the newest 'leaked' information - a ~60 storey mixed use tower by Simcoe Place anchored by the ritz-carlton

Sounds good.

This is news to me!

Didn't Ritz-Carlton bail out on Trump?

If memory serves me right, they did. Assuming that this info is correct, R-C could be trying to angle in on the Toronto market that they had previously thought would not work out.

I think Ritz bailed on 333 Bay because of the dubious people involved...not because they suddenly felt Toronto not a good city to have a hotel. I think their rep was what they were protecting.





KGB

posted message at urbantoronto by rjeffers

"To further add to this post, I have learned from more than one source that a major hotel/condo tower may be built on this site. Preliminary projections have it at approximately 60 storeys. Unfortunately since I work in the industry I’m not at liberty to disclose where I’ve come across this information or reveal the hotel chain in question. What I can reveal is that the hotel chain was linked to another substantial project earlier but decided against proceeding.
The site of this proposed development is just east of the CBC building and north of Simcoe Park. Cadillac Farview still has plans to build an office tower east of this site – Simcoe Place II.
I’ve been sitting on this information for a few weeks and debated about posting it. I know that this forum doesn’t condone unsubstantiated information but once I heard about it from more sources I decided to proceed in posting. Just to let everybody know, the last time I posted some breaking news i.e. regarding the cancellation of the First Toronto Tower I was rebuked and even had my post deleted, but in the end the information that I revealed was 100% accurate. "

heehee... I was the one who deleted his First Toronto post...Oh well. That was a long time ago.

I thought the Ritz was planning on building a hotel in Yorkville? On Scollard?

Well, there isn't anything "secret" about the condo/hotel tower.

They announced 15 years ago what was going to be built on the "Broadcast Centre", which included a condo/hotel tower with 400 condos and 162 hotel rooms. My info does not give a rendering or floor count...and this portion of the development was actually going to be handled by Bramalea Ltd.

I can understand why the 2nd of the origional twin 33 storey office towers wasn't built, as the office market wasn't there...but the condo market has been in a growth period for almost 10 years.



The entire Broadcast Centre was quite an impressive project....

The 1.7 million sqft CBC Building designed by John Burgee/Philip Johnson is not only one of the largest and most technically advanced tv production facilities in the world, it's also very under-rated architecturally...you just can't appreciate it as a whole because of the massive bulk of it from the street.

Origionally, the twin 33 storey office towers (now the 2nd tower is supposed to be 40 storeys) was to have 1,550,000 sqft of leasable space. Norr Architects did a very nice job of it....glass, stone and stainless put together in a very appealing design.

Underground 2000 car parking lot.

PATH connection to Metro Hall.

150,000 sqft of retail.

An 1,800 seat live theatre.

Daycare centre.

One acre park.

A residential tower consisting of 400 condos and 162 room hotel.

All in all, this project was about 4 million sqare feet in total....putting it on par with such projects as TD Centre or Eaton Centre.








KGB

Burgee and Johnson designed the CBC??
Wow! I had no idea..the building is actually fantastic, especially inside..Also the CBC building sits on rubber knobs which actually help the building reduce static/friction and vibration..

p5

T\hat's great. A five-star hotel for Toronto!

"I can understand why the 2nd of the origional twin 33 storey office towers wasn't built, as the office market wasn't there...but the condo market has been in a growth period for almost 10 years."

Well... it is cadillac fairview - so concerned with rate of return they rather sit on a parking lot than to build residential as originally approved

Well... it is cadillac fairview - so concerned with rate of return they rather sit on a parking lot than to build residential as originally approved

It is a technique that they have demonstrated to be successful in the long run. Even if it takes another 20 years, the land will simply be more valuable at that time meaning they may get a larger office building and a higher return over the 50 years following.

"it is cadillac fairview - so concerned with rate of return they rather sit on a parking lot than to build residential as originally approved"


I think you are mixed up....the 2nd office tower AND the condo/hotel tower were two separete buildings origionally planned for the site. I don't think they were planning on changing the condo building to offices.






KGB

^I know - but they own the whole block and only until early of this year considered developing residential

Yea...but weren't you saying they had decided to not build the residential portion and instead wait until they could build an office tower there instead?






KGB

not necessarily

"but they own the whole block and only until early of this year considered developing residential"

Not true...the land for this building was owned by the CBC until just this year, when they sold it to CF. In fact, the whole Broadcast Centre lands ( 10 acres) was a partnership between CBC and CF from the begining...CBC owned the land...CF built the buildings.

Here's a blurb from "CBC Watch".....



"Cadillac Fairview Reaches Agreement to Purchase Vacant Lands from CBC/Radio-Canada
The Cadillac Fairview Corporation Limited announced today that it has reached an agreement with CBC/Radio Canada to purchase vacant lands adjacent to the CBC/Radio-Canada's Canadian Broadcasting Centre in Toronto.

The site is located next to another Cadillac property, Simcoe Place, and until recently the Company leased a portion of the lands from CBC/Radio-Canada."We are very excited about this transaction," said John Sullivan, Senior Vice President, Office Development, Cadillac Fairview. "The purchase of this land will complement our portfolio and supports our strategy of developing, owning, and managing premier real estate across Canada."Cadillac Fairview is currently evaluating opportunities for the property that could include the development of mixed-use facilities for office, retail, and residential purposes. The company anticipates that the planning and approval process will be completed in spring 2004, at which time it will announce its vision for the site. "







KGB

oh yea - that's right

confused with something else I guess

why didn't you just post it right away?

So does this project have a name yet? Simcoe Place II?

No....the 2nd office tower would be named Simcoe Place 2, as it's the office tower that is called Simcoe Place. Whether or not the condo/hotel tower will be considered part of "Simcoe Place" is unknown.






KGB

Personally, I think the Trump project will end in utter failure. In the past two months since the sales office has opened, I have seen the suite prices drop dramatically compared to rising prices for other comparable projects. I don't think that the people in Toronto are as stupid as the 'newbie' developers of the Toronto Trump Tower think we are...C'mon, 1.5 million for a 600 sq ft suite...according to industry sources, they will be using Downsview Kitchens, a middle-to-low end local Kitchen manufacturer. I'd rather buy an older condo and soup it up with some real high-end finishings...i would probably still end up with some cash to spare..

Cad_monkey

I haven't seen any reductions in Trump's pricing, nor any indications to suggest that it's not going to be successful.

This project may take a long time before it becomes reality,T.O's hotel vacancy rate is nothing to brag about .

I have seen the suite prices drop dramatically compared to rising prices for other comparable projects

Are you in the business? If so please tell us more. If not then I'd like to know where you got this info. You can only get the Trump prices by appointment at their sales centre. You can't just walk in and get a price list like you can at other sales centres.

I'm afraid that Trump might cancel this project since he's having money problems right now.

^Trump isn't having money problems and even if he was and decided to back out of the 311 bay street partnership, someone new would be found

I'm pretty sure his casino problems are legally separate from the real estate holdings he has. His actual equity position in 333 Bay is still dubiously unknown.

