Oh.

Recommendations
1) To note that the current proposal to relocate the Library Theatre Company in the Theatre Royal no longer offers a viable and sustainable proposition and officers support the view that alternative development proposals should be identified for this historic site.
2) That approval is given to the principle of developing a new cultural facility at First Street to provide a new home for the Library Theatre Company and Cornerhouse.
http://www.manchester.gov.uk/egov_downloads/FirstStreetCulturalFacility.pdf
http://www.manchester.gov.uk/meetings/meeting/1256/executive

^^ Leave the Cornerhouse alone!!!

2) That approval is given to the principle of developing a new cultural facility at First Street to provide a new home for the Library Theatre Company and Cornerhouse.

Something to do with this at a guess, from @MikeAmesbury on twitter (don't know how to do a direct link to the tweet)...

Big announcement for the Manchester Cultural Economy tomorrow, if approved will mean jobs,jobs,jobs!

^^ Leave the Cornerhouse alone!!!

It won't be forgotten.

A Cornerhouse operation with four or five cinemas and significant gallery space for contemporary art, which is a gap in the City's cultural offer, would undoubtedly offer a much needed addition to the city’s cultural infrastructure. However, it may be that the current economic climate and the resulting need to find innovative new partnerships that can minimise dependency on public funds, indicates that bringing the Library Theatre Company, an expanded Cornerhouse on the First Street site could add even more value. Officers have, therefore undertaken a detailed review of the viability, both in capital and revenue terms, of a combined operation to deliver a significant new contemporary arts facility.

The site of the existing Cornerhouse presents an exciting opportunity for redevelopment alongside the adjacent land and buildings owned by Network Rail. It is proposed that officers engage with Network Rail to develop a master plan for the wider site, which builds on the opportunities presented by the electrification of the Manchester/Liverpool rail line. A development partner would then be selected through competition in order to secure the best regeneration and financial outputs.

Excellent find CDX. Another exclusive!! It's an interesting read.

Basically problems are arising with Theatre Royal site faster than the plans for the Library Theatre Company (LTC) and hotel are progressing. It's evident that there's no way it's going to be finished in time for the LTC and they're predicted to end up homeless for 5 years, which is likely to be the end of them.

The problems fitting both the hotel and the LTC into the building (even if either one was taking it on their own) along with the constraints of a listed building means it's not feasible for either. As a result both hotel and theater have chosen to go with the flexibility of a new build. Although the hotel is barely mentioned in the report wasn't a post elsewhere on SSC already suggesting First Street? So potentially two new builds at First Street.

Then there's the Cornerhouse. Now fully expanded into its available shell (and next door's) and still not satisfied, it is to combine with the LTC in the new build to become a 4-5 screen cinema and theater, with a bit of retail, outside performance space and a lobby you'd want to linger in.

They'd looked into redeveloping the corner house site but the footprint is still not suitable. They believe they are a destination venue and therefore a wander down a quiet Whitworth Street West will not detract customers. The current buildings would be designed into a masterplan for the area (involving network rail) with clear intentions to redevelop them.

But what about the fact the corner house (bar and cinema) is integral to one of the best vistas in the city? The Oxford Road/Whitworth Street junction is surely one of Manchester most prized streetscapes and the corner house buildings play a significant part in that.

What about the bar? Unless I've read it wrong it's not just the cinema but the bar which will be moving. Unlike the cinema the busy bar will benefit from passing trade that it won't get on first street. Worse still the new passing trade will be staggering by way of Deansgate Locks.

Surely a beer while looking at Palace Hotel and St James' Building is infinitely more pleasurable views over the fake hacienda obscured by a fine viaduct will ever be. To the south end of First Street the other council reports are already hinting that a supermarket will be the best thing that could possibly happen to the area.

It generally sounds good by why not just move the cinema and keep the bar as is. A big plus is it pretty much has funding already. And what for the Theatre Royal? Is it to remaing the meeting place for the drunken AU forever?

Get it built! :banana:

Working with the developer ASK and their architects together with The Arts Team at RHWL (theatre specialists who have worked on the Theatre Royal and also designed the Bridgewater Hall) to create an initial functional model and outline design concept;

Work with architects retained by Ask has indicated the potential for a stunning building on the corner of the northern part of the site close to the railway arches. It would incorporate up to five cinemas, a major floor of contemporary gallery spaces, a 500 seat theatre and smaller studio space, an impressive café/open foyer space and all the associated technical back of house spaces. Initial broad based design proposals have been put together for costings purposes only. The guide for the capital budget for the building is that the exterior should be high quality and innovative but that the internal spaces should be functional and simply expressed without unnecessary degree of high level specifications. The building would be around 4,500, sq m and take advantage of the sloped incline to the site to create an exciting outdoor performance space linked to an independent and robust retail offer.
Creating an under one roof ‘art factory’ will provide a unique opportunity in the UK to develop creative practice across and within the wide range of artforms it covers. Commissioning new work in the new arts centre will bring together visual artists with theatre practitioners, filmmakers with musicians and dramatists, writers with visual artists etc. Cornerhouse brings high level expertise and a track record in digital content production and distribution that would play a crucial role in such new relationships with artists and also in audience engagement. This project creates an opportunity to create a centre of excellence for the creation and distribution of audience focused digital content for the visual and performing arts. This will play well into Arts Council England’s new priorities and establish Manchester as a leading producer of cross platform, cross artform digital work and as a place that develops artists, producers and technicians capable of working with emerging practice. The affect on the wider arts ecology in Manchester would be substantial, providing career pathways for new talent at all levels.

Oh.


http://www.manchester.gov.uk/egov_downloads/FirstStreetCulturalFacility.pdf
http://www.manchester.gov.uk/meetings/meeting/1256/executive

Sorry for the bad language, but fuck off. There's no way the Cornerhouse can move to new premises and still be the Cornerhouse. It doesn't work. Its like knocking down the Cornerhouse and saying, yeah, we're building an odeon on first street, but its just going to play independent films and its sort of going to be linked with the Cornerhouse. There's no way I want to ever go down to first street anyway. The area is shit. Its all going to be badly designed modern brick buildings with no character. I don't give a toss about the library theatre company or a 50 storey building, but first street is will just be an average looking retail park. Fact. Wank.

Why do people fear change?

I'm sure once the new purpose built building is finished, it will be a vast improvment on the facilities currently offered at the Corner House.(ask the staff and pupils at Chets)

I have no doubt the Corner House will remain an alternative venue in the future. It certainly won't end up as another Tesco's, thats for sure.

Why do people fear change?

They don't, they fear the mediocrity that they know is coming. Not all change is good.


I have no doubt the Corner House will remain an alternative venue in the future. It certainly won't end up as another Tesco's, thats for sure.

According to the report the present Cornerhouse site will be redeveloped, almost certainly a modern mediocre building fundamentally destroying the appearance of the junction. And no I wouldn't put it past the council to approve a Tesco Metro or something.

They don't, they fear the mediocrity that they know is coming. Not all change is good.




According to the report the present Cornerhouse site will be redeveloped, almost certainly a modern mediocre building fundamentally destroying the appearance of the junction. And no I wouldn't put it past the council to approve a Tesco Metro or something.

Your just guessing. You don't really know.(then again neither do I)

..

First Urbis, then Cornerhouse. Need I say more.
There is more to this I swear than meets the eye.

First Urbis, then Cornerhouse. Need I say more.
There is more to this I swear than meets the eye.

hmm, it demonstrates a highly corporate approach to the management of cultural assets. There is a ruthless use of culture for economic ends going on here what with the 'asset stripping' of Urbis and the 'off shoring' of the Library and Cornerhouse.

One hopes that the judgement of the 'directors' is sound and their interests are aligned with those of the 'shareholders'...

This is really depressing news.

New Cornerhouse type building plus a new theatre, as an extra facility, would be excellent news.

The above at the expense of an already brilliant and beloved institution. No thanks.

I think that this is an exciting development and an expansion/improvement of the space for contemporary arts in Manchester. That said, I will miss the smell of chips from the takeaway next door that you get in Cinema 3 in the current Cornerhouse... There are other problems with the building too - though it has served us well for 25 years.

MCC has a duty of care to Library Theatre Company (at the moment), but I suspect that it will cease to exist and be replaced by contemporary theatre Cornerhouse style in the new venue. Personally, I think that this will be a good thing and add to the cultural experience in the city.

As long as Cornerhouse play a leading role in the development of the project, I'm all for it.

It generally sounds good by why not just move the cinema and keep the bar as is.

I think that the bar and cafe would have to move with Cornerhouse for the development to make sense commercially. The front-of-house takings are as important if not more important than the box office to cultural venues such as Cornerhouse. The challenge will be recreating the Cornerhouse-vibe in the new venue and the best way to that is to involve Cornerhouse customers in the design of the new development - which could be fun...! "If we get to build it, we will come".

One thing is evident.

Even though (GTR) Manchester has a wealth of theatres and the like, it isn't recognized nationally as city where performing art is prevalent. Even though it is.

Hence the emphasis on MIF, Royal Opera House North(now abandoned), the new Chets school and now this.

It's obvious MCC is driving the city forward in many ways. This being one of them.

I'm all for it, even if it means moving from the Corner House to a new purpose built venue.

Yes it's evident, but you don't see New York moving the Angelica, or it's many other indie cinemas to a new development. How boring is this going to be. Surely the magic of the conerhouse is the quirk of having a separate building across the street and an old characterful screen under a train station. This is where cities go wrong IMO. And you simply can't compare this with the urbis situation. It's completely different.

And how can it be called the 'Corner-house' if it's stuck in the middle of First Street?

Leave Cornerhouse where it is (on the Corner of Oxford St/Whitworth St junction) and have a 'Cornerhouse 2' to compliment it down the road.

News story from the MEN with some quotes from the parties:

New home for Cornerhouse and Library Theatre in £19m arts centre plan
Exclusive by Deborah Linton

November 24, 2010

Manchester's iconic Cornerhouse cinema is set to move into a new £19m venue as part of a major arts shake-up.

The new building, near the former Hacienda club on Whitworth Street West, will also house the Library Theatre, which has needed a home since moving as part of the town hall redevelopment.

Cornerhouse, which specialise in independent cinema, has faced funding problems but bosses say visitor numbers have shot up by 88 per cent over the past two years.

The venue says it needs more space and will increase the number of screens from three to five in its new home.

The existing Cornerhouse building, on Oxford Road, is likely to become available for redevelopment, although firm plans have not been drawn up.

The new venue could open as early as spring 2014, and will also host a new gallery and outdoor performance space.

Cornerhouse boss Dave Moutrey said it would secure Manchester’s place as a leading culture destination.

He said: "The new facility will give us space to grow, to increase our audience and widen access to contemporary visual art and cinema.

"We’ll be able to create more opportunities for community involvement and to expand our role as a digitally connected producer."

The Library Theatre Company has been seeking a new home since moving out of their historic venue in the basement of Central Library earlier this year.

Artistic director Chris Horner said: "This is terrific news for Manchester audiences and the Library Theatre Company. It will enable the company to develop and expand its work and achieve its aspirations.

"The artistic potential of the collaboration with Cornerhouse is immense."

There had been plans to move the Library Theatre to the historic Theatre Royal, in Peter Street, but work revealed that it would cost too much to transform the listed building, which is currently used as a nightclub.

The new proposals were due to be considered by council chiefs today.

Coun Mike Amesbury said: "Manchester is committed to culture, something we see not as a luxury but as a necessity which creates jobs and other opportunities and is a fundamental part of attracting investors."

And council leader Sir Richard Leese said: "This is exactly the sort of scheme we need to get people into work, get our economy moving even faster, and show the world that Manchester is still an ambitious city."

The new venue will be on land at First Street, between Whitworth Street West and Mancunian Way. Funds for the theatre move are already in place and council papers say the remaining £3m will come from third parties and future town hall income.

The council already has an agreement in place with developers, Ask, who have been working with them on the 20-acre First Street site.

Council officers have also been working with the architects who designed the Bridgewater Hall, although the final look of the building will be decided after a contest.

This is exacly they type of home grown inovatively funded arts facilites that manchester needs.
However, i am not without concerns.

Hopefully more on the way.

all in all, this looks like a good move to me,

- I never liked the proposal to move the Library Theatre into the Theatre Royal, sacrificing the current auditorium to eanbale the construction of a hotel; which would then part-finance the theatre. On the face of it, it might seem the pefect deal all round, but the hotel developemnt never looked a reliable bet to happen, the Library Theatre company didn't need nearly as large an audience space as the current building; and there was always going to be trouble with English Heritage about losing the listed interior.

- linking up with Connerhouse looks like a good deal too; it has a strong brand (especially as a bar/meeting place) which the former Library cafe couldn't match; there is a great deal of cross-promotional synergy between films, plays, exhibition space; and there is no doubt that the existing Cornerhouse is cramped, and that its exbibition space suffers from poor access and get-in.

- two concerns; the location is more peripheral in terms of casual footfall especially for students (although close to a big leisure magnet in Deasgate Locks). Will the Cornerhouse be able to retain as much as possible of its existing user-base; while expanding its offer to enough to generate extra visitor interest? Secondly, this is switching one developeer sugar-daddy for another. We are now talkign major new-build; perhaps a competititon. I am presuming that Ask will donate the site on a very long lease, but still the City will need other funding partners. But who?

- Which then leaves the Theatre Royal. The building could still be the answer to a major shortfall in the arts facilities in Greater Manchester - as a town-centre receiveing theatrical space capable of taking touring drama productions and stand-up comedy. Currently we have three big (1,700 - 1,900) auditoriums; Opera House, Palace and Lowry main stage - all optimised for shows, opera and dance, but too big for live theatre. But then it is a big step-down in capacity to the smaller auditorium at the Lowry (500), and there is really nothing inbetween. If the Theatre Royal's current cinema auditorium were refitted for theatre, with extended foyer areas and bars, it would have a capacity of between 900 and 1,000, i.e. big enough for theatre-scale stand-up; but intimate enought to work for touring live theatre companies, and chamber opera (i.e. the sort of business that currently fills the 1,000 seat Opera House in Buxton) . And unlike most historic theatre buildings, it is on an island site with excellent get-in. But I suspect we will need to wait for the next economic upturn - and for a substantial further expamnsion of Manchester Reigional Centre for this to be in any way fundable)

I'm not sure I agree with the assertion that the Cornerhouse is cramped, its busy because its popular, and the incredible character of all those elements being shoehorned into the complex is an integral element of that popularity.

Clearly I am not against similar or addition facilities, and the theatre aspect aside from the Greenroom isn't provided now, but I think it is a mistake to presume what makes the Cornerhouse popular and vibrant is purely that it is a cinema with a bar.

I actually like the exhibition spaces it provides, but the problem is the main exhibitions are largely dull and ponderous. The better pieces are generally those displayed in the bar. New gallery space doesn't equal better exhibitions automatically.

The new site is better located for access by tram, which is obviously of increasing importance; but again the popularity as a meeting place of the current site is inextricably linked to the huge number of south bound buses that pass, and the train station adjacent.

What the council seems to be loosing site of, is that character and sense of place, cannot be scooped up and redeposited, just because you hang the same sign over the door. In the rush to add to the alleged 'offer' of the city, lets try not to destroy the things that are already enjoyed.

An image of what the new Cornerhouse could look like possibly.

http://img811.imageshack.us/img811/4716/20101124story06124piazz.jpg

Looks like The Deep in Hull.

Sorry, but you can't beat that elevated vista of a bustling Oxford St with the sumptious Palace opposite in the Cornerhouse Bar.

Odder's the next best bar, but you have the view of the BBC instead - not quite the same!

Keep the bar where it is (The Cornerhouse Bar) and expand it.

from 'The Stage'

Library Theatre plans £19 million new home
Published Wednesday 24 November 2010 at 16:20 by Natalie Woolman

Manchester’s Library Theatre is to move into a new £19 million building with contemporary art and film organisation Cornerhouse.

The two arts organisations will be housed in a purpose-built building together on First Street, which will include a 500-seat theatre, a smaller studio space, an outdoor performance area, five cinemas and 600 square metres of contemporary gallery space. The centre is scheduled to open in spring 2014.

