http://www.baynews9.com/video?clip=http://static.baynews9.com/newsvideo/bn9/web_video/TGH_rehab_project_0831.flv
It would be on the old Ferman lot. I like it imo and would start filling gaps on Kennedy.

http://www.baynews9.com/static/articles/images/2010/TGH-project-08310000_rdax_300x228.jpg

Well - it is multi story. That is good. It does not face the street. THat sucks. There is a relatively big parking area in the front. That sucks.

^^
Could be worse. :P

Is it really that f**king hard to put the stupid parking lot in the back? If we want to switch the perception of importance from vehicles to pedestrians this is not gonna do it at all.

What's in the render I can't really complain about. I guess it would be nicer to have the building in the middle of the project moved to Kennedy Blvd. to have all the buildings facing the street, but the whole thing is a major project on a road that hasn't seen much development at all. And most of that parking I would believe to be necessary for many of the rehab patients and elderly patients.

I don't know the former Ferman site though, it isn't the one just east of the Neighborhood Wal-Mart is it?

And most of that parking I would believe to be necessary for many of the rehab patients and elderly patients.

O.K. so lets say in 20 years when we have lightrail down Kennedy... How is having the building set back from the street going to help the elderly then?
And lets be honest do we really want eldery people driving in the first place!?!?! Its not like they can't move said units to be closer to the parking lots in the back.

Yes the design is o.k. and the plan is great, but we want Tampa's cityscape to actually look like a city. This project looks like it could be located in the middle of the suburbs, not on the most important east west corridor just outside the urban core.

O.K. so lets say in 20 years when we have lightrail down Kennedy... How is having the building set back from the street going to help the elderly then?
And lets be honest do we really want eldery people driving in the first place!?!?!

Yes the design is o.k. and the plan is great, but we want Tampa's cityscape to actually look like a city. This project looks like it could be located in the middle of the suburbs, not on the most important east west corridor just outside the urban core.
I agree and I've just sent a letter to the Urban Development Council about keeping the hospital to the zoning guidelines. And remember about the "Gateway to Downtown" a couple years back, what's planned wouldn't look good when the city is trying to make Kennedy the Gateway. I just thought that what the plans were right now was because of the patients that would be using this expansion.

Just think... 'Hometown Democracy' would kill this project before it was ever even proposed.


And I'll ask the same thing I asked before of USF's DT project... Why can't the medical space USF needs be carved out of one of these buildings? Why can't USF lease or buy an acre of this campus and build their facility there, and not trash a great block for DT redevelopment along Franklin St?

In the video she said there would be some street side storefronts on the west bldg. Some one was being served some kind of food in one of the renderings.

And remember about the "Gateway to Downtown" a couple years back,.

Its funny tho cos that "Gateway to Downtown" sign is on that property

Its not really parking in the front, those look like patient/visitor drop-offs. There isn't enough room for parking and traffic movement, so those are just drop-offs with the parking in the back in the garage. The size of the roundabouts is dictated by the turning radius of firetrucks, so its really the fire marshall's office driving the size of those. I hope they leave enough area for trees to actually get to the size shown on the rendering though. Usually they get compromised by additional paved walkways and such. Certainly better than a car lot in that location though.

^^I'm thinking the same thing, the parking seems to be in the back and I might be wrong but is that not a parking structure in the rear??

The problem is that the whole project is a funnel to the empty middle rather than addressing the street. You can build a drop off without having a gaping hole that no one will want to walk past. Here's an idea - put the first building on the street facing the street and plan the other two buildings as additional wings to go away from the street. Put the garage in the back . . . It's really not that hard if you have any intention to address the street at all.

Oh, hometown democracy will be a complete mess. . . the NIMBY Manifesto

The problem is that the whole project is a funnel to the empty middle rather than addressing the street. You can build a drop off without having a gaping hole that no one will want to walk past. Here's an idea - put the first building on the street facing the street and plan the other two buildings as additional wings to go away from the street. Put the garage in the back . . . It's really not that hard if you have any intention to address the street at all.

http://southtampa2.tbo.com/content/2010/aug/25/st-hospital-planners-at-odds/

Deana Nelson, the hospital's chief operating officer, said the "fragile" conditions of patients who will stay at the hospital mandate a quiet, peaceful environment away from the noise of a busy traffic corridor.

"It's better for patient privacy," she said. "We don't want people close to the street to be able to see them, especially at night when lights would be on."

Well clearly the architect is retarded, they could easily mitigate that, and there's nothing you can do about the sound issue, but I'm sure other senior hospitals in other major cities have figured out ways by not creating a giant gaping hole in the project in the middle of an urban block. Not only is this a retarded architect, they clearly didn't do any research or site analysis.

"The city's land-use staff said hospital officials had refused to budge on a design that violates guidelines governing new construction and major renovations on Kennedy, a major corridor linking downtown and the West Shore business district.

The guidelines encourage wide sidewalks, decorative streetlights and pavers, and attractive buildings that front the boulevard. Parking should be provided along the side or rear of buildings."

And good for our council members, if anyone's going to be at fault for the death of this project its the TGH people for not conforming to guidelines.

"A central feature is a 2.5-acre parking lot," said Michael Callahan, the city's urban design coordinator. "This is not good urban design. The placing and massing of the buildings are crazy."

This amazes me... When did we start having urban designers who gave a shit!?

