Ybor City merchants say they're struggling

By BRADY DENNIS, Times Staff Writer
Published July 23, 2004

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Pat Shea of Hong Kong, walking by the Blue Shark with husband Jack, smiles at drummer Kevin McNary an hour before the street would close to traffic, much to bar owner George Wilds’ relief.

Is a change in traffic rules to blame, or do deeper problems exist?

YBOR CITY - On a recent weekday afternoon, several dozen Ybor City business owners poured into the Italian Club's ornate dance hall on Seventh Avenue.

They did not come to dance. They came to debate.

For years, the streets of Ybor had closed to cars at 9 p.m. on Fridays and Saturdays.

That changed to 11 p.m. in March, and many of the business owners weren't happy.

One after another, they stepped to the microphone and told a committee of the Ybor City Development Corp. that they were losing business, that the change was killing the spirit of a uniquely pedestrian place.

"If you take away the street closing (at 9), you take away the experience," said Randy Levin, owner of Elmer's Sports Cafe. "People come here for the Ybor experience."

Nightclub owners said the lines outside their doors have no place to go when there's traffic in the streets - that is, if any customers show up before 11 p.m. anymore.

Bar owners said fewer pedestrians mean fewer bodies in their bars.

A bakery owner, a flower shop owner, a deejay - they all said business has suffered.

And then Jay Miller, who helped develop Centro Ybor, stepped to the mike and shifted the discussion altogether.

"I don't think it's a matter of when the street closes," he said. "It's really the image. The district has changed. It's the product we're selling that we need to work on."

* * *
During the 1990s, Ybor City experienced a rebirth of sorts.

While artists complained about bars taking over and City Hall worried about public safety, entrepreneurs reveled in success.

The St. Petersburg Times described it this way in a September 1994 article:

The honeycomb-patterned sidewalks teem with a kaleidoscope of humanity - yuppies, Hare Krishnas, frat boys, tough chicks, tourists, punk rockers, glamor girls, bikers, street musicians and high school geeks.

On E Seventh Avenue, Ybor's main drag, an unending parade of sports cars, custom pickups and Harleys has slowed to a walk. Rollerbladers in bikini tops dart between cars, and pedestrians wander into the stop-and-go traffic from every direction.

Across the street, a line of 20-somethings dressed in black wraps around two sides of the cavernous techno-dance club known as the Masquerade ... Tampa Bay has no other place like Ybor City on a weekend night.

Crowds had grown so large that city officials grappled for solutions.

They passed an anticruising ordinance along Seventh Avenue, but the crowds kept swelling.

At its worst, city traffic engineers reported, the 10-block drive took 45 minutes.

In the fall of 1995, city leaders experimented with closing the strip to traffic at 9 each weekend night.

Police said the number of street fights dropped by a third and the cruising problem disappeared.

Then-Mayor Dick Greco praised the new "atmosphere." Despite a few gripes about barricades and parking, most business owners also voiced their support.

The experiment became tradition.

It stayed that way for nearly 10 years until March, when at the suggestion of the YCDC, Mayor Pam Iorio okayed a recommendation to move the street closing time to 11 p.m.

YCDC manager Vince Pardo said several things prompted the change.

Among them: fewer people showing up before 11 p.m. and the desire to experiment with valet parking along the street.

The new rule also allowed patrons to park later on Seventh Avenue.

"We're trying to find the closest thing to a consensus as possible," Pardo said. "We're trying to find that decision that adversely affects the least amount of people."

Judging by the recent meeting, no consensus exists.

More than 30 merchants signed a petition requesting the street closing return to 9 p.m. Although several speakers said they preferred the later closing time, most said just the opposite.

"The bottom line is, we're losing a lot of money," said Jimmy Brothers, general manager of the Amphitheater dance club. "It's affecting all of us."

Then came the deeper discussion raised by Miller and others: Why is Ybor City really suffering?

Patrick Manteiga, publisher of Tampa's La Gaceta newspaper, said it could be a variety of problems - the increase in parking fees, the economy, the perception of Ybor City as a high-crime area that caters mostly to teens.

Not to mention the stiff competition in recent years from Channelside, International Plaza and even BayWalk in St. Petersburg.

"Ybor City as a whole needs improving," Manteiga said. "Instead of this guesswork, we should spend the money to survey the people who come to Ybor City. We need to get down to the basics of trying to market Ybor City as a whole. We ought to really study the issue. We ought to use science."

Sara Romeo nodded in agreement.

She and her husband have owned businesses in Ybor for 15 years, including Studio 1515, a coffee shop that opened late last year.

She pointed to a proposed visioning study for the district and urged her fellow merchants to wait for the results - which might take until next year - before implementing more changes.

"Let's do this in an intelligent way," she said, "instead of off the cuff, by the seat of your pants."