The Stren building hasn't seemed to be having much problems selling $ million dollar plus units, as are some other high end projects....but then again, I always questioned the Bay/Adelaide location as particularily appealing to the monied set.






KGB

I'm pretty sure his casino problems are legally separate from the real estate holdings he has.
You are right, they are seperate. His casino business is a seperate entity from his other businesses. Some of us Chicago forumers had the same concern too for his building in Chicago.

^I can't imagine that TTC won't get built even with the casino issue. It is at an advanced stage in developement.

^I can't imagine that TTC won't get built even with the casino issue. It is at an advanced stage in developement.
That is exactly what I was saying. The casinos are completely separate business.

Personally, I think the Trump project will end in utter failure. In the past two months since the sales office has opened, I have seen the suite prices drop dramatically compared to rising prices for other comparable projects. I don't think that the people in Toronto are as stupid as the 'newbie' developers of the Toronto Trump Tower think we are...C'mon, 1.5 million for a 600 sq ft suite...according to industry sources, they will be using Downsview Kitchens, a middle-to-low end local Kitchen manufacturer. I'd rather buy an older condo and soup it up with some real high-end finishings...i would probably still end up with some cash to spare..

Cad_monkey
Is this the racist jesus guy who was banned?

Probably.

Contact the trump developers 'Talon' international and ask them about their experience developing multi-init projects. As far as I know, the last thing they were doing was manufacturing touch screen video games..

I'm afraid that Trump might cancel this project since he's having money problems right now.

I don't think trump really has much to do with this project. He is just lending his name to the building. The real investors are amateurs with no real experience. According to canadian business magazine, the majority investors (Talon international) have no real estate/development experience and were only given the reigns to this project because of the their involvment in the former ritz carlton project

Are you in the business? If so please tell us more. If not then I'd like to know where you got this info. You can only get the Trump prices by appointment at their sales centre. You can't just walk in and get a price list like you can at other sales centres.

Yes, my info is correct. The prices are going to drop very soon, especially when Stinson gets going. When the two face off, dollar for dollar the stinson building will be the better investment. Unless you are so driven by branding, that you are willing to pay top dollar just to have the trump name. But hey, to each his own.

For the most part, I agree with cad monkey....the assessment of facts may be correct...but I would not understimate the capacity of Toronto condo projects to flourish under the most feeble foundations....Stinson and his 1 King are a prime example of that.

But if the people behind 333 Bay think they can depend soley on the name "Trump" to get people to fork over more money than normal, they (and trump himself) might be in for a humiliating experience. From my point of view, the Trump name is probably turning more people off than on. A more adept developer would almost invariably make a better go at it if you simply handed over the marketing, developing and density rights for such a project.






KGB

In the past two months since the sales office has opened, I have seen the suite prices drop dramatically...

Yes, my info is correct. The prices are going to drop very soon

:sleepy:

"The real investors are amateurs with no real experience"

YAW, The president of the 333 bay corporation who is also president of monarch construction lacks real experience and familiarity with the toronto market.

"In the past two months since the sales office has opened, I have seen the suite prices drop dramatically"

Complete bullshit!

"The prices are going to drop very soon"

you mean rise

Yes, my info is correct. The prices are going to drop very soon, especially when Stinson gets going. When the two face off, dollar for dollar the stinson building will be the better investment. Unless you are so driven by branding, that you are willing to pay top dollar just to have the trump name. But hey, to each his own.

So that must just be what you think will happen.

"The real investors are amateurs with no real experience"

YAW, The president of the 333 bay corporation who is also president of monarch construction lacks real experience and familiarity with the toronto market.

"In the past two months since the sales office has opened, I have seen the suite prices drop dramatically"

Complete bullshit!

"The prices are going to drop very soon"

you mean rise


I find it hard to believe that Trump would lower the prices. If they've really sold over 1/3rd of the building, then it would appear that sales are fairly healthy. Especially considering that it hasn't been on the market for THAT long.

Plus, wouldn't a price decrease just piss off those people who already bought suites (ie. signed the agreement of purchase & sale)? It might be believable if prices were lowered AND all previous purchasers were given a free upgrade to larger suites. Like the way Stinson gave Downtown Plaza purchasers an upgrade when the project became Sapphire Tower.

On the other hand, why would prices rise so soon? Is there such a demand for Trump suites that the project will be sold-out very soon? If sales are fairly steady, then why would they risk incurring a slower pace of sales by increasing the already high prices?

"If sales are fairly steady, then why would they risk incurring a slower pace of sales by increasing the already high prices?"

if funding for construction is secured - why not maximize profits on the unsold suites - they do have until 2009.

I was told that prices have increased by a sales agent, but I have no idea if that has any truth. However, I'll take the sales agent's word over cad_monkey.

On the other hand, why would prices rise so soon? Is there such a demand for Trump suites that the project will be sold-out very soon? If sales are fairly steady, then why would they risk incurring a slower pace of sales by increasing the already high prices?

When any developer decides to raise the price, you can be darn well assured that a shitload of market reasearch was completed before that decision is made.

I find it funny sometimes when people on internet forums question why or how a developer is doing something - For an approximately $250 million project you can sure as hell bet there are a lot of intelligent and talented people on the team with a lot of research going into anything they do as Mr. Man mentioned above.

These guys know what they are doing.

"If sales are fairly steady, then why would they risk incurring a slower pace of sales by increasing the already high prices?"

if funding for construction is secured - why not maximize profits on the unsold suites - they do have until 2009.


yes, it's a general practice for all limited commodities.

I find it hard to believe that Trump would lower the prices. If they've really sold over 1/3rd of the building, then it would appear that sales are fairly healthy. Especially considering that it hasn't been on the market for THAT long.

Plus, wouldn't a price decrease just piss off those people who already bought suites (ie. signed the agreement of purchase & sale)? It might be believable if prices were lowered AND all previous purchasers were given a free upgrade to larger suites. Like the way Stinson gave Downtown Plaza purchasers an upgrade when the project became Sapphire Tower.

On the other hand, why would prices rise so soon? Is there such a demand for Trump suites that the project will be sold-out very soon? If sales are fairly steady, then why would they risk incurring a slower pace of sales by increasing the already high prices?


