Ok, here is a projects and construction list that I promised. If anyone has anything to add feel free to post because I'm not sure I got everything.

The Plaza on Orange (site cleared and construction set for 9/15):
This project is probably the most critical to Orlando, as it sits on the infamous Jaymont block. It includes a 12 screen movie theater, retail and restaurants, offices, and 26 story residential.
http://img43.photobucket.com/albums/v133/sunshineboy/orlandoproject/plaza.jpg
http://home.earthlink.net/~tmalinovsky/solaire.gif

Less than a block away on Church St is the 55 West condo tower (breaks ground in Sept, and about 90% reserved):
Lots of retail along with this one, which includes a complete redevelopment of the Church St area into an espalande.
http://home.earthlink.net/~tmalinovsky/55wnew.jpg
http://img43.photobucket.com/albums/v133/sunshineboy/orlandoproject/esplanade.jpg

Back on Orange Ave, beside City Hall is the CNL Bank Tower II (U/c):
This encloses City Hall on both sides by the banks and really makes the area built up.
http://img43.photobucket.com/albums/v133/sunshineboy/orlandoproject/cnl.jpg

Over on Rosalind, beside Lake Eola will rise The Vue to 426ft (sales center opened last month, break ground early next year):
http://www.thevueorlando.com/img/renderings/night2.jpg
http://www.thevueorlando.com/img/renderings/north.jpg
http://www.thevueorlando.com/img/renderings/east.jpg

Across Lake Eola in desirable Thornton Park is The Sanctuary (should top off next week):
This is a very attractive, and massive residential tower and will have groundfloor retail.
http://www.sanctuarydowntown.com/images/CornerRender.jpg
http://www.sanctuarydowntown.com/images/downtown5.jpg
http://www.sanctuarydowntown.com/images/downtown6.jpg
Old construction pic from last April:
http://www.sanctuarydowntown.com/images/04.05.28san1.jpg

Across the street from the Sanctuary is the Eola South condominiums (U/C, occupancy Sept):
The unique design has already won architectural awards before its even finished. It is quite nice.
http://www.oldetownbrokers.com/main_imgs/eolasouth1.jpg

Also in Thornton Park, about two blocks away, is the Osceola Brownstones (U/C):
These are completely sold out.

Beside the brownstones, will rise the Star Tower (same group as the Sanctuary):
http://img43.photobucket.com/albums/v133/sunshineboy/orlandoproject/star.jpg

Still in Thornton Park, the Jackson condos (breaks ground Sept):
http://www.thejacksonorlando.com/images/arial/JaxCMatchAerial.jpg

The "other" Plaza, the retirement home:
Don't know much about this other than that its Mizner inspired.
http://www.theplazaorlando.com/images/Elevation1.gif

FAMU Law School in Parramore (U/C, topped off):
Parramore is the blighted neighborhood across I-4 set for gentrification, or so they say.
http://homepage.mac.com/nperspective/.Pictures/Photo%20Album%20Pictures/2003-10-26%2023.39.24%20-0800/Image-470CF134085011D8.jpg
http://homepage.mac.com/nperspective/.Pictures/Photo%20Album%20Pictures/2003-10-26%2023.39.24%20-0800/Image-470D0010085011D8.jpg
http://www.famu.edu/acad/colleges/law/rendering_web.jpg

Along with the FAMU Law School is a complex that includes a new Federal Courthouse (U/C):
http://img43.photobucket.com/albums/v133/sunshineboy/orlandoproject/federalcourhouse.jpg

AJAX Orlando stadium (this is proposed and looking for financing):
http://www.ajaxorlando.us/imgs/News/aofc%20stadium2.jpg

Uptown Orlando projects includes the Ivanhoe and Inverlad (not sure when these break ground):
http://www.photohost.org/gallery/data/500/1699ivanhoe-med.JPG
http://www.photohost.org/gallery/data/500/1699inverland.JPG

