do you have any proof Musraff will recodnize isreal? And do you have any proof most pakistan's support isreal? give my any proof like polls, newspaper articles, any thing. some how i seriously doubt that.
offcourse because your a banned incarnation of Zuhahmed and you will be banned anyway so i wont reply i already posted it use the search feature

do you have any proof Musraff will recodnize isreal? And do you have any proof most pakistan's support isreal? give my any proof like polls, newspaper articles, any thing. some how i seriously doubt that.
offcourse because your a banned incarnation of Zuhahmed and you will be banned anyway so i wont reply i already posted it use the search feature

LOL, give it a rest... not everyone can agree :)

My gosh! I can feel hypocrisy from both sides! Do you want to tell me that Pakistanis love Israelis?

This is going to be the biggest lie in history. If an Israeli person went to Pakistan you better say bbye for his life! They will be eaten alive!


Not because 2 or 5 people in the forum say we love you that means that you are welcome. Maybe you are welcome to their homes but not their country.

I mean in mosques you pray that God free Palestine from Israel and you go and invite the people they you pray against.

So funny how you love or hate a country because presidents are meeting in secret or because they support the enemy of Pakistan (India).

My gosh! I can feel hypocrisy from both sides! Do you want to tell me that Pakistanis love Israelis?

We have nothing against them...and they have nothing against us. What seems to be the problem? Israel and Pakistan were the only two nations created over the basis of religion; infact a certain sect of people living in one of our provinces are said to be one of the decendents of the 7 tribes of Israel. We go back...a long way back! Turkey is another country we have had relations with for a LONG time. If we have no problems with them...I don't see why we should have any problem recognizing them!

This is going to be the biggest lie in history. If an Israeli person went to Pakistan you better say bbye for his life! They will be eaten alive!

Says who? You'd be honestly surprised how many people would walk up and shake his/her hand! Believe me; just because our people hate the government in the west dosen't mean we hate the people in the west.

Not because 2 or 5 people in the forum say we love you that means that you are welcome. Maybe you are welcome to their homes but not their country.

Everyone is welcome in our country...of course there will be people who have radical thinkings but what country dosen't?

I mean in mosques you pray that God free Palestine from Israel and you go and invite the people they you pray against.

We pray for peace actually...learn some Urdu my friend.

So funny how you love or hate a country because presidents are meeting in secret or because they support the enemy of Pakistan (India).

It's not a matter of love and hate...they have nothing against us so why should we? It's in both of our national interests...so why not?

Does Israel have nuclear weapons ?

Yeah^ they do, but they don't want anyone else in the region to have them. That's why it would be very likely that Israel will be the first to attack an Islamic nation with a nuclear warhead in the near future. Israel is based on hipocracy, genocide, and lies. That's also what we're likely to see more of from them.....unfortunately.

And what are you based on? ignorance? because you obviously lack alot of knowledge about Israel and Israelis....

Well RoM, please educate me on the creation of Israel and its continuous abuse and occupation of Palestinian land. What I'd really like to hear from any Israeli is a justification for the thousands of deaths caused by this conflict on both sides(mainly Palestinian) and if the occupation and theft of a land that has no proven tie to the Israelies was really worth all the troubles that it has caused, and that it will cause. I don't know what your teachers teach you at your Israeli schools and how the majority of your population believes in lies and are fooled by your government so easily. It must be because your government has constantly submerged its own people in propaganda of the "terrorist Palestinians who are trying to steal the land that we (the Israelies) have worked so hard to build and establish ourselves in." It is infact very, very sad that a whole nation has been brainwashed by the belief that they are constantly threatened and what a life that must be to live! It is sad to see that Israel has always to prepare its youth for war and aggression and not for peace. It is unfortunate that people like you, RoM, have to sacrifice so much in order to make yourselves believe that you are the ones who are right, and everyone around you is wrong. Those who look at the situation in Israel and Palestine can see that both sides have their faults. One side are angered by the robbery of their rights, their land, their religion and culture. The other side claim that they have suffered much from the Holocaust and that this land is the only thing that makes up for their suffering. The Jews of Israel have suffered, yes, but that in no way gives them the right to make others suffer as they have suffered in exactly the same ways! It should be the Jews, who have lived through the Holocaust, to be respobsible to make sure that it never happens again but unfortunately, it is at their hands that we are witnessing the second holocaust, the Holocaust of the Palestinians.

