Guys I know this is no politics forum but this is getting ridiculous those politicians are going backwards instead of forward.

What are your thoughts?
Who do you support?
Who do you feel should be the next PM?

I personally don't like any of the current politicians, I'm also worried that maliki is the next saddam but next door doesn't look so nice either becuase allawi is backed by many baathists..

make me president for life and I'll throw you a bone.

make me president for life and I'll throw you a bone.

Well now we Iraqis have a few questions for you, to see if you fit the part!

Do you steal money that is supposed to go to the public?
Are you going to be a regional puppet?
Are you going to make many empty promises?

If you answered yes, you have our vote.

Well now we Iraqis have a few questions for you, to see if you fit the part!

Do you steal money that is supposed to go to the public?
Are you going to be a regional puppet?
Are you going to make many empty promises?

If you answered yes, you have our vote.

Iraq is mine, I steal nothing but donate much to my subjects.
I will make Iraq the sabre of the Middle East
My word is the law. There are no promises. let alone empty ones.

start the hossa weelaad.

Iraq is mine, I steal nothing but donate much to my subjects.
I will make Iraq the sabre of the Middle East
My word is the law. There are no promises. let alone empty ones.

start the hossa weelaad.

Haha! where is my na3el when I need it!

But seriously this reminds of me Germany after world war 2.. Iran has influence in the south, sunni arab states have influence central and parts of the north turkey has some influence in the north and america oversees everything.. and the poor Iraqi people are lagging behind.

P.S: doesn't the west piss you off sometimes? how they defend Tariq Aziz just becuase his christian.

Iraq needs another 10 years to develop people's knowledge of "democracy" the role of government in running the country, the role of religion and tribes, and the quality of investigative and political journalism / media.

If Iraq manages to limp along until 2020, I think we will see a much more mature economic, political and social outlook among the populace.

I have already seen a massive improvement since 2003. - not quite there yet. But at least the tinge of arrogance has now been wiped off Iraq's tongue, so now they can get down and see their true problems. The gulf between Iraq and the rest of the world has also slowly penetrated the minds.

Of course people still haven't come to the right conclusions yet (even though many individuals have), but they will get there as long as the country doesn't collapse.

The current political parties will eventually evolve away from their clanish/nationalist/sectarian roots into typical "poor man" "rich man" "liberal man" parties / groups. I don't see a gap for a major new party to rise out of the populace though (which is unfortunate really, I wouldn't urinate on any of the current members of parliament / government if I saw them on fire).

as for tariq aziz and the rest of the gang. I would ban the death penalty now, and keep them locked up for life doing hard labour till their natural deaths - filmed on a webcam and broadcast on their own videoblog on youtube. I would also make them accept visits from families of their victims for 4 hours every day until they die, to discuss matters with them. I would do that not just to the baathists, but to all the post 2003 terrorists . militamen / politicians who committed crimes against humanity and embezzlement.

I agree, Iraq has improved since 2003, and as our army gets stronger the neighbors will back off also, though I hope the Iraqi army will be an Iraqi army and not a personal army.. Iraq is deeply divided and no one trusts each other, surprisingly though the religious/ethnic groups trust their regional 'friends' more, these idiots....

There is no question about whether tariq aziz should be banned or not, frankly I agree with you and he should suffer, it's just the fact that these westerns defend him and call him innocent with out actually knowing anything just becuase he is christian is really bugging me. Maybe we could put him in a fun fair, and through na3els at him, the children would enjoy it no?

Do you think the country will get split? Iraq has surprised everyone and pulled through, but we both know america has been the glue so far...

Splitting up of iraq is certainly a possibility.

If it does happen, lets hope its done peacefully at least and no deportations/ethnic cleansing takes place (I am thinking of a czech-republic - slovakia style split).

On the other hand, the various regions of Iraq do complement each other to an extent. Even Iraqi kurds have more in common with an Iraqi arab than a turkish kurd - something inevitable since arab-kurd interaction has been continuous for centuries (abbasid / ottoman / modern Iraq). Nobody lives in a vacuum. The only region of Iraq that can split away realistically is basrah, and that would be not due to any "ethnic" or "religious/sectarian" reasons... but purely for financial gain.


In my personal view, the main problems with Iraq are:
-use of oil money for current account budgets WRONG WRONG WRONG!!! Waste of our resources for a bread today!
-extremely subsidised electricity prices, stimulating excessive demand and stopping any energy economisation among the populace / industry.
-No electronic ID system to reduce small level corruption ("ghost employees", "hossa tamwiniya", "tax dodging" etc,..)
-Very poor quality of current affairs news / journalism and debates, keeps the populace misinformed.
-Illiterate uncouth political elite - though I would say this is symptomatic of the political immaturity of the populace.

Splitting up of iraq is certainly a possibility.

If it does happen, lets hope its done peacefully at least and no deportations/ethnic cleansing takes place (I am thinking of a czech-republic - slovakia style split).

On the other hand, the various regions of Iraq do complement each other to an extent. Even Iraqi kurds have more in common with an Iraqi arab than a turkish kurd - something inevitable since arab-kurd interaction has been continuous for centuries (abbasid / ottoman / modern Iraq). Nobody lives in a vacuum. The only region of Iraq that can split away realistically is basrah, and that would be not due to any "ethnic" or "religious/sectarian" reasons... but purely for financial gain.


In my personal view, the main problems with Iraq are:
-use of oil money for current account budgets WRONG WRONG WRONG!!! Waste of our resources for a bread today!
-extremely subsidised electricity prices, stimulating excessive demand and stopping any energy economisation among the populace / industry.
-No electronic ID system to reduce small level corruption ("ghost employees", "hossa tamwiniya", "tax dodging" etc,..)
-Very poor quality of current affairs news / journalism and debates, keeps the populace misinformed.
-Illiterate uncouth political elite - though I would say this is symptomatic of the political immaturity of the populace.

Well, I don't know about having more in common with an Iraqi arab then a Kurd from turkey, mainly becuase before the ME borders were drawn up I know I had family on the other side before the borders and we were known as just kurds and now I'm Iraqi and they are Iranian, but that doesn't bother me, I believe in forgive and forget, but I agree generally now a days we have more in common with the Iraqi Arabs simply becuase we live in one country, just like I have more in common with the Brits.

I hope that Iraq survives, but indeed the only region that will survive and survive very well will be the 'shia state' simply becuase they have oil+ports.. The kurds and Sunni Arabs will be at each others throats, the sunni will have borders with the shia but would most likely be hostile, it would have been nice for the kurds to have borders with the shia possibly through khanaqin then maybe they won't be landlocked... the Iraqis need a kick up their ass, they need to decide what they want if they want to stick with Iraq then do so, if their going to end up in a civil war and split, might as well do it peacefully.

Well, I don't know about having more in common with an Iraqi arab then a Kurd from turkey, mainly becuase before the ME borders were drawn up I know I had family on the other side before the borders and we were known as just kurds and now I'm Iraqi and they are Iranian, but that doesn't bother me, I believe in forgive and forget, but I agree generally now a days we have more in common with the Iraqi Arabs simply becuase we live in one country, just like I have more in common with the Brits.

I hope that Iraq survives, but indeed the only region that will survive and survive very well will be the 'shia state' simply becuase they have oil+ports.. The kurds and Sunni Arabs will be at each others throats, the sunni will have borders with the shia but would most likely be hostile, it would have been nice for the kurds to have borders with the shia possibly through khanaqin then maybe they won't be landlocked... the Iraqis need a kick up their ass, they need to decide what they want if they want to stick with Iraq then do so, if their going to end up in a civil war and split, might as well do it peacefully.

No No.

A shia state will never happen nor will it be successful if they tried.

The only "successful" seccession that I can see would be Basra. And they would split away from 80% of Iraq's shia arabs (as well as all the sunnis/kurds/christians etc..), purelly for material gain. They have oil+ports for export. All they would need is secure the services of a superpower to protect them. and BINGO $$$.

Nothing to do with nationalism / religion etc...

as regards relatives in other countries. You will find many non-kurdish Iraqis also have relatives in Khuzistan (iran), Kuwait, Saudi Arabia and Syria. Yet they are still Iraqis. But that is because for the last 80 years Iraq has been "defined" as an Arab state, with "accepted" minorities. rather than what it truly is... an amalgamation of the varied people of mesopotamia.

No No.

A shia state will never happen nor will it be successful if they tried.

The only "successful" seccession that I can see would be Basra. And they would split away from 80% of Iraq's shia arabs (as well as all the sunnis/kurds/christians etc..), purelly for material gain. They have oil+ports for export. All they would need is secure the services of a superpower to protect them. and BINGO $$$.

Nothing to do with nationalism / religion etc...

as regards relatives in other countries. You will find many non-kurdish Iraqis also have relatives in Khuzistan (iran), Kuwait, Saudi Arabia and Syria. Yet they are still Iraqis. But that is because for the last 80 years Iraq has been "defined" as an Arab state, with "accepted" minorities. rather than what it truly is... an amalgamation of the varied people of mesopotamia.

Yeah basrah will succeed, but I don't see why the other shia won't leave with them? at least Iraq is not named after one ethnic group like turkey... if Basra leaves us we're screwed, landlocked.

Yeah basrah will succeed, but I don't see why the other shia won't leave with them? at least Iraq is not named after one ethnic group like turkey...

I'm sure they'd love to leave with them. But why should basra take them? It would just make them poorer.

I'm sure they'd love to leave with them. But why should basra take them? It would just make them poorer.

More land and more people, they can relay less on super powers.

More land and more people, they can relay less on super powers.

not necessarily look at Israel

Iraq breaks deadlock, PM wins support for new term

BAGHDAD (Reuters) - Iraqi politicians appeared to have broken an eight month political impasse on Wednesday when the Sunni-backed Iraqiya alliance agreed to take part in a new government headed by incumbent Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki.

Maliki inched closer to a final deal to secure a second term on a day when bomb and mortar attacks targeting Christians across the Iraqi capital killed at least three people and wounded dozens of others.

After a meeting of Iraqi political leaders, a senior lawmaker from the cross-sectarian Iraqiya coalition headed by former prime minister Iyad Allawi told Reuters the bloc would join a Maliki government.

The decision offered hope that the next government would include enough Sunni representation to ease the chances of a return to the sectarian violence that killed tens of thousands of people after the 2003 U.S.-led invasion that ousted Sunni dictator Saddam Hussein.

Iraqiya will meet on Thursday to sort out lingering disagreements and choose a nominee from the party for speaker of parliament, said the lawmaker, who asked not to be named.

Parliament was scheduled to meet on Thursday for just the second time since an inconclusive election in March.

Iraq has been without a new government since the vote, which gave Iraqiya two more seats than Maliki's bloc. Neither had enough for a majority in parliament, leaving the factions to negotiate a government.

Iraqiya joins a Kurdish alliance in supporting Maliki following months of contentious negotiations that raised tensions in Iraq as the army and police try to cement security gains against a stubborn insurgency.

^^ finally! so when will the government FINALLY be formed? 8 months from now?!

its now not going to happen .

iraq has 1 only solution . divide in to 3 parts as kurds sunni and shia will never really work together there has been too much blood and lost of trust between the 3 nations

i vote for break up of iraq

^^ lol i vote not...and it will never happen maybe in another life time

iraq has 1 only solution . divide in to 3 parts as kurds sunni and shia will never really work together there has been too much blood and lost of trust between the 3 nations

i vote for break up of iraq

I don't wanna get into this topic, infact, I always want to avoid talking about these sort of things here because they lead to no where.

However, I just want to say that breaking up Iraq will NOT solve the current problems, in fact, it will create new ones..

It's a very naive way of thinking (keep in mind the breaking Iraq is not a popular option among Iraqis, maybe some areas in Kurdistan it's another story.. but not most of Iraq)

^^ +1

iraq has 1 only solution . divide in to 3 parts as kurds sunni and shia will never really work together there has been too much blood and lost of trust between the 3 nations

i vote for break up of iraq

Please keep your opinion for yourself.
BTW I don't know why a troll like you still not banned yet!

Please keep your opinion for yourself.
BTW I don't know why a troll like you still not banned yet!

I second that!

continuing from the baghdad stadium thread... http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1254625



we can't be "happy" about every project that the government announces (especially since about 80% of them are scams anyway). but even the projects which are commissioned many are completely irrelevant, whilst the BASIC building blocks needed as the foundation of a modern state are not being done... plenty of other issues like fuel subsidies/electricity subsidies/state wages/pensions/too many universities etc... all combine to make iraq a bit of a failed state (and we are near the bottom of the world for income per capita at the moment so whatever $ we have SHOULD be wisely invested rather than squandered on a combination of current account payments (too many state employees, fuel, ration etc...) and nonsensical projects (baghdad and basra stadiums etc...).

and we really shouldn't use saddam as the benchmark! benchmarks should be set at a HIGHER level. say, why not use Abdul Kareem Qassim? or even Bakr as a "benchmark"? It is sad to say, that even compared to Bakr, the current government is rather DISASTROUS! And its policies are emulating the failures of the past... using completely unrelated "examples" for their developments (dubai) and using the state budget as a combination of "private funds" for themselves as well as a "bone" to throw to the 40% of the population lucky enough to have a state job... leaving nothing for capital developments NOR a legal framework to encourage private investments!! A perfect storm of thievery and idiocy.

i outlined a few ideas here http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1260571

its just my opinion formed after working in projects in iraq for the last 7 years.

just been watching the parliamentary session on TV and listening to what's being said by the MPs.

As always, its just a "coffee shop" level discussion with a list of demands "for my lot". The level of debate of these MPs is lower than the falafel shop guys in baghdad jedide.


Second point. Now it has become apparent that EVERY party in the parliament is participating in the government!!! There is NO opposition in parliament (with the exception of Gorran who had a spat with KRG)!

So what kind of democracy are we going to have for the next 4 years exactly? I mean the 2006-2010 government the "opposition" (allawi's lot) were sulking in Amman and didn't come to parliament. In the 2010-2014 parliament EVERYONE is in government!

The ludicrousness of Iraq's parliament, politics, number of ministries, lack of opposition all combine together into a great big pile of XXXX.

Things can only get worse!

Please keep your opinion for yourself.
BTW I don't know why a troll like you still not banned yet!

why cos i speak my mind ! since when there is a limit on the freedom of expression ! plus most kurds in the north want to split you like it or not and its up to them to decide no one else to be honest .

I second that!

what i said above.

how ever i dont see the kurds split from iraq as yet. also there are outstanding issues between bahgdad and erbil that needs solving and it will be done peacefully we are going nowhere we will still be neighboring a new iraq. if kurds split its there right and there decision and i guess the rest of iraq can stay united .

I dont want the Arab regions to split but i want the Kurds to split if that what they want, I dont think shia oil should be given to the kurds, and nor do I want them to rule kurdish region but at the same time rule over the arab regions and be the king makers.

The fact is I hate violence, if the Kurds want to be independent, who are we to say NO.

And we must not silence those who have a different point, but AlanKurdi you need to make sure you take into account the sensitivity of others, for example I support your cause, but even though we are on the same side you can still upset me with your tones on earlier threads

PS- are there shia mosques in KRG???

I dont want the Arab regions to split but i want the Kurds to split if that what they want, I dont think shia oil should be given to the kurds, and nor do I want them to rule kurdish region but at the same time rule over the arab regions and be the king makers.

The fact is I hate violence, if the Kurds want to be independent, who are we to say NO.

And we must not silence those who have a different point, but AlanKurdi you need to make sure you take into account the sensitivity of others, for example I support your cause, but even though we are on the same side you can still upset me with your tones on earlier threads

PS- are there shia mosques in KRG???

The month of Muharram is commemorated throughout the Muslim world. Different emphasis is placed according to the two major sects of Islam - Sunni and Shi'a.


For the Shi'a, Muharram is associated especially with Ashura - the martyrdom of the Imam Husayn, grandson of the Prophet Muhammad, who was killed along with his family at the Battle of Karbala.

In Kurdistan, Sunni and Shi'a Kurds remember together.

Unlike much of the region, in Iraqi Kurdistan there are no designated Shia or Sunni mosques. There are of course various religious societies, but the houses of worship are shared without distinction.

The Kurds are overwhelmingly Sunni, but in Iraqi Kurdistan there is no record in modern times of any oppression of the Shia minority.

In a country torn by sectarian divisions, these scenes of harmony are unfortunately not as widely reported on as those of carnage.

But i heard a big shia mosque has been opened in Sulieymania

can anyone verify this, as for Kurds, i dont think i have ever met an anti shia kurd, all my kurdish friends in UK do latam even though they are sunni lol

the fact is when the baathist dogs were killing the kurds in the 70s, all the sunni arab imams were supporting that, but Grand Ayatollah Mushin Hakeem came out with a fatwa banning shia from fighting the kurds.

http://www.sciri.btinternet.co.uk/English/About_Us/about_us.html

But i heard a big shia mosque has been opened in Sulieymania

can anyone verify this, as for Kurds, i dont think i have ever met an anti shia kurd, all my kurdish friends in UK do latam even though they are sunni lol

the fact is when the baathist dogs were killing the kurds in the 70s, all the sunni arab imams were supporting that, but Grand Ayatollah Mushin Hakeem came out with a fatwa banning shia from fighting the kurds.

http://www.sciri.btinternet.co.uk/English/About_Us/about_us.html

Generally speaking kurds don't have the shia-sunni division, actual we don't mind religion (as seen in kurdish Jews still practicing their culture) (except for the radical scum but their a small minority)

Please keep your opinion for yourself.
BTW I don't know why a troll like you still not banned yet!

How so?
Why is his proposal offensive? Looking at Iraqs politicians, there are proposals to reunite Iraq with Jordan, melting all Arab countries into one larger Arab state, there are proposals for more federal regions by Arab Iraqi politicians, heck I do not see any objection to Turkmen claims of making a Turkmen country from Sinjar to Khanaqin.

Partitioning Iraq is not a selfish Kurdish desire as is being portrayed by many. In fact, the Kurds would not gain more than the Arab Iraqis would. Sadly, a lot of them are embroiled about Iraqi nationalism, and creating another hardline centralist Arab state. All the negatory remarks about self-determination are actually dismissed looking at how prosperous Kurdistan is for its dire geopolitical situation.

So please, proposing a three-state-solution is not half as offensive as branding Iraq as an Arab nation.

You have a point, the sooner Kurdistan separates from Iraq the sooner the Arabs will be more prosperous and powerful.

After that the sunni arabs who are the most destructive force in Iraq will be no more than 15% of the population

I dont mean the sunni people but their politicians who still dream of ruling Iraq and keeping their shia counterparts as slaves

wasta. the removal of the KRG from iraq, I would say is the most urgent item needed to resolve the inter-arab conflict in Iraq. It seems however that the Iraqi politicians continue to be successfully "divided and ruled" by a much smarter set of politicians in kurdistan. I think the iraqi politicians are still under some kind of illusion that iraq is "one state" which is very far from the truth. They are in a "one way" relationship with KRG who are simply milking them and laughing at them... oh how low the likes of maliki and allawi go... but its the fault of the muppets who elected them in the first place.

But of course removal of the whole KRG isn't a solution to Iraq's internal problems per se. It just removes an annoyance and lets everyone focus on the actual rebuilding of the state of iraq.

the removal of the kurds from the equation will force the sunni arabs to accept shia dominance, which will then force their politicians to play a non sectarian card to get elected to high office which then will make all Iraq think as one.

Also we will no longer have to pay 18% of oil revenue to the Kurds.

This will then make us a better democracy, I just wish Iraqis stop thinking the Kurds as part of us, the fact is they dont want to be a part of Iraq, full stop, let them seperate

wasta. One key issue is that Sunni arabs feel disenfranchised.

One key reason for that is that the number of ministerial posts given to Sunni arabs is low due to the fact that people from the KRG have "double representation" .

i.e.

they have their own parliament (where they run their affairs),
AS WELL AS
the Iraqi parliament (where they participate in the affairs of the iraqis - and are paid from Iraq's budget!).

They have their own independent ministries where they run their affairs
BUT ALSO
run the affairs of Iraqis and control Iraqi ministries (i.e. have control over people that never elected them in the first place - and milk Iraq's budget!).

