This guy wants to talk about genocide but apparently he doesn't know about what has and is happining in his country :lol:
Are you 5? This is not a my country vs your country thread. I do know about the issues in mine, but this thread is about Somalia not Ethiopia. If you didn't want the Somaliland genocide to be discussed, why did you keep arguing about it? I wasn't even addressing it to you.

I have to say the Oasis helped open my eyes on the issues in the HOA.


What are you talking about? IRL, none of this stuff is discussed.

Yeah. The bullets do the talking.

Are you 5? This is not a my country vs your country thread. I do know about the issues in mine, but this thread is about Somalia not Ethiopia. If you didn't want the Somaliland genocide to be discussed, why did you keep arguing about it? I wasn't even addressing it to you.

lol I see someone is upset :lol: You made a point and I responded to it - it makes little difference to whom you addressed it as this is a public forum. Clearly you were trolling as the Somaliland conflict in the 80's has little to do with the topic at had, notwithstanding the thread title. I thought it would be useful for people to know about what is still currently happening in Ethiopia for some perspective on the region and thus I posted some links (which clearly upset you). Though the links seem to have touched a raw nerve, you can just ignore them and proceed with what it is you were doing if you want. Good night.

lol I see someone is upset :lol: You made a point and I responded to it - it makes little difference to whom you addressed it as this is a public forum. Clearly you were trolling as the Somaliland conflict in the 80's has little to do with the topic at had, notwithstanding the thread title. I thought it would be useful for people to know about what is still currently happening in Ethiopia for some perspective on the region and thus I posted some links (which clearly upset you). Though the links seem to have touched a raw nerve, you can just ignore them and proceed with what it is you were doing if you want. Good night.
I made a point about a long civil war, using the Somaliland genocide as an example, it was in relation to discussion in hand. There's no reason for these childish games.

Trust me on this one, there's nothing you can post about Ethiopia that hasn't been posted by some Eritreans or Somalis on these forums.

Without the cuban troops, soviet generals and advisors Somalia did and would have won that war.

Coulda, shoulda, woulda revisionism.

You lost. Your country is in tatters. Ethiopia has one of the world's fastest growing economies, you don't. Ethiopian troops were in Mogadishu 5 years ago, there is no Somali army in Ethiopia.

You need to fix your own problems before trying to spit on others.

Yonii, like I said, you raised the issue of Somaliland conflict in the 80's, I thought it would be useful for people to know about the various Genocides that are still currently happening in Ethiopia (2011) for some perspective on the region and thus I posted some links (on the previous page).

Trust me on this one, there's nothing you can post about Ethiopia that hasn't been posted by some Eritreans or Somalis on these forums.

Well then, why are we discussing Ethiopia in a thread about Somalia.

God this thread has went to the dogs.

Coulda, shoulda, woulda revisionism.

You lost. Your country is in tatters. Ethiopia has one of the world's fastest growing economies, you don't. Ethiopian troops were in Mogadishu 5 years ago, there is no Somali army in Ethiopia.

You're jumping in with your rant a few pages late :lol:

Go do some reading, Somalia had already captured the Ogaden when the Soviet union intervened and sent in thousands of Cuban soldiers as well as soviet advisors on top of military hardware. This is not revisionism but what actually happened and there are various accounts.

No one denied that Somalia lost against the Cuban/soviets. And If Ethiopia now has a growing economy good for them :)

kxqRtmAJcMI


To be precise 11,000 Cuban troops and 1,000 Soviet advisors were flown in:

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=6YAqAAAAIBAJ&sjid=EVgEAAAAIBAJ&pg=6859,3809457&hl=en

What are you talking about? IRL, none of this stuff is discussed.

For example I always wondered why neighbours have not helped resolve Somalia's issues.

Neighbours like Ethiopia recently despite the older issues and conflict that happened


I found out why here among others.

Well then, why are we discussing Ethiopia in a thread about Somalia.

You are quoting me? You're getting more biased by the day man. Why don't you explain to juzme123 what I've tried to do a couple of times now.

For example I always wondered why neighbours have not helped resolve Somalia's issues.

Well they have a vested interest not to do so and many international actors including neighbouring countries have actually directly prolonged the war in Somalia.

You are quoting me? You're getting more biased by the day man.

LOL :lol: that was a quick edit ;) Stop whining.

LOL :lol: that was a quick edit ;) Stop whining.
Who's whining? Listen to your countryman and stay on topic.

Well they have a vested interest not to do so and many international actors including neighbouring countries have actually directly prolonged the war in Somalia.

Nobody has gained from the prolonged war in Somalia.Its always easier to blame everybody else.:ohno:

:)lol someone is getting upset. I apologise to anyone who has been upset by my posts and good night people

:)lol someone is getting upset. I apologise to anyone who has been upset by my posts and good night people

That is what we call a retreat. :)

We already have a war in real life, let's not have one on the internet. :madwife:

You are quoting me? You're getting more biased by the day man. Why don't you explain to juzme123 what I've tried to do a couple of times now.

First time I see you getting mad.:lol:

I read OBJ's memoir.
Little known to you, Oluseun Obasanjo is a veteran of the Congo Crisis. He was in a fire fight against milita men in the eastern province.

either way the international contingent led by nigeria and specifically by a nigerian restored order to Congo, and that was weeks after independence.



http://beegeagle.wordpress.com/2010/12/12/nigerias-best-kept-military-secret-5000-troops-fought-in-angolas-first-civil-war/


Thats a load of bullsh#t... I have not heard anything like this in Angola... I have hard and seen troops from other countries in Angola BUT NEVER Nigerian troop... Your story is false/fake.

First time I see you getting mad.:lol:
Don't get too excited, this is a forum where trolls have lurked around long enough, I've seen and heard it all.

Moderators are supposed to be neutral, that's all.

There's one huge difference though, the divided armies were fighting each other. Civilians, for the most part, were left alone.

Dude, do you really want me to post those nasty stomach-turning articles about the human-rights abuses committed by Derg armies across Ethiopia? Civilians left alone?

In Somalia, you had a president that wanted to wipe an entire clan.

Bullshit, otherwise he would have started with all the high-ranking members of that clan in his government and military, including the ones leading the siege in that region. The Somali National Movement had entrenched themselves within the civilian populations of Hargeisa and Burco. The dictator send several Somali jets to bombard those cities but they deserted with their planes to neighbouring countries, forcing the dictator to hire South African pilots to do the job.

The main objective however was to dislodge the SNM from those cities and recover them, not "wipe out a clan".

Not really, the entire Isaac clan fled to Ethiopia, according to a source Xusein posted yesterday. What do you think would had happened if they stayed? Hugs and forgiveness? Denial, not the first time.

Clearly exaggerated. The Isaaq are one of the largest clans in Somalia and have a population well in the three million, and about 300 000 fled at the time. On a different topic you questioned Somali estimates about the total non-Somali Ethiopians that fled to Somalia, yet take the estimates fleeing towards Ethiopia as "fact"? Hypocrisy, not the first time.

How is famine in Ethiopia related to anything we are discussing here, Mr. Eritrea style arguments, nice.

If you take away the famines from both our countries' civil-wars the death-toll would be significantly lower, since that has always been the number 1 killer, so its most definitely related to the discussion.

Keep laughing, but if a group of people that thought it was OK to kill a child for watching football on TV were to rule my country, I would want to be liberated from them by ANYONE - including Somalis.

LMAO, you really are uninformed about your own country. A regime that kills a few people here and there for watching football is somehow more terrible than a regime that massacres thousands for land and resources benefiting majoritely foreigners?

And all this time you portrayed yourself as anti-Woyane, hmmmm. :)

Don't get too excited, this is a forum where trolls have lurked around long enough, I've seen and heard it all.

Moderators are supposed to be neutral, that's all.

You will never get it mr. yonii, so why waste my time.

You just like to troll like a crazy kid.:ohno:

Coulda, shoulda, woulda revisionism.

You lost.

But not due to Ethiopian forces, indeed it was military forces from the Soviet Empire and Cuba that prevented, as the reporter in the video said; "the total collapse of the Ethiopian empire".

That was the original point, not the red-herrings I'm going to address now:

Your country is in tatters.

Maybe its government, and its capital are, but doesn't it bother you that even in tatters we make significant progress? Imagine the economic boom in peace-time.

Ethiopia has one of the world's fastest growing economies,

That's completely eaten up by an inflation rate of 40.1 percent (http://www.businessweek.com/news/2011-10-13/ethiopia-s-distorted-monetary-plan-needs-reform-imf-says.html) - Bloomberg.

you don't.

1) Somalia has a vibrant telecommunication system, Ethiopia has the lowest mobile penetration rate in Africa.

2) Somalia has more hospitals per capita than Ethiopia

3) Somalia is your biggest export market in Africa. :lol: Egg on your face.

4) Almost of half of Somalia is urbanised, evenly spread across the country, while Ethiopia is majoritely rural.

4) Somalia has four major ports doing bustling trade, Ethiopia is land-locked.

This is a peaceful Ethiopia vs a war-torn Somalia :ohno:

Ethiopian troops were in Mogadishu 5 years ago, there is no Somali army in Ethiopia. You need to fix your own problems before trying to spit on others.

It took Somalia only a few years to become a regional military power that send Ethiopian batallions and brigades packing across the region, do you really want us to fix our problems and run the risk of us doing more than spitting? :)

Thats a load of bullsh#t... I have not heard anything like this in Angola... I have hard and seen troops from other countries in Angola BUT NEVER Nigerian troop... Your story is false/fake.

Nigerian troops have been to numerous African conflicts that you wouldn't even know they were involved in, it is ridiculous.

We were very active in Somalia in the 90s. In this current conflict yes Nigerian troops were there...only a handful though which we sent recently.

The reason why we didn't send much troops was because the UN agreement was not in our best interests and also we have been revamping some of our equipment.

When things change in the future then we might send more troops.

Nigerian troops have been to numerous African conflicts that you wouldn't even know they were involved in, it is ridiculous.

We were very active in Somalia in the 90s. In this current conflict yes Nigerian troops were there...only a handful though which we sent recently.

The reason why we didn't send much troops was because the UN agreement was not in our best interests and also we have been revamping some of our equipment.

When things change in the future then we might send more troops.

Nigerian troops where never in Angola fighting in our conflict.

Don't get too excited, this is a forum where trolls have lurked around long enough, I've seen and heard it all.

Moderators are supposed to be neutral, that's all.

My comment was towards you both.

Anyway, neutrality is impossible for me in this topic since it affects my people and people in this forum are saying ignorant statements without knowing the situation. So I stay here to make sure that the ignorance is addressed and to make sure this thread doesn't fall into insulting flaming like it did on Friday when I was offline most of the day. I assume you would act accordingly if a similar situation happened in your country. The "neutral" thing to do would be get rid of this topic and all political discussions in general (as this is a skyscraper/urban development forum foremost) but if I did that, I would be considered a dictator.

^ Dude, Yonii was just whining and he probably will continue do so after reading your comment. LOL apparenyly you quoting him is a big deal :nuts:

Perhaps but I wanted to set the record straight.

That's completely eaten up by an inflation rate of 40.1 percent (http://www.businessweek.com/news/2011-10-13/ethiopia-s-distorted-monetary-plan-needs-reform-imf-says.html) - Bloomberg.
Ethiopia's real GDP growth rate is among the highest in the world. "Real GDP" corrects for inflation; hence, real GDP growth cannot be eaten up by inflation.

2008 2009 2010 2011*
11.2% 10% 8% 8.5%

Read more: http://www.gfmag.com/gdp-data-country-reports/275-ethiopia-gdp-country-report.html#ixzz1bdA6QHqI
Under Creative Commons License: Attribution Share Alike
Get a FREE subscription to Global Finance magazine : http://www.gfmag.com/subscribe.html


The rest of your post is silly nationalist drivel. Most of Ethiopia's exports go overseas; any exports to Somalia are inconsequential. And we have a reliable port in the form of Djibouti.

You need to work on your own country rather than trying to spit on others. From the standpoint of any neutral observer, your posts look classless, weak, and pathetic.

Have you heard the phrase: "People in glass houses should not throw stones." Don't throw stones; it's classless.

My comment was towards you both.

Anyway, neutrality is impossible for me in this topic since it affects my people and people in this forum are saying ignorant statements without knowing the situation. So I stay here to make sure that the ignorance is addressed and to make sure this thread doesn't fall into insulting flaming like it did on Friday when I was offline most of the day. I assume you would act accordingly if a similar situation happened in your country. The "neutral" thing to do would be get rid of this topic and all political discussions in general (as this is a skyscraper/urban development forum foremost) but if I did that, I would be considered a dictator.
First of all, Somalia is not the only country that's lashed with ignorant statements on these forums. You should never take the Internet too seriously. Second, cleaning ignorant posts and setting trolls straight is obviously good, but all Somali posters aren't exactly angles. Keep your eyes on both sides of the fence.
^ Dude, Yonii was just whining and he probably will continue do so after reading your comment. LOL apparenyly you quoting him is a big deal :nuts:
1. You start trolling about Ethiopia
2. I tell you to stay on topic, which is Somalia

A neutral moderator would had shut You down and obviously not be addressing me when both of us are tell you the same thing. It's not a big deal, it's rather simple.

We can at least try to keep this forum civil, or it will turn out like topix.

Dude are you still whining about a few comments ? LOL ... You started trolling and obviously you couldn't take a few hits back so just Chillax bro ... :lol: But like you said let's stay on topic and let this be the last of it :cheers:

Dude are you still whining about a few comments ? LOL ... You started trolling and obviously you couldn't take a few hits back so just Chillax bro ... :lol: But like you said let's stay on topic and let this be the last of it :cheers:
You're mistaking following rules to whining. I could had continued what you started, adding 20 more pages of trolling to this thread.

:lol: at "couldn't take a few hits". This is an anonymous internet forum, not a war zone, you felt tough after those "hits"? :lol: I'm not wasting more time on you kid.

You're mistaking following rules to whining. I could had continued what you started, adding 20 more pages of trolling to this thread.

:lol: at "couldn't take a few hits". This is an anonymous internet forum, not a war zone, you felt tough after those "hits"? :lol: I'm not wasting more time on you kid.

just relax man and know when someone is taking the mickey :lol:

I think Ethiopia is the most disliked country in Africa by other countries.

I think Ethiopia is the most disliked country in Africa by other countries.
If by other countries you mean Eritrea and Somalia, clearly yes, and I don't necessarily consider that to be a 'bad thing'. :)

I think Ethiopia is the most disliked country in Africa by other countries.

Its Somalis and Eritreans (on the net) that hate Ethiopia, and that is nothing surprising. We have no problem with other civilized, respectful countries.

I think Ethiopia is the most disliked country in Africa by other countries.

Most of Africa seems to admire Ethiopia. It's only Somalis and Eritreans on the web that are always trying to trash-talk.

Ethiopia's real GDP growth rate is among the highest in the world. "Real GDP" corrects for inflation; hence, real GDP growth cannot be eaten up by inflation.

Ofcourse it matters, especially when an Ethiopian civil-servant in 1991 made twice as much as a civil-servant does in 2011 - The shocking truth of “Double Digit Growth” (http://ecadforum.com/ethiopian-news/8825/).

http://ecadforum.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/ethiopian-birr-2010-480x313.jpg?d9c344

The rest of your post is silly nationalist drivel. Most of Ethiopia's exports go overseas; any exports to Somalia are inconsequential.