Well RoM, please educate me on the creation of Israel and its continuous abuse and occupation of Palestinian land. What I'd really like to hear from any Israeli is a justification for the thousands of deaths caused by this conflict on both sides(mainly Palestinian) and if the occupation and theft of a land that has no proven tie to the Israelies was really worth all the troubles that it has caused, and that it will cause. I don't know what your teachers teach you at your Israeli schools and how the majority of your population believes in lies and are fooled by your government so easily. It must be because your government has constantly submerged its own people in propaganda of the "terrorist Palestinians who are trying to steal the land that we (the Israelies) have worked so hard to build and establish ourselves in." It is infact very, very sad that a whole nation has been brainwashed by the belief that they are constantly threatened and what a life that must be to live! It is sad to see that Israel has always to prepare its youth for war and aggression and not for peace. It is unfortunate that people like you, RoM, have to sacrifice so much in order to make yourselves believe that you are the ones who are right, and everyone around you is wrong. Those who look at the situation in Israel and Palestine can see that both sides have their faults. One side are angered by the robbery of their rights, their land, their religion and culture. The other side claim that they have suffered much from the Holocaust and that this land is the only thing that makes up for their suffering. The Jews of Israel have suffered, yes, but that in no way gives them the right to make others suffer as they have suffered in exactly the same ways! It should be the Jews, who have lived through the Holocaust, to be respobsible to make sure that it never happens again but unfortunately, it is at their hands that we are witnessing the second holocaust, the Holocaust of the Palestinians.
It is really too bad you are so ignorant. Israel does not abuse the Palestinians. The Arabs, including the Plalestinians, intend to destroy Israel. As long as that is the case, Israel is within it rights to do whatever, WHATEVER, they need to do to stop the terrorist Arabs. Israelis the land of the Jewish people. If Arabs want to to try to deny it, let them try. But do not blame the Jewish people for the results of what happens to the Arabs. So, untill, the Arabs recognize Israel's right to exist, whatever happens to them while they try to kill Jews is justified. If you have something to say about that, please do. I welcome your idiotic and biased statements. Please, say something.

Well RoM, please educate me on the creation of Israel and its continuous abuse and occupation of Palestinian land. What I'd really like to hear from any Israeli is a justification for the thousands of deaths caused by this conflict on both sides(mainly Palestinian) and if the occupation and theft of a land that has no proven tie to the Israelies was really worth all the troubles that it has caused, and that it will cause. I don't know what your teachers teach you at your Israeli schools and how the majority of your population believes in lies and are fooled by your government so easily. It must be because your government has constantly submerged its own people in propaganda of the "terrorist Palestinians who are trying to steal the land that we (the Israelies) have worked so hard to build and establish ourselves in." It is infact very, very sad that a whole nation has been brainwashed by the belief that they are constantly threatened and what a life that must be to live! It is sad to see that Israel has always to prepare its youth for war and aggression and not for peace. It is unfortunate that people like you, RoM, have to sacrifice so much in order to make yourselves believe that you are the ones who are right, and everyone around you is wrong. Those who look at the situation in Israel and Palestine can see that both sides have their faults. One side are angered by the robbery of their rights, their land, their religion and culture. The other side claim that they have suffered much from the Holocaust and that this land is the only thing that makes up for their suffering. The Jews of Israel have suffered, yes, but that in no way gives them the right to make others suffer as they have suffered in exactly the same ways! It should be the Jews, who have lived through the Holocaust, to be respobsible to make sure that it never happens again but unfortunately, it is at their hands that we are witnessing the second holocaust, the Holocaust of the Palestinians.

You seem to have a very selective memory in which you only mention some of the past happenings instead of looking at the big picture, you are stating ONLY whats comfortable to you in order to make the big picture look somehwat friendly of your side. you forgot to mention the on going aggression from the arab side, the one which attacked Israel and tried to erase Israel of the map on its first day of the existance and later on in its history, the same arabs which today kills thousands in suicide attacks and try to justify it by waving the flag of some nation which they invented after the 67 war. Suicide attacks are not freedom fighters, they are cold blooded murders with NO legitimacy of any kind.

you guys are offtopic its about Iran and Isreal not the PLO and Isreal


Iran will lose hands down

Pakistan urges Iran to end N-dispute

DAVOS, Jan 30: Pakistan is exerting behind the scenes pressure on Iran to compromise in its dispute with Europe and the United States over its nuclear programme, Pakistani diplomatic sources say.

Prime Minister Shaukat Aziz and Foreign Minister Khurshid Kasuri passed on their concerns during a meeting at the weekend with Iranian Foreign Minister Kamal Kharazi. Mr Kasuri, for his part, said Pakistan supported negotiations led by Britain, France and Germany, to reach a lasting deal that would allay US charges that Iran is covertly developing nuclear weapons.

"We feel the role the (EU three) are playing is positive, because we feel that a peaceful resolution to this dispute is highly desirable," Mr Kasuri told AFP on the margins of the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland.

"Being their neighbours, and already with the Iraq situation being what it is, we wouldn't want another turmoil on our border," he said. "We paid a big price" in Afghanistan. "We don't want a similar destabilisation on our border again, so we have a vested interest in a peaceful resolution of this dispute."

Pakistan is worried about a spike in tensions on its western border, after becoming embroiled in the conflict in Afghanistan on its eastern side. The sources said the ministers "tried to convey the European position" to Kharazi during Friday's meeting.

Pakistani officials say that Tehran has been warned "bluntly, bordering on rudeness," of their concerns and urged "not to make the mistake" of ignoring the Europeans. "We have not minced our words," a diplomatic source said.

