdoing or inefficiencies by anyone in Iraq (and if you re-read my post on the matter you will see it clearly there). But the massive disparity in allocation of state revenues towards KRG is right there. if you choose to deny it. your problem.


I will answer your points.


Does it? It actually does not get a dime from the oil money that Baghdad receives. Even the money collected from the recently found wells in Kurdistan ,which have been set up with KRG's budget, comes into the hands of Shahristanis ministry.

Do tell, where does the KRG's 17% comes from? Also the KRG wells production is not going anywhere, since KRG gave so much % to the companies and Baghdad will simply not pay the companies the money that KRG promised them! Imagine, KRG promises some money to X, and then goes to baghdad and tells them, I promised to pay X this much money, Baghdad you go pay them... you tell me how right that is...

This is not entirely true. The 17% portion is taken from a different source of allocated income. Also, non-Kurdistani Iraqis settling in Kurdistan do get benefits from the KRG unlike vice versa.


ALL KRG's 17% comes from BAGHDAD. How does it not receive a dime?? Please tell me where that 17% comes from. I would be fascinated to know


I doubt that outdated number (13%) very much. The KRG has a lot of disadvantages compared to the rest of Iraq. For instance the KRG population/area ratio (density) is much more negative compared to non-KRG Iraq which means much more is being spent on infrastructure per capita in the KRG-territories. And the Kurdish area is mountainious and rugged, whereas Arab Iraq has the advantage that the population is settled near the rivers. Also, the KRG spends the money on a larger area than the 3 provinces (with Baghdads knowledge).

The numbers for KRG are the same accuracy as the numbers for the rest of Iraq. Also KRG does NOT have the lowest population density in Iraq, Anbar, Najaf, Muthanna all have lower population densities. and finally, the "arab areas" had you ever seen them, have a very complex hydraulic system of canals, dams and water regulators that cost a lot more than roads cost in KRG.


Again, inaccurate numbers (pop. figures date from decades ago). If what you say is right, the non-KRG inhabitants (around 78-80%) receive 99% of the oil income of Iraq. Even if so, I do not believe this would be the binding factor of the income contrast.

Same inaccurate population figures for the rest of Iraq... they are all based on the same census + ration programme data... so how is KRG being slighted? as for the 99% of oil income... what are you smoking?? where does the 17% KRG money comes from? the moon? also on top of the 17% the KRG shares in and takes money, and services from the 83% for the rest of Iraq's population... KRG gets funded to have 2 parliaments, the one in KRG paid from 17% and the parliamentarians and ministers from KRG in baghdad getting their millions from the rest of Iraq's 83%. are you denying all this? KRG gets 17% of money... then it receives fuel and electricity and services from baghdad from the 83% for the rest of iraq. are you denying this?? what about the kurdish ministers in baghdad... who use the 83% of the budget "for arab areas" to have projects in kurdistan, like the municipalities minister (instead of cleaning up baghdad, which is her job, she spends money on kurdistan... which already HAS a budget for cleaning), similarly the environment minister in baghdad or the foreign minister who sets up "kurdish cultural offices" at baghdad's expense around the world. All those things should be paid from KRG money... but they are funded from baghdad's 83%.


I think these points make much more sense than the few dollars made at border points. Security is the most important key in building a stable and working economy, attracting foreign companies and recovering the brain drain (from which Arab Iraq is still suffering). Red tape is also much more prevalent and severe in Arab Iraq than in Kurdistan.

I agree, KRG is safe and doing business there (in some sectors) is easier than Iraq. This encourages a lot of investment by kurds abroad, foreign companies, and iraqis escaping from baghdad! 100% agreed! and I am very happy and proud that Iraqis are investing in Kurdistan rather than jordan or syria or Dubai.

Agree on KRG's nature on doing business. However, nowadays there are much more telecommunication providers in Kurdistan than those two. Internet providers are popping up, there is competition now in a lot of sectors. Besides, you could have flown from Erbil to Sulaimani in 2005, whereas you could not from Baghdad to Basra (at the time).

You could fly from basra to baghdad in 2005... in fact did it in 2004. also you can travel around 15 provinces of Iraq with a single simcard and local call to all provinces... this was already in place in 2004... just shows the "dual mafia" structure of KRG will eventually bog it down.



Do you really think Kirkuk is of that importance to the Kurdish economy, after not having benefited from its oil (while Baghdad had/has since 2003) and experienced already such an economic boom? The pros and cons of Iraqi Kurdish independence are not so different for both sides, after all it is an approx. 500,000 non-KRG inhabitants that have taken residence in the KRG since 2003. Not vice versa.

KRG receives a dispropotionate amount of oil from Iraq and kirkuk is a declining field with little importance. it is of little importance to anyone BUT KRG. KRGs economic boom was based on three items: receiving double the budget of the arabs overall + safe environment for foreign companies + kurdish emmigrants bringing inward economic investment (real estate mostly). The key driver was always the increased budget. Of course the stolen cars and machinery from baghdad during the hawasim also helped kick start things in 2003... and I still remember going with the ministry staff to KRG to try and recover some stolen equipment from baghdad to be told "these are now Kurdish property, we need it for our future country, finders keepers". Is that teh way for a ministry to behave? openly engaging in LOOTING, and afterwards being unashamed about it? we all know the "car numbers" in suly and erbil from the hawasim cars... not to mention power generators, machinery, and whatever else could be carried off in 2003 was carried off... the "market" in baghdad in betawiyeen was where the loot was sorted and carried off... but you knew that already.

Yes there are a lots of points I agree with, but it's not as easy and simple as you picture it. Take care and salaam :)

Okay so i have a question on Iraq's property law.

So the situation is as follows, prior to being FORCED to flee to Iran by Saddam and co, a man who is brother to my aunt's husband had property in Baghdad, it was under his father's name who passed away so naturally the property passed down to him and his brother (it was a joint tenancy). Of course being left no choice but to go next door, and unbeknown to him while he was in Iran, the house was later occupied by an Iraqi - named "X" - who falsely signed papers claiming that this is his house and presented it to the authorities (this all happened during Saddams regime). So now by law, "X" has claimed the property as his and this stands to be the case to this day.

It was only until this man had gone back to Iraq after the fall of Saddam to find his home in the hands of a stranger. So my question is, does he have a chance to regain his property, does the fact that he was forced to flee by the previous regime give him any bargaining power?

Personally i cannot believe people have no compassion, this man so happens to be blind, unmarried and co-dependant on his brother and my aunt and while trying to reason with "X" he is getting no where. Although "X" has admittedly confessed after stealing his property he has been "struck" with bad luck, he has lost close relatives and he himself was imprisoned by the Americans, so now he has told the man that he is willing to sell the house. This is absolutely disgusting and i would like someone who know's the Iraqi legal system pretty well on how this case will be attributed?