The sales office used to open for private viewing only...but 2 months later they decided to open to the public... and I know someone who has visited the office twice...and when he asked about the penthouse pricing... believe it or not...the price is lower now. And ofcourse the sales people are gonna tell you that the price has increased, just to gain your confidence~ I've never been to a sales office where the sales are telling me that their price has dropped and it's the right time for me to invest~ :)

....when he asked about the penthouse pricing... believe it or not...the price is lower now. And ofcourse the sales people are gonna tell you that the price has increased, just to gain your confidence~ I've never been to a sales office where the sales are telling me that their price has dropped and it's the right time for me to invest~ :)


I have also inquired about pricing and the sales people always give same me the same rap. I agree with D.Trump in that why would a salesperson admit to dropping priceswhen they themselves don't know the actually financial situation of the project. And the question reamins, is the Toronto market strong enough to support so many high end projects.

according to Peter Norman of Clayton Research, "Developers must have up to 70% of units Pre-sold to get financing to start building" ...........................can anybody out there clarify this to me a little more?

my take: financial institution got burned in the early 90s. They now take a conservative approach and only invest in something which is as close to a guarranteed return on their investment as possible. The percentage pre-sold needed if financed by one of these institutions is usually based on the costs of construction and the profit margins of individual units. The requirement of pre-selling doesn't apply to private investors or self- financing

I'm waiting for the day that a sales agent tells me:
We're truly up Shit's Creek with this one. Nothing's moving! We've dropped the prices again. we've put a clause into the AGreement of Purchase and sale that protects buyers from dropping prices-- all purchasers will be able to purchase at the lowest price that any given model sells for. Please buy into this condo! I'm reducing my commission by 50%, and I'll toss in the stainless steel appliances and the hardwood floors!

according to Peter Norman of Clayton Research, "Developers must have up to 70% of units Pre-sold to get financing to start building" ...........................can anybody out there clarify this to me a little more?


We're supposed to believe you when you say prices are falling when you don't know what the 70% means?

I like the way Cad_monkey AKA ChathamKentMan AKA JesusChrysler AKA Jaybird started using D Trump as a setup to keep up his bullshitting... to bad you're so easy to spot jaybird !! nice try...

^Do you have proof of this, or are you just joking?

If you do have proof, take it to the mods. People trolling around under different ids is not right IMO.

Jaybird has already been uncovered under ChathamKentMan and JesusChrysler...
it's pretty well known he trolls under several names...

So it's ChathamKentMan who's behind all of this... HAHAHHAHA!

We're supposed to believe you when you say prices are falling when you don't know what the 70% means?

I don't care if you believe me. And since this is a forum for discussion, I thought I would throw that quote out more as a comment, rather than a question.

I like the way Cad_monkey AKA ChathamKentMan AKA JesusChrysler AKA Jaybird started using D Trump as a setup to keep up his bullshitting... to bad you're so easy to spot jaybird !! nice try...


Believe what you guys want. I've never heard of this "jaybird" or "jesuschrysler" fellow. And as for D.Trump, I have no idea who this guy is.
Let's wait and see what happens to the whole trump thing, and maybe in about a year or so you may catch yourself saying, "hey, that goof on Skyscraper city was right..!" : :rock:

WTF? You guys think that i'm cad_monkey, chathamkentman, jesuschrysler and jaybird??? Where did u get that from? Does that mean whenver I'm not talking good about the Trump tower and automatically I'm becoming one of those ppl?? The more I read about the thread the more I suspect if Gdoggy is one of the sales at the trump sales office or one of the investors of this project~~ :hm:

neways... what I noticed in this market is that since Trump announced his project in Toronto... other local developers started to offer more million-dollar dwellings, and they are much larger in size than what Trump has to offer... since the percentage of ppl who can afford these expensive dwellings in Toronto are limited.... I guess there were alot of rich ppl shifted from Trump to local developers....

Trump might not follow the traditional Toronto 70% - The financing of this project might not follow what most Canadian financial institutions have done in the Toronto condo market since '89.

since the percentage of ppl who can afford these expensive dwellings in Toronto are limited.... I guess there were alot of rich ppl have shifted from Trump to local developers....


But that' s the point. Most of the buyers won't be from Toronto. They'll be from other parts of the world. Investors with money to spend, buying up huge chunks of this project and selling them at even more inflated prices.


On another note, who is behind the D.trump. Do you guys believe me now that were not the same person. This can't be the "Harry" can it.

Cad_Monkey: Let say you have a couple million dollars on hand and wanna invest into the real estate.... seeing the pricing structure of Toronto.... would you invest in the Trump tower where you know the units are way over-priced?? I rather invest into some other places... or just use the money to custom-build my own house...

a couple million for one single unit that is less than 1000 sq ft... to me this is just way too expensive...

notice how cad_monkey and D Trump always post in succession as well LMAO

well Gdoggy... i'm posting this right after you....does this mean that we are the same person?

^ You have far too much time on your hands to post under multiple accounts, get a fucking life/job.

"a couple million for one single unit that is less than 1000 sq ft... to me this is just way too expensive"

No one would. Last I heard prices were less than half of the $2000 per square foot you're suggesting.

^ get a fucking life/job.


Thanks for the kind remarks. I do have a life and I do have a job. (Probably a better job than you Mr Man, you Down south hick).
I wish I knew where all this hostility is coming from.

And if Me and D.trump where the same person, how could we both be logged in at the same time. Unless I was chatting on two different computers, which to me is too pathetic to even imagine.

And for all you linguists out there, it's clear through his/her messages that D.Trump is Chinese/Asian.

Cad_Monkey: ohhhh~~ you can tell that I'm a fucking Korean by the way I type~~ good for you~

Cad_Monkey: ohhhh~~ you can tell that I'm a fucking Korean by the way I type~~ good for you~


just give it up Harry, people are starting to catch on. Our submarine tactics just aren't working. The people on this forum are just too smart. Let's just stick to the infomercials and condo guides

This is all getting somewhat weird...and quite off topic.

I love all the interest in Trump International Hotel & Tower, Toronto. It's nice to know it creates such discussion. The "truth" as suggested by some on this forum have no basis in "truth." Prices have not dropped, and in fact, have risen due to demand since the sales office opened in June. Sales are progressing just fine. The Residences (on levels 35-70) start at CAD $1.6 million. And the smallest residential unit? 2,226 sq. ft. These are large, immaculate suites with incredible views. Most of the suites are between $700 to $1000 a sq. ft. And yes, The Trump Organization is very involved in this project. Whether you like Mr. Trump or not, the man knows how to build incredible buildings. To compare this property to Stinson's Sapphire? There is no comparison. These are two very different markets that each property is targeting. Regarding the developers, Talon International Development Inc. The principals are very well respected businessmen who have done their homework. They fell in love with the building and rescued the development. And yes, the project is well-funded. Read the Globe and Mail next Friday (11/19) and you'll get a wealth of information about the project. Or check out www.trumptoronto.ca and the contact: media/news section. There you will find "the facts."

^ ...and you are?

Sales agent would be my guess. Welcome to the forum. Your info is appreciated.

No. Not a sales agent. Just a Director who has been working on the project with the Talon management team for the past year and a half. You wouldn't believe the amount of hard work that has gone on to help get this building to reality, especially overcoming the mess that was created by the previous developer. There is an incredible amount of passion behind the team working on this development, and an incredible amount of knowledge about development at The Trump Organization. Being from the US, it just amazes me the amount of negativity some Canadians have towards the Trump Tower, including local real estate professionals. How is ANY building at Bay & Adelaide a bad thing? The Financial District needs something to kick revitalization into gear. This building has the potential to be that catalyst. And as a location for a downtown hotel, it's perfect. And the number of jobs that it will create in both construction and afterwards is incredible--especially in a not so strong economy right now. Not to mention the great additional tax revenue for the City of Toronto this building will generate. It's simply a win-win all around. There will be nothing like it in Toronto. As Donald says, "there won't be a building to compete with it."

