I'm doing a poll to see if you prefer:

- Private Healthcare
- Public Healthcare
or...
- Two-Tier Healthcare?

My choice is TT Healthcare because we could use that money for better medical technology, cheaper medicine, shorter wait times, lower taxes etc...

It's a benefit for the rich AND poor. So what's you opinion?

:gunz: Better be with me... Got that punks? :P

If it is a two tiered system, "we" won't be using that money for anything. Private companies will get it.

^^, I don't understand. These private hospitals and insurers would provide 1st rate health care with little to no wait times. If those that could afford to, move into the private system, then there would be less strain on the public system, then end result being everyone wins.

If there are laws that make sure all doctors work a percentage of their time in the public system, then the care would remain relatively similar.

But if the private system became so effective at taking the strain off the public system that wait times in the public system were diminished, and the care in the two systems were the same quality, then what incentive would there be for even wealthy people to spend the extra thousands to use the private system? They would all just stampede into the public system until it became overwhelmed again and wait times increased again. In other words, the only way the private system would be attractive to people (assuming the care was the same) is if there would always be significantly longer wait times in the public system.

Now that that's been established, we have to ask ourselves whether or not care that you have to wait significantly longer for is really as high in quality. Medical outcomes are often strongly influenced by how quickly treatment begins. And that doesn't even consider the amount of pain and suffering that people can experience when their care is delayed.

I can see the argument for TT care being at least somewhat persuasive if it actually made things more efficient. But in countries with mainly or partially private care, society ends up paying much more overall.

So it really boils down to the age old question of whether or not the availability (and therefore quality) of something as basic and essential as health care should be determined by how much money a person has in the same way that consumer goods and services would be.

(In case anyone hasn't guessed, my vote goes to public). :tongue3:

Public. Proper health care must be for everyone. End of story.

Public. Proper health care must be for everyone. End of story.

^^ X2

Even with the best of intentions, tax money would eventually subsidize private care.

Yeah, but due to Canada's super booming RETIREMENT era coming soon PH will be unaffordable, so why can't PUBLIC healthcare be for those who DON'T want private healthcare but why should wealthy or middle-class citizens who can afford private healthcare be forced into the states or die waiting for treatment when they could pump that money INTO the Canadian system.

Win-Win-Win. Two-tier 4EVA!

No, I think they should make young people like you pay six times as much to support old farts like moi!! :D

But if the private system became so effective at taking the strain off the public system that wait times in the public system were diminished, and the care in the two systems were the same quality, then what incentive would there be for even wealthy people to spend the extra thousands to use the private system?

Very simple! Tax incentive. If you earn over say $75,000 / year, then either you take out private health insurance, or the government will deduct another 2% of your gross salary.

@Taller, Better:

Fine, but you can be responible for this...

http://i881.photobucket.com/albums/ac19/CanadianDemon/HC.jpg

I think the system works very well for now (notwithstanding what will happen when the massive Baby Boomer era reaches the age of perpetual convalescence).. I haven't had a problem...

Although, my only complaint would be that certain drugs should be available over the counter from a pharmacist. I am unfortunately susceptible to my annual bout with strep throat, and I know what I have - but I have to go wait in a walk in clinic for over an hour, with a high fever, just to get the damn prescription for the same antibiotics I need every time... In Spain, certain drugs, like that, would be available directly from the pharmacist. You would tell him/her your symptoms and they would give you something for it.

Ouch... What you just explained I would consider a major con a demand it be fixed immediately.

I have had a sore throat for 4 days now, definitely not the start of a cold as it should have started days ago, and definitely not strep as I'd have fever and I'd be in insane pain.

Something's off, yet I can't get this checked until Tuesday.. God I hate this system.

I have had a sore throat for 4 days now, definitely not the start of a cold as it should have started days ago, and definitely not strep as I'd have fever and I'd be in insane pain.

Something's off, yet I can't get this checked until Tuesday.. God I hate this system.

Sore as in dry or sore as in headache type sore?

If it's dry then I recommend steaming your throat for a few minutes then drinking cold water and finishing off with fruit juice etc...

