INDIANAPOLIS | North of South | Pro [Archive]

ablerock

September 27th, 2010, 06:18 PM

Press Release from Buckingham via insideindianbusiness.com (http://www.insideindianabusiness.com/newsitem.asp?ID=43848)

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September 27, 2010

INDIANAPOLIS
Buckingham Companies is moving forward with a new downtown, mixed-use community in a transformative development featuring a world-class business hotel, 320 high-end apartments, 40,000 square feet of restaurants and retail shops, and a proposed new flagship, state-of-the-art YMCA.

The $150 million project is a part of a public-private partnership, which includes the City of Indianapolis, State of Indiana and Eli Lilly and Company.

ìThe economic impact of this project, including 2,400 temporary and permanent jobs, will create a positive boost for downtown and for all of Marion County,î Indianapolis Mayor Greg Ballard said. ìNorth of South promises to serve as a much-needed link between neighborhoods and businesses on the cityís Near-Southside and the core of downtown. Improved connectivity coupled with strategically-planned business and residential amenities, as well as a mix of sustainability and fitness components, gives this project immense potential.î

The project is sited on a former parking lot north of South Street between Delaware Street and Virginia Avenue, close to several major Indianapolis employers, including Eli Lilly and Company, Indiana Farm Bureau and WellPoint Inc. Confirmed tenants include Dolce Hotels and Resorts, a global operator of high-end hotels, resorts and conference centers directed toward a business audience; and the YMCA, which is planning its second downtown location.

An initial study of the developmentís anticipated economic impact paints a bright picture, starting with an anticipated $350 million in income generation and consumer spending. According to studies, Indianapolis alone is estimated to receive[B] annual revenues close to $1.7 million, and when combined with County and State revenues, the total tops $5 million annually as a direct result of the development. Additionally, the project is expected to create more than 2,400 temporary and permanent jobs.

Buckingham Companies is one of the largest multifamily and mixed-use developer/owners in the Midwest. The company has been working with project stakeholders for two years, carefully designing a project which will successfully link this underserved area to the central business district.

"North of South has the potential to transform this area of downtown, providing a host of benefits for both the public and private sectors," said Brad Chambers, president and CEO of Buckingham. "Its innovative, urban design represents the best in mixed-use, livable communities, and is an exciting opportunity for our company and for the community."

Buckingham and the City of Indianapolis have identified a financing strategy for the project, pending approval by the City-County Council. The approval process is expected to be completed by the end of the year. Buckingham anticipates delivery of the first building components in late 2011.

"This project is an important step in the continued development of our city's core, creating a vibrant new quadrant of our downtown," said John C. Lechleiter, chairman, president and CEO, Eli Lilly and Company. "This welcome development will benefit Eli Lilly and Company in many ways, helping us to attract and retain employees by providing amenities such as housing, retail stores and a fitness facility. More broadly, the project will provide an important connection to the center of Indianapolis for many of the city's largest employers, including Lilly, WellPoint, and Farm Bureau Insurance."

Eli Lilly and Company, as the owner of the land, has minimal direct financial interest in the project and has no role in the financing arrangements being discussed.

The YMCA contemplated for North of South is expected to be a state-of-the-art facility and will allow the organization to expand program offerings that are presently not available at its current downtown facility.

"We are grateful that these partners chose the YMCA for such an exciting project," said Eric Ellsworth, President/CEO, YMCA of Greater Indianapolis. "The YMCA is committed to the core of the City of Indianapolis and our city agenda includes new YMCA facilities in Pike Township and now the heart of downtown, as well as other areas of the city. Our aim is to help make Indianapolis one of the top 10 healthiest cities in America and this project will be key to accomplishing this goal. We also remain committed to the YMCA at the Athenaeum, which is currently being renovated to meet the needs of our members in the downtown community," added Ellsworth.

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About Buckingham Companies
Founded in 1984, Buckingham is a full service, fully integrated, real estate platform consisting of property/asset management, development, investment, construction, and real estate private equity based in Indianapolis, Indiana.

Buckingham focuses on the acquisition, renovation and asset management of multifamily and mixed-use communities with a consistent focus on adding value. Buckingham currently manages approximately $900 million of real estate assets for its own account and for third-party owners, institutions and investment partners. More than 100 properties totaling greater than 17,000 units located throughout the Midwest comprise the aggregate portfolio.

Source: Buckingham Companies

ablerock

September 27th, 2010, 06:32 PM

From IBJ.com (http://www.ibj.com/dolce-hotel-ymca-part-of-cityfunded-north-of-south-project/PARAMS/article/22509)

"Meanwhile, the YMCA proposed for the project will complement rather than replace the existing downtown branch at the Athenaeum, which was damaged in August after a 30-ton crane fell on the roof of the building. A market study performed by the organization showed enough demand to support both facilities, YMCA President and CEO Eric Ellsworth said.

Ellsworth estimated the new branch could attract 10,000 members, far more than the 1,600 at the Anthenaeum. But he said members will have access to both facilities.

“It’s not unusual for there to be more than one downtown presence for a YMCA,” he said."

UrbanIndy

September 27th, 2010, 07:31 PM

Site Plan linked here (http://www.indystar.com/article/20100927/BUSINESS/9270368/-155M-hotel-apartments-retail-project-planned-near-Lilly-HQ?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|IndyStar.com):
http://cmsimg.indystar.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=BG&Date=20100927&Category=BUSINESS&ArtNo=9270368&Ref=V3&MaxW=600&Border=0

ablerock

September 27th, 2010, 08:05 PM

^^

Sweet!

And here's the other image:
http://cmsimg.indystar.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=BG&Date=20100927&Category=BUSINESS&ArtNo=9270368&Ref=V2&MaxW=600&Border=0

perilouspete

September 27th, 2010, 08:28 PM

wow this is sick!! wish something like this would happen on the Park East land in Milwaukee.

ablerock

September 27th, 2010, 11:01 PM

wow this is sick!! wish something like this would happen on the Park East land in Milwaukee.

My girlfriend and I just visited Milwaukee! It's great!

CorrND

September 28th, 2010, 02:44 AM

A couple infrastructure notes:

1. Roundabouts. Yeah, they're internal to the Lilly campus, but that's still interesting in an urban setting.

2. Delaware medians? Given that it's one-way, I'm a little curious about what they're showing on the rendering. I'm going to guess that the renderer was confused but maybe Indy/Lilly/Buckingham has some interesting ideas for the Delaware streetscape.

3. Where's the Lilly-funded Cultural Trail extension into the Lilly campus on New Jersey? Not only are they not showing it, but the last block south appears to completely blow away New Jersey in favor of a contiguous parking lot. Granted, they're not even showing the main Cultural Trail route on this rendering, but you'd think that the Lilly extension would be factored into the parking lot configuration that they're showing.

IndyYeah

September 28th, 2010, 02:57 AM

wow this is sick!! wish something like this would happen on the Park East land in Milwaukee.

Milwaukee has been getting some height with their projects. So I guess there is something people like with both places and the new projects.:cheers:

thehoss257

September 28th, 2010, 04:44 AM

Also, the design of the Sustainablity Park is completly different than what was recently installed during the 2009 Lilly Day of Service.

ablerock

September 28th, 2010, 05:32 AM

^^

I update the images in the second thread post to bigger ones from indystar.com

ablerock

September 28th, 2010, 05:37 AM

Also, the design of the Sustainablity Park is completly different than what was recently installed during the 2009 Lilly Day of Service.

Do you think they'll gut it? Or the renderer was just taking liberties?

I like the water feature.

benjaminooo

September 28th, 2010, 06:33 AM

GarfieldPark

September 29th, 2010, 06:26 AM

I think I read somewhere that it is supposed to have TWO pools.

Maybe they could put in a nice little restaurant or bar in the space where the workout place is currently located at the Villagio. That would be nice for the neighborhood.

GarfieldPark

September 29th, 2010, 06:36 AM

This is taken from the Tuesday Indy Star article: "The YMCA of Greater Indianapolis also proposes a 75,000-square-foot Y, with two swimming pools, an indoor track and gym, a fitness room and other features across South Street from the project."

ablerock

September 29th, 2010, 07:04 PM

ablerock

September 29th, 2010, 07:13 PM

Big ol' renderings!

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4112/5034675651_234d60e2dc_o.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4108/5034675053_42dc28b448_o.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4085/5035294832_d0b41e5255_o.jpg

cailes

September 29th, 2010, 08:06 PM

Is there some rule in the design/rendering world that says, "Color the roads brown" or are they really going to be brick? That would be a lot of bricks...

hannah_banana

September 30th, 2010, 01:23 AM

Very nice project!

thehoss257

September 30th, 2010, 06:14 AM

The scale of this seems similar to the Banks project in Cincy.

thehoss257

September 30th, 2010, 06:26 AM

Do you think they'll gut it? Or the renderer was just taking liberties?

I like the water feature.

I hope they wern't just taking liberties... Even though I like the existing design of the Garden, the new design would be much more appropriate for the proposed urban context. I also love the water feature!!! The paths in the existing garden were built with gravel and crushed stone and wouldn't be difficult remove. The trees are still small and the plants are just starting to get established.

fashionking

September 30th, 2010, 06:26 PM

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b177/fashionking615muah/103_0887.jpg

Thought I would go out and get a current picture.. just to see the vastness of the space...

hannah_banana

October 1st, 2010, 05:00 AM

^That's great if it'll get rid of all that parking space.

Sunday_Bloody_Sundae

October 5th, 2010, 10:15 PM

From: IndyStar

Proposal to guarantee $86M loan for project near Lilly headquarters is unusual, experts say

A former mayor of Pittsburgh finds it "gutsy." A New York real estate attorney calls it "extremely unusual."

They're referring to Indianapolis Mayor Greg Ballard's proposal, revealed last week, to guarantee an $86 million loan to build a hotel, apartments and office and retail space near Eli Lilly and Co.'s headquarters on the south edge of Downtown.
In essence, the city would be taking on the role of banker by financing the privately developed, mixed-use project. Few cities are willing to go that far.
And, perhaps, for good reason.
The move is fraught with risk, putting taxpayers on the hook for the success -- or failure -- of a $155 million development at a time when there's an oversupply of hotel rooms and office and retail space and most lenders are avoiding new commercial real estate.
"It's a gutsy move by the city," said Tom Murphy, the former three-term Pittsburgh mayor, now a senior resident fellow for the Urban Land Institute in Washington. "But times are unusual, so it's hard to be critical of a city willing to take on that kind of risk."
Ballard's proposal would make the city the mortgage holder on the proposed 14-acre development, called North of South, and guarantee its construction loan with property tax revenues from Downtown tax-financing districts.
In past public-private projects in Indianapolis, such as Circle Centre mall and the JW Marriott hotel, the city became a minority equity investor or financial partner, but it has never backed the main loan with its taxing power on a private project of this size.
The project and the city's role in it still face numerous hurdles, including planning and zoning votes and approval by the City-County Council.
A rare opportunity
City officials see the city's role as loan guarantor in North of South as a rare chance to develop a project that would bring much value to the city and benefit its leading corporate citizen, Lilly, the city's largest private-sector employer.
"The risk of not doing it outweighs the risk of doing it," said the executive director of the Indianapolis Bond Bank, Deron Kintner. "It just made sense here. We don't intend it to be an everyday practice."

City officials say not doing the project would mean losing the estimated 2,000 construction jobs it would create over two years; an additional 200 permanent jobs; $5 million a year in tax revenue for the city, county and state; and the chance to build a 10-building complex on prime undeveloped land linking Lilly's headquarters with Downtown.
Charles Cagann, president of Mansur Real Estate Services, an Indianapolis developer, said "there's no doubt" that Lilly's presence in the project helped sway the city to back it.
The city has rejected other requests for similar city loan deals from other developers, said Cagann, whose company several years ago submitted a proposal to redevelop the former Market Square Arena site.
"We're encouraged the city is considering alternate financing mechanisms with the current situation in the market," he said, but "it puts a project with city backing in competition with everyone else. I don't understand how they (the city) go about selecting this one over other things proposed."
Lilly and its hand-picked developer for the 14-acre site, Buckingham Cos. of Indianapolis, didn't plan to get the city as their lender. It happened only after private lenders turned them down.
"We reached out to the banks," Kintner said. But "the banks weren't very eager (to provide financing), even with a city backstop. We didn't get a firm proposal (from a lender) and we saw how it was materializing and realized we were going to have to do it on our own."
The city also will kick in $9 million in tax money for infrastructure improvements, such as new sewers and sidewalks.
'There is no cheaper time'
How risky could the project be for the city?
At worst, said Kintner, the project wouldn't get built and the city would take over its mortgage and have to find a new developer. Or the project would be built but revenue would fail to cover bond payments.
In that case, Kintner said, the city would tap property tax revenues from the Downtown tax-increment financing (TIF) districts. They were set up years ago to subsidize new developments Downtown (such as Circle Centre), using their own newly generated property taxes together with other businesses' in the district to pay off some of their costs.

The Downtown TIF districts still have unclaimed money available to use as a loan guarantee, Kintner said. TIF money is segregated from the city's general fund and isn't available for such things as schools and police.
Kintner said the city would limit its risk by calling in the long-term bonds used to finance the project after just 10 years. The developer would then replace the bonds with private financing.
The city plans to cover the expected $7 million yearly bond payments with projected profits from the project, plus about $2 million in property taxes it would generate. Buckingham also would be required to set aside $7 million to cover a year's worth of bond payments, Kintner said.
Murphy, the ex-mayor from Pittsburgh, said there's no doubt "you're putting the city at risk."
"I would not, as mayor, have done it (the loan guarantee)," he said.
Michael W. Newbold, president of the Central Indiana region for Huntington Bank, said he thinks the 600,000-square-foot project could pay off if its office and retail space and 320 high-end apartments can be filled fairly quickly after opening.
"I have high hopes that it will be successful. Clearly I think the city made a decision . . . to look toward the future and create a rallying point for redevelopment" on the south edge of Downtown, he said.
Newbold said his bank has made "virtually no" loans to commercial retail or office projects in Central Indiana this year.
Tadd M. Miller, principal of Milhaus Development of Indianapolis, which proposes a similar project with apartments and retail and office space in the empty Bank One Operations Center east of the City-County Building, said the city's AAA bond rating from the nation's three main credit-rating agencies allows it to qualify for extra-low interest rates on bonds.
"We're one of the only triple A bond-rated cities in the country. There is no cheaper time . . . to take advantage of it. You're competing against a lot of cities that are bankrupt."
"I'm just disappointed we are not doing more deals like this," Miller said. "We are watching Carmel kick our butt doing things we should be doing." Carmel is building a $167 million performing arts center backed by a city bond and loans.

