Iran on Monday repeated its threat to "wipe Israel off the map" if Israel attacked the Islamic Republic's nuclear sites.

"The United States is showing off by threatening to use its wild dog, Israel," Revolutionary Guards Commander Seyed Masood Jazayeri was quoted as saying by the Iranian student news agency ISNA.

"They will not hesitate to strike Iran if they are capable of it. However, their threats to attack Iran's nuclear facilities cannot be realized. They are aware Tehran's reaction will be so harsh that Israel will be wiped off the face of the earth and US interests will be easily damaged," he warned.

The commander asserted that Iran would not initiate a conflict, but in retaliation to any attack has proved itself to be "harsh, assertive, hard-hitting and destructive," according to ISNA.

Israel and the US accuse Iran of trying to develop nuclear weapons. Iran says its nuclear program is meant for energy purposes.

Why should Israel attc Iran...? That would be one of the most rediculas things, Israel could do...If Iran should develop nuclear weapons, the USA shell attc it on their own!

By the way, how far is/was Israel involved in the current Iraq-War?

They attacked Iraq when it had similar plans.
An attack seems an entirely realistic possibility.

I wouldnt blame them either, Iran floats on a lake of oil, theres no way it needs nuclear energy.

The USA have oil too, what's the point in a nuclear program for them too?

Iran has the right to devellop nuclear weapons. And it will be better for world peace because of the M.A.D. doctrine.

Oil is dirty and polluting. Nuclear is mure cleaner and cheaper, there are many reasons to devellop a nuclear program for everyone.

Iran has the right to devellop nuclear weapons ... better for world peace because of the M.A.D. doctrine.

What's the MAD doctrine?

The M.A.D. (Mutual Assured Destruction)

Mutual assured destruction (MAD) is the doctrine of military strategy in which a full scale use of nuclear weapons by one of two opposing sides would result in the destruction of both the attacker and the defender.

The USA have oil too, what's the point in a nuclear program for them too?

Iran has the right to devellop nuclear weapons. And it will be better for world peace because of the M.A.D. doctrine.

Oil is dirty and polluting. Nuclear is mure cleaner and cheaper, there are many reasons to devellop a nuclear program for everyone.

I agree - if The US and other Countries have nuclear weapons why can't Iran. The key word here is "oil" .... The States would love a dispute, it will give them a reason to attack and get their dirty paws on more oil .... (excuse the pun)

[QUOTE=gandalf33]I agree - if The US and other Countries have nuclear weapons why can't Iran. The key word here is "oil" .... The States would love a dispute, it will give them a reason to attack and get their dirty paws on more oil .... (excuse the pun)[/QUOTE

It's all a conspiracy ! Run for the hills !!!

Iran on Monday repeated its threat to "wipe Israel off the map" if Israel attacked the Islamic Republic's nuclear sites.

lol, this is like saying canada will wipe the united states of the map. israel would annihlate iran even with out the use of nuclear weapons.

lol, this is like saying canada will wipe the united states of the map. israel would annihlate iran even with out the use of nuclear weapons.

That's what I'm talkin' about.

When Israel attacks Iran you could be sure that other muslim nations will join the war...so will the USA. And that would result in some kind of 3rd world war. (at least in the loss of uncountable human beings).

You´re talking like babies who don´t understand a shit. "OOOHHH....Israel has the bigger penis...It wipes off Iran...wow weapons. Let´s be trolls and think that´s the co0ler3st"

When Israel attacks Iran you could be sure that other muslim nations will join the war...so will the USA. And that would result in some kind of 3rd world war. (at least in the loss of uncountable human beings).

You´re talking like babies who don´t understand a shit. "OOOHHH....Israel has the bigger penis...It wipes off Iran...wow weapons. Let´s be trolls and think that´s the co0ler3st"

"coOler3st" ? Yep, that's definately what I was thinking.

Now back to the subject, when Israel destroyed Iraq's nuclear facilities in 1986 there was no war. Sure, Iraq fussed and fumed, but what could they do ? Israel would have destroyed them.

When Israel attacks Iran you could be sure that other muslim nations will join the war...so will the USA. And that would result in some kind of 3rd world war. (at least in the loss of uncountable human beings).

israel attacked iraqi nuclear facilities and no one retaliated. israel bombed lebanon and no one retaliated. the last time the arab world ganged up on israel, they got their asses handed to them in the six-day war. No WW3. the yom kippur war also saw israel defeat the arab world. and the soviet union was still around and actively supplying weapons to the arabs while the americans armed the israelis. Still no WW3. israel is probably among the top 5 most powerful countries in the world, they don't need the united states to jump in and help.


You´re talking like babies who don´t understand a shit. "OOOHHH....Israel has the bigger penis...It wipes off Iran...wow weapons. Let´s be trolls and think that´s the co0ler3st"

umm....yeah...

they don't need the united states to jump in and help.

Of course we do.
Israel seems a powerfull country because you look back and see wars like Yom Kippur and the 6-days, both wars shorter than one month (Yom Kippur was 19 days long).
Israel can manage a full scale war for that long, but not more, because it doesn't have enough supplies and money of its own for the entire military for more than that...
Because of that, maybe the most important goals of the IDF are (from the 'IDF doctrine'):
'Determine the outcome of war quickly and decisively',
and 'Transferring the battle to enemy's territory quickly'.

Of course they wouldn't win, but the concern is how much damage that Iranian regime could inflict before they lose.

There are those missiles they have that can reach Israel and US interests, especially since that patriot missile thingy hasn't seemed to have knocked out every single missile that is fired.

Of course they wouldn't win, but the concern is how much damage that Iranian regime could inflict before they lose.

There are those missiles they have that can reach Israel and US interests, especially since that patriot missile thingy hasn't seemed to have knocked out every single missile that is fired.

Not sure, but I think Israel has better missiles now. Though I don't doubt that Iran might inflict some damage.

ISrael has the arrow system which was proven as effective and much better than the American patriot...

1) Israel have probably the most skilful officers of the world in their armies. Also they are one of the best trained...

2) Israel has Arrows 2T anti-balistic missile systems which seems to be the best of the western origin SAMs.

3) Israel has the second strongest airforce (1st USA).

4) Israel demanded Turkish Airspace for bombing Iran according to some newspapers. :D

If I were the first mullah of IRan, I would shit my pants and stop that nuclear crap. :D

However, just to pretend like a little lovely kid for Turkey, they have started to make operations for PKK (kurdish rebels).

Turkey currently has an islamist government; however, they are under the control of USA very much. If Iran continues this nuclear program, I am sure Israel will attack them, and Turkey might give permission for using the airspace. If Turkey will not give the airspace, no problem, our Israeli friends will use the Syrian airspace since we know Syria has nothing concerned with airdefence. :D

Actually, I think Israel does not want Turkish airspace. They will use the Syrian one. THey have 102 F 16 Block 52+ and more than 20 F15 E for ground attack. It is definete that the F16 B52+ and F15 E ground attack fighters will be escorted and guarded by F15 A/B/C/D air superiority fighters. Israel has approximately 70 of them. Going to IRan will be easy. They will pass Syria easily. If a hard Syrian Airdefence waits for them while returning, there will be many F16' s and F15' s coming from Israel which will join the fighters coming from Iran and completely finish what has left of Syria.

I think Israel can easily use Syrian Airspace. Since we are both agreed, Iraqi airspace is American, only enemy airspace is Syrian one.

Now what do I desire as a Turkish? I expect Israel and other strong countries do not attack Iran and increase the popularity of mullahs which is decreasing now. I would wait, wait until the mullahs fall. BECAUSE when mullahs fall, Iran will be one of the best ally and friend of Israel and off course USA. Mullahs will fall, especially if Turkey enters EU. The enterence of Turkey to EU will increase the anti-radicalislamist thoughts and first victim will be mullahs in Iran.

If Iran is attacked, the people of Iran will turn their faces to mullahs and support them. Religion fanatism is much more dangerous than nuclear bombs, especially Turks and Israelis know it, because they are the real victims of terror.

Last note, it is an easy job for Israeli airforce for bombing the nuclear plant constructions in Iran, very easy job. I know their airforce, I do not know if it is the best BUT I AM SURE IDF/AF IS ONE OF THE BEST. Iran is just bluffing... They can not do anything.

BTW, I am personally against Nuclear Bombs. It is against humanity.

If I were the first mullah of IRan, I would shit my pants and stop that nuclear crap. :D


Wow, such a long posting but you managed not think for at least 30 seconds, did you?
That means: "If I were the first mullah of Iran I would shit my pants and develop nuclear crap as fast and as much as I can to have at least aynthing against israel's military superiority"
There is no conventional way Iran could defend itself against israel. Nuclear missiles are the only way to seriously have anything against the enemy.

Just imagine a professional boxer wants to beat the shit out of you. Next to you is a baseballbat. Now there are 2 options.
1.) You can take the bat and tell him better not to mess with you because now you can defend yourself...
2.) Or you can throw away the bat and lose every hope to get caries with your own teeth

What would you do?

3) That boxer can take the baseballbat from my hand and crack my skull. :D

3) That boxer can take the baseballbat from my hand and crack my skull. :D

Well, that's also possible :crazy:

Wow, such a long posting but you managed not think for at least 30 seconds, did you?
That means: "If I were the first mullah of Iran I would shit my pants and develop nuclear crap as fast and as much as I can to have at least aynthing against israel's military superiority"
There is no conventional way Iran could defend itself against israel. Nuclear missiles are the only way to seriously have anything against the enemy.

Just imagine a professional boxer wants to beat the shit out of you. Next to you is a baseballbat. Now there are 2 options.
1.) You can take the bat and tell him better not to mess with you because now you can defend yourself...
2.) Or you can throw away the bat and lose every hope to get caries with your own teeth

What would you do?

Following the same analogy, if you are the boxer with the bat and you see the other boxer trying to get a bat of his own, you'll do anything to make sure he stays bat-less ;) .
Furthermore, one of these boxers, although more powerful, has a sense of responsibility and restrain, while the other's sanity is somewhat questionable .

Following the same analogy, if you are the boxer with the bat and you see the other boxer trying to get a bat of his own, you'll do anything to make sure he stays bat-less ;) .

I know, otherwise it would be like saying israel should give their weapons away and let Iran become stronger. That would be the most stupid thing possible ;)

Following the same analogy, if you are the boxer with the bat and you see the other boxer trying to get a bat of his own, you'll do anything to make sure he stays bat-less ;) .
Furthermore, one of these boxers, although more powerful, has a sense of responsibility and restrain, while the other's sanity is somewhat questionable .

THe best is, lets leave the mullahs to their own people. :D

Lets think about it. THe boxer is ill, he is gonna die... Why should we crack beat him and kill him and spend life in prison?

when mullahs are attacked, Persian people who are against mullahs will turn their face to them...

Off course I am saying those because radical islam terrorism is the most dangerous thing in my opinion. What I desire is, illuminate the Persians and arabs and get rid of the bastards like mullahs, bin ladin, etc...

Israel will not attack Iran. Iran is just making all kinds of threats and announcements trying to hype up its OWN population into believeing the Israelis are planning an attack. this is a simple ploy to try to get Iranians to unify behind the mullahs (in the rather wise words of Tekir) and to distract them from the rising protests and demands for reform.

Tekir is absolutely right. Israel would be crazy to attack Iran and hand the Iranian mullahs exactly what they are hoping for - a diversion from the internal dissent that is threatening to tople their ultra-religious rule. Israel knows this and would never risk de-railing Iranian opposition like this. and in any case, the US would never allow Israel to do so.

on the other hand, leaving it to the UN to try to "coax" Iran to comply with regard to it's own nuke programs is a joke and a half...

lol. israel has one of the world's best armies. it should be iran that are scared, not israel. israel has wiped the floor with the arab world so many times it is becoming embarrassing.

ps. i don't think iran having nuclear weapons would be a particularly good idea.

lol. israel has one of the world's best armies. it should be iran that are scared, not israel. israel has wiped the floor with the arab world so many times it is becoming embarrassing.

ps. i don't think iran having nuclear weapons would be a particularly good idea.
I agree that Israel does indeed has one of the strongest military capablities in the world. A small Democratic nation like Israel can crush a huge Muslim country like Egypt and the rest of Arab world.

Iran must be stopped from having these nuclear weapons. I personally think that Israel or even the US should stop Iran from making nukes.

If that is so, then how come that Israel has said countless times that it is ready to attck Iran if the International community does not stop Iran's quest to obtain nuclear weapons. It's absolutely ridiculous that a tiny country, with a population of a couple million, and a "history" of 50 years, thinks that it should be entitled to have nuclear weapons, while it thinks it has the right to deny Iran, a country the size of all of Western Europe, 70 million population, and 8,000 years of history, to obtain nuclear weapons!! Iran, with or withour the mullahs must and shall have nuclear weapons as long as other countries that might pose as a threat to Iran has them. As simple as that. As much as I hate the current regime in Iran, I must say that it's pretty clear that it's Israel who is provoking Iran here.

I wouldn't take Iran's military capabilities lightly. Iran has some 10 million so called "Basij" and "Pasdaran" forces - these are revolutionary volountary militia. Iran also produces a lot of its weapons, including tanks and fighter jets. Iran also has the Shahab 3 missile which reaches Israel. Ofcourse Israel has a strong army! With all the billions that it recieves from the U.S. every year, and with all the high-tech weaponry that the U.S. supplies Israel with - any country in Islraels position should have a strong military! Iran had the 5th strongest army in the world during the reign of the last Shah of Iran. Partly because the U.S. let the Shah of Iran purchase virtually anything he wanted from the U.S. - Let's recall what happened between Iran and Iraq in 1981: Iran had just had a bloody revolution which swept radical reactionary forces into power - out of these, the religious fundamentalists gained an upper hand and sort of hijacked the revolution from the leftist bloc. The revolution led to the dismantling of much of the Imperial Iranian Armed Forces - tens of thousands of Iranian officers and generals were executed. Almost all Imperial Iranian Airforce pilots were jailed. It is estimated that only 35% of Iran's military remained somewhat intact after the revolution. At this point, Iran's arch-enemy, Iraq and it's leader, Saddam Hussein decides that this is the right time to attack Iran and try to annex Iran's oil-rich Khuzestan Province. Certainly Saddam was right to believe that this would be a perfect time for an invasion of Iran's oil-rich province - Iran was in turmoil, chaos was ruling, and almost 70% of Iran's military had been dismantled. Well, he was wrong! What he didn't understand was that Iranians are a very nationalistic people. Iranians of all the different province united over night against the foreign agressor. 80 year old men, 9 year old children, and women of all ages signed up as volounteers to participate in the so called "human waves". Shortly after the invasion the war turned around to the advantage of the Iranians. Iran managed to push out the invading forces of the Iraqis, and to penetrate Iraqi soil. Iran reached the important oil city of Basra and surrounded it. Just as Iran was ready to take Basra, Saddam Hussein used chemical weapons against the Iranian fighters. As a result the Iranians did not win the war - but on the other hand one can't really say that the Iraqis won either. The real winners of this war were those countries who lacked all sense of moral and human dignity by making money selling weapons, including chemical weapons, to a brutal madman like Saddam Hussein! But as they say, "What goes around, comes around" - I believe that those countries will ultimately pay a very heavy price for their constant hypocrisy. The Iraq dilemma will not disappear, and what we have seen, I believe is only the beginning. Iran resisted the Iraqi army mostly with the help of regular citizens. And if Iran will be attacked again, it will do the same - the only difference is that Iran now has a powerful military again.

I agree that Israel does indeed has one of the strongest military capablities in the world. A small Democratic nation like Israel can crush a huge Muslim country like Egypt and the rest of Arab world.

Iran must be stopped from having these nuclear weapons. I personally think that Israel or even the US should stop Iran from making nukes.

Judging from your comments, it seems to me that you do not have much knowledge of the Iranian military capabilities. Israel would have no chance against Iran in a war without the help of the U.S.

i dont understand one thing, why is isreal allowed to have nuclear weapons and not iran, personlly they should both destroy the nuclear weapons, but if one keeps it, the other one should be allowed to keep it as well.

I dont have much time so Ill make it short comment...

No, Iran cant have the nuclears weapons cause Iran is gonna to wipe the map of State of Israel...
Israel have rights to have the nuclears for security reasons and defend it self... and Israel is NOT gonna to wipe the map of Islamic Republic of Iran...

how are u sure that isreal doesn't have plan to attack iran, and iran has the right to defend it self too

how are u sure that isreal doesn't have plan to attack iran, and iran has the right to defend it self too

Simple. Israel has no reason to attack Iran.
Remember Iran was once an ally of Israel, and we (Israelis) still can't figure out why do they hate us.

I would trust no one. And certainly not Israel or Iran (Far right very powerfull in Israel, Islamist country for Iran). I think more weapons on the two side and the fear of mutual destruction will stabilise the area by force.

Far right very powerfull in Israel

Oh my... Is that what the would thinks?
If so, you have no idea what's far right in Israel.
The ones you call 'far right', currently in power, are absolutely not like these fanatics in Iran, who seek to destroy Israel just for not being Islamic.
The far-right in Israel is not that powerful. If it was, you wouldn't even hear about sharon's plan to Move settlements out of Gaza Strip and north-Shomron to areas behind the green-line.
The fact that people here are already talking about giving payments to those who will be moved from their homes in these areas, says something, don't you agree?
Besides, as I said, Israel has no issue with Iran, except from the Iranian announcments that it'll destroy Israel.

Simple. Israel has no reason to attack Iran.
Remember Iran was once an ally of Israel, and we (Israelis) still can't figure out why do they hate us.

First of all "They" who hate you, are not the Iranian people - it's the regime, and they hate you because in their eyes: 1) Israel belongs to the Palestinians. 2) Jerusalem is a sacred city for Islam and belonged to the Palestinians as well.

But the truth of the matter, which most countries and people do not understand, is that the so called "Islamic" theocratic regime of Iran, are not at all as "Islamic" as they are shrewd businessmen and opportunities. Many of the people who rule Iran today, dressed in the robe of the clergy, were not even religious prior to the revolution - some of them were even very radical marxists - others were just radical, without any other particular label attached to them. The present establishment in Iran is made out of a "holy" melting pot of all kinds of people: religious fanatics, opportunists, reactionary leftists, moderate so called "reformers", and the "baazaaris" (mafia of businessmen), etc. - They do therefore not have one coherent and consistent policy, but rather a thousand different ones. Therefore one may from time to time hear that "Iran reaches out to the U.S." while the next day one may hear that "Iran would never dream of reapproachment with the U.S." But there is a center of power, and this center makes the big decisions, and the two most important names of this center is Rafsanjani and Khamenei.

The establishment in Iran are not ideologists - for them "death to Israel" and "Death to the U.S." are nothing more than empty slogans - They really couldn't care less if twice as many Palestinans died than are dying today. For them the Palestinan issue is more a game of tactics and strategy. In order to be able to cling to power so that they can steal more money from the Iranian treasury, they need something that they can use against their enemies. Since the regime consists of many members of the clergy, it falls natural that they are more supportive of the plight of the fellow Muslim Palestinians - this makes Iran a natural enemy of Israel. In order to defend themselves from any possible Israeli and U.S. agression, they use the Palestinans, the Hamas and Hezbollah as a consistent threat against Israel. But I can assure you that they would never ever attack Israel with or without nuclear weapons! The anti-Israel rethoric of the "Islamic" republic is nothing more than just rethorics.

I dont have much time so Ill make it short comment...

No, Iran cant have the nuclears weapons cause Iran is gonna to wipe the map of State of Israel...
Israel have rights to have the nuclears for security reasons and defend it self... and Israel is NOT gonna to wipe the map of Islamic Republic of Iran...

If you REALLY believe that, then you are very misinformed. The current Iranian regime, no matter how much they stink, would NEVER use nuclear weapons against Israel or any other nation. Even if they were first attacked, it would take a lot for the Iranian regime to make use of any WMD's. I think the risk that Israel would use their nukes are much, much greater than that the Iranian regime would! Israel, a tiny, tiny country of just a couple of million in population, surrounded by a sea of mostly hostile countries, could very well find itself in a position in the long run where it feels that its existence is threatened, and thus sees no other way than to use their nukes against their enemies. Iran has a real legitimate reason to have the ability to defend its integrity and independence, since it's situated in an area where it has many potential enemies - more so than even Israel! The Iranians do not have Israel in mind as much as other nations when it comes to their desire to obtain nuclear weapons - and only for the sake of detente, not for pre-emptive strike.

I'd prefer one of two things to happen...

- Iran develops nukes to level the playing field

or

- The entire middle east disarms WMDs - Israel, Iran, anyone else seeking to acquire them and also Arab states must 1) acknowledge Israel as a state, 2) renounce terrorism against Israel. Israel must reciprocate by granting the Palestinian people their own state and Jerusalem must be either shared or, a UN-protected territory.




I prefer the second one of course.

I am sorry but Persian weaponry systems such as Shahab missiles are out dated, copied, North korean/Russian/Chinese systems.

I do not think Iran would have any kind of muscle against Israel. Israel Air Force will finish Iran Air Defence in a day.

I think Israel will attack Iran, but as I said before, I would prefer leaving mullahs to their fate...

If you REALLY believe that, then you are very misinformed. The current Iranian regime, no matter how much they stink, would NEVER use nuclear weapons against Israel or any other nation. Even if they were first attacked, it would take a lot for the Iranian regime to make use of any WMD's. I think the risk that Israel would use their nukes are much, much greater than that the Iranian regime would! Israel, a tiny, tiny country of just a couple of million in population, surrounded by a sea of mostly hostile countries, could very well find itself in a position in the long run where it feels that its existence is threatened, and thus sees no other way than to use their nukes against their enemies. Iran has a real legitimate reason to have the ability to defend its integrity and independence, since it's situated in an area where it has many potential enemies - more so than even Israel! The Iranians do not have Israel in mind as much as other nations when it comes to their desire to obtain nuclear weapons - and only for the sake of detente, not for pre-emptive strike.

If only it was like this, then we'd have no problem .
I think the main problem with Iran having nuclear weapons is that it is a religious dictatorship, so the potential always exists for some fanatic lunatic to come to power and actually put that weapon into action . And don't forget that Iran never stopped threatening Israel and constantly declare that the Zionist state should be terminated . In the present these threats a vacant, but an atomic bomb would surly make them possible .

Anyway, you're post is very level-minded, and not the usual hurling we get from our Islamic friends ;), I hope what you said about the Iranian people is true, this could be a source for optimism, thanks for posting .

Iranian people are great people, it is the mullahs causing the trouble. If they remove mullahs they will recover and be strong soon. But I really doubt, muslim states can recover. It is quite difficult.

Iranian people are great people, it is the mullahs causing the trouble.

Yes... Before the mullahs, Iran was a close ally of Israel.

'Iran has the right to devellop nuclear weapons. And it will be better for world peace because of the M.A.D. doctrine.'

This is one of the most naive comments i've ever heard. Right, lets give Gaddafi nukes, lets give Japan and North Korea nukes...why don't we give Bin Laden a nuke as well just to square the circle the fact of the matter is that the Iranian government are complete bastards, they suppress their own people.

The possession of nukes gives a country a veto on any other country fundamentally influencing it. It is okay for responsible countries with democratically elected leaders to have nukes, but countries with leaders who care more about allah and wiping Israel off the map than the welfare of their own (and other) people probably shouldn't have nuclear weapons.

agree with that israel is probably among the top 5 most powerful countries in the world, they don't need the united states to jump in and help.

tekir i agree with you fully on that I am sorry but Persian weaponry systems such as Shahab missiles are out dated, copied, North korean/Russian/Chinese systems.

It is sad what has happened to Iran. I am friends with many Iranian Australians and they are all very upset with that the mullahs have done to that country.

Yeah it is sad what happened to Iran, hopefully theyll recover one day

Some weeks ago on BBC in the quiz "The Weakest Link" on BBC 2 the question was - Wich State has the world's largest army? The candidate replied ISRAEL!!
Of course she was corrected by Ann Robinson - China was the correct answer. However, this supports the (mis)conception in W.-Europe existing about Israel.
Please note the wording of the question: LARGEST not STRONGEST. China's Army most likely is bigger then the whole population of Israel, yet Taiwan still is existing. Also as China becomes more as our friend Childish King is showing us, pretty soon there will be no more need for such a large army there. Economy is mightier than military power nowadays, and Israel is very strong in Pharmaceutics, Nano-technology, and more of the like. Before, agriculture and tourism were Israels main sources of income, but the economy is almost completely Hi-Tech. The surrounding muslim world (except Turkey) is very primitive even though Iran tries to intimidate the West with it's nucleair ambition.
By the way, Tel Aviv Maccabi beat Ajax (from Amsterdam) by 2 to 1 yesterday (3 NOV)
Mabuhay Israel - Ganbatte Israel - Viva Israel - Hup Israel!!

Haha I liked the ending of your post the most ;) And I do agree with its beginning :D

I support Iran acquiring nuclear weapons. The only way for the Middle East to be nuclear free is for Israel to dismantle her nukes. There can be no peace when only Israel can possess nukes.

There is peace because Israel has them, unless we had them we would have been wiped out of the map ages ago...why do you think nobody really forced Israel to dismantel from WMD?

'Iran has the right to devellop nuclear weapons. And it will be better for world peace because of the M.A.D. doctrine.'

This is one of the most naive comments i've ever heard. Right, lets give Gaddafi nukes, lets give Japan and North Korea nukes...why don't we give Bin Laden a nuke as well just to square the circle the fact of the matter is that the Iranian government are complete bastards, they suppress their own people.

The possession of nukes gives a country a veto on any other country fundamentally influencing it. It is okay for responsible countries with democratically elected leaders to have nukes, but countries with leaders who care more about allah and wiping Israel off the map than the welfare of their own (and other) people probably shouldn't have nuclear weapons.

Your answers flawed. Bin Ladin isn't representative of a country.

North Korea has already nukes. Anyway, they don't need that we give them any.

Japan, do you think it could be dangerous that Japan get nukes?

Lybia already has some stuff too most likely.



......

So? does that mean we can willingly give them more nukes simply because they already got it? we must not ease their life getting them.

What right does Israel have to hold hundreds of millions of Muslim lives in ransom while the Arab world cannot do the same with Israel?

What right does Israel have to hold hundreds of millions of Muslim lives in ransom while the Arab world cannot do the same with Israel?

go and learn some history :
Israel accepts the right of all arab and islamic states to "exist" ,the arab world dont accept the existance of Israel.
since 1948, the day Israel was born 5 arab armys invaded the new state,aiming to destroy it . the threats continue by more wars against Israel in 1956 1967 1973 ,throgh all that years those palestinians used terror against its civilians (as back as 1920s, thats even before 1967war so called "occupation").
therfore asmall nation of 5 millions had to built such astrong army and "special arsenal" to stand infront the hundreds of millions of hostile arab .just to exist in that part of the world.

Irans fanatic ayatullas still claims Israel don't have any right to exist ,while we dont have any problem with them, to let them reach nuclear weapons is crazy even suicidical.

Israel doesn't have the right to exist in the first place. Israel is built on the land the Palestinians have been living on and cultivating the land for over 1000 years. Israel is built on the blood, tear, suffering and humiliation of the Palestinian people.

Iran has never invaded a country for over 100 years whereas Israel has been constantly waging wars with her neighbours. Israel's possession of nukes will only intensify the Arabs' desire for nuclear weapons to level the playing field.

Yeh i agree with Vinaboyz. Israel was form on palestinian land.

here you go :"Israel doesn't have the right to exist in the first place"

i knew we will come to this, such an ignurance, and dissinformation.
go and learn some history:
A-the jewish people is living in the land of Israel nonstop
continuosly for some 4000 years.

B- Hebrew independant soverinty existed there as now, such as the kingdom of judea ,the kingdom of Israel etc.

C -the palestinians never had any independence there, who heard about them 100 years ago? they lived as individuals not as anation.(as jews live in europe for some 2500 years ,before the austrian frances germans swiss hungarian polish british denish what so ever.and dont claim for independnce there).

D- what kind of colonialism is that :as in archiological sites you find jewish -hebrew written artifacts dating 3000+ years old and not palestinian arabic islamic one ?

E- before 1967 the west bank was part of jordan ,gaza part of Egypt , there was no palestinian state there, Israel fought against egyptian army jordnian army and syrian backed with iraqi forces.(as aresponse to arab attrocetis and pals. terror).

E- the zionist movment created 2 nations upon that land early 20th cen. :
Israel and Palestine
say thanks to us!

Say thanks to you Jews? Without you people coming back and robbing the land from the Palestinians, they'll be having a country of your own and not living under occupation and repression.

It's very ironic that a Jew asking the Palestinians and the world to thank them for what they're giving to (or rather taking from) the Palestinans.

Say thanks to you Jews? Without you people coming back and robbing the land from the Palestinians, they'll be having a country of your own and not living under occupation and repression.

It's very ironic that a Jew asking the Palestinians and the world to thank them for what they're giving to (or rather taking from) the Palestinans.

Very narrow minded point of view you've got there.

What would you consider an open-minded view?

What would you consider an open-minded view?

Looking at the facts and perhaps considering both sides, instead of changing the facts of history because it is what you desire. Come on... "robbing the land from the Palestinians" both you and I know it is not as simple as that. Why not talk about the reason why the West Bank and Gaza are under Israeli control in the first place?

nobody can attack to anyone else

I have taken active interest in learning the Middle East and the Arab Israeli conflict since year 12. In fact, I did the Israeli-Palestinian conflict for my major project for modern history.

Of course I know the issue is not as simple as I made it sound. However, in the end, it boils down to the fact that the mess the British left behind and the German's bad job of carrying out the "Final Solution" is plaguing the innocent Palestinians right until this day.

What right did the British have of allowing Jews to settle on Palestine, the land where the Palestinians have been cultivating on and making it their home for 1300 years?

If you want to talk about why the West Bank and Gaza are under Israeli control in the first place, I would like to ask you to go back further in time and talk about the reason why the zionists systematically executed Palestinians and driven them out of their homeland and into camps in the West Bank, Gaza and Jordan; And the massacre at Sabra and Shatila.

You obviously didnt learn much from you major assignment did you?
first off all the Sabra and shatila wasnt at all been conducted by Israelis, it was Christian arabs who slaughtered Muslim arabs, the only thing Israel didnt do and alot of people think it should have done is to prevent it from happening, but this is hypocricy at its best! why would Israel interfere between two muslims sides? whats the logic behind it?
And the only other part which is worth answering to in your whole post is your final solution remark.....So tell me, do you think the Germans should have done it? should have finished all the jews and make them vanish for good? so what are you saying by this? let me tell you what youre saying:
A) Somones life is worth less than someone elses life
B) You openly supprt killing and for this matter it doesnt change the fact who is it that you wish to see dead
C) you give legitimacy to Nazi Germany and its acts

You kind of lost any bit of humanity you might have had, your comment was racist and unnessecasry,,,,was just uncalled for.

You Jews showed no humanity towards the Palestinians and thus deserves no humanity and sympathy from the rest of the world.

Which makes YOU just as bad

Yes I'm just as bad but at least I don't go around murdering babies and women and humiliate and oppress a whole race of people.

Neither do I

I don't like what you're getting at here:

German's bad job of carrying out the "Final Solution"


Get fucked you barstard. My God you have no idea do you...

I may have continued debating this issue with you, however I shan't bother now after realising your sickening take on the situation.

Iran threatens to wipe Israel off map, again

That's a somehow bizarre title, as Israel itself is founded upon the extinction of another land - Palestina. This land was wiped off the map by Israel, and in stark contrast to what happened with Iraq after 3 month's occupation of Kuwait, Israel has got off with it for around 50 years now.

It pays off well to be best friends with Rougue state no. 1 (according to international "common-people-opinion" polls); USA....


/A

Neither do I
You don't, but your people do. Not only in Israel but around the world, your people are dictating US foreign policies and murdering thousands of people as we speak of, day after day.

I will never forget the fact that Henry Kissinger, a Jew, dictated the US bombings, killings and destruction of Vietnam.

Why the hell didnt they give the Jews Bavaria. They could have had Munich for their capital. And all of this would have been solved.
The gemans wouldnt have any points for argument if they asked for it back, they tried to kill a whole race of people!

thats a good point but at the end of the war there was VERY VERY little Jews remaining that wanted to live in Germany or Europe.. i say why did they not go to the US or Britain its the only place where they would not be discriminated compared to other places

Evevy country in the world except for antartica is based on occupation of land. The concept of countries and nations is racist.

I will never forget the fact that Henry Kissinger, a Jew, dictated the US bombings, killings and destruction of Vietnam.

I never knew that the Jews were behind the mass killing and destruction of Vietnam. Thanks for the info. I believe many Vietnamese are not aware of this. I will try to let them know about this.

according to natzis such as vinaboy and kamikaza the "Jews" are to blaime in every single problem in this globe...

according to natzis such as vinaboy and kamikaza the "Jews" are to blaime in every single problem in this globe...


No they are certainly not.
But they are to be blamed for this. (http://www.alkhilafah.info/massacres/palestine/jenin.htm)

/A

I never knew that the Jews were behind the mass killing and destruction of Vietnam. Thanks for the info. I believe many Vietnamese are not aware of this. I will try to let them know about this.

Oh no, another ignorant forumer here...

No they are certainly not.
But they are to be blamed for this. (http://www.alkhilafah.info/massacres/palestine/jenin.htm)

/A

Dude, this site is belong to Muslim groups who is Anti Israeli, and Anti Jews... and they make that site which is BIAS!!!!!!...

If you want the truth news, and honest reporting... then please go to www.honestreporting.com - it is a good site and provide 100% Unbiased news and information...

I'm amazed at the amount of anti-semitism bullshit you guys have to put up with. Contact a mod and get some of these ignorant fucks banned.

On the day the Intafada broke out, Tuvia Grossman was riding a taxi to visit the Western Wall. He was unwittingly thrust into the international limelight -- and nearly killed in the process.

Updated May 2002

On September 30, 2000, The New York Times, Associated Press and other major media outlets published a photo of a young man -- bloodied and battered -- crouching beneath a club-wielding Israeli policeman. The caption identified him as a Palestinian victim of the recent riots -- with the clear implication that the Israeli soldier is the one who beat him.

The victim's true identity was revealed when Dr. Aaron Grossman of Chicago sent the following letter to the Times:

Regarding your picture on page A5 of the Israeli soldier and the Palestinian on the Temple Mount -- that Palestinian is actually my son, Tuvia Grossman, a Jewish student from Chicago. He, and two of his friends, were pulled from their taxicab while traveling in Jerusalem, by a mob of Palestinian Arabs, and were severely beaten and stabbed.

That picture could not have been taken on the Temple Mount because there are no gas stations on the Temple Mount and certainly none with Hebrew lettering, like the one clearly seen behind the Israeli soldier attempting to protect my son from the mob.

In response, the New York Times published a half-hearted correction which identified Tuvia Grossman as "an American student in Israel" -- not as a Jew who was beaten by Arabs. The "correction" also noted that "Mr. Grossman was wounded" in "Jerusalem's Old City" -- although the beating actually occurred in the Arab neighborhood of Wadi al Joz, not in the Old City.

In response to public outrage at the original error and the inadequate correction, The New York Times reprinted Tuvia Grossman's picture -- this time with the proper caption -- along with a full article detailing his near-lynching at the hands of Palestinians rioters.

Read Tuvia Grossman's in-depth, first-person account of his ordeal, entitled Victim of the Media War. www.aish.com/jewishissues/israeldiary/

The photo of a bloodied Tuvia Grossman became a symbol in the struggle to ensure that Israel receives the fair media coverage that every nation deserves.

In April 2002, a District Court in Paris ordered the French daily newspaper "Liberation" and the Associated Press to pay damages to Grossman in the amount of 4,500 Euro.

The Court condemned the Associated Press for "mispresenting [Grossman] as a member of the Palestinian community," while the court censured "Liberation" for "publishing the litigious picture with a comment edited the same faulty way, giving the picture a meaning and a scope it could not have."

http://honestreporting.com/graphics/tuvia.jpg

:ohno:

That is why the Palestinians people and Arab medias are telling lies and bias... and so are you Vinaboyz, Ahcoolio, and Kamikaze telling lies and of course on the Palestinians side as well..... :ohno:...

I'm amazed at the amount of anti-semitism bullshit you guys have to put up with. Contact a mod and get some of these ignorant fucks banned.

Yeh Mr Man, thats true... we should get a mod and get some of these ignorants fuckwits banned.... :okay:

Also who's responsible for killing Mohammed Al-Durrah???????

Palestinians and World Arab Medias blamed on Israel Defense Force... and after that a group of French Investigators and found out that it was FUCKN responsible by HAMAS.... how the fuck they blamed on Israel for bullshit? so horrible.......

I am sure you Vinaboyz, Kamikaze, and Achoolio will says it was Israel's killing Mohammed Al-Durrah....

and there is so many evidences about some of palestinians ppl were murdered by their people such as Hamas and blamed on Israel for killing them.... that's sad :(

well said reinti....and we can only imagine how much of lies are said in the world's medie and press

Does Hamas kill Palestinian Children to blame on Israel? YES!

It happens all too frequently. The IDF goes into the West Bank or Gaza, and somehow, sometimes mysteriously, a Palestinian child gets killed and the death is blamed on the IDF.

Just like clockwork, every time that there is a confrontation between Palestinians and the IDF, a Palestinian child, somehow is outside playing, or going to get candy at the store, and gets killed by the IDF, even if the IDF wasn't anywhere near the child.

Hamas has shown, many times in the past, that it targets children. I am convinced that Hamas has a policy of murdering (martyring) children of their own, to further their propaganda goals against Israel.

Jenin was a lie too, wouldn't be the first time would it?

OMG Alcoolio that made my blood boil I cant f*ckin believe the horror they made.. I'm fu*ckin 1 step closer to becoming a Nazi if this shit continues

Yeah so one or two incidents such as the above are misreports by journalists. However, how do you people explain for the repression, murders, humiliation of millions of other Palestinians? You people are so full of it and think every you people ever did are right.

SQD, yes the Jews did instigate the murder of Vietnamese civilians and cause the destruction Vietnam and Vietnamese lives. Descendants of Dragon and Fairy should never forget this crime agaisnt humanity.

OMG Alcoolio that made my blood boil I cant f*ckin believe the horror they made.. I'm fu*ckin 1 step closer to becoming a Nazi if this shit continues

Not a good thing to say. I already knew vinaboyz hated Jews, but you said you don't hate Jews, just right-wing Zionists, so please don't say you are one step closer to supporting a genocide against Jews.

Vinaboyz, it is beyond me how you haven't been banned.

No they are certainly not.
But they are to be blamed for this. (http://www.alkhilafah.info/massacres/palestine/jenin.htm)

/A
Oh my God how could the rest of the world allow this to happen? This is a crime against humanity.

do some more research before making a judgement about this, vinaboyz. Most of the international community denies a massacre took place.

Massacre or not, what happened in Jenin is deplorable. Go and look at the pictures. Were they neccessary? It is nothing short of a genocide.

if it wasn't a massacre, it wasn't a genocide.

I still maintain all killing of civilians is wrong however, and I'm sure Israel did commit some war crimes at Jenin (can you believe a Jew is admitting that, vinaboyz?)

What are the qualifications for a massacre, hence genocide?

Obviously Israel did and continues to commit crimes against humanity. There's no doubt about that. It doesn't take a Jew's admission to make it valid. I can see that you are a moderate Jew. However, Jews and zionists in general is another matter.

Do you Israeli Jews live at peace with your conscience and moral values against such backdrop of state terrorism, repression against the Palestinians and humiliation of the Palestinian people?

Most Jews I know agree with my "moderate" stance. Thank God there are so many moderate Jews and moderate Muslims.

I don't believe either side is innocent here. Both the Israelis and the Palestinians have accidentally killed innocent people. However the Palestinians have intentionally killed a lot more innocent Israelis with suicide bombers than Israelis have intentionally bombed innocent Palestinians. The whole conflict is never ending back and fourth acts of vengeance, and it's a viscious cycle that needs to stop. Hopefully a much wiser man will rise up and lead the Palestinian Authority to a peaceful resolve, but it's unlikely.

I can see that you are a moderate Jew. However, Jews and zionists in general is another matter.
And you are a racist. Your opinions are meaningless.

Massacre or not, what happened in Jenin is deplorable. Go and look at the pictures. Were they neccessary? It is nothing short of a genocide.
Idiot

I don't believe either side is innocent here. Both the Israelis and the Palestinians have accidentally killed innocent people. However the Palestinians have intentionally killed a lot more innocent Israelis with suicide bombers than Israelis have intentionally bombed innocent Palestinians. The whole conflict is never ending back and fourth acts of vengeance, and it's a viscious cycle that needs to stop. Hopefully a much wiser man will rise up and lead the Palestinian Authority to a peaceful resolve, but it's unlikely.

What a load of rubbish man , if my family were killed in such a horrible way , i would too kill jews for revenge , i really would . its human nature.

I would go for military personals ofcourse , however , if i find it so difficult getting to them with snipers everywhere and hiding in their merkavaz, then i would diffenetaly lose hope and bomb myself amogst the jews

What a load of rubbish man , if my family were killed in such a horrible way , i would too kill jews for revenge , i really would . its human nature.

I would go for military personals ofcourse , however , if i find it so difficult getting to them with snipers everywhere and hiding in their merkavaz, then i would diffenetaly lose hope and bomb myself amogst the jews

This is absurd, you do not see Israeli families which were affected by terror taking the business to their hands and go kill Palestiniens, why dont Israeli do that then? why dont Israeli whos been affected from terror take a bomb belt and exploade lets say in downtown Ramallah?

RoM , You know that extremist jews , which are not part of the military do kill palastenians , especially settlers

And maybe the jews affected by "terror" from the palastenian side ;-

1- Justify the bombing after it happens , especially when they know what the israili army and settlers are doing to civilian palastenians

2- They are too afriad

3- They love life too much

However , think of it this way

Your a palastenian boy , your family were killed "accidentaly" by the israile army , hundreds of other people are too busy with their dead to give u any comfort or hope for the future , you live a a dirty refugee where you cant get your basic daily needs , then the future will seem so depressing and dark , the only asnwer u can think of is bomb yourself

On the other hand , your an israeli boy , ur sister or mother are killed in the bus , you still have other family members and people to comfort u , u live in a city wich has lots of people that will stand by your side , ur city is modern , clean and has everything to offer , you eventually see the future is bright , however ur still extremly sad to what happened to your mother on the Bus

I could of written this a million times better in Arabic , anyways

RoM , You know that extremist jews , which are not part of the military do kill palastenians , especially settlers

Especially settlers? Please try to be a little rational.

However , think of it this way

Your a palastenian boy , your family were killed "accidentaly" by the israile army , hundreds of other people are too busy with their dead to give u any comfort or hope for the future , you live a a dirty refugee where you cant get your basic daily needs , then the future will seem so depressing and dark , the only asnwer u can think of is bomb yourself

On the other hand , your an israeli boy , ur sister or mother are killed in the bus , you still have other family members and people to comfort u , u live in a city wich has lots of people that will stand by your side , ur city is modern , clean and has everything to offer , you eventually see the future is bright , however ur still extremly sad to what happened to your mother on the Bus

I could of written this a million times better in Arabic , anyways
Exactly how could you have written it better in Arabic? Would you have created even more glaring falsehoods? Would you have been able to slant the reality even more towards your bias? Would you have been able to create even more distortions of what really happens? The audacity you have to blame the refugee situation on Israel when your own people use the local Arab polulation as pawns in their pan-Arab political games. Arabs have been trying to destroy Israel since it's inception. Get off your high horse and see the truth for once. The problems the Arabs have in Israel is an extension of their own policies of war against Israel and internal fighting among their own people. They have created a culture of blaming others for their situation. So they blame Israel for everything. What nonsense and what a pity. Somebody has brainwashed you extremely well.

No ones brainwashed me , i`m just telling the truth

It would of been better in Arabic , coz it would of been perfect , no grammer or spelling mistakes , thats what i meant

The pathetic thing is , you are not willing to admit that israel has and still is comitting horrific things

So how do u expect me to take anything u say seriously , you get off your high horse and dont be so bias

No ones brainwashed me , i`m just telling the truth

It would of been better in Arabic , coz it would of been perfect , no grammer or spelling mistakes , thats what i meant

The pathetic thing is , you are not willing to admit that israel has and still is comitting horrific things

So how do u expect me to take anything u say seriously , you get off your high horse and dont be so bias
If you are unable to recognize the absolute bias in your original statement you lack any reasonable ability to discern and speak rationally. It is a common symptom of brainwashing.

I am certainly capable of acknowledging the things Israel does wrong, when they do such things. But your descriptions of events and your understanding of the situation are so radical and utterly inaccurate that dialogue with you is almost futile. Just go look at your statement and you will see how absurd it is. You might as well write a comic book with villians and super heroes. And even more astounding, you refer to your comic-book fiction as 'truth'. Amazing and quite unsettling.

Read it , nothing Bias about it , its simply the truth

How about you tell me what You believe is BIAS

Your a palastenian boy , your family were killed "accidentaly" by the israile army , hundreds of other people are too busy with their dead to give u any comfort or hope for the future , you live a a dirty refugee where you cant get your basic daily needs , then the future will seem so depressing and dark , the only asnwer u can think of is bomb yourself

On the other hand , your an israeli boy , ur sister or mother are killed in the bus , you still have other family members and people to comfort u , u live in a city wich has lots of people that will stand by your side , ur city is modern , clean and has everything to offer , you eventually see the future is bright , however ur still extremly sad to what happened to your mother on the Bus

I could of written this a million times better in Arabic , anyways
OK, let's look at your objective truth.

Arab boys have no family to comfort them, but Israelis do.

Hundreds of people are involved in taking care of their own familes, of the dead and wounded in Arab locations, but nobody is there to comfort this Arab boy! (a contradiction, by the way, in logic) But not so in Israeli locations. Only his mother or sister was killed or maimed. Nobody else on the bus was hurt at all. Why all the comotion. The family can comfort the boy without having to worry about other 'distractions' caused by the bus bombing.

None of those helping the Arabs are family members (and that is somehow Israeli's fault), only in Israel do family members help.

The only answer for the Arab boy is to bomb himself. For the Israeli person the future is bright and sunny even though their family memeber was just intnetionally, brutally murdered.

There are others, but thses are enough. You have the intellectual prowess of a gnat if think anybody can look at your writing and consider it the "truth".

It is the truth , and you know it .

It is the truth , and you know it .
I find it amazing that a human being, with a brain and the ability to think and reason, can look at that and not only claim it is the truth, but challenge another intelligent being that he also surely accepts it as truth. Read it again. It is so completely impossible to be truth. It is so absurd, it is almost satire! You should donate your brain to science when you pass away. Scientists may discover the missing link or some other incredible discovery.

Dubai Boy... you are really dumb!!!

Dubai Boy... you are really dumb!!!

he is not dumb, he is lacking information so he is taking the Palestiniens side and thats logical even though its not true.
but at least he is answearing politely and we can have a rational discussion with him, not like many other members in this forum which are totally ignorant...
Dubai Boy, it seems like you dont know all the facts about whats going on here and you are one sided, but, the fact that we can have a come and rational discussion gives you alot of credit point from all of us here..
respect.

No ones brainwashed me , i`m just telling the truth

It would of been better in Arabic , coz it would of been perfect , no grammer or spelling mistakes , thats what i meant

The pathetic thing is , you are not willing to admit that israel has and still is comitting horrific things

So how do u expect me to take anything u say seriously , you get off your high horse and dont be so bias

Youre English is fine dont worry.....I think both sides think the other one is biased, there is no point in accusing each other. Israel did manz horrifying things that is true, but dont forget to ask yourself why do things happen. Israels actions take place for a reason, both sides made big mistakes, but the bottom line is that when suicide attack and terror incitement will end in the Palestinien Authority, a better more peaceful times would come. Its the Palestiniens who need it more than the Israelis this time, so IMO, Its only logic theyll do the first step...

Actually he is neither dumb nor lack of knowledge. Its just 93% of the media is controled by jews so u wouldnt find the truth easily.

ROM Israeli needs it more. 1 million Israeli have imagrated from Isreal since the blessed intifadah. Palestanian dont have anything to worry about. Israel already took everything.

Youre English is fine dont worry.....I think both sides think the other one is biased, there is no point in accusing each other. Israel did manz horrifying things that is true, but dont forget to ask yourself why do things happen. Israels actions take place for a reason, both sides made big mistakes, but the bottom line is that when suicide attack and terror incitement will end in the Palestinien Authority, a better more peaceful times would come. Its the Palestiniens who need it more than the Israelis this time, so IMO, Its only logic theyll do the first step...

So what your saying , the Palastenians must bend over and take it up the ###

Rom, No people , especially under occupation can accept that.

FACTS ABOUT DAIR YASEEN

on the 8th/april/1948 "hajanah" gang leaded by "bejin" who has become the prime minister later attacked dair yaseen village. After a tough attack "hajanah" could invade it. And done one of the worst blooded killing in the human history. 250 were killed; most were women and children.

"bijin" the vice prisedent once said: dair yaseen was one of the main reasons for the success in the attack.

Actually he is neither dumb nor lack of knowledge. Its just 93% of the media is controled by jews so u wouldnt find the truth easily.



93% of the media is taking by jaws and its still so pro arab?
good to know...it seems like ur the one who lack in information in here



ROM Israeli needs it more. 1 million Israeli have imagrated from Isreal since the blessed intifadah. Palestanian dont have anything to worry about. Israel already took everything.

1 million Israelis left Israel since the foundation of Israel and not since the intifada... what u just said isnt logical at all and not true ..but again, it seems like your not capable of thinking.

FACTS:

in 1942. Jews planed to kicked the british out of palestine. so when their army was almost 60,000 they killing some british soliders and destroyed some british police bases. which effected UK as it had problems in europe.

It became worse when. "Hajanah" gang leader gorion said in the 19th/5/1942 ur land isreal between alfruat and the nile as it is mentioned in the torah as some says. And he asked the jews youth to imagrate to palestine.

93% of the media is taking by jaws and its still so pro arab?
good to know...it seems like ur the one who lack in information in here

its the same how the jewish lobby is really powerfull and controlling the country. thats why all the american presidents try to satisfy israel.


1 million Israelis left Israel since the foundation of Israel and not since the intifada... what u just said isnt logical at all and not true ..but again, it seems like your not capable of thinking.
dont ask me that is what "bidot" hebrew israeli newspaper mentioned.

Funny I never heard of the so called 'bidot'. As an Israeli you would think ill heard about it, oh well

So what your saying , the Palastenians must bend over and take it up the ###

Rom, No people , especially under occupation can accept that.

No, of course not. But they would achieve much more and suffer much less if they only used the negotiate table instead of the rifle.

its the same how the jewish lobby is really powerfull and controlling the country. thats why all the american presidents try to satisfy israel.


dont ask me that is what "bidot" hebrew israeli newspaper mentioned.

first of all what is bidot anyway?

2dly, unlike you my facts and information is not based on the media only..
and if there really were 1 Million of Israelis leaving Israel in the last 4 years..
dont you think its something i would feel? i mean 1 of 6 is alot.
please, i think i know abit more about my country than you or every other non Israeli citizen...maybe you also want to argue about what Israelis are eating for dinner or how much people were in the last football much..
every jerk who heard the word Israel for once in his life thinks he can just come here spread his word of wisdom and walk away while thinking he is right....jeez

Actually he is neither dumb nor lack of knowledge. Its just 93% of the media is controled by jews so u wouldnt find the truth easily.

ROM Israeli needs it more. 1 million Israeli have imagrated from Isreal since the blessed intifadah. Palestanian dont have anything to worry about. Israel already took everything.
You have to blame others for your problems. It is a sad state of existence. I feel sorry for you.

its the same how the jewish lobby is really powerfull and controlling the country. thats why all the american presidents try to satisfy israel.
.
Of course it is the lobby that influences the president. It is beyond your ability to reason to fathom that the president and the US continue to support Israel because it is the right thing to do. The US, and the UN, in 1948 did an amazing thing by establishing Israel in tits historically correct homeland. Some of the coutries continue to support that amazing and correct action. It is a good thing.

So what your saying , the Palastenians must bend over and take it up the ###

Rom, No people , especially under occupation can accept that.
And all you have to do is look at history as to why these people are 'under occupation'. They and their Arab brethren have been attacking Israel since 1948. And they continue to do so even today. All they ever had to do was negotiate. All they had to do in 1948 was not fight against the establishment of Israel. The Arabs didn't fight (though they tried to) against the establishment of Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Saudi, and Iraq, to mention a few. But the rabs chose to fight in 48, 56, 67, 73 and still fight. The people you call 'under occupation' have been pawns in the politics of the Arab countries. It is a shame. EVen the Jordanians and Syrians kicked them out of those countries. When they are ready to negotiate an end of hostilities perhaps the other Arabs will leave them alone. Israel certainly will.

It's important to point out that many Palestinian supporters do recognize that Arab states have left Palestine to fend for itself. If you look at political cartoons from moderate Arabic newspapers, they often show Palestine being ignored by the Arab states.

It's important to point out that many Palestinian supporters do recognize that Arab states have left Palestine to fend for itself. If you look at political cartoons from moderate Arabic newspapers, they often show Palestine being ignored by the Arab states.


non of the arab states want nothing to do with the Palestiniens..they prefer the current situation where Israel is handling them.

:/ thats sad... but i dont see any solution ! i hope Israel will win quicly witch denger! cye! --Poland&Israel-- >> www.rebeel.fotka.pl >>

something needs to be done abt the constant bloodloss and deaths...and both sides need to cooperate. But as they say, the countries with the nukes and superior army should show the responsibility and dignity of making the right actions with their neighbors and not inducing further violence....which i dont see happening

something needs to be done abt the constant bloodloss and deaths...and both sides need to cooperate. But as they say, the countries with the nukes and superior army should show the responsibility and dignity of making the right actions with their neighbors and not inducing further violence....which i dont see happening
That sounds well and good. It sounds lofty and noble. It also sounds like suicide. Do you have any idea at all the disparity in size and population Israel holds relative to its sworn enemies-neighbors? Look at a map, read an atlas, do something. Israel is willing to come to the table and negotiate anytime its neighbors drop their insistance on Israel's destruction. Any other course of action is irresponsible.

That sounds well and good. It sounds lofty and noble. It also sounds like suicide. Do you have any idea at all the disparity in size and population Israel holds relative to its sworn enemies-neighbors? Look at a map, read an atlas, do something. Israel is willing to come to the table and negotiate anytime its neighbors drop their insistance on Israel's destruction. Any other course of action is irresponsible.

believe me, i know my mideast. but all im saying is that if israel is responsible to have nukes, they should be responsible to not being stubborn, and abusing their power.

believe me, i know my mideast. but all im saying is that if israel is responsible to have nukes, they should be responsible to not being stubborn, and abusing their power.

the Palestinien arent afraid of Israel because if its nukes....they know there is no chance we will use them against anyone...our nuke is there only as a final weapon if we will be attacked...Israel was never the one to start wars we are passive the most of the time, the fact that we have nukes shouldnt be a reason to anyone to say that we have more "responsebility" for anything, we have exactly the same responsebility as any one else.

believe me, i know my mideast. but all im saying is that if israel is responsible to have nukes, they should be responsible to not being stubborn, and abusing their power.
You do not know the middle east if that's how you analyze things. Israel isn't 'stubborn', as you put it. They are not abusing their power. Every serious attempt by any of their Arab neighbors has yielded an agreement. In may instances, it includes trading land for a chance at ceasation of hostilities. The unending war is the result of the Arab countries and other Muslim entities have no intent of letting Israel exist. I don't think you have any clue whatyou are talking about.

You gotta love the back and fourth rhetoric though. LOL

You do not know the middle east if that's how you analyze things. Israel isn't 'stubborn', as you put it. They are not abusing their power. Every serious attempt by any of their Arab neighbors has yielded an agreement. In may instances, it includes trading land for a chance at ceasation of hostilities. The unending war is the result of the Arab countries and other Muslim entities have no intent of letting Israel exist. I don't think you have any clue whatyou are talking about.

ok, if it makes you happy to think that way...so be it. tell me, have you ever lived in that region, witnessed the views of both sides, and witnessed the conflict yourself? israel's existence isnt questioned by nations for the hell of it.

מפגר מי ששם את התמונה למעלה
מה לא מספיק יש לנו שונאים

חולרה
מי שישמע הם צדיקים אולי תראה טלויזיה הם הרגו לנו עכשיו 5 חיילים כפיצצו מנהרה מתחת מוצב

ok, if it makes you happy to think that way...so be it. tell me, have you ever lived in that region, witnessed the views of both sides, and witnessed the conflict yourself? israel's existence isnt questioned by nations for the hell of it.

Israel's existence is questioned because its the easy way out. What's another human sacrifice of 6 million when you can curry favor in the Arab world and keep the spicket going? And as far as having to be the uber-responsible party, what the Euro-weenies are asking of the Israelis is insane. If Israel took Europe's advice it would be a death pact, basically equivalent to laying down to die. But hey, then the Europeans get to have their Jews exactly how they like em; in museums filled with pictures of the dead. Jews make good museum pieces, but statehood......get real.

Its time to face facts that Jews constitute a nation, and that Israel will not bow down to her implacable enemies. The Palestinians want a state? Fine. But not at the expense of Israel, and there will be no peace until the Arabs come to terms with Jewish national existence in the middle east.

ok, if it makes you happy to think that way...so be it. tell me, have you ever lived in that region, witnessed the views of both sides, and witnessed the conflict yourself? israel's existence isnt questioned by nations for the hell of it.
Yes I have. And you are right about the reasons for those countires questioning Israel's exisitence. It is not just 'for the hell of it'. They question Israel's right to exist because either their own religion or their own pride cannot accept it. That much is perfectly clear.

i agree that the Arab nations are too damn proud, and are stubborn. I also believe the Jews deserve their own nation. but that simply doesnt justify their actions in the past few years....im not saying palestinians havnt done their share of unequal fighting...but let some country roll into US towns and homes - hell well go crazy! its a mess...i wish there was more intl attention to it all. also, another reason why ppl think israel should be more 'responsible' is that the number of dead palestinians greatly outnumber the other. also, "tanks vs. stones". Correct me if im wrong.. also, please tell me why Israelis' bulldoze homes. i just want a justified reason for that.

Israel bulldozes the homes of the families of suicide bombers as a deterrent to suicide bombers, so they will know what the result of their action on their family will be, and they bulldoze homes that are used by gunmen to shoot at Israelis. Does that answer your question? What would you do if you were in Israel's shoes?

i agree that the Arab nations are too damn proud, and are stubborn. I also believe the Jews deserve their own nation. but that simply doesnt justify their actions in the past few years....im not saying palestinians havnt done their share of unequal fighting...but let some country roll into US towns and homes - hell well go crazy! its a mess...i wish there was more intl attention to it all. also, another reason why ppl think israel should be more 'responsible' is that the number of dead palestinians greatly outnumber the other. also, "tanks vs. stones". Correct me if im wrong.. also, please tell me why Israelis' bulldoze homes. i just want a justified reason for that.
The problem with your assessment when you discuss 'the last few years' is that the last few years are not independent and disconnected from what has been happening for the past 55 years. If your assessment was accurate, then you would have to have found a general, regional acceptance of Israel's existence prior to 'the last few years'. And that is simply not the case. The present Israeli situation is one where they continue to play a defensive role trying to survive while their neighboring countries and internal Arab populations do whatever they can to destroy Israel. When the people of the region come to grips that Israel should and will exist, then Israel will interact with them accordingly. Until then, it is Israel on the defensive, not the Palestinians.

I agree with ugluk7, as do most Israeli's I think. Obviously Israel does have to defend itself, and the surrounding Arab nations have been anything but helpful. However, there can be no denying that Israel has gone too far. I generally support the American position in this regard. I just think that bulldozing homes, no matter the reason, can get us nowhere, and it definitely makes Palestine a horrible place, and horrible places breed extremism and hate. I understand Israel's anger (and Palestine's as well), but both sides need to show restraint before any peace will come about.

And, as I have always maintained, the settlements need to be taken down. I know this takes time, but I'd like to see a plan for dismantling them. I think Israel would gain a lot more international support if they attempted to end all of the things that people critisize them on- the settlements, extra-judicial killings, the route of the wall, destruction of homes, etc... As a friend pointed out to me, Israel seriously needs a new publicity department. The Palestinians have done an incredible job of getting international recognition for their cause, and at the same time Israel has lost a lot of international support.

I am impressed with Mahmoud Abbas so far. I think he may be just what Israel needs in Palestine in order to create peace, but just as Israel would not negotiate with a terror-supporting Arafat, Abbas cannot be expected to negotiate with Israel as long as it continues some of it's current policies. I'm currently very optimistic about the outcome of this whole situation, but if history is any indicator, my optimism will be crushed in the future. Let's hope that's not the case.

I agree with ugluk7, as do most Israeli's I think. Obviously Israel does have to defend itself, and the surrounding Arab nations have been anything but helpful. However, there can be no denying that Israel has gone too far. I generally support the American position in this regard. I just think that bulldozing homes, no matter the reason, can get us nowhere, and it definitely makes Palestine a horrible place, and horrible places breed extremism and hate. I understand Israel's anger (and Palestine's as well), but both sides need to show restraint before any peace will come about.

And, as I have always maintained, the settlements need to be taken down. I know this takes time, but I'd like to see a plan for dismantling them. I think Israel would gain a lot more international support if they attempted to end all of the things that people critisize them on- the settlements, extra-judicial killings, the route of the wall, destruction of homes, etc... As a friend pointed out to me, Israel seriously needs a new publicity department. The Palestinians have done an incredible job of getting international recognition for their cause, and at the same time Israel has lost a lot of international support.

I am impressed with Mahmoud Abbas so far. I think he may be just what Israel needs in Palestine in order to create peace, but just as Israel would not negotiate with a terror-supporting Arafat, Abbas cannot be expected to negotiate with Israel as long as it continues some of it's current policies. I'm currently very optimistic about the outcome of this whole situation, but if history is any indicator, my optimism will be crushed in the future. Let's hope that's not the case.
If you want a lull in hostilities, place your faith in Sharon and Abbas. If you want peace, you are looking the wrong direction.

The problem with your assessment when you discuss 'the last few years' is that the last few years are not independent and disconnected from what has been happening for the past 55 years. If your assessment was accurate, then you would have to have found a general, regional acceptance of Israel's existence prior to 'the last few years'. And that is simply not the case. The present Israeli situation is one where they continue to play a defensive role trying to survive while their neighboring countries and internal Arab populations do whatever they can to destroy Israel. When the people of the region come to grips that Israel should and will exist, then Israel will interact with them accordingly. Until then, it is Israel on the defensive, not the Palestinians.

yes, there are times when israelis have the right to defend themselves, i havnt argued against that. but 55 years of struggling doesnt give them the right to crap the lives of young palestinians - which no educated person can deny. btw, the dirty politics being played there are to vaque for u, me, neone to correctly assess the problem. theres a lot more ugliness to it than we see

Israel bulldozes the homes of the families of suicide bombers as a deterrent to suicide bombers, so they will know what the result of their action on their family will be, and they bulldoze homes that are used by gunmen to shoot at Israelis. Does that answer your question? What would you do if you were in Israel's shoes?

yeah, to make more angry palestinians and suicide bombers - an utterly stupid way to deter trouble. and those young palestinian kids? they see their brother's homes being bulldozed, and some friends dead from shelling. what would you do if u were in their shoes? shoot or not? see, its a mess - easy for us to sit here and provide commentary, but something to be in the middle of hell.

If you want a lull in hostilities, place your faith in Sharon and Abbas. If you want peace, you are looking the wrong direction.

Why don't you tell us what your vision of a "peaceful solution" is?

yeah, to make more angry palestinians and suicide bombers - an utterly stupid way to deter trouble. and those young palestinian kids? they see their brother's homes being bulldozed, and some friends dead from shelling. what would you do if u were in their shoes? shoot or not? see, its a mess - easy for us to sit here and provide commentary, but something to be in the middle of hell.

Yet you still were completely unable to answer the question. Once again, you place all of the responsibility on the Israelis and none on the Palestinians. According to you, how exactly would Israelis be able to defend themselves?? No matter what they do the criticism from Europe is neverending, and you wonder why Israelis don't even listen to you guys anymore.
Actually look at the criticism leveled at Israel over the last couple of years. Kill terrorists and you are using disproportionate force. Have checkpoints to find people trying to kill Israelis and you are humiliating the Palestinians. Blow up tunnels trying to smuggle weapons in and you are murderers. Build a fence to separate you from those who are trying to kill you and you are creating an apartheid racist state, even though the other side still doesn't even respect your right to exist. After all of this and you think that Israel can see the EU and Europeans in general as evenhanded.
Israel remembers the outcry from Europe when Yassin was killed, and as the "spiritual" leader of Hamas how was he anything but a military target?????? So please...go back to the Europe board and kvetch about Israel there, but the unqualified measure of criticism of one tiny state is not gonna get you much sympathy on this board.

So please...go back to the Europe board and kvetch about Israel there, but the unqualified measure of criticism of one tiny state is not gonna get you much sympathy on this board.

one tiny state? hey, its big enough to have nukes. i never said nething abt palestinians not sharing some of the guilt. but, u make it seem as if the israelis havnt done wrong. admit thier faults, cause there are plenty of them. if u truly think all israel wants is to defend itself, then ur too naive. as i said before, both sides are using dirty politics for their own interests. as far as the number of dead on each side, "tank vs. stones", and all those suicide bombers are concerned, its up to ur intellect to decide which side deserves more sympathy.

What do nukes have to do with anything? Israel's nukes are used as a measure of deterrence, because we all know what Israel's oh so civilized neighbors would be plotting if they didn't have them. As far as admitting fault and whatnot, look at your own country whereever you are. I'm sure you have plenty of your own problems to deal with instead of harping on Israel's. It's unbelievable how everyone in the world thinks they have the right to dictate to Israel, a sovereign nation, how it should act in both its domestic and foreign policies. Stop preaching and maybe you'll get an audience, until then you just keep showing why most Israelis feel that Europe is just completely out of touch with the real world, and that the real and legitimate concerns of Israelis mean nothing to them.

one tiny state? hey, its big enough to have nukes. i never said nething abt palestinians not sharing some of the guilt. but, u make it seem as if the israelis havnt done wrong. admit thier faults, cause there are plenty of them. if u truly think all israel wants is to defend itself, then ur too naive. as i said before, both sides are using dirty politics for their own interests. as far as the number of dead on each side, "tank vs. stones", and all those suicide bombers are concerned, its up to ur intellect to decide which side deserves more sympathy.

Stones Vs Tanks is utterly a Palestinien interest, like that they get the audience's sympathy, and youre falling right into the propagandas trap. Tanks wouldnt have been there unless terror existed and these stones are a part of terror, they first started throwing these stones on people who paryed in the western wall in Jerusalem so it was 'Books Vs Stones' but nobody complained about that did they? for some reason NOW when those exactly same stones face something far stronger and more dangerous than books the whole world wakes up in criticism. You know why all of this happens? because the world is a hypocrite being, they wont criticize what needs to be criticized, theyll only accuse those who are easy to be pointed out as responsible, the weaker side isnt always the right one and vice versa. Israel had made peace in the past, so its clearly capable of doing so again, its the Palestiniens who have no aliby to whether or not they can ,in fact, make peace.


And as for Europe - Im living in Europe and I see whats going on around here, its all nice and noble to claim you oppose wars and blah. But let me assure you one thing: If tomorrow there is a terrorist attack in Paris, Berlin Or Vienna , its going to be the Europeans who will crush the place the terror attack comes from the first thing after it happens, So I suggest European nations to sit still, because their crimes against Humanity in the Middle east, Africa,Asia and Europe itself are far g reater from anything Israel has and would ever do...

Stones Vs Tanks is utterly a Palestinien interest, like that they get the audience's sympathy

Just the same way those suicide bombers kill themselves, to get the world's sympathy.

who said nething abt me being european ugluk7? just cause i argue against israeli occupation? im american, in case u were impying otherwise. plus, i dont need an audience to feel im right. i know what im talking abt, but its strange to see people view the whole ordeal as solely a "terrorist" problem. to me, thats more israeli propaganda for justifying the crap they do. is there terrorism from the palestinian side? sure. i wont argue that. but is israel's "defense" legitimate? no. both sides want their land, both sides have a grudge against each other. both will do whatever it takes. but the number of homes, civilians dead - i dont think so - just not right. no matter what u say, cant justify that. people are people, and to think that these palestinian fighters live for killing and terror is too damn naive. theres something to it that we cant understand unless were in their shoes.

Yes, its called brainwashing

yes, there are times when israelis have the right to defend themselves, i havnt argued against that. but 55 years of struggling doesnt give them the right to crap the lives of young palestinians - which no educated person can deny. btw, the dirty politics being played there are to vaque for u, me, neone to correctly assess the problem. theres a lot more ugliness to it than we see
Again, you want to untie the role of Palestinians today from their role of the past 55 years, and you cannot do so. The plight of the palestinians is a result of their insistance that Israel needs to be destroyed. There has been no palestinian leader who has been willing to negotiate a reasonable end of hostilties with Israel. Arafat could not, in the end, accept israel's existence. There have been no other leader who uses anything but the gun with regards to Israel. The other Arab countries have no unifying voice. The Palestinians' plight is more a result of their having been used as pawns by other Arab regimes than by anything Israel has done. You tell me, why is thier plight in the Lebanese camps one of squallor? Certainly it is not Israel keeping them there. The other Arab countries have doe nothing to ease their situation. As a matter of fact, the other Arab countries have lobbied the UN to maintain the Palestinians' staus as refugees rather than help them integrate. No other people in the world have been treated like this. Ever. They are pawns of their own people. And the monies that have been given to the PLA were squandered by Arafat tnd his thugs. His cronnies drive vehicles that cost $80,000 while his people have nothing.

who said nething abt me being european ugluk7? just cause i argue against israeli occupation? im american, in case u were impying otherwise. plus, i dont need an audience to feel im right. i know what im talking abt, but its strange to see people view the whole ordeal as solely a "terrorist" problem. to me, thats more israeli propaganda for justifying the crap they do. is there terrorism from the palestinian side? sure. i wont argue that. but is israel's "defense" legitimate? no. both sides want their land, both sides have a grudge against each other. both will do whatever it takes. but the number of homes, civilians dead - i dont think so - just not right. no matter what u say, cant justify that. people are people, and to think that these palestinian fighters live for killing and terror is too damn naive. theres something to it that we cant understand unless were in their shoes.
Why do insist on being so myopic. If you do not know what the word means, look it up.

You continue toisolate what you see in front of your face and pretend you understand it even though you have no understand or acknowledgement of where it came from or how it continues to be.

It leaves me with only a few ways to understand you. You may be unable to grasp the bigger picture because of your age or intelligence level. Or, you may simply be committed to a very anti-Jewish perspective in life. Either way, it is a shame.

young, intelligence level, brainwashed??? haha, man, this is getting hostile. but it strikes me how u guys constantly say "again, u place all the blame on the israelis...awwww..." when ur all just placing all the blame on the palestinians. i myself have said that the palestinians do have much fault - and i never said nething abt praising its leadership - i myself hate it. not once did yall try to think from both sides perspectives - rather how the israels need to do this...for this...victims...blah blah. thats brainwashing if u ask me. i dont hate jews, i have many jewish friends. but when they also hate israel's methods - u cant just call it brainwashing. rather, its something called intellect or a sense of morality.

young, intelligence level, brainwashed??? haha, man, this is getting hostile. but it strikes me how u guys constantly say "again, u place all the blame on the israelis...awwww..." when ur all just placing all the blame on the palestinians. i myself have said that the palestinians do have much fault - and i never said nething abt praising its leadership - i myself hate it. not once did yall try to think from both sides perspectives - rather how the israels need to do this...for this...victims...blah blah. thats brainwashing if u ask me. i dont hate jews, i have many jewish friends. but when they also hate israel's methods - u cant just call it brainwashing. rather, its something called intellect or a sense of morality.
Even this response is myopic. Stop describing this issue as an Israeli-Palestinian one. It is an Israeli-Arab issue. I am not condoning all the actions the Israeli government has taken in its struggle to simply survive as a nation. However, until it is clear to the Arab world that Israel is a reality and can exist, Israel will continue to have to be defensive. Israel will always choose to error on the side of being overly protective, as it should. The stakes are too high and the result of an under-played response could be the destruction of Israel. You can say that Israel, as the powerful one with regards to the Palestinians, should 'do what's right' and let them have their 'rights'. That is utter nonsense. It is totally based on an assumption that the only issue is the Israeli-Palestinian issue. And that is absurd.

When Israel attacks Iran you could be sure that other muslim nations will join the war...so will the USA. And that would result in some kind of 3rd world war. (at least in the loss of uncountable human beings).

You´re talking like babies who don´t understand a shit. "OOOHHH....Israel has the bigger penis...It wipes off Iran...wow weapons. Let´s be trolls and think that´s the co0ler3st"

You don't understand politics over there...The Muslim divid means something...not to mention the fact that Israel already attacked someones nuke facilities...no one seemed to join a war against Israel for it...Iran couldn't touch Israel with anything...and if they tried to go by ground there would be a country named Iraq in the way. I country that has no love for Iran and a country that has a large number of US forces in it.

Theres also a little country cold Jordan on the way, one which has peace agreements with Israel, one which will not welcome the Irani soldiers with flowers and chocolates, but with guns and shields.

As a Canadian Muslim I'd like to add some words that might be more progressive towards peace between the Jewish and the larger Islamic world.

The Israeli-Palestinian conflict that we witness can't be described as a completely religious conflict. Infact Palestinian nationalism is the backbone of all resistance against Israeli institutions whether it be government or private. What we witness today is a tragic event in which a group of people such as the Palestinians lack basic human rights that us Canadians enjoy in our constitution as well as a nation such as Israel that is sincerly concerned for its existence.

Lets look at it from the perspective of a Jewish Individual.

Since the establishment of even basic civilizations our Jewish brethrens have been persecuted and have been victims of some very cruel regimes. The most obvious being Hitler's Regime but even going as far back to the Assyrians we witness the Hebrew people being persecuted. To be honest A nation and a group of people that have gone through so much collectively, should by now have evolved into a group that prizes freedom and a nation to call home. That is Why i support the existence of a Jewish state.

If we have any respect for history and humanity we must provide the Hebrew people with security, History tends to repeat itself and the Jewish people for whatever reason have been targetted countless times over and over again.

Religiously the two groups of peoples have co existed numerous times. The Star of David itself was a direct result of Andalusian muslims asking the leaders of the Jewish community to adopt a symbol that was as far as "idoltary" as possible. At the time Geometry was prized by muslims and the Star of David fit the bill perfectly. Ask any Rabbi as to when Jews lived in peace and prosperity they will tell you, That the Islamic rule of Andalusia was truly a great time for all three monotheistic religions and Judaism under Islamic leadership was thriving in all dimensions. If muslims and Jews could once live in peace and prosperity what is stopping them from doing the same today??, Truly Islam's golden era was when cultural exchanges and tolerance was being practiced.

From a Palestinian perspective, what is happening with them truly is a humanitarian disaster. Human rights are next to nothing and it only gets more tragic as the time goes on. Democracy and freedom must be brought to the Palestinian people.

The irony of it all really is that even with the First hand experience by the jewish community of being persecuted countless times in the past and lacking human rights and security, they fail to address the same issues that are now being faced by Palestinians.

May God bless all his creations to find prosperity and peace amongst each other, Let the Land of Milk and Honey find peace once and for all.

Amen

Very True, I dont think anyone could ever object or disapprove of what you just said. I wish there were more people like you not only in Israel but in the world. I join your prayers.....Ron

Theres also a little country cold Jordan on the way, one which has peace agreements with Israel, one which will not welcome the Irani soldiers with flowers and chocolates, but with guns and shields.


the Jordanien royal family has enough problems of its own, dont be so sure that they are able to face a foreign army who will try to enter their land, and frankly, i dont think they are able to prevent such a thing.

You don't understand politics over there...The Muslim divid means something...not to mention the fact that Israel already attacked someones nuke facilities...no one seemed to join a war against Israel for it...Iran couldn't touch Israel with anything...and if they tried to go by ground there would be a country named Iraq in the way. I country that has no love for Iran and a country that has a large number of US forces in it.
Iran would not go by ground. They would send missiles. Iran has already stated if it gained nuclear capability it would not hold back from destroying Israel. They said that they did not care if many Muslims were also destroyed since their were millions and millions more Muslims elsewhere in the world.

As a Canadian Muslim I'd like to add some words that might be more progressive towards peace between the Jewish and the larger Islamic world.

The Israeli-Palestinian conflict that we witness can't be described as a completely religious conflict. Infact Palestinian nationalism is the backbone of all resistance against Israeli institutions whether it be government or private. What we witness today is a tragic event in which a group of people such as the Palestinians lack basic human rights that us Canadians enjoy in our constitution as well as a nation such as Israel that is sincerly concerned for its existence.

Lets look at it from the perspective of a Jewish Individual.

Since the establishment of even basic civilizations our Jewish brethrens have been persecuted and have been victims of some very cruel regimes. The most obvious being Hitler's Regime but even going as far back to the Assyrians we witness the Hebrew people being persecuted. To be honest A nation and a group of people that have gone through so much collectively, should by now have evolved into a group that prizes freedom and a nation to call home. That is Why i support the existence of a Jewish state.

If we have any respect for history and humanity we must provide the Hebrew people with security, History tends to repeat itself and the Jewish people for whatever reason have been targetted countless times over and over again.

Religiously the two groups of peoples have co existed numerous times. The Star of David itself was a direct result of Andalusian muslims asking the leaders of the Jewish community to adopt a symbol that was as far as "idoltary" as possible. At the time Geometry was prized by muslims and the Star of David fit the bill perfectly. Ask any Rabbi as to when Jews lived in peace and prosperity they will tell you, That the Islamic rule of Andalusia was truly a great time for all three monotheistic religions and Judaism under Islamic leadership was thriving in all dimensions. If muslims and Jews could once live in peace and prosperity what is stopping them from doing the same today??, Truly Islam's golden era was when cultural exchanges and tolerance was being practiced.

From a Palestinian perspective, what is happening with them truly is a humanitarian disaster. Human rights are next to nothing and it only gets more tragic as the time goes on. Democracy and freedom must be brought to the Palestinian people.

The irony of it all really is that even with the First hand experience by the jewish community of being persecuted countless times in the past and lacking human rights and security, they fail to address the same issues that are now being faced by Palestinians.

May God bless all his creations to find prosperity and peace amongst each other, Let the Land of Milk and Honey find peace once and for all.

Amen
Your words are interesting. However, you need to look at the current situation as it really is and not how you want it to be. The ongoing confict, one in which the Palestinians are included, is the Arab-Israeli conflict. There never was an Israeli-Palestinian conflict. You cannot simply unhook the parts of the Arab world in their struggle against Israel. It is possible that the Arab-Israeli conflict is more a nationalism issue than a religous one. It may be, to some extent. But it is also a religous issue.

But I share your hopes when you say. "May God bless all his creations to find prosperity and peace amongst each other, Let the Land of Milk and Honey find peace once and for all."

Here is what I understand would lead to a resolution of the conflict:

An independent Palestinian state made up of East Jerusalem (as its capital), the West Bank, and the Gaza strip.
This would be the same as a return to pre-1967 borders.

East Jerusalem is a critical issue for Palestinians. It is the Arab half of Jerusalem, with a pre-dominantly Arab population.


The right of return for all Palestinian refugees. This is supported by United Nations resolutions as well as human rights organizations such as Human Rights Watch.
There are currently almost four million Palestinian refugees registered with UNRWA, and seven to eight million Palestinians world-wide.


Some form of compensation for refugees whose lands and houses were confiscated, stolen, demolished, etc. when Palestine was partitioned.
Palestine was partitioned, literally cut in half. Palestinians had homes and lands, which their families had lived in and owned for generations, which overnight, and without their consent, became part of a new state called Israel.


The closure of all illegal settlements (as defined by the United Nations) on Palestinian land.
The settlements are an attempt by Israel to segregate all areas of Palestinian land in order to make an independent Palestinian state impossible.

The settlements have had an oppressive and humiliating effect on the day to day lives of Palestinians, and have created deep resentment and anger.

Here is what I understand would lead to a resolution of the conflict:

An independent Palestinian state made up of East Jerusalem (as its capital), the West Bank, and the Gaza strip.
This would be the same as a return to pre-1967 borders.

East Jerusalem is a critical issue for Palestinians. It is the Arab half of Jerusalem, with a pre-dominantly Arab population.
Just because there is an arab majority in that part of the city doesnt mean it should be given to them, let alone as a capital. there are many cities with a majority of some ethnic group of people who are not necessarily locals, they do not go any ownership on the land, if that thesis is valid jews should get ownership on many places in the west bank, Gaza strip and New York City.


The right of return for all Palestinian refugees. This is supported by United Nations resolutions as well as human rights organizations such as Human Rights Watch.
There are currently almost four million Palestinian refugees registered with UNRWA, and seven to eight million Palestinians world-wide.
The Palaestiniens have no right to return to the state of Israel, they can be given the right to live ONLY in the yet to be Palestinien state, but hoping for Israels acceptence to let all those millions to move in Israel is a dream in vain, Israel will never let this happen for it must not lose its jewish character which is already being threatened anyway.


Some form of compensation for refugees whose lands and houses were confiscated, stolen, demolished, etc. when Palestine was partitioned.
Palestine was partitioned, literally cut in half. Palestinians had homes and lands, which their families had lived in and owned for generations, which overnight, and without their consent, became part of a new state called Israel.
That isnt for Israel to pay, the land of Israel was divided in 1947 by the United Nations, the whole world was a witness, it wasnt even an Israeli decision ,therefore the UN should give them a compesation if such is ever given.


The closure of all illegal settlements (as defined by the United Nations) on Palestinian land.
The settlements are an attempt by Israel to segregate all areas of Palestinian land in order to make an independent Palestinian state impossible.

The settlements have had an oppressive and humiliating effect on the day to day lives of Palestinians, and have created deep resentment and anger.

Would you call the arabs who lived in the yet to be Israel on the pro Israel times am 'attempt to segregate all areas in Israeli land in order to make a Jewish state impossible'? There is no way any nation could kick 250.000 out of their homes, the only way to solve this is to either do mutual territory changing or to accept those jews as full citizens in the Palestinien state (which is what Israel did with arabs who lived in its territory in 1948)


What you did is pointing out the problems and not resolving them, you basically gave the Palestiniens all they wish for and gave Israel nothing in return. If Israels gives Jerusalem away and in addition let millions of Palestiniens into its own soil the whole purpose of the Jewish state is gone. I do not say that Israel shouldnt compromise, but compromise must be mutual and equal and this is far from being the case...
Shalom, Ron

Here is what I understand would lead to a resolution of the conflict:

An independent Palestinian state made up of East Jerusalem (as its capital), the West Bank, and the Gaza strip.
This would be the same as a return to pre-1967 borders.

East Jerusalem is a critical issue for Palestinians. It is the Arab half of Jerusalem, with a pre-dominantly Arab population.


The right of return for all Palestinian refugees. This is supported by United Nations resolutions as well as human rights organizations such as Human Rights Watch.
There are currently almost four million Palestinian refugees registered with UNRWA, and seven to eight million Palestinians world-wide.


Some form of compensation for refugees whose lands and houses were confiscated, stolen, demolished, etc. when Palestine was partitioned.
Palestine was partitioned, literally cut in half. Palestinians had homes and lands, which their families had lived in and owned for generations, which overnight, and without their consent, became part of a new state called Israel.


The closure of all illegal settlements (as defined by the United Nations) on Palestinian land.
The settlements are an attempt by Israel to segregate all areas of Palestinian land in order to make an independent Palestinian state impossible.

The settlements have had an oppressive and humiliating effect on the day to day lives of Palestinians, and have created deep resentment and anger.
Shahid, your post was written with some well thought out ideas. However, many are incorrect.

The right of return is not supported by the UN. UN resolution 242 does not call for their return. Nor does 242 call for the return of the 67 borders. UN 242 calls for a negotiated agreement.

Regarding the number of refugees you mentioned, the UN has only recognized the individuals who were misplaced during a political upheaval, not their children. The Palestinian situation is the first time anyone has tried to include the children. Refugee status, as given by the UN, has always, only, refered to those individuals misplaced. It is not even clear if the Arabs who left during 48 and 67 should be considered refugees based on historical intent of that status, and the manner in which partition, and invasion played a role in the people leaving their homes.

Basically, as long as the Arab world thinks that the Palestinians deserve to have both Israel and Palestine, there can not be a solution. There must be an agreement before this thing moves forward.

Shahid, your post was written with some well thought out ideas. However, many are incorrect.

The right of return is not supported by the UN. UN resolution 242 does not call for their return. Nor does 242 call for the return of the 67 borders. UN 242 calls for a negotiated agreement.

Regrading the number of refugees you mentioned, the UN has only recognized the individuals who were misplaced during a political upheaval, not their children. The Palestinian situation is the first time anyone has tried to include the children. Refugee status, as given by the UN, has always, only, refered to those individuals misplaced. It is not even clear if the Arabs who left during 48 and 67 should be considered refugees based on historical intent of that status.

Basically, as long as the Arab world thinks that the Palestinians deserve to have both Israel and Palestine, there can not be a solution. There must be an agreement before this thing moves forward.

I dont not agree, everything I said is fact/truth.

You will need to do more research, you getting all the ideas from your familes and media, thats brainwashed.

I dont not agree, everything I said is fact/truth.

You will need to do more research, you getting all the ideas from your familes and media, thats brainwashed.
All you have to do is read 242. I am not brainwashed on this issue at all. You cannot point out your issues with any backup materials. Sorry to disappoint you.

All it means is that the Arabs have to change their expectations. Many of the sources that many Arab or Palestinian backers bring as support are misquoted or misunderstood. 242 is a very good example. Israel is only looking for at least a level playing field in which to negotiate in a very hostile environment. It certainly is not expected to also misinterpret those resolutions in order to understand them in the manner many others 'hoped' them to read. Those resolutions were carefully crafted to say exactly what is meant. Popular opinion and revisionary thinking after the fact is not binding on anyone, including Israel, to adhere to.

Aside from the resolutions, Arabs are welcome in Israel. There is nothing stopping Arabs from being there. It is only when the intent is to destroy Israel that a problem comes up.

Why doesnt Israel offer to give up its MASSIVE nuclear stockpiles in exchange for Iran and all the surrounding countries doing the same? Israel can't have its cake and eat it too.

Why doesnt Israel offer to give up its MASSIVE nuclear stockpiles in exchange for Iran and all the surrounding countries doing the same? Israel can't have its cake and eat it too.
That is not a smart idea. One of the only reasons some of the neighboring countries are reluctant to attack Israel, which they desire greatly, is the deterrence associated with Israel's supposed Nuclear capability. Where as Iran has stated they could be willing to drop nuclear weapons on Israel even if it means the death of millions of Muslims also. They said there are plenty of Muslims throughout the world, but not many Jewish people. Israel doesn't threaten countries with its nuclear capability. Israel doesn't even admit to having nuclear capabilities, let alone threaten other countries with it.

That is not a smart idea. One of the only reasons some of the neighboring countries are reluctant to attack Israel, which they desire greatly, is the deterrence associated with Israel's supposed Nuclear capability. Where as Iran has stated they could be willing to drop nuclear weapons on Israel even if it means the death of millions of Muslims also. They said there are plenty of Muslims throughout the world, but not many Jewish people. Israel doesn't threaten countries with its nuclear capability. Israel doesn't even admit to having nuclear capabilities, let alone threaten other countries with it.

Yeah hey don't get me wrong, I'd prefer if no one had them, and sure, I can 'kinda' see why they might need ONE or TWO, but not the estimated 200+ they do have. And I think not admitting to having them is just plain pathetic.

Yeah hey don't get me wrong, I'd prefer if no one had them, and sure, I can 'kinda' see why they might need ONE or TWO, but not the estimated 200+ they do have. And I think not admitting to having them is just plain pathetic.
I think having to defend your very existence for 55 years non stop is pathetic. I think not admitting there existence of nukes is good. I don;t see why they should admit it. If they do not have them, don;t say anything because they loose an advantage over enemies trying to destroy them. If they have them and admit it, what benefit is there for them? Why do you say its pathetic?

attack Iran!

they have been causing trouble for everyone including Pakistan!

attack Iran!

they have been causing trouble for everyone including Pakistan!


:fiddle::fiddle:

:fiddle::fiddle:
you can not begin to understand how much crap goes on in Iran!

The religious leaders shut anyone they want up with the secret police and freking imagine them with nukes!

they are irresponsible to have nukes!

:fiddle::fiddle:

Yeah keep on playing it...it's a fact though.

Gwadar Port is of no interest to them; why? Because Abbas Port is currently the only port connecting Central Asia with the sea. Once Gwadar opens in a few months all those Central Asian Nations will use Gwadar. Not in the best interest of Iran; that's why they've been encouraging people in Balochistan to cause trouble. I wouldn't be surprised if they were Irani themselves; see what I mean?

All I can say is...Iran ain't a friend to us and it became apparent alongside with Libya last year. So personally I wouldn't mind seeing Iran get flattened...

Seems like Pakistanis have a somewhat different opinion than other arabs, am I correct?

Seems like Pakistanis have a somewhat different opinion than other arabs, am I correct?

Only the musharraf type pakistanis have other view. Ask people like zuhahmed and Hyperion (also pakistani) about their view about Isreal.

Only the musharraf type pakistanis have other view. Ask people like zuhahmed and Hyperion (also pakistani) about their view about Isreal.

Oh really?

Then I guess it's the growing majority you speak of.

86% Pakistanis support Musharraf: Survey
September 13, 2004 20:10 IST

As many as 86 per cent Pakistanis support President General Pervez Musharraf for his policies at home and abroad, according to a survey carried out by a Washington-based research institute.

Majority of Pakistanis, about 86 per cent, rate Musharraf 'favourably', while 60 per cent have a 'very favourable' opinion about their president, official media said quoting a survey done by the Pew Research Institute.

"This is by far the highest rating of any leader in the survey," official media quoted poll director Andrew Kohut as saying.

Musharraf also enjoyed positive ratings in Turkey and his people surveyed in Britain, the United States, Russia, and Jordan were evenly divided in their views about the Pakistan president.

The survey was conducted in nine other countries, asking a randomly selected group of people questions on various subjects ranging from the war in Iraq to their opinion about their own leaders and about other major US allies in the war on terror.


Just because we are Muslims dosen't mean we have to support everything Arab countries do. Don't use our religion to carry our your own god damn agenda you freaks and don't make this into an "Islamic" issue when infact it's just a Middle East conflict. You don't help us with our problems why should the hell should we help you?

Secondly, I'm all for seeing Iran getting flatened like a pancake; that was the same country in which WE gave them technology and instead of keeping quiet they do the oppisate thinking America won't attack...good luck. Hope to see Libya go down next as well...

Iran threatens to wipe Israel off map? ...Its about time. :sly: :)

Oh really?

Then I guess it's the growing majority you speak of.

86% Pakistanis support Musharraf: Survey
September 13, 2004 20:10 IST

As many as 86 per cent Pakistanis support President General Pervez Musharraf for his policies at home and abroad, according to a survey carried out by a Washington-based research institute.

The survey was conducted in nine other countries, asking a randomly selected group of people questions on various subjects ranging from the war in Iraq to their opinion about their own leaders and about other major US allies in the war on terror.


Just because we are Muslims dosen't mean we have to support everything Arab countries do. Don't use our religion to carry our your own god damn agenda you freaks and don't make this into an "Islamic" issue when infact it's just a Middle East conflict. You don't help us with our problems why should the hell should we help you?

Secondly, I'm all for seeing Iran getting flatened like a pancake; that was the same country in which WE gave them technology and instead of keeping quiet they do the oppisate thinking America won't attack...good luck. Hope to see Libya go down next as well...


Same as 99,99% supported sadddam and 100% supports Mubarak. I hate Musharraf (this is my view) but I definatly woudnt like it to have a war against Pakistan just because musharraf is a bitch.

Same as I hate Muammar Al Gathafy (Libya president) and the Irani Regim. they are all in the same basket (for me). That doesnt allow me to support fighting and declare war against them.

Do people have to suffer just because their regiem is bad.

One more thing, there is an islamic base saying u cannot co-op with a non-muslim against a muslim. That applies in the Iraq war now. Saddam is way better than George Bush. My country is included in the bitching also as it co-operated with the US against Iraq in the war.

Same as 99,99% supported sadddam and 100% supports Mubarak. I hate Musharraf (this is my view) but I definatly woudnt like it to have a war just because musharraf is a bitch.]

99.99% supported Saddam? So what that poll was done in there own respective countries it's obvious why they had such "high" popularity! This poll on Musharraf was done by the Washington based Pew Research Institute.

Why do you hate Musharraf tell me what has he done so "bad" that makes him a "bitch"?

Same as I hate Muammar Al Gathafy (Libya president) and the Irani Regim. they are all in the same basket (for me). That doesnt allow me to support fighting and declare war against them.

It does for me; they play games with us then you deserve to bombed the hell out of. Interesting how the "kaafir evil" nation of North Korea has still kept quite after all this time yet our "islamic brother" nations didn't...so much for the ummah.

99.99% supported Saddam? So what that poll was done in there own respective countries it's obvious why they had such "high" popularity! This poll on Musharraf was done by the Washington based Pew Research Institute.

It was being sacrasm

It does for me; they play games with us then you deserve to bombed the hell out of. Interesting how the "kaafir evil" nation of North Korea has still kept quite after all this time yet our "islamic brother" nations didn't...so much for the ummah.

I didnt understand ur last post. But in short what our islamic brothers includng my country against Iraq doesnt mean its right. We have an islamic base and me and u as indivisual muslim should support it. Just because my country supported the war doesnt mean its the right thing to do.

Iran threatens to wipe Israel off map? ...Its about time. :sly: :)
Pardon me? What is about time?

Same as 99,99% supported sadddam and 100% supports Mubarak. I hate Musharraf (this is my view) but I definatly woudnt like it to have a war against Pakistan just because musharraf is a bitch.

Same as I hate Muammar Al Gathafy (Libya president) and the Irani Regim. they are all in the same basket (for me). That doesnt allow me to support fighting and declare war against them.

Do people have to suffer just because their regiem is bad.

One more thing, there is an islamic base saying u cannot co-op with a non-muslim against a muslim. That applies in the Iraq war now. Saddam is way better than George Bush. My country is included in the bitching also as it co-operated with the US against Iraq in the war.
it isnt your country so we dont give a hoot if you dont like Musharaf!

It was being sacrasm



I didnt understand ur last post. But in short what our islamic brothers includng my country against Iraq doesnt mean its right. We have an islamic base and me and u as indivisual muslim should support it. Just because my country supported the war doesnt mean its the right thing to do.
what are you talking about?

WHAT ABOUT THE PAKISTANI WHOSE NECK WAS CUT OFF BY THE IRAQI TERRORISTS?

WHEN AND WHERE WAS MUSLIM BROTHERHOOD THEN?

OHH I FORGOT THIER IS NO SUCH THING!

WHAT ABOUT THE PAKISTANI WHOSE NECK WAS CUT OFF BY THE IRAQI TERRORISTS?

WHEN AND WHERE WAS MUSLIM BROTHERHOOD THEN?

OHH I FORGOT THIER IS NO SUCH THING!

It is a bitty you are judging Muslims by minorities actions!! I mean if your brother killed another guy do you judge his parents and the whole family for his actions?

Anyway Iran is a great country and I love it dearly!

Can u blame all these Middle Eastern countries for hating Israel? I mean u invaded Lebanon (why?) you wont give Palestine thier own state (why?) and youve killed so many people...basically genocide.

I saw this documentary last night on what you did to the Lebanese people...You Israeli's are like bullies...sorry to offend im just so disturbed by what you did to those innocent Lebanese in Khiam...

what are you talking about?

WHAT ABOUT THE PAKISTANI WHOSE NECK WAS CUT OFF BY THE IRAQI TERRORISTS?

WHEN AND WHERE WAS MUSLIM BROTHERHOOD THEN?

OHH I FORGOT THIER IS NO SUCH THING!



I guess olivetouch answered. I really dont understand ur logic pakistani members but anyway this is the Israeli forum.

Can u blame all these Middle Eastern countries for hating Israel? I mean u invaded Lebanon (why?) you wont give Palestine thier own state (why?) and youve killed so many people...basically genocide.

I saw this documentary last night on what you did to the Lebanese people...You Israeli's are like bullies...sorry to offend im just so disturbed by what you did to those innocent Lebanese in Khiam...

you should not watch crappy left-wing documnetaries. :no:

Pick up a book instead.

I followed a link to the bangali sub-fourm, this is where i ended up !?!

sorry i know the documentary was very biast but can someone explain the whole situation, why Israel invaded Lebanon?

thanks, it would be much appreciated

It is a bitty you are judging Muslims by minorities actions!! I mean if your brother killed another guy do you judge his parents and the whole family for his actions?

Anyway Iran is a great country and I love it dearly!

I suggest you ask smussuw that question with regards to Pakistanis...

Iran threatens to wipe Israel off map? ...Its about time. :sly: :)

nizey i think ur name should be changed to nazi.

Can u blame all these Middle Eastern countries for hating Israel? I mean u invaded Lebanon (why?) you wont give Palestine thier own state (why?) and youve killed so many people...basically genocide.

I saw this documentary last night on what you did to the Lebanese people...You Israeli's are like bullies...sorry to offend im just so disturbed by what you did to those innocent Lebanese in Khiam...

I saw the documentry aswell, and it was definately an eye opener, didnt know that they did half of what they did in the war against lebanon, shocking horrific, especially after what there mothers and fathers went thru in WWII came as a big suprise. I can see why the palestians and Israeli's wont agree on anything, but i dont see why they invaded lebanon, after WWII the last thing you would think would be in there best interests is to start a war, i mean i know they cant live in the shadow of WWII there whole existence, but even still. It just seems to me like there is too much hate in the arab world, and sadly i cant see it ever ending. Religion is a bad bad thing. This is my view i am not attempting to influence anyone or asking anyone to believe what i say, just my opinion.

yeh after seeing what the Israelites did to the Lebanese for what reason (srsly i dunno y they did it) i couldnt go to sleep...infact i hardly know anything about Israel but i felt like i hated the country after that...they really do seem like big bullies terribly sad...

Cant Israel just give Palestine its territory BACK and pull out of South Lebanon...they are already suffering as it is...

The documentary made Israeli's sound like the most evil people on Earth.

Can u blame all these Middle Eastern countries for hating Israel? I mean u invaded Lebanon (why?) you wont give Palestine thier own state (why?) and youve killed so many people...basically genocide.

I saw this documentary last night on what you did to the Lebanese people...You Israeli's are like bullies...sorry to offend im just so disturbed by what you did to those innocent Lebanese in Khiam...
KhApZ, I think someone is showing you distortions of the facts. The Palestinians and Arabs have been attacking Israel since 1948 and continue to threaten Israel's existence. The land you call Palestine was not taken by Israel from the Palestinians. Jordan took it from them in 1948. The Arabs themselves never allowed the Palestinians their own country. Israel has been looking for a peaceful existence since 1948 and never intended to take the area you call Palestine until Israel was attacked in 1967. Since then the Arab side has not been willing to agree to a comprehensive solution to the issues. Israel is within their international rights to protect themselves and force a negotiated settlement. That is the basic principle of UN Resolution 242.

There has never been a genocide caused by Israel. It is a shame you are told such lies. Israel entered Lebanon to rid it of the PLO. Lebanon was a beautiful and welathy country before the PLO came there after they were chased out of Jordan in a bloody war. Israel was not interested in Lebanon as a place to invade or occupy. it would be helpful if you learned history objectively.

The middle east countries have always hated Israel, since its existence in 1948. Do not mistake the sequence of events. You make it sound like Israel is hated because of Lebanon and the Palestinians. The reality is that if the Arab countries would not have attacked in 1948 and every decade since then, then Israel would never have had to protect itself in the manner it has chosen.

well i say Israel has the go ahead to wipe Iran off the board if there gonna threat the nation of Israel.

then finish off Iraq because to tell you the truth these wars are pissing me off.

KhApZ, I think someone is showing you distortions of the facts. The Palestinians and Arabs have been attacking Israel since 1948 and continue to threaten Israel's existence. The land you call Palestine was not taken by Israel from the Palestinians. Jordan took it from them in 1948. The Arabs themselves never allowed the Palestinians their own country. Israel has been looking for a peaceful existence since 1948 and never intended to take the area you call Palestine until Israel was attacked in 1967. Since then the Arab side has not been willing to agree to a comprehensive solution to the issues. Israel is within their international rights to protect themselves and force a negotiated settlement. That is the basic principle of UN Resolution 242.

There has never been a genocide caused by Israel. It is a shame you are told such lies. Israel entered Lebanon to rid it of the PLO. Lebanon was a beautiful and welathy country before the PLO came there after they were chased out of Jordan in a bloody war. Israel was not interested in Lebanon as a place to invade or occupy. it would be helpful if you learned history objectively.

The middle east countries have always hated Israel, since its existence in 1948. Do not mistake the sequence of events. You make it sound like Israel is hated because of Lebanon and the Palestinians. The reality is that if the Arab countries would not have attacked in 1948 and every decade since then, then Israel would never have had to protect itself in the manner it has chosen.

Thanks for your view it seems to balace the story, the documentary was really emotionally touching and just :eek2:

What was the PLO?

Thanks for your view it seems to balace the story, the documentary was really emotionally touching and just :eek2:

What was the PLO?
The PLO was Arafat's terrorist organization that caused destruction all over the world. They started a civil war in Jordan and the King chased them out of Jordan, across Syria and into Lebanon. In Lebanon they continued to create upheaval. The once beautiful Lebanon, with its world famous tourist draw and its economic prowess was undone in a matter of years. In addition to this internal destruction, the PLO launched unending attacks against Israel. Eventually Israel and Lebanese parties chased the PLO from Lebanon and they landed in Tripoli. The Lebanese citizens welcomed Israel at the time of Israel's thrust to kick the PLO out. After that happened, Syria stationed permanently troops in Lebanon once the political vacuum developed after the PLO was evicted.

So Israel did not want to hurt Lebanon or its people? just flush out the PLO?

What was the objective of the PLO by the way?

sorry i know the documentary was very biast but can someone explain the whole situation, why Israel invaded Lebanon?

thanks, it would be much appreciated

Israel has a black history through 50 years. It doesnt have any excuse in any of what it done. same apply to its mother UK.

The PLO was Arafat's terrorist organization that caused destruction all over the world. They started a civil war in Jordan and the King chased them out of Jordan, across Syria and into Lebanon. In Lebanon they continued to create upheaval. The once beautiful Lebanon, with its world famous tourist draw and its economic prowess was undone in a matter of years. In addition to this internal destruction, the PLO launched unending attacks against Israel. Eventually Israel and Lebanese parties chased the PLO from Lebanon and they landed in Tripoli. The Lebanese citizens welcomed Israel at the time of Israel's thrust to kick the PLO out. After that happened, Syria stationed permanently troops in Lebanon once the political vacuum developed after the PLO was evicted.


This is what jews and Israeli say. Just because arafat was trying to get back his stolen country doesnt have to make his ogranization a considered as a terrorist. I dont like Arafat anyway. He gave away his country. Jews and Israeli should be thankful to Arafat because he gave away 80% of the original pre 1948 palestine. No muslim would forgive him for that.

لتجدن أشد الناس عداوة للذين آمنوا اليهود والذين أشركوا

what country are you from smussuw?

what country are you from smussuw?
Am from the United Arab Emirates. Being an Arab doesnt make me biased. The program uve seen might be the only non biased program in the last 100 years. If the jews knew that there was a a such program they would complian and make pressure on the government to ban it in the name of the anti semstic. Considering that Jews are my couzens and considering their history in the last 2000 years on what they are bases on.

So Israel did not want to hurt Lebanon or its people? just flush out the PLO?

What was the objective of the PLO by the way?
Israel had no intention of going into Lebanon at all had it not been for the PLO. If you look at it objectively, Israel has never been an aggresive, offensive-minded entity. It has had to defend itself unendingly since 1048. It is too bad. There could have been years of prosperity for all the people of the region if the neighbors were not intent on Israel's destuction.

That was the aim of the PLO. As a matter of fact, Arafat's group has still not taken the covenent out of their charter stating their aim is the destruction of Israel. But personally, Arafat wanted unlimited power. He used his own people fro decades as pawns.

They will fight it out one day. The threats are continuing. Iran is trying to acquire nuclear capabilities to ensure they can compete. The result would not be pretty.

This is what jews and Israeli say. Just because arafat was trying to get back his stolen country doesnt have to make his ogranization a considered as a terrorist. I dont like Arafat anyway. He gave away his country. Jews and Israeli should be thankful to Arafat because he gave away 80% of the original pre 1948 palestine. No muslim would forgive him for that.
You sound like you want the destruction of Israel. If that is your position, why should a rational human listen to you?

NOTHING can make the holocaust look like nothing, ok leave the holocaust out of this i mean 4 million jews died, and that is more than anything we have seen before and hopefully will see ever again, NEVER forget the victims of the holocaust ever.

LEST WE FORGET

for anyone who needs a reminder:

Auschwitz in pictures (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/hi/picture_gallery/05/europe_auschwitz/html/1.stm)

Oskar Shindler.com (http://www.oskarschindler.com/)

Omg it sounds like God forbid a WWIII if people in the middle east arent careful :S

then finish off Iraq because to tell you the truth these wars are pissing me off.


Well the yanks are the ones who started this war that is "pissing you off" so you only have your selves to blame for it. Pointless cause, Pointless war. Then you go and vote Bush back in, shame on all of you.

They will fight it out one day. The threats are continuing. Iran is trying to acquire nuclear capabilities to ensure they can compete. The result would not be pretty.
Iran stated last year they want to use nuclear weapons against Israel. That is a main reason for acquiring them for Iran.

Iran stated last year they want to use nuclear weapons against Israel. That is a main reason for acquiring them for Iran.

U always change the facts. Iran has never admitted that it has nuclear weapons so how would it threat Israel. (that doesnt deny that it might have nuclear weapons. Beside Iran say that it will fight Isreal if Isreal started it. SO it is all up to Isreal. Iran wont threat Isreal without a reason. So If isreal was irreasnoable (like always) and tried to destroy the nuclear base (i dont know what its called) Iran will fight back.

why in the world would iran even attack isreal? most likely it will be the other way around.

U always change the facts. Iran has never admitted that it has nuclear weapons so how would it threat Israel. (that doesnt deny that it might have nuclear weapons. Beside Iran say that it will fight Isreal if Isreal started it. SO it is all up to Isreal. Iran wont threat Isreal without a reason. So If isreal was irreasnoable (like always) and tried to destroy the nuclear base (i dont know what its called) Iran will fight back.
If you would only listen, you have a chance to grasp what is being said. Iran stated, when they were commenting on their development towards nuclear capability, of their interest in attacking Israel. It was stated by them that although many Muslims would also be killed in the explosion(s), it would be worth it since there are millions more Muslims around the world that would still survive.

That is what I said the first time too. How difficult is it for you to understand?

So don't tell me Iran has no intentions of threatening Israel. Iran is the most destabalizing country in the region. Even as the Palestinians attempt to come to terms and discuss futures with Israel, Iran increases Hezbolla's presence and threats from Lebanon. Iran continues to keep Lebanon a hot bed of war even though Israel is no longer present there at all.

Your comments regarding Iran as a reasonable country can only make one laugh.

iran is so far from isreal

Am from the United Arab Emirates. Being an Arab doesnt make me biased. The program uve seen might be the only non biased program in the last 100 years. If the jews knew that there was a a such program they would complian and make pressure on the government to ban it in the name of the anti semstic. Considering that Jews are my couzens and considering their history in the last 2000 years on what they are bases on.
offcourse it does make you biased!

Anyways Pakistan wont save any arab countries ass now!

we sent a few pilots when you got yourself in trouble but thanks to the arabs attidude against Pakistanis say good bye!

because you will have 2 hostile nuclear neighbors goodbye :bash:

haha look out for those pakistan pilots, i'm sure most countries would be fine without them, not exactly renowned for there flying ability.

offcourse it does make you biased!

Anyways Pakistan wont save any arab countries ass now!

we sent a few pilots when you got yourself in trouble but thanks to the arabs attidude against Pakistanis say good bye!

because you will have 2 hostile nuclear neighbors goodbye :bash:

Dont worry am not intrested in pakistan help And beside am ashamed to see a muslim member putting this avator and have those views just hope we dont have pakistani expat in Dubai like u.


We dont have nuclear weapons. But we definitly have one of the most modern teachnology in the world.

So don't tell me Iran has no intentions of threatening Israel. Iran is the most destabalizing country in the region. Even as the Palestinians attempt to come to terms and discuss futures with Israel, Iran increases Hezbolla's presence and threats from Lebanon. Iran continues to keep Lebanon a hot bed of war even though Israel is no longer present there at all.

Your comments regarding Iran as a reasonable country can only make one laugh.


Isreal deserve to be threat. Isreal is the most destabalizing country in the world. We are the ones who should be afraid of Israel threat having nuclear weapon. Iran should have nuclear weapons to make things in balance. I dont understand how u call Isreal "reasnoble". Give me a break. In a survey in the europian unioun Isreal was considered the first threat to the world.

Dont worry am not intrested in pakistan help And beside am ashamed to see a muslim member putting this avator and have those views just hope we dont have pakistani expat in Dubai like u.




You are ashamed to see a muslim having this avatar? who are you to judge whos a good muslim and who is not? a good muslim doesnt judge the other one and let the other person live as he prefers without prejudging him, for me someone who does what you did isnt a good or bad muslim for I do not pretend to know about that, I do know ,however, that someone who does that is a bad human being, let him live as he desires and save the remarks to yourself...

haha look out for those pakistan pilots, i'm sure most countries would be fine without them, not exactly renowned for there flying ability.
Escuse me but it looks like you know nothing about the fighting capabilities and stats of PAF!

Our ace MM Alam holds the record for 4 planes downed in 7 seconds in a sabre! :)

Dont worry am not intrested in pakistan help And beside am ashamed to see a muslim member putting this avator and have those views just hope we dont have pakistani expat in Dubai like u.


We dont have nuclear weapons. But we definitly have one of the most modern teachnology in the world.
Your modern technology wont help you since you pay PAF pilots to help the UAF from falling apart!

Pakistanis baisacally run your country without them your done. :)

by the way Gwader will destroy Dubai's fame and wealth

unlike you or any other middle easterner i am a Pakistani who could careless

stereotyping galore...

Let me clear this: not all Pakistanis have the same views as expressed here!

haha look out for those pakistan pilots, i'm sure most countries would be fine without them, not exactly renowned for there flying ability.

Are you insane? PAF pilots are known very well for there flying capablities...very well trained and diciplined!

^ Yes, Pakistan airforce is even respected by US airforce, even though we know that the US would whip PAF easily, if on only sheer numbers of craft and budget. Considering that we all know my country is really arrogant, it says alot for the US military to respect even a portion of another nation's military.

Oh, I'm not "telling" folks what to do, but you folks really should get back on topic. New topics should have new threads. :)

Jason,

The US airforce can whip anyone easily ;)!

You are ashamed to see a muslim having this avatar? who are you to judge whos a good muslim and who is not? a good muslim doesnt judge the other one and let the other person live as he prefers without prejudging him, for me someone who does what you did isnt a good or bad muslim for I do not pretend to know about that, I do know ,however, that someone who does that is a bad human being, let him live as he desires and save the remarks to yourself...

ur not muslims so am not discussing this with u.

Your modern technology wont help you since you pay PAF pilots to help the UAF from falling apart!

Pakistanis baisacally run your country without them your done. :)

by the way Gwader will destroy Dubai's fame and wealth

unlike you or any other middle easterner i am a Pakistani who could careless

Dont worry I wish for pakistan good luck unlike u. I am more pakistanio than u. I know now why terrorist took pakistan and afghanistan as a base.

Does Israel have Nuclear bombs?

Are you insane? PAF pilots are known very well for there flying capablities...very well trained and diciplined!

If it was me who bashed ur airline. U would start bashing me and the arabs and how should we be greatfull for the pakistani because they contributed in building Dubai. No wonder the other guy is from austraila.

thats Australia, capital letters thanks.

The flying capabilities of the PAF, please, what they can fly a plane, that'd be about it put them in a combat situation against anyone half decent and you wouldnt have a hope, i wouldnt start relying on your AF to save the day, it wont happen.

Isreal deserve to be threat. Isreal is the most destabalizing country in the world. We are the ones who should be afraid of Israel threat having nuclear weapon. Iran should have nuclear weapons to make things in balance. I dont understand how u call Isreal "reasnoble". Give me a break. In a survey in the europian unioun Isreal was considered the first threat to the world.
You are just one more in a long, long history or anti Jewish biased people that needs to find excuses everywhere they turn. Israel has never threatened anybody's right to exist. Jewish people have no interest in changing other people in the world. It is the same now as 60 years ago and the same as a hundred years ago. Your myopic focus on Israel and Jews should serve notice to you and others like you that there is something not normal about your fixation.

Israel has been threatened since the very first hour it existed. How do you account for that? Was Israel a threat to the region then? How? It barely had rifles to slow the attack waged by millions of hostile Arab people and their countries. Try to be realistic.

thats Australia, capital letters thanks.

whatever.

no not whatever, A U S T R A L I A

no not whatever, A U S T R A L I A




:blahblah::blahblah: AUSTRALIA

^ Yes, Pakistan airforce is even respected by US airforce, even though we know that the US would whip PAF easily, if on only sheer numbers of craft and budget. Considering that we all know my country is really arrogant, it says alot for the US military to respect even a portion of another nation's military.
Well olny if we had high tech airplanes anyways Pakistan is procuring the J-10 which is the continued project of Isreal's Lavi project

thats Australia, capital letters thanks.

The flying capabilities of the PAF, please, what they can fly a plane, that'd be about it put them in a combat situation against anyone half decent and you wouldnt have a hope, i wouldnt start relying on your AF to save the day, it wont happen.
You obviuously dont know what your talking about :bash:

If it was me who bashed ur airline. U would start bashing me and the arabs and how should we be greatfull for the pakistani because they contributed in building Dubai. No wonder the other guy is from austraila.

Get a life...

Dont worry I wish for pakistan good luck unlike u. I am more pakistanio than u. I know now why terrorist took pakistan and afghanistan as a base.
HAHAHHAA!

YOU ARE MORE PAKISTANI THEN ME?

YOUR NOT A PAKISTANI YOUR A ARAB FOR ONE


I HAVE PAKISTANI CITIZENSHIP AND YOU ARE MORE PAKISTANI THEN ME? :bash:

i even watch lollywoow and listen to Pakistani music i am all PAKISTANI

Stop this argument and get back on topic, thanks

well Iran doesnt have the capabilities to take Isreal.

Someone told me somthing intresting that i would like to share

My friend told me that the olny reason the US is providing us with weapons is so we can do the dirty work and take Iran down.

But i dont remember if Pakistan has ABM's to protect against the Sahab misile.

But i believe because of India we do

do you have any proof Musraff will recodnize isreal? And do you have any proof most pakistan's support isreal? give my any proof like polls, newspaper articles, any thing. some how i seriously doubt that.