The UN atomic energy agency has been investigating Iran for two years. US President George W. Bush warned earlier this month that he would not rule out using military action if European diplomacy fails to secure Iran's agreement not to seek nuclear weapons.

Iran has suspended uranium enrichment, the key process that makes fuel for nuclear reactors but also the explosive core of atomic bombs, under an accord clinched by the EU three in November.

Talks between the trio and Tehran on a more comprehensive plan that would include economic ties are continuing, amid reports that the bloc has hardened its stance to urge Iran to dismantle its nuclear fuel programme totally.

Underlining the complexities, Iran's supreme leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei warned the EU three on Saturday to take the negotiations seriously, threatening otherwise to reconsider what the IAEA has said is "good cooperation."

"We were recently in Brussels and we had lengthy discussions on the entire regional situation" with EU leaders, Kasuri said, alluding to a Jan 24-26 visit by a Pakistani delegation led by Mr Shaukat Aziz. "We support the European approach."

"We have very good relations with Iran," he went on. "We have been telling our Iranian friends of the concerns of the international community, but they themselves are aware of it. We can't play a bigger role."

Nevertheless, Tehran's top nuclear negotiator, Hasan Rowhani, told Iran's Mehr news agency on Saturday that "under no circumstances" would it give up uranium enrichment for peaceful purposes.

He said negotiators "know that Iran is firm on its decisions and I do not think the Europeans want the negotiations to reach a dead end." Earlier this month, Pakistan denied a report in a US magazine that it was helping US special forces target suspected weapons sites in Iran for possible air strikes.


THEY DONT LISTEN SO THEY CAN PREPARE TO DIG THIER GRAVE! :)

Iran wont threat Isreal without a reason
The UN Security Council declared that Israel has withdrawn completely from Lebanon. They stated that "Sheba Farms" was not part of Lebanon. Yet Iran and Hezbolla continue their terrorism. A UN representative said that the UN expects Iran and Hezbolla to continue fighting regardless of the facts.

Abbas has to struggle with Hezbolla and Iran so that those 2 stop destabalizing the region while Abbas negotiates with Israel. Yet Iran and Hezbolla have recently offered up to $100,000 for suicide murderes in Israel even though Abbas, the elected leader of the Palestinians, has declared that fighting should stop.

Clearly Iran is a destabalizing force in the region. They wil cause havoc regardless of what Israel does. Iran is the greatest obstacle to any settlement between Israel and the Palestinians. There may not even be someone else who is even close to being as destabalizing as Iran.

It's written in the Iranian constitution to destroy the jewish state, a few in their government have even suggested it. That's the only reason they seem to think they need.

If Sheba farms is not part of Lebanon, then it's Syria, and Israel shouldn't be occupying parts of that country either.

Judging from your comments, it seems to me that you do not have much knowledge of the Iranian military capabilities. Israel would have no chance against Iran in a war without the help of the U.S.

Fortunately, they have our unconditional support.

Numerical superiority-wise Iran obviously has an advantage in conventional ground forces, but an Iranian invasion of Israel is not even plausible. What exactly would Iran do? March it's forces through Iraq (where 150,000 US soldiers happen to be) on through Jordan or Syria and then Israel?? Or maybe they would launch a massive amphibious assault on Eilat?? Please. If there ever was a war it would all be based around aerial forces and missile technology, both of which Israel has an undeniable technological superiority. If it came down to nukes, Iran may wipe Israel off the map if it has the capability of delivering them but it would end up destroyed in the process. The real question is whether MAD doctrine would actually apply to the mad mullahs.

if you believe in Iran and N. Korea launching nuclear weapons all over the place

you have to ask yourself the question

of whether the people responsible for launching the nuclear missiles in Iran and N. Korea believe in suicide.

if you believe in Iran and N. Korea launching nuclear weapons all over the place

you have to ask yourself the question

of whether the people responsible for launching the nuclear missiles in Iran and N. Korea believe in suicide.

That was pretty much the point of my last post, and unfortunately as evidenced by what just happened in Tel Aviv a couple of hours ago many people in the region obviously think suicide is an effective weapon to achieve their cause. Unfortunately, its fairly obvious that we won't be hearing Tehran condemning the latest suicide bombing. In fact it wouldn't be all that shocking to see the guy get a street named after him.

I heard from some Isreali that Minister of Defense for Israel is an Iranian. Is this true?

i believe nuclear attacks by non-state actors are very possible, but I think that it very unlikely that state governments will order nuclear attacks.

there may be certain individuals within state governments who may be crazy enough to order an attack, but what are chances that those who actually push the buttons on the device will follow the order?

if kim jong il, on his deathbed orders a nuclear strike against america, do u think the n. korean generals would be crazy enough to follow his orders?

if kim jong il, on his deathbed orders a nuclear strike against america, do u think the n. korean generals would be crazy enough to follow his orders?

Obviously I would hope not, but who knows.

