Sydneysiders to have a say on the city's future

[Fabian]

A masterplan which will dictate future planning in Sydney is to be released later this year, and Sydneysiders will get their chance to voice their views about it before it is made public. It's a rare chance for all Sydneysiders to be involved in planning the city's future.

Residents to have say in Sydney's future
By Frank Walker
July 25, 2004
From The Sun-Herald (smh.com.au)

http://www.smh.com.au/ffximage/2004/07/25/430-sydney.jpg
Land of plenty ... These Landsat satellite pictures from Geoscience Australia show how Sydney has grown in 20 years. Bushland is depicted in red and rooftops blue. The 1984 image shows farmland to the south-west, with Campbelltown and Penrith quite separate from Sydney. In the 2004 picture there are many new suburbs in this region. Mini-cities are planned for Bringelly and Marsden Park.

Sydney is growing at the rate of more than 1000 people a week, and from next month Sydneysiders will be asked just how they want their city to expand - up, out or squeezed closer together.

Planning Minister Craig Knowles will present the first master plan for the future of Sydney at the end of this year, but before then will hold community meetings to gauge what the people of Sydney think.

There are some hard decisions to make.

Sydney grows at the rate of 54,000 people a year. The current population of 4,290,272 will pass 5 million by 2020 and 6.5 million by 2050.

Sydney will stretch from Newcastle to Wollongong. It is consuming the state. Within 20 years a million people will live along the F3 between the Hawkesbury and Port Stephens, another million on the Princes Highway south of Sydney to the Illawarra.

Premier Bob Carr fears Sydney will simply get too big.

Forty per cent of migrants settle in Sydney, and Mr Carr warns Sydney could reach an intolerable 14 million people if migration raises Australia's population to 50 million by the end of this century.

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The 1984 Geoscience Australia photo shows the western spread only just beginning. There were vast tracts of vacant land shown in red or pink west of Campbelltown and Camden, and south-west of Prospect Reservoir.

Penrith was still separate from the city sprawl, and along the roads to Windsor in the north-west it was mostly pastoral land.

But the 2004 satellite photo shows the huge increase in settlement (shown in blue) to the south-west and north-west of Sydney. Homes now cover all the way to Penrith and are reaching towards Richmond.

Only the natural barriers of the Blue Mountains to the west, Royal National Park to the south and Ku-ring-gai National Park to the north seem to have limited the spread of Sydney.

On top of the sheer growth in the number of people living in the Sydney basin, fewer people are living in each household because of the ageing population and childless couples. This means even more homes are needed.

More than 100,000 dwellings were built in the past 20 years just to meet the need created by reduced household size.

One of the major problems to be met is water supply. Levels at dams are falling with the drought.

Even if heavy rains fill the dams, the government has said Sydney's usage will have to fall by a third over the next 20 years to ensure there is enough drinking water for all.

Mr Knowles was on holiday last week, unable to discuss the progress of his plan for Sydney. A spokeswoman said a timetable for community consultation was being drawn up for the coming months.

The Government's urban consolidation policy has slowed Sydney's westward sprawl. In the past five years 70 per cent of new dwellings have been inside the existing urban area.

Between 1994 and 2001 the proportion of new homes built on the fringes of Sydney fell by 15 per cent, while the proportion of new dwellings built in the inner urban area grew 13 percentage points.

New suburbs are springing up on old industrial sites and farmland.

The policy is unpopular among many. Houses are being knocked down for blocks of flats, the quarter acre block is being subdivided, vacant land where people walked dogs or played is being covered in huge developments.

New mini-cities are being planned across the Sydney basin to cut down on the need to cross the city to work. Bringelly in Sydney's west will have 250,000 residents and Marsden Park in the north-west will have another 160,000 residents.

High-rise flats are going up on industrial sites around the harbour, new suburbs like Pemulwuy are going up on industrial sites not far from Parramatta. The sprawl along Windsor Road to the north-west will continue to grow as vacant land is filled in.

