The article was posted on their site before it was removed when it became clear what a mistake they had made. Here's a copy:

http://www.ehdtstudios.com/2010/11/too-asian-canada-macleansca.html

I'm one of those Asians taking an Asian program at an Asian school. Am I doing something I shouldn't be doing?

I just watched CTV tonight they do have a segment talking about UBC,well according to them,they received quite a bit of complains from Caucasian students says UBC too much Asians and its intimidated them cause Asian academic achievements.I really do not understand the issue here.I thought competition would help students to study harder otherwise,this is not ESL for god sake.

asians have a different study ethic to most - most want to balance it out

its almost impossible to get into UBC for instance without an incredibly high average - i think its something 99% now to get into UBC

What an astounding article!

I'm one of those white people studying at UofT. Should I be worried about my Asian competition?

Read the comments on the Globe before the article was taken down. Agree with the top comments which said more non-Asians should encourage their children to attend university. But I don't agree with Asian parents demanding absolute perfection from their kids. It's true that they will ask you where the extra 5% went if you get a 95% average.

My mom also asks me where that 5% went.. Doesn't mean I'm Asian.

However I get these grades without losing my social life... I'd just like to grab my friend Naomi and get her really drunk - she needs it.

asians have a different study ethic to most - most want to balance it out

its almost impossible to get into UBC for instance without an incredibly high average - i think its something 99% now to get into UBC

1. I used to think that stereotype was true, until I started TAing.

2. UBC admissions range from mid-70s to mid-90s depending on the program, as with most schools.

1. I used to think that stereotype was true, until I started TAing.

2. UBC admissions range from mid-70s to mid-90s depending on the program, as with most schools.

Indeed. I TAed calculus 2 years ago and the Asian kids would ride me incessantly for extra marks.

Just beware of the Yellows! :D

I think if the old stock "Canadian" students get resentful about the number of Asians in certain departments then tough luck to them and they need to get over it. I agree that young people should not be forced by overbearing parents to attend classes that are not suited to them. It is pointless studying a profession you do not have an aptitude for.

Meh, I think a lot of Caucasian males find University unappealing.

A lot of white guys are focusing on trade skills, construction, policing, firefighting and politics.

We like to work with our hands. The idea of working behind a desk after getting a degree does not sit well with me.

There's plenty of overachieving kids with no social lives who 'ride their TAs for marks' who aren't Chinese. While it's true that education is important for Chinese and that our parents on the average care a lot, there's plenty of other people out there with parents who care too. I have friends from every ethnic group and religion who have parents like that.

From my university days (at UofT) I also know a ton of people from all races who had no lives and studied every day, and also knew a lot of Chinese people who partied.

Yes there are subtle cultural differences of course, but is that so wrong?

I think it's unfair to single out a certain population and the whole thing smacks of racism. Sort of like how they used to be scared of the Jews back in the 40s and 50s taking over all the schools and professions.

My favorite are all those random people they quoted in the article who were scared of going to UofT because it was 'too asian'. Perhaps the article should be about these people and why they are so scared of people not like themselves?

Is it right or wrong ? - Hard to say, the best student should get in no matter of the race, gender, etc...


Is it true ? - Absolutely!

When I graduated from my CMA class for the region "Toronto North", there were 29 Asian out of a class of 32 students. Not that I complain about that, I was able to compete with my classmates anyway.

If a white find that it's hard to compete against Asian, the answer would be (as in anything in life) to try harder, not to give up or to settle for an easy option! :bash:

Anyway, once you're in workplace, you'll have to compete with Asian too for business or for top position so you better get used to it sooner than later.

My mom also asks me where that 5% went.. Doesn't mean I'm Asian.

However I get these grades without losing my social life... I'd just like to grab my friend Naomi and get her really drunk - she needs it.

Haha same! I know some friends who just need a night out, honestly! I somehow managed to get by pretty casually in high school while maintaining honours. You need that social life! Of course, I'm in a school of design now...but that's beside the point, I chose here! :lol:

My favorite are all those random people they quoted in the article who were scared of going to UofT because it was 'too asian'. Perhaps the article should be about these people and why they are so scared of people not like themselves?

Good call. I think we've got the concept of racism so framed into a stereotypical box, that we don't even realize it when we see it.

"Those orientals...they work like dogs...thats why they're taking over"

"Those orientals...they work like dogs...thats why they're taking over"

:lol: how topical of you

I don't see the point in university anyways.

Here's my good ol' motto "Ya don't NEEEDDD IT! Ya just WANTTTTT IT!"

I got a library, computer and a brain that's all I need to start my future corporation!

After all, Abraham didn't become a lawyer by sittin' on his ass in a university all day. NOPE! All he did was read books about Law that were thrown in dumpsters.

A great man, indeed.

They're the largest non-white ethnic group in the country so of course they're going to have a noticeable presence.

I think more concerning would be the lack of aboriginals in post-secondary institutions.