Deana Nelson, the hospital's chief operating officer, said the "fragile" conditions of patients who will stay at the hospital mandate a quiet, peaceful environment away from the noise of a busy traffic corridor.

"It's better for patient privacy," she said. "We don't want people close to the street to be able to see them, especially at night when lights would be on."

THen don't build it there.

Really, look at that rendering and her comment is completely idiotic. Put the rooms on the higher floor. Use decent soundproofing . . . etc

I wonder if the helicopters at TGH flying right by the rooms make any noise . . .

I know this is off topic, but what on earth is this "Hometown Democracy" all about? Why does it make such a big deal with this upcoming election? Please send me a P.M. and explain it to me. I'm totally clueless...

I wouldn't be overly worried about the gap between the east and west buildings. If you break it down its 20' close to the building, 3' planting, 24', than another 10' planting bed. That's 57' per side, the central entry being probably 32-33', for a total gap at 147'. I've done custom houses that wide and its not a ton of space, especially when its bookended by with 10+ story buildings. The high perspective angle isn't helping see it, but its a lot more dense than just about anything else around there.

THen don't build it there.

Really, look at that rendering and her comment is completely idiotic. Put the rooms on the higher floor. Use decent soundproofing . . . etc

I wonder if the helicopters at TGH flying right by the rooms make any noise . . .

Exactly what I was thinking almost word for word...


And btw, I do not support this plan as proposed. The density is great for the Kennedy corridor, and the neighborhood could sure use the redevelopment and jobs... But this project's design SUCKS so bad it doesn't even meet Tampa's urban design regulations... NO WAY should this project be approved as is. Imo, anyone who votes for this project as proposed is revealing themselves to either be incompetent or corrupt.

Exactly what I was thinking almost word for word...


I pretended like I didn't hear it... It was much too absurd a comment for me to even give it acknowledgment. I mean how dumb are these people.
300 foot set back is no good any way you slice it. D to me that gap looks more than 200 ft wide. The lot is about 600 ft across and those side buildings are not equal with the middle lot, if they were equal it would be exactly or less than 200 ft

Now that I'm looking at it too there is a square created by the two boundary edges of the side buildings, remember that the building set back is 300ft. so to my eye the width is somewhere around 300ft.

I guessed sensible minimums, as the rendering is at a less than useful (for this exercise) perspective angle. I still think its better than waiting a decade or so until something comes along that might be better. Its Tampa, during a recession, this isn't Singapore we are talking about. Maybe they could just stick it in an office park in north tampa or somewhere off I-75?

You're 100% right D to me thats where it looks like it belongs.
It'd be tough for anyone to eyeball that, I had to measure the lot, cos I wanted to be sure. I think I'm gonna write a blog about this on Connecting Tampa so I checked for myself.

I guessed sensible minimums, as the rendering is at a less than useful (for this exercise) perspective angle. I still think its better than waiting a decade or so until something comes along that might be better.
If they can't even meet the minimum urban standards that have been applied to the Kennedy corridor, then they can stick their proposal up their arse, and can instead occupy some of the ample vacant commercial space around town.

When the area was booming, design compromises were made because 'govt was understaffed' and 'delays cost money'... Now that the market is in a lull, suddenly the meme is 'we gotta take any shitty, cheap development we can get, because anything is better than nothing'... Yet through it all, the endgame is the same... The citizens of this city suffer a lesser quality of life, so that a handful of already wealthy developers can become even wealthier.

To hell with that bro. That's precisely how this city got so screwed up in the first place.

I got a email today from the Economic Development Admin. that they agree with my issue with the planning of the hospital site and have sent my email to every council member for them to see. Lets see if it has any influence though on their decision, I hope they do.

There are several reasons why I'm trying to be sensible about this proposal, the first is that this is Tampa we are talking about and not some first tier city. Like it or not, its kind of a take it or leave it kind of thing and the city really has no bargaining power as the ability to go elsewhere is very prevalent. The city would than have a nice big empty, crime encouraging parcel to have to worry about for probably at least a decade. That is unless someone wants to open a nice cheesy Buy Here - Pay Here lot which is already permitted and couldn't be stopped. Two the design isn't that bad and the third and I think this is where most people don't appreciate what density means. Which city in the US is denser Somerville, Maine or San Francisco? Somerville, Maine. In fact Somerville denser than Philly, Chicago or DC. The city doesn't have to look like Shanghai to have density and an urban feel. See:

http://yglesias.thinkprogress.org/2010/08/random-density-facts/
http://yglesias.thinkprogress.org/?p=42452
http://yglesias.thinkprogress.org/?p=40347

D, you're forgetting that the big issue here is the fact that there is a 300' gap between buildings, that is hardly urban. I guarantee you Somerville doesn't have any 300' gaps in the densest areas. Nobody is arguing here for a larger building. And even if they did a 300' gap in New England is different than a 300' gap in muggy swampland Florida

What I personally want is for pedestrians to have the visual and physical hierarchy in the Urban parts of Tampa. You can't do that when you are designing buildings in urban areas to be built for cars.
There's no way Tampa could even handle a ton of skyscrapers without developing better mass transit first.

If TGH really has such a HUGE problem with moving the parking then do this... PUT the park plaza on the street and parking behind that. PROBLEM SOLVED. If they are just being whiney cry babies about this then they can go f**k themselves, because this is not day care, this is a city. There are rules for a reason. EVEN HCC COMPLIED TO YBOR'S RULES! And HCC even claimed to be EXEMPT from the rules of building in Ybor

Aside from all that, Don't you think its strange that going down Kennedy goes from suburban style development to skyscrapers in just a few blocks?