And over in South Orange, the medical center area, is the Arnold Palmer expansion:
This design got some negative response but nevertheless went through, its about 8 floors up now.
https://www.onetgov.net/NR/rdonlyres/elvvkxzctfbeuxyxda7hmw4b2dpfoabxdc2kxvmurhvzn6u7abhri2k7k2lapg3enoeoykezj4z7go/Palmer3450.jpg
Another medical expansion, though this is Florida Hospital:
http://skyscraperpage.com/gallery/data/500/233211368328.jpg

Recently announced, the condo craze has hit College Park, this is the Wellesley:
Their sales center is open and this is going to be great for the area.
http://www.thewellesley.com/images/deco_home2.jpg
http://www.thewellesley.com/images/content_theteam.jpg

Lynx Intermodal Center (completion December):
http://www.golynx.com/ulimages/lynx%20color%20scheme%203.jpg

Here is a great map of the concentration of downtown projects. This is already outdated but it puts things into perspective:
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/media/graphic/2004-03/11814711.gif

http://web.mit.edu/bic/Public/Stuff/Thornton%20Park.JPG

Dynatech Center, to by built on a current parking garage lot in Heritage Square:
http://img23.exs.cx/img23/7783/100_1748c.jpg

Benchmark Building, to be built on the former JC Penny block:
http://img98.exs.cx/img98/3093/1001933a8jl.jpg

Orlando Towers residential, Uptown:
http://web.mit.edu/bic/Public/Stuff/Orlando%20Towers.JPG

Central Park apts, unannounced but confirmed:
http://img102.exs.cx/img102/9015/centralpark.jpg

Jet Blue expansion:
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/media/photo/2005-01/15789611.jpg

University Club Tower, two 37-story twin towers:
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/media/photo/2005-01/15944088.jpg

More to come. Thanks to everyone who might have pics here, I just sort of pulled from everywhere to put this together.

SKY, Great Pics, sure like to see Orlando again soon, and see these new projects get done. very nice .

Orlando is awesome...all these projects are AWESOME, great designs!!

I love the plaza, it does look like it's the most critical to Orlando's appearance

I simply can't wait!!

nice list skydivejunkee!
I really can't wait to see The Plaza get off the ground. A 12-screen movie theater in the heart of downtown will add alot to the city. Orlando will look a whole lot different in the coming years.

Hisma I agree, Orange Ave is especially in for a crucial makeover with the Plaza. It couldn't be in a better location. Also over the past five years or so Central Ave has become quite the place, extending from Orange all the way to Summerlin. Thats the kind of critical mass we need all over the place, and seem to be getting, slowly but surely.

Also,

Regent Hotels International is building a luxury hotel residence in Winter Park, one of only 4 in the US (along with Beverly Hills, NYC, South Beach (U/C) and Boston).
http://www.regentwinterpark.com/new%20index/index/index_r3_c7.jpg

Also around downtown:
La Costa Brava Condos -- what makes these special is the price, the most expensive is only in the 160s
http://www.lacostabravacondos.com/_images/_main/site_plan.jpg

can you guys put the websites for these projects when posting?

Great to see so many nice projects proposed or UC in Orlando. Keep up the good work Orlando!

Vue eyes December start for construction

By Jack Snyder | Sentinel Staff Writer
Posted August 24, 2004

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With signed sales contracts in hand for about half its 323 units, The Vue at Lake Eola, a 35-story condominium tower proposed for downtown Orlando, could be under construction by the end of the year, one of the project's principals says.

"We're working feverishly and are on schedule to start in December," said Mike Murray, a principal in Churchill Development Group LLC, which is developing the tower along with Westminster Partners LLC of Chicago.

Murray said recently that 80 percent of the buyers so far are selling homes in the nearby suburbs and moving downtown. He said the more expensive units are going mostly to "empty nesters" -- couples whose grown children have moved out on their own -- but many of the other buyers are young professionals.

"We expect to attract a broad group of buyers and a variety of income levels," Murray said.

The condos range in price from just under $200,000 to more than $1.7 million each. Murray said the developers are not taking reservations but are executing sales contracts, which require nonrefundable down payments.

The tower is supposed to rise on the southwest corner of Robinson Street and Rosalind Avenue.

Turner Construction Co. has been selected to manage the building of the tower, which is to cost an estimated $85 million. Turner also has been hired to build the $35 million Nemours Clinic near The Mall at Millenia in southwest Orlando.