BigDreamer can you please make this thread sticky since it took me a while to find it and will help other forumers too, thank you. :)

To be honest I think the local authority will make up whatever law they want depending on who pays more bribes..

as for the standard law, I don't know.

Yes i thought the same, i am not so optimistic anymore about those practising the law.

Don't listen to Kurd123, that's not true. No local authority can "make up a law", and this sort of thing is ruled by the Tapu office and the Judiciary, not any "local" authority.

Yes you can reclaim your property but you have to go to court and have the original documents with you (including evidence that you were deported). If you can also record the voice of X admitting the truth. its a bonus. Contact a good lawyer to help you, relatives there would be able to help you find one.

It may take a while, but its certainly possible.

Another route would be to go to the local Sadrist movement or Badr Organisation office. They can also try and "convince" X to vacate. This would certainly be quicker and cost you nothing.

We have a similar problem with the government who took possession of some of our lands in the 1970s, and are pursuing it in court!

But previously we had some people who took over our house in Adhamiya and refused to leave. We pursued it in court and got them out! The police evicted them with a court order.

Be careful though, X might try a "nasty" revenge by "paying" some "rent" to you directly to the court. Do not accept this, as accepting it means that you accept that X stayed in your house legaly and makes you liable to 30+ years worth of property taxes (causing the house to be repossessed by the tax authorities!) - our very own X tried this trick but we didn't fall for it.

Overall cost to us about $300 in court fees, lawyer fees (he was a relative and didnt charge us).

Thank you Sheytan for the information. Glad to know it worked out for you, im hoping the same goes for this situation. I cant believe those people went as far as to try tricking you, its truly shocking :ohno:

BigDreamer can you please make this thread sticky since it took me a while to find it and will help other forumers too, thank you. :)

certainly. I'll also move it to the main page.. the questions on this thread are very informative and so are the answers !

So the new capital of Iraqi Kurdistan is Erbil? and the old one is Suleimaniya?

If so, when did it change? and was there any particular reason?

So the new capital of Iraqi Kurdistan is Erbil? and the old one is Suleimaniya?

If so, when did it change? and was there any particular reason?

The capital of Iraqi kurdistan has always been erbil, at least officially.. but in the 90's after due to some very stupid reasons when the PUK and KDP ruled separate areas of Kurdistan, suleymanya was the capital of PUK controlled area. But now off course the capital is Erbil.

definition of me3dan: low socioeconomic people with no taste. lol



I always thought that was the actual Arabic meaning of that word as well.. until i found out it's an actual ethnicity in iraq... if this was anywhere else, it would be considered a racial slur.. lol.. but it's been used for so long, I don't think lots of people realise it.

Mi'dan are the natives of Iraq's southern marshes and not a "low socio economic" group. These people and lifestyle are the last remnants of indigenous cultures dating back to the Sumerian era. But of course baghdadis denigrate them (and eventually wiped them out) just like what other "civilised countries" did to native cultures...

Mi'dan are the natives of Iraq's southern marshes and not a "low socio economic" group. These people and lifestyle are the last remnants of indigenous cultures dating back to the Sumerian era. But of course baghdadis denigrate them (and eventually wiped them out) just like what other "civilised countries" did to native cultures...

They are ! I didn't know that at all.. I assumed it was just another ethnicity that we have, had no idea they are decedents of Sumerians. how sad

I've stopped using the term after I learned what it really meant anyways..

lot s of iraqis use the term "shroogi" as another derogatory term, does it also have another meaning relating to ethnicity etc?

the word is now used to denote what i said above, most words originate from some other meaning/concept anyway...

the word is now used to denote what i said above, most words originate from some other meaning/concept anyway...

no. that's simply not true. the ma'dan were attacked and dehumanised prior to their demise/assimilation/killing. The association of the word "me'dan" with "low class" is itself a denigration. Would you like it if "baghdadi" became the new nickname for "prostitute"?

Let me illustrate with one example:
"I visited amsterdam, and saw loads of baghdadis in the windows of the red light district. This one red headed baghdadi was OK, but she was too expensive, so i chose some asia looking baghdadi instead. I prefer the brothel baghdadis to the street walkers because the baghdadis on the street are dirty with STDs".

See?


They are ! I didn't know that at all.. I assumed it was just another ethnicity that we have, had no idea they are decedents of Sumerians. how sad

I've stopped using the term after I learned what it really meant anyways..

lot s of iraqis use the term "shroogi" as another derogatory term, does it also have another meaning relating to ethnicity etc?

"Shroogi" literal meaning is "from east of the euphrates" It is specifically a reference to people from Kut and Amarah. However in the "modern use" it has become a general derogatory term about shias, and nowadays anyone who is poor, dressed shabily etc is called a "shroogi" by sunni arabs and christians (another example of a perfectly normal term, being used for racial denigration in a very generalised manner).

no actually , i just rememberd mi3dan are thoes ppl who work in farms and make like dairy milk and cheese and stuff like that, generally coming from the south, places like nassriya and simawa.

they also talk funny, like they say agilak, not agollak, and they use the term cha, before many sentences, and many other funny words,, honeslty they are easy to identify, if u know what i mean. ;)

btw, then what are shrooq? شروك؟

it's STI's now not STD's and thanks for the analogy, im not condoning it...i wasn't the one who made this association. i think its wrong on many levels but a person in a modern context saying m3edi does not think about the original meaning.

no actually , i just rememberd mi3dan are thoes ppl who work in farms and make like dairy milk and cheese and stuff like that, generally coming from the south, places like nassriya and simawa.

you are wrong. The people who "work on farms" are simply "felahin" unless they are from the marshes (me'dan). So whilst a small minority of people in Samawa and Nassiriya are indeed "mi'dan" (i mean they are from the marshes), they are a tiny minority, and most of the felahin are not mi'dan.

they also talk funny, like they say agilak, not agollak, and they use the term cha, before many sentences, and many other funny words,, honeslty they are easy to identify, if u know what i mean. ;)

Basrawis use the exact same words. This is simply the southern Iraqi accent and has nothing to do with Mi'dan who are distinct group of people living (historically) exclusively within the marshes of Iraq.

btw, then what are shrooq? شروك؟


I already explained above.


The terms "mi'dan" and "shroog" have become derogatory words in modern baghdad and the sunni-arab parts of Iraq and was simply the social part of the "racial-superiority" agenda of Iraq's previous sunni-arab dominated governments.

you are wrong. The people who "work on farms" are simply "felahin" unless they are from the marshes (me'dan). So whilst a small minority of people in Samawa and Nassiriya are indeed "mi'dan" (i mean they are from the marshes), they are a tiny minority, and most of the felahin are not mi'dan.



Basrawis use the exact same words. This is simply the southern Iraqi accent and has nothing to do with Mi'dan who are distinct group of people living (historically) exclusively within the marshes of Iraq.



I already explained above.