Here's my good ol' motto "Ya don't NEEEDDD IT! Ya just WANTTTTT IT!"

Employers WANTTTTT IT too. :|

After all, Abraham didn't become a lawyer by sittin' on his ass in a university all day. NOPE! All he did was read books about Law that were thrown in dumpsters.

Back in the era when laws were barely changed and doing that was possible. Today, you have to re-learn tax code annually or you're fucked.

2010 ≠ 1850


There was an era when high school was only attended by the smartest of academic people. (They were called collegiate institutes.) Those who weren't as academically inclined went to a technical school. Today, everyone goes to high school. If you want a job, having at least some secondary education is de-facto mandatory. Universities are currently in the role that high schools were in a century ago. In the future, university will be required for almost everyone to get almost any job that isn't paying near or at minimum wage. That is simply the way things go. As we progress, we gain more knowledge, and as we gain more knowledge, you require even more knowledge to stand out.

We used to end our education at 14. Then 18. Now 22. Soon we'll be ending it at 26. Because the education received in the shorter period of time simply isn't sufficient for what society wants to accomplish today. Situations like Bill Gates or Mark Zuckerberg are rare, and if you're expecting your life to turn out like theirs, you're being foolish. Both of them at least attempted post-secondary education before becoming wealthy.

I think more concerning would be the lack of aboriginals in post-secondary institutions

Many aboriginals just want to continue on with their traditional way of life. They do not see the virtue in western academics. And who are we (white, urban dwellers) to say that it's concerning? I'd we willing to bet they're the ones saying it's concerning that they are increasingly getting screwed over by a culture that is trying to make them convert into urban consumers like the majority of the country. Who says they want to be like us?

Many aboriginals just want to continue on with their traditional way of life. They do not see the virtue in western academics. And who are we (white, urban dwellers) to say that it's concerning? I'd we willing to bet they're the ones saying it's concerning that they are increasingly getting screwed over by a culture that is trying to make them convert into urban consumers like the majority of the country. Who says they want to be like us?

:|

They want more control over their education (or to have our education include more of their culture in it--probably irrelevant in Toronto but very relevant here where about a third of school age children are aboriginal. Their ways are fast becoming our ways.), not "no education". If they had the resources and opportunity they would probably start a university themselves. All universities here have strong aboriginal programmes, our university even has tri-lingual signs which include Ojibwe. Thunder Bay has the highest per capita university educated aboriginal population in the country. They still lag behind other ethnic groups.

We have to merge our cultures, not eliminate one or the other. Toronto has merged cultures quite well, and Thunder Bay shows that aboriginal people fit into the puzzle too. The real cause of the lack of success in primary and secondary education for a variety of reasons. They don't make it far enough for post-secondary education to be attainable. (Many come from communities without schools, and not by choice.)

This is a far more complex issue than anyone based in Toronto can understand. Even from sticking to just Thunder Bay, I have gaps in my understanding of aboriginals issues. It is a very broad and complex problem.

I see mostly East Asian and South Asian students, with a hint of Middle Eastern, but heck! It's a rarity that you find a Southeast Asian in a university!!! (I believe they go to colleges instead of universities)

I see mostly East Asian and South Asian students, with a hint of Middle Eastern, but heck! It's a rarity that you find a Southeast Asian in a university!!! (I believe they go to colleges instead of universities)

As if you can just "see" and distinguish a southeast asian at a glance.

its pretty easy to tell indians apart from chinese and filipinos are easy to pick out

Indians are south asian, filipinos are pacific islanders.

I would rarely have difficulty telling the difference at a glance between South Asian (from the Indian subcontinent) and East Asian (Chinese, Filipinos, etc..). Sometimes people from Pakistan can look a lot like Middle Eastern people.

I have seen Filipinos that look more like Native Canadians than some Native Canadians I've met. :lol:

Thunder Bay has quite a few Filipinos, like Winnipeg. Not entirely sure why, they just seemed to gravitate to this part of the country.

The Chinese have always been known as the " Jews of the Orient". The Chinese culture has always been very merit based where monetary attainment is the ultimate goal and quality of life far less so.
I don't like the term "Asian". Take for example the Chinese and Japanese. They couldn't be more dissimilar if they tried. Both culture put an emphasis on education and work but the similarity ends there.
The Japanese may make big bucks but showing it off is considered offensive. There is a greater mingeling of the classes and a real sense of social responsibility. Japan has a very extensive social welfare network. The gap between the rich and the poor is very small and it has one of the lowest GINI indexes in the world.
The Chinese couldn't be more different with the obscene class and economic stratafication. Even highly developed and wealthy Hong Kong os a stellar example of the large divisions in the Chinese culture. A wealthy city and right now is having a huge debate over bringing in a minimum wage. It would only be an abysmal $2.50 hour but goes against the sink or swim culture.
It is admiral that the Chinese culture emphasis academic achievement but it is the Chinese bent to show off their wealth that I think many, including myself, find rather distasteful. The big house, cars, clothes, jewelery, and the gold displayed where everyone can see it. 99% of the wealthy Chinese wouldn't be caught dead in Chinatown.
I think that is why I , and everyone in my family, far prefer both the Japanese and their culture. There is a lot to be said for humility.