Edward Mermelstein, a national commentator on real estate issues who is managing partner at the New York real estate law firm of Rheem Bell & Mermelstein, said Indianapolis' proposal to guarantee a major commercial development "is extremely unusual."
"It's not anything we've seen anywhere else," he said.
All facets raise questionsCity and project officials say they designed the project to minimize risk, by spreading revenue among the hotel, apartments, office and retail space, and even public parking garages.
But each of those uses faces weak demand in the current market, except for apartments, which enjoy 90 percent-plus occupancies Downtown.
The 152-room Dolce brand hotel in the project would join a hotel market suffering from a surplus of rooms. The average Downtown room occupancy, which stood at 63.4 percent in 2007, slipped to 59.9 percent last year, according to Smith Travel Research.
The president of Montvale, N.J.-based Dolce Hotels and Resorts, Steven Rudnitsky, said he's optimistic the proposed six-story Indianapolis Dolce will thrive when it opens.
The hotel should enjoy the advantage of receiving substantial corporate bookings from Lilly, he said.
Moreover, Rudnitsky said, hotel bookings are on the rise. "We have every reason to believe . . . occupancies will be well back into the 70 percent range as we run into 2011."
Adding another hotel to the Downtown market "makes hoteliers more nervous" because room demand is so weak, said Phil Ray, general manager of the Marriott Indianapolis Downtown. But he said "it's a good thing" that the city sees hotels as worthy of city support.
Retail space for lease is overbuilt as well, and the North of South project would contain 30,000 to 40,000 square feet of retail space, equivalent to a medium-sized strip center.
The retail space shouldn't be too difficult to fill, considering there is little competing retail space for rent around the Lilly corporate campus, said Steve Delaney, a broker for Sitehawk Retail Real Estate Group in Indianapolis.
Buckingham's senior development executive, Scott Travis, said it will lease the retail space to service businesses, such as a dry cleaners, hair salon or car rental office.
He said he's confident retailers can be lured to the site, given the presence of nearby campuses of Lilly, Farm Bureau Insurance and Anthem Blue Cross-Blue Shield's operations center, which together employ more than 10,000 employees.
The project also contains office space, which at 10,000 square feet will be the smallest commercial use in the project.
It might be the least likely to produce profits, since the plan is to lease the offices to startup companies, including life-science companies working with drug maker Lilly.
It's unclear whether the business incubator office space will be subsidized by Lilly.
Kintner said Lilly has pledged to invest almost $15 million in cash in the project, using money it's due from a city-assisted property-tax-financed project done at its Kentucky Avenue campus in the 1990s.

IndyYeah

October 6th, 2010, 03:28 AM

I would like to see renders that look real, and not the cartoon looking ones.

cwilson758

October 6th, 2010, 02:53 PM

Look at Delaware & South's tow-lot...its practically empty! Hmm....???? When I had to retreive a car from there, it was packed!

vitamin R

October 7th, 2010, 03:30 AM

Great job Ablerock!

SpiderMonkey

November 23rd, 2010, 07:29 PM

http://www.ibj.com/property-lines/2010/11/22/new-renderings-just-in-buckinghams-north-of-south/PARAMS/post/23584

IndyYeah

November 26th, 2010, 02:30 AM

Boring Design! The city deserves better.

ragerunner1

November 26th, 2010, 11:05 PM

I like this project. Great infill (sure beats all the current parking lots), like the mass and scale of the buildings, and the mix of uses will help make this project successful. I think the architecture does a good job integrating design elements from the surrounding buildings. Conseco, Lilly, Farris Campus, etc.

EddieB317

November 27th, 2010, 12:42 AM

I do like the in fill, but I am a little concerned about the connectivity of this new campus. I just hope that it doesn't create an isolated self contained open air mall that all of the workers go to, and never bother to venture out to other businesses around downtown. It will be separated from everything else by around two city blocks of desolate garages, lots, dingy underpasses, conseco, the jail, etc. Just a thought. (I guess thats why you need infill in the first place... to create things to connect together... with more infill, that is hopefully even nicer)

ragerunner1

November 27th, 2010, 07:04 PM

Hopefully this project will spur more development and infill that will integrate North of South more fully with the downtown core.

GarfieldPark

December 2nd, 2010, 07:42 PM

From the 12/2/2010 Indianapolis Business Journal:

North of South Financing Clears First Hurdle

Scott Olson -

The proposed $155 million mixed-use project known as North of South cleared another hurdle Wednesday afternoon when the Indianapolis Metropolitan Development Commission blessed a possible financing arrangment involving the city.

Locally based Buckingham Cos. is leading the development set to be built on 14 acres owned by Eli Lilly and Co. north of South Street between Delaware Street and Virginia Avenue downtown.

The city is offering to provide an $86 million loan for the project by issuing bonds and using income generated by the development to pay off the costs. It also will spend $9 million on infrastructure to get the project off the ground. The MDC approved the financing with an 8-0 vote.

Development plans call for a boutique hotel, retail space, a YMCA branch and 320 upscale apartments on a site now used for parking. Buckingham would like to break ground on the project by the end of the year but faces a difficult timeline to get all approvals.

“I think it will be a terrific addition to the city,” MDC member Diana Hamilton said of the project.

Hamilton threw her support behind North of South after she and other MDC members serving on the commission’s economic development committee heard financing details Wednesday morning from city officials and Buckingham representatives.

Developers did their best to alleviate any fears that the city might be on the hook for the loan if the project were to fail by presenting a laundry list of safeguards.

Those safeguards include a $6.9 million reserve funded by Buckingham; an assurance that 125 percent of the estimated debt will be covered by project revenue; and an agreement that Buckingham will not receive any profit until the developer has paid all outstanding debts.

Further, the city will be shielded from any risk for five years from the project’s start date and will drop its involvement after 10 years. Buckingham then will need to refinance remaining debt with a traditional bank.

“We understand it’s a bit of a new way of doing things,” acknowledged Deron Kintner, director of the Indianapolis Local Public Improvement Bond Bank. “But we think we’ve taken certain steps to mitigate that risk.”

The $155 million price tag for the project includes the $86 million city loan and its $9 million pledge for infrastructure improvements, as well as a $7 million contribution from Buckingham, a $6 million grant from the Indiana Economic Development Corp., the $29 million in land Lilly is donating and $18 million for the YMCA branch.

If one take's the YMCA out of the equation, because it will provide its own funding, Indianapolis is financing nearly 64 percent of the project—a large amount for the city to swallow, MDC President Randy Snyder said.

“I just want to make sure we do everything we can to protect the city,” he said.

Instead of $86 million, however, the city actually is borrowing $98 million to pay for administrative costs related to the bond sale and for interest payments while the project is under construction.

City officials said the additional $12 million adds flexibility to the bond issue because it’s often impossible to know how the bond markets will perform between the time of filing and issuing of debt. They also say bond issues involve “soft costs,” such as interest.

Lilly will continue to own the land, so the state’s involvement makes the project a public-private partnership. The state is contributing because it plans to designate an area within the development as a certified technology center.

The city has had discussions with a few universities that might be interested in occupying space within the tech center but has no agreement yet, Deputy Mayor Michael Huber said.

The project is expected to create 2,200 temporary construction jobs and 200 permanent jobs. It also is anticipated to generate $1.7 million in annual revenue for the city.

The MDC next is expected to hear a request to rezone the property at its Dec. 15 meeting. The City-County Council ultimately needs to sign off on the project.

cailes

December 16th, 2010, 09:19 PM

Passed rezoning
http://www.ibj.com/north-of-south-project-clears-rezoning-hurdle/PARAMS/article/24030

cailes

March 1st, 2011, 03:50 PM

Passed financing
http://www.ibj.com/north-of-south-development-to-start-this-summer/PARAMS/article/25595

SpiderMonkey

March 1st, 2011, 05:33 PM

http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg148/Spidermonkey317/HotelRendering_View2.jpg

http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg148/Spidermonkey317/HotelRendering1_thumb.jpg

Got these two renderings of the Dolce hotel from the Buckingham North of South site.

http://northofsouthindy.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=6&Itemid=2

IndyYeah

March 2nd, 2011, 02:06 AM

Kind of looks like an upscale Federal type building. Nice addition.

GarfieldPark

April 8th, 2011, 03:18 PM

They've started work on North of South! Drove by this morning and the entire 2 1/2 block site has been surrounded by new fencing. Construction crews and equipment are on site. There were a few spots that looked like some initial digging had begun to occur. They are taking down all of the lights that had been on site when it was a parking lot. It looks like they are ready to start getting this project moving quickly! It'll be interesting to watch this site change from nothing to a whole new, important part of downtown over the next year-and-a-half - as I go by the site pretty much every morning on my way to work.

cailes

April 8th, 2011, 04:23 PM

We all might not be so jump up and down excited, but this project is measured success. Taking a parking lot and turning it into an entire development. Im not against the way it was funded either and look forward to this thing opening.

unvrsty07

April 8th, 2011, 05:53 PM

That means you will have plenty of opportunities to share pictures with us right Garfield? :)

GarfieldPark

April 8th, 2011, 08:11 PM

I'll need to do that. This will force me to finally learn how to download pictures from my digital camera. I hate to say it, but I've never taken enough time to figure out how to get the downloading process to work properly. Sorry -- I didn't grow up in the age when everyone had phone cameras and everything was linked together into laptops and i-phones. I know -- I need to learn. Hopefully I'll be able to figure it out in the next month or so - before any steel starts coming out of the ground. :)

cailes

April 8th, 2011, 08:34 PM

My wife teaches photography classes if you need a good mentor. She has taught me ;-)

GarfieldPark

April 8th, 2011, 10:49 PM

^^ Thanks. I may have to look you up some day and take you up on the offer.

cwilson758

April 11th, 2011, 09:50 PM

You beat me to it Garfield! I was in town this weekend and saw that the area has been fenced off and construction equipment has moved in! Very Exciting!!

fashionking

June 10th, 2011, 06:42 PM

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b177/fashionking615muah/DSC00092.jpg

SkywlkrSnd

August 3rd, 2011, 06:56 PM

And North of South is now.... wait for it.... CityWay

See IBJ article (http://www.ibj.com/north-of-south-gets-a-new-name-cityway/PARAMS/article/28665) for the full story.

I guess we'll have to get used to it, but I liked "North of South" better.

moochie

August 3rd, 2011, 07:50 PM

They broke ground today:

http://www.indystar.com/article/20110803/NEWS/110803020/Indy-breaks-ground-155M-hotel-retail-apartment-project?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|IndyStar.com

Indy breaks ground on $155M mixed-use CityWay

City and business officials today marked the start of a $155 million hotel-retail-apartment project Downtown.

The groundbreaking ceremony for the city-subsidized project drew a host of public and private leaders, including Mayor Greg Ballard and Eli Lilly and Co. Chief Executive John Lechleiter.

They posed in suits and hard hats to dig their engraved silver shovels into a patch of freshly turned earth on the 14-acre construction site, at Alabama and South streets.

The mixed-use project, originally called North of South, has been renamed CityWay, said Brad Chambers, president of Buckingham Cos. of Indianapolis, the lead developer and construction manager.

From a tent pitched on the site, Chambers told more than 75 people, including new Indiana Pacers head coach Frank Vogel, that the project will be “a trend-setting model for urban living.”

The mayor and City-County Council decided to float bonds to help finance the project as a way to spur commercial development between Downtown and the Lilly corporate campus.

CityWay will include a 152-rooom Dolce-brand hotel, 320 apartments, retail and office space and a full-service YMCA. It will open in late 2012 or early 2013, except for the YMCA, which may not open until 2014.

Call Star reporter Jeff Swiatek at (317) 444-6483.

cailes

August 3rd, 2011, 08:23 PM

I contend that CityWay could be the name of a taxi company. North of South at least informed potential visitors where they were visiting. CityWay? That sounds way too corporate... perhaps that is fitting given that it is for Lilly though...

CorrND

August 4th, 2011, 03:31 PM

They broke ground today:

http://www.indystar.com/article/20110803/NEWS/110803020/Indy-breaks-ground-155M-hotel-retail-apartment-project?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|IndyStar.com (http://www.indystar.com/article/20110803/NEWS/110803020/Indy-breaks-ground-155M-hotel-retail-apartment-project?odyssey=tab%7Ctopnews%7Ctext%7CIndyStar.com)
Of course that's "broke ground" figuratively. They literally broke ground months ago.

CityWay sucks and I haven't heard from a single person that thinks it's good. How did Buckingham spend money on "more than a year of work by "various branding companies" to capture the project's "urban and contemporary" flavor" and CityWay is what they came up with? The users on this forum probably could come up with a dozen better alternatives in a day FOR FREE.

I wonder how much time and money they spent deciding whether to capitalize the W.

Lame.

indyfiend

August 4th, 2011, 04:07 PM

It's amazing what a Lilly blessing can do. The Market Square project can't even get off the ground, but this project comes together so quickly. I love this project (minus the name) so I'm not gonna complain. I just hope those market square parking lots get some love soon :)

pattyco7

August 4th, 2011, 04:07 PM

At least it's getting built.

ablerock

August 4th, 2011, 08:00 PM

I'm wondering if the name will actually show up anywhere other than marketing materials.

ablerock

August 5th, 2011, 03:37 PM

Updated site plans from the promo material at http://cityway.com/retail/available-space

The bottom image shows more of timeline for the "future development" buildings in the top image.

Very excited about the medians along South and Delaware, as well as the conversion back to two-way on this short section of Delaware.

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6014/6008471188_b7316de871_o.jpg

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6125/6007923509_4a0becf207_o.jpg

EddieB317

August 5th, 2011, 03:41 PM

It would be nice if it were two way all the way up to Washington street.

ablerock

August 5th, 2011, 03:48 PM

It would be nice if it were two way all the way up to Washington street.

It looks like it might go to Maryland? Or is that wishful thinking? Perhaps it ends just before the underpass.

GarfieldPark

September 30th, 2011, 04:55 PM

Lots of foundations are being poured for the different buildings. A few places show structures beginning to come out of the ground - mostly they seem to be cement block elevator shafts that are being built. Several large holes have been dug - most likely for some of the underground parking areas.

I noticed this morning that the ugly "Delaware and South" towing lot on the west side of Delaware has had a portion of its fence taken down - and the parking lot that usually is filled with cars is now almost entirely empty. Looks like this lot has likely been acquired now - and will be getting cleaned up and readied for the future construction planned in phase II for this area. It is great to see the tow lot finally gone from this location so close to the heart of downtown!

ablerock

October 1st, 2011, 02:36 PM

ablerock

October 1st, 2011, 02:47 PM

Forgot to post what I learned about the two-way conversion. :)

From DPW via neighbor liaison:

"None of the two-way conversion will happen this year.* The planned conversion on Delaware Street is currently proposed to run from McCarthy on the South to Maryland on the North."

She went on to say things may change come next year, nothing's set in stone yet.

EddieB317

October 10th, 2011, 02:15 AM

10/09/2011
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-_kJ2D8zCkz4/TpI3AU6VuvI/AAAAAAAAFGQ/PXBHlhXxFak/s800/photo%2525204.JPG

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-bpp7jgu0jHc/TpI2_58IbnI/AAAAAAAAFGI/5xUOVoecsVQ/s800/photo%2525202.JPG

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-mxjmoQMOve8/TpI2_sk31rI/AAAAAAAAFGE/-btRTx0yceg/s800/photo%2525201.JPG

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-bUzUUmUbcTs/TpI3A--rLsI/AAAAAAAAFGU/6XkaWxUE7Oc/s800/photo%2525205.JPG

EddieB317

October 10th, 2011, 02:16 AM

This thread should be moved to U/C.