In the west, new areas being opened up include around Glenmore Park, near Penrith.

In the south-west, large areas opening up including Elderslie and Spring Farm near Camden, Menangle Park, Harrington Park, Edmonson Park and vast areas west of Hoxton Park.


A city the size of Canberra is added every six years

· Sydney grows by 54,000 people a year.

· The city's population of 4.29 million swells to 4.9 million when the Central Coast, Lower Hunter and Illawarra are included in what planners call the Greater Metropolitan Region.

· By 2020 Sydney will have 5 million residents.

· By 2050 Sydney will have 6.5 million residents.

· By 2031 Sydney will have 64.6 per cent of the NSW population, up from the current 62.8 per cent.

· A city the size of Canberra is added to Sydney every six years.

· Each Sydney household has, on average, 2.6 people living in it. Thirty years ago the average was more than three people per household.

· Thirty per cent of new housing over the next 15 years will come from vacant greenfields land. The rest is consolidation of existing urban land.

· Over the next 15 years the fastest growing household types will be couple-only and lone-person households. They are expected to increase by more than 400,000 in this period.

· New suburbs of Sydney since 1984: Pemulwuy; Beaumont Hills; Lane Cove North; Lane Cove West; Huntleys Cove; Wolli Creek;. Kellyville Ridge; Sun Valley; Blair Athol; Clemton Park; Englorie Park; Newington; Bardwell Valley; Liberty Grove; Abbotsbury; Acacia Gardens; Agnes Banks; Arndell Park; Barden Ridge; Bar Point; Bligh Park; Canoelands; Cecil Hills; Colebee;. Currans Hill; Dean Park; Denham Court; Edmondson Park; Grasmere; Hassall Grove; Horningsea Park; Jamisontown; Kirkham;. Maianbar; Mount Annan; Mount Vernon; Shalvey; Smeaton Grange; Spring Farm; Stanhope Gardens; Werrington County.

[Avatar]

Up Up Up!

[Noonos]

UP, UP and out west!

[ShayPlan]

Bad idea. Sydneysiders all have different values and ideas, some detrimental towards sustainable development.

[ShayPlan]

UP, UP and out west!


This is just the thinking planners, like myself, do not want to see in western Sydney!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ShayPlan]

Sydney must densify its population to enable a growth that typifies a world city.

"Mini cities at Marsden Park and Bringelly" ridiculous. Next thing, there would be urban development in World Heritage Blue Mtns NP and then Southern Highlands, Canberra, Newcastle and Wollongong included in metropolitan Sydney!!! :bash:

[demanjo]

Yes there needs to be further urban consolodation & censer built up areas allowing a more effective & efficient running of the city now & development of infrastructe to cope with the denser populations of the future. This denser population will make these transport networks feasable and finally drive us away from the highway systems being developed to transport huge amounts of westerners into the city.

[chrisaus]

Sounds Like Perth's "Dialogue With The City" Planning Forum I Attended
www.dpi.wa.gov.au/dialogue

[ShayPlan]

Yes there needs to be further urban consolodation & censer built up areas allowing a more effective & efficient running of the city now & development of infrastructe to cope with the denser populations of the future. This denser population will make these transport networks feasable and finally drive us away from the highway systems being developed to transport huge amounts of westerners into the city.

Urban consolidation! That's the word I was after. Been a long week.
I agree, Sydney' metro area should not extend further than the West Sydney Orbital Road. And Penrith should become an independent city, with its metropolitan area: north to the (Proposed) Castlereagh Expressway, West to Blue Mountains Escarpment, East to West Sydney Orbital, South to Elizabeth Drive.