I just don't want the city to be kicking itself in the ass 30-40 years from now because they allowed this project as the way it as while all the other projects that have been constructed in those future 40 years have been built for a urban area. Because honestly, there's enough ass kicking from the city with all the other decisions it has made.

What I don't understand is why can't they put the parking garage that is in the back of the render to the front, stack the two towers on it, and still have the drop-off/pick-up lane in the plans. They'll still have the building in the middle and then the back lot will be empty for a temporary park or something until they are in the need for more space.

http://www.baynews9.com/static/articles/images/2010/TGH-project-08310000_rdax_300x228.jpg

Well - it is multi story. That is good. It does not face the street. THat sucks. There is a relatively big parking area in the front. That sucks.

While I do not think that this is the best usage of prime space, I do feel that it is a "decent" filler project. I wonder how this will be received by the other businesses around the area. I would think that a project such as this one would mess up the flow of traffic and create problems with the elderly trying to get in and out of this development. Possibly they will set up yet another traffic light on Kennedy Boulevard.

Or they can remove the entrance on Kennedy and have people enter from the side streets.

^^Best option!

I'm only 38, so its not like I'm Gandalf with centuries of amassed knowledge. BUT, when it comes to large vacant tracts in "transitioning" areas, they are difficult to get anything moving in a good economy. Consider Gandy Blvd., half those craptastic properties sat doing nothing between 1999 and 07 when bankers were throwing money out the window to anyone with a lame ass scheme. Most likely, if TGH isn't permitted to do anything with it, it will sit fallow for 10 years +. That property combined with the other large parcels in the area make it much less than desirable. The knock-on effect for the projects that have been built will be significant. There is nothing like having a cracked ocean of asphalt and concrete next door to kill off potential townhome resales. Perfect is the enemy of good enough.

Perfect is the enemy of good enough.
Something is very, very wrong when 'illegal' equates to 'good enough'.

http://www.baynews9.com/static/articles/images/2010/TGH-project-08310000_rdax_300x228.jpg

Well - it is multi story. That is good. It does not face the street. THat sucks. There is a relatively big parking area in the front. That sucks.

A really stupid layout, which is seriously helped by simply rotating the hotel to front Kennedy, and rotating drop off/loading area so that the complex's traffic uses Willow and the street light at the Kennedy/Willow intersection (at the SE corner of the parcel) for vast majority of access into the site... The current plan would have traffic piling up in front of this complex trying to cross Kennedy, just a block from a traffic light with turn lanes and everything. Seriously, how stupid can these people get?

With the hotel and complex entrance rotated, the center of the complex opening onto Kennedy can be dedicated to pedestrians, with a little plaza flanked by perhaps 2-4 total storefronts for a cafe, gift shop and so on, in the base of the hotel and office tower.

I little example I whipped up real quick in sketchup...
http://img713.imageshack.us/img713/4305/thgkennedypic.jpg
As you can see, minor tweaking of the layout and mass of the buildings yields pretty much any size of drop off/loading area one could imagine, while still leaving room for some features they don't have, such as all-handicapped surface parking flanking Willow (right in front of the building), as well as enough space for some surface parking behind the hotel to serve the shops.

This parcel is huge and it's a blank slate. The developer's assertion that they can't do any better than what they have proposed to the city is ridiculous.

A really stupid layout, which is seriously helped by simply rotating the hotel to front Kennedy, and rotating drop off/loading area so that the complex's traffic uses Willow and the street light at the Kennedy/Willow intersection (at the SE corner of the parcel) for vast majority of access into the site... The current plan would have traffic piling up in front of this complex trying to cross Kennedy, just a block from a traffic light with turn lanes and everything. Seriously, how stupid can these people get?

With the hotel and complex entrance rotated, the center of the complex opening onto Kennedy can be dedicated to pedestrians, with a little plaza flanked by perhaps 2-4 total storefronts for a cafe, gift shop and so on, in the base of the hotel and office tower.

I little example I whipped up real quick in sketchup...
http://img713.imageshack.us/img713/4305/thgkennedypic.jpg
As you can see, minor tweaking of the layout and mass of the buildings yields pretty much any size of drop off/loading area one could imagine, while still leaving room for some features they don't have, such as all-handicapped surface parking flanking Willow (right in front of the building), as well as enough space for some surface parking behind the hotel to serve the shops.

This parcel is huge and it's a blank slate. The developer's assertion that they can't do any better than what they have proposed to the city is ridiculous.
That is a reasonable layout and I can't believe the city wouldn't at least expect that if not more. But then again this is Tampa the same city that has 40% rebuilt highway as the gateway to a downtown which is full of parking and empty lots and which got fairly insignificant projects while most of Florida got at least some decent ones. The same city that thinks every subdivision should have a traffic light or pushes so hard to improve the quality of life. :lol: Sorry but Tampa will always be a city of mediocrity which is why I plan to leave it, sometimes you just can't fix stupid.

Tampa is a very corrupt city... That is an extremely difficult hurdle to jump. But Tampa has always been corrupt, I mean the Hillsborough County Sheriff's Office ran guns for Castro back in the day.... What more do you expect from these greedy shrewd business men who have shaped Tampa into this shitty developer friendly suburban city.