The terms "mi'dan" and "shroog" have become derogatory words in modern baghdad and the sunni-arab parts of Iraq and was simply the social part of the "racial-superiority" agenda of Iraq's previous sunni-arab dominated governments.

thanks encyclopedia

i know this is getting off topic, but i'm rather interested by this now.. maybe I should move it to another thread..

but why are they called m3dan? is it a name of a region or a city ? and do they sound different from the southern Iraqi accent? were the original native m3dan muslim during the calphite in Iraq, or they had their own religion from ancient sumer ?

thanks encyclopedia

what will we do without our Encyclopedia Sheytanica :lol: :cheers:

i know this is getting off topic, but i'm rather interested by this now.. maybe I should move it to another thread..

but why are they called m3dan? is it a name of a region or a city ? and do they sound different from the southern Iraqi accent? were the original native m3dan muslim during the calphite in Iraq, or they had their own religion from ancient sumer ?

The ma'dan have their own very different dialect of Arabic with some strange words. Southern iraqis do not understand the maadan dialect, but all the maadan also speak normal Iraqi (the southern iraqi you all know).

Originally the maadan were using the old Sumerian era gods. Then they became subba and finally shia Muslims in the last few centuries. Though until very recently the subba were still a very large percentage.

The ma'dan have their own very different dialect of Arabic with some strange words. Southern iraqis do not understand the maadan dialect, but all the maadan also speak normal Iraqi (the southern iraqi you all know).

Originally the maadan were using the old Sumerian era gods. Then they became subba and finally shia Muslims in the last few centuries. Though until very recently the subba were still a very large percentage.

WOW never knew that .. rlly helpfull

I always thought that was the actual Arabic meaning of that word as well.. until i found out it's an actual ethnicity in iraq... if this was anywhere else, it would be considered a racial slur.. lol.. but it's been used for so long, I don't think lots of people realise it.

Like how Kawliya is a racial slur against Iraq's Roma community, yet the term is so acceptable *sigh*

^^ we have a Roma community in Iraq?! I didn't know this at all !

^^ we have a Roma community in Iraq?! I didn't know this at all !

Well apparently the Kawliya are originally Roma.

I wouldn't be surprised if we had an Icelandic community, Iraq is as diverse as a box of chocolates and its such a shame to discriminate against these minorities for they make Iraq, well.. Iraq.

^^ It's really my dream to see Iraqis are as enlightened and tolerant as you are.. unfortunately, things are going the other way..

^^ It's really my dream to see Iraqis are as enlightened and tolerant as you are.. unfortunately, things are going the other way..

Thank you, but yes it is very sad that this is the way the world works, some people only look out for their own and forget others in the process.

Are there any countries working on the re-building of Iraq other than the U.S?

Are there any countries working on the re-building of Iraq other than the U.S?

the US isn't "working on the reconstruction of Iraq", very few US companies have contracts for rebuilding Iraqi infrastructure and most of the US companies in Iraq worked on constructing facilities and providing services to the US military there, and had nothing to do with Iraq as such.

Most of the real estate construction in Iraq is done by Iraq, Turkish and other regional companies. Most of the oilfield work is done by the large international IOCs and companies like schlumberger.

one of the few items iraq bought from the US recently were 56 gas turbines from GE to be used in power stations (Iraq bought these turbines on their own, and they tendered out contracts to various local and regional companies to commission the power stations).

Roads and bridges are mostly built by Iraqi companies, apartments and houses are also mostly built by Iraqi companies, and the same for sewage pipes and railway tracks etc...

Iraq's new ports are being built by various international companies (the new offshore terminals by a singaporean company).

etc... very little "US" as you can see.

^^ That's brilliant!! Good to hear the infrastructure sector thriving in the Iraqi economy :cheers:

Has there been any polls indicating what percentage of the Iraqi population is glad that Americans came in 2003 and approve of the subsequent development? How does it different to opinions in 2003?

^^ hmm.. I personally don't know of such polls.. but I'm no expert in this area.

I think the question is far too generic to be polled IMHO. but who knows.

maybe a stupid question,but is iraq really one of the dangeroust countries in the world?if so,how does it affect the daily life?
i am really curious about it all :)

Different danger levels in different parts of Iraq. Even within one city, danger levels can be from very high to very low. Of course the locals know where not to go. But the americans usually stumble around the first few times and only learn what areas to avoid after losing a few of their men. But by avoiding those areas, they reduced their own casualties (but of course, conceded control of areas to "outlaws").

maybe a stupid question,but is iraq really one of the dangeroust countries in the world?if so,how does it affect the daily life?
i am really curious about it all :)

no...a recent study showed areas of iraq to be safer than most cities like detroit in the USA where crime is rampant...also Iraq is moving up in the global peace index, Somalia is currently ranking last in the world.

^^ right now, Iraq is one of the safest counties in the middle east !

Like how Kawliya is a racial slur against Iraq's Roma community, yet the term is so acceptable *sigh*

You must know that if you use the word Kawliy'a to other Iraqis, you will definitely end up in big fight. kawliy'a are Gypsies (Ghajjar).

SheytanElkebir, what's the Linguistic meaning of m3'edi?

SheytanElkebir, what's the Linguistic meaning of m3'edi?

:lol:

we've been through this lol

^^
you misunderstood the question.

He explained who are Me3dan, and the explanation is correct, but he hasn't given us the linguistic significance of m3'edi(المعنى اللغوي).

^^ m3'edi means va7ed aghbar ghabi :D

^^ great >< , there goes the entire discussion on the last page down the toilet lol

lol no we have! ><

Hey guys i have thought about why the progress in south Iraq is slow contrary to north Iraq. I mean there are security in South Iraq despite in the middle.

Another question is ; When i was in Iraq a lot of people told me that the government are stealing peoples oil money and so on. If they do so then why does the citizens not react by doing demonstrations?

Hey guys i have thought about why the progress in south Iraq is slow contrary to north Iraq. I mean there are security in South Iraq despite in the middle.

Another question is ; When i was in Iraq a lot of people told me that the government are stealing peoples oil money and so on. If they do so then why does the citizens not react by doing demonstrations?

I love your questions, very innocent!. Don't get me wrong here brother. But, you see everyone knows the government steals from the people's oil money but no one moves around simply because the same people whose money is getting stolen, are the ones who voted for the thieves!

You see people in south Iraq, got a new kind of drug! it is not opium or heroin, it is called RELIGION! I am not atheist or communist or secularist but I think the statehood should be put a side from religion.

^^ I fully agree with you. But I'm pretty sure that wanting religion to be separated from the government makes you a secularist.

Whenever I see videos or pictures of Iraq, there is always dust on the streets. This is not the case with the Gulf states which are much cleaner. What is the reason for this?