I share your exact same views! And also there was talk awhile back about the city planning department refusing to grant 71-storeys but would agree to 70. I lead the argument that this extra storey is immaterial for planning purposes but a massive $20 million dollar sales opportunity which will be added to the developers' bottom line. It's almost as if "profit" is a bad word in Toronto. The actual discussion took place here:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=132953&page=2&pp=20

It's a crime the amount of hoops Talon must jump through in order to construct this building. Considering how much it will do for the economy, and the amount of property taxes the city would gain, you would think they would be doing everything possible to get this building constructed instead of acting like an obstacle. Is it possible for you to shed some light about the status at the OMB and the final height of the Trump tower?

Also, best of luck in sales and getting this building constructed. We at SkycraperCity are rooting for you and deeply appreciate your insight on this spectacular development.

It may also be appropriate to release this information now... Stinson wants the taller building so he is waiting until the Trump Tower's height is locked in by the OMB before he revises his application to the city to go taller. He's limited structurally by how tall he can go, so if having the tallest skyscraper in Canada is an issue, this may be something to consider...

"There is an incredible amount of passion behind the team working on this development, and an incredible amount of knowledge about development at The Trump Organization."


Well, maybe...but Toronto is hometown to a large group of developers...a lot bigger and older than Trump....and they know the local market much better. Many US companies have failed trying to do the "american" think in Canada....it's not always a simple matter of transplanting an american scheme.







"Being from the US, it just amazes me the amount of negativity some Canadians have towards the Trump Tower, including local real estate professionals."


Well, do mean that building particularilly...or Trump?

I mean, you can't blame people for cringing a bit when the hear the name Trump...com'on...we don't buy into that like americans do...to most Canadians, he's just a bit of a joke...as well as quite a blowhard...throw in the whole cheeze factor. We already know his marketing strategy.






"How is ANY building at Bay & Adelaide a bad thing? "


Hey...this city is infamous for public interaction (read NIMBY)...it's never easy to build here. That's not to say this is not a welcome addition to the city...I'm sure most people will like it.






"The Financial District needs something to kick revitalization into gear. "


I wasn't aware the financial district was in any kind of decay?????







"And the number of jobs that it will create in both construction and afterwards is incredible--especially in a not so strong economy right now."


Last time I checked, Toronto's economy has been very good. And since you are in the condo business in Toronto, you should probably know this city has been on an enormous building boom for years, with no end in sight...by far the largest and healthiest condo building sector on the continent. This building is just a tiny blip on the screen...I'd even say it is of no significance (other than skyline wise).





"Not to mention the great additional tax revenue for the City of Toronto this building will generate. It's simply a win-win all around."


Well, sure it is...but this city council works much different...this city did not get where it is by letting itself be run by big business alone...that's what did in american cities. Nothing just gets rubber stamped here...you wanna play...you jump through the hoops. Don't like it...go home.




"There will be nothing like it in Toronto. As Donald says, "there won't be a building to compete with it."



But Trump makes out that EVERYTHING he does is as if it's the second coming...when we know it isn't....his ego preceeds him.


But in the end....sure..it will get built, and it will be a great building. It will be a win-win...just not by cow-towing to developers who think they should be treated like a god, with question.






KGB

KGB - this is exactly what I'm talking about. The semi-hostile attitude towards Trump and the building itself. This isn't a pissing contest. Having worked in Toronto off and on for the past decade, I'm very familiar with the love/hate undercurrent Canadians have with the US. And of course, the more subdued attitude Canadians have towards self-promotion. I respect that. But the reality is...

90% or so of the development team on this project is Canadian. Including architects, Talon management, engineers and everyone else who has worked on this project. It is not simply an American transplant. This is a Canadian building--with the Trump name on it, and will be managed by Trump International, whose property in New York was just named the top North American Hotel in Conde Nast Travler's readers choice award. Toronto does not have a five-star luxury hotel... this will be the first. I think Torontonians just are not familiar with what Trump does outside of his TV persona. The man is first and foremost a developer. And The Trump Organization is made up of a very skilled group of professionals.

There is no disrepect intended towards any Canadian developers. There are many who are exceptional, without question. Mr. Trump has made his billions primarily from developing buildings. Canadians simply are not as familiar with Donald, the developer. The reality is, the Donald you see in the public eye is one thing.. the Donald, the developer and hotel manager creates masterful buildings in New York. The man is an incredible stickler for details.

This is a $500 million dollar building. Hardly a blip on the radar screen. Nor just another condo. I don't know of any other building in Toronto that has a five-star 260 room hotel with 109 luxury residences on top. And the hotel rooms are not of the pack em in type. The smallest studio guestroom is 570 s.f. - larger than many of the condos being sold downtown. The smallest residenital condo is 2,226 s.f. That's larger than my house. I know every developer thinks their building is special. This one is truly is and is unique to Toronto. However, it is not a mass-market building. Obviously, only those with a bit of money can afford it. And because of that, this building will draw people in from throughout the world. And ultimately, pumping more travel/tourism revenue into the local economy.

The City of Toronto itself has been very supportive of the project. Where we have had issues is with our neighbors, much concerned with the traffic issues that will be involved with construction of the building and the flow of traffic once completed. The issues in question have for the most part been resolved, and everyone seems happy with the changes that have been made to the building site plan. What has been negative is much of the press' attitude towards the project and local realty professionals--much based on the previous developer's prior problems. We're doing everything on our part to help overcome that hurdle.

Regarding the Financial District... what I mean by revitalization is that, once the workday is over, people head home to the suburbs. There just isn't much in the way of residential in the area. And oddly, there isn't a hotel property in the area. They are all a little bit south, north or west. Everything you need is within walking distance, but the specific area could use a bit of "glitz" and "energy" added to it. This building will help provide that.

Regarding the OMB, I can't comment on it just yet, but it is safe to say that building will be 70 stories, and objections have been mostly resolved. More announcements will be made soon (11/19). The best source to watch for announcements is the trumptoronto.ca site.

Thanks for the information trumptoronto. Many of us are looking forward to seeing this project begin. It will be a gem. If you've read other posts here, you probably will note that the semi-hostility is reserved for no one in particular.

"KGB - this is exactly what I'm talking about. The semi-hostile attitude towards Trump and the building itself. This isn't a pissing contest."


Oh...I don't feel hostile about it at all...I was just explaining why you seem to think there is hostility.

My personal opinion of Trump goes back decades...I really don't care about his new reality show...although it certainly plays into his whole unadulterated cheeze factor. He never was a classy guy...and none of his projects were classy....he is just a glorified used car salesman. He has very bad taste...even the interiors of his condos are crappier than what you would find as standard in a $150k Tridel condo. LOL!!