Inconsequential indeed:

http://www.newbusinessethiopia.com/plugins/content/fboxbot/thumbs/ethexport1_349x229_c89c7a7e899cff803e623bf5ab719655.jpg
Food, beverages and tobacco (SITC sections 0+1) and crude materials (excluding fuels), oils, fats (SITC sections 2+4) accounted for a large part of Ethiopia's exports in 2009: respectively 48.9 and 35.4 percent of exported goods (see table 1). In 2009, China, the Netherlands and Somalia were the top three partners for exports (see table 4). Inedible crude materials (except fuels), animal and vegetable oils, fats and waxes (SITC sections 2+4) accounted respectively for 83.7 and 88.4 percent of exports
to China and the Netherlands. Food, live animals, beverages and tobacco (SITC sections 0+1) accounted for 99.9 percent of exports to Somalia. In addition to coffee,whether or not roasted or decaffeinated (HS code 0901), other important exported products were other oil seeds and oleaginous fruits (HS code 1207) and cut flowers and flower buds of a kind suitable for bouquets (HS code 0603) (see table 3).-Link (http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:4kc0W--GUB0J:comtrade.un.org/pb/FileFetch.aspx%3FdocID%3D3457%26type%3Dcountry%2520pages+ethiopian+exports+to+somalia&hl=en&gl=uk&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESgfaaXwccO_LvXmIVpNYSjcGfDLIlFDDTmvPmD_Zi37hdwl5P2V8eTyG0MopmdXFNaqvkamkZaCH0CoRYBkLFPgyhtxYlVLYdzyyeeh5yudJWv7reYBVwC66a5-bqKZwR0B-86u&sig=AHIEtbR-4csgMR6xx_S2_7vKsxEwyCYy6g)

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSWxlKTNNyS12nZ1aITVmrqqIibIRc-8q-eBQ_EIvqwl1doJdcbkA


And we have a reliable port in the form of Djibouti.

That keeps on charging higher fees with each coming year (http://dalje.com/en-economy/ethiopia--djibouti-port-fees-will-fuel-inflation/214140). Yeah really reliable indeed. :lol:

You need to work on your own country rather than trying to spit on others.

Dummy, have you ever seen me entering the Ethiopian forum and spreading vomit the way you and your likes stalk Somali related topics and spread your verbal diarrhea? Don't get angry because I put you in your place.

From the standpoint of any neutral observer, your posts look classless, weak, and pathetic.

You think I care about ad populum based opinions? You my friend are no "neutral observer", far from it, hence you have no clue what my posts look like, other than the fact that they cut you deep.

Have you heard the phrase: "People in glass houses should not throw stones." Don't throw stones; it's classless.

We live in double-glass houses, it doesn't matter how many stones you sugar-glass warriors throw at us, you don't affect our self-esteem, as we don't base our identity on what other think of us.

Thats what weak appeasers do, you would probably fall in that category.

Somali President Sharif Sh. Ahmed met his Turkish counterpart Abdullah Gul in Istanbul.
http://mxcdn.horseedmedia.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/AYH_3976.jpg

Press release:

(Mogadishu, Somalia, October, 20, 2011) The President of the Republic of Somalia H.E Sharif Sh. Ahmed met his Turkish counterpart H.E Abdullag Gul in Istanbul today. The two leaders discussed many issues ranging from security, developments and greater social and political co-operations between the two countries.

Turkish President H.E Abdullah Gull articulated his government’s commitment to help the government and the people of Somalia. President Sharif expressed his government’s gratitude to the Turkish government for extending a brotherly hand to the Somali people in their hour of need, and emphasis the need to develop that brotherly relationship through bilateral co-operations between the two countries.

President Gull informed the Somali delegates led by President Sharif Sh. Ahmed that the government of Turkey will send the newly appointed Turkish Ambassador to Mogadishu shortly to oversee projects and carry out instructions and implementations. These will include security, reconciliation, education, reconstruction and institution building. The President of Somalia H.E Sharif Sh. Ahmed requested the help of Turkish government with regards to the new constitution for Somalia. The Turkish will send a technical committee to work closely with the Somali committee for the draft of the new Somali constitution. Source (http://horseedmedia.net/2011/10/21/somalia-somali-president-sharif-sh-ahmed-met-his-turkish-counterparp-abdullah-gul-in-istanbul/)

PM Abdiweli and his wife, with the Obamas:
http://allboocame.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/PM-and-Obama.bmp

(damn they got height, Somalis are supposed to be one of the tallest groups in East Africa :D)

Abdiweli's height is unrepresentative. :lol:

First of all, Somalia is not the only country that's lashed with ignorant statements on these forums. You should never take the Internet too seriously. Second, cleaning ignorant posts and setting trolls straight is obviously good, but all Somali posters aren't exactly angles. Keep your eyes on both sides of the fence.
.

I am never srs on the internet unless I fill my TPS reports online. :banana2:

I think Ethiopia is the most disliked country in Africa by other countries.

Its justified. Sort of how like all of Russia's neighbors hate them.

When one country tries to go around trying to colonize their neighbors it gets a bit fucking annoying after repeated attempts.

PM Abdiweli and his wife, with the Obamas:
http://allboocame.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/PM-and-Obama.bmp

(damn they got height, Somalis are supposed to be one of the tallest groups in East Africa :D)

He must be 5'7 or 5'8. Both Obamas are tall, remember.

I think I mentioned it earlier here before but he was a prof at a nearby university to the one I graduated from. Not only that but his wife was a prof at mine. I never saw her though, she was in the Economics department.

LOL. :lol:

Its justified. Sort of how like all of Russia's neighbors hate them.
Ethiopia's neighbors are: Eritrea, Djibouti, Somaliland, Somalia, Kenya, South Sudan and Sudan. There's only tension with two, Eritrea and Somalia. When it comes to Somalia, it's not with the "official government", only those Al Shabaab terrorists.

When one country tries to go around trying to colonize their neighbors it gets a bit fucking annoying after repeated attempts.
Ethiopia has never tried to colonize Somalia, what the hell are you drinking tonight. :lol: If you look at Eritrea, they started the war '98, get your facts right.

Dummy, ...

That right there indicates your intelligence level, about the same as the rest of Somalia, and your inability to debate in a rational manner. If you had strong, well-reasoned arguments you wouldn't need to engage in such foolishness.

If you can't discuss without grade-school insults then enough with you.

You all are so boring. Please all stop trying to make the thread boring. :yawn:

In some positive news:

Turkish Ministries to train Somalis to fish, raise grain.

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/n.php?n=turkish-ministry-to-train-somalis-to-fish-raise-grain-2011-10-23

This is the kind of help Somalia needs.

^That's great news, I think more of those type of updates should be posted in this topic, instead of the pathetic posts from hateful characters such as the one below:

That right there indicates your intelligence level, about the same as the rest of Somalia, and your inability to debate in a rational manner. If you had strong, well-reasoned arguments you wouldn't need to engage in such foolishness.

If you can't discuss without grade-school insults then enough with you.

LMAO, just give it up, you can't debate even if your life depended on it. Every single reply of yours is nothing but divertions and generalised attacks on the Somali people, and then you had the nerve to call my posts "classless, weak, and pathetic"? The weight of the info I provided made your little argument crash like a house of cards, and instead you focused on a silly little word like "dummy" to get out of the heat.

Another bites the dust. :lol:

I think Ethiopia is the most disliked country in Africa by other countries.

I think you hit a nerve there, becuase some Ethiopians were too quick to blame the usual suspects.:)

MOGADISHU, Somalia – An African Union official says that a suicide bomber has blown himself up in Somalia's capital, wounding two AU peacekeepers.

Biyereke Floribert, a spokesman for African Union peacekeepers, said Sunday that the bomber ran after a convoy of AU peacekeepers near the Tribunka square in Mogadishu before detonating the explosives.

Floribert blamed the attack on al-Shabab, an al-Qaida-linked group that is waging an insurgency against Somalia's weak government.

Earlier this month al-Shabab militants blew up a truck bomb in the capital, killing more than 100 people in their deadliest single explosion.

African Union peacekeepers from Burundi and Uganda are supporting Somali forces in their battle against the militants.


http://old.news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20111023/ap_on_re_af/af_somalia_violence

Suicide bombing is becoming normal now.:ohno:

An unneeded import from the Middle East :no:

An unneeded import from the Middle East :no:

I could be wrong, but I think suicide bombing originated from the Tamil Tigers of Sri Lanka.

That is true too, but I still blame the middle east for bring it back into fashion :)

That is true too, but I still blame the middle east for bring it back into fashion :)

Mass-production.:lol:

Don't Force Statehood On Somalia

Richard Dowden

20 October 2011

The model for Somalia is Switzerland. Don't laugh! Political power in Switzerland lies in the cantons - the 26 proud self-governing communities. The state, such as it is, deals with international matters and national law. Who cares - or even knows - who the president of Switzerland is. The way people live and are governed is decided locally. The Swiss confederation means that cantons have joined the state willingly and can leave if they want to. If they were a simple federation, they could not.

Somalis - unlike the Swiss but like most Africans - are stuck with a constitution that leaves total power in the hands of a president. Strong centralised states are the legacy of colonial rulers and unsurprisingly the inheritor governments have kept it that way. Terrible wars - such as those in Nigeria, Ethiopia and Sudan - were fought to keep the countries together, but in the latter two they failed. In Somalia civil war began in the late 1980s and since then fragmentation has continued. Good. Leave it that way. It suits Somali society.

The odd factor is that Somalia is one of only two sub-Saharan African states made up of a single ethnic group. The other being Botswana, the most peaceful country on the continent. But the Somalis are different. I realised that when I was having dinner with a minister at a restaurant in Hargeisa, the capital of Somaliland. One of the waiters recognised my host and having delivered the food, decided to give the minister an earful. In most African countries the man would have been dragged off to jail - or worse. But not only did the minister have to listen, he got to his feet and argued back. This was an argument between equals.

"Every man his own Sultan" is how one Ugandan visitor described the Somalis in the mid 19th century. Its nomadic tradition makes it a very self-sufficient, individualistic society bound by complicated codes of loyalty and rivalry. Within families and clans it is a very hierarchical society. But between families and clans it is very level, competitive. Somalis regard everyone as an equal. And they are used to defending themselves.

Traditionally disputes between Somalis were sorted out by the clan elders who would arrange compensation payments after clan or family battles or theft. In the north of Somalia, Somaliland, British indirect rule left the traditional leadership of clan elders - collectively known as the Gurti - in place. During colonial times Somaliland virtually managed itself and the Gurti retained respect and authority. That has carried through to present times and Somaliland is stable with political parties and democratic elections. Twice electoral disputes have reached crisis point in recent years. Each time the politicians have turned to the Gurti for a ruling which has been accepted by all. In the Italian-ruled south the Gurti was dismissed in colonial times but it still exists beneath the surface.

Somalia's civil war began in the 1980s between clans in a winner takes all battle for total national power. The former British-ruled north west territory, Somaliland, declared independence. The north east, Puntland, also declared itself self governing until a proper government was restored. The centre, Galmudug, is also self governing. The war continues as a battle for Mogadishu, the capital and for the ports and fertile river valleys of the south. It has cost hundreds of thousands of lives.

Although alliances have shifted, no formula has been devised that can bring peace at a national level. The only period of peace in the south was in 2005 when the clan warlords were defeated and Islamic courts took over the administration of justice and kept the peace. Some courts were harsh but southern Somalia was safe, trade and investment increased and people walked freely in the streets, A united peaceful Somalia however, especially under the rule of Islamic courts, was a threat to Ethiopia. The Ethiopians persuaded the Americans this was Islamic fundamentalism taking over. The Ethiopian invasion at the end of 2006, backed by the US and - shamefully - Britain which should have known better, in fact strengthened the fundamentalists. Three years later the Ethiopians were forced to withdraw and were replaced by an African peacekeeping force of Ugandan and Burundian troops. Since then they have managed to hold a small part of Mogadishu on behalf of a weak ineffective government most of whose members reside in Nairobi.

The rest of the city and much of the south was at the mercy Al-Shabaab, an Islamic fundamentalist movement. But Shabaab made the crucial mistake of not letting foreign aid enter the country during the worst drought since the 1980s. That turned the drought into a famine and turned the people against Shabaab, forcing them out of Mogadishu and other areas to allow food aid to arrive.

This presents the government - known as the Transitional Federal Government (TFG) - with an opportunity to prove itself and deliver food and security to the people. But this is unlikely to happen according to Professor Ken Menkhaus, a Horn of Africa specialist. "This is the TFG's best and probably last chance to do something right and capitalise on Al-Shabaab's weakness by showing that it can and will govern well" he says. "I wish I could say I am hopeful it will, but the TFG's track record so far points to the opposite conclusion - it has never missed the opportunity to miss an opportunity."

The UN now talks glibly about restoring the Somali state and holding elections. This is the way to continue the war, not end it. Political parties in Somalia are little more than a cover for clans so an election simply elevates one clan over the others. Allow the government in Mogadishu to run the city and port, perhaps the Benadir region, but no further.

Negotiations should then take place region by region about the relationship between them and the capital, leaving power in local - not national - hands. The zones should be soft bordered encouraging trade and dialogue between them. Taxes should be raised and spent locally. To act as the national security blanket a forum of clan leaders could be formed, joined by traders, businessmen, religious leaders, poets and musicians (both very important people in Somalia) - in fact a sort of Somali House of Lords to counterbalance the inept and greedy political class.


This forum might turn into a body that negotiates between groups and chooses who should represent Somalia internationally and take the Somalia seat at the UN and represent Somalia in its diplomatic missions. But neither the forum nor the government should be given nationwide powers at street level. That should remain entirely local. Any attempt to create a powerful Somali state will ensure the civil wars will continue.

That is especially true of Somaliland where the feeling against the south is still very bitter. Reunification with the south is unanimously opposed. Not a single Somalilander I know wants reunification. Not a single Somali from the rest of the country wants Somaliland to stay independent. Unless we are very careful, peace in the south of Somalia will mean war in the north.

That is true too, but I still blame the middle east for bring it back into fashion :)
:lol:

That is true too, but I still blame the middle east for bring it back into fashion :)

Your not being fair there. Blame the inventer not the massenger.

Ethiopia's neighbors are: Eritrea, Djibouti, Somaliland, Somalia, Kenya, South Sudan and Sudan. There's only tension with two, Eritrea and Somalia. When it comes to Somalia, it's not with the "official government", only those Al Shabaab terrorists.



When did the TFG became the "official government" of Somalia.:ohno:

Lately, your twisting things to your advantage, but many of us here weren't born yesterday.

When did the TFG became the "official government" of Somalia.:ohno:


It is the "internationally recognized" government of Somalia. But yeah, it isn't in reality.

The model for Somalia is Switzerland. Don't laugh! Political power in Switzerland lies in the cantons - the 26 proud self-governing communities. The state, such as it is, deals with international matters and national law. Who cares - or even knows - who the president of Switzerland is. The way people live and are governed is decided locally. The Swiss confederation means that cantons have joined the state willingly and can leave if they want to. If they were a simple federation, they could not.


He is right. The idea of a centralized unitary government in Somalia with most of the power in Xamar are dead and are not coming back.

The best examples for Somalia are the UAE and perhaps yeah, Switzerland. Ideally with a weak federal government that is charge of foreign affairs, defense, and banking but with all other powers devolved to federal states (such as education, infrastructure, health, etc). With ideally a mix of Sharia, Xeer, and Civil law being the rules. Low taxes and leaving alone businesses but with strong private-public cooperation especially in infrastructure. Also, a neutral foreign policy with low involvement in foreign affairs, the main goal should be revitalization and nothing else.

If Somalia was to do this, it would likely surpass it's neighbors in less than 15 years.

He is right. The idea of a centralized unitary government in Somalia with most of the power in Xamar are dead and are not coming back.