Meanwhile, a condominium-conversion on Orange Avenue in downtown's "Uptown" section is selling even faster than The Vue.

The renamed Park North at Cheney Place sold more than 90 percent of its 303 apartments during the first weekend of sales. More than two dozen buyers were waiting for the doors to open at 860 N. Orange Ave. when sales to the public started Friday.

The complex opened less than four years ago as a rental community called Echelon at Cheney Place. The apartments-turned-condos are priced from about $100,000 to $350,000 each.

More than 2,000 condominiums are either in planning, under development or being created through apartment conversions in Orlando's city core. All have reported strong demand so far.
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/business/orl-bizvue24082404aug24,1,2843310.story

Nice.
By the end of this year Orlando will have a 35 story, 31 story, and 26 story condo towers under construction right in the center of downtown. Also Sanctuary, an 18 story condo currently under construction should already be topped off by then. Good news for the city. Especially since most of the buyers are coming from from locals and not out of state investors.
Anyone heard any news on Inverland or other proposed uptown projects?

^ Hisma I agree. Buyers in Orlando are not investors but residents and that is going to make a big difference. The North Orange towers are apparently compeltely sold out, though I don't know much about their timeline. The rest haven't been announced yet.

Nice list. BTW, how is the FAMU School of Law coming along?

Nice list. BTW, how is the FAMU School of Law coming along?
Its visible from I-4, kind of cool actually how the Intermodal Center across the street and FAMU sort of close in on the highway. Its topped off I believe (not very tall, but taller than the rendering suggests) and starting internal work.

Cool. Orlando is really coming up.

It is my understanding that the the Ivanhoe towers will be of equal heights and it is also my understanding that they will be the tallest residential towers in the central Orlando core once completed. There are to be residential units along the south side of the parking garage (behind the towers facing the grayed out building in the renderings that have been posted) of a couple of floors. Size of these units I do not know.

It is my understanding that the the Ivanhoe towers will be of equal heights and it is also my understanding that they will be the tallest residential towers in the central Orlando core once completed. There are to be residential units along the south side of the parking garage (behind the towers facing the grayed out building in the renderings that have been posted) of a couple of floors. Size of these units I do not know.

Wow ! You mean taller than The Vue ?

RCHITECTURE
Block 37 plan more city-style
No commercial tenants have signed on so far

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By Blair Kamin | Tribune architecture critic
Posted September 5, 2004

The new plan for long-vacant Block 37, designed by Chicago architect Ralph Johnson and quietly unveiled Wednesday, is just that -- a plan, not a finished scheme. Even so, its broad outlines are some of the best yet conceived for this crucial North Loop plot. They call for a mega-building of interconnected structures that would dazzle with digital decoration and provide a canyonlike atrium that would be a genuine civic space, not just another vertical mall.

But, of course, this is Block 37, which over the last 15 years has devoured and spit up grand architectural schemes like some fire-breathing medieval monster. So there's a catch -- actually several catches -- that could hinder the plan for the parcel bounded by State, Randolph, Dearborn and Washington Streets.

So far, not a single commercial tenant is signed up. And despite assurances offered by the developer and city officials, the atrium and other civic aspects of the plan are almost certain to be subject to powerful commercial pressures that could deeply compromise them.

What Johnson, of the firm Perkins & Will, and the developer, the Arlington, Va.-based Mills Corp., propose is nonetheless intriguing because it correctly confronts the urban design challenge of Block 37's 2.7-acre void: This block, which once buzzed with shops, movie theaters, fancy grocery stores and restaurants where corrupt Chicago pols hung out, should be re-urbanized rather than suburbanized.

On that score, Johnson delivers, but not by nostalgically re-creating Block 37, whose potpourri of buildings (except for a Commonwealth Edison substation) was cleared starting in 1989 for a Helmut Jahn-designed office and retail complex that never materialized. Instead, he wisely proposes to rebuild the block to meet today's needs -- and tomorrow's.