The building will be financed through the £16 million funds already earmarked for the Library Theatre’s relocation. The remaining £3 million will come from third party contributions and future capital receipts.

Councillor Mike Amesbury, executive member for culture and leisure at Manchester City Council, said: “Manchester is committed to culture, something we see not as a luxury but as a necessity which creates jobs and other opportunities and is a fundamental part of attracting investors to our city, as well as being an inspiring end in itself.

“These are extraordinarily exciting proposals which will unlock the regeneration of an important part of the city centre as well as creating a world-class new cultural attraction.”

Chris Horner, artistic director of the Library Theatre Company, added: “This is terrific news for Manchester audiences and the Library Theatre Company. It will enable the company to develop and expand its work and achieve its aspirations. The artistic potential of the collaboration with Cornerhouse is immense.”

The Library Theatre’s previous home is the basement of Central Library. It was initially planned for it to move into the city’s Theatre Royal but these plans were rejected after it was “established that the complexities of creating a theatre in the listed building meant it would have cost significantly more than originally budgeted for”, according to a statement.



I still think that £19m sounds pretty optimistic for this amount of space - even if they get £3m for the Cornerhouse site (which I very much doubt). I suspect they will need to raise quite a bit more from third parties.

An image of what the new Cornerhouse could look like possibly.

http://img811.imageshack.us/img811/4716/20101124story06124piazz.jpg

Wow, that looks like a great replacement for the current .. sorry, hang on... err.. uhh.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-NrPOMBKnw

Where is that image from Flange?

What can I say, the Cornerhouse is one of the best venues in Manchester and one the venues that you can take visitors to and say 'this is what Manchester feels like'.

At the same time, the Cornerhouse has been on a funding knife-edge and the building needs money spending on it that they just don't have. This new proposal answers two problems by also housing the Library Theatre and surely the sum of the two is greater than the parts, on paper at least.

This 'could' be great and shows genuine ambition in austere times, but Handle With Care. If you drop the Corner House and it gets damage it will be harder to replace then a Ming dynasty vase.

If the current bar space can be kept, this would be incredible news.

Where is that image from Flange?

From the article about the new building at Manchester Confidential.

http://www.manchesterconfidential.co.uk/News/General/Cornerhouse-to-move-to-First-Street_16141.asp

don't like this one bit. the involvement of ask just stinks. It'd be devastating for oxford road and the character of the city as a whole IMO.

don't like this one bit. the involvement of ask just stinks. It'd be devastating for oxford road and the character of the city as a whole IMO.

This, exactly this.

An image of what the new Cornerhouse could look like possibly.

http://img811.imageshack.us/img811/4716/20101124story06124piazz.jpg

Not a fan of that. Reminds me of 'The Public' in West Bromwich.

Yes it's evident, but you don't see New York moving the Angelica, or it's many other indie cinemas to a new development. How boring is this going to be. Surely the magic of the conerhouse is the quirk of having a separate building across the street and an old characterful screen under a train station. This is where cities go wrong IMO. And you simply can't compare this with the urbis situation. It's completely different.

I'm totally with you, this is sacrilege. So it goes from The Cornerhouse to The Arseendofnowherehouse? And as pointed out the passing clientele will be the Deansgate Locks crowd, not really arthouse cinema fans or even close.

I'm all for another new building at First St but to plonk a cultural institution like The Cornerhouse in the middle of some Starbucks wet dream is just wrong.

Not a fan of that. Reminds me of 'The Public' in West Bromwich.

I like the building, just minus The Cornerhouse.

The building looks like a shite university building/business school/6th form college/ new academy. Terrible. I can't stand that area of town either.

AJ suggests a design competition will be held for it, can't see any reference in the reports though, that 'initial functional model and outline design concept' is apparently for costing purposes only,

Contest to be launched for new Manchester arts venue

24 November, 2010

The Cornerhouse cinema and the Library Theatre Company will hold an international competition to design a new joint home in Manchester City Centre
...
An initial ‘functional model and outline design concept’ (pictured) has been drawn up by RHWL (http://www.rhwl.co.uk/arts.aspx) for developer ASK which is masterminding the larger redevelopment of the First Street site.
http://www.architectsjournal.co.uk/news/daily-news/contest-to-be-launched-for-new-manchester-arts-venue/8608424.article

:)

Even if a great building gets proposed in the end, I still think its a terribly misguided project.

Why can't it be based around the Library theatre, along with gallery & exhibition space, but leave the Cornerhouse out of it.

Surely two arts institutions in relatively close proximity would be far more credible that one in relative isolation? Treating it simply as a brand to be shifted across town at whim, will not increase this new buildings credibility.

I'm not particularly keen on the idea of basing either at First Street, but I see where the council is coming from. There are going to be some swingeing arts cuts over the next few years, and from that perspective rather than spreading its resources too thinly and risking the Library Theatre or the Cornerhouse failing, the Council might get a better return of reduced funding by running them as one.

Ultimately the problem is that the City of Manchester isn't big enough or rich enough to support the range and depth of arts activities that it should be able to. Long term I think arts and culture is something that the Combined Authority will have to have a hand in, to achieve economies of scale and ensure diversity of provision throughout the county.

Obviously the cornerhouse see this as a positive thing, once the politics about funding arise and more cornerhouse users become aware of the move hopefully they'll see sense and (no offense to them) the library theatre company will be forced to survive by other means.

Library Theatre could have gone to Northern Quarter

Ancoats was also on 2009 shortlist, report reveals

25/11/2010 09:07:55

The Library Theatre could have ended up in the Northern Quarter instead of its proposed new home on First Street.

A city council report confirming the move to a new £19m, 45,000 sq ft building that will also house the Cornerhouse shows that several options were looked at for the Library Theatre.

They included the BBC building on Oxford Road; the Theatre Royal; Mackie Mayor in the Northern Quarter; the Boddingtons site and St Peter’s Church in Ancoats, as part of a 2009 study carried out by research consultancy Ekosgen.

First Street was also mentioned but not seriously considered as a lack of funding for the site and the financial difficulties faced by its owner, Ask Developments, meant that ‘ the timescales appeared undeliverable’.

The Theatre Royal was given the nod, envisaging a 2013 opening, but the council performed a u-turn this week because of a possible two-year delay to those plans.

‘ This would mean that the LTC would be without a permanent home for five years and possible further disruption should it take longer to complete the associated development,’ said the report. ‘This will clearly be a major challenge in terms of keeping the brand alive and developing the new audience that will be required.’

The council also said the Theatre Royal site would be too small for the Library Theatre’s plans to open out its back of house operations to the public and for use as classrooms.

‘The limitations within a listed building would also increase the capital costs and reduce the opportunities for commercial income from trading activities such as retail, catering and corporate uses, and thereby increasing dependency on public sector resources,’ it said.

Discussions over a possible hotel operator for the Theatre Royal site are also stalling and no agreement has yet been reached. There have also been ‘significant planning and heritage issues’ associated with those plans, which involved a modern-looking skyscraper.

Arts organisation All about Audiences has been commissioned to explore audience potential on the new site, and are ‘very positive’ about First Street. ‘The Cornerhouse audience is not dependent on passing trade so it is reasonable to assume that the significant footfall that Cornerhouse currently enjoys can be transferred down Whitworth Street.’

The report also reaffirms the development agreement it signed with Ask which saw the authority contribute ‘several small parcels of land at the south of the site in return for a share in the profits of the development.

‘By creating a sense of place at First Street it will enhance the commercial development potential of the site helping to drive the delivery of the wider redevelopment of the area.

‘As a result it is anticipated that the site for the cultural facility can be made available to the city council for the project at a nominal cost, without a detrimental impact to the overall financial position under the proposed revised development framework.’

http://www.manchesterconfidential.co.uk/News/General/Library-Theatre-could-have-gone-to-Northern-Quarter_16154.asp

I'm totally with you, this is sacrilege. So it goes from The Cornerhouse to The Arseendofnowherehouse? And as pointed out the passing clientele will be the Deansgate Locks crowd, not really arthouse cinema fans or even close.
Do you really think the Cornerhouse gets much passing trade for the cinema? First Street isn't that far away and the sort of people that watch art house films are probably more prepared to travel to see them.

Externally, Cornerhouse is great but the cinema spaces are a bit grotty, especially Screen 1.

I'm totally with you, this is sacrilege. So it goes from The Cornerhouse to The Arseendofnowherehouse? And as pointed out the passing clientele will be the Deansgate Locks crowd, not really arthouse cinema fans or even close.

I'm all for another new building at First St but to plonk a cultural institution like The Cornerhouse in the middle of some Starbucks wet dream is just wrong.

Arseendofnowherehouse ? First St is about 100m down Whitworth St .

Having the Cornerhouse at First St will be very benefical for that side of the city , it will be 50m from the Bridgewater Hall and G-MEX and it would probably kick start many more developments in that area at First St , Axis to name just 2 .
Plus there is going to be a huge student population in that area around Cambridge St esp when the New Wakefield St tower block goes up .
Development's like this WILL change that area for good and give it a new identity
As it's been reported the Cornerhouse where it is currently based is on its arse financally this move will probably save it .

Do you really think the Cornerhouse gets much passing trade for the cinema? First Street isn't that far away and the sort of people that watch art house films are probably more prepared to travel to see them.

Externally, Cornerhouse is great but the cinema spaces are a bit grotty, especially Screen 1.

The grottyness is the reason it should be kept. Modern is sterile.

"first street" will be private/coporate property administered by ask will it not? brill.

The grottyness is the reason it should be kept. Modern is sterile.

Really ??? :nuts:

Arseendofnowherehouse ? First St is about 100m down Whitworth St .

Well, if you're gonna be exact about it, it's actually closer to 500m.

Well, if you're gonna be exact about it, it's actually closer to 500m.

350m, approx, or 2 stops on a free Metrobus.

Well, if you're gonna be exact about it, it's actually closer to 500m.

5 Mins walk .


Fact is , it's not that far from Oxford Rd

350m, approx, or 2 stops on a free Metrobus.

Well it does depend upon where on the site the cinema will be, but it's 400m just to the main access onto First Street, according to the measure tool on Google maps. And it's a big site so it could be much more than that.

It's not so much that it's a really remote location in absolute terms, but compared to the centrality and other venues and services surrounding the current prime site, it's very peripheral.

I am sure that it will be beneficial to that side of town's development, and the distance from Oxford Road is really irrelevant to me personally. As I said before, being closer to the tram will be as beneficial for many as being close to the buses, and actually better for access from the opposite side of town. It is the moving from the current location full stop that I object to.

So far everyone I have personally discussed this with has been furious, and they have all been regular users of the current facilities. There is a lot of genuine affection for the place, and I am certainly annoyed that I have in the past taken its existence for granted. I can honestly say no announcement about this city has ever shocked me as much.

Perhaps exact plans for the re-use of the existing buildings, along with an actual design for the new, will assuage the fears. A completion will certainly attract huge interest, and a special building will hopefully be the result. My main concern remains the damage to the current surrounding area from its loss, not worries about it being at First Street, which will inevitably in time become a developed and familiar part of the city centre.

The sudden appearance of a large supermarket on the Manc Way side of the masterplan, also doesn't fill me with confidence about the level of ambition for the scheme as a whole.

Why do people fear change?

I'm sure once the new purpose built building is finished, it will be a vast improvment on the facilities currently offered at the Corner House.(ask the staff and pupils at Chets)

I have no doubt the Corner House will remain an alternative venue in the future. It certainly won't end up as another Tesco's, thats for sure.

The present location is better.

The final point the Architecty makes, "the sudden appearance of a large supermarket on the Manc Way side of the masterplan, also doesn't fill me with confidence about the level of ambition for the scheme as a whole", would also worry me.

Are they going to put up a shed with a glass front? I thought in the press releases, they were talking about design excellence. Maybe, it will be of the John Lewis at Cheadle quality, which would suffice.

The Mancunian Way presents Manchester very well at the moment. Let's not turn it into a version of the M60 going through Stockport. And I say that as someone who lives in Stockport!

The development at the southern end won't purely be supermarket, just looks to be the anchor for a mixed use scheme.


Comment from Dave Moutrey, the director/chief exec of Cornerhouse, on RL's blog,
# Dave Moutrey Says:
26/11/2010

Cornerhouse cares a great deal about our audiences and that is why we think this is good for our future. I can’t speak for the Library Theatre Company but I think they would have the same view.

Cornerhouse is an independent charity that relies on public funding. So the first thing to say is that Cornerhouse Board of Trustees does not have to do what Manchester City Council tells it, it is truly independent. We chose to be part of this project because they, the Board of Trustees, considered it an excellent option for the long-term future of the organisation and the work that we exist to do. We consider it to be the best option because over the last four years our funding has been reduced and will continue to be cut significantly over the next twelve months. As a result we have made changes to the way we programme to generate more income and we also manage our costs very carefully. We have managed to double our gallery attendances last year and our cinemas performed very strongly. Consequently, we have survived so far.

However, despite everything we have done we know that to be more cost effective 5 screens would work better that 3. We also know that our existing screens are technically far from ideal. Cinema 1, for instance, has had a leaky roof for 25 years, we fix the leak and it appears somewhere else. Our galleries do not have adequate access for art works and are very difficult to install work in. They are freezing cold in winter and unbearably hot in summer. Our buildings, built in the 1930’s, consume gas and electricity at alarming rates. Our Operations Team do a fantastic job of keeping the doors open but it just gets harder and more expensive. So, against a background of diminishing public subsidy, where we have no option but to earn more money through the box office and café, we currently have buildings that eat money and are not fit for purpose.

We can now create a new, energy efficient building designed to present great theatre, art and film, artists will want to work with us even more than they do now. Our loyal customers will no longer have to queue out of the front door in the rain when we have a successful film. Our staff will have decent facilities to work in. It will enable us to generate more income and so survive these unprecedented cuts in arts funding. Furthermore we can expand our education and training work in better spaces.
http://www.manchester.gov.uk/blog/leadersblog/post/419

I'm not particularly keen on the idea of basing either at First Street, but I see where the council is coming from. There are going to be some swingeing arts cuts over the next few years, and from that perspective rather than spreading its resources too thinly and risking the Library Theatre or the Cornerhouse failing, the Council might get a better return of reduced funding by running them as one.

Ultimately the problem is that the City of Manchester isn't big enough or rich enough to support the range and depth of arts activities that it should be able to. Long term I think arts and culture is something that the Combined Authority will have to have a hand in, to achieve economies of scale and ensure diversity of provision throughout the county.

If MCC really wanted to support art and culture in manchester they would redevelop the current cornerhouse site. surely with a lot of remodelling there could be 5 cinemas in those buildings. Or in the arches or whatever. They're just interested in propping up first street principally.

oh and it'll definately become a tesco.

surely with a lot of remodelling there could be 5 cinemas in those buildings
Isn't that the point? The current site was never meant to be an arts complex. Hopefully Network Rail and MCC can do something imaginative with the site (they did a good job at Piccadilly) and before too long the fuss will be forgotten!

I wonder how many people here a regular users of the cornerhouse. Not many by the sounds of it, otherwise you'd be dead against this move.

I've only ever used it for a coffee. But that's why I like the location, you're on a busy street and the main road to the University and some of the nicer residential parts of Manchester. Oxford Road brings the Cornerhouse to life.

Interesting.

From AJ.

Contest to be launched for new Manchester arts venue 24 November, 2010 | By Richard Waite

The Cornerhouse cinema and the Library Theatre Company will hold an international competition to design a new joint home in Manchester City Centre

I wonder how many people here a regular users of the cornerhouse. Not many by the sounds of it, otherwise you'd be dead against this move.
I used to be when I lived nearer Manchester. I don't see why regular users should be against it. I think it sounds good and would have more chance of tempting me into the city now than the current venue.

I've only ever used it for a coffee. But that's why I like the location, you're on a busy street and the main road to the University and some of the nicer residential parts of Manchester. Oxford Road brings the Cornerhouse to life.
You do know the Cornerhouse isn't on Oxford Road? :nuts:

(It's Oxford Street - Oxford Rd is the other side of the railway, after the Medlock bridge)

:cheers:

You do know the Cornerhouse isn't on Oxford Road? :nuts:

(It's Oxford Street - Oxford Rd is the other side of the railway, after the Medlock bridge)

:cheers:

I don't care

I've only ever used it for a coffee. But that's why I like the location, you're on a busy street and the main road to the University and some of the nicer residential parts of Manchester. Oxford Road brings the Cornerhouse to life.