I would not worry too much about idle saber rattling from Iran. If Iran were stupid enough to attack Israel in such a manner, we'd bomb their ass further back into the Stone Age that they currently inhabit.

Because this will never happen, it would be more productive to have some dialogue with Iran. Militarily, they would not stand a chance.

I heard from some Isreali that Minister of Defense for Israel is an Iranian. Is this true?

the Israeli President is Iranian
the Israeli Defence Minister is Iranian
and the new army chief of stuff is Iranian...

that completes the Iranian take over....

Is it just me or am I the only person that gets completely pissed off by all the brainwashing in the Muslim world against Israel? Lack of democracy? Must be the Jews' fault. Shit poor economies? Must be the Jews' fault.

The Arab-Israeli conflict is being used by chicken shit despotic Arabic tyrants who commit MANY, MANY more human right abuses than anything the Israelis would even dream of doing. When the oil runs out, that part of the world is going to descend into a fiery hell hole.

I am sorry to take such a harsh tone. But enough with being politically correct. There is seriously something wrong with that cultural mentality that is destroying a once vibrant Islamic civilization.

Israel attacking Iran would be the worst thing Israel could do. Im not talking about Military wise, who knows who would win.

But, an Israeli attack on Iran would give the Mullahs a longer life, this who nuclear issue is brilliantly worked out by the mullahs. They know that the Iranian people see this as a matter of national pride, Iranians connect the nuclear issue with the oil nationalisation of Dr Mossadeq, which was ruthlesly crushed by the US, and so any foreign attempt to stop Iranian nuclear ambitions will stoke the strong nationalist sentiments in Iran which who will then rally behind the Mullahs and give them the much needed boost they are after.

Israel isnt an enemy in the eyes of the Iranian people, but if it attacked Iran, suddenly it will become one.

I would not worry too much about idle saber rattling from Iran. If Iran were stupid enough to attack Israel in such a manner, we'd bomb their ass further back into the Stone Age that they currently inhabit.

Because this will never happen, it would be more productive to have some dialogue with Iran. Militarily, they would not stand a chance.

Someday another nation will bomb your ass into pieces, my American friend, you can be sure about that!!!

Someday another nation will bomb your ass into pieces, my American friend, you can be sure about that!!!

:weirdo:

"Another" suggests that we were already bombed to pieces. Funny, I never covered that in any of MY American history classes. Which country bombed our asses first? :hahaha:

I am making a statement of fact. If Iran were stupid enough to bomb Israel, Iran would be bombed into submission.

:weirdo:

"Another" suggests that we were already bombed to pieces. Funny, I never covered that in any of MY American history classes. Which country bombed our asses first? :hahaha:

I am making a statement of fact. If Iran were stupid enough to bomb Israel, Iran would be bombed into submission.


No :weirdo: China or India will bomb your ass into pieces in a couple of decades. Don't think you are God, you aren't, all great nations will decline at some point :weirdo:

Lets just hope that nobodies grandchildren will be bombed.

No :weirdo: China or India will bomb your ass into pieces in a couple of decades. Don't think you are God, you aren't, all great nations will decline at some point :weirdo:

:hahaha:

Of course every power declines. But I fail to see how it would be in India's or China's interest to destroy, even if the US loses its position of superpower, one of the world's lucrative markets for their products.

I agree with Persianguy. Let's hope for no bombings at all.

Indeed, we are to important to the world's economy. If they wanted to bomb our asses (which they couldn't) they would severely ruin their economy, because the world economy pretty much rolls along with the US economy.

The US military is matched by no one. If you think any body matches them you are living in a dream world.

Indeed, we are to important to the world's economy. If they wanted to bomb our asses (which they couldn't) they would severely ruin their economy, because the world economy pretty much rolls along with the US economy.

The US military is matched by no one. If you think any body matches them you are living in a dream world.

I'm talking about 30 years later, China will be a fully developed, strong nation by then, you can't change this :laugh: You can't impose your policies to other nations by that time :bleh: Keep dreaming, but I agree there should be no war!!

^ Wow, u have no clue

The world economy has evolved to the point where "bombing another nation's ass into pieces" isn't the answer especially among large successful states. Why would China want to destroy the US? In 30 years would they be in any position militarily to do so w/their aging population becoming more of a burden on their system while millions still live in poverty. The world has changed and it's in nobodys interest to disrupt the global economy on such a large scale. I always smirk too when I see that someone obviously despises the US role as sole superpower. What, would u prefer China w/its stellar human rights record to lead the world? Or maybe Hitler's Germany would have been the better choice?

More on point now. Isreal is one of the few nations that I truly respect. I read through these posts and I agree w/the majority of things 'everythingisgone' has said. Israel deserves to have a peaceful resolution to all of this. They have suffered enough.

I hope that Iran collapses on itself and no military action will be necessary there. If they continue to seek nuclear weaponry, tho, somebody will have to do something to remove that threat. Is it a good idea to have nuclear bombs in the hands of an Iranian militia that promises to kill millions of people? The world should be outraged by these people over there. The Iranian people need to demand more for themselves and from their leadership.

If Sheba farms is not part of Lebanon, then it's Syria, and Israel shouldn't be occupying parts of that country either.
First, the terrorists in Lebanon claim it is Lebanese territory. That is their pretext for continuing their terrorism. Second, you state your claim as if it is fact, and it is not. Third, the puppet regime in Lebanon is legally responsible to deploy to their borders, but they do not. If Sheba is not part of Lebanon, the Lebanese should stop the terrorism there. These things are very clear and easy to understand by a non-bigot. Do you understand it?

Can you care to explain what kind of terrorism lebanon is doing on sheba farms?

THe point is that Israel and its neocon master are itching badly in their posterior knowing fully that they cannot put their hand in the hornet's nest of Iran and hizbullah w/o getting badly stung!


ISrael is even more preturbed that it cannot take out the Iranian program like Iraq's since it is widespread and as admitted, many facilities are underground (sort of like running a secret parallel nuclear program) and israel or even US can't really do something concrete about it!


And I easily bet that this harrari assasination has the fingerprints of neocons/mossad on it since Syria (which already is in so much trouble) would be that stupid to stir another hornet's nest in one of their "allies"!!!


I would really want to see how Israel ends up dealing with Iran!

Can you care to explain what kind of terrorism lebanon is doing on sheba farms?

I would really want to see how Israel ends up dealing with Iran!
Syria and their puppet government in Lebanon tacitly support Hezbolla terrorism in Lebanon. Hezbolla publicly uses the pretense that they are present because Israel has not removed its troops from "Lebanon" because Israel maintains a presence at Sheba Farms. Yet the UN has certified that Israel has no troops in lebanon and that Sheba is not on Lebanese soil at all. Lebanon is obligated to deploy its troops to their borders, yet they do not because they are puppets of the dictator in Damascus. The attacks that are carried out against Israel, and/or planned from Hezbolla along the Israeli border, are the responsibility of Lebanon to stop. Iran, Syria, Lebanon and Hezbolla all share responsibility for the ongoing terrorism. These groups are intent on derailing any progress between Abbas and Israel. Their implicit and sometimes explicit objectives are the destrucion of Israel.

Syria and their puppet government in Lebanon tacitly support Hezbolla terrorism in Lebanon. Hezbolla publicly uses the pretense that they are present because Israel has not removed its troops from "Lebanon" because Israel maintains a presence at Sheba Farms. Yet the UN has certified that Israel has no troops in lebanon and that Sheba is not on Lebanese soil at all. Lebanon is obligated to deploy its troops to their borders, yet they do not because they are puppets of the dictator in Damascus. The attacks that are carried out against Israel, and/or planned from Hezbolla along the Israeli border, are the responsibility of Lebanon to stop. Iran, Syria, Lebanon and Hezbolla all share responsibility for the ongoing terrorism. These groups are intent on derailing any progress between Abbas and Israel. Their implicit and sometimes explicit objectives are the destrucion of Israel.

Lebanon or not, it is still not Israeli territory!

So :runaway:

Marshal = :weird:

Lebanon or not, it is still not Israeli territory!

So :runaway:
However, even if you are correct, what does that have to do with the issue? It is either Israeli territory or Syrian. The Syrians lost quite alot of territory to Israel during its onslaughts against Israel. But Hezbolla's pretext to continued aggression is that Sheba is Lebanese territory. If it is not Lebanese territory, where is their army that should be deployed up to its borders.

But like it or not, Hezbollah defeated IDF so that counts for something..

Btw, I have read about both wars.. 1967 was a bad year for Arabs as not many of their a/c took off from the ground otherwise the super tu16s and Il's would surely make IDF run for what it's worth.. Even some planes that did take off shot several israeli jets down so egyptians weren't totally dumb..

In fact, the motion of superior israelis ended up nearly destroying israel i n1973 if it weren't for the direct intervention of US.. Even in israli estimates, about 280-300 a/cs were shot down which pretty much was almost all of the airforce or atleast 80-90%!

But like it or not, Hezbollah defeated IDF so that counts for something..

Btw, I have read about both wars.. 1967 was a bad year for Arabs as not many of their a/c took off from the ground otherwise the super tu16s and Il's would surely make IDF run for what it's worth.. Even some planes that did take off shot several israeli jets down so egyptians weren't totally dumb..

In fact, the motion of superior israelis ended up nearly destroying israel i n1973 if it weren't for the direct intervention of US.. Even in israli estimates, about 280-300 a/cs were shot down which pretty much was almost all of the airforce or atleast 80-90%!
Next time you read about the wars, try to understand what you read. Your comment about Hezbolla is humorous, wrong, but humorous. You comment about direct US intervention is unsupportable. Had the US not intervened, Israel could have destroyed the Eqyptian army, which was rounded up and barefoot in the desert. And Israel would have entered Damascus to rid the world of their dictator terrorist leader. Had it not been for US intervention, Israel would never have let Egypt cross the Suez into israel to begin with. Get your facts straight.