[Syd-Hk]

Urban consolidation! That's the word I was after. Been a long week.
I agree, Sydney' metro area should not extend further than the West Sydney Orbital Road. And Penrith should become an independent city, with its metropolitan area: north to the (Proposed) Castlereagh Expressway, West to Blue Mountains Escarpment, East to West Sydney Orbital, South to Elizabeth Drive.

yeah, who wants an american styled urban area/sprawl in an australian soil?! :)

[Fabian]

Urban consolidation! That's the word I was after. Been a long week.
I agree, Sydney' metro area should not extend further than the West Sydney Orbital Road. And Penrith should become an independent city, with its metropolitan area: north to the (Proposed) Castlereagh Expressway, West to Blue Mountains Escarpment, East to West Sydney Orbital, South to Elizabeth Drive.

People in Penrith do feel that they are in their own city even though they call themselves a "regional centre"

And Sydney's urban development already has reached the orbital if not passed it. The route backs onto suburbs on the fringes eg Cecil Hills.

Also I think it's a good idea for the Sydneysiders to be involved, as all Sydneysiders will get the chance to have their say on how the city should be planned for the years to come and how to confront any challenges that the city may face in the years ahead. I think it will result in a more effective planning policy which is more likely to work.

[MILIUX]

So Chatswood style blueprint the way to go?

[Cee_em_bee]

Sydney will stretch from Newcastle to Wollongong. It is consuming the state. Within 20 years a million people will live along the F3 between the Hawkesbury and Port Stephens,


Well the population between the Hawksbury and Port Stephens is already 800,000 (Newcastle Metro/ Hunter 500,000, Central Coast 300,000)

[ShayPlan]

People in Penrith do feel that they are in their own city even though they call themselves a "regional centre"

And Sydney's urban development already has reached the orbital if not passed it. The route backs onto suburbs on the fringes eg Cecil Hills.

Also I think it's a good idea for the Sydneysiders to be involved, as all Sydneysiders will get the chance to have their say on how the city should be planned for the years to come and how to confront any challenges that the city may face in the years ahead. I think it will result in a more effective planning policy which is more likely to work.

I agree. Sydney planners should adopt a more European approach to building cities. An American sprawl is inevitable in Sydney if we do not set our boundaries for urban growth.

Penrith. For independency. Major Suburbs of Penrith should include St. Marys and Mount Druitt.

[Fabian]

An American sprawl is inevitable in Sydney if we do not set our boundaries for urban growth.


It's been happening for more than fifty years because of our ignorance to bring it under control!!!

[Fabian]

Get ready guys.

Also here's the link to view the strategy.
http://www.metrostrategy.nsw.gov.au/

From The Sydney Morning Herald (smh.com.au)
City sprawl - it's at the gate
By Darren Goodsir, Urban Affairs Editor
September 17, 2004

The State Government has unveiled its strategy to cope with Sydney's urban development needs - and it is inviting residents at random to comment.

Hundreds of Sydney residents chosen in a random electoral roll search will be invited to a series of government-led forums to develop a consensus about the city's housing, transport and population challenges for the next 30 years.

Twelve meetings will be held next month and in November, with a full report on light rail, development around major roads and renewal of run-down suburbs set for release next year.

Lobbyists, community groups and activists will not attend the sessions. They will be consulted later, along with local governments and industry leaders.

The announcement of the "focus group" forums follows the release yesterday of the discussion paper for the government's metropolitan strategy, which is the blueprint in progress for how Sydney will deal with the influx of 1000 new residents each week.

Infrastructure funding, transport improvements, new housing, and employment centres will be priorities.

Four major development programs, including the 1.2-kilometre waterfront stretch along east Darling Harbour, were also flagged for urgent attention.

Other studies include the Port Botany expansion and the challenge of taking more freight off the roads; the M4 East tunnel; and Parramatta Road rejuvenation - with hopes for a light rail network and a CBD offshoot.

A study of land and employment needs along the 40-kilometre M7 Westlink motorway - to be completed in late 2006 - will also be conducted.

The Minister for Infrastructure, Planning and Natural Resources, Craig Knowles, said Sydney had to develop new ways of dealing with a confusing set of policies, a poorly serviced group of existing suburbs, bad transport links, and land release pressures.