I don't understand why moving the cornerhouse to first street and the next life for the existing buildings require discussion in the same debate.

Clearly the cinema building has problems and it's difficult to see another viable use for it in it's current form. Is there an any concern that if the cornerhouse leaves it's former home in tact a new startup cinema may enter foray and compete? Now that backfire would be interesting.

More of a concern for me is the site of the bar/cafe. I'm not a regular but it's clearly one of the very best locations for a business of this type in the city. If the cornerhouse moves to First Street its new cinema may well flourish with the LTC but it's cafe/bar will be almost certainly be demoted to a pre-cinema/theatre bar.

Very often great bars use their building as the basis of what gives them their character. Off the top of my head I can think of no great bars in the city which reside in a new build. Indeed most of the city's best bars are in interesting buildings; The Cornerhouse being one of them (and few, if any have the views).

Why are they so keen to redevelop the building? If the cournerhouse must move (there's so many things that dont' work in the city, why mess with one that clearly does?) I would find the whole thing more agreeable if the bar/cafe can be left to be taken over by another independant.

I don't understand why moving the cornerhouse to first street and the next life for the existing buildings require discussion in the same debate.

Clearly the cinema building has problems and it's difficult to see another viable use for it in it's current form. Is there an any concern that if the cornerhouse leaves it's former home in tact a new startup cinema may enter foray and compete? Now that backfire would be interesting.

More of a concern for me is the site of the bar/cafe. I'm not a regular but it's clearly one of the very best locations for a business of this type in the city. If the cornerhouse moves to First Street its new cinema may well flourish with the LTC but it's cafe/bar will be almost certainly be demoted to a pre-cinema/theatre bar.

Very often great bars use their building as the basis of what gives them their character. Off the top of my head I can think of no great bars in the city which reside in a new build. Indeed most of the city's best bars are in interesting buildings; The Cornerhouse being one of them (and few, if any have the views).

Why are they so keen to redevelop the building? If the cournerhouse must move (there's so many things that dont' work in the city, why mess with one that clearly does?) I would find the whole thing more agreeable if the bar/cafe can be left to be taken over by another independant.

I don't know the figures for Cornerhouse but I was at an event last week where the boss of Band on the Wall said that they take 50 percent of their income from the box office and 50 percent from "front-of-house" operations (food and drink). Cornerhouse as an entity needs a successful bar and cafe offer to survive.

If I were them I would echo the Odeon in their restrictions on use of the vacated building, only instead of stipulating that the site cannot be used again as a cinema, I would say that it cannot be used again as a bar - unless that bar is part of a chain with wall-to-wall plasma screens showing non-stop football...

I bet the new Cornerhouse on (sic) First Street will have a very large secure car park next to the supermarket.

This sums the mentality involved.

"Coun Mike Amesbury said: "Manchester is committed to culture, something we see not as a luxury but as a necessity which creates jobs and other opportunities and is a fundamental part of attracting investors."

And council leader Sir Richard Leese said: "This is exactly the sort of scheme we need to get people into work, get our economy moving even faster, and show the world that Manchester is still an ambitious city."

Art as a commodity, culture as a means to make money. Call it Blackpool with a bigger town hall.

Remind me when Morrissey/ Stone Roses/Jeff Noon/ Anthony Burgess et all created what ever they created, did they do so to "generate jobs for the community?"

Blackpool but only a minority can enjoy and reap the benefits of the culture they foster. And the rest that is good? yeah, they are literally packaging it, covering it in cellophane and shipping it out.

Blackpool in that its about making money and not a Barca or Berlin where its creativity first and then economic benefits second.

Sort of which happened in Manchester until the various career opportunity and youth workers on the council got too old and detached and plainly conservative and started to see only balance sheets.

I think you're being a bit naive there RE Barcelona. Barcelona is the blueprint for the aggressive dislocating form of regeneration and the push towards the economic benefits of culture. I think that art centre in El Raval was built as apart of slum clearance.

The point is that we're past that now. If they haven't realised through the recession that they shouldn't be propping up ridiculously unsustainable property developments then they should be OUT. We need real change, and what's good we need to treasure.

Forget the Cornerhouse. Creating a purpose built building in a specifically designated area while retaining its original ethics and fans - it doesn't work. It's dead from 2014 onwards when it goes mainstream. Hopefully by then, new indy cinemas will have sprouted in and around the city.

Now that the frozen rage of standing in the -10 of a Warsaw street has worn off today, I can and should look at this rationally.

I can see why MCC are looking at this. Firstly it gives them someone to anchor the First (sic) Street wasteland with. Given that it rumoured that they will share half the profits from any developments, it is clear they will favour this over other plots in the city.

Second it ensures that the Cornerhouse is developed when some feel its not up to scratch. It ensures a firmer future for the Library Theatre. That is tremendous.

It releases a very prime piece of land on Oxford Street for development and thus higher incomes for MCC.

I am convinced by the economic arguments, but then again......................................

Its location is not great. Talk about 100 or 500 metres, but First (sic) Street is a wasteland after 6pm and doesnt entice anyone to explore it alone. Especially if you are middle aged and/or female. Its not the Baltic Centre, astride the river, nor the Nottingham Contemporary, next to trendy Hockley. Its plonked between a rail viaduct and a motorway and lifeless at the best of times.

Compared to the present locations (Of the C'house and library theatre) the public transport access is worse. Not wholly poor i admit, but it will encourage car usage. So I guess this will have to contain a 500 capacity car park which again makes this ascetically less pleasing.

They will really need to do a very good job to convince people of the credibility of this project. As well as make the area feel safe.

But most of all, I just don't trust MCC to get it right. I think of the Free Trade Hall, the Urbis and even to a lesser degree Piccadilly Gardens and realise when it comes to "culture" MCC just don't get it. And when they do its based on balance sheet and 80's perceptions of "art" forged in some Labour committee in a smokey room upstairs from a pub where the sounds of the "big Match" was followed by the karaoke. Ill thought concepts that seemed to mirror everything about the excesses of the last two decades.

Witness the chasing of the Royal Opera House to a city that lacks a modern operatic tradition. Yet we were lead to believe that this London "franchise" would survive like some middle class disney based on the tourist trade, propped up with public funds.

So to conclude I see the good reasoning behind this, but I am cynical about this. My head and heart aren't in tandem. We will see.

Some people are so scared of change , with it moving to this new facility with the Library Theatre it will be saved .

2 choice's .

1. In the near future the Cornerhouse will close and never to be seen again , and the building turned into a Tesco Metro .

2. The Cornerhouse move's 5 mins up the road to a new building which it will share with one of the cities favorite thatre's

Mmmm i know which one i prefer .

Its location is not great. Talk about 100 or 500 metres, but First (sic) Street is a wasteland after 6pm and doesnt entice anyone to explore it alone. Especially if you are middle aged and/or female. Its not the Baltic Centre, astride the river, nor the Nottingham Contemporary, next to trendy Hockley. Its plonked between a rail viaduct and a motorway and lifeless at the best of times.



Good grief what a miserable moaning twat you are ,, First St is 100m from Deansgate Lock's the G-mex, Bridgewater Hall and your precious grotty hole Cornerhouse
First St is in progress give it bloody time . with this theatre moving there it will change the area .
Stop being so negative :bash:

off an a slight tangent - if whitworth street west wasnt just a boring series of estate agents and kebab shops but had some actual retail then the journey from oxford road to first street would be a lot more appealing.

and when are dandara going to let that unit on the corner? (near the railway arch).

In manchester they seem to be one of the worst offenders in terms of unlet units...the bridge and the ground floor units in the lowry hotel also being shocking wastes. is this just a case of rent greed or incompetence? it's not like they are bad locations.

and their buildings are shite, generally.

Apologies for the essay, but the provision of culture in Manchester tends to get me going...

Like a lot of people, I'm ambivalent about this move because I'm so attached to the existing building. But while its bar space and book shop are great, the cinemas are tawdry and the gallery space is frankly terrible--a shame, because while the exhibitions that the Cornerhouse hosts are sometimes niche they're usually decent and deserve to be seen by more people. Cornerhouse have been looking into the possibility of expansion and redevelopment for some time: MBLA (then MBLC, I think) were commissioned to do a feasibility study into redeveloping the existing premises about a decade ago, but nothing came of it. A move like the one proposed might seem like cutting the Gordian knot rather than an attempt to resolve the issues presented by the current building, but it'd enable the organisation to cut running costs while improving the quality of their theatres and gallery spaces significantly. Surely good things.

Not much has been said about the Library Theatre on here, but it deserves attention: it's an excellent little theatre whose productions are usually both high-quality and well-attended, despite being produced at low cost. It's also been a key part of Manchester's cultural fabric since the 1950s, and personally I think it's a great example of a post-war model of civic cultural provision that has stood the test of time. It's good that it's ready to expand.

My big worry isn't really to do with location, as I'm sure First Street will, given time, integrate into the fabric of the city fairly well: transport connections are better there than in the Cornerhouse's current location and a decent cultural institution might serve to connect "Heritage Manchester" (aka Castlefield) with the university area. It's the uprooting of existing cultural institutions in order to form a single "cultural campus" that worries me. First, the danger with this approach is that the visibility of culture across the city is reduced--once upon a time we had Urbis, Cornerhouse, the Library Theatre etc., situated all over the city in way that helped to increase the city's general cultural provision. The danger with ghettoising cultural institutions is that the city ends up feeling like a shopping centre with a couple of big culture spots on the outskirts.

Second, and connected: this is a very New Labour approach to urban regeneration, and I'm worried that the national support for it has completely disappeared. The tendency while Labour held power was towards cultural governance, and this manifested itself in the use of cultural campuses to regenerate derelict areas of Salford, Sunderland etc. However, the national agenda has completely changed: the current administration is moving away from cultural governance and the exposure of existing institutions to the market is undoubtedly going to increase as it tries to implement its "Big Society" idea. (See the People's History Museum and the Museum of Science and Industry currently face having their funding cut drastically.)

The Cornerhouse and Library Theatre have established remits and enjoy solid patronage, but they may need support after the move, and I'm worried that proper resources won't be made available to them if the move causes difficulties. One consequence of the shift away from cultural governance might be that provision has to be locally-funded to a greater extent. I actually quite like this idea, but it entails being ready to take a long-term approach and support institutions accordingly. We don't want another Urbis: shaky at first, getting better and better every year, attracting higher profile exhibitions while remaining dynamic, but built at great cost without a proper remit and soon a real economic problem for the council which they eventually sought to remove as a liability. (Don't get me wrong: I'm glad the NFM is coming to Mcr--if nothing else, for economic reasons--and I don't mind it occupying Urbis's building, but I hate that it's at the expense of Urbis as an institution.)

One last thought: presumably the fact that the Cornerhouse means that it can't easily switch uses. Isn't there a possibility that another cinema organisation will step in? Eg Picturehouse, which tends to focus on middle-of-the-road provision?

Pardon me highriser!?!?

Call me a tw@t. You aren't the first nor last. But is it necessary to use such language when anyone disagrees on this forum!!

Actually you might be surprised, but we agree on most of this. Agreed that the distances from elsewhere is not substantial. it won't break anyone's back to walk down there and as the research points out the passing trade is not what drives the C'house nor Library Theatre. People go to these venues. Its the distance in people's minds that matter and physical boundaries such as the rail viaduct that inhibit movement.

I agree that the site needs an anchor to succeed. There is a credible economic argument here. But my point is that there will be some very careful planning, utility of lightning and space and public safety to ensure that this feels part of the city centre and not something plonked on wasteland at the back of a motorway.

Its been achieved with the Salford Quays/Lowry, Deangate Locks and Castlefield. All areas that were previously considered unkempt and unsafe after dark. It can be done again, but it really needs good design, public safety and easy access to work. It needs to feel organic than like some Soviet era "gift" to the proletariat. I have seen the Warsaw Palace of Culture this week and no one loves it. If it doesnt have the goodwill of the various "stakeholders" associated with the two cultural centres, then it will struggle.

And as Monkey says it means considering all the adjoining areas, not just what ASK owns. But maybe that's the idea. This as the catalyst.

Big Society Beram. That more about Victorian ideals of rich private donations and non state public subscription like Public Radio in the states.

The latter would be a great idea if only there was the numbers of supporters was there to achieve it. Its an untested idea so far in the UK.

As for the former. Anyone wish to ask Mr Guggenheim or Frank Cohen. Well feel free.

It's not distance it's location, the Cornerhouse is something you walk past as you come out of the railway station, and ride past as you sit on a bus. It's nicer as part of a living mixed streetscape not a cultural industrial estate.

....it won't break anyone's back to walk down there and as the research points out the passing trade is not what drives the C'house nor Library Theatre. People go to these venues. Its the distance in people's minds that matter and physical boundaries such as the rail viaduct that inhibit movement.

I agree that the site needs an anchor to succeed. There....will be some very careful planning.... to ensure that this feels part of the city centre and not something plonked on wasteland at the back of a motorway. As Monkey says it means considering all the adjoining areas, not just what ASK owns. But maybe that's the idea. This as the catalyst.

The proposed new sight is at the City Centre side of First St, so I don't personally think that it will feel isolated. As a catalyst this should hopefully prove the element that will entice people, businesses, developers etc, to cross Whitworth St to occupy and expand this part of the city.

As you say the Library Theatre and Cornerhouse were venues in their own rights and as physically increased and conjoined attractions I can only see this being more of the case.

Yes, it could be argued that the cafe and brasserie may suffer as they would have benefitted more from passing trade, but as there are no other similar provisions in this expanding part of the city, they should hopefully benefit from a new audience of office workers during the day and the clientele as well as passers by in the evenings, which will certainly be an enhancement of trade for the Library Theatre.

.....One consequence of the shift away from cultural governance might be that provision has to be locally-funded to a greater extent. I actually quite like this idea, but it entails being ready to take a long-term approach and support institutions accordingly. We don't want another Urbis: shaky at first, getting better and better every year, attracting higher profile exhibitions while remaining dynamic, but built at great cost without a proper remit and soon a real economic problem for the council which they eventually sought to remove as a liability.

I think a large decider in his move has been the economic circumstances. In an ideal world the city council would have rehoused the library theatre in the Theatre Royale and the Cornerhouse could have epanded and flourished in it's current home.

The problems are that £19m was apparently not enough to restore the Theatre Royale, and the Cornerhouse sight is restricted and is expensive to maintain.

£22m, gets you a landmark, enlarged and purpose built facility to house both on a single sight, with shared amenities which I am certain will reduce overheads massively and thus reliance on subsidy frm the public purse.

As a benefit, they also get to revitalise a sight that is lets face it extremely central, but performing well below expectation and potential given the centrality. Bridgewater Hall is a stone's throw away and has been an immensely successful addition to the city's cultural portfolio.

The Contact Theatre does well and retains that intagible 'Manchester' vibe and RNCM performs well in modern surrounds. I am a regular patron and massive fan of the Cornerhouse in it's present state, but who says it can't keep what it's got by moving premises. It is after all the functions that it performs and the people that attend and love the Cornerhouse that make it what it is.

The funny thing about my negativity towards this, is that a couple of weeks before the announcement I had a wander around First Street on a sunny morning and rather liked the new public realm. The little square that has been formed behind the council offices is really well done, and I could see immediate potential for the area for the first time since the BBC decision went to the Quays.

It really isn't the new site that is a problem, being close to the Bridgewater hall pairs up nicely, kicks off development here etc. I'll still lament the loss of the old building(s), no matter what they become. It would be possible to sell them on with a covenant forbidding food retail though! The ridiculous idea of a full size supermarket on First Street also has to disappear.

Maybe I'm talking myself into not being as annoyed about it*

*Conditional to being a very good building.

The funny thing about my negativity towards this, is that a couple of weeks before the announcement I had a wander around First Street on a sunny morning and rather liked the new public realm. The little square that has been formed behind the council offices is really well done, and I could see immediate potential for the area for the first time since the BBC decision went to the Quays.