Whenever I see videos or pictures of Iraq, there is always dust on the streets. This is not the case with the Gulf states which are much cleaner. What is the reason for this?

desertification of the iraqi landscape...before there used to be more palm trees and that kept major sand storms under control. Iraq and Iran are cooperating together to plant more palm trees to prevent these dust storms hitting major cities like Baghdad, Tehran etc.

...

desertification of the iraqi landscape...before there used to be more palm trees and that kept major sand storms under control. Iraq and Iran are cooperating together to plant more palm trees to prevent these dust storms hitting major cities like Baghdad, Tehran etc.

Interesting. Thanks.

Don't recall seeing any palm trees when I was last in Tehran (though it's not the kind of thing I would have noticed back then anyway). Presumably they are imported - palm trees wouldn't naturally exist in Tehran would they (bit too cold I would guess).

^^ no the palm trees are being planted in Iraq (but co-sponsored by both countries)

this is just one of many efforts that are going on.. the ministry of agriculture has another separate initiative to increase palm trees, currently we have 21 million palm trees.. they want them to increase to over 30 million (as once was the case).

no the sandstorms are from the iraqi desert which also affect cities in iran

^^ no the palm trees are being planted in Iraq (but co-sponsored by both countries)

this is just one of many efforts that are going on.. the ministry of agriculture has another separate initiative to increase palm trees, currently we have 21 million palm trees.. they want them to increase to over 30 million (as once was the case).

it's sad to hear about the iraqi date industry struggling...iraqi dates are the best!

1- Iraqi dates were the best. You should see all those honey like tasting Saudi gigantic dates now! amazing thing done with genetics, something we should start doing in Iraq, we unfortunately, still using old traditional methods in plantation of Palm trees. Countries like the UAE and Saudi Arabia are far very involved in such modern techniques.

Btw, you guys are sure Iran and Iraq are cooperating on the plantation projects? Never heard of that before.

2- Regarding sand storms, on my latest visit to Basra, I came from Dubai by Emirates, the whole trip was amazing with blue skies and golden deserts seen from below when reaching Kuwait. But the moment we stepped into Iraq, heat outside the window flamed, I wouldn't touch the window! really hot! and outside u can see all those kinds of sandy winds. Not mentioning, those turbulence pushing the plane in the opposite direction that made a women scream and me throwing up!

For the first time in my life on Air Planes, I threw up! Down in the airport, everything is covered with dust, the whole roads taking u away from the place are covered with sand, dust gets through the windows of the airport, and the management as I was told got fed up with cleaning it daily then having to do it again and again, so instead they wait for it to pile up to sweep it away!

Emirates uses an AirBus A330 which is considerably bigger than the A320 used by Gulf Air when they used to operate Iraq before. So imagine how strong those winds are!

^^

A top Iranian environment official said on Monday Tehran and Baghdad will jointly pay $1.2 billion in a project to reduce the number of sand dunes in a bid to cut the number of sandstorms from Iraq.

"In order to reduce gravel levels we have signed an agreement with a foreign company worth $1.2 billion to cover a million hectares (2.47 million acres) of Iraqi soil in the next five years," the official IRNA news agency quoted the head of Iran's Environmental Protection Organisation as saying.

The name of the foreign firm was not given.

"This initiative began with 500 hectares and in our negotiations (with Iraq) it was decided to either use fossil materials (petroleum products) or biological ones to stabilise the dunes," Mohammad Javad Mohammadi-Zadeh added.

Media and some local officials have blamed sandstorms on countries west of the Islamic republic, particularly Iraq which has been hit by desertification and deforestation because of dam construction and declining agriculture.

In mid-April, 20 of Iran's 31 provinces had to close schools and government offices, and flights to and from some western cities were cancelled because of sandstorms mostly originating in neighbouring Iraq.

The problem of sandstorms from Iraq has been blamed on two decades of on-off wars, with officials there saying the number of palm trees has fallen by two thirds from around 36 million to just 12 million.

In September 2010, Iran, Iraq, Syria, Qatar and Turkey signed an accord in Tehran aimed at tackling the sandstorms problem over the next five years.

(c) 2011 AFP

^^ no the palm trees are being planted in Iraq (but co-sponsored by both countries)

this is just one of many efforts that are going on.. the ministry of agriculture has another separate initiative to increase palm trees, currently we have 21 million palm trees.. they want them to increase to over 30 million (as once was the case).

Actually to 40 million

^^ thanks for the correction :)

no p :)

just found out that there's an Emaar Iraq...does anyone know if they're planning any projects?

^^ very intersting ! Thanks for that elusive .. I just googled it too, and it checks out :)

that's great I guess. I wonder what projects will they be building ?!

^^ oops that was meant to go in the questions thread...
yeah i hope they're planning something soon, like a housing project...it would be awesome

^^ done

They had a project in Kurdistan and they cancelled it a while ago. I guess it was not secure enough for them!

Hey guys. I have been wondering about why the people in southern Iraq isn't thinking about implementing federalism since the conflicts between sunni and shia is clear. Additionally if the southern ''states' will become federal it will result in alot of opportunites. They would be economically stronger than now ( because of the oil) and the conflicts will probably end?

Another question is:
The oil in Kurdistan isn't distributed to the whole country but only to the kurds. Then why the hell does the iraqi government give 17% of iraq's budget to the autonomous iraqi kurdistan? Are the politicians idiots? Because i can't see any strategic purpose for this -.-

why does every1 want to break up Iraq ?
smaller = weaker

Well okay sorry i didn't explain my self clearly. I want federalism implemented in Iraq so southern states can optimize their economic and political situation.

ok guys, can we give political posts a break for a while? this forum isn't suppose to be very political anyways.. we seem to have a surge in political posts in recent weeks

ok sry :D

"you all are Iraqis so you must know what me3dan means."

it means Natives / in Arabic: (ابناء البلد الأصليين)

"most importantly in Arabic my friends"

They are indigenous ie They are Sumerian.

"7abaiby do not bully them, or have a bad image of them."

Hey guys. I have been wondering about why the people in southern Iraq isn't thinking about implementing federalism since the conflicts between sunni and shia is clear. Additionally if the southern ''states' will become federal it will result in alot of opportunites. They would be economically stronger than now ( because of the oil) and the conflicts will probably end?

Another question is:
The oil in Kurdistan isn't distributed to the whole country but only to the kurds. Then why the hell does the iraqi government give 17% of iraq's budget to the autonomous iraqi kurdistan? Are the politicians idiots? Because i can't see any strategic purpose for this -.-

I want to answer you, but I hold to what Big Dreamer says.

I want to answer you, but I hold to what Big Dreamer says.

write a private message! :D

inshallah but not today.

Hey guys. I have been wondering about why the people in southern Iraq isn't thinking about implementing federalism since the conflicts between sunni and shia is clear. Additionally if the southern ''states' will become federal it will result in alot of opportunites. They would be economically stronger than now ( because of the oil) and the conflicts will probably end?