Personally, I think renting the Trump name is so tacky...he's a New York icon...they can have him.

Com'on...this guy actually bought Adnan Khashoggi's old yacht. Except he found out he really wasn't middle eastern royalty. LOL!!

He's just a giant blowhard, egotistical, cheezy braggard. I mean, I know that's his shtick, but it just makes my skin crawl.

But hey, as far as this building goes...I'm totally positive about it.






"This is a $500 million dollar building. Hardly a blip on the radar screen. "


Well, take a look at the overall condo industry in Toronto...it's full of projects that size or bigger...in the overall market, yea...it's just a blip...a few hundred condos represents a slow month of sales in Toronto.






"what I mean by revitalization is that, once the workday is over, people head home to the suburbs. "


Well, last time I checked, the city-proper had over 2.5 million people...the downtown itself is home to 1/4 million. Those few square blocks of the financial district might not have a lot of residential, but that sure seems to be changing.

But the Trump building isn't really going to add much all by itself...it's not like it will be drawing anybody to it from the area....it's not a particualrily big hotel, and not a particualrily big condo residence....it's impact will be on the skyline...not any kind of additional street vibrancy. I mean, will it even have any ground level retail?








"And oddly, there isn't a hotel property in the area."


Well, no...there isn't one on that particualr block...but within a couple of blocks there are thousands of hotel rooms.







"The smallest residenital condo is 2,226 s.f. That's larger than my house. I know every developer thinks their building is special. This one is truly is and is unique to Toronto."


Just so you know...this is not the first exclusive condo building in Toronto...even mass builder Tridel will sell more $1 miilion+ units than trump will.

Here's the thing...this location is unknown territory...the idea of people wanting to fork over the money to live in that particualr location is a bit un-Toronto...people wouldn't find living at Bay & Adelaide terribly exclusive.

This building will not be an exclusive residential location...it will be one of those corporate or part time places...I bet few will actually call it "home".



But like I said...I'm totally for the building...I just don't have any illusions about it. And I'm not saying you do...but let's just say you are payed to be enthusiastic about it...yea?






KGB

The opinion of the Tower and the Man that is behind it are two separate things. I myself do not like Trump very much.

The Trump Tower is a different storey. It would be great if it were to go up as planned.

But I do somewhat agree with KGB that the FD is not the best place for such a project and that the site was only choosen because it was one on a very short list of sites that a 1000+ ft skyscraper could be built on in TO.


(TrumpToronto, there is another place that you can post your info if you are interested. If you are go here (http://s4.invisionfree.com/Highrise_Canada/). If you are more interested on posting on the dedicated thread to TTT then go here (http://s4.invisionfree.com/Highrise_Canada/index.php?showtopic=3) )

trumptoronto,
I'm really looking forward to any annoucement you mentioned to be made on the 19th. A lot of us over at UrbanToronto.ca gobble up every tidbit of information we can get :)

Homer, yeah, you're right, the FD isn't necessarily the first choice for residential in downtown Toronto. But the reality, this land is pretty much the only space still available in the downtown core to build such a property. That being said though, it is an excellent place for a hotel property. With the # of businesses next door in the Scotia Tower or across the street and around the corners... this is a great location for a frequent business traveler to downtown.

Obviously, people have their own opinions of Trump. His personal decorating style is not my taste either. But the buildings he creates demand a very high premium over other properties... and it didn't happen by accident. He has a knack for creating properties that people with financial resources desire. It's all in the details and service that the public doesn't see. He does not personally decorate the suites that people buy.

And yeah, Tridel is a very well run company that makes some very nice properties. But they've never built a tower like Trump International. Zeidler Partnership Architects and Hudson Kruse Interiors have done an amazing design job on this building. The layouts are unlike any seen in Toronto. The bi-level Skyplex units on Levels 54-61 are especially unique and incredible. And yes, I'm paid to say that, but I honestly believe it. I gain nothing from the financial success of this building but the pride in being a part of it.

The world is full of doubters (and Toronto seems to have a few), but it takes a bit of dreaming, risk and a whole lot of work to make a project like this come to fruition. And if it means enrolling The Trump Organization as partners in the project to help make it happen internationally, by all means, it's a good thing. They have provided a wealth of assistance and expertise to the development. And they definitely know how to successfully develop and manage a five-star hotel and residential property (trumpintl.com for example). If The Trump Org wasn't good at what they do, you would have never heard of Trump, and there would have never been a show like "The Apprentice."

"He has a knack for creating properties that people with financial resources desire."


Oh com'on...any wealthy people with a sense of style or taste steer clear of anything that say Trump on it. Sure his trick is to create a buzz around anything he does...it's not rocket science. But in the end, he is just the developer equivelent of a tv evangelist.

He never creates anything that isn't actually very good...it's just hyped as the best the world has ever seen, and whatever following he has buys into that marketing crap. Or...he sometimes buys something that already had it's cashe.





"If The Trump Org wasn't good at what they do, you would have never heard of Trump, and there would have never been a show like "The Apprentice."


I'm of the opinion that because there is a show like "The Apprentice" proves the cheeze factor in spades. LOL!!

The fact that mindless tv creator...Mark Burnett, decided to use Trump as a vehicle for yet another of his moronic tv shows is not surprising...and Trump never turned down any excuse to play himself in any tv spot.

But like I said...I love this project, and I support everybody involved. You just seemed perplexed as to why there seems to be some trepidation around it...I just gave you an explanation.


PS...what kind of "announcement" are you talking about...is there anything important about the project that we don't already know about?






KGB

"Oh com'on...any wealthy people with a sense of style or taste steer clear of anything that say Trump on it."

True, lucky for Trump there's tons of wealthy people with little to no sense of style at all.

5$ says the announcement will be the closure of the sales office soon for a groundbreaking. Hey, I'm allowed to be optimistic.

If anyone is curious, I recently posted a few renderings to the UrbanGTA website, including a couple of interior renderings of the hotel suites and a residential suite (I haven't figured out how to post images here... any tips?).

http://groups.msn.com/UrbanGTA/trumptower.msnw

FYI, the announcement I mentioned may be postponed a week. And no, as much as I wish, not a closing of the sales center to start construction. We've only been open for sales for five months... The announcement to be made isn't anything already discussed... just a confirmation and some more great information on the project to be published in the Globe and Mail. I'll drop a link in here to a PDF when it's ready...

To post images
When you click post reply there is a icon at the top of the textbox with a picture, click this and it will ask for the URL for the picture. If your picture is already hosted, simply paste your picture URL into the box.

If it's not already online / hosted, you upload picture to a free webhosting service.

Find a web hosting service such as imageshack (free) http://imageshack.us/index3.php
Upload picture and paste URL into the box.

We've all seen the building renderings already.