I think the douches in Tampa who are ruining the city know what they are doing, and they're only doing it to make a buck at the public's expense.

Yeah that parking area in the front sucks. I do like your modification jasonhouse

Has anyone actually confirmed that the rendering is facing Kennedy? It's not labeled that I can see.

^Yes, the real rendering is definitely looking north.... My example is looking west.

You can tell the orientation by the wide pavement in front, and the narrow road on the left side, closely flanked by a parking lot. (which is how Oregon is)... Plus, you can tell by the shadows being cast by the buildings that this perspective is looking north.

Yeah that parking area in the front sucks. I do like your modification jasonhouse
It's not parking in the real rendering... It's ingress/egress, loading zones and landscaping.

My guess is that City Transportation said no to the main entrance on Willow, and that they will force right turn only onto Kennedy. But yes that is another solution and I doubt it was ignored for lack of interest, there is a reason why the proposal looks like it does.

^My guess is it so they wouldn't get stuck paying for intersection improvements at Kennedy/Willow, which not only involves a state highway (Kennedy is SR60), but also includes an integrated RR crossing into the intersection, and will thus be expensive and require extra regulatory hurdles to upgrade.

Trust me, the site's configuration is strictly about being cheap, not because of some building code that would prevent the developer from being able to use a public roadway for ingress/egress. Almost all surrouding properties are businesses already using those very same roadways for ingress/egress, and the traffic counts are nowhere near capacity on Willow or Oregon (or Kennedy for that matter). The developer is being cheap, pure and simple. And the city is going to let them get away with it, just watch and see...

^^Of course if the city grew a pair and told them they had to change that then I would be surprised.

Seems to me that if the City Council would approve that USF low-rise building in the middle of downtown, then they would probably approve this one as well. Too bad they couldn't be flip-flopped.

Isn't the USF project medical-oriented aswell? Why not add on to this project? Maybe start a little Medical Office District in West Tampa.

^I said this months ago when word was first getting around about these projects.

If they (USF) could have acquired land north of this proposed site, you would potentially have a nice little destination lined up for the most likely LTR line on Cypress.

Shoulda coulda woulda... lol

However it does allow for potential corporate recruiting in the future. Maybe something could be cobbled together by a med/pharma company. Also, there is the potential to encourage a cluster of doctors offices in the area. The area around Memorial is pretty heavy with doctors offices.

It's a shame the USF building couldn't be something like the Science building they're putting up on campus right now. Not a skyscraper, but 7 stories with a pretty large profile. 235,000 sq feet in total. I walk by it everyday on my way to class and it's a pretty impressive building. I don't think the complaints would be as strong if this building was going up along Franklin rather than a building almost 1/5 it's size.

http://biology.usf.edu/cmmb/images/isa.jpg

Anyone see this?

http://tampabay.bizjournals.com/tampabay/stories/2010/09/06/story1.html



TAMPA — A $100 million plan by Tampa General Hospital to build a rehabilitation complex on Kennedy Boulevard west of downtown underwent some rehab of its own after city planners said it fell short of urban design standards.
Hospital executives hope changes in parking, additional landscaping and new retail space will convince the City Council to approve rezoning and allow construction on 10 vacant acres that formerly housed a Ferman Automotive Group dealership.
The new facility would free up space at Tampa General’s main campus on Davis Islands, the largest hospital in the area with 988 licensed beds. Hospital officials said it would improve care to patients recovering from strokes, traumatic injuries and orthopedic surgeries. That could increase reimbursement for hospital treatment, which increasingly is based on quality and outcomes.
City planners agreed the proposed development would provide valuable medical services, create jobs and contribute to economic development. But they argued that should not be done by ignoring standards that call for pedestrian-friendly design and buildings close to the street in the Kennedy Boulevard Overlay District, west of the Hillsborough River to Himes Avenue.


Everybody happy now? :)

EDIT: Maybe I should had open the article before posting. The article is almost 3 weeks old and pretty much is what was originally posted. So the changes are what we see in the renders and not new changes to the overall plan. So I'm back to being unhappy until I see that the city grew some balls and have them fix what is planned.

EDIT: Maybe I should had open the article before posting. The article is almost 3 weeks old and pretty much is what was originally posted. So the changes are what we see in the renders and not new changes to the overall plan. So I'm back to being unhappy until I see that the city grew some balls and have them fix what is planned.


I know the article is old but I stumbled upon it tonight. And no new renderings but at least it looks like they realize they need to adjust the previous plans.

I know the article is old but I stumbled upon it tonight. And no new renderings but at least it looks like they realize they need to adjust the previous plans.
Well, the adjusted plans are what we have now, what many of us are not happy about. The plan that Jason put together, its something I would support. What the hospital has come up with is something I wouldn't support. The hospital should kept to the zoning requirements and develop their plans along Kennedy to what is suggested by the zoning variances.

Well, the adjusted plans are what we have now, what many of us are not happy about. The plan that Jason put together, its something I would support. What the hospital has come up with is something I wouldn't support. The hospital should kept to the zoning requirements and develop their plans along Kennedy to what is suggested by the zoning variances.



They are? This article refers to retail being placed along the street which I didn't see in the original article.

Sorry.

The "improved" version is the one we're complaining about.