An aid for travelers

Underground would be a state-of-the-art Chicago Transit Authority Station where travelers headed for O'Hare International and Midway Airports could check their bags before boarding express trains. An electronic obelisk, flashing information from stock market updates to weather forecasts, would rise into an irregularly shaped atrium hollowed out of a five-story podium. The podium would house shops, restaurants, nightclubs and other entertainment.

The Loop's pedway tunnels would feed directly into the project's lower levels. The atrium would culminate in an enormous skylight, which would be surrounded by a "green roof" of grass and trees.

Three high-rises would pinwheel around the block, the first of them a 17-story office building at Dearborn and Washington that city officials say is likely to be built in the project's first phase. The other two high-rises -- a 10- to 13-story hotel at Dearborn and Randolph and a 20- to 23-story residential tower at State and Randolph -- would rise in later phases atop the podium.

If the city grants approval, the developers want to start construction next year and finish the project's first phase by 2007. Given the block's history, that sounds wildly optimistic, but it would be foolish to dismiss this plan, if only because it is so full of good ideas.

Among them: Dispensing with the idea that Block 37 needs an anchor store, like a suburban mall. In effect, Marshall Field's State Street store is its anchor, and so, in a way, is Millennium Park, which is drawing hordes of people south of the Chicago River.

One of the best features of the plan is that it promises shops of various sizes, an intricate mix of activities rather than a few big things jammed together. That's the kind of variety that makes cities hum.

The plan's fundamental strength, however, rests in its civic qualities: Instead of the fortresslike retail, hotel and residential complex proposed in 2000 for Block 37 by Chicago-based JMB Realty Corp. and New York architects Kohn Pedersen Fox, Johnson creates a far more city-friendly design.

Along State, for example, he invites pedestrians into the stores with glassy, showroom architecture (think Crate & Barrel on North Michigan Avenue) and into the atrium with grandly scaled, highly transparent corner entrances.

Tall but narrow passages would cut a diagonal path into the atrium. These mini-canyons would burst open to reveal the spatial surprise of the canyonlike atrium, which would become wider as it rises.

Overcoming the banal

This classic "press and release" move elevates the project above the banal, spatially mundane interiors of suburban malls and vertical malls. The civic gesture would extend to the green roof, which would be accessible to the public, unlike the one atop City Hall, and would have different levels, providing Chicago flatlanders some much-needed topography.

All this almost sounds too good to be true -- and it could be if Mills takes a bait-and-switch route, shrinking the skylight to save money, filling in the grand entrances with income-producing floor area, and plastering the now-crisp exterior with signs.

Steve Jacobsen, the company's executive vice president, assures that Mills is devoted to quality, and Denise Casalino, the city's commissioner of planning and development, says she will hold the company to its promises. But Chicago has a way of giving developers lots of rope with which to hang themselves.

Mills still deserves credit for releasing a design that suitably responds to the different character of different streets. It is appropriately retail-oriented along State, brassy along the Randolph Street theater district and civic along Dearborn, where the planned office building would create a much-needed "wall" for Daley Plaza's "urban room."

The plan has additional appeal because of its intelligent architectural response to the reality that the block can't all be rebuilt at once.

It's better to go with the podium now than to keep the block empty forever. But Johnson's design is far superior to the typical Chicago condo development -- the "plop architecture" combination of a slab tower dropped atop a massive parking garage podium.

Integrating podium, towers

Not only is his podium remarkably permeable. He uses interlocking masses to integrate the podium and the towers. He also joins them with the proposed digital decoration, which would zip across the podium's facade -- and straight up the residential and hotel towers.

But because those towers will be built in later phases of the project, they are sure to look different from the present model. The actual look of the digital decoration, which would mark the first time that digital design has been used at such a massive scale in a Chicago skyscraper, is equally undetermined.

Johnson's architecture is also coming into focus, though it already suggests a contemporary reinterpretation of classic Chicago School skyscrapers: Simple rectilinear shapes would give way to more assertively sculptural forms toward the project's core.

The gossamer-light exterior would work in effective counterpoint with such massive surrounding structures as the Field's State Street store. And the digital decoration would be a 21st Century version of the organic ornament that wraps the base of Louis Sullivan's nearby Carson Pirie Scott store.