Another question is:
The oil in Kurdistan isn't distributed to the whole country but only to the kurds. Then why the hell does the iraqi government give 17% of iraq's budget to the autonomous iraqi kurdistan? Are the politicians idiots? Because i can't see any strategic purpose for this -.-

Where was I when you wrote these amazing two paragraphic questions! Big D i think it is time to get ourselves a political thread. And you can set some simply TIGHT rules....I think it is healthier than posting questions and debating in every post....lol

We want a political thread!

We want a political thread!

NO!! Let's keep the peace!

NO!! Let's keep the peace!

I dunno why everytime boys wanna do their political stuff .... girls come in between saying no....! :ohno:

Politics is Men sport.....it is healthy for them believe me...:nuts:

I say we want a political thread!

I dunno why everytime boys wanna do their political stuff .... girls come in between saying no....! :ohno:

Politics is Men sport.....it is healthy for them believe me...:nuts:

I say we want a political thread!

:carrot:

I dunno why everytime boys wanna do their political stuff .... girls come in between saying no....! :ohno:

Politics is Men sport.....it is healthy for them believe me...:nuts:

I say we want a political thread!

I do not want to portray myself as an ultra feminist so i shall refrain from saying what i really want to say lol but really a political thread will only end up being locked, lets face it we are Iraqi we struggle to remain civil when it comes to voicing opinions. Besides this forum has done very well without a politics thread we do not need one to ruin it now.

I do not want to portray myself as an ultra feminist so i shall refrain from saying what i really want to say lol but really a political thread will only end up being locked, lets face it we are Iraqi we struggle to remain civil when it comes to voicing opinions. Besides this forum has done very well without a politics thread we do not need one to ruin it now.

I agree actually. This forum isn't for politics, lets keep it that way.

Yeah definitely NO political thread ever. Especially with some of the people we have on this forum it would not be a good idea :D

Yea... I agree about some of the ppl (there ^^) but i think implementing some rules will do fine ....besides we iraqis can manage...

guys, we do have a politics thread in Baghdad cafe !! it's always been there, but no one uses it

I rather that we shove all of the politics stuff in there, so to keep the rest of the forum clean..

I do not want to portray myself as an ultra feminist so i shall refrain from saying what i really want to say lol but really a political thread will only end up being locked, lets face it we are Iraqi we struggle to remain civil when it comes to voicing opinions. Besides this forum has done very well without a politics thread we do not need one to ruin it now.

couldn't agree anymore !

unfortunately, after moderating this forum for a while, I have concluded that people will always talk about politics now matter what..

so the best solution is just to keep one thread for this crap, let them beat each other up!!

I don't even know why you would want to debate politics on this forum, do you think Nouri Almaliki or Massoud Barazani visit this forum :lol: and even if they did, do you think the give a shit about what you have to say ?

the only thing that you will achieve is to make people dislike you, and create new enemies for yourself.. I've seen it happen a million times already !

guys, we do have a politics thread in Baghdad cafe !! it's always been there, but no one uses it

I rather that we shove all of the politics stuff in there, so to keep the rest of the forum clean..
what is the thread called? Politics? :p

^^ yes

here it is:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1146819

^^ yes

here it is:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1146819


Thanks a million BIG D.... I like to make ppl hate me... better hated than loved.

Ahhhooooooo lol i guess we will be seeing more of the political thread then lol

^^ it's okay :) it just means that the rest of us who want to avoid politics can just skip that thread and enjoy the rest of the forum..

too bad for me that i'm still required to check up on the thread every now and then to make sure things are going smoothly -___-

Thanks a million BIG D.... I like to make ppl hate me... better hated than loved.

:lol: that's not the right attitude to have in life !

common why are you always so negative.. people join this forum to make new friends not the other way around !

Usually, I join forums to make ppl UN-JOIN! lol

Usually, I join forums to make ppl UN-JOIN! lol

:lol:

Usually, I join forums to make ppl UN-JOIN! lol

well your doing well .. we lost one person already :D

well your doing well .. we lost one person already :D

who?

Shaytan.... u see I always aim high! Got the most contributing one first.... will start with the rest now.

The final ppl to go through are KURDI and CHOUNZ...lol

Shaytan.... u see I always aim high! Got the most contributing one first.... will start with the rest now.

The final ppl to go through are KURDI and CHOUNZ...lol

:ohno: i miss sheytan

^^I miss Elkebir, you also don't complete the projects. hehe

What is the tallest structure in Iraq and how tall is it?

Shaytan.... u see I always aim high! Got the most contributing one first.... will start with the rest now.

The final ppl to go through are KURDI and CHOUNZ...lol

Leave the best for the last.. :D

What is the tallest structure in Iraq and how tall is it?

maybe this one:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1373285

or this

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1422716

I have a question !!

does anyone know which hotel this video is talking about ? it's a 5 star hotel in Najaf .. do we have a thread for it yet?

it's called قصر الخورنق

there has been few 5 star hotel announcments for najaf, I'm confused which one this is suppose to be !


Mqlp1C_Jnf8

^^ http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1397894

:cheers:

Thanks alot Persi, your a legend

I'll change the name of the thread to the hotel name :)

Do we have any buildings in Baghdad with over 20 floors?

No, not yet

No, not yet

Do you know if there are any planned buildings with over 20 floors in Baghdad?

Or anything close to 20 floors?..

depends what you mean by planned? plenty of proposals, but if you mean U/C .. hmm.. not so sure

depends what you mean by planned? plenty of proposals, but if you mean U/C .. hmm.. not so sure

Yes, proposals or anything under construction, a real tall structure, basically a real skyscraper..

I have another question...

does anyone know what's going to happen to el rahman mosque??..are they going to finish constuction on it...I know it started before 2003 and stopped when the war started etc.. but whats hapening to it now?

here's a pic:
http://www.pbase.com/lsyd/image/120530084/original.jpg

I would love for them to finish constructing it.. it would be a really beautiful mosque and one of the biggest in the Middle East.. it would be a great Baghdad landmark.

I really hope they decide to continue with the construction soon.

I would love for them to finish constructing it.. it would be a really beautiful mosque and one of the biggest in the Middle East.. it would be a great Baghdad landmark.

I really hope they decide to continue with the construction soon.

Apparently it was only 18 months before completion when the 2003 war started..I remember 2 years ago, 'amanat baghdad' anounced they will continue contruction on the mosque, but nothing changed yet..!:ohno:

Yes, proposals or anything under construction, a real tall structure, basically a real skyscraper..

