Petrol in Australia is predicted to cost $3 per litre within a couple of years. this is prediction by petrol expert.
dear o dear.
hurry up alternate energy!

Scary.. F driving.. I might try and get the lpg hookup, though

And then when the LPG runs out....

I'll run..

it will cost over $300 to run your 4wd weekly and even a small car will cost over $100. it really will stop many people from actually having a car and holidaying wont be the same. it will mean alot of people wont be on the road as much.
hey its perfect! what a conspiracy? just what Gov wants

We already pay €1.28 = A$2.10 per litre here in Holland.

but Dutch cities have better Public Transport than Australian - spare a thought for the Kiwi cities though.

most Kiwi city's have good public transport.. Christchurch had buses going pretty much anywhere every 10-20 minutes

<>><FOR PERTH>>>>

LESS
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v391/perthwa/a20b47a1.jpg

MORE
http://www.newmetrorail.wa.gov.au/Portals/6/WilliamStartistimpression_1.jpg

New MetroRail Project the solution to skyrocketing petrol prices
Skyrocketing petrol prices highlight the importance of building the Southern Suburbs Railway as soon as possible, according to Planning and Infrastructure Minister Alannah MacTiernan.

As Perth fuel prices hit $1 per litre yet again, Ms MacTiernan launched the Transperth Savings Calculator - a web-based calculator allowing commuters to compare the annual cost of travelling by car versus public transport.

Ms MacTiernan said the calculator showed that southern corridor residents would save thousands of dollars in annual transport costs each year by using the new Southern Suburbs Railway when it opened in 2006.

Based on today's average fuel price, savings would range from $2,074 per year for commuters making the regular nine-kilometre trip from the proposed Canning Highway Station to Perth, to a massive $3,904 per year for someone travelling from Mandurah to Perth on the Southern Suburbs Railway.

The savings are not restricted to the southern component of the project.

At the new Greenwood and Clarkson stations on the upgraded Northern Suburbs Railway, commuters would save $2,216 and $2,674 respectively each year.

"These savings will increase as fuel prices continue to rise," the Minister said.

Ms MacTiernan urged Perth residents to beat the petrol price hike by exploring their public transport options.

"As Perth petrol prices top $1 per litre yet again, there is no better time for the State Government to be pushing ahead with the expansion of our public transport network," she said.

The Minister said fuel prices would inevitably increase over time.

"This week, the United States oil price hit a 21-year high," she said.

"We are committed to getting people out of their cars and on to public transport - it makes our city more efficient, gives us clearer air and it is good for the public's hip pocket."

The Southern Suburbs Railway and Thornlie Spur will carry more than 28,000 people per weekday - the equivalent of almost 23,000 vehicles.

Annually, the 73km railway - which passes through nine new stations south of the river - will take the place of almost 9.6million motor vehicle journeys.

The line will service almost 400,000 people - a quarter of Perth's population - by 2006.

"For the first time, southern corridor residents will have access to fast, direct public transport that is more than competitive with the motor vehicle," Ms MacTiernan said.

"A trip from Rockingham to Perth will take just 33 minutes - 20 minutes faster than the motor vehicle, 12 minutes faster than the previous Government's Kenwick deviation option and almost twice as fast as the morning peak bus trip."

Across the $1.518billion New MetroRail Project, more than 62,000 boardings are expected to be generated on a daily basis.

The calculator is available online at http://www.transperth.wa.gov.au.

Minister's office: 08 9213 6400

http://www.newmetrorail.wa.gov.au/Portals/6/image13.jpg
@www.newmetrorail.wa.gov.au

but Dutch cities have better Public Transport than Australian - spare a thought for the Kiwi cities though.

Of course they have better public transport here. The tax on petrol here is nearly the equivilant of A$1. Thats a HUGE revenue source for the govt. Imagine what you would get in Oz with that sort of taxation on petrol.

it will cost over $300 to run your 4wd weekly and even a small car will cost over $100. it really will stop many people from actually having a car and holidaying wont be the same. it will mean alot of people wont be on the road as much.

Actually, the reason the price will shoot up so high is mostly because everybody wants a car and hence oil demand is inelastic, whereas supply in many oil producing regions is declining.

Indonesia just became a net importer. Mexico did a few years ago. The UK is about to become a net importer. Australia has been for years, ditto the US. All of these countries are important oil producers that have passed their "hubbert peak", as have many others. That means non-OPEC supply is going down and will keep going down every year.

Meanwhile, demand is going up in line with the economy. No surprise that when we hit the limit to growth, the economy will be ripped to shreds. Since many of the world's key producers are in decline, it's only a matter of time before Saudi Arabia, Iran and Kuwait can no longer cover the declines in daily output elsewhere with their own daily output, let alone allow for any growth.

Just now we are scratching the limits, with almost no spare capacity in the system to cope with interruptions. In a year or two, there'll be no spare capacity at all. Then we've hit peak. From then on, it only gets worse.

And heaven forbid what happens when OPEC countries themselves peak.

Saudi Arabia is a bit of an unknown quantity, given the nature of its spare capacity (Qatif is historically a very poor performing field, but it's their official spare capacity, despite its oil being toxic thanks to it being used as a napthaline dump in the years since it was decomissioned, and the oil there was always high sulphur (undesirable) anyway). Also, its main oil field (Ghawar, about 60% of Saudi Arabia's daily output) is really looking shaky just now. As soon as the water injection at Ghawar meets the water table, pressure will equalize, and output there will plummet.

The main reason they have planned to bring Qatif back online in the last few years is to allow them to ease up and give Ghawar a slight rest, to try to preserve their crown jewels. However, world pressure for more mbd's will probably mean they can't, so there's a chance that they'll cause an output catastrophe in a couple of years, with or without accounting for ongoing declines elsewhere.

The worrying thing is that no-one has found an alternate energy that can make Trucks run, or Planes fly etc etc...

The world is going to become a very different place in the next Decade or three... Rationing will not save us!

Petrol in Australia is predicted to cost $3 per litre within a couple of years. this is prediction by petrol expert.
dear o dear.
hurry up alternate energy!

The expert was predicting that the rises would result from cutbacks from production in the Middle East and Russia.

Russian producers have been in difficulty as of late particularly Yukos, the largest oil producer in Russia which owes the Russian government more than US$ 3 bn in tax, and is under investigation over the matter. Termoil in the Middle East along with terrorism is the problem affecting supply. .

While this is true, it is a bit of an exaggeration. There will be a rise in petrol prices, but I don't think it would be to the extent as predicted by this guy.

Maybe everyone should do a little more of what this guy (http://www.walksydneystreets.net/) is doing! :eek2:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------


From the SMH 11/08/04

link: http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/08/10/1092102452135.html



Streets ahead of us, and he's 90
By Richard Macey
August 11, 2004

Page Tools
Email to a friend Printer format
Stopping for a bite at Osborne Park. It's a long way to the top ... but Kenneth Road, Manly Vale wasn't going to stop Alan Waddell. Photo: Robert Pearce

Alan Waddell felt lost when Marjorie, his wife of 60 years, died in November 2002.

To take his mind off his broken heart, the 88-year-old former accountant went for a walk.

He walked every road in his suburb, Longueville. When he ran out of streets he headed into neighbouring Northwood.

Mr Waddell, 90 last month, is still walking.

Yesterday, on reaching the end of Pitt Street, a Manly Vale cul-de-sac, he gave himself a pat on the back. He had just completed walking every street, road, avenue and lane in 100 Sydney suburbs.

Somehow, without any original goal, the feat just happened.

"After 10 or 12 suburbs my daughter-in-law said she couldn't believe I'd done it."

So, he thought, "Why don't I try for 50 suburbs? After 80 suburbs I thought doing 100 would be easy."

To his dismay he discovered that 11 "suburbs" he had already walked, including Clifton Gardens, Whale Beach and Lovett Bay, were officially classed as "localities" by the Geographical Names Board. So he scratched them from his list and pressed on. "I don't want anyone to say I am a cheat."

Advertisement
Advertisement
He crosses each street name off a list as he goes, walking about 90 minutes every morning when the weather is fine.

He always has a relative drop him off and pick him up. If he is facing a very steep hill they drive him to the top so he can hike down, rather than up.

"You see lots of things you'd never see from a car," he said.

On Dangar Island he was mystified by a collection of wheelbarrows parked at the end of a wharf.

"I was told that people with weekenders arrive by boat, put their possessions into a wheelbarrow, and push them up to their house."

In Balmain he found a plaque marking the former premier Neville Wran's childhood home.

In a Willoughby park he was photographed singing by a sign warning that singing "without authorisation" was forbidden.

"I could have been prosecuted," confessed Mr Waddell, who posted the evidence, along with pictures of other oddities he discovered, on his website, http://www.walksydneystreets.net.

The website attracts congratulatory emails from all over the world.

Today Mr Waddell, who has no plans to stop walking, hits Bondi Junction. With more than 500 Sydney suburbs still ahead, will he ever walk them all? "Maybe ... in a wheelchair."

lol!! maybe we sure employ him as a scraper counter?? just give him a digicam and were laughing!

funny things is all the oil companies have bought all the alternative energy systems aswell

most Kiwi city's have good public transport.. Christchurch had buses going pretty much anywhere every 10-20 minutes
Umm I hope your not including Akl in that generalisation. Akl's got one of the most pathetic public transport systems and fwy systems in the first world - it is stifling the Akl economy and is a key reason why NZ is in the bottom half of OECD countries wrt GDP per capita. Go the Eastern Motorway and railway!

If petrol in Aus is $3, NZ's will be approaching $4, ouch.

Even if petrol does go this high, I dont see wordwide consumption declining by much bc the US is the biggest market. Even if Aus stopped using oil altogether the market wouldnt even feel it.

The expert was predicting that the rises would result from cutbacks from production in the Middle East and Russia.

Oh, no he was not. Dr Bahktiari was talking about peak oil. He was saying that since the US, UK and Norway (North Sea), Indonesia and even Australia, plus a number of other countries, are past their hubbert peak and output is already declining, OPEC countries will not be able to make up the difference.

They are cutting in Qatif in Saudi Arabia as we speak, even though its output is unreliable, high sulphur and is actually toxic. There's a big project going on in Iran as well (even though the US tried to diplomatically pressure the Japanese, who are running the project, to not do it). However, in a short time, around the end of this year or the beginning of next year, even that will not be enough. Supply will not meet demand, and the price will skyrocket.

Imagine a plane being evacuated. There are 100 people aboard and 101 parachutes. OK, fine, the cost of a parachute is fairly easy to predict. What happens if there are 100 people and 99 parachutes? Under the market system, which we've all come to rely on, the cost of a parachute will equate the value of the life of the poorest person aboard.

funny things is all the oil companies have bought all the alternative energy systems aswell


Oil companies own nuclear fusion, wind, the ocean, all the rivers and the sun? We're fucked!!!

BP for example is one of the world's leading suppliers of Solar panels.

I don't know if you guys get the BP TV ads over there,about how much they care about finding alternative energy sources.lol.

While this is true, it is a bit of an exaggeration. There will be a rise in petrol prices, but I don't think it would be to the extent it is.
Keep telling yourself that.

its the end of the world as we know it
its the end of the world as we know it
its the end of the world as we know it
and I feel fine.

The human race deserves to run out of oil.