Here's the interior renderings....



http://img61.exs.cx/img61/3800/TrumpIntlHotel_1BR.jpg

http://img61.exs.cx/img61/3940/TrumpIntlHotel_Studiompg.jpg

http://img61.exs.cx/img61/7500/TrumpTO_Residence1.jpg






KGB

Looks good. Thanks for the renderings.

To be honest those interior renderings don't look like anything special, IMO.

Interiors n CGI always look horrible. But yea...they look very boring and conservative...I much prefer the more interesting model suite designs for the mere mortals most developers use.






KGB

KGB Sorry for the outburst.

How's this: Got enough money for a unit at Trump? Then you've got enough money to get all the hardwood, hand crafted, European made furniture you want. And enough for silk curtains.

Whoa Shorty!

I think KGB was just stating an opinion. I also agree that the renderings look quite bland and flat. And the decorative style ain't my cup of tea. No poop in my wheaties, either.

Just an FYI on the renderings, the first two are from the hotel suites, and the latter is an entry foyer in one of the residential floorplans. These are just screen caps from an animated walkthrough--no Photoshop touchups, etc.... I'll post a few more when I get a chance. What you can't really get from these is the unique materials that are being used.... animated walkthroughs never look as good as the real thing... FYI, just posted a couple of ads from the campaign on the UrbanGTA site.

Do you mean Urban Toronto?

Elliot - sorry about that. www.urbangta.com it actually links up with an MSN forum...

http://groups.msn.com/UrbanGTA/trumptower.msnw

Thanks TT... btw, how do you like your new acronym? Big suck up 'cause you have the keys.



EDIT:

If you don't know, the place to post this stuff is www.urbantoronto.ca

You have to join EzBoard et al, and put up with whining, infantile remarks on occcasion...but... you'll have nearly a thousand obsessed, ravenous T.O. hobbiests at your disposal... eventually this is good word of mouth and at the very least you'll feel like the mayor of a significant hamlet.

"KGB Sorry for the outburst."


Shit...you mean I missed it?? LOL

You know I can take it as well as dish it!

Although I don't see what could get anybody riled up on that particular post....CGI never looks good...and that dry, overly conservative look never strikes me as very stylish....just expensive.

I definetely prefer the inventive, stylish designs for model suites that the "normal" priced condo projects use...there are some very talented interior design firms in the city...anybody can just fill a space up with standard traditional expensive Henredon or something.




http://img62.exs.cx/img62/3/TrumpTO_Residence2.jpg






KGB

Actually, the interior design for the residential suite was done by a Toronto firm: Hudson Kruse. They also helped design the floor layouts of all the 109 Residences.

After a short slowdown, condo sales have come roaring back. 1,494 new condo sales last month alone in Toronto. If Stinson and Talon seem to be doing well, I wonder how long it will be before Brookfield will launch the BA Condo to piggy back on the success of these two projects, while the market is hot anyway.

I wonder how those actual views will be like when the BA Condo and Centre is finished...

Wasn't Yabu Pushelberg involved with the origional "Ritz" building along with Hudson Kruse?

I like their work much more.






KGB

TT is it possible to get a little insight into how well Trump is selling. I would expect if it was doing very well Trump would be shouting all over the place.

KGB - I can't speak for the previous development group of the project, but I think Yabu Pushelberg was one of the firms involved (and I agree, they do some good work). I think there were a few different interior design firms involved last time. From the materials I've seen of the prior incarnation, nothing very special was done. What IS different about things this time around is that the floorplan layouts are much better designed, as well as the entire concept for the building is much better conceived. Trevor Kruse did a fantastic job in collaboration with our design team and the Trump Organization on the Residential layouts. The interior design of the hotel suites were done by DiLeonadro in RI. They do some pretty amazing stuff as well.

And Shorty, sales are going well. Things started off a bit slowly (in the summer), but have really been picking up over the past three months (one we started our advertising campaign). The hotel suites in particular are selling well. The opposite of what happened at Trump Chicago, where the residential units sold well, but the hotel was a bit slow. We've had over 4000 people register on the website since mid-March, and recently over 100 new registrations a week. Recent developments have been very encouraging.

Any chance of getting a ballpark figure for sales, Trumptoronto?

The decor is really of little interest anyway...hotel rooms i don't care about...and residents are furnished by the owner to suit their individual taste...what they use to market them isn't all that important...unless they come furnished, people care about the other elements more.

There is one part of this whole project that bothers me outside of the cheezy Trump angle....my idea of a truly "5-star" classy hotel, is one where it is developed and owned...as well as managed by one company or organization...this has fancy "time-share" written all over it. The fact that they have to sell them and just install themselves as "managers" sounds fishy to me. And what is the track record of the "5-star" management anyway?

This is why I piss myself listening to Harry Stinson talk about how he is going to run a 5-star outfit...this guy has ZERO experience, let alone a track record...and he can't even present himself as much more than ahomeless person. LOL!






KGB

KGB - what Harry Stinson is selling and what Trump International is selling are two distinctly different things. Primarily, Trump International HAS experience running one of the very few Mobil five-star hotel properities in North America in Trump International Hotel & Tower, One Central Park West.

The Toronto property is exactly the same in concept (hotel and residential condominiums). The TIHT, Chicago development is now 75% sold and nearing ground-breaking. The bottom-line, the TIHT concept has worked exceptionally well in New York, and was recently awarded as the top hotel in the US by Conde Nast Traveler readers as well as ranked the top business hotel in North America by Travel + Leisure Magazine. There is nothing "cheezy" about it. And it is NOT a timeshare. There is only one owner per suite--it is NOT fractional. It is the same as if you were to buy any condominium. The difference here is, you can make money from the suite with every night it is used by the hotel. Or if you wanted to, you could simply live in the suite and enjoy the five-star services of the hotel.

New CNT and T+L Awards Reflect 'Inspired' Hospitality

NEW YORK, NY – October 8, 2004 – Trump International Hotel & Tower (TIHT) just became the first hotel in New York City to win Condé Nast Traveler’s Readers' Choice Award for Top US Hotel. TIHT was also recently ranked the best business hotel in Travel + Leisure’s 2004 World's Best Awards in the "Hotels: Continental U.S. and Canada" category. How does Trump stay on top of the most competitive hospitality market in the world? According to General Manager Tom Downing, who joined the luxury property before its January 1997 opening, it takes a five-star philosophy that emphasizes the tireless pursuit of supreme guest comfort.

"These awards are an outstanding tribute to our staff. It definitely takes a village of dedicated, caring and talented employees to run a world-class hotel around the clock with precision, discretion and flair," said Downing. "But it also requires the ability to think creatively and genuinely -- not in a scripted or prescribed manner -- to continually anticipate guests' needs and requests. Every staff member at Trump International Hotel & Tower is to be commended for the inspired hospitality they personally provide each of our guests."

^ I wouldn't take those Conde Nast things too seriously. Didn't he have them come on his show to rate properties the contestants had to fix up for a task a few weeks ago? It's basically product placement. If you scratch my back...