Basmaya Proj, Baghdad Gate Proj, Al-rafidain resort, reserve bank building, "city of the future" proj, sader city reconstruction will also have some..

infact, click on the construction section, and sort the thread by name, all of the projects will be sorted by location, you can see all the ones for baghdad, and find out their status etc.

but be warned.. you might be disappointed, since we're still very much in fantasy land :ohno:

Basmaya Proj, Baghdad Gate Proj, Al-rafidain resort, reserve bank building, "city of the future" proj, sader city reconstruction will also have some..

infact, click on the construction section, and sort the thread by name, all of the projects will be sorted by location, you can see all the ones for baghdad, and find out their status etc.

but be warned.. you might be disappointed, since we're still very much in fantasy land :ohno:

Thanks I'll check out, the 'inshalah projects' than :uh:

^^ yup, with the exception of basmaya, the rest are far from reality

Apparently it was only 18 months before completion when the 2003 war started..I remember 2 years ago, 'amanat baghdad' anounced they will continue contruction on the mosque, but nothing changed yet..!:ohno:

Shame :ohno:

I think they have a new use for it. I wonder why u guys didn't hear this. But, they plan to turn it into the future Parliament building.

i believe that's an old rumor

I doubt the would, theyve already got a billion government buildings, why use a mosque :?

you mean an unfinished Mosque... that no one wishes to rebuild.

someone before metioned it will be the one of the biggest in mid -east.. lol i doubt it

lets see
1- .. masjid alharaam (alka3ba)
2-mar8ad ilimam alritha ...
3- .. masjid alnabawi
4- dont really know whats next

5- saddam's alrahma mosque, with the proposal from a guy who had no rahma.......

They will build a new parliament building ..
and this building was suppose to get completed, but Idnno its on Hold..
maybe we should open a thread for it ?

They will build a new parliament building ..
and this building was suppose to get completed, but Idnno its on Hold..
maybe we should open a thread for it ?

Yes, someone should open a thread for it.

I think they have a new use for it. I wonder why u guys didn't hear this. But, they plan to turn it into the future Parliament building.

Not this one, but the other one which should be the biggest mosque in saddams time in the middle east or the world, the mosque is in the old muthana airport.

But Al rahman mosque should be the biggest in Iraq if it was completed.

there is other one in Musul, which have the name after saddam al H7aiwan.

even al rahman mosque was not completed, people pray inside the mosque, is this not ridiculous?!?!

Not this one, but the other one which should be the biggest mosque in saddams time in the middle east or the world, the mosque is in the old muthana airport.

But Al rahman mosque should be the biggest in Iraq if it was completed.

there is other one in Musul, which have the name after saddam al H7aiwan.

Ohhh yess, I remember now, your right, it's not this mosque which they wanted to make into a government building, it's the other one, which only has the foundations, near muthana airport

And the other mosque your talking about in mosul, is this:

http://static.panoramio.com/photos/original/8759971.jpg

yea I remember the first time and last time I visited Mosul after post war. I saw a quite big unfinished mosque but since than I've not heard about it. Thanks for bringing some memories back, Furat!

yea I remember the first time and last time I visited Mosul after post war. I saw a quite big unfinished mosque but since than I've not heard about it. Thanks for bringing some memories back, Furat!

'Forat' hmmm...I wanted to make that as my username..let me see if I can change it

and your welcome

there's probably a dispute over ownership whether its for "waqf alshi3i" or "waqf alsunni" give it to alwaqf alshi3i and it will be finished in no time lol

there's probably a dispute over ownership whether its for "waqf alshi3i" or "waqf alsunni" give it to alwaqf alshi3i and it will be finished in no time lol

haha, I bet they'll change the name and it will be something like, Masjid Alsadr alawal or althani ... so expected from jama3atna

:tiasd:

i never tried this one.

there's probably a dispute over ownership whether its for "waqf alshi3i" or "waqf alsunni" give it to alwaqf alshi3i and it will be finished in no time lol

There is no dispute, the shi3a occupied that mosque a very long time ago, in fact they even hold Friday prayers there :

http://www.life.com/news-pictures/2766992/unfinished-mosque-in-baghdad

http://www.aljazeerah.info/News%20photo%20negatives/2003%20news%20phot%20negatives/June%2003/ndmostews3.jpg

Images while under construction: 2001-2003

http://nabeehfarhan.drupalgardens.com/content/2001-2003-al-rahman-mosque-axis-e2-baghdad-iraq

And, there's already a thread for this, here:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=494490&page=6

^^I mentioned that they pray in the mosque, and no waqf controversy about this mosque, but there are dispute between the Waqf al Sunni and waqf Al Shi3i, about owning Imam Al Askari shrine.

I believe that the Waqf al Shi3i must get the responsibility of owning Imam Al Askari shrine, because the Waqf al Sunni was unable to take care of it, and they will never do it!

^^I mentioned that they pray in the mosque, and no waqf controversy about this mosque, but there are dispute between the Waqf al Sunni and waqf Al Shi3i, about owning Imam Al Askari shrine.

I believe that the Waqf al Shi3i must get the responsibility of owning Imam Al Askari shrine, because the Waqf al Sunni was unable to take care of it, and they will never do it!

ummm, no offence but keeping waqf al Sunni responsible for Imam al askari shrine is not happening.. we've already seen what happened and we don't want it to happen again.

lets make the christian waqf do it ! :D
they are the best

lets make the christian waqf do it ! :D
they are the best

agreed!

Why not the Sabba too?

Or wait they might fight the christian waqf over it .....lol

ummm, no offence but keeping waqf al Sunni responsible for Imam al askari shrine is not happening.. we've already seen what happened and we don't want it to happen again.

exactly!

lets make the christian waqf do it ! :D
they are the best

:lol::lol:

There is no dispute, the shi3a occupied that mosque a very long time ago, in fact they even hold Friday prayers there :

http://www.life.com/news-pictures/2766992/unfinished-mosque-in-baghdad

http://www.aljazeerah.info/News%20photo%20negatives/2003%20news%20phot%20negatives/June%2003/ndmostews3.jpg

Images while under construction: 2001-2003

http://nabeehfarhan.drupalgardens.com/content/2001-2003-al-rahman-mosque-axis-e2-baghdad-iraq

And, there's already a thread for this, here:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=494490&page=6

Praying in an unfinished mosque?

Is this really the biggest mosque in the world?

Many things are wrong here :S

^^ I was told that it's mainly offices in the unfished building, dunno about prayers :S

it's NOT the biggest mosque in the world.. not even close


we don't have a thread for this in this forum.. no one really knows the status

^^ I was told that it's mainly offices in the unfished building, dunno about prayers :S

it's NOT the biggest mosque in the world.. not even close


we don't have a thread for this in this forum.. no one really knows the status

It would of actually been one of the biggest mosques in the world, it can handle over 100,000 people..

The mosque is 250 meters (750 feet) across and covers 11 acres.

The shia hawza took control of the mosque within days after the invasion, they've been holding Friday prayers there ever since.