^^ i agree

The human race deserves to run out of oil.

...and it will be gone before we know it too.

And why aren't these oil companies who claim to own alternate enegy sources not cashing in from selling them????

Maybe so that they can sell all the alternatives to us for a better price(for them) when there is no more oil to sell.

BP Solar are in fact selling heaps of panels.. Problem is the potential for solar is shite..

On the topic of that 90 year old guy I've walked every street in my suburb, although I'm 19 so it's not really a huge achievement. :)

As for the oil crisis, bring on the Toyota Prius II. I hope the price falls below $36,990 to under $30,000.

I'd say Toyota could get away with hiking the price of a Prius above $40k and people would still buy them. When something is in demand and the supply is limited, the price goes up, not down.

I know that's simple economics MrPC but as hybrid technology advances and production increases the price will hopefully fall.

If the price of oil does go up, the price of production and vehicle distribution will go up. All those factory workers need to be paid more to get to and from work, all those trucks, trains and ships cost more to run etc. This will surely eat away at potential cost savings from production increases.

Oh, and don't technology advances usually cost more?

Don't panic! Just talk to your grandparents about life in a low oil use environment.

They walked a fair bit more and used public transport, unfortunately, there was a lot of smog, smoke and coal dust around but life went on. Their friends were also their neighbours and they wouldn't have seen much of work or university friends outside of work/university time. Shops were closer to home and the big shopping centre for special and high value items was "in town" or the "city".

crazy i hope not !
But then it wil drive along the alternative solutions that are bady needed

If the price of oil does go up, the price of production and vehicle distribution will go up. All those factory workers need to be paid more to get to and from work, all those trucks, trains and ships cost more to run etc. This will surely eat away at potential cost savings from production increases.

Oh, and don't technology advances usually cost more?

Wouldn't be a greater focus on achieving a higher level of fuel efficiency in cars?

MrPC as new piece of technology becomes established and filters down as newer technology is released theoretically the price should fall.

Wouldn't be a greater focus on achieving a higher level of fuel efficiency in cars?

Even if mandatory and punative fuel efficiency standards were introduced, it would take 10 years to have a significant effect, and 17 years to have a fleet-wide effect. And that assumes that people don't simply put off selling their old fuel guzzlers because they don't want to buy a honda civic.

Quite simply, we don't have the time to make it work before major problems hit in about 1-3 years time.

great not a pretty picture of the future

I don't know if you guys get the BP TV ads over there,about how much they care about finding alternative energy sources.lol.

I havent seen them in Australia but I saw them in the US while I was there.

They are quite funny actually.......such bullshit.

http://www.bp.com/subsection.do?categoryId=2011768&contentId=2017240

tonights news indicates petrol will be $1.50 a litre by Xmas!

Well then.. The end of the oil age is looming

$46 barrel today !
No idea what it costs here but sure it will go up soon at the pumps

What's scarier is that the futures price for coming months is unusually close to $46. This far out, there's usually a much greater disparity.

For example, as mentioned the September price is $46.58. However, October is 46.03, November is 45.61, December is 45.04, January is 44.40 and February is 43.86.

There should be more than a $3 gap between September and February under normal circumstances. If you were an investor, you would ordinarily find much better things to do with your money for the next six months than sink it into something that doesn't earn interest. Not unless you expect the price to go much higher than the current price of the futures for those months and you want to cash in on that instead.

$50-60 here we come.

I hope American families miss out on their holidays this year.

The human race deserves to run out of oil.

Im with you on that.

Bring on the fusion!

It doesnt matter if the oil companies own it.Our democracies will demand it

It hit US$47 a barrel overnight.

On the business report on ten news last night, it was being predicted by experts that the price of oil will fall over the next year to US$30 a barrel. I hope they're right.

Nzer - I think the hike may of come a bit too late as the holiday season starts winding up over there. Maybe on the Labour day weekend next month?

our democracies are owned by oil companies

Instead of panicing that it is the end of the world do as I have and use Gas at 32 cents instead of petrol at over a $1.

but gas doesnt last as long as petrol does it? but yeah.. I reckon gas should be the next fuel for all vehicles.. cause it's clean and cheap..

It hit US$47 a barrel overnight.

On the business report on ten news last night, it was being predicted by experts that the price of oil will fall over the next year to US$30 a barrel. I hope they're right.

Nzer - I think the hike may of come a bit too late as the holiday season starts winding up over there. Maybe on the Labour day weekend next month?

Extending on my earlier post - The Saudi's, the worlds largest oil producer is prepared to produce as much as it can to bring prices to US$25-30. It would man reductions of up to 20 cents a litre on petrol here in OZ.

but gas doesnt last as long as petrol does it? but yeah.. I reckon gas should be the next fuel for all vehicles.. cause it's clean and cheap..

Yes, operating a car on LPG would require 20-30 % more than a car operating with petrol. The other big plus of using LPG is that overall costs of maintaining the car is reduced, as cars function better under LPG.

Next car purchase? LPG or hybrid? What's more advisable?

On the business report on ten news last night, it was being predicted by experts that the price of oil will fall over the next year to US$30 a barrel. I hope they're right.

Nzer - I think the hike may of come a bit too late as the holiday season starts winding up over there. Maybe on the Labour day weekend next month?

Unleaded $1.11 last night - highest I've ever seen on the Nth Shore Syd.

The widespread view is that current oil prices are just a temporary spike and the pricing of the futures market reflects this. In any case, the real oil price is still much lower than during the gulf war so I wouldn't splash out for a bicycle just yet. :)

The price per barrel would have to reach at least 3 figures before US petrol guzzlers start to reduce demand - US consumers already pay close to half what we do dollar for dollar so I dont see them hurting any time soon.

The futures prices actually reflect this to be a sustained rise. And they don't normally do that, since traders can get better returns if they stick their money in something that goes up in value rather than lock it away for months or years. They expect oil prices for future months to rise higher than an equivalent investment would.

September 2004 46.86
October 2004 46.28
November 2004 45.81
December 2004 45.23
January 2005 44.59
February 2005 44.05
March 2005 43.60
April 2005 43.12
May 2005 42.67
June 2005 42.25
July 2005 41.86
August 2005 41.55
September 2005 41.28
October 2005 41.02
November 2005 40.78
December 2005 40.55
January 2006 40.28
February 2006 40.01
March 2006 39.75
April 2006 39.49
May 2006 39.25
June 2006 39.03
July 2006 38.84
August 2006 38.67
September 2006 38.51

Note that none of the futures prices within the next two years fall within the normal price band of $22-28.

Oh, and adjusted for inflation, we are now above the oil price during the gulf war, we're at the prices during the 1973-74 supply crisis when OPEC cut supplies after the Yom Kippur War. The big historical spikes we haven't yet reached (inflation adjusted anyway) are the 1980-81 Iranian supply crisis or the inflation adjusted highest oil prices ever that hit back in the late 19th century (but few ever care about these).

And I don't know where you get your figures from, but US consumers do not pay half what we do. Depending on where you are, you're paying about USD2-2.50 per US gallon. That's USD0.53-0.66c/L. Adjust for an exchange rate of 72c and their fuel price is 73c in the cheap states or 91c in the more expensive states. That's ¾ what we pay. And that's explained away by the larger market that suppliers have, better economies of scale, they drive much further than we do for basic trips, and their fuel blends tend to be dodgier than ours.

Not that it matters a great deal, seeing as people there don't budget x amount for fuel where x is the price paid in Australia, or the Netherlands. They budget what they pay there. If their price goes up 25% (as it has recently), and they are already living on payday loans or are otherwise scraping by, which many Americans are, a price like that is crippling to their economy. People have no choice but to drive, so they cut their expenditure elsewhere, which means job losses, and the only drop in demand is fewer people driving to work thanks to the economic hit, and a bit of discretionary fuel use.

Oil demand is tied into the economy, it's otherwise quite inelastic. The only way for it to drop back to levels that can be comfortably supplied by the world's oil producers is for a major global recession. For that to happen, more is needed than slight price hikes. $3-4/L here and tripled fuel prices elsewhere would about take care of it. We'll probably hit that point by 2006. Until then the best we can hope for is rolling mini-recessions that will cut demand in some part of the world releasing supplies to allow another part of the world to grow a bit further.

I learnt at uni yesterday that the world actually has a much much greater quantity of oil left than has been anticipated, through shale oil - being pourous rock into which oil has been absorbed.

Several countries, including Australia, have vast reserves of this oil, however at the moment it is more cost effective to simply drill for oil than to undergo the process of extracting it from rock.

The Middle Eastern countries will keep a lid on the prices of oil, because if it rises too high then it will more economical to extract the shale oil - and then they are screwed.

Shale Oil is a furphy. It is an energy consumer, not an energy source.

1. The "oil" is produced by heating the shale (kerogen) in great big spinning vats and mixing it with water (steam?). The heat energy for this process is obtained from natural gas. So you're using two depleting resources water & gas.

2. The above process fluffs up the rock (much like popcorn) so it produces horrible amounts of waste.

3. The end result is a product that has negative EROEI. To really understand why this is bad you need to do some research. Do a google search for EROEI and Thermodynamics.

Oh, and never mind that the output from the above process is very low quality, and is expensive as hell (since you're using useful products to make a low quality one).

As the price of useful fuels such as Natural Gas goes up, so does the cost of making shale, and since you're using more useful fuels than you get out, I would expect that the process will become less economically viable, not more, as oil and gas gets more expensive.

^^Very interesting - that will be a good argument to raise in class next week, just to be difficult! ;) :okay:

There is one way it might be viable in producing an oil product without wasting precious gas or coal - generate the steam in a nuclear plant. The ERoEI will still be very poor, probably still negative, but Australia has a third of the world's uranium reserves, and to this day it's still policy not to extract it (save for a few small mines).

Yes its time Australia entered the nuclear age and ended our reliance on fossil fuels.

Could have something to do with how environmentally degrading uranium mining is...

Nuclear power is shit.

The futures prices actually reflect this to be a sustained rise. No they dont. Although the futures price has increased over the past 12 months, the prices themselves still show a downward trend in future oil prices. Even if the price doesnt go below $30 again, the predicted trend is still down, down down. The investment banks issuing the contracts expect the price to go even LOWER than the quoted future prices so they can make their spread - and they have a little more expertise than most in predicting oil markets so the predicted downward trend in oil prices is probably correct.

Oh, and adjusted for inflation, we are now above the oil price during the gulf war
NOPE - the current price is actually $11-12 a barrel less - and I get my figures from Reuters. http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040813/ap_on_bi_ge/oil_prices_53

And I don't know where you get your figures from, but US consumers do not pay half what we do. Depending on where you are, you're paying about USD2-2.50 per US gallon. That's USD0.53-0.66c/L.
Like I said, they pay half of what we pay dollar for dollar. FYI dollar for dollar means NOT adjusting for fx rates like you just did and is a proxy to compare the behaviour of consumers between similar countries. eg if we consider NZ consumers happily paying NZD1.30 for petrol, with comparable culture, spending habits and NZD salaries, we can safely assume we in Aus will also happily pay AUD1.30, and to a certain extend the US as well. The UK economy hasnt fallen apart because they more than GBP1.00.