"How we cater for that growth, how to maintain our standard of living, how we develop our city's position as the leading economic powerhouse in the country, and how we do all this while protecting our natural resources are questions that we should all be thinking about," Mr Knowles said.

"Sydney is an incredible city. It is internationally recognised for both its natural assets and for its prosperity.

"But it is at a crossroads. Now is the time for us to map out how we can retain those assets through the next several decades of growth."

The Premier, Bob Carr, launched the metropolitan strategy last May with a futures forum. Since then, a local government workshop has been held in addition to the appointment of advisers and commissioners on transport, funding, renewal of suburbs, effective planning in new release areas.

The discussion paper is designed to assist in the focus groups.

The Local Government Association said it welcomed the release of the discussion paper.

Its president, Dr Sara Murray, said she looked forward to playing a role in the development of the strategy and urged all councils to make submissions, due by the end of November.

The director of the Council of Social Service of NSW, Gary Moore, supported the paper's release and praised the commitment to restrict 30 per cent of new homes to greenfield sites, with the rest required to occur in existing suburbs and city fringe areas.

But Mr Moore said there was little in the paper to give hope to reducing social disadvantage and the "income apartheid" that Sydney's property boom had fostered.

"The discussion paper identifies sound directions for planning Sydney's future," Mr Moore said.

"However, it is very sparse when it comes to setting concrete outcomes for strong, diverse and dynamic local communities in 20 to 30 years' time."

The NSW Urban Taskforce, representing property developers, also supported the thrust of the discussion paper. Enough progress had been made on the nine critical target areas so far to give them hope of a credible series of recommendations.

The Opposition planning spokeswoman, Peta Seaton, criticised the announcement, saying "the second-time-around" planning minister should have done more earlier to head off Sydney's planning complexities. "It's taken them nine years to pull together nothing but a discussion paper," she said.

[cammo2004]

Well, probably the main problem is that that greater metropolitan area already exists economically. I've considered Wollongong and the Central Coast as part of Sydney for some time now as they are basically just commuter centres (particularly the Central Coast, although Wollongong does have its own CBD.).

Expand Mass Transit capacity to deal with the sprawl problems. A few suggestions would be:

Build a Northern Beaches U/G rail line (would be a great idea to trial metro-style on that line - I have a suggested route in mind, as well), and use the currently redundant 26/27 platforms at Central, and build an extra station in the CBD (would give quite a capacity increase in the inner areas. This line could also be extended down the line to provide a second (and somewhat more direct) Newcastle-Central Coast-Sydney Route via the coastal suburbs - and this is desperately needed.

Sydney needs to become MT-centric, not car-centric (ie: build any new areas and major suburbs at convenient points for MT access - such as rail terminii. If there is convenient access and quality service, people will use it.

And a tollway is NOT the answer. Why else do you think the Central Coast has become so popular? The F3. Wollongong? The F6. Western Sydney? The M4, M5 and M2. Blue Mtns? The M4. As quoted by someone here 'Building roads to ease congestion is like loosing your belt to cure obesity' (or something like that).

Freeways have their place, but they're not the be all and end all.

The government seems to fail to realise that that same theory can be applied to MT. That is: expand rail services and improve their quality and usefulness, and people will use them. Plus, you'll actually get some money back.

Unfortunately, for that to be a success, government actually has to take initiative and not listen to the so-called experts who say that more freeways will solve the problem.

Decentralise

One of the problems in Sydney that the Sydney CBD employs about twice the amount of the rest of the city combined. This has worked fine until now, but at a population of 4.2mill we are starting to feel the pinch.

The fact that Newcastle and Wollongong are physically seperated from Greater Sydney will also help the Decentralisation idea psychologically. Because for all intensive purposes they are seperate cities (although economically they are currently quite heavily linked to Sydney due to the freeways).

Decentralising will allow us to move more towards the way that European cities are. *Note though that this would also require the densification of the MT network, which would initially mean more buses. Inner Sydney could adopt a tram network (particularly on Oxford St).

A major centre, say every 20-30km would help to decentralise Sydney - and the good news is we have existing centres at about that. All we need to do is expand them to employ more people. And good MT connections between centres are vital.

Some density increases around these centres would certainly be necessary, but I don't see why that wouldn't be possible.

[Post still not finished!!!

[Blue_Copper]

Penrith is its only city......st marys is a penrith centre ...mt duitt is Blacktowns (and they can keep it). Penrith would be able to serve with out the help of sydney there are more then 4 major work sites alone at the moment. there are 3 new Penrith suburbs being created now and my home town "londonderry" has its own sus-suburb "Richmond Park" ....why they called it Richmond" park and noe Penrith or Londonderry park i dont know.

[cammo2004]

Having been out that way for the first time ever last year, I'm inclined to agree with the train of thought that Penrith is its own city, or at least that it has the potential to become so. Those suburbs out there have more the feel of a country town (much like what I've seen of Brisbane's suburbs :runaway: ) than of being part of the economic powerhouse of Australia. Sydney is the Australian economy. Melbourne (despite it being the next biggest city) isn't really even close (one look at the skyscraper count is enough to grasp that).

[Blue_Copper]

its interesting to find that the Penrith area has every kinda of suburb that a city would have too.

[wowsim]

Having been out that way for the first time ever last year, I'm inclined to agree with the train of thought that Penrith is its own city, or at least that it has the potential to become so. Those suburbs out there have more the feel of a country town (much like what I've seen of Brisbane's suburbs :runaway: ) than of being part of the economic powerhouse of Australia. Sydney is the Australian economy. Melbourne (despite it being the next biggest city) isn't really even close (one look at the skyscraper count is enough to grasp that).

Well considering that Melbourne's manufacturing, automotive, aerospace and food( Victoria alone accounts for 13% of all globally traded dairy manufactured product.) industries are the largest in Australia, and that Melbourne handles about 35% of all freight into the country, i would question the "melbourne isnt really even close" statement. And unlike business in the financial services industry, where sydney is undoubtedly more important and larger, the manufacturing industry requires not skyscrapers, but vast cheap flat land for production, ie pretty much everything west of Melbourne's CBD.

Also currently Victoria is driving the national growth rate with the state growth rate at 3.7% and climbing, compared to NSW's 2% and falling. (although both QLD's and WA's growth rates are both higher than Victoria's)

[cammo2004]

Well considering that Melbourne's manufacturing, automotive, aerospace and food( Victoria alone accounts for 13% of all globally traded dairy manufactured product.) industries are the largest in Australia, and that Melbourne handles about 35% of all freight into the country, i would question the "melbourne isnt really even close" statement. And unlike business in the financial services industry, where sydney is undoubtedly more important and larger, the manufacturing industry requires not skyscrapers, but vast cheap flat land for production, ie pretty much everything west of Melbourne's CBD.

Also currently Victoria is driving the national growth rate with the state growth rate at 3.7% and climbing, compared to NSW's 2% and falling. (although both QLD's and WA's growth rates are both higher than Victoria's)

Well, what I mean about that was that Sydney is seen as such. I'm not saying Melbourne isn't important (quite the contrary). I wasn't aware of there being such a large manufacturing presence down there, although now that I think about it, it's not that surprising.

QLD is growing so fast it's not funny. You only have to look at the skyline of the Gold Coast to know that (there are an awful lot of cranes up there at the moment - not that it's a bad thing). They really have to think about getting better MT links in up there, although I must say I was impressed with CityTrain.

I won't argue the fact that Sydney's shifting away from the freight role. We're happy to shift that elsewhere.

The main reason we're not going so well up here in NSW is that we've got a state government that really doesn't care about it's constituents, and seems to do nothing except what benefits them.

[greynurse]

The problem with just building holiday apartments like the Gold coast is that they dont produce anything to export and are subject to the whims of tourism ,
if we dont start exporting a hell of a lot more we will be in the ****.