Nevertheless, it appears the committee was persuaded by all the dissent.

On July 14, during an afternoon session at the YCDC office, committee members voted 7-4 to change the street closing back to 9 p.m.

Now the recommendation must work its way past the YCDC board and through city administration for approval.

In all likelihood, the strip soon will close earlier again on Fridays and Saturdays.

* * *
Until that happens, George Wilds will do what he always does.

He will stand outside the Blue Shark, a blues bar he has owned more than six years, and wave people in off Seventh Avenue.

On a recent Friday about 10 p.m., he waved at people walking past the front door, urging them inside.

He even waved at the drivers rolling slowly down the crowded street.

"I can't pull them out of their cars," Wilds said, shaking his head. "Right now, (business) is slower than it should be."

An hour later, to his relief, the barricades went up.

The cars vanished from Seventh Avenue.

The revelers formed long lines outside clubs and poured into the streets.

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Since 1995, Seventh Avenue had closed to vehicles at 9 p.m. Fridays and Saturdays. That changed to 11 p.m. in March, causing a stir.

For a tavern owner, it's the roving bands of teenagers. But his hope to entice more mature faces - and thicker wallets - faces challenges.

SHERRI DAY
Published July 23, 2004

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Desiree Banks, a promoter for several Ybor dance clubs, tries to lure patrons to Empire last week. Banks, who turned 19 today, admits that she spends no money in Ybor eating out or shopping, just a bit on clubbing.


YBOR CITY - In Brian Cornacchia's dreams, Thursday nights bustle at the Big City Tavern.

By 10 p.m., the bar is full. Dining room patrons finish their meals, while moviegoers sit down for aftertheater treats.

And then Cornacchia, who owns the place, wakes up.

On a recent Thursday night at Big City Tavern, there were only six patrons in the 240-seat restaurant shortly after 10 p.m. Cornacchia said teenagers, who spill onto Ybor City's streets from the district's dance clubs, are driving away his target audience.

"If you're an adult, young professional from 25 to 55 with disposable income, are you going to come down to an area that caters to teenagers?" Cornacchia said. "Of course you're not. There's unquestionably no doubt in my mind that I have lost business because of the teenagers on this block. It's the No. 1 complaint of my customers."

Hoping to reclaim the area for an older, more sophisticated clientele, Cornacchia has started a campaign to raise the entrance age of Ybor City's dance clubs and bars from 18 to 21. Cornacchia said a higher age requirement would help keep teens, who he estimates spend little money in restaurants and shops, off the streets.

A teen-free Ybor City, Cornacchia said, should make the area more attractive to adults who have been lured to Channelside, SoHo, International Plaza and BayWalk. But his proposed city ordinance faces stiff opposition from teens and club owners.

"The customer that I market to does not adversely affect the businesses that are attracting the kids," Cornacchia said. "On the contrary, the marketing strategies and the promotion by the teenage clubs are surely eroding my business. It's an unfair balance."

This is not the first time an age ordinance has been proposed. In 2002, the Tampa Alcohol Coalition, formerly the Alcohol Prevention Task Force, asked the City Council to restrict access to bars and clubs to people who are at least 21.

Ellen Snelling, the coalition's co-chairwoman, said the group was primarily concerned with curbing underage drinking. But efforts stalled as they waited to see how a challenge to similar ordinance would fare in Fort Lauderdale, which had raised its club entrance age from 18 to 21. Fort Myers, West Palm Beach and Miami have enacted similar ordinances.

Early last year, Mayor Pam Iorio, who has long considered teens a problem in Ybor, began meeting with other city officials to discuss the creation of an ordinance keeping teens out of clubs. But Iorio said last week the city decided not to move forward with an ordinance because of complications with enforcement, liquor licensing and zoning regulations.

Still the mayor said that Cornacchia need not be discouraged.

"Nothing is ever a dead issue," Iorio said. "I'm saying right now we've hit a wall with it. But if there is strong support for it and the Ybor community would like to see it done, we can continue to explore ways in which we could achieve it."

For now, Cornacchia is trying to rally other restaurateurs, small-business owners and residents in Ybor City. He plans to circulate a petition and create a Web site detailing his proposal. He has won support from owners of Samurai Blue, Bernini's and retail shops, and managers of neighboring apartment complexes, he said.

John Schall, who owns Dish, the restaurant, said he would favor raising the clubs' entrance age if that attracted older patrons to the area. But he stopped short of discouraging teens in Ybor.

"It's not about not wanting the 18- to 20-year-olds here," Schall said. "It's about wanting the 25- to 75-year-olds here as well. And in order to get to the 25- to 75-year-olds as well, you have to work hard at changing the false perception of Ybor as only a place for teenagers, because it's not true."