People have no choice but to drive, so they cut their expenditure elsewhere, which means job losses, and the only drop in demand is fewer people driving to work thanks to the economic hit, and a bit of discretionary fuel use.
Actually in the current economy rising oil prices just mean the reserve bank doesnt have to raise interest rates as often. The oil price is doing the fed's and RBA's job for it. Therefore jobs are safe for now so dont contact centrelink just yet.

Oh and dont discount the potential for shale oil just yet. Aus has some of the most advanced technology in shale rock extraction - some producers are now becoming profitable and the technology is developing in leaps and bounds.

No they dont. Although the futures price has increased over the past 12 months, the prices themselves still show a downward trend in future oil prices. Even if the price doesnt go below $30 again, the predicted trend is still down, down down.

Wrong. You assume that futures prices are set in stone and are invulnerable to influences from the outside economy. This is a common mistake but that doesn't make it true.

Futures prices naturally tend downwards when you look at the raw numbers. However, you have to factor in rate of return. If someone thinks they could get 10% return on investment and still pick up futures for 7 months from now at a better profit than buying the futures now, they will invest their money elsewhere. However, the futures trend for the next six months is very steady around $44-47 in raw numbers. If you add RoI to each future month, you'll find a high likelihood of prices staying flat or going up.

Then there's the matter that the futures traders only work on the data they have and inside the parameters they are given by their investors. Most of them seem to know something is wrong, but they haven't a clue what that something is.

As for those whose parameters say not to buy at all above say $45, they will hit the spot markets bigtime in the coming months. That will not be healthy, but it still isn't reflected in the current futures prices.

By the end of this year, natural demand growth should have just about overwhelmed spare supply capacity. We'll be entering uncharted territory in 2005, and by 2006, some really nasty sh*t will have gone down.

NOPE - the current price is actually $11-12 a barrel less - and I get my figures from Reuters.

They didn't factor out energy prices in their inflation figures. Duh.

Like I said, they pay half of what we pay dollar for dollar. FYI dollar for dollar means NOT adjusting for fx rates like you just did and is a proxy to compare the behaviour of consumers between similar countries.

This is a little naive if you ask me. How would the Italians, Indians or Malaysians work under your 1:1 scenario?

The UK economy hasnt fallen apart because they more than GBP1.00.

Theirs will get nasty when they lose all their oil export revenues

Actually in the current economy rising oil prices just mean the reserve bank doesnt have to raise interest rates as often. The oil price is doing the fed's and RBA's job for it. Therefore jobs are safe for now so dont contact centrelink just yet.

So instead of Australian banks collecting extra money from economic cooling, it's being funneled to oil producers. Charming.

Oh and dont discount the potential for shale oil just yet. Aus has some of the most advanced technology in shale rock extraction - some producers are now becoming profitable and the technology is developing in leaps and bounds.

That means nothing. Shale, like ethanol and tar sands only work on large scales when there is an energy surplus cross-subsidizing the conversion process, and masses of money to wrap around the project and make it look more viable than it is. When TSHTF, there won't be.

Futures prices naturally tend downwards when you look at the raw numbers.

Please dont ever become a derivatives trader. Prices only go downwards when the market thinks prices will drop significantly in the future - LIKE NOW.

Let me explain something to you - futures contracts are free to enter into, and as such, your rate of return argument doesnt make sense. You still have the money in your pocket until you settle, so I'm not sure what your confusion is about this. Also futures are used primarily as a hedging and shareholder assurance mechanism, not an investment vehicle, so you are free to invest the money where you like until the futures contract expires.

Also investment bankers are the most informed players in the market. They set the futures price and companies take the contracts to hedge. Prices fall, bankers make the spread. If they get it wrong they lose billions, so I think it is you who hasnt a clue.

They didn't factor out energy prices in their inflation figures. Duh. So what. I'm talking about inflation adjusted. Not inflation adjusted adjusted adjusted. The point is current prices arent that high, so you might still have your job tomorrow if you're lucky.

This is a little naive if you ask me. How would the Italians, Indians or Malaysians work under your 1:1 scenario?.
last time I checked our culture and economy was a little different to India. They pay more for petrol as a proportion of earnings anyway, which strengthens my point that the US can handle much higher prices.

So instead of Australian banks collecting extra money from economic cooling, it's being funneled to oil producers. Charming.
Correct - this is happening every time you pump petrol into your scooter. And people keep their jobs like I said. Did you have a point or do you just like disagreeing for the sake of it?

Try convincing the greenies that.

I think we should have more use of wind & solar energy. Victoria is windy enough & the entire nation gets plenty of sun. Make it law to have solar panels on most buildings- street lights, traffic lights, etc - solar powered,

This would reduce our reliance on coal.

Except that we are not in any way, shape or form short on coal. We're short on oil. Parts of the world, including North America and New Zealand are also short on Natural Gas. We're not (yet).

well its even worse here in adelaide

on saturday i went for a drive and found that petrol is 95 cents at goolwa/victor harbor and then i drove to blackwood in the hills where its $1, but the moment i was in urban adelaide it was a bloody $1.15! this tells me that petrol is easier to get in goolwa than adelaide! and if this is the trend should hit 3 dollars by 2006-08!

bloody oil bastards, bloody oil-run cars. bloody OIL.

ive also learned that oil makes the world go round.

Parts of the world, including North America and New Zealand are also short on Natural Gas.

Well, the United States in any case, Canada, AFAIK is still a net exporter of Natural Gas

Aah, but who does Canada export to? The USA. Canada is required under NAFTA to export large quantities of their own gas, 60% IIRC. And Canada's own production is not far off its theoretical maximum.

Best thing that Canada can do to free up a bit of gas is substitute nuke plants for nat gas boilers to provide the steam necessary to wash the oil off the tar sands at its large tar-oil projects.

Some time in the last half hour, NYMEX light sweet crude passed through $47, up to 47.01, though it's since settled back at 46.96.

Crap 47!
Nuclear power is good and it may save us many people belive it needs a second look ! but thats a little off topic !

Nuclear power will become essential eventually, unless fusion (or really, really effiective solar) is invented in the mean time.

Aah, but who does Canada export to? The USA.

I know. There was some other whimisical remark I had worked out to make here, but now I've forgotten lol

*DING DING DING*

$48.20

And it doesn't seem to have run out of steam just yet, as the trading month draws to a close.

http://www.gifs.net/animate/car3.gif

lol @ cull

*DING DING DING*

$48.20

And it doesn't seem to have run out of steam just yet, as the trading month draws to a close.

And it's just shy of of US $50 closing at $49.40 over the weekend. It means petrol prices are set to reach $1.13 a litre in Sydney. The full effect of the latest rises will take 10-12 days to reach the browser.

Actually, it closed at 47.86 after a rally to 49.40. And it was the end of the trading month, so we'll shortly switch from September to October futures, which were about a buck cheaper. They closed at 46.72, though Sunday night trading opened 20 minutes ago and it's up to 46.81.

http://www.nymex.com/jsp/markets/lsco_fut_cso.jsp

I still think it's plausible that we'll break $50 in the coming week. It's just got a bit of a way to go before that happens.

Could have something to do with how environmentally degrading uranium mining is...

Nuclear power is shit.


LOL and so are you.

What is wrong with nuclear power? If the by products of the process are thoughtfully stored and or reprocessed it can be a very clean energy. Sure they have a half life of an eternity but that said new means will come into play in the future that will make this less of a problem. All developed nations basically use nuclear power... why? because its a better source of energy!

Nuclear can generate vast amounts of power - we have the uranium so we should be moving down this path right now.

nuclear isnt really a bad source of energy... uranium used to create steam to spin turbines -> power/electcity . The waste product of nuclear power plants is plutoium, which can be REUSED again by special power plants , as far as i know only japan has such a power plant.

Why we don't have power plants developing this kind of energy is beyond me - they don't need to be situated near cities, put them near a small town, what small dying Australian town wouldn't jump at the chance to be rich and become an exporter of energy to other parts of the country (Look at Tassie soon to be exporting Hydro-Electricity to Victoria)

Petrol in Australia is predicted to cost $3 per litre within a couple of years. this is prediction by petrol expert.
dear o dear.
hurry up alternate energy!

This may be the only option to introduce alternate methods to transport...Tubes, Trams, Maglevs from airport to major city centres...

Maglevs from airport to major city centres...

Under the $3/L scenario, I doubt there would be many airlines left in business. Qantas maybe.

As I suggested on another list, airports would be lucky to see three dozen flights a day under this scenario, as businesses would be wiped out by recession and those that pulled out of the perpetual quagmire would be local businesses, which have no need for air travel.

While airports could be developed into some form of commercial hubs, there would still be absolutely zero reason to invest in any form of express transport to or from airports. All stations services perhaps, to feed people in from two or more suburban lines. These use normal trains.

Maglev needs to be consigned to history next to the monorail as a bad idea. Not only is it useless for much other than express applications of hundreds of kilometres where it can reach cruising speed and maintain it for long periods of time (useless in the low energy future, since there will be little demand for long distance freight or passenger travel), it does not integrate into existing cities or existing transport systems. Its cost is therefore extraordinary, unless you castrate its ability to run into (read serve) our cities.

Can someone explain to me why Monorails are considered bad? I would've thought an elevated rail system would be a good thing for most folks!

Monorails and many Maglev systems tend to only work as closed loop systems, as pointworks tend to be giant, slow mechanical constructs. Also they have very low capacity. Also during emergencies they are extremely difficult to evacuate, short of putting a walkway next to the track around the network. Also, they visually pollute the skyline, particularly if you include an emergency walkway - sunlight is a nice thing. Also, they are expensive to build, and if you look at cost per passenger, they are probably one of the most expensive options you could pick, even more expensive than subways.

Last year some time the City of Casey down past Dandenong started pushing for a Monothinggy from Fountain Gate to Narre Warren Station, perhaps then down to Frankston. They didn't think to demand a decent bus service that ran more frequently than the trains and operated from first to last train. No. Did they buy one or two buses themselves, hire six drivers and provide a shuttle run themselves? No. This is a 1960s plan suburb with 1960s cul-de-sacs, a big 1960s era US style box mall. They have no plan to actually serve the people who *gasp* live there. They want a monorail to fly past overhead like it did in all those promotional pictures for 1960s cities and in 1960s era movies. Next thing they'll be asking that new cars sold in their city come built in with space-age tail fins, chrome grilles and white walls.

^^ bwahah. North Haverbrook!

At the full service station outside my building in Hamilton, gas is 79.9 a litre.

If you live a reasonable distance to your work/ uni, get a bike! No petrol needed! lol- keeps you fit too.

Tell that to Canadians/Detroitians in winter time !! lol.

Hehe, who said anything about Canadians? ;)

But seriously, its amazing to notice how often the bike is overlooked when it comes to looking for some magical new 'alternative transport/ alternative energy', when something that can fulfill both of those needs already exists!

Hydro electricity is one of the most environmentally destructive forms of power. Look at what happened with Lake Pedder in Tasmania.

@ MrPC - thanx that kind of lays it out for me. I want to know also when you weigh up trams vs buses which wins,

both have roughly the same capacity,
buses are faster; trams are more reliable,
buses are more abundant, flexible, cheaper and would have a greater pool of qualified drivers;
trams are cleaner, more open, lend character and cache to a city;
Buses are shouded in mystery as to the route they take, most people get a headache trying to decipher a bus map, trams on the other hand seem to be more straightforward.
Just curious to know, not so much what you prefer, cuz most of us would say trams, but which one do you consider the better more cost effective and cost sustainable form of transport?