SC - I'm not sure what you are talking about? To the best of my recollection, appraisers came in to rate the task... but not Conde Nast... which is a publishing company. The award given to Trump International in New York was from a poll of Conde Nast Traveler magazine readers... not simply dolled out by the magazine editors. It is completely legit and well-earned.

Hey trumptoronto.

Thanks for the information. I was wondering whether you can give us any information regarding the OMB hearings.
Do you know when the final decision will be made?

Thanks for your time.

This Trump project is amazing, keep up the great work.

Thanks Robin -

A formal announcement will be made later this week or early next week regarding the OMB decision. However, safe to say, the OMB has given the project the green light to move forward and the building height increase has been approved.

You have to read the OMB ruling. It's a delight. And yes of course it is approved.

Just an FYI...

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/041124/to271_1.html

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!
:cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:

Approved!! OMG!!!

There were appeals.. but ^heh looks like they wasted their time.
http://www.omb.gov.on.ca/e%2Ddecisions/pl030819%5F%231808.pdf

Bay Adelaide has approved height of 272m!!

lol

http://www.omb.gov.on.ca/e%2Ddecisions/pl030819%5F%231808.pdf

Hilarious!

But overall, congratulations on approval.

It's nice that Trump has an option for a connection to the PATH. I like that Toronto has a poor weather alternative for getting around. It lets me leave the umbrella at home.

Maybe i'm just ignorant but what is 272m that is going in at Bay and Adelaide?

The stalled office building that was supposed to have been built years ago. I believe that is the approved height allocated for that location.

Canada's future tallest residential skyscraper, the Sapphire Tower, will become the latest landmark to grace the Toronto skyline. Despite the constant rumours and misinformation found on this forum, the Sapphire Tower team is very pleased with the current progress, and the tower is scheduled to breakground in late 2005. An article to appear in The Star will offer further insight about Sapphire to the general public.

Anyone interested in the Sapphire Tower can call our office at (416) 369-9993. We would be happy to schedule an appointment and give further details about this exciting development.

We here at the Sapphire Tower also wish Mr. Trump and Talon Developments the very best in regards to Trump International, Toronto.

"Despite the constant rumours and misinformation found on this forum, the Sapphire Tower team is very pleased with the current progress, and the tower is scheduled to breakground in late 2005"

and we're supoosed to believe your information is more valid. I'm leaning more towards some newbie or a jaybird cry for attention - 'trumptoronto. sapphire. What's next? oneblooreast?

Hold on, let me register that name... "oneblooreast"... I hope it's available. :D

sapphire
A little word of advice, do yourself a favour and hire a professional marketing team.

^ who cares about that. Much more importantly, don't scrimp on the materials. Toronto doesn't need another shoddy looking tower in the core (i.e. one king west).

I don't even think it matters what materials they use, as long as its clean. It will really bring out the dirt on One Canadian Place when/if Sapphire gets built. Have you seen that thing lately? it needs a good shower.

^ who cares about that. Much more importantly, don't scrimp on the materials. Toronto doesn't need another shoddy looking tower in the core (i.e. one king west).


Anyone who wants to see this tower rise should care about that. Marketing is very important.

I don't even think it matters what materials they use, as long as its clean. It will really bring out the dirt on One Canadian Place when/if Sapphire gets built. Have you seen that thing lately? it needs a good shower.

How can you say that you don't think it matters what materials are used!? The fact that FCP is dirty is one thing... the fact that it's exterior is made with Italian marble is another. Imagine how absolutely fugly FCP would look with precast! Honestly, I just don't understand that kind of mentality. Putting up buildings is great but I would vote for any building not to rise if it's materials and overall quality is comprimised.

Sapphire - welcome to the forum. Have fun in here! BTW, I've enjoyed watching the Sapphire piggybacking our marketing efforts...though we are targeting two different audiences, it's flattering to have our copy "borrowed" (i.e. "...latest landmark to grace the Toronto skyline".). While I'm biased as to which Tower I hope to see built, if Sapphire is succesful it will make a nice addition to the Toronto skyline as well. Best of luck to you.

Anyone who wants to see this tower rise should care about that. Marketing is very important.

Of course, you're right... I guess I was just stressing the importance of quality. But again, I don't want to see this tower rise if it's gonna look shoddy. Something else will always come along in the future... after all, this is a prime downtown location.

Hey...looks like a real rivalry for Canada's tallest building...I like it!!!

Will the hometown underdog Trump the Donald?

Will Harry challenge Trump to a race...his '59 Caddy vs Donald's...???...limo??

Who will be voted worse haircut?

Hey...this would be as good as any of those lame reality tv shows.






KGB

Spatula calm down, I was just being sarcastic.

Hey TrumpToronto

How are sales going, could you give us a sales figure please.

No offense to Sapphire Tower, but Trump Toronto is a landmark project

Something that is on par with the CN Tower, or even greater.

^ I'd hardly say that. Trump tower will never _ever_ be a landmark CN Tower is.

Trump Toronto can you give us any background on Talon International
Development.

I know they are a Canadian company. Any more information?

Hey...looks like a real rivalry for Canada's tallest building...I like it!!!

Will the hometown underdog Trump the Donald?

Will Harry challenge Trump to a race...his '59 Caddy vs Donald's...???...limo??

Who will be voted worse haircut?

Hey...this would be as good as any of those lame reality tv shows.




KGB

lol... Be nice.

Welcome to the Toronto forum Sapphire.

I meet Mr. Stinson awhile back to discuss then Downtown Plaza. It's great that it has since morped into one of the tallest hotels in the world. I aksed Mr. Stinson, "if sales go well, will you consider a height increase." The answer was a simple "Yes." followed by, "Well Trump has approval for 65..." stoped mid-sentence and had a bit of a grin. It's amazing that two years later, here we are. But now Trump has just received approval for 1066ft while the height listed on the Sapphire website is 1049ft, and that's the same height which was submitted to the city for approval. Knowing this, can you once again say that Sapphire will be the taller of the two superscrapers, to claim the Canada's Tallest Building title?

From Emporis (Skyscrapers.Com)

The addition of a "prismatic turret" to the southwest face of the design, topped by a spire of a yet undisclosed height, has lead to speculation that Stinson may be planning to truly trump Donald Trump’s approved Trump International Hotel & Tower for the title of Canada’s tallest skyscraper. It’s shaping up to be a rivalry reminiscent of the duel that took place over 70 years ago in New York between the completed Chrysler Building and the Bank of Manhattan Building - ironically now known as completed The Trump Building.