[wowsim]

Sydney has never been the major freight terminal in Australia.

I would totally agree that Sydney's problems are Governmental. I lived in Sydney from 1995-2003, I consider myself to have grown up there....In that time it never ceased to amaze the short-sightedness of the government in investing in infrastructure. It is literally killing Sydney, things like the M2 which is only 7 years old but is already congested because it was built with only 2 lanes each way???!! and its a toll road!!! the entire north-west is without public transport (i mean to get from castle hill to say macquarie university you need to take 2 buses and a train! for about a 15km journey!), so much of the city's arterial roads are a complete farce when compared to the other capital cities'. I mean its ridiculous that major arterial roads have to have their inbound and outbound lanes adjusted in peak times because they only have 4 or 5 lanes to work with. That it would take me longer to get from Castle Hill to the City in peak hour than it takes me to get from Geelong to Melbourne CBD is a real eye opener.

anyway just my 2c

[SinCity]

Personally, I would like to see more emphasis placed on other NSW cities.

I would like more attention paid to Newcastle. This city has a fine location and is basically what Sydney was in the 1930s. If they focus on Newcastle then it would alieviate much of the stress on Sydney.

As for Sydney, its time to consolidate what we have and improve on things. For instance, Parramatta road is wasted potential. This could have beautiful apartments its full length and also serviced by decent public transport, but the whole length of it is wasted on shitty caryards, rundown industries and similar.

The same could be done for the Princess highway leading south from the CBD. There is plenty of room for growth in the city itself without greenfield development. Like people say, the government needs to use its brains and more initiative.

[zulu69]

Personally, I would like to see more emphasis placed on other NSW cities.

I would like more attention paid to Newcastle. This city has a fine location and is basically what Sydney was in the 1930s. If they focus on Newcastle then it would alieviate much of the stress on Sydney.

As for Sydney, its time to consolidate what we have and improve on things. For instance, Parramatta road is wasted potential. This could have beautiful apartments its full length and also serviced by decent public transport, but the whole length of it is wasted on shitty caryards, rundown industries and similar.

The same could be done for the Princess highway leading south from the CBD. There is plenty of room for growth in the city itself without greenfield development. Like people say, the government needs to use its brains and more initiative.

^ Well the recent closure of many porting sights in Sydney are being compenstated and shifted up to Newcastle, so they are shifting some focus on Newcastle. Last time i was up there someone told me that Newcastle is(was?) the 2nd busiest port in the British commonwealth, can someone verify this *cough* Cul *cough*

As for Parramatta, i couldnt agree more, but there are definately a lot of new, stylish apartments being built, its just that Parra is so long that it just seems that it is still just crap. Last time i drove past (a couple of days ago), i was pleasantly suprised by the number of new and U/C are actually going up. Hopefully in 5 years it will cover most of Parra road.

[Randwicked]

Too bad that closing the rail link is going to kill downtown Newcastle.

[GMAC]

As an outsider looking in I would have to say that the main problem down there is that NSW in general seems to be very Sydneycentric and while this attitude contributes to what has made Sydney one of the most beautiful cities in the world, it doesnt really benefit the rest of the state. Obviously Sydney is going through what many of our capital cities are going through but on a larger scale and I think trying to shift focus and certain industries to other areas of the state may assist with the problem.

Although a little bit further away I would have thought Goulburn would have been an ideal location for a large population centre with possibly the only fallback being less water resources. A big advantage that it has is space, unlike all other possiblilties mentioned there are no real geographic boundaries, its not that far from Sydney, Canberra is around the corner, its on the way to Melbourne, is well serviced, and is only a high speed rail connection away from a possible population boom.

Just a thought.....

Im down there for work next week and will cover the whole Sydney basin and down to Canberra in my travels and will post from an outsiders point of view next week.

[cammo2004]

Too bad that closing the rail link is going to kill downtown Newcastle.

Yes, that move by the government was rather tactless. Newcastle is a city that has potential. It just needs a bit of a clean-up.