If we're talking about alternative fuels for cars, how can we look past ethanol, I know it's gotten a bad wrap over the last two years, but if they could convert vehicles to run on 100% ethanol they might have something - think about it, it's made from sugar, Australia has a sugar industry going bust in traditional markets yet they're sitting on what is potentially one of the most sustainable fuels of all time and we're not picking this up, ethanol might be the answer!

Hehe, who said anything about Canadians? ;)

But seriously, its amazing to notice how often the bike is overlooked when it comes to looking for some magical new 'alternative transport/ alternative energy', when something that can fulfill both of those needs already exists!

I don't think I have the kind of steroids required to ride a bike these days!

@ MrPC - thanx that kind of lays it out for me. I want to know also when you weigh up trams vs buses which wins,

(Snipped)


There is less lateral movement to irritate standing passengers on trams relative to buses.
Buses do not last as long as trams do (one of the City Circle trams, SW5.728, was built when my grandparents were kids)
Trams load and unload faster thanks to boarding at any door, dramatically speeding up the service (though buses could theoretically switch to this if they had conductors or proof of payment)
The electricity that the trams run on can come from multiple fuel sources, including wind, solar etc. While Trolley Buses also run on electricity, the overhead for trolley buses is ridiculously complex due to the need for a second contact wire for return current
Buses have a stigma, whereas trams will attract rich, poor and most everyone inbetween (assuming they are any good)

Just curious to know, not so much what you prefer, cuz most of us would say trams, but which one do you consider the better more cost effective and cost sustainable form of transport?

Buses and Trams both have their merits and have their place in certain roles. Buses do not belong in CBDs at all. Trams would be overkill for many routes. However, as for preference, trams do kind of win overall. People seem to want to use trams. Though when the buses are out in the sticks and nobody important sees you on a bus, the stigma seems to have less effect than standing at a bus stop outside Melbourne Central while half the city walks past.

If we're talking about alternative fuels for cars, how can we look past ethanol

Easily. Biofuels can not be scaled up to meet demand, at least not current demand. They will probably have some role after the crash, but not much.

A tonne of C-grade molasses yields between 170 and 290 litres of ethanol, depending on the sugar content. In 1999, 1.2 million tonnes of molasses (all grades) was produced in Australia, of which 0.6 million tonnes was used domestically and the remainder exported as stockfeed or used in ethanol production. If exported molasses was also converted to ethanol, it would yield an additional 166 to 174 million litres of ethanol, less than the 360 million litres required to supply ethanol for an E10 blend in Queensland alone.

http://www.ronboswell.com/s2004.03.html

Oh, and aside from not even coming close to E10 demand in Queensland, let alone E100 demand nationwide, wouldn't those whom we export sugar to be a bit miffed if we suddenly cut off all sugar exports to produce a trickle of Ethanol for our own use?

Oh, and re Ethanol, I forgot to mention that the oil and natural gas inputs in planting, fertilizing, pesticides, herbicides, harvesting, transport, refinement and distribution are higher, probably significantly higher, than the value of the ethanol to displace the oil. It's a net energy loser, same as just about any food produced by modern agriculture.

The more people talk about this the easier it is for the oil companies to do it because people have been conditioned to expect it.

Realistically, at $1 a litre with oil at $45 a barrel, $3 a litre would require oil prices to be $135 a barrel. Projections of $3 a litre are garbage.

What shits me about oil prices is that often they are based not on what is actually happening in the world but on what people think might happen. That's such bullshit and goes against free market ideology.

There is also "price parity" which means real competition is stifled. A producer who can sell oil at $20 a barrel is not permitted to sell it at any cheaper than the current world oil price. This also goes against the free market and against everything globalisation was trying to achieve.

The more people talk about this the easier it is for the oil companies to do it because people have been conditioned to expect it.

Oil companies don't set the prices. The market does that. The companies simply don't produce if the market is not willing to pay a price that they accept, though there's no risk of that happening any time soon.

Realistically, at $1 a litre with oil at $45 a barrel, $3 a litre would require oil prices to be $135 a barrel.

Much higher than that actually, as you have neglected to factor in excise.

Matt Simmonds, a respected energy investment bank CEO does however feel that an appropriate price for oil around peak would be $182. $3/L for fuel is quite reasonable in these circumstances.

Projections of $3 a litre are garbage.

Prior to peak oil they are garbage. After peak oil, they will be reality, or at the very least, the beginning of incessant rises.

What shits me about oil prices is that often they are based not on what is actually happening in the world but on what people think might happen. That's such bullshit and goes against free market ideology.

There is also "price parity" which means real competition is stifled. A producer who can sell oil at $20 a barrel is not permitted to sell it at any cheaper than the current world oil price. This also goes against the free market and against everything globalisation was trying to achieve.

You have it somewhat confused. If an oil producer was stupid enough to sell at $20 while the market is prepared to pay $45, someone with a brain would buy their $20 oil and would sell it to someone else at $45. The oil company gets $20 and the intelligent person gets $25. The oil companies are however not stupid. If the market demands their product and is willing to pay $45, they will sell at $45 and collect all the money for themselves.

Don't ever make the mistake of thinking that the world would ever stop demanding oil. We will always demand it, and we will be willing to pay the price. Whether our economy can back up our offer is generally accepted, though it may not be for long. That puts oil buyers in a very weak position, particularly as supplies stretch to meet demand. A genuine crunch is expected around the end of this year, perhaps next year some time, as demand soars while supply tries hard to chug along at near the present rate, and as all the world's active spare capacity is gradually eaten up by growth.

Not looking good, considering China and India are using more and more oil

What shits me about oil prices is that often they are based not on what is actually happening in the world but on what people think might happen. That's such bullshit and goes against free market ideology.
Agreed - there is about a $12 geopolitical risk premium built into the current price of oil (aka oil companies profiteering in the name of middle east instability), as well as pricing movements caused by a bunch of hedge funds wanting to cash in their bets that the price will break the psychological $50 mark. And the oil companies are reaping the rewards. Some Analysts say that if the great President Bush announced a dip into US Strategic Petroleum Reserves the price would drop by over $10, effectively breaking the current cycle until things settle down in the Middle East.
If an oil producer was stupid enough to sell at $20 while the market is prepared to pay $45, someone with a brain would buy their $20 oil and would sell it to someone else at $45.
What would usually happen is the producer would sell for $44.99 and dump the lot. One of the underlying reasons why OPEC was formed in the first place was to stop so called rogue nations from doing this.

Agreed - there is about a $12 geopolitical risk premium built into the current price of oil

That's a bit of a furphy. The market is riding on fears that Q4 supply will not meet Q4 demand. However, the general public will be less scared if people believe it's the terrorists. It's in nobody's interests (well, nobody in power or influence) to start a recession sooner than it needs to happen.

Some Analysts say that if the great President Bush announced a dip into US Strategic Petroleum Reserves the price would drop by over $10, effectively breaking the current cycle until things settle down in the Middle East.

That is almost certain to not happen. Firstly, Bush criticized Clinton for doing exactly that in the leadup to the last election, to help get Dole elected. And further, given the extreme tightness in the supply situation, they will not be able to refill the SPR cheaply, if at all, after they've released it. Fact is that just now they are trying hard to fill the SPR, not deplete it.

When the crunch hits, the SPR will keep the US military going for some time, securing supplies for domestic consumption. It will not be wasted on domestic consumption in a time of genuine supply shortage, at least under an oil-savvy administration.

What would usually happen is the producer would sell for $44.99 and dump the lot. One of the underlying reasons why OPEC was formed in the first place was to stop so called rogue nations from doing this.

They tried, they failed. Cartels do not tend to work, as soon as the price goes up, it becomes too profitable to cheat. Fact is that cartel members are greedy, or else they never would have joined said cartel.

Doesn't change the fact that I do not believe the world could possibly produce more than around 82 million barrels a day while demand is presently around 81.5mbd and growing rapidly. Some major oilfields are in decline already (North Sea), some are forecast to enter decline in the next few years (Cantarell, and possibly Ghawar, the two most important oil fields in the world). No new discoveries could possibly compensate for declines in Cantarell for more than a year. And if Ghawar starts going down, the world is in deep s**t.

Ghawar represents about 60% of Saudi Arabia's output. They have been so desperate to keep production up at Ghawar that they drilled horizontal "maximum contact" wells to pump in water and keep the pressure up. Unfortunately, as soon as this water pumping hits the water table, pressure equalizes, and the field goes into an extremely rapid decline. Nobody really knows when this will happen, but it will, sooner or later, and when it does, we're screwed. They would very much like to ease up on the pressure at some point, in which case output will drop, at which point we're screwed. Or they could keep putting in more pressure and hit the water table much sooner, in which case we're screwed.

Cantarell uses Nitrogen injection instead of water injection. It's a bit safer, but it does have limits, PEMEX have basically said that they are unable to maintain current output beyond 2006, and the field will enter a 14% annual decline phase from that point onward.

However, demand will only continue to rise, and if supply can't meet it (through too much growth, or a drop in supply, or, heaven forbid, both), the world will go into recession as those with money try to outbid those without money, oil prices will hit the roof, countries with less buying power will end up having to sell everything they can to buy this month's oil, and will then have little left to buy next month's oil. Countries with larger buying power will keep buying but will pay larger prices, but there will be a hit to consumer spending, which will wipe out a lot of service sector jobs, and tip them into a milder recession than the aforementioned minor countries, but still a painful one.

If supply goes down in that time, there will be little scope for any economies to bootstrap themselves out of recession (which by definition implies growth in the economy, growth in oil usage, in industries, petrochemicals, and of course, people driving to and from their new jobs and on the occasional holiday with their new money). If there's less oil to be used, then the recovery will seem minor and another recession will hit, and it'll start to go away, then another, until people get the message that the present economic model has no future without growth.

Is there a bug in this board that prevents post 101 from being displayed? It's not giving me an option for page 6 just now. Perhaps a 102nd post will fix it.

Edit: Bingo

Some good thoughts there MrPC, i pretty much agree with you- and am now starting to really think hard about a future without abundant oil!

Here is one way to beat skyrocketing petrol prices - obtaining 4 cents of a litre coupons at Coles and Woolworths. It also discusses a loophole that enables the person to get even more discounts. Have any of you actually done it?

From The Daily Telegraph (dailytelegraph.com.au)
Tips to beat petrol prices
By FLEUR ANDERSON

August 27, 2004

AUSTRALIAN motorists are driving less and exploiting a loophole in their weekly shopping bills to snare extra discount fuel dockets to cope with record fuel prices.

With the average capital city petrol price approaching $1.10 a litre, consumers have already adjusted their habits to cover the petrol burden.

A growing number of people are putting their grocery shopping through the checkout in $30 lots in order to get multiple fuel discount vouchers from Coles and Woolworths.

And two-thirds of motorists are driving less, according to a survey by petrol monitoring group MotorMouth.

Treasurer Peter Costello yesterday said Australia's economy could be hurt by high oil prices.

"If the world oil price stays up at around $US40 or $US50 a barrel it will affect the world economy, the world economy will grow slower, and if the world economy grows slower that will affect Australia," Mr Costello said.

A $US1 rise in the price of a barrel of oil on the world market translates to roughly a A1c a litre jump at the pump for Australian motorists.

Mr Costello cautioned against making a link between rising petrol prices and interest rates.

Interest rates teeter on a knife-edge – if economic growth slows, interest rates could stay on hold.

If oil prices push the cost of living too high, rates could go up.

The nation's main consumer group and the service station industry are encouraging consumers to make the most of the discount petrol vouchers by splitting their shopping into $30 lots.

"I've seen people do it," Australian Consumers Association motoring spokesman Norm Crothers said.

"It drives the people in the queue nuts but with prices going up people are making sure they get the maximum discount."

Service Station Association chief executive Ron Bowden encouraged Australian shoppers at Coles and Woolworths to demand a new shopping docket for every $30 they spend.

He said 4c a litre off was not "huge value" and represented a discount of only $100 a year for the average motorists.

"It's misleading and it pushes all the business to Coles and Woolworths," Mr Bowden said.

"But how many people on low incomes, like pensioners, are not getting the benefit," he said.

The association estimated the petrol discount docket scheme cost ColesMyer and Woolworths about $100 million a year.

Independent retailers have a similar deal, inviting shoppers to bring in fuel receipts to IGA stores, spend at least $30 in the shop and be reimbursed 4c for every litre of petrol bought.

Hip hip hooray. Aussie petrol to only cost $2.96 a litre.

Hydro electricity is one of the most environmentally destructive forms of power. Look at what happened with Lake Pedder in Tasmania.

What did happen to it?

(a rhetorical question). Admittedly, it happened in the 70s (before I was born) so I don't know a lot about the politics of it at the time, but it's not like people look back on it now like some sort of ecological disaster. Some people say "oh we shouldn't have done it" but it is just one of about 30 hydro dams in Tassie. It's no worse than building skyscrapers is today, and how many of us would want to stop that?

Can you honestly say Tasmania would be better off if all its power was being generated by burning coal and diesel?

dirty dirty arabs :D

ROFL

i think they are doing us a favour by telling us we need to use public transport :D

Canada has Oil and Water coming out of its ass!! HAHAHAHAH

Honestly though the Athabasca oil fields have more Oil deposits in the form of Sand and deposits than Saudi Arabia, Soon enough we'll figure a way to extract it through efficient means.

hey guys, how expensive is petrol getting in your area?
on Central Coast now its avergaing $1.12 per lit.
damn

Still around 91c here. Remember it being the same years ago.... Actually with inflation taken into account it's cheaper than it was 10 years ago.

Where's the article "Aussie Petrol to top 40c in 1990's terms" because realistically that's what's happening. If petrol did hit $3/litre it would still not be all that much more expensive than it has been in the past. People go nuts over a few cents when really it makes SFA difference. I mean 10c/litre is what $5 in your average tank? You waste more than that just buying a drink with lunch each day.

princes highway and king geogre's road have been around $1.15 - $1 in the past days.

deleted

Australia's oil production peaked a few years ago, and is rapidly declining, according to www.peakoil.net. I think the reason Austrailia hasn't found any more significant reserves of oil is less to do with money and more to do with actual geology.

I wouldnt believe everything you read on peakoil.net.

I'd believe some of it.

The forums there are full of scary/hilarious gun-nuts, racists and other assorted retards though.

Well with a name like peakoil.net they're not exactly going to be fair and balanced.

We are about 70% self reliant in oil at the moment. Unfortunatley that will drop to around 30% within 5 years as unlike almost every other nation, Australia hasn't had the legislation in place to encourage oil & gas exploration. Thats why alot of local companies go offshore for oil and gas, as they get assistance from other countries.

The funny thing about the Bass Strait oil field is that it was supposed to have run out about ten years back but it is still going strong and some wells are capped and being saved at the moment.
I dont believe the $3 a litre price will happen in the short term but if it does happen were are all F****D!

We have oil field north of Adelaide, Timor Sea and Indian Ocean. Plenty to go around for at least another 50 years.

Heaps of oils (i presume) in Great Barrier Reef. Most fields are not tapped yet.

delete

Ive worked in the offshore oil game for over 10 year so i don't know where you get your info from. I happened to be part of the 9 month $70 million exploration program carried out 2 1/2 years ago by Esso(was the Bosun on the survey vessel the Geko Beta). Their figures are as follows, only 35% of oil remaining, plus 70% of gas before the exploration program was carried out. They used to get 100,000 barrels of water with each 500,000 barrels of oil they pumped, now it is reversed.

Is the water cut a result of water injection (and are they drilling maximum contact wells in bass strait)? Or is it some form of seepage?

I'm led to believe that if we are using such strategies, there is a serious risk of pressure equalization sending oil output quickly down the crapper long before the field ever actually runs out.

Crude has fallen to $46.84 from $55.67 in late October.

hey whats petrol cost now? yesterday not far from me up at Manning Point ,Central Coast it was $1.55 per litre!!!
in Umina/woy woy is currenlty $1.16

here its abt $106.9 ish. Cheaper @ woolworths & coles lol

My petrol costs $6.10 for 10 trips between 9am and 3pm. $11.10 before 9am and after 3pm.

I can get from Gawler to Noarlunga during peak hour for $1.01. Beat that, car drivers!

1.10 or something here supposedly

1.10 or something here supposedly
Cheapest place in Brisbane today is in the outer northern suburb, Mango Hill - 95.4c per ltr.
In the western suburbs its over $1.03 per ltr.
jt

and just as i got my first car :(

I plan to buy an electric car (They have ones that run like normal cars, so theres no loss of power really.. Honda have prototypes . Not for sale, just advertising them)

But for now i have to keep a petrol powered car since i dong have lots of money to buy an electric hybrid, or even LPG.

Oh well.

and just as i got my first car :(

I plan to buy an electric car (They have ones that run like normal cars, so theres no loss of power really.. Honda have prototypes . Not for sale, just advertising them)

But for now i have to keep a petrol powered car since i dong have lots of money to buy an electric hybrid, or even LPG.

Oh well.
Buy a second hand Toyota Prius from Q Fleet, They have had them for many years now and should be starting to get rid of them soon. They have 80 of them!!

jt

That's actually a really clever idea JayT

I didn't even think about Q Fleet Toyota Prii (whats the plural for prius?)

The Prius 1 were really shitty but the Prius II are awesome.

does anyone know the price of converting pertol to LPG. I have a Hilux ute that im very fond of and i dont wanna get rid of it for some lil weak electric car.

it isn't that simple Maroon Grown. The conversion is only viable if you do over 15,000 kilometres per year and it would be a few thousand.

Buy a second hand Toyota Prius from Q Fleet, They have had them for many years now and should be starting to get rid of them soon. They have 80 of them!!

Danger! Danger Will Robinson!

Every 5 years or so, the battery array on a Prius has to be ripped out and replaced. That's several thousand dollars worth.

Better to get something conventional but underpowered, or perhaps a motorcycle. Far fewer issues would arise.

www.greenvehicleguide.gov.au

Danger! Danger Will Robinson!

Every 5 years or so, the battery array on a Prius has to be ripped out and replaced. That's several thousand dollars worth.

Better to get something conventional but underpowered, or perhaps a motorcycle. Far fewer issues would arise.

Or how about the most efficient form of transport ever invented - the bicycle!

The bicycle is not more efficiant than a car YOB.

(Depending on your definition of efficiancy)

Ratio of input to output.

Ok, well in that case yes it probably is.

But i was assuming you meant Ease of travel/speed etc.

How is that efficiancy?

I find it hard to believe that petrol at Manning Point got up to $1.55/litre. The weekend after Easter I was around that general lower mid-north coast area, and petrol was hovering at around $1.10 - $1.15/litre. Of course, if there is photographic proof then I guess I'll just have to start believing it :)

Petrol is 97c at Bulimba today.

I stand corrected:

In Sydney and Melbourne, prices of 116 cents a litre were recorded at the beginning of the week, while it was even higher in rural areas.

The NSW central coast town of Manning Point hiked prices to 155 cents per litre for unleaded fuel.

http://finance.news.com.au/story/0,10166,12842913-462,00.html

I saw 119c/L last week. This was in southern Sydney. It was scary, and it really helped to strike home that we need to invest in public transport, big time here in Sydney. When the SHTF, Western Sydney and the Northern Beaches are absolutely, positively screwed. PT/MT networks (more specifically trains and trams) are the way forward.

It's sitting at $1.05 per litre at Bulimba this weekend, which I have noticed is one of Brisbane's cheaper places for petrol. There was a time last year where there was a 21c discrepancy between fuel here and at Ballina.

Long story short, if it's that expensive here, I'd hate to be south of the border in a 1985 V12 Jaguar XJS! :D

Well its been eight months since this thread was started, oil prices have peaked twice, and petrol prices have risen by a grand total of.........20 cents.

Given that the prediction related to Peak Oil (and related stagflation), which will only be clear in hindsight and will probably come up like an ambush when it hits, 20c is about right. While Iran has just peaked, Saudi Arabia and Kuwait still have a bit left in them.

Once Saudi Arabia peaks, the post-peak %age output drop will cause some serious price shocks before too long. That will push prices up a fair notch. Then the economy will begin to stagnate and inflation will kick in bigtime.

"Petrol costs more, give me a raise!" "Diesel costs more, so I'll charge you more to move stuff" "Delivering stuff costs more, so I'll charge the customer more" "Everything I buy costs more, give me a raise" "Staff costs have gone up, so I will also need to charge more".

I think he said 2006-2007. Ultimately it's now up to the Saudi oilfields. At what point do they give and then begin the chain reaction?

Rising prices can only be good.

We should get the Diesel the Europeans get, because it's cleaner and looses its dirty fuel charge meaning more people will use it, thus saving oil.

I jest cant wait till the prices get to 3$ sorry its good for the planet.

petrol set to soar by weeks end. upwards of $1.20lt in sydney.

I want my hydrogen-cell cars, dammit!

I want to ride trains & walk.

I want my hydrogen-cell cars, dammit!

Problem is that more than 95% of it is produced from oil refining.

Petrol in Melbourne is going crazy. someday i saw two petrol stations next to eachother, one was 89.9c the other was 96.5c. you can tell which one had the que 20m up the road.

Petrol in Melbourne is going crazy. someday i saw two petrol stations next to eachother, one was 89.9c the other was 96.5c. you can tell which one had the que 20m up the road.

waitasec... Petrol at 89.9?

You'll hardly find anything under $1 in Sydney these days.

Pffft Fucking petroleum companies, the automobile industry & all of the accompanying overheads.

Even more reason to improve our major cities and towns' transport systems...although Perth and Brisbane are already doing so.

Rant over http://www.sayhey.co.uk/invboard/html/emoticons/closedeyes.gif

Would the QLD government mandate petrol stations to check peoples ID, to ensure that only state residents can get the GST (8.35 cents per litre) rebate?

waitasec... Petrol at 89.9?

You'll hardly find anything under $1 in Sydney these days.
Thursday's the day when you can get 95.9 at least now days. twas a while back when a saw that. maybe Febuary. On average, petrol in Melbourne is $1.05. i've seen $1.12 once and some people use Shell Optimax etc. and they cost 8c more per litre! :uh: good thing i don't drive!

Pffft Fucking petroleum companies, the automobile industry & all of the accompanying overheads.