Carmine Iavarone, who owns Carmine's, is not sure changing the rules would serve him well. Business at his restaurant has not declined with the influx of teens, he said.

"You know we have these problems, but overall they're problems because we're in a good area and there's people here," Iavarone said. "That's why it concerns me when someone says let's change a rule that's been around for a long time."

Ybor's club owners largely oppose any change to the age requirement. While clubs profit from selling alcohol to patrons who are at least 21, they also make money by charging admission fees. An ordinance that bars 18- to 20-year-olds could be devastating, club owners said.

"It'll put several businesses out of business, and it'll force the other businesses to operate unscrupulously," said John Santoro, 34, who owns two Ybor City clubs, the Amphitheater and Club Hedo. "People like us with good operating procedures will suffer in the long run."

Santoro said he fears that if the City Council boosts the age for clubs in Ybor City, teens will flock to unsupervised parties and be susceptible to underage drinking and drug use.

Several teens waiting to get into clubs on a recent Thursday night scoffed at the suggestion that their presence could hurt business owners' profits. They also vociferously opposed any change to the clubs' admissions policies.

Rosie Odom, a Temple Terrace 18-year-old bound for club Fuel, worried that she would have few places to party if Ybor was removed from her dance card.

But Desiree Banks, a 19-year-old party promoter for several Ybor dance clubs, said she could see both sides of the issue.

Other than clubs, she said she spends little money in Ybor.

"I've never come down here to eat dinner," she said, pausing between pitches to passers-by at the Empire dance club. "I hear they even have shopping."

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You can bump and grind at the Amphitheater if you’re 18 or older. Owner John Santoro wants to keep it that way. Cover charges are a cash cow for dance clubs, apart from the alcohol sales to those over 21.

Ybor is clearly for the younger (18-24), rowdier crowds. Any business looking to locate there should be aimed at catering to that age cohort. Why would you locate your business there if you're aiming for the 25 and up professional? Instead of trying to change Ybor, they should just sell and move to DT or Hyde Park. Having two or three districts with separate identities is what makes the city great.

I see two problems with NOT diversifing the crowd.

First 18 year olds don't have much money to spend, so that doesn't help the business much.

Second, about 20000 people show up to Ybor on Friday and sat. If all 20K are 18 to 25 years old, there is a better chance that there will be problems. Believe it or not I was 18 once. Ybor would have been nothing but trouble for me at that age.

I definately don't think they should eliminate the 18 to 21 yr old crowd, but they need to attract young professionals and the older crowd as well.

Police Arrest 7 Teens In Ybor, Blame Club

By SHANNON BEHNKEN sbehnken@tampatrib.com
Published: Jul 26, 2004




TAMPA - The police arrive near midnight, armed with pepper spray and the certain knowledge they will have to use it before the night is through.
The two dozen officers line up on Ybor City's Seventh Avenue party strip, surrounded by a growing crowd of young revelers.

They are excited, but calm, as patrons of Club Bling - some as young as 7 - file out of the new hip-hop club and begin to mingle with the older teens in the street.

"Get ready,'' one officer tells a bystander. ``Things will change soon.''

Within minutes, a fight breaks out on the corner of Seventh Avenue and 19th Street. About a hundred youths, yelling, "Fight, fight,'' run toward the melee and the officers, two on horseback, follow.

After a spurt of pepper spray, the crowd scatters, hands clamped over burning eyes.

Welcome to Ybor City on a Saturday night. At least, it's the Ybor City police say they have come to expect since the opening of Club Bling two months ago.

Teenagers have always come to Ybor, said police Maj. George McNamara. But there are more now and they are rowdier and younger.

He places the blame squarely on Club Bling and its youthful patrons.

"We cannot afford to have this continue in the way it is going,'' McNamara said Sunday. ``There are major issues that have to be addressed - and soon.''


Bad for Business

Saturday nights are usually the busiest for the Las Vegas Tattoo Co. But this weekend, owner Doc Baker locked his door at 1 a.m.

He and five employees sat outside at tables watching the commotion.

As the night wore on, the crowd stretched three blocks wide. Fights broke out every 30 minutes or so and continued until police again unleashed the pepper spray.

At one point, the crowd turned on a Tampa Tribune photographer, hitting him on the back of the head, causing him to fall against a garbage can.

The mayhem continued until after 3 a.m. Police arrested seven teenagers. Some were charged with robbing and assaulting adult patrons.

"If you're an average customer coming down to Ybor City, are you going to want to walk into this?'' Baker asked. ``This is killing our business.''

Nearby, bar owner Sharon Smith stood on her roof, capturing the fighting on video tape.

"The only thing saving us is the mounted police patrol,'' she said. ``I had to close and lock my doors four times last Saturday night because the fights were heading in our direction.''