There are trouble spots. Johnson, for example, should rework the repetitious rhythms of his State Street facade. In addition, it is essential that the developers bring in entertainment and other uses that give life to the project throughout the day. It can't just be a shopping mall.

Still, those are quibbles: This is a very impressive beginning. With its bold blend of contemporary art and architecture, Johnson's design promises to build on the triumph of Millennium Park. But it is one thing to create grand civic space on the lakefront and quite another to do it in the harsh commercial confines of the Loop.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/nationworld/chi-0409050346sep05,1,7445773.story

:dunno:

How did this end up in the orlando rising thread?

I LOVE ALL THE PROJECTS IN ORLANDO! Does anybody have anymore info on the AJAX Stadium? When everything is complete Orlando will have 6 High Rise Skyscrapers. All Downtown Orlando needs now is a mall and more Luxurios hotels.

Let me restate what i emplied in the last reply, there will be 7 highrise Skyscrapers in Orlando, FL. The City Center is still in construction. Who knows when its will be done, its been u/c for years now. The City Center will be about 26 stories tall.

Still in construction? There has never been ANY construction on that site since the City Center project was announced. Last I heard Pizzuti sold the property to Colonial Properties. Do you have information we don't?

You know I wanted to respond to those posts but really didn't know where to start.

In addition to the City Center statement, how the heck did you come up with 7 high rises? What is your criteria for defining a high rise? I know this is an age old question but I'm curious what criteria led to the number 7.

He was probably counting the three highrises of The Plaza, 55 West, The Vue, The Sanctuary (and then City Centre). However, there is CNL and Star Tower as well.

Tallest Condo in Town Set to Break Ground in December
By Alex Finkelstein
Last updated: Wednesday, September 8, 2004 10:50am

ORLANDO-Banking on a national residential relocation trend that is seeing older suburban homeowners moving back to the city, Chicago-based Churchill Development Group and Westminister Partners are scheduling a tentative December groundbreaking for their planned $85-million Downtown condominium venture called the Vue at Lake Eola. The developers have contracts on half of the 384 units.

At 35 stories and 426 feet tall, the complex will be the tallest residential structure in Central Florida and the second-tallest building Downtown, next to the 35-story, 442-foot tall SunTrust Center at 200 S. Orange Ave. City planning officials tell GlobeSt.com the Federal Aviation Administration still has to approve the building's height since aircraft from Orlando International Airport, 15 miles south of Downtown, fly over Downtown air space regularly.

The developers also have to close on their purchase of the 1.7-acre site on the southwest corner of the Rosalind Avenue and Robinson Street intersection, across the street from the 13-story, 200,000-sf Eola Park Center office building, owned by Florida Office Property Co., an affiliate of Chicago-based Jones Lang LaSalle.

Downtown brokers familiar with central business district land prices say the 1.7-acre lot from owner Dr. Phillips Inc., the largest private industrial landlord in the metro area, will probably go for $1 million per acre or about $23 per sf.

City planners say the developers initially had planned 318 dwelling units, 4,000 sf of retail and a 672-space parking garage in a 404-foot tall building. "Since the initial approval [on Feb. 17, 2004], escalating costs for steel and changing market conditions have prompted the applicant to propose changes to the project," a planning department staffer tells GlobeSt.com. The developers increased the number of units to 384; the amount of retail to 6,000 sf; and the parking garage size to 674 spaces.
http://www.globest.com/news/110_110/orlando/126235-1.html

Good news. Its pretty sad that the Vue is basically under construction and was only announced about 4 months ago and 55W, North Orange, and the Plaza are not.

I hope to heck there is not a problem with the FAA approval!

:wallbash:

City planning officials tell GlobeSt.com the Federal Aviation Administration still has to approve the building's height since aircraft from Orlando International Airport, 15 miles south of Downtown, fly over Downtown air space regularly.

Huh? Orlando International? I thought it was because of the Executive airport?

I thought so too. If its because of an airport 15 miles away thats pretty freakin' ridiculous.

Rosen Breaks Ground on Estimated $300M Resort
By Alex Finkelstein
Last updated: Friday, September 10, 2004 08:39am

ORLANDO-Rosen Hotels & Resorts, the largest privately owned and operated hotel development organization in Florida headed by entrepreneur and philanthropist Harris Rosen, has started construction on one of the most ambitious hospitality industry projects here in the last 10 years.