Thanks for the article though. :)

Tampa General Hospital plans to build rehab complex downtown
By Letitia Stein, Times Staff Writer
In Print: Saturday, October 9, 2010

TAMPA — Tampa General Hospital plans a $100 million rehabilitation complex at the entrance to downtown Tampa on Kennedy Boulevard.

The project, which the City Council approved Thursday, will feature 59 patient beds, with room for expansion, and a lodge to house the family members of patients facing long-term stays.

The complex will rise on nearly 10 acres on Kennedy Boulevard that was formerly home to a car dealership, the Ferman Automotive Group. It replaces the 25-year-old rehabilitation center at the Davis Islands hospital.

"We needed a bigger and better rehab facility. We can't build any more where we are," said spokesman John Dunn, noting the location's proximity to the main hospital.

The six-story rehabilitation center will incorporate space for therapy on the patient floors. At the existing facility, the patients have to go down to the first floor for treatment.

It features more private rooms and expanded therapy areas. Site plans incorporate large, green spaces and a medical office building.

Hospital planners lowered the height of the parking garage because city officials wanted a design more suitable to the location, a main downtown entryway.

Tampa General aims to begin construction in about 18 months, Dunn said. He noted that the $100 million cost remains an estimate.

Tampa General has not yet decided how to use the space that will be freed up at its main campus.

http://www.tampabay.com/news/health/tampa-general-hospital-plans-to-build-rehab-complex-downtown/1126984
Anyone want to put a bet down that the city did nothing to have the hospital change the layout of their project and we're stuck with what almost all of us are complaining about? I'll put down $100 million. :bash:

The version of the article in the TBT has a little more info:

The City Council on Thursday approved a 50-bed rehabilitation center, medical offices and a hotel on nearly 10 acres along Kennedy Boulevard formerly occupied by a car dealership. The rezoning clears the way for a Tampa General Hospital project that initially was delayed over city concerns that its design was inconsistent with one of the main entryways into downtown. In the new plan, the medical project will include large green spaces and parking garages with “green” roofs, city records show. It could be 165 feet high along Kennedy Boulevard. The site, at 1307 W Kennedy Blvd., was once occupied by Ferman Automotive Group. The hospital’s foundation said it has also acquired nearly 5 acres across the boulevard at a site currently occupied by Bryn-Alan Studios photography where the hospital plans to house electronic records.

Even though it is talking about another TGH project, I'll make my point after the article.

Security fence at issue in Tampa General project on Kennedy Boulevard
By Richard Danielson, Times Staff Writer
In Print: Tuesday, December 7, 2010


TAMPA — Tampa General Hospital aims to move 450 employees to a two-story home near downtown, but city development review officials are skeptical of part of the $5 million project.

It's a 6-foot-tall security fence, 490 feet of which would be along W Kennedy Boulevard.

City rules allow a 2-foot wall along Kennedy, a height that permits bench seating.

In a report to the City Council, officials say the height proposed by Tampa General creates a "physical barricade" that "does not enhance the public realm" and is a "violation of proper urban design standards."

At most, city officials say, the fence should be 4 feet tall.

In response, Tampa General representatives say it's not just any fence.

They say they plan to replicate the University of Tampa's fence, with its brick columns and black ornamental spikes, on their side of Kennedy.

"We are also residents of the city of Tampa," said Oslec Fernandez, the hospital's director of facilities management. "Downtown, of course, is very important to the city. So we are not going to do something that is ugly or detrimental."

A rezoning for the project is scheduled to go to a public hearing at the Tampa City Council at 6 p.m. Thursday. Also on the agenda is Tampa General's request to vacate and close Brevard Avenue between Kennedy and W Cleveland Street.

That would allow Tampa General to amass 5.6 acres for the two-story building, once owned by Bryn-Alan Photography, and 457 parking spaces.

Once renovations are complete, the building would house information technology and finance employees now on the main campus on Davis Islands.

The hospital hopes to move into the renovated building in early April, Fernandez said.

City officials also have raised questions about the parking, which they fear would dominate Kennedy's streetscape.

City rules require 177 spaces, but hospital attorney David Mechanik said more are needed. Building only what is required would not give the project enough spaces for employees, he said.

Again, Fernandez said, the appearance shouldn't be a problem. Between Kennedy and the parking lot will be a sidewalk with concrete panels and brick trim, 24 feet of landscaped setback and the UT-style fence.

The renovation, known as the Corporate Center, is not Tampa General's only project planned on Kennedy.

In October, the City Council approved the hospital's plans for a $100 million rehabilitation complex.

That project will feature 59 patient beds, plus room for expansion, and a lodge to house relatives of patients facing long-term stays.

It will go on 10 acres on Kennedy that once was home to the Ferman Automotive Group car dealership. The hospital has said it plans to begin the six-story project in about 16 months.

http://www.tampabay.com/news/localgovernment/security-fence-at-issue-in-tampa-general-project-on-kennedy-boulevard/1138559
NO NO NO! Why does another part of Tampa have to be anchored down by growth by people that have no idea what the f*ck they are doing? What's on the site now for the TGH corporate center is the building that will be renovated, the parking spaces, and much empty land. I believe half of the land was once planned for a mixed use development a while back.

The idea of replicating the UT fence makes no sense, the project doesn't even connect to the land with UT. What is the point of replicating the fence when it's going to look out of place in the first place? And if anything, Kennedy shouldn't have fences, not even on the UT site. There is 50 places where anyone can walk on the campus, what does the fences do?