Are you talking about the "isreali victory" in the 1973 war????

Your statements are laughable and smell of a typical right-wing zionist (nothing less)..


Many Israelis I talked to are pissed at you people for sending them to war (when they are against it in the first place) while you, the real reasons, don't do jack hiding behind your Torah studies..


I can easily bet that weren't it for the Paletinian intifada (and hence israeli unity), isrealis would otherwise be at the throats of each other being so many sectarian, ethnic, class differences..

Your comment about Hezbolla is humorous, wrong, but humorous.

Even underhand opinion of the israeli armed forces' generals is that hezbollah defeated IDF!

This is what they say is providing the "spark" that ignited the intifada.. If israel wasn't defeated, then why did it leave in such a hurry (remember a retreating army is most at risk of casualities) and abandoned/disbanded the SLA??

What are you talking about Marshal, you make no sense in your posts whatsoever! When exactly did hezbollah "defeat" Israel?

And about the Israeli - Arab wars...Israel, in both 1967 and 1973, could have destroyed Egypt and Syria (even more so than they did) had it not been for the USA and the USSR stepping in and stopping Israel. Israel was already passed the Sinai and about one kilometer away from Cairo when the UN cease fire was imposed, and it was well East of the Golan heights. Israel could have destroyed both Cairo and Damascus while the arabs didnt even come near Tel Aviv. Total losses on the arab side were about 19,000 while the Israeli losses amounted to about 4,000. The war, while taking Israel by surprise being on the holiest day of the Jewish calender was still a clear cut victory by Israel. Egypt and Syria should be thankful that the US and USSR stepped in when they did.

Even underhand opinion of the israeli armed forces' generals is that hezbollah defeated IDF!

This is what they say is providing the "spark" that ignited the intifada.. If israel wasn't defeated, then why did it leave in such a hurry (remember a retreating army is most at risk of casualities) and abandoned/disbanded the SLA??
You misinterpret a tactical error for an operational one.

What are you talking about Marshal, you make no sense in your posts whatsoever! When exactly did hezbollah "defeat" Israel?

And about the Israeli - Arab wars...Israel, in both 1967 and 1973, could have destroyed Egypt and Syria (even more so than they did) had it not been for the USA and the USSR stepping in and stopping Israel. Israel was already passed the Sinai and about one kilometer away from Cairo when the UN cease fire was imposed, and it was well East of the Golan heights. Israel could have destroyed both Cairo and Damascus while the arabs didnt even come near Tel Aviv. Total losses on the arab side were about 19,000 while the Israeli losses amounted to about 4,000. The war, while taking Israel by surprise being on the holiest day of the Jewish calender was still a clear cut victory by Israel. Egypt and Syria should be thankful that the US and USSR stepped in when they did.

Please don't lie about the 73 war!

It is a known fact that every 3 minutes US planes touched down in ISrael with supplies along with US navy that supplied at least 60-70 jets otherwise the Israeli airforce was totally destroyed...


Goldameir had asked egyptians for surrender documents even and Israel was thinking of nuking Egpyt, Syria, Jordan, Iraq etc. to get the point across (did they have the ability to do it is guessable since the af was *** and Egyptian SAMs weren't no joke but still US supplied weapons which was unmatched by Russians so in the end the supply war of US won)..

And about arab attack on a holiday, Israel attacked on the same premise between 7 and 8 am (around 7:45 am) against egyptian air bases since at that time egyptians took a "rest" hence the blitzkrieg was much successful..

As I said before, the jets that did take off did manage to down some israeli jets so we will never know what would've happened had Egypt had a round-a-clock policy of air patrols and its tu16s and il's had taken off...!

You misinterpret a tactical error for an operational one.

It is an operational defeat my friend that a stronger israel vacates against "inferior" Arabs (isn't that what you say)..

Arabs have their flaws but Don't be overnationalistic

Please don't lie about the 73 war!

It is a known fact that every 3 minutes US planes touched down in ISrael with supplies along with US navy that supplied at least 60-70 jets otherwise the Israeli airforce was totally destroyed...


Goldameir had asked egyptians for surrender documents even and Israel was thinking of nuking Egpyt, Syria, Jordan, Iraq etc. to get the point across (did they have the ability to do it is guessable since the af was *** and Egyptian SAMs weren't no joke but still US supplied weapons which was unmatched by Russians so in the end the supply war of US won)..

Maybe you should stop lying!

It's a known fact that for most of the war, the USA did not supply Israel with supplies. It's also a known fact that the only reason why the USA supplied ammunition to Israel at the end stages of the war was because the USSR and many arab nations (Algeria, Iraq, Saudi Arabia...) had provided weapons, including squadrons of jets and tanks, and reported nuclear war heads, to Egypt and Syria during the entire war. The USSR refused to support any cease fire agreement and continually supplied the arab nations with supplies, so the USA, at the end phase of the war, deemed it necessary to supply its ally with supplies of its own, because in case you didnt know, the USA and the USSR were fighting their own cold war at the time.