The property is the 14-story, 1,500-room Rosen Shingle Creek Resort being built on 230 acres in south Orlando at an estimated hard construction cost of $300 million, area hotel brokers familiar with the Rosen brand tell GlobeSt.com. The resort, located off Universal Boulevard, will have 250,000 sf of meeting and exhibit space when it opens in late 2006. The meeting rooms will have 36-foot-high ceilings.

The Rosen hotel will be competing with regional convention hotels such as the Gaylord Palms in nearby Kissimmee and the adjoining Swan and Dolphin hotels at Walt Disney World in Lake Buena Vista. Gaylord Palms has 400,000 sf of meeting space; Swan-Dolphin hotels, 329,000 sf. Nearby is the four-million-sf Orange County Convention Center.

Rosen couldn't be reached by GlobeSt.com's publication deadline. But area brokers tell GlobeSt.com Rosen is trying to build the project at about $200,000 per room--considered below the prevailing hard construction costs for comparable luxury properties. The hotel will have a 95,000-sf, column-free ballroom, 55,000-sf of breakout rooms and 30 hospitality suites.

Rosen Hotels & Resorts owns and operates six other resorts in Central Florida totaling 6,500 rooms and suites. In January, Rosen opened the 151,000-sf University of Central Florida's Rosen School of Hospitality Management at a development cost of $28.1 million or about $186 per sf. Harris Rosen and his wife Trisha donated $18.2 million to the project and pledged $1.1 million for scholarships to students attending the school.
http://globest.com/news/112_112/orlando/126369-1.html

where exactly is this property located? is it the plot of land adjecent to the convention center, or somewhere else? I know where Universal Blvd is but I can't think of anywhere along the road where there is 230 acres of open space!

U wanna know the meaning of a high rise, refer to the experts, like i did. http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/ci/bu/sk/li/?id=101340&bt=2&ht=2&sro=1
copy and paste above and you won't have to ponder anymore.Theres actually more than 7 but i'm only counting the major one's. Enjoy the website, i'm sure if your on here you've seen it, if not, here's something new for u.

didnt know it was that huge ;-)

Well then if emporis says those are the high rises in Orlando, then it must be right......

Thanks for clearing that up.

emporis is wrong. Unfortunately the City Center project is dead. skydivejunkee is right in that the property was sold to colonial properties (along with pizzuti's other properties in Hearthrow). Ron Pizzuti has sold everything in Orlando including his Isleworth home. As far as I know, there are currently NO plans for that site.

well in other news, as Tim3167 has reported, The Plaza has broken ground as planned yesterday (9/15).
It will bring 2 towers and a movie theater downtown. I can't wait to see what kind of development and streetlife can develop as a result of the movie theater. Exciting news for DT Orlando

Awesome!!! :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:

well in other news, as Tim3167 has reported, The Plaza has broken ground as planned yesterday (9/15).
It will bring 2 towers and a movie theater downtown. I can't wait to see what kind of development and streetlife can develop as a result of the movie theater. Exciting news for DT Orlando

I think what is most exciting about this for me is that this is basically going to move downtown Orlando into a whole other level. No other downtown in Florida will have this opportunity, at least not before Orlando. For that, I'm very proud. Its amazing what a movie theater and a few shops/restaurants can do.

I think what is most exciting about this for me is that this is basically going to move downtown Orlando into a whole other level. No other downtown in Florida will have this opportunity, at least not before Orlando. For that, I'm very proud. Its amazing what a movie theater and a few shops/restaurants can do.

I agree. Orlando is taking a different approach to downtown development than most of Florida's other cities, not big on height but focusing on residential, retail, and entertainment together. Hopefully soon Orange Ave can become as popular as Intl Drive (without the tourists ;) )

Hey, I think it is cool for Orlando (really I do) and all but St. Peterburg already has movies and shops and residential in the heart of downtown and Tampa has them in Channelside which will be completely connected in a few years - already kind of is by streetcar.

smiley,

honestly it wasn't meant to be a knock on other cities. I know Tampa has Channelside, and I really like the streetcar connecting Ybor. I also like the Centro Ybor development. St Pete, despite what it has, still seems a bit like a small town to me, but thats not a bad thing, especially with Tampa so close by.

What I was trying to say was that This development is a dense, urban project that is filling up a hole on our major artery and is really going to make a HUGE difference, both in appearance and urbanity/vibrancy, allowing downtown to really move up a notch from what it is now.

It's great to see that most of Orlando's condo construction is in downtown, unlike alot of other cities.

SkyDive - you are correct about the impact on Orlando. I did not mean to minimize that at all. I think just a slight difference in interpretation of what you wrote caused a little friendly confusion. No Problem. Rock on.

I am amazed to see all the development going on in dt orlando.

This pano really shows downtown orlando rising.

http://img43.photobucket.com/albums/v133/sunshineboy/april2004orlandopano1.jpg

Whoa.....Awesome Pano Texasboy!! :) :) :)

^that's one of Sunshineboy's Orlando panos.

edit

This pano really shows downtown orlando rising.

Not really. All of those buildings are pretty old. Highrises are just now being built again here, but in bulk.

That pano is actually outdated at this point, as the Sanctuary is now topped out at the far right of the picture, where the crane is.

Just in: There are 27 new European style loft units being constructed on Magnolia Ave across from the Orlando sentinel. The building will be approximately 7 stories and include rooftop terraces. There will also be a 2 story parking garage with car type elevators for entry to second floor. I'll update as soon as I can get renderings.

Awesome news! What does European style mean? Med. Revival? I hope not, that style is NOT Orlando, we can do better! I'm really into this new style with EOla South, the Brownstones, Thornton Park Central, its risky and fun and works very well. Hopefully we can get more of that.

Not exactly sure myself except the builder and I believe the designer are both from Miami. If that leads to any indications. I should have some renderings within the next couple of weeks.

I've been hoping to get this image electronically for awhile now. This is a rendering of the VUE in the Orlando skyline at night. There's a huge version of this in the VUE sales office.

http://img75.exs.cx/img75/1711/vue.jpg

Very Nice fill in!!!

3 towers set to rise from crumbling downtown block

By Jack Snyder | Sentinel Staff Writer
Posted October 7, 2004

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Developer Cameron Kuhn said Wednesday he has secured financing to begin work on the redevelopment of a key city block in downtown Orlando.

Kuhn said he needed $69 million in sales before he could lock in development financing. He is nearing $95 million.

It would be the largest redevelopment in the city center's history, featuring two office towers, a residential tower with 310 condominiums, 105,000 square feet of retail space and a 1,600-space parking garage.

The project is in the block bounded by Orange Avenue on the west, Church Street on the south, Pine Street on the north and Magnolia Avenue on the east.

The $140 million project is to be completed by spring 2006.

The office space is being sold as condominiums -- owned by either investors or users. But Kuhn said most of the buyers are users.

And more than half of the businesses buying in the complex are coming from the suburbs, said Tom Cook, president of Tom Cook Commercial Inc., which has been handling sales.

In fact the complex, originally named The Plaza, has been renamed Premiere Trade Plaza, after an Altamonte Springs company that bought 61,000 square feet of space.

James Dix, president and chief executive officer of Premiere Trade LLC, a financial services and software products company, said the company currently is renting 31,000 square feet.

He decided to buy "because anytime I'm not paying rent, I'm excited." Dix said he has about 60 employees but projects growth to 100 by the end of this year and 200 by next year.

Kuhn said the strength of sales proves the viability of condominium offices. "They said you can't sell condo offices on a big scale," he said. "They're wrong."

Along with three towers, Premiere Trade Plaza will have a 12-screen movie theater, downtown's first in years. The theater will be operated by AmStar Entertainment, a Birmingham, Ala., company that recently opened a 12-screen theater at Colonial TownPark in Lake Mary.

Redevelopment of the block -- it had deteriorated over the years with closed stores and a shabby appearance -- has been a key goal for the city. Urged on by Mayor Buddy Dyer, the city approved $22.5 million in incentives for the project in the form of tax rebates, cash and loans. The biggest incentive was $14 million from the city to help pay for the parking garage.