^^The Chinese make up a 30% of Vancity's population, and 60% the university enrollment, so it's socially acceptable to dislike them or confess to staying away from UBC/SFU because of them... meanwhile everyone in this town loves the Japanese. In that context, I'm not surprised by such opinions.

I have to admit I am gobsmacked by some of the things I am reading. People actually proudly confess to staying away from Canadian Universities because of the large Chinese student population??!?! I find that sickening and most discouraging. Canada prides itself on its multiculturalism, and those youths are making a mockery of that.
I went to University in the 70's and 80's, and students from Hong Kong single handedly raised the standards of many Engineering, etc... faculties across Canada. Their advanced educational standards set the bar higher for their lazier Canadian counterparts to jump over.
How soon we forget, apparently. :ohno:

So it is the smart people's problem that they can get into university and the dumb cannot?

Instead of complaining about the success of Chinese-Canadians, why not emulate it?

Emulating things aboriginal people were doing 400 years ago allowed the first Europeans settlers to this country to survive. Maybe its time we European settlers take another lesson in how to thrive?

T it is the Chinese bent to show off their wealth that I think many, including myself, find rather distasteful. The big house, cars, clothes, jewelery, and the gold displayed where everyone can see it. .

I'm Chinese but unfortunately i don't have all these stuffs. If I'm as wealthy as those Chinese you've mentioned (and you seem to assume all Chinese are filthy rich) I'd have a nice house, nice cars and rolax watch, just like those wealthy white folks have in White Rock and West Vancouver.! :D

^^ Yes, it's too bad I don't have any money to show off. I can't live up to his stereotype unfortunately. :(

Rather than Maclean's silly attempt at focusing on "asian" students at university, wouldn't it make more sense to consider the academic success of immigrants/the children of immigrants?

I also find it amusing that the article attempts to validate the success of asian students by commenting on the influence of Confucianism. Is it really that different from the Protestant work ethic?

Let's make a deal. We won't complain about them if that decide to join our culture!

I don't mind them keeping there food or music but I mind joining the "Canuck Band."

AKA:

Hockey, beer, Nationalist Patriotism, winter, SPEAKING OUR LANGAUGE(S)!

BTW vid, I hear most of those comments from full-grown adults that are 30-50 yrs old.

"THE YOUTH FOUNDED CANADIAN MULTICULTURAL AND SHALL DESTROY IT!" Is what you sound like.

Rather than Maclean's silly attempt at focusing on "asian" students at university, wouldn't it make more sense to consider the academic success of immigrants/the children of immigrants?


Let's face it; I think it is a silly mag. Getting more sensationalist and "sky is falling" every day. Wonder who reads it?

Let's make a deal. We won't complain about them if that decide to join our culture!

AKA:
Hockey, beer, Nationalist Patriotism, winter, SPEAKING OUR LANGAUGE(S)!


Wake up kid! the second generation of asians can speak and write better english or even french than you. If you ever played hocky, you should have seen tons of asian kids are at different levels of hockey programs. And about winter, have you lived iin Regina before?
Btw, I don't think you are old enough to drink anything! :cheers:

^^The Chinese make up a 30% of Vancity's population, and 60% the university enrollment, so it's socially acceptable to dislike them or confess to staying away from UBC/SFU because of them... meanwhile everyone in this town loves the Japanese. In that context, I'm not surprised by such opinions.

Who the hell said I don't like the Chinese, not me.
If they have better grades and work hard to get into the program of their choice them more power to them although I do not approve of all these international students regardless of their ethnicity managing to get into our schools when Canadian kids with decent grades are being turned away.
As far as me not going to a school with an overwhelming number of Asians I think is ridiculous. I couldn't care less if I was the only white guy in the class and people who do are insecure.
I do think a lot of the Chinese kids do miss out in universities by focusing too much on just grades. Universities are also an experience not just a job preparer. Universities should not only be places to learn but also to think.
That is one of the reasons why the Chinese go primarily into the maths and hard science area and not the arts and social sciences. The Chinese are more likely to go into business than economics as economics is a social science.
This is why the Chinese are over represented in the business, banking, and real estate sectors and under represented in government and education.
Except for missing out on much of the university experience a bad thing? Of course not.
It's the Chinese CULTURE that reinforces the idea that you not only should make good money but that you make sure everyone knows it that many find distasteful. Like i said there is a lot to be said for humility.

Wake up kid! the second generation of asians can speak and write better english or even french than you. If you ever played hocky, you should have seen tons of asian kids are at different levels of hockey programs. And about winter, have you lived iin Regina before?
Btw, I don't think you are old enough to drink anything! :cheers:

Hmmmmm.... Vancouver is very different from my city then.