The best examples for Somalia are the UAE and perhaps yeah, Switzerland. Ideally with a weak federal government that is charge of foreign affairs, defense, and banking but with all other powers devolved to federal states (such as education, infrastructure, health, etc). With ideally a mix of Sharia, Xeer, and Civil law being the rules. Low taxes and leaving alone businesses but with strong private-public cooperation especially in infrastructure. Also, a neutral foreign policy with low involvement in foreign affairs, the main goal should be revitalization and nothing else.

If Somalia was to do this, it would likely surpass it's neighbors in less than 15 years.

I would like to know how you came up with such a conclusion.

I would like to know how you came up with such a conclusion.

:lol:

I would like to know how you came up with such a conclusion.

Simple. That is the optimal situation for Somalis to develop. It can't develop the way that it is prescribed to.

Simple. That is the optimal situation for Somalis to develop. It can't develop the way that it is prescribed to.

I am asking about the 15 years.

Well...

I suspect that a Somalia with a respectable law system as well as security would literally boom to be one of the fastest growing economies in the world. It has a GDP that is pathetically low but still is over double the size that it was before the civil war. Our resources and livestock sectors are untouched and the latter is set a big boom in the future since the Arabs have allowed Somali sheep and goats back into their countries and are investing to make the industry better. And this is in a place that, although safe, is thought to be dangerous and there is still no solution to the war yet. Imagine what can be done if we had the same security and institutions that our neighbors take for granted?

I see places like Djibouti, which although has a population lower than Mogadishu and it is still poor and has an unemployment rate of 50% but still have a government and I wonder why. They should be a developed country rightfully. But it actually has a lower life expectancy than Somalia actually. Then I thought to myself, government is as much a problem as it a solution. It would not take too long for Somalia to catch up if it was allowed to.

When this civil war nonsense finally ends, there will be a few individuals who will be very very wealthy. It will be like the oligarchs who made their millions and billions after the Soviet Union fell. The country is a future gold mine.

Well, it's all relative. Depends on the metrics being used to measure. It actually takes at least 5 years if not 10 years of stability to produce double digit growth. In most cases, it has 15 years just to get there. The only exception is when there is significant Oil involved.

Somalia right now is at around 2% GDP growth rate. It certainly has the potential to be one of the fastest growing economies in the region, if not the Continent. However, just laying the groundwork for that type of growth will take almost that much time. And in the time, its neighbors will not have sat still.

I think in 10 or 15 years it may well be the fastest growing economy in the region, but it will have a long way to catch up. It won't be surpassing any of its neighbors (except Eritrea) in its macroeconomic indicators anytime soon.

Well, thankfully we have oil then!

The revitalization of Somalia will be one of Africa's biggest stories in the future, I guarantee that.

Well...

I suspect that a Somalia with a respectable law system as well as security would literally boom to be one of the fastest growing economies in the world. It has a GDP that is pathetically low but still is over double the size that it was before the civil war. Our resources and livestock sectors are untouched and the latter is set a big boom in the future since the Arabs have allowed Somali sheep and goats back into their countries and are investing to make the industry better. And this is in a place that, although safe, is thought to be dangerous and there is still no solution to the war yet. Imagine what can be done if we had the same security and institutions that our neighbors take for granted?

I see places like Djibouti, which although has a population lower than Mogadishu and it is still poor and has an unemployment rate of 50% but still have a government and I wonder why. They should be a developed country rightfully. But it actually has a lower life expectancy than Somalia actually. Then I thought to myself, government is as much a problem as it a solution. It would not take too long for Somalia to catch up if it was allowed to.

When this civil war nonsense finally ends, there will be a few individuals who will be very very wealthy. It will be like the oligarchs who made their millions and billions after the Soviet Union fell. The country is a future gold mine.

Thats possibly the scenario but it doesnt explain how you would surpass your neighbours in 15 years.

Okay, we won't. I think the only reason why you guys feel slighted is because I said that, because that's all you seem to be paying attention to.

Okay, we won't. I think the only reason why you guys feel slighted is because I said that, because that's all you seem to be paying attention to.

You should back up your statements with fact.I dont see why a stable Somalia under those circumstances would eclipse their neighbours unless there was some civil war or a major catastrophe would that lead to economic stagnation and ruin.Its such blank statements that lead to fights here in the oasis by indirectly undermining others and looking down on them.Just saying..

Somali Entrepreneurial mindset is the fact of what will happen shall peace and security return.

Simply, we don't have the institutions and stability our neighbors take for granted yet we are still growing in a state of instability/war.

What can we do if we did? The sky is the limit. :angel1:

Let's agree to disagree.

Well, thankfully we have oil then!

The revitalization of Somalia will be one of Africa's biggest stories in the future, I guarantee that.

There is no doubt about that. I'm just as excited as you are tbh. I think if significant Oil is discovered, it could change everything.

Without Oil, however, it will take a near perfect execution of a near perfect economic policy and a near perfect set of circumstances, to hit the ground running and have a significant take off in just a couple years.

But who is to say this can't happen? Somalis are the entrepreneurial kings of the region.

Unfortunately politically I am less hopeful when it comes to reality, the conditions I mentioned are positive. But on the economic side I am hopeful. I feel as though it's at it's bottom, and many encouraging news lately has fueled my optimism.

I guess we will just have to wait and see and hope for the best. :)

Well, it's all relative. Depends on the metrics being used to measure. It actually takes at least 5 years if not 10 years of stability to produce double digit growth. In most cases, it has 15 years just to get there. The only exception is when there is significant Oil involved.

Hersh, Somalia might be in a annoying conflict now, but its not sleeping. Many areas across the country previously neglected have been revitalised and are exporting more goods than ever. Somalis have built and expanded roads and ports, built bridges, urban centers, factories, universities and schools, with little to no FDI, other than the diaspora.

A return to stability would see a dramatic influx of FDI matching or surpassing the prewar investments, and the reconstruction of Southern cities such as Mogadishu (and the steady return of expratriates) will result in a significant real-estate boom. Somalia at total peace with a population of between 10 to 12 million people and half of this population living in urban centers won't need 10-15 years to get there, for its already progressing in time of civil-strife.

The private-sector was non-existent in the prewar era, now its one of the strongest components of the economy, with many Somali companies becoming conglemerates. Many potential industries that are easy to erect have never really been fully tapped into, but plans are there to do so.

Somalia right now is at around 2% GDP growth rate. It certainly has the potential to be one of the fastest growing economies in the region, if not the Continent. However, just laying the groundwork for that type of growth will take almost that much time. And in the time, its neighbors will not have sat still.

I think in 10 or 15 years it may well be the fastest growing economy in the region, but it will have a long way to catch up. It won't be surpassing any of its neighbors (except Eritrea) in its macroeconomic indicators anytime soon.

Figures on Somalia's economy are unreliable, for no on the ground research has been done for more than two decades. The CIA World Factbook has been suspiciously static with its $600 GDP per capita estimate based on nothing, evendo the prewar GDP per capita stood at $835, when Somalis were relatively poorer, had no private-sector, insignificant exports and imports, and no diaspora pumping in $2 billion anually into the country.

Somalia will be exporting millions of heads of live-stock come 2013, significantly more than it does now, but the CIA W.F.B will remain static, as will all the other bodies such as the IMF/World Banc, because they don't really have a clue. Unless the reconstructed Central Bank of Somalia start employing surveys on the ground, and re-incorporates the informal economy, all these estimates floating around are just guesstimates.

There is no doubt about that. I'm just as excited as you are tbh. I think if significant Oil is discovered, it could change everything.

Without Oil, however, it will take a near perfect execution of a near perfect economic policy and a near perfect set of circumstances, to hit the ground running and have a significant take off in just a couple years.

But who is to say this can't happen? Somalis are the entrepreneurial kings of the region.

I am even more excited at the prospects than the both of you :lol:

There is no doubt about that. I'm just as excited as you are tbh. I think if significant Oil is discovered, it could change everything.

Without Oil, however, it will take a near perfect execution of a near perfect economic policy and a near perfect set of circumstances, to hit the ground running and have a significant take off in just a couple years.

But who is to say this can't happen? Somalis are the entrepreneurial kings of the region.


Somalia certainly has potential and when peace returns, this country will apply the Somali entrepreneurial spirit and cash in on this potential. This country is blessed with a variety of resources.

- It has mineral resources including salt, tin, copper, coal, gypsum, Iron ore, magnese and uranium among others; there are also precious stones deposited in the country.

- Somalia has proven gas reserves and some oil has been recovered from previously drilled wells; its location means that it is only a question of how much oil and gas are to find underneath this land.

- Another thing Somalia has been blessed with is the longest coastline of any country in Africa - let's just say there is plenty of sun, sea and fish as well as thousands of kilometers of pristine white sand beaches and many ports. :banana: Two thirds of all tuna caught in the Indian Ocean is caugt off Somalia's coast.

- Somalia, often wrongly labelled as 'desert country', and famous for the Berbera Blackhead/Somali Sheep, has one of the largest numbers of livestock in the world - including the largest number of camels in the world - with this comes immense potential for meat, dairy products, leather products, hides and skins etc.

- Another asset which cannot be forgotten is the diaspora population which can be found in almost all corners of the world, estimated to be 250,000 strong in the U.K alone. This diaspora has a strong connection to their homeland and also have strong networks in business (particularly in the middle east/east africa but also countries like Malaysia and Indonesia) and other fields in their adopted countries. The diaspora is estimated to send back remittances of $2 billion USD per year to Somalia. This diaspora will also be important in providing specialist skills, essential contacts and connections with potential export markets.

- Somalia is located in a very strategic geographic location. Its coast, the longest in Africa, gives it easy access to the busiest and most strategic shipping lanes of the world; through which the majority of the worlds traded goods, oil, minerals, weapons are transported. It is located opposite and within reach of all the oil producing middle eastern countries - with easy access to the Gulf of Aden, Bab-el-Mandeb strait, Suez canal and the Strait of Hormuz. There certainly will be opportunities to cash in on this location. Somalia is also well placed, with its many port cities and excellent location, to become a major shipping and transhipping point.

- Did I mention two perennial [and countless seasonal] rivers ? :lol:

- On top of this all, Somalia has millions of hectares of fantastically fertile, black soil, farmland. In the past this country was an exporter of many agricultural products including bananas, cotton, tobacco, sugercane, tinned tomatoes, [processed] pasta and other products. Again, great potential.

Yes there is more. Here comes the best part - Somalia. with all these resources, has only a population of ~10m to share the wealth that will be derived from these resources. Wow, talk about a good mixture of resources agricultural, marine and mineral. And so far I have only discussed the potential primary business sector of the economy, let alone secondary and tertiary sectors (even currently Somalia tellecommunications industry is booming). There is no doubt that when Somalia returns to peace, it will see a buzz of economic activity.:cheers:

Somali Troops return from Uganda

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http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/04/world/africa/somalia-sierra-leone-to-send-troops.html?_r=1

Sierra Leone will send 850 soldiers to an African Union peacekeeping mission in Somalia, a military official said Thursday. The official, Lt. Col. Ronnie Harleston, Sierra Leone’s military attaché to the United Nations, said the troops would deploy in the middle of next year. They will join approximately 9,000 peacekeepers from Uganda and Burundi, who are currently trying to secure the Somali capital, Mogadishu, from Islamist rebels. Djibouti plans to contribute 850 troops to the force this month. The force has a mandate for 12,000 peacekeepers, but African Union officials say they would need 20,000 to try to pacify the entire country, which has been in a state of civil unrest for roughly 20 years.

Excellent.

Janub do you have any other country you would like to join this peace keeping mission?

Yeah, lets invite Chad, Nigeria, Botswana, and Namibia to this gangbang in Somalia. They all get immunity from rape charges this time.

:? I don't know if that is all sarcasm or partial sarcasm...

I am very ignorant of Somali society and Somali affairs but how exactly can the current status of the country be altered without foreign force?

They are two entirely different things and both can be debated if you like. Lets not lump them together. Plus, you are not going to deny that wars in africa usually also mean a lot of rape ?

Not interested enough in Somalia to have a debate. Thanks though.

Oh, and Africa isn't the only place where rape and war is synonymous. :)

Thats good to know :)

Yes atrocities happen in war, but I really don't think these guys for the most part are crossing an entire continent to rape Somali women or hordes of illegitimate children will run the streets of Mogadishu :crazy:

Yes atrocities happen in war, but I really don't think these guys for the most part are crossing an entire continent to rape Somali women

Lord :hammer: ... no one said that rape is the primary reason or even one of the reasons they go there. It just happens to be one of many unwanted and undesired side effects. (as for the 'hordes' of illigitimate children i think the person was kidding/exxagerating)...

What an awful exaggeration :crazy: and Uganda and Burundi have been there for donkey years :crazy:

Uganda and Burundi have been there for donkey years

and ... ? Please people, if you have a point to make, make it and get it over with.

And? The raping Armageddon has not happened yet... I swear some folks are certifiable:|
You've made your point:lol: you are a few cards short of a full deck...

Why do you care what we do in our own country? And how is that any of your business?

Why do I care? Well for one, my tax dollars contribute to the offensive against those Al Shabbab thugs adding so much fame and glory to your 'nation'.

But to be totally honest, I couldn't care less about what you or any of your countrymen do in your own country, but when it starts to effect the entire region, and sends shock waves throughout the entire world, I think I have every right to that 'business'. The barbarity and general hopelessness that originates from your 'country' tends to cause instability in neighboring countries (e.g. Kenya, Uganda), causes disruptions in shipping (piracy), puts a strain on humanitarian organizations, and much more.

Who you gonna blame for that? :fiddle:

Yes but the raping Armageddon has not happened yet... I swear some folks are certifiable

It would make a lot more sense for you to at least try make your points in one post instead of giving snippets and hints as to what you want to say, just saying ...

As for what your 'point'. Rape has almost certainly happened and will likely continue to happen. For you numbers, i.e. whether 20 or 2000 women have been raped, makes a difference; to me it doesn't in the sense that they are in all numbers grave crimes.

I wasn't hinting at anything, you said rapes will increase and two countries have been there for a while and this large tide of rapes has not occurred. Have rapes happened? Of course, but really Al Shabaab commits its own atrocities, with or without AU presence and they are the same people.

So this "OMG the rapers are coming" comment is a bit crass on your part:|
Like I said some here are not playing with a full deck apparently :laugh:

when it starts to effect the entire region, and sends shock waves throughout the entire world, I think I have every right to that 'business'. The barbarity and general hopelessness that originates from your 'country' tends to cause instability in neighboring countries (e.g. Kenya, Uganda), causes disruptions in shipping (piracy), puts a strain on humanitarian organizations, and much more.

Kenya has had many refugees in its arid and neglected region of NFD which is ethnically Somali anyway. These regugees have been 'looked after' by international agecies and not out of the pocket of kenya. On top of this is the aid industry that depends on somalia that contributeds millions to kenyas economy. I think shockwaves throughout the world is a bit dramatic.

Your analysis is very simplistic and superficial; clearly you have not studied the issues in depth and you are not aware of the root causes and actors that prolong the conflict.

Piracy. Piracy has its roots in the illigal deumping of toxic and nuclear waste as well as illegal fishing in the somali coast which is the longest in africa. Local groups then becan to patrol the coast. Some illigal fishing vessals where detained and this then led to orgsanised criminal gangs to take over. Most of the money and the brains behind the operstions are in nairobi/kenya and dubai. some of the supposed pirated that drowned after their boatd kapseized were found with ethippian government id cards. Im not saying that this is all that happens but im showing you that there are complext issues at play here.

The security issues, apart from isolated incidents and the relatively minor border issues with kenya, have been minimal on east african countries. Uganda was only bombed when its militias became involved in the clashes in the city of mogadishu. More somali civillians have been killed and maimed by foreign actors than have east african civillians by the somali conflict - so some perspective is good. East african countries have done more to destabilise and prolong the conflict in Somalia than any impact somalia has had on east african countries. But of course some pretext is always needed for either the AMISOM rent-a-soldier activities or the ethio-kenyan designs for somalia.