And why can't TGH include this in their other project and add two stories to the 6 story tower? Why do they need to buy and detroy another lot with a mediocre project? Tampa's "Gateway to Tampa" project is a complete joke if this is allowed.

Strange that UT didn't scoop up that spot--they have been picking up lots of land in that area and that would be a prime spot for them.

That is aweful. The properties across the street are at least 4-6 stories. Also no one else has fences. It would be aweful if any fence is allowed to be built. It sounds like this project will not fit in at all.

That is aweful. The properties across the street are at least 4-6 stories. Also no one else has fences. It would be aweful if any fence is allowed to be built. It sounds like this project will not fit in at all.

I agree, but UT has fences and is directly across the street so it's not exactly unprecedented.

^If TGH is going to make their property a first class university, then they can build a fence around it too.

It reminds me of the BofA back office processing plant on Gandy. Just a big awful mess of an impersonal facade basically telling anyone looking at it to F-off.

^You should see their processing center in N Tampa... The parking garage is more welcoming than the building itself.

Tampa General Hospital project near downtown moves ahead

By Richard Danielson, Times Staff Writer
In Print: Friday, December 10, 2010

TAMPA — Tampa General Hospital's proposed Corporate Center near downtown Tampa won initial City Council approval Thursday night, complete with its proposed 6-foot-tall fence.

The hospital is asking for a rezoning that would allow it to renovate a two-story building and put 450 employees and 457 parking spaces on 5.6 acres on W Kennedy Boulevard.

The city's development review staff had objected to the project's security fence, which would run along Kennedy for 490 feet. City rules allow a wall no higher than 2 feet along Kennedy.

But council members had little problem with the ornamental metal fence, which is designed to match the 6-foot spiked fence at the University of Tampa across the street.

"I don't think it's so terrible," Council member Mary Mulhern said.

The project is part of Tampa General's plan to spend nearly $127 million on two Kennedy Boulevard projects.

The hospital spent $9.7 million buying the land it needs for the Corporate Center. It plans to spend another $5 million renovating an existing office building on the site for information technology and finance staff.

Tampa General spent another $12.25 million buying 10 acres on Kennedy that once was home to the Ferman car dealership. It plans to spend $100 million building a six-story rehabilitation complex with 59 patient beds, plus room for expansion, and a lodge for family members of long-term patients.

The rehab center received City Council approval in October.

The rezoning for the Corporate Center, plus a requested closure of Brevard Avenue from Kennedy to W Cleveland Street, is scheduled for a final council vote at 9:30 a.m. Jan. 6.

http://www.tampabay.com/news/localgovernment/tampa-general-hospital-project-near-downtown-moves-ahead/1139170

This is corrupt b-u-l-l-s-h-i-t imho.

"I don't think its so terrible." Let's see how you feel after its built and you have a ~500ft pedestrian deadzone. Nothings more inviting than uninterrupted head height walling/fencing, just ask the folks in Berlin.

"I don't think its so terrible." Let's see how you feel after its built and you have a ~500ft pedestrian deadzone. Nothings more inviting than uninterrupted head height walling/fencing, just ask the folks in Berlin.

It's a dead zone now, but I think it's more than a bit excessive to compare this to the Berlin wall. Besides the obvious facts, while the columns may indeed be head height the fence is entirely see through. I've walked past UT plenty of times and never felt upset about their fence.

The fence as a structure doesn't bother me, it's the siting and the resulting dead zone and suburban style setbacks this is going to create in the heart of the city. It's absolutely beyond my comprehension how an objective minded city council would ever dare approve this. Oh wait, this is the same city that let that disaster of a parking garage be built in Channelside. This isn't going to be a school or a hospital where more intense security may be justified. This project simply has two small office buildings for the management running the hospital system. These buildings should absolutely be fronting Kennedy with some space for several smaller businesses on the ground floor. They should also be compelled to build to a certain minimum density. 450 workers on a whopping 5.6 acres is not impressive at all.

The only saving grace is that the surface parking lot will be so huge, that if the new building they put up is oriented properly, there's more than enough space to come back later and put up a parking garage on part of the parking lot, and a building of practically any height on the rest. I haven't seen the site plan, but my guess is that they won't be orienting the new building like that. I bet they plop it in the middle of the open parcel, typical of a suburban campus, thus killing redevelopment potential and all hope of this parcel ever adding to the quality of life of that neighborhood. It's pretty dumb if you think about it, because it makes the property worth significantly less than what it would be worth with such redevelopment potential built right into its site plan.

The fence as a structure doesn't bother me, it's the siting and the resulting dead zone and suburban style setbacks this is going to create in the heart of the city. It's absolutely beyond my comprehension how an objective minded city council would ever dare approve this. Oh wait, this is the same city that let that disaster of a parking garage be built in Channelside. This isn't going to be a school or a hospital where more intense security may be justified. This project simply has two small office buildings for the management running the hospital system. These buildings should absolutely be fronting Kennedy with some space for several smaller businesses on the ground floor. They should also be compelled to build to a certain minimum density. 450 workers on a whopping 5.6 acres is not impressive at all.