"It's not the kids fault, though,'' Smith added. ``They shouldn't be put in a position where the only thing they have to do is to come out into an adult world.''

Costa Daez, owner of Acropolis Greek Taverna, said Ybor's youthful rowdiness existed long before Club Bling arrived.

"The club did not bring all of these kids here,'' he said. ``They were here anyway.''

Things have been rowdier lately, but Daez blames the city for not having stricter rules. The teen club might not be a bad idea, he said, but ``the kids should be with their parents or be arrested.''


Out of Control

McNamara presented the issue to the Tampa City Council last Thursday. Council members expressed shock and dismay that the young clubbers might be changing the atmosphere of Ybor City and deterring adults from coming to the entertainment district.

But since the club is not breaking any laws, the police have little recourse, McNamara said.

Club Bling sells soda, water and candy. And police say they aren't aware of any underage drinking.

Club Bling owner Richard Boby has said he is offering teens a safe haven and is being blamed for things out of his control.

Most of the youth starting trouble are never inside his club, he said.

Boby, a youth baseball coach who owns Sky High Records, said last week the club is open to 13- to 18-year-olds, and anyone ``who looks young'' or creates a problem is asked to leave.

He said he opened the club to give his 16-year-old son and the teen's peers a safe place to hang out. He holds open microphone talent shows and hopes to find youngsters to promote.

But there are those who believe Ybor is no place for teenagers.

When Charlotte Mathis let her granddaughter attend a birthday party at Club Bling, she said she had no idea what Seventh Avenue was like.

Her 14-year-old granddaughter, Courtney Allen, had said the party was between 2 p.m. and 6 p.m. When she wasn't home by 11 p.m., Mathis came looking for her.

``This is my first time in Ybor City at night,'' Mathis said Saturday. ``This is Courtney's last trip to Ybor. This place is for adults, not children.''

.

``This is freaking me out bad,'' she said. ``Where are the parents at?''


_____________________________________________________________________________________



How in the hell is it even legal to run such an establishment? Who in the hell thinks it's good for kids to be in a nightclub atmosphere at 13yrs old????

This here is some serious bullshit, and is exactly the kind of thing that is hurting Ybor.

I don't think that they need to gentrify Ybor so that only monied middle-aged people are the ones going there, but I fully support a law which makes it so that places must be 21 and up. Hell, I even supported that idea when I was only 21-25, when I went to Ybor alot, because it was ALWAYS the highschool types fouling things up, and who didn't know how to handle themselves.

Exactly. It is in transition, but adding a kiddie club is not exactly good policy. THose places never last simply because the kids who go there tend to be the kind that don't know how to behave and they get closed down.

Just like Clubs DNA and Ozone up off Nebraska several years ago.

Anything on Nebraska is gonna be trouble.

Teen clubs should not be in existence, IMO. Middle and high school students don't need to be exposed to the club atmosphere. Clubs are for adults, period.

However, I don't see the point in banning 18 to 20-year-olds. We're talking college students or college-aged young adults. If they're not partying in the club, they're at the frat house or some other person's apartment/house without any kind of security or supervision.

Ybor is just not the place for "sophisticated" night life, IMO -- at least not in the heart of it on 7th Ave. If you go to the French Quarter, Bourbon Street is mostly bars and clubs. It's very rowdy. However on the streets around Bourbon, there are more sophisticated clubs and restaurants. If diversification is what Ybor wants, then maybe it should follow that model.

Hello fellow Tampa folk. I am new to this forum and I'm glad to make my first post...

Hahahahah!! Personally I think YBOR is just a dumpy place with clubs that stream out extremely lame trendy music, a bunch of drugs and alcohol, and a haven for people who just wanto find some sexual action. Ybor to me has no class whatsoever and personally agree with the notion that some classier material should be placed within the vicinity of the area.

Perhaps having an improved crowd of people around theses dumb young animals (I'm young too) would improve the scene, but whatever. I don't know what else to say, maybe I'll start my own club someday that would have some true character and style. For now I'll start taking more pictures of our skyline of buildings filled with random 1970's office equiptment and about 20 people per building.

Hello fellow Tampa folk. I am new to this forum and I'm glad to make my first post...

Hahahahah!! Personally I think YBOR is just a dumpy place with clubs that stream out extremely lame trendy music, a bunch of drugs and alcohol, and a haven for people who just wanto find some sexual action. Ybor to me has no class whatsoever and personally agree with the notion that some classier material should be placed within the vicinity of the area.

Perhaps having an improved crowd of people around theses dumb young animals (I'm young too) would improve the scene, but whatever. I don't know what else to say, maybe I'll start my own club someday that would have some true character and style. For now I'll start taking more pictures of our skyline of buildings filled with random 1970's office equiptment and about 20 people per building.
HeHeHe!! :) , NO COMMENT :cheers:

Nothing is wrong with Ybor. Boy, I hate it when there is a bar district in town. . .