If anything foreign actors have actively soutght to create and prolong the conflict in Somalia. There was peace in 2006, a grass roots government was formed and then foreign actors invaded and destroyed the peace and then ironically reinstated the president they overthrew to become the new president.

I wasn't hinting at anything, you said rapes will increase and two countries have been there for a while and this large tide of rapes has not occurred. Have rapes happened? Of course, but really Al Shabaab commits its own atrocities, with or without AU presence and they are the same people.

So this "OMG the rapers are coming" comment is a bit crass on your part:|
Like I said some here are not playing with a full deck apparently :laugh:


So now you are saying that rapes have happened but al-shabab may have also commited rape. Right ... and I said anything that disagrees with this ? not really.

You can dramatise, exxagerate and be creative with your quoting all you like (""OMG the rapers are coming"") but there is no denying that the foreign troops that are in and will be coming to somalia will engage in rape - whether the former ethiopain forces (well documented esp in somali media) or the other more recent troops. you can play this down if you like but you cannot fool the Somalis who know exactly what happens on the ground, including the shelling and targeting of civillians by those foreign forces, rape etc. You'd have us believe that these saints are coming to the place that do not commit any crimes against the civillians please cut the nonsense Arinze.

Because I did not say that? That yes rapes do occur with troops coming in an area? Of course I did, but I guess selective reading is in effect.
Well I'm taking creative liberties with what you said, but I think its a pretty good transliteration.:yes:
Yes but you are acting as though the rapers are at the door, My friend they were in the house already and if you want to play this up as the "outsiders" are the real evil doers, be my guest.
Anyway, yes all of Africa wants to come to Somalia and rape:| Happy?

Lord have mercy on the children :bow:

Kenya has had many refugees in its arid and neglected region of NFD which is ethnically Somali anyway. These regugees have been 'looked after' by international agecies and not out of the pocket of kenya. On top of this is the aid industry that depends on somalia that contributeds millions to kenyas economy. I think shockwaves throughout the world is a bit dramatic.

Your analysis is very simplistic and superficial; clearly you have not studied the issues in depth and you are not aware of the root causes and actors that prolong the conflict.

Piracy. Piracy has its roots in the illigal deumping of toxic and nuclear waste as well as illegal fishing in the somali coast which is the longest in africa. Local groups then becan to patrol the coast. Some illigal fishing vessals where detained and this then led to orgsanised criminal gangs to take over. Most of the money and the brains behind the operstions are in nairobi/kenya and dubai. some of the supposed pirated that drowned after their boatd kapseized were found with ethippian government id cards.

The security issues, apart from isolated incidents and the relatively minor border issues with kenya, have been minimal on east african countries. Uganda was only bombed when its militias became involved in the clashes in the city of mogadishu.

If anything foreign actors have actively soutght to create and prolong the conflict in Somalia. There was peace in 2006, a grass roots government was formed and then foreign actors invaded and destroyed the peace and then ironically reinstated the president they overthrew to become the new president.

Please, don't underestimate my knowledge of the conflict in Somalia. I don't know everything, but I'm not totally ignorant on the issue. And no, I didn't cull this knowledge from Black Hawk Down. :lol:

So in a nutshell, you're still blame foreigners for whats going on in Somalia? I'm well aware of the ICU situation in 2006... but why did they have to go get into conflict with the already recognized TFG? From what I can tell, you guys brought that on yourselves, once again. :fiddle:

Please, don't underestimate my knowledge of the conflict in Somalia. I don't know everything, but I'm not totally ignorant on the issue. And no, I didn't cull this knowledge from Black Hawk Down. :lol:

So in a nutshell, you're still blame foreigners for whats going on in Somalia? I'm well aware of the ICU situation in 2006... but why did they have to go get into conflict with the already recognized TFG? From what I can tell, you guys brought that on yourselves, once again. :fiddle:

It is good that you have some understanding of the background then :cheers:

To answer your points. Firstly, what is recognised by the eternal forces has little to do with that is either (a) the will of the people or (b) in the interests of the country and the poeple. Secondly, the ICU controlled more land and has more broad-based support than any other group and this TFG, though recognised internationally, was made up of thugs, crooks and warlords installed by the said foreign actors; they fought with the ICU.

Because I did not say that? That yes rapes do occur with troops coming in an area? Of course I did, but I guess selective reading is in effect.
Well I'm taking creative liberties with what you said, but I think its a pretty good transliteration.:yes:
Yes but you are acting as though the rapers are at the door, My friend they were in the house already and if you want to play this up as the "outsiders" are the real evil doers, be my guest.
Anyway, yes all of Africa wants to come to Somalia and rape:| Happy?

Lord have mercy on the children :bow:

We agree that rapes happen aspecially in a conflict and that with the coming of more foreign/african troops, more rape is likely to happen; not per se because they are african but because of simple arithmatic. I have already explained to you that I did not suggest that the primary reason of foreign forces coming to Somaia is to rape but that this is a side effect - you are deliberately playing stupid and ignoring this. There is no debate here. I am not going to entertain you nonsense points any further [unless you make any substantive contributions to this thread]. Ciao

If I was playing stupid I would say, oh no the peace keeping forces are angels sent by the heavenly father himself to put Somalia back in order, but I didn't. But the fact of the matter is that even with increase of troops by the countries already participating, rapes have not gone up so dramatically.

And the Somali media that some reports say are forced to do good PR for Al Shabaab, yes they are not biased at all :yes:

Yes because when your point is that the "Africans are coming to rape" its not much of a discussion to have:lol: though the facts say that largely this is not case, but whatevs right?

I await your brilliant additions as well:| I wont hold my breath though. The fact that rape was the first thing to come to your mind and was a large part of your first post says a lot about your mindset.

I would worry more so about deaths in my case, but to each his own of course :lol:

It is good that you have some understanding of the background then :cheers:

To answer your points. Firstly, what is recognised by the eternal forces has little to do with that is either (a) the will of the people or (b) in the interests of the country and the poeple. Secondly, the ICU controlled more land and has more broad-based support than any other group and this TFG, though recognised internationally, was made up of thugs, crooks and warlords installed by the said foreign actors; they fought with the ICU.

Thanks for clarifying, but do you have any sources to back up whats in bold?

Please, don't underestimate my knowledge of the conflict in Somalia. I don't know everything, but I'm not totally ignorant on the issue. And no, I didn't cull this knowledge from Black Hawk Down. :lol:

So in a nutshell, you're still blame foreigners for whats going on in Somalia? I'm well aware of the ICU situation in 2006... but why did they have to go get into conflict with the already recognized TFG? From what I can tell, you guys brought that on yourselves, once again. :fiddle:


Its a little of everything, inside/outside...but some times it is made to look like everything is from the outside when there were multiple actors involved inside the country as well.

Thanks for clarifying, but do you have any sources to back up whats in bold?

It is well known that the TFG in all its history has been corrupt, ineffective and has included many of the former warlords. Basically the U.S funded/supported warlords and TFG + Ethiopia sided against the ICU.

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=wEih57-GWQQC&pg=PA32&lpg=PA32&dq=ICU+fight+tfg+and+warlords&source=bl&ots=12TJ9aQDUe&sig=JVPOJbVP_HnIxXeAL_n4k4bsCPw&hl=en&ei=pX2zTvCuEIme8gOb2-3rBA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=7&ved=0CFkQ6AEwBg#v=snippet&q=between%20the%20warlords%20and%20the%20TFG%20on%20the%20one%20side&f=false

This book page ~32 (though previous pages are also very informative) is the best link I could find unless you can read somali and you want to use somali media ? :lol:

Our ancestors would be turning in their graves if they knew about all these foreign troops in Somalia.

^^ Sad days.

More foreigners invading.

Is it for the good? If it is for the good then there is no shame.

If it isn't for the good then I feel your pain.

page 3 and nobody has blamed the West yet

The blame is on everyone, the West is not the only "bad guy" in this thing but yes it did help get things to this point...

Why do you care what we do in our own country? And how is that any of your business?
Because your problems have effected and helped destabilise partst of east Africa. You have pulled in major players from all over the world to watch your waters and you have created the largest refugee population in the world, up there with Afghanistan.

Because your problems have effected and helped destabilise partst of east Africa. You have pulled in major players from all over the world to watch your waters and you have created the largest refugee population in the world, up there with Afghanistan.

East Africa already had problems and was fucked already. Stop trying to act like Somalia is the sole cause of destabilisation (hah at ignoring the political and societies corruption, elections fuckups and wars in EA)

Hell up until the last few years, the problems stayed within it's own borders. It has only been since foreigners stuck their nose in that it has gone beyond it and what?
If you invade a country, the rules change. It's boundaries goes beyond it's own to yours which is what happened to Ethiopia.

Watch or steal? Even pirating began when foreigners started stealing and invaded Somali waters and territorial boundaries.

Don't expect any Somali to agree with you
It is no ones business or problem if we Somalis burn ourselves to the ground. Nobody asked for a invasion
If we suddenly decide to burn the country, salt the earth so nothing can ever grow again and host a party to celebrate, it is still not your problem. Mind your own business and deal with the problems undoubtedly in all of your respective African countries :|

Djibouti lends military hand to Somalia

MOGADISHU, Somalia, Nov. 3 (UPI) -- The tiny African country of Djibouti said it was sending around 850 soldiers to help African Union peacekeepers in Somalia.

Somalia said it wanted the help of major military powers like the United States as it struggled to gain leverage against al-Shabaab militants, who at one point controlled most of Mogadishu.

Troops from Djibouti will join the 9,000 members of the AU peacekeeping mission in Somalia. The African Union aims to roughly double the number of troops backing the Somali government.

"Our forces have been very adaptive, adapting to the terrain, fighting in built-up areas," AU Lt. Col. Paddy Ankunda, a spokesman for the peacekeeping force, was quoted by The New York Times as saying. "But it's been difficult."

Kenya launched a recent military offensive against al-Qaida affiliated al-Shabaab recently because of a spat of kidnappings along its northern border.

The French navy struck several rebel positions inside Somalia in October. Maj. Emmanuel Chirchir, a spokesman for Kenya's armed forces, was quoted by Times as saying "one of the partners," which the Times said was a reference to U.S. or French militaries, was behind recent airstrikes in Somalia.

The Times adds that French forces launched covert strikes in Somalia in the past with the aim of attacking militant or piracy groups active in the region.



Read more: http://www.upi.com/Top_News/Special/2011/11/03/Djibouti-lends-military-hand-to-Somalia/UPI-53601320338020/#ixzz1ck7dZrWd

Because your problems have effected and helped destabilise partst of east Africa. You have pulled in major players from all over the world to watch your waters and you have created the largest refugee population in the world, up there with Afghanistan.

To say "Your problems ... destabilise partst of east Africa" is factually incorrect - the underlying causes and the factors that prolong the conflict are not 'our problems' per se - they are regional problems, and as I have pointed out east african countries in fact have done much to contribute to, worsen and prolong the conflict. It is in effect a regional conflict playing out in Somalia - this has long since ceased to be a civil war my friend.East african countries have done more to destabilise and prolong the conflict in Somalia than any impact somalia has had on east african countries. But of course some pretext is always needed for either the AMISOM rent-a-soldier activities or the US or ethio-kenyan designs for somalia.

The security issues, apart from isolated incidents and the relatively minor border issues with kenya, have been minimal on east african countries. Uganda was only bombed when its militias became involved in the clashes in the city of mogadishu. More somali civillians have been killed and maimed by foreign actors than have east african civillians by the somali conflict - so some perspective is good. If anything foreign actors have actively soutght to create and prolong the conflict in Somalia.

Kenya has had many refugees in its arid and neglected region of NFD which is ethnically Somali anyway. These regugees have been 'looked after' by international agecies and not out of the pocket of kenya. On top of this is the aid industry that depends on somalia that contributeds millions to kenyas economy.

non-somalia related conflict that has taken place in east african countries has done more to destabilise countries in the east africa region in the past 20 years (91-2011). Wether it is ethnic and militant (ONLF, OLF, ALF, anuak/gambella massacre) conflict in ethiopia or 'election' related violence due to 'leaders' clinging to power (Zenawi, Musevni, Kibaki). Eritrea-ethiopia conflict. Perpetual tribal conflict in kenya-sudan-ethiopia border with hundreds of lives claimed. Kenya-Uganda militia and border issues. In fact there have been hundreds of thousands of Oromo refugees that have fled to the safe (northern) parts of Somalia (believe it or not) from ethiopia :ohno:

As for the piracy I care little for the negative affects on the international community. The fact is that what is called 'piracy' was directly a result of illegal fishing, dumping of toxic waste, dumping of nuclear waste with unimaginable cost to Somalia so let the international community feel the consequences of their actions. Since the beginning of vigilante coast guard/piracy, illegal fishing, dumping of toxic waste, dumping of nuclear waste has plummeted so this is a good thing. If the international community is not interested in stopping the violations of somalia's coast or in the enabling of local groups to do this, then local groups will do it by whatever means they have possible. In any case, this is again, a side-effect of a regional problem, a regional and even international conflict.

East Africa already had problems and was fucked already. Stop trying to act like Somalia is the sole cause of destabilisation (hah at ignoring the political and societies corruption, elections fuckups and wars in EA)

Hell up until the last few years, the problems stayed within it's own borders. It has only been since foreigners stuck their nose in that it has gone beyond it and what?
If you invade a country, the rules change. It's boundaries goes beyond it's own to yours which is what happened to Ethiopia.

Watch or steal? Even pirating began when foreigners started stealing and invaded Somali waters and territorial boundaries.

Don't expect any Somali to agree with you
It is no ones business or problem if we Somalis burn ourselves to the ground. Nobody asked for a invasion
If we suddenly decide to burn the country, salt the earth so nothing can ever grow again and host a party to celebrate, it is still not your problem. Mind your own business and deal with the problems undountedly in all of your respective African countries :|

:applause: Well said Lailax.

East Africa already had problems and was fucked already. Stop trying to act like Somalia is the sole cause of destabilisation (hah at ignoring the political and societies corruption, elections fuckups and wars in EA)

Hell up until the last few years, the problems stayed within it's own borders. It has only been since foreigners stuck their nose in that it has gone beyond it and what?
If you invade a country, the rules change. It's boundaries goes beyond it's own to yours which is what happened to Ethiopia.

Watch or steal? Even pirating began when foreigners started stealing and invaded Somali waters and territorial boundaries.

Don't expect any Somali to agree with you
It is no ones business or problem if we Somalis burn ourselves to the ground. Nobody asked for a invasion
If we suddenly decide to burn the country, salt the earth so nothing can ever grow again and host a party to celebrate, it is still not your problem. Mind your own business and deal with the problems undoubtedly in all of your respective African countries :|

http://i39.tinypic.com/15fq6ub.jpg

:rofl:

What a cute cat

http://i39.tinypic.com/15fq6ub.jpg

Funny picture :lol:

I'm alright with this as long as my country isn't involved. well I mean really involved like 1000's of troops not like UAV's and special forces. Which probably are involved.

He did hit the cat :lol:

You and Janub are something else. Both of you have reached a new low.:ohno:

Indeed, I am really disapointed with you guys. I expected things like this from outsiders, but not you two. Shame on you two!!!!!

Monk of Mogadishu and Juzme are just playing devil's advocate sxb, don't mind them. The real rapists in the conflict zones of Somalia all have Somali faces. Any rapes committed by Amisom troops would have been mass-deseminated across Somali media in a nano-second, and Al-Shabaab would blow it out of proportion to suit their agenda to draw in support, yet none of that has happened.

beside HIV, in the near future in somali, all kinds of kids pop up every village and it will be hard to tell from which country is their father from :bash::ohno:

Why? Has that happened in Ethiopia, with the past Cuban military, UN mission and the current American bases and troops, are those type of kids popping up, mothered by Ethiopian women?