It really isn't the new site that is a problem, being close to the Bridgewater hall pairs up nicely, kicks off development here etc. I'll still lament the loss of the old building(s), no matter what they become. It would be possible to sell them on with a covenant forbidding food retail though! The ridiculous idea of a full size supermarket on First Street also has to disappear.

Maybe I'm talking myself into not being as annoyed about it*

*Conditional to being a very good building.

I think I might have talked myself into favouring it as well. Cognitive dissoance is a powerful tool. I suppose it depends how much art centre you can get for £19 million.

I think how the handle the supermarket will be the key to this working or not. Reading the docs it does make sense, both in terms of pulling people out of the city centre and pulling them in from Hulme to put a major commercial utility on First Street. However simply plonking a typical Tesco by the Princess Road/Manc Way roundabout is more likely to devalue First Street as an office location and wider retail space than it is support it. If they can develop a plan for plot C that allows a large supermarket and small shops to coexist, and provides a continuous safe, convenient and pleasant pedestrian route through the site then I think it could work.

Funny in that a supermarket will help "humanize" this open land. After all the buzz and activity of a shop lends itself to some sense that of safety, unless of course its a haven for anti social behaviours.

We are also forgetting that the GMEX/Manchester Central area is planned for modernisation which will have a bearing on this development.

Now thats the northside, what about the southside. Thats more problematic.

And yeah if its a metal box, it will just die.

Supermarkets are handy, especially the Tesco Metro sized ones. European cities are full of them.

Any office development needs one nearby. A huge supermarket is no use without a carpark.

Maybe they are thinking something along the lines of the Brunswick Centre in Bloomsbury

There's an interesting article about Frome, regeneration and supermarkets here:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/video/2010/nov/30/john-harris-frome-neoliberalism

Maybe I'm talking myself into not being as annoyed about it*

*Conditional to being a very good building.

My situation exactly.

We are also forgetting that the GMEX/Manchester Central area is planned for modernisation which will have a bearing on this development.

My understanding is that there are other plans for this area too. Oxford Road station to have an exit that serves First Street, First Street to have a new multi-storey car park, Whitworth Street West arches to be improved in terms of their leisure/retail use with a focus on bars and restaurants and a new pedestrian access to the City Centre to be created with a footbridge over the Rochdale Canal - presumably connecting with the footway near Barbiroli Square.

There are also aspirations for First Street in terms of student footfall towards the City Centre from the residential developments. Also if they change the focus of the office development away from competing with Spinningfields and Piccadilly Place then this could be interesting too. I am thinking a development of new offices that is pitched slightly lower towards the sort of occupiers that currently end-up in the former warehouse buildings on Oxford Street, for example Arup in St James's Buildings. First Street could become a focus (let's avoid the term hub shall we?) for technical disciplines such as architects and design practices...

I don't understand the Oxford Road exit idea...the station is quite some distance from First Street.

I don't understand the Oxford Road exit idea...the station is quite some distance from First Street.

And it will probably only be open at peak hours

I don't understand the Oxford Road exit idea...the station is quite some distance from First Street.

New main street level Oxford Road concourse in the arches currently utilised for car parking with pedestrian access onto Whitworth Street West (site of Cornerhouse 1) and New Wakefield Street. Lifts and new stairs up to platform level, including new suspended pedestrian bridge from end of Platform 1 over Gloucester Street and down onto First Street by the car park entrance.

Funding contributions welcome....

Regards,
Slip

I suppose that the space left by the Cornerhouse will be set up for a very convenient place for a tram interchange if it ever descended down Oxford Road.

Yeah that's right, knock down what is currently a landmark.. and build a tram stop. I'm all for trams in Manchester but lets get real. Oxford Street/Road is in some people's eyes is a dirty, but lively street and important ventricle into and out of the centre. The Cornerhouse is effective in providing continuity along what is already a very long and broken-up passage. Apart from the bars and the Palace theatre, the Cornerhouse is by far the most interesting thing on there until you hit RNCM and the Museum. If the Cornerhouse goes, then something equally as good will need to replace it.... not a tram stop.

New main street level Oxford Road concourse in the arches currently utilised for car parking with pedestrian access onto Whitworth Street West (site of Cornerhouse 1) and New Wakefield Street. Lifts and new stairs up to platform level, including new suspended pedestrian bridge from end of Platform 1 over Gloucester Street and down onto First Street by the car park entrance.

Funding contributions welcome....

Regards,
Slip

right...I think I get it now. So there is access for first street planned for Gloucester/Cambridge Street where the wasteland is now I'm guessing.

Even so, its a bit of a tight/awkward place to put an entrance, will it cut across the plot where Grand Central was going to be built?

First Street could become a focus (let's avoid the term hub shall we?) for technical disciplines such as architects and design practices...

This would be interesting, but at the expense of the city's eastern edge? The council seemed keen not so long ago to encourage businesses like this out towards Piccadilly and Ancoats--MBLA, Stephenson Bell, Ask.

right...I think I get it now. So there is access for first street planned for Gloucester/Cambridge Street where the wasteland is now I'm guessing.

Even so, its a bit of a tight/awkward place to put an entrance, will it cut across the plot where Grand Central was going to be built?

That was just a bit of wishful guesswork on my behalf :) I suppose a cheaper alternative utilising the current Oxford Road station concourse would be to have a pedestrian bridge from by Platform 5 along Whitworth Street West to a convenient point by the arches opposite Bridgewater bank (with associated stairs/ramp/lift.

Assuming that any pedestrian walkway was attached to the viaduct, the only prospective/existing site that the route would cut over on either side of the viaduct would be the printers on Gloucester street. The remainder would either be over pavement/road or the Medlock.

Regards,
Slip

Manchester is investing in a £19m building for two cultural institutions – the Library Theatre and the Cornerhouse – that defies the squeeze on arts organisations.

The project, tentatively dubbed The Art Factory in a nod to the Factory Records founder Tony Wilson, could be open within three years. It will house five cinemas, a vast contemporary gallery space, a 500-seat theatre, education space and a cafe.

The Cornerhouse cinema and gallery has had its programme funding cut by half over the last four years despite visitor numbers increasing by 88%. Its future had seemed uncertain.

For 58 years, the Library Theatre has languished in a basement in the Central Library originally built as a lecture theatre.

Dave Moutrey, Cornerhouse chief executive, said: "We've both built up great support from our audiences and we have a strong reputation for innovation and collaboration – that's why this new development is so exciting for us."

It will provide the space to increase audiences for contemporary visual art and cinema and as a digitally connected producer, he said.

The current Cornerhouse building has a leaking roof in one of its cinemas and not enough exhibition space. "People will miss the cafe most," he said. "It is the most comfortable part of the building. The challenge for us is to get the mix right in the new venue."

Chris Honer, the theatre's artistic director, hailed the project as great news for the region. The front of house had become increasingly dilapidated and the theatre was in dire need of extra facilities to develop a community and education outreach programme, he said.

The Library Theatre moved out in June – the Central Library is being refurbished – and its festive and spring programme will be performed at the Lowry in Salford.

Originally, the theatre planned to move to the old Theatre Royal in Peter Street, but it proved too costly and the building too narrow.

It is hoped the Library Theatre Company will be able to tour and will garner a national and international reputation as a result of the move.

Mike Amesbury, the executive member for culture and leisure on Manchester city council, said the new building would create thousands of jobs and kickstart growth in the digital creative industries in a new part of Manchester.

He said the council was committed to culture and praised the synergy between the two organisations. "The government has been saying to the arts that they have to turn to philanthropy – but you can't keep doing that in Manchester to fund the cultural sector."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/culture/2010/dec/09/library-theatre-cornerhouse-project

The project, tentatively dubbed The Art Factory in a nod to the Factory Records founder Tony Wilson, could be open within three years. http://www.guardian.co.uk/culture/2010/dec/09/library-theatre-cornerhouse-project

No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No!

This has nothing to do with Wilson, nothing to do with Factory and should not be cloaked in all this sentimental bullshit.

The Wilson/Factory association also has worrying overtones in terms of the financial viability of the new scheme...!

Lastly, I don't want Saville, Kelly or any of their post-modernist mates anywhere near this project. To paraphrase Owen Hatherley, they are average practitioners who have already provided us with their best work. To paraphrase Tony Wilson, now they can fuck off!

I told the CH I thought the Art Factory was a terrible name, on twitter. They've not tweeted back at me about it yet!
The Art Factory sounds like a discount poster shop selling knock-off prints of Lamborghinis and Lucy Pinder, and kitten calendars next door to the Card Factory (http://www.cardfactory.eu.com/) in a dim dusty corner of the Arndale.

I told the CH I thought the Art Factory was a terrible name, on twitter. They've not tweeted back at me about it yet!
The Art Factory sounds like a discount poster shop selling knock-off prints of Lamborghinis and Lucy Pinder, and kitten calendars next door to the Card Factory (http://www.cardfactory.eu.com/) in a dim dusty corner of the Arndale.

fart factory

that is really quite a shit name.

fart factory

:lol:

I sent them a tweet also on the lines of "we don't want Manchester to be a culutral mausoleum."

Why does it need the word art in it. Are we provincials so gauche that we need everything spelt out for us.

Why does it need the word art in it. Are we provincials so gauche that we need everything spelt out for us.

So you want it to be just 'Factory'?

No of course you don't so what's your point?

fartory?

Tony would have fucking HATED that!!!

Tender for the design team has gone out.

Manchester City Council is procuring and developing a new cultural facility at First Street Manchester, working in collaboration with landowner ASK, who are in turn responsible for the delivery of the associated developments within the Cultural Quarter masterplan for the Northern part of the site which is expected to include a multi storey car park, retail/leisure units, hotel development and a major new public realm including external performance space.

The project brings together two cultural organisations, the Library Theatre Company and Cornerhouse, to form a new cultural organisation. The new cultural facility will incorporate up to five cinemas, major contemporary gallery spaces, a 500 seat theatre and smaller studio space and education spaces, a large cafe/open foyer and all the associated technical back of house spaces.

The building will be around 5 000 sq m and take advantage of the sloped incline to the site to link with an exciting outdoor performance space as part of the wider masterplan include independent and robust retail offer.

Manchester City Council wishes to appoint an architecturally led design team to provide the full range of design services for the new cultural facility. The design team is to comprise a suitably qualified and experienced architectural team, with proven track record in delivering cultural buildings, to provide lead design services for a multi disciplinary team to include mechanical and electrical consultants, structural and civil engineers, quantity surveyor, performance design specialists (including full acoustic design).

The overall net construction cost is estimated to be approximately 14,000,000 GBP.

A list of key project milestone dates is included below:

Project Implementation January - March 2011
Concept design July - September 2011
Detailed design & production drawings September 2011 - April 2012
Build period May 2012 - December 2013
Fit out & commissioning January 2014 - June 2014
Opening 2014.

It is anticipated that the design services contract period will be from Summer 2011 to Spring 2012.

Deadline for interest 1st March.

14m is a very modest price. Not that money equals good architecture, but it does help!

Interesting few tweets last week from the Cornerhouse director,
@davemoutrey (http://twitter.com/#!/davemoutrey)
Final day of design team interviews today then decision time
27 May (http://twitter.com/#!/davemoutrey/status/74007103131488256)

Looks like the tender's been awarded then...
@davemoutrey (http://twitter.com/#!/davemoutrey)
Looking forward to meeting our architects this afternoon for the start of the design process, exciting!
22 Jun (http://twitter.com/#!/davemoutrey/status/83514195215257600)

Ahhh here we go, from BD yesterday,
Dutch practice Mecanoo has been appointed preferred bidder to design a £19 million cultural centre at First Street in central Manchester

23 June 2011

The firm – which is also designing Birmingham’s new library – beat teams led by Bennetts Associates, Austin-Smith Lord and RHWL Arts Team. Grimshaw also made the shortlist, as did Haworth Tompkins before dropping out of the competition.

The project is being led by Manchester Council and developer Ask Developments. It will cost £14 million to build and will bring together two existing cultural organisations - Manchester Library Theatre Company and cinema and arts hub Cornerhouse – to form a new, as yet unnamed, arts and cultural company.

Mecanoo will now work up detailed designs for the new cultural hub, which will include up to five cinemas, major gallery spaces, a 500-seat theatre and smaller studio space and education spaces. A foyer with a café and associated back-of-house areas are also envisaged.

Manchester Council said it wanted the building to have a “high quality and innovative” exterior, with “functional and simply expressed” internal spaces to create an “art factory”.

The scheme is part of the wider regeneration of the city’s First Street area. The plan includes a multi-storey car park, retail and leisure units, hotels and a major new public realm, including an external performance area.

Mecanoo’s cultural centre is expected to be the focal point, providing transport links via rail and the Deansgate locks.

Construction work is scheduled to start on site in May 2012, with a view to opening the centre in 2014.

The Library Theatre Company had previously planned to move to Manchester’s Theatre Royal, under proposals drawn up by Stephenson Bell Architects. However, this idea was scrapped by the council on costs grounds.
http://www.bdonline.co.uk/news/mecanoo-set-to-build-manchester-arts-hub/5020381.article

Thanks ng, should be interesting to see what's proposed. I'm quite keen on their Birmingham library (although we shall see how it looks when finished) and having a look at their portfolio - particularly the theatre and museum work - it appears that they've done some quite interesting things. Does anybody know which plot this is going on (and therefore the rough proportions of the building we'll be getting)?

So a bit of Dutch flair will be added to our city here and they have also won the landscaping contract for NoMa.

From AJ.

Conceptual render of the proposal from last/this year.(not sure)

http://www.architectsjournal.co.uk/pictures/704x528fitpad[150]/3/5/3/1242353_06124_piazza_V2day.jpg

Mecanoo has won the international competition to design a £19 million new joint home in Manchester City Centre for The Cornerhouse cinema and the Library Theatre Company


It is understood the outfit saw off teams led by Austin-Smith Lord, Bennetts Associates and RHWL Arts Team which had earlier come up with ‘a functional model and outline design concept’ (pictured) for the cultural centre within ASK’s First Street development.

Mecanoo has yet to draw up its detailed designs for the project which will house 600m² of gallery space, a 500-seat theatre, studios, an outdoor performance space as well as a café and back of house facilities.

The Dutch practice, which is led by founding partner Francine Houbin, is currently working on Birmingham’s huge new library.

The building could open as early as 2014.

Previous story (AJ 24.11.2010)
Contest to be launched for new Manchester arts venue
The Cornerhouse cinema and the Library Theatre Company will hold an international competition to design a new joint home in Manchester City Centre

The £19 million ‘major new cultural facility and cultural hub’ on the northern side of First Street will house 600m² of gallery space, a 500-seat theatre, studios, an outdoor performance space as well as a café and back of house facilities.

According to Manchester city Council, the scheme is already ‘fully-funded’ with £16 million already ringfenced as part of the Library Theatre relocation deal - it was originally housed in the soon-to-be refurbished town hall complex - and the remaining £3 million coming from third party contributions and future capital receipts.

An initial ‘functional model and outline design concept’ (pictured) has been drawn up by RHWL for developer ASK which is masterminding the larger redevelopment of the First Street site.

Previous plans worked up by Stephenson Bell to move the Library Theatre to the listed Theatre Royal, in Peter Street, were scrapped on the grounds of costs.
The move to the site ear the former Hacienda club on Whitworth Street West will lead to the potential redevelopment of the Cornerhouse’s current home near Oxford Road station.

Councillor Mike Amesbury, executive member for Culture and Leisure, said: ‘Manchester is committed to culture, something we see not as a luxury but as a necessity which creates jobs and other opportunities and is a fundamental part of attracting investors to our city, as well as being an inspiring end in itself.

‘These are extraordinarily exciting proposals which will unlock the regeneration of an important part of the city centre as well as creating a world-class new cultural attraction.

He added: ‘At a time when the arts world is experiencing many cuts, it’s fantastic that Manchester is leading the way by investing in our cultural economy.

‘Combining the undoubted strengths and growing audiences of Cornerhouse and the Library Theatre Company will allow the two companies to expand and flourish.’

The building could open in 2014.