Just go and read your israelis' analysis!

You had lost the war..

Well at least now I know Im talking with someone who has no facts to back up any of his statements...because go talk with "your Israelis' analysis" is such a clear statement. By the way, Im not Israeli...

Wow... I've read this thread from the beginning to the end, and it was pathetic nearly from the first post to the last... Damn, 8 months of discussions full of hate, mistakes and blind excessive reactions...

How could this israelo-palestinian conflict be eased if we are not able to bring some peace in those forums!

I'm not judging anyone of you, I'm just sad...

Have a good night.

Peace. :sleepy:

Why is the muslim world hell bent on destroying others?
We have to live peacefully. Why is there so much hatred? I do not understand. This will be the reason for your downfall. If you want to prevent this from ever happening, change your views from the DARK AGES and look forward, which u are not

Why is the muslim world hell bent on destroying others?
We have to live peacefully. Why is there so much hatred? I do not understand. This will be the reason for your downfall. If you want to prevent this from ever happening, change your views from the DARK AGES and look forward, which u are not doing at the moment.

Who are you talking to 29???

As for hatred, it is all around in the Middle East!

Need I even mention the settlements and the israeli apartheid attitude towards palestinineans???

And that to say that this nation has gone through "holoucaust"??

It is an operational defeat my friend that a stronger israel vacates against "inferior" Arabs (isn't that what you say)..

Arabs have their flaws but Don't be overnationalistic
Don't fool yourself that I am your friend. You are illogical, biased and almost laughable. I have no need for friends like you.

Are you talking about the "isreali victory" in the 1973 war????

Your statements are laughable and smell of a typical right-wing zionist (nothing less)..


Many Israelis I talked to are pissed at you people for sending them to war (when they are against it in the first place) while you, the real reasons, don't do jack hiding behind your Torah studies..


I can easily bet that weren't it for the Paletinian intifada (and hence israeli unity), isrealis would otherwise be at the throats of each other being so many sectarian, ethnic, class differences..
Why do you hate so deeply and passionately? It is a terrible spiritual illness you are burdened with.

Sneh: Israeli military strike on Iran 'very last resort'

Ephraim Sneh, a member of the Knesset's Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee and a retired general, said on Sunday that Iran's pursuit of nuclear weapons is a threat to Israel's very existence, but said Israeli military action would be a last resort.

Sneh spoke after the London's Sunday Times reported Prime Minister Ariel Sharon's security cabinet gave "initial authorization" last month to a plan for an air and ground attack on Iran if diplomatic efforts do not halt the Islamic republic's nuclear program.

The newspaper reported that the Israel Defense Forces has built a model of Iran's Natanz uranium enrichment plant in order to practice assaults on the facility. Israel would reportedly make use of F-15 fighter planes and teams from the Israel Air Force's elite Shaldag unit in the attack.

According to the Sunday Times, the Israeli plans have been discussed with the United States who reportedly said they would not block an Israeli attack on Iran if international diplomatic efforts fail to halt the nuclear projects.

Sneh told Army Radio that the United States will play an important role in how the situation is resolved.

He added that Israel remains hopeful the international community will reach a diplomatic solution with the Islamic republic.

"The Iranian threat is an existential threat to the state Israel. Military action is the very last resort," he said. "We have to ensure that other steps, diplomatic steps are carried out first. Here the United States plays a leading role and I hope it will fill it."

IDF and government officials have repeatedly identified Iran as the greatest threat to Israel. They point to Iran's suspected pursuit of nuclear weapons, as well as its assistance to Hezbollah guerrillas in Lebanon and Palestinian militants who attack Israel.

Sneh, a legislator from the Labor Party, the junior member of Sharon's coalition government, did not confirm whether Israel already has plans in place to strike Iran.

Asked whether Israel has such plans, Vice Premier Shimon Peres said "I don't think so." Peres spoke as he entered the weekly cabinet meeting.

Iran vows to continue with nuclear program
Neither threats nor incentives will alter Iran's pursuit of its nuclear program, the Iranian Foreign Ministry said Saturday, defying new moves by the European Union and the United States to ensure Tehran never develops a nuclear bomb.

In a show of bluster and defiance, Foreign Ministry spokesman Hamid Reza Asefi rejected overtures from the West, saying Iran would not be influenced by external pressure. Iran maintains its nuclear program is solely for the peaceful pursuit of nuclear energy.

"Iran is determined to use peaceful nuclear technology and no pressure, incentive or threat can force Iran to give up its rights," state-run radio quoted Asefi as saying.

Washington recently agreed to drop its opposition to Iran's membership in the World Trade Organization and allow some sale of spare parts for civilian aircraft.

The move was in support of a European plan to offer Tehran economic incentives to give up any nuclear weapons ambitions.

Asefi rejected Washington's move. "Lifting some restrictions against Iran will not stop Iran from pursuing its rights," Asefi was quoted as saying.

Foreign Minister Silvan Shalom told Reuters on Friday that an Iranian nuclear bomb would be a "nightmare" for Israel and other countries.