I hope you know that it's not petroleum companies that are causing the current price hikes. Prices are high because demand growth is soaring while supply is waning.

The North Sea has peaked, as has Mexico (the Cantarell field off the Mexican coast is the world's 2nd most important), Australia, the US peaked in 1970, just about everyone but Saudi Arabia and Russia has peaked. Supply growth in Russia has basically stopped for the time being though, since they doubt they can hold their own. Everyone's looking to Saudi Arabia to come true to all their various bluster over the last few decades about being able to bring supply online quickly, to see whether it's true and whether they can actually bring online the kinds of oil that the world's refiners can actually use. Chances are good they can't, and that all they have left ready to tap is heavy, sour sludge.

The North Sea was what basically saved us from a (much less accomodating) OPEC back in the 80s. It's no longer able to help. Now OPEC is switching between policical bluster (Saudi can open the taps) and geological reality (we can't supply a great deal more of what the world wants) depending on who is doing the talking. I'd believe the geologists over the politicians and marketing types any day.

damn this peak oil thing has me scared now. today's oil closed at 60 bucks per barrel. i think we're entering the first few stages of "peaking".

i feel sorry for countries without oil now. at least us up here in canada still have tons of it (and water!). man, we're lucky to have so many resources here, but i would trade it all for a climate like OZ. lol.

i was reading in the west australian today that the average price is $1.03, and your only paying 46c for product but the rest of the cost comes from gst, and shipping etc.

i feel sorry for people in outback oz that have to pay a lot more!

i feel sorry for countries without oil now. at least us up here in canada still have tons of it (and water!). man, we're lucky to have so many resources here, but i would trade it all for a climate like OZ. lol.

Actually, Canada doesn't have that much oil. It does have plenty of tar sands, which with a lot of energy can be converted into something approximating oil, but energy is something North America is going to run short on before too long.

Natural Gas is presently used to heat the water to get the steam needed to separate the tar from the sand. North American natural gas production is waning, it doesn't meet seasonal demand highs, and hasn't for some time. There's plenty of storage capacity in Louisiana though, and that's helped even things out. They inject in spring and au.. err, fall, and draw down those reserves in summer and winter. However, a hot summer or a cold winter could cause an actual shortage if they draw down the lot and it remains hot/cold/whatever. It's been pretty mild the last few years.

They plan to switch to nuclear to provide steam directly. Fine. I'll believe it when I see it, but that won't go on a great deal longer since there's not a lot of growth prospects in world uranium supplies, and fast breeders (which are often touted) have not been made to work effectively and are being shut down in most of the countries that have built them.

For the moment, the energy inputs are not that relevant because the prices have been low, and even with the recent gas price increases, they are still quite low in reality. As oil prices go up, industries that are able to make the switch to gas will do so. That will cause an even worse gas supply squeeze, spiraling prices, and a lot of questions about whether production of tar sands is really worth it. Even if those nuke plants are built, the huge number of gas plants around NA used for base load power (morons, gas is best at peak load and useless as base load) means that the steam would be best directed into a turbine instead of an oil sands plant, to help alleviate the inevitable rolling blackouts.

whats cost of petrol now where you live?
at local at Unima this week ist hit $1.30 litre.
my piggy bank after i filled up>
http://media2.davesdaily.com/pictures/419-piggybank.jpg

So glad my car got stolen...

so glad i catch the train

This is what we get for supporting George Bush pissing off the Arabs. :D

I just hope that this will encourage more expansion of public transportation and the use of alternative energy sources.

I hear that there is huge waiting list of many months for those ordering Toyota's hybrid car. I think we'll see more and more of these kinds of vehicles.

i was reading in the west australian today that the average price is $1.03, and your only paying 46c for product but the rest of the cost comes from gst, and shipping etc.

i feel sorry for people in outback oz that have to pay a lot more!

Patrick, why feel sorry for them - alot of wasted money is spent maintaining services and building infrastructure for a few people - They should pay more, why should we fund their prices? I do feel for them having to pay more to run their machinery and plant equipment. I mean we rely on our farmers/miners/others etc for support and they do a good job but it is not up to us to cover all their expenditure.

Yeah so glad i use Synergy 8000 ... not! It is so expensive.

At 80 bucks to fill a tank - it chews the juice, esp when on boost. :( I am glad in some ways I didn't get the corvette as a V8 would have been even worse to keep moving.

THings already cost too much to freight in Australia and consumer products are going to skyrocket thanks to increasing oil prices - this is where our small population and the problems with our large sparse landmass really start to hit home. Australia is really stuffed if we can't embrace better methods of freight distribution and fuel sources less reliant on oil.

Farmers (not people who live in country towns though) get tax breaks on their fuel so I wouldn't worry about them at all. Meanwhile today it was $1.26L between Melbourne and Geelong

I saw it at $1.34 here yesterday...

A oil industry expert warned tonight on Seven News that if the Government didn't cap the price of petrol it would go up to $1.50 within the month and be up around $1.60 by Christmas!

Price caps don't work. You'll just have a massive supply shortage leaving people queuing at petrol stations for hours. They've tried it before.

You mess with the price mechanism and things go crazy.

$1.60 by xmas we cant still live with that

The government needs to lower their tax on fuel or it's going to hurt a lot of sectors of the economy. Retail is already slowing - especially bulky goods.

From The Canberra Times (www.thecanberratimes.com.au)

Even taking 50c a litre off could come at a cost
MMannheim
Sunday, 4 September 2005

CREDIT providers are using soaring petrol prices to lure low-income earners into "dangerous" levels of debt, according to Canberra's financial crisis centre.
The director of the Care Financial Counselling Service, David Tennant, has warned consumers to be wary of credit card and home loan products tied to fuel discounts.

He said spikes in the price of petrol this year had coincided with a large increase in ACT families seeking his organisation's help.

"[Credit] offers of this type might very well be the purchases that send people over the edge," he said.

In the six months to June this year, Care received 1022 new contacts from clients, a 10 per cent increase on the previous six months.

Mr Tennant said the increase in families that needed assistance was due to a 0.25 per cent interest rate rise in March and soaring petrol prices, which have risen by almost 30 per cent since January.

"Our clients are increasingly sensitive, and vulnerable, to very small macroeconomic changes," he said.

"The flow-on consequences from petrol price changes are felt immediately at the bowser, but they're then felt in other cost increases, too - food, groceries, clothing and all the other goods that require transportation."

Crude oil prices passed a new record of $US70 [$A91] a barrel in the wake of Hurricane Katrina, which severely disrupted oil production in the United States.

This week, several economists forecast prices of $1.60 at Australian bowsers by the end of the year.

Credit card giants Visa and Mastercard have both capitalised on the petrol price panic by waging a discount war in partnership with Woolworths and Coles.

Each is offering fuel discounts of 4c a litre on top of similar discounts from the supermarkets, provided that the fuel is bought on credit.

A number of credit unions and home loan providers have also taken advantage of the focus on fuel by launching mortgage products that give debtors petrol discounts of between more than 10c a litre for a year - one organisation is offering as much as 50c off a litre.

The deputy chief executive officer of the Australian Consumer Association, Norm Crothers, shared Care's concerns about credit cards, saying they were a poor way of carrying debt.

"Credit cards generally, if you don't use them very strictly, are a pretty nasty product," he said.

"A lot of poorer people consistently rely on them to bridge pay day to pay day, or pension day to pension day, and they're forever paying off a debt."

Personal credit card debt in Australia has increased from $5.6billion in 1995 to $31.5billion.

Mr Crothers said linking credit to petrol use was likely to affect those who were less able to meet repayments.

"In the ACT, poorer people tend to live further out [in the suburbs] where there's less public transport and they're more car-dependent," he said.

Prominent ACT financial adviser Wayne Lear warned that petrol discount schemes may sound better than they are.

Mr Lear, the chief financial planner with Conscious Money, said that even the most "generous" product on the market - Australian National Credit Union's home loan, which was linked to a 50c-a-litre fuel discount over one year, capped at 80 litres a week - amounted to a "drop in the ocean".

"What sort of person would make a decision on a mortgage based on getting a petrol card?" he said.

"The devil's in the detail - there are never any free lunches."

i heard beacuse of the disaster in new orleans the US will down the prices of oil which will lower petrol prices globally? so they will decrease not increase as many predicted. lets hope.

so glad i catch the train

so glad i walk to school.

it's a no-win situation for us motorists. we drive, we pay exhorbitant prices. we ride the train, we wait for eternity.

And to think I just bought a $9000 car a couple of months back. Typical.

Gas is NZ$1.53/L in Auckland. I might need to....uh...."accidently" run if off the harbour bridge and claim insurance. Then I can buy a hang glider and glide to work. Ha! Beat that!

Oil forms an amazing group of hydrocarbons, that have totally revolutionised the world, for the first time in the history of the world we had found a cheap and nearly in exhaustable source of energy.

Most people have this burning ideology in their minds that oil, is really only used for fuel in cars and thats about it, and when they hear things like oil will cost $3 a litre, all the they say is well looks like ill be riding my bike then... but in reality it is much more deeper than that.

Currently there is not one alternate energy source that can rival oils chemical and energy attributes as well as its very low cost. Many ppl belive that hydrogen is the future to cars, however current methods are very expensive and polluting and it takes more energy to make commercial hydrogen than it will actually produce, not to mention it is made by the cracking of the same hydrocarbons that are expected to become very expensive. This leaves us in a bind....but dont worry nuclear is here! well uranium-238 is will be depleted in the near future and currently there is not one nuclear power plant designed to run on an alternate uranium source which is being pioneered now, ot to mention how deadly the new system is.

But dont worry we have solar ! at its current price, not to mention its high production costs, which uses over 20 times its own weight in oil to produce 1 panel, they wont be getting too cheap. i just cant see enough solar panels coming up in the next 20yrs to supplement over 80 million barrels of oil energy currently used by the world. either way solar energy cannot be stored, not the same way oil can be.

Qantas last year announced that it spent an extra 800million AUS on oil costs...at this present time they are able to offset that by lower that targeted profits and increasing prices, but can you see a point coming where one day, the prices will have rose so much that the average person cannot afford to fly, sending Qantas along with major airliners out of buisiness, putting lots of pressure on a now strained government, and without major air travel, transportation becomes ever more expensive, due to more demand with less supply...eventually mass unemployment happens and total economic failure..

Oil is such a versatile source of energy, it will never be matched, put it like this, try to push ur car along a flat road while it is in nuetral..pretty hard isnt it, u get a massive sweat and what for ? a measly few km/hr for a minute or two....now add 1L of fuel into the car and u can reach speeds of over 100km/hr for quite a long distance and very fast. see what an amazing compound it is.

Even if fusion power is developed in the next 10 yrs to become commercially viable, which is what they have promised us since the late 60s, it will not quench the worlds oil needs at all. Every singe thing u own has either needed oil in its manurafacture, or for its transport or both, all plastics are made from oil as are most drugs. if u buy a camera for instance, the metals and plastics have been made using oil at a refinery, then shipped halfway across the world to be assembled, then flown around the world again to be sold...its like that for every item u own.

We extract about 13 992 000 000 Litres or thirteen thousand nine hundred and ninety two billion litres of oil a day from the crust of the earth, eventually problems were bound to happen.