"When I was first elected mayor, I promised to change the character of Orange Avenue," Dyer said Wednesday. "The start of the Plaza on Orange shows that we are well on our way."

Brasfield & Gorrie Inc. is the general contractor on the project. Development financing is by Regions Bank and Banco Popular.

Jack Snyder can be reached at 407-420-5094 or jsnyder@orlandosentinel.com.
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/business/orl-bizplaza07100704oct07,1,7099763.story

This project is going to change EVERYTHING about downtown Orlando, more than any other project. Its great to see offices incorporated into this, there is actually a substantial amount of office space u/c right now downtown. This, the CNL II tower and the Lynx tower.

Premiere Trade Buys 61,000-SF Office Condo at Kuhn Project
By Alex Finkelstein
Last updated: Monday, October 11, 2004 09:29am

ORLANDO-Advised by associates at one time that condominium offices wouldn't sell Downtown, local developer Cameron Kuhn has proved his critics wrong by selling $95 million worth of condo space, meeting a year-end groundbreaking and financing deadline. Kuhn wants to open the undertaking by spring 2006.

Kuhn needed $69 million in sales before Birmingham, AL-based Regions Bank and Banco Popular of Puerto Rico would commit development financing funds, area brokers intimate with the undertaking tell GlobeSt.com. A firm groundbreaking date for the three towers comprising 12, 17 and 22 stories, hasn't been set.

The biggest condo office buyer to date is Premiere Trade LLC, a financial services and software products company headed by James Dix and based in suburban Altamonte Springs. Premiere Trade purchased 61,000 sf of condo offices for an estimated $12.2 million or about $200 per sf, Downtown brokers familiar with the project tell GlobeSt.com.

As the largest condo tenant in the 370,000-sf office portion of the project, the venture has been renamed Premiere Trade Plaza. It was initially called the Plaza. Besides the office component, the project will have 105,000 sf of retail and restaurant space, 310 residential condominiums, a 12-screen movie theater and a 1,600 space parking garage.

The City of Orlando provided Kuhn with cash, tax rebates and loans valued at $22.5 million for the project, as GlobeSt.com previously reported. The city is financing the $14-million garage with a 10-year loan to Kuhn at a so-far undisclosed interest rate.

The cinema will the first Downtown since 1970. The central business district still has no major department store. Premiere Trade Plaza will be built on four of the city's highest profile blocks consisting of three acres and bordered by Orange and Magnolia avenues and Pine and Church streets.

The site is locally known as the Jaymont Block which other local and Saudi Arabian investors previously failed to develop over the last 15 years. Brasfield & Gorrie Inc. of Birmingham, AL is the general contractor for Premiere Trade Plaza. The project will represent the largest single construction job the Alabama firm has undertaken in metro Orlando, area construction industry sources tell GlobeSt.com.

The city of Orlando put out a bid for a parking lot aside Heritage Square on the corner of Washington and Magnolia downtown, and this is a proposed rendering, to be called the Dynetech Center, after the main tenant:
http://img23.exs.cx/img23/7783/100_1748c.jpg
There are two different developers who appear to be working together to make this a great mixed-use project. This is an awesome location, trust me! Its between 30-35 floors and on the same block as The Vue, which is set for construction December.

Our little town is coming of age. :)

That pic looks awfully familiar...

:)

^ thank you :)

let's cross our fingers for this one!! :)

i think this one is pretty much a GO when things get past planning since the city is involved.

High-rise would include grocery
Mayor Buddy Dyer announced plans for a new project in Thornton Park.

By Rich McKay | Sentinel Staff Writer
Posted October 28, 2004

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Supermarket shelves will be just an easy stroll away for downtown residents if a proposed 16-story high-rise of condos, business offices and a long-sought grocery store gets the go-ahead from the city.

Orlando Mayor Buddy Dyer announced Wednesday that the city has reached a tentative agreement with a development group to build a Publix grocery store, a key piece of the mayor's vision for a revitalizing downtown. Publix Super Markets Inc. has not confirmed the deal.

While the