This is the other mosque, it's a replica mosque of um el ma'rik mosque but 3 times bigger, it would of been the third biggest mosque in the world..it's 830 feet across.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/iraq/images/sadam-grand-2004.jpg

^^^ Apparently the minarets on this mosque, was supposed to be as tall as burj el arab

I bellieve this one would of had 64 domes..

http://mw2.google.com/mw-panoramio/photos/medium/54084902.jpg

The two mosques are quite close to each other

http://pds12.egloos.com/pds/200906/24/60/a0118060_4a41a74a3b84f.jpg

Than the problem is solved. One for Shiaas and one for Sunnis..

Than the problem is solved. One for Shiaas and one for Sunnis..

I don't think they'll continue building the other one, as it takes much longer and it's hardly built, the planned construction time for it was something like 20 years..It would cost a lot to restart construction on it

El rahman mosque is more likely to be built, since a lot of is already complete, however it also needs a large sum of money, to complete it.

Ppl. Can I say something here. Now, that we have this MOSQUE RUSH! I think it is better for Iraq now to invest in industry projects and all other sectors like agriculture and oil. The CBI director announced today that in few years time Iraq has a project to make the Dinar one of the most respected currencies in the region. Till that time comes and we have lots of money to spare for building big mosques, churches or whatever. Everyone can pray home!

Till that time comes and we have lots of money to spare for building big mosques, churches or whatever. Everyone can pray home!
spot on!

Praying together is much much better than doing it alone in Islam.

We're not talking about building new mosques and churches all we're saying is that they should complete Al-Rahman Mosque since it's probably over 50% built, the main structure is there, they just need to finish it..

I don't think they'll continue building the other one, as it takes much longer and it's hardly built, the planned construction time for it was something like 20 years..It would cost a lot to restart construction on it

El rahman mosque is more likely to be built, since a lot of is already complete, however it also needs a large sum of money, to complete it.

it will brother, but not a mosque, but the new Iraqi parliament will be placed there instead. They will use all metals and blocks, and other remaining construction materials etc.for to complete the building, so it's will not be useless.

it will brother, but not a mosque, but the new Iraqi parliament will be placed there instead. They will use all metals and blocks, and other remaining construction materials etc.for to complete the building, so it's will not be useless.

told u :bash:

Hammer over my head or Euphrates head??????????!!!!!

Hummer over the heads of those who think it will not be a parliament!

Hummer over the heads of those who think it will not be a parliament!

what are you talking about?, who said it will not be a parliament building?

And how are you so sure it will be a parliament building?

what is this crap, shunni si3i, they need to stop building mosques and start building schools.

what's your source quicknuetron ? this was mentioned here a while back, there is nothing official that this building will be a parlimant (or any government or even a secular building !).. i belive the only official statment made (as far as I know) was that the project is on-hold for now, until funds become available.

here you have Big Dreamer and Euphrates, report from al fayhaa.

9DUXQj-2faw&feature=channel_video_title

do you believe my statement now Habibi Big Dreamer?

Thank you QUICKn..... told u all didn't I?
now, go fight over some husainyah...:)

^^ That's in the Muthanna airport... where the grand saddam mosque was supposed to be built.. or whatever it's called.
Yes the new parliament will probably be built there.

We were talking about the Rahman Mosque though.

^^ +1

that's correct.. that report didn't mention Al-rahman mosque quickneutron !

it's talking about the giant one (near muthana airport, see the map posted in the previous page), (supposedly it's designed based on Saddam's thumbprint !!) which makes it rather ridiculous and inappropriate for our future parliament !!

come on saddam's thumbprint can never be erased off Iraq! so either ways we should build it! cuz, u r between two options, one knock down 160+ well built pillars and start all over (with today's quality of building) or just complete the building with a new use!

here you have Big Dreamer and Euphrates, report from al fayhaa.

9DUXQj-2faw&feature=channel_video_title

do you believe my statement now Habibi Big Dreamer?

Thank you, can't wait for the renders and construction

^^ I was told that it's mainly offices in the unfished building, dunno about prayers :S

it's NOT the biggest mosque in the world.. not even close


we don't have a thread for this in this forum.. no one really knows the status

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1144729

no problem Euphrates

^^ +1

that's correct.. that report didn't mention Al-rahman mosque quickneutron !

it's talking about the giant one (near muthana airport, see the map posted in the previous page), (supposedly it's designed based on Saddam's thumbprint !!) which makes it rather ridiculous and inappropriate for our future parliament !!

BD, if you go to Basrawii first post in page 8, and go to my first post in page 9 when I correct him. then you understand what I mean

and the same with the Euphrates, he meant this mosque in the report not Al Rahman Mosque. go to page 10 and see his fourth post.

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1144729

sorry, I meant a proper thread in the projects & construction section, not in baghdad cafe :)

the reason why we dont have such a thread is because we are not sure to what's really going on

now looking at this thread, I think it's a good idea to move the posts posted here to the other one

BD, if you go to Basrawii first post in page 8, and go to my first post in page 9 when I correct him. then you understand what I mean

and the same with the Euphrates, he meant this mosque in the report not Al Rahman Mosque. go to page 10 and see his fourth post.

sorry about that quickneutron.. I didn't read your post on page 9 !

thanks for that :)

we were in agreenment all along then lol ..

come on saddam's thumbprint can never be erased off Iraq! so either ways we should build it! cuz, u r between two options, one knock down 160+ well built pillars and start all over (with today's quality of building) or just complete the building with a new use!


I 100% support constructing it as another building, but I dont think it should be the parliment ..

but I guess if they modify the design so that it's not based on saddam's thumbprint, i wouldnt mind

Yea and we can gain money from Saddam-fans tourists.. :D

Yea and we can gain money from Saddam-fans tourists.. :D

good idea, we should also open saddams tomb for tourism and tax the hell out of these be3ran khalijis, shamis and north african arabs who love him. $100 per entry well make a fortune.

^^ and well use that money to fight ba3this :D

^^I like your ideas guys :D

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/55/167907166_e5ab52f864_z.jpg?zz=1

http://subjunctive.net/klog/images/2011/mosque-liftoff.jpg

source:http://subjunctive.net/klog/2011/10/mos_eisley_mosque/


:D

^^ Hahahahahaha :lol: ... that's hilarious.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/55/167907166_e5ab52f864_z.jpg?zz=1

http://subjunctive.net/klog/images/2011/mosque-liftoff.jpg

:D

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

^^ :rofl: that's hilirous sinjar ><

so thats what it is ...... :D

LOOOOOOL

glad you like it guys, same reaction I had when I saw it! Who said we can't have our own space program :D

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/55/167907166_e5ab52f864_z.jpg?zz=1

http://subjunctive.net/klog/images/2011/mosque-liftoff.jpg

:D

Hey, everyone! Glad you like the shoop - you can see my original photograph here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/illogicnet/167907166/

And Kenneth Lu's hilarious shoop (with another funny one, too) here: http://subjunctive.net/klog/2011/10/mos_eisley_mosque/

Love all the photos of Baghdad on this site, just wanted to credit where credit's due. :)

I never said I've made those myself lol. Not my intention to take the credits just to share it with others.