Also, you can never be too young to drink!

9000 years of beer in the human body makes beer a natural substance! >:-]

I shall drink up on the holidays! :cheers:

Let's make a deal. We won't complain about them if that decide to join our culture!

I don't mind them keeping there food or music but I mind joining the "Canuck Band."

AKA:

Hockey, beer, Nationalist Patriotism, winter, SPEAKING OUR LANGAUGE(S)!

BTW vid, I hear most of those comments from full-grown adults that are 30-50 yrs old.

"THE YOUTH FOUNDED CANADIAN MULTICULTURAL AND SHALL DESTROY IT!" Is what you sound like.

You have no idea what you are talking about. :|

You have no idea what you are talking about. :|

No. Sorry, I don't! :lol: Just bored outta my mind.

Meh, I think a lot of Caucasian males find University unappealing.

A lot of white guys are focusing on trade skills, construction, policing, firefighting and politics.

We like to work with our hands. The idea of working behind a desk after getting a degree does not sit well with me.

That's stereotyping again, there are tons of white professionals everywhere and they do love what they are doing.

Atleast I see lots in public accounting.

I'm one of those Asians taking an Asian program at an Asian school. Am I doing something I shouldn't be doing?

That's a fair and revealing question. There's nothing wrong with being an Asian student taking math or science at UBC/U of T/SFU.

I do however think that there are some issues with the Canadian university system. An undergrad degree is becoming a baseline requirement in the workforce and yet we do not have universal access to education, and it's getting worse because of rising tuition and living costs.

In many ways Canada is sliding backward and even our primary educational system is in decline. This hurts some people more than it hurts others.

Another related issue is the way competition is handled in some Canadian universities. It's unfair to have a kind of arms race where an average student in a class must spend 5 hours a night studying or take 3 courses a term or audit courses in order to progress. Many people just can't afford that.

The point of university should be to educate but in reality we are using it as a kind of social sorting process. This is unfair and a huge waste.

I do however think that there are some issues with the Canadian university system. An undergrad degree is becoming a baseline requirement in the workforce and yet we do not have universal access to education, and it's getting worse because of rising tuition and living costs.

In many ways Canada is sliding backward and even our primary educational system is in decline. This hurts some people more than it hurts others.
It's true that a bachelor's degree is becoming a requirement. But that's inevitable. If the government was more serious in closing this gap, it would improve standards in lower levels of schooling. Frankly, Canadian school standards are a joke even compared to Europe. I know this from first hand experience. If the government makes schools harder, some parents will complain about their kids not having enough fun, but that's too bad. Our public schools (especially the elementary schools) will have to be places where kids are rewarded for working smarter. That isn't the case now.

Another related issue is the way competition is handled in some Canadian universities. It's unfair to have a kind of arms race where an average student in a class must spend 5 hours a night studying or take 3 courses a term or audit courses in order to progress. Many people just can't afford that.

The point of university should be to educate but in reality we are using it as a kind of social sorting process. This is unfair and a huge waste.This is sour grapes. Everyone has the equal chance to have a good work ethic and progress, and if they won't do so then it's their fault. We can't afford to dumb down our education system unless we want our economy to be based around chasing lower wages.

I know from first hand experience that being a stereotypical Asian kid in Canada is heaven compared to being an average kid in China. How many non-Asian Canadian kids are willing to study 6.5 days a week, with three weeks vacation per year, spending about 12 hours per day in school (not counting extra classes parents may arrange)? Not many.

But the top universities not only think about marks, but also extra-curriculars. So these are not necessarily the study a-holics with no life being given the ticket to a decent tertiary education.

I didn't study that hard in high school, and in university either. Most of my time was spent sleeping, gambling, and on SSC. Yet I fared fine and got to graduate school easily. I think people seem to perceive it's all study and no play for these high achievers.

But the top universities not only think about marks, but also extra-curriculars. So these are not necessarily the study a-holics with no life being given the ticket to a decent tertiary education.

I didn't study that hard in high school, and in university either. Most of my time was spent sleeping, gambling, and on SSC. Yet I fared fine and got to graduate school easily. I think people seem to perceive it's all study and no play for these high achievers.

I can tell by looking at your post count.:)

“At graduation a Canadian—i.e. ‘white’—mother told me that I’m the reason her son didn’t get a space in university and that all the immigrants in the country are taking up university spots,” says Frankie Mao, a 22-year-old arts student at the University of British Columbia.



As if that happened.

I don't know how it is in other universities, but in my school's business program the student population is predominantly white.

This might offend some, but I had a professor who became a personal friend, mentor if you will, and he told me one night while having a beer that many Asian students become discouraged once they graduate from a business program as unless you're going into accounting or backroom number crunching, most employers seek 'well rounded' students. That means the human computers from East Asia with the personality and charisma of a teacup are outright rejected. This might be a good explanation why the higher you climb in any companies, the less Chinese workers there are. Of course there's exceptions, but it's the general rule of thumb.