But dont kid urselfs, we will never run out of oil for good, there will always be lots left. just wont be economical to extract it. Our great great grandkids will look at us and think...who were these monsters...

Aaron BApSci (Chem, Indust Chem)(UnderGrad)

^^ Alot of your information is debatable, but yeah you have the basic idea. I once did, but now do not believe in doomsday scenarios with Peak Oil, as i believe there are ways around it, but will take tremendous planning and restructuring of society. Maybe ill write about it sometime soon

Yeah, Doomsdayers jump on these things like flys and make it really hard to interpret truth and bullshit

And to think I just bought a $9000 car a couple of months back. Typical.

Gas is NZ$1.53/L in Auckland. I might need to....uh...."accidently" run if off the harbour bridge and claim insurance. Then I can buy a hang glider and glide to work. Ha! Beat that!
Would certianly be a novel way to get to work anyway! lol

....

I'm not buying a lot of the doomsday theories that base themselves on "we're all stuffed because x will run out in y years and every possible alternative won't work". They said it was impossible to reach the moon a hundred years ago. Aircraft and submarines existed only in the realms of science fiction.

In the end, human life is not sustainable. We might as well try to be like the alchemists and try to turn rocks into gold.

up to $1.39 litr @ local. fark

no one is worried that in a few years will look back with wounder about the ease we could travel ?

Should go down to about 1.30 about Monday, Tomorrow if we're lucky, hopefully this will open peoples eyes to how fragile petrol prices will be for now and possible the future.

Any decided to take a train to work? it's somewhat cheaper to take a train than the car now.

I'm not buying a lot of the doomsday theories that base themselves on "we're all stuffed because x will run out in y years and every possible alternative won't work". They said it was impossible to reach the moon a hundred years ago. Aircraft and submarines existed only in the realms of science fiction.

In the end, human life is not sustainable. We might as well try to be like the alchemists and try to turn rocks into gold.

Human life can be sustainable, just not the way in which it has currently manifested itself.

I don't work, but if somewhere's too far to walk, I use public transport. Not that I have a choice...

Any decided to take a train to work? it's somewhat cheaper to take a train than the car now.
i catch the train anyhow but i dont actually drive much outside Central coast now. way too expensive. ive spoke to alot of people i know up here and some have already sold there gas guzzling 4WD for a less fuel hungry car. They also tell me tthe family hoiliday will be thing of the past especially the old drive around Australia or up the coast.
gee when i moved up here last year it was under 1$ a litre. its nearly gone up 50%! silly.

50%? Well It's at about 1.37 now, it hasnt been near 70c since the 80s.

^
That would be nearly a 100% increase Cee em Bee.

llol. 50% increase from 1$ means= $1.50.
sorry if i confused you.
in other words its rising way to fast.

Getting a little mixed up in the maths... hehehe. A 50% decrease of $1.40 = 70c.
But a 50% increase from 70c is onlt $1.05. :)

Anyways, iirc, petrol was 66 cents in the mid 90s.

66c? Really?

Petrol was in the high 60s in the late 90s - I recall it went down as low as 59 cents.

I remember it being about 1.05 in 1999?

Yep, I recall 58.9 the day Carlton played its last match at VFL Park, Waverley in 1999.

My biggest regret in life now is that I didn't buy a full tank of petrol then and there.

The upside to this over-priced petrol bizzo is that it will force us to look at other technologies and improving our public transport.

got this email today

IT HAS BEEN CALCULATED THAT IF EVERYONE IN AUSTRALIA DID NOT PURCHASE
A DROP OF PETROL FOR ONE DAY AND ALL AT THE SAME TIME, THE OIL COMPANIES
WOULD CHOKE ON THEIR STOCKPILES.

AT THE SAME TIME IT WOULD HIT THE ENTIRE INDUSTRY WITH A NET LOSS OVER
4.6 BILLION DOLLARS WHICH AFFECTS THE BOTTOM LINES OF THE OILCOMPANIES.

THEREFORE SEPTEMBER 15th HAS BEEN FORMALLY DECLARED "STICK IT UP THEIR BEHIND "ON THAT DAY AND THE PEOPLE OF THIS NATION SHOULD NOT BUY A SINGLEDROP OF PETROL ON THAT PARTICULAR DAY


THE ONLY WAY THIS CAN BE DONE IS IF YOU FORWARD THIS E-MAIL TO AS MANY
PEOPLE AS YOU CAN AND AS QUICKLY AS YOU CAN TO GET THE WORD OUT.

WAITING ON THE GOVERNMENT TO STEP IN AND CONTROL THE PRICES IS NOT
GOING TO HAPPEN. WHAT HAPPENED TO THE REDUCTION AND CONTROL IN PRICES THAT THE ARAB NATIONS PROMISED TWO WEEKS AGO?

REMEMBER ONE THING, NOT ONLY IS THE PRICE OF PETROL GOING UP BUT AT
THE SAME TIME AIRLINES ARE FORCED TO RAISE THEIR PRICES, TRUCKINGCOMPANIES ARE FORCED TO RAISE THEIR PRICES WHICH EFFECTS PRICES ON EVERYTHING THAT IS SHIPPED.
THINGS LIKE FOOD, CLOTHING, BUILDING SUPPLIES MEDICAL SUPPLIES ETC.

WHO PAYS IN THE END? WE DO!

WE CAN MAKE A
DIFFERENCE.


IF THEY DON'T GET THE MESSAGE AFTER ONEDAY, WE WILL DO IT AGAIN AND AGAIN.
SO DO YOUR PART AND PLEASE SPREAD THE WORD.
FORWARD THIS EMAIL TO EVERYONE YOU KNOW.
MARK YOUR CALENDARS AND MAKE SEPTEMBER 15th A DAY THAT THE CITIZENS

OF AUSTRALIA SAY "ENOUGH IS ENOUGH"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I got the same e-mail, but it said Sept 22nd. Crazy chain mails.

Yep, I recall 58.9 the day Carlton played its last match at VFL Park, Waverley in 1999.

My biggest regret in life now is that I didn't buy a full tank of petrol then and there.

The upside to this over-priced petrol bizzo is that it will force us to look at other technologies and improving our public transport.


Well there must have been a huge huge rise because I remember it going up to 1.07 some time between 1999 and 2001

Shouldn't the petrol be cheaper now that Iraq has been "liberated"?

A Currrent Affair were promoting the petrol boycott last night. Must mean they know it can't possibly do any damage otherwise they'd be sued...

Shouldn't the petrol be cheaper now that Iraq has been "liberated"?

If it was "all about oil", then yes.

hey i have a novel idea. lets go back to horse and cart!
took this today in Clarence st. god luv em.
http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/8541/horsys8ut.jpg

A Currrent Affair were promoting the petrol boycott last night. Must mean they know it can't possibly do any damage otherwise they'd be sued...


That's basically how A current affairs shows work though, they tell their most avid viewers(morons) what they want to hear, If Ray Martin talked about how lowering prices would lead to more trouble when it came to supply and how one day boycotts wouldn't work their viewer wouldn't know what the hell they were talking about and switch over to Today Tonight which is even worse.

Refineries braced for fuel demos
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4243950.stm
London:

Oil refineries are preparing for demonstrations as fuel price activists call for a day of protest.

The activists are angry the government has not cut fuel duty despite rocketing oil prices.

They have told their supporters to protest peacefully and not to block tankers moving in and out.

But there has been panic-buying by customers who fear a repeat of the protests of 2000, which paralysed the country for a week.

The September 2000 protests saw refineries blockaded for a day and then picketed, with tanker drivers unwilling to risk their safety and the oil firms refusing to force their drivers to cross the pickets.

Many hauliers, farmers, taxi drivers and others joined the 2000 protests, but fuel protesters say they are unsure how many will turn up now.

The government, police and oil industry believe lessons have been learned from the events of September 2000.

There are emergency plans for dealing with disrupted fuel supplies and if the tankers keep moving - and panic buying subsides - there should not be further shortages at the pumps.

But fuel suppliers have said they are struggling to cope with demand for petrol after filling stations saw a week's worth of demand in a single day.

Representatives of petrol giants said the issue was one of getting the tankers to the filling stations rather than one of supply.

It is feared predictions of shortages have become a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Chris Hunt, director general of the UK Petroleum Industry Association, which represents oil giants Shell, BP, Esso and Total, said tanker deliveries had been boosted by 10 to 15%.

But he said: "We've had a week's-worth of demand in one day.

"I believe folks are still queuing up, but there is absolutely no need to do so."

The Association of Chief Police Officers (Acpo) said any attempts to "disrupt essential goods and services that rely on oil" would be met by "firm action" from police forces.

RAC head of campaigns Sue Nicholson warned panic-buyers could create a repeat of the fuel crisis of 2000 when protests over prices led to a shortage.

"Panic buying is widespread, it's a self-perpetuating, self-feeding frenzy," she said.

But Friends of the Earth are urging Chancellor Gordon Brown not to bow to pressure to cut fuel duty, for the sake of the environment.

Cutting fuel excise won't fix anything. It's an artificial saving that will be absorbed and the fuel price will go back up within a few months.

^^ exactly

Shouldn't the petrol be cheaper now that Iraq has been "liberated"?

Probably not. They don't exactly have unlimited oil supplies.

Did anyone watch The Oil Storm on Ch 7 the other night?

this is still happening!! Thursday sept 22!

IT HAS BEEN CALCULATED THAT IF EVERYONE IN AUSTRALIA DID NOT PURCHASE
A DROP OF PETROL FOR ONE DAY AND ALL AT THE SAME TIME, THE OIL COMPANIES
WOULD CHOKE ON THEIR STOCKPILES.

AT THE SAME TIME IT WOULD HIT THE ENTIRE INDUSTRY WITH A NET LOSS OVER
4.6 BILLION DOLLARS WHICH AFFECTS THE BOTTOM LINES OF THE OILCOMPANIES.

THEREFORE SEPTEMBER 22nd HAS BEEN FORMALLY DECLARED "STICK IT UP THEIR BEHIND "ON THAT DAY AND THE PEOPLE OF THIS NATION SHOULD NOT BUY A SINGLEDROP OF PETROL ON THAT PARTICULAR DAY


THE ONLY WAY THIS CAN BE DONE IS IF YOU FORWARD THIS E-MAIL TO AS MANY
PEOPLE AS YOU CAN AND AS QUICKLY AS YOU CAN TO GET THE WORD OUT.

WAITING ON THE GOVERNMENT TO STEP IN AND CONTROL THE PRICES IS NOT
GOING TO HAPPEN. WHAT HAPPENED TO THE REDUCTION AND CONTROL IN PRICES THAT THE ARAB NATIONS PROMISED TWO WEEKS AGO?

REMEMBER ONE THING, NOT ONLY IS THE PRICE OF PETROL GOING UP BUT AT
THE SAME TIME AIRLINES ARE FORCED TO RAISE THEIR PRICES, TRUCKINGCOMPANIES ARE FORCED TO RAISE THEIR PRICES WHICH EFFECTS PRICES ON EVERYTHING THAT IS SHIPPED.
THINGS LIKE FOOD, CLOTHING, BUILDING SUPPLIES MEDICAL SUPPLIES ETC.

WHO PAYS IN THE END? WE DO!

WE CAN MAKE A
DIFFERENCE.