Somalia has a rich military history (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_history_of_Somalia) and in the past independently send troops to various African countries, did that result in half-Somali babbies popping up in Lusaka or Maputo or Rhodesia? Seems more like people here are airing their personal fantasies rather than discussing realistically.

The only illegitimate kids popping up across East Africa, are the sons and daughters of drunk Somali truck drivers.

Our ancestors would be turning in their graves if they knew about all these foreign troops in Somalia.

Indeed, countries with little to no military history (or only yesterday were suffering from brutal civil-wars themselves) all want a piece of Pentagon's deep borrowed money coffers. This has nothing to do with the welfare of Somalis or peace in Somalia.

+1 This is what I've been saying, if the AU was raping left and right we would know Al Shabaab would not let that tidbit slip by without notice, they control the media in some areas. Does rape by the AU occur, it does, but not this tidal wave that some are making it to be.

Its a little of everything, inside/outside...but some times it is made to look like everything is from the outside when there were multiple actors involved inside the country as well.

Nobody is ignoring the Somali hand in their own misfortune, but we will not stop highlighting the clear foreign interference whenever an ignorant individual "with no interest in Somalia issues" comes with a self-righteous attitude and wants to claim its all the fault of Somalis because they love war and bloodshed so much :nuts:, and ignores how vast swathes of the country are peaceful, not to mention the ICU period, where a native Somali group succesfully accomplished what a dozen foreign militaries have failed to deliver; peace in the South.

Notice how even the BBC - a non Somali media giant - highlights the various external actors destructive hand before the Somali ones, I guess they are on the Somali payroll: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-14291581.

:doh:

Arinze said this:

The blame is on everyone, the West is not the only "bad guy" in this thing but yes it did help get things to this point...

Would it kill you to bring it to a 4 every once in a while :laugh: I understand you are defending your country but Jesus its always 400+:crazy:

Haba :|

The some refers to some folk in here that believe the AU troops are raping left and right and will bring an AIDS epidemic, ignoring the large fact that Uganda is one of the hardest hit nations by the disease and is the bulk of AU presence and yet Somalia's rates are <1% :crazy:

:doh:

Arinze said this:



Would it kill you to bring it to a 4 every once in a while :laugh: I understand you are defending your country but Jesus its always 400+:crazy:

Haba :|



Lol I just came out of the shower, preparing to go out and then saw my laptop on. I quickly checked a few sites, and came upon this topic; Oasis' 1923th Somali bashing fest, and decided to reply wearing only my towel, clearly I didn't read all posts.

It's friday, fun day, who cares.:)

What a joke. :lol:

Lol I just came out of the shower, preparing to go out and then saw my laptop on. I quickly checked a few sites, and came upon this topic; Oasis' 1923th Somali bashing fest, and decided to reply wearing only my towel, clearly I didn't read all posts.

It's friday, fun day, who cares.:)

:lol::lol::lol:

http://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/z464/guulet/hosbitalturki.jpg

Our ancestors would be turning in their graves if they knew about all these foreign troops in Somalia.

I agree with you 100% and "afkaaga caano lagu qabey", sxb.

http://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/z464/guulet/hosbitalturki.jpg

Fancy hospital

http://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/z464/guulet/hosbitalturki.jpg

I'd love to see it in person. It looks lovely.

l_28jQRp20Y?version=3&

When the 2000 peace conference was held in Djibouti, I was under the impression that peace would come soon, I had no idea things would just get worse (Al Shabab, foreign invasions, famine) and that 11 years later I'd still wonder...:ohno:

Saddens me a lot....

The some refers to some folk in here that believe the AU troops are raping left and right and will bring an AIDS epidemic, ignoring the large fact that Uganda is one of the hardest hit nations by the disease and is the bulk of AU presence and yet Somalia's rates are <1% :crazy:

It is safe to assume that these foreign soldiers have committed rapes in the areas of Somalia they have been. Take Kenyan army for example, has committed rape atrocities within its own borders (Mt Elgon war crimes etc.) so why should we assume that they will not rape in Somalia ?

There are also reports of frequent rapes committed by the Ugandan army, recently (jan 2011) a group of senior Ugandan commandors were fired over the rapes they commited. Furthermore, in other reports the Ugandan army has been accused of using HIV as a weapon by raping and infecting 'target groups' deliberately (unrelated to Somalia).

In Kenya and Uganda 1.3 and 1.6 million people live with HIV respectively.

I am not saying that rape by foreign soldiers occurs on a huge scale, but even one rape, and it is safe to assume more than one rape has bee committed, is abhorent and regretable. Contrary to what you have said, if a woman is raped, regrettably, she would rather keep quiet about it so as to avoid the pain of going through the negative stigma, reactions and negative connotations of being raped in this conservative society.

As for Somalia having relatively low HIV infections, IMO I would say this is down to the Islamic and conservative nature of the society where 100% are muslim.

Worth watching:

4LOif-lSyR8

Edit: Just finished watching it. Man the situation there is heartbreaking. This mayor probably got the toughest job in the world, I wish him the best of luck.

^^ Just watched it today too...Nice doc indeed

When the 2000 peace conference was held in Djibouti, I was under the impression that peace would come soon, I had no idea things would just get worse (Al Shabab, foreign invasions, famine) and that 11 years later I'd still wonder...:ohno:

Saddens me a lot....

Aniga, waan maleynaya aduunkaan waa doonaya dagaalkaan.

l_28jQRp20Y?version=3&

When the 2000 peace conference was held in Djibouti, I was under the impression that peace would come soon, I had no idea things would just get worse (Al Shabab, foreign invasions, famine) and that 11 years later I'd still wonder...:ohno:

Saddens me a lot....

The Arta conference was the best; clean and well organized. But due to some greedy warlords backed by outside enemy it didn't materilized for us.:ohno:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-16083451

heavy fighting today in the capital

Ban Ki-moon's surprise Mogadishu trip is first by UN chief since 1993

Ban Ki-moon became the first UN Secretary-General to visit Somalia’s capital in almost 20 years on Friday, when he flew to Mogadishu for talks with the war-torn nation's political leaders.

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02079/Ban-Ki-moon_2079955b.jpg

His surprise trip, kept secret until the last minute for security reasons, came the day after Somalia's Islamist insurgents launched their fiercest attacks in weeks on peacekeepers on Mogadishu's northern outskirts.

Mr Ban wore a bullet-proof jacket throughout his tour, was accompanied by a phalanx of armed guards, and was moved between meetings in a convoy of speeding armoured personnel carriers.

He is the highest-profile figure to travel to Mogadishu in several years, and the first Secretary-General there since Boutros Boutros-Ghali in 1993.

"We are honoured today to visit Somalia and we are here to show the people of Somalia our solidarity and how the UN could help the people of Somalia to a better future," Mr Ban told a news conference in the city.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/somalia/8945643/Ban-Ki-moons-surprise-Mogadishu-trip-is-first-by-UN-chief-since-1993.html

Also, the UN Somalia HQ has been announced to be moving from Nairobi to Mogadishu next month. FINALLY. This means that they will finally have a real focus on the ground instead of being 1000 km away. The bureaucrats that don't want to leave Nairobi can be replaced by locals and those in the diaspora that are actually interested in helping Somalia recover.

^They remain as toothless as ever.

Interesting documentary about Somali piracy:

UqfYXczLIQs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UqfYXczLIQs

Djibouti troops join AU force in Somalia


Troops from Djibouti have arrived in Somalia's capital, Mogadishu, to bolster the 10,000-strong African Union (AU) force battling Islamist militants.

It is just the third country to contribute to the AU force, which says it needs extra troops to hold territory gained from the al-Shabab Islamists.

Kenya also says its troops in southern Somalia will join the AU force.

Al-Qaeda-linked al-Shabab is fighting to overthrow the UN-backed interim government.

It is estimated to have between 7,000 and 9,000 fighters and controls many southern and central areas of the country.

In August, it announced a tactical withdrawal from Mogadishu after fierce fighting with AU forces.

Broken promises

But the group has continued to detonate bombs in the city, killing five people in an attack at a busy junction earlier this month.

AU commanders say they need up to 20,000 troops to hold on to Mogadishu.
map

The BBC's Mohamed Dore in Mogadishu says a plane carrying the Djiboutian troops has landed in the city.

The AU mission said 100 soldiers had already arrived, with a further 800 to follow in the next week or so. Until now, the force only consisted of troops from Uganda and Burundi.

"We are desperately in need of military support to eliminate the threat of al-Shabab," said Somali security official Mohamed Abdirahman, according to the AFP news agency.

Other countries that have failed to fulfil promises to send troops include Nigeria and Malawi.

Djibouti borders Somalia and its people speak the same language.

Kenya sent troops in October to pursue al-Shabab after blaming it for a spate of abductions on its side of the border.

The group denies involvement in the abductions.

Somalia has not had a functioning central government for more than 20 years and has been convulsed by fighting between various militias.

The UN says it is the world's worst humanitarian situation, with famine conditions in three southern areas.

source (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-16267664)

http://i1187.photobucket.com/albums/z385/Moulhoule/ALeqM5jpigRQYQiDK7sjBf0R-1zb_D6SGw.jpg

http://i1187.photobucket.com/albums/z385/Moulhoule/_57440287_dji.jpg

Well done djibouti. About time ;)

Great documentary, musa. Hopefully some people in this forum sacrifice the time to watch it.

Getting that pirate money. One of the dudes had to make over $2 million. Hey...I'm not mad at cha.

Well done djibouti. About time ;)

Won't make a difference. None of these foreign invasions from neighbors will. Somalia needs institutions and strength within to recover, not handouts.

Won't make a difference. None of these foreign invasions from neighbors will. Somalia needs institutions and strength within to recover, not handouts.

Right on, I wonder how 200 dj soldiers are going to make any difference.

Won't make a difference. None of these foreign invasions from neighbors will. Somalia needs institutions and strength within to recover, not handouts.
1- Not invasion
2- Where will Somalia get its strength to beat down Al-Shabaab?
3- Symbolism of support from neighbours more local then Burundi/Uganda where there are strong ethnic/tribal links is sure to be of more use then Americans

Won't make a difference. None of these foreign invasions from neighbors will. Somalia needs institutions and strength within to recover, not handouts.

Some people care more about Al Shabab then Somalia. Really sad indeed.

Al Shabab evil, warlords good in eyes of the west.

1- Not invasion
2- Where will Somalia get its strength to beat down Al-Shabaab?
3- Symbolism of support from neighbours more local then Burundi/Uganda where there are strong ethnic/tribal links is sure to be of more use then Americans

1- Any foreign boots on the ground is an invasion in my opinion.

2- Simple, that is why instead in dumping money in funding corrupt warlord Swiss bank accounts, the "international community" should invest more into strengthening the Somali military to fight the terrorists themselves and then gaining the territory from them.

3- They are still outsiders who can't change the political situation. Putting 100 countries with troops is not going to solve the problem in Somalia. The only way that Somalia will be solved is by negotiation within and building from there. That is why Somaliland and Puntland never needed foreigners to pacify themselves.

The reality is that Al Shabab is weaker than ever and is ripe for divisions within. Negotiating with moderates and foot soldiers while attacking the leaders head on is the way to go, and it ultimately needs to be done by a Somali military that is competent and strong enough to hold on gains made by AMISOM and go offensively in other regions of Somalia. You can't expect to actually stop the war without their input or Somali input in general.

Some people care more about Al Shabab then Somalia. Really sad indeed.

Al Shabab evil, warlords good in eyes of the west.

Warlords can easily just say they are against terrorism and they are on the "good guy" side. That is why I don't support any side in that mindless conflict, every one is dirty. These guys have literally taken perhaps billions in the last few years and there is no transparency. Al Shabab might be crazier but the TFG is more corrupt.

]SOURCE: The New York Times; www.nytimes.com

December 27, 2011
For Somali Women, Pain of Being a Spoil of War
By JEFFREY GETTLEMAN

MOGADISHU, Somalia — The girl’s voice dropped to a hush as she remembered the bright, sunny afternoon when she stepped out of her hut and saw her best friend buried in the sand, up to her neck.

Her friend had made the mistake of refusing to marry a Shabab commander. Now she was about to get her head bashed in, rock by rock.

“You’re next,” the Shabab warned the girl, a frail 17-year-old who was living with her brother in a squalid refugee camp.

Several months later, the men came back. Five militants burst into her hut, pinned her down and gang-raped her, she said. They claimed to be on a jihad, or holy war, and any resistance was considered a crime against Islam, punishable by death.

“I’ve had some very bad dreams about these men,” she said, having recently escaped the area they control. “I don’t know what religion they are.”

Somalia has been steadily worn down by decades of conflict and chaos, its cities in ruins and its people starving. Just this year, tens of thousands have died from famine, with countless others cut down in relentless combat. Now Somalis face yet another widespread terror: an alarming increase in rapes and sexual abuse of women and girls.

The Shabab militant group, which presents itself as a morally righteous rebel force and the defender of pure Islam, is seizing women and girls as spoils of war, gang-raping and abusing them as part of its reign of terror in southern Somalia, according to victims, aid workers and United Nations officials. Short of cash and losing ground, the militants are also forcing families to hand over girls for arranged marriages that often last no more than a few weeks and are essentially sexual slavery, a cheap way to bolster their ranks’ flagging morale.

But it is not just the Shabab. In the past few months, aid workers and victims say there has been a free-for-all of armed men preying upon women and girls displaced by Somalia’s famine, who often trek hundreds of miles searching for food and end up in crowded, lawless refugee camps where Islamist militants, rogue militiamen and even government soldiers rape, rob and kill with impunity.

With the famine putting hundreds of thousands of women on the move — severing them from their traditional protection mechanism, the clan — aid workers say more Somali women are being raped right now than at any time in recent memory. In some areas, they say, women are being used as chits at roadblocks, surrendered to the gunmen staffing the barrier in the road so that a group of desperate refugees can pass.

“The situation is intensifying,” said Radhika Coomaraswamy, the United Nations’ special representative for children and armed conflict. All the recent flight has created a surge in opportunistic rapes, she said, and “for the Shabab, forced marriage is another aspect they are using to control the population.”

In the past two months, from Mogadishu alone, the United Nations says it has received more than 2,500 reports of gender-based violence, an unusually large number here. But because Somalia is a no-go zone for most operations, United Nations officials say they are unable to confirm the reports, leaving the work to fledgling Somali aid organizations under constant threat.

Somalia is a deeply traditional place, where 98 percent of girls are subject to genital cutting, according to United Nations figures. Most girls are illiterate and relegated to their homes. When they venture out, it is usually to work, trudging through the rubble-strewn alleyways wrapped head to toe in thick black cloth, often lugging something on their back, the equatorial sun burning down on them.

The famine and mass displacement, which began over the summer, have made women and girls more vulnerable. So many Somali communities have been disbanded, and with armed groups forcing men and boys into their militias, it is often single women, with children in tow, who set off on the dangerous odyssey to refugee camps.

At the same time, aid workers and United Nations officials say the Shabab, who are fighting Somalia’s transitional government and imposing a harsh version of Islam in the areas they control, can no longer pay their several thousand fighters the way they used to. Much as they seize crops and livestock, giving their militants what they call “temporary wives” is how the Shabab keep many young men fighting for them.

But these are hardly marriages, said Sheik Mohamed Farah Ali, a former Shabab commander who defected to the government army.

“There’s no cleric, no ceremony, nothing,” he said, adding that Shabab fighters had even paired up with thin little girls as young as 12, who are left torn and incontinent afterward. If a girl refuses, he said, “she’s killed by stones or bullets.”

One young woman just delivered a baby, half Somali, half Arab. She said she was selected by a Somali Shabab fighter she knew, brought to a house full of guns and handed off to a portly Arab commander, one of the many foreigners fighting for the Shabab.

“He did whatever he wanted with me,” she said. “Night and day.”

She said she escaped when he was sleeping.

The Elman Peace and Human Rights Center is one of the few Somali organizations helping rape victims, run by Fartuun Adan, a tall, outspoken woman whose husband, Elman, was gunned down by warlords years ago. Ms. Adan says that since the famine began, she has met hundreds of women who have been raped and hundreds more who have escaped forced marriages.

“You have no idea how difficult it is for them to come forward,” she said. “There’s no justice here, no protection, people say ‘You’re junk’ if you’ve been raped.”

Often, the women are left wounded or pregnant, forced to seek help. Ms. Adan wants to expand her medical services and counseling for rape victims and possibly open a safe house, but it is hard to do on a budget of $5,000 a month, provided by a small aid organization called Sister Somalia. Ms. Adan wept on a recent day as she listened to the 17-year-old girl recount the story of seeing her friend stoned to death and then being gang-raped herself.

“These girls ask me, ‘How am I going to get married, what’s going to be my future, what’s going to happen to me?’ ” she said. “We can’t answer that.”

Some of the women in Ms. Adan’s office seem to have come from another time. They have made it here, with help from Elman’s network, from the deepest recesses of rural Somalia, where women are still treated like chattel.

One 18-year-old who asked to go by Ms. Nur, her common last name, was married off at 10. She was a nomad and says that to this day she has never used a phone or seen a television.

She spoke of being raped by two Shabab fighters at a displaced-persons camp in October. She said the men did not bother saying much when they entered her hut. They just pointed their guns at her chest and uttered two words: stay silent.

The reality is that Al Shabab is weaker than ever and is ripe for divisions within.

Unfortunately, that notion was simply a media spotlight during the drought. Considering that they wore dirty civilian clothes and lacked funding or a base in their beginnings, they are far from going back to that.

I think everyone agrees that the drought hurt Al-Shabaab economically, but they've recovered in a shocking fashion. There's strong indications, especially after their bloody episode with the Burundian forces recently in Dayniile neighborhood of Mogadishu, that they have grown stronger than they were before the drought; perhaps attributable to the chaos in not-so-distant Arab states, I'm sure that the revolt in Yemen and breakdown in security has provided a very robust source of cheap weapons. Some of the statements I've heard from authentic Somali bloggers were quite surprising though not possible to rule out completely. One blogger stated, with considerably viable information, that the militants have for some time been planning a completely unique assault, he went on to hypothesize with a level of certainty that the militants could at any point in the near-future wipe out the TFG clan militias in the far southern regions and stage a blitz assault with enough force to capitulate AMISOM.

Its questionable but offers a unique set of results than what most would expect. Ethiopia has amassed along central Somalia but they are hesitating to make a move, and Kenya must have been shell-shocked to have changed up rhetoric and "goals" so quickly and to the point where they quite clearly have given up on any of their original goals and sought to cover its failure under the blanket of AMISOM.

Even those TFG militias who were estimated to be "many thousands" in number have been pealed back; the armed wing of Kenya's "Azania" proxy has been decimated and pushed back to the border of Kenya. Now all that remains is Ethiopia's "Jubbaland" proxy in Gedo and they have a very limited lifespan, which is directly the result of the relative weakness that Ethiopia has recently exhibited. There is a brigade of five thousand heavily-armed and mobile Ethiopian troops backed by numerous Somali factions literally a few hours outside of the major Al-Shabaab stronghold of Beletweyn -- my hometown :( -- and they are afraid to approach even the outer limits the militants' territory despite there being no more than two thousand fighters in the environs consisting mainly of loosely incorporated local militias. I think maybe after a few of the more recent encounters these various armed groups have had with Al-Shabaab revealed a newer more advanced strategy, its the only thing making sense amidst recent developments that showed the militants taking back territory widening their organization. Only Allah knows that's going on.

The explanation is simple. If the people in charge of the TFG had a half their brains invested in actually being competent instead of going for more welfare from the world, those random clan militias would have been incorporated into the Somali military a loooong time ago. I don't get how they never consolidated power in areas where they had friendly support. Even with Ethiopia breathing down the border area's neck. The problem is not that Al Shabab is doing incredibly well, it's simply taking advantage of TFG incompetence.

Although I detest Al Shabab with all my heart, I believe that they are one of the best run Somali militias since the war started.

TFG = True Failure Guaranteed.

Although I detest Al Shabab with all my heart, I believe that they are one of the best run Somali militias since the war started.

TFG = True Failure Guaranteed.

Afgaaka cano lagu qabey.

Ruunta ma sheegin?

Djibouti's president interview on country's troops sent to Somalia (in Somali)

Daawo Waraysiga Madaxweyne Geelle:

Part 1 (http://www.bbc.co.uk...ti_geelle.shtml)
Part 2 (http://www.bbc.co.uk...i_geelle2.shtml)

Ruunta ma sheegin?

:lol:

waad u soo dhawaatey laakin.:)

Interesting times in Northern Somalia. SSC is now officially a state within Somalia and has support from the tribal elders from the clan. A major conference took place recently. It seems that the majority of the Dervish clan is now united and had enough of both Puntland and Somaliland respectively. SSC is a major threat to Somaliland hence why they tried to attack Buuhoodle the capital of SSC only to be fought off by locals.

Federalism is now unstoppable within Somalia, also talks about Awdal state is already heating up.:cheers:

Skyscraper city is a state in Somalia? :lol:

The Nomadic Warrior,

Sxb ma' aha inaad waxan oo kalee ajanebi dhexdeed ka bilowdid. Waa wax laga xumaado in ay Somaali isku dilayaan tuulo yar. Ayadoo already wadankeena magaciisi baa'ba'ay, waa inaga 'self'-bahdilnimo inaynu hadana ajahanab xumaanteena hor keeno oo ku dheho "kaalaya eega meeshii yareyd ee nabad ka jirtay yaa laysky dilay!" :ohno:

Hadii aad doonaysid inaad waxyaaba oo kale ka hadashid waxa adiga iyo inagaba inoo dhaanta adigoo forums ka somaali leedahay, oo dhowr ah, ad ku samaysid.

Fadlan inaga daa, oo baa'bi'i ama masax waxan aad qortay. mahadsanid.

Ilaahay ha qaboojiyo dagaalada hana u sahlo shacabka.

The Nomadic Warrior,

Sxb ma' aha inaad waxan oo kalee ajanebi dhexdeed ka bilowdid. Waa wax laga xumaado in ay Somaali isku dilayaan tuulo yar. Ayadoo already wadankeena magaciisi baa'ba'ay, waa inaga 'self'-bahdilnimo inaynu hadana ajahanab xumaanteena hor keeno oo ku dheho "kaalaya eega meeshii yareyd ee nabad ka jirtay yaa laysky dilay!" :ohno:

Hadii aad doonaysid inaad waxyaaba oo kale ka hadashid waxa adiga iyo inagaba inoo dhaanta adigoo forums ka somaali leedahay, oo dhowr ah, ad ku samaysid.

Fadlan inaga daa, oo baa'bi'i waxan aad qortay. mahadsanid.

Ilaahay ha qaboojiyo dagaalada hana u sahlo shacabka.

Anaaba la yaabey waxa uu ninkan meesha ku qorey. Ma u maleynaayo in uu af-somali fahmaayo.

January, 16, 2012 - QOL - The United Nations has discounted reports that Eritrea supplied weapons to the Al-Shabaab militant group to fight Kenyan troops last year.

A UN Security Council assessment report for December said investigations had established that Eritrea did not supply the weapons as alleged by the Kenya Defence Forces.

“The Monitoring Group also pursued its investigation into alleged arms deliveries by air to the Al-Shabaab controlled airfields in Southern Somalia in late October and early November 2011, the report reads in part.

"The SEMG’s preliminary assessment is that these reports were incorrect and that the alleged deliveries to Baidoa probably did not take place."

Military spokesman Major Emmanuel Chirchir had claimed that at least three aircraft had landed at the Baidoa airstrip in southern Somalia carrying weapons to the militants.

"We know Baidoa is being used to deliver weapons,” Maj Chirchir was quoted at the time and warned that Kenyan troops would shoot down any aircraft overflying Southern Somalia.

“Every time we have a delivery, we are going to take that aircraft down. All aircraft are hereby warned not to land in Baidoa," Maj Chirchir said in a statement on his Twitter account.

"Anyone violating this will be doing so at their peril. Further unauthorised flying over the region will be considered a threat.”

Foreign Affairs minister Moses Wetangula also summoned Eritrean ambassador to Kenya, Mr Beyene Russom to his office to explain Asmara’s alleged links to the militants.

Eritrea through its Foreign Affairs ministry vehemently denied the claims branding them as part of Ethiopia’s campaign of misinformation to discredit Asmara.

On Monday, the Eritrean embassy in Nairobi demanded independent investigations into the matter.

“Eritrea has requested a full, fair and independent investigation to be conducted by UNSC to the above mentioned allegation and all other unfounded related accusations,” a statement from the embassy read.

Source: Africa Review

^ What did Kenya base its accusation on ??

---

I can't take that Chirchir guy serious after watching his [attempt at a] press conference. He's a plonker ... who on earth would say "we arrested 5 donkeys" - not even my 5 year old nephew :ohno: :lol: Whats even worse is that he is still in his job which means that his superiors do not know better either .... he has made a joke of the entire Kenyan army.

Skyscraper city is a state in Somalia? :lol:

:rofl:

SSC is a major threat to Somaliland hence why they tried to attack Buuhoodle the capital of SSC only to be fought off by locals.
So this article is a lie?

http://somalilandpress.com/breaking-news-somaliland-army-takes-control-of-buhoodle-26046

^ Ha u jawaabina kan war-doon ka ah.

:|

I don't know what you wrote, but I just want to know if Somalilandpress is a reliable source since they sometimes write articles in relation to Ethiopia, that's all.

:|

I don't know what you wrote, but I just want to know if Somalilandpress is a reliable source since they sometimes write articles in relation to Ethiopia, that's all.

:| Right... I will let you figure that one out for yourself then buddy.

:| Right... I will let you figure that one out for yourself then buddy.
I tried, by reading the comments, which didn't help since people are writing different version. Anyways, nevermind.

Anyways, nevermind.

:yes:

@Yonii

I hope your not undercover agent for Wayone.

January, 16, 2012 - QOL - The United Nations has discounted reports that Eritrea supplied weapons to the Al-Shabaab militant group to fight Kenyan troops last year.

A UN Security Council assessment report for December said investigations had established that Eritrea did not supply the weapons as alleged by the Kenya Defence Forces.

The Ethiopians [and some] Kenyans must be heartbroken :lol:

Chirchir chatting shit as usual :ohno:

@Yonii

I hope your not undercover agent for Wayone.

:lol::lol::lol: LMAO

^^^

Yonii Somalilandpress is very reliable, and that article is very true, don't listen that faggot named TNW

^^^

Yonii Somalilandpress is very reliable, and that article is very true, don't listen that faggot named TNW

maxaad ugu jawaabtay ? What difference does it make wuxuu Somaliland ka maleeyo :ohno: Wuxuu doonayay inuu inteenan forumkan joogta muran ka dhex bilaabo ee naga daa sxb.

'Dabintii' ayaad toos uu dhex gashay :lol:

The Ethiopians [and some] Kenyans must be heartbroken :lol:

Chirchir chatting shit as usual :ohno:

That's just one incident among many. It's clear that Eritrea has indeed supplied Somali Islamists.

I know you're desperate to criticize Ethiopia and Kenya but it is they who represent peace and progress in the region, not the Islamists.

Eritrea has indeed supplied Somali Islamists.

So you believe that... interesting. Why would Eritrea do that ?

^^^

Yonii Somalilandpress is very reliable, and that article is very true
Haven't any other media reported about it? (international or non-biased)

^ Ha u jawaabina kan war-doon ka ah.

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

Those skirmishes over the Sool and Sanaag provinces are so pointless, they have been going on for a decade now. It would have been nice if Somaliland and Puntland just merged into a strong north Somali state. I don't see the point why these two separate states exists when they are essentially the same.

^^ I agree. It would have been good if Somaliland and Puntland merge and the central government starts from there. They would just have to step by step pacify the South while the rest of the country wouldn't be paralyzed waiting for the south to come out of it's lethargy as it is the case now.

Uh oh. Oil drilling.

I sense only bad things can happen. Oil has a tendency of corrupting Africans :ohno:

Wouldn't care if Puntland and Somaliland merged but what is the likelihood? The only condition I would put on it is that the democracy would have to remain intact and relection would have to occur.

Edit: Oh and Somaliland's independence from Somalia remains non negotiable (unless chosen in referendum to join which frankly if Puntland joined Somaliland may actually happen). On second thoughts, perhaps we should forget merging. :doh:

Those skirmishes over the Sool and Sanaag provinces are so pointless, they have been going on for a decade now. It would have been nice if Somaliland and Puntland just merged into a strong north Somali state. I don't see the point why these two separate states exists when they are essentially the same.

^^ I agree. It would have been good if Somaliland and Puntland merge and the central government starts from there. They would just have to step by step pacify the South while the rest of the country wouldn't be paralyzed waiting for the south to come out of it's lethargy as it is the case now.

Ok, are you guys literally serious? Puntland and Somaliland joining into one state is outrageous thinking. This will never happen; such words wouldn’t even be uttered in reality. Somaliland has numerous times threaten Puntland and its mere existence and vice versa. Puntland wants to remain in Somalia with greater autonomy while Somaliland doesn’t believe in joining Somalia. Heck, the people from Sool, Saanag and Cayn have made it clear that neither Somaliland nor Puntland serve their people’s best interest at heart. Hence, why they had a huge conference and created their own federal state within Somalia.

Ok, are you guys literally serious? Puntland and Somaliland joining into one state is outrageous thinking. This will never happen; such words wouldn’t even be uttered in reality. Somaliland has numerous times threaten Puntland and its mere existence and vice versa. Puntland wants to remain in Somalia with greater autonomy while Somaliland doesn’t believe in joining Somalia. Heck, the people from Sool, Saanag and Cayn have made it clear that neither Somaliland nor Puntland serve their people’s best interest at heart. Hence, why they had a huge conference and created their own federal state within Somalia.

As you said it's unlikely, especially with this oil business that's going on. However, it still would be ideal if they merged. Those pointless Sool-Sanaag quarrels may end and with more resources (combined of pland and sland) more can be achieved. Khatumo state isn't going anywhere, it's a useless project that will certainly fail and will always be overshadowed by Somaliland and Puntland.

Ok, are you guys literally serious? Puntland and Somaliland joining into one state is outrageous thinking. This will never happen; such words wouldn’t even be uttered in reality. Somaliland has numerous times threaten Puntland and its mere existence and vice versa. Puntland wants to remain in Somalia with greater autonomy while Somaliland doesn’t believe in joining Somalia. Heck, the people from Sool, Saanag and Cayn have made it clear that neither Somaliland nor Puntland serve their people’s best interest at heart. Hence, why they had a huge conference and created their own federal state within Somalia.

:rofl: Somaliland has threatened Puntland numerous times and threatened it's existence? News to me.

SSC is Somaliland territory. The only way it'll change is Somaliland redrawing the borders of it's own free will. It won't be bullied by some arrogant fools who believe it is their god given right through distant tribal links to dictate to Somaliland what it can and cannot do in its own territory!