I could live with this:

http://www.mecanoo.nl/Default.aspx?tabid=135&pcode=A208&subs=false

^^meh, looks like a modern student union (and yes they do look like that these days). I want something moar.

I think, I know, this will turn out to be a great asset for the city. You can imagine MIF being all over this like a rash when it's complete and the festival is on, etc.

After the initial complaints and concerns from certain sections of Manchester's chattering classes, the silence is deafening. Thankfully.

I do hope the actual Cornerhouse is retained and used though!

I do hope the actual Cornerhouse is retained and used though!

as a place devoted to indy films and a neighbouring cafe hopefully.

as a place devoted to indy films and a neighbouring cafe hopefully.

Indeed! :cheers:

No chance. Cornerhouse own that building and I am sure that their ideal scenario is to see it demolished and replaced. Their joint venture partner in the new development, MCC, will ensure that no planning permission is approved for cinema or bar etc at the old site.

The plot for the new building is adjacent to the railway viaduct. The area is currently grass, although it may include some of the car park too. There will be a public square between the new building and the First St building curently occupied by the council.

I will be sad to see Cornerhouse close but after 25-years what are they supposed to do? Cinema 1 has a leaking roof that the railway landlord is slow to fix. Cinema 3 smells of chips at weekends as the deep fat fryer that serves the students next door builds up a head of steam. Odeon at The Printworks now shows some of the films that used to be the preserve of Cornerhouse and offers better seats, sound and visual quality. Something has got to give.

With the move, Cornerhouse is opening up a whole new array of artistic and cultural experiences. Imagine if the Cornerhouse did theatre. That is the sort of thing that we have to look forward to.

So I say thanks for the memories Cornerhouse, but now we have to move on.

No chance. Cornerhouse own that building and I am sure that their ideal scenario is to see it demolished and replaced. Their joint venture partner in the new development, MCC, will ensure that no planning permission is approved for cinema or bar etc at the old site.

It would be blunderous to demolish that building. Oxford Road would feel a lot less metropolitan and buzzing without it.

It won't be demolished. It'll probably be sold or redeveloped. It's part and parcel of Oxford Road.

tenner bet it'll be a supermarket.

Odeon at The Printworks now shows some of the films that used to be the preserve of Cornerhouse and offers better seats, sound and visual quality. Something has got to give.

Missing the point. The draw of the Cornerhouse is not necessarily because of niche films. People know what to expect in terms of sound and visual quality at the CH, and they go because it offers an alternative to a modern multiplex with digital pics and mod cons. Its almost like saying knock the old Palace down because there's now the Bridgewater Hall nearby etc. It's Manchester's version of a drive-in movie theatre or an old picturehouse in the US. There's literally hundreds of independent screens across all the major cities in the US, and I'm sure most cities here have their fair share of rough diamonds needing a spruce up. Does Manchester really now have to have all its cultural offering in a steel and glass building akin to the Lowry and Bridgewater Hall? I already find it hard to differentiate between the two. Too samey.

With the move, Cornerhouse is opening up a whole new array of artistic and cultural experiences. Imagine if the Cornerhouse did theatre. That is the sort of thing that we have to look forward to.

Yeah, forced culture. A bunch of councillors didn't get together one day and say 'let's build the Cornerhouse.' It grew naturally, took a prominent seat on a busy artery and crossroads, improved its facilities, and flourished. People can defend the area before it's built, but First Street is a pretty bland shite part of Manchester, and I recon it'll remain so even after a couple of middling buildings have been constructed. The current cafe/bar also has a majority of its custom through its large footfall, something that First Street will never, ever have. Combined, its geographically and sociologically impossible. Come at me.:)

Surely the bar/restaurant makes a profit? If they can still retain it as that whilst still owning it, then there will be no need to sell it surely? It's the best people watching location in the city!

tenner bet it'll be a supermarket.
Furniture store ;)

Missing the point. The draw of the Cornerhouse is not necessarily because of niche films. People know what to expect in terms of sound and visual quality at the CH, and they go because it offers an alternative to a modern multiplex with digital pics and mod cons. Its almost like saying knock the old Palace down because there's now the Bridgewater Hall nearby etc. It's Manchester's version of a drive-in movie theatre or an old picturehouse in the US. There's literally hundreds of independent screens across all the major cities in the US, and I'm sure most cities here have their fair share of rough diamonds needing a spruce up. Does Manchester really now have to have all its cultural offering in a steel and glass building akin to the Lowry and Bridgewater Hall? I already find it hard to differentiate between the two. Too samey.



Yeah, forced culture. A bunch of councillors didn't get together one day and say 'let's build the Cornerhouse.' It grew naturally, took a prominent seat on a busy artery and crossroads, improved its facilities, and flourished. People can defend the area before it's built, but First Street is a pretty bland shite part of Manchester, and I recon it'll remain so even after a couple of middling buildings have been constructed. The current cafe/bar also has a majority of its custom through its large footfall, something that First Street will never, ever have. Combined, its geographically and sociologically impossible. Come at me.:)

It's simple.

It's no longer fit for purpose. It's outgrown itself. And believe me, when the chattering classes see that steel and glass(will it be?) gleeming under the grey skies they will love it.

I think we need to take a deep breath and give Mecanoo a chance. http://www.mecanoo.nl/projects/location/tabid/87/language/en-US/Default.aspx

As for First Street. 50 yards down Whitworth Street West is hardly going to put people off going there.

As I've already stated, the Cornerhouse will be retained in some shape or form. The cafe will always be busy due to it's location. As for the rest of the building, why not an exhibition space, performance space, or....?

PS. The Son of Urbis?

Ohhhh.Now I like that idea Jerb.....Son of Urbis.I think that would be an ideal place/building.Fantastic idea!!!

Ohhhh.Now I like that idea Jerb.....Son of Urbis.I think that would be an ideal place/building.Fantastic idea!!!

+1

Get rid of the building with Screen 1 in it at and fashion a fantastic futuristic new entrance to Oxford Road station, but certainly keep the Cornerhouse building as it in terms of bar/food/shop. Maybe convert the downstairs into a new exhibition space and expand the food offering into the 2nd floor.

If it turns into another supermarket, I'm instigating a week of rioting.

Best,
Slip

+1

Get rid of the building with Screen 1 in it at and fashion a fantastic futuristic new entrance to Oxford Road station, but certainly keep the Cornerhouse building as it in terms of bar/food/shop. Maybe convert the downstairs into a new exhibition space and expand the food offering into the 2nd floor.

If it turns into another supermarket, I'm instigating a week of rioting.

Best,
Slip

http://memedepot.com/uploads/0/207_not_sure_if_serious.jpg

Given the temperamental nature of bars and clubs and it's fusible levels of profit, surely it would be a silly move to close the corner house bar if it makes money. It already has (gulp) a strong brand identity and an excellent position.

There again I can see it being another tescocoopstarcostastarbucksnero
Ladbrookesfreddonesubwaymacdonaldswetherspoons though.

As for first. I managed to time the walk between there and the cornerhouse in five minutes when my back injury was causing my grief earlier this year. It is not as great a distance as you may imagine.

I think the losses of the green room is more significant I would say.

Can't believe people want rid of this...
http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Travel/Late_offers/pictures/2010/10/8/1286534982888/Cornerhouse-cinema-Manche-001.jpg

In favor of a replacement that will be along the lines of this
http://www.hunterplastics.co.uk/uploads/gfx/620.jpg

I hope Mecanoo give us something like the La Llotja theatre and conference centre in Lleida, Spain

http://memedepot.com/uploads/0/207_not_sure_if_serious.jpg

:D

Keep the façade on the corner, but the building behind it can go surely? Something muted and (hobviously) in keeping with the rest of the station

Best,
Slip

With a budget of 14m surely it will be more Fact Liverpool than Urbis. Urbis was 32m when it opened I think. And the site, I know it's only five minutes from Oxford Rd but that's just Manchester for you, you can be in one of the most metropolitan places in England and then "50 yards" walk takes you to basically an out of town regeneration spot. I understand why the council feel the need to be propping up first street, but in doing so, in my view, they're just gonna dilute something else. Something genuine for something a bit.. ?

What do we think would have happened if this idea didn't come forward, would the Cornerhouse have gone under?

I'm firmly in the same camp as Seasonedbest and Kids here, I hate HATE this whole idea of moving The Cornerhouse to effin First St. I keep telling myself it's not really going to happen, but I know it is.

It's depressing.

And yeah it's more than likely gonna be replaced with some awful chain affair.

So depressing.

Especially when it doesn't even NEED to move.:bash:

You would imagie that the same team will be operating the Conrerhouse and the same people will still go there whetehr it's Oxford Road, or First St. I certainly imagine myself still going there. It's what it does and how it does it, that makes the Cornerhouse so special and that will not change.

There will just be better facilities, larger facilities = profits enabling better exhibitions, rather than subsidies andsharing with the Library Theatre can surely only be a good thing. The only thing missing in this is a little extra spacwe to allow Green Room to join the party. This is surely the ideal time.

The reason the Green Room will cease to trade is because of the withdrawal of subsidy so it is not inconceivable that cornerhouse would not lose their own and then what?

Onwards and upwards I say. Yes Cornerhouse started organically and now it's about to grow up and wear some now clothes so to speak.

As for the current building, I really do hope it stays and if it does end up being a Co-op, is that such a bad thing outside our third station (notwithstanding the fact that sainsbury is just across the road)?

What do we think would have happened if this idea didn't come forward, would the Cornerhouse have gone under?I don't think so, but some serious scaling back may have been in order.

Read this post (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=67850657&postcount=55) again. Of course it needs to move. The current site has always been inadequate for cinema, if there is any way of keeping on the cafe/shop that would be great but I can't see there being the funds to keep two sites running.

I like the idea that something that in 1984 was a disused furniture store and 'dirty mac' cinema is now an 'historic' site. Does anyone remember when the Aaben in Hulme was the only place in town to see art house films? Now there was a place!

I've never said that I don't think it needs moving. There are other options - Odeon being the obvious one. Problem is this doesn't fit into the council's vision of monolithic empty office buildings.

I've never said that I don't think it needs moving. There are other options - Odeon being the obvious one. Problem is this doesn't fit into the council's vision of monolithic empty office buildings.

^^

Odeon owners get three more years

EXCLUSIVE: Oxford Street relic given extended planning permission

Published on September 28th 2010.

The owners of the former Odeon cinema on Oxford Street in Manchester have been given another three years to develop the site.

Some buildings in the city centre are starting to look like a bit of an eyesore and that’s one of them. It would be nice to see it restored and brought back into use. It’s part of Manchester’s history.
Manchester and Metropolitan Properties has had a renewal of planning permission granted by the city council yesterday, which gives the firm until February 2013 to work on the unloved building.

The building was first opened in 1930 but has been closed since 2004. Plans had been drawn up to turn the site into a 14-storey office building called The Landmark, but they have never been progressed.

The application for renewal drew 92 objections and a group led by the Manchester Modernists Society held a screening event outside the cinema to rally against its demolition.

City centre councillor Ken Dobson, said he would like to see the building rescued and revived.

“It seems strange to grant another three years when nothing has happened in the last six,” he said. “If the current owners aren’t going to do anything with it, perhaps it should be given to someone else.

“Some buildings in the city centre are starting to look like a bit tired and that’s one of them. It would be nice to see it restored and brought back into use. It’s part of Manchester’s history.

The building next to the former Odeon – Elisabeth House - is set to be demolished and redeveloped by Argent into a Grade A office building and the rest of St Peter’s Square is also set for a facelift.

Manchester and Metropolitan Properties, led by directors Andrew and Jonathan Joseph, recorded net liabilities of £185,000 in its most recent set of filed accounts. Nobody from the firm was available to comment at the time of writing.

Around the same time last year this was announced:

New home for Cornerhouse and Library Theatre in £19m arts centre plan
Exclusive by Deborah Linton

November 24, 2010

Manchester's iconic Cornerhouse cinema is set to move into a new £19m venue as part of a major arts shake-up.

The new building, near the former Hacienda club on Whitworth Street West, will also house the Library Theatre, which has needed a home since moving as part of the town hall redevelopment.

Cornerhouse, which specialise in independent cinema, has faced funding problems but bosses say visitor numbers have shot up by 88 per cent over the past two years.

The venue says it needs more space and will increase the number of screens from three to five in its new home.

The existing Cornerhouse building, on Oxford Road, is likely to become available for redevelopment, although firm plans have not been drawn up.

The new venue could open as early as spring 2014, and will also host a new gallery and outdoor performance space.

Cornerhouse boss Dave Moutrey said it would secure Manchester’s place as a leading culture destination.

He said: "The new facility will give us space to grow, to increase our audience and widen access to contemporary visual art and cinema.

"We’ll be able to create more opportunities for community involvement and to expand our role as a digitally connected producer."

The Library Theatre Company has been seeking a new home since moving out of their historic venue in the basement of Central Library earlier this year.

Artistic director Chris Horner said: "This is terrific news for Manchester audiences and the Library Theatre Company. It will enable the company to develop and expand its work and achieve its aspirations.

"The artistic potential of the collaboration with Cornerhouse is immense."

There had been plans to move the Library Theatre to the historic Theatre Royal, in Peter Street, but work revealed that it would cost too much to transform the listed building, which is currently used as a nightclub.

The new proposals were due to be considered by council chiefs today.

Coun Mike Amesbury said: "Manchester is committed to culture, something we see not as a luxury but as a necessity which creates jobs and other opportunities and is a fundamental part of attracting investors."

And council leader Sir Richard Leese said: "This is exactly the sort of scheme we need to get people into work, get our economy moving even faster, and show the world that Manchester is still an ambitious city."

The new venue will be on land at First Street, between Whitworth Street West and Mancunian Way. Funds for the theatre move are already in place and council papers say the remaining £3m will come from third parties and future town hall income.

The council already has an agreement in place with developers, Ask, who have been working with them on the 20-acre First Street site.

Council officers have also been working with the architects who designed the Bridgewater Hall, although the final look of the building will be decided after a contest.

Just saying like. :shifty:

How do the two sites compare for size? I would have thought the cost of converting the Odeon into something suitable for Cornerhouse AND Library Theatre would be pretty high, to say nothing of the running costs. To get an idea, look at the Theatre Royal proposals for the Library Theatre.

To me, moving to there would just be moving the existing problems to another site - one that's possibly not big enough anyway.

The Odeon has 7 screens. They're after 5 screens at First street. So that would leave two theatres for the LTC/other things. What problems do you imagine a cinema would have in a purpose-built cinema perfect for their size? And do you think redevelopment would cost more than £14-19 million?

Sorry to bring you down to earth kids and MF, but the idea of Cornerhouse moving to the old Odeon came up when the move was first announced - part of the conditions of sale of the Odeon building was that there is a covenant that the building can't be re-opened as a cinema or for other entertainment purposes, to prevent it being in competition with their new site at the Printworks. I will not hesitate to say this: CUNTS.



After the initial complaints and concerns from certain sections of Manchester's chattering classes, the silence is deafening. Thankfully.

Bit of a strange thing to say - what would you expect people to say for months on end, after the complaints were made? What's this about chattering classes as well? Do we really need to invoke misplaced inverted snobbery in this debate? :(

Bit of a strange thing to say - would you expect people to keep saying the same thing over and over again?

You just need to reread this thread. Fast forward to yesterday and today. It's going to happen. There's no point in lamenting the values of the Cornerhouse. It won't change a thing.

Time to move on, except the new venue, and hope the Cornerhouse is retained in some shape or form.

I really don't understand what you're getting at. Nevermind.

I think it's a shame that Cornerhouse has to move, and I really hope that the new location allows it to flourish. I just don't have a good feeling about it. It seems too much of a compromise for me to get totally behind it. Time will tell.

But as I said before, if the location means you don't have to squash into a five-foot square with four other blokes for a piss after a film, that might make the move worthwhile.

You just need to reread this thread. Fast forward to yesterday and today. It's going to happen. There's no point in lamenting the values of the Cornerhouse. It won't change a thing.

Time to move on, except the new venue, and hope the Cornerhouse is retained in some shape or form.

I'm not gonna shut up jrb. I think it's possible to change these things. Unfortunately my motivation to do real things is non-existant. I'll probably just email people at the most.