GarfieldPark

October 17th, 2011, 04:42 AM

As more and more structures are starting to come out of the ground, it is beginning to give a definite new feel to this area - as all of a sudden you start to see the downtown core being extended about three blocks to the south. There are several structures starting to stick up into view above the fencing along South Street.

The view looking north from South Street will get increasingly better as the buildings go up and you'll see this whole new part of downtown connected to Conseco and the CBD beyond. I remember when the core of downtown barely reached south of Washington Street (or perhaps more accurately - pretty much no one ever ventured south of Washington Street). This should help significantly in connecting the Lilly campus to downtown - and also strengthen the downtown connection to Virginia Ave and its new apartments and businesses - which in turn should also help bring more people to Fountain Square. Can't wait until Spring when this project should really start coming together.

GarfieldPark

November 16th, 2011, 07:38 PM

Steel is up to the second level for the Dolce Hotel - and several elevator towers have been built that are approximately four stories high right now.

The steel framing for the first floors of the three residential buildings along the western edge of the project site has been completed. On one of those residential buildings, they have started to put up wooden framed sections with windows in them on the second floor.

South of South street, across from the Dolce Hotel - it looks like a sales office is being constructed, with a viewing model providing an example of one of the apartments.

indymidlander

December 20th, 2011, 01:19 AM

Indy'd

December 20th, 2011, 03:28 PM

just saw this on buckingham's website. new renderings (new to me at least) that show much more detail...i think it looks pretty good and sleek. curious what you all think:

http://www.cityway.com/home/renderings

It makes quite a district. I really like the massing of the entire project. A lot of other cities have large scal projects like this, but Indy hasn't had one recently that I know of........

cjfjapan

December 20th, 2011, 06:36 PM

It makes quite a district. I really like the massing of the entire project. A lot of other cities have large scal projects like this, but Indy hasn't had one recently that I know of........

Present-day me likes the renderings for City Way, but I predict that 2021 me and others will find this project in dire need of renovation. I don't think this will age well.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2257/2302439228_a67e890d34.jpg

moochie

December 20th, 2011, 06:41 PM

I wish it wasn't raining so I could take pix.. I went by there, and wow they've made a lot of progress. Maybe they're pushing it to get some visibility for the Superbowl.

moochie

December 21st, 2011, 04:04 PM

Dreary, rainy day to take pix, but here they are.

http://indianapolisparking.net/cw.JPG

http://indianapolisparking.net/cw2.JPG

http://indianapolisparking.net/cw3.JPG

http://indianapolisparking.net/cw4.JPG

http://indianapolisparking.net/cw5.JPG

socrates#1fan

December 29th, 2011, 05:01 AM

Drewbie

December 29th, 2011, 07:37 AM

I wish it wasn't raining so I could take pix.. I went by there, and wow they've made a lot of progress. Maybe they're pushing it to get some visibility for the Superbowl.

I noticed the same ahead of expectations kind of pace, Im sure the really mild winter has gone a long way in making things easier. It's looking good though !

moochie

December 29th, 2011, 08:48 PM

Does anyone know the fate of the little 2 story 19th century brick building in the far right of the last photo? It looks like crap, but it is actually very ornate. It has reliefs on its facade and brackets. If properly restored it would make a fantastic bar.

That's Delaware and South Towing, and that building is used for vehicle storage. This is the company that is in trouble for illegal tows. The City and State is cancelling all contracts with them as of January 1st, and the hearing where their license will likely be revoked will be January 10th. If it is revoked, they'll still be allowed to do voluntary towing for breakdowns and the like for a year, but likely they will be out of business for good.

The property is owned by out of state former Indy residents (and former owners of Delaware and South Towing). Who knows what they'll do with it. They almost certainly won't keep Delaware and South as tenants.

indymidlander

December 29th, 2011, 09:31 PM

totally agree about the (hopefully former) delaware and south building. i've also walked up to it and noticed all of the detail. it would make an AWESOME bar and it's in an awesome location! nothing against the towing company, but they're c-blocking a nice chunk of the block on what should be a much better use. and, as moochie said, they're in trouble. i hope they at least move if they remain in business...

moochie

December 29th, 2011, 10:11 PM

It's really all up in the air. They'll almost certainly lose their license on the 10th, which will almost certainly put them out of business. The other tow companies, notably Last Chance, are scooping up their contracts right now. If they're gone for a year, they'll never come back.

Thing is that Last Chance is located on property that is now owned by Angies List. Their agreement is to give Last Chance another 18 months to relocate.

Last Chance is owned by former partners of the owners of the property Delaware and South is located at...

So.. Last Chance will probably be the biggest tow company downtown looking for a new home... Where will they go?...

totally agree about the (hopefully former) delaware and south building. i've also walked up to it and noticed all of the detail. it would make an AWESOME bar and it's in an awesome location! nothing against the towing company, but they're c-blocking a nice chunk of the block on what should be a much better use. and, as moochie said, they're in trouble. i hope they at least move if they remain in business...

socrates#1fan

December 29th, 2011, 10:12 PM

That's Delaware and South Towing, and that building is used for vehicle storage. This is the company that is in trouble for illegal tows. The City and State is cancelling all contracts with them as of January 1st, and the hearing where their license will likely be revoked will be January 10th. If it is revoked, they'll still be allowed to do voluntary towing for breakdowns and the like for a year, but likely they will be out of business for good.

The property is owned by out of state former Indy residents (and former owners of Delaware and South Towing). Who knows what they'll do with it. They almost certainly won't keep Delaware and South as tenants.

Was that the towing company the news was going on about?

It always amazes me how people can be so insensitive with these buildings. If these people controlled the world, they'd be parking motorcycles in the state house!

I'm not sure if that structure is in the wholesale district, though I imagine it will likely get more attention as project continues. Hopefully it will be given the right attention.

ablerock

January 4th, 2012, 06:38 PM

Bunch of new renderings posted on CityWay website. I took the, ahem, liberty of liberating them from the crappy overlay-happy site. Totally digging this project! Very excited about the new streetscape and park illustrated in the top image.

http://cityway.com/Sitefinity/WebsiteTemplates/CityWay1/App_Themes/Theme1/Images/common/sub_renderings/cw_color_rendering_01.jpg

http://cityway.com/Sitefinity/WebsiteTemplates/CityWay1/App_Themes/Theme1/Images/common/sub_renderings/cw_color_rendering_02.jpg

http://cityway.com/Sitefinity/WebsiteTemplates/CityWay1/App_Themes/Theme1/Images/common/sub_renderings/cw_color_rendering_03.jpg

http://cityway.com/Sitefinity/WebsiteTemplates/CityWay1/App_Themes/Theme1/Images/common/sub_renderings/cw_color_rendering_04.jpg

http://cityway.com/Sitefinity/WebsiteTemplates/CityWay1/App_Themes/Theme1/Images/common/sub_renderings/cw_color_rendering_05.jpg

http://cityway.com/Sitefinity/WebsiteTemplates/CityWay1/App_Themes/Theme1/Images/common/sub_renderings/cw_color_rendering_06.jpg

http://cityway.com/Sitefinity/WebsiteTemplates/CityWay1/App_Themes/Theme1/Images/common/sub_renderings/cw_color_rendering_07.jpg

http://cityway.com/Sitefinity/WebsiteTemplates/CityWay1/App_Themes/Theme1/Images/common/sub_renderings/cw_color_rendering_08.jpg

http://cityway.com/Sitefinity/WebsiteTemplates/CityWay1/App_Themes/Theme1/Images/common/sub_renderings/cw_color_rendering_09.jpg

http://cityway.com/Sitefinity/WebsiteTemplates/CityWay1/App_Themes/Theme1/Images/common/sub_renderings/cw_color_rendering_10.jpg

http://cityway.com/Sitefinity/WebsiteTemplates/CityWay1/App_Themes/Theme1/Images/common/sub_renderings/cw_color_rendering_11.jpg

Dale

January 4th, 2012, 06:42 PM

Love it!

indymidlander

January 4th, 2012, 08:52 PM

loving this as well! it gives the sense of a more walkable, free area in the city and that makes me happy. not that we don't have some of that now, but this really adds to it. this will be a HUGE catalyst for the south portion of downtown that i hope bleeds into the somewhat struggling neighborhoods of the near south side. so much potential. i'll try to take some pics if i'm down in the area this week.

***side note - does anyone know about the rathskellar-looking building immediately south of the interstate on the south side of dtown? not sure if it's an old turnverein or something but it has so much potential and i've looked at it for over a decade hoping someone will turn it into a destination spot.

GarfieldPark

January 4th, 2012, 09:03 PM

Re. Athenaeum-like building south of the interstate:

I'm not sure what it is called -- but it has a gymnasium (basketball court) in it and is used for some basketball leagues. It also has a bar that has recently gotten a few mentions in some of the local papers. They have occasional concerts there by local bands. I just looked on Google Maps Streetview - and it is listed as the Madison Avenue Athletic Club. I'm pretty sure the bar has a name too - but I can't seem to find that right now.

moochie

January 4th, 2012, 09:18 PM

GarfieldPark

January 4th, 2012, 10:17 PM

Love the new images for CityWay. Its a little better than 3 square blocks of surface parking lots, ya think? The only thing that seems a little strange to me though is the proposed building at the NE corner of South Street and Alabama. Its supposed to be residential but it doesn't seem to have normal windows. Can't quite figure that one out. I believe it is supposed to be in a "phase 2" of the project. Its style fits with the rest of the project - but it just seems pretty different for a residential building. Maybe the site layout proposal has changed and it is now supposed to be something different.

indymidlander

January 4th, 2012, 11:28 PM

thank you both, i'll have to check it out!

pig

January 5th, 2012, 12:19 AM

***side note - does anyone know about the rathskellar-looking building immediately south of the interstate on the south side of dtown? not sure if it's an old turnverein or something but it has so much potential and i've looked at it for over a decade hoping someone will turn it into a destination spot.

GarfieldPark's right. It's the Madison Avenue Athletic Club. It was built in 1900 for the Suedseite Turnverein, and like the Athenaeum it's a Vonnegut & Bohn building. IUPUI's Historic Architecture Slide Collection (http://indiamond6.ulib.iupui.edu/cdm4/results.php?CISOOP1=exact&CISOFIELD1=CISOSEARCHALL&CISOROOT=/IHAS&CISOBOX1=Suedseite+Turnverein) has a little bit of info.

indymidlander

January 5th, 2012, 01:43 AM

thanks pig! glad to see it's been recorded and there's a current use for it, not just sitting there decaying. love the relief sculpture on the west side of the building...

ablerock

January 5th, 2012, 02:45 PM

After further review of the new renderings, I'm a little concerned about the YMCA's setback from South street (bottom left of top image). The large space between it and the street does look like it contains a continuation of the pavers from the pedestrian area along south Alabama street that leads into Lilly, so perhaps it's a plaza of some sort. Parking spaces are clearly marked behind the building so I'm hopeful this won't be an unsightly parking lot directly across from the new hotel.

songunn25

January 5th, 2012, 03:43 PM

ablerock

January 5th, 2012, 09:06 PM

No idea how well it is scaled in the background, but I love how dense the downtown looks in this rendering. It would be nice to get a ten story building next to the Gold Building to fill in that hole a bit. If at all accurate, the view towards the center of downtown should be fantastic.

On the NW corner of the Regions Tower block there's plenty of room for a tower to fill in the gap you're pointing out. It's a block north of the gold building, but it would still fill it in nicely.

It would also be directly centered with Mass Ave at its southern termination and could make a great showpiece-building location. Regions Tower already has a bit of a centerpiece feel when viewed from Mass Ave, but something a little more dramatic would be great. Maybe half the height of Regions.

Anyway, yeah the city looks pretty great from that angle!

GarfieldPark

January 5th, 2012, 10:31 PM

ablerock

January 5th, 2012, 11:30 PM

SpiderMonkey

January 5th, 2012, 11:33 PM

so, is the Dolce hotel officially going to be called the Alexander? I hadn't seen any press release so I was just curious. I like it though. I assume the names stems from Alexander Ralston.

ablerock

January 5th, 2012, 11:35 PM

^^ You mean the NE corner of the Regions block. :)

I agree -- Some kind of mid sized, classic looking building with some type of architectural ornament - clocktower, turret, highlighted columns, etc - would look excellent as the SW anchor of that view down Mass Avenue.

Although I do disagree with wanting something "classic looking." ;)

I want something hyper-contemporary! ;)

Actually wouldn't it be cool to have a building straddle a park or wide pathway that continued Mass Ave along its former path? You know what I mean? Like 2 triangular buildings making a square with a linear public space down the middle to restore a little bit of old Mass Ave.

ablerock

January 5th, 2012, 11:37 PM

so, is the Dolce hotel officially going to be called the Alexander? I hadn't seen any press release so I was just curious. I like it though. I assume the names stems from Alexander Ralston.

I don't think it has anything to do with Ralston. I remember reading it's a new brand of theirs. We're getting the first.

SpiderMonkey

January 5th, 2012, 11:47 PM

I don't think it has anything to do with Ralston. I remember reading it's a new brand of theirs. We're getting the first.

Oh, interesting. Too bad, would have been nice to have a little homage to Ralston. Maybe Ralston Square will someday come back on the drawing board especially with CityWay springing to life nearby.

GarfieldPark

January 6th, 2012, 05:02 PM

SpiderMonkey

January 6th, 2012, 05:54 PM

If that's the case it is very cool. I hadn't noticed that before, but you are right. It sure does look like the Ralston plot of Indy.

Round Rock

January 6th, 2012, 09:29 PM

ablerock

January 6th, 2012, 10:18 PM

Re. Alexander Ralston: I just noticed though - in the second and third pictures in the new photo series above of the CityWay project - when they show the close-ups of the Alexander Hotel - right underneath where it says "The Alexander A Dolce Hotel", there is a little square grid showing what looks very much like a rendition of the central few blocks of Ralston's mile square plat for Indianapolis. Maybe it is a new brand -- and the source of the brand stems from Indianapolis' own Alexander Ralston. That's pretty cool if you ask me.

Good find!

Perhaps the brand has more to do with the type of hotel, the experience, than the name. The name may change according to location, but the approach is consistent.

Here's a blurb about it. They're calling it a "model" for future urban hotels.

http://www.successfulmeetings.com/Destinations/Meetings-Midwest/Articles/Indianapolis-Site-of-Dolce-s-New-Urban-Hotel-Model/

If it is indeed named after Ralston, that's pretty great. And makes sense, since Ratio design it and Ralston Square.

dcesar716

January 7th, 2012, 07:30 PM

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t36/dcesar716/6d5948d8.jpg

dcesar716

January 7th, 2012, 07:30 PM

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t36/dcesar716/cae4470e.jpg

dcesar716

January 7th, 2012, 07:31 PM

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t36/dcesar716/c1f2c6a1.jpg

Indy'd

January 9th, 2012, 05:12 PM

though you guys were ahead of the curve, here is "confirming" information from IBJ:

http://www.ibj.com/property-lines/2012/01/09/new-renderings-cityways-hotel-dubbed-the-alexander/PARAMS/post/31835

ablerock

January 9th, 2012, 08:06 PM

though you guys were ahead of the curve, here is "confirming" information from IBJ:

http://www.ibj.com/property-lines/2012/01/09/new-renderings-cityways-hotel-dubbed-the-alexander/PARAMS/post/31835

Not the first time info from SkyscraperCity makes it to mainstream media soon after posting. :)

moochie

January 9th, 2012, 08:38 PM

A little update: Delaware and South's hearing has been moved to early March. And.. they've sued the city over losing their contract. This sure feels like admitting the end is near to me.

http://www.ibj.com/towing-company-suing-city-over-loss-of-contract/PARAMS/article/31836

Dunno what will happpen to the property. Delaware and South is renting it, and the owners may choose to sell. I have doubts that Last Chance Towing will want to move to the location, rent is pretty high, and there is animosity between Last Chance and the property owners. Angies List won't require them to move for at least 18 months.

It's really all up in the air. They'll almost certainly lose their license on the 10th, which will almost certainly put them out of business. The other tow companies, notably Last Chance, are scooping up their contracts right now. If they're gone for a year, they'll never come back.

Thing is that Last Chance is located on property that is now owned by Angies List. Their agreement is to give Last Chance another 18 months to relocate.

Last Chance is owned by former partners of the owners of the property Delaware and South is located at...

So.. Last Chance will probably be the biggest tow company downtown looking for a new home... Where will they go?...

GarfieldPark

January 10th, 2012, 02:37 PM

Hey forum moderators: Please change this thread from "proposed" to "under construction".

EddieB317

January 10th, 2012, 02:48 PM

^^ haha! I asked for it to be changes to U/C back in October!

pig

January 11th, 2012, 12:15 AM

Might as well change the name to CityWay while we're at it.
:runaway:

Drewbie

January 11th, 2012, 06:13 AM

Besides the Density and Design, I think this project according to the renderings is really going to excell in regards to landscaping. The sustainabuility park should be interesting to see when it comes to fruition. It's about time downtown gets a new park or two, too, and hopefully there really are the number of trees that are present in the renderings. It's details like those that can make not just the city, but winter, much more liveable.

ablerock

January 30th, 2012, 02:18 PM

CityWay flyover/promo vid:

Actual renderings start around the :30 mark. It's lifestyle shots until then.

I recommend bumping up the quality to 720p and going full screen.

eFWNCG6GODs

cjfjapan

February 2nd, 2012, 06:03 AM

CityWay flyover/promo vid:

Actual renderings start around the :30 mark. It's lifestyle shots until then.

I recommend bumping up the quality to 720p and going full screen.

Is anyone else thinking that some of the architectural styles and design decisions in CityWay will end up dated and hated in a decade?

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1320/5180475932_2c5ee8ddae.jpg

kangaroo1

February 2nd, 2012, 07:51 PM

Is anyone else thinking that some of the architectural styles and design decisions in CityWay will end up dated and hated in a decade?

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1320/5180475932_2c5ee8ddae.jpg

While the Minton Capehart Federal Building may not be to everyone's taste, it is consider an important and fairly impressive example of late-modern architecture designed by the well-respected local architectural firm of Woollen Associates. Not everyone may like the style, but the building is bold and it makes a statement. Also, I cannot say I have ever really heard anyone say they hated the building--not liked it, yes, but not hated it.

In contrast, the buildings in City Way are designed in a generic upscale contemporary style that would generally be inoffensive to most people. They don't seem they will leave much of an impression, except "here's a nice corporate hotel next to some nice corporate apartments with a few nice chain restaurants interspersed among them." I highly doubt these buildings will ever end up being hated, but it is quite possible they will end up being considered dated as styles and tastes change.

ablerock

February 2nd, 2012, 09:09 PM

Is anyone else thinking that some of the architectural styles and design decisions in CityWay will end up dated and hated in a decade?

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1320/5180475932_2c5ee8ddae.jpg

The Federal building is great. I'm only saddened by the block-killing parking structure in the back. The public space around the base would also be better served if the building was residential in nature. As a high-security federal building, it's never really going to be used to its fullest potential. I especially love the way it looks from the top floor of the library.

IndyYeah

February 4th, 2012, 05:49 PM

Is anyone else thinking that some of the architectural styles and design decisions in CityWay will end up dated and hated in a decade?

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1320/5180475932_2c5ee8ddae.jpg

The designs probably will not be hated, however they seem dated already. As long as the project is new and a "Vision" for the city, then most will seem to accept the project. I have accepted Indianapolis' lack of design thoughts for awhile now. I don't feel anything will change for years, unless the public and leaders will push for better.

cjfjapan

February 7th, 2012, 02:56 AM

DowntownIndianapolis

February 7th, 2012, 04:19 AM

I think design in Indy is generally middle-of-the-road and safe, even CityWay/North of South. These designs were cutting-edge about five years ago, but now seem so ubiquitous that they'll flame out in just a few years. I'd almost rather see something completely random and out there, or something that blends seamlessly into the existing cityscape. This tries to both, but might end up doing neither.

My plan for the Market Square arena by turning it into the Indianapolis Exchange Center to lure big companies like CBOE and other large corporations into both Indianapolis and Downtown and to go taller than the Chase Tower. 2nd depending on how much room new corporations that could relocate into this idea of a tower. You also could consolidate jobs from companies like HHgregg/Republic Airway Holdings/Celadon/Finish Line inc from the Suburbs and outside Downtown into the Downtown area. Bringing more jobs to Downtown actually would have another benefit because it makes it more practical for Transit to be developed. If not a big chunk of the population is going in one place transit is not very effective but if alot of jobs and people have to commute to downtown it makes it more attractive to build transit. Which would satisfy the Urban Indy folks too. :)

cwilson758

February 8th, 2012, 04:24 AM

are they really relocating Delaware & South towing and planting all of those trees?????

pig

February 8th, 2012, 05:14 AM

Delaware and South is already gone, but I'm not holding my breath on the trees.

hoosier

February 9th, 2012, 02:55 AM

My plan for the Market Square arena by turning it into the Indianapolis Exchange Center to lure big companies like CBOE and other large corporations into both Indianapolis and Downtown and to go taller than the Chase Tower. 2nd depending on how much room new corporations that could relocate into this idea of a tower. You also could consolidate jobs from companies like HHgregg/Republic Airway Holdings/Celadon/Finish Line inc from the Suburbs and outside Downtown into the Downtown area. Bringing more jobs to Downtown actually would have another benefit because it makes it more practical for Transit to be developed. If not a big chunk of the population is going in one place transit is not very effective but if alot of jobs and people have to commute to downtown it makes it more attractive to build transit. Which would satisfy the Urban Indy folks too. :)

Not this again. You really need to learn how the world works. Companies are not going to headquarter themselves in a shared building. Who is going to pay for this spec building? There is no demand for a 1000 ft skyscraper in Indianapolis and there never will be.

IndyYeah

February 11th, 2012, 06:25 PM

Not this again. You really need to learn how the world works. Companies are not going to headquarter themselves in a shared building. Who is going to pay for this spec building? There is no demand for a 1000 ft skyscraper in Indianapolis and there never will be.

There is not now. Never will be? Not so sure what the world, and city will be like in 25 years, 50 or 100 years from now. Cannot be sure what corporations will be like in the future. I would not doubt in the future that cities may have sponsorship! Downturns in the economy will not last all the time. I never thought that I would see a 200 million dollar ballplayer, or mindblowing technologies, or the corporation issues that have gone on in recent decades. I am not a predictor, but nothing surprises me when it comes to business.

kangaroo1

February 11th, 2012, 08:37 PM

There is not now. Never will be? Not so sure what the world, and city will be like in 25 years, 50 or 100 years from now. Cannot be sure what corporations will be like in the future. I would not doubt in the future that cities may have sponsorship! Downturns in the economy will not last all the time. I never thought that I would see a 200 million dollar ballplayer, or mindblowing technologies, or the corporation issues that have gone on in recent decades. I am not a predictor, but nothing surprises me when it comes to business.

I think the real point Hoosier was making is that while it is great to dream big, no meaningful change ever came about from pie-in-the-sky dreaming alone.

If you want change, it takes real, hard work. Moreover, most change happens incrementally, and even when sweeping and dramatic change occurs, it is only because the foundation had been laid for it.

If people want a 1,000 ft tower in downtown Indianapolis, then perhaps they should lobby for better mass transit, encourage more residential development downtown, push the city to revise the planning and zoning codes to favor higher density, transit-oriented development, ensure the city maintains a competitive tax and regulatory environment, improve public schools, etc. When Indianapolis is made into a highly desirable city to live and work in, AND all the empty and/or under-utilized space, even right in the city's core, is filled up, THEN you will see tall skyscrapers being constructed.

unvrsty07

February 11th, 2012, 10:33 PM

Anyone have any photo updates of the site? Has any progress been made since the last post with pictures? Thanks!

eva jhonson

February 11th, 2012, 10:53 PM

tejas for sale

http://**********************************/

DowntownIndianapolis

February 12th, 2012, 04:03 AM

I think the real point Hoosier was making is that while it is great to dream big, no meaningful change ever came about from pie-in-the-sky dreaming alone.

If you want change, it takes real, hard work. Moreover, most change happens incrementally, and even when sweeping and dramatic change occurs, it is only because the foundation had been laid for it.

If people want a 1,000 ft tower in downtown Indianapolis, then perhaps they should lobby for better mass transit, encourage more residential development downtown, push the city to revise the planning and zoning codes to favor higher density, transit-oriented development, ensure the city maintains a competitive tax and regulatory environment, improve public schools, etc. When Indianapolis is made into a highly desirable city to live and work in, AND all the empty and/or under-utilized space, even right in the city's core, is filled up, THEN you will see tall skyscrapers being constructed.

Exactly.
Best place to start is make the city safer.
Everyone benefits from that.
What i said is my ultimate goal but to get there as you said there are *steps* you need.
Heck if i were Mayor heres step one to get the city started. Right now the Mayor makes 95,000$ a year. I would take a 40,000$ paycut and hire one officer from that and encourage other government employees to take paycuts and help hire more officers to the streets to make Indy safer.
Also Kangaroo i support Mass Transit like everyone else but i am also realistic on it. I don't want to see a Lucas Oil thing where taxpayers have to fund all the Mass Transit and it doesn't get much use. If mass transit is going to be built i would start short term by tripling the Bus Service and offering it to Hamilton and Hendricks counties and get Bus Rapid Transit going. Save the rail lines for when we have atleast 200k-250k people working in Downtown Indianapolis every day. Also the density of the northeast corridor needs to be higher and plus it needs to expand out farther than Noblesville. Maybe Cicero would be better so i would wait on rail mass transit until its economically viable and heck i like the idea to use the People Mover in downtown and just extend that.

GarfieldPark

February 12th, 2012, 04:23 AM

ablerock

February 12th, 2012, 06:24 AM

Let's try to keep it on-topic and about CityWay everyone (self-included). As we all know, there's a discussion forum for general Indianapolis development and pie-in-the-sky ideas.

DowntownIndianapolis

February 12th, 2012, 03:46 PM

^^ Good luck with that. I'm sure the local employees down at the City County building will be lining up to volunteer to have their salaries lowered.

Did the thought ever occur to you that if you want to densify the NE corridor, you shouldn't extend it out to Cicero so people can live all the way out there in the farm fields and ride in from there?

BTW -- your description of the transit plan you'd like to see is pretty much exactly what is in the current IndyConnect transit plan.

Key word to get them to follow suit is as i said lead by example and pressure.
Politically speaking they would be willing to take a paycut if the Mayor did it and they were up for reelection :)
Politicians get desperate when its up to their reelection and thats what you use to your advantage :)
And if thats the exact Indyconnect plan then the statehouse needs to stop $%^&ing around and pass it and atleast let Marion and Hamilton Counties decide. Election year is coming up so hmmm.

IndyYeah

February 12th, 2012, 10:18 PM

Let's try to keep it on-topic and about CityWay everyone (self-included). As we all know, there's a discussion forum for general Indianapolis development and pie-in-the-sky ideas.

Good thought, now what else should we expect with CityWay?

ablerock

February 13th, 2012, 12:43 AM

Good thought, now what else should we expect with CityWay?

I'm mostly curious about when we'll see the YMCA go up. I haven't heard much about a firm timeline for that. I'm also excited about all the streetscape improvements we'll see. I'm curious about when that will all start as well.

GarfieldPark

February 13th, 2012, 03:38 PM

I noticed this morning that they have started installing the windows in the apartment building north of the Dolce Hotel. I'll be interested to see the exterior siding that goes up on that building as well. Things are moving pretty quickly. Hotel is getting ready to start on its fourth floor. New residential building to the east of the Hotel has started up and is now on its second level.

hoosier

February 18th, 2012, 06:43 AM

Key word to get them to follow suit is as i said lead by example and pressure.
Politically speaking they would be willing to take a paycut if the Mayor did it and they were up for reelection :)
Politicians get desperate when its up to their reelection and thats what you use to your advantage :)
And if thats the exact Indyconnect plan then the statehouse needs to stop $%^&ing around and pass it and atleast let Marion and Hamilton Counties decide. Election year is coming up so hmmm.

Please quit posting until you learn how to write and cease from fouling up this place with useless spam. Stop subjecting us to the random brain farts of a teenager.

moochie

February 29th, 2012, 05:21 PM

edit - I put 2-29-2011.. it should be 2012.. and it won't let me change it..

Looking South on Delaware
http://indianapolisparking.net/ns.jpg

http://indianapolisparking.net/ns1.jpg

Looking North on Delaware and South streets
http://indianapolisparking.net/ns2.jpg

Looking East on Delaware and South streets
http://indianapolisparking.net/ns3.jpg

Looking West on South and Alabama streets
http://indianapolisparking.net/ns4.jpg

Looking North on South and Alabama streets
http://indianapolisparking.net/ns5.jpg

From the top of the Virginia Ave garage
http://indianapolisparking.net/ns6.jpg

GarfieldPark

February 29th, 2012, 09:13 PM

Its already changing things a lot -- but there is plenty more to come. There are four buildings well underway so far -- with three more still to come on the main block in the first phase of the project. Then, there are still about three or four more buildings that are proposed in the second phase of work on a few of the surrounding blocks. Hopefully things will be firmed up with the construction plans for the YMCA within a year or so. I doubt if they will start on it before the main "Phase I" work is done - but hopefully we'll see that get started sometime in 2013.

The other thing that will be so great to see down here will be all of the street trees that will soften this area immensely. For so long Delaware Street and its surroundings in this area has been just asphalt and dusty sidewalks. That view along Delaware Street will look doubly good once the new trees, grass and sidewalks are put in. The way things are moving with this project -- hopefully that could happen before the end of the year.

moochie

February 29th, 2012, 09:30 PM

The CityWay name has really grown on me, and when you consider the type of people they're assumedly marketing to, it makes a lot of sense. Midwesterners, not necessarily used to the "City Way" of living. Months after the name change and after spending a lot of time deriding the name, I'm doing a complete reversal... Still love the video.

CityWay flyover/promo vid:

Actual renderings start around the :30 mark. It's lifestyle shots until then.

I recommend bumping up the quality to 720p and going full screen.

http://youtu.be/rOWoppEVm1c?hd=1

EddieB317

February 29th, 2012, 10:35 PM

City Way is getting more bearable, but it is hard to get over the fact that they had a great name in North of South. Had they never had NoS i think I would like City Way even more.

It might not be as easy to market upfront, but NoS relates the building to the area nicely and would have great staying power. I think City Way will sound stale rather quickly, after the marketing campaign tapers off...

If that is my biggest gripe then this should be a winner!

moochie

February 29th, 2012, 10:59 PM

I can't remember, is SODO (South of Downtown) well and truly dead or just on hold? I liked that name for some reason. Maybe it just reminds me of Soho.

City Way is getting more bearable, but it is hard to get over the fact that they had a great name in North of South. Had they never had NoS i think I would like City Way even more.

It might not be as easy to market upfront, but NoS relates the building to the area nicely and would have great staying power. I think City Way will sound stale rather quickly, after the marketing campaign tapers off...

If that is my biggest gripe then this should be a winner!

moochie

March 1st, 2012, 02:35 PM

Oddly, Fox59 announces "new" renderings about this "new" development downtown...

http://www.fox59.com/news/wxin-cityway-downtown-cityway-neighborhood-renderings-released-20120229,0,5752972.column

keela10

March 1st, 2012, 11:02 PM

Please quit posting until you learn how to write and cease from fouling up this place with useless spam. Stop subjecting us to the random brain farts of a teenager.

And you promise not to continue to subject us to your grade school level insights..ok, Hoosier?

EddieB317

March 2nd, 2012, 06:54 AM

^^ That was almost two weeks ago... and off topic. Let sleeping dogs lie.

bwbeaver

March 3rd, 2012, 12:07 AM

The CityWay Facebook page has just uploaded some new pictures from today. Some good progress photos! https://www.facebook.com/CityWayIndy

GarfieldPark

March 3rd, 2012, 07:42 AM

I noticed this morning that they are starting to put the bricks up on the lower parts of the residential buildings along Delaware Street. They are a light tan color.

hoosier

March 3rd, 2012, 04:12 PM

And you promise not to continue to subject us to your grade school level insights..ok, Hoosier?

Who the hell are you? Six posts and you are in a position to opine on the quality of my insights? I wait with baited breath to see what sophisticated musings you provide. So far, you are off to a bad start.

keela10

March 5th, 2012, 07:38 PM

Who the hell are you? Six posts and you are in a position to opine on the quality of my insights? I wait with baited breath to see what sophisticated musings you provide. So far, you are off to a bad start.

You can stop your bullying of DowntownIndy anytime now..Thanks
We already see that you are a fucking jerk. No need to try to impress us further.

GarfieldPark

March 6th, 2012, 02:38 AM

Keela -- Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. You've made two posts on this thread -- neither of which has anything to do with the topic of the thread. I am not impressed at all with your post nor with your language. If you want to start trying to tell others how to behave on this thread, first gain a little respect yourself and demonstrate that you are a halfway civil person. You have not done that at all -- so your comments about Hoosier carry no weight at all with me.

Indy'd

March 6th, 2012, 02:35 PM

I hope SoDo spurs interest in a "stadium village" concept near Lucas Oil..........Trying to circle back to the topic at hand and also a thought I had the other day........

GarfieldPark

March 6th, 2012, 03:59 PM

Yes. Hopefully SoDo or some kind of similar plan for the site will one day rise again. I'm pretty sure the specific plan for redoing that area as a mixed use concept with commercial, residential and entertainment uses is not an active project anymore and the original developers aren't currently pursuing it. While that may be the case, the 6 or 7 acre site still is there - mostly covered with surface parking lots and a few fast food restaurants - which means it is still very ripe for development.

I'm sure there is still a strong interest in that site from the development community. Its more just a matter of time before the fianancing might be able to be put in place and the market is right again for a company to renew its efforts for the site. As the site is surrounded by Lilly, Rolls Royce, Wellpoint and Farm Bureau Insurance offices - and just three or so blocks south of the heart of the CBD - maybe some new office facilities could fit onto the site as well when a new plan is developed. I would think that there might be an interest from potential office tenants to want to lease space that is close to these other major companies. It would be great to see a mix of office, residential and commercial on the site.

I haven't heard about any plans for the area to the west of Lucas Oil Stadium. Maybe having the Crane Bay events center over there might spur some similar or complementary businesses. There is a lot of open land over there in the SW quadrant -- and I don't know when that might start to get filled in with new development. Right now there is so much development activity in the other three quadrants of downtown that is seems to keep the SW quadrant off of the front burner. Without some type of accelerant to ignite interest, this area might continue to be pretty slow to see much change. Just my off the cuff thoughts.

moochie

March 6th, 2012, 04:37 PM

I looked back in the news and saw that SODO was indeed killed about 3 years ago. From what little I remember about it, it was a few hotels and a theatre. Not surprising that it didn't go through in retrospect. What the site needs is closer to what CityWay is, mixed use residential. I'm thinking CityWay will be a resounding success, and that may spur development on the site.

What is going on with the winery building down there? I think the winery is closed.. is the building occupied?

Yes. Hopefully SoDo or some kind of similar plan for the site will one day rise again. I'm pretty sure the specific plan for redoing that area as a mixed use concept with commercial, residential and entertainment uses is not an active project anymore and the original developers aren't currently pursuing it. While that may be the case, the 6 or 7 acre site still is there - mostly covered with surface parking lots and a few fast food restaurants - which means it is still very ripe for development.

I'm sure there is still a strong interest in that site from the development community. Its more just a matter of time before the fianancing might be able to be put in place and the market is right again for a company to renew its efforts for the site. As the site is surrounded by Lilly, Rolls Royce, Wellpoint and Farm Bureau Insurance offices - and just three or so blocks south of the heart of the CBD - maybe some new office facilities could fit onto the site as well when a new plan is developed. I would think that there might be an interest from potential office tenants to want to lease space that is close to these other major companies. It would be great to see a mix of office, residential and commercial on the site.

I haven't heard about any plans for the area to the west of Lucas Oil Stadium. Maybe having the Crane Bay events center over there might spur some similar or complementary businesses. There is a lot of open land over there in the SW quadrant -- and I don't know when that might start to get filled in with new development. Right now there is so much development activity in the other three quadrants of downtown that is seems to keep the SW quadrant off of the front burner. Without some type of accelerant to ignite interest, this area might continue to be pretty slow to see much change. Just my off the cuff thoughts.

CorrND

March 6th, 2012, 04:45 PM

moochie

March 6th, 2012, 04:59 PM

Chateau Thomas Winery used to be located in that building many years ago. They're out in Plainfield now. That building is now 501 on Madison (apartments) and a puppet studio (http://www.peewinklespuppets.com/puppets2.html).

Interestingly, the SODO site is still active:

http://sodoindy.com/

That's a pretty convincing video on that site.. I don't think I'd ever seen it before.

In retrospect though, it seems that they were trying to create what Georgia Street has become. They talk a lot about connecting the Stadiums and the Convention Center to downtown with an entertainment district. They saw the site as an "anchor".. maybe it could still be.

Perhaps this is the best location for a big box urban Target type store as an anchor with mixed use office/residential?

kangaroo1

March 6th, 2012, 11:07 PM

You can stop your bullying of DowntownIndy anytime now..Thanks
We already see that you are a fucking jerk. No need to try to impress us further.

Keela, bullying requires some sort of intimidation or threat. You may disagree with Hoosier's comments, but he was neither intimidating nor threatening.

This is a discussion board. People post their opinions, and others post responses in agreement or disagreement, or offering a completely different angle on an issue. It is not bullying to tell another poster that you think their opinion is illogical or that their posts are poorly written and not well thought-out. Nor is it bullying to tell someone to stop posting what you consider to be nonsense.

The only guidelines to follow is that everyone should avoid using threats, racist/misogynist/homophobic or other hateful language, defamatory comments, or personally abusive attacks. I don't think Hoosier made any sort of comments that violated these guidelines.

If you cannot handle people making pointed responses and telling others that they disagree with their opinions, and sometimes doing so in a blunt manner, then perhaps this is not the best place for you to spend your time on the Web.

Indy'd

March 7th, 2012, 03:25 PM

in retrospect, I meant to say I hope NoS helps spur a stadium village concept, but the discussion went as planned. haha

dtIndydweller

March 7th, 2012, 06:48 PM

................

Perhaps this is the best location for a big box urban Target type store as an anchor with mixed use office/residential?

^^ I would suggest the best location for a big box downtown Target, Bed Bath and Beyond, maybe Petsmart would be the old Coca Cola Facility at 10th and Mass Ave. Isn't the city looking for someone to develop that sight and get rid of the school bus parking lot? They could do an urban outdoor mall atmosphere that wouldn't compete with Circle Center. There is plenty of parking on that sight. They should incorporate the historic art deco facades into the new with and "urban" flare. Most downtown residential projects are based in the NE quadrant of downtown Indy. It would also help spur more foot travel to the rest of Mass Ave. That Coca Cola sight has numerous large scale building that could accomodate a Target or other large big box retailer. Just a thought.

moochie

March 7th, 2012, 07:10 PM

^^ I would suggest the best location for a big box downtown Target, Bed Bath and Beyond, maybe Petsmart would be the old Coca Cola Facility at 10th and Mass Ave. Isn't the city looking for someone to develop that sight and get rid of the school bus parking lot? They could do an urban outdoor mall atmosphere that wouldn't compete with Circle Center. There is plenty of parking on that sight. They should incorporate the historic art deco facades into the new with and "urban" flare. Most downtown residential projects are based in the NE quadrant of downtown Indy. It would also help spur more foot travel to the rest of Mass Ave. That Coca Cola sight has numerous large scale building that could accomodate a Target or other large big box retailer. Just a thought.

Another great location would be the Westside of downtown between IUPUI and the towers. look at all those freaking parking lots that could be built on... I like that better than your suggestion. It's more visible to foot and vehicle traffic than your site, and the Coca Cola building will be developed eventually.. The site is just prime, prime, prime.

I don't think that "plenty of parking" is a good selling point for an urban big box store.

dtIndydweller

March 7th, 2012, 07:41 PM

^^I absolutely agree that "plenty of parking" should NOT be the main focus for a development... however, with that said, you NEED plentiful, easy and cheap (preferably FREE) parking, for such said stores. I was just trying to convey that the space already exists that would need minimal re-investment in turning the Coca-Cola buildings into and urban mall (with parking) similar to Rookwood in Cincinnati which if I'm not mistaking used to be a factory turned into a shopping mall. Having a such mall at the end of Mass Ave, with the new Trailside Apts across the street, the Braxton and Central Restaurant Apts a few block away coming online soon, would also help business on Mass Ave. The projects would have symbiotic relationships feeding off of one another. I would agree that filling in some of the parking lots near One America and the canal with residential projects is a GREAT thing and could eventually make the NW side quadrant the most populous quadrant of downtown, but currently I think the NE is more suitable and the more walkable quadrant with St. Joe, Lockerbie, Chatham Arch neighborhoods, not to leave out Near Northside, Cole-Noble, and Cottage Home. All are within an easy walk of that N. Mass Ave location, and those that would rather drive a car to shop, there is plenty of already available parking. A deal could be worked out with Riley area to allow so many spaces to be used as overflow for Mass Ave. I doubt people from Near North side would walk to a Target near One America and the Canal. That area would draw only from the Canal district and maybe IUPUI which most housing is near the White River and would be a long walk. I live at 9th and Alabama and would easily walk to the N end of Mass and do all the time to eat at R Bistro and Black Market.
http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa215/baronalex/ResidentialProjectMap-1.png

Overall I'm not really disagreeing with you. Somewhere downtown we need a Target.

cailes

March 8th, 2012, 02:35 PM

DTIndyDweller, you do not NEED free and/or cheap parking. That is the suburban sales model of subusidizing foot traffic through the preferred transportation standard of the region. Is it the plan of choice here? Yes, but if you ever plan to change that, affecting land use is the prime place to start. To the point you made about there being more people who live in that area, you would be spot on. There are a lot of apartments in the area, and only seem to be building more so in terms of people, its not going to garner what you would see for the 116th street Super Target, but you could make a case for a scaled down model with reduced parking and less overhead.

Its a tough argument but eventually, you have to put your foot down and say no cheap parking. let the market drive it.

There is a Whole Foods on the north side of Chicago which has a parking deck on top of it like the Fresh Market here in Indy. However, they CHARGE for parking at that deck if you are not shopping at Whole Foods. Its a great example of market driven parking. If Target chose a similar model, they could give wavers to people who chose to park on their deck. In the end, Target would be covering the high costs associated with parking and they would not be spreading it out on valuable land that could be used for more residential, pedestrian spaces/parks or transit centers. etc.

Indy'd

March 8th, 2012, 03:01 PM

Of course we need not go further than to tal about the Target in DT Minneapolis. It is tucked into the urban fabric like any other building and constantly has some of the best sales for the region........

I'd like to take this time to point out that there is no "free" parking. If you perceive free parking, this means people like me are footing the bill or the community development pattern suffers. Why are we in an infrastructure crunch? subsidized driving habits!

GarfieldPark

March 8th, 2012, 03:07 PM

Yes, I've thought that the Coca Cola building would definitely be good for some good mix of uses including plenty of retail. I've wondered whether it would work to have Simon become an owner of the site and put in some type of urban "outlet style" mall. A little bit like Edinburgh Outlets - but perhaps with a more unique and "urban" set of stores. I don't think the "big box" types of stores would be bad there either -- although I wouldn't want all of the space to be taken up by those types of businesses. The streetfront storefronts should have as much local flavor as possible -- some restaurants, a bar or two, a few nice local shops. Maybe further back there could be some type of anchor like a Target -- mixed in with some other specialty stores. Its pretty cool the way the buildings on that site are already laid out -- it is fairly similar to the way many of the newer "lifestyle" centers are already set up. I'd like to see most of the current surface spaces filled up with mid rise residential. Some type of structured parking should be built on the site as well.

Sequeing from my mention of Simon as a possible owner / manager of the site - (and I'm definitely not set on them having to be the operator) - there was a story in this morning's IBJ about Simon spending about $2 Billion to buy a controlling stake in the Paris based firm "Klepierre" which has a 271 property European portfolio, mostly in France, Belgium and Scandinavia. They also spent another $1.5 Billion to buy out a partner that owns 26 retail properties across the U.S., including about a dozen of the "Mills" outlet malls.

I'm curious if Simon will soon become another Indianapolis based Fortune 500 company. I've seen where they have ranked at various spots in the 500's and 600's over the past few years. Maybe this will increase their revenue enough to get them to a nice spot in the 400's. Here is a link to the story:

http://www.ibj.com/simon-property-group-goes-on-35b-spending-spree-/PARAMS/article/33102

GarfieldPark

March 8th, 2012, 03:09 PM

Sorry -- I just realized we are getting a little bit away from the topic of this thread - namely North of South / CityWay. I'll post the Simon story in the regular Indy Development thread as well.

EddieB317

March 9th, 2012, 12:18 AM

Simon needs to stay as far away from the coke building as possible! While I like having them in Indianapolis, their business model dumbs down everything, steps on the little guy, and homogenizes everything. I like all that they have done and I like the impact circle centre had on DT, but if we want to be unique and build a real identity as a city we should avoid mall operators at all cost. One corporate mall is enough.

I would rather see an open air walking mall full of independents with something like Target anchoring. Simon doesn't play well with independents and they don't take chances on young entrepreneurs. For them it's all about cash flow, not building neighborhoods and culture.

unvrsty07

March 9th, 2012, 04:57 AM

GarfieldPark

March 9th, 2012, 04:59 AM

Yes -- I agree completely. I had just read the article about Simon acquiring the French company and the "Mills Outlet malls" properties -- so they were on my mind. I stated I definitely wasn't in any way tied to them being part of a remake of the Coca Cola property -- but I probably should have just left them out of my comment because I hope they stay away - like you said. It could be a completely wonderful corner of fantastic local shops, restaurants, clubs -- you name it. It needs to stay independent and run by some group of smart, edgy, unique local people.

bwbeaver

March 11th, 2012, 12:34 AM

Could anyone tell me how to post pictures on here? Can't seem to get them to work. I have some pictures of CityWay, but can't put them up!

EddieB317

March 12th, 2012, 07:27 PM

SSC doesn't host pictures on their servers. You have to put them up on a site like picasa or flicker first and then embed them in your posts using the photo tool above the text entry box. (view the image on picasa, right click on the image, select copy image address, then paste that into the photo tool pop up box... Also, some photo hosting sites will also have the image address next to the photo so you can copy and paste it)

BTW, the picture hosting site "photobucket" sometimes has issues with SSC.

bwbeaver

March 20th, 2012, 03:13 AM

http://www.flickr.com/photos/77764477@N03/6969862761/

Thanks for the reply. Not sure why it is not populating the picture, but there is the link to the picture I took at the beginning of March. A lot has changed and I have more that I have posted to the CityWay Facebook page. If anyone would like more updated pictures check out http://www.facebook.com/CityWayIndy. I am the one that has been getting the progress pictures up for people to see. Great place to see some of the news updates on different aspects of the project too.

bwbeaver

March 22nd, 2012, 03:06 AM

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7085/6858395688_cc7c5cc17e_b.jpg
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7273/6858390076_ed873dc4b0_b.jpg
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7138/6858390284_c347a9be30_b.jpg
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7137/6858390556_df6b89d50e_b.jpg
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7188/6858390730_3b0156c6b7_b.jpg
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7193/6858391238_59eebeca36_b.jpg
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7280/6858391436_36f44e9af2_b.jpg
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7215/6858392138_66e31a6a45_b.jpg
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7221/7004508665_0e8b102b3a_b.jpg
http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6218/6858393508_ef805878f1_b.jpg
http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6218/6858393508_ef805878f1_b.jpg
http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6218/6858393508_ef805878f1_b.jpg
http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6233/6858396228_d738f8fa5d_b.jpg
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7065/6858395958_d58d0e8800_b.jpg

I finally figured this posting pictures deal! Here are the pictures that I got today. Walking around in dress clothes and a tie on a construction site in 80 degrees is not fun! On the other hand, awesome to see the change happening.

GarfieldPark

March 22nd, 2012, 07:31 PM

bwbeaver

March 25th, 2012, 09:34 PM

Great --- thanks for getting out and taking these photos. It was amazingly hot for a Wednesday in late March. Mid '80's again.

Your shots do help give a good idea of the size of this project and how it relates to the core of downtown. Still three more main residential buildings to be built in phase 1 (including the residential structure that will be added on to the main garage that is currently under construction) -- and then possibly three more and the YMCA in phase 2

Thanks again. Hopefully we'll be able to see more updates in the future.

-To give a little insider information (I actually work at our Discovery Center for CityWay and can say being this close to the project is a dream come true) The YMCA is a part of the first phase with construction taking place March of 2013 ( if fundraising permits) and will sit directly where the Discovery Center on the southeast corner of Delaware and South. The first parking garage being constructed will be finished, if all goes according to the timeline, in July since it is being poured instead of prefabricated. The second garage has started, or will shortly, and finish before October of this year. Each garage will be wrapped by residential on all sides, besides the west side that faces the first residential/retail buildings. The finish timeline for the remaining buildings will be Spring of 2013. Maybe sooner since weather has been unbelievable!

The second phase is still a work in progress. We have gotten a ton of foot traffic that believe they are condos and are wanting to purchase ( and we all know how many over priced condos are downtown and that there is a huge market for much more affordable buying options for urban dwellers ). What is a very interesting portion is that with the remaining space on the site, almost another CityWay development could be placed. There are so many details about the neighborhood that I could type a short novel about

If anyone wants to come out and see the CityWay Discovery Center to see everything. I would be more than happy to. Personally, I love this type of development and how high the bar is being placed for future developments ( good thing its before all the parking lots downtown start going through their redevelopments also). It would be nice to meet some of the posters that I have been reading for quite some time too! Send me a pm if anyone is interested in doing so!

cwilson758

March 26th, 2012, 06:41 PM

bwbeaver

March 27th, 2012, 04:27 AM

I hope this development prompts the City to unload all of the green space around the Anthem campus so it too can be developed. I recently found out that the City owns that land and leases the site to Anthem - what a great opportunity to connect downtown to Fletcher Place & Fountain Sq.

We could hope that will be on the cities next agenda after all the parking lots. Even if the city would utilize the space more as a park with interactive art pieces. Could play off the Cultural Trail and the art that will be placed at CityWay.

GarfieldPark

March 27th, 2012, 06:10 AM

I noticed they put the large extending "roof surfboard" (or whatever you call it) up on the west end of the roof of the Alexander. Looking good. It definitely adds some more texture and variation to the complex.

Also BWBeaver -- you were talking about all of the room that remains available for phase II. With the interest from people in buying condos -- do you think there is a possibility that some of the future development in phase II may include some "for purchase" residences?

ablerock

March 27th, 2012, 05:22 PM

I hope this development prompts the City to unload all of the green space around the Anthem campus so it too can be developed. I recently found out that the City owns that land and leases the site to Anthem - what a great opportunity to connect downtown to Fletcher Place & Fountain Sq.

Wow! Sweet! I always imagined there being a big battle in the future for Anthem to give it all up.

I'll also throw in that those triangular lots really presents an unique opportunity to create a special public space as well more high-density mixed use.

I could see it being used to create one of arenn's "hundred monument circle" spaces.

cwilson758

April 3rd, 2012, 04:47 PM

moochie

April 5th, 2012, 09:09 PM

Man, construction is just taking off like a rocket down there! I only had time for a couple quick pix today.

http://indianapolisparking.net/r.jpg

http://indianapolisparking.net/r1.jpg

ablerock

April 6th, 2012, 04:17 PM

This should be changed to U/C

FYI, I found this while surfing and don't know if it's been posted
http://www.indianapolismonthly.com/Pics//PhotoAlbums/124401/19/Buckingham_NoSo_Hero_Night_121411__500X500.Jpeg

I love the density this is bringing

I posted a huge version of that and a bunch of others, but it looks like Buckingham killed the links. I'll see if I actually downloaded them and fix the links.

ablerock

April 6th, 2012, 04:21 PM

They've posted all the residential floor plans on cityway.com

Most of them are huge!

http://cityway.com/apartments/floor-plans

Look at this one!
http://cityway.com/Modules/CityWay/Style/images/floorplans/cw02_flrp_unit_b4.png

hoosier

April 7th, 2012, 07:25 PM

I wonder who can afford to live there. The rents are astronomical.

illogicaljake

April 9th, 2012, 04:48 PM

I wonder who can afford to live there. The rents are astronomical.

I didn't see prices on the website. Do they have them listed?

Indy'd

April 9th, 2012, 06:27 PM

I had always assumed it was for corporate folks for Lilly and some high end business people who may travel here for extended stays or frequently.........I never expected I could live there. haha

k2h

May 11th, 2012, 07:42 AM

CityWay was the main sponsor for the 500 Festival Mini Marathon and they had a very interesting videographic, along with well informed representatives providing details of the project at the Expo event. Did any of you see it? These people have the marketing down. Photos taken Sunday, May 6th.

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5275/7174576794_c3ce192b51.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/k2h/7174576794/)
Indiana Trip - May 2012 333 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/k2h/7174576794/) by k2h2007 (http://www.flickr.com/people/k2h/), on Flickr

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5452/7174577324_be91f40368.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/k2h/7174577324/)
Indiana Trip - May 2012 334 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/k2h/7174577324/) by k2h2007 (http://www.flickr.com/people/k2h/), on Flickr

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7217/7174578444_37c3ca6215.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/k2h/7174578444/)
Indiana Trip - May 2012 336 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/k2h/7174578444/) by k2h2007 (http://www.flickr.com/people/k2h/), on Flickr

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8011/7174582674_d0cfbe54cf.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/k2h/7174582674/)
Indiana Trip - May 2012 344 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/k2h/7174582674/) by k2h2007 (http://www.flickr.com/people/k2h/), on Flickr

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7104/7174585580_201f925d3f.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/k2h/7174585580/)
Indiana Trip - May 2012 348 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/k2h/7174585580/) by k2h2007 (http://www.flickr.com/people/k2h/), on Flickr

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7213/7174579658_bca18d28c9.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/k2h/7174579658/)
Indiana Trip - May 2012 339 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/k2h/7174579658/) by k2h2007 (http://www.flickr.com/people/k2h/), on Flickr

bwbeaver

May 11th, 2012, 07:35 PM

I wanted to get some of these progress pictures up that I took this week since it has been a little while since the last post! A lot has happened since then! Buckingham and CityWay have been trying to market to everyone that can enjoy the many assest the community will be able to use. From the park spaces, public art, restaurants, retail spaces, and offices. Pricing for The Residences starts at $975 for a one bedroom / one bath with balconly, very comparable to other downtown properties.

K2H, looks like you had gotten out a couple days before I did! They have finished up the balconies on Delaware Street, and are moving along with The Alexanders Facade. IPL is preparing for all the utility lines to start coming down.

Also, for any of the photographers out there, CityWay is starting a monthly photo contest to win prizes of various items for the winning photo. Each month there will be a general theme to go by, but anyone is welcome to submit their best photo's to info@cityway.com

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7234/7171953818_893468c8e6_c.jpg

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7237/7171957890_fea6f36e53_c.jpg

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7234/7171954370_f67dca32b8_c.jpg

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7079/7171955030_b11ba7be2d_c.jpg

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http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7076/7171956110_5b5ea99c8f_c.jpg

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http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7237/7171957390_2a9e0fee8e_c.jpg

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http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7093/7171962394_73011eda5d_c.jpg

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7243/7171964414_b3d5eaaa19_c.jpg

GarfieldPark

May 13th, 2012, 08:14 AM

I really like this last shot ^^ and the way it shows how CityWay helps connect the Lilly campus (and the rest of the near SE side) to downtown. Instead of a six block gap of almost nothing but parking lots and a parking garage, after this project - and the YMCA that will be going in soon - there will only be one block of surface parking between the Lilly campus and the core of downtown. SO MUCH better!

GarfieldPark

May 22nd, 2012, 08:17 PM

http://www.ibj.com/retail-lineup-taking-shape-for-cityway/PARAMS/article/34556

Retail lineup taking shape for CityWay project

CityWay has landed a fine dining restaurant, a mixology bar, a Qdoba and a frozen yogurt shop as developer Buckingham Cos. turns its attention to the retail portion of the $155 million mixed-use project.

The 40,000-square-foot first phase of retail at CityWay is on track to be 90-percent leased by year's end, said Natasha Evans, Buckingham's director of leasing, during an interview at the International Council of Shopping Centers annual deal-making convention in Las Vegas.

Buckingham has closed leases for roughly 15,000 square feet and is finalizing another 10,000 square feet of retail deals to complement the project's boutique hotel, luxury apartments and YMCA branch.

Among the first committed tenants: Cerulean Restaurant, an "ingredient-driven" fine dining experience led by Indiana chef Caleb France, which is taking a 6,200-square-foot first-floor space in The Alexander hotel. France operates a critically acclaimed restaurant of the same name in Winona Lake, Ind.

A mixology bar and American brasserie called Plat 99 is taking 6,600 square feet on the second floor. The name was inspired by CityWay's spot on Alexander Ralston's original plat of Indianapolis.

Fast-casual restaurants and bars plan to take the first floors of the three apartment buildings along the east side of Delaware Street. The lineup will include Qdoba (opening a second downtown location), a national self-serve frozen yogurt chain, a 4,200-square-foot regional sports bar and a homegrown pizza concept, retail industry sources said.

Additionally, one of the more interesting points in the article in my opinion was toward the end where it mentioned that in the "Phase II" part of the project, they are working to get a 48,000 sq. ft big box retailer to go in at the NW corner of Delaware and South Streets. (Downtown Target? Who knows?) It was also mentioned that with the strength of the CityWay project, discussions are re-starting regarding the development of the area just SW of CityWay, formerly referred to as the "Legends" disrict in SoDo (South of Downtown).

SpiderMonkey

May 22nd, 2012, 10:02 PM

illogicaljake

May 22nd, 2012, 10:46 PM

SpiderMonkey

May 23rd, 2012, 08:54 PM

The Marsh that is going in as part of the new Block 400 development is around 40K sf right? With the Marsh going in at Block 400 and the existing Marsh over by Mass. Ave, I would be surprised to see another grocer go in right now.

I could see something like a Bed Bath and Beyond going in. There isn't anything similar to serve the downtown Indy area and with increased residential and the M-F work force nearby I could see it being a draw. They are prevalent in urban areas up here in and around Chicago.

Indy'd

May 24th, 2012, 03:26 PM

I ran by this last night. It is really a great change for the area and the fact that the city backed it and the design and relation to the street are appropriate is great! I did roll my ankle while running by, hope that isn't a bad sign. haha

CorrND

May 24th, 2012, 03:29 PM

Cerulean is a fantastic restaurant and should be a huge hit. I have eaten at the one in Lake Winona (Warsaw) several times in the past while in the area for Orthopedics business.

I like the use of Plat 99 for the name of the bar. I always like seeing local relavent history being used and brought to light.

48,000sf isn't big enough for a Target is it? Most Targets, even the non super store Targets are near 100,000sf.
There's a new Target concept called CityTarget that's about 55k sq.ft. From wikipedia:

CityTarget
On February 15, 2011, Target announced plans to open its newest store concept, called CityTarget. The first store will be opened in Chicago. The store will allocate approximately 55,000 sq ft (5,100 m²) to its sales floor. CityTarget stores will carry fresh food, clothing, and apartment essentials. Items too bulky for urban apartments or for customers to carry will not be stocked in a CityTarget, even if such items are commonly available in traditional Target stores.

SpiderMonkey

May 24th, 2012, 04:19 PM

There's a new Target concept called CityTarget that's about 55k sq.ft. From wikipedia:

CityTarget
On February 15, 2011, Target announced plans to open its newest store concept, called CityTarget. The first store will be opened in Chicago. The store will allocate approximately 55,000 sq ft (5,100 m²) to its sales floor. CityTarget stores will carry fresh food, clothing, and apartment essentials. Items too bulky for urban apartments or for customers to carry will not be stocked in a CityTarget, even if such items are commonly available in traditional Target stores.

That's a great idea. Thanks for the information. This is the first I have heard of this concept. I think downtown Indy would be a great fit for a CityTarget.

TrafficSignal

May 31st, 2012, 01:17 PM

The CityWay development is generating more work for artists—this time three Indiana muralists who will paint the facades of downtown-Indianapolis rail bridges.

Now, Buckingham is looking to make a splash beyond CityWay’s boundaries. Founder and CEO Brad Chambers’ private family foundation, the Buckingham Foundation, worked with the Arts Council of Indianapolis to obtain permission from CSX to paint the bridges that cross Delaware Street near Bankers Life Fieldhouse and on South Street, just around the corner from CityWay.

The arts council is still working out details with CSX, but hopes to see painting start by mid-summer.

http://www.ibj.com/cityway-developer-funding-downtown-murals/PARAMS/article/34674

moochie

June 13th, 2012, 08:14 PM

This is the building on Alabama and South

http://www.ibj.com/ext/resources/blog/propertylines/C/CityWay-Office-Indianapolis.jpg

and the article on property lines:

http://www.ibj.com/property-lines-2012-06-13-new-rendering--cityway-office-building/PARAMS/post/34957

New rendering: CityWay's 3-story office building

"CityWay developer Buckingham Cos. has begun its recruitment of tenants for an office building it plans to build at the northeast corner of Alabama and South streets just east of where it is building The Alexander hotel. The plans call for a 3-story, 24,000-square-foot building featuring walls of glass, a rooftop deck, skyline views and outdoor balconies. It would stand within walking distance of CityWay's 250 upscale apartments, retail and restaurant space, the Dolce-branded hotel with about 17,000 square feet of conference and meeting space, and a YMCA branch scheduled to open in 2014....."

I (or someone) need to get down there and take some updated pix of the whole site.. Tons of progress in the past couple weeks.

GarfieldPark

June 13th, 2012, 08:41 PM

Great. I'm excited to see this. Additional office space is good to keep as many people as possible around the many new restaurants in this project and in nearby Fletcher / Little Five Points and Fountain Square during the day. There is plenty of additional land avaiilable nearby to handle increased demand for more residential - possibly on the lot to the west across Delaware from CityWay - as well as all of the property around South Street along S. Pennsylvania and S. Meridian.

Its different looking - which I think is good. Everything else around it is pretty squared off -- so I like the angles for an interesting change.

cailes

June 13th, 2012, 09:00 PM

The combination of lower floor squareness with the upper floor angles creates a weird structure. It is still pretty nice though. Especially when compared to some of the other crap around town

moochie

June 13th, 2012, 09:04 PM

The combination of lower floor squareness with the upper floor angles creates a weird structure. It is still pretty nice though. Especially when compared to some of the other crap around town

My guess is that it's a more interesting structure than that angle shows. Need more views!

GarfieldPark

June 13th, 2012, 09:53 PM

^^ Yes -- the views from the north side of the building should be fantastic -- looking towards the heart of downtown, past the CityWay structures and the other older buildings on that block. With the fieldhouse poking up through the skyline and all of the other buildings - as well as the top of the Soldier's & Sailor's monument there would be some beautiful sunset views. I'm guessing there may be even more glass on that side of the structure to take advantage of the views.

(Its actually really too bad they didn't build a structure with a couple more floors of residential on top. Views from that angle - from the 4th, 5th and 6th floors would have been amazing. Put some decks / terraces out there - and they'd rent / sell those spots so quickly they wouldn't have time to even put together their marketing brochures.)

ablerock

June 14th, 2012, 08:16 PM

Received update from downtown neighborhood liaison about final plans for Delaware St conversion to 2-way near Lilly .

This is just regarding Delaware St, south of South Street, but I assume it will harmonize visually with all of the street improvements along South Street and on Delaware north of South St for CityWay.

---

Delaware Street

Towards the end of the project, in coordination with work on South Street, with the placement of final pavement markings, Delaware Street will become two-way from McCarty St. to South St.

The project limits are just north of Bicking St. (north of I-70) to just south of South St. The scope of the project entails spot sidewalk, curb, and access ramp replacement, resurfacing, upgrades at Merrill St. intersection and new planter median islands.

The project will be constructed in three phases.

Phase A:
The curb and sidewalk at the northwest corner of the intersection of Delaware and McCarty will be (already complete) moved back several feet.

Phase B:
Mill existing pavement, patch as needed, and resurface east lanes (24’) of Delaware St. from south to north construction limits.

Phase C:
Spot sidewalk, curb, and access ramp replacement along the Delaware St. west right-of-way. Lilly garage drive approaches along the west side of Delaware north of McCarty will be modified to accommodate traffic entering from the north. The Merrill Street intersection will be completely renovated featuring decorative paver lines in the pavement and paver sidewalk approaches. A new pedestrian signal will be added. New depressed planting areas will be installed within the limits of Delaware St. running for several tens of feet north and south of the Merrill St. intersection separating the north bound and south bound lanes of traffic. The planting areas will be bordered on all sides with concrete curb. One stand alone planting area will be installed between Merrill and South Streets. The last work item will include milling of existing pavement, patching as needed, and resurfacing for the balance of Delaware St. from south to north construction limits.

bwbeaver

June 17th, 2012, 06:52 PM

I was able to get some pictures yesterday and things are really coming along.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7094/7387299746_df81398f3f_c.jpg

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5335/7387301126_cea41018d5_c.jpg

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http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7085/7387313784_5c7c6f277d_c.jpg

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7233/7387315622_8599bd7f24_c.jpg

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5469/7387324986_ee991d9141_c.jpg

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7241/7387326686_a1bdaa50fc_c.jpg

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7230/7387332090_955b36af44_c.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8155/7387333784_7d7460347e_c.jpg

GarfieldPark

June 19th, 2012, 04:03 AM

Nice shots! Its good to see the colors being added to this project. (btw -- I'm pretty sure I was driving by as you were taking these pictures the other day. You had a blue, short sleeve shirt on.) Thanks for taking the photos . Its exciting to know there are still a couple more buildings to be built as part of phase 1 of this project -- and then several more in Phase 2. Should keep this thread interesting for quite a while longer as this part of SE downtown continues to grow.

GarfieldPark

July 3rd, 2012, 09:39 PM

News about the changes occurring to Delaware and South Streets in the areas near this project:

http://www.ibj.com/south-street-to-close-near-downtown-cityway-project/PARAMS/article/35346

GarfieldPark

July 19th, 2012, 04:47 AM

I was at an open house at the CityWay visitor's center tonight. I learned that the first two residential buildings (along Delaware street - north of the Dolce - Alexander Hotel) will be opening in October and that of the 99 units in the two buildings, currently, 90% have already been leased.

ablerock

July 19th, 2012, 02:04 PM

CorrND

July 19th, 2012, 05:27 PM

kangaroo1

July 23rd, 2012, 07:41 PM

Boy, this sure was a risky investment of taxpayer money... :)

Actually, it was a risky investment. While I support the City Way project and I am glad the city financed it, your comment basically falls under the old-saying of "hindsight is 20/20." The two apartment buildings turned out to be successful, but that does not mean the apartment component, nor certainly the project as a whole, was or even still is without risk of financial loss.

Had this been a very low-risk or risk-free investment, then the city would not have had to finance it. A bank would have gladly made a loan.

While I disagreed with those who opposed the city financing of the project, I certainly recognize that they made legitimate points about the financial risk to the taxpayers and also whether it was appropriate for the city to get in the business of lending money to private developers, especially for a project located on private property and not in a blighted area.

CorrND

July 23rd, 2012, 09:11 PM

kangaroo1

July 23rd, 2012, 10:54 PM

I think the scale of the project probably scared banks at the moment they were putting the project together. They announced the project in mid-2010, so they were probably working on it as far back as 2009. $155M for ANYTHING in 2009-10? Not likely.

To me, though, the scale of the project is exactly what's going to make it successful. This is a project large enough to create its own gravity, the thing that will help drive the retail portion that is probably the riskiest component.

Yes, it was a bad time to get financing, but many projects did get financing, and certainly projects that cost far more than $155 million. Shopping centers were still built, subdivisions went up, high-rises were erected all around the country.

Now, I assume it would be more likely that private financing could be obtained, but that does not mean the project did not or does not have risks.

Also, as you point out, the retail and commercial components are more risky, and the city deal with the developer conveniently lets the developer default on parts of the project without defaulting on the whole project. So, say even if the apartments and the hotel are very successful, if the retail and/or commercial space cannot be leased out and the developer defaults on paying back the loans just on that portion of the development, then the city is on the hook for that amount. So, the city still faces risk, even if the all the apartments get fully leased out.

Again, I am glad the project got built, but I do acknowledge the fact that the people who objected to the financing arrangement made legitimate points (whether one wants to agree with them or not) and they were not just crazy anti-development individuals.

GarfieldPark

July 24th, 2012, 06:10 AM

ablerock

July 24th, 2012, 03:51 PM

Was it really that much of a risk?? I don't think so -- and I didn't think it was that big of a risk back when it was announced.

Agreed.

ablerock

July 24th, 2012, 03:52 PM

Has anyone heard any concrete details about when the YMCA will go up? What's the last we've heard about that?

kangaroo1

July 26th, 2012, 01:53 AM

The project sits within two blocks of the world headquarters of Eli Lilly - a Fortune 100 company; within two blocks of the largest Indianapolis office complex for Wellpoint - another Fortune 100 company; is within two blocks of Farm Bureau Insurance's largest Indianapolis office complex; and is within about three blocks of Rolls Royce's soon to be main Indianapolis offices. There are approximately 15,000 employees of these major corporations working within three blocks of this complex.

Lilly is a major supporter of the development of this complex. When Lilly wants something to happen and be successful in this City - they make it happen. They will make sure that the thousands of annual business visitors to its world headquarters will be staying at the hotels in this complex. They understand that it should not be very difficult to lease out about 300 higher end apartments to the 15,000 employees that work within a few blocks of this complex - and of course there are another 120,000 or so employees who work in other nearby parts of downtown. (and how many hundreds of thousands of retirees live in the region who may want to downsize to a new apartment near the many amenities of downtown and get out of their suburban culdesac fronting acre lots?)

Was it really that much of a risk?? I don't think so -- and I didn't think it was that big of a risk back when it was announced. I think 99% of the opposition to the financing was just political. I let the leader of the City-County Council's minority party (at the time) know about my disappointment with her effort to oppose the funding for the project and I also let my council person (whose district was where the $155 million project was planned -and he OPPOSED IT!) know how upset I was with his opposition to the funding plan for this project. (He lost in his bid for re-election soon after he voted against the funding for this project -- coincidence?? who knows?)

Anyway --- again --- I don't think this was that big of a risk - and I'm not surprised at all that it is leasing out very well.

Was it a massive risk that put the taxpayers in grave danger of suffering a huge loss? No, nor did I suggest that.

However, I simply disagree with you that it was a low-risk or virtually no-risk project. It was, and it is a risk. The banks agreed, which in and of itself says something. You are arguing your opinion based mostly on your status as a pro-development booster, I am one too, but I also acknowledge reality.

Yes, Lilly is located there, and so is Rolls Royce, etc. But, there have always been major employers downtown and that does not mean the market necessarily supports massive amounts of new development. I agree the residential component is less risky than the commercial and retail component, but you conveniently ignored my comment about the deal the developer negotiated with the city allowing partial defaults. The old Barnes and Noble location is arguably one of the best commercial spaces in the city, and it is only just now getting partially leased for bank offices--I did not see major retailers flocking to lease out the space the moment it became available. Simon still cannot fill the vacant Nordstrom space at Circle Centre mall. Downtown currently has an office vacancy rate of approximately 18%, and it is showing a slower office absorption rate than the suburban office market, which is closing in on the downtown market, after having had a higher vacancy rate. For comparison, Columbus, OH, a similar city to Indianapolis, has a downtown office vacancy closer to 11%, or about 14% if you look at last quarter's market reports.

As for the opposition to the project, yes, I am quite sure some of it was political, but I also know most of the questions and concerns about the project from elected officials were genuine and based in their desire to meet their fiduciary responsibilities by conducting a proper due diligence. (And your insinuation about the individual who lost his re-election bid is just a little crazy, and I think you know it, when did his opposition ever even come up as a campaign issue, except in a conversation with you? Never).

All the above are facts, and I think they are important to bear in mind. Certainly, I can see we will have to agree to disagree, as the saying goes. But, I stand by my original comment that even though I did not agree with those who objected to the project, I still recognized they had, and still have, legitimate concerns.

GarfieldPark

July 26th, 2012, 06:40 PM

^^

Kangaroo1: "(And your insinuation about the individual who lost his re-election bid is just a little crazy, and I think you know it, when did his opposition ever even come up as a campaign issue, except in a conversation with you? Never)."

There were many people in my neighborhood who knew about his opposition to the "North of South" project - and I'm sure knowledge of the situation was the same in many other neighborhoods within his district such as Fletcher Place, Fountain Square, etc. It came up in several discussions - and often was brought up by the other person I was talking to without me saying anything about it. He boasted about his opposition to the financing plan for it on a couple of his campaign flyers.

Many people thought it was a bad thing for him to oppose the city's financing strategy for this project that would greatly benefit HIS DISTRICT - a large part of which is made up of the near southeast neighborhoods in and near downtown. They knew that it would be a fantastic project that would benefit the SE part of downtown, Fletcher Place, Fountain Square, Garfield Park, the Concord Neighborhood, etc. The city has helped fund all kinds of projects of all types all over the other parts of downtown and in other parts of the city. Why put up this strong opposition to a financial assistance plan from the city now - when it would help build a $155 million project within his own district?!?

It was a pretty close race for the city-council spot - and the incumbent lost by a few percentage points. I doubt this was the entire reason that led to his loss - but I think it may have had a significant amount to do with why enough people switched their vote to elect the challenger.

By the way --- it wasn't an old Barnes & Noble spot at the corner of Washington and Meridian -- it was a Borders.

GarfieldPark

July 26th, 2012, 07:13 PM

Interestingly, this story came out in today's IBJ on-line news:

http://www.ibj.com/cityway-sells-out-first-phase-of-apartments/PARAMS/article/35729

CityWay sells out first phase of apartments

Buckingham Cos. has taken deposits for all 100 apartments in the first phase of its high-profile $155 million CityWay project at Delaware and South streets in downtown Indianapolis.

The first residents of the mixed-use, mid-rise development are scheduled to move Oct. 1 into two buildings with first-floor retail along Delaware Street. Three more residential buildings with a total of 150 apartments are scheduled for completion in the spring of 2013, and already Buckingham has taken reservations on 20 of those units.

The strong response to the project's apartment offerings have led the local developer to consider adding additional units on three acres it owns along Virginia Avenue for a future phase of CityWay, and atop a planned office building at the northeast corner of South and Alabama streets.

"It's clear to us there's a very strong demand for apartments," said Scott Travis, Buckingham's senior development executive. "If the demand is still sustained toward the middle of next summer, we will look at more units."

Travis said the company hasn't developed specific plans for how many more apartments it could add or how it would finance them. CityWay's apartment buildings surround a courtyard, pool, gardens and two large parking garages for residents. The development plans also call for a boutique hotel, offices and a YMCA branch.

Downtown's roughly 7,000 apartment units were 94.4-percent occupied in 2011, a 3-percent gain over 2010, according to data compiled by locally based Tikijian Associates. Buckingham owns six other downtown properties with "minimal" vacancies, Travis said.

The quick lease-up at CityWay is even more impressive considering the above-average rental rates. Units range in price from $975 for a one-bedroom to more than $3,000 for a three-bedroom, three-bath townhouse.

The downtown average for a one-bedroom, one-bath unit in 2011 was $758, and the average for a three-bed, three-bath was $1,788, Tikijian data shows.

Deputy Mayor Michael Huber said he's encouraged that a central premise behind CityWay—that downtown could support many more apartment units—has so far proven true.

"We're really encouraged by the strong demand," he said. "We interpret that as one sign this is a good investment by the city."

(The extended article is available at the link above.)

kangaroo1

July 27th, 2012, 03:05 AM

^^

By the way --- it wasn't an old Barnes & Noble spot at the corner of Washington and Meridian -- it was a Borders.

That was a typo, I knew it was Borders. The point remains, they could not fill it up, and they only just recently partially leased it for bank offices. There is still empty space, and it is arguable a much more desirable retail location than any retail spot in the City Way Project.

As for the City County Council race, I do not think opposition to the North of South/City Way, project had any measurable impact on the City-County Council race you mention. If you could show me some polling evidence or even news reports to that effect, I might be inclined to think differently, but saying some of your friends/neighbors knew about the candidate's opposition to the project is not particularly persuasive.

I have stated several reasons why there was, and still is, some degree of financial risk involved in the city financing project. I get that you have a lot of passion for development and you like the project, but your responses to me have mainly been your regurgitate your opinion that you think there is no risk without offering much substance to back up your opinion.

I will clarify that I am not trying to attack you or make you feel bad. I am simply trying to get you to think and to avoid taking a dismissive or offended attitude toward people who might have a different, but nonetheless legitimate, point of view from you.

Again, I am excited about the project and I am glad it is appears to be doing well, so far. But, I understand why some people had objections and/or concerns about the project, and in particular the city financing.

kangaroo1

July 27th, 2012, 03:07 AM

Interestingly, this story came out in today's IBJ on-line news:

"We're really encouraged by the strong demand," he said. "We interpret that as one sign this is a good investment by the city."

(The extended article is available at the link above.)

You are highlighting a quote by the Mayor's Office, the same Mayor who sponsored the deal to permit city financing of the project, as some sort of support for your argument that it was a good investment move by the city? Really? That is a bit disingenuous. Of course, the Mayor who sponsored the deal is going to argue that it was a good investment.

Again, I am glad the apartments seem to be doing well. I hope the other phases do well, too.

bwbeaver

July 27th, 2012, 04:44 AM

All the news stories about CityWay and the progression it has made, I thought it would be helpful to see the update. Construction is really starting to progress with most every part of CityWay under construction or finishing parts of the apartments.

The remaining pictures that were taken have been uploaded to the CityWay Facebook page. If anyone is interested in seeing the progression from the beginning it has changed dramatically between March to the present. Just within one month CityWay has made a huge leap in the finishes. In my own opinion the finished product is turning out better than the renderings! Cannot wait to grab a bite to eat at one of the outdoor dining areas!

Enjoy!

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7131/7653802288_6198eff8a2.jpg
Main entry for The Alexander off of Delaware Street.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8008/7653803762_bb71ceb0a9_b.jpg
Southern residential building at the new intersection with a two way Delaware Street.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8148/7653804094_010a643719_b.jpg
First floor retail corner having windows installed. The to be completed by next summer residential buildings have started their framing process in the background.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8422/7653804896_fab0b78a78_b.jpg
Corner apartment balconies facing toward the Fieldhouse and downtown.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8286/7653805732_07cc40dcf9_b.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8150/7653806326_9b1cee92f7_b.jpg
View fronting South Delaware Street.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8285/7653807308_981e715b8e_b.jpg
Closer view of the brickwork and the retail spaces along Delaware.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8167/7653796586_c39025a42c_b.jpg
New event and green space in front of The Alexander.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8281/7653797594_0dbb1efd16_b.jpg
Corner of Delaware and South. Future Cerulean Restaurant and Platt 99 the mixology lounge on the second floor. There will be a large outdoor terrace overlooking the green space on the northside of South Street.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7114/7653793810_b699bc0ed4_b.jpg
Extended stay portion of The Alexander with improvements being made to Alabama and South Streets.

GarfieldPark

July 27th, 2012, 05:08 AM

GarfieldPark

July 27th, 2012, 06:01 AM

Kangaroo: I gave all kinds of reasons why it made sense to think the CityWay project would be a successful project. Also, I find it strange that you're trying to make a comparison about leasing 1) a six acre, seven building, mostly residential apartment complex with two types of hotel facilities and some retail space with 2) a corner retail space in a downtown building at a prime corner. It doesn't seem like you have much experience doing commercial comps. Those two "projects" or "spaces" you are trying to compare are completely different things in different markets at different prices. The success or lack of success of one isn't really going to be much of an indicator of how the other project might do. You have to look at projects individually with a good understanding of everything that impacts the particular site under the current market conditions. A higher end apartment project with a higher end hotel complex with a little bit of retail made A LOT of sense for that location in the middle of a bunch of high end, Fortune 100 employees and other top locational assets.

GarfieldPark

July 27th, 2012, 06:23 AM

Good progress is being made on the new "Fountain Plaza" at Fountain Square. I think I can tell where the area will be where the new second fountain will be going in. It'll be great once its done -- and it'll also be very nice once they open up the currently closed Cultural Trail lane that goes past it. Its pretty dangerous to have to keep turning in and out of traffic when you are traveling on the Cultural Trail and keep running into the parts that are under construction. Virginia Avenue is getting close to being complete but is not quite there yet. Hopefully by September if we're lucky.

bwbeaver

July 27th, 2012, 06:26 AM

Great photos. Thanks Bwbeaver. I was riding my bike through the area and saw all of the improvements to Delaware and South Streets. It is undoubtedly going to be a completely new, great look down there. Also -- all of that limestone on the Alexander Hotel - and on the new plaza in front of it - looks so "Bloomington". Pretty cool. Makes me feel like I'm back in college walking along 3rd Street or by the Union and Dunn Meadow. :)
Not a problem! One of the more relaxing parts to my day. It been nothing less than amazing to watch this spring up from an old parking lot into a whole neighborhood setting in under 12 months. Hopefully this has set the bar for future developments to recognize that all components need to be considered when building a engaging urban form. If it has, then we are in for a treat once the other lots start disappearing.

ablerock

July 27th, 2012, 07:38 AM

Not a problem! One of the more relaxing parts to my day. It been nothing less than amazing to watch this spring up from an old parking lot into a whole neighborhood setting in under 12 months. Hopefully this has set the bar for future developments to recognize that all components need to be considered when building a engaging urban form. If it has, then we are in for a treat once the other lots start disappearing.

BW do you have any idea when the YMCA will start to go up? Is that more than a year away?

bwbeaver

July 28th, 2012, 07:45 AM

BW do you have any idea when the YMCA will start to go up? Is that more than a year away?

Yes. The YMCA is anticipating ground breaking summer of 2013. I personally cannot wait for it to finish construction and have a brand new facility to choose from downtown. Might even give a little motivation to workout! Ha.

ablerock

July 28th, 2012, 08:08 PM

Yes. The YMCA is anticipating ground breaking summer of 2013. I personally cannot wait for it to finish construction and have a brand new facility to choose from downtown. Might even give a little motivation to workout! Ha.

Thanks! I agree, it's going to be sweet.

And congrats on the strong demand for apartments!

ablerock

August 2nd, 2012, 03:54 PM

bwbeaver,

How many total apartments will CityWay have? The original number was 320, but the IBJ article about strong demand says 250. Just curious.

bwbeaver

August 10th, 2012, 01:46 PM

As of right now 250 apartments are being constructed in the first phase. There are plans for a "Phase 2", but it is unknown what exactly will be part of that. It certainly will be interesting to see what happens further down the road. IMO, CityWay's overwhelming demand shows there can be a lot of potential in the area. Hopefully it will be the catalyst to more infill connecting with the other neighborhoods.

Here are some more pictures. The built environment is really changing as the finishing touches go in. Next time I hope to venture around to the other construction sites downtown. A large amount has changed all around the city in the last month. Very exciting.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7111/7752209034_3217749042_b.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8426/7752208616_ebe52a17fb_b.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8430/7752208372_6c336d2e02_b.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8429/7752208138_1de4d35b77_b.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8435/7752207562_247445c2b2_b.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8438/7752207192_0fa35ede92_b.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8283/7752206820_44ee84129d_b.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8291/7752203342_105476ab7b_b.jpg

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7266/7752202922_527f424127_b.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8298/7752201980_b635e9c455_b.jpg

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7115/7752201474_fd444223f3_b.jpg

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7249/7752200822_34bd5a254a_b.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8308/7752200196_0b30a3ff1f_b.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8429/7752198608_e6365171aa_b.jpg

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7254/7752197844_5f3ce0ca51_b.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8305/7752196948_10ea154cc5_b.jpg

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7246/7752196274_5d916414ff_b.jpg

unvrsty07

August 10th, 2012, 05:54 PM

Wow! This is definitely a great project for the city! All the buildings and the area look fantastic. Thank you for the pictures and updates!!

moochie

August 10th, 2012, 07:32 PM

Bwbeaver, do you have any inside info on when South st. may reopen? From your pics it looks nearly complete.. It sure is making my life hell...

bwbeaver

August 10th, 2012, 09:17 PM

Bwbeaver, do you have any inside info on when South st. may reopen? From your pics it looks nearly complete.. It sure is making my life hell...

I don't have a firm date on when they are set to reopen South St., but the DPW has been on or ahead of schedule. The Residence's are to have the first residents moving in on October 1st and it must be completed before for the buildings may be occupied. Hopefully, mid-September if not before we will see South open back up. It certainly has made commuting more difficult, and keeping dirt out of every crevice. The end result will be well worth it. I didn't get a picture of the railroad underpass, but they have started reinforcing the walls to start the refurbishing of the South Street and Delaware Street underpasses.

k2h

August 11th, 2012, 03:59 AM

Were there existing electrical utilty poles that were buried as part of this project? I seem to recall there were overhead electrical utilities along South Street, no?

Thanks for sharing photos.

GarfieldPark

August 13th, 2012, 04:17 AM

^^ In looking back at the pictures earlier in this thread - there definitely were large electrical utility poles and wires along the north side of South Street. There were large poles with wires also along Delaware Street - although they were on the west side of the street. They may still be there. Its hard to tell from the pictures. The ones along the north side of South Street are definitely gone though.

thehoss257

August 13th, 2012, 06:00 AM

GarfieldPark

September 20th, 2012, 07:01 PM

Here'a a link to a story in the New York Times about the CityWay project:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/19/realestate/commercial/in-indianapoliss-cityway-eli-lilly-gains-a-neighborhood.html?_r=2pagewanted=all&adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1348079267-Ats2A4PZNeN6NcT53UF4rQ

GarfieldPark

September 20th, 2012, 07:03 PM

South Street between Pennsylvania and East Street has re-opened. There are still a few restrictions in a few areas - but you can get through. Delaware is also open to traffic and has the new medians installed which divide the north bound lanes from the new south bound lane. Its steadily coming together and looking pretty good.

cwilson758

September 21st, 2012, 03:14 PM

moochie

September 21st, 2012, 03:54 PM

I'm pretty excited about this project - glad to see the streets re-opened. The foot traffic in the once-dead section will be great.

Initially there was a proposal in the renders to turn the old towing yard into a tree-lined green space - is that still happening?

The soil there is a bit contaminated, and paying to clean it up has been the major hurdle the owners have had to overcome in selling the property for redevelopment. The owners will sell to anyone for any type of development really. I think the greenspace was just conceptual, never part of any serious proposal. For now, it'll remain a pay parking lot until the right offer comes through.

I doubt we'll see any movement on the site for at least a couple years. and yes, I do have "insider information" on this.

Indy'd

September 24th, 2012, 02:30 PM

Somewhat sad that the median of South wasn't planted, but the brick looks nice. Could use some vertical elements though!

GarfieldPark

October 21st, 2012, 07:33 AM

http://www.indystar.com/article/20121020/BUSINESS/210200342/City-s-98M-investment-Downtown-development-appears-paying-off?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|IndyStar.com

City's $98M investment in Downtown development appears to be paying off

Nine weddings already are planned there, apartments are leasing almost as fast as they can be built, and the hotel aims to pre-book 70 percent of its first-year revenue before opening in January.

That's welcome news for CityWay, a $155 million Downtown development, and a relief to Mayor Greg Ballard and Indianapolis' taxpayers, who are on the hook for a $98 million loan to the project.

• INTERACTIVE Map: Explore Downtown's CityWay development.

The mix of 250 apartments, a 209-room hotel and 10 restaurants and shops at South and Delaware streets was a gamble by city officials that seems from early measures to be on track to pay off.

"We're on pace with our expectations in all regards," said Scott Travis, senior vice president of development at Buckingham Cos., the project's Indianapolis developer.

Travis pulled on a hardhat last week and walked the old Eli Lilly and Co. parking lot now transformed into a densely built-up urban block that's under construction and won't be finished until next summer. It has alleys, skywalks, apartments abutting parking garages, and a hotel topped by a glass-walled boardroom with skyline views.

The instant urban feel was just what Buckingham and its Colorado-based architect want. The project aims to serve the nearby workforces of Lilly, Anthem Insurance and Farm Bureau Insurance and link their semi-isolated campuses with the core of Downtown.

City planners long sought, with limited success, to coax Downtown development around Lilly's corporate campus and its thousands of employees. It took Lilly freeing up its own land, Buckingham getting on board as developer and the Ballard administration's financial backing to birth CityWay.