This means that in effect for the past 6 years in Iraq Kurds have controlled themselves IN ADDITION to controlling Iraqi ministries for the rest of Iraq. I wonder if you can say I am unreasonable for finding this situation just slightly unfair on us?

Once KRG is finally removed from Iraq:

1-Ministries and positions they vacate can be filled by Iraqis (Sunnis and Shias).
2-It would get rid of one of the "international issues" Iraq has (that of Turkey's war against PKK) well
3-Increase the budget for Iraq by about 5-6% (which isn't much, but better than nothing).
4-Open up more positions for disenfranchised sunni arabs and Ex-Jaish al mahdi types in the armed forces that are now filled by KRG appointees (further reducing the fuel on the fire of terrorism).
5-Washing our hands from the KRG "oil contracts"
6-Hopefully allowing the setting up a 'kurdistan forum" on SSC!!! ;)

You have a point, the sooner Kurdistan separates from Iraq the sooner the Arabs will be more prosperous and powerful.

After that the sunni arabs who are the most destructive force in Iraq will be no more than 15% of the population

What difference does it make if the kurds leave to the sunni population? it's not like we're allied with the sunni anyway.

wasta. the removal of the KRG from iraq, I would say is the most urgent item needed to resolve the inter-arab conflict in Iraq. It seems however that the Iraqi politicians continue to be successfully "divided and ruled" by a much smarter set of politicians in kurdistan. I think the iraqi politicians are still under some kind of illusion that iraq is "one state" which is very far from the truth. They are in a "one way" relationship with KRG who are simply milking them and laughing at them... oh how low the likes of maliki and allawi go... but its the fault of the muppets who elected them in the first place.

But of course removal of the whole KRG isn't a solution to Iraq's internal problems per se. It just removes an annoyance and lets everyone focus on the actual rebuilding of the state of iraq.

Sheytan KRG may be abusing the divided Iraqi politicians (although we insisted the sunni participate in the government... understandably we can't put all our eggs in one basket or in this case maliki).. the KRG is however just asking for their rights based on the Iraqi constitution.. in this particular post you are come across 'pissed' off with the KRG, but all we're doing is asking for articles of the constitution to be implemented, but you are repeating things said by the USA (from wikileaks, so I don't know how much truth there is to it)

Wikileaks: US Sees Kurds As Seasoned Political Masters Likely To Expand Influence

Kurds Play Major Role in Iraq

According to the US embassy the Kurdish leaders are smart leaders. “Kurdish leaders such as Talabani and Barzani will likely exploit their political strength among Shia/Sunni counterparts to protect and expand Kurdish influence in a future government,” the report notes.

wasta. One key issue is that Sunni arabs feel disenfranchised.

One key reason for that is that the number of ministerial posts given to Sunni arabs is low due to the fact that people from the KRG have "double representation" .

i.e.

they have their own parliament (where they run their affairs),
AS WELL AS
the Iraqi parliament (where they participate in the affairs of the iraqis - and are paid from Iraq's budget!).

They have their own independent ministries where they run their affairs
BUT ALSO
run the affairs of Iraqis and control Iraqi ministries (i.e. have control over people that never elected them in the first place - and milk Iraq's budget!).

This means that in effect for the past 6 years in Iraq Kurds have controlled themselves IN ADDITION to controlling Iraqi ministries for the rest of Iraq. I wonder if you can say I am unreasonable for finding this situation just slightly unfair on us?

Once KRG is finally removed from Iraq:

1-Ministries and positions they vacate can be filled by Iraqis (Sunnis and Shias).
2-It would get rid of one of the "international issues" Iraq has (that of Turkey's war against PKK) well
3-Increase the budget for Iraq by about 5-6% (which isn't much, but better than nothing).
4-Open up more positions for disenfranchised sunni arabs and Ex-Jaish al mahdi types in the armed forces that are now filled by KRG appointees (further reducing the fuel on the fire of terrorism).
5-Washing our hands from the KRG "oil contracts"
6-Hopefully allowing the setting up a 'kurdistan forum" on SSC!!! ;)

Well this is how a federal region works, no? :S you control your regions affairs and also participate in the federal government, I for one is not against any other region with the same rights as the KRG.. there is a lot of unfair going on in Iraq if you want to start with that, like why a majority kurdish city that will win by referendum is still not with us and so on, or why we have to pay 5% of our revenue to Kuwait for saddams sins something that we had nothing to do with, infact we were the first victims and we haven't got any payments for that, adding salt to the wound don't you think? or how about sunni politicians saying 'the president should be an arab because Iraq is an arab state' you see??

the removal of the kurds from the equation will force the sunni arabs to accept shia dominance, which will then force their politicians to play a non sectarian card to get elected to high office which then will make all Iraq think as one.

Also we will no longer have to pay 18% of oil revenue to the Kurds.

This will then make us a better democracy, I just wish Iraqis stop thinking the Kurds as part of us, the fact is they dont want to be a part of Iraq, full stop, let them seperate

I don't understand :S your saying if you don't give us the 17.5% you will be more democratic? or if kurds are not there you will be more democratic? as far as I'm aware there are people like shia clerics that insist on banning things that make Iraq less democratic

the shias have already banned selling alcohol in Baghdad and they are removing college of art whats next !! god knows so is this the democracy you guys talking about without the KRG lol i dont see how the KRG is taking away Arab iraq's democracy?.. as for the the 17%, it is the share of oil is for been part of iraq , KRG is too to provide oil this time round , its not KRG's fault that Mr shahristani was a stubborn idiotic of a minister that blocked the KRG oil contracts ? , 2ndly once we separate we will have our oil including Kirkuk city as been proven to have a Kurdish identity historically , i say the sooner the Maliki government acts to solve the outstanding issue of article 140 with the KRG the sooner it will divorce iraq and get rid of all the headaches and international look downs iraq is seeing with the KRG been part of iraq . but of course they are blind and dunno what they are thinking in there heads i hope sooner or later realise its the only way that they are to solve article 140 so kurds can say bye bye to Arab iraq , and iraq will still have lots of oil in there land Basra the most and other parts so i dont see how and what they will lose? since Sunni arab will be part of them anyway!

on another hand kurds are/were closer to Shia than the Sunnis cos of the past not cos we are liked by our Shia brothers even tho we have kurds who are shia like the Faylis and KhanaQin town who want to be part of the KRG as well.

there is a Shia mosque in suli yes jalal Talabani built it in 1998 i was still living there at that time as a gift for the Arab Shias that were living in the KRG during that time.

even if the KRG divorces iraq , the leaders will stay very close as compared to surrounding neighbors like turkey syria and iran , KRG is more closer to there Arab brothers than any other nations in the region and maybe Israel 2nd. so even tho when it splits i reckon very close ties with newly formed iraq will be maintained. and the Shias will be holding power for like always and they do not intend to hurts kurds in any way as Saddamis did they are better than that thank God

I don't understand :S your saying if you don't give us the 17.5% you will be more democratic? or if kurds are not there you will be more democratic? as far as I'm aware there are people like shia clerics that insist on banning things that make Iraq less democratic

firstly, Kurds having their own country would force a better demorcratic state because the shia population of Iraq would be 85% therefore sunnis would be forces to play a non secterian card.

The oil that we give you can go on building more deprived areas of Iraq.

You should be happy that me and sheytan support kurdish independence,\thats what you want, right??

even if the KRG divorces iraq , the leaders will stay very close as compared to surrounding neighbors like turkey syria and iran , KRG is more closer to there Arab brothers than any other nations in the region and maybe Israel 2nd. so even tho when it splits i reckon very close ties with newly formed iraq will be maintained. and the Shias will be holding power for like always and they do not intend to hurts kurds in any way as Saddamis did they are better than that thank God


I completely agree, no matter what, we are linked. There is no ill feelings between the shia arab people and kurdish people

firstly, Kurds having their own country would force a better demorcratic state because the shia population of Iraq would be 85% therefore sunnis would be forces to play a non secterian card.

The oil that we give you can go on building more deprived areas of Iraq.

You should be happy that me and sheytan support kurdish independence,\thats what you want, right??

This is not about a kurdish country.

This about you saying that democracy is directly linked to bigger funds and indicating that the shia are more democratic then the sunni, like I said shia clerics are asking to ban cultural things and bars/drinking etc, so what are you talking about?

Sheytan KRG may be abusing the divided Iraqi politicians (although we insisted the sunni participate in the government... understandably we can't put all our eggs in one basket or in this case maliki).. the KRG is however just asking for their rights based on the Iraqi constitution.. in this particular post you are come across 'pissed' off with the KRG, but all we're doing is asking for articles of the constitution to be implemented, but you are repeating things said by the USA (from wikileaks, so I don't know how much truth there is to it)

kurd123. Well I am pissed off with the KRG... imho the iraqi constitution itself in its present state simply reflects KRGs dispropotionate influence in government (and this causes more antagonism with the sunni arabs for one thing).

I didn't know about this wikileak ;) thanks for letting me know I'm not a "lone madman" LOL :D

i am actually much more pissed off by the unbelievably blinkered nationalism of alankurdi and co than anything!! I mean if people like alankurdi actually ran the KRG it would be a smouldering ruin rather than a growing economy with beautiful towers and malls etc...

but certainly from the way I look at it, Iraq's government will eventually have to unilaterally remove the three KRG provinces from Iraq... then it will simply be a matter of "realpolitik" if KRG decides to declare war on Iraq in an attempt to achieve its "greater kurdistan" dream (which i doubt since the geographic, political and military equation is stacked heavily in Iraq's favour, forcing KRG to accept independence within the "three province" KRG in order to guarantee no invasion from Turkey and open access through all its borders. That's MY PERSONAL SPECULATION on the matter and based on the points below:
1-KRG being both LANDLOCKED and DEPENDENT on imported food must keep friendly relations with its neighbours and not the other way round.
2-Turkey would accept Kurdish independence within the 3-provinces since it won't have the larger size and increased financial clout to threaten the stability of turkey
3-Ditto for Iran
4-Other "friends" of Kurdistan like Israel and Greece won't be able to do much realisticly to help Kurdistan reach an outlet to the sea or force Iraq/Turkey/Iran to keep their borders open to trade? maybe I'm wrong on this one.
5-The US will maintain bases in Iraq through 2020 AT LEAST and the PROPER LARGE IOC US companies are invested in Iraqi oil in Basra and Missan (and not kurdish oil) so they won't be rooting to piss off the "bigger client" nor their Turkish allies.

Finally. One of the problems with some kurdish posters is that they are still "stuck in the past" with their thinking (its ok plenty of arabs are in the same boat!). But today Kurdistan's struggle is COMPLETELY DIFFERENT to the one Mulla Mustapha Barzani had in the past. Its no longer about wars and independence! its all about slick marketign, good laws for investors and friendly relations with EVERYONE and a good image across the world. Something that KRG politicians achieved well (and alankurdi's ideas would likely ruin in a single day!).

firstly, Kurds having their own country would force a better demorcratic state because the shia population of Iraq would be 85% therefore sunnis would be forces to play a non secterian card.

The oil that we give you can go on building more deprived areas of Iraq.

You should be happy that me and sheytan support kurdish independence,\thats what you want, right??

The Sunni Arabs, who have enjoyed the ruler position of Iraq since its foundation will not be fond of becoming a small minority. The Shia and Sunni Arabs clearly have a different agenda of what Iraq should be. Independence for Kurds means that they do not have anything more in common to work together. Kurdish secession desires have only united Shia and Sunni politicians.

Besides, if you insinuate that Kurds are halting progress in Arab Iraq, then we can just see this as typical BS. Oil dollars from Rumailah are lost in non-Iraqi Arab banks by well known figures from the ministry. Nobody is to blame for mismanagement and corruption in Baghdad, other than the henchmen of those in power.

Furthermore, none of us cares who is pro/anti Kurdish independence. We reject any tribal governance as was the case since 1920, and is still a threat to us as long as the state of Iraq exists. Therefore, we will be on alert as long as we are part of a larger political establishment.

kurd123. Well I am pissed off with the KRG... imho the iraqi constitution itself in its present state simply reflects KRGs dispropotionate influence in government (and this causes more antagonism with the sunni arabs for one thing).

I didn't know about this wikileak ;) thanks for letting me know I'm not a "lone madman" LOL :D

i am actually much more pissed off by the unbelievably blinkered nationalism of alankurdi and co than anything!! I mean if people like alankurdi actually ran the KRG it would be a smouldering ruin rather than a growing economy with beautiful towers and malls etc...

but certainly from the way I look at it, Iraq's government will eventually have to unilaterally remove the three KRG provinces from Iraq... then it will simply be a matter of "realpolitik" if KRG decides to declare war on Iraq in an attempt to achieve its "greater kurdistan" dream (which i doubt since the geographic, political and military equation is stacked heavily in Iraq's favour, forcing KRG to accept independence within the "three province" KRG in order to guarantee no invasion from Turkey and open access through all its borders. That's MY PERSONAL SPECULATION on the matter and based on the points below:
1-KRG being both LANDLOCKED and DEPENDENT on imported food must keep friendly relations with its neighbours and not the other way round.
2-Turkey would accept Kurdish independence within the 3-provinces since it won't have the larger size and increased financial clout to threaten the stability of turkey
3-Ditto for Iran
4-Other "friends" of Kurdistan like Israel and Greece won't be able to do much realisticly to help Kurdistan reach an outlet to the sea or force Iraq/Turkey/Iran to keep their borders open to trade? maybe I'm wrong on this one.
5-The US will maintain bases in Iraq through 2020 AT LEAST and the PROPER LARGE IOC US companies are invested in Iraqi oil in Basra and Missan (and not kurdish oil) so they won't be rooting to piss off the "bigger client" nor their Turkish allies.

Finally. One of the problems with some kurdish posters is that they are still "stuck in the past" with their thinking (its ok plenty of arabs are in the same boat!). But today Kurdistan's struggle is COMPLETELY DIFFERENT to the one Mulla Mustapha Barzani had in the past. Its no longer about wars and independence! its all about slick marketign, good laws for investors and friendly relations with EVERYONE and a good image across the world. Something that KRG politicians achieved well (and alankurdi's ideas would likely ruin in a single day!).

Which american companies are they? I wan't to know. Well when you say half provinces what do you mean? because a part of erbil is not part of kurdistan and part of Nineveh is! and kirkuk well we'll see how that plays out. Not everyone thinks like Alan.. and I surely don't rest my back on america or Israel for that matter, I doubt Israel would even openly recognise a kurdish state (due to their Palestine issue - but this may be different to Iraq becuase, Iraq does not recognise Israel so there is no reason that Israel should and therefore may recognise a kurdistan) a peaceful divorce could however mean that kurdish-Iraqi arab ties will still be decent.

I don't think Iraq would win against kurdistan in war on kurdistan, this however does not mean kurdistan would win and advance (looking at history saddams much more powerful army had problems against kurdish smaller forces, and so now I can't see a weaker compared to before army taking on a more powerful compared to before kurds).

AND EVEN IF THERE EVER IS INDEPENDENCE IT WILL ONLY HAPPENS WHEN THE KRG IS READY FOR IT, AND NOW NOW.. THIS BENEFITS US BOTH AS SOON KRG WILL ADD 150,000 BARRELS OF OIL TO THE OIL REVENUE AND INCREASE IT TO THE 1 MILLION GOAL, SOMETHING IRAQ ALSO NEEDS SO ITS A WIN-WIN

Sorry about caps, but I can't stress it enough.

the oil contracts in "Iraq" are by:

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSLDE61P02H20100226

RUMAILA

Britain's BP Plc (BP.L) and China's CNPC signed the first major post-U.S. invasion oil deal in November for supergiant Rumaila field, with estimated reserves of 17 billion barrels. The two companies aim to boost production to 2.85 million bpd from around 1.066 million bpd currently, and have accepted a remuneration fee of $2 per barrel.

BP said it would invest around $15 billion. BP has a 38 percent stake and its partner CNPC has 37 percent while Iraq holds 25 percent.

* WEST QURNA PHASE TWO

Russian energy giant Lukoil (LKOH.MM) and Norway's Statoil (STL.OL) sealed a deal for the supergiant, 12.9-billion-barrel supergiant oilfield in Iraq's south on Jan. 31. The partners agreed a remuneration fee of $1.15 per barrel and pledged to take production to a plateau of 1.8 million bpd.

Iraq holds a 25 percent stake, Lukoil 56.25 percent and Statoil 18.75 percent. Statoil has said it would invest $1.4 billion over 4-5 years. Lukoil put total investment at more than $30 billion. The firms would start recovering costs when output reaches 120,000 bpd.

* MAJNOON

The massive 12.6-billion-barrel Majnoon oilfield was taken by Royal Dutch Shell (RDSa.L), Europe's largest oil company, and Malaysia's Petronas [PETR.UL], which inked the final pact on Jan. 17. Shell officials have said the firms would invest "tens of billions" of dollars.

Shell has a 45 percent share, with partner Petronas holding 30 percent and Iraq 25 percent. The firms will receive a remuneration fee of $1.39 per barrel for boosting output to a plateau production target of 1.8 million barrels per day (bpd) from the current output of just under 50,000 bpd. Firms can start recovering costs once output hits 175,000 bpd.

* WEST QURNA PHASE ONE

West Qurna Phase One found no bidders in the first auction, but a subsequent competition behind closed doors led to a deal with Exxon Mobil (XOM.N) and Shell. The companies inked the final pact on Jan. 25.

The field has reserves of 8.7 billion barrels. The consortium aims to boost output to 2.325 million bpd from 279,000 bpd, and accepted a fee of $1.90 per barrel. Exxon has a 60 percent interest in the consortium, with Iraq holding 25 percent and Shell the remainder.

* HALFAYA

China National Petroleum Company (CNPC), France's Total (TOTF.PA) and Petronas clinched the final contract for Halfaya on Jan. 27, with a fee of $1.40 per barrel and a plateau production target of 535,000 bpd from a current 3,100 bpd.

Total holds a 18.75 percent interest in the consortium, and CNPC with 37.5 percent, Petronas 18.75 percent and Iraq 25 percent. Halfaya, situated in southern Iraq, has estimated reserves of 4.1 billion barrels of oil. The firms would start recovering costs when output hits 70,000 bpd.

* ZUBAIR

Italy's Eni (ENI.MI) sealed the final contract with Iraq on Jan. 22 for the 4-billion-barrel Zubair oilfield. Eni and partners, U.S.-based Occidental Petroleum Corp (OXY.N) and KOGAS, set an output target of 1.2 million bpd from around 200,000 bpd currently.

The consortium planned to invest over $20 billion and accepted a remuneration fee of $2 a barrel. Eni has a 32.81 percent stake, Oxy 23.44 percent, KOGAS 18.75 percent and Iraq's Missan Oil Company 25 percent.

* AL-AHDAB

The Chinese National Petroleum Company (CNPC) started work last March on the al-Ahdab oilfield in southeastern Wasit province after successfully renegotiating an old development deal that dated back to Saddam Hussein's government.

CNPC hopes to pump 110,000-130,000 bpd from the field, which has estimated reserves of 1 billion barrels.

* GHARAF

A smaller oilfield with 900 million in reserves, Gharaf was won by Petronas and the Japan Petroleum Exploration Co (Japex) (1662.T) in a fierce competition in the second round, and the deal was signed on Jan. 18. Petronas will hold 45 percent, Japex 40 percent and Iraq 25 percent, and will receive a fee of $1.49 per barrel. Gharaf has a production target of 230,000 bpd.

The consortium expects to invest $7-$8 billion. The firms can start recovering costs once output reaches 35,000 bpd.

* QAYARA AND NAJMAH

Situated in violent Nineveh province, where Sunni insurgents like al Qaeda remain active, the oilfields south of the provincial capital Mosul were won by Angolan state oil firm Sonangol. Qayara has reserves of some 800 million barrels and Najmah 900 million.

Sonangol signed the final deal on Jan. 26 and holds a 75 percent stake in the venture to exploit the fields. It would receive a $6 a barrel remuneration fee with a plateau production target of 110,000 bpd for Najmah, and a fee of $5 a barrel and output target of 120,000 bpd for Qayara.

The firm has said it will invest $2 billion in Qayara. Sonangol could start recovering costs once Qaraya hits 30,000 bpd and once Najmah pumps 20,000 bpd.

* BADRAH

Gazprom Neft (SIBN.MM), the oil arm of Russia's Gazprom (GAZP.MM), inked the deal for the Badrah field on Jan. 28 with partners Turkey's TPAO, South Korea's KOGAS (036460.KS) and Petronas. The consortium planned to invest $3.52 billion.

The field is near Iraq's border with Iran and has a 100-million-barrel reservoir. The firms accepted a remuneration fee of $5.50 per barrel and set a plateau production target of 170,000 bpd. Gazprom Neft holds 30 percent, Kogas 22.5 percent, Petronas 15 percent, TPAO 7.5 percent and Iraq 25 percent.

The firms would start recovering costs once they pump 15,000 bpd from the field.

DEALS THAT MAY YET EMERGE

* KIRKUK

Iraq is seeking a revised bid from a Shell-led group for Kirkuk, which is currently producing 350,000 bpd. Iraq had offered the field in its first auction of oilfield contracts in 2009 but received no acceptable bids.

In its initial failed bid, Shell envisioned a plateau production of 825,000 bpd. One of Iraq's older oilfields, it has estimated reserves of 8.5 billion barrels and is expected to encounter declining production rates faster than others.

* NASSIRIYA

Iraq aims to sign an engineering, procurement and construction deal for Nassiriya with a group led by Japan's Nippon Oil Corp. The largely undeveloped field is listed as having reserves under 5 billion barrels. Nippon has projected pumping up to 200,000 bpd in two years, according to Iraqi officials.

Iraq said on Jan. 27 that talks for the field would continue. Nippon 5001.T and partners, oil explorer Inpex Corp (1605.T) and plant engineering firm JGC Corp (1963.T), have been negotiating the deal for many months.

* MAYSAN

Iraq's Oil Ministry is negotiating with China's CNOOC (0883.HK) and Sinochem (600500.SS) for a service contract for the 2.5 billion barrel, three-oilfield Maysan complex.

The fields were offered in the first auction of oilfield contracts but not awarded. According to Iraqi officials, CNOOC decided to accept the proposed remuneration fee of $2.30 for every additional barrel of oil produced, compared with more than $20 per barrel it and Sinochem had originally sought.

CNOOC and Sinochem projected plateau output of 450,000 bpd.

Those are for the Service contracts.

Now the drilling contracts are by:

HALLIBURTON
SCHLUMBERGER
WEATHERFORD INTERNATIONAL

Iraq also has a Gas deal joint vernture with SHELL/Mitsubishi calling for the production of 2-4Bctf/day (and export as LNG from Basra).

these are the "Big Boys" in the international oil industry - and every single one of them has a stake in Iraq.

Contrast that with the small/regional players in KRG (except the one biggie SINOPEC) its glaringly obvious which one's the MUCH bigger pie for the international community to keep on friendly terms.

At least since KRG politicians are all very smart operators, I don't expect any conflict to arise. But I do fear that the incompetent "arab" politicians will concede too much to kurdish demands (this may not seem likely as the allawi+sadr axis with a cool 130 seats between them is against it, whilst the KRGs main arab allies, ISCI/hakim has barely 17 seats to back up KRG with).


Finally my suggestion is not about KRG "breaking off when it feels like it". On the contrary, I am suggesting that Iraq should break off from KRG now, whether KRG is "ready for it" or not is not really our concern to be honest... and if KRG wants to stay in Iraq then the rules and laws must be ammended to eliminate the "double representation" enjoyed by KRG citizens as well as the "additional funding" they recieve

then it will simply be a matter of "realpolitik" if KRG decides to declare war on Iraq in an attempt to achieve its "greater kurdistan" dream (which i doubt since the geographic, political and military equation is stacked heavily in Iraq's favour, forcing KRG to accept independence within the "three province" KRG in order to guarantee no invasion from Turkey and open access through all its borders. That's MY PERSONAL SPECULATION on the matter and based on the points below:


didnt you hear what massoud barzani said !! kirkuk is an iraqi city with a Kurdish identity , inshalla there will be no war so relax ur fanny a bit.
Arabs simply can NOT want to have kirkuk its always been a Kurdish city NOT AN ARAB CITY majority are kurds and therefore they wont succeed the KRG is not the same as it was before 2003 ;) . and if yous do then there is no difference with yous and saddamis not that you will succeed i guarantee you on this , as for turkey they have been shut up about kirkuk issue they have 20 million kurds and there occupied land to deal with..

there will be no war article 140 will be implemented eventually or the kurds will withdraw and i guess go in war to get kirkuk. god be with us.

as for your land-lock rants do worry for us its ok , really.

im sorry sheytan ur plans are off. article 140 will be implemented or the kurds withdraw support for the maliki government in the in 19 points paper signed by maliki. those disputed areas have a majority of kurds in them and i couldnt have said it better just like how the shia are majority and dominant its the same in these regions ;)

didnt you hear what massoud barzani said !! kirkuk is an iraqi city with a Kurdish identity , inshalla there will be no war so relax ur fanny a bit.
Arabs simply can NOT want to have kirkuk its always been a Kurdish city NOT AN ARAB CITY majority are kurds and therefore they wont succeed the KRG is not the same as it was before 2003 ;) . and if yous do then there is no difference with yous and saddamis not that you will succeed i guarantee you on this , as for turkey they have been shut up about kirkuk issue they have 20 million kurds and there occupied land to deal with..

there will be no war article 140 will be implemented eventually or the kurds will withdraw and i guess go in war to get kirkuk. god be with us.

as for your land-lock rants do worry for us its ok , really.

a couple of points.

1- real politik rules the roost.
2- From my personal perspective Kirkuk isn't really worth "defending" if KRG attack. But we will certainly close our borders if that happens (and I can expect turkey to be slightly less docile than us), meaning that its a "false economy" for KRG to fight for kirkuk (perhaps the partitioning of kirkuk would be a solution, with chemchemal / dibis etc... going to KRG and kirkuk / hawija etc... going to Iraq.
3-You need to look at things from IRAQ's perspective for once, for us kirkuk is not such a big deal as to have a war over it. but it will piss us of sufficiently as to close off our borders and oil/gas pipeline facilities... forcing Kurdistan to submit to whatever demands Turkey makes in order to survive.

Hmm seems like not many american companies in Iraq's oil? other than BP,shell and 1 or 2 others they all seem mid-rate players

Based on the companies you posted it's mostly chinese/russian/european in fact I read an article once saying that there are less american companies in Iraq then expected...

Some notably large companies in kurdistan

Sinopec: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinopec
Murphy oil (american): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murphy_Oil
Marathon (american): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marathon_Oil
Repsol (shown interest): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Repsol_YPF
RWE (GAS): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RWE
MOL (GAS): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MOL_Group

And most of the other companies are joint USA-UK companies and some owned by ex-bush era officials, so I'd say more USA companies in kurdistan than arab-Iraq?

a couple of points.

1- real politik rules the roost.
2- From my personal perspective Kirkuk isn't really worth "defending" if KRG attack. But we will certainly close our borders if that happens (and I can expect turkey to be slightly less docile than us), meaning that its a "false economy" for KRG to fight for kirkuk (perhaps the partitioning of kirkuk would be a solution, with chemchemal / dibis etc... going to KRG and kirkuk / hawija etc... going to Iraq.
3-You need to look at things from IRAQ's perspective for once, for us kirkuk is not such a big deal as to have a war over it. but it will piss us of sufficiently as to close off our borders and oil/gas pipeline facilities... forcing Kurdistan to submit to whatever demands Turkey makes in order to survive.

you dont understand 'kirkuk is non negotiable' meaning it will take what ever the KRG can to annex it back as majority of the city are kurds and its a kurdish city since the mede empire attacked ninevah 612 BC . would you give basra to kuwait ? NO. we cant do the same with mosel city , but some parts of mosel has majority of kurds and has been a kurdish city since ever . you need to understand 1 thing , those cities with majority of kurds means it has been that way since iraq was created as former iraqi governments tried to kick out kurds out of them and yet kurds are still majority , so i say the iraqi governments has learned the lesson and wont try anymore but just delay it , but sooner or later it will get to a point when kurds will take over if peace isnt an iraqi thing i guess. Turkey needs us more than we need them ( more of there officials come to KRG these days) . we survived iraqi and international sanctions didnt we ? this time tho it wont be international maybe surroundings so be it eventually the US & west will put pressure for our oil ;)

and read this it explains what i mean ...

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines05/1228-03.htm

Hmm seems like not many american companies in Iraq's oil? other than BP,shell and 1 or 2 others they all seem mid-rate players

Based on the companies you posted it's mostly chinese/russian/european in fact I read an article once saying that there are less american companies in Iraq then expected...

Some notably large companies in kurdistan

Sinopec: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinopec
Murphy oil (american): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murphy_Oil
Marathon (american): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marathon_Oil
Repsol (shown interest): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Repsol_YPF
RWE (GAS): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RWE
MOL (GAS): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MOL_Group

And most of the other companies are joint USA-UK companies and some owned by ex-bush era officials, so I'd say more USA companies in kurdistan than arab-Iraq?

you forgot them ---> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d40ZZBh4UVI

If the Baghdad government wants to be taken serious, it should be transparant to everyone. Until now, there has been no serious initiative to tackle corruption, stop sectarian-based policy making, start spending on its citizens and begin making a normal government. It took 8 months to form a government after the elections, I guess that's also because of the evil Kurds.

1- If corrupt politicians in Baghdad fail to feed their own people, it should not use the success of the Kurds to convince and turn their people against the Kurds to look for an answer.

2- Why are politicians in Baghdad so submissive to repaying Iraqs debt to its "Arab brothers" in the Gulf? But when we ask compensation for loss of life and material for Iraqi involvement in the 1948 and 1967 wars against Israel, there is no response?

3- Why should non-Arab citizens of Iraq pay taxes for politicians hosting and attending Arab League summits, who debate about creating a future pan-Arab state and sending money to Palestine?

you forgot them ---> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d40ZZBh4UVI

They are mid-rate now but with their potential 18+ billion barrels find they will be a big player one day.

Hmm seems like not many american companies in Iraq's oil? other than BP,shell and 1 or 2 others they all seem mid-rate players

Based on the companies you posted it's mostly chinese/russian/european in fact I read an article once saying that there are less american companies in Iraq then expected...

Some notably large companies in kurdistan

Sinopec: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinopec
Murphy oil (american): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murphy_Oil
Marathon (american): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marathon_Oil
Repsol (shown interest): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Repsol_YPF
RWE (GAS): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RWE
MOL (GAS): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MOL_Group

And most of the other companies are joint USA-UK companies and some owned by ex-bush era officials, so I'd say more USA companies in kurdistan than arab-Iraq?

The oil companies in Iraq are the "big ones" including Exxon which has the biggest field in Iraq (west qurna) as well as the other "big" players including Shell / BP / ENI etc... all the MAJOR players in the world.

The "supermajor" companies are :
BP p.l.c. (United Kingdom) (BP)
Chevron Corporation (United States) (CVX)
ConocoPhillips (United States) (COP)
ExxonMobil (United States) (XOM)
Royal Dutch Shell plc (Netherlands/United Kingdom) (RDS)
Total S.A. (France) (TOT)

highlighted are the ones who got contracts in Iraq. ConocoPhillips bid twice and lost (and will bid again). Chevron is negotiating for a new field as of today. Meaning that EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THE LARGEST OIL COMPANIES are invested in Iraq...

Similarly the drilling work in Iraq, Schlumberger has created a joint venture company with the Iraqi Drilling Company (50/50) to drill most of Iraq's wells. Heard of Schlumberger? The biggest oil drilling and exploration company on earth (also US based). Even its smaller rivals Halliburton and Weatherford are now heavily invested in Iraq (basra fields).

come on. With the "exclusivity" arangements they have with Iraq, it means that KRG is effectively locked out of working with any of the oil majors or the large drillers forcing it to accept working with the smaller players... I wonder what kind of uproar we'd hear from the KRG Fanboys if schlumberger or BP or Exxon or shell established headquarters in Erbil! (but they do have HQs in Baghdad and Basra without much commotion...).

all of this means one thing. That the "western world" is VERY heavily invested in Iraq and won't want to rain on their parade too much (every single one of the 5 security council members biggest oil firms are invested in Iraq... coincidence?)

For the points raised by partiya rast. Yes Iraq has a horrendous excuse of a government. We must start rebuilding our country and institutions from scratch, but we can't start until we get the random naggers with only one aim in baghdad out. Iraq must unilateraly separate iraq from kurdistan and that is it. KRG can then decide their own fate and stop nagging us all the time with non-stop demands demands demands and their never ending bickering with turkey into which they drag Iraq unwittingly. not to mention the double representation and funding! Enough!

Why is kurdistan still in iraq?? why? if you're in iraq then WORK FOR IRAQ and call yourself IRAQIS. if not, then LEAVE. End of story.

Well off course most majors will be in the south, there is more oil there! how much gas does arab Iraq have? as for your 'nagging' and why,why,why I also have a why, why did the Sunni majors say Iraq is an arab state and it should have an arab president and that a Kurd can never be PM?

P.S: if KRG and Baghdad sort out the differences there is no reason why the companies in erbil or Baghdad can't invest elsewhere in Iraq.

Well off course most majors will be in the south, there is more oil there! how much gas does arab Iraq have? as for your 'nagging' and why,why,why I also have a why, why did the Sunni majors say Iraq is an arab state and it should have an arab president and that a Kurd can never be PM?

Ask the sunnis!! LOL (i'm not a sunni! i'm a proper southern iraqi), I don't have a problem with an IRAQI being president or PM or anything as long as that person is LOYAL to Iraq and loves IRAQ. Perhaps they suspect Mam Jalal and co are only in iraq for "short term convenience" rather than actual loyalty to the state?

That is the issue really. I DON'T accept that iraq is an "arab" or "muslim" or "kurdish" state. Iraq IS and has ALWAYS been a MULTI CULTURAL entity, it is not an ETHNICITY based entity (whereas "kurdistan" by its very name is ethnocentric in nature, for example).

Ask the sunnis!! LOL (i'm not a sunni! i'm a proper southern iraqi), I don't have a problem with an IRAQI being president or PM or anything as long as that person is LOYAL to Iraq and loves IRAQ. Perhaps they suspect Mam Jalal and co are only in iraq for "short term convenience" rather than actual loyalty to the state?

That is the issue really. I DON'T accept that iraq is an "arab" or "muslim" or "kurdish" state. Iraq IS and has ALWAYS been a MULTI CULTURAL entity, it is not an ETHNICITY based entity (whereas "kurdistan" by its very name is ethnocentric in nature, for example).

It does not matter what Jalal Talabani is in for they were still said, majority of Iraqis don't have the same opinion, non-western ones at least and majority of arab-Iraqis think of Iraq as an arab country.

As for kurdistan, well 95%+ of the people are kurds where as in Iraq 70-75% are arab, but still I agree that it is a bit racist to force 'kurd' onto the other minorities in kurdistan, but unlike other states KRG recognises them all + their languages.

How much gas does arab Iraq have?

It DOES matter what mam jalal is in for. He's the PRESIDENT of IRAQ. He should be a 110% loyal Iraqi!!! Its actually ridiculous that this point needs to be mentioned! Would you want a Turkmen as the president of Kurdistan who's aim is to create an independent turkmen republic out of parts of kurdistan? (yes that's an analogy to ponder...).


Iraq's proven reserves are 112Tcf and "probable" are in the 250-300Tcf. Nothing spectacular compared with the likes of Qatar, Iran, Turkmenistan... but still enough for local power production, feedstock for plastics/aluminium production as well as small scale export via LNG in Basra, as well as to kuwait via the mothballed 400MMcf/day pipeline.

It DOES matter what mam jalal is in for. He's the PRESIDENT of IRAQ. He should be a 110% loyal Iraqi!!! Its actually ridiculous that this point needs to be mentioned! Would you want a Turkmen as the president of Kurdistan who's aim is to create an independent turkmen republic out of parts of kurdistan? (yes that's an analogy to ponder...).


Iraq's proven reserves are 112Tcf and "probable" are in the 250-300Tcf. Nothing spectacular compared with the likes of Qatar, Iran, Turkmenistan... but still enough for local power production, feedstock for plastics/aluminium production as well as small scale export via LNG in Basra, as well as to kuwait via the mothballed 400MMcf/day pipeline.

Just becuase I said it doesn't matter it does not mean he is not an Iraqi figure, he has stated so in numerous occasions how much truth there is in it I don't know, but the same can be said about arab-Iraqi approach to kurdistan.

its simple really , sort out article 140 let the ppl of kirkuk and other disputed to annex to the KRG areas and we are out

http://www.pukmedia.com/english/images/stories/hassannuri_thumb_medium291_171.jpg

Chief of Kurdish security forces known as Asaish, Brig. Gen. Hassan Nuri was rewarded on Monday by the Islamic Society for Reform and Peace, an Iraqi association.
The award, which was called dove of peace award, was given in recognition of the efforts made by Asaish forces to provide peace and stability and protecting people’s life and their properties.
The award was given in a ceremony in Sulaimani in attendance of head of the society, Sheik Ali al-Khafaji, saying his association gave annually an award to those figures who had a vital role in securing peace , stability and coexistence in Iraq .
Brig. Gen. Hassan Nuri was the fifth figure who received the award, including Iraqi president Jalal Talabani in the past.
For his part, the security forces chief appreciated the Islamic Society for Reform and Peace for the award, promising to keep contributing to the peace and security in the Kurdistan region and Iraq as whole.



http://www.pukmedia.com/english/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=6033:kurdish-security-asaish-chief-rewarded-for-his-role-in-security-&catid=25:iraq&Itemid=386

its simple really , sort out article 140 let the ppl of kirkuk and other disputed to annex to the KRG areas and we are out

or we just kick you out of Iraq :D even simpler. you seem to be under the mistaken belief that Iraqis are desperately clinging on to KRG for kicks? You simply can't even fathom the idea that Iraq will disassociate itself from KRG, the thought never actually occurred to you! I mean if we "arabce" are capable of carrying out the anfal, Cutting KRG off would be a piece of cake by comparison, wouldn't it?

since kirkuk actually ended up voting MAJORITY for Allawi I wouldn't be so sure about your assertion :D LOL

your "maximalism" is outstandingly outlandish in its one-bit logic with no foresight for consequences for actions! Truly shocking mindset.


here's another example from another thread.

its not upto iraq to detach itself from the KRG if the KRG wants this and they have said they do then its no1's bizo let alone turkey .

I mean, KRG has the right of "self determination" yes? OK.
So why doesn't Iraq have the right of "self determination" to kick KRG out?

or we just kick you out of Iraq :D even simpler. you seem to be under the mistaken belief that Iraqis are desperately clinging on to KRG for kicks? You simply can't even fathom the idea that Iraq will disassociate itself from KRG, the thought never actually occurred to you! I mean if we "arabce" are capable of carrying out the anfal, Cutting KRG off would be a piece of cake by comparison, wouldn't it?

cos arab iraq dont want that

since kirkuk actually ended up voting MAJORITY for Allawi I wouldn't be so sure about your assertion :D LOL


like our president said "kirkuk is non negotiable"

show me ur source and i will show u mine , majority of kirkuk residents are kurds so ur claim is automatically wrong and self made up. i seen the votes


I mean, KRG has the right of "self determination" yes? OK.
So why doesn't Iraq have the right of "self determination" to kick KRG out?

we were attached to iraq not vice versa , and have u heard the song , "what the hell are you waiting for" ?

10,000 Peshmerga in Baghdad To Protect Kurds From Possible Coup

http://www.rudaw.net/english/kurds/3388.html

cos arab iraq dont want that

I do, and most of the other "arabs" on this forum do, all my "arab" family and friends that I know do, ermm... in fact i haven't heard ANYONE saying we want kurdistan to be part of iraq for at least 5 years now!


like our president said "kirkuk is non negotiable"

show me ur source and i will show u mine , majority of kirkuk residents are kurds so ur claim is automatically wrong and self made up. i seen the votes

results of the 2010 general elections.

we were attached to iraq not vice versa , and have u heard the song , "what the hell are you waiting for" ?

You were attached by Britain not Iraqis. They didn't ask us if we wanted you :D (hint: they forced you on us) Therefore answer the question I posed:

I mean, KRG has the right of "self determination" yes? OK.
So why doesn't Iraq have the right of "self determination" to kick KRG out?

I do, and most of the other "arabs" on this forum do, all my "arab" family and friends that I know do, ermm... in fact i haven't heard ANYONE saying we want kurdistan to be part of iraq for at least 5 years now!


i have heard , go check out the iraqi forum aliiraq.org ;)


the 2010 results of general elections.

kirkuk council consists of majority of kurds , the governor and his deputy are kurds the main police chief is kurd and all the city police


* 26 seats 367 List Kirkuk Brotherhood List KBL (kurds)
* 8 seats 175 List Iraqi Turkmen Front ITF
* 5 seats 299 List Iraqi Republic Gathering
* 1 seats 178 List Turkmen Islamic Coalition
* 1 seats 289 List Iraqi National Gathering

Barham Salih, Prime Minister for the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan and the Kurdistan Regional Government said that Kirkuk was originally a Kurdish city; it belonged to Kurds rather than to the Iraqi government, and only its oil made it a source of tension and that's why "We have a claim to Kirkuk rooted in history, geography and demographics. This is a recipe for civil war if you don't [address its governance] right."We don't call these disputed areas, we call these areas that were sliced off."


finally a simple question , why has the iraqi government been delaying the referendum in kirkuk to be part of krg or iraq ? ;) . like i said they can delay it but cant deny it and eventually they will just give up;) .


Malik to Roll street journals , a US mag says "the referendum will take place for the sliced off areas to weather they wanna be part of KRG or iraq". and i cant wait for the results to shock you.


You were attached by Britain not Iraqis. They didn't ask us if we wanted you :D Therefore answer the question I posed:

I mean, KRG has the right of "self determination" yes? OK.
So why doesn't Iraq have the right of "self determination" to kick KRG out?

yes but like i said only few iraqis think like you but all kurds think like me ;)

i have heard , go check out the iraqi forum aliiraq.org ;)



kirkuk council consists of majority of kurds , the governor and his deputy are kurds the main police chief is kurd and all the city police


malik to Roll street journal , a US mag says "the referendum will take place for the sliced off areas to weather they wanna be part of KRG or iraq. and i cant wait for the results to shock you.

GENERAL ELECTIONS 2010. Not good enough for you? At the very least it shows that at least half the populace of kirkuk is AGAINST KRG. Are their views irrelevant as per the "non negotiable" stance :D Since this is the latest election in kirkuk its certainly the MOST RELEVANT and UPTODATE.

by the way, nothing will actually shock me, as you can see on this forum I do post on a VARIETY of topics related to Iraq therefore the status of Kirkuk/KRG is really not my number 1 priority unlike for you. But you must understand, that for us KRG/kirkuk is a "sideshow" and annoyance that we want to get rid off. So no "shocks" or anything of the sort. From my perspective the only useful thing in Kirkuk is 400k/day oil production feeding Baiji refinery and a little bit of export. Nothing more. I know that "parts" of kirkuk are pro-krg and other parts are "anti-krg" and in my view the best solution is splitting kirkuk up with the overwhelmingly pro-krg regions being allowed to join KRG, and the remainder remaining as part of iraq. So would you think that I would be "shocked" by anything? do you really think that KRG/kirkuk is important to Iraq like, for example, Basra is? It isn't! You're just an annoyance "in the north" for us.

yes but like i said only few iraqis think like you but all kurds think like me ;)


answer the question for the "people who think like me".

I mean, KRG has the right of "self determination" yes? OK.
So why doesn't Iraq have the right of "self determination" to kick KRG out?

GENERAL ELECTIONS 2010. Not good enough for you? At the very least it shows that at least half the populace of kirkuk is AGAINST KRG. Are their views irrelevant as per the "non negotiable" stance :D Since this is the latest election in kirkuk its certainly the MOST RELEVANT and UPTODATE.

83% counted, Allawi's list is winning with 168,348 votes compared to the Kurdistan Alliance with 167,976. Goran has 27,450 and the Kurdistan Islamic Union have 20,486.

That is 48,000 votes that could have gone to the Kurdistan Alliance, crushing the next competitor.

so its 215912 Kurdish votes vs 168348 allawi votes ;)

there you go thats 2010 votes as you can see kurds win if the votes combine and for referendum they will ;) and if turkmen didnt vote for allawi they would have lost anyway even tho they lose against total votes (167976+27450+20486) of the kurds not just PUK & PDK of 167976 which alone they alomst beat allawi and his followers.

answer the question for the "people who think like me".

I mean, KRG has the right of "self determination" yes? OK.
So why doesn't Iraq have the right of "self determination" to kick KRG out?

no1 said iraq cant do that but first iraq needs to fix the sliced off areas then decide or it will turn into a war but maliki is smarter then u and Saddam .

like i said referendum will confirm kurdishness if kirkuk hence the iraqi gov been delaying it but cant no longer the new gov was formed based on this demand by the kurds.

83% counted, Allawi's list is winning with 168,348 votes compared to the Kurdistan Alliance with 167,976. Goran has 27,450 and the Kurdistan Islamic Union have 20,486.

That is 48,000 votes that could have gone to the Kurdistan Alliance, crushing the next competitor.


there you go thats 2010 votes as you can see kurds win if the votes combine and for referendum they will ;) and if turkmen didnt vote for allawi they would have lost anyway even tho they lose against total votes (167976+27450+20486) of the kurds not just PUK & PDK of 167976 which alone they alomst beat allawi and his followers.

Post the 100% figures :D go on. You know it makes sense. Shock us all!


no1 said iraq cant do that but first iraq needs to fix the sliced off areas then decide or it will turn into a war but maliki is smarter then u and Saddam .


You said Iraq can't do that. But thanks for changing your mind! So we DO have the right to kick you out of Iraq!! Thank you for acknowledging our right of self determination at least!

Iraq can do what it wants as per its pleasure since it has all the "strategic advantages" including:
-International recognition as a nation state within its current borders (and thus it does not have to "negotiate" legaly how much of that piece it wants to "throw away").
-Oil fields of kirkuk are in the valley which favour Iraqi army's mechanised force, with a long line of sight for its Tanks and helicopters (which they have enough for this area at least).
-At least 50% of Kirkuk's population is PRO Iraq.
-Iraq, being an internationally recognised nation state, with access to the sea for its exports and imports and its water supply under no threat from KRG is under no real threat from KRG.
-Therefore Iraq does not have to start any war against anyone. All they have to do is kick out three provinces from Iraq. If KRG then "attacks Iraq" - all bets are off, and Iraq may have to ask for assistance from, Turkey to defend itself from a kurdistan invasion?

Map showing the list which won the most votes for every governorate. (from wikipedia)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/9/9d/2010_Iraqi_election_map.png/697px-2010_Iraqi_election_map.png

yes yes. just chop off the yellow dangly bits and we can have some peace and quiet finally. ;)

I see that Iraq is turning into a second post cold war Yugoslavia. Well done USA :ohno:

Here are the
http://www.myup4.com/uploads/12936169292.jpg

Just give them Kirkuk, whats the deal, we have oil in the south, Anbar most likely has oil, probably alot more oil will be discovered.

Give them Kirkuk and lets get done with it, let them split after that, for god sake, we need this to be sorted out once and for all.

I see that Iraq is turning into a second post cold war Yugoslavia. Well done USA :ohno:

I blame Britain myself :D

I'm sure we can rely on Turkey to help out its Iraqi friends and Turcmen brethren if they are attacked. :D

LOL (I am just winding alankurdi up, in case anyone is in doubt).

Just give them Kirkuk, whats the deal, we have oil in the south, Anbar most likely has oil, probably alot more oil will be discovered.

Give them Kirkuk and lets get done with it, let them split after that, for god sake, we need this to be sorted out once and for all.

yea. you may be right. Anything for some peace and bloody quiet!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPTKMclrSM0&feature=player_embedded

The Kurds are a good people, they just dont want to be apart of Iraq, full stop. Give them kirkuk, this will be better for the most loyal Iraqis and most decent who are the shia.

The shia will have total control which will be good for Iraq. We can then have a coheret government

yea. you may be right. Anything for some peace and bloody quiet!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPTKMclrSM0&feature=player_embedded

Just give them Kirkuk, whats the deal, we have oil in the south, Anbar most likely has oil, probably alot more oil will be discovered.

Give them Kirkuk and lets get done with it, let them split after that, for god sake, we need this to be sorted out once and for all.



^^ LOOOOOL u guys are talking and as if its in our hands :P
ok bro sheytan nd wasta , if it was in ur hands wat would u do ?

I already said what I would do! :D

I blame Britain myself :D

I'm sure we can rely on Turkey to help out its Iraqi friends and Turcmen brethren if they are attacked. :D

LOL (I am just winding alankurdi up, in case anyone is in doubt).

Well the Brits, and partially the French were responsible for partitioning the ME along unrealistic lines, but Iraq has managed to survive for over 60 years now, up until the USA decided to have a peek around in the region.

Turkey won't get involved in the conflict that may come, the current AKP government has a strong Kurdish voting base, and some of the most influential politicians within the AKP are Kurds (two of them my relatives through marital ties in my family), many of them having business interests in the KRG region, the most that will happen will be closing down the border due to fears of a refugee influx if a conflict should arise.

PS: I sympathise with the Iraqi cause but I know that my country neither has the power to intervene, nor imho should it intervene as it is an internal issue of Iraq. But my personal opinion is that Kirkuk (as a primarily Arab-Turkoman city) historically belongs to what is now Iraq, not what is now the KRG.

Give their their won country now

thank you wasta you do speak like our shia brothers :) . kirkuk khanaQin and some sliced off areas in musel which were done by the hands of Saddam will be sorted via non violent method which is the article 140 and Mr. Maliki already signed the paper to do so in this gov round . full stop

i saw a kurd in Amarah once. Take that too. just leave us alone!

i saw a kurd in Amarah once. Take that too. just leave us alone!

:D

What about Istanbul? The city with the highest Kurdish population :tongue2:

ohhhh... think about it?

Dusseldorf? Bonn? Frankfurt? maybe even Stockholm?

I think Alankurdi's kurdistan needs an entry similar to this http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Kazakhstan

a reworded version of Borat's "national anthem".
Kurdistan is the greatest country in the world.
All other countries are run by little girls.
Kurdistan number one exporter of oil and gas.
Other countries have inferior oil and gas.

Kurdistan home of Sarcanar swimming pool,
Its length thirty metre and width six metre.
Filtration system a marvel to behold.
It remove 80 percent of human solid waste.

Kurdistan, Kurdistan, you very nice place,
From plains of Kuwait to Northern fence of Hamburg.
Kurdistan friend of all except Turkey.
They very nosey people with bone in their brain.

Kurdistan industry best in the world.
We invented toffee and trouser belt.
Kurdistan’s mountains greenest in the region.
Except of course for Greece’s

Kurdistan, Kurdistan, you very nice place.
From plains of Kuwait to Northern fence of Hamburg.

here is the proof of kurdishness of kirkuk , there a different of kurds living in a place and a kurdishness of that place , dont mix $hit up sheytan and turknology. there are turkmen who came to kirkuk as military recruits in 1055 they are more than welcomed to go back to where they came from if they are not happy about it been part of the KRG but that doesn't mean they will be forced to leave. those Sunni Arabs living in hawija came from Tikrit to kirkuk they are called "3ashar talaf" which i been told means they came to the city over the past years in other words they arent origins of the city either. i am not against them living in kirkuk or participate in ruling as long as they dont oppose kirkuk been part of kg which i seen they have been so i guess when it annexes to KRG they will willingly eventually leave ;) .but since they arent origins of the city i dont think they should have a say in even weather kirkuk should be annex to KRG or not.

Originally the city was founded by Hurrian-related Zagros-Taurus dwellers who were known as Gutian people by lowland-dwellers of Southern Mesopotamia. Under its ancient name Arraphkha, Kirkuk was capital of Kingdom of Gutium which is mentioned in cuneiform records about 2400 BC.

^^

continue to read on. establishing a village that later was turned into a city by others suddenly makes it yours?

Anyway, only the historic context of the matter interests me, otherwise if Kirkuk was annexed by the KRG it is of no personal concern of mine as I don't live there nor neither plan to.

its not up to you sheyan what u wish ,Mr. Maliki already agreed on article 140 which means a referendum will be held and this is the reason Sunni Arabs and turkmen oppose it as they know they stand no chance against total votes of the kurds all combined. and the other sliced off areas were all linked to dunok and kirkuk but because they have majority of kurds Saddam sliced them off and played with there demographics , if sheytan wants to argue about there kurdistaniness then he is no different to saddami

here is the proof of kurdishness of kirkuk , there a different of kurds living in a place and a kurdishness of that place , dont mix $hit up sheytan and turknology.

Ah The Kurds are The Guti? That means ALL of Iraq belongs to them since the Guti overran all of mesopotamia after the collapse of the akkadian empire!! ALANKurdi why are you such a TRAITOR to Kurdistan and not claiming the RIGHTFUL parts of Gutia including all the lands down to Ur and Nina (Nassiriya and Amarah)!

there are turkmen who came to kirkuk as military recruits in 1055 they are more than welcomed to go back to where they came from if they are not happy about it been part of the krg ,

already planning the ethnic cleansing!!

those sunni arabs living in hawija came from tikrit in kirkuk they are called "3ashar talaf" which i been told means they came to the city in other words they dont belong there.

I see Judge Dredd. So what should happen?

i am not against them living in kirkuk or participate in ruling as long as they dont oppose kirkuk been part of kg which i seen they have been so i guess when it annexes to krg they will eventually leave ;)

Ok, more "ethnic cleansing". :D Imagine if I thought of using that logic for people who live in Iraq?


I must say you're making great plans!! ;)

what i mean is i dont support kicking anyone out by force , if they volunteer thats what i mean if they are not happy with those sliced off areas which were done by saddam to annex to there origin demographics, specially he kicked 1000s of kurds to other kurdish city there use to be so many kikuki refugees in suli and erbil pre-2003 iraq invasion. so if this guy supports what saddam did then he is no different o his and his evil acts and therefore will be added to ignore list and isnt worth replying to his bunch of silly posts.

there are turkmen and christians living in erbil they speak n practice there culture freely and even have representative in the krg parliament , no1 kicked them out and they wont go newhere else to live as krg is the safest to live in for them in the north.

the turkmen front party in kirkuk is supported by turkey they have said themselvs in many occasions hence they oppose kirkuk to annex to KRG but turkmen living in Erbil are the opposite of them. why? ask yourselves pls.

its not up to you sheyan what u wish ur a no body , Maliki already agreed on article 140 which means a referendum wiill be held and this is the reason arabs and turkmen oppose it as they know they stand no chance against total votes of the kurds all combined. and the other sliced off areas were all linked to dunok and kirkuk but bcoasue they have majority of kurds saddam sliced them off and played with there demographics , if sheytan wants to argue about there kurdistaniness then he is no different to saddami and means he will not be welcomed in the krg by all means.

I distinctly remember that the "biggest" investor in KRG "mass group" is run by baathists and former leaders of "Saddam's knights" (jash) who participated in the anfal genocide against their fellow kurds. THey get the red carpet treatment in Erbil International airport... so why should Sheytan, an exile from Iraq, from the south (long oppressed by the baathists) who's uncle was fighting in Peshmerga for 8 years in Kurdistan and was honoured as hero of kurdistan by Barzani personally is not welcome?

Just because I think your "Kurdistan STRONG!!!1" idea is completely ridiculous and am poking fun at it?

wasta im curious which part of south are you from :)

Hi Alan

Well Iam Baghdadi from around 100 yrs ago, before that it was Wassit, they moved to Baghdad around 100 yrs ago, i know my famiyl history lol

oh yeah i know lots of shia live in baghdad , i wish you n ur family the best and kurds need more friendly Arab brothers like you :) . i have a friend his name is zergam he thinks exactly like you he is from wassit

Well the Brits, and partially the French were responsible for partitioning the ME along unrealistic lines, but Iraq has managed to survive for over 60 years now, up until the USA decided to have a peek around in the region.

Turkey won't get involved in the conflict that may come, the current AKP government has a strong Kurdish voting base, and some of the most influential politicians within the AKP are Kurds (two of them my relatives through marital ties in my family), many of them having business interests in the KRG region, the most that will happen will be closing down the border due to fears of a refugee influx if a conflict should arise.

PS: I sympathise with the Iraqi cause but I know that my country neither has the power to intervene, nor imho should it intervene as it is an internal issue of Iraq. But my personal opinion is that Kirkuk (as a primarily Arab-Turkoman city) historically belongs to what is now Iraq, not what is now the KRG.

You guys don't realise that a couple of smart politics and we can start a regional war, don't forget there are kurds in all 4 countries ;) in turkey alone there are 5-10 million kurdish nationalist that can be motivated to start a full scale uprising, so turkey would think twice before invading or helping the 300k turkmen in Iraq.

And kirkuk has a majority kurdish people! historically it's kurdish!! turks invaded it 1000 years ago, we outdated that.

The last elections Arabs cheated big time and still got less (overall) votes than kurds, but thankfully in 2005 there was a referendum on the constitution something arab and turkmen said no to 100% and let's have a look at the results shall we?

Kikrkuk - 62.91% said yes and 37.09% said no you see?!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraqi_constitutional_referendum,_2005

IF KIRKUK WAS NOT A MAJORITY KURDISH CITY THE REFERENDUM WOULD HAVE PASSED BY NOW SO STOP BEING KIDS AND TRYING TO CONVINCE YOURSELF THAT WE ARE NOT A MAJORITY.

You convinced me kurd123.

so the population of "non kurds" is between 37.09% (lower figure from 2005 - perhaps reflecting lower turnout?) and 50% (2010 election figure - perhaps reflecting cheating on the parts of arabs/turkmen).

We give you kirkuk to get rid of the aggro (but close our borders in protest).

what happens to those people (the ones in KRG who want to be Iraqis)?

what happens to KRG? with Iraq's border closed, they are forced to rely on Turkey for their exports and imports (without which, we both know KRG would collapse - from food shortage if nothing else). What will be the deal that KRG comes to with Turkey to keep the borders/pipelines open?

I am curious to know the actual end-game rather than anything.

You convinced me kurd123.

so what happens to the 37.9% who don't want to be part of KRG?

Sheytan this is entirely their choice no one is forced to leave or stay, they chose as they wish, I would only like to solve the kirkuk issue in a peaceful way.

You convinced me kurd123.

so the population of "non kurds" is between 37.09% (lower figure from 2005 - perhaps reflecting lower turnout?) and 49% (2010 election figure - perhaps reflecting cheating on the parts of arabs/turkmen).

We give you kirkuk to get rid of the aggro (but close our borders in protest).

what happens to those people (the ones in KRG who want to be Iraqis)?

what happens to KRG? with Iraq's border closed, they are forced to rely on Turkey for their exports and imports (without which, we both know KRG would collapse - from food shortage if nothing else). What will be the deal that KRG comes to with Turkey to keep the borders/pipelines open?

I am curious to know the actual end-game rather than anything.

The KRG-Turkey deal would most likely be a deal to never lay claims on kurdish lands in turkey (they only want it becuase there is water there) in return turkey could keep border open and give kurds there more rights (something AKP is working on) - this in turn would be a win-win situation becuase turkey would want to transport our gas/oil to Europe and make some money.

But come on we're not going to leave Iraq unless you kick us out or by war, lol.

For the kirkukis, Like I said they can stay or leave, but I doubt we'll oppress them in terms of language.. there are quite a few only turkish schools in kurdistan already and turkmen in KRG call for kirkuk to be added to us

And kirkuk has a majority Kurdish people! historically it's Kurdish!! turks invaded it 1000 years ago, we outdated that.

The last elections Arabs cheated big time and still got less (overall) votes than kurds, but thankfully in 2005 there was a referendum on the constitution something arab and turkmen said no to 100% and let's have a look at the results shall we?

Kikrkuk - 62.91% said yes and 37.09% said no you see?!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraqi_constitutional_referendum,_2005

IF KIRKUK WAS NOT A MAJORITY KURDISH CITY THE REFERENDUM WOULD HAVE PASSED BY NOW SO STOP BEING KIDS AND TRYING TO CONVINCE YOURSELF THAT WE ARE NOT A MAJORITY.

no need to stress over few bogans , facts speak for themselves and the iraqi gov knows that very well even during saddam thats why he kicked out 1000s of kurds and replaced them with arabs but he failed and they will continue to fail , but i guess now they have realized they just cant win and Massoud barzani said it to them all at the PDK conference that "kirkuk is non negotiable and we have taken a peaceful way to solve the issue" including a turkish gov rep . so i wouldn't be too worried ;)

The KRG-Turkey deal would most likely be a deal to never lay claims on kurdish lands in turkey (they only want it becuase there is water there) in return turkey could keep border open and give kurds there more rights (something AKP is working on) - this in turn would be a win-win situation becuase turkey would want to transport our gas/oil to Europe and make some money.

But come on we're not going to leave Iraq unless you kick us out or by war, lol.

For the kirkukis, Like I said they can stay or leave, but I doubt we'll oppress them in terms of language.. there are quite a few only turkish schools in kurdistan already and turkmen in KRG call for kirkuk to be added to us

I see. So with Iraq's border closed, KRG would be forced to accept whatever "fraction" Turkey asks of it for transporting the oil/gas out, as well as whatever "levies" they place on food imports?

no need to stress over few bogans , facts speak for themselves and the iraqi gov knows that very well even during saddam , but i guess now they have realized they just cant win and Massoud barzani just told them all at the PDK conference that "kirkuk is non negotiable" including a turkish gov rep . so i wouldn't be too worried ;)

do mind your language.

You seem to be at a complete tangent and seemingly not actually read my posts with your hysterical replies. You do realise that in a 'game' there's more than one player?

I see. So with Iraq's border closed, KRG would be forced to accept whatever "fraction" Turkey asks of it for transporting the oil/gas out, as well as whatever "levies" they place on food imports?

Maybe not so much anything turkey puts forward but somewhere in the middle, don't forget that turkey knows very well they can't absorb us they won't keep with it and actually it would be a pivot for a greater kurdistan, and so turkey knows they will need to meet us in the middle, turkey is a big gas importer herself and she also want's to let the EU gas pipeline run through her, so our gas would come in use. Iran might not be happy about it but I doubt they will do much, their already walking on thin ice.

I believe the folks in Baghdad know a little bit more than you and understand that war/letting KRG go would not be as unfortunate on the KRG as you believe, don't forget there are some groups that would love a kurd-arab war in Iraq and would take advantage groups like (ansar, sunni nationalists, and other small groups). also without the kurds the shia (maliki) would be in weaker position.

what are all these silliness about ? im from kirkuk and kirkuk has always been a majority Kurdish city . during saddam empire he forced 1000's of kurds from the city to the KRG and brought in Arabs to replace them so that even after his death kurds continue to have issues with the city the a.hole . :bash:

i was born in kirkuk my family are all kirkukians so have my great great great ancestors , and they have told us turkmen are our brothers who came during ottoman empire we embraced them and took them in but i think it was a big mistake they should have turned them away after the ottoman empire took off. a mistake that we stil pay for til today , as for our Arab brothers you are most welcomed as well to live with us but please do not mix up the facts and our history in the city we took yous in and now we have a right to decide where we wanna be after so many years of agony from iraqi governments and if you do not like that hen i guess its your choices and noone will ask you to leave . currently there are lots of Arabs that live in the KRG and no one is asking them to leave? ?

is bogan a bad word :S?

anyways Turkey needs the KRG more than anything and Kurds in south have already emphasized that they aren't interested in interfering with the kurds up north its for them both to sort out peacefully and i think turkey after so many years of opposing the Kurdish right is finally giving in even tho its on a small scale but hey everything big stats from something small.

Maybe not so much anything turkey puts forward but somewhere in the middle, don't forget that turkey knows very well they can't absorb us they won't keep with it and actually it would be a pivot for a greater kurdistan, and so turkey knows they will need to meet us in the middle, turkey is a big gas importer herself and she also want's to let the EU gas pipeline run through her, so our gas would come in use. Iran might not be happy about it but I doubt they will do much, their already walking on thin ice.

I believe the folks in Baghdad know a little bit more than you and understand that war/letting KRG go would not be as unfortunate on the KRG as you believe, don't forget there are some groups that would love a kurd-arab war in Iraq and would take advantage groups like (ansar, sunni nationalists, and other small groups). also without the kurds the shia (maliki) would be in weaker position.

that is true, of course. I would much more think that turkey could simply close its borders, and it certainly doesn't need KRG gas fees as much as KRG needs an outlet to get cash and food in. The "geopolitical equation" is very much lopsided in favour of Turkey in this instance so "meeting in the middle" is a choice between "embargo" and "punitive levies" (in my humble opinion!)

^^ its funny so many ppl suggested turkey invading the KRG after 2003 on many forums i never saw these negative opinions work out in others favor against the KRG cos God exists ;)

although i would like to have our goods brought in from newly created Iraq rather than turkey and i think the KRG reps in Baghdad are doing fine in convincing their Arab brothers not to put embargo when it divorces Iraq.

oh yeah i know lots of shia live in baghdad , i wish you n ur family the best and kurds need more friendly Arab brothers like you :) . i have a friend his name is zergam he thinks exactly like you he is from wassit

My parents live in Erbil and they say great things about the Kurdish people.
At the end of the day, one must not kill to force a people to remain apart a nation.

I also have Kurdish friends, one of them is a part of Barazani's party. He hates sunni arabs even though he is sunni himself.

My mum once said to him, why do you hate sunni arabs only, shia arabs make mistakes as well, his reply was this, "shia do make mistakes, but they dont kill"

that is true, of course. I would much more think that turkey could simply close its borders, and it certainly doesn't need KRG gas fees as much as KRG needs an outlet to get cash and food in. The "geopolitical equation" is very much lopsided in favour of Turkey in this instance so "meeting in the middle" is a choice between "embargo" and "punitive levies" (in my humble opinion!)

That is also true, off course it's in their favor, however would they want a hostile Kurd nation on their side? it will eventually fuel up the 15-20 million (with a fast growing numbers) of their on kurdish population to explode, I'd like to think that turkey would much rather sit at a table and negotiate a win-win situation where we drop all our claims (who knows they might give us some small land with no water in it,lol), also a 'peace with kurds' situation would pave the way to EU admission possibly.

^^ i agree with you 100% , we kurds have suffered alot from the hands of the Sunnis and as you can see even till today we are paying for it as can been seen in kirkuk and the unfairness he did against kurds is just disturbing.

is bogan a bad word :S?



my bad! so it shall be your nick from now on "alanbogan" ;)

That is also true, off course it's in their favor, however would they want a hostile Kurd nation on their side? it will eventually fuel up the 15-20 million (with a fast growing numbers) of their on kurdish population to explode, I'd like to think that turkey would much rather sit at a table and negotiate a win-win situation where we drop all our claims (who knows they might give us some small land with no water in it,lol), also a 'peace with kurds' situation would pave the way to EU admission possibly.

I agree 100% with you. But the "details" of what "win-win" means in this instance is what I don't agree with. IMHO. KRG would win independence and food/cash. Turkey would win a windfall in fees, which also ensures that "South Kurdistan" never has the economic clout to try any adventures north...

then the question from the KRG "strategist" aspect becomes a choice of which "deal" is more palatable:
1- Insisting on incorporating all of kirkuk and oilfields in KRG. Get more "oil resources that way, but with the negative of breaking off relations with Iraq and paying the financial penalty to Turkey as a result (monopolisation of access to market).
2- Accepting a 50/50 solution to Kirkuk with Iraq and then having a choice of export routes for oil/gas as well as import routes for produce... this reduces KRGs oil resources BUT also drastically reduces its cost of doing business.
3-Deciding to stay as part of Iraq (for real, not "temporarily") with the negatives that "Kurds" won't have their own nation statem but the positive of sharing in the oil wealth of the entire country with no potential ambiguities.

I agree 100% with you. But the "details" of what "win-win" means in this instance is what I don't agree with. IMHO. KRG would win independence and food/cash. Turkey would win a windfall in fees, which also ensures that "South Kurdistan" never has the economic clout to try any adventures north...

Possibly not, however would Iran/Iraq stay hostile towards kurdistan forever? I doubt it.. the way I see it (both Iran and Turkey are competing in kurdistan now) if Kurdistan does become a state and Turkey keeps the door open, I see Iran doing so after a while also, or possibly even Iraq?

I agree 100% with you. But the "details" of what "win-win" means in this instance is what I don't agree with. IMHO. KRG would win independence and food/cash. Turkey would win a windfall in fees, which also ensures that "South Kurdistan" never has the economic clout to try any adventures north...

then the question from the KRG "strategist" aspect becomes a choice of which "deal" is more palatable:
1- Insisting on incorporating all of kirkuk and oilfields in KRG. Get more "oil resources that way, but with the negative of breaking off relations with Iraq and paying the financial penalty to Turkey as a result (monopolisation of access to market).
2- Accepting a 50/50 solution to Kirkuk with Iraq and then having a choice of export routes for oil/gas as well as import routes for produce... this reduces KRGs oil resources BUT also drastically reduces its cost of doing business.
3-Deciding to stay as part of Iraq (for real, not "temporarily") with the negatives that "Kurds" won't have their own nation statem but the positive of sharing in the oil wealth of the entire country with no potential ambiguities.

They seem like decently honest options, in my view a mix of 2 and 3 is quite good where KRG stays put and keeps kirkuk (however all revenues go back to Baghdad to share).. If not I'd go with number 2, it seems quite fair to share the oil of kirkuk back get kirkuk back at the same time.

I wouldn't fight over half of kirkuks oil since Kurdistan has a fair amount of oil anyway.

i am also of the view that Number 2 is one of the most realistic scenarios.

Number 1 would just open a can of worms in the region.

Number 3 would ensure that the KRG government is overthrown by an angry nationalist mob in Erbil (no doubt led by alankurdi!).

i am also of the view that Number 2 is one of the most realistic scenarios.

Number 1 would just open a can of worms in the region.

Number 3 would ensure that the KRG government is overthrown by an angry nationalist mob in Erbil (no doubt led by alankurdi!).

Lol, the population don't think for them selves and pretty much put all their trust in politicians, that's the most common answer I got at least when asking around erbil.

i go with no 1 since this guy doesnt speak for the iraqi gov and maliki has already agreed to solve the issue which means referendum for kirkuk . and the politicians are massoud barzani and barham saleh , both say "kirkuk is non nego". iraq has lots of oil excluding kurdsih city of kirkuk thats why its non nego.

my bad! so it shall be your nick from now on "alanbogan" ;)

i think it goes better with ur nick , sheytanbogan ;)

we should have kirkuk it is our rightful to annex it to KRG under article 140 which has been set to be implemented within 2 years in the 19 points paper, like i said Saddam tried and failed so i think it will be the same for next 100 years so why not give up now ?

i think it goes better with ur nick , sheytanbogan ;)

look mind your manners. you don't know how old I am or what "class" I am nor what my education is. So mind your manners because your typing is only reflecting on your own "class". Its not particularly difficult to insult people, and I hope you realise its well within my ability to insult you quite assiduously, the fact that I maintained semi-civilised conversation with you should be seen as a sign of at least respecting your existence as a human. You should have the courtesy to reciprocate that.

Finally, before replying to me on any threads do at the very least READ my writing (what I actually write, not what you "imagine" I write) and reply to my actual words, because in this thread for instance I've been going on about "forcing kurdistan to become independent" yet your replies seem to be to some imagined person who's "anti-kurdistani independence"! I recommend reading CAREFULLY through the entire thread before replying because honestly its actually impossible to debate with you, I try to maintain some common courtesy, you should do the same, and don't fall into the traps so easily in future (e.g. the one where i got you advocating ethnic cleansing in kirkuk. Learn from kurd123... he didn't fall for it) ;)


finally. from another forum,


sheytan says he doesn't want/like a Kurdish president as kurds wont accept a turkmen as a president . we will accept a president from turkmen if

1.he speaks Kurdish only.
2.he fights for kurds.
3.uses Kurdish flag only.

that's what Jalal Talabani is doing for Iraq atm so the answer is yes we would accept under those conds.

P.S. lots of Christians and turkmen hold/held political position in the KRG.

classic example (me and kurd123 were talking about some sunni-arab politicians views, not mine).

btw. afaik mam jalal is from the PUK which is part of the KRG which is a separatist movement from iraq. so your turkmen example would have to speak broken kurdish and want a turkmen state carved out of kurdistan ;)

look mind your manners. you don't know how old I am or what "class" I am nor what my education is. So mind your manners because your typing is only reflecting on your own "class". Its not particularly difficult to insult people, and I hope you realise its well within my ability to insult you quite assiduously, the fact that I maintained semi-civilised conversation with you should be seen as a sign of at least respecting your existence as a human. You should have the courtesy to reciprocate that.

i didnt insult you show me the bogan was pointed at your nick ? you replied saying it suits with my name so its only a reflection of your counter manners

Finally, before replying to me on any threads do at the very least READ my writing (what I actually write, not what you "imagine" I write) and reply to my actual words, because in this thread for instance I've been going on about "forcing kurdistan to become independent" yet your replies seem to be to some imagined person who's "anti-kurdistani independence"! I recommend reading CAREFULLY through the entire thread before replying because honestly its actually impossible to debate with you, I try to maintain some common courtesy, you should do the same, and don't fall into the traps so easily in future (e.g. the one where i got you advocating ethnic cleansing in kirkuk. Learn from kurd123... he didn't fall for it) ;)

no you do not say that you only say kurds should shut up and be happy with what "have been given to them" which isnt the case and leave kirkuk and i say it again we will fight till our last drops for kirkuk.

finally. from another forum,


classic example (me and kurd123 were talking about some sunni-arab politicians views, not mine).

btw. afaik mam jalal is from the PUK which is part of the KRG which is a separatist movement from iraq. so your turkmen example would have to speak broken kurdish and want a turkmen state carved out of kurdistan ;)

this is a simple reply to your previous post in that thread you said kurds wont accept a turkmen as there president and why should arabs accept a kurd as theres ? did you say that or you want me to bring the post here? anyways i will not reply to any of your posts to stay out of conflict from now on i know about all your opinions now no need for further discussion

have a nice day

i didnt insult you show me the bogan was pointed at your nick ? you replied saying it suits with my name so its only a reflection of your counter manners



no you do not say that you only say kurds should shut up and be happy with what "have been given to them" which isnt the case and leave kirkuk and i say it again we will fight till our last drops for kirkuk.

finally. from another forum,


this is a simple reply to your previous post in that thread you said kurds wont accept a turkmen as there president and why should arabs accept a kurd as theres ? did you say that or you want me to bring the post here? anyways i will not reply to any of your posts to stay out of conflict from now on i know about all your opinions now no need for further discussion

have a nice day

I will let the bogan slur drop, I'm not one to hold grudges, though at least an acknowledgment from you would have been honourable.

secondly

My post regarding "kurdish president" wasn't in THAT thread. it was in this one, and you can certainly quote it (as long as you quote what i was replying to, to show the context). ;) here's the actual quote... http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=69656997&postcount=61

finally.

If you would give me the honour of telling me what you know about all my opinions! I am very curious to see whether my writing really reflects my views (and if maybe i need to change it to improve my communications). Perhaps it may also be useful for you to improve your analysis skills in discussions? can be a win-win :D

Guys relax lol we can give our opinions here but it's like it matters at the end of the day the folks and Erbil and Baghdad decide so what's the point of going on a rampage online? it's bad for your health lol..

as for a president/pm of kurdistan I don't care whether they are kurds or whatever, but I also think it's fair that they speak kurdish on top of their other language, we've already had an assyrian vice prime minister and they are also calling to 'carve' up some of kurdistan for an assyrian region (see article 34 of the KRG)

some of their demands in the Assyrian convention in erbil -

-Demand the development of a province for the Assyrian, Chaldean, and
Syriac people in the Nineveh Plain in which they would constitute the majority
of the population, along with the rest of the brothers from the other national
and religious components.

-Request the implementation of Article (35) of the Kurdistan Region draft,
concerning granting autonomy to our people after a referendum.

Parties, political, and national institutions that participated in the meeting:
1. Assyrian Universal Alliance
2. Assyrian Democratic Movement
3. The Assyrian Chaldean Syriac National Council
4. Chaldean Democratic Party
5. Assyrian American National Federation
6. Assyrian National Party
7. Chaldean National Council
8. Assyrian General Conference
9. Chaldean Democratic Forum
10. Beth Nahrain Democratic Party
11. Syriac Independent Assembly
12. Assyrian Democratic Movement
13. Assyrian Democratic Organization
14. Beth Nahrain National Union
15. ChaldoAshur Organization of the Communist Party of Kurdistan
16. Chaldean Culture Society

http://aua.net/congress/27_2010/Conference/2nd_en.pdf

See sheytan your not the only one ;)

yes they want this in Nineveh plains and i think they deserve it fair and square but first let us be an independence country first then will issue other autonomy tickets

Guys relax lol we can give our opinions here but it's like it matters at the end of the day the folks and Erbil and Baghdad decide so what's the point of going on a rampage online? it's bad for your health lol..

as for a president/pm of kurdistan I don't care whether they are kurds or whatever, but I also think it's fair that they speak kurdish on top of their other language, we've already had an assyrian vice prime minister and they are also calling to 'carve' up some of kurdistan for an assyrian region (see article 34 of the KRG)

some of their demands in the Assyrian convention in erbil -


http://aua.net/congress/27_2010/Conference/2nd_en.pdf

See sheytan your not the only one ;)

LOL turknology was right. The end state of "iraq" is a series of "countries" with 1M people each like the balkans :D

LOL turknology was right. The end state of "iraq" is a series of "countries" with 1M people each like the balkans :D

Kurdistan has 4-5 million :nuts: I don't know how far the assyrian cause will go.. it's a suggestion I assume.

Kurdistan has 4-5 million :nuts: I don't know how far the assyrian cause will go.. it's a suggestion I assume.

5 million for now (lets say 6 with kirkuk).

There will be an
"arab state of kurdistan"
"christian republic of mesopotamia"
"turkmen republic"
"Yezidi nation"
"Jaff republic"
etc...

can easily get down to the 1M/nation mark or less. :nuts:

5 million for now (lets say 6 with kirkuk).

There will be an
"arab state of kurdistan"
"christian republic of mesopotamia"
"turkmen republic"
"Yezidi nation"
"Jaff republic"
etc...

can easily get down to the 1M/nation mark or less. :nuts:

Turkmen are 500k all over Iraq :P
Majority of yezidis are united with kurds

If Iraq splits it'll be 3-4 states and that's it, I'm not really sure but I think the assyrians want to join Kurdistan then get autonomy (This is what most assyrian parties want anyway - ADM, I suppose the ADM can be persuaded, same goes for turkmen in kurdistan most of them call for kirkuk to be added to KRG, I don't know how much truth there is it in, but the turkmen I met in erbil were nice people)

Turkmen are 500k all over Iraq :P
Majority of yezidis are united with kurds

If Iraq splits it'll be 3-4 states and that's it, I'm not really sure but I think the assyrians want to join Kurdistan then get autonomy

except the AINA guys :D LOL

but yea... it seems at a time when nations are joining together in monetary/military/political/trade/passport unions... we are splitting into little bantustans!

when i drive in Europe, I set off from France, drive through Germany austria slovakia, hungary all without taking out my passport! :D

in Iraq I need ID and invitation letter to get into Samawah :D

as the old saying goes "we go backwards like the camel's urine" (I'm not sure how good that translation is!).

except the AINA guys :D LOL

but yea... it seems at a time when nations are joining together in monetary/military/political/trade/passport unions... we are splitting into little bantustans!

when i drive in Europe, I set off from France, drive through Germany austria slovakia, hungary all without taking out my passport! :D

in Iraq I need ID and invitation letter to get into Samawah :D

as the old saying goes "we go backwards like the camel's urine" (I'm not sure how good that translation is!).

Haha yeah (AINA - Western assyrians are as anti-kurd as it gets:P) but the impression I get is that the assyrians in IRAQ are looking into doing that and all parties expect (ADM and they can be persuaded) agree -note ADM was present in the erbil convention-

I assume that it will be like it is in ainkawa..

One Christian leader, Fahmi Mati Solaqa, who is the mayor of Ankawa, a neighborhood where the Christians have a de-facto autonomous rule in Erbil, says Christians enjoy a "unique life in Kurdistan,"

http://www.rudaw.net/english/kurds/3284.html

the map of the KRG provided earlier is wrong now the KRG has expanded to the freed Kurdish areas but there are also "the sliced off areas" that are under A.140

here is the current KRG

http://commondatastorage.googleapis.com/static.panoramio.com/photos/original/45777394.jpg

^^ LOOOL Alan u want from baghdad till mosul to be kurdistan !
kurdish people living there doesnt mean its a new land for Kurdistan !?
so u want mosul , Kirkuk , and Diyala ! haha its ok bro u can take Baghdad also :D

so for example those Iraqis which live in Syria , after 5 years theyll publish new map of iraq and include the areas theyr living in to Iraq !

we still live in a country which has laws and history ... and esp in Iraq , for example if Najaf wants to take some lands from Karabala , they wont accept !
:)

^^ LOOOL Alan u want from baghdad till mosul to be kurdistan !
kurdish people living there doesnt mean its a new land for Kurdistan !?
so u want mosul , Kirkuk , and Diyala ! haha its ok bro u can take Baghdad also :D

so for example those Iraqis which live in Syria , after 5 years theyll publish new map of iraq and include the areas theyr living in to Iraq !

we still live in a country which has laws and history ... and esp in Iraq , for example if Najaf wants to take some lands from Karabala , they wont accept !
:)

Ohh the ignorance.

Iraq wants the US out...

hmmm. maliki's saying no US troops after 2011... even though Iraq's military won't be ready until 2020.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204685004576045700275218580.html

he also said "our neighbours won't invade us" LOL :D

i also liked this bit.

"I mean seven to eight ministries are, allow me to say, ministries for appeasement purposes," he said.

Iraq wants the US out...

hmmm. maliki's saying no US troops after 2011... even though Iraq's military won't be ready until 2020.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204685004576045700275218580.html

he also said "our neighbours won't invade us" LOL :D

i also liked this bit.

Do you think he is just trieng to please sader? is he being for real.. it's too early to make a decision on whether the US will leave or not. and off course not, who is going to invade Iraq lol... Iran? the west would love that.

^^ LOOOL Alan u want from baghdad till mosul to be kurdistan !
kurdish people living there doesnt mean its a new land for Kurdistan !?
so u want mosul , Kirkuk , and Diyala ! haha its ok bro u can take Baghdad also :D

so for example those Iraqis which live in Syria , after 5 years theyll publish new map of iraq and include the areas theyr living in to Iraq !

we still live in a country which has laws and history ... and esp in Iraq , for example if Najaf wants to take some lands from Karabala , they wont accept !
:)

you can see the city of Mosul is clearly outside the KRG but ninevah plain is under KRG which it wants to give it back to the christens as an autonomy when Kurdistan breaks free. kirkuk how ever has a majority of kurds and always been a kurdish city unfortunately for the oil it has Saddam kicked many out and lots of kirkuki kurds live abroad too but i can see its not just saddam we had to deal with there are still LOTS of his alike that think the same as him . you obviously dont know much about saddams dirty deeds , lots of current "disputed areas" use to be part of the KRG cities of Duhok Arbil Suli and kirkuk , like sinjar makhmor and khanaqin etc ... but Saddam de-attach and re attached them onto the non kurd provinces so originally they WERE part of the KRG anyway but the A.hole changed there demographics for obvious reasons mentioned earlier.


kurds that live in these sliced off areas have always lived there they didnt come from china so NO you cant compare Iraqis who fled iraq to Syria and claim lands there, unlike these kurds who are origin residents to these lands despite many many kurds that were being evicted under saddams ruling and yet he failed at changing the demographics of those areas , if anything there should have been lesser kurds in those areas due to the Arabization process by the A.hole . god exists

Do you think he is just trieng to please sader? is he being for real.. it's too early to make a decision on whether the US will leave or not. and off course not, who is going to invade Iraq lol... Iran? the west would love that.

indeed, this interview does have a tinge of "sadr" about it.

Of course it won't happen. I am just curious about what scheme they will use to classify US troops? "advisors / trainers etc...". Then the key question becomes will they end up having to "lease" or "borrow" the US weapons for 6-7 years... with "borrowed" US consultants to use them :D

no US troops though.

indeed, this interview does have a tinge of "sadr" about it.

Of course it won't happen. I am just curious about what scheme they will use to classify US troops? "advisors / trainers etc...". Then the key question becomes will they end up having to "lease" or "borrow" the US weapons for 6-7 years... with "borrowed" US consultants to use them :D

no US troops though.

It's early days for malikis government, and this time around becuase the Sunni is involved he can't play around like the last government he led and so it's understandable to be nice lol.

Indeed I doubt the US will leave, they will 'leave' by name and nothing else, most likely will stay as advisers/trainers/consulates/ or whatever lol. I mean they are still present in Germany for gods sake, why the hell would they leave a mine gold such as Iraq!

if the KRG breaks away i would really want it to have strong ties with newly created Iraq and would on reply on Iraq for importing and exporting . i dont trust the Turkish gov they dont have good intentions towards Kurds , however the majority of iraqis arent so against kurds break away so i think it will work out plus i know Iraq has got lots of oil but they could use our other resources like Gas , tourism rock solfur which is used for marbles and so on.

if the KRG breaks away i would really want it to have strong ties with newly created Iraq and would on reply on Iraq for importing and exporting . i dont trust the Turkish gov they dont have good intentions towards Kurds , however the majority of iraqis arent so against kurds break away so i think it will work out plus i know Iraq has got lots of oil but they could use our other resources like Gas , tourism rock solfur which is used for marbles and so on.

The KRG is not going to leave for now.. it would be stupid, the KRG will only leave if pressured by Iraq (that way we can't be blamed by the world) or if it gets enough recognition from the world.

The KRG is not going to leave for now.. it would be stupid, the KRG will only leave if pressured by Iraq (that way we can't be blamed by the world) or if it gets enough recognition from the world.

yes true that but the a.140 has to be implemented too as agreed by Maliki or KRG will withdraw from the Iraqi Gov. and following its collapse . but i think this time round it will be implemented already lots of cheques have been given out to those kurds in the "disputed areas" according to The head of the application of Article 140 Accounting Department they say they are almost nearing the completion of stage 1 of the A.140 . stage 2 is re-attaching those "sliced of areas" back to there origin demographics . i read on PNA that in DaQuQ town they just canceled 83 contracts of confiscated lands which amounts to 7 hectares of land which was done by Saddam to the origin Kurdish residents .

plus the KRG needs a strong modern army to defend itself when it declares independence and it needs to be self food sufficient which is been worked on atm . they are building lots of enclosed green houses that grow fruit and vegies , also KRG now gives loans of up to $500,000 to each villager to invest more in their new or existing agriculture


the implementation of A.140 is 3 stages.

1. compensate those who got affected by the Arabization process and also those Arab families that were forced to move to the "disputed areas".
2. normalize the Gov offices and the staffs with origins of the area and then attach the "sliced off areas" back to there origin demographics prior to the de-attachments
3. A Referendum will take place as to which side i.e KRG or IRaQ these areas would vote to be officially controlled by.


thanks to Saddam and his dirty deeds otherwise none of these issues would have existed today as the disputed areas would have been part of the KRG anyway and full stop.

and yet what amazes me is lots of Sunni Arabs praise this monster and call him a hero ??? and unfortunately also some of our christian brothers do as well , not saying all of them but i have heard many of them say this to me in person.

guys
1st of all pls when u post any thread about kirkuk DONT say its in kurdistan region cus thats considered as a lie ! and your giving incorrect information about your country!
if tourists want to visit kurdistan and they want to know about it , you will say kurdistan has 4 governorates while its 3 only ! kirkuk is NOT under kurdistan region control !
when kirkuk joins the kurdistan region officialy then u have all the rights to say that ! Read this , I dont think that kirkuk is mentioned anywhere here :-

The Kurdistan Region’s provincial authorities
The Kurdistan Region comprises the three northern-most governorates or provinces of Iraq: Erbil,
Suleimaniah and Dohuk. Each governorate has a democratically elected 41-seat Governing Council.
The provincial Governors are Mr Nawzad Hadi in Erbil, Mr Behrouz Mohammad Salih in Suleimaniah,
and Mr Tamar Ramadan Fattah in Dohuk.
As well as receiving funds from the Kurdistan Region’s own budget, the governorates also receive
directly from Baghdad funds for provincial capital investment and infrastructure projects.

source :
http://www.krg.org/uploads/documents/Fact_Sheet_About_Kurdistan_Regional_Government_KRG__2010_05_15_h13m42s9.pdf

^^ yeah i know its not under KRG control but it is a kurdistani city :) . and as long as our Arab brothers treat us like there brothers in iraq which im sure they will, i dont see Kurdistan separating from iraq as now Shia rules and will rule iraq for ever . KRG will keep the autonomy and will get back the sliced off city and towns that Saddam played with during his ruling and stay part of iraq . there are more important things to do than separating , we could set examples and help our brothers progress in every aspect

This may be some interesting news for our KRG brothers.

The official magazine of the Iraqi Ministry of Defence can be seen here http://www.mod.mil.iq/Bilady/pdf/44.pdf

see page 2. there's the new official logo for the Iraqi "land forces" it has the Iraqi and Kurdish flags (the navy and air force have the Iraqi flag only).

yeah kirkuk isnt part of the KRG now but it has always been a majority kurdish city and historically proven a kurdish city this is why the KRG and all kurds want kirkuk to be under KRG for example the police is runned by kurds the governor is a kurd so is the majority in the council and as far as im aware around 70% of kirkuk people called for the city to be part of the KRG in 2005 i think it was . why did Saddam hussein kick out so many kurds and replaced them with Arabs who were also forced move to kirkuk ? anyways there is an article under the iraqi constitution which calls for a referendum of the kirkuki people to be controlled by the baghdad or arbil , they are now at the end of stage 1 of the process and stage 2 will start this year. by 2013 the 2& and 3rd stages have to be accomplished for the referendum according to an agreement between president Barzani and Mr. Maliki in return the KRG supports and forms the Gov with there Shia bros

This may be some interesting news for our KRG brothers.

The official magazine of the Iraqi Ministry of Defence can be seen here http://www.mod.mil.iq/Bilady/pdf/44.pdf

see page 2. there's the new official logo for the Iraqi "land forces" it has the Iraqi and Kurdish flags (the navy and air force have the Iraqi flag only).

Great that's a good start! is that a recent change? what does it mean? (does it mean that the peshmerga will be officially recognised? and is that the logo that is used on the Iraqi force uniform?) sorry for all the questions.

This may be some interesting news for our KRG brothers.

The official magazine of the Iraqi Ministry of Defence can be seen here http://www.mod.mil.iq/Bilady/pdf/44.pdf

see page 2. there's the new official logo for the Iraqi "land forces" it has the Iraqi and Kurdish flags (the navy and air force have the Iraqi flag only).

so this means the KRG gets what the iraqi ground forces get ?

i think kurds could agree to be part of iraq as long as they dont look down on us and also all the iraqis should understand its our rightful to decide if we want to have our own state but this would only happen by understanding and building trust between the 2 nation and i think things are going the right way. but KRG has decided to remain with a federal Iraq for now.

btw 2-3 days ago i saw an interview by abu dhabi tv with an iraqi expert on oil talking about the oil issue between baghdad and KRG however i cant find it .

well its another step for integrating Peshamarga into the Iraqi army.

fair enuff yeah by the end of the day we are still part of Iraq , i wonder when the KRG gets some airfoil helis and crafts

from what i have seen the "specialised" elements will remain centralised. e.g. air force / navy / army aviation / maintenance / colleges etc... in fact i know guys recruited from nassiriya who were sent to dohuk for their officer training, ditto for KRG recruits being sent to besmaya for armour training / abu ghraib for artillery etc...

^^ wer still a country :D

from what i have seen the "specialised" elements will remain centralised. e.g. air force / navy / army aviation / maintenance / colleges etc... in fact i know guys recruited from nassiriya who were sent to dohuk for their officer training, ditto for KRG recruits being sent to besmaya for armour training / abu ghraib for artillery etc...

The KRG is probably not going to operate jets (there may be kurds in the Iraqi air force operating them) but I doubt the KRG will for a long time to come, they will probably use helis though, but that's fine with me we're not planning to go on an offensive nor will we ever plan too lol.

For a region like Kurdistan they need:-

1.Good tactics.
2.Quick mobility and support.
3.Quick supplies.
4.Mortars/automatic grenade launchers.
5.And decent air defense.

Tanks could be useful to defend main cities such as erbil etc, but X amount of tanks can be taken out with a few bomber jets, so without an air force the best we can hope for is good old mountain wars.

The point of a centralised air force is that it covers a wide region, something that is impractical for most small countries. E.g. Bulgaria gets its air defence courtesy of turkish airforce, baltics have a contingent of german planes covering them. Similarly keg would be part of Iraqs centralised air defence system and covered by fighters from qayara and Kirkuk air bases. Also by integrating peshmergas into Iraqi army they become iraqi army (as far as I understand), and peshmarga constitute the two mountain divisions of the army which means they receive more support from army aviation command, more mortars and anti tank guided weapons. But less heavy armour (since its actually unnecessary in their main operating terrain).

yes true i read once an iraqi defence minister said 'we dont mind the KRG buy there own armor and weapons as long as they let us know in advance and we dont mind also them buying different ones than the iraqi army as they have different geographics regions to the non-krg regoins .

also i read this article and i dunno how things gonna turn out with the KRG air force i think they will get some armed helis they have the training aircrafts and private helis but for jets yeah it will be centralized but i dont think iraqi jets would be allowed to enter the KRG air space , the no fly zone still applies.


Kurds and Kuwaitis raise concerns over possible U.S. sale of 36 advanced F-16 fighters to Iraqi government.

Speaking on possible weapons sales to the Iraqi government by the U.S., Kurdistan Parliament speaker Adnan Mufti said that the sales must be based oonly on condition that the Iraqi government promises to never use these weapons against the people of Kurdistan Region and Iraq.o Mufti made his statement during the opening of the second round of the 2008 sessions.

Previous Iraqi armies have a long history of using weapons against Iraqi people, in particular Kurds, who were killed en masse en masse
adv.
In one group or body; all together: The protesters marched en masse to the capitol.


[French : en, in + masse, mass.
..... Click the link for more information. by chemical weapons and other deadly weapons used by Saddam HusseinAEs army.

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Arming+new+Iraq+military+worries+Kurds,+Kuwaitis%3A+Kurdistan+Region+to...-a0184876891


and this

Jabar Yawar, General Director of the KRG's Ministry of Peshmerga, said in November 2009 that the Kurdish region's share in the Iraqi Army was now only 8.2 percent, whereas it should be 22 percent according to Region’s real population share. Kurdistan Region Minister of Peshmerga Affairs Sheikh Ja’far Mustafa said that there was a Iraqi Central Government political purpose behind the decision to close Qalachwalan and Zakho military colleges, which had been built largely with Kurdish funds. “The institutional government [ie: the KRG] should certainly possess a regular army, and this is a historical need to unify Peshmerga Such a regular army will help other security forces to provide the security for Kurdistan Region’s people,” Mustafa said. He said in November 2009 that there were negotiations to organize the Ministry of Peshmerga forces, and to form military units. “The last decision has been decreed concerning the existence of one unified Peshmerga Army under the [at least nominal] control of [Iraqi] Ministry of Defense. No army is allowed outside the control of the ministry’s rules.”

Minister Mustafa noted: “Due to the Iraqi Constitution, Kurdistan Region has its own military forces. Every region in Iraq is allowed to have its own potent armed forces. For that reason, the KRG can sign protocols with different companies in order to buy weapons that will be different from the Iraqi Army’s heavy weapons, because they have different duties. We will benefit from those countries that are similar to Kurdistan.”

http://oilprice.com/Geo-Politics/Middle-East/Growing-Power-of-Iraqi-Kurdistan-Could-Backfire-on-Tehran.html

hey kurd123 did you hear about this btw ?

http://www.alarabiya.net/articles/2010/12/30/131581.html

The point of a centralised air force is that it covers a wide region, something that is impractical for most small countries. E.g. Bulgaria gets its air defence courtesy of turkish airforce, baltics have a contingent of german planes covering them. Similarly keg would be part of Iraqs centralised air defence system and covered by fighters from qayara and Kirkuk air bases. Also by integrating peshmergas into Iraqi army they become iraqi army (as far as I understand), and peshmarga constitute the two mountain divisions of the army which means they receive more support from army aviation command, more mortars and anti tank guided weapons. But less heavy armour (since its actually unnecessary in their main operating terrain).

As far as I'm aware apart from the 35k in the Iraqi army (which are mixed through out a couple divisions and operate all over Iraq. There will be 2 divisions close to 30k based in kurdistan and 2 zerevani federal police divisions based in kurdistan close to 30k, and apart from those +/-60k Iraqi police/army based in kurdistan the KRG will operate it's own 80k unified army now I know that they will be recognized by Baghdad but I'm not sure about the details in regards to arming/training. The KRG will probably also operate it's own aviation brigade.

So an estimate of 110-40k (depending how you count the police, even though their armed with aks and humvees) troops based in kurdistan and 35k outside kurdistan?

Originally Posted by kurd123
The KRG will probably also operate it's own aviation brigade.

yeah i think that's why they have those basic air crafts for training atm. according to the "no fly zone" rule which still applies , no Iraqi heli or aircraft is to enter KRG's airspace then i guess the KRG will think of ways to operate there own gears to fight any possible future terrorism like they encountered in the past like Ansar al Suna and so on ...

hey kurd123 did you hear about this btw ?

http://www.alarabiya.net/articles/2010/12/30/131581.html

No, but that does not matter... becuase arabs outside Iraq have no say on it to be honest, well at least they should not have.

well we could get any support we need atm most Sunni Arabs in Iraq dont like the idea of Kurdistan going its own way didn't you see there reactions after Barzani's reminder call for self-determination?

Karbala - Iraq is not immune to protests elsewhere in the Arab world because it is a democracy, and its leaders must work to fight corruption and promote social justice, clerics said in Friday sermons.

Their warnings came as protests in Egypt against President Hosni Mubarak reached an 11th day, while smaller protests have been held in Yemen and Jordan, after an uprising in Tunisia ousted that country's long-time leader.

"All governments, even democracies, must study the main reasons that have led to this public anger against their regimes, which started in Tunisia," said Abdul Mahdi al-Karbalai during Friday prayers in the shrine city of Karbala.

"A lot has changed in Iraq... but there is no social justice," said Karbalai, the representative in Karbala for Iraq's top Shi'ite cleric Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani.

"The political blocs in Iraq must give priority to public issues over private interests."

'It will not end'

He added: "There are many outstanding issues - we are not sure that what happened in Arab countries will not happen in Iraq, even though it is a democracy."

Sheikh Mohammed al-Juburi, imam of the Abu Bakr al-Saddiq mosque in the ethnically-mixed northern city of Kirkuk, echoed Karbalai's views, warning: "It started in North Africa and it will not end."

"Iraq's politicians must take care to serve their people and to not give opportunities to the corrupt and those who further foreign agendas," he said, adding: "We may see a spark in Iraq just like the spark sweeping Arab countries."

The imam at the main mosque in Kufa, twin city to the holy Shi'ite city of Najaf, condemned police reaction to a demonstration in southern Iraq on Wednesday, when they opened fire to disperse protesters, leaving four wounded.

"The demonstrators did not ask to change the government like what is happening in Egypt or Tunisia, they only asked for improving basic services," Dhia al-Shawki said.

"Are those illegal demands? Do they not know that the time of fear is over?" he said, an apparent reference to the fall of Saddam Hussein as a result of the US-led invasion.

8 years of nothing
8 years of failure
8 years of corruption
8 years of incompetence
8 years of election by fear-mongering
8 years of nepotism

there will not be a 9th.


THE REVOLUTION STARTS TODAY.

Like before. It started in Rumaytha in 1920.
Today it started 5km away in Hamza 2011.