I've enjoyed watching the Sapphire piggybacking our marketing efforts...

lol Ya no kidding. Anyone remember when it looked like this?

http://www.downtownplazahotel.com/images/index_r2_c2.jpg

lol

I sitll have my fingers crossed for this one.

http://bricks.labattracks.net/kiwanis/temp2/ST/SapphireTower2.jpg

http://www.skyscraperpage.com/diagrams/?8338171

Robin, Talon International Developement Inc. was formed by two successful Toronto businesmen, Alex Shnaider and Val Levitan who fell in love with the development when it was the Ritz. When the previous development team fell apart and the Ritz pulled out, they decided to take over the project. They rescued this tower from the ashes. After seeing how much sucess Trump had in New York with the TIHT concept, The Trump Org was given a much bigger role in the development this time around, the layout of the suites were changed, the hotel condo concept was added and the amenities were fine-tuned. It's been an incredible process to have witnessed just how much thought, effort and talent has been involved in getting this tower to where it is today over the past couple of years.

TrumpToronto,

Why are you ignoring and not giving a response to how sales are doing with the project?? You seem to know everything else about the project since you are somehow affiliated with it, than why not give us an idea on what percentage is sold??

I somehow fear this dude is a fake and is repeating what everyone else in here knows!!

sales numbers are sometimes considered confidential information. trumptoronto is good enough to come on the forums and give us exclusive insight into the tower. Do you really expect him to give out corporate secrects just because you asked?

If anyone is interested, when I phoned the sales office about a month ago, I was able to con someone into giving me the sales information. At the time, the person said it was "about 1/3 sold." You can choose to believe that or not but it's likly the best your gonna get.

"sales numbers are sometimes considered confidential information."

Is that hard to type for someone who is asking a simple a question?? Again I am skeptical on this new "Trump-member".

Wildchild... yeah you've ratted me out... I'm a fake. Ha ha ha.

Frankly, there are certain things both because of legality and confidentiality (as Mr. Man mentioned), I am not at liberty to disclose. The last thing I want to do is start rumors about what is, or is not true. When the management team feels it is the appropriate time to disclose sales information, I'll be more than happy to pass it along. All that I can say is that we have been pleased with the sales progress. Do we wish it was already 70% sold and financed in just six months--with groundbreaking just around the corner? Of course. Not realistic, but a nice thought, nonetheless. It took the TIHT, Chicago over a year to reach that sales level (which was a very fast pace), and we're only six months into our sales phase.

BTW, what is the deal with the antagonism?

I'm liking both designs.

I think they will add a little something to the very crowded finincial district cluster. I wouldn't want every building to look like these, especially Saphire, as it does border on the chintzy...a little too "tacky overnight Chinese city" for my liking, but where it will go, it will add a little interest...after all, those sober bank buildings are of the highest quality, but a little playfullness in the mix will be a nice addition, rather than a detraction.

It looks like Stinson will simply make his spire taller than Trumps for the title....hardly a smashing blow, but will probably get the job done. Although the spire on Saphire will be less interesting than the one on Trump...and the Saphire's spire can be taller than Trumps without looking too weird because of the design....if Trump increases the spire on his any more than it is, it will look very out of place.






KGB

"BTW, what is the deal with the antagonism"

Because we've been fooled before and so far none of the 'insider' information you provided hasn't appeared already in ads, arcticles, etc.

The city of Toronto has done its part for the development of Trump International Hotel and Tower Toronto.

I just want to know whether Trump and Talen International development Inc is 100% committed to this project.

The last thing I want to hear is that Talon International development Inc pulls out of this development, whether market condition etc.
That is my main concern.

TrumpToronto please tell us that Talon and Trump are fully committed to this project. You guy fully have our support.

The city of Toronto has done its part for the development of Trump International Hotel and Tower Toronto.

I just want to know whether Trump and Talen International development Inc is 100% committed to this project.

The last thing I want to hear is that Talon International development Inc pulls out of this development, whether market condition etc.
That is my main concern.

TrumpToronto please tell us that Talon and Trump are fully committed to this project. You guy fully have our support.

A corporation purpose is to make a profit, so what do you think will be the determining factors of the Trump Tower getting built...

In most American cities, a tower equvalent to Trumps would have had subsidization out the ass to ensure it getting built.

"I just want to know whether Trump and Talen International development Inc is 100% committed to this project. "

LOL - they had it designed, released it to the market, submitted an application for zoning approval and again for a height increase, and finally fought of an appeal on its approval yet are not fully commited to seeing the project realized

"I just want to know whether Trump and Talen International development Inc is 100% committed to this project. "

LOL - they had it designed, released it to the market, submitted an application for zoning approval and again for a height increase, and finally fought of an appeal on its approval yet are not fully commited to seeing the project realized

Am I missing something? Why is there question to being fully committed? I don't understand. Millions have been spent by Talon over the past couple of years to see this project become reality--including design, legal, construction, marketing and purchase of the land where the tower will be built. So, of course Talon and Trump are committed to the project.

http://www.trumptoronto.ca/media/TRUMPTO_GM_Skyline.pdf

^The supposed "Big Release" from Globe & Mail? This is due to be printed on Friday. Interesting info there.. "No walls, posts or pillars" and a sway damper. This building is going to look very impressive.
The downtown cluster will be: :runaway:

http://www.trumptoronto.ca/media/TRUMPTO_GM_Skyline.pdf

^The supposed "Big Release" from Globe & Mail? This is due to be printed on Friday. Interesting info there.. "No walls, posts or pillars" and a sway damper. This building is going to look very impressive.
The downtown cluster will be: :runaway:

Hey that site doesnt work for me and well its friday today

http://www.simplycondos.com/articles/images/bull1a.gif
http://www.simplycondos.com/articles/images/bull1b.gif
http://www.simplycondos.com/articles/images/bull1c.gif

^Interesting article but I can't really see lots of wealthy individuals choosing Toronto over NYC.

What I am trying to say is that the market changes. Market conditions change day by day, month by month.

A number of factors can take place. The high loonie is one of them. The economy, etc.

Talon could change their mind about this project depending on the market.

I jus want to make sure that through thick and thin Talon will stick through with this project. That is all I ask.

If not then tell us now, and don't make us go through with this bullsh*t again.
We already went through this with the previous developement.
I don't want to hear a couple month later this developer pulling out.

http://www.simplycondos.com/articles/images/bull1a.gifhttp://img113.exs.cx/img113/6232/k3iburns2.jpg

I've been looking on SSP and I found this pic, I'm pretty sure this is just the old rendering for Trump, and it does look outdated, but it says Ritz-Carlton on it...:

http://skyscraperpage.com/gallery/data/547/28toronto-ritzold.jpg

Yea...that's the origional design...it's so bad, even the city, which generally doesn't get involved in aestetics, told them to re-design it. LOL!!

(that's when they hired Zeidler)






KGB

Glad to find some old content and pictures, I am working on a site: www.trumptowertoronto.com and was looking for some old info.

"Interesting article but I can't really see lots of wealthy individuals choosing Toronto over NYC."

In NYC, you must face the American aristcracy

Damn, the 2nd last post was an year after the one before.......

^Interesting article but I can't really see lots of wealthy individuals choosing Toronto over NYC.
I think he is indicating there are wealthy people that are not wealthy enough for New York but want the lifestyle. Now they have that opportunity in Toronto. The choice then is a lesser condo in New York vs. better condo in Toronto.