So you don't want to go there, don't go there. Thre are other things to do. Your perspective is screwed because you are young, you have no idea how good you have it. . .

Hello fellow Tampa folk. I am new to this forum and I'm glad to make my first post...

Hahahahah!! Personally I think YBOR is just a dumpy place with clubs that stream out extremely lame trendy music, a bunch of drugs and alcohol, and a haven for people who just wanto find some sexual action. Ybor to me has no class whatsoever and personally agree with the notion that some classier material should be placed within the vicinity of the area.

Perhaps having an improved crowd of people around theses dumb young animals (I'm young too) would improve the scene, but whatever. I don't know what else to say, maybe I'll start my own club someday that would have some true character and style. For now I'll start taking more pictures of our skyline of buildings filled with random 1970's office equiptment and about 20 people per building.

Perhaps you should learn more about the history of Ybor City and maybe you will appreciate it better.


maybe not..

I am young too...kindda, and I think Ybor is great. In fact, I am moving there as soon as construction is finished on my loft. You talk about how Ybor has no "class". If a classy urban neighborhood looks like Hyde Park or Channelside (in its current incarnation) or Harbor Island, then I want to live in the most unclassy of urban neighborhoods. Those places lack the atmosphere, history, diversity, shopping and dining, and entertainment options that Ybor has past 11pm! So what if there are young rowdy people there? It makes for great people watching.

In fact, I am moving there as soon as construction is finished on my loft.


What lofts are those. I too am moving to Ybor. I bought one of the Las Casitas at 19th st and 5th ave. I am moving from an awesome condo on harbour Island on the water, overlooking downtown. It is going to be a step down, but I have only lived here two years and will be able to sell this and pay cash for the house in Ybor. I have also bought a store front on 20th st, just south of 7th.

I have lived in Hyde Park also. Hyde Park is great, but its a little too suburban for me. The north end of Harbour Island is also great, but very pricey. The damn Maintenance fee alone is $500 a month, plus the people leave a little to be desired in both places as well, (a bit snoby.)

I personally think Ybor is going to be great in a few years. It will be urban , but not as sterile as I think Channelside will become. The biggest plus is I don't think the Yuppies would ever lower themselves to live in Ybor, which is the biggest plus.

By the way, I am NOT young. I am 37, my wife is 35, and I love Ybor!!

It sounds like you are making a really good investment.

What lofts are those. I too am moving to Ybor

Ybor Village Lofts. You are going to be my neighbor! Although the waterview is nice don't you think it will be great to walk to coffeeshops, movie theater, restaurants, and when the occasion arises, watering holes??

Plus, you guys will be able to pick up a nice, drunk USF hottie, take her back to your place for some dogging out, and dump her in a cab before sunrise!!!

If that isn't the American Dream of all 20-something men, then I don't know what is... :lol:

If that isn't the American Dream of all 20-something men, then I don't know what is... :lol:

Yeah, I think many of my future neighbors will be straight men in their 20s. Then again maybe not.

Plus, you guys will be able to pick up a nice, drunk USF hottie, take her back to your place for some dogging out, and dump her in a cab before sunrise!!!

If that isn't the American Dream of all 20-something men, then I don't know what is... :lol:

Believe me, I would love to pick up Hot, Young, Drunk ASS,

but my wife won't let me. :cry:

The key is to get your wife into threesomes and the bi thing. I suggest renting some threesome and lesbo porn as a key stepping stone. It's worked for me in the past.

I think my wife is Too conservative. I have tried to get her to watch regular porn, But she refuses.

I'm only kidding anyway. I have an awesome wife that I wouldn't trade for the world.

I still Really enjoy looking at beautiful women though!!!

Nothing is wrong with Ybor. Boy, I hate it when there is a bar district in town. . .

So you don't want to go there, don't go there. Thre are other things to do. Your perspective is screwed because you are young, you have no idea how good you have it. . .

NOT IN TAMPA. Tampa nightlife is awful... and does not cater to the higher class... thats why all the higher class people are moving to Miami.

The clubs arent making money because the clubs in Ybor suck... They are small.. smokey... grimey.. and they all play the same music (Hip-Hop or Breakbeats).

In order for a club to attract an older more high class patrons... they have to cater to these types... and thats exactly what they are NOT doing down there. Its the clubs fault.

Why goto a movie all the way down in Ybor, when you can goto the several other theaters around town?

Restaurants.... not many good restaurants in Ybor. I do enjoy Samri Blue (sp?), but thats it.

The shopping down there is awful.. with the exception of Ocean Drive clothing store.

Its just NOT a fun place for people over 25 to party at.. not to mention... if you are driving out and decide to take a cab home (because you might have had a few too many drinks).. then you can bet that when you goto pick up your car the next day... something will be wrong with it (hit, broken into, puked on, or stolen).

Ybor City is just stupid in my opinion... Its very unsafe. Hopefully a few other entertainment districts will open up around town to cater to the higher class people.

For those that do love Ybor.. then I would suggest traveling up to Atlanta, Miami, Orlando, NY, Vegas, Chicago, and other cool nightlife cities... to actually see what a nightlife scene is supposed to be like.

I think my wife is Too conservative. I have tried to get her to watch regular porn, But she refuses.

I'm only kidding anyway. I have an awesome wife that I wouldn't trade for the world.

I still Really enjoy looking at beautiful women though!!!

That's good, because I was kidding too...;)

NOT IN TAMPA. Tampa nightlife is awful... and does not cater to the higher class... thats why all the higher class people are moving to Miami.

The clubs arent making money because the clubs in Ybor suck... They are small.. smokey... grimey.. and they all play the same music (Hip-Hop or Breakbeats).

In order for a club to attract an older more high class patrons... they have to cater to these types... and thats exactly what they are NOT doing down there. Its the clubs fault.

Why goto a movie all the way down in Ybor, when you can goto the several other theaters around town?

Restaurants.... not many good restaurants in Ybor. I do enjoy Samri Blue (sp?), but thats it.

The shopping down there is awful.. with the exception of Ocean Drive clothing store.

Its just NOT a fun place for people over 25 to party at.. not to mention... if you are driving out and decide to take a cab home (because you might have had a few too many drinks).. then you can bet that when you goto pick up your car the next day... something will be wrong with it (hit, broken into, puked on, or stolen).

Ybor City is just stupid in my opinion... Its very unsafe. Hopefully a few other entertainment districts will open up around town to cater to the higher class people.

For those that do love Ybor.. then I would suggest traveling up to Atlanta, Miami, Orlando, NY, Vegas, Chicago, and other cool nightlife cities... to actually see what a nightlife scene is supposed to be like.

Why must everything the city do have to cater to 'rich' people? Like 5% of the population is 'rich', meaning that the other 95% need things to do too.

All the effort to make Ybor 'safe' for 'rich' people has done is almost totally kill off business there. The crowds are about 1/3 what they used to be, and businesses there are increasingly unstable because of it.

And 'old' people? WTF? These are the losers busy sitting at home watching Survivor and American Idol, or eating at Applebees... They aren't driving 10-30 miles to Ybor no matter what.

'No good restaurants in Ybor'... Uhh, Ove Cafe, Bernini and the Columbia are three of my local favs. There are several others that are certainly better than the typical Bennigans or Chilis proliferating everywhere else in the city.


Your entire post is basically full of shit, but hey, what else would we expect from a Miami snob trolling a Tampa thread?

True Jasonhouse....by the way, I was told that the people who designed and developed the inner Harbor in Baltimore have been contracted by the city of Tampa to help develope Ybor into a first class entertainment district. If that is true, then we won't have to listen to these morons anymore.

Pacific Sunwear (PacSun) was shut down from Centro Ybor? :?

I checked Centro Ybor website and there is no Pacific Sunwear on shopping center list.

So did American Eagle. Makes no sense why they would put those stores in there to begin with. They are in every suburban mall in Tampa. Urban Outfitters on the other hand, is sucessful.

Alittle too sucessful with the trendy hipster posers.

The entire rant by "rhaney" is silly, but he is entitled to his silly opnion. . .and leave your car in Miami overnight . . .

I found news... :(

Centro Ybor Trying To Refocus Concept

TAMPA - Things haven't gone according to plan for Centro Ybor, the $45 million entertainment complex that was supposed to attract 2 million people a year to Ybor City. It hasn't, and no one can say if or when it will.
But some visionary entrepreneurs are trying to inject Cuban and international flair into Centro Ybor and enliven the plaza.

Partners Ivan Castillo and Lazaro Rodriguez are opening a cigar bar called Havana Dreams in a space that is front and center at Centro Ybor. Old-school cigar rollers will do demonstrations for tourists. Meanwhile, in the rear of the plaza, Kenny and Jacqueline Conley's eclectic International Bazaar gift shop has become a mecca for adventurous types. Their belly dancing and African drum lessons are drawing some 280 people a week, Jacqueline Conley estimates, and the couple plan to add a stage and bigger dance floor.

The mall's management welcomes the young entrepreneurs' ambition because it may help Centro Ybor stand out from Channelside, WestShore Plaza, International Plaza and other shopping centers. Nonetheless, some Centro Ybor tenants say Ybor City still needs to clean up its image as a wild and sometimes dangerous place to visit before the center will really shine. Its image wasn't helped when a concertgoer at the Masquerade nightclub in Ybor City stabbed four people in June. One of the victims died.

Aside from a bronze statue of Vicente Ybor at the front and a cigar museum tucked away in the rear, the bulk of Centro Ybor is filled with the likes of Urban Outfitters, GameWorks and Starbucks - fine businesses but hardly oozing local culture.

``We're in Ybor City, and we really don't have much of a Latin culture here yet,'' said Castillo, a 37-year-old Panamanian emigre.

So, he and Rodriguez plan to open on Aug. 19 a Cuban cigar bar at the front of the complex, in a space formerly occupied by GBX Shoes. It is the partners' second Ybor City location. Their first Havana Dreams cigar store and factory opened last August a couple of blocks east of Centro Ybor on Seventh Avenue. They plan to keep both locations.

The store in Centro Ybor will have some outdoor seating to people-watch on Seventh Avenue and serve lime juice and rum mojito cocktails. On some nights, cigar rollers may roll tobacco leaves for tourists outside. Havana Dreams will be just a stone's throw from another Seventh Avenue cigar bar, King Corona.

If Havana Dreams is bringing a splash of Cuban culture to Centro Ybor, the Conleys are trying to turn it into the United Nations. They opened their International Bazaar gift shop, located on Eighth Avenue next to GameWorks, about 2 1/2 years ago with items from five or six countries. Today, it has merchandise from 104 countries, ranging from elegant Chinese figurines to gruesome Brazilian masks to ward off evil spirits.

The Conleys - Jacqueline is 36; Kenny is 33 - are from ethnic melting pot Toronto, and although they say they love Tampa, one of their frustrations is the lack of diverse arts and music here. Indeed, the Conleys are a multicultural mix themselves. He is fair- skinned and white but is often seen in an African dashiki, a loose-fitting shirt. She is of West Indian descent, with other roots in the United Kingdom and Canada.

In the rear of the gift shop, they have set up a small wooden dance floor and have invited instructors to give public lessons in, among other things, flamenco dancing, African drums and Australian didgeridoo, a wooden tube that makes a spooky droning sound. On Thursday, about a dozen bare-midriffed young women were learning belly dancing.

Now, the Conleys hope to turn the back half of their store into a nonprofit center for international arts and music. Plans are to turn much of the back half of their 16,000- square-foot space into a dance floor and stage.

Centro Ybor's general manager, Irene Pierpont, acknowledges that this isn't the stuff of typical shopping centers. However, in Centro Ybor's five years of existence its management has learned that it cannot compete with WestShore Plaza and International Plaza with standard mall tenants. The mall was developed by Columbus, Ohio-based Steiner & Associates, Sembler Co. of St. Petersburg and German investors and opened in the fall of 2000.

Over the years, American Eagle Outfitters, Pacific Sunwear and GBX Shoes have come and gone from Centro Ybor. The center still has some traditional corporate tenants, including Starbucks, Victoria's Secret and Claire's, but is trying to lure more eclectic stores and restaurants. For example, it has the area's only Urban Outfitters, Pierpont said.

Pierpont, who wasn't with Centro Ybor five years ago, suggested the developers originally may have thought they needed big corporate stores to make the center work. Whether it can succeed with more independent retailers, who lack the money of big corporations, and chains with only a single Tampa Bay area store is an open question.

Already, some tenants have balked at the rent Centro Ybor has charged, Jay Miller, a former executive of Steiner & Associates, told the Tribune last year. Pierpont declined to discuss rent.

Ultimately, Centro Ybor's future depends on the city cleaning up Ybor City's wild reputation, said Brian Cornacchia, the owner of Big City Tavern in Centro Ybor. Still, more diverse tenants, such as Havana Dreams and International Bazaar will help, he said.

``If the issues of Seventh Avenue were addressed and the stigma of Ybor were released, Centro Ybor would flourish,'' Cornacchia said.

For now, Tampa is on the hook for about $760,000 a year in loan payments for Centro Ybor. Before the center opened, the city agreed to guarantee a $9 million loan that the developers obtained to build the complex. Last year, the developers said they could not make their loan payments and asked the city to honor its guarantee. Including interest, the loan payments could cost the city $16 million through 2018.

Source: http://tampatrib.com/Business/MGBAVTMK5CE.html

So did American Eagle. Makes no sense why they would put those stores in there to begin with. They are in every suburban mall in Tampa. Urban Outfitters on the other hand, is sucessful.

Alittle too sucessful with the trendy hipster posers.

American Eagle is most sucessful in Hollywood area. :) I'm suprised that it's went shut down in Centro Ybor. :ohno:

The Shops at Sunset Place in Miami is very great shopping center so what's compare with Centro Ybor?

Urban Outfitters is either moving or opening another store at International....last news bit about it said it was a done deal

Urban Outfitters is either moving or opening another store at International....last news bit about it said it was a done deal

Wow... No wondering if Centro Ybor going decline. :(

I don't think Ybor will ever or should ever try to become a shopping center. Its just not going to work with several huge malls in the Bay area, and plazas on every corner.

I used to love going to Ybor and always took out my out-of-town guests there. But just having the little thugs there is quite a turn-off. Isn't there a curfew law out there thats enforced? I don't mind the 18 to 21, but the 13 thru 17's gotta go. No buts.

So, where do young professionals hang out nowadays? You will see them in Channelside, International Plaza and Hyde Park area. Much better ambience and entertainment. Ybor can be saved by just improving public relations and marketing.

"NOT IN TAMPA. Tampa nightlife is awful... and does not cater to the higher class... thats why all the higher class people are moving to Miami."

This is hilarious. I didn't realize that "higher class people" base their decisions regarding where to live on nightlife.

Oh well, I'm just an old thirty-something that puts most of my money in IRAs, 401Ks, stocks and real estate instead of cover charges and drink specials, so what do I know?

I don't understand why Ybor must be expected to conform to the same ideal as Channelside or Hyde park or Intl Plaza? Becoming 'yuppified' and/or culturally homogenized is NOT a desirable occurence IMO.

One thing I can gaurantee is that the day Ybor becomes just like those other places is the day I don't bother going to Ybor any more. The fact that it is edgier, diverse, and 'authentic' is precisely why I drive farther to go there.

For those that do love Ybor.. then I would suggest traveling up to Atlanta, Miami, Orlando, NY, Vegas, Chicago, and other cool nightlife cities... to actually see what a nightlife scene is supposed to be like.

Oh, is there some National Association of Nightlife Districts that I didn't know about? Are there regulations on the kinds of clubs and bars that are allowed to be considered a part of a city's "nightlife"? Are there restrictions on what type of people are allowed to frequent these establishments? If so, this is all news to me.

Ybor City may not be everyone's ideal bar district. But remember Tampa is not a big city like Chicago. Compared to the cities you listed, Tampa is a smaller, blue-collar type of city. It doesn't attract the same type of people Manhattan does, and Ybor and its patrons reflect this. Also, keep in mind that all of Tampa is not like Ybor. There are other areas that cater to a different clientèle. If you don't like Ybor City, don't go there. If you don't like Tampa, don't live here.

Police Hope 7th Ave. Traffic Makes Ybor Safer
By ELLEN GEDALIUS egedalius@tampatrib.com
Published: Aug 17, 2005

TAMPA - Police and city officials hope reopening Seventh Avenue in Ybor City to traffic creates a calmer atmosphere along the entertainment strip.
Seventh Avenue between 15th and 21st streets will open to traffic Sept. 30. The stretch had been closed to traffic from 11 p.m. to 4 a.m., and Ybor City has had the highest crime rate in the city during 11 p.m. and 3 a.m., police spokeswoman Laura McElroy said.

``Ybor City needs to be known as a safe, fun, family place, whether it's daytime or nighttime,`` Police Maj. George McNamara said.

http://news.tbo.com/news/MGB8O6GWHCE.html

^That's about the dumbest "solution" I've ever heard of... cars driven by drunks and stressed out people (because of cruising) + drunk people crowded onto the narrow sidewalks and crossing the streets = SAFER??????

:sleepy:

Actually it is a lot harder to have a quazi-gang fight when you have to dodge the cars . . .

^or, alot easier to create quasi-gang fights because of dodging cars.

Hmmmm, I wonder if a strong police presence would help deter some of the crime in Ybor...

hjack

^It already has by a large amount, which is why this continued push for "reducing crime" is baffling IMO. Reducing crime and sanitising a district of its energy are two different strata of reality. The city had better watch what is wishes for, because at this point, they are KILLING Ybor, not making it better.

Police Hope 7th Ave. Traffic Makes Ybor Safer
By ELLEN GEDALIUS egedalius@tampatrib.com
Published: Aug 17, 2005

TAMPA - Police and city officials hope reopening Seventh Avenue in Ybor City to traffic creates a calmer atmosphere along the entertainment strip.
Seventh Avenue between 15th and 21st streets will open to traffic Sept. 30. The stretch had been closed to traffic from 11 p.m. to 4 a.m., and Ybor City has had the highest crime rate in the city during 11 p.m. and 3 a.m., police spokeswoman Laura McElroy said.

``Ybor City needs to be known as a safe, fun, family place, whether it's daytime or nighttime,`` Police Maj. George McNamara said.

http://news.tbo.com/news/MGB8O6GWHCE.html

A fun, family place, what's he smoking?