I have edited my post with the source.

Hahaha hilarious

Hey, everyone! Glad you like the shoop - you can see my original photograph here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/illogicnet/167907166/

And Kenneth Lu's hilarious shoop (with another funny one, too) here: http://subjunctive.net/klog/2011/10/mos_eisley_mosque/

Love all the photos of Baghdad on this site, just wanted to credit where credit's due. :)

Haha did you join this site just to mention that credit goes to you?

Since the first time the sight of this building met my eyes I've had a futuristic feeling about it.....such a unique design.....it's not a coincidense that that guy made this connection

funny btw

yeah it does look very extraterrestrial. beautiful building... hope they continue constructing it soon and hopefully it won't be a mosque ( we don't need mosques this big ).

the Guggenheim Baghdad! i suggested it before, it's perfect lol or the baghdad planetarium :P

............

Question: Do they sell condoms in Iraq? :D Are they available outside the KRG?

Obviously people use them but I mean do they sell they normally in packets in the shops or the market or whatever or do you have to find some guy who knows some guy who knows some guy who can hook you up with some and who secretly sells them/has a supply?

:D

Obviously people use them but I mean do they sell they normally in packets in the shops or the market or whatever or do you have to find some guy who knows some guy who knows some guy who can hook you up with some and who secretly sells them/has a supply?

:D

Do they sell "self respect'' in the place your currently at...? because you clearly lack it.

Do they sell "self respect'' in the place your currently at...? because you clearly lack it.

Yeah they do actually but it's slightly overpriced... and has too many side effects. :D


Anyway, can anyone mature answer my question... the above probably hid under a table when he read what I wrote.. fogaha he's living in Melbourne.

Chounz when marry they will tell you :D I don't know man but it's interesting :)

Yeah they do actually but it's slightly overpriced... and has too many side effects. :D


Anyway, can anyone mature answer my question... the above probably hid under a table when he read what I wrote.. fogaha he's living in Melbourne.

I'm sorry we aint all gawaweed like yourself, btw also about this question, I know this sounds ridiclous but them not having it in the Dukaan may indicate why every family has like 15 children in Iraq.

lol chounz yeah they definitely sell condoms in Iraq but I'm not sure how you can get them I think they sell them in pharmacies but I could be wrong.
and frombaghdad... the average number of children per family in Iraq is only 3-4. don't go around international forums spreading bullshit statistics it ruins the public image of your country. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Total_fertility_rate

I'm sorry we aint all gawaweed like yourself, btw also about this question, I know this sounds ridiclous but them not having it in the Dukaan may indicate why every family has like 15 children in Iraq.

Sudug ma 3endek akhla8 inta... 7turum nafsak shweyya. There was nothing wrong with what I asked... it's a interesting subject; and a normal question out of curiosity. Only close-minded idiots like you would take such offense to it, and as Ksharp said.. don't come up with your own shit, it just shows how clueless you are about your own country... you just keep on embarrassing yourself everytime you open your mouth, if I were you I would keep it shut.

Sudug ma 3endek akhla8 inta... 7turum nafsak shweyya. There was nothing wrong with what I asked... it's a interesting subject; and a normal question out of curiosity. Only close-minded idiots like you would take such offense to it, and as Ksharp said.. don't come up with your own shit, it just shows how clueless you are about your own country... you just keep on embarrassing yourself everytime you open your mouth, if I were you I would keep it shut.

Its called a generalization you idiot, they also have a rate of most women not getting married in the mid east, and Iraq has the highest rate their.

Do they sell "self respect'' in the place your currently at...? because you clearly lack it.

I'm sorry we aint all gawaweed like yourself, btw also about this question, I know this sounds ridiclous but them not having it in the Dukaan may indicate why every family has like 15 children in Iraq.

Its called a generalization you idiot, they also have a rate of most women not getting married in the mid east, and Iraq has the highest rate their.


How ironic, you call him an idiot yet you fail to make proper use of the word 'their'..so much for idiot.

I try not to get caught up in silly arguments, but it looks like you have a thing for fights.
What’s more ironic, is you ask for the price of self respect, yet you depict yourself to be from the streets (ibn el shaweri3)..calling them ‘gawaweed’, clearly self respect is something you can’t afford. Stop being so smug, and respect others.. seriously, where's Big D, he needs to give you suspension, and clear up all the crap you've caused, because you cannot make a respectable contribution, without offending others.

@Chounz

They sell condoms in Baghdad, its really normal, pharmacies, markets, etc.. all sell condoms..(from what I know at least)

How ironic, you call him an idiot yet you fail to make proper use of the word 'their'..so much for idiot.

I try not to get caught up in silly arguments, but it looks like you have a thing for fights.
What’s more ironic, is you ask for the price of self respect, yet you depict yourself to be from the streets (ibn el shaweri3)..calling them ‘gawaweed’, clearly self respect is something you can’t afford. Stop being so smug, and respect others.. seriously, where's Big D, he needs to give you suspension, and clear up all the crap you've caused, because you cannot make a respectable contribution, without offending others.

@Chounz

They sell condoms in Baghdad, its really normal, pharmacies, markets, etc.. all sell condoms..(from what I know at least)

Thanks Euphrates! .. tiftihim inta. :) That's exactly what I was thinking, sudug 7achi mal shawari3. Don't mean to offend his parents or anything like that bas imbayen tarbia moo halgad zeina chanet. 7aramat walla..

Thanks Euphrates! .. tiftihim inta. :) That's exactly what I was thinking, sudug 7achi mal shawari3. Don't mean to offend his parents or anything like that bas imbayen tarbia moo halgad zeina chanet. 7aramat walla..

OK bro lol, what ever makes u sleep the night.. lets just not wreck this thread and leave it all here :)

btw Chounz, كل عام وانت ابالف خير ... happy new year bro :) im just messing with u, lol u know im not serious ;)

Take a chill pill everybody

Umm I heard Basra is like 30% Sunni ?? Is that true? Not that it matters or anything :D but it's interesting cuz I thought they were like less than 10%..

^ actually according to official estimates 35% of Basra is sunni.

^ actually according to official estimates 35% of Basra is sunni.

Really..?! WOW. :sly:

Really..?! WOW. :sly:

اخواني , شنو الأشكال ان كان هناك 10 و 40 و 90 بالمية ... الأهم ان نحن كلنا تحت رايت العراق:)

اخواني , شنو الأشكال ان كان هناك 10 و 40 و 90 بالمية ... الأهم ان نحن كلنا تحت رايت العراق:)

Hahaha.. true yes no Ishkal I was just surprised :), it's quite interesting.

Hey do we have a thread for the new Baghdad parliament building, designed by Zaha hadid?

if we can find info about it.. yea we sure can btw, she's just one of few finalist, she hasn't been selected to design it.