I have no idea what it is... I think it might be a sinus infection since I can taste a very small amount of blood occasionally and it's the upper part of my throat that is sore.

Likely allergies. 'Tis the time of year, with all the pollen about. Some autumns I get the chest one, others the sinus one, etc... etc..
Some years nothing. They can come on at any age. Mine began when I moved to here, as the plants and trees are different from what
I was raised with. Take a Reactin and see if it helps.

I've never had allergies before.. Guh, and I thought I was invincible.. Cept for Penicillin, that shit will straight up kill me!:lol:

If Reactin helps, then it is probably allergies. I was confused as heck the first time it happened... symptoms of a cold, without feeling like a cold.

It isn't unusual to develop allergies when you're older. I seem to be developing an allergy to smoke or something. A few years ago it didn't bother me but now I have a lot of trouble breathing around it. I've also beaten my lactose intolerance.

Could be asthma. Should probably get tested.

I advise you to take up smoking, and beat your intolerance to smoke!!
That'll be five dollah plees. "Smiles are Free", but advice is not.


Honestly, the chances of me being around in 2080 are slim to negatory, but maybe the minimum wage will be $10,000 an hour and we won't have to worry about the cost.

@Taller, Better:

Fine, but you can be responible for this...

http://i881.photobucket.com/albums/ac19/CanadianDemon/HC.jpg

Wonder which crazy person just voted that they are so fabulously wealthy that they don't care about medical bills?!?!? :dunno:

hehe.....http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j251/dawnd_01/WINTER%202008/Winter%20Part%20Two%202009/Late%20Summer%20Early%20Fall%202009/2010%20Summer%20Part%20Deux/emoticonburstbubblebg2.gif

It can't be asthma - I recently quit smoking, and I never had any trouble breathing. Just read allergies don't cause sore throats.

I also run 7km a day - my breathing is fine.

Filip maybe it's something you ate? Have you had anything new to eat recently?

Not really... I'm a pretty boring person, I eat the same thing every day (in cycles depending on which day of the week).

I'll wait it out for another day, if on Tuesday it's still feeling weird, I'll go to the walk in clinic across the street. I'm just annoyed everything is closed tomorrow.

Just read allergies don't cause sore throats.
.

I believe that to be untrue, from my experience. Allergies seem to manifest themselves in any of the eye/ears/nose/throat canals (they are, after all, all connected).
I'd try an antihistamine tablet and see if it helps, personally.

Yeah, but due to Canada's super booming RETIREMENT era coming soon PH will be unaffordable, so why can't PUBLIC healthcare be for those who DON'T want private healthcare but why should wealthy or middle-class citizens who can afford private healthcare be forced into the states or die waiting for treatment when they could pump that money INTO the Canadian system.

Win-Win-Win. Two-tier 4EVA!

Win-win-win

Mexico's health care lures Americans
It sounds almost too good to be true: a health care plan with no limits, no deductibles, free medicines, tests, X-rays, eyeglasses, even dental work — all for a flat fee of $250 or less a year.
To get it, you just have to move to Mexico.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2009-08-31-mexico-health-care_N.htm
http://www.expatforum.com/articles/health/health-care-in-mexico.html

Win-win-win

Mexico's health care lures Americans
It sounds almost too good to be true: a health care plan with no limits, no deductibles, free medicines, tests, X-rays, eyeglasses, even dental work — all for a flat fee of $250 or less a year.
To get it, you just have to move to Mexico.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2009-08-31-mexico-health-care_N.htm
http://www.expatforum.com/articles/health/health-care-in-mexico.html

The problem is Mexico is god knows how many miles from Canada.

I love Mexico, but do not think their medical system should be a template for Canada.

"Aggregate health statistics for Mexico have improved greatly since the 1970s. However, Mexico lags well behind other OECD countries in health status and health care availability.[5]"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_Mexico

Maybe something at work or school? Doing woodworking a few years ago I was downwind of some chemical and got a pretty bad sore throat for a couple days after that. Maybe you're being exposed to something that you aren't allergic to, but it irritating you anyway.

Could be just an old fashioned sore throat.

Yeah, but due to Canada's super booming RETIREMENT era coming soon PH will be unaffordable, so why can't PUBLIC healthcare be for those who DON'T want private healthcare but why should wealthy or middle-class citizens who can afford private healthcare be forced into the states or die waiting for treatment when they could pump that money INTO the Canadian system.

Win-Win-Win. Two-tier 4EVA!But the whole public health care becoming unaffordable argument makes absolutely no sense since private heath care does not increase efficiency and ends costing a country a greater percentage of its GDP. How can affordability be used as an argument against public care when the alternative would cost society significantly more?

Very simple! Tax incentive. If you earn over say $75,000 / year, then either you take out private health insurance, or the government will deduct another 2% of your gross salary.
Which effectively means the government would be offering people a subsidy toward their private heath care costs by charging them less taxes than if they used the public system. Not that it would make much of a difference anyway considering that in the US for example, 2% of a $75 income ($1500) would not come close to paying for the yearly contribution an individual would need to make in order to insure herself (of the stats I could find on the net, most peg the cost at $3000-$4500/year for an individual). So the wealthy person would end up saving a lot of extra money by opting to take the tax hit and sticking with the public system (if the care really was just as good of course :)).

And the most obvious question: If we consider it fair charge a higher tax rate to wealthy individuals that decline to pay for private care, why not just charge all wealthy people a higher rate in order to better fund the single public system?

The problem with many Canadians is that they only compare the system here with what is south of the border. But the problem with that, is the US system is one of the worst in the world. We need to look further afield, other counties do a pretty reasonable job, a lot better than Canada is currently doing.

I for one, am not happy to wait 2 weeks to see a GP, or 8 months to see a specialist, or sit in a crowded emergency room for 12 hours or more.

Two-tier.

Our health care system isn't as great as some may think, though it's not bad either, but it will get worse with the aging population. If people can afford to get quicker service at a private clinic then let them do it so it frees up more public beds, we are supposedly living in a free country.

France has the best health care system in the world and it's two-tier, if it can work for them it can work for us.

The problem with many Canadians is that they only compare the system here with what is south of the border. But the problem with that, is the US system is one of the worst in the world. We need to look further afield, other counties do a pretty reasonable job, a lot better than Canada is currently doing.

I for one, am not happy to wait 2 weeks to see a GP, or 8 months to see a specialist, or sit in a crowded emergency room for 12 hours or more.


If you are referring to Canada, I have never had to wait 2 weeks to see a GP (unless he was on vacation), and in fact if it is very important I have always been able to get in for a quick emergency appointment that very day. It would have to be a pretty mild ailment to have to wait 8 months to see a specialist. Those sound like some of the "statistics" that right wing American media likes to quote about the Canadian health care system in order to discredit it.

By the way, I thought you were very concerned about turning these threads into "us vs them" debates? :



As a mod, I would have expected you not to turn this into an us vs them debate by having a dig at others.:ohno:

It takes an average of a month for me to see my GP, about a week if it is an emergency (if you're lucky, you'll get there within 3 days), and then another year to year and a half to see a specialist (it actually took so long that the problem resolved itself without him). He is retiring in 2012. I'll probably find a doctor soon (young healthy patients go through appointments quick so they make money, since it is a flat payment per patient from OHIP, so we have no trouble finding GPs) but my mom will probably have a really hard time finding one, since she actually requires a doctor to spend time with her (costly). I think that is why he tries to get us both in simultaneously. My being there gets him money for two patients and the time works out that he makes a profit or something. Also, his secretary is satan.

Access to health care is even worse in rural areas. Most of them don't have doctors at all. We have many "private" clinics in pharmacies here and those are always very busy, in some cases so much so that they overflow into the store. Many have to put six month limits on individuals to prevent abuse.

The problem with many Canadians is that they only compare the system here with what is south of the border. But the problem with that, is the US system is one of the worst in the world. We need to look further afield, other counties do a pretty reasonable job, a lot better than Canada is currently doing.

I for one, am not happy to wait 2 weeks to see a GP, or 8 months to see a specialist, or sit in a crowded emergency room for 12 hours or more.Canada uses the US as a comparison since it is the closest example of private care and since the US tends to be quite similar to us in many ways. And I personally have never had as negative an experience as you're describing either. The last time I went to the hospital was for a hernia (uncomfortable but far from life threatening). I went to ER around 2:30am, and within 8 hrs had been visited and examined by several doctors, prepared for surgery and was actually in the OR and ready for the repair procedure by about 11am. After hearing all the wait time scare stories, I assumed I would be stuck waiting for weeks before repair treatment.

But ultimately if we do want the system to allow for shorter wait times, and we know from examples like the US that private is not a guarantee of medical bliss, then why don't we just better fund the public system? We KNOW in terms of percentage of GDP that it is more efficient and affordable, so why would it be necessary to actually change the system. It seems more like people just have a fixation toward it.

Two-tier.

Our health care system isn't as great as some may think, though it's not bad either, but it will get worse with the aging population. If people can afford to get quicker service at a private clinic then let them do it so it frees up more public beds, we are supposedly living in a free country.

France has the best health care system in the world and it's two-tier, if it can work for them it can work for us.So in your view, the purpose of two tier really is to allow the wealthy to get much better access to care than everyone else. The very thing that public health care was created to remedy.

Yes, Canada is a free country, but there are some essential services that people feel the government should be responsible for, and Canadians have largely chosen to support the public system with both votes and opinion surveys. However, private insurance is not illegal here, nor are private medical institutions. But they are not common since everyone has access the the public system and medical ethics prevent queue jumping.

LOL! False alarm! I woke up this morning feeling particularly feisty, sore throat nearly gone...

I've become a bit of a hypochondriac after certain false alarms, but I'm trying so hard to be healthy, so much in fact that I've quit smoking, stopped drinking coffee, eat only natural foods and exercise 6 days a week. I'm blessed by the longevity gene (my grandmother is nearly 80 and she has been smoking for over 60 years, healthy as can be, and looks quite youthful too).. Cancer seems to be nonexistent in my immediate family (thank God since I have an inane fear of it).

I want to live to be 90.. Anything after that is a beautiful bonus.

^^ Glad to hear you're feeling better.

As for the health-care debate, in the past I have had no problem paying $400 dollars to book a procedure in a private clinic instead of waiting 6-8 months to have it done in a hospital OR. The procedure was still performed by the same surgeons, and covered by MSP; only had to pay for utilizing the private facilities.

So in your view, the purpose of two tier really is to allow the wealthy to get much better access to care than everyone else. The very thing that public health care was created to remedy.

Yes, Canada is a free country, but there are some essential services that people feel the government should be responsible for, and Canadians have largely chosen to support the public system with both votes and opinion surveys. However, private insurance is not illegal here, nor are private medical institutions. But they are not common since everyone has access the the public system and medical ethics prevent queue jumping.

If someone can afford to get procedures outside of the public system why not? This will allow for easier and quicker access in the public system.

If someone can afford to get procedures outside of the public system why not? This will allow for easier and quicker access in the public system.

If there is easier and quicker access to health care in the public system, why would someone pay for private health care?

I think the system works very well for now (notwithstanding what will happen when the massive Baby Boomer era reaches the age of perpetual convalescence).. I haven't had a problem...

Although, my only complaint would be that certain drugs should be available over the counter from a pharmacist. I am unfortunately susceptible to my annual bout with strep throat, and I know what I have - but I have to go wait in a walk in clinic for over an hour, with a high fever, just to get the damn prescription for the same antibiotics I need every time... In Spain, certain drugs, like that, would be available directly from the pharmacist. You would tell him/her your symptoms and they would give you something for it.

Handing out antibiotics willy nilly is quite frowned up (and rightly so). In countries with extremely poor healthcare systems, the doctors prescribe antibiotics for every damn thing since it is easier to do that than deliver a proper diagnosis.

Anyways, I think it would be naive to bury our heads in the sand and pretend as if our system is perfect as it is. I personally don't buy the doom and gloom scenario that is constantly delivered to us in the form of the baby boomers retirement age but you know, we can't ignore it either. Healthcare will begin to become more and more expensive as time goes by and what are we going to do? Keep on increasing the funding just to maintain a certain level of service?

Healthcare belongs in the "public" realm. "For profit" healthcare is simply wrong, immoral and the most expensive way to deliver the end product.

I live in the US BTW, but do not plan to stay here indefinitely, mainly due to the healthcare issue.

Why do American right-wingers think that they know everything about Canadian healthcare?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2jijuj1ysw&feature=fvw

LOL! False alarm! I woke up this morning feeling particularly feisty, sore throat nearly gone...

I've become a bit of a hypochondriac after certain false alarms, but I'm trying so hard to be healthy, so much in fact that I've quit smoking, stopped drinking coffee, eat only natural foods and exercise 6 days a week. I'm blessed by the longevity gene (my grandmother is nearly 80 and she has been smoking for over 60 years, healthy as can be, and looks quite youthful too).. Cancer seems to be nonexistent in my immediate family (thank God since I have an inane fear of it).

I want to live to be 90.. Anything after that is a beautiful bonus.

Have a glass of red wine and beer with supper and you'll live even longer!

If there is easier and quicker access to health care in the public system, why would someone pay for private health care?

Because you still have to wait as with Private Insurance your first in-first out.

Why do American right-wingers think that they know everything about Canadian healthcare?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2jijuj1ysw&feature=fvw

Because they're fucking idiots, in the pockets of the corporate profiteers, trying (and often succeeding) in brainwashing people in this country to believe that socialized medicine is evil. It's all about greed...i.e. "get your hands of my wallet and if you get sick, it's your problem". The US is a very dog eat dog kind of society.

Public Healthcare :okay:

Buying antibiotics over the counter is strictly Third World, and leads to resilient strains of bacteria. The last thing we need is the ability for everyone to self-diagnose and treat everything.

Because you still have to wait as with Private Insurance your first in-first out.

And that is another problem. Suppose the private hospital is full, too. I get there with a broken leg and have to wait after two sore throats and a "baby won't stop crying" because they got there before me? Bullshit.

Triage exists for a reason.

And that is another problem. Suppose the private hospital is full, too. I get there with a broken leg and have to wait after two sore throats and a "baby won't stop crying" because they got there before me? Bullshit.

Triage exists for a reason.

No. You make a law that states Majorly injured citizens get in before minor.

Now Ritalin, that is different. It should be put in all energy drinks.

No. You make a law that states Majorly injured citizens get in before minor.

Make triage a law?

You're thinking up a very complex system here. Make too many laws and companies probably won't bother.

Make triage a law?

You're thinking up a very complex system here. Make too many laws and companies probably won't bother.

But I won't make too many. I'm the 'In-between-the-bar" type of guy.

Now Ritalin, that is different. It should be put in all energy drinks.

I hope that's a joke. ;)

It was definitely an "in" joke! ;)

Healthcare will begin to become more and more expensive as time goes by and what are we going to do? Keep on increasing the funding just to maintain a certain level of service?Ahhhh, yes?

If health care becomes more expensive, we either have to pay more to maintain it or accept a lower quality of care. But if anything, that is an argument supporting public care, not opposing it. Remember, the general public will always be the one to pay the cost for health care, regardless of whether public, private or TT. Whether citizens pay the cost in the form of tax as in public care, or individual insurance premiums and trickle down price increases due to increased labour costs as in employer paid insurance benefits, the public will still be paying. And if the cost of care goes up, they will be paying a correspondingly higher amount to cover it whether higher tax, higher insurance, or trickle down consumer price increases.

The only question to ask is, "With all other things being equal, through which method will we be paying the least?" Since public care is more efficient overall due to lower administrative bloat, if we anticipate having trouble as a society to pay for care in the future, Public is the way to go.

The problem is Mexico is god knows how many miles from Canada.

Yeah, but due to Canada's super booming RETIREMENT era coming soon

I wonder why 500,000 North Americans (USAmericans and Canadians) travel every year to Mexico for treatment (from elderly to young babies looking for heart and platic sergury)

On thing is the level of coverage for all population down here, other is Medical Tourism

Health care for Babyboomer and retirees is the matter here.
http://www.health-tourism.com/mexico-medical-tourism/

Canada, USA & Mex will be signing a cooperation agreement on healthcare soon.

Handing out antibiotics willy nilly is quite frowned up (and rightly so). In countries with extremely poor healthcare systems, the doctors prescribe antibiotics for every damn thing since it is easier to do that than deliver a proper diagnosis.

Anyways, I think it would be naive to bury our heads in the sand and pretend as if our system is perfect as it is. I personally don't buy the doom and gloom scenario that is constantly delivered to us in the form of the baby boomers retirement age but you know, we can't ignore it either. Healthcare will begin to become more and more expensive as time goes by and what are we going to do? Keep on increasing the funding just to maintain a certain level of service?

I know when I have strep.. I don't need to go wait in a walk in clinic for an hour for the doctor to tell me what I already know.. Just gimme the damn antibiotics!!
God forbid I get sick on the weekend... I'd have to put up with the pain until Monday.

Btw, just got back from the doc's (throat acted up again this morning) I have a post-nasal drip.. Basically my sinuses are infected and are dripping pus onto my throat causing inflammation.. Now aside from this very graphic explanation, all I need is a few sprays of something for 2 days and I'm good!

Yay for doctors.

I remember when Rush Limbaugh traveled to Costa Rica to get healthcare.

I know when I have strep.. I don't need to go wait in a walk in clinic for an hour for the doctor to tell me what I already know.. Just gimme the damn antibiotics!!
God forbid I get sick on the weekend... I'd have to put up with the pain until Monday.

Btw, just got back from the doc's (throat acted up again this morning) I have a post-nasal drip.. Basically my sinuses are infected and are dripping pus onto my throat causing inflammation.. Now aside from this very graphic explanation, all I need is a few sprays of something for 2 days and I'm good!

Yay for doctors.

Try this: Find a Eucalyptus tree, take a bunch of leafs (only the leaf), put water to boil in a pot close to your bed and put all the leafs in the water.

The fumes will make you get better overnight. Do it once in a while if you suffer form a chronic problem.

If there is easier and quicker access to health care in the public system, why would someone pay for private health care?

Private will still be quicker because you're probably only going to get 20 odd per cent of the population using it, but that will be that many less people not using the public system which will in return speed it up.

It wouldn't be easy setting up a two tier system but if the government could figure out how to do it right so that we don't have all doctors wanting to work privatly then it could be very efficient.

I wonder why 500,000 North Americans (USAmericans and Canadians) travel every year to Mexico for treatment (from elderly to young babies looking for heart and platic sergury)
.

And I imagine some of those figures include the thousands who go to Mexico on holidays and require some emergency medical assistance. Perhaps many flock from the USA to Mexico for elective surgery, but I think you will find it is much less common from Canada than you may think. Again, I stress that as much as I love Mexico I really cannot see it as being any rôle model for Canada to strive toward.

Try this: Find a Eucalyptus tree, take a bunch of leafs

You find a eucalyptus tree with leaves on it in Canada in October. :lol:

It wouldn't be easy setting up a two tier system but if the government could figure out how to do it right so that we don't have all doctors wanting to work privatly then it could be very efficient.

All doctors already work privately. It's the health insurance that is government-owned. Doctors are simply private businesses that get paid by a single entity.

You find a eucalyptus tree with leaves on it in Canada in October. :lol:



All doctors already work privately. It's the health insurance that is government-owned. Doctors are simply private businesses that get paid by a single entity.

Surgeons though may decide they want to setup a private clinic to perform surgeries instead of in a government owned hospital.

And I imagine some of those figures include the thousands who go to Mexico on holidays and require some emergency medical assistance. Perhaps many flock from the USA to Mexico for elective surgery, but I think you will find it is much less common from Canada than you may think. Again, I stress that as much as I love Mexico I really cannot see it as being any rôle model for Canada to strive toward.

Not for you, but 300,000 Canadians who live in Mexico might use healtcare services from time to time. Many of them come down here just for healthcare. Here in Leon 3 new hospitals are under construction just to service the Northamerican and Canadian retiring population. If Canadians have money they might prefer to travel down here and spend 5 times less for a treatment while they enjoy a nice look around.

Obviously, with 47 million USAmericans with no medical coverage and with an expensive health care system that suks the odd you find someone from there are way higher.

There's a lot of 'medical tourism' in Mexico, India, South Africa, and Israel but while most of that (in Mexico anyway) is driven by the lower costs, it can also be driven by the kinds of unorthodox or unapproved treatments that these countries offer: Need a new liver and don't like waiting on some list? Hike over to xx country and BUY one! Have cancer and read about some new phytotoxin therapy that maybe can heal you for good? You know where to go. And don't get me started on phony "stem cell therapies"...

and bargain basement sex changes or lyposuction.

They are tightening up sales of prescription drugs and antibiotics slowly in Mexico, but still you can buy
just about anything from a pharmacist who is only interested in extracting money from touristos. The first
time I visited Mexico in the 80's everything was just sitting on shelves everywhere for you to buy (antibiotics, etc...)
One grocery store had cans of beans sitting beside a powerful drug that my partner recognised as being used in open heart
surgery.

and bargain basement sex changes or lyposuction.

They are tightening up sales of prescription drugs and antibiotics slowly in Mexico, but still you can buy
just about anything from a pharmacist who is only interested in extracting money from touristos. The first
time I visited Mexico in the 80's everything was just sitting on shelves everywhere for you to buy (antibiotics, etc...)
One grocery store had cans of beans sitting beside a powerful drug that my partner recognised as being used in open heart
surgery. :eek:

And just in case anyone gets an idea, while you can buy almost any kind of pharmaceutical drug in Mexico without much trouble, transporting that stuff across the border into the US without a valid prescription from a doctor HERE can land you in serious trouble. Not a good way to remember your trip to fabulous Mexico!

I don't see why you'd need prescription drugs unless there's something truly wrong with you.

I've never understood people with addictions to these things.

If it is cheaper to get the prescriptions in Mexico people from the States might want to buy them there. I don't think it is only illegal substance abuse, but people who need the drugs for medical reasons.

The only prescription I had a bit of extracurricular fun with were my Tylenol 3s... I had a whole bottle I didn't need, yet enjoyed taking just to get REALLY drunk, REALLY fast.

I was a stupid teen.

I actually quite enjoyed getting my wisdom teeth out. Those percosets were AMAZING!:banana::nuts::banana::nuts:

But alas, all good things must come to an end, and when my bottle ran out, I was sad to see them go, but I knew I had gotten my fun out of them. I dont have a very addictive personality. My friends think I'm crazy because I refuse to get drunk during the school year. Some people would go bonkers without their crutches, but I can wait.

Indeed.. It was all in good fun when I got my wisdom teeth out, except when I got dry socket.

When the doctor says don't smoke for three days after the surgery, he MEANS it.

If you are referring to Canada, I have never had to wait 2 weeks to see a GP (unless he was on vacation), and in fact if it is very important I have always been able to get in for a quick emergency appointment that very day. It would have to be a pretty mild ailment to have to wait 8 months to see a specialist. Those sound like some of the "statistics" that right wing American media likes to quote about the Canadian health care system in order to discredit it. :
They are examples of my first hand experience living in Montreal. I for one was lucky that I had a GP, most people I know had to wait in a walk in clinic for 3 - 4 hours to see some random doctor.

By the way, I thought you were very concerned about turning these threads into "us vs them" debates? :

My concern was for you turning it in to an us vs them debate, as I have read your objections to it a number of times on this forum, and would hate for you to come across as a hypocrite.

As for me, I am happy to compare different places around the world. Having lived in a number of different regions, I have valid first hand opinions.

Plus, there is nothing like a good spicy debate to get the blood flowing.

My concern was for you turning it in to an us vs them debate, as I have read your objections to it a number of times on this forum, and would hate for you to come across as a hypocrite.



Ah!! Thanks for clarifying things. I'll make a mental note never again to say anything that may touch a nerve with you, and make you inexplicably jump to incorrect conclusions that I am referring to Australia. That type of "spicy debate" makes your blood flow, but in the wrong direction! :)