The covenant thing could be over-turned couldn't it? Yeah totally cuntish though. Does anyone know who owns the First Street site - is it that Ask are letting the council build their art centre on it or are Ask developing the Council's land? I.E. Would it be possible to do the same thing at BBC North H.Q. on Oxford Road with the Property Ventures Fund. The developer involvement/moving of the Cornerhouse would be much easier to swallow in this instance.

.......Problem is this doesn't fit into the council's vision of monolithic empty office buildings.

I'm not so sure that that is fair. Isn't there something of a pending shortage of Grade A offices?

I think it's more a case of The Odeon being more prime and very central, therefore more likely to attract private investment, whereas the Cornerhouse/Library Theatre project will infact help to regenerate First street and further stimulate private investment.

Being right at the Whitworth St end of First St, this is literally across from Manchester Central tram stop, so should really stimulate this area, without being out on a limb itself. Spinningfields has been criticised by some for being sterile and bland. Something like this in Spinnigfields would work a treat, not that I'm suggesting that this project should be moved there, but the People's History Museum extension and John Rylands Library has worked well there. Pity the Frank Cohen Gallery concept never came to anything.

Aye. Apparently there might be a shortage in 2012. Should have said "speculative office buildings." Point still stands though.

Being right at the Whitworth St end of First St, this is literally across from Manchester Central tram stop, so should really stimulate this area, without being out on a limb itself. Spinningfields has been criticised by some for being sterile and bland. Something like this in Spinnigfields would work a treat, not that I'm suggesting that this project should be moved there, but the People's History Museum extension and John Rylands Library has worked well there.

So glad there's more debate raised on this one. It really does seem to divide opinion. Whether that's to do with Cornerhouse current user ship, I don't know.

As I said earlier, the CH is on Oxford Street, a massively busy road, made even busier by a train station, 2 universities, a multitude of bus stops, a theatre, a hotel, offices, coffee shops, bars, restaurants and so on. The footfall on this road is immense, unlike any road heading out of the town centre. This is the lollypop stick to Manchester's lolly. Spinningfields for all its modernity is out of the question, and so is First Street. Yes, its move to First Street wouldn't stop me from making a special visit to see the latest indy movie, but it may stop the many spontaneous visitors who stop off for a coffee on Oxford Street and decide, while they're there to watch a film or go and glance at the art on display.

You're also underestimating that the CH, from my experience, is a huge meeting place for people from the train station, and pre-drinks for the palace theatre. I, like most here, want to see a new shiny development, but not something that replaces an institution that sits in one of the most prominent positions in the entire city, and one which offers a cinema-going experience that nothing else in Manchester offers. Call the new development the Cornerhouse, but please let the old dear remain, for christs sake.

Kids you sound like me on the u---s question. Of which even I have become bored with. no really bored.

At the heart of this, we just don't trust Ask or MCC to do the right thing. It will happen, but you look at experience and think the worse.

Think u---s and you get Stanley Matthews jock strap, think Piccadilly gardens and you get that wall. Now think first avenue and we imagine the print works with ciabattas. A concrete bunker with something odd like that metal rash that appears to have grown on the side of afflecks.

The rush of cars as edgy theatre goers nervously escape the real street theatre of intimidating single gloved hoody youth circling on mountain bikes outside the fast food venues.

It needs a revived b of the bang to top the avenue off and probably top off a student, freshly harpooned by a steel rod after watching some depardieu film.

Now that is drama.


How about this for that FC united ground at firstbus avenue and the corner house moving to the urbis? The odeon as the new Library theatre. And e NFM somewhere at sportscity. And the corner house bar remaining where it is, earning MCC and whoever monies. Too sensible by far, though I am being sarky again.

And as for the odeon, why do I think it's another fire station in the making?

I'm not gonna shut up jrb. I think it's possible to change these things. Unfortunately my motivation to do real things is non-existant. I'll probably just email people at the most.

The covenant thing could be over-turned couldn't it? Yeah totally cuntish though. Does anyone know who owns the First Street site - is it that Ask are letting the council build their art centre on it or are Ask developing the Council's land? I.E. Would it be possible to do the same thing at BBC North H.Q. on Oxford Road with the Property Ventures Fund. The developer involvement/moving of the Cornerhouse would be much easier to swallow in this instance.

Not at all Kids.

I don't want to shut you up.

You're entitled to your opinions and views.

I fully understand your personal feelings towards the Cornerhouse and what it offers. It's very personal to some people.

Feel free.

Unfortunately as a person I'm pretty cynical and cold hearted when it comes to matters like this.

The Cornerhouse has served it's purpose. However, it's time to move on to pastures new.

Reagrdless of the 'real' reasons for the move, it's now time to embrace the new venue and see it as a positive addition, rather than something that ultimately led to the death of the Cornerhouse.

There's no turning back I'm affraid.

Kids you sound like me on the u---s question. Of which even I have become bored with. no really bored.

At the heart of this, we just don't trust Ask or MCC to do the right thing. It will happen, but you look at experience and think the worse.

Think u---s and you get Stanley Matthews jock strap, think Piccadilly gardens and you get that wall. Now think first avenue and we imagine the print works with ciabattas. A concrete bunker with something odd like that metal rash that appears to have grown on the side of afflecks.

The rush of cars as edgy theatre goers nervously escape the real street theatre of intimidating single gloved hoody youth circling on mountain bikes outside the fast food venues.

It needs a revived b of the bang to top the avenue off and probably top off a student, freshly harpooned by a steel rod after watching some depardieu film.

Now that is drama.


How about this for that FC united ground at firstbus avenue and the corner house moving to the urbis? The odeon as the new Library theatre. And e NFM somewhere at sportscity. And the corner house bar remaining where it is, earning MCC and whoever monies. Too sensible by far, though I am being sarky again.

And as for the odeon, why do I think it's another fire station in the making?

The Longford failed to get it listed and so the council have approved its demolition. And now extended that approval for a company that appear to have never built anything. They'll probably demolish it before they liquidate in 2012 and we'll be left with an empty site right in the heart of the city for years to come and a beautiful cinema gone. I don't think my ideas are much more nuts than this.

The Longford failed to get it listed and so the council have approved its demolition. And now extended that approval for a company that appear to have never built anything. They'll probably demolish it before they liquidate in 2012 and we'll be left with an empty site right in the heart of the city for years to come and a beautiful cinema gone. I don't think my ideas are much more nuts than this.

...the Cornerhouse is a coop. The BBC site another hotel. Whilst Frank Cohen twiddles his thumbs. This is dream stuff!

Manchester Confidential.

Design Team Appointed For New Cornerhouse Building
Library Theatre will also be based in new £19m home

A DESIGN team has been appointed for the new £19m city council cultural facility based on First Street.

"This building will be an engine-room to produce all kinds of new things in art, theatre, and film, and to foster a multitude of creative collaborations. It'll be a great resource for the city."

The Cornerhouse and the Library Theatre Company will both be based in the new £19m building on the northern side of First Street.

Architects Mecanoo, whose other profile projects also include Manchester’s Co-operative Quarter, will lead the design team. Mecanoo has also designed arts venues including the Wei-Wu-Ying Center for the Arts in Taiwan and the Shenzen Cultural Complex in China.

The team also includes two practices with presences in Manchester - Buro Happold, multi-disciplinary engineers, and quantity surveyors and design manager Davis Langdon (AECOM), plus theatre planners theatreadvies bv.

Councillor Mike Amesbury, executive member for culture and leisure for Manchester City Council, said: "This appointment demonstrates Manchester’s commitment to world-class arts, which is also shown by high profile events such as Manchester International Festival.

"At a time when the arts world is facing severe cuts, this is a tremendous opportunity which will help support and attract jobs as well as creating a leading cultural attraction.We see the arts as a key ingredient in the mix which attracts investors and visitors to our city."

Dave Moutrey, director and chief executive of Cornerhouse, said: "The appointment of the design team is a significant milestone for the project. Mecanoo’s submission really captured the vision we have for a flexible, vibrant, welcoming cultural space with a great social atmosphere. They also really understand the importance of consultation and engaging our audiences as a key part of the design process."

Chris Honer, artistic director of the Library Theatre Company, said: "This building will be an engine-room to produce all kinds of new things in art, theatre, and film, and to foster a multitude of creative collaborations. It'll be a great resource for the city."

Detailed design work will now begin with a view to starting on site in summer 2012. It is anticipated the new facility will open in spring 2014.

We had a choice between an early night in kreuzberg or a later one in the mitte, so whilst I wait for the 1.55 metres of Irish feminine joy to get ready I will say that I took sheds of pictures of various modernist structures in Berlin that I'd hope would inspire what the neu kornerhaus would look like. Or that like that shed in west bromwich. So back to waiting for her and flicking between some german music channel and tvp polonia.

I don't think I've seen these images posted here before...

http://www.rhwl.co.uk/artsteam/Sketchbook/sketchbookviewer.aspx?id=16

'First Street Cultural Centre, Manchester'

http://www.rhwl.co.uk/artsteam/Sketchbook/firstStreetCultural/firstStreetCultural.1.jpg

http://www.rhwl.co.uk/artsteam/Sketchbook/firstStreetCultural/firstStreetCultural.2.jpg

http://www.rhwl.co.uk/artsteam/Sketchbook/firstStreetCultural/firstStreetCultural.3.jpg

http://www.rhwl.co.uk/artsteam/Sketchbook/firstStreetCultural/firstStreetCultural.4.jpg

Yes, Andy Warhol, one of Manchesters most famous sons.

Looks like this is the shape they're going for. Scandinavian drab maybe.
http://www.rhwl.co.uk/artsteam/Sketchbook/firstStreetCultural/firstStreetCultural.11.jpg

*cringe* @ Warhol. Via Nico?? Tenuous.


http://www.rhwl.co.uk/artsteam/Sketchbook/firstStreetCultural/firstStreetCultural.3.jpg

equals

http://www.durapipe.co.uk/Images/News/Manchester%20appts.jpg

meets

http://www.phm.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/Peoples-History-Museum.jpg

meets

http://belowblueskies.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/ikea354x354.jpg?w=354&h=354

EDIT: Needs some curves but maybe they're too expensive.

^^ I wouldn't lose any sleep over that. I'm assuming that's one of the failed proposals (Meccanoo got the winning bid) and 'Andy Warhol' is probably no more meaningful than 'Signage' on a retail proposal ;)

Nico lived in Stalybridge, prestwich and broughton of all places apparently.

Which Obviously are in Manchester if it's art and not if it's football.

Shed yes. Failed most likely.

Good find.

Guessing. Finished proposal still way off yet. No doubt the design/proposal will be reevaluated and changed many more times before it's finally made public.

However, I'm looking forward to seeing what those crazy Dutch will come up with.

We need colours like these..........

http://www.amsterdam-hotel.it/web/images/amsterdam/red_light_distric_amsterdam_2.jpg

breaking through on to Whitworth Street West, which will attract the wondering Mancunian and lost tourist.

Jrb!!?!

Perhaps the northern quarter if itvever wished to attract erm alternative tourism, but mot whit worth street.

Jrb!!?!

Perhaps the northern quarter if itvever wished to attract erm alternative tourism, but mot whit worth street.

I was trying to push em down that end. Deansgate Locks is a bit deserted these days, and I was hoping the signs of extra footfall would tempt the developers of Axis to start construction once again.

Image from Mecanoo website give an idea of the massing and a clue as to the shape of what they have in mind. Note the buliding in relation to the viaduct and One First St and also the height in comparison to 1FS and Hacienda:

http://www.architectenweb.nl/bin/news/206738.jpg

Press release:

http://www.mecanoo.nl/media/news/item/tabid/217/DetailId/252/img/artsvenue/language/nl-NL/Default.aspx

I do hope that the on site bar has some sort of outside seating area - for a city that goes all out when the sun shines, there is a notable lack of decent bars with south/west facing outdoor areas for a pint after work.

Best,
Slip

A box on a box on a box. I hope everyone likes boxes.

So this then, or similar.
http://www.walkingpaper.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/dzn_Library-of-Birmingham-by-Mecanoo-granted-planning-permission-3.jpg

A box on a box on a box. I hope everyone likes boxes.

:lol:

A box on a box on a box. I hope everyone likes boxes.

So this then, or similar.
http://www.walkingpaper.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/dzn_Library-of-Birmingham-by-Mecanoo-granted-planning-permission-3.jpg

Pray tell which citadel of Stalinist Europe is that from? I guess brum library?

It says: "in the second decade of the century, they gave up. "

It's a pretty handy shaped building when - judging by MCC record - it gets converted into a Disney shop or a museum of soaps in a decade time.

Yes, with cladding influenced by a Bengali tissue box cover
http://ebid.s3.amazonaws.com/upload_big/3/0/7/1271378165-30622-0.jpg
life could be worse

National Curry Museum NCM. Opening in 2023...........

Yes, with cladding influenced by a Bengali tissue box cover
http://ebid.s3.amazonaws.com/upload_big/3/0/7/1271378165-30622-0.jpg
life could be worse


Great post

column francine houben in the financieele dagblad
22.08.2011
On Monday 25 July 2011 I went to Manchester for a meeting. On the agenda was the new Arts Centre, still at the planning stage. The city council is working in conjunction with property developers on First Street – a strategically located area close to the city centre, with railway stations at walking distance and easy access by bus and car.

Manchester is a city with a glorious industrial past. The region has however suffered heavy pollution due to the factories that operated there in the past. A number of superb industrial buildings recall this period. Recently a great deal of money and resources have been invested to reduce soil pollution here. For many years Manchester has worked successfully to revitalize its inner city.

In terms of population Birmingham is England’s second city, but economically speaking Manchester occupies that place. It has a vibrant city centre with monumental historical buildings and high-quality shops. Parallel to the area to be developed and at a short distance, is Oxford Street, a long street with plenty of buses. It is the cultural corridor of Manchester, the street where all the theatres, cinemas, museums and art galleries are concentrated, not to mention two universities with roughly 70,000 students. The First Street development aims to relate to these major players.

The market partners intend to develop student housing and flats, a supermarket, offices, hotels, garages, restaurants and cafés. The council has been given a plot of land for nothing by the developers to build the Arts Centre with cinema and theatre auditoriums and gallery spaces, which should help boost the area considerably. An urban masterplan has been drawn up for the area, one that differs from those in the Netherlands, in that the most important requirement of an English masterplan is that it needs to be flexible. Economic opportunities, that is, the state of the market, will eventually decide how the plan is developed in practice. And in the unlikely event that this should lead to a series of planning issues, that is ‘all in the game.’

For an architect from the Netherlands, accustomed to working with the ‘polder’ model, or consensus approach, in ’public-private partnerships’, this takes a bit of getting used to. In the Netherlands the normal practice is for a masterplan to be developed under the supervision of the municipality, which in turn is translated into a detailed zoning plan. The typical Dutch ‘polder’ model – a catchphrase term of the nineties for the consensus model adopted in politics and public life – which has booked considerable success, in particular because the mutual compatibility of the buildings and the quality of the public domain for the city was given a great deal of attention.

In the recent economic downturn however, a problematic aspect has also surfaced – masterplans that are too detailed and zoning plans that are not sufficiently flexible and often no longer economically viable. A number of local authorities in the Netherlands are confronted with this issue. The challenge in working in the United Kingdom is of a completely different order. There it is not the local authority but the market that decides. And owning your own land has for years been considered the greatest blessing one can have. Anyone on the street who takes a good look at the ‘coding’ in the road surfaces can see where the property lines are drawn.

Achieving a consensus model with one’s market partners to end up with a plan that makes everyone happy has proved a valuable tradition for Dutch cities in recent years. We are also trying to introduce something of this Dutch approach in Manchester. I don’t yet know whether the typical Anglo-Saxon tradition, where it is ultimately the market that decides, would mean the desired breakthrough in area development in the Netherlands in the present economic situation. The market is often only interested in the short term, while sustainable quality usually requires a more distant horizon.