If they have better grades and work hard to get into the program of their choice them more power to them although I do not approve of all these international students regardless of their ethnicity managing to get into our schools when Canadian kids with decent grades are being turned away.

Completely straw man argument? International students pay vastly higher school fees than Canadians do, and as such are a money making venture for universities. They hardly 'cost' Canadian students anything.

That is unless you are referring to non-white Canadian citizens as 'international students' and are differentiating them from 'Canadian kids'.

I do think a lot of the Chinese kids do miss out in universities by focusing too much on just grades. Universities are also an experience not just a job preparer. Universities should not only be places to learn but also to think.

I'm not sure what your race is, or who you hang out with, but it doesn't really matter. Chinese students like other students hang out and have fun too. Maybe they go to different places, and party at different places but I can pretty much assure you that this mythical vast number of Chinese university students that only study and never play doesn't really exist more than similar percentages of other groups students who are high achievers.

That is one of the reasons why the Chinese go primarily into the maths and hard science area and not the arts and social sciences. The Chinese are more likely to go into business than economics as economics is a social science.
This is why the Chinese are over represented in the business, banking, and real estate sectors and under represented in government and education.
Except for missing out on much of the university experience a bad thing? Of course not.

I always thought it was because their English language skills were not as good. It's hard to take essay courses at top universities if you aren't a native speaker unless you're extremely smart.

That said, plenty of Chinese heritage Canadians who were born here or have been here for a very long time take social studies, education, and law. These percentages are probably closer to the actual Chinese population in Canada (aka 3%) rather than the overrepresentation in the other fields.

If Chinese people didn't actually care about social studies and so on, then Universities in China would only offer Engineering/accounting/science which is obviously not the case.

It's the Chinese CULTURE that reinforces the idea that you not only should make good money but that you make sure everyone knows it that many find distasteful. Like i said there is a lot to be said for humility.

I thought this was the American culture?

I don't know how it is in other universities, but in my school's business program the student population is predominantly white.

This might offend some, but I had a professor who became a personal friend, mentor if you will, and he told me one night while having a beer that many Asian students become discouraged once they graduate from a business program as unless you're going into accounting or backroom number crunching, most employers seek 'well rounded' students. That means the human computers from East Asia with the personality and charisma of a teacup are outright rejected. This might be a good explanation why the higher you climb in any companies, the less Chinese workers there are. Of course there's exceptions, but it's the general rule of thumb.

well I think this rule of thumb may have to change soon since a lots of companies here in Canada are doing business with China so bi lingual always a plus here in Vancouver.(Its maybe different from the East Coast I support).

I don't know how it is in other universities, but in my school's business program the student population is predominantly white.

This might offend some, but I had a professor who became a personal friend, mentor if you will, and he told me one night while having a beer that many Asian students become discouraged once they graduate from a business program as unless you're going into accounting or backroom number crunching, most employers seek 'well rounded' students. That means the human computers from East Asia with the personality and charisma of a teacup are outright rejected. This might be a good explanation why the higher you climb in any companies, the less Chinese workers there are. Of course there's exceptions, but it's the general rule of thumb.

I thought it was because most of those in power in Canada are white people. And people in power generally like to pass power to people like themselves.

Personally I think that with every post you make on this thread you show your true colours more and more Filip.

I thought it was because most of those in power in Canada are white people. And people in power generally like to pass power to people like themselves.

Personally I think that with every post you make on this thread you show your true colours more and more Filip.

Ya, its the mean white people supressing the advancement of the poor, helpless minorities.

I thought it was because most of those in power in Canada are white people. And people in power generally like to pass power to people like themselves.

Personally I think that with every post you make on this thread you show your true colours more and more Filip.
No, it's because in the business sector your interpersonal skills are worth just as much if not more than your actual knowledge.

I'm not sure which industry you work in, but that's just how it is.

There's always more to it than just "racism" or "those kids are too nerdy for their own good". Chinese culture does indeed promote a better work ethic, with less emphasis on social skills and having fun, but the difference isn't as exaggerated as some may think. And indeed, while many employers won't discriminate purely from race, it is much easier for someone who shares the same culture to be taken under the wing of a senior mentor, or join the "old boys club". I think overtime many Chinese will have to adapt to the reality that life isn't purely a meritocracy, or rather their standards for merit may not be as complete as they think.

Ya, its the mean white people supressing the advancement of the poor, helpless minorities.

It has nothing to do with that. It's the same reason why in France the top people are French. In Japan the top people are Japanese and so on. We're a bit better in North America, but by large the people with the top jobs are white.

I think as we're sitting from a difference place, we can easily see why it's a bad idea for other places to only hire people who are 'local' for jobs instead of the 'best' applicants as different applicants bring different experiences, and also may actually be better qualified to do a job. I.e. it would be easy for us to say that it's a mistake for Japanese companies to only hire Japanese in the top executive positions, especially because so many are global corporations.