IF THEY DON'T GET THE MESSAGE AFTER ONEDAY, WE WILL DO IT AGAIN AND AGAIN.
SO DO YOUR PART AND PLEASE SPREAD THE WORD.
FORWARD THIS EMAIL TO EVERYONE YOU KNOW.
MARK YOUR CALENDARS AND MAKE SEPTEMBER 22nd A DAY THAT THE CITIZENS

OF AUSTRALIA SAY "ENOUGH IS ENOUGH"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

A Currrent Affair were promoting the petrol boycott last night. Must mean they know it can't possibly do any damage otherwise they'd be sued...

Sued for what?

I'm going to buy a full tank of petrol on Thursday, just for those enviro-freaks.

Anybody who takes economic advice from a chain email needs their head examined.

I'm going to buy a full tank of petrol on Thursday, just for those enviro-freaks.

Anybody who takes economic advice from a chain email needs their head examined.


they aren't 'enviro-freaks' as you call them they are just car dependant people who are very selfish.

Enviro-freaks? What the hell? Us enviro-freaks get the bus.

One day we will look back and laugh at how we and the rest of the world was so dependant on oil. As technology advances, it will become a near useless commodity in the future.

According to TV news last night increased petrol prices have increased bus patronage in Brisbane by 12% (I didn't here over what period).

Can you imagine if PT patronage increases to around 40% as it was a few decades ago (10% now). It will be one hell of a time trying to build enough rail/tram/buses to cope I think. I suppose tram and bus could have the advantage of plenty of not so much used road to take over.

^ hey what about bread sales?? i have been going into Coles or service stations last few weeks and noticed the shelves always empty. i asked about if there is a bread strike and they said , no, just that people are on tight budgets now due to petrol prices and everyone is back taking sandwiches for work and school!

I am SOOOO glad I don't drive...

I saw some people who had evidently gambled with their fuel gauge and (narrowly) lost, pushing their car along. There's an slight upward incline on the section of the road and every time they stopped pushing, the car went backwards lol...

Those one day petrol boycott ideas are total load of crap. They aren't going to work. Here's an idea become less car dependant and take public transport where possible. I don't drive, I don't even have licence because I don't want to throw away $100 every week on a car that I don't need or want.

One day we will look back and laugh at how we and the rest of the world was so dependant on oil. As technology advances, it will become a near useless commodity in the future.

Err what will we make plastic from and what about the large number of medicines made from petroleum? Still, all the better that we shouldn't waste it on fuelling cars of course.

There's always the chance that a new process can become viable - there's probably some obscure method to produce hydrocarbons out there already, that doesn't involve crude oil.

^ even though fuel is getting pritty dear and it seems like its alot lesser excessable, I wouldnt think they wouldnt bring a too big of an alternate fuel source out because people would go bankrupt. Like, if they could make cars hover(yes think abit fantasy :)) then think about all the tire company's going out of bussiness because of this.

I think it would suprise many people if they actually new what the government(or who ever) really has to give out, that is some crazy technology or somthing like that.

I just wonder how far will they really go untill they need to turn somewhere els? It seems the most of the human race wait too long...

Cutting fuel excise won't fix anything. It's an artificial saving that will be absorbed and the fuel price will go back up within a few months.

...and with the government losing a significant amount of revenue.

The other falsehood is that the government should give back some of the excise revenue because increased fuel prices are increasing GST earnings on petrol. THe problem is though, the extra money spent on petrol means we spend less money on other items, thus reducing GST earnt.

I saw on Beyond Tomorrow an orbital engine that runs on Compressed Air - some guy in Melbourne invented it for use in forklifts. Anyone wanna take bets on how quickly the oil companies bury this one?

I just caught the end of that story. My question was, who compresses the air? What sort of energy is required for that process? Presumably more than the energy provided by the air.

I saw on Beyond Tomorrow an orbital engine that runs on Compressed Air - some guy in Melbourne invented it for use in forklifts. Anyone wanna take bets on how quickly the oil companies bury this one?

You need electricity to pump up the air pressure (air compressor with a motor). It can be done in a couple of minutes at a service station (if they have whatever equipment). Or you can plug it into standard 240 V power in your garage and have an onboard compressor do the job in about 4 hours.

Have you ever put air in your tyres at the local servo - I image they use one of those hoses to fill it up! It would be the compressed air being released into the engine that provides the movement - it looked very cool like a simple solution to a complex problem.

I know there was a guy, I think his name was Ralph Sarich, who invented the orbital engine (originally to run on petrol but a lot cheaper) I'm pretty sure Ford bought the rights to it and buried it, a real shame, he could never find an Australian investor to fund his idea - could've changed the face of motoring as we know it.

You need electricity to pump up the air pressure (air compressor with a motor). It can be done in a couple of minutes at a service station (if they have whatever equipment). Or you can plug it into standard 240 V power in your garage and have an onboard compressor do the job in about 4 hours.

So we still need to use energy to "fill up". The pollution is just not at the point of use - like using a light bulb or electric train.

But it may work out cheaper than petrol - i doubt it is any less "green" though.

How many times must they burie an awesome product that could save thousands? How many people are gunna suffer before somthing happens?

Like the heads of the companies really care to do somthing about it! As long as there current cashflow is still coming in, nothing with be done.

Have you ever put air in your tyres at the local servo - I image they use one of those hoses to fill it up! It would be the compressed air being released into the engine that provides the movement - it looked very cool like a simple solution to a complex problem.

Only if you want to go a few km. You need pressures FAR higher than the 80PSI you might get out of a servo's compressor to fill your tyres up to 30-40PSI.

I know there was a guy, I think his name was Ralph Sarich, who invented the orbital engine (originally to run on petrol but a lot cheaper) I'm pretty sure Ford bought the rights to it and buried it, a real shame, he could never find an Australian investor to fund his idea - could've changed the face of motoring as we know it.

There's a bunch of urban legends like that. I wouldn't put too much stock in it being anywhere near as groundbreaking as you'd think, if it happened at all.

As for the guy in Melbourne who "invented" the compressed air forklift things, it's hardly new, they've been around for some time, and some of the foreign models can reach road speeds (110km/h) and have useful (circa 200km) range per refueling.

Run it on off peak power (wire it up to your hot water system for example) and the electricity it requires wouldn't be that pricey. There's no environmental benefit since you're using coal and are adding lots of transmission and re-use losses but it's not entirely impossible for those rich enough to buy a brand new car to take advantage of the technology in a decade or so.

petrol up my way is now constantly $1.40 per litre.getting a joke.wont belong when it hits $1.50. whats it everywhere else?
Also i read an article recently saying how the rising price of petrol is changing lifestyles dramatically. The 4WD will be a thing of the past, they are now being sold cheap and no body wants them. The family holiday has been killed off.Young p platers havent the money to afford petrol let alone a car, so many would rather grab lifts with a friend or pub transport.
Sydney siders get the shits because the rising cost of petrol and traffic chaos has forced them to use public transport which is boarder line pathetic.
The future may not be so bright afterall?

pfft $1.5

Fuel per litre costs in:

Geneva, Switzerland: 3 Euros / $4.8
London, England: 1 pound / $2.7
Barcelona, Spain: 1 Euro / $1.6
Malaga, Spain: 80 Euro cents / $1.28
Netherlands: See Barcelona
Copenhagen: 5 Euros / $7.5

Don´t forget that European cities (other than London) have much less traffic than Sydney due to Electric trams, hydrogen powered buses, quicker metros that makes for exceptional public transport, and also bicycle & taxi lanes.

Shame our city planners still follow British & now American city models, had we followed Dutch or Swiss models we would have less pollution, and less traffic in the city and less fat people due to bicycle usage, not such a lucky country now is it!?

The thing is now, our way of thinking has changed. If we see petrol at a $1.20 per litre, we think cool its cheap, I'll fill up. 18 months ago $1.20 per litle was considered extraordinarily high. You wait and see, before long everyone will consider $1.40 per litre relatively cheap. We have been painfully, but surely, brainwashed.

Well yeah, but you can still feel it eating your pocket & lifestyle more & more.

My mates train to Sydney from the central coast these days, hence not coming as much, hence hurting our lifestyle. Me and my mates in Sydney can´t go to the city as much due to fuel costs (lifestyle cut in half), and the patheticness of public transport in general.

Friends of my cousins in the UK can´t afford to fly to Spain on a weekly basis to relax at the beach anymore due to a huge increase in ticket prices.

i think point is that petrol was relativley same price for years. i remember 80c per litre rings a bell,, then last it shot up from $1 to $1;30. overnight.
the point is is rising fast and no sign of stopping.
btw who gives a shit about os prices. we live in Australia.. lets talk about whats happening here. we have to pay for it.

Interest rate judgement day today. Hopefully the guy that I heard on the radio this morning, when he said due to high fuel cost, the rates won't go up, is correct.

btw who gives a shit about os prices. we live in Australia.. lets talk about whats happening here. we have to pay for it.

petrol up my way is now constantly $1.40 per litre.getting a joke.wont belong when it hits $1.50. whats it everywhere else?

..

i thought high fuel prices spark inflation? atleast why thats the US fed keeps increasing

Rates went up 25bp.

Cheers,

js

D:

gg

Imagine whats it like having a family,paying off a mortgage and having to drive around in sydney and wages DONT go up? lots of f.u.n.
john howards a dork.

$1.40? crapola sucks to be everywhere else i payed $1.24 this morning, go QLD :D

Imagine whats it like having a family,paying off a mortgage and having to drive around in sydney and wages DONT go up? lots of f.u.n.
john howards a dork.


1) John Howard, dispite his claims, has little to do with the month-to-month movement of interest rates. It's up the RBA.
2) The whole point of IR hikes are to stop people from taking out mortgages they can't afford, curtail spending, reduce disposable incomes, etc. Short term growth vs long run inflation (while being cautious against causing Stagflation like in the 70's oil shock)
3) Real wages have been climbing for years now, the average Australian is earning more than ever and has more assets than ever (and more debt than ever...).

If you can't afford a mortgage, don't freaking buy a house. With all of these "Would you like fries with your mortgage" places around, there's a lot of debt around that's in risk of default. People are being given loans who I believe shouldn't really be in debt. Interest rates WILL go up, oil (and thus the cost of living) WILL increase. Property, especially homes, IMO, are way overpriced and people may be defaulting on no-depost loans, finding the house is worth less than what they owe on the mortgage. Worst case scenario, it's the 1980's all over again, where the state banks of SA and Vic went bust.

BTW, guess which city has the cheapest fuel and will always have the cheapest fuel!!! Bris.. MUAHAHAHAHAHHAH!!!

And they expect us to pay for this bullshit? Trains are the new way everybody!

BTW, guess which city has the cheapest fuel and will always have the cheapest fuel!!! Bris.. MUAHAHAHAHAHHAH!!!

Relative to income?

Relative to income?


No... QLD fuel is 8.35cpl cheaper than other states.

This is due to GST being rebated to petrol companies to keep the price lower.

Prior to the GST this state law was introduced as the High Court deemed that states did not have the legal authority to tax items such as petrol and cigarettes. The feds took over and returned the money to the states.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^

And the rest of the states subsidise this Queensland. Its an absolute joke.

Yeah why does this happen?

coz queensland is gods gift to the earth, gotta keep´them happy!

^^ No, we're just smart :)

shows