"In our view they are very close, too close, to having the knowledge to develop this kind of bomb and that's why we should be in a hurry," Shalom said in an interview in Mexico.

Why do you hate so deeply and passionately? It is a terrible spiritual illness you are burdened with.

Well I don't have a taste for zionists and neocons who exploit religion, society, and politics for their own nefarious purposes..

MInd if I ask why do you hate the Nazis (if you do rite!)????

Sneh: Israeli military strike on Iran 'very last resort'

Ephraim Sneh, a member of the Knesset's Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee and a retired general, said on Sunday that Iran's pursuit of nuclear weapons is a threat to Israel's very existence, but said Israeli military action would be a last resort.

Sneh spoke after the London's Sunday Times reported Prime Minister Ariel Sharon's security cabinet gave "initial authorization" last month to a plan for an air and ground attack on Iran if diplomatic efforts do not halt the Islamic republic's nuclear program.

The newspaper reported that the Israel Defense Forces has built a model of Iran's Natanz uranium enrichment plant in order to practice assaults on the facility. Israel would reportedly make use of F-15 fighter planes and teams from the Israel Air Force's elite Shaldag unit in the attack.

According to the Sunday Times, the Israeli plans have been discussed with the United States who reportedly said they would not block an Israeli attack on Iran if international diplomatic efforts fail to halt the nuclear projects.

Sneh told Army Radio that the United States will play an important role in how the situation is resolved.

He added that Israel remains hopeful the international community will reach a diplomatic solution with the Islamic republic.

"The Iranian threat is an existential threat to the state Israel. Military action is the very last resort," he said. "We have to ensure that other steps, diplomatic steps are carried out first. Here the United States plays a leading role and I hope it will fill it."

IDF and government officials have repeatedly identified Iran as the greatest threat to Israel. They point to Iran's suspected pursuit of nuclear weapons, as well as its assistance to Hezbollah guerrillas in Lebanon and Palestinian militants who attack Israel.

Sneh, a legislator from the Labor Party, the junior member of Sharon's coalition government, did not confirm whether Israel already has plans in place to strike Iran.

Asked whether Israel has such plans, Vice Premier Shimon Peres said "I don't think so." Peres spoke as he entered the weekly cabinet meeting.

Iran vows to continue with nuclear program
Neither threats nor incentives will alter Iran's pursuit of its nuclear program, the Iranian Foreign Ministry said Saturday, defying new moves by the European Union and the United States to ensure Tehran never develops a nuclear bomb.

In a show of bluster and defiance, Foreign Ministry spokesman Hamid Reza Asefi rejected overtures from the West, saying Iran would not be influenced by external pressure. Iran maintains its nuclear program is solely for the peaceful pursuit of nuclear energy.

"Iran is determined to use peaceful nuclear technology and no pressure, incentive or threat can force Iran to give up its rights," state-run radio quoted Asefi as saying.

Washington recently agreed to drop its opposition to Iran's membership in the World Trade Organization and allow some sale of spare parts for civilian aircraft.

The move was in support of a European plan to offer Tehran economic incentives to give up any nuclear weapons ambitions.

Asefi rejected Washington's move. "Lifting some restrictions against Iran will not stop Iran from pursuing its rights," Asefi was quoted as saying.

Foreign Minister Silvan Shalom told Reuters on Friday that an Iranian nuclear bomb would be a "nightmare" for Israel and other countries.

"In our view they are very close, too close, to having the knowledge to develop this kind of bomb and that's why we should be in a hurry," Shalom said in an interview in Mexico.

Anyways, what can Israel do anyway if US, the hyperpower, is reluctant??

Maybe you know the location (or maybe not as I am sure Iran is running a parallel program underground..) of the nuke sites but still not only is Iran faraway but the main problem is that the program is in the heartland of Iran and very disperse.. I know Israel has solved the long-range problem plus it can base its jets in Iraq! but unlike Iraq in the past, the Iranian program will not go in one strike (surprise) and in that case Israel be ready for a Shahab (and probably cruise missiles for its allies if they attempt amphibious invasion) and Israel can't even survive one strike!

So now instead of calling me some Nazi, try to grow some brain!

I don't know why the silent majority in Israel has allowed so much leevay to the orthodox (unless the silent majority is violent and cruel itself?? ...._)??

Wow... I've read this thread from the beginning to the end


I didn't and I won't.

Well I don't have a taste for zionists and neocons who exploit religion, society, and politics for their own nefarious purposes..
You mean like President Bush?

MInd if I ask why do you hate the Nazis (if you do rite!)????
Well, let's see; people who hate as a basic principle of their beliefs, people who's hatred and loathing of others overcomes their own sense of preservation and well being, people who design intricate methods for the destruction of huge masses of humanity, and the list goes on and on. But I never said I hated nazis. But it is certainly easy to do so. They are a very sick people. They have chosen a path in life that has few, if any, redeeming qualities and suffer terrible spiritual illness.