DOWN WITH MALIKI
DOWN WITH ALAWI
DOWN WITH TALABANI
DOWN WITH BARZANI
DOWN WITH SADR
DOWN WITH HAKIM
DOWN WITH HASHEMI
DOWN WITH MUTLAQ
DOWN WITH ALL THE MINISTERS AND THEIR ENTOURAGE
DOWN WITH ALL THE NEPOTIST, RETARDED, THIEVING, INCOMPETENT SCUM.

^^ calm down, geez, there is no revolution.. just a regular protest that we see every month..

there will not be a revolution in Iraq.. there are way too many camps / parties

Iraqi premier says he'll cut his salary by half

(AP) – 5 hours ago

BAGHDAD (AP) — Iraq's prime minister said Friday he'll return half of his annual salary to the public treasury in a symbolic gesture that appeared calculated to insulate himself from the anti-government unrest spreading across the Middle East.

It was a stunning statement for Nouri al-Maliki, who has resisted disclosing his pay in the five years he has led Iraq. He described it as an effort to narrow the gap between the nation's rich and poor.

Coming in the wake of popular uprisings in Egypt and Tunisia, however, al-Maliki also seemed to be shielding himself from public bitterness over Iraq's sagging economy and electricity shortages.

Al-Maliki narrowly secured a second term in office after months of political negotiations last year. He is believed to earn at least $360,000 annually.

"Fifty percent of my monthly salary will be reduced, starting from the current month, as a contribution from me to reduce the difference in the salaries of the state officials," al-Maliki said in a statement Friday. "That will help limit the differences in the social living standards for different classes of the society."

Al-Maliki also noted that his pay cut comes as Iraq's parliament considers what the Finance Ministry projects will be a $90.5 billion spending plan for this year.

Hours earlier, Sunni and Shiite clerics used Friday sermons to warn government leaders against letting poverty, oppression and corruption become the norm — or face the consequences of the unrest that has gripped parts of the Arab world in recent weeks.

"All governments — even those which embraced democracy — have to study the essential reasons that have lead to this overwhelming popular anger against the political regimes in those countries," said Shiite Sheik Abdul-Mahdi al-Karbalaie, a top representative of Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani.

"They have to learn the lessons from what is happening," al-Karbalaie said.

Emboldened Iraqis staged several small protests over what they called corruption in the government's security forces, rampant unemployment and scant electricity and water in homes.

U.S. government estimates indicate that as many as 30 percent of Iraqis are unemployed, and households nationwide have as little as three hours of electricity or running water daily because of the country's antiquated and overloaded power grid.

Wisam Sabir, a 45-year-old activist for the al-Noor government watchdog group, said Iraq's problems are far worse than those of some of its Arab neighbors.

"We watched the uprising in Tunisia, but the services there are better than here," she said at a small demonstration outside the a coffee shop in central Baghdad's Mutanabi book market.

"Where is the democracy and freedom they promised us?" she said. "This is another dictatorship."


:lol: funny timing

8 years of nothing
8 years of failure
8 years of corruption
8 years of incompetence
8 years of election by fear-mongering
8 years of nepotism

there will not be a 9th.


THE REVOLUTION STARTS TODAY.

Like before. It started in Rumaytha in 1920.
Today it started 5km away in Hamza 2011.
Best town evarrr, heard only the smartest people come from there :lol:
Is there really something going on in Hamza?

360k is just crazy, thats how much the austrian chancellor gets and we pay the highest salaries in the EU, are the 4th wealthiest country in the EU and around 8-10 wealthiest nation in the world.

President Barzani receives telephone call from Allawi

Member of al- Iraqiya Alliance, Hassan Shihan , told PUKmedia Correspondent that the Head of al- Iraqiya Iyad Allawi made a telephone call with President Barzani and asked him to interferer to resolve the issue of the National Council of the Strategic Polices through coming to Baghdad or inviting the Iraqi leaderships to Erbil.

Reported by: Waleed al- Zaidi

yeah but a speaker of PDK said this time Barzani wont participate , only cos when they have problems they turn to us but for solving our problems they dont wanna know us.

yeah but a speaker of PDK said this time Barzani wont participate , only cos when they have problems they turn to us but for solving our problems they dont wanna know us.

Just a couple days ago a member of Iraqia was saying that the KRG should 'dissolve' becuase it's not 'democratic' while Baghdad is 'democratic' :nuts: but I think he would becuase the agreement that was signed in Erbil needs to be implemented.

lol another fail political

some news...

BAGHDAD / Aswat al-Iraq: Premier Nouri Al-Maliki announced today that the great number of ministries has become a real burden on the work of the state.

"This fact appeared after the 100-day period", he clarified.

Maliki sent a letter to the parliament, copy received by Aswat al-Iraq, proposing a two-stage procedure, the first is to keep 29 ministries only.

"So, as a result, we submitted a proposal to trim the government and increase the activities of the ministries, by canceling honorary post, combining or making changes in their leading personnel.

The first stage will cancel all posts of ministers of state, except parliament, provinces and women ministries, provided that the parliament will take the necessary measures to create a women's ministry.

As for the second stage, he added that there will be a sort of combination of ministries or cancellation.

Maliki proposed that the ministries will be for defence, interior, foreign affairs, finance planning, oil, transport, justice, electricity, industry, agriculture, trade, municipalities, works and social affairs, construction, higher education, communications, education, health, culture, youth, technology and sciences, environment, water resources, immigration, human rights, woman, provinces and parliament affairs.

well, maliki's making a start at least. however he hasn't touched any of the "real" ministries here. My opinion of his current move.

interior = keep it as it is.
defence, foreign affairs = combined to "DEFENCE" ministry.

finance, planning, trade, oil= combined into "FINANCE"

higher education, education, culture, youth, technology and sciences, = combined into "Development ministry"

justice, works and social affairs, immigration, human rights, woman = combined into "Justice ministry"

transport, electricity, industry, agriculture, construction, communications, environment, water resources, health = converted into "Regulatory authorities"

municipalities, provinces and parliament affairs = eliminated entirely.



there you go. down to the following ministries only:
-interior
-Defence
-Finance
-Development
-Justice

a 5 pillar nation.

So the foreign ministry and defense ministry will combine? would both ministers work there? or how does it work?

one ministry. one minister. the others are, as the term is in the employment world... "redundant".

one ministry. one minister. the others are, as the term is in the employment world... "redundant".

So, how will they decide who takes over the new post? as we all know they don't decide based on ones ability in the field.

Has this been passed on parliament?

i think you need to re-read the above. The joining and eliminating of ministries is MY idea! It has absolutely no link to the reality on the ground.

So don't worry, the Kurds still have their X allocation of ministries! (you brought up everything that's wrong with Iraq's governmental structure on one post :D)

If it was up to me, I'd hire 5 Germans to run the ministries (as per my governmental structure).

i think you need to re-read the above. The joining and eliminating of ministries is MY idea! It has absolutely no link to the reality on the ground.

So don't worry, the Kurds still have their X allocation of ministries!

Oh, I just read your comments not the article, my bad.

I'm not worried, even if they reduce the number of ministries we will still have an fair amount out of them, and the Kurds are not the ones you should worry about.

Alawi and Maliki still can't agree on anything my friend, your Sunni Arabs pals should be your worries. The division between you Arabs is not our fault, there are serious ideology differences between the two, not to mention lack of trust.

which is why 5 ministries run by 5 germans is the ideal solution :D

I like the "we still have a fair amount of them"... once again thoughts firmly embedded in the ethno-sectarian divide with "agreeable" persons based purely on what lingo or what name a person has.

which is why 5 ministries run by 5 germans is the ideal solution :D

:lol:

Come on, the ministers are not the only problem.. it's true that when they allocate a budget the ministers take their tip, but for every step that the budget goes through the person in charge also takes a tip.

The problem is the people.

It all started in 91, becuase of the food for oil program everybody was just handed money and so nobody wants to work now, and as long as they're given their monthly salary from the government for basically doing nothing their happy and when they get bored they complain about high unemployment rates.

I like the "we still have a fair amount of them"... once again thoughts firmly embedded in the ethno-sectarian divide with "agreeable" persons based purely on what lingo or what name a person has.

Maybe I should have made myself clearer, as long as people vote for someone that happens to be a Kurd, and lets say 20-25% of the people of Iraq vote for parties of Kurdish origin, then they should have their fair amount of ministry posts as they will represent the 20% that voted for them.

you live in the UK. Labour are the 2nd largest party and have a grand total of 0 ministers. and how many SNP or Plaid Cymru ministers are there in London?

Go to any "democracy" on earth and, shockingly, the same pattern, disturbingly replays!

Iraq is the only country where every participant in parliament is also in government!

erm... exactly like in saddam's days!

and this is the main cause of having too many ministries (too many backs to scratch), followed by the cronyism and racist favouritism that all the ministries thus end up with!

you live in the UK. Labour are the 2nd largest party and have a grand total of 0 ministers.

Go to any "democracy" on earth and, shockingly, the same pattern, disturbingly replays!

Iraq is the only country where every participant in parliament is also in government!

erm... exactly like in saddam's days!

Iraq is a nation that was put together by force, and was ruled by several dictators, so how can you compare Iraq to the UK? in the UK the British, Scottish, welsh and Irish people rule themselves and have basically got an independent country with in the the United kingdom, there is trust between the British people, mostly at least. You heard about the Scottish winners this time round? they plan to hold a referendum for independence, and whether it passes through or not is irrelevant, just the fact that they can do so peacefully is a great, and sometimes people just want to have that right, and not necessarily use it.

You can not expect Iraqis to be all jolly and what not with each other after what has happened in the past and the wound is still fresh, and it'll take time to heal, and we still don't know what will happen in the future.

P.S: Labour is the opposition.

I know that labour is the opposition (who's the opposition in the Iraqi parliament? THEY ARE ALL IN THE GOVERNMENT! exactly 100% like in Saddam's time!). In saddams' time they also had elections (with multiple choices! and the elected candidates went to parliament in Baghdad and were all members of the government too!) What we have in Iraq today is the exact same scenario since there is NO opposition in parliament!).

Nobody wants to be opposition. in the last term, the "opposition" MPs sulked and moved to Jordan and didn't even attend parliament! For their role, they were rewarded with EVEN MORE seats in the 2010 parliament by the Iraqi electorate! The ruling party runs Iraq like a satrapy from ancient persia. etc ... etc...

PS.
and the UK was also created by force :D not too dissimilar really (except we don't have a privately owned "central bank" in Iraq that bled the country dry.... yet).

I know that labour is the opposition (who's the opposition in the Iraqi parliament? THEY ARE ALL IN THE GOVERNMENT! exactly 100% like in Saddam's time!). In saddams' time they also had elections (with multiple choices! and the elected candidates went to parliament in Baghdad and were all members of the government too!) What we have in Iraq today is the exact same scenario since there is NO opposition in parliament!).

There are some MPs in the opposition, a couple MPs from Iraqia formed the white group or something like that.

Come on, who could be an opposition in saddams day? even if people wanted to, they couldn't, however today there is a choice, you can be the opposition if you want, and whether there is an opposition or not is irrelevant.



PS.
and the UK was also created by force :D not too dissimilar really (except we don't have a privately owned "central bank" in Iraq that bled the country dry.... yet).

Yes I'm aware of that, however there is a great deal of autonomy in the UK, and the British flag is not the English flag, it's a mix, you can't compare the UK to Iraq, at least not now, maybe sometime in the future.

All the different ethnic groups have their 'country' in Britain, I mean I don't know how one would classify it, but they enter the World cup separately so.. but like I said, the fact that all the ethnic groups in the UK have their own government and have separate elections (except for the English whom just vote in the main British elections)

P.S: You really don't like the UK do you? :D

Sheytan what do you think about the recent Iranian shelling?

^^ and our government is nicely improving the relations with them, while they are attacking our lands ... idnno how the do the people in the Army or the government or even the parliment sleep at night while their lands and people are being attacked by someone else !

interesting article.

I wonder if this ranj aladeen has been reading our discussions on SSC?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/oct/14/kurdish-strategy-iraq-kurdistan?newsfeed=true

interesting article.

I wonder if this ranj aladeen has been reading our discussions on SSC?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/oct/14/kurdish-strategy-iraq-kurdistan?newsfeed=true

Interesting. No idea if he read(s) this forum, but I don't think he is saying different to what a lot of people are thinking. I've heard this view repeated many times over by various people.

I mean, it's pretty clear, no?

Interesting. No idea if he read(s) this forum, but I don't think he is saying different to what a lot of people are thinking. I've heard this view repeated many times over by various people.

I mean, it's pretty clear, no?

I would have thought so! But in Iraq you still get the dinosaurs who shout about "one country from Zakho to Faw"... :nuts:

I would have thought so! But in Iraq you still get the dinosaurs who shout about "one country from Zakho to Faw"... :nuts:

wait im sure the majority of Iraqis think that... right? I know i do :S

Dude, I dunno if we should all stick together from ZAKHO TO FAW (I hate that sentence!) or simply split! I mean after that NUKHAIB crisis a few weeks ago. Shiite ppl are thinking of making regions and building walls like in Israel! so I guess "eventually" it is better than every1 sticks to their kind of ppl. If you get me. The bitter truth. But still the truth.

hey hey.

The Sunni Arabs are declaring autonomy, finally!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/war-zones/iraqi-province-declares-autonomy-in-symbolic-move/2011/10/27/gIQARd0ONM_story.html

lets cut them off along with the Kurds!! :D

pffft allah o mohammed o ali wiyahum ... they havent done us any good ...

Finally we r safe! the criminals are out! ALHAMDULILAH!
It is time for us to create our own big eqleem with mini eqaleem inside! it will be great. Our new flag inshallah:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2749/4078200826_6083787e7e.jpg

LOL there will be no cutting off of anything.

First of all this is not 'the Sunni Arabs'... this is just one province.

Second, the COUNCIL of Salahaddin voted for autonomy. There would still need to be a referendum and the people of Salahaddin will not vote for it, dont get your hopes up. :|

pffft allah o mohammed o ali wiyahum ... they havent done us any good ...

The Sunnis haven't done the Shiaa any good? And what good have the Shiaa done the Sunnis exactly? Don't make stupid comments like that.

LOL there will be no cutting off of anything.

First of all this is not 'the Sunni Arabs'... this is just one province.

Second, the COUNCIL of Salahaddin voted for autonomy. There would still need to be a referendum and the people of Salahaddin will not vote for it, dont get your hopes up. :|



The Sunnis haven't done the Shiaa any good? And what good have the Shiaa done the Sunnis exactly? Don't make stupid comments like that.

Stupid comments....:ohno:
Well I will reply by posting the other design for our future flag inshallah....
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4125/5065677745_86261bff10.jpg

Stupid comments....:ohno:
Well I will reply by posting the other design for our future flag inshallah....
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4125/5065677745_86261bff10.jpg

Isnt that the Saudi flag? :D

FOR WALLPAPER SIZES: http://www.flickr.com/photos/30974581@N03/5065677745/sizes/m/in/photostream/

How about this?

http://mecollectibles.com/980-3124-thickbox/iran-islam-shia-ya-husain-military-political-flag.jpg

Or this:

http://mecollectibles.com/951-3129-thickbox/iran-islam-shia-ya-mahdi-adrekni-military-political-flag.jpg

The Sunnis haven't done the Shiaa any good? And what good have the Shiaa done the Sunnis exactly? Don't make stupid comments like that.

I dont think we owe them in order for us to do good theyve lead the country into hell since 1979 and then when the shia took power like babies they started crying so instead of being civilized ... they blow them selves up and kill Iraqis ... hmm mabye we should apologize for getting in the way of their bomb ? Or mabye for building a mosque to close near there dynamite ...

http://api.ning.com/files/afwcCZrEpeJjZDtEAdgx6e15pKYbNDN4NyHylmE4pO5C3QWZIIKCPRXAnzeK2s-4TfPBCBjuAx-7VLMVCrGxwijyokHq2zKZ/IraqSamarraGoldenMosqueBombing2006EPAReuters.jpg

The Sunnis haven't done the Shiaa any good? And what good have the Shiaa done the Sunnis exactly? Don't make stupid comments like that.

Whilst you're right regarding the fact that this is just a call for a referendum. Next week Anbar will also vote in their local authority on "autonomy". That's 2 out of 4 Sunni-Arab majority provinces. I bet Mosul and Diyala would not be far behind, but of course those two provinces would run into a conflict with the KRG who themselves want a chunk of those provinces...

From my perspective, let the Sunni arabs and Kurds deal with each other. As long as the south keeps the oil lolly and ports, they can have whatever else they want.

With regards to what the shias have "given" to the sunnis. Well, they've paid for the education, health, jobs, houses, cars, hookers and coke, foreign education and holidays of every sunni-arab for the last 80 years whilst they themselves lived in misery (not getting any of the south's oil money in their pocket). I think that's quite a lot of give... of course the shias also took a lot of being second class citizens "shroog", filled up mass graves and got deported and killed en masse and randomly.

I think you will find that the Sunni-Arab "deficit" is rather HIGH!

With regards to what the shias have "given" to the sunnis. Well, they've paid for the education, health, jobs, houses, cars, hookers and coke, foreign education and holidays of every sunni-arab for the last 80 years whilst they themselves lived in misery (not getting any of the south's oil money in their pocket). I think that's quite a lot of give... of course the shias also took a lot of being second class citizens "shroog", filled up mass graves and got deported and killed en masse and randomly.

I think you will find that the Sunni-Arab "deficit" is rather HIGH!

This is the first time I say this to a male.... but Shaytan... I LOVE U!

Whilst you're right regarding the fact that this is just a call for a referendum. Next week Anbar will also vote in their local authority on "autonomy". That's 2 out of 4 Sunni-Arab majority provinces. I bet Mosul and Diyala would not be far behind, but of course those two provinces would run into a conflict with the KRG who themselves want a chunk of those provinces...

From my perspective, let the Sunni arabs and Kurds deal with each other. As long as the south keeps the oil lolly and ports, they can have whatever else they want.

With regards to what the shias have "given" to the sunnis. Well, they've paid for the education, health, jobs, houses, cars, hookers and coke, foreign education and holidays of every sunni-arab for the last 80 years whilst they themselves lived in misery (not getting any of the south's oil money in their pocket). I think that's quite a lot of give... of course the shias also took a lot of being second class citizens "shroog", filled up mass graves and got deported and killed en masse and randomly.

I think you will find that the Sunni-Arab "deficit" is rather HIGH!

+1000000000000000000000

Of course the situation as it is developing in Iraq now, means that the Kurdish-Shia alliance will be revitalised in order to achieve the strategic goals of both the KRG (obtaining parts of Diyala, Kirkuk, Mosul) as well as that of the Shias (pacifying the sunni-arab minority in Baghdad, Sunni Arabs in Baghdad are already besieged in small enclaves dotted in a sea of government (read: Shia) control, Managing this minority (stop them from killing people en masse like they are continuing to do) will be an extremely difficult task, especially since Iraq cannot use the "saddami" methods to mitigate terrorists.

interesting times in Baghdad... there's a major uptick in violence in the last few days running up to the vote in Salahuddin, with the Anbar vote expected next week to follow suit.

I dont think we owe them in order for us to do good theyve lead the country into hell since 1979 and then when the shia took power like babies they started crying so instead of being civilized ... they blow them selves up and kill Iraqis ... hmm mabye we should apologize for getting in the way of their bomb ? Or mabye for building a mosque to close near there dynamite ...

http://api.ning.com/files/afwcCZrEpeJjZDtEAdgx6e15pKYbNDN4NyHylmE4pO5C3QWZIIKCPRXAnzeK2s-4TfPBCBjuAx-7VLMVCrGxwijyokHq2zKZ/IraqSamarraGoldenMosqueBombing2006EPAReuters.jpg

You're just like any other sectarian Shiite out there.. you don't know how to differentiate between Saddam and Sunnis. 'Like babies they started crying'? .. lol how old are you exactly?? If you are trying to say that they're frustrated now then yes they are because they themselves are now being regarded as second-class citizens and are being discriminated against by the government.

The majority of the Sunni extremists are arab (Syrian/Saudi/Libyan) and not Iraqi... oh and Shiaa are 'civilised' are they now?? Shiaas arent killing Iraqis? How about all the thousands of teenage boys kidnapped, tortured and murdered by Jaish Al Mahdi.. (even after being paid a ransom) .. and the tens of thousands or even hundreds of thousands killed or deported by Shiaas? The ethnic cleansing of neighbourhoods in Baghdad by Shiaa militant groups..?