I’m going to keep it simple. Listen, Musa you are from Puntland and Lailax you are from Somaliland. Both of you have a vested interest in the region while I personally don’t. Somaliland needs the region to create its independent state while Puntland wants the region based on tribal links and natural resources.

But the matter of the case, is both states have failed the Dervish people greatly especially Puntland in my honest opinion. They had a conference gathering all major tribal elders and have created their own state and chosen the route of self determination. No longer will their fate be determined in Garowe or Hargesia but rather Buuhoodle their heartland. It’s time to accept the reality; the Dervish people have had enough and created their own regional state much like Somaliland and Puntland. Majority of the Somali people support them and have their blessing. They have already begun talks with TFG for financing and logistic support.

There is no stopping federalism in Somalia and it’s time to stop with clan imperialism. SSC is a reality and the next state will most likely be Awdal and Hiiiran officially. No point fighting against this new political phenomenon in Somalia but rather accept it as one of the many political routes necessary to pacify the country once and for all.

I don't mind it going it's seperate way but it is for Puntland to mind it's own business and leave it to Somaliland and SSC to come to an arrangement.

I don't care if the South goes federal but I doubt clan links will somehow dimish. This new religious craze that has taken hold is just a phase and will fade out eventually and the only thing that is certain with Somalis is that where they are, clan politics soon follows. Federalism will not change and will infact probably cement it.
"Counties" will split up no doubt according to regions where one qabil dominates etc.

I am thinking of making my own state, Dawlaada Xuseinyiia. With all these hotel states people keep on making, why can't I make my own? Seriously, this is so ridiculous.

I’m going to keep it simple. Listen, Musa you are from Puntland and Lailax you are from Somaliland. Both of you have a vested interest in the region while I personally don’t. Somaliland needs the region to create its independent state while Puntland wants the region based on tribal links and natural resources.

But the matter of the case, is both states have failed the Dervish people greatly especially Puntland in my honest opinion. They had a conference gathering all major tribal elders and have created their own state and chosen the route of self determination. No longer will their fate be determined in Garowe or Hargesia but rather Buuhoodle their heartland. It’s time to accept the reality; the Dervish people have had enough and created their own regional state much like Somaliland and Puntland. Majority of the Somali people support them and have their blessing. They have already begun talks with TFG for financing and logistic support.

There is no stopping federalism in Somalia and it’s time to stop with clan imperialism. SSC is a reality and the next state will most likely be Awdal and Hiiiran officially. No point fighting against this new political phenomenon in Somalia but rather accept it as one of the many political routes necessary to pacify the country once and for all.

I wish them all the best but I honestly have very little faith in these mini-states. It reminds me of Maakhir, nothing really came out of it.

Somalia's al-Shabab attack Ethiopian base in Beledweyne

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-16697879

I am thinking of making my own state, Dawlaada Xuseinyiia. With all these hotel states people keep on making, why can't I make my own? Seriously, this is so ridiculous.

:lol: I agree, its just laughable:down:

UN Opens Office in Somali Capital After 17 YearsThe United Nations has opened a political office in the Somali capital, Mogadishu, after a 17-year absence.

The U.N. special representative for Somalia, Ambassador Augustine Mahiga, arrived at the Mogadishu airport on Tuesday where he was greeted by Prime Minister Abdiweli Mohamed Ali and other government and diplomatic officials.

Mahiga expressed hope the opening of the U.N. political office would bring “renewed hope for the future of Somalia.” He said the new location will help the world body work more closely with Somalia's Transitional Federal Government.

The Somali government is struggling to tamp down a violent insurgency and handle a wide scale humanitarian crisis caused by drought, famine and ongoing conflict.

The U.N. moved its political office from Mogadishu to Nairobi, Kenya in 1995 because of persistent instability in the east African nation.

During a historic visit to the Somali capital last month, U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon warned the government has a limited window of opportunity to restore stability to the country.

The trip marked the first visit to Mogadishu by a U.N. chief since 1993, two years after the country's last stable government collapsed.http://blogs.voanews.com/breaking-news/2012/01/24/un-opens-office-in-somali-capital-after-17-years/

Alshabab attack Ethiopian Base

Ethiopian Compound Attacked by Suicide Bomber Inside Somalia


Jan. 24 (Bloomberg) -- A suicide bomber detonated a minibus full of explosives outside a compound in southwestern Somalia that houses Ethiopian troops, an official said. Al-Shabaab, the al-Qaeda-linked militia, claimed responsibility for the attack and said 33 Ethiopian soldiers were killed.

“An Ethiopian soldier fired on the minibus before it entered the compound and the attacker exploded himself at the front gate,” Sheikh Ahmed Abdullahi, an official from the pro- Somali-government Ahlu Sunna Wal Jama’a militia, said in a mobile-phone interview today from Beledweyne, near the Ethiopian border. “No casualties were reported.”

Ethiopian soldiers entered Somalia last month to help government forces capture Beledweyne from al-Shabaab, which controls most of southern and central Somalia. Their incursion began after Kenya sent armed forces into the neighboring country in mid-October to pursue al-Shabaab and secure its borders.

Al-Shabaab said that among the Ethiopian troops killed were four “senior” commanders, according to an e-mailed statement from the group. Ethiopian Foreign Ministry spokesman Dina Mufti didn’t answer his mobile phone when called today, while Communications Minister Bereket Simon’s mobile phone was switched off when Bloomberg tried to reach him for comment.

“The Beledweyne operation is part of the new strategy adopted by the mujahedeen as a bold response to the increasingly hostile enemies that have invaded Somalia,” al-Shabaab said. As many as 72 soldiers were injured, while two army trucks and a car parked in the compound were destroyed, it said.

Ethiopia’s intervention in Somalia is its second since 2006. Its forces withdrew in January 2009 after pushing the Islamic Courts Union out of Mogadishu, and later becoming bogged down in a guerrilla war with Islamic militants.


http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-01-24/ethiopian-compound-attacked-by-suicide-bomber-inside-somalia.html

Seems like there were clashes again in Somaliland, apparently quite bad if the phone call we had was anything to go by

Man, I hear some good news about Somalis (the oil finds, better business exposure) and then get back to reality with this idiocy.

Politics. :bash:

We certainly know who fault it is with this unprovoked aggression. :ohno:

We certainly know who fault it is with this unprovoked aggression. :ohno:

I don't but do tell me how you know full details of what occurred and who is responsible for what in the skirmishes. Are you there?

^ Seriously guys just cut it out. PM each other if you wanna debate this stuff. :ohno:

Thursday, February 02, 2012
By Abdi Sheikh


http://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/z464/guulet/whague-front.jpg

MOGADISHU (Reuters) - Britain appointed its first ambassador to Somalia for 21 years on Thursday during a visit to the capital of the anarchic Horn of Africa nation by Foreign Secretary William Hague.

It was the first visit to Mogadishu by a British foreign minister since 1992 and comes ahead of a conference in London this month to discuss measures to tackle instability in Somalia and piracy off its shores.

Britain's new envoy to Somalia, Matt Baugh, will remain based in Kenya's capital Nairobi until security conditions permit the opening of an embassy in Mogadishu.



Somalia descended into chaos after dictator Mohamed Siad Barre was ousted in 1991 and a Western-backed transition government has been battling local al Qaeda-linked insurgents al Shabaab for the past five years.

At the moment, there are six diplomatic missions in Mogadishu, representing Djibouti, Ethiopia, Libya, Sudan, Turkey and Yemen. The U.N.'s special envoy to Somalia also moved to Mogadishu last month.

An African Union force (AMISOM) in Mogadishu has helped drive al Shabaab out of the capital, but much of the south of remains in the hands of the rebels. Kenya and Ethiopia have both sent forces into Somalia to battle al Shabaab.

Analysts say the departure of al Shabaab from the capital, combined with the offensives by neighbouring states, has opened a window of opportunity to defeat the hardline militants, although Mogadishu remains prone to almost daily bomb attacks.

"We need to step this up. We are not complacent about it," Hague said, describing Somalia as "the world's most failed state".

"For the security of the UK, it matters a lot for Somalia to become a more stable place," he said. "Some progress has been made on this, partly because of the progress of the AMISOM force."

DISRUPT TERRORIST NETWORKS

Al Shabaab struck Uganda in 2010, killing nearly 80 people watching the soccer World Cup final. The militants have launched a series of grenade and roadside bomb attacks in Kenya since it sent troops into Somalia in October.

Britain has warned it is only a matter of time before Islamist militants trained in Somalia strike on British soil.

"One of the objectives of our conference in London is to strengthen counter-terrorism cooperation to make it easier for countries in this region to disrupt terrorist networks, to disrupt their financing and the movement of potential terrorists," Hague said.

Hague's visit came as Kenyan and Somali troops seized two towns in southern Somalia from al Shabaab in a bid to consolidate control of border areas, a Kenyan military spokesman said, ahead of an eventual push on rebel strongholds.

Kenyan ground forces entered Hosungow, near the Kenyan border, on Wednesday after air strikes over the weekend weakened the al Shabaab rebel group's defensive positions, Emmanuel Chirchir told Reuters.

"Capturing Hosungow is important for denying Shabaab their rearguard operations," Chirchir said on Wednesday.

While Kenya's near four-month military campaign inside Somalia has dislodged al Shabaab from several towns in the border area, the militants have retreated into the bush and regularly ambush the Kenyan forces on key supply routes.

Al Shabaab denied Chirchir's claim several insurgents had been killed in a battle for Hosungow and said its fighters were based outside the town at the time Kenyan troops advanced.

Further south towards Somalia's Indian Ocean coastline, Somali government troops regained control of Badhaadhe late on Wednesday. Kenyan troops were stationed within "firing distance". (Additional reporting by Abdirahman Hussein in Mogadishu, Richard Lough and David Clarke in Nairobi; Writing by David Clarke; Editing by Giles Elgood)


Source: Reuters

The conference will be a failure, mark my words.

^^ x2
I predict failure

^^ I hope it succeeds. lol at these *ethnic somalilanders* above. Y'all mad Britain dumped ya? :D

The conference will be a failure, mark my words.

I have no idea what this so called conference is going to achieve.

Just waste of time and british tax buyer money.

^^ x2

I hope it succeeds. lol at these *ethnic somalilanders* above. Y'all mad Britain dumped ya? :D

:lol:
No need to feel anger at all when I know nothing will come of this and if it does, it'll collapse within 12 months.

PR Stunt on UK's behalf as the PM wants to be seen as doing something and just a waste of Brits taxmoney

Whats with all the fuzz about maakhir and khaatumo states? what is happening in the north of Somalia? why is Silaanyo going into this conference? will they find oil in Puntland? if so, will they secede as well?

Can someone with knowledge please explain me what's actually going on there. It seems we're living an interesting time in Somali history.

^^The only time I've ever heard of the Maakhir state is online:nuts:

Whats with all the fuzz about maakhir and khaatumo states? what is happening in the north of Somalia? why is Silaanyo going into this conference? will they find oil in Puntland? if so, will they secede as well?

Can someone with knowledge please explain me what's actually going on there. It seems we're living an interesting time in Somali history.

Khaatumo is still developing, though its unsure which part they'll have in the conference, if at all. Maakhir today is a municipality under Puntland since their reunion in 2008. The north is quiet right now. Silaanyo is going because its more practical than not going. No one knows if Puntland will show oil for another few weeks, and their leaders have repeatedly stated that they have no desire to secede.

^^ I hope it succeeds. lol at these *ethnic somalilanders* above. Y'all mad Britain dumped ya? :D

I don't care about Britain.

I don't want it to fail, I know it will fail because it lacks the legitimacy that it should have on the ground.

List of leaders attending Somalia conference

1- Ra”iisulwasaaraha Australia: Kevin Rudd ( Australian Foreign Minister)

2- Madaxweynaha Burundi: Pierre Nkurunziza ( President of Burundi)

3-Wasiirka Arimaha Dibada John Bird( Foreign Minister of Canada).

4-Zhong Jianhua. China special representative for African Affairs.

5-Wasiirka Arimaha Dibada Denmark Villy Sovndal. Danish (Denmark Foreign Minister)

6-Madaxweynaha Djibouti :Ismail Omar Gelle- (Djibouti President).

7-Wasiirka Arimaha Dibada Masar Mohammed Amir-(Egypt foreign Minister).

8-Ra’iisulwasaaraha Ithopia Melez Zenawi -( Ethiopian Prime Minister).

9- Midowga Yurub Catherine Ashton ( EU)

10-Madaxweynaha Tarja Holen-( Finland President).

11-Ra’iisulwasaarada Germany Michael Link-(Minister of state of Germany).

12-Xoghaya Urur Goboleedka IGAD Mahboub Maalim-(Executive secretary of IGAD).

13-Wasiirka Arimaha Dibada E. J. (Hindia Foreingn Minister).

14-Wasiirka Arimaha Dibada Talyaaniga Giulio Terzi-(Italian foreign minister).

15-Madaxweynaha Kenya Kibaki-(President of Kenya).

16-Wasiirka Arimaha Dibada :Uriel Rosenthal(Netherlands foreign minister)

17-Madaxweynaha Naigeria :Jonathan Good luck( Nigerian President).

18-ururka Jaamacada Carabta Nabil Al-Aarabi(Arab League States).

19-Wasiirka Degaanka Norway Mr Erick Solheim-(Minister of Environment and International Development of Norway).

20-Wasiirka Arimaha Dibada Luxemburg :Mr Jean Asselborn(Foreign Minister of Luxemburg).

21-Wasiirka Arimaha Dibada Afghanistaan Hina Rabbani(Foreign minister of Afghanistan).

22-Wasiirka Arimaha Dibada Qadar Hamad Bin Jassim(Foreign minister of Qatar).

23-Wasiirka Arimaha Dibada Sacuudiga -Prince Saud.( Foreign minister of Saudi Arabia).

24-Madaxweynaha Puntland Abdirhmaan Faroole(President of Puntland).

25-Madaxweynaha Uganda Musevani (Ugandan President).

26-Xoghaya Qaramada Midoobay Ban Ki-Moon (United Nations Secretary General).

17-Wasiirka Arimaha Dibada Turkiga Ahmet Davutoglu-( Turkish foreign minister)

18-Wasiirka Arimaha Dibada Imaaraatka Abdullah Bin Zaeyd Al-Nahyan(UAE Foreign Minister).

19-Xogyaha Arimaha Dibada Maraynka Hilary Clinton (Secretary of state).

20-Ra’iisulwasaaraha Soomaaliya Prof Abduwali Gaas ( Prime minister of Somalia).

21-Madaxweynaha Soomaaliya Sheikh Sharif (Somali president).

22-Madaxweynaha Tanzania Jakaya Mrisho(Tanzanian President)

23-Madaxweynaha Somaliland Ahmed Siilaanyo(Northern Somali president)

24-ururka Islaamka Prof Ekmeleddin Ihsanologu (Organsation of Islamic Countries).

25-Ururka Midowga Afrika Jean Ping. (African Union).

This is going to be a huge conference, :cheers:

^^ Indeed.

http://www.aminarts.com/Cartoon_jpg/18_FEB_2012.jpg

http://www.aminarts.com/Cartoon_jpg/1_FEB_2012%20copy.jpg

^^ I see what you did there ;)

But Hey you nomadic, what's your views on Somalia's current situation? and what do you expect out of this conference? and the future of Somalia?

Somalia: Far from a failed state?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-17080664

I would love to be at that conference now if it wasn't for work.
I'd kill to see family members protesting :rofl:

^^ protesting against who though? if it is against Silanyo then im afraid they must be confused and might have lost track of who's side they really on :D.

^^ :nuts:

Anyway, a good editorial I found.

Getting Somalia Right This Time
By ALEX DE WAAL
Published: February 21, 2012

Prime Minister David Cameron of Britain will convene a big international meeting on Somalia on Thursday. The tasks: stopping piracy in the Indian Ocean, uprooting terrorism, relieving a famine and ending a civil war. The approach: Western ships, U.S. drones, African soldiers and international money for the Transitional Federal Government in Mogadishu.

This is all very laudable, except for one thing: It won’t work.

The transitional government, established in 2004, has no credibility, in part because it could not exist without foreign backing. In fact, many Somalis don’t want a central government. Or, to be exact, they are so embittered by their experience of centralized power that they would rather have no government than the type that their African neighbors and the West have designed for them.


More in Link --> http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/22/opinion/getting-somalia-right-this-time.html

^^ so what are they protesting? :nuts:

Diplomatic recognition, I think. There is/was a demonstration at 10 Downing Street today I believe.

^^ :nuts:

Anyway, a good editorial I found.



More in Link --> http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/22/opinion/getting-somalia-right-this-time.html

So what is the solution then?

Yes Somaliland and Puntland are stable and functioning, no one disputes that. But southern Somalia is a whole different story and that's what all these "peace efforts" are targeting. The article says that the two above used traditional systems and Islam to establish peaceful regions. Why didn't that happen in southern Somalia? Perhaps the solutions from northern Somalia won't work there either.

^^

Instead of gathering Somalia’s discredited politicians and promising them more help, Cameron should support what already functions well in Somalia: the vibrant middle class and Somaliland. Britain, and other donors, should empower Somali businessmen with lines of credit and an improved system to regulate money transfers; Somalia needs a chamber of commerce before it needs a cabinet. Somaliland also needs support: investment partnerships and diplomatic recognition.

Politically, the reality is that a central government is 100% not going to happen in Somalia. The solution is backing a federal government structure in the capital, there are semblances of this in the South (Galmudug, Ximan and Xeeb, and the still fictional Jubbaland). A bottom up approach rather than a top down one.

Yeah I read that part, but I think it's unrealistic to expect that will lead to a nation. How does creating a chamber of commerce change things? Second, who on earth will give lines of credit to unknown people??? It's hard enough to get credit when you live a documented life, with collateral and credit reports. How is someone whose identity is not even legally documented going to get access to credit from foreign institutions and nations?

Somaliland should be recognized, I do agree with that.

Somalis do the financial stuff pretty fine on their own, they don't really need help for that. The problem is that Western nations screwing things up by freezing networks because of "terrorist ties" instead of working with communities to catch the perpetrators.

I think it's unrealistic to think a "government" created by foreigners for foreigners and is dependent on foreigners is supposedly going to have the power to control all 637,000 square km of the country and will be a central administration. That's what I consider fiction! :lol:

My point is, Somalia was pretty much left alone after the Black Hawk fiasco up until the UIC. During that time Somaliland and Puntland emerged, but southern Somalia remained lawless. AFAIK there was no freezing of financial networks or anything like that during that time period, there was no TFG, etc. Southern Somalia and Somaliland had the exact same treatment, but one evolved into a peaceful democratic unified region, whereas the other stayed exactly as chaotic. Why didn't this stability emerge in southern Somalia? I think blaming the West for freezing networks is going off on a tangent. Those networks were frozen very recently, and as a result of the lawlessness - they're not the cause.

My point is, Somalia was pretty much left alone after the Black Hawk fiasco up until the UIC. During that time Somaliland and Puntland emerged, but southern Somalia remained lawless. AFAIK there was no freezing of financial networks or anything like that during that time period, there was no TFG, etc. Southern Somalia and Somaliland had the exact same treatment, but one evolved into a peaceful democratic unified region, whereas the other stayed exactly as chaotic. Why didn't this stability emerge in southern Somalia? I think blaming the West for freezing networks is going off on a tangent. Those networks were frozen very recently, and as a result of the lawlessness - they're not the cause.

Freezing networks is actually very important, it is the nation's lifeblood at the moment, but I will digress.

It is not as simplistic as you made it look. Somaliland was pretty much left alone from the outside after 1991 but had several years of infighting and skirmishes between the people. It wasn't until 97-98 that the administration gained enough power to project enough power to gain control of most of it's territory, and even to this day, there are issues in the east. It had no foundations when it was developed with wrecked infrastructure and had to be built from the bottom up, and developed it's government with parliamentary and then presidential elections...it took walks before it ran. Puntland is similar but it isn't as democratic and is a bit more testy. In the case of the TFG, none of this was done.

The difference was the leadership. The leaders further north were more altruistic than in the south. Also, diversity. Southern Somalia is more diverse and had no leader that was able to project it's power on the entire population. They were fighting to get this. This is why Islam was such an attractive unifier, if being Somali wasn't good enough. Eventually this opposition did unify and got rid of the warlords but unfortunately we know the rest.

And foreign interference did play a role, it is no tangent. Ultimately it is Somalis fault for Somalia's current situation but the fact that billions of dollars have been pumped into a failed state with no accountability or questioning while not supporting the strengths that could potentially "fix" it. The current setup created dependency and less of an incentive to develop.

Al-Barakaat was shut down right after 911. Thus leading into many people losing their deposit.

Attendee list

List of attendees for the London Conference on Somalia:


African Union
Chairperson of the African Union
African Union Commission
Chair - Mr Jean Ping
ASWJ
Mr Hersi Mohamed Hilol
Australia
Secretary - Dept of Foreign Affairs - Dennis Richardson
Brazil
Vice Minister for Africa and the Middle East - Mr Paulo Cordeiro de Andrade Pinto
Burundi
President - Mr Pierre Nkurunziza
Canada
Minister of Foreign Affairs - Minister John Baird
China
Chinese Government Special Representative on Africa - Mr Jianhua Zhong
Denmark
Minister for Foreign Affairs - Mr Villy Søvndal
Djibouti
President of the Republic - Ismail Omar Guelleh
Egypt
Minister of Foreign Affairs - Mr Mohammed Kamel Amr
Ethiopia
Prime Minister - Mr Meles Zenawi Asres
EU
EU High Representative for Foreign Affairs and Security Policy - Baroness Catherine Ashton
Finland
President of the Republic - Ms Tarja Kaarina Halonen

Minister for International Development - Ms Heidi Anneli Hautala

France
French Minister of Foreign Affairs - Mr Allan Juppe
Galmudug
President Galmudug State of Somalia - Mr Mohamed Ahmed Alin
Germany
Foreign Minister - Mr Guido Westerwelle
IGAD
Executive Secretary - Mr Mahboob Mohamoud Maalim
India
Minister of State for External Affairs Mr Edappakath Ahamed
Italy
Minister for Foreign Affairs - Mr Guiliomaria Terzi
Japan
Parliamentary Senior Vice Minister for Foreign Affairs - Mr Ryuji Yamane
Kenya
President - Hon. Mwai Kibaki
Kuwait
Ambassador - Khaleed Al Duwisan
League of Arab States
Secretary General of The Arab League - Dr Nabil Elaraby
Luxembourg
Vice Prime Minister and Minister of Foreign Affairs - Mr Jean Asselborn
Mauritius
Prime Minister - Dr Navinchandra Ramgoolam
Mayor of Mogadishu
Governor of Benadir Region and Mayor of Mogadishu - Mr Mohamoud Ahmed Nur
Netherlands
Minister of Foreign Affairs - Mr Uri Rosenthal
Nigeria
President - Dr. Goodluck Ebele Jonathan
Norway
Minister of Environment and International Development - Erik Solheim
Oman
Foreign Affairs Minister - Mr Yousuf Ibrahim
Organisation of the Islamic Countries
Secretary General - Dr Ekmeleddin Ihsanoglu
Pakistan
Foreign Minister - Ms Hina Rabbani Khar
Puntland
President of Puntland - Abdirahman Mohamud
Qatar
Minister of State for Foreign Affairs - Dr Khalid Bin Mohammad Al Attiyah
Russia
Special Representative of the President of the Russian Federation for Cooperation with African Countries, Chairman of the Council of The Federation Of The Federation Committee for Foreign Affairs - Mr Mikhail Margelov

Saudi Arabia
Minister of Foreign Affairs - HRH Prince Saud Al Faisal
Seychelles
President - Mr James Michel
Somaliland
President - Mr Ahmed Silanyo
South Africa
Foreign Minister - Ms Maite Nkoana-Mashabane
Spain
Minister - Mr Jose Manuel García-Margallo
Sweden
Prime Minister - Mr Fredrik Reinfeldt

State Secretary Foreign and EU Affairs - Mr Carl Bildt

Switzerland
Federal Councillor - Mr Didier Burkhalter
Tanzania
President - Jakaya Mrisho Kikwete
TFG (President)
President - Sharif Sheikh Ahmed
TFG (Prime Minister)
TFG Prime Minister - Dr Abdiweli Mohamed Ali
TFP (Speaker)
Speaker of the TFP - Hassan Sheilk Aden Issak
Turkey
Minister of Foreign Affairs - Mr Ahmet Davutoglu
UAE
Minister of Foreign Affairs - Sheikh Abdulla Alenhayan
Uganda
President - H.E Yoweri Kaguta Museveni
United Nations
UN Secretary General - Ban Ki Moon
United Nations (IMO)
Secretary-General - Mr Koji Sekimizu
US
US Secretary of State - Mrs Hilary Clinton
World Bank
Vice President - Mrs Obiageli Ezekwesili
Yemen
Minister of Foreign Affairs - Dr Abu Bakr Al-Qirby

Politically, the reality is that a central government is 100% not going to happen in Somalia. The solution is backing a federal government structure in the capital, there are semblances of this in the South (Galmudug, Ximan and Xeeb, and the still fictional Jubbaland). A bottom up approach rather than a top down one.

Absolutely.

This conference has little to do with the Somalia's well being and anyone who thinks so is being naive and probably a little stupid.
This is political strategy at it's finest. They're pushing back on the Iran/Turkey sphere of influence in the area (and Somalia), the red sea is very close to the strait of Hormu, oil has been found up North with it most likely being found elsewhere in the country and more importantly, alot of the countries attending are affected by the piracy. UK has many shipping companies and business

It will not succeed because the rest of the world will never understand that their fixation with a "strong central Government" will fail.
The money needs to be taken away from Somalia and by Somalia, I mean the corrupt propped up politicians. Their first interest is themselves and to the money lender, not the country

Federalism and a ridiculously weak Central Government is what is required. Even the military imo, should not be in the full hands of Central Government.

Shirka Soomaalida loogu qabanayo London ka daawadda halkan

http://www.bbc.co.uk/somali/

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7207/6777425320_322606b214_b.jpg

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7200/6777023270_c859ab160d_b.jpg

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7064/6777345336_8e6fa12f86_b.jpg

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7193/6775161938_b9de3a5842_b.jpg

^^ I wonder why President Sharif isn't in that third photo with everyone else :nuts:

I love how Siilaanyo is sitting on the opposite side from the two Shariifs and Abdweli. :lol:

Screw this conference! Great photo-op of a bunch of useless leaders.

Lets hope the best for Somalia and the region.
I just fail to understand the need or motivation to organize this conference only weeks or months after the last.
Could China be part of their motivation, i mean the western powers appear to intend to present themselves as the ones who worry about African problems while China is only interested in business.



I love how Siilaanyo is sitting on the opposite side
from the two Shariifs and Abdweli. :lol:

Screw this conference! Great photo-op of a bunch of useless leaders.

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Cilaaqaadka labada umadood u dhexeeya waa ku jira dhowr boqol oo sano, kama yaabani danta Turkidu ka muujineyso Somalia

What's the point of learning Turkish in Somalia? Lol, so pointless. Looks like they are trying to culturally Turkify Somalis.

Learning Turkish is a little price to pay for everything they're getting. Over a thousand people being treated every day, that's pretty impressive.

Turkish speaking Somalis. I like.

Would learn.

Learning Turkish is a little price to pay for everything they're getting.

Agree.
Plus it would make it easier for the youngsters when the Turkish offer them university placements:nuts:

I'd rather have them learn English, but learning Turkish is probably a good idea with Turkey's rise, plus it's a hard language which shows skill to those learning it.

^^ I wonder why President Sharif isn't in that third photo with everyone else :nuts:
The president was in a meeting with Hillary Clinton when that photo was taken.
http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSNDGo4HPqchYHbu2AmD9uSO5CJGN907TYw56Fi86lx_TiK_QPt
The president in his office.
http://saciidbarre.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/sheekh-shariif.jpg?w=468

The Turks are the most honest group when it comes to dealing with Somalia than anyone else.

The president was in a meeting with Hillary Clinton when that photo was taken.
http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSNDGo4HPqchYHbu2AmD9uSO5CJGN907TYw56Fi86lx_TiK_QPt


:rofl:

I wonder what he's saying to her.

Mala 'Naa xiishod o Nimanka ka dexbax' :lol:

The Turks are the most honest group when it comes to dealing with Somalia than anyone else.

Strongly disagree. They're the biggest snakes. Early on they seemed genuine, until the photo ops started. I really hope they're sidelined, either by the Somali gov't or another international power.

I fully endorse and support the Turkish colonisation of Somalia. I have already started introduction classes for Turkish and already started familiarising myself with the Turkish culture and their unique mannerism. I welcome our Turkish overloads and will do everything necessary to smooth the transition of power into Turkish hands. :cheers:

I fully endorse and support the Turkish colonisation of Somalia. I have already started introduction classes for Turkish and already started familiarising myself with the Turkish culture and their unique mannerism. I welcome our Turkish overloads and will do everything necessary to smooth the transition of power into Turkish hands. :cheers:

They are trying to reinstate the Ottoman empire. :laugh:

Turks are useless, if you're going to get colonized at least let it be a great power like the US or UK.

Somalis are a weird people, I swear. This is business. They are interested in the potential and want to make a buck and people scream colonialism. :laugh::|

Somalis are a weird people, I swear. This is business. They are interested in the potential and want to make a buck and people scream colonialism. :laugh::|

That's Nomadic-Warrior in a nutshell. :lol:

I say, anyone who wants to make a buck, whether a maid or a multi-national corporation - is welcome. I think the tide is turning in favor of the big corporations.

Puntland was also offered technical help and building of oil capacity by oil giant British Petroleum.

http://www.garoweonline.com/artman2/publish/Somalia_27/Somalia_Andrew_Mitchell_Britain_has_no_commercial_interest_in_Somalia_s_oil.shtml

I knew that whole conference was about oil, the photo-ops were a facade since there was no policy changes.

I knew that whole conference was about oil, the photo-ops were a facade since there was no policy changes.

Yep. I knew there was no way in hell that all of these dignitaries, and the major Arab League meeting preceding it was over some miniscule $7 Billion piracy issue. I'm actually quite happy that something big and positive came out of this.

1. Total eradication of militants
2. Biggest investment in Somali history
3. Cessation of all hostilities courtesy of oil abundance

Somalis are a weird people, I swear. This is business. They are interested in the potential and want to make a buck and people scream colonialism. :laugh::|

:lol:

Ofc it is. Shouldn't limit our business interests for any political reasons. I hope Somalia does business with any and all countries it can

I knew that whole conference was about oil, the photo-ops were a facade since there was no policy changes.
:lol:

URGENT!!!

Dr. Hawa Abdi’s camp is under siege from al Qaeda–backed militants, who snatched 700 kids on a recent raid. (http://www.dhaf.org/news/)

^^ Guys we all need to mobilize, something needs to be done, these Al Shabab bastards are kidnapping kids from Dr. Hawa's camp :bash:

Is this old news? No one else has reported it. Besides, isn't the capital supposed to be free'd from these assholes?

What I'm wonder is, who the hell are supporting this organization now that have shown their true identity?? From every liberated city, we only see smiles. How can they still be so strong?