The only saving grace is that the surface parking lot will be so huge, that if the new building they put up is oriented properly, there's more than enough space to come back later and put up a parking garage on part of the parking lot, and a building of practically any height on the rest. I haven't seen the site plan, but my guess is that they won't be orienting the new building like that. I bet they plop it in the middle of the open parcel, typical of a suburban campus, thus killing redevelopment potential and all hope of this parcel ever adding to the quality of life of that neighborhood. It's pretty dumb if you think about it, because it makes the property worth significantly less than what it would be worth with such redevelopment potential built right into its site plan.

Are they actually building a new structure? The news reports have all said renovating, not constructing. I don't see how they would fit 400+ employees in what's there now so they may very well be building, but it hasn't been mentioned.

I don't know... Is it just one? I didn't think the building in question was that big.

I went and looked it up... The building they are renovating is 46,000 sqft... Which is certainly big enough for 450 employees, especially if a number of them are on a double shift, for example... So, we're basically talking 2/3rds of an acre of building, and almost 5 acres of surface parking, landscaping and fencing.

So there's the good news... They could come back and redevelop the sea of surface parking at a later date.

Probably part of their long term plan to sit on the land for future expansion off of David Island

Still doesnt explain the fence, which appears to be about their determination to plop down a subruban style "campus" in the heart of the city.

Tampa General Hospital Corporate Center as of 5/3/2011

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5026/5685256125_b49240b327_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/tampamike/5685256125/)
Tampa 042 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/tampamike/5685256125/) by TampaMike2 (http://www.flickr.com/people/tampamike/), on Flickr

So is this right where Kennedy splits before going past UT? Isn't there like the worlds smallest park at the parking lisland in the median there? Trying to get my bearings, haven't been to D.T. in about 3 years.. used to do a ton of work and my office was right near there..

So is this right where Kennedy splits before going past UT? Isn't there like the worlds smallest park at the parking lisland in the median there? Trying to get my bearings, haven't been to D.T. in about 3 years.. used to do a ton of work and my office was right near there..

Exactly right.

Building looks better than it did before, but not by much.

So sad that the overlay district's design guidelines don't apply to large property owners, only the small ones who often can't afford the mandates anyways.

Tampa General Hospital set for growth, but financial questions loom
Tampa Bay Business Journal - by Margie Manning, Senior Staff Writer
Date: Friday, May 13, 2011, 6:00am EDT

TAMPA — The financial impact of federal health care legislation and state budget cuts could crimp growth at Tampa General Hospital.

The hospital wants to invest more than $100 million in building projects on West Kennedy Boulevard, but the projects may not get done or may be delayed because of uncertainty about reimbursement for the services the hospital provides, said Steve Short, executive vice president and chief financial officer.

http://www.bizjournals.com/tampabay/print-edition/2011/05/13/tampa-general-hospital-set-for-growth.html

Moffiit's expansion just got screwed, and St Joseph's expansion was already screwed up a few years ago. Might as well kill a few more good jobs and screw up TGH's expansion too. Tampa residents don't care about good education or transportation, so why would they care about their health? Clearly, they don't because I don't hear anybody lifting a finger to do somethigng about it.

Those three things have nothing to do with Tampa residents. They have to do with Washington and with Tallahassee - where Orlando area legislators are screwing us left and right

yeah its a national thing. Its based upon medicare cuts. Thats why there is wave of doctors and hospital groups merging because of the upcoming cuts in reinbursement.

Its a change in reimbursement rates, not really a cut. Its a cut in money going out, but that is like saying you cut the money on buying a car because you negotiated a better deal. So yes less money is going out, but you end up with the same end product. Doctors in the US make substantially more than doctors anywhere else in the world. And its not just elective surgery driving up the averages.

yeah its a national thing. Its based upon medicare cuts. Thats why there is wave of doctors and hospital groups merging because of the upcoming cuts in reinbursement.


It appears he was speaking of the changes Rick Scott wants to make to medicaid... Basically by adding them to insurance companies instead of working directly with healthcare providers. How this saves money is still TBA.

http://www.tampabay.com/news/health/tampa-bays-medicaid-patients-up-for-grabs/1165728

Tampa Bay's Medicaid patients up for grabs

Hospitals in the Tampa Bay region that long have vied for patients now may band together to take on a bigger competitor: the managed care industry.

At stake: the multibillion-dollar business of caring for Florida's poorest residents.

Tampa General Hospital, All Children's Hospital and BayCare Health System — which includes the St. Joseph's hospitals, Morton Plant and St. Anthony's — are discussing forming a network to coordinate care for low-income children, pregnant women and poor adults.

The concept would allow the not-for-profit hospitals to compete directly with for-profit managed care plans. The driver? Gov. Rick Scott and the Republican-controlled Legislature plan sweeping changes to the Medicaid program, which at $20 billion annually represents one of the state's biggest expenses.

Lawmakers think the state could save money by putting nearly all Medicaid patients into managed care plans run by insurance companies or health care providers. Currently, Medicaid recipients don't have to join a health maintenance organization, and can deal directly with doctors and other practitioners.

Local hospitals contend that they would do a better job at coordinating care.

"It's in the spirit of the needs of children and pregnant moms and adult citizens that are in the Medicaid program that we're looking to find a way that we can make every dollar of the Medicaid program count," said BayCare chief executive Steve Mason.

It's better to send tax dollars to not-for-profit local institutions that already are caring for residents than to national companies seeking profits for their stockholders, he said. And local hospitals are going to continue to care for the community's poor even if the for-profit companies decide to pull out.

Exactly what will change for the 430,000 Medicaid patients in the Tampa Bay area and 2.9 million around Florida? It's too soon to tell. The Legislature won't conclude its session until next month. And Medicaid is funded by both the state and federal government, so Washington would weigh in.

But because the hospitals have so much at stake, their leaders have started planning. Seventy percent of patients at All Children's are covered by Medicaid, as are half the moms who give birth at St. Joseph's Women's Hospital. At Tampa General, nearly 75 percent of deliveries and one in five patients overall are covered by Medicaid.

"We feel we're better together," All Children CEO Gary Carnes said. "And it would be more cost-effective to be together than if we all are doing different plans."

• • •

Facing a $4 billion budget deficit, state lawmakers have targeted cuts to Medicaid, which accounts for more than one-fourth of the state's total budget.

Earlier this month, the Florida House approved a proposal that would shift most of the state's Medicaid patients into managed-care plans over the next five years. A bill analysis stated cost savings were not a sure thing, but enthusiasm among the probusiness governor and legislators has put this plan on the fast track. Similar legislation is advancing in the Senate.

More than half of the state's Medicaid patients voluntarily belong to a for-profit HMO, or are in a pilot program testing managed care by health care providers in five Florida counties along the east coast.

Nobody can say for certain whether either kind of managed care is saving any money over traditional Medicaid. And a Georgetown University study of the pilot program found that if money was saved, it could be because some patients didn't get the care they needed.

Local hospital officials say that if they banded together to form what is known as a provider service network, they could not guarantee cost savings for the state. But they do hope they can deliver better preventive care, said Tampa General CEO Ron Hytoff.

Currently, many Medicaid patients, like the uninsured, wait until they are sick enough to go to an emergency room. By then, their problems are usually more expensive to treat.

And many say they can't find private doctors who will accept Medicaid's reimbursements, which are lower than Medicare, the government plan for seniors, or private insurance.

Local hospital leaders say that if care were better managed, people would receive more preventive care, avoid the ER, and enjoy better health.

But again, no one knows for certain.

• • •

Jay Wolfson, a health policy expert at the University of South Florida, noted that lawmakers have focused largely on saving money.

"There's not a whole lot in the legislative language that looks at quality, safety, outcomes or access," he said. "It could be bad for care."

He commended the hospitals for talking about better care, not just cheaper care.

"It's really cool that you've got these hospitals coming together to talk about caring for this at-risk population," he said.

Hospital executives are talking about forming a corporation to receive state funding for 20,000 to 50,000 Medicaid patients. The corporation would contract with local physicians and hospitals to serve patients, said Steve Short, chief financial officer for Tampa General.

Sarasota Memorial Hospital has also joined the discussion, and leaders say they are open to including other not-for-profit hospitals, such as Bayfront Medical Center.

"It's not an exclusive club," Short said.

A consortium of local hospitals forming their own network is believed to be a new concept, Short said, one that developed in recent months from discussions among hospital CEOs.

Regardless of who gets the business, experts say the push for privatization should inspire new players to enter the market as they vie for Medicaid beneficiaries.

"It's going to be quite competitive," Wolfson said.

Richard Martin can be reached at rmartin@sptimes.com or (727) 893-8330. Letitia Stein can be reached at lstein@sptimes.com or (813) 226-3322.

"Regardless of who gets the business, experts say the push for privatization should inspire new players to enter the market as they vie for Medicaid beneficiaries.

It's going to be quite competitive," Wolfson said.
Deciding who pockets the bulk of the largess from unregulated government mandates always is. One thing is blatantly clear, the beneficiaries will NOT be local patients, local workers or the taxpayers.

Any news on this project lately? I drove by and from what I seen, it looks the same.

I drove by the site last night. Anyone know if the chain fencing around the site is new? It's not around the lot next to Kennedy Blvd., but the lot behind it. I couldn't see anything else since it was around 10 pm when I drove by.

That fencing has been there for a long time. TGH uses the site for employee parking, and then they shuttle them to the hospital.

That fencing has been there for a long time. TGH uses the site for employee parking, and then they shuttle them to the hospital.
Thanks!

The project that is discussed on the last couple of pages of this thread was on the council agenda a couple of weeks ago.

It now includes a six-story building with retail along Kennedy, a ten-story garage on the corner of Cleveland and Fielding, and the possible replacement of the recently renovated existing structure with a six-story building in a similar orientation.

The added retail is a nice addition. Let's hope they put out some renderings in the near future.

Here's what is included in the city council draft agenda

(planned development,
office, business/professional and medical, transportation service facility, retail,
multi-family residential, college and daycare/nursery facility)

I really want to see what they have plan now with all these things listed.

And you will likely get a box with a hedge and a small garage and surface parking because "the economy" will not allow them to build more.

Why didn't they put CAMLS there?

And you will likely get a box with a hedge and a small garage and surface parking because "the economy" will not allow them to build more.

Why didn't they put CAMLS there?
Should had put this, CAMLS, and the other TGH project altogether in one project. Which baffles me now is if thy plan on doing all this, why not just include this stuff with the TGH expansion project?

I think the economy is on an upswing right now and is a reason why TGH is going to demolish what they just renovated and build what is planned. I just wonder if the money people are fine dishing out thousands for renovations to a building that is going to be demolished.

Why didn't they put CAMLS there?
Corruption doesn't concern itself with such things.

Crews are there today. Not sure what type of work they are doing.