Sunni mosque destroyed by Shiites in Basra:

http://www.mideastdaily.org/images/blast-in-a-basra-mosque_246.jpg

http://gdb.rferl.org/560A9722-54B8-4067-9DC2-3591AA352E06_mw800_mh600.jpg

Should sunnis 'apologise for building a mosque too close to their dynamite' ?? :|
Grow up a little and stop acting like the victim.

Chounz r u Sunni? Because if u r shiitte then there is something wrong with u! And plz no I am Iraqi crap. Thank you.

Whilst you're right regarding the fact that this is just a call for a referendum. Next week Anbar will also vote in their local authority on "autonomy". That's 2 out of 4 Sunni-Arab majority provinces. I bet Mosul and Diyala would not be far behind, but of course those two provinces would run into a conflict with the KRG who themselves want a chunk of those provinces...

From my perspective, let the Sunni arabs and Kurds deal with each other. As long as the south keeps the oil lolly and ports, they can have whatever else they want.

Ok.. even if all four provinces vote for autonomy.. they'd still need to conduct referendums and get the vote of the majority of the people.. and I don't see that happening.
We'll wait and see..

With regards to what the shias have "given" to the sunnis. Well, they've paid for the education, health, jobs, houses, cars, hookers and coke, foreign education and holidays of every sunni-arab for the last 80 years whilst they themselves lived in misery (not getting any of the south's oil money in their pocket). I think that's quite a lot of give... of course the shias also took a lot of being second class citizens "shroog", filled up mass graves and got deported and killed en masse and randomly.

I think you will find that the Sunni-Arab "deficit" is rather HIGH!

Baba what are you talking about? You make it seem like Sunni Arabs were sitting on thrones and Shiaas were their slaves mopping their floors. I understand that Saddam and perhaps even previous governments discriminated against Shiaas and did not spend much money on the south. But you're taking things out of context. Just because oil money was not spent of the south it doesnt mean that Shiaa civilians were paying for Sunni civilians' lives. Sunni Arabs (civilians) worked their asses off just like all Iraqis. My relatives worked hard to be able to support their families, without any favouring from the government. And they didnt get any 'holidays' or 'foreign education' or any of that.
Again, EVERYONE (all sects) suffered under Saddam and wanted him gone. I have Sunni relatives that were also DEPORTED and KILLED by Saddam. He opressed everyone, all Iraqis wanted him gone. Yes he targeted Kurds and Shiaas but he would not hesitate to kill and torture Sunnis either. Sunnis were miserable under Saddam too... stop playing the victim card.

Sunni Arabs were sitting on thrones and Shiaas were their slaves mopping their floors.

Exactly, u said it urself. Besides see this: http://www.dd-sunnah.net/forum/showthread.php?t=121900

and something interesting here....
http://www.burathanews.com/media/pics/1155765503.jpg

Chounz. Of course "generalising" the way I did (and you too of course) negates the intricacies of the situation somewhat... but the general "trend" was certainly the way I describe it (with quite a few exceptions of course).

With regards to the referendums, I believe that the Daawa and Kurdish Alliance have simply CONSPIRED against the Sunni-Arabs to make life difficult for them in Iraq (in a way cornering them) to force their hands and ask for autonomy. That way they can point the finger at the Sunni arabs and say "they did not want to live as equals with people they considered second class citizens previously".

Of course, after 2006, the Shia terrorist groups certainly led a very bloody campaign to kill many thousands of innocent civilians purely for having names like Omar! But even in the terror campaign, one side was rather more vicious than the other (at least in bloodletting), so whilst the Shias "won" the civil-war and took complete control over Baghdad, the vast majority of civilian casualties were in fact inflicted by the sunni-arab organised groups.
They killed the most people in the meantime as they were heavily outnumbered, and considered such mass killing as an attempt at "equalising" with the numerically superior foes), in addition there was the remnants of the old superiority complex which considered the "shroog" to be subhumans, and thus made their killing all that easier on the conscience... in fact to this day "shroog" are considered to be akin to rats among the Sunni-Arabs, which means that the mass killing comes as no surprise, as otherwise respectable members of society were simply cleaning up a rat infestation. I saw no similar attitude from even the most hardened shia zealot criminals (consider sunnis to be akin to rats).


PS. just in case someone asks. I'm neither a shia nor a sunni, but saw this conflict first hand from both perspectives.

I feel like I need to make a comment here, just so that you have something to blame the above argument on. Danm it, why did I have to go and pin the BFF shia and sunni Arabs against each other?

hahahaha. I knew you couldn't resist Kurd123 :D

LOL. its (partly) your fault after all (but to be honest the sunnis and shias deserve most of the blame!). After all the Sunni Arabs were squeezed from south (shias) and north (Kurds) to make them feel besieged.

hahahaha. I knew you couldn't resist Kurd123 :D

LOL. its (partly) your fault after all (but to be honest the sunnis and shias deserve most of the blame!).

I just did what has to be done ^^

time to get back to my carlsberg. :cheers:

Edit: We haven't done anything to the sunni, they have been welcome in the KRG with open arms, they insist on not allowing the people of certain areas to determine their fate, besides in the last election while we could not get along with the Iraqia list we still demanded they be included in the government, believe it or not, it's in our advantage to have both shia and sunni in the government.

Iraq has emerged, just about, from a civil war which is still fresh in everyone's minds, especially those whose lives were torn apart by foreign sectarian bastards and the Iraqis who hosted them.

So it is understandable that emotions run high on this topic. However, I would much prefer that everyone does not generalize a whole sect/ethnic group because if we do so then it means that these terrorists have won. I understand that Iraq's borders are artificial but this is the world we live in. It's unfortunate that the 'new middle east map' is not implemented because it would have potentially saved a lot of lives (however, the KSA and Iran would never agree to it!).

So let's tone it down a bit. This is a public forum and it does not present a very nice picture of Iraq - even though what's been said is largely reality.

You're just like any other sectarian Shiite out there.. you don't know how to differentiate between Saddam and Sunnis. 'Like babies they started crying'? .. lol how old are you exactly?? If you are trying to say that they're frustrated now then yes they are because they themselves are now being regarded as second-class citizens and are being discriminated against by the government.

The majority of the Sunni extremists are arab (Syrian/Saudi/Libyan) and not Iraqi... oh and Shiaa are 'civilised' are they now?? Shiaas arent killing Iraqis? How about all the thousands of teenage boys kidnapped, tortured and murdered by Jaish Al Mahdi.. (even after being paid a ransom) .. and the tens of thousands or even hundreds of thousands killed or deported by Shiaas? The ethnic cleansing of neighbourhoods in Baghdad by Shiaa militant groups..?

Should sunnis 'apologise for building a mosque too close to their dynamite' ?? :|
Grow up a little and stop acting like the victim.

hmmm being regarded as second class citizens ... when has that happened before ? oh yeah us shia and kurds were treated as dirt in saddams time ...we were treated like parasites and we didnt go round blowing ourselves up but when sunnis arent on top they go crazy and blow themselves up you tell me not to generalize but let me ask are all shia part of jesh il mahdi ? hmm im not... dont say that we shouldnt act like the victim because we and the kurds have been the victim since 1979 oh and btww im not confusing between sunnis and saddam because saddam didnt blow up the samara mosque which was the burial site of the Prophets grandson. are you sunni chounz?

Whilst you're right regarding the fact that this is just a call for a referendum. Next week Anbar will also vote in their local authority on "autonomy". That's 2 out of 4 Sunni-Arab majority provinces. I bet Mosul and Diyala would not be far behind, but of course those two provinces would run into a conflict with the KRG who themselves want a chunk of those provinces...

From my perspective, let the Sunni arabs and Kurds deal with each other. As long as the south keeps the oil lolly and ports, they can have whatever else they want.

With regards to what the shias have "given" to the sunnis. Well, they've paid for the education, health, jobs, houses, cars, hookers and coke, foreign education and holidays of every sunni-arab for the last 80 years whilst they themselves lived in misery (not getting any of the south's oil money in their pocket). I think that's quite a lot of give... of course the shias also took a lot of being second class citizens "shroog", filled up mass graves and got deported and killed en masse and randomly.

I think you will find that the Sunni-Arab "deficit" is rather HIGH!

seriously i couldn't say it better myself.
Btw if Shia and Sunni gets autonomy will 17% of iraqs oil still go to the kurds? I mean omg why the hell should the kurds get 17% -.-

Finally we r safe! the criminals are out! ALHAMDULILAH!
It is time for us to create our own big eqleem with mini eqaleem inside! it will be great. Our new flag inshallah:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2749/4078200826_6083787e7e.jpg

rofl n1 flag XD

it becoming a boring topic now.... Sunnis r abandoning the sinking ship, it is time for us to do the same. But seriously, all our problems always come from Tikrit, I mean the thing is not a governorate in the first place! It was made one (I think) during Bakr's era! And now they are the first ppl (In Iraq) to go for a region! What next become the BAA'THIST REPUBLIC OF TIKRIT!

I just did what has to be done ^^

time to get back to my carlsberg. :cheers:

Edit: We haven't done anything to the sunni, they have been welcome in the KRG with open arms, they insist on not allowing the people of certain areas to determine their fate, besides in the last election while we could not get along with the Iraqia list we still demanded they be included in the government, believe it or not, it's in our advantage to have both shia and sunni in the government.

Here we go, more Kurdish greed for Kirkuk and Sunni counties... One: Kirkuk is for the Turkmen. Two: Good luck to both of you... the more Sunnis fight each other, the more their numbers go down, the more we have a good Shiite Iraq.

My next advice is to add Anbar to ur list of conflicted areas.... because some trillion years ago the first man playing with dinosaurs in that place was Kurdish... so technically Anbar is a Kurdish Area.... try to tell that to ABU REESHA and ALI ALHATAM.

You haven't done anything to Sunnis? Oh really? Go to the prisons in Kirkuk where all the officers and guards are KURDISH and ALL inmates are ARABS. Or try to look for the numbers of those abducted and imprisoned in Erbil with no proper warrant from Baghdad! They are technically lost. I know a good portion of them is from ALQAEDA and frankly speaking I don't give a dam about the Sunni butchers but please don't say u haven't done anything to them....

Here we go, more Kurdish greed for Kirkuk and Sunni counties... One: Kirkuk is for the Turkmen. Two: Good luck to both of you... the more Sunnis fight each other, the more their numbers go down, the more we have a good Shiite Iraq.

My next advice is to add Anbar to ur list of conflicted areas.... because some trillion years ago the first man playing with dinosaurs in that place was Kurdish... so technically Anbar is a Kurdish Area.... try to tell that to ABU REESHA and ALI ALHATAM.

You haven't done anything to Sunnis? Oh really? Go to the prisons in Kirkuk where all the officers and guards are KURDISH and ALL inmates are ARABS. Or try to look for the numbers of those abducted and imprisoned in Erbil with no proper warrant from Baghdad! They are technically lost. I know a good portion of them is from ALQAEDA and frankly speaking I don't give a dam about the Sunni butchers but please don't say u haven't done anything to them....

Talking out of your behind again? what part of presenting some evidence to back up the pile of crap that you type don't you understand? seriously I provided sources even when I was drunk, it's not that hard.

Kirkuk is and has always been a Kurdish city, it was a Kurdish city with a Kurdish majority when saddam deported Kurds. Kirkuk has a majority of Kurds today which is we have the most posts in the local council there.

As for Kurds doing anything to the sunni, again you are just wasting internet space, after what they did to us, nothing we could do to them would make us even, however if you go to erbil not you will find many ex-baathists Arabs living there, and unlike you I will present evidence.

Also among them are members of the ousted Baath Party and former security or intelligence officers like Mr. Abdul Rahman, who may be fleeing persecution by other Iraqis or arrest by American soldiers.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/02/world/middleeast/02arabs.html?pagewanted=all

In Erbil, Abdullatif claims he has never been asked about his religion or ethnicity. Kurds, he said, “are basically good and peaceful people”.

Mazin Zidan, visiting Sulaimaniyah from chaotic Baghdad, about 160 miles away, said he was impressed by Kurdistan's orderly traffic and friendly police. "All my bad impressions about the Kurds have been wiped out," said Zidan, 28, strolling in the city's Freedom Park, once site of an Iraqi army base where Kurds were imprisoned.

So if we look at the facts we'll see that we Kurds have not done anything to the Sunni Arabs, infact we welcome the same people that butchered us for no justified reason, even during the war if we captured an Iraqi soldier, they were imprisoned for a while and then released, where as if the Arabs captured a peshmerga they would have killed him/her on the spot (if not after immense torture).

As for the prison of Kirkuk, if one is a criminal and they terrorize the local community of Kirkuk be it Kurd, Turkmen or Arab they will be put in prison regardless of their ethnic background, infact the indigenous Arab population of Kirkuk is for article 140, the invaders are against it, why would they not be? they one day just moved into a free house, fully furnished and what not.

Now run along little boy.

kurd123. ignore Basrawi's rants! It'll make life easier.

rofl n1 flag XD

my suggestion

http://gharbeia.net/sites/gharbeia.net/files/images/NewerIraqFlag.jpg

my suggestion

http://gharbeia.net/sites/gharbeia.net/files/images/NewerIraqFlag.jpg
:lol:

kurd123. ignore Basrawi's rants! It'll make life easier.

It's a Sunday morning, I woke up becuase of a fire alarm in my hall and sort of hangover, so arguing with kids seems like the good thing to do at the moment :D

I should be revising statics though :bash:

It's a Sunday morning, I woke up becuase of a fire alarm in my hall and sort of hangover, so arguing with kids seems like the good thing to do at the moment :D

I should be revising statics though :bash:

I should be doing something about Magnetism and Chemical thermal kinetics. So anyway, I will show you my sources two days from now. Besides, I don't take sources from drunk ppl. :cheers:

Being polite up there, I would like to point out ...... I am not going down ur level Mr. Carlsberg. :ohno:

one more thing I like Heinken ....:banana:

Besides, BIG D should really do something about ppl like u on FUI (fourming under influence)

I should be doing something about Magnetism and Chemical thermal kinetics. So anyway, I will show you my sources two days from now. Besides, I don't take sources from drunk ppl. :cheers:

Being polite up there, I would like to point out ...... I am not going down ur level Mr. Carlsberg. :ohno:

one more thing I like Heinken ....:banana:

Besides, BIG D should really do something about ppl like u on FUI (fourming under influence)

It takes 5 minutes to provide a reliable source :) and in case you didn't realise, the insult was that I make more sense than you as a drunk :nuts:

My state of mind does not affect my basic understanding of turning a statement into a fact by providing an accurate and reliable (non bias) source.

P.S: Nothing wrong with carlsberg, I have a student budget to keep and so I'm very limited with what I drink, my Friday night involved 8 pints of carlsberg and my clothes covered in fake blood and even then I was able to tell that your rants are the equivalent of dust bin in the internet world.

It takes 5 minutes to provide a reliable source :) and in case you didn't realise, the insult was that I make more sense than you as a drunk :nuts:

My state of mind does not affect my basic understanding of turning a statement into a fact by providing an accurate and reliable (non bias) source.

P.S: Nothing wrong with carlsberg, I have a student budget to keep and so I'm very limited with what I drink, my Friday night involved 8 pints of carlsberg and my clothes covered in fake blood and even then I was able to tell that your rants are the equivalent of dust bin in the internet world.

Now you see, this is the problem with drunk ppl, you think u were able to tell if my extremely logical non-bias mutually approved by all sides opinions were fake or as I described them earlier.

Next time, try to be more awake and be in this world, where the reality says that Kurds are not angels.

PS.: Usually, I always stand by the Kurds, but recently I have seen the bad image of u guys, I mean ripping Iraq off, killing ppl using peshmerga, aiding pkk, drawing investments from other parts of Iraq, not sharing the oil revenues on ur side with the rest of the country like the rest of us do. AND ALL THIS NEED NO SOURCES as even mules (obviously not drunk) know and have seen this ON THE GROUND.

So, drink ur carlsberg and stay in London behind that LCD screen of urs. And never try to give me some infos about the reality of things in Iraq. know better, and i have seen it first hand MR. I NEED SOURCE.... btw, u should quit engineering and go news sourcing... reuters need ppl of ur kind.

G'day.....


One last thing, I never drank something with more than 8% of Alcohol.... and somehow u make me hate the kurds and I really don't... so plz stop.

Now you see, this is the problem with drunk ppl, you think u were able to tell if my extremely logical non-bias mutually approved by all sides opinions were fake or as I described them earlier.

Next time, try to be more awake and be in this world, where the reality says that Kurds are not angels.

PS.: Usually, I always stand by the Kurds, but recently I have seen the bad image of u guys, I mean ripping Iraq off, killing ppl using peshmerga, aiding pkk, drawing investments from other parts of Iraq, not sharing the oil revenues on ur side with the rest of the country like the rest of us do. AND ALL THIS NEED NO SOURCES as even mules (obviously not drunk) know and have seen this ON THE GROUND.

So, drink ur carlsberg and stay in London behind that LCD screen of urs. And never try to give me some infos about the reality of things in Iraq. know better, and i have seen it first hand MR. I NEED SOURCE.... btw, u should quit engineering and go news sourcing... reuters need ppl of ur kind.

G'day.....


One last thing, I never drank something with more than 8% of Alcohol.... and somehow u make me hate the kurds and I really don't... so plz stop.

You are so pathetic, the more you post without evidence the more you dig your 'stupid' hole.

Quotes from you:

killing ppl using peshmerga - You are again talking out of your behind, provide some evidence.

aiding pkk - One this has nothing to do with you so I don't know what you are commenting on this, secondly provide some evidence becuase as far as I'm aware even Turkey admits that the peshmerga stays neutral in their conflict, infact some Turkish sources say they get intelligence from the peshmerga. So give us some evidence or you are just a pathetic liar.

drawing investments from other parts of Iraq - HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH heeeeee HAHAHAHAHA. Yeah that must be it, we (Kurds) 'Steal' the investors that want to invest in the oh so safe parts from Iraq. That must be it, I mean there are no shia-sunni arabs issues topped off with major terror problems in the rest of Iraq is there? no! clearly we go around persuading these investors that are stupid enough not to run their own research to invest in Kurdistan instead. :nuts::nuts::nuts::lol::nuts::nuts::nuts:

not sharing the oil revenues on ur side with the rest of the country like the rest of us do - The oil revenues ARE shared with Iraq, the contract types given by the KRG ARE different to the rest of Iraq, the money is however still shared, and besides Baghdad always gives Erbil 13% so we are only making up the rest to reach up to the 17% that we are supposed to receive.

AND ALL THIS NEED NO SOURCES as even mules (obviously not drunk) know and have seen this ON THE GROUND. - I don't know what you think a mule is, but crealy what ever the definition of a mule is according to you, it is still smarter than you, even drunk :)

Present your evidence kid, have you never handed in a report? no reference = fail no matter how right you think you are :lol:

And PS: I don't care in the slightest what you think of Kurds or if you support us or not, frankly my opinion of you is that your the Iraqi equivalent of a redneck :lol::lol:

well i just had three glasses of 40% alcohol whisky and you're all a bunch of f*cjing awknerkss.

fekssl arffa the blododduy lotts of yerr.

fekks yaafdresr rall

I'm not drunk and what the f8ck is this I don't even...

well i just had three glasses of 40% alcohol whisky and you're all a bunch of f*cjing awknerkss.

fekssl arffa the blododduy lotts of yerr.

fekks yaafdresr rall

I'm not drinking tonight :D but i hate whisky, vodka and rum is ok but that's about it.

Have you ever had rekorderlig? the best cider I've ever had! :D

yes guys talk about drinks.. its cool :D
better than politics hahaha

GLENLIVET... can't pass DXB without it.
Kurd123---- u r the one talking from ur behind. Again it is not 13%, it is 17%.
AND YES I AM NOT GIVING ANY SOURCES..... I DO HAVE THEM .... BUT I AM STUBBORN ENOUGH NOT TO SHARE THEM WITH U KURD123!

One more thing.... did I mention ASAYESH and their cooperation with ALQAEDA.... I guess not. Providing training, aid, help, minimal prison sentences of few hours and the ability for them to strike again.