Francine Houben
Het Financieele Dagblad
8 August 2011

http://www.mecanoo.nl/tabid/217/DetailId/262/Column-Francine-Houben-in-the-Financieele-Dagblad.aspx?img=Manchesterplein

This looks amazing in Taiwan. From Mecanoo. One of these please, somewhere.
http://www.mecanoo.nl/DesktopModules/Bring2mind/DMX/Addons/MecanooImageDB/GetImage.ashx?img=11627&w=918&h=610&t=normal&c=false
http://www.mecanoo.nl/DesktopModules/Bring2mind/DMX/Addons/MecanooImageDB/GetImage.ashx?img=11627&w=918&h=610&t=normal&c=false

unlikely

^I know, but at least it gives a idea of what the agency are capable of (great designs) instead of the Birmingham Library.

True they do have some nice buildings in their portfolio, fingers crossed we get something worthy of the hype :)

So hopefully should the Cornerhouse lose some of it's soul as some fear it might with this proposed move, the Black Lion (and King's Arms) will hopefully be there to pick up the pieces:

http://www.manchesterconfidential.co.uk/News/Black-Lion-Reopens-With-Its-Own-Cinema

THE BLACK LION pub on Chapel Street in Salford will be reopen this month and the people behind its launch have some big plans.

The 130-year-old pub, which closed last year, will become a self-funding café, pub, live music venue and cinema.

“It’s cool, but a little rough around the edges, which makes it more interesting."
The idea is that by day, the pub will be a mix of locals and freelancers with laptops and sipping coffee. By night, the upstairs space will host live music and bring the latest in British cinema to thinking adults.

The project is being steered by three partners - landlord Barry Phillips, and Future Artists founders Jenny Inchbald and Mark Ashmore.

The trio have ambitions of making the Black Lion the UK’s first Internet Protocol Cinema – where films will be streamed to audiences in the pub on a big screen, via an online host. Inchbald claims this means almost no printing costs for the filmmaker, and this saving can then be passed onto the punters.

“We want to give people a sense of ownerships over cinema,” she said. “We feel as there’s a market out there for people who aren’t getting the choices they want from the multiplex.

"You've got the Cornerhouse but they only really show European films. We'll be concentrating on British cinema."


Mark Ashmore and Jenny Inchbald

There will be no public money backing the project – the arts space upstairs is being run as a co-operative and the cinema will rely on ‘plenty of coffee and beer being drunk downstairs’ if the long-term plan of providing a full HD cinema and waitress service upstairs is to be realised.

Inchbald said it would be ‘two months or so’ before enough money is raised to fund their own cinema screen, but in the meantime the pub will rent equipment.

The first screening will be ‘Invisible Circus: No Dress Rehearsal’ – a feature documentary about squatters set in Bristol.

Inchbald believes Chapel Street and the surrounding area has the potential to be “what the Northern Quarter used to be.”

“It’s cool, but a little rough around the edges, which makes it more interesting,” she said. The partners are working with the Save Salford Campaign to try and make the pub a success.

Performance poet John Cooper Clarke has already filmed part of a documentary about his career at the Black Lion and has agreed to return with a stint of gigs once the venue is up and running.

“Do I think it will work?” says Inchbald. “We hope so, but we need people to come and support it by spending money and having a drink.”

Sounds like a brilliant idea, in Newcastle there are several of these small co-op type cinemas (in the Side cinema and star and shadow), that also have gigs and exhibitions. No reason at all it couldn't work in Salford too.

sounds great and I'd love this area to be another nq but isn't this at odds to the nearby gentrification projekt for greengate/chapel street?

Inchbald believes Chapel Street and the surrounding area has the potential to be “what the Northern Quarter used to be.”

Chapel street already is what the Northern Quarter used to be, derelict and empty.

I'd love Chapel Street to be the next Northern Quarter as was, but the layout is not the same. It's covers a larger area and there are less available units. The wasted area around the Lowry separates the Black Lion/Corridor side from the Kings Arms side, and Islington Mill must be a mile from the Black Lion.

Anyway it shouldn't need to be the next NQ. It can have it's own character. It's just too bad Salford has a habit of flattening the old buildings which could house such things.

I'll be visiting the Black Lion when it re-opens though. It sounds great.

Yeah - there's an argument for the kings arms area to be NQ-esque - but there again is a lot of wasteland round there.

Whatever gets built on that won't involve indie bars or cinemas.

Went to see a gig at Islington Mill with a few record industry guys a couple of years ago, it had been snowing so we couldn't get a taxi and were lost up behind chapel street near a block of flats, we asked these kids where it was and they told us they would tell us for £20, when we then walked on they started hurling bricks and stones at us, so we legged it pretty sharpish, a good introduction to Manchester for my 2 mates from London! Turns out it was only around the corner anyway, cheeky scamps.

Mobile crane and a few workers with tripods measuring things out here , looking forward to seeing what were gonna get

looked like they were doing an environmental assessment today. I'm a bit concerned that the spray paint went over the nice path though. I thought that was going to be kept nice and wide. One possibility is an overhang and not the building footprint or even the area needed during construction?!?

Merged Cornerhouse and Library Theatre seek board chair

Thursday 10 November 2011

The search is on for someone to lead the board of the body that will run both Manchester's Cornerhouse cinema and the Library Theatre.

Both venues will be housed at a new £19m block at First Street, a new development off Whitworth Street West in the city.

The building is expected to have up to five cinemas, 6,500 sq ft of contemporary gallery space, a 500-seat theatre and an outdoor performance space as well as a café.

The new venue will open in 2014 but the two organisations will merge in April are are looking for a chair of the board of trustees of the Greater Manchester Arts Centre Ltd.

The ideal candidate will have a "genuine commitment to contemporary visual arts, film and theatre as well as a demonstrable record of success at senior management and/or board level," according to a job ad in The Guardian.

It adds the chair must be "adept at actively supporting fundraising activity", underlining the fragile nature of arts bodies despite - in this case - the financial backing of Manchester City Council for the new building. The council hopes the arts centre will kick-start investment in the First Street scheme.

http://www.how-do.co.uk/north-west-media-news/other-media/merged-cornerhouse-and-library-theatre-seek-board-chair-20111110100955882

Artcle regarding the search for an agency to create the new, merged, Cornerhouse/Library Theatre brand:

http://www.cornerhouse.org/home/home-news/creating-a-new-cultural-brand-for-manchester

How Do.

Ahead of their merger next year, the Cornerhouse and Library Theatre Company are seeking agency support to come up with a name and identity for the new organisation.

Led by Manchester City Council and supported by Marketing Manchester, the group has put together a tender document to create the city’s “new cultural brand.”

Agencies can submit proposals for either one or both of the following areas:

1. A brand strategy and brand name for the new contemporary arts organisation that articulates its artistic vision and core values and is relevant, meaningful and connected with its audiences. Strategy deliverables include the brand story, values, positioning, and personality.
2. A forward thinking, inspirational and ready to implement visual and verbal identity that brings the brand strategy to life. Deliverables include a clear brand brief, style guidelines and templates for collateral, designed to ensure the long-term, consistent implementation and management of the brand.

The closing date for submissions is 12 noon on Friday 16th December. After that, there will be meetings with the longlisted agencies, before a final shortlist is put together. These agencies will be required to put together a presentation on their approach to the project.

The merger goes ahead in April next year and 2 years later, the organisation will move into brand new premises within a 20-acre site on First Street.

Further information is available from Clare Sydney at the Cornerhouse.

Plans on the table. Obscured by a strategically placed cup & saucer.

http://twitter.com/#!/davemoutrey/status/146183376452337666/photo/1

http://p.twimg.com/AgdZAaHCQAATHoB.jpg:large

What’s the calculator for? Performance bonuses? Whatever it is, it looks to have a sloping roof. Standard.

What’s the calculator for?

Value engineering :no:

What’s the calculator for? Performance bonuses? Whatever it is, it looks to have a sloping roof. Standard.

To work out how much budget is left after an agency has been paid to create a name and brand. I am sure the names Library Theatre and Cornerhouse never came from a brand agency so why waste money when times are hard have a staff competition to come up with a name or open it up to the public.

What look like ground testing tripods have been working all over the car park and grassed areas for the last couple of weeks , hopefully this is prep work of some kind for the new theatre .

What’s the calculator for? Performance bonuses? Whatever it is, it looks to have a sloping roof. Standard.

His Mum wouldn't buy him an AppleMac like all the other boys & girls :lol:

A great little video showcasing how the Cornerhouse and the area around it has transformed since it first opened in 1986.

PiaykMfQR-I

Nice, although I was half expecting it to end with a Tescos sign being erected.

Nice, although I was half expecting it to end with a Tescos sign being erected.

Haha I had not seen your post and thought the same or even worse it being a rumbled car park as the video has a pythonesque style about it.

It is going to be a major effort to balance the need for sustainability (especially fiscal) and the mildly alternative nature of the Cornerhouse when it moves.

To work out how much budget is left after an agency has been paid to create a name and brand. I am sure the names Library Theatre and Cornerhouse never came from a brand agency so why waste money when times are hard have a staff competition to come up with a name or open it up to the public.

Yeah, after the thousands they'll pay some chancer to write Art Factory in helvetica.

aRT fAcTOrY


Where's my money?

er
faRT fAcTOrY


On the money?

Might as well give this one a bump.

Received a letter this morning from Ask and the City Council advising us that the proposals for the next stage on the First Street , the Cornerhouse and Library Theatre , 2 hotels and a muli story carpark will be be on view to the public at 1 First St from Weds 11th Jan 9-5 , 12th Jan 9-7 and 13th Jan 9-5 wanting your comments before the final design will be chosen in the new few weeks .

Should be worth a look :)

@davemoutrey (http://twitter.com/#!/davemoutrey/status/156729057474654209)
CABE and Places Matter design review underway

http://p.twimg.com/AizQP1UCMAE_Bk1.jpg:large

Might as well give this one a bump.





http://p.twimg.com/AizQP1UCMAE_Bk1.jpg:large

Cheers nq. Talk about bad timing. Who's that........ blocking the shot of the model.

I'm all for this, but can't we also have a resurrected Urbis. Maybe in a converted mill somewhere?

Cheers nq. Talk about bad timing. Who's that........ blocking the shot of the model.

Well at least we dont have to wait long to see what is being proposed for the Cornerhouse/Library Theatre and the rest of First Street.

Received a letter this morning from Ask and the City Council advising us that the proposals for the next stage on the First Street , the Cornerhouse and Library Theatre , 2 hotels and a muli story carpark will be be on view to the public at 1 First St from Weds 11th Jan 9-5 , 12th Jan 9-7 and 13th Jan 9-5 wanting your comments before the final design will be chosen in the new few weeks .

Should be worth a look :)

Lets hope someone can get down to First Street tomorrow and take a few pictures, I imagine there might be a few articles about it too surely?

I'm all for this, but can't we also have a resurrected Urbis. Maybe in a converted mill somewhere?

GRRR!!! Don't get me started.

Anyway. Deep breaths.

Some familiar faces, although none I can out a name to.

Good find NQ. I have expanded the picture and I spy the artistic impression where the gentleman's hand to pointing to and I swear I see a glass and steel creation with a rounded corner.

Ah! Is that the new Cornerhouse?

I'll nip down with my best mate Mr Sony Point And Shoot

Yes!

It's circular. Great work jrb.

The one that is being pointed to in the above photos has the curved edges but it looks like it will be on a triangle plot, a bit like Chancery Place, but obviously not as tall.

It does look good though, it looks like a use of clear and possibly black or mirrored glass from the small detail that can be gleamed from the photo. Look forward to seeing the proposals in detail tomorrow jrb.

The one that is being pointed to in the above photos has the curved edges but it looks like it will be on a triangle plot, a bit like Chancery Place, but obviously not as tall.

It does look good though, it looks like a use of clear and possibly black or mirrored glass from the small detail that can be gleamed from the photo. Look forward to seeing the proposals in detail tomorrow jrb.

I flange. I'm sure they'll be in PNW, BDNW or in the MEN.

Actually looking again at the design below where the man is pointing I see three impressions. It looks more a cheese wedge and I am going to guess the red and yellow blocks might be theatre or cinema space that is if I transposed the estimated space of those impressions with the external picture above (the one being pointed at.)

I do believe that is Mr Simpson at the back of the room. Then again it could be Tom Baker. Wonder where he parked the Tardis?

Might as well give this one a bump.





http://p.twimg.com/AizQP1UCMAE_Bk1.jpg:large

Well? Nah! Then again. Hmmm. The fetus of the new Birmingham Library.

http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/74/imag2753.jpg

The brie shape is definitely coming through, as HP stated.

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRdA5ZTDgN9jyfQziTDa8Oi4R5wyXOhvB87WPsea1a3552BZloa

There's also a block of Cheddar next to it, with a Mini Baby Bell on top of that.(behind the head of the cheese inspector) At what point does Linda MaCartney become involved?

That's definitely Ian Simpson at the back, with his masterpiece behind him! Clever photography going on there ;)

Jrb, just realised; he actually really does look like Tom Baker :lol:

There's also a block of Cheddar next to it, with a Mini Baby Bell on top of that.(behind the head of the cheese inspector) At what point does Linda MaCartney become involved?
Don’t tell Anthony Worral Thompson.

I still find it hard to accept the current Cornerhouse if off. Not meaning to sound like a naysayer like Required or Longripple etc etc, but whatever its replacement is, it needs to be x100 better to warrant a replacement, so I'm hoping this is awesome.

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Travel/Pix/pictures/2011/8/2/1312293614206/Cornerhouse-Manchester-007.jpg

Edit - Looks as if theres a massive overhang designed into it from the photos. Either I’m psychic or someone has posted a similar concept before in this thread?

That's definitely Ian Simpson at the back, with his masterpiece behind him! Clever photography going on there ;)


haha...... Well spotted!

My interpretation

This is all sounding amazing.


First Street North plans on show

11 Jan 2012, 11:00

http://www.placenorthwest.co.uk/assets/_files/cached/img/402x253.26/jan_12/pnw__1326278164_First_Street_plans.jpg

Spanish hotel group Meliá Hotels International is close to agreeing a deal with Ask Developments for the 208-bed at First Street in central Manchester, it emerged as a public exhibition into the plans opened.

The planning application for the hotel, Cornerhouse and Library Theatre and retail and leisure buildings is due to be submitted on Monday 23 January.

The display showing massing drawings of the scheme but no detailed artist's impressions opened on Wednesday in the reception of 1 First Street and runs until 5pm on Friday 13 January.

There will be drop-in sessions for local businesses and residents between 10am and 2pm and again between 5pm and 7pm where questions can be put to representatives of the project team before the plans are submitted.

The plans on show are for the area known as First Street North and do not address the rest of the site where offices are planned for later phases.

Two applications will be submitted later this month, the first by Ask Developments for:

Plot 1 next to rail bridge and Whitworth Street West - Hotel, 208 rooms
Plot 1a next to Medlock Street - Small scale retail facilities and food and beverages
Plot 3 on existing surface car park - Multi-storey car park, 700 spaces, hotel 110 rooms, and small scale retail facilities and food and beverages
Plot 3a extension at front of 1 First Street - small scale retail facilities and food and beverages uses
New public areas of the highest quality

The second application is by Manchester City Council for:

Plot 2 next to rail bridge and Whitworth Street West opposite 1 First Street - Cultural building for Cornerhouse and Library Theatre Company
Public Realm

There has also been a website launched that carries the same information as the exhibition in 1 First Street.

Pending approval, expected by the end of March, the construction work will begin in autumn 2012 and completion is due in summer 2014.

The design team for the cultural building includes architects Mecanoo alongside engineers, Buro Happold, and quantity surveyor and design manager AECOM.

All parties declined to comment.

http://www.placenorthwest.co.uk/news/archive/10875-first-street-north-plans-on-show.html

All the information from the consulation/exhibtion is online here http://www.firststreetmanchester.com/downloads/First_Street_Development_Proposal.pdf

This is all sounding amazing.
.....
All the information from the consulation/exhibtion is online here http://www.firststreetmanchester.com/downloads/First_Street_Development_Proposal.pdf

Not too happy that it's wedged in between a massive hotel and a multi-story car park, I thought it would be on the site of the proposed large hotel, where it would be much more visible from Medlock St, much in the same way as the Bridgewater Hall. I suspect the building may be more functional than attractive. No eastern access either.

Hangman.