Unfortunately while it's slightly better in Canada, we still have the old trap of 'Canadian experience' as a catch-all term which basically means, unless you act, speak and ARE more or less exactly like the people who have been in Canada for generations, you aren't qualified. Considering that the actual population of the country and of cities does not reflect this (~50% of Toronto is made up of first generation immigrants for instance), businesses are doing themselves a disservice by not hiring more outside people, and hiring based more on qualifications rather than on some vague ideal of 'social skills' as based on how many clubs you joined in university or something.

Attitudes like Filip's only shows how such discriminatory ideals are spread and are easily adopted by the masses, especially those who would have much to lose if the playing field were different. I think if we replaced the ethnic group of 'Chinese' with any other group, and then used that groups overriding stereotype people would be outraged, but I guess it's okay to stereotype Chinese people because everyone's scared China will take over the world someday.

It has nothing to do with that. It's the same reason why in France the top people are French. In Japan the top people are Japanese and so on. We're a bit better in North America, but by large the people with the top jobs are white.

I think as we're sitting from a difference place, we can easily see why it's a bad idea for other places to only hire people who are 'local' for jobs instead of the 'best' applicants as different applicants bring different experiences, and also may actually be better qualified to do a job. Unfortunately while it's slightly better in Canada, we still have the old trap of 'Canadian experience' as a catch-all term which basically means, unless you act, speak and are more or less exactly like the people who have been in Canada for generations, you aren't qualified. Especially considering that the actual population of the country and of cities does not reflect this, businesses are doing themselves a disservice by not hiring more outside people.

Attitudes like Filip's only shows how such discriminatory ideals are spread and are easily adopted by the masses, especially those who would have much to lose if the playing field were different.

How exactly would they be different? As I've mentioned above, your interpersonal skills are paramount for your success in many fields of business and other careers.

The playing fields will never be different unless other cultures adopt what are Canadian values for success. Work ethics and intelligence are highly valued, but so are your people skills. Unless these are taught from a young age they'll never be acquired as it is something you have to grow up with. My parents have spent their entire life with strong work ethics and zero personality.. However my mother is a scientist so she never needed this, but she made sure I was 'socialized' from a young age to learn this important lesson.

There's always more to it than just "racism" or "those kids are too nerdy for their own good". Chinese culture does indeed promote a better work ethic, with less emphasis on social skills and having fun, but the difference isn't as exaggerated as some may think. And indeed, while many employers won't discriminate purely from race, it is much easier for someone who shares the same culture to be taken under the wing of a senior mentor, or join the "old boys club". I think overtime many Chinese will have to adapt to the reality that life isn't purely a meritocracy, or rather their standards for merit may not be as complete as they think.

I see much truth in that passing of power mentality. That's why the Ivy League schools have access to so much more coveted New York jobs - because their top brains are now working there as management, and they're far more comfortable hiring from within their ranks.

The best people don't necessarily get the best job in the real world. We see plenty of immigrants with very good credentials driving taxis because their piece of paper is not our piece of paper.

How exactly would they be different? As I've mentioned above, your interpersonal skills are paramount for your success in many fields of business and other careers.

The playing fields will never be different unless other cultures adopt what are Canadian values for success. Work ethics and intelligence are highly valued, but so are your people skills. Unless these are taught from a young age they'll never be acquired as it is something you have to grow up with. My parents have spent their entire life with strong work ethics and zero personality.. However my mother is a scientist so she never needed this, but she made sure I was 'socialized' from a young age to learn this important lesson.
There are cultural differences in the way the Western and Eastern societies socialize. Saying that all Asians are socially inferior is stereotyping. What Caucasians talk about and the way they talk about it can be different from Asians. This is from my personal observations of my primarily Caucasian workplace compared to when I am with my Asian acquaintances.

This is sour grapes. Everyone has the equal chance to have a good work ethic and progress, and if they won't do so then it's their fault. We can't afford to dumb down our education system unless we want our economy to be based around chasing lower wages.

This is false. Some students have advantages that other students don't have. For example, some parents pay for the post secondary education of their children. Other students must pay for their own education. Some people go to good schools, some go to bad schools, etc. It's not a level playing field.

I know from first hand experience that being a stereotypical Asian kid in Canada is heaven compared to being an average kid in China. How many non-Asian Canadian kids are willing to study 6.5 days a week, with three weeks vacation per year, spending about 12 hours per day in school (not counting extra classes parents may arrange)? Not many.

So what?

This is false. Some students have advantages that other students don't have. For example, some parents pay for the post secondary education of their children. Other students must pay for their own education. Some people go to good schools, some go to bad schools, etc. It's not a level playing field.
So is the solution to dumb down the admission standards or restrict a certain group of people based on their skin colour?

So what?
Those people will be competition for Canadian workers 5 years from now, perhaps?

Canada.

Canadian.

Canasian.

Chanadese.

Meh. Who cares. There just people coming to study abord. I'm sure the japanese are pissed off there gettin' a flux of americans for studying. I'm sure they'll have a article saying: Tokyo Daily: Japanese Campuses "Too White," don't ya think?

Canada.

Canadian.

Canasian.

Chanadese.

Meh. Who cares. There just people coming to study abord. I'm sure the japanese are pissed off there gettin' a flux of americans for studying. I'm sure they'll have a article saying: Tokyo Daily: Japanese Campuses "Too White," don't ya think?

You really have no idea what you're talking about do you? The article isn't about international students. It's about Chinese Canadians, who by definition are NOT international students.

You really have no idea what you're talking about do you? The article isn't about international students. It's about Chinese Canadians, who by definition are NOT international students.

I know what I'm talking about. I was refering to the title and bitchin'. Chill.

So is the solution to dumb down the admission standards or restrict a certain group of people based on their skin colour?

No. I stated earlier that there are issues relating to access to education and the quality of education provided. Part of the issue is that the public schools are terrible and part of it is that postsecondary education is getting more expensive. I can understand people complaining about these things. I think it's wrong to single out Asian students, but some groups are more advantaged than others. This is why there are relatively few natives in Canadian universities, for example.

Those people will be competition for Canadian workers 5 years from now, perhaps?

I guess, although it's not really clear that 80 hours of studying a week is optimal even in terms of producing the most competent students, let alone happy, well-adjusted people.

Asian countries are nowhere near the top in terms of productivity per hour worked or even total productivity.

How exactly would they be different? As I've mentioned above, your interpersonal skills are paramount for your success in many fields of business and other careers.

The playing fields will never be different unless other cultures adopt what are Canadian values for success. Work ethics and intelligence are highly valued, but so are your people skills. Unless these are taught from a young age they'll never be acquired as it is something you have to grow up with. My parents have spent their entire life with strong work ethics and zero personality.. However my mother is a scientist so she never needed this, but she made sure I was 'socialized' from a young age to learn this important lesson.

Yes, interpersonal skills are important, and more important in some jobs more than others, but what exactly is your point?

If your point is that Chinese people have no interpersonal skills and thus cannot succeed in business, then I wonder why there are so many successful Chinese businessmen out there in the entire world.

Basically from what I gather, you're saying that the majority of Chinese Canadians study non-stop, try to game TAs for more grades, never go out at all, and are unable to hold almost any job (aside from your mother's scientist job) because they lack basic communication skills.

Somehow this is supposed to be 'common sense' and not blatantly discriminatory.

I hate to see this thread close anytime soon so please stay close to the general topic instead of evolving personal discussion.Thanks.(I can see TB is watching right now lol)

Yes, interpersonal skills are important, and more important in some jobs more than others, but what exactly is your point?

If your point is that Chinese people have no interpersonal skills and thus cannot succeed in business, then I wonder why there are so many successful Chinese businessmen out there in the entire world.

Basically from what I gather, you're saying that the majority of Chinese Canadians study non-stop, try to game TAs for more grades, never go out at all, and are unable to hold almost any job (aside from your mother's scientist job) because they lack basic communication skills.

Somehow this is supposed to be 'common sense' and not blatantly discriminatory.
Well there are successful Chinese businessmen in China.. I'm not sure about the rest of the world....

As for discrimination.. It was state above indirectly that whites are maybe just too stupid to go to university.. I beg to differ.. Otherwise we wouldn't be running every aspect of Canada.

Well there are successful Chinese businessmen in China.. I'm not sure about the rest of the world....



How about Royal Bank of Canada's Janice Fukakusa, Chief Administrative Officer and Chief Financial Officer.

http://www.ryerson.ca/news/news/images/20100721_fukakusa.jpg

Pretty sure she's Japanese...

^ Read the edit remarks.

As for discrimination.. It was state above indirectly that whites are maybe just too stupid to go to university.. I beg to differ.. Otherwise we wouldn't be running every aspect of Canada.

In high-school/university, it was always the white kids raising their hands and giving the wrong answer. They're stupid, but because they put themselves out there, they have a relationship with the teachers, and gain many favors as a result.

I think the same applies to the workplace or in government. Pretty much every bone-headed empty can up in the old boys club, who prevent the company or jurisdiction from progress... is white. Minorities who do manage to get into such privileged positions often far out-class their counterparts. The few Asian or South Asian mayors that have governed in Canada and the US are almost all regarded as among the best those cities or towns ever had.

In high-school/university, it was always the white kids raising their hands and giving the wrong answer. They're stupid, but because they put themselves out there, they have a relationship with the teachers, and gain many favors as a result.

I think the same applies to the workplace or in government. Pretty much every bone-headed empty can up in the old boys club, who prevent the company or jurisdiction from progress... is white. Minorities who do manage to get into such privileged positions often far out-class their counterparts. The few Asian or South Asian mayors that have governed in Canada and the US are almost all regarded as among the best those cities or towns ever had.

I never put up my hand unless i know the right answer. That's exactly the thing btw, you're supposed to get out there and make an effort even against all odds.. It shows determination and extroversion, both important in many fields and many executive positions.

Some Asian students may be smarter (I put some as I'm currently doing better than any Asian in my program) but there are many many other dimensions in rating the qualifications of an employee for a job.

Far out-class their white counterparts? LOL! Ya right... I call bullshit on that.. Do you seriously think Chinese people are inherently smarter than whites? Read up on some of the world's most influential and intelligent people, scientists who have made a change, inventing and discovering things that are omnipresent in every walk of life: Nikola Tesla, Albert Einstein, etc... What are they? WHITE.

What is this, now? A racial flame war? I think it might be Eh? Mates.

Canada is a delicate ethnical powder keg.

This is all gonna blow up in our childrens' faces one day.

It would have been much better if everyone just stayed home and let native people live in peace.

Far out-class their white counterparts? LOL! Ya right... I call bullshit on that.. Do you seriously think Chinese people are inherently smarter than whites? Read up on some of the world's most influential and intelligent people, scientists who have made a change, inventing and discovering things that are omnipresent in every walk of life: Nikola Tesla, Albert Einstein, etc... What are they? WHITE.

Jewish, to be precise. 25% of all scientific discoveries are done by that 0.2% of the world population. Studies also put their average IQ at the top, followed by Asians, then Whites, then... let's not go further.

Anyway that's moot, because my point isn't that whites are stupid, but that many can get away with stupidity, or be placed into jobs/responsibilities that they don't deserve, due to better social skills. That's why we have so many idiots "running every aspect of Canada" as you put it.

Judaism is a religion not a race or ethnicity.. Israeli is an ethnicity.

Einstein was white, as far as I'm aware... And studies showing average IQ are incredibly biased and badly done. There are numerous criticisms about them, ex: years ago there was a study done that put Serbs at the top of IQ levels in Europe.. A few months later, another one put them near the bottom. There are NO QUANTIFIABLE MARKERS for IQ.. Those tests are incredibly flawed.

Stupid people don't get away with anything.. At least in Canada, you screw up, you get fired; whether you're White, Asian, or Klingon. I think you're confusing making bad decisions with being stupid.. Which can be done by anyone from any race.

People who rely on IQ score averages as proof of average "racial intelligence" are deeply confused on how IQ tests are created, their limitations, and the demographics of the people who write them.

Anyway, it's fascinating watching how quickly this thread is degenerating, with more asinine posts one after the other.

Jewish, to be precise.

Tesla's parents were Serbian Christians.

Your racist ranting is really not flattering.

Jewish, to be precise. 25% of all scientific discoveries are done by that 0.2% of the world population.

Makes you wonder why everyone hates the Jews so much...

Stupid people don't get away with anything...

Interesting thing to say, in an era of Rob Fords, Sarah Palins, George Bush's, Blake Federick's...

Interesting thing to say, in an era of Rob Ford, Sarah Palin, George Bush, Blake Federick...
Politics are a different beast altogether, although each of these people have their strong points.

It takes politicking to move up the corporate ladder. It takes politicking to get onto a professor's good side. If you thought we are a pure meritocracy, you're naive. A 2009 study, involving 6000 mock resumes sent to Toronto employers, shows that applicants with English-sounding last names got called back 40% more often. That's pretty black-and-white.

Fyi, Blake Federick isn't a politician... he's an idiot who, through his awesome people skills as a white dude lol, became the president of UBC's Alma Mater Society, who launched a human-rights complaint to the UN - yes, the United Nations - over tuition fees.

Makes you wonder why everyone hates the Jews so much...

Jealousy, no doubt. They're one of the most successful groups of people but also one of the most discriminated against, which says a lot for their determination. My city's best mayor was Jewish. He was a successful businessman and captivating civic leader. With few exceptions, most of our Christian mayors of British descent were flops. We had a Syrian Christian mayor in the 80s, he was like Rob Ford but is, in retrospect, widely admired. An Italian mayor in the 1930s and 40s was re-elected more times than any other mayor in the region's history.

I think many white people are too laissez-faire. They take success sort of for granted. They don't work hard enough to achieve things and now they're falling behind, because for so long they didn't have to compete with other ethnic groups. Now that the playing field is more level and everyone's talents are on the table, white people have to work harder to survive because of all the competition. Which is a good thing, because that competition brings innovation and new ideas.

It won't be as much of a problem in the future when we're all sexually attractive, mixed-race people. :)

What is this, now? A racial flame war? I think it might be Eh? Mates.

More or less Filip just showing his true colours. After all these years of seeing him on these forums, I realize just what kind of person he really is.

Your racist ranting is really not flattering.
This thread is full of bullsh!t about Asians and so of course the Asian is called out as the racist...

And on that happy note, ladies and gentlemen.......and children..... :toilet: