THE SHEBEEN *General Discussion*

[De Snor]

I tought we didn't have a skybar here , so I start one up :)

When you have a better name for this section let me know and I'll change it !

Enjoy yourselves

[SYDNEY]

I tought we didn't have a skybar here , so I start one up :)

When you have a better name for this section let me know and I'll change it !

Enjoy yourselves

Thanks Grumpy - I didn't think of this one ;) I don't know whether or not you got my pm but I will ask you here. As promised, I have started clearing the the threads and consolidatiing them into topics:

Please remove (delete) the following threads, there will be more to follow -

NEWTOWNS NEW SCI-BONO BUILDING
JOZI - CARLTON CENTRE, A PHOENIX RISES
THE FRANKLIN - JOHANNESBURG
WHAT IS NEEDED TO SUSTAIN A SKYSCRAPER BOOM IN SA
HOW BIG IS JO'BURG
GAUTRAIN APPROVED
RICHARDS BAY - IDZ EXPANSION
IF I WERE MAYOR
DURBAN - PORT EXPANSION
SOUTH AFRICA - SURPRISE SURPRISE
WHERE ARE THE DURBAN SKYSCRAPER PICS
SOUTH AFRICA'S DISNEY WORLD
CAPE TOWN - NEW SOCCER STADIUM
BRIDGES AND ROADS
CAPE TOWN VS VANCOUVER
STUPID BUT MAYBE INTERESTING HILBBROW TOWER
FREE STATE IS NOW COMING TO THE MAP
QUESTION ABOUT URBAN DEVELOPMENT IN CAPE TOWN
CAPE TOWN - 3D PERSPECTIVE
CAPE TOWN - CAMP'S BAY 15/16 MAY

A few more, thanks Stephan ;)

Skyscraper for South African???
OK this is the last thread like this I promise.. but Help please!
Politics 2004 (Matric Essay>>Diversity) need help!
SA's Art Gallery City
Cape Town - hovercraft ferry service planned
The Vaal, Vaal Tiangle
Cape Town - Downtown the choice for HQ
Johannesburg - Boost for Business Nodes
Cape Town 1997-98
ANC mulls over foreign land ownership
R100 000 - for just a parking bay
Cape Town - exciting news ;)
Sub Folders
City holds thumbs for bigger tax-break zone
It Is Coming ....
got any pics of manenberg? + a question
South Africa - bravo !!

I think that this will free up loads of space and we should be able to keep track of what is happenning now :

Thanks again Stephan

[joburg]

When you have a better name for this section let me know and I'll change it


You should call the Skybar the Shebeen... Shebeen is a local term for da pub! :)

[De Snor]

Sydney , I hope I didn't forget any ;)

[SYDNEY]

Sydney , I hope I didn't forget any ;)

Thanks Stephan - you are a star ! Could you also remove the following threads please = I am hoping to have everything finished by month end and then we will be able to keep the threads alive:

Skyscraper for South African???
OK this is the last thread like this I promise.. but Help please!
Politics 2004 (Matric Essay>>Diversity) need help!
SA's Art Gallery City
Cape Town - hovercraft ferry service planned
The Vaal, Vaal Tiangle
Cape Town - Downtown the choice for HQ
Johannesburg - Boost for Business Nodes
Cape Town 1997-98
ANC mulls over foreign land ownership
R100 000 - for just a parking bay
Cape Town - exciting news
Sub Folders
City holds thumbs for bigger tax-break zone
It Is Coming ....
got any pics of manenberg? + a question
South Africa - bravo !!
Johannesburg from space
Cape Town - Mouille Point
Newtown Pictures!
Pretoria - Pan African Parliament

Thanks Stephan

[SYDNEY]

Cape Town on 'high alert'
06/08/2004 10:03 - (SA)

Cape Town - Hundreds of city workers are on Friday morning mopping up after torrential rain that caused severe flooding across the Cape Town metropole.

Thursday's rains, which came amid a dry spell and water restrictions for the city, saw certain roads become virtually impassable, with cars and other normally stationary objects such as tables literally floating as the rain came down in buckets.

"Showers are predicted today (Friday) and another cold front is expected to approach by tomorrow (Saturday) evening," said city disaster management co-ordinator, Geoff Laskey. The city was thus on a "high level of alert".

Laskey said the city, in conjunction with NGO's such as the South African Red Cross and the Salvation Army, had fed an estimated 13 000 people on Thursday evening.

Laskey said the worst hit areas include Masiphumelele near Kommetjie, Brown's Farm, Langa, Nyanga, Gugulethu and Wallacedene.

He said no fatalities or injuries had been reported.

Road workers are currently clearing the streets of debris, with Ou Kaapseweg closed because of rockfalls.

He said the city's health department was assessing the health needs of the affected communities and monitoring pools of water that might become stagnant and possibly become a health threat.

Laskey appealed to the public to help donate food, clothing and blankets.

The final figures and damage caused by the downpour was being collated, with Laskey saying damage was conservatively estimated to run into "hundreds of thousands" of rands.

Link for pictures:

http://www.news24.com/News24v2/ContentDisplay/galleryFrame/?path=http://galleries.news24.com/2004/News/CTfloods2/

[joburg]

I was planning to go to the mother city this weekend, but it seems just as well it didn't work out because I would be experiencing a Cape Winter... *brollie and boots out*

Jozi is warm, sunny and fuzzy today! :)

[De Snor]

Skyscraper for South African???
OK this is the last thread like this I promise.. but Help please!
Politics 2004 (Matric Essay>>Diversity) need help!
SA's Art Gallery City
Cape Town - hovercraft ferry service planned
The Vaal, Vaal Tiangle
Cape Town - Downtown the choice for HQ
Johannesburg - Boost for Business Nodes
Cape Town 1997-98
ANC mulls over foreign land ownership
R100 000 - for just a parking bay
Cape Town - exciting news
Sub Folders
City holds thumbs for bigger tax-break zone
It Is Coming ....
got any pics of manenberg? + a question
South Africa - bravo !!
Johannesburg from space
Cape Town - Mouille Point
Newtown Pictures!
Pretoria - Pan African Parliament




All threads have been deleted ;)

[Caisson Boy]

Can somebody please delete postings #21 and #22 on the Infrastructure Thread. Thank you.

[De Snor]

^^ done ;)

[Pule]

Govt pledges R200m to spatial development

August 23, 2004
By Candace Freeman

NORTH West Premier Ednah Molewa has pledged R200-million towards Spatial Development Initiatives (SDIs) in the province in an effort to revive the provincial economy.

The premier made the pledge at the weekend during a meeting with members of the Black Business Executive Circle, an affiliate of the Business Unity South Africa (BUSA).

The SDIs - namely the Mafikeng Industrial Development Zone Company and the Mafikeng Industrial Zone - are to receive R200-million from the government and raise another R200-million from investors.

"Investment opportunities that are associated with the Mafikeng Industrial Development Zone (MIDZ) would total about R7-billion," Molewa said.

Platinum Pride, aimed at fast tracking sustainable growth based on sound investment, skills development and good governance, was highlighted by the premier as one of the flagship projects being undertaken.

"In support of government's plans to further develop the economy of the city and the province, about R90-million has been committed to kick start Platinum Pride, while R70-million has already been secured for the next two years," she said.

Invest North West, the province's investment wing, is working on a number of projects that will help exploit the economic potential of the province and open investment opportunities for business.


Opportunities
Invest North West coordinates and facilitates investments in the province and has successfully packaged opportunities suitable for potential investors.
"Our main development strategy is known as North West 2014 and will serve as the operational pillars for achieving our objectives which include agriculture and rural development, mining and energy, tourism, construction and training and skills development," Molewa said.

Mining is the biggest contributor to the province's Gross Domestic Product, but the premier said the main challenge was to diversify the economy.

"The other challenge is to position our women and youth to participate in mining. We do not have enough BEE companies to take the opportunities made available by the Mining Charter," Molewa said. "As government we have realised that acting alone, we will not be able to make desirable impact within the set time frames. We regard the process of engagement and creation of partnership in development as extremely important."
Source: Buanews

[De Snor]

It is so silent here , what's up guys ?

[Pule]

It is so silent here , what's up guys ?

Me, I'm kinda busy @ work but will post as I get the info...

[Pule]

August 30, 2004
By Thomas Thale

THE City of Johannesburg on Thursday adopted a bold, new City Safety Strategy, which opens the way for the Johannesburg Metro Police Department (JMPD) to share resources and undertake joint operations with the South African Police Services (SAPS) in co-ordinated crime-fighting activities.

The new strategy is premised on the Joburg 2030 economic development plan, which identifies rampant crime and skills shortage as major impediments to investment in the city. The safety strategy aims to combat crime which adversely affects investment.

Once implemented, the strategy will bring together the South African Police Service (SAPS), the Gauteng Department of Community Safety, the Central Joburg Partnership, Inner City Business Forum, various city departments and entities and, of course, the Johannesburg Metropolitan Police Department (JMPD) in a concerted effort to bring down crime levels in the city. The strategy anticipates that SAPS and JMPD personnel will be partnered to police "superzones" which cover areas where investment is planned.

The strategy was drawn up by the City's Economic Development Unit in conjunction with other role players, including the Johannesburg Metropolitan Police (JMPD), the South African Police Service (SAPS) and city entities.

The strategy identifies armed robbery as a major scare for investors and the most direct reason for the perception that living in Johannesburg carries a high crime risk.

As part of its action plan, the strategy envisages gun-free zones in parts of the city and surveillance patrols and CCTV monitors. The city will also prevail on cellphone companies to join in the fight against armed robbery by improving the blocking and tracing of calls. Liquor-related violent crime will also get special attention, with the council being "more pro-active in the liquor licensing process and having dedicated capacity".

The strategy - which involves four working groups, focussing on armed robbery, reclaiming the streets, the sharing of information and statistics and institutional arrangements - will also see strict enforcement of by-law legislation.

Sizakele Nkosi, the councillor responsible for Public Safety in the city, will be responsible for implementing the strategy and a team set up by the city's Economic Development Unit will oversee it.

[HirakataShi]

I just thought you guys should know, WASP is up to his South Africa-bashing again.

http://skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=2134379&postcount=87

[clive330]

Hmm - I was the one that said the country was becoming very African - but I meant it as a compliment - that SA had picked the best of British law, politics and culture and added African thinking (such as ubuntu).

bastard.

[SYDNEY]

He doesn't warrant a response - he must be one of the most stupid people to walk this planet (or should I say crawl). He likes to provoke and is dis-liked by most people on this forum. Don't even respond to him, we all know the truth and he just shows how ignorant he is and he is very upset that South Africa has not deteriorated into a hell-hole and civil war.

Ignore him for the irritating little wasp that IT is.

[De Snor]

I've deleted his post :naughty:

He should rename himself into 'To Be Ignored" :)

[Pule]

I've deleted his post :naughty:

He should rename himself into 'To Be Ignored" :)

Hy's kak vol...bustard!!!

[hsark]

yo every body is speaking hardcore arikaans, je ne vous comprends pas :P

[MyJoburg]

Right-wing apartheid believers are people I could never get along with. The broederbond is also a pathetic cause, and I am completely against it.

But Afrikaners as a whole are great people, as are the British South Africans, and traditional, native-to's.

[clive330]

Anyone have some good pics of cool SA buildings? For World Forums/Rate Our Talls/Other/Europe-Africa. There is only one SA building in there an it didnt have rave reviews.

Dont put on anything really crap or ugly!

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/forumdisplay.php?f=421&page=1&sort=lastpost&order=&pp=40&daysprune=-1

[joburg]

The posts seems to have already been deleted. Nonetheless, I agree 100% with what Gandalf said. He irritates me intensely, and I haven't even met him. lol... :)

[joburg]

Hey boys.... (since I don't think we have any girls on here!)

The Block started today... anyone watching it?

I'm supporting Angus & Tamara so far, mainly because I think Angus is GORG! :D

But we shall have to see how it all pans out. Should be a great show to watch. :)

[joburg]

Hmm... Ok no one likes the block then... ;)

How about Sex & the City?? It finished today! FOR EVER!! :(

Snot en Trane I tell you...

I am so Charlotte - *sniff* *sniff*

No seriously I adored that show. Anyone else loved it?

[SYDNEY]

Hmm... Ok no one likes the block then... ;)

How about Sex & the City?? It finished today! FOR EVER!! :(

Snot en Trane I tell you...

I am so Charlotte - *sniff* *sniff*

No seriously I adored that show. Anyone else loved it?

I am definitely Samantha ;) I love the series (about the only American production I have ever enjoyed) ... as you all know, I stopped watching tv about a year ago (no prize for guessing why) but my local dvd outlet stocks the series and I think that I am the only one that rents them ... oh well .. it is gr8 stuff.

I have updated the Cape Town New Developments thread with more pics etc. and news in is that The Claridges Hotel (in Green Point) has changed it's name to Cape Royale and the design has also changed - it is very "Parisian" now - I can't find a web site yet but I will keep looking. The 7/11 on the corner (the little slum where all the scum hang out) will be demolished for The Claridges aka Cape Royale - hallelujah, that just about cleans Green Point up. :cheers:

[Pule]

Guys, I own a property in Roodeport West and bought it in march for a price of R145 000.00 but currently I got tenants residing in it. On a monday I went to check how things are going and have found out that they have installed the Intercom, Electronic security gate and the security is still there, children's play ground and they are currently constructing a swimming pool. I asked my tenant as to why doesn't he buy a unit the same complex and he told me that they were going for more than R200 000.00 and my curiosity led me to go ask one of my lady friends who is also owning property there and she told me that after they installed the intercom and the security gate the prices went to approx. R220 000/unit. I called the administartors yesterday and the said that Our units cost more than R250 000.00 but not sure about the exact amount as my agency will know the exact price. The following are changes that happened since I bought the unit, 2 bedroom town house

1. Remote controlled security gate.
2. Intercom.
3. Gardening chairs.
4. Exterior deco lights on the drive way.
5. Children's play ground.
6. Swimming pool.

[MyJoburg]

Not to change the topic and take it from you, Pule, but I just thought I'd say:

'Since I'm still visiting Canada, I thought you guys would be interested to know that in a North American business magazine, a large chart shows that house/property values are on the rise, and in this order (i remembered the top 3) of how much property values are going up:

1. Hong Kong
2. SOUTH AFRICA! (yay, sniff sniff I miss you...but I'll be home soon!)
3. New Zealand

[Pule]

Not to change the topic and take it from you, Pule, but I just thought I'd say:

'Since I'm still visiting Canada, I thought you guys would be interested to know that in a North American business magazine, a large chart shows that house/property values are on the rise, and in this order (i remembered the top 3) of how much property values are going up:

1. Hong Kong
2. SOUTH AFRICA! (yay, sniff sniff I miss you...but I'll be home soon!)
3. New Zealand

I'm planning to buy another Townhouse and rent it for now. I wish I had money to buy a house at the moment as it will be difficult for us to afford them as time goes on.

[SYDNEY]

This is about crime BUT positive ;)

Pretoria - Most violent crimes, except for aggravated robbery, decreased in the past two financial years, said national police commissioner Jackie Selebi on Monday.

Murder dropped by 9.9%, attempted murder by 17.8%, serious assault by 4.3%, common assault by 2.6% and common robbery by 7.8%, he told reporters in Pretoria.

While aggravated robbery showed an increase of 3.2% in the 2003/'04 financial year compared to the previous one, this category experienced an 11.1% drop in the first three months of 2004, Selebi said.

He pointed out that not all kinds of aggravated robbery increased in the period under review.

The hijacking of cars dropped by 8%, hijacking of trucks by 10.5%, cash-in-transit robberies by 49.7%, and bank robberies by 58.3%.

Street robberies and muggings were largely to blame for the rise in aggravated robbery.

"We will need to do more in... crime prevention to ensure that we decrease even this category," said the commissioner.

Regarding a decrease of 1.4% in reported rape cases, Selebi said the figure was too marginal to indicate a success. More had to be done to address this category of crime.

Unveiling the SA Police Service's annual report, Selebi said property-related crimes were also on the decrease.

Housebreaking at business premises dropped by 14.4%, theft of motor vehicles and theft out of motor vehicles by 14%, stock theft by 13.4%, residential housebreaking by 8.3%, car theft by 7.3%, and other theft by 4.2%.

On the rise, however, were drug-related crimes - up by 14.2%, the illegal possession of firearms (4.2%), shoplifting (2.1%) and driving under the influence of alcohol or drugs (10.1%).

Increases in crimes related to drugs, illegal firearm possession and driving under the influence should be seen as a positive development, as it indicated police had been able to arrest more culprits, Selebi said.

The statistics overall, he said, show that police achieved "significant successes towards a reduction of crime, particularly in the categories of contact crimes and property-related crimes".

[clive330]

I see that SA is vying for a permanent place on the UN security council. Is this widely known in SA? Do people care / think SA has a prayer?

Not to sound negative, but I think there is absolutely no chance whatsoever. ANy comments? Current members are all huge, influential, global nuclear powers with powerful militaries (although some arent as powerful as they used to be...).

On top of that, I presume there would have to be consensus amongst the existing members on new entrants. Actually the only way I see that happening for SA is if its considered small enough to not rock the boat...

[SYDNEY]

I see that SA is vying for a permanent place on the UN security council. Is this widely known in SA? Do people care / think SA has a prayer?

Not to sound negative, but I think there is absolutely no chance whatsoever. ANy comments? Current members are all huge, influential, global nuclear powers with powerful militaries (although some arent as powerful as they used to be...).

On top of that, I presume there would have to be consensus amongst the existing members on new entrants. Actually the only way I see that happening for SA is if its considered small enough to not rock the boat...

It is all over the papers here and I think that it is gr8 that we try to gain a foot-hold. South Africa is the home of The Pan African Parliament, by far the most powerful nation in Africa and there should be a representative from Africa on the security council. Everybody knows that The UN is not working and things have to change .. this is a good start.

At this moment in time the United Nations is The United States and they are getting away with murder.

[HirakataShi]

Pan African Parliament, bah! Do Joburg/Pretoria residents really want to see military rulers/autocrats taking their wives shopping on Saturdays, while their people back home are poor and unemployed? I think the Pan African Parliament should have been located in a more representative country - like Kenya.

[SYDNEY]

Johannesburg -

A race between Africa's three regional pillars - Nigeria, South Africa and Egypt - for a permanent seat on the United Nations Security Council is gathering pace, though the top body has yet to formally invite Africa to its table.

All three countries have come forward to say they are keen to join Britain, China, France, the United States and Russia as members of a revamped Security Council, the top decision-making body of the 191-member United Nations.

"Africa, whose issues occupy a substantial part of the Security Council's time, ought to be accorded priority consideration for permanent membership and Nigeria, I strongly believe, is a well qualified candidate," Nigerian President Olusegun Obasanjo told the UN General Assembly last week.

Currently, Britain, China France, Russia and the United States have veto-wielding power while 10 other nations are elected as non-permanent members in the Security Council for two-year terms each.

Nigeria, the biggest contributor of peacekeeping troops in Africa, is squaring off with South Africa, the continent's economic giant, and Egypt, a strong US ally and strategic player in the Middle East.

Proclaiming that it was ready to "serve the people of Africa and the people of the world," South Africa maintains that there should be two seats for Africa on the Security Council.

For its part, Egypt is proposing a rotation "with our African brothers" to fill the "additional seats" to be allocated to the continent, Foreign Minister Ahmed Abul Gheit said.

Senegal's President Abdoulaye Wade joined in the debate, saying that Africa should have two permanent seats and two other non-permanent seats in a new expanded Security Council.

Reform of the Security Council has the firm support of UN Secretary General Kofi Annan, who has asked a high-level panel to submit proposals in December.

While the diplomatic jostling is taking place in open view, there is much uncertainty as to how the changes will take place and whether the continent, which has long sought a Security Council seat, will remain united in that view during the race.

"It remains to be seen whether Nigeria and Egypt - if South Africa emerges as the principal contender - will actually still continue to mobilise support for an African seat if that actually occurs, " says Greg Mills, director of the South African Institute for International Affairs.

Beyond the prestige of membership in the power club, there has been little debate about the benefits that Africa may gain from the representation, he says.

"With permanent membership comes not only the profile that these African countries desire, but also a range of responsibilities... not least in terms of UN peacekeeping role," says Mills.

[Pule]

In the year 1994, the first democratic government was elected and the world recognised and apploaded SA for its democratic way of doing things.


Since the inception of SA into the international arena, the world is now looking at Africa from a different perspective. Africa is now recognised. Nelson Mandela stood out of all odds to critisize the US when they didn't want him to meet the leaders of Libya and Cuba and he went on to meet them. The world got a suprise when the great man managed to convince Gadaffi to release the suspects of Oklahoma, if I'm not mastaken, bombing to stand trial.

South Africa have gone out to stand for Africa and they are the driving force to AU, African Unity. South Africa is still fighting and standing up amongst all to make sure that Africa is well recognised and be included in the decision making of the world. South Africa deserve a place in the Security Council and they have a track record of proven themselves as the power house of Africa and a member of the G20.

[AJphx]

Mike Melville, the pilot of SpaceShipOne, and now the world's first private spaceship astronaut is originally from South Africa!

[SA BOY]

Good to hear that, Also Roger Federer world number 1 tennis star's mother is from South Africa and Roger Federer has a home in Knysna

[Pule]

TOURISM

Guys as I read though 2010 Tourism News that I posted today I thought that we can do something by telling people more about our country. We got things like Table Mountain, Craddle of human kind etc and we can use all this and others to influence people in visit and touring our country.

Jcl, you can post the sport related stuff, Gandalf tell them and us about Cape Town etc etc.

Please tell me what you think and if agreed please just create a TOUR SOUTH AFRICA thread.

[Caisson Boy]

Y'all should check out the pictures I posted on the London page of emporis.com. The night picture was taken from just across the street from my flat in Surrey Quays, London

www.emporis.com/en/il/im/?id=298278

The day picture I took from the park just next to my complex, about 7 minutes walk from my flat:

www.emporis.com/en/il/im//id=298285

Nice, isn't it?

[SA BOY]

sweet spot you live in. When I liven in London many many years ago Canary wharf was a joke and all the lights went out after 7pm

[clive330]

The writer of this article sounds scientifically trained and reasonably credible to me. What do you think? Its long and looks better on its original site so not posted here.

AFRICA ISN’T DYING OF AIDS (http://www.purewatergazette.net/africaisntdying.htm)

[Pule]

Decision to keep provincial capital in city has brought business and residents back to centre of old Bophuthatswana

Property Reporter

MAFIKENG, once a ghost town, is now on the verge of a boom , particularly as far as residential and retail property is concerned.

The main reason for the turnaround is government's decision to keep the provincial government of North West in the city.

Peter O'Connor, principal of Jennie Smith Properties in Mafikeng, says that after the reincorporation of Bophuthatswana into SA proper, many companies in Mafikeng were downsized, which lead to retrenchments and people moving out of the area.

"The economy was in a slump, house prices went down 50% from what they were in Bophuthatswana," O'Connor says.

There was uncertainty as to whether Mafikeng would remain the provincial capital.

"That uncertainty has been cleared up and a lot of government departments have relocated back to Mafikeng," he says.

This has increased the demand for residential and office accommodation.

"We haven't seen much in the way of residential development since 1994.

"The relocation of companies back to Mafikeng happened over a period of one-and-a-half to two years and the residential property market has not been able to cope with the demand.

"Only recently have the returns on residential property in Mafikeng been high enough to interest developers in building new houses," says O'Connor.

Mafikeng is surrounded by tribal and Parks Board land, making expansion difficult.

"There is a shortage of municipal land. The municipality has the obligation to facilitate development, but they can't because they are running out of municipal land," he says.

Because of this house prices are "unbelievable" in Mafikeng. O'Connor says that in the past two years house prices have doubled in the middle-income bracket. A house that now fetches R500000-R600000 would have gone for R250000-R300000 two or three years ago.

Two years ago vacancies were high in the rental residential market. "Now you can't find residential rental accommodation for the love of money."

Rodger Groenewald, head of housing in the Mafikeng municipality's directorate of planning and development, says the submission of development applications for residential and business developments is "picking up".

Groenewald says there is a shortage of residential property in Mafikeng but the municipality is drawing up with a development plan for two different areas, one for commercial properties, the other residential.

"There are also plans to develop more government offices.

"There is huge demand for residential property," Groenewald says. "We do have land available but we don't as yet have a development plan because the directorate of planning and development of the Mafikeng municipality is working on a spatial development plan on how best to utilise the open spaces for residential and commercial uses."

There has also been a move to have Mafikeng declared an industrial development zone. "It is already in the pipeline, we are awaiting a declaration from national government," he says.

If Mafikeng were declared a development zone, the cargo load in Johannesburg would be reduced and the town could be used as a gateway to other African states such as Botswana, Namibia, Angola and Zambia, he says.

Groenewald says the municipality would like to see Mafikeng developed into a transport hub. He says the town has a "very big airport with a very long runway".

General business is picking up, he says, and a big shopping centre is to be built at a cost of about R140m.

Refurbishments are taking place at the 46846m² Mega City regional shopping complex .

JHI Real Estate, which manages Mega City together with Dijalo Properties, says one of the strongest features of the Mega City complex is its position within the government district, which includes judicial, provincial, national and local departments.

JHI says that it taps into this key driver by virtue of the fact that its East and West Gallery office towers link office workers directly to the centre.

It says that the towers include a number of businesses that strategically service the precinct in one way or another.

The towers' anchor office tenants include the public works and finance departments, as well as the provincial legislature.

The Mega City centre's tenants include fashion retailers such as Foschini, Markhams, Price and Pride, Pep, Jet, Topics, Milady's, Total Sports, Truworths, Woolworths and Edgars.

The group says the fact that the green light has been given for a new retail centre, signifies that Mafikeng is on the road to recovery and that investors have confidence in the area.

[Pule]

HOTEL STORY - BOOST FOR INVESTMENT IN SA HOSPITALITY INDUSTRY THROUGH STRONG RAND AND SOCCER WORLD CUP


While the South African hospitality industry has seen some slowing in growth over the past two to three years as a result of the strong rand, converse to that is the extremely positive effect the rand’s strength has had on international investment in hotels, comments Joop Demes, MD of Golding Hotel Investment Consultants, a member of the Pam Golding Property group.

The stability and maturing of the local economy has resulted in a marked increase in overseas investor confidence in regard to the hospitality industry. This has resulted in South Africa becoming one of the preferred destinations for international hotel operators and foreign investors in the industry, a trend which GHIC anticipate will prevail for years to come.

While the latest statistics from the De Loitte & Touche Hotel Benchmark Survey reflect this slight slowdown in growth, the overall picture is still positive, even when compared to a major competitor such as Australia, a country with a similar climate and which is geographically also a fair distance from Europe and America. While there’s a shift among visitors moving from 5 star to 4 star, and from 4 star to 3 star accommodation, this doesn’t necessarily mean less visitors, just that they are being financially more conservative in which option they choose.

Demes commented that coupled to the current upbeat status quo is the tremendous boost that the Soccer World Cup 2010 will give to the hospitality industry. This major event should not be underestimated in terms of the huge exposure it means for South Africa. If one tracks what occurred at other venues which have hosted this event it is apparent that the country and its key cities receives a massive increase in exposure not just during the event itself, but for many years in the build-up to it, and beyond.

Despite the strong rand, visitors who come out to South Africa are still extremely impressed at not only the vast scenic beauty of the country, but at its infrastructure, its variety, and its diversity of people and cultures. South Africa is still a relatively undiscovered destination, and the increased flow in visitors as a result of the Soccer World Cup will undoubtedly result in sustainable growth for some time after the event as well.

These opportunities have not gone unnoticed by key players in the overseas hospitality industry, a fact which is born out by a number of recent and current transactions. A major international hotel group, which is currently targeting South Africa – and Cape Town in particular – has indicated it is prepared to undertake a major lease in the Mother City for a 10 or 12 year period, which underlines their tremendous confidence in the SA hospitality industry and its sustainability into the future.

In addition to facilitating this major lease – for a 150 bedroom hotel in Cape Town - Golding Hotel Investment Consultants have also established a JV between a major European private investor and one of the largest existing 4 star hotels – also in Cape Town. Demes added that GHIC is also working on two further major hotel projects in the Cape Town area on behalf of local and international investors.

[kota16]

It may be of interest to South African forum posters that Malcolm Mackerras a political anylist in Canberra, Australia has predicted a landslide win to Kerry in the current US Presidential election. Though American polls have them neck and neck with Bush, this is a bold prediction by MacKerras who has a history of being spot on in his predictions. He teaches American politics at Canberra University and is considered no 1 anylist in Australia. Curiously, only 3 weeks after an election that endorsed the Howard Govt, 81% of Australians in polls have said they do not like Bush and would prefer Kerry as leader. I am not sure what the ramification are for South Africa, by having a First Lady in The White House who was educated athe University of Witwatersrand in Johannesburg. She seems a lot more worldly and intelligent than Laura Bush. It will certainly put the spotlight on South Africa.

[Pule]

It may be of interest to South African forum posters that Malcolm Mackerras a political anylist in Canberra, Australia has predicted a landslide win to Kerry in the current US Presidential election. Though American polls have them neck and neck with Bush, this is a bold prediction by MacKerras who has a history of being spot on in his predictions. He teaches American politics at Canberra University and is considered no 1 anylist in Australia. Curiously, only 3 weeks after an election that endorsed the Howard Govt, 81% of Australians in polls have said they do not like Bush and would prefer Kerry as leader. I am not sure what the ramification are for South Africa, by having a First Lady in The White House who was educated athe University of Witwatersrand in Johannesburg. She seems a lot more worldly and intelligent than Laura Bush. It will certainly put the spotlight on South Africa.

Even though I do not believe in Kerry, but I wish that he could win the Elections so that America won't be ruled by the same stupid president for the second term. The first lady was educated from the land of intelligency therefore will inject the intelligency into her husband's brains. As alwasy South Africa impacts the world posetively. :banana: :nocrook:

[clive330]

On a different vein:

I have been suprised at the extremely high prices of some of these new apartments. While its a good sign that some people are happy to pay R2.5m for a 2-bed flat in Durban*, I'd be suprised if thats within the pricerange of your average young professional classes who are you usual ideal apartment dwellers.

What will kick off a building boom is when there is widespread availability of decent affordable apartments - in the sub-million brackets. And if its some tiny box (under 70sqm) then i cant believe people will want to hand across more than a couple of hundred grand for it.

* especially as that will get you something nice and central in Sydney or Melbourne (with waterviews); and something not too awful in London.

[joburg]

Good point Clive. I think many of these people who will invest in Durban will either be investors or Vaalies wanting a holiday flat on the coast. Our holiday flat down on the South Coast @ Leisure Bay has already jumped in value from R300 000 in 2002 to R900 000 today, and Leisure Bay hasn't even been 'discovered!'

I'm afraid to say that I think young professionals who should ideally kick off a building boom are still being forced into the townhouses of the northern suburbs of Joburg, because this is still the cheapest alternative. There certainly is still a massive building boom going on up north, it's just that it's full of Tuscan and Georgian townhouses, Tuscan and Georgian office blocks, and Tuscan and Georgian shopping malls.

Originality and creativity seems to be beyond Joburgers... tsk tsk tsk.

Re the US election - I think Bush has won. Genaaaaaaaaaaade

[MyJoburg]

Bush has won. OMG what an ass..... I feel bad for the Iraqi people now...

Hey Guys, on the American news (internet) the top headline in the morning was 'Something Botswana can Do that USA isn't even capable of: Election Results Same Day' Go Africa!

Unfortunately it is Bush that is saying 'Go USA' and all HE cares about is oil and the 'safety' of his country. Get it in your head, USA: ''YOU ARE NOT IN DANGER. YOU ARE SAFE. GIVE IT UP"

Anyways, we can all go into mourning now. My American and Canadian friends are doing the same... I'l tell you that!

[clive330]

There certainly is still a massive building boom going on up north, it's just that it's full of Tuscan and Georgian townhouses, Tuscan and Georgian office blocks, and Tuscan and Georgian shopping malls.

Originality and creativity seems to be beyond Joburgers... tsk tsk tsk.


You are right that its not all that creative - but at least they are attractive styles of building IMO. Most SA suburbs built until the 90s had achingly boring house designs - basically a 1-storey regular brick box. No trimmings of any kind. (from Westville, Durban)
http://mysite.mweb.co.za/residents/adac/westville2.jpg

I think Melbourne suburbs are the most architecturally interesting of any city in the world. If you love architecture, this is wonderland.

Britain has gone the other way and seem to have legislated that no new house can be better looking than any in its street, forcing the ugliest housing boom on earth since their council flat boom in the 50s. The most fashionable style there is what appears to be lumpy uneven concete sprayed onto the brickwork.

[MyJoburg]

See those Durban houses you describe as 'boxes'? In North America, everyone's houses look like that! LOL!

[clive330]

Aussie House Designs are NEVER just boxes. These are some of the standard designs you can buy here (of literally hundreds of standard designs). Obviously you can design your own thing. Prices quoted below are building cost only and you would pay for any mods from these. Prices are very reasonable if consider that a small plot (sub-quarter acre) in a decent area will start from $400,000 and can be over a $million.

Small, cheap 4-bed, 210sqm, $129,000 R580,000 (http://www.realestate.com.au/cgi-bin/rsearch?a=o&ag=&s=vic&c=20187783&tm=1099526116&id=8000635&f=0&p=10&t=nhm&ty=&snf=rbs&cu=&fmt=&header=)
http://www.realestate.com.au/objects/props/0635/8000635mm1095598713.jpg

Cheap - midprice, 3-bed, 251sqm, $160,000, R720,000 (http://www.realestate.com.au/cgi-bin/rsearch?a=o&ag=&s=vic&c=20187783&tm=1099526116&id=8000683&f=40&p=10&t=nhm&ty=&snf=rbs&cu=&fmt=&header=)
http://www.realestate.com.au/objects/props/0683/8000683mm1099444159.jpg

Midrange 4-bed, 310 sqm, $196,000, R890,000 (http://www.realestate.com.au/cgi-bin/rsearch?a=o&ag=&s=vic&c=20187783&tm=1099526116&id=8000134&f=60&p=10&t=nhm&ty=&snf=rbs&cu=&fmt=&header=)

http://www.realestate.com.au/objects/props/0134/8000134mm1057792304.jpg

Upper midrange, 4-bed, 370sqm, $231,000, R1,045,000 (http://www.realestate.com.au/cgi-bin/rsearch?a=o&ag=&s=vic&c=20187783&tm=1099526116&id=8000116&f=70&p=10&t=nhm&ty=&snf=rbs&cu=&fmt=&header=)

http://www.realestate.com.au/objects/props/0116/8000116mm1035198444.jpg

Upper range, 4-bed, 370sqm, $317,000, R1.45m (http://www.realestate.com.au/cgi-bin/rsearch?a=o&ag=&s=vic&c=20187783&tm=1099526116&id=8000113&f=80&p=10&t=nhm&ty=&snf=rbs&cu=&fmt=&header=)

http://www.realestate.com.au/objects/props/0113/8000113mm1035195655.jpg

[Pule]

Eccleston in gear for Cape Town F1

04/11/2004 07:37
South Africa will be rejoining the Formula One Grand Prix circuit, SABC radio news reported on Wednesday.

Formula One boss Bernie Eccleston, throwing his weight behind a South African bid to join the prestige racing circuit, said it was not a question of "if" but only "when". He would visit South Africa soon to secure a race.

Ecclestone said the South African Grand Prix would be hosted by Cape Town within the next three years. Plans were well advanced and the government might be involved.

A South African consortium announced plans in August to join the Formula One circuit in 2007, saying a race would boost the country's economy by more than a billion rand a year, SABC reported.

[SYDNEY]

South Africa's house prices surged by a nominal 34,5% year-on-year in the third quarter of 2004, but the rally seen since 2000 is not a bubble likely to burst, banking group Absa said yesterday.

The bank, which has about a third of the country's home loan market, said the residential property market was still rising and would not collapse without an unexpected shock from factors like the exchange rate or global oil prices.

But it did say the strong growth seen over the past nine months was unlikely to continue unabated.

House prices climbed by a nominal 17,4% in 2000, 14,1% in 2001, 15,1% in 2002, 21,5% in 2003 and 31,6% in the first three quarters of 2004, it said.

"With interest rates currently near their bottom turning point, stable rates and higher future rates combined with still rising house prices, will result in higher mortgage repayments," Absa said in a research note.

"This will have a negative effect on the affordability of housing, which will eventually lead to lower growth in house prices."

South Africa's central bank has cut its key repo rate by six percentage points since the middle of 2003, driving commercial lending rates to 24-year lows.

Absa said key ratios, such as house prices to income, mortgage repayment to income and the price difference between new and existing houses were still not at levels reached during the property boom of the early 1980's, Absa said.

In addition, a wide range of factors were supporting the market which were absent at that time.

"In the light of these indicators and supporting factors, the South African residential property market is considered to be in a strong rising phase, rather than experiencing bubble conditions," it said. – Reuters.

[Justin]

SA man still desperately seeking Croatian dream girl
October 22, 2004

By Lee Rondganger

JOHANNESBURG: Two weeks ago, Johannesburg property developer Keith van der Spuy was an ordinary person leading an ordinary life.

Today, he is known as one of the world's most hopeless romantics - all because he travelled halfway across the world to find a girl he has never spoken to.

The lovestruck South African, head of the water polo association in SA, said his love story began when he went in search of a mystery woman he briefly met on two occasions while he was in Croatia in September.

He had gone to Croatia to play in a water polo tournament and never expected to fall in love, he says.

"It happened when the team decided to go on a ferry ride to tour the city. On the ferry I saw this very pretty woman who was reading a book by Ayn Rand but could not keep her eyes off me," said Van der Spuy in an interview from Croatia.

He said he tried to talk to her but was stopped by his friends.

He also noticed she was with "a very large man". "I was not scared of the man hitting me, I was more scared he might eat me," Van der Spuy quipped.

When the journey came to an end, the woman left with her partner but in a rare twist of fate, he saw her again at a popular nightclub five days later.

"I could not believe it, there she was again. She smiled at me but turned to the same guy she was with on the ferry. This is a very big club and I did not see her again."

He returned to Johannesburg, where he was robbed and nearly hijacked outside his home. He said this was a turning point.

"I woke up the next morning and realised I could have died. There were so many things I had not done with my life and right there and then I decided I was going to track this woman down," he said.

He knows she might be married but he needs to meet her and find out for himself.

On October 5, he boarded a flight for Croatia. When he arrived, he decided to take out an advertisement in a newspaper but ended up telling a reporter his story.

After it was printed, "hundreds" of media organisations began bombarding him with calls.

He has appeared on the BBC 5 radio show, a Croatian television chat show and had numerous stories printed about him all over the world.

"It's ridiculous, the woman would be mad to come forward amid this whole media circus. It has actually ruined my chances of meeting her," he said.

However, he is not giving up.

"I want the dust to settle and then I will return," he said.

[SYDNEY]

^^^^ My word - if only we could all find love like that .... ooooh on second thought, maybe it is a case of fatal attraction ;)

[SYDNEY]

Eccleston in gear for Cape Town F1

04/11/2004 07:37
South Africa will be rejoining the Formula One Grand Prix circuit, SABC radio news reported on Wednesday.

Formula One boss Bernie Eccleston, throwing his weight behind a South African bid to join the prestige racing circuit, said it was not a question of "if" but only "when". He would visit South Africa soon to secure a race.

Ecclestone said the South African Grand Prix would be hosted by Cape Town within the next three years. Plans were well advanced and the government might be involved.

A South African consortium announced plans in August to join the Formula One circuit in 2007, saying a race would boost the country's economy by more than a billion rand a year, SABC reported.

Vrrroooooom Vrrrooooom - bring it on. I also heard that they are going to use the same guy that designed the Shanghai Grand Prix to design Cape Town's - thank heavens !

[SYDNEY]

Time out in Jozi:

JOHANNESBURG has followed in the footsteps of Cape Town and other top tourist destinations around the world with its very own annual Time Out guide for tourists.

The full colour, glossy, A4 format magazine, Time Out Johannesburg guide, will provide visitors and locals with a comprehensive guide to the very best of Johannesburg's attractions, accommodation, theatres, clubs and cultural precincts.

"Our team of contributors has captured the vibrant metropolis of Newtown, through to the boutique-lined streets of Sandton. The guide also incorporates information on Pretoria and trips from Johannesburg to the Kruger National Park, Free State, Magaliesberg and Sun City," says editor Sam Woulidge.

Written in an edgy and honest style, the magazine guides have become well known around the world and have been published for top tourist destinations such as London, Paris and Athens.

"As visitors flock to South Africa, there is a distinct call from the international and local market for a comprehensive guide to one of Africa's greatest cities," said Bridget McCarney, managing director of the guide's publisher, New Media Publishing.

She added that close to half of Gauteng's visitors are from Europe and America where Time Out is already a recognised, established and trusted brand. "The Time Out Johannesburg guide will therefore serve as a leading source of tourist and entertainment information."

The Time Out Johannesburg guide will also help promote Johannesburg to visitors before they arrive here, says Terry Tselane, CEO of the Gauteng Tourism Authority.

"Johannesburg's wealth is not only in its gold, but in its people. Our unique cultural and social legacy is evidenced in our many excellent museums, theatres, galleries, cultural precincts and craft markets. We have a rhythm, movement and style of our own and the guide will help us share this with the rest of South Africa and overseas visitors. "

The Time Out Johannesburg guide retails at R29,95 at bookstores and all traditional outlets such as airport departure centres, selected hotels, delis, wine shops and tourism offices.

[SYDNEY]

The holiday season is fast approaching and the celebs are already out and about in Cape Town.

The latest international face to party in the city is supermodel Tyra Banks.

At the weekend the American beauty was seen at trendy Cape Town night spot The Ivory Room.

The 31-year-old model is staying at the Radisson Hotel.

Banks, who made history as the first black model to be signed by a cosmetic company, is understood to be here for a modelling shoot and a show.

Banks arrived at The Ivory Room sporting bright red shoulder-length hair, jeans, flat sandals and a short leather jacket.

With an entourage of local models, makeup artists, stylists and friends, Banks stepped into the club around midnight on Friday and left at 3am.

Although Banks did not go unnoticed, most local clubbers were more interested in the music and left her alone.

The Ivory Room manager Anje Kruger said: "We were privileged to have her there. I think she was having a good time as she was as beautiful as ever."

Banks had apparently also visited the Jo'burg Bar in Long Street.

[Pule]

Vrrroooooom Vrrrooooom - bring it on. I also heard that they are going to use the same guy that designed the Shanghai Grand Prix to design Cape Town's - thank heavens !

That will be great Gandalf. Who is the designer and is he coming from?

Check the following article from yesterday's Sunday Times.

Figures add up, insist Cape F1 backers

DAVID ISAACSON

CAPE Town’s Formula One hopefuls say they have billions of reasons why they deserve the government’s blessing, including nearly R1-billion in cold cash.

But David Gant, SA Grand Prix Bid Company CEO, says even that kind of money is a drop in the ocean compared with the financial benefits of top-flight motor-racing.

The company needs government approval and funding to seal a seven-year deal, starting in 2007, with Bernie Ecclestone’s Formula One Management.

Their proposal is that national, provincial and local governments buy a joint 20% stake — about R100-million — in the envisaged public-private partnership, which would build a track near the Mother City airport. Then, it seems, they need only sit back and wait for the money to roll in.

Apart from dividends, government would also get income tax and VAT from the company, which Gant estimates would total almost R1-billion over the seven years.

“Our first round of talks with all three levels of government indicated political will and the potential of real financial commitment,” said Gant, adding they had already secured about R200-million in capital from the private sector.

“However, our attempts at engaging in a second round of talks [with government] have not been very successful.”

Each Grand Prix would bring in R1-billion annually through tourism. Indirect financial spin-offs include creating thousands of jobs and generating
R1.8-billion in industrial property development near the track, he said.

While Gant is confident of convincing government of the figures, the bid committee may have a harder time persuading them to allow an exemption on anti-tobacco advertising legislation for the three days of the event each year.

However, he said half of the F1 teams don’t have cigarette sponsorships and three Grands Prix on the annual calendar are already tobacco-free.

There would also be social benefits, such as using the track’s medical facilities as a clinic for nearby communities.

“We will also divert revenue for Aids awareness and anti-drug abuse programmes and the Drive Alive campaign,” said Gant.

Denver Hendricks, director-general of Sport and Recreation SA, said the matter had been referred to the ministry of trade and industry because sport did not “have access to that kind of budget”.

[Teddy Bear]

Forgive me for bombarding in, but i must add my scream of support for the F1 in SA.
I won't go on too much on how SA could benifit from this because i see from a quick scan through that those thoughts have already been thought.

Before i post anything else. Just a quick question; anybody mind me posting here or is this a closed discussion? :runaway:

[joburg]

Before i post anything else. Just a quick question; anybody mind me posting here or is this a closed discussion?


Not at all! You're more than welcome! The more the merrier! Post pretty much anything you want on SA!

Just maybe go introduce yourself in the 'introduce yourself to the forum' thread on the next page... :)

Enjoy your stay.

[joburg]

JOHANNESBURG has followed in the footsteps of Cape Town and other top tourist destinations around the world with its very own annual Time Out guide for tourists.


The TimeOut magazine is really excellent. Didn't realise there was so much to do to Joburg, you just have to know where to do it!

We've also followed in Cape Town's footsteps with the SA Property Magazine. The glossy property mag has just created a Gauteng addition - really excellent publication, and quite cheap for such a huge glossy mag!

[Teddy Bear]

Nothing to Introduce myself with or by or how or anything. Me? I'm just an average Joe (except my name aint Joe) who is over worked, underpaid and the rest of the usual sob story stuff.
Lived in Canada till '95. Moved here and love it! Though i miss the skiing i won't leave this country for anything. (except maybe if you paid me)
The Culture, vibe, wildlife, citylife, etc... is what keeps me rooted to this place.

Sorry, thoguht i'd just introduce myself to this thread for now.
ciao

[Teddy Bear]

Once again on the topic of SA and F1.
What's to say that SA really has the budget and the infrastructure for such a huge event? (for want of a better word?)

Just curious. Was chatting woth some buddies about it just a few days ago. The general consensus was pretty much what i just asked.
Another suggestion was pointed out that the chances of the F1 coming to SA, although are not very high currently, will double after 2010.

Yes it would boost the economy, but, the economy also needs to be able to support something as big as F1.

Am I wrong? Right? Thoughts anyone?

[Caisson Boy]

Mr Ecclestone wants South Africa to host an F1 Grand Prix by 2009.

[hsark]

im sure cpt will get we've just got 2 other major competitions in 1 year check the motor race thread
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p=2562172#post2562172

[SA BOY]

I went the bharain F1 this year and it was massive. Next year I have bagged pit passes from a mate and cant wait. Although Im not a F! nut the whole set up , before and after parties and the amount of people who come half way around the world to watch is amazing.
I will be such a big boost to CT, hotels,resturants, events etc

[waltjie]

To all the SA "forumers"... HAVE A SPLENDID WEEKEND!

[hsark]

same to you but mines already turning out to be quite kak :(

[Teddy Bear]

Speed cameras on Johannesburg's freeways are to remain operative non-stop from Tuesday night, Metro Police spokesperson Wayne Minnaar said on Tuesday.

Previously, about 30 cameras placed on strategic places on the M1, N1, N3, and N12 highways had only been operational from 6.30am to 9.30pm, since their inception in 2001.

"We aim to reduce the death rate on Johannesburg's highways, caused by speeding, reckless drivers late at night, knowing well that the cameras are not operational after a certain time," Minnaar said.

Operation Bumble Bee - as the camera policing is called - will form part of a greater safety drive, Operation Token Days, which will last for 18 months.


.... "bugger..." :bash:

But at least there will be less of those drunk buggers all over the road. :cheers:
ciao all

[clive330]

This is REALLY pissing me off. Everyone knows who these people are but they have carte blanche to feed off tourists. The police are powerless. I have heard that its mostly caused by ONLY 30 streetkids! Why is the law so limpwristed? Durban's tourism future is held by a couple of selfish, criminal kids who should hvae been locked up ages ago
----------------------------------------
Muggers' mile

Security officers tell of 34 beachfront incidents on two weeks
November 24, 2004

By Bhavna Sookha, Sharlene Packree and Gilda van Schalkwyk

There were at least 34 muggings in the Durban entertainment zone - the beachfront and nearby streets - in the first two weeks of this month.

These are the incidents logged by various security and policing bodies with responsibility for safety of people and property in the area. Their identities are known to the Daily News but they declined to be named.

And while there are fears that muggings could escalate during the festive season, Deputy Mayor Logie Naidoo has reassured visitors that their safety is not at risk.

He said special holiday plans are soon to be implemented which include beefing up security in the area - deploying additional policemen and increasing bicycle patrols.

Naidoo said most hotels employed their own security, which was greatly welcomed.

According to a dossier, which the Daily News has in its possession, more than 34 reported incidents have taken place on the beachfront and nearby areas and most of them occur during the afternoon and late evening. There may be other incidents that have not been reported to the police.

Hot spot areas have been identified as the intersections of West Street, Smith Street, Point Road and Gillespie Street. Other dangerous areas are the side streets that run between main streets in the beachfront area.

Another notorious area is the walkway directly in front of and around the old Sea World and around the nearby paddling pools.
The modus operandi in these attacks are similar. The person, or couple, targeted is surrounded by a group of youths, never less than three.

Knives are then drawn and wallets, moon bags, cameras and cellphones are demanded or snatched off the targets.

The youths then run off, usually in the direction of Point Road and disappear into one of the buildings near Rock World.

Marian Immerman, a member of the Beachfront Business Committee and pharmacist in the area, said that even though she did not have exact numbers of muggings, there had definitely been a marked increase recently.

"We have people coming into the pharmacy daily for treatment and after chatting we sometimes find out that they are victims of a mugging in the vicinity," she said.

Immerman said the more dangerous areas included the vicinity of Rock World in Point Road and areas near the West Street Mall on the corner of West and Gillespie Street.

"We have also noted that it is mostly street children and older youths who are doing the mugging," she said.


Three senior members of the Democratic Alliance were mugged over the weekend during the party's two-day federal congress.

James Swart from Gauteng, Gerard van Rensburg, former MEC in the Western Cape, who was with his wife, and leader of the DA in the Western Cape, Theuns Botha, were mugged by three youths on Sunday.

Van Rensburg said he and his wife, Christa, were walking along the beachfront when they were accosted by three men who threatened them with a knife and demanded their cellphones. "Luckily we were not hurt." Van Rensburg said that while they were being mugged, a security guard who was standing nearby just watched.

DA spokesperson Dianne Kohler Barnard said that James Swart was so traumatised by being surrounded by a gang of youths before being stripped of all his possessions that he left the city immediately. "It is an enormous embarrassment and concern to the KwaZulu-Natal caucus that our colleagues were attacked in this manner. How can this city expect to host congresses if their delegates fear for their lives?" she asked.

A shop assistant from North Beach, whose name is known to the Daily News, said she was aware of more than three incidents of mugging in the past week alone.

"The first incident was on Tuesday, when a couple from England were robbed near Addington beach of their bag which contained a camera," she said

"The second was on Friday. A German couple were approaching the beach near Point Road and were accosted at knife point. The man's pocket was torn open to remove his wallet and his camera was taken.

"In another botched mugging four old ladies who live near the Wheel shopping centre, were almost robbed at knife point.

Bystanders intervened and told robbers to 'leave the old ladies alone'."

Four muggings were reported during the World Lottery Association Convention and Trade Show which held at the International Convention Centre last weekend.

According to Tembi Tulwana, director of Uthingo Public Affairs, four muggings and two incidents of theft were reported.

"According to figures supplied to Uthingo by the police, there were four muggings during which a camera and cash were taken and two incidents of theft of goods left unattended," she said.

"We are happy with the level of policing around the ICC and in the city and with the extra security on the Durban beachfront and around the hotels where delegates were staying."

[SYDNEY]

south Africa was voted Ireland's favourite long-haul destination at the Irish Travel Trade Awards held during the Holiday World eXperience travel trade exhibition in Dublin.

This was the second Irish award for tourist destinations that South Africa has won this year. In January, the country was named best long-haul destination by the Evening Herald.

South African Tourism's portfolio manager for Europe, Mzwakhe Msimango, said he was delighted at the award, "particularly because it was voted by the Irish Travel Trade. It shows that once people are aware of the authentically unique products that we have to offer, they will vote with their feet and visit our beautiful country".

Msimango said South Africa had experienced a 43% growth in tourist arrivals from Ireland over the last two years. Last year alone, arrivals increased by 22% between January and September.

"In May last yearm 100 travel agents from the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland were jointly hosted by South African Tourism and South African Airways in what was believed to be the largest expedition of Irish travel agents ever to South Africa", Msimango said.

He said the two trips were followed later by a South African roadshow throughout Ireland. "These two initiatives demonstrate SA Tourism's commitment to the Irish market, and have had a flow-on effect in real terms to arrivals."

This was the third consecutive year that South Africa exhibited at the Irish tourism and travel show, Holiday World. Exhibitors from the country included SA Tourism, South African Airways, Cape Grace, Western Travel Focus, Avis Car rental, Cape Tourism Board, Tourism KwaZulu-Natal and Kagga Kamma.

[SYDNEY]

SA tops 'World's Best' travel pops

South Africa stood out as one of the hottest destinations in the 2004 World's Best Awards survey by international travel magazine Travel & Leisure, sweeping the world's best hotels category with five of the 10 highest rated properties in the world.

Other hotels in the country ranked at numbers 13, 46, 49, 50, 61 and 74, giving South Africa more top 100 hotels than any country except the United States.

SA also took the top three tour operator and safari outfitter spots, and weighed in with the fifth highest rated city in the world.

The World's Best Awards survey, now in its ninth year, recognises the favourite hotels, cities, islands, tour operators, airlines, cruise lines and car rental agencies of the readers of the world's largest circulation travel magazine.
South Africa's 2003 winners
The results, according to US-based Travel & Leisure, were based on over 425 000 reader evaluations, making the survey one of the most comprehensive and definitive available.

The Singita Private Game Reserve in Sabi Sands on the edge of the Kruger National Park was voted the best hotel in the world - the second time a South African property has won this honour, after Mala Mala Game Reserve in 1997.

Singita took top honours in three categories: world's best hotels, top small hotels, and best hotel in Africa and the Middle East. This is the third international travel poll to crown Singita No. 1 in the world, following similar acclaim from the US's Conde Nast Traveler and the Andrew Harper's Hideaway Report.

Singita's two award-winning lodges, Boulders and Ebony, are situated in a wildlife sanctuary adjacent to Kruger National Park in Mpumalanga province.

Singita also has two exclusive game lodges at Singita Lebombo, a private concession on the remote eastern boundary of Kruger National Park. Singita Lebombo was recently voted hotel of the year in the UK Tatler Travel Awards 2004.

The other four SA hotels in Travel & Leisure's top 10 were Londolozi Private Game Reserve in Mpumalanga (4th), Bushman's Kloof Wilderness Reserve in the Western Cape (5th), Mala Mala Game Reserve in Mpumalanga (7th), and Phinda Private Game Reserve in KwaZulu-Natal (8th).

Three of the top 10 hotels - Londolozi, Pinda and Kichwa Tembo in Kenya (2nd place) - are managed by South Africa-based safari company CC Africa.

Cape Town was voted the best city in Africa and the Middle East and the fifth best city overall for the second year running. Sydney topped the list, followed by Rome, Florence and Bangkok.

South African operators Micato Safaris, Wilderness Safaris and Big Five Tours and Expeditions took the top three places in the list of the world's best tour operators and safari outfitters.

"The World's Best Awards always provide significant insights into where our singularly well-travelled readers are heading, and, even, their attitudes toward the world", said Travel & Leisure editor-in-chief Nancy Novogrod.

Novogrod said the fact that six of the highest rated hotels for 2004 were in Africa reflected "an enormous shift in interest towards that continent".

For all the World's Best winners, along with contact information, images and comparisons with the 2003 winners, visit The World's Best Awards.

Other SA hotels in the top 100
Cape Grace, Cape Town - 13
Sabi Sabi Private Game Reserve - 46
Table Bay Hotel, Cape Town - 49
Grande Roche Hotel, Paarl - 50
Grace in Rosebank, Johannesburg - 61
The Plettenberg, Plettenberg Bay - 74

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[datilguy]

In a recently published article and poll in the US, South Africa ranked the fourth most visited destination by travelers in 2003. Also facts that the publication pointed out was that SA had 7 of the top 10 sites every person should see before they die (CT, Kruger, Augrabies Falls,Durban, MuseumAfrica, Whales of Hermanus and the Drakensburg.) Also, amount of money NEW MEXICAN visitors to SA contributed through tourism receipts -$ 4,556,927. (Not bad for such a small state). New Mexico had 449 SA immigrants in 2003 and 4 of them moved to my town. : )

[clive330]

One of the upsides of immigration by people who still love their country is that they become ambassadors and will funnel business, investment and ideas for decades.

Ireland massively benefitted from this, and South Africa is sure to continue to do so.

Was that top ten list "Top Ten in Africa"?

[datilguy]

I dont think so. They had some white chick on the Today Show. And I am pretty sure they said top 10 in the world. But that does seem a little lofty huh. Also SA had 121 NEW MEXICANS emmigrate to SA.

[SYDNEY]

Cape Town was the only city featured in the top 5 of "50 places to see before you die" - Worldwide (AMAZING). The accolades keep coming and even better hotels will start construction next year. Can you imagine what will happen to this country if the unemployment levels drop and crime is within "acceptable" levels ? .... it will be an amazing place to be and that is why I am keeping my house and keeping my citizenship in the Republic of Cape Town ;)

[SYDNEY]

Brad Pitt spends 'R8.3m in SA:

Clarens - Hollywood heart-throb Brad Pitt is allegedly in love with a small Free State town.

Rumour has it that Pitt, known for his roles in films such as Troy, Meet Joe Black and Legends of the Fall, paid R8.3m for a property in the popular Eastern Free State town of Clarens.

On top of that, certain residents of Clarens are not even aware of Pitt's celebrity status.

"A Pitt Brad has bought the house," one of the town's residents said.

The house Pitt allegedly bought is a log cabin built in the Swiss Alpine style and stands on the slope of a hill just outside the town.

This huge house belonged to the Nouwens family of Nouwens carpets. The family commissioned the house 15 years ago.

The rumours about Pitt's transaction could not be confirmed on Sunday and one resident claimed it was nothing more than "small town gossip".

Estate agents in the town did not want to comment.

The town was abuzz recently when Pitt stayed at the Lake Clarens guesthouse and spent an evening at Clementine's restaurant on a recent quiet visit to South Africa.

Clarens, with its beautiful mountain views and sandstone formations, is particularly popular among artists, potters and city slickers in search of an alternative lifestyle.

A resident, who started the Sunnyside guesthouse in the town in the thirties, apparently predicted then that Clarens would become "the playground of the rich and famous".

This prediction seems to be coming true with many wealthy people from Johannesburg having bought property in the town.

Pitt could be the cherry on top.

[SYDNEY]

Big breakthrough for SA
06/12/2004 19:37 - (SA)

Johannesburg - In an unprecedented move that will firmly position South Africa as a preferred travel destination in the hearts and minds of global travellers, South African Tourism has concluded a multi-million rand deal with the National Geographic.

The campaign - rolling out between November 2004 and March 2005 - incorporates 938 television inserts and is also supported by print and photographic elements.

"Our intention is to leverage our new brand at the highest levels worldwide," explains Moeketsi Mosola, South African Tourism CEO.

"The new brand, launched throughout this year in selected markets across the globe, embodies the essence and values of South Africa as the break that breaks new ground.

"We fully intend to build on that premise and break new ground with this initiative.

"South African Tourism has created one of the most progressive brands in the world today - a brand that appeals to the traveller as opposed to the tourist.

"There is no better way to speak to a global audience that is both adventurous and in search of the extra-ordinary than through the National Geographic platform," Mosola concluded.

[datilguy]

Brad Pitt+Jennifer Anniston=HOT!!

[datilguy]

Gandalf, was that on the Travel Channel? I think I saw a show similar to that on that channel. There was also a show that had voted Cliftons Third Beach (I think thats the nude one) in the top 7 beaches worldwide.


Soccorro Patriot-El Defensor Chieftan

hopefully,in August at the plaza there will be the first annual South African Cultural Cookoff. Western New Mexicos small but influential (South Africans in the two nearest counties own 2 realty offices, a radio shack, and a gun store and shooting school) will be hosting a "braai" in celebration and demonstration of their cultural heritage. Says Tina Andries, "this event really gives us a chance to display our culture with the citizens of New Mexico, who have welcomed us with open arms." The event is excpected to draw about 500 people. Similar festivals are also being planned for Arizona, Texas, Georgia, and Illinois. Together with NM these states were the top 5 destination for SA immigrants. In the future there is expected to be a NM chile festival in SA to exhibit New Mexican and American heritage."

[SYDNEY]

^^^^ that is gr8 news, I stopped watching tv a few years ago so I am not sure but I think that it is on National Geographic Channel.

I have created a new thread with all the major developments - check it out:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=157613

[SYDNEY]

Gay tribe set for jungle fever
December 7, 2004

If you have been waiting all year to unleash the animal in you, the Mother City Queer Project costume party is your chance to let it all hang out.

This year the theme for one of the biggest events on the city's social calender is "Jungle Fever" or "Bos Befok".

Organisers have already termed the event Africa's biggest Queer Tribal Gathering and on December 18 the Artscape gardens on the Foreshore will be filled with 8 000 partygoers in tribal teams with matching jungle fever costumes.

André Vorster, one of the event organisers, said this year there would be a new twist to the party.

In addition to the Anaconda Arrival, Homo House, Dancing Queen Disco and African Afrodisiac dancefloors, the Lush Lesbian Lounge, which is off-limits to men, will be making its debut.

The multi-venue themed fancy-dress art party is already in its 11th year and showcases the richness of the Mother City's creativity.

Previous venues include the Castle of Good Hope and the Cape Town International Convention Centre.

But according to Vorster this year the venue will be an "outdoor tented tribal village with a large snake as the centrepiece".

[SYDNEY]

London - Prince Harry and his South African girlfriend spent a steamy afternoon at her father's holiday home in Umhlanga near Durban over the weekend.

The 20-year-old British royal and Capetonian Chelsy Davy, 19, were photographed in an intimate embrace on the sundeck of the house.

Photos show the blonde Davy in a bikini with Harry on top of her.

The photos were taken by Britain's The Sun. "The lovers made a meal of each other," the newspaper reported.

After this, the couple, accompanied by four friends, went to Zack's Café for cocktails.

Friends of the couple told The Sun that Harry flew from Britain to surprise Davy. He was initially scheduled to fly at the end of next week. "But the besotted Prince could not wait to see the blonde beauty, who is fast becoming his first true love."

Harry surprised Davy with the help of her brother, Shaun, by arriving on Friday night.

A friend of Davy said: "It was a total surprise to Chelsy and she loved it. Harry and her have been friends for a long time and for months they have kept up a long distance romance.

"But things have really hotted up now. She hasn't admitted it to us, but everyone who knows Chelsy knows they are head over heels."

The manager of Zack's Café, Stuart Harper, told The Sun that the group of six spent about two hours there. Their bill was about R500, which they split among each other.

The only clue to the identity of the royal guest was apparently Harry's three bodyguards, who sat at a separate table.

Harry is expected to spend the rest of the week with Davy in Durban.

And it seems as if Chelsy already has the royal seal of approval. According to her friends, she has met Prince Charles and got on well with him, the report claimed.

[Pule]

Guys, some stupids have started to critisise Joburg again. What's wrong with this people? Here's the link http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=157422

[SYDNEY]

Guys, some stupids have started to critisise Joburg again. What's wrong with this people? Here's the link http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=157422

Fvck them .. I am sick and tired of trying to convince people otherwise .. let them think what they want ... they are imbeciles and ignorant. We know the truth and as they say, those that laugh last laugh the merriest ... we are already rolling on the floor with laughter .. let them think what they want .. the fvckers ;)

More EXCELLENT news -

City to push N2 Gateway project next year - mayor (22 000 new homes by July)
December 9, 2004

"Buzzing" with new opportunities, the city is on a firm footing for 2005.

That's the word from Cape Town mayor Nomaindia Mfeketo in her end-of-year address to the city council yesterday.

Reflecting on progress over the past year, Mfeketo was optimistic about next year but said areas such as housing backlogs and water conservation required improvement.

Mfeketo also dismissed "rumours" about the retrenchment of City of Cape Town staff as "unfounded".

She said 80% of staff would receive placement letters formalising their positions from December 15.

The remaining 20%, comprising management-level staff, will go through a competitive process for placement in the second week of January, she said.

Mfeketo said the city would shift its focus next year to its "immediate flagship", the R3 billion N2 Gateway project that aims to transform the informal settlements of about 100 000 people along the N2.

The housing project stretches from Boystown to Joe Slovo and incorporates District Six as a restitution component.

The first 22 000 homes are scheduled to be completed by July, although the city currently has an acute shortage of building materials.

"The N2 Gateway Project is not about a gateway to the CBD by providing an acceptable facade as you approach the city, it's also about addressing the fundamental problems of housing and poverty," she said.

"It is a gateway to finding a solution to sustainable human settlement in South Africa and ... toward a sustainable, productive and inclusive city."

Thanking Capetonians for their efforts to save water, Mfeketo said about 7.46 million cubic metres had been saved, but this needed to be upped to 10.7 million cubic metres.

Even then, this only represented a 70% success rate due to the drop in dam levels.

"Total dam storage is 53.5% compared to last year's 71.2%. If next year is as dry as the past winter, then this drought will be the worst on record and we may well be faced with a double whammy of low water supplies and a poor rainfall outlook."

The city was gearing up for a bumper holiday season. "... we are going to station 1 252 uniformed staff from the city's three municipal law enforcement disciplines," Mfeketo said.

"We are putting in place a comprehensive patrolling programme which includes tourist hot spots and high-risk areas. Tourists will be provided with information to help prevent crime."

In addition, 250 staff will be deployed to ensure cleaner and safer beach facilities and public toilets throughout the city.

[SYDNEY]

House prices reached new heights this weekend - they have gone through the roof eg. 3 houses will be demolished in Bantry Bay to make way for a beautiful apartment block - the price starts at a cool R11.5 million to R25 million. 7 Houses will be built in Clifton, the starting price is R35 million and there are apparently 20 names on the waiting list - all very famous people ... mmmmm (what am I doing wrong ;))

[joburg]

Tuesday, December 14, 2004
Johannesburg bids to host 2010 Gay Games
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

JOHANNESBURG is bidding to host the next Gay Games in 2010.
If the bid is accepted, the economic impact on Johannesburg is estimated at R500m.
The games are held every four years to foster and augment the self-respect of lesbians and gay men throughout the world through an organised international participatory athletic and cultural event held every four years.
According to Johannesburg Tourism Company ceo, Deon Viljoen, the Federation will be looking at a wide range of criteria, including stadiums and other venues, city and national infrastructure, including transport, security, hospitality facilities, entertainment and community support. “We provide world-class tourism standards as well as uniquely South African pre- and post-Games attractions,” said Viljoen.
On the prospect of hosting the premier sporting event, Viljoen had this to say: “More people participate in the gay games then in the Olympics and these games open up the destination to gay tourism, one our focuses for Johannesburg.”
The city is one of four submitting a bid to the Federation of Gay Games in March 2005 to host the games.

(Natalia Thomson)

[SA BOY]

who are the rivals?

[joburg]

I don't think they've announced all the bidders yet. There are probably a number of cities bidding, and thereafter this list is shortened like the Olympics.

Anyway, Joburg has a good chance with the Soccer 2010 world cup, but has a bad chance with the terrible reputation the city has worldwide. People think Joburg is the lair of the devil!

[SYDNEY]

Jo'burg is competing with Paris, Cologne and Berlin to host the event .... huge gay cities in their own rights and far safer .. Jo'burg faces tough competition.

The Johannesburg Tourism Company is driving the bid. CEO Deon Viljoen says the Gay Games can give the city an financial boost of up to R550m.

He says the Games draw more competitors and visitors than the Olympics, because competitors take part in age groups and not on behalf of their country.

Approximately 12 000 athletes and 30 000 visitors attended the Gay Games which were held in Sydney in 2002.

"The Gay Games will open up South Africa for so-called pink or gay tourism. "Cape Town supports the Johannesburg bid and will present some of the festivals before and after the games," Viljoen says.

Cape Town would have been the better option regarding the International Community's perception of SA Cities. I am holding thumbs for Jozi :)

[clive330]

"gandalf33
ALWAYS NAKED & READY"!

I love the avatar! :lol:

[SYDNEY]

"gandalf33
ALWAYS NAKED & READY"!

I love the avatar! :lol:

My boyfriend always says that I will blow away if I ride his bike - I proved him wrong - I blew him away ;)

[HirakataShi]

Vaalies notice any influx of Zimbos recently?

An estimated 70 percent of Zimbabwe's working population, or 3,4 million people, have left the country to escape its political and economic crisis, a regional church group said on Friday.

About 1,2 million are believed to be in South Africa, making them one of the largest groups of foreigners in the country, the SA-registered Solidarity Peace Trust said in a report.

"An estimated 25 to 30 percent of Zimbabwe's population has left the nation. Out of five million potentially productive adults, 3,4 million are outside Zimbabwe. This is a staggering 60 to 70 percent of productive adults," the report said.

Zimbabwe is mired in its worst crisis since independence in 1980, with unemployment estimated at 70 percent and inflation in triple digits. Critics say the seizure of white-owned commercial farms has badly hit the agricultural sector, and accuse the government of cracking down on political opposition.

[SYDNEY]

SA house prices top world list
15/12/2004 08:08 - (SA)

Johannesburg - In the competitive global residential property market, house prices in South Africa are growing the fastest in the world.

An increase of more than 30% in residential property prices over the past year has ensured South Africa hit top spot on the authoritative house price index of The Economist.

With growth of 35.1% on a year basis between the third quarter last year and the third quarter this year, the country surpassed Hong Kong where property prices grew by 31.2% over the corresponding period.

Third on the list was Spain with growth of 17.2%, followed by New Zealand with 16.4%.

The Economist described the global residential boom as exceptional. Never before have so many countries experienced growth in their residential property markets at the same time.

This trend is largely driven by low interest rates.

The growing impact of residential markets on economies encouraged the world's leading business publication to introduce its global residential property index in 2002.

The index includes more than 20 countries and uses information from loan institutions, estate agents and national statistics.

The latest figures show that in the last year house prices in 11 countries increased by about 10%.

Christopher Hart, senior treasury economist with Absa, ascribed the growth in South African property prices to the positive growth in the economy and low interest rates. The shortage of formal housing in the country is also a contributing factor.

Statistics South Africa's adapted figures of the gross domestic product (GDP) that was released earlier this month, showed that the local economy was growing at a rate of 3% on an annual basis. The GDP growth rate for the third quarter was 5.6%.

Erwin Rode, property valuator and economist at Rode & Associates, said on Tuesday that he was concerned over the sharp increase in house prices in South Africa.

He called it a double-edged sword and cautioned that people should be worried, as this trend could not continue in this vein.

The latest World Economic Outlook of the International Monetary Fund warned that the upswing in residential property prices, which is currently a global phenomenon, could be followed by a global slide. Should this happen, it could have a negative effect on the world economy.

The total value of residential property in developing economies increased by $20 trillion to more than $60 trillion over the past three years.

[datilguy]

I love Joburg! I dont understand what all the negativity is about. People have bad additudes and they think the net is just for bashing. Oh well. Lets keep our fingers crossed for Jozi.

Gandalf, luv the avatar! Is that u? (GRRRRRR!)
___________________________________________________

I wish you all a very happy holiday!! :)

_____________________________________________

[SYDNEY]

I love Joburg! I dont understand what all the negativity is about. People have bad additudes and they think the net is just for bashing. Oh well. Lets keep our fingers crossed for Jozi.

Gandalf, luv the avatar! Is that u? (GRRRRRR!)
___________________________________________________

I wish you all a very happy holiday!! :)

_____________________________________________

Guilty as charged :clown: (these are the kind of things I get up to when I am bored) .... May you also have a gr8 holiday and be naughty ;)

[clive330]

Can we "un" sticky the thread "Keep the threads alive"? It isnt being used and it makes one less normal thread visible on the page - ironically "killing" a thread before its time...

[SYDNEY]

Can we "un" sticky the thread "Keep the threads alive"? It isnt being used and it makes one less normal thread visible on the page - ironically "killing" a thread before its time...

De Snor used to help us in this regard but he is unfortunately not a moderator anymore. I will ask Jan for help. The SA forum need a major re-do now that super duper Durbs has woken up ;) ... hold thumbs !

[Mo Rush]

hey all prince harry's girl is not amazing special but she must be cause rumours say he wants to marry her she is in the same course that i am at UCT not the brightest spark either lol she shud also watch her language
but hey shes gonna be famous soon so i better be nice to her

[SYDNEY]

hey all prince harry's girl is not amazing special but she must be cause rumours say he wants to marry her she is in the same course that i am at UCT not the brightest spark either lol she shud also watch her language
but hey shes gonna be famous soon so i better be nice to her

That's hilarious - you can make money from the gossip columnists - I will be your managing agent ;)

[SYDNEY]

'Pink' currency floats in CT
20/12/2004 12:05 - (SA)

Cape Town - With yet another well attended gay event under its belt, Cape Town is optimistic that it can continue to build on its reputation as a key international "gay friendly" tour destination.

About 10 000 locals and foreigners took part in the city's annual gay costume party at the weekend, billed this year as "Africa's biggest queer tribal gathering" by Mother City Queer Project (MCQP) organisers.

The organisers expressed their satisfaction that gay events in the city were an attraction not only for local gays, but for international visitors, many of whom had bought package deals designed for gay visitors.

Last year, the MCQP raked in around R50m (about $8.3m) for local tourism with the event and spinoffs from activities in the shadow of Cape Town's Table Mountain.

More service providers in Cape Town appear to be following on the heels of tour companies that have set out to lure gay travellers to South Africa in recent years.

Local plastic surgeons, estate agents, jewellers, information technology and law firms are trying to lure gay business and particularly those who spend "pink" foreign currency.

"People come in specifically for the Cape Town summer. This time of the year, one in five people at a gay party will be foreign," said Russel Southey of Cape Town Pride.

Cape Town has come to offer an "alternative to the traditional European gay tour destinations" of Ibiza in Spain or the south of France, he believes.

"There are two types of gay tours. There's the gay tour operator who gets people to Cape Town having targeted the gay community in the United Kingdom or Amsterdam.

Then there's the tour operator who offers a deal that includes a specific gay event - not the usual sites in Cape Town," he said.

All year-round gay events are not in short supply in Cape Town where a large number of clubs, bars, cafes, restaurants, bathhouses and beaches are listed as gay facilities.

The weekend's event marked a celebration of summer in the city and the rising feeling of freedom that 10 years of democracy has brought to the country's gay community.

In October, the city held its 7th annual "Sex and Kultuur" festival, a showcase of gay art, erotica and entertainment.

In other parts of the country, large crowds of gays also bring out feather boas for events such as Johannesburg's annual Gay Pride March or the Pink Loerie Mardi Gras in the southern town of Knysna.

Like the MCQP costume party, Cape Town Pride 2005 that takes place over ten days in February and includes a parade, a golf festival and the world's first, gay horseracing day at the city's Kenilworth Racecourse, is a major event on the gay calendar.

The MCQP event coincided this week with the publication of Cape Town's "Pink Map" - a guide for gays to the city and its surrounding areas. Most of the sites listed are interspersed with the city's heterosexual entertainment venues.

[Pule]

Dysan1, Gandalf, Mo Rush and all other guys. I think we have all based too much of our attention on Joburg, CT and Durbs. I think that we need to dig deeper to get an information and the current developments of towns/cities like, Nelspruit, Bloemfontein, Pretoria, Kimberly etc. Lets all be open minded and learn more about the whole of South Africa.

[Mo Rush]

I ONLY CARE for CT and olympics in ct and stadiums and a bit for DURBS and JOBURG. go ahead if u want to talk bout other cities.....

[SYDNEY]

I also feel that the other towns are not worth a mention. Skyscraper city is about major projects and not minor events ... Port Elizabeth could become a point of interest once their waterfront kicks off but until then I would like to stick to Jozi, Durbs and iKapa ;) ... by the way Mo Rush - your thread is ready ... happy posting :)

[dysan1]

hey gandalf matey, tell me, what am i moving to the durbs thread? what is staying of the present threads and which are going? is EVERYTHING going into just one thingy? wont they all get a lil bit cramped?

[dysan1]

oh and pule, i get what you trying to say, include the country and all, which is grand, but it doesnt seem like major projects are really happening outside of the 3 main centres. Except i read in the mercury a lil while back that Pietermaritzburg, of all places, is getting a R1,5billion waterfront development... did anyone see that coming? They start in 2005! so there could be life after all!!! that place aint the sleepy hollow it used to be. the places will be real dif in a few years

[Mo Rush]

JUST imagine the opening ceremony of the gay games WHAT FUN is rugby a sport in gay games?this will be a big step for SA i hope joburg is safe enough for the games

[Pule]

oh and pule, i get what you trying to say, include the country and all, which is grand, but it doesnt seem like major projects are really happening outside of the 3 main centres. Except i read in the mercury a lil while back that Pietermaritzburg, of all places, is getting a R1,5billion waterfront development... did anyone see that coming? They start in 2005! so there could be life after all!!! that place aint the sleepy hollow it used to be. the places will be real dif in a few years

This, R1,5billion waterfront development in
Pietermaritzburg, is one of those things that I think they worth beign talked about as this forum is about development and I'm sure that development doesn't only happen in the major cities only. I think it will always be better if we spread our wings and know more about developments in all other cities.

Mo Rush, I believe that its stupid of you to only focus on CT and the olympic games. The reason I'm saying this is that the likes of 2010 SWC will be across the country and there will obviously be more developments in those cities. I hope you all get my point guys.

[Pule]

Here we go ...

Pietermaritzburg is to get its own R1-billion waterfront at Camp's Drift.

Details about the development, centred on the point where the Dusi Canoe Marathon starts, will be released on Friday.

The 26-hectare project initiated by the Msunduzi Municipality is expected to take about a decade to complete, ultimately creating 24 000 jobs and an estimated additional R16-million annual rates revenue for the council.

The main features of the development are expected to be residential properties with water frontage, retail and entertainment facilities open 24 hours a day as well as an island with a convention centre and a floating music stage.

'The island would become the place to meet'
Nandi Mandela of the Ocean Spray Consortium that won the public tender was sketchy on the details as the official announcement is on Friday.

However, she said the key urban design concept they had proposed was to establish a series of canals and water basins forming extensions to the present river system as a means to increase water frontage, extending the quality, experience and ambiance of a waterfront setting, especially for the residential properties to be built.

For Pietermaritzburg this new development follows hot on the heels of the Liberty Midlands Mall, the rapid acquisition of office space in the CBD by government including the premier's R20-million office building as well a series of retail property developments for the low-income sector.

Pietermaritzburg has also experienced marked property price increases, with new developments being snapped up before the graders have even moved on site.

The consortium is an empowerment based group of local business people from Pietermaritzburg and Durban.

Mandela said key aspects of the development will be to establish a waterfront extending the city's present tourism and recreational base while at the same time developing the area to form a real and living environment accommodating residential, office and retail projects.

Included in the proposal is the development of a man-made Olympic standard canoe and kayak slalom water course, the first in Africa. It will be used as a training venue and recreational facility based on the existing popular canoe activity in this region.

"The vision is to use the Camps Drift Waterfront to harness the phenomenal growth of the Duzi Canoe Marathon in South Africa. This facility aims at attracting foreign athletes to the city. The developers foresee this as a means of attracting substantial foreign revenue and extending the tourism base of the city"

One of the ground-breaking concepts is to create an island linked by bridges to the river banks. It will host a range of urban development projects including prime office and retail space, a market place and boutique hotels.

"The island would become the place to meet, enjoy oneself, shop, dine and experience all the thrills of a truly vibrant African waterfront. Public spaces looking over the water, connected through promenades with alfresco restaurants leading to splendid bridges that connect the island to other waterfront attractions are proposed," she said.

For live music lovers a floating jazz stage has been proposed on which regular jazz performances will be held.

"Located on Festival Island as a centrepiece is the ideal site for an Msunduzi Convention Centre being close to the CBD and provincial core, yet forming part of a waterfront setting."

[Pule]

Cape Town may soon have designated lanes for vehicles carrying specific numbers of passengers if Transport Minister Jeff Radebe's countrywide plan to minimise traffic congestion is approved.

The plan, including cameras to police drivers to ensure they stay in their designated lanes, will first be tested in Gauteng.

National transport department deputy director-general Lucky Montana said on Monday: "We are looking at travel-demand management. There has been a rise in the use of private transport over the years and we are hoping that by improving public transport, more people will make use of it."

While the department did not expect to eliminate congestion, it hoped that it could be reduced "dramatically" through a combination of measures such as the department's R7,7-billion recapitalisation programme to renew the country's minibus taxi fleet.

[Pule]

Check this out http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=160934 its interesting poll...

[SYDNEY]

hey gandalf matey, tell me, what am i moving to the durbs thread? what is staying of the present threads and which are going? is EVERYTHING going into just one thingy? wont they all get a lil bit cramped?

I have some time on my hands so I will start moving them across ... if there is anything new please post them in the Durban - Construction thread .. oooh weee

[SYDNEY]

Cape Town may soon have designated lanes for vehicles carrying specific numbers of passengers if Transport Minister Jeff Radebe's countrywide plan to minimise traffic congestion is approved.

The plan, including cameras to police drivers to ensure they stay in their designated lanes, will first be tested in Gauteng.

National transport department deputy director-general Lucky Montana said on Monday: "We are looking at travel-demand management. There has been a rise in the use of private transport over the years and we are hoping that by improving public transport, more people will make use of it."

While the department did not expect to eliminate congestion, it hoped that it could be reduced "dramatically" through a combination of measures such as the department's R7,7-billion recapitalisation programme to renew the country's minibus taxi fleet.

Over my dead body will I use a taxi as Public transport .. give me the hovercraft or the train but a taxi - NEVER !

[De Snor]

Over my dead body will I use a taxi as Public transport .. give me the hovercraft or the train but a taxi - NEVER !

How is the actual metropolitan railway network in CT ?

[SYDNEY]

South Africans ! - Go and add yourself onto the list @

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=163307&page=4&pp=20

[SYDNEY]

How is the actual metropolitan railway network in CT ?

I can only say that it was not very safe but things have improved since a court ruling stated that Spoornet (the railway operators) are responsible for commuters safety .. here is a link to previously posted articles (I hope that it helps):

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=122575&page=2

[SYDNEY]

$hit .. I am so angry .. I have just replied to this thread ... I know that Mo Rush has also had his say.

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p=2979674#post2979674

[SYDNEY]

Search on for designer of Statue of Freedom :
January 09 2005 at 05:27PM

Architects and designers from around the world are getting involved in the search for a design for the proposed Statue of Freedom in Port Elizabeth to honour former president Nelson Mandela.

A competition just launched by the Mandela Bay Development Agency to design the statue has quickly attracted worldwide interest.

However, one of the few rules of the competition is that the design must be by a South African or by a South African working in collaboration with a foreign consortium or individual.

"Although only launched officially last week, designers from around the country and the world have been visiting and registering on the competition website since it went live in December," said Mandela Bay Development Agency head Pierre Voges.

'The Statue of Freedom must be something that creates jobs and opportunities'. Advertisements inviting creative South Africans to enter the competition are also being placed in the Eastern Cape and national media.

The competition is open to designs of statues, buildings or monuments.

"What we are looking for is a structure that reflects the spirit of freedom and celebrates the life, work and stature of Nelson Mandela," said Constitutional Court judge Albie Sachs, convener of the panel of judges.

"The ideas that are being presented even at this early stage are really exciting and take the concept of an iconic freedom memorial to new levels," he said.

One idea is for a 100-metre tall "aluminium space frame tetrahedron representing the suffering of the people of South Africa".

A sphere inside the tetrahedron would be "gently moved by air and wind inside its very rigid cage in order to express the dynamic power of the spirit of freedom".

Said Voges: "This is the type of innovative thinking we are looking for."

The Statue of Freedom is one of the core projects for the revitalisation of the Port Elizabeth city centre.

It will form the focus for the redevelopment of the harbour area and will link the port to the city.

Competition guidelines are that the design should be a maximum of 100m high, cost around R50 million to construct and be situated where the harbour meets the beach at its most seaward point.

According to Voges, international interest is creating opportunities for local designers and architects to work with others from around the world who have worked on similar projects.

"The Statue of Freedom must be something that creates jobs and opportunities by attracting visitors from around the world."

Full details for the competition are available on the competition website www.thefreedomstatue.com

The winner will be announced in July.

[Mo Rush]

hey gandalf thanks for your awesome reply on that stupid forum....welldone just thought i should have my say too

[datilguy]

SOUTH AFRICAN CULTURE TAKES OVER SOUTHWEST THROUGH THEATER,DANCE,MUSIC


Albuquerque Website News Journal, 01/08/05

South African culture comes to New Mexico. Currently the Fifth Annual TRICKLOCK REVOLUTIONS INTERNATIONAL THEATER FESTIVAL, is hitting the clubs, theaters and venues of hot downtown Albuquerque (and for the first time ever Santa Fe). The festival has become the largest independent theater festival in the world and is held annually in our city of the southwest, the good ole Duke City. This year 47 different programs are scheduled to perform, including our homegrown world-renouned theater company TRICKLOCK. Among the most anticipated performance is Vincent Mantsoe's production. Vincent comes from South Africa and is currently one of the hottest and most popular dance and theater troupes in Johannesburg and other South African cities. A gripping and powerful mix of Soweto's kwaito, modern South African theater, white rock and traditional and American/European inspired modern dance. Additionaly he will give a look at shangomas, which are traditional doctors popular among some blacks. He joins a strong international lineup with performers from Ireland, Canada, UK, Mexico, Greece, as well as famous acts from Chicago, NYC and LA. The festival adds to ABQ's growing communique` of theater and film celebrations, joining the worlds largest digital film festival, International Digiflix on 66. Also this month the South African band Ladysmith Mambazo, known for their harmonous tunes loved by many and excellent work in film and theater, will be performing downtown at the Sunset theater. Tickets are $15.00. The Albuquerque Zoo (the third best zoo in the nation) has opend its South African Cultural Pvilion exhibiting Sotho, Zulu, Xhosa, Affrikaaner and Modern South African artwork.

___________________________________________

Whoopee!!! I am going to see Ladysmith Mambazo in ABQ on Feb. 14. Uummmmm, if only the Speingbok Nude Girls would come here.

[Pule]

N West govt to expand Mandela drive

BuaNews - BuaNews


The North West Government has approved the expansion of the Nelson Mandela Drive to Ramatlabama border gate, the main road that links Botswana and Mafikeng in the province.

By Lazarus Mabasa, tel: 012 314 2175

The North West Government has approved the expansion of the Nelson Mandela Drive to Ramatlabama border gate, the main road that links Botswana and Mafikeng in the province.

The provincial government hopes the expansion will attract investors, promote tourism as well as contribute to Nepad initiatives.

It also said that with business developments currently taking place in Mafikeng, it was anticipated that economic activity would increase tremendously in the capital city.

The number of shoppers from Botswana is also expected to increase and as a result huge road traffic volumes are expected.

The government explained that some of the previous major events hosted in Mafikeng such as the soccer Vodacom Challenge and other large gatherings had demonstrated the need in this regard.

This included a shopping mall that is being constructed in the capital city.

"The challenge is to ensure that the Nelson Mandela Drive is wide enough to carry the anticipated traffic volume.

"The improvement of the road will also ensure that it meets the stature of the person it is named after," said the government. --BuaNews

[Sammy]

http://www.channel4.com/4homes/buyingabroad/countryguides/Top20.html

A program aired on channel 4 last week with the top 20 destinations to purchase a place in the sun...Cape Town comes in at number 2.

[clive330]

The Joburg Gallery thread would be more impressive if 2/3 of the pics werent red crosses. Gandalf - please edit your first post accordingly.

[SYDNEY]

http://www.channel4.com/4homes/buyingabroad/countryguides/Top20.html

A program aired on channel 4 last week with the top 20 destinations to purchase a place in the sun...Cape Town comes in at number 2.

Thanks for the link Sammy ;)

Clive330 ... I don't get any x's but let me go and check .......

[datilguy]

National Geographic's 14 worlds most classic destinations. (Please note these are NOT in order)

Las Vegas
The Pyramids
New York City
Antarctica
San Fransisco
Beijing
CAPE TOWN
Nepal
Hong Kong
Niagara Falls
Jerusalem (unfortunately)
Berlin
Yosemite Natl. Park
and of course... all roads lead to ROME!


I took the liberty of rounding out the top 25 for my own fancy.

London
Paris
Athens
Stonehenge
Kruger Natl. Park
Fez
Rio de Janeiro
Sydney
Baghdad
Istanbul
Moscow


ps. a true freind stabs you in the front

pss. no hate mail please, I get enough already ;)

[clive330]

Sometimes I forget how random South Africa can be:

Today:
-Boesak gets a presidential pardon expunging his significant criminal record for no apparent reason
-The museum staff at the National war museum are arrested for having military equipment at the museum :|

[SA BOY]

oh it makes me laugh

[SYDNEY]

Cosatu hails 'historic remarks'
18/01/2005 11:22 - (SA)

Johannesburg - The Congress of South African Trade Unions (Cosatu) said on Tuesday it noted "with pleasure" the comments of the African National Congress (ANC) Secretary General, Kgalema Motlanthe, and the statement of the ANC Lekgotla about the situation in Zimbabwe.

"We are heartened by the secretary general's historic remarks, coming shortly before the forthcoming elections in our neighbouring country, on the need to level the playing field, the removal of restrictions on opposition parties and the call for the police to behave in an impartial manner," the union federation said in a statement.

Cosatu, which is in a tripartite alliance with the ANC and the South African Communist Party (SACP), added that these comments go a long way to closing the gap between the union and the ANC that seemed to exist on the issue of Zimbabwe towards the end of last year, especially in the debate being conducted in ANC Today (on the ANC's website) following the deportation of Cosatu's fact-finding mission.

The trade union noted that it does, however, object to the comment made by Kgalema Motlanthe on SABC TV news that Cosatu's agenda was motivated by the desire to attract headlines in the media.

"This uncharacteristic comment borders on an attack on Cosatu's integrity when it addresses these important issues."

Cosatu pointed out that acting under a mandate from its National Congress, it has at all times been concerned only to defend the human rights and the economic well-being of its fellow-workers in Zimbabwe and to show solidarity with those in the Zimbabwe Congress of Trade Unions (ZCTU).

The federation has written to the Zimbabwe minister of labour, Paul Mangwana, about the fact-finding mission that it intends to resend to Zimbabwe and is awaiting a reply.

Delegation bulldozed

"Unfortunately however, rather than respond to Cosatu, the minister has been quoted in the Daily Mirror, on January 15, as saying that 'if the Cosatu delegation bulldozed its way into the country, it was going to meet the same fate as in October last year and that they are unwanted people. Unwanted people are thrown away. If they come we will force them into the next kombi.'"

Cosatu said that Mangwana also suggested that the union should be working through a bilateral structure, which does not exist.

The general secretaries of Cosatu and the ZCTU, Zwelinzima Vavi and Wellington Chibebe, are to meet in Cape Town on January 22, to discuss how to move forward.

"In the meantime, we shall continue to organise pickets of the Zimbabwe high commission and, together with the ZCTU, are looking at other possible actions including a blockade of the border.

"We invite those who said we acted irresponsibly by sending a fact-finding mission to Zimbabwe last year to tell us what we should do now, in face of the intransigence of the Zimbabwe labour minister."

[SYDNEY]

:runaway:

[Mo Rush]

hi gandalf

you leaving south africa is indeed sad to hear your amazing images will always be remebered but just the other day you called people who left south africa, people who did not want to be ruled by a black south african , it will certainly be our loss as cape tonians to no longer be amazed by your photography, well i hope that while you were in ct it was good, yes we have a major battle to face in terms of crime and im not arguing against that i do however believe that there is hope, i will continue to proceed to try and ensure that the olympic games comes to cape town..
i was 5 when my parents were ready to emigrate to australia for good as things were very tough under apartheid, a part of me wonders what life would have been like, but i cant say i regret not emigrating, i do hold Ct and south africa dear to my heart and it has offered me as a young south african amazing opportunities...
your decision saddens me dearly, i hope that you would reconsider...soon our 10th province will have more south africans than the western cape has
perhaps one day you will return to witness the 2020 olympic opening ceremony

till then be safe all the best and know where your home is!!!
auf winder.... cant remember the rest

[Pule]

Well put Mo Rush, I will miss him a lot. if there is anything we can do to make you stay please say it and we will try by all means to do it. Just mention something that we all can possiblly do.

[datilguy]

Gandalf, its sad to see you go. Shame we wont have your awesome photography anymore. Wish you would reconsider. Well I hope you choose someplace sunny and warm, so stay out of Canberra or Hobart. Anyway as previously put by Mo Rush, be safe, all the best, and remember where your home is! Surely you will still participate in the SA forum right? :)

[Chuq]

Gandalf, its sad to see you go. Shame we wont have your awesome photography anymore. Wish you would reconsider. Well I hope you choose someplace sunny and warm, so stay out of Canberra or Hobart. Anyway as previously put by Mo Rush, be safe, all the best, and remember where your home is! Surely you will still participate in the SA forum right? :)

I hope he actually has enough sense to ignore stereotypes and visits Hobart himself before making that decision...

http://www.alwaysnever.net/weather/hobartcity.shtml

[SYDNEY]

:runaway:

[SYDNEY]

:runaway:

[HirakataShi]

I think you will return to South Africa within 7 years. Life outside of South Africa is bizarre. I can afford to live in South Africa the way I live in Japan for 50 times less. Once I'm finished, I'm heading back to Limpopo (or maybe elsewhere in ZA????) to live like a prince.

[SYDNEY]

:runaway:

[AJphx]

So how did these politicians get voted in? Do large portions of the Afrikaners and anglos vote for the ANC?

[SYDNEY]

I think you will return to South Africa within 7 years. Life outside of South Africa is bizarre. I can afford to live in South Africa the way I live in Japan for 50 times less. Once I'm finished, I'm heading back to Limpopo (or maybe elsewhere in ZA????) to live like a prince.

You can hardly compare Japan to most Countries, it is probably one of the most expensive countries in the World and one of the most densely populated Countries in the world.

[SYDNEY]

So how did these politicians get voted in? Do large portions of the Afrikaners and anglos vote for the ANC?

The majority of The ANC supporters are black - approximately 65%. The black population of South Africa constitutes 76% of the total figure. Not many Whites, Indians or Coloureds vote for the ANC. Basically we are fvcked ... with such an over-whelming majority, the ANC will remain in power and the same corrupt people will have the power to do as they please.

[SYDNEY]

GOOD NEWS - My letter to the Mayor has been published in today's (27 Jan 05) The Capetowner Newspaper - they have also sent it to the mayor's office for comment ... she is going to be so acid ;)

[SYDNEY]

SA 'too white' for Africa seat:
27/01/2005 23:01 - (SA)

Abuja - South Africa and Egypt "are not black enough" to represent Africa in the United Nations security council, says Nigeria, the other contender for the sought-after position.

"We have true blacks, unlike Egypt and South Africa," said Davo Oluyemi-Kusa, a top Nigerian civil servant, on Thursday.

She argued that Egypt was more part of the Arabian sector and South Africa owed its high level of development to the influence of whites.

Oluyemi-Kusa is a director of the Institute for Peace and Conflict Settlement, which falls under the Nigerian presidency.

President Olusegun Obasanjo of Nigeria serves as chairman of the Africa Union this year.

The question of who should represent Africa on the security council is a hotly debated point at the first half-yearly AU conference.

SA a driving power

Although the UN has not yet decided to change the composition of its security council, it is a possibility that is being discussed ardently worldwide.

South Africa has been the driving power for years behind the campaign to reform the UN and make it more representative.

Last year, South Africa gave diplomatic signs that it was "available to serve" and has been involved in discreet consultations since then, instead of lobbying aggressively for support.

Oluyemi-Kusa said that Nigeria deserved the seat on the security council "more than others" in view of its leadership in settling conflicts in Africa for many years.

"Should there be serious disunity, Egypt may be a compromise, but the fact is that Nigeria is the only true African candidate."

[Mo Rush]

WOW GANDALF about the newspaper i never saw a copy how did it get to the cape towner??? you should then also be in charge of media relations in cape towns olympic bid
!!

[HirakataShi]

The majority of The ANC supporters are black - approximately 65%. The black population of South Africa constitutes 76% of the total figure. Not many Whites, Indians or Coloureds vote for the ANC. Basically we are fvcked ... with such an over-whelming majority, the ANC will remain in power and the same corrupt (and dumb) people will have the power to do as they please.

Note that blacks are a minority in both the Northern and Western Cape. Both provinces are predominantly Coloured. The ANC victories in both provinces in 2004 cannot possibly be attributed to the black vote alone. Many coloureds must have also voted ANC in those two provinces.

Anyway, I do not think things are as dire as some might say. I cannot really comment about any other provinces, but in Limpopo the economy and crime situation has improved over the last 10 years. Public Services, once non existent, are pretty good. Of course unemployment is as bad in Limpopo as it is anywhere in ZA right now, but considering just 10 years ago the Limpopo province was completely ignored as part of the Transvaal with the majority of the population working as farm hands on Afrikaaner farms, I think things are much better now. The economy has diversified and there are more Sotho and Venda people running businesses, instead labouring on farms.

[Awkab]

I too do not think things are as dire as some make them out to be...me and most of my friends have no intention of leaving the country anytime soon, and those that do only want to get some international working experience before returning home. I'm quite happy in Cape Town, and I think there are loads of opportunity in Jo'burg. Yes crime is a problem, but maybe it's sound sacrilege to say this, but I guess i've gotten used to it...I don't live in fear.

I've been involved with non-profits before as well, and I'm glad to see that Trevor Manuel has recommended opening up a large employment training fund to those that are unemployed (previously it was only for further training for those who already had jobs). I think this signals a shift in the ANC toward accepting and embracing the informal sector, as many vocational training programmes are geared toward this sector. As Manuel said in a speech last year, unemployment will not be reduced through formal employment in this country...the informal sector is key. I'm quite happy with the stance the ANC is taking on this issue, and it reflects some of the diverse interests that are involved in the political party (the labour unions, for one, would love to increase their membership by embracing the informal sector).

I'm still quite confidant that the South Africa in ten years time will have progressed significantly.

Oh, and Gandalff: I don't think some African mentality is a bad thing...there are many positive things that can be drawn from African culture. There are some negatives of course, but we can also draw up a list of negative things in European and Western culture. A bit of both the positive elements in African and Western mentality in SA doesn't hurt.

[Pule]

I also think things will change with time, but if I get a job overseas I will definately go for the sake of experience and money, but will never forget the dry and hotness of Limpopo province coupled with its bananas and mangoes, the hills and greener nature of Mpumalanga, the casinoes, lodges and the platinum of the North West, The Gold and the highrises of Johannesburg and Gauteng at large, not forgeting the Basotho of Free State. I shall always remember that Kimberly has the Largest man made hole in the world and the deserts of Nortern Cape province that are occupied by the Koi-Koi nation. The Indian Ocean of Kwazulu Natal while seating on the beach in Durban. I will one day go experience the snows that I have heard about and will for sure enjoy it as It will be in my beloved country South Africa. The Eatsren Cape province where the national and the World Hero Tata Nelson Roihlahla Madiba Mandela was born, not forgetting the drive from King Williams Town to free state with the beutiful few of Nature. I will never forget my first flight to Cape Town and seeing the Table Mountain is one of the things I wll never forget and I will never forgive myself for not going to the Robben Island to witness the slavery zone where my heroes and heroines where kept because of the truth they had told.

I love South African and Africa is my home. I'm black proud and shall stand tall and say to all those who are racist - "Only God knows why we as blacks are in this world and not one should judge us". From the KKK in America to the black soccer palyers booers in Spain, I hope one day you will realize that black was a creation of GOD.

PEACE!!!

[SYDNEY]

:runaway:

[SYDNEY]

Note that blacks are a minority in both the Northern and Western Cape. Both provinces are predominantly Coloured. The ANC victories in both provinces in 2004 cannot possibly be attributed to the black vote alone. Many coloureds must have also voted ANC in those two provinces.

Anyway, I do not think things are as dire as some might say. I cannot really comment about any other provinces, but in Limpopo the economy and crime situation has improved over the last 10 years. Public Services, once non existent, are pretty good. Of course unemployment is as bad in Limpopo as it is anywhere in ZA right now, but considering just 10 years ago the Limpopo province was completely ignored as part of the Transvaal with the majority of the population working as farm hands on Afrikaaner farms, I think things are much better now. The economy has diversified and there are more Sotho and Venda people running businesses, instead labouring on farms.

I have just returned from The Garden Route (I spent 2 nights in Knysna) and all I can say is WOW ! It is hard to match this beauty.

There has been a rumour going around that The ANC bused in 1000's of black people from The Eastern Cape to The Western Cape with promises of housing and jobs. It was a political ploy to get more votes in The Western Cape and this can be proven by the narrow wins The ANC achieved.

I now believe the rumours. Just have a look at the growing shanty towns in places like Knysna, Plettenberg Bay, Mossel Bay, Cape Town etc. and you will see that people have been left to fend for themselves after they had voted for the ANC.

My trip was fantastic and Knysna has definitely re-invented itself but there is alot of tension in the air and people want answers as to why there is a growing squatter culture. It was shocking to see how big these shanty towns are and the filth is disgusting. An area like The Garden Route, scenic splendour and a haven for eco-tourism is slowly decaying under layers of filth.

These people should never have been brought to these towns - they are seasonal towns surviving on tourism - local residents barely survive and now they have the squatter problem to deal with. I was also told that most of the squatters have homes in The Eastern Cape but they are now trying to get houses in The Western Cape.

With regards to the coloureds ... The NP joined hands with the ANC and Patricia De Lille formed a new party - The Independent Democrats. This means that the majority of the coloureds voted for The ID which gave the DA less votes, resulting in an ANC win.

[SYDNEY]

WOW GANDALF about the newspaper i never saw a copy how did it get to the cape towner??? you should then also be in charge of media relations in cape towns olympic bid
!!

I sent a copy of my letter to all the newspapers and radio stations. The mayor has got to go. I am going to fight for it every day.

The Cape Argus also printed my letter and The Capetowner has printed 2 of my letters. I have also noticed that there is a letter dis-proving of the mayor on a daily basis now. We need to march through the streets of Cape Town - protest, protest !!! I am seeing The DA tomorrow (Monday) and I will let them have copies of my letters - I am hoping that they call for her resignation.

[SYDNEY]

:) :cheers:

[SYDNEY]

:runaway:

[Mo Rush]

lets change our focus to one that fights poverty and not the poor

[HirakataShi]

http://iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=139&art_id=vn20050130105500610C202690

Far from being a nation of whiners, South Africans are upbeat about the future, with 73 percent of people polled believing that 2005 was going to be a good year.

South Africa is currently on a wave of unprecedented optimism, says Research Surveys, and some of the reasons include the peaceful elections and successful inauguration of President Thabo Mbeki as president.

Also playing a part were the decade of democracy celebrations, good government service delivery and good economic conditions in 2004.

In the poll of 500 people with landline telephones in metropolitan areas, only 11 percent said they were pessimistic about 2005.

Respondents were asked: "Taking everything in your life into account, how optimistic or pessimistic are you feeling about 2005?"

Responses were: very optimistic - 31 percent; optimistic - 42 percent; neither optimistic nor pessimistic - 17 percent; pessimistic - seven percent; very pessimistic - four percent.


Notice the boldened area. People with landline telephones in metropolitan areas are more likely to be white, coloured and Asian than black.

[SYDNEY]

I too do not think things are as dire as some make them out to be...me and most of my friends have no intention of leaving the country anytime soon, and those that do only want to get some international working experience before returning home. I'm quite happy in Cape Town, and I think there are loads of opportunity in Jo'burg. Yes crime is a problem, but maybe it's sound sacrilege to say this, but I guess i've gotten used to it...I don't live in fear.

I've been involved with non-profits before as well, and I'm glad to see that Trevor Manuel has recommended opening up a large employment training fund to those that are unemployed (previously it was only for further training for those who already had jobs). I think this signals a shift in the ANC toward accepting and embracing the informal sector, as many vocational training programmes are geared toward this sector. As Manuel said in a speech last year, unemployment will not be reduced through formal employment in this country...the informal sector is key. I'm quite happy with the stance the ANC is taking on this issue, and it reflects some of the diverse interests that are involved in the political party (the labour unions, for one, would love to increase their membership by embracing the informal sector).

I'm still quite confidant that the South Africa in ten years time will have progressed significantly.

Oh, and Gandalff: I don't think some African mentality is a bad thing...there are many positive things that can be drawn from African culture. There are some negatives of course, but we can also draw up a list of negative things in European and Western culture. A bit of both the positive elements in African and Western mentality in SA doesn't hurt.

I agree with the following strategy:

'A home for all' must include the street children too:
January 31, 2005

The issues surrounding street children in Cape Town are emotive and highly complex, but the way we respond to them will in many ways define our character as a city.

The Independent Democrats are extremely concerned about not only the problem of street children but the street children themselves.

We are aware that there are many street children who are engaging in acts of violence and crime in the city. We also understand the police's frustration at not being able to effectively bring this problem under control.

The ID viewpoint on this issue is simply this: Whenever street children engage in criminal activity, the police have every right and, in fact, must arrest them.

We do not in any way condone criminal activity on the part of these children.

It must be accepted, however, that not all of these children engage in criminal activity and it would be prejudice to simply assume that.
It must also be recognised that these are still, after all, children, and in many cases children who have been horribly abused in their home environments.

The real solution to street children lies in tackling the pervasive problem of child abuse and the devastating poverty in the communities that these children come from.

Given that the government seems unable to address these challenges any time soon, we will also have to look at other ways to deal with the problem of street children.

These children are all our responsibility and we all have to put in the effort to find solutions to this problem.

As hard as it is working with these children, there are success stories, such as a friend who managed to get off the streets and is now gainfully employed in the movie industry.

For him to achieve this, however, it required an organisation working with him, healing him of his past abuse and finding employment opportunities for him.

This is a long, hard road but it is one that has to be followed if we are going to call ourselves a caring nation and put our children first.
While we completely understand the frustration of the police, simply rounding up the street children and taking them back to their homes is not going to solve this problem.

Most of them come from abusive homes and a policeman cannot adequately assess whether a home is abusive or not through just one visit.

While strong action must be taken on this issue, it cannot just be the police.

Social workers have to be involved and it was shocking not to find one social worker at the police station on that Thursday afternoon (January 20) when the police initiated the now infamous "operation clean-up".

The government has not dedicated enough resources to this problem as evidenced by the dismal lack of social workers in this field.

There are, however, some wonderful organisations who have achieved remarkable results with some of these children, and it is their expertise that needs to be consulted and utilised in any operations like these.

Most importantly though, it is the voice of the street children themselves who need to be heard on this issue, because they are the only ones who truly know the realities of what living on the street entails.

That is why the ID hosted the street children in parliament recently, so that the voice of the voiceless could finally be heard.

It was heartbreaking hearing about the abuse they suffer and the way small children are humiliated by security companies and police.
We also heard how some children had been empowered to get off the street and now lead productive lives.

It is these children who are our best hope of convincing others to follow their example and lead fulfilling lives.

These children have human rights just like any other South African.

While the frustration of the police is understandable, it is important to deal with this problem in the appropriate manner.

Social services, the police, civil society organisations and businesses all have a role to play in resolving this issue.

The ID is committed to working with all these stakeholders in finding solutions that respect human rights and show concern for these children.

Our intention is to consult widely on this issue and to involve as many people as possible.

I sometimes get the impression that the public has given up on this problem and feel that nothing can be done.

This, however, would be an insult to all the great work that is being done by some remarkable people across this city. It is a thankless job filled with frustrations and heartache.

I have been privileged enough to witness the commitment of these people and I am convinced that we can and will find workable solutions.

Only in this way can Cape Town truly call itself a caring city and the Western Cape give credence to its slogan "A home for all".


Greyling is an Independent Democrats MP.

[SYDNEY]

http://iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=139&art_id=vn20050130105500610C202690

Far from being a nation of whiners, South Africans are upbeat about the future, with 73 percent of people polled believing that 2005 was going to be a good year.

South Africa is currently on a wave of unprecedented optimism, says Research Surveys, and some of the reasons include the peaceful elections and successful inauguration of President Thabo Mbeki as president.

Also playing a part were the decade of democracy celebrations, good government service delivery and good economic conditions in 2004.

In the poll of 500 people with landline telephones in metropolitan areas, only 11 percent said they were pessimistic about 2005.

Respondents were asked: "Taking everything in your life into account, how optimistic or pessimistic are you feeling about 2005?"

Responses were: very optimistic - 31 percent; optimistic - 42 percent; neither optimistic nor pessimistic - 17 percent; pessimistic - seven percent; very pessimistic - four percent.


Notice the boldened area. People with landline telephones in metropolitan areas are more likely to be white, coloured and Asian than black.

Also notice that it is only 500 people - hardly a survey in my opinion.

[Pule]

Golden chance for SA's cities to score from 2010
1/31/2005

Business Day - Business Day

THE decision last year by soccer world body Fifa to award SA the right to host the 2010 World Cup has shifted the spotlight to our cities, and their ability and readiness to cope.

WORLD CUP/Udesh Pillay

THE decision last year by soccer world body Fifa to award SA the right to host the 2010 World Cup has shifted the spotlight to our cities, and their ability and readiness to cope. Although the event is still more than five years away, preliminary analysis of infrastructure and the ability to provide services has begun.

While opinion suggests that South African cities will be in a position to host the tournament successfully, consensus also suggests that much needs to be done.

SA is the first African nation to host such a big sporting event, prompting President Thabo Mbeki to pronounce that this is not a South African event, but an African one.

Much is expected from a host nation, and global attention has already started to focus on the opportunities and threats in such an ambitious undertaking, especially for a transitional democracy recovering from years of spatial, racial and political fragmentation.

Urban development and renewal have been identified by government as a key national imperative. As such, assessing the development implications of hosting the world cup, especially at a time when government's urban renewal strategy is (eventually) being finalised, becomes critical.

With urbanisation rates projected at 65% in five years, with the six big metropolitan economies currently contributing 63% of gross domestic product, and with service, infrastructure and income disparities widening in urban areas, any initiative aimed at stimulating economic growth and job creation needs to be carefully nurtured.

Hosting the 2010 World Cup has the potential to do precisely this.

It is surmised here that the next five-and-a-half years present SA with a unique opportunity to fasttrack development in our cities and large towns.

If a programme of action is well conceptualised and formulated, the spin-offs for our cities could be immeasurable. Major role players in development have recently recognised this opportunity, with the Industrial Development Corporation (IDC) leading the way by securing a 50m loan from the African Development Bank to "start boosting SA's (urban) infrastructure ahead of the 2010 World Cup".

The IDC has created a business unit catering specifically for the tournament and, together with the Development Bank of Southern Africa, has begun a thorough assessment of what infrastructure needs to be in place for the tournament, and how this can be sustained with maximum utility value.

Poorly conceptualised proposals in which decision-making is not democratically based, and in which growth, equity and sustainability principles are not seen as mutually reinforcing could have harmful consequences for our cities and their long -term future.

Mega events are often used as "spectacles" and, as such, are often seen as no more than public relations ventures far removed from the realities of urban problems.

"Welfarist" and equity-based considerations tend to be conspicuously absent.



Fortunately, drawing on the experience of countries in which there was opposition from marginalised communities who saw little material benefit from such events, and taking lessons from Cape Town's Olympic bid into account, SA's planners considered two elements to be vital.

First, the tournament has been conceived as a catalyst for improving the lives of the historically disadvantaged (this is meticulously spelt out in the bid blueprint); second, redesigning apartheid cities to create new functional links has become a central thrust.

Despite there being a very comprehensive and well-grounded bid plan which, in essence, lays the foundation for a substantial development agenda, it remains no more than a blueprint at present.

What is required among scholars and practitioners is the start of a robust debate that ensures that the work of the about-to-be-established local organising committee starts and is sustained on the basis on which the bid was conceived. The questions that are vital in informing such debate include the following:

What are the current capabilities of South African cities to host this event, and what is their state of readiness to do so?

In the run-up to the event, can urban development and renewal especially in the six major urban conurbations be fast-tracked, and how?

Is it possible that growth and equity issues become reinforcing concepts in a sustainable programme of urban development and renewal preceding the event?

How can a well-grounded programme of urban development (initiated before the

event) take root and be sustained well into the future, with multiple spin-offs for all city dwellers, in particular the poor and marginalised?

What are the public's perceptions of the effect that hosting the World Cup is likely to have on people's livelihoods?

How do we measure the potential of the Soccer World Cup to place South African cities in a global hierarchy of competitive metropolitan economies?

This list is not exhaustive, but as committed South Africans we need to start a process of constructive and responsible engagement at some level.

Vigorous public debate and informed scholarly analysis will provide direct insight and a nuanced understanding of the development consequences of hosting a massive sporting event.

As such, the basis for proactive planning to ensure maximum benefit for all South Africans, especially the poor and marginalised, is likely to take root.

Unique opportunities to fasttrack urban development in our cities and large towns are likely to ensue, with significant policy implications for how government starts thinking about city-wide renewal, development and regeneration strategies.

If this all comes together as planned, we may well see 400000 visitors in SA in 2010, a boost to the economy to the tune of R25bn, and the creation of 150000 jobs. The boost to national pride, and the potential to nurture a true South African identity, are also likely to be intangible but significant benefits.

Pillay is an executive director at the Human Sciences Research Council and an urban geographer by training. Under the auspices of the Urban Renewal and Development Unit, the HSRC, in collaboration with other partners, will begin such analysis in the coming months.

[SYDNEY]

Here's a very positive and exciting article - take the time to read it;

At the heart of it :

SA's major cities continue the trend towards central city rejuvenation facilitating a surge of growth, increased confidence and investment.

The process of inner city rejuvenation is a global trend, whereby cities undergo a natural evolution encompassing cycles of decline and growth with shifting levels of success. Both the inner cities of Cape Town and Johannesburg have seen frenzied development and investment during the past few years. There has not been as much development in Durban's inner city; however, it does seem to be joining in the national trend of converting ageing buildings in the city's Central Business District (CBD) into plush apartments.

Arguably the forerunner in SA's innercity-rejuvenation trend, Cape Town's CBD is fast becoming a much sought- after residential suburb. Ian Slot, MD of Seeff Atlantic Seaboard and City Bowl, says: "There are dramatic changes under way in Cape Town, with an unprecedented range of renovations, restorations and urban renewal projects happening in the city right now. Innovative developers and architects are bringing their vision of Cape Town as a 24-hour living city to life, and we at Seeff have had remarkable success in selling these developments.

"Our sales on developments and redevelopments in the city over the past 14 months have hit the R250m mark. The innovative developers that we have been working with have been creating properties of great style, quality and panache. There is a diversity of product on the market something for everybody, from stylish studio to spectacular penthouse.

"We are still going great guns at the moment in particular our developments on Greenmarket Square (Greenmarket Place and The Decks) have been generating tremendous interest. Greenmarket Place was 70% sold within 10 days, and The Decks is 80% sold and it only recently launched!"

Slot believes that Cape Town's CBD is taking off like the Waterfront did in the late 1980s, with the developers are showing a genuine commitment to bringing life and vibrancy to the city centre. He recommends that those who can possibly get in at entry-level on the CBD developments should grab the chance as it is really taking off in a big way.

Judging by the vision and foresight of the developers, architects and others helping sculpt and maintain a new cityscape and city living arena, Cape Town will soon take up its place as one of the world's leading urban regeneration success stories.

Says Andrew Golding, CE of the Pam Golding Property Group: "SA's Mother City of Cape Town is already enjoying considerable success, and attracting significant investment from local, national and international investors.

"Organisations such as the Cape Town Partnership, tourism bodies and the International Marketing Council have built an excellent infrastructure and platform for the city, further building on its many natural attractions such as Table Mountain, its proximity to the sea, historic buildings, vibrant street culture and world renowned wine estates."

During the past two years, and in Cape Town's central city, Pam Golding Properties has sold approximately R550m in new residential developments or re-developments resulting from the conversion of former office buildings into quality residential apartments.

These include Mutual Heights in Darling Street, Cartwright's Corner and The Adderley Hotel Suites in Adderley Street, and Perspectives in Roeland Street, 34 St Georges Mall and Mandela Rhodes Place. It excludes any re-sales in the central city or City Bowl areas.

Laurie Wener, Pam Golding Property's director and area manager says: "Demand for city apartments and city living remains high both from local and overseas purchasers.

"It is interesting to note that brisk resales have been predominantly to residential buyers, whose intention it is to live in the city, rather than investor purchasers."

As numerous historical landmarks are being re-developed into chic and trendy hotels and apartments, the city of Cape Town has undoubtedly entered a new era of cosmopolitan living incorporating both work and play, with a vibrant 24hour environment.

Similarly, Ronald Ennik, chief operating officer of Pam Golding Properties and MD of its Gauteng operations, points out that the breathtaking revitalisation, rejuvenation and effective re-birth of the once decayed and dilapidated inner city of Johannesburg is boosting the values of residential properties all around its fringes.

"After an in-depth look at all of the key aspects of the resurgence of the city, it is quite clear that the past fears of cityfringe homeowners of emerging ghettos on their doorstep are no longer founded in fact," says Ennik.

"On the contrary, residential properties in fringe suburbs such as Westcliff, Saxonwold, Houghton, and Linksfield in the north and east, and Robertsham in the south, are now not only attracting increased demand but are also showing significant growth in value. So much so that the entry level for Westcliff, for instance, is now about R7m.

"Johannesburg is beginning to go the way of New York and some of the major cities of Europe in the sense that both upmarket, higher income-focused, as well as high-density multi-unit, residential development, is taking place on an increasing scale in previously commercial and industrial space that has become vacant."

Ennik says more and more people are relocating to these inner city residential developments not only because of the convenience of living closer to their workplaces, but also because they offer an improved quality of life and a more diverse lifestyle that is widely appealing.

"From the point of view of the property owners, these residential conversions, some of which feature loft apartments, mezzanine levels and extensive use of skylights, will yield highvalue rentals.

"Johannesburg has a revitalised heartbeat and is increasingly presenting wonderful opportunities both to potential new inner city residents and to residential property investors who are bold and innovative," says Ennik.

Although lagging behind somewhat, Durban's inner city is in the process of catching up.

Patrick Maingard, MD of Pam Golding Franchise Services says: "In Durban the new Point Waterfront development is already starting to have a positive effect on property values in the Point, beachfront, Victoria Embankment and Esplanade areas, resulting in a higher demand for homes in those areas.

"The rejuvenation of Cape Town's inner city area has taken a leap forward with such re-developments that have added significant value to older buildings previously used as offices, thereby further enhancing the city's vibrant, hip image as a great place to live, work, shop and be entertained.

"Durban has significant and as yet untapped potential in this regard, and also has one of the highest concentrations of Art Deco buildings in SA, many of which are situated in the central city area and which also offer exciting redevelopment opportunities," says Maingard.

[dysan1]

Thought i'd take this oppotunity to raise the praise to Durban. And congratulate all those involved with the ushaka marine world project. The success of this development has got the worlds attention it seems and in so doing has managed to win an international award alongside disneyland!!!

" ushaka marine world takes the marine model to an entirely new level, by intergrating a natural marine coastal setting with their built entertainment environment in a development that sets new global standards. Ushaka suceeds where others have yet dared to go."

These are the words used to discribe the success of ushaka at the Themed Entertainment Association Thea Awards held in anaheim california, where ushaka marine world won the award for best marine park in the world at the 2005 awards ceremony.

And i just thought that it would help bring in the tourists. WOW. congratulations to all involved in making this special attraction

[SYDNEY]

SA violent crime 'far too high'
07/02/2005 23:51 - (SA)

Gordon's Bay - During the duration of a three-day conference at this seaside resort, 74 people in South Africa will be murdered.

So says Martin Schönteich, senior legal official at the Open Society Justice Initiative in New York, who spoke on Monday at the opening of a national conference on crime and justice.

The conference is being presented by the Centre for the Study of Violence and Reconciliation.

Ten years after South Africa became a democracy, the country still has an annual murder figure of 42.7 per 100 000 people, according to this organisation's reading of official statistics.

This figure dropped from a high of 67.9 in 1995/'96.

Schönteich said: "Why it dropped, we don't know. The ideal is to have this figure at 20 per 100 000 by 2014.

[clive330]

a 3 day total for SA is more like 165. probably good for SA's image that he doesnt know arithmetic.

[hsark]

have u ever wonder that the next highrise structure in sa may not be a building or tower

Competition guidelines for the Statue of Freedom include a design that is 100 m high – more than twice the size of the Statue of Liberty, a construction price of about R50-million, and should be situated where the harbour meets the beach at its most seaward point.

These are merely guidelines and it is possible that the competition winner will come up with a different concept that may be less costly and smaller in size.

One of the most publicised ideas has been for a 100-m-tall aluminium space-frame tetrahedron representing the suffering of the South African nation, says Voges. However, this is merely a suggestion and the entries will be adjudicated in terms of the set criteria. Another concept which was brought to the fore during the project’s inception about six years ago was a 55-m-high figure of Nelson Mandela with his right arm extended in the air, and his left arm holding a copy of a large book symbolising his ‘Long Walk to Freedom’.
http://www.thefreedomstatue.com/images/top/top_r1_c3.gifhttp://www.thefreedomstatue.com/images/image_gallery/26_large.jpg

[clive330]

Ack - that Nelson Mandela statue sounds like a Stalin / Saddam Hussein / dictator personality cult statue.

What harbour is that above?

[clive330]

Yay for Durban: read on:

Durban gets tough on begging

Human rights commission criticises move
February 8, 2005

By Philani Makhanya

More than 100 children and adults begging at Durban's intersections are to be rounded up, and parents who force their children to beg will face child abuse charges.

The municipality's bylaw enforcement machinery is moving into top gear as concerns grow that street begging is getting out of control, especially in the Durban central business district where hijackers and bag snatchers are using beggars to conceal their presence.

However, the Chairman of the SA Human Rights Commission, Jody Kollapen, has criticised the arrests of indigent people for begging, saying this is not a sustainable solution to poverty and unemployment.

The first phase of the eThekwini Municipality-led operation to drive beggars off the streets was launched last year. It involved issuing beggars with birth certificates and identity documents required to apply for child support grants for their children.

More than 100 beggars now receive social grants and food parcels from the Department of Social Welfare, eliminating the need for them to beg.

The clampdown on street beggars undertaken by the Johannesburg Metro Police last week triggered angry reactions from the Human Rights Commission, which accused the police of punishing people for being poor.

However, the facilitator of the Durban Safer Cities Project, Luvuyo Goniwe, told The Mercury yesterday he was confident the city had exhausted all avenues to avoid any backlash.


"We have done everything in our power to assist street beggars, and most children are now receiving social grants because of our intervention.

"Unfortunately, this has not stopped others from going back to their old ways," said Goniwe.

He said the next step would be a joint operation between the Durban Metro Police, the SA Police Service and the Social Welfare Department.

"We will now concentrate on arresting and charging parents with child abuse for forcing children to beg. Child abuse charges are more serious than the violation of the city's bylaws.

"We have been working closely with officials from the Family Court, who have agreed to help place children in places of safety when their parents get arrested," he said.

Kollapen said arresting beggars was a quick-fix solution.

"It appears the City of Durban has done something to sort out the problem of child beggars, but their plan falls short when it comes to adult beggars, who do not qualify for any social grants.

"We cannot deal with issues of poverty and unemployment by putting poor people in jail. We need to provide people with alternatives," said Kollapen.

makhanya@nn.independent.co.za

[SA BOY]

clive thats PE , I was there last year easter and stayed the night . wow what a dump reminds me of newcaste or wollonggong. A industial port and very decaying CBD, has much density but looks so run down and they are trying to move the city over the hill and up to greenachers.
Hopefully the massive investment and development at Coega (20min up the road) will spur this city into life again

[hsark]

thats sweet for durbs getting street kids off the streets brings down crime a lot it also makes the place feel safer and better :) now if only our own mayor can do the same thing

[SYDNEY]

thats sweet for durbs getting street kids off the streets brings down crime a lot it also makes the place feel safer and better :) now if only our own mayor can do the same thing

Our Mayor will proabbly invite all those rejected in Durbs and Jo'burg to set up shop here ... I am meeting with "somebody" at 14H00 today to formulate a plan to get her out of Cape Town .. hold thumbs ..

CT's Mayor has also contributed to the following article -

BEE 'may lead to instability'
09/02/2005 09:31 - (SA)

Cape Town - The absence of broad-based black ownership of the South African economy may lead to economic insecurity and possibly even political instability, says Inkatha Freedom Party leader Mangosuthu Buthelezi.

Speaking at the Cape Town Club, he said in a prepared speech released to the media that black economic empowerment in South Africa had been given a bad press, but the "stark fact" was that of the R42bn worth of BEE deals so far, R25bn or about 60% had gone to two oligarchs in the African National Congress.

He did not name them.

Buthelezi, who served as Home Affairs Minister in the post- democracy cabinet from 1994 until he was dropped in April last year, said: "We do need BEE for the reason that the majority of South Africans only hold political, but not yet economic power.

"I believe that the absence of broad-based black ownership might result in political alienation, economic insecurity and, possibly, even political instability.

"It is how this government goes about empowering blacks that is wrong.

"BEE, in my view, must be achieved within the constraints of maintaining market integrity and attracting foreign direct investment," he said.

He suggested the government give opportunities to companies that comply with social transformation requirements and on their ability to add commercial value to the business.

"Potential conflicts of interests must be avoided and BEE transactions must be weighed against the long-term objective of broadening ownership of the South African economy.

"On any other terms, BEE will not succeed."

Buthelezi said the "ever present disjuncture" in government thinking - with Cosatu's left-leaning economic positions on the one hand and the more conservative GEAR on the other - was borne out by the "uncomfortable fact" that people who were not part of the mainly urban, modern sector of society were more disadvantaged now then they were under apartheid.

He said a "heart and head split" in government thinking was also expressed "in its reluctance to develop standard anti-trust and a pro-competition legislation to break the grip of our private and public cartels and monopolies on our economy".

"Our bank charges, for example, are amongst the highest in the world. What incentive is there for poor people to place their money into bank accounts?

"Yet without banking facilities, people do not have access to loans to purchase property or start their own small businesses.

"These are the prerequisites of a functioning market economy, from Chile to New Zealand, and from New Zealand to Estonia.

"The latter has one of the lowest rates of taxation in the world," said Buthelezi, whose party has 28 seats in the 400 seat National Assembly and is junior partner in government in the KwaZulu Natal province.

[Pule]

Our Mayor will proabbly invite all those rejected in Durbs and Jo'burg to set up shop here ... I am meeting with "somebody" at 14H00 today to formulate a plan to get her out of Cape Town .. hold thumbs ..

CT's Mayor has also contributed to the following article -

BEE 'may lead to instability'
09/02/2005 09:31 - (SA)

Cape Town - The absence of broad-based black ownership of the South African economy may lead to economic insecurity and possibly even political instability, says Inkatha Freedom Party leader Mangosuthu Buthelezi.

Speaking at the Cape Town Club, he said in a prepared speech released to the media that black economic empowerment in South Africa had been given a bad press, but the "stark fact" was that of the R42bn worth of BEE deals so far, R25bn or about 60% had gone to two oligarchs in the African National Congress.

He did not name them.

Buthelezi, who served as Home Affairs Minister in the post- democracy cabinet from 1994 until he was dropped in April last year, said: "We do need BEE for the reason that the majority of South Africans only hold political, but not yet economic power.

"I believe that the absence of broad-based black ownership might result in political alienation, economic insecurity and, possibly, even political instability.

"It is how this government goes about empowering blacks that is wrong.

"BEE, in my view, must be achieved within the constraints of maintaining market integrity and attracting foreign direct investment," he said.

He suggested the government give opportunities to companies that comply with social transformation requirements and on their ability to add commercial value to the business.

"Potential conflicts of interests must be avoided and BEE transactions must be weighed against the long-term objective of broadening ownership of the South African economy.

"On any other terms, BEE will not succeed."

Buthelezi said the "ever present disjuncture" in government thinking - with Cosatu's left-leaning economic positions on the one hand and the more conservative GEAR on the other - was borne out by the "uncomfortable fact" that people who were not part of the mainly urban, modern sector of society were more disadvantaged now then they were under apartheid.

He said a "heart and head split" in government thinking was also expressed "in its reluctance to develop standard anti-trust and a pro-competition legislation to break the grip of our private and public cartels and monopolies on our economy".

"Our bank charges, for example, are amongst the highest in the world. What incentive is there for poor people to place their money into bank accounts?

"Yet without banking facilities, people do not have access to loans to purchase property or start their own small businesses.

"These are the prerequisites of a functioning market economy, from Chile to New Zealand, and from New Zealand to Estonia.

"The latter has one of the lowest rates of taxation in the world," said Buthelezi, whose party has 28 seats in the 400 seat National Assembly and is junior partner in government in the KwaZulu Natal province.

I'm holding thumbs up for you guys and on the other hand that is one stamement where Buthelezi just made sense and I agree with him fully. BEE is not a bad thing, but how is run is what matters.

[SYDNEY]

Crime rate is 'dropping':
13/02/2005 08:26 - (SA)

Johannesburg - The crime rate is falling, and it is not only the police and the government that say so.

Information from the country's insurance industry indicates that there are now fewer claims for losses due to housebreaking and car theft.

On Friday President Thabo Mbeki told parliament that the crime wave was waning.

To date, 168 of the country's top 200 criminals had been arrested. The murder rate fell by 8%, car theft by 5.4% and robbery by 5.9%.

Mbeki received support from three of the biggest short-term insurers - Mutual and Federal, Outsurance and SA Eagle - when they published their very favourable company results this past week.

The reason? Their favourable results reflect the fact that the number of insurance claims resulting from car theft, hijackings and house-breaking fell markedly during the past year - in some cases by 33%.

The figures - independent of official police and government statistics - show that the tide is turning against criminals.

The CEO of Outsurance, Willem Roos, said claims for losses incurred due to theft had dropped by between 15% and 30%.

[SYDNEY]

Time to vote - Jozi vs Durbs vs iKapa

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p=3302520#post3302520

[SYDNEY]

The cheek of it - go and check this out for a good laugh ...

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p=3305898#post3305898

[dysan1]

some people actually know nothing, but still want to have an opinion it seems... (about the people on the link)... god help them in general knowledge

[datilguy]

For downtown Albuquerque:

35,000 people live in downtown
100,000 people commute daily to work and play in downtown
Downtown Albuquerque was voted the best downtown in America in 2002
Investment growth 45%
over 200 nightclubs and restauraunts and cafes
the Plaza- a cultural and entertainment hub
more than 50 annual cultural events drawing more than 250,000 people per year
a HUGE convention center that sees more than 150 conventions and 500,000 people per year making ABQ the fifth largest convention destination in the country
Historic and world-class theaters
The third best zoo in the nation
65 million dollars in construction
Major projects include:
The Albuquerque Museum expansion 6.5 million
The Natural History museum expansion 4.5 million
The Alvarado Central Station - Hub of ABQ's brand new(u/c) metro system
Countless office and residential upgrades, conversions and new projects
the Embassy Hotel 16 floors
Gateway center 20 floors?
and a proposed skyscraper 596 foot headquarters for Intel (proposed)
a new stadium is under construction (capacity 16,000)

[dysan1]

Guys another everyone against south thread has opened up... mexico vs Sa this time... we need more SA voices

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=182543

[dysan1]

oh and another one asking to name the best skyline in africa

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=182874

[clive330]

Durbanites - can we get some pictures of some completed space-agey looking buildings from Durban metro? Like all those swoopy buildings on Umhlanga ridge?

Our CBD pics appear big, but somewhat tired and old and it'd be nice to show we have actually built stuff in the last 10 years, even if its in the form of the evil of office parks.

Ditto for other cities.

[dysan1]

got some beauties to put up. just gotta load them up. have about 300pics of umhlanga! and got some awesome new shots of the cbd from musgrave area. Amazing looking, with the green green grass of greyville in front and the buildings shining in all their glory.

ps there are already some umhlanga pics posted in the durbs thread :)

[dysan1]

Thought this may paint a clearer picture than what i had to say :)

Top award for ushaka

The Themed Entertainment Association (Thea), recently awarded uShaka MARINE WORLD, a Proudly South African member, for Outstanding Achievement in creative design and theming. This award presented in California , puts the Durban venue in the premier league of international attractions.

The CEO of uShaka MARINE WORLD Russell Stevens and Councillor Nomusa Dube, Speaker of the eThekwini Municipality were at the glittering event in Los Angeles to receive the award on behalf of the people of Durban . The Thea awards are the equivalent of the Oscars in the theme park industry.

Out of 200 applicants fifteen categories were awarded and uShaka MARINE WORLD received an award for excellence in creative design and theming in the category of Marine parks.

Speaking at the event, Councillor Nomusa Dube said, "This is an award for the theme park we have created as a city in partnership with the business people of eThekwini and our partners who are managing for us. It is a wonderful opportunity for the city, for the country as well. We're extremely excited about it."

The excellence that has been recognised by the Thea Committee is a result of a successful private /public partnership which involved talented individuals and organisations that are passionate about Durban as well as their work. These include Tony de Freitas of the South African Association for Marine Biological Research, Neels Brink of the Durban Point Development Company, Mike Fraser and Nick Webb of Mirage Leisure Projects, Charlie White of Olio Productions, the parties that formed the development team the Mpophoma Joint Venture and other tireless teams of professionals, artists and administrators.

The city as part of its vision to regenerate the Point and Beach front areas embarked upon a development plan which saw uShaka MARINE WORLD built as a catalyst for the economic upliftment within the area. Although the transformation of the Point precinct is far from over, uShaka MARINE WORLD has already transformed the landscape of the city’s beach front and has placed Durban back on the tourism map for both domestic and international tourists.

“We are proud to be the custodians of this magnificent marine park. Our role now is to ensure that uShaka MARINE WORLD remains world class by providing excellent service to all our guests. This award challenges us to compete with the best theme parks in the world and so far our management team and staff have worked tirelessly to make sure we remain at the top of the game,” says Russell Stevens Chief Operating Officer uShaka MARINE WORLD.

The award winning designs that have won uShaka MARINE WORLD, this honour are also a celebration of the rich culture and heritage of the city as well as the region of KwaZulu Natal.

The Phantom Ship which is the icon of the park, represents the history of the Port of Durban which is one of the biggest ports on the African continent. The coast of Durban was one of the treacherous routes in history, hence the shipwreck.
The Village Walk, the retail area, with its earthy mix of natural and modern materials depicts a bustling African market. The design using open spaces, thatch and mosaics celebrates the artistic heritage of our people.
Wet ’n Wild water park is the “fun in the sun” area where Durban residents as well as guests and visitors can enjoy the enviable climate while enjoying great sea views.
SeaWorld which houses the fifth largest aquarium in the world boasts more than 200 species of sea life abundant in our coast line. Our most popular inhabitant is Gambit the 30 old dolphin that is the largest dolphin in any oceanarium in the world. Gambit and other dolphins are enjoyed by visitors from all over the country at the 1200-seater dolphin stadium.
Architects, designers and other experts have designed and delivered a magnificent piece of work and now thousands of visitors from all over the country have got a world-class facility where they experience the best of Durban.

[dysan1]

oh and since the durban takeover continues.... :) thought i'd point you all to the ROT page, where various images of the Durban Hilton are up for the vote. I know you all know what it looks like, but give the foreign folk a few comments for goodwill purposes :) thank ya

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=184061

[datilguy]

"I LOVE SOMEBODY IN CAPE TOWN! They were really pissed that I was a Blue Bulls fan, so to prove my love, GO STORMERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[datilguy]

WHOO-WHOO! I LOVE THE STORMERS!!!!!!!! THEY ROCK!!!

[dysan1]

ummmm... ok then matey...

[sa-dreamer]

hey everyone, since this is the skybar/shebeen, where is Joburg?

Busy with studies? I think we all can relate that he is missed! Hopefully he is doing well.. Maybe he is out and about getting us those Joburg suburb pictures!!! ;)

[SYDNEY]

A quick update ... my boyfriend has been accepted to practice dentistry in Perth and The Government of Western Australia will issue us with our official papers in 6 months time. Come December 2005 I will be an Aussie. We will live in Perth (maybe Mandurah) for 2 Years and then we will move to Melbourne ... stepping stones ;)

I am so excited that I want to jump out of my skin.

[sa-dreamer]

any celebratory intercourse to go along with it? ;)

[SYDNEY]

any celebratory intercourse to go along with it? ;)

Let's just say that I am raw ;) and suffering from a HUGE hangover :)

[joburg]

Did you go to pride yesterday Gandalf?

hey everyone, since this is the skybar/shebeen, where is Joburg?

Joburg has been very busy chasing boys and indulging in cosmopolitans... :kiss:

As for photos... I know I've been promising but this time I'll really promise. hehe. :)

[clive330]

A quick update ... my boyfriend has been accepted to practice dentistry in Perth and The Government of Western Australia will issue us with our official papers in 6 months time. Come December 2005 I will be an Aussie. We will live in Perth (maybe Mandurah) for 2 Years and then we will move to Melbourne ... stepping stones ;)

I am so excited that I want to jump out of my skin.

Well enjoy Melbourne. I am outa here quite soon...

[dysan1]

Joburg has been very busy chasing boys and indulging in cosmopolitans... :kiss:

So catch any :)

[joburg]

So catch any :)


Oh now and again.. :D

[dysan1]

:) good for you matey... we all like to hook and reel them in on occassion... esp if there is a good cocktail/champs involved :)

[clive330]

This thread http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=185700
has a comparison of wages in many different cities of the world. It would appear that Johannesburg has the highest wages of any indisputably developing country, and its wages are higher than Singapore! Study dated 2005.

Zurich = 100.

Seoul 31.9 (Is this REALLY in a developing country?)
Tel Aviv 31.3 (Is this REALLY in a developing country?)
Taipei 33.3 (Is this REALLY in a developing country?)
Dubai 33.1 (Is this REALLY in a developing country?)
Hong Kong 31.2 (Is this REALLY in a developing country?)
Singapore 26.2 (Is this REALLY in a developing country?) <-- lower than Joburg!

Johannesburg 26.5
Istanbul 24.1
Ljubjana 19.6
Budapest 18.3
Moscow 16.9
Santiago de Chile 16.3
Sao Paulo 15.1
Kuala Lumpur 15.0
Prague 13.9
Riga 13.3
Warsaw 12.8

[joburg]

I wonder if they took into account all those squater dwellers, who make up a very large proportion of Joburg's work force. Or should that be Joburg's very large unemployed force?

I don't think that survey is very accurate at all, because they wouldn't have taken into account our informal sector - cash under the table - which I think is quite big compared to our formal sector.

[clive330]

The survey is sure to be based on official figures which means it DOESNT take into account unemployed (obviously as they dont earn official salaries) or people in the informal sector.

Remember there are a lot of people in Joburg earning some pretty serious money. Professional salaries are not really lower than most developed world countries (dont use London for comparison - its wages are FAR above the UK and EU average). With SA's unions and the recovery of the rand, I would say that official, paid employment wages are quite good compared to other developing countries.

Singapore is clean and organised, but the average SIngaporean doesnt exactly strike it rich with their garage sized apartment and some clearly pretty low paid work...

[Awkab]

Plus Singapore has a very organised bureaucracy that goes along with their very organised society. Low-paying jobs here in SA that are normally taken up by the informal sector are formal (but still low-paying jobs) in Singapore. The only difference is that in Singapore these jobs get counted in the survey.

[dysan1]

BIG BIG NEWS.... on the Durban Thread!!! The next phase has begun...

[SYDNEY]

City heading for gridlock:
March 4, 2005

"Capetonians have to face the fact that Cape Town is no longer South Africa's sleepy city - it's a bustling metropolis that has nearly reached its saturation point," a senior city official said yesterday.

The City of Cape Town has grown exponentially within the last decade, and so has its traffic. But it will get worse before it gets better, the official said.

Thousands of motorists can testify to getting stuck on the N1, N2, M3, M5 and N7 coming into the city every morning, while roadworks and problems with public transport exacerbate the problem.

While the city's population and vehicles increase by about 3% a year, compounding, the City of Cape Town is seeking new and innovative solutions with limited resources.

From 2002 to 2004 greater Cape Town, which stretches as far as Stellenbosch and Gordon's Bay, has seen an estimated 13 150 new vehicles registered, according to the National Association of Automobile Manufacturers of SA (Naamsa) and Response Group Trendline.

In 2004, a 19.97% increase in licensing of new vehicles was recorded in Cape Town, compared with an increase of 19.58% in 2003 since 2002, according to statistics firm Response Group Trendline.

Cape Town ranks as the city with the third highest registration of new vehicles. Pretoria showed the highest increase from 2003 to 2004 at 26.12%, while Johannesburg and Soweto had a registration increase of 24.74% in the same period.

According to Cape Town traffic planner Ron Haiden an estimated 800 000 vehicles, including light, medium and heavy motor vehicles and buses, were registered in greater Cape Town (excluding Stellenbosch and Wellington) in 2004.

Half of the road users in Cape Town use public transport, while the other half use private vehicles.

Beside motor vehicle sales, Cape Town traffic is also placed under pressure by the number of motorists who under-utilise their vehicles by driving alone into and out of the city, only during rush hour.

Traffic jams in turn force motorists to do "rat runs" on alternative routes, putting additional pressure on roads that were not designed for heavy traffic, a city official said yesterday.

A study conducted last year by the City of Cape Town determined that only 10-15% of drivers use their vehicles throughout the day in the central business district, while the rest park their cars in the city until they go home in the evening.

"We can't afford to have so many single passenger vehicles in the city," city council strategic adviser on transport, roads and stormwater Frank van der Velde.

Traffic statistician Hein Coetzee yesterday said Cape Town is experiencing a boom in traffic which is comparable to other major cities in South Africa in terms of its size, but that the geography of the city is placing particular pressure on its traffic flows.

"The mountains and sea create barriers, which force traffic to be funnelled from the outskirts into the central business district," he said.

Traffic congestion is exacerbated by major new property developments in areas like Blouberg, Parklands and Plattekloof, which dramatically increase the volume of vehicles on Marine Drive, Koeberg Road and the N1, says Van der Velde.

"We can't keep on increasing the road infrastructure, because it won't solve our problems with space and population. Simply widening roads begets more cars," Van der Velde said.

"It would cost the city R300 000 to R400 000 to improve the infrastructure on the Koeberg interchange or the Kromboom Parkway, and the city's capital budget amounts to R400 000 a year.

"To fix up the Northern Corridor a total of around R760 000 is needed. Of course that only counts for the northern suburbs. The southern suburbs need to be considered as well," he said.

According to Haiden it costs the city R4-6 million per km to build a two-lane road.

"We simply don't have enough money to spend on infrastructure. Only 40% of the government's R11.1 fuel levy is ploughed back into transport, the rest is pure tax. Government is severely underspending on transport.

Province also spends a fraction of their licence fees on maintaining the transport system," Haiden said yesterday.

Van der Velde believes the city soon won't be able to contain all the vehicles travelling into the CBD, unless an inventive long-term public transport solution is found.

Acting director of Cape Town Transport, Roads and Stormwater, Maddie Mazaza, yesterday confirmed that the once full-fare paying passengers on public transport are now partially subsidised, but are not seeing the benefits.

"If you take the bus, you are still stuck in the same traffic," she said.

But solutions are being sought to create alternative lanes for buses and minibus taxis.

"At the moment we're looking at short-term solutions like contra-flow bus lanes, whereby we can make use of under-utilised traffic lanes, while benefiting large numbers of commuters," said Van der Velde.

Naamsa announced on Monday that national new vehicle sales were 32.4% higher in February than in the same month last year.

According to a Naamsa spokesperson, the figures from this period for South Africa's big cities has not yet been broken down.

According to Naamsa, in-creased vehicle sales since January can be attributed to positive consumer and business sentiment, stable interest rates and stability in the prices of new vehicles.

A city official yesterday said a variety of economic factors impact on the increased traffic, including low interest rates, the steady growth of the middle class, black empowerment and the resultant suburban concentration.

According to a senior city official, the greatest problem Cape Town faces is a lack of public transport.

"Although we have trains and buses, we have problems with availability and security. Public transport is not readily available everywhere, at all hours of the day, while commuters are also becoming afraid for their safety," he said.

According to the city official, instructions have been given to the city council to determine how an integrated transport authority, combining train, bus, flight and other schedules, can be set up.

Effective transport authorities have been created in Durban and
Johannesburg.

Haiden, however, says one of the major problems with Cape Town traffic is institutional fragmentation in the planning and decision-making structures of the transport system.

"We have the city, the province and various councils, all with separate budgets. Although we talk to each other, we have no managing director," he said.

According to traffic officials and statisticians, public funds need to be allocated more effectively to improve public transport and transport authorities' severe skills shortages need to be addressed.

"We need one main source of revenue and we need to charge users proportionately to the hours they spend on the road and their fuel efficiency," said Haiden.

"A fuel levy system is fairer than a toll system."

[Pule]

Guys, I'm sorry I couldn't post pictures that I captured about 3 weeks ago, but the reason is that I was off-sick with meningitis infection but today I'm feeling better and will try by all means to post.

[SYDNEY]

Guys, I'm sorry I couldn't post pictures that I captured about 3 weeks ago, but the reason is that I was off-sick with meningitis infection but today I'm feeling better and will try by all means to post.

WOW ... that's serious Pule. I hope that you feel A1 again soon. Welcome back.

[dysan1]

Personally i believe that te source of all your traffic problems in Cape Town is the really really crap roads that you have there!!! Your highways have so few lanes, the one heading to the southern suburbs should not even be classed as a highway! I believe who ever designed the cape town system should take a long hard look at the highways around durban. our network is definately the best in the country and is designed for ease of use. Your routes converge and disperse in the most confusing manner, which doesnt help driving conditions. And the fact that there is basically only two entry point to the city centre doesnt help matters at all. esp that horrible convergence near the groote schuur hospital! AHHHH.

[SYDNEY]

Personally i believe that te source of all your traffic problems in Cape Town is the really really crap roads that you have there!!! Your highways have so few lanes, the one heading to the southern suburbs should not even be classed as a highway! I believe who ever designed the cape town system should take a long hard look at the highways around durban. our network is definately the best in the country and is designed for ease of use. Your routes converge and disperse in the most confusing manner, which doesnt help driving conditions. And the fact that there is basically only two entry point to the city centre doesnt help matters at all. esp that horrible convergence near the groote schuur hospital! AHHHH.

I can't agree more ... what about one lane on-ramps and off-ramps. The West Coast area is the fastest growing area in Africa and there is still only a one lane on-ramp onto the N1 into the city and one lane on-ramp off the N1 .... don't expect this too change in a hurry .. Mfeketo is in control .... HA HA

[Pule]

WOW ... that's serious Pule. I hope that you feel A1 again soon. Welcome back.

Thanx man, but I'm feeling very better now...Otherwise enjoy Perth...

[mike2005]

Gandalf you should feel ashamed of yourself. I have moved from London to CPT and I think we must live in a different city. Yes you have decided to leave but for gods sake get over yourself, you are making out the fact that you are some kind of martyr. Yes there is crime in cape townj but there is all over the world. Yes there is bad traffic but nothing compared to say London or New York which are both cities I have lived in. Yes there are street kids and muggings but the situation is not as bad as you make out at all, I live work and shop in the CBD and have NEVER been mugged in over a year. Last week I went to visit familly in London and was mugged on the second day of my visit. South Africa is not perfect but you are probably just too boring and unimaginative to want to live in a place as interesting and vibrant as Cape Town. Shame on you. Please just leave and I am sure SA will be better off without a negative person such as you. One more thing please stop being so racist about the mayor. yes she is not great but to leave the country because of her shows you are not a true south african and frankly makes you seem very very racist.

[SYDNEY]

Gandalf you should feel ashamed of yourself. I have moved from London to CPT and I think we must live in a different city. Yes you have decided to leave but for gods sake get over yourself, you are making out the fact that you are some kind of martyr. Yes there is crime in cape townj but there is all over the world. Yes there is bad traffic but nothing compared to say London or New York which are both cities I have lived in. Yes there are street kids and muggings but the situation is not as bad as you make out at all, I live work and shop in the CBD and have NEVER been mugged in over a year. Last week I went to visit familly in London and was mugged on the second day of my visit. South Africa is not perfect but you are probably just too boring and unimaginative to want to live in a place as interesting and vibrant as Cape Town. Shame on you. Please just leave and I am sure SA will be better off without a negative person such as you. One more thing please stop being so racist about the mayor. yes she is not great but to leave the country because of her shows you are not a true south african and frankly makes you seem very very racist.

The word is - evolved. At least I am pro-active and not sitting with my head in the sand. This city has changed alot in the last year and not for the better. Good luck with your corrupt Mayor and "vibrant" streets. Give me sanitation, give me the first world, give me clean streets, give me law & order and I will be very happy. I am not ashamed at all, I am out-spoken and I will definitely be burning my South African passport when I arrive in the first world .. so you are right, I am not a true South African.

For the rest .. piss off !

[mike2005]

:bash: Everyone has to be realistic about crime. If I were going to LA or New York I would ask the same questions as I have been about Durbs. I cant believe you think litter/bad driving/muggings only happen cape town and that is because its 'african' (for that read black) Have you EVER been to LA/London/Berlin/Rome/Paris/New York? They are equally dirty if not more so than CPT. In fact I took a stroll down St Georges Mall and didnt see any litter and suprise suprise didnt get mugged!!! Then I took a relaxing stroll to De\Waterkant and yes Iam still here and so is my wallet!!! To say things such as you are going to burn your SA passport is just crap. As for your friend who bought a house and left after three weeks, I find that so hard to believe. I have 5 friends from London who are brits and now have houses in the capeand love it. Again I guess you are very bitter person and determined to run down a country cos you are secretly so sad you are leaving. If you hate SA so much please dont come back to this forum, instead go to one of those bitter and pathetic Ex pat sites. Please this is a forum for those who LOVE SA and want to celebrate its progress, not one for those who want to run it down at every oppertunity.

[dysan1]

too true.

all along i have admired your stance and opinions gandalf, but frankly you have now taken things too far. You honestly must live in dream world if you think life elsewhere will be SOOOO much better. I hope you find what you are looking for, but honestly i dont think you will ever find it, no matter where you go. For a person to change like you have, signals that there is something more bitter about your decision than you let out.

And that you're "pro-active", while we're "sitting with our heads in the sand". God dammit boy get a grip, this world aint just about YOU. While you may think you're pro-active, you're actually running away.

And burn your history, your past and your bridges? Not the wisest thing one can do in life. Everything is about karma, what you give, you recieve. To denounce your south africaness is to remove your identity. You'll never be an australian or a new zealander, you'll always be an outsider to them. and because you dont want to believe this is your home, cos things here have not happened the way YOU want them to happen, nevermind what others think, you will have no true home.

I feel you for you, i really do. for it is not us who have our heads in the sand my friend, it is you.

[Mo Rush]

now i dont at the age of 18 to be an expert in the way cities should be run and the state of cities but ive been lucky enough to have been to a quite a few cities, and in comparison i am grateful im in cape town, NYC, LA have similar crimes statistics, let us know you where you have been then let us know what you are comparing cape town, YES indeed our mayor is not perfect, and neither is cape town, but your issues with the city seem to be more internal than external...

[waustralia]

I disagree with you dysan1. If gandalf moves to say, Australia or NZ. Gandalf wont lose Gandalfs South African identity. Gandalf will always know that Gandalf is South African. Gandalf wont be an outsider. Australia/NZ welcomes emigrants, and Gandalf will become one of us, but still hold onto Gandalfs Original South African Identity.

And, woh that sounded munt. Gandalf knows who Gandalf is, wtf. I put Gandalf everywere because I have yet to find out if this Gandalf is a guy or a girl?

[waustralia]

Okay. I read through the board, and Gandalf is a dude, dah. I cant be bothered changing my above post though.

[dysan1]

mate i'm saying that he says he thru with sa, and wants to burn his id! therefore he is saying that he wants to delete the fact that he's south african.

I have many people i know living in perth and brisbane and they say that yes the aussies are friendly, but that they are not accpeted as part of the community as australians, but as south africans. Who will gandalf be if he says he's not south african? any way i'm over this, as long he stops with the wingeing!!!

:)

[dysan1]

but besides all the crap of the last few days, he has been a real great guy on these forums, always informative and great with his leads... its a pity he's leaving and so against everything. I have no problem with people leaving, i mean i have lived in so many places that i could be a nomad! But i leave for my family wanted to move on. Now that i'm settled here in durban, this will be my base, but travelling will never stop.

If gands had toned down his attck, i dont think the reactions would have been so vehement. Maybe it was just his feelings of hopelessness and his real passion for ct that lead to the attack, for knows things can be so much better... :)

[datilguy]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Ditto.

Gandalf, your a great guy and have really brought this forum together.
But if CT is this seemingly detrimental to your happiness u should leave.
Best of luck in Perth.

[mike2005]

I guess we have all got a bit emotional about the whole thing. Gandalf do what you think is right. I love CPT and see a great future. I guess it is about perception: I see improvement you see decline. I used to visist CPT all the time before I moved here and give me CPT 2005 over CPT 2002 any day, and for me that is a sign of a city on the up. I took your advice and drove through Obs yesterday. Yes there was a loyt of litter but I advise you to take a drive through Hackney in London or Harlem in New York. There too you will see lovely old building s surrounded by litter. I can assure you that once you have lived overseas then you will come to understand what makes CPT such a great place to live in. By all means go, but DONT burn your bridges by making statements such as 'Iam going to burn my passport'. Iam sure you can understand why such statements really really piss off loyal South Africans who want to stay, and please please stop running down the country to justify your decision. When I decided to leave London and Oxford to come to CPT I never slagged off Britain once, I just decided to move to a place I loved and knew very very well (my sister was born in South Africa, so too was my father and both my parents and sisiter now live in CPT)

I wish you all the best in Aus and Iam sure you will be back in this amazing country before you know it.

P.S: How many times have you been to Aus/ NZ before?

[SYDNEY]

City of Pretoria to be renamed :

March 07 2005 at 06:08PM

The Tshwane City Council voted on Monday to retain the name Pretoria for the city centre only, whereas the name Tshwane will refer to the greater metropolitan area.

The council authorised the municipal manager to affect all the necessary legal and administrative procedures to register the geographical area that constitutes the municipality as a city with the name Tshwane.

In his closing speech at the council meeting Tshwane mayor Smangaliso Mkhatshwa said he hoped for a future where his grandchildren's children were far removed from "the poison of apartheid" and in which issues such as name changes would have ceased to be of consequence.

Referring to the report to investigate the name change commissioned by Mkhatshwa as "flawed", Democratic Alliance Tshwane caucus chief whip Natasha Michael questioned why the opinions of international representatives of embassies were not requested in the report.

"Imagine the costs to the local businesses that have to change all references of Pretoria to Tshwane... it is nothing more than an economic nightmare," Michael said.

"Tshwane, the substitute name, has less substantiation behind it than the mythical island of Atlantis. Any other name could have been chosen," DA councillor Derek Fleming told the council.

The name change proposal was welcomed by the Pan African Congress.

"The PAC's position is that any institution, any images, monuments, relics, effigies or structures which represent or portray the colonial of apartheid past should be swiftly and mercilessly removed without ceremony," PAC councillor Phillip Kgosana said. - Sapa

[datilguy]

NNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NEVER!

[dysan1]

hehe...

[SA BOY]

what a waste of money again. seems the currebnt government is hell bent on replacing everything in South Africas history, I mean yes it has a bad rep with the previous seat of government etc but this madness must stop at sometime.How much will this stupid excercise cost>
In the first phase of renaming major streets in Durban, nine new names, mostly of former struggle icons, are set to get the go-ahead from the eThekwini Council.

Its non-racism, non-sexism and non-discrimination subcommittee agreed to the nine names on Monday

The city's executive committee has still to give them the final stamp of approval.

The renaming of the sometimes notorious Point Road after the father of passive resistance, Mahatma Gandhi, may prove controversial.

'My only concern is that he should have been given one of the more important roads'
However, his granddaughter, Ella Gandhi, brushed aside concerns on Monday.

"Gandhi would have settled in Point Road to change people's immoral ways.

"My only concern is that he should have been given one of the more important roads, given his contribution to the non-violent movement in South Africa," she said.

The first municipal building to be renamed is the Martin West Building, which will be known as Florence Mkhize Building, after a former councillor recognised for her charity work.

The renaming of city streets comes after a task team consisting of city officials and stakeholders received proposals from members of the public through a wide consultative process.

Although the names of struggle icons such as Chief Albert Luthuli have been put forward, unsung heroes and heroines have also been included.

Lesser-known historical figures whose names will make it into the city streets include Masabalala Yengwa, who was a provincial secretary of the African National Congress at the time when Luthuli was president. His name will replace NMR Avenue.

Alice Street will be named after Johannes Nkosi, who died in that street in 1930 while leading an anti-dompas campaign.

Stanger Street will be known as Stalwart Simelane Street. Simelane was a treasurer of the ANC in the 1950s.

The M4 southern freeway will be named after Luthuli.

The contribution made by women in the struggle against apartheid has also been recognised. Margaret Mncadi, the first president of the ANC Women's League in Natal, has been recommended for the Victoria Embankment.

The renaming process has been described as racially inclusive, with Grey/Broad Street being renamed Yusuf Daddoo.

Commercial Road will become Bram Fischer Road, and the M4 northern freeway will be named after Ruth First.

The process of removing Durban's colonial street names, statues and council buildings is now at an advanced stage. But the task team leading it - headed by speaker of council Nomusa Dube - has asked for the process to be speeded up to avoid cost implications for businesses.

The team raised its concerns in a report submitted to the executive committee on Monday.

"We need to identify all the major routes and streets that were earmarked for renaming... and rename them at one go," said the report.

Meanwhile, the death knell for the name Pretoria has been sounded.

At a special meeting on Monday, the ANC resolved to complete all the procedures to register the geographic area that constitutes the Tshwane municipality as a city with the name Tshwane.

The name Pretoria will in future apply only to the area bordered by D F Malan Drive in the west, Nelson Mandela in the east, Pretoria railway station in the south and Boom Street in the north.

This will mean that the Union Buildings, among others, will now fall within the City of Tshwane.


Fact Box

NMR Avenue becomes Masabalala Yengwa

Alice Street becomes Johannes Nkosi

Grey/Broad Street becomes Yusuf Daddoo

Stanger Street becomes Stalwart Simelane

Commercial Road becomes Bram Fischer

M4 southern freeway (airport) becomes Chief Albert Luthuli

M4 northern freeway (Umhlanga) becomes Ruth First

Victoria Embarkment becomes Dr Margaret Mncadi

Point Road becomes Mahatma Gandhi

[joburg]

Pretty ridiculous if you ask me! They are so worried about name changes but aren't worried at all about the poverty which exists on these roads. NOOOOO... as long as they can afford to have a fat cat party to rename these streets, they're happy. And I mean - who the hell are most of these people getting streets honouring their name?

"Its non-racism, non-sexism and non-discrimination subcommittee agreed to the nine names on Monday"
"The renaming of city streets comes after a task team consisting of city officials and stakeholders received proposals from members of the public through a wide consultative process."

I'm surprised they didn't organise a lekgotla to draft a white paper in order to inaugurate a process whereby all interested stakeholders could have their non-racist and non-sexist democratic say in the matter. Thereafter they could organise another lekgotla to draft a white paper as to how they are going to implement the name changes.

UGH!!! I intensely dislike the government!

[dysan1]

the problem i have is, How on earth are we going to pronounce some of these names... and secondly, some of the previous names were unoffencesive.

Another point is that they have given names to main streets which dont better the road in any way. By renaming NMR avenue - Masabalala Yengwa, no one will use it.

The one name i feel they made the BIGGEST mistake on, was "Victoria Embarkment becomes Dr Margaret Mncadi". Its a prime route and part of future tourist plans... they should think of that before renaming it after someone of little importance compared to some of the other names available.

It almost seems like they just want to give street names for everyone, no matter how small a role they actually played in the development of the country.

i'm not against renaming, but they must use names that people know and of people that actually did something more than just sign up to join the ANC... otherwise i'll sign up cos i would really like riverside road named after me....

[joburg]

Indeed Dysan... I'm all happy for Ruth First and Albert Luthuli and Gandhi to get streets, but the others? And I agree that the biggest mistake would be renaming the Victoria Embankment. That street name could very easily begin to rival the Champs Ellysees, Oxford Street and Broadway. It is a perfect street name.

[Pule]

Malled in Africa


While shopping centres have become a permanent feature of suburban living, not all are created equal. Josef Talotta heads west to the latest mall, Clearwater, to separate the icons from the eye cons. Photographs by Andrzej Sawa

THERE’S a pecking order to Joburg’s shopping malls. “You’re only as good as your nearest mall,” joked a friend — except she wasn’t really joking. The glint in her eye said otherwise. And is it a mere coincidence that she lives within a five-minute drive, in heavy traffic, of Sandton City?

“Don’t get me wrong,” she says. “I absolutely love the views from some of the townhouse complexes at the top of Northcliff, but I wouldn’t want to shop at Cresta. I’m a Sandton girl.”

Other malls can spend Mark Shuttleworth’s bank balance on marketing and promotion, but they’ll never be Sandton. It’s a covetable brand; one that offers invaluable cache. Like “Umhlanga” and “Constantia”, the very word “Sandton” sounds like money when you say it out loud. Go ahead, try it. And then say the words “Randburg”, “Pinetown” and “Bellville”. Not quite the same, are they?


Seems my friend’s not alone. Which would explain why there’s a development mantra doing the rounds in Joburg’s northern suburbs at the moment that up to 3000 apartments are being built within a 3km radius of Sandton City. Yes, people are moving to Sandton because it’s Joburg’s “new CBD”. But it’s Joburg’s new CBD because of Sandton City, which kick-started the area’s meteoric rise. Ah, the power of a mall...


Like boxing champions, South Africa’s shopping centres can be divided into classes. There’s flyweight (small neighbourhood convenience centres of less than 5000m²); middleweights like Fourways and Somerset Mall (regional centres larger than 60000m²); and heavyweights like Sandton, Canal Walk, Gateway and Menlyn Park (super-regional centres larger than 100000m²).

“Centres between 5000m² and 20000m² can be a greater risk for developers,” says Chris Lawrence, president of the South African Council of Shopping Centres, “as they’re bigger than the traditional small neighbourhood centres but too small to compete with regional ones. Great care is required in their development as they can easily be upstaged at either end of the scale.

“That’s not to say they can’t comfortably survive, as testified by centres such as Benmore Gardens and Hyde Park Corner in Sandton. The demographics in each area are fundamental.”

Yet there’s no shortage of let-able shops in centres like the 19333m² Benmore Gardens and the 14704m² Thrupps Centre, down the road in Illovo. And a walk through the 15401m² Galleria Centre in Rosebank is a post-apocalyptic experience that would make even the most militant of shopping veterans shudder in her Manolo Blahniks. Like a country club for Anglo-Zimbabwean farmers, the centre is all but closed, featuring little more than a destination deli, a post office and a bottle store. Scores of “to let” signs are complemented by a few wheezing arts and crafts workshops, complete with imaginary vultures circling overhead.


Are we perhaps reaching saturation point in our suburban areas? South Africa has more than 800 centres, ranging from the mega-sized Sandton City to Cape Town’s petit-but-potent Alfred Mall. That said, only 50 or 60 might be classified as “heavyweight” or “middleweight”, compared with more than 1100 US malls in the same categories. Still, it’s an interesting ratio: for every 25 or 30 US malls there’s an SA counterpart.

For better or worse, when it comes to malls, we’re up there with the world’s best. Which could explain why SA-linked Liberty International runs some of the UK’s largest malls, and why South African firms are major players in the Middle East retail development scene, particularly in Dubai and Kuwait.


SA’s retail leadership is fuelled by ongoing specialised research into the most mundane aspects of local shopping habits. Retail research consultant Dr Dirk Prinsloo provides fascinating insight into local shopping patterns, including titbits that show a South African consumer will spend an average of 39 quick-dash minutes in a small shopping centre and a staggering two hours and 47 minutes in a super-regional centre like Durban’s Gateway, Pretoria’s Menlyn or Sandton City (see sidebar).


But, while Sandton City might be one of the leading collective tills for South Africa’s disposable income, it’s hardly the leader in cutting-edge shopping-mall design. That’s not surprising, considering it’s 31 years old. Then again, it was built during the CC era — the bad days of Cultural Cringe, when South Africans were so insecure we’d follow trends from Kansas City just because they were from “overseas”.

The era celebrated alien imitation over local innovation, producing a series of climate-controlled, bunker-like shopping environments better suited to the colder climes of Toronto or Chicago rather than sunny Joburg, or sea-kissed Cape Town or Durban.


The new-generation South African shopping experience — as seen in Cape Town’s Century City, Pretoria’s Woodhill Boulevard and Clearwater in Joburg’s northwestern suburbs — tends to include an indoor-outdoor element, particularly in the design of alfresco dining components.

Recently refurbished, Hyde Park Corner is a notable exception. Its latest renovation sees it firmly turning its back on any sense of exterior public space or pedestrian entrance. Its former “front door”, a glass-encased entrance facing Jan Smuts Avenue, has been entombed in a parking garage so that pedestrians can only enter the centre by first walking through its parking garages. In a car? You’re a star. On foot? Stay away, boet. The feel is very Private Bunker.


Clearwater is, literally and figuratively, a breath of fresh air in South African shopping-mall design. It features a massive high-tech roof over its central food court that, weather permitting, rolls back, letting fresh air and sunshine into the heart of the centre. “Our brief was for a modern 65000m² shopping centre,” says Graham Smith, a director at Bentel Associates International, the firm responsible for Clearwater’s design. “Internally, we explored the feeling of space and volume by increasing the heights of the shop fronts and by floating the ceilings and laying highly reflective polished porcelain tiles.”


Smith’s team worked with Clearwater’s environment as a visual point of departure, using basic elements like smoked glass, wood, stainless steel, cement and high-gloss porcelain finishes. The result is a centre that aesthetically blends with its environment and site — the rocky hills of northwestern Joburg.


Scores of shopping centres have just opened, or are being planned, in South Africa’s suburbs, townships and secondary cities, from the Botswana border to the Garden Route. Even Joburg’s shopping-saturated “New North” — the cluster of cluster complexes with peculiar-sounding names like “Focaccia” and “Spaghetti Bolognese” straddling the N3 and M1 freeways from Randpark Ridge and Sunninghill to Midrand and Centurion — has more centres on the boil.

It was recently reported that five new malls have been proposed for the Johannesburg-Centurion corridor alone, the largest being Old Mutual’s Zonk’Izizwe in Midrand, a massive, super-regional, mixed-use centre that would be twice the size of Sandton City. Think Century City on steroids.


Lawrence is frank when discussing the impact of new shopping centres on the country’s existing 120-odd designated CBDs and high streets. “There’s an upside and a downside to the very loose application of town-planning regulations in South Africa,” he says. “The upside is that free competition prevails and we benefit from the latest world trends and design with some of the world’s most state-of-the-art shopping malls. The downside is that the new and bigger malls negatively impact on existing shopping centres and CBDs, in some cases leaving them obsolescent.


“There’s no doubt that more control is required,” he says. “A developer or investor will make a multi-million rand investment in a shopping centre, only to see it upstaged some years later by a more modern offering. What ought to happen is that the first centre should be upgraded and expanded. In the UK the Minister of Environment stopped the development of the out-of-town super-regional centres in an effort to protect the British high streets and to promote the upgrading and development of city centres.”


There are, of course, pros and cons to ongoing shopping-mall development. Cons include the very concept of malls — described by Paco Underhill in Call of the Mall as “sanitised architectural cliché(s) in which you find not exquisite treasures and exotic wares, but rather 80 different styles of sneaker and 16 varieties of chocolate-chip cookie. No wonder we look at the mall — at the ambition of it, at the reality, at that already obese teenager stuffing her jaw with a drooling Cinnabon — and can’t help but wonder: Is this the best we could do?”

A mall can never replace neighbourhood high streets like Joburg’s Tyrone Avenue, Durban’s Florida Road or Cape Town’s Kloof Street. Regardless of how many plastic birds are perched on its fake washing lines, Montecasino can never pass for the real deal.


And, as Underhill points out, malls are here to stay, at least for now — the modern interpretation of our ancient souks, bazaars, arcades and marketplaces. But, when they’re done right, like Clearwater, they work on a much higher level than mere convenience and efficiency.

Let’s be blunt: sometimes it’s the car that attracts, not the contents. Think Hyde Park Corner — great contents, but as a design vehicle it tries too hard. Its post-refurbishment exterior makes a feeble attempt to pass as sophisticated and slick — complete with desperately un-hip neon starburst embellishments and poorly designed signage — but it’d look more at home in Dubai, the global pulse-point of bad architecture.

By contrast, Clearwater serves as the perfect directional design icon for South African shopping centres, even though it’s merely repackaging a predictable mix of local chain stores. Its point of differentiation is the fact that, like a sexy little cabriolet, its roof rolls back — a surprisingly simple concept in a country celebrated for its outdoor lifestyle. As a concept it works. Pity it’s not in Sandton.

[SYDNEY]

Pretty ridiculous if you ask me! They are so worried about name changes but aren't worried at all about the poverty which exists on these roads. NOOOOO... as long as they can afford to have a fat cat party to rename these streets, they're happy. And I mean - who the hell are most of these people getting streets honouring their name?

"Its non-racism, non-sexism and non-discrimination subcommittee agreed to the nine names on Monday"
"The renaming of city streets comes after a task team consisting of city officials and stakeholders received proposals from members of the public through a wide consultative process."

I'm surprised they didn't organise a lekgotla to draft a white paper in order to inaugurate a process whereby all interested stakeholders could have their non-racist and non-sexist democratic say in the matter. Thereafter they could organise another lekgotla to draft a white paper as to how they are going to implement the name changes.

UGH!!! I intensely dislike the government!

And then throw a BIG party while they load their handbags full of food .. no
wonder the Parliament members are so fat. Democracy is a farce in this country. Fuck the ANC.

[datilguy]

The renaming of South Africa's cities and streets is (no offense meant) theSTUPIDEST thing I've ever heard!! You cant just totally ignore South African heritage because some big wig thinks its "unfair" and that changing Pretoria to some (again no offense) unga bunga <click click> is gonna right the injustcies of the past. Does anyone thing its gonna be even more welcoming for foreighners to come visit when they cant pronounce the name and it falls into the category of "African" names. What a crock!!!!
As dysan said, some of the name changes are abosolutely ridiculous. Masabalala Yengwa !?!?!?! I refuse to ever call Pietersburg Polokwane and Pretoria Tshwane. The white people in Albuquerque would never band together to have their city renamed Britown. New Yorkers would never change their city to "Iriqois-city". Houston would never become "El Lagos".

[HirakataShi]

South Africa is an African country not a European one. South African cities and streets should have African names not European names.

[clive330]

South Africa has a strong European heritage and I think they are going a bit overboard with all the renaming. Getting rid of apartheid figures - fine, but eliminating every vestige of the pre-1994 past simply because it is "tarnished" with colonialism is TOO MUCH.

And if its SO passe to name everything after old politicians. And unnecessarily complex to have both first and last names, especially when most are really multisyllabic. Yengwa is ok for a name, cool actually, but is "Masabalala Yengwa " really necessary? I say no.

[SA BOY]

South Africa is an African country not a European one. South African cities and streets should have African names not European names.
so every trace of a cities heritage should be wiped clean like a stalinist or north korean approch to rewrite the history?? I agree with names like verwoed etc who are inexplicably linked to the word appartheit. But what of Jan Smuts? nothing to do with appartheid , was a world leader, fought agaist the nazis in WW2, helped found the leage of nations which became the UN and was voted out of power by the Nats in 1949.
Why should he be axed in the name of africinism??
Same as victoria embankment, named after Queen victoria who had a huge influence on Durbans growth now she and her contribution to the city will be wiped out in the name of 1 person who had fuck all to do with durbans history.
Its a shame and a yoke.

[Pule]

South Africa has a strong European heritage and I think they are going a bit overboard with all the renaming. Getting rid of apartheid figures - fine, but eliminating every vestige of the pre-1994 past simply because it is "tarnished" with colonialism is TOO MUCH.

And if its SO passe to name everything after old politicians. And unnecessarily complex to have both first and last names, especially when most are really multisyllabic. Yengwa is ok for a name, cool actually, but is "Masabalala Yengwa " really necessary? I say no.

I agree 100% with you bro. The changes of street and town/city names will also affect comanies financially and will cost us as tax payers a lot. I'm an African and don't believe in naming our things, streets, buildings etc, after Europeans, but money matters most. To be honest I like the name Pretoria and don't think that it will be appropriate for them to change it. Some of this things are not necessary, as the money they gonna use should be used to help AIDS sufferers and the poor F*CK.

[dysan1]

i believe that worst thing that is coming out of the renaming process, is that everything favours the ANC politicians and comrades of the past. Other people that did good during apartheid seem to be ignored. it seems as if its being used as a political weapon.

Dont forget that one has to remember from where one came to progress to a brighter future.

Gov. ministers always go on about how unique south africa is with its divere society, but soon many of those elements may be lost. No matter one says, the people that were honoured for their past efforts, helped make the area's wherein they are honoured what they are today. by taking that away from them, the newly named street will have a false legacy, for the new person has nothing do with that area's history. I believe that these people should be honoured for their contributions in the new area's that have come about since '94. To show the major changes that have come with freedom from apartheid. this form of recognition would be far more meaningful, than getting rid of some elses name.

They could use their names in umhlanga, at the point...

what do you all think?

[SYDNEY]

i believe that worst thing that is coming out of the renaming process, is that everything favours the ANC politicians and comrades of the past. Other people that did good during apartheid seem to be ignored. it seems as if its being used as a political weapon.

Dont forget that one has to remember from where one came to progress to a brighter future.

Gov. ministers always go on about how unique south africa is with its divere society, but soon many of those elements may be lost. No matter one says, the people that were honoured for their past efforts, helped make the area's wherein they are honoured what they are today. by taking that away from them, the newly named street will have a false legacy, for the new person has nothing do with that area's history. I believe that these people should be honoured for their contributions in the new area's that have come about since '94. To show the major changes that have come with freedom from apartheid. this form of recognition would be far more meaningful, than getting rid of some elses name.

They could use their names in umhlanga, at the point...

what do you all think?

I rest my case .. we are officially a one-party state and fvck the minority - it's so sad .. I am going to cry :(

[mike2005]

Well the minority is represented by Bram Fischer and Ruth First. And dont forget that the majority of smaller roads etc will continue to have so called 'white' names. Also in Joburg the major name changes have been changed to represent whites (Beyers Naude and Mary Fitzgerald) and an Indian (Ghandi) So its hardly a case of 'Fuck the minority' Get your facts straight. Do you seriously believe that the majority should have no names thery can relate to?

[dysan1]

gandalf, thats not exactly what i meant... I just feel that more thought needs to be given to a touchy issue like this. And the benefit, or lack thereof, to the city needs to be weighed against the political "goodwill".

[HirakataShi]

Re: Pietersburg - Polokwane. Why should the capital of a province where 98% of the population is North Sotho, Venda or Tsonga have a European name? No one ever related to the name "Pietersburg" so it was changed to Polokwane. The people who live in Polokwane weren't even white. If I go to Europe, will I see capital cities with Sotho, Venda or Tsonga names? I see no reason for a South African city to have a foreign name.

[SYDNEY]

What the fvck, who cares anyway, soon Cape Town will be renamed Mfeketothequeenofafricathatfuckedaonceuponatimegorgeouscityupvivaanc. Eish, it is soooo luvly ;)

[SA BOY]

Well the minority is represented by Bram Fischer and Ruth First. And dont forget that the majority of smaller roads etc will continue to have so called 'white' names. Also in Joburg the major name changes have been changed to represent whites (Beyers Naude and Mary Fitzgerald) and an Indian (Ghandi) So its hardly a case of 'Fuck the minority' Get your facts straight. Do you seriously believe that the majority should have no names thery can relate to?
No not at all, but we must respect the past and acknowlage the contribution these people have made to our history. There are so many new names and new places why not have a ethnic feel to these as well as changing names that are offensive, but to blanket change everything that has an anglo conotation is pure racist.
I agree there needs to be more representation of local words and places but not at the expence of another minority cos then we are back where we were 20 years ago.

[Mo Rush]

gandalf mind your language!

[SYDNEY]

gandalf mind your language!

Oh dear ... I (and other members of this forum) have been swearing on this forum ever since it was created and I have NEVER heard you complain about it. Why the change in attitude now ? I know, because I don't agree with your Olympic dream for Cape Town.

Sweety, as chairman of the Olympic Committee you will have to grow up and no longer be 18. Thousands of people will be against Cape Town's bid and sulking or being nasty isn't going to score you browny points. Rather concentrate on changing people's perceptions and gathering sheep for your flock.

I know you can do it - try it ;)

[SYDNEY]

Does anybody else think that Cape Town's name will be changed and too what. Mfeketo has written a full page letter explaining that Cape Town is too white and she has plans to change this .... I smell a rat. Could it become iKapa ?

[SYDNEY]

Well the minority is represented by Bram Fischer and Ruth First. And dont forget that the majority of smaller roads etc will continue to have so called 'white' names. Also in Joburg the major name changes have been changed to represent whites (Beyers Naude and Mary Fitzgerald) and an Indian (Ghandi) So its hardly a case of 'Fuck the minority' Get your facts straight. Do you seriously believe that the majority should have no names thery can relate to?

Darling, "straight" is not part of my vocabularly but yes, you are right, the majority should be represented. If you are white and an ANC member you are not part of the minority (ask Van Schalkwyk) and your name will be up in lights.

[Pule]

Oh dear ... I (and other members of this forum) have been swearing on this forum ever since it was created and I have NEVER heard you complain about it. Why the change in attitude now ? I know, because I don't agree with your Olympic dream for Cape Town.

Sweety, as chairman of the Olympic Committee you will have to grow up and no longer be 18. Thousands of people will be against Cape Town's bid and sulking or being nasty isn't going to score you browny points. Rather concentrate on changing people's perceptions and gathering sheep for your flock.

I know you can do it - try it ;)

Come on Gandalf, I think the whole of South Africa wants to see the Olympics in their backyard. I'm also into Olympics, I was so much crossed when we lost against Athens, but I'm sure we will be hosting the 2020. Its obvious to not everyone will support the idea as its happens in every case but I'm sure most supports it. Rugby World Cup, SWC 2010...you name them, they were still not supported by everyone but we managed to get them.

Otherwise this negetive perception you having this days just doesn't do it for me. Can you be the Gandalf we know for once. Can you try to keep anything negetive you wanna say to yourself. SA forum is not even interesting anymore because of people like you. I just hate the now Gandalf, sometimes I wonder if there's someboddy using your login. I hope they Gandalf we used to know will come back and waken up this forum.

[SYDNEY]

Come on Gandalf, I think the whole of South Africa wants to see the Olympics in their backyard. I'm also into Olympics, I was so much crossed when we lost against Athens, but I'm sure we will be hosting the 2020. Its obvious to not everyone will support the idea as its happens in every case but I'm sure most supports it. Rugby World Cup, SWC 2010...you name them, they were still not supported by everyone but we managed to get them.

Otherwise this negetive perception you having this days just doesn't do it for me. Can you be the Gandalf we know for once. Can you try to keep anything negetive you wanna say to yourself. SA forum is not even interesting anymore because of people like you. I just hate the now Gandalf, sometimes I wonder if there's someboddy using your login. I hope they Gandalf we used to know will come back and waken up this forum.

I am in support of South Africa getting the Olympics I just don't agree that it should be Cape Town. I am starting to think that Johannesburg will be a good choice. The altitude might be too high, I don't know. Durban would be great but faces the same challenges as Cape Town with regards to infrastructure and the housing crises (just maybe Durban has a better infrastructure than Cape Town ... now there is food for thought ;) )

I have always been out-spoken against the ANC and I will remain that way - sorry.

[Pule]

I am in support of South Africa getting the Olympics I just don't agree that it should be Cape Town. I am starting to think that Johannesburg will be a good choice. The altitude might be too high, I don't know. Durban would be great but faces the same challenges as Cape Town with regards to infrastructure and the housing crises (just maybe Durban has a better infrastructure than Cape Town ... now there is food for thought ;) )

I have always been out-spoken against the ANC and I will remain that way - sorry.

I don't have a problem with you critisizing the ANC, this is South Africa and freedom of speech is allowed, but be logical. I just hate the too much negetivity in you.

PS - I'm not hating you and will never do!!!

[Mo Rush]

was a joke gandalf bout the language hehe i cant say it mommy says i shud not say such words as the commitee CEO it might come back to haunt me, read 300 page book today bout cape towns olympic bid lotsa interesting points but all infavour of a joburg bid and ripping off cape towns bid as the authors thesis was about the joburg bid, it was a very interesting book about each of the summmer games so far but then theres his chunk about why cape town is not good enough for anything, purely a biased opinion, some of you might think joburg is a better alternative but if u watched the presentation video that i have of their bid competing against cape town back then it wil surely change your mind, apart from it being downright boring it makes joburg seem like something out of a fairytale and i mean more than cape town tries to, how to stage an olympic games: ONE PART JOBURGS MONEY, COMMUNICATION FACILITIES + ONE PART CAPE TOWNS BEAUTY, IMAGE REPUTATION, TOURISM POTENTIAL and SHEER OLYMPIC FEEL, ONE PART DURBAN FOR THE SUN AND SOME CURRY NEVER HARMED ANYONE EXCEPT THE ENGLISH CRICKET TEAM AND ONE PART BELIEF AND PERSISTENCE.

[Mo Rush]

OH AND ADD SOME MPUMALANGA FOR COLOUR AND SOME KIMBERLEY FOR SPARKLE!!!

[dysan1]

hehe, interesting take mo!

But if what i'm hearing from durban is true, that the city maybe planning to bid for the olympics or commonwealth games in the near future! That could be the reason for the massive investments that are taking place in pur sporting infrastructure, but will place all those details on the sport page :)

[HirakataShi]

Do booms reduce crime?

'Boom gates don't keep you safe from crime'
By Caroline Hooper-Box

Fearing crime, many families have turned their homes into bastions - but boomed roads and walled-off suburbs don't necessarily curb crime, a symposium heard this week.

At the symposium on "gated communities" in Pretoria, delegates from 20 countries along with South African real estate developers and government representatives heard that road closures and access-controlled security villages did not prevent all serious crime - many murders and rapes in the country were carried out by relatives, or people known to victims.

"People believe that life within an enclosed village or neighbourhood provides a solution to crime and an improved quality of life," said Karina Landman, a research architect and urban designer at the Council for Scientific and Industrial Research (CSIR). However, "conclusive evidence of the effectiveness in South Africa is lacking".

Professor Beaty Naudé of the Institute for Criminological Sciences at the University of South Africa (Unisa) warned that public road closures and access-controlled security villages could reduce some opportunistic or impulsive crimes, such as theft, burglary, housebreaking and vandalism, but "it has very little impact on the overall crime rate at city, regional or national level".

"Despite the proliferation of security-controlled public roads and security villages in South Africa's main metropolitan areas since 1994, there is no statistical evidence of a dramatic decrease in crime in these metropoles."

Boyane Tshehla, a senior researcher with the Institute for Security Studies, told The Sunday Independent that it was "criminologically suspect" whether or not booms and closed suburbs reduced crime.

"We don't know - there has not been a study that proves the issue either way."

Community associations had statistics which showed that crime had decreased in their areas since they were gated off, Tshehla said, but these statistics could not be relied on as they came from sources with a vested interest.

Tshehla said that if gating communities did indeed reduce crime in those areas, "then we have a serious problem". Crime would then be shifted to other areas, he said, "and where will it end?"

Booms and gates were not a comprehensive solution to crime, he said. "It's a selfish act... But I have sympathy with these people, they are afraid of crime. We have to be looking at the issue broadly."

Criminological studies had found that there is "often" collusion between visitors with criminal intent and people who live and work in residential areas, Naudé said. And crimes such as rape, assault, and murder were most commonly committed by relatives, friends or acquaintances.

Robbery and car-hijackings were "normally committed by well-organised gangs who will not be deterred by public road closures", and drug abuse, fraud and corruption could also not be controlled by access-controlled public roads and security villages.

High-security developments would experience less crime not because the criminal activity had disappeared but because it had simply been shifted to another area, said Teresa Dirsuweit and Alex Wafer of the University of the Witwatersrand.

While making little difference to crime, boomed roads and walled neighbourhoods posed significant difficulties for commuters and service providers.

Through-traffic limited to a few major roads often leads to increased congestion and travel times, said Landman. Local authorities have expressed concerns about problems with waste removal and the reading of water and electricity meters. The rapid response times of police and other emergency vehicles is also compromised by a large number of road closures, Naudé and Landman said.

Richard Ballard of the Development Studies School at the University of KwaZulu-Natal described white people's strategy for finding comfort zones in post-apartheid South Africa as "semi-gration".

People did not leave the country but rather "gave up" their citizenship by closing themselves off in gated communities and living a lifestyle out of synch with the rest of South African society.

The South African Human Rights Commission's recommendations on boom gates in suburban streets will be released on Thursday.

The commission last year heard submissions presented by residents and community associations who argued that they had a right to put in place measures that secured their suburbs and reduced crime.

Those who presented arguments against neighbourhood closure want the booms removed on the grounds of freedom of movement.

[clive330]

There was a travel program on Cape Town screened here over the weekend which I watched with interest. However, it followed exactly the same path as every other doco I have ever seen on SA.

The american chick host wanders around most of the time with a (white) sagnoma and of the hour, about 30mins were spent in Kayelitcha. Great camera pans of shacks, mud, litter. The only time they went into the CBD was to watch some minstrels - you never saw anything else.

The only beach they went to (Camps Bay) they spent about 2 minutes there, with the camera facing the water.

The only drive they took, was a 5 minute drive through a dilapidated housing commission area on the flats. They spent 2 minutes on top of table mountain in heavy fog listening to some local crazy. No views. No sunsets. No beaches. No coastline.

They never went anywhere near any good suburb, any shopping centre, the V&A, never showed any hotels, restaurants, cafes, galleries.

The impression left at the end of this program (which was actually trying be upbeat and to sell holidays) was: Cape Town is Lagos.

This SO pissed me off. Since I have seen "balanced" docos like this before, I carefully didnt tell anyone I knew that it was on. I am so glad I didnt.

Fuck I wish someone, once, would make a program that didnt make every bit of SA cities look like a third world shithole.

[Pule]

There was a travel program on Cape Town screened here over the weekend which I watched with interest. However, it followed exactly the same path as every other doco I have ever seen on SA.

The american chick host wanders around most of the time with a (white) sagnoma and of the hour, about 30mins were spent in Kayelitcha. Great camera pans of shacks, mud, litter. The only time they went into the CBD was to watch some minstrels - you never saw anything else.

The only beach they went to (Camps Bay) they spent about 2 minutes there, with the camera facing the water.

The only drive they took, was a 5 minute drive through a dilapidated housing commission area on the flats. They spent 2 minutes on top of table mountain in heavy fog listening to some local crazy. No views. No sunsets. No beaches. No coastline.

They never went anywhere near any good suburb, any shopping centre, the V&A, never showed any hotels, restaurants, cafes, galleries.

The impression left at the end of this program (which was actually trying be upbeat and to sell holidays) was: Cape Town is Lagos.

This SO pissed me off. Since I have seen "balanced" docos like this before, I carefully didnt tell anyone I knew that it was on. I am so glad I didnt.

Fuck I wish someone, once, would make a program that didnt make every bit of SA cities look like a third world shithole.

As always Clive, the doco was done by American lady as you say and they only focus on the negetivity. The should be a kind of comettee that focuses on this kind of things, I mean for every tourism documentation one need to evaluate it before it goes out there. I'm not saying that shacks need not be shown but the good side of the city must also be shown. I think the doco should be done by a person knowing the place rather than a stupid American coming with their own mentality. This are the kind of things that makes people think negetive about Africa. The best thing is to take your camera and do the magic and lastly sell your doco to the the likes of BBC which I think is the only news channel that tells the truth about South Africa.

You must write a complain letter to the TV channel as you know CT better and suggest that this kind of documentation need to be done by a South African living in the city.

[dysan1]

why dont more south africans make travel programs of our own country... cos the ones on the travel channel are so outdated. if u see the number of programs on australia, u get an understanding that if there were more decent ones on sa, that we would probably get more airtime, for we have more to offer and are closer to the european market that watches the channel.

Think i should go make one!

[Mo Rush]

im sick of wannabe american "AFRICANS" coming to south africa and wanting to go back to their roots in the process showing only what the bad side of south africa looks and talking to sangomas as if south africa is only based on one culture, yes those programs are nice but i mean really its time people showed cape town and south africa for what it truly is the good bad ugly beautiful ...

[datilguy]

Those tv shows are shit anyway. The best reason to not watch them. BBC really is no different. But if one channel could be sent to hell it should be CNN. I HATE f*#king CNN with a livid passion!!!!!