T_ _ _ _ I _ _ _ _ _ S _ _ _ _ _ N _ _ B _ I _ T_ _ P _ _ _ _ _ D _ _ _ _ _

Was that you there today around 3 jerb chatting to that woman about SSC?

H?

those images should not be in the public domain

?

or?

thats iconic, should now be in the papers damn-it

Was that you there today around 3 jerb chatting to that woman about SSC?

Damn!

My covers been blown.:lol:

Can I just add. I wasn't looking my best. Straight from work, etc.

those images should not be in the public domain

?

Oh y_ _!

Mods - Two Threads running on this BTW. Can they be merged?

[QUOTE=flange;87431335]This is all sounding amazing.


Called in to have a look earlier today.
Er...Flange....(adopts Jeremy Paxman tone of voice) with the greatest of respect, you appear to be easily pleased.

What exactly is amazing about a mid range hotel, a multi-storey car park (which appears to be the biggest building from the massing blocks) and a theatre backing on to the railway of undetermined architectural or functional merit? Oh and a few small shops - cue another Tesco Express or whatever.
Never been so underwhelmed in my life.
Such an important gateway to the city centre but it screams 'welcome to mediocrity'
It has absolutely no relationship with the rest of the city centre. At all.

This appears to be set up for people to drive in from the southern suburbs off Princess Parkway, park in the new multi storey, go to the theatre, go back to their car and go home. Great.

I did think about leaving a few comments as invited but then realised, they're submitting planning apps in a couple of weeks - commenting is pointless. It's not a consultation as such, they're just saying this is what you're getting folks.

5 minutes.

You won't be disappointed.

PS. Don't get too excited, you've already seen it, but not this close up. Interesting.

^^nice one.

Mods - Two Threads running on this BTW. Can they be merged?

The other one is for the whole First St project, this was supposedly for just the Cornerhouse project, but I guess now seems to be a 'First Street North' thread.

^^nice one.



The other one is for the whole First St project, this was supposedly for just the Cornerhouse project, but I guess now seems to be a 'First Street North' thread.

Sorry nq, it's not one we all want to see again, but closer. However, these pics hopefully give a different perspective of the proposal. A still flythrough, if you know what I mean?

Firstly I would like to thank the lady(sorry didn't ask you your name) for being so understanding and letting me take the pictures. Sorry I didn't 'ASK' first.

Enjoy. (sorry about the quality, camera phone)

http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/5773/firststreet060.jpg

http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/9503/firststreet061.jpg

http://img850.imageshack.us/img850/2272/firststreet062.jpg

http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/6998/firststreet063.jpg

http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/4408/firststreet064.jpg

http://img846.imageshack.us/img846/1518/firststreet066.jpg

http://img809.imageshack.us/img809/1217/firststreet067.jpg

http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/8665/firststreet068.jpg

http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/4408/firststreet064.jpg

Good work jrb, for a camera phone it is not bad quality indeed, the general massing of the Cornerhouse/Library Theatre block seems alright, a nice substanial block with the curved edges on each corner, it could fit in quite well at First Street.

Cheers.

Does the consultation give nothing away with regards to finishes/cladding, any fine detail? They really are just massing blocks, other than the 'cultural building', which for some reason I was expecting a little more mass, maybe just wasn't expecting the size/proximity of those neighbouring blocks.

Are they both going in as full applications, or just the 'cultural building' one in detail, and the hotels/MSCP/retail as outline?

Any mention of the plans for First Street Central/South/the supermarket?

^^ The two applications are as followed according to news articles and the consultation brochure. http://www.firststreetmanchester.com/downloads/First_Street_Development_Proposal.pdf


Two applications will be submitted later this month, the first by Ask Developments for:

Plot 1 next to rail bridge and Whitworth Street West - Hotel, 208 rooms
Plot 1a next to Medlock Street - Small scale retail facilities and food and beverages
Plot 3 on existing surface car park - Multi-storey car park, 700 spaces, hotel 110 rooms, and small scale retail facilities and food and beverages
Plot 3a extension at front of 1 First Street - small scale retail facilities and food and beverages uses
New public areas of the highest quality
The second application is by Manchester City Council for:
Plot 2 next to rail bridge and Whitworth Street West opposite 1 First Street - Cultural building for Cornerhouse and Library Theatre Company
Public Realm

So one application will be regarding the Cultural Building and Public Realm space, which is being submitted by Manchester City Council. And the other applications being submitted by Ask will be for the two hotels, MSCP, food and retail buildings and public areas. You would think that both would be full applications, as the Cornerhouse/Library Theatre will be be built on what is the existing surface car park for No 1 First Street.

I would have taken more pictures but my phone battery died. :nuts:

Oh! The people in the know, Mr Simpson, Mr Ask, etc, are at No1 First Street tomorrow. So If you have any question about the proposal, nip down and I'm sure they'll oblige.

Already loving the thought of the huge main entrance off Whitworth Street and the overhang.

http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/8665/firststreet068.jpg

http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/4408/firststreet064.jpg

Might as well give this one a bump.

http://p.twimg.com/AizQP1UCMAE_Bk1.jpg:large

It looks like the renders being pointed to in the above photo could be this view?

Already loving the thought of the huge main entrance off Whitworth Street and the overhang.

http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/4408/firststreet064.jpg

Chets Mk2! :lol:

You would think that both would be full applications, as the Cornerhouse/Library Theatre will be be built on what is the existing surface car park for No 1 First Street.

I guess so, they will need that parking. Timing in that doc does suggests coming on site at the same time, just the lack of details now that's strange.
Subject to planning consent being obtained, we will target start on site in autumn 2012 and that each building will be completed and operational by summer 2014.

How are they going to differentiate those hotels, different class?, budget & the other more boutique/mid-market, don't really know about the Meliá group. Travelodge going in that 110 bed MSCP block, with their 100 bed requirement (http://www.travelodgedevelopment.co.uk/thl_website/image_gallery/general/TLL%20NB.pdf)?

They can't surely be planning any further hotels in that hybrid First St South development.

I'm disappointed that they don't seem to be incorporating the railway arches into the entrance for the new Cornerhouse building - thought this was the plan.

Mods - Two Threads running on this BTW. Can they be merged?

[QUOTE=flange;87431335]This is all sounding amazing.


Called in to have a look earlier today.
Er...Flange....(adopts Jeremy Paxman tone of voice) with the greatest of respect, you appear to be easily pleased.

What exactly is amazing about a mid range hotel, a multi-storey car park (which appears to be the biggest building from the massing blocks) and a theatre backing on to the railway of undetermined architectural or functional merit? Oh and a few small shops - cue another Tesco Express or whatever.
Never been so underwhelmed in my life.
Such an important gateway to the city centre but it screams 'welcome to mediocrity'
It has absolutely no relationship with the rest of the city centre. At all.

This appears to be set up for people to drive in from the southern suburbs off Princess Parkway, park in the new multi storey, go to the theatre, go back to their car and go home. Great.

I did think about leaving a few comments as invited but then realised, they're submitting planning apps in a couple of weeks - commenting is pointless. It's not a consultation as such, they're just saying this is what you're getting folks.

A bit like Pilsworth.

Just opening the arches up?

http://i42.tinypic.com/20adyds.jpg

http://i40.tinypic.com/dfk9hs.jpg
http://g.co/maps/n88nv

Edit: Ah, those highlighted arches are already open.

Damn!

My covers been blown.:lol:

Can I just add. I wasn't looking my best. Straight from work, etc.

Couldn’t tell. Thought you’d be older for some reason. :)

To be honest, the plans for me just reinforce my initial reservations. Without even seeing the final design for the Cornerhouse, the positioning and the surrounding buildings, as already stated, seems to go against how the Cornerhouse works - A cafe and galleries relying on foot-fall and an independent cinema relying on Manchester students and residents. The new building looks trapped between two buildings that are twice the size. Its main aspect (the overhang) faces the council, number one bland office block in Manchester, with an outdoor seating area that serves???? It’s no longer a meeting place for people travelling to/from Oxford Road Station, and no longer somewhere you can ‘pop in’ for a coffee as its well away from anything. Tell me I’m wrong.

Can see the theatre on there (I assume that's what it is), but are the screens above it?

Couldn’t tell. Thought you’d be older for some reason. :)

To be honest, the plans for me just reinforce my initial reservations. Without even seeing the final design for the Cornerhouse, the positioning and the surrounding buildings, as already stated, seems to go against how the Cornerhouse works - A cafe and galleries relying on foot-fall and an independent cinema relying on Manchester students and residents. The new building looks trapped between two buildings that are twice times the size. Its main aspect (the overhang) faces the council, number one bland office block in Manchester, with an outdoor seating area that serves???? It’s no longer a meeting place for people travelling to/from Oxford Road Station, and no longer somewhere you can ‘pop in’ for a coffee as its well away from anything. Tell me I’m wrong.

I am, but I just don't look it, :colgate: (only jesting)

Holding fire until I see the detailed renders clearly.

Couldn’t tell. Thought you’d be older for some reason. :)

To be honest, the plans for me just reinforce my initial reservations. Without even seeing the final design for the Cornerhouse, the positioning and the surrounding buildings, as already stated, seems to go against how the Cornerhouse works - A cafe and galleries relying on foot-fall and an independent cinema relying on Manchester students and residents. The new building looks trapped between two buildings that are twice times the size. Its main aspect (the overhang) faces the council, number one bland office block in Manchester, with an outdoor seating area that serves???? It’s no longer a meeting place for people travelling to/from Oxford Road Station, and no longer somewhere you can ‘pop in’ for a coffee as its well away from anything. Tell me I’m wrong.


Yeah my reservations too, although like Prince Jrb, I will await final assessment when the Fuller figure plans are abound.

Gut feelings. Too, way too much mass. I had expected at worse an out of town shed park with a
Tescos, Pizza Hut, roaming da yuff on dem bikes looking leery and an Manchester rendition of the Waterside in Sale, but not a new Spinningfields.

Ah get it wrong and in ten years it will either another Odeon showing Kevin James films or another bloody football "museum," with a constant fart smell of fried pizzas and boiled steaks.

I'm a little less enthusiastic about this than I'd like to be. I don't have a problem with the budget hotels on First Street, or even the multi-storey car park as long as there's street level activity. However I'm very unimpressed that the theatre is overshadowed by the surrounding buildings. If they want to attract people this far off the beaten track then it needs to be noticeable, and it doesn't look like it will be.

Anyway I'm going to head down and have a look this afternoon, so maybe when I've seen the massing models etc. myself I'll have a better idea.

Seasonedbest
A bit like Pilsworth.[/QUOTE]

:? What does that mean?

Actually on reflection, the thing that puzzles me most about this, having taken the trouble to go and look, is the absolute absence of detail. Just 'masterplan' type plans and massing blocks for the model.
Considering they intend to apply for planning in a couple of weeks, they either need to get cracking or they aren't sharing what they have for some reason.

:? What does that mean?

Actually on reflection, the thing that puzzles me most about this, having taken the trouble to go and look, is the absolute absence of detail. Just 'masterplan' type plans and massing blocks for the model.
Considering they intend to apply for planning in a couple of weeks, they either need to get cracking or they aren't sharing what they have for some reason.

Someone was saying that it seems to be set up for the 'out of towners' to drive to rather than serve the city centre, which on the base of it, looks to be the case. Hence, like Pilsworth. A cinema and food places and a carpark. I’m all for a lovely designed building, but it feels forced and think they are way off the mark with the type and numbers of people they are looking to attract. I have images in my head of bus loads of school kids using the library theatre in the afternoon, a naff noisy restaurant to serve them, and at other times virtually empty as its proximity to anything of any use whatsoever is nonexistent.

I understand they are still trying to ‘create’ a destination, but like Spinningfields, it can work to a certain extent, and on the other hand like the Avenue, completely fail. This will be no Spinningfields however and it is doubtful that this will have a Living Ventures type saviour, but it will be interesting to see what does appear in order to get people down to what is currently a fairly lousy corner of the city. It’ll take a lot more than a hotel, a carpark and a cultural centre.

SB

Oh right, I think we're pretty much in agreement then.

As I've said in other posts, this will only work as an area if it addresses and embraces both the city centre and the Oxford Road corridor. It appears to do neither but it could and should be done.
Those massing blocks I looked at yesterday looked as though they were physically turning their backs on the city.

The big picture needs to be addressed here.
The railway viaduct that runs from Piccadilly to beyond Deansgate has for decades proven an effective barrier to expanding the city centre to the south - other than Oxford Rd itself where it has been integrated into the streetscape. Pretending it isn't a problem, won't make the problem any smaller. It needs to be dealt with and made part of the solution.
The current unattractive nature and desolate feel of Whitworth St also needs to addressed as part of a broader re-generation of this part of town.
Think Miller St / NOMA for a comparator.

Personally I see a huge opportunity for the site - outlined in a post on the other First St thread - but these proposals IMHO risk making the area a permanent lost opportunity.

Your analogy with Spinningfields / The Avenue is apt to the extent that if a much better space, closer integrated to the CC, with better architecture, function and purpose can struggle then I really do share your awful future vision of bus loads of school kids.....

Well I've just been down to look and I'm still not sure what I think. I can kind of see their point in several respects. They're trying to create a destination not for the sake of the cultural centre itself, but to use that to make the area more attractive for the offices. Since the library and the Cornerhouse were looking to move anyway I don't particularly disagree with the city council encouraging/forcing them to do so to its own benefit. I also don't think the location is as bad as is being suggested here (and indeed by one particularly challenging gentleman who was at the exhibition this afternoon). If the area was better integrated into the surrounding city/public transport nodes it would actually be a perfect site, sitting as does between two major interchanges/corridors.

However there are two major caveats to that. The first is that the building won't sit on Whitworth Street itself, but will front onto the Square in front of No.1 First Street. The planner I spoke to told me they wanted to keep the arches open to allow views of the centre, but to my mind direct access through them would be much better. They did explain that doing this would be much more problematic in terms of Network Rail's ownership of the viaduct, but since there are bars, restaurants etc., under the arches already this seems to be evidence an unwillingness to tackle complex problems than of an impossible feat.

My second major problem is more a problem with the whole development, and how it will impact on the cultural facilities. Although I don't believe that Oxford Road is the only place that this could flourish, I do worry about how the wider permeability of this site will impact the centre. While I have no problem with bus loads of kids attending the centre (indeed I like the idea that the outreach activities might actually work) I don't want this to be at a loss of those who already enrich and enjoy the Library/Cornerhouse. The masterplan however is unclear as to how the proposed access improvements are to work, and in some cases is actively cutting the area off from local residents (in particular through cutting off the Newcastle Street pedestrian crossing).

Well I've just been down to look and I'm still not sure what I think. I can kind of see their point in several respects. They're trying to create a destination not for the sake of the cultural centre itself, but to use that to make the area more attractive for the offices. Since the library and the Cornerhouse were looking to move anyway I don't particularly disagree with the city council encouraging/forcing them to do so to its own benefit. I also don't think the location is as bad as is being suggested here (and indeed by one particularly challenging gentleman who was at the exhibition this afternoon). If the area was better integrated into the surrounding city/public transport nodes it would actually be a perfect site, sitting as does between two major interchanges/corridors.

However there are two major caveats to that. The first is that the building won't sit on Whitworth Street itself, but will front onto the Square in front of No.1 First Street. The planner I spoke to told me they wanted to keep the arches open to allow views of the centre, but to my mind direct access through them would be much better. They did explain that doing this would be much more problematic in terms of Network Rail's ownership of the viaduct, but since there are bars, restaurants etc., under the arches already this seems to be evidence an unwillingness to tackle complex problems than of an impossible feat.

My second major problem is more a problem with the whole development, and how it will impact on the cultural facilities. Although I don't believe that Oxford Road is the only place that this could flourish, I do worry about how the wider permeability of this site will impact the centre. While I have no problem with bus loads of kids attending the centre (indeed I like the idea that the outreach activities might actually work) I don't want this to be at a loss of those who already enrich and enjoy the Library/Cornerhouse. The masterplan however is unclear as to how the proposed access improvements are to work, and in some cases is actively cutting the area off from local residents (in particular through cutting off the Newcastle Street pedestrian crossing).

Who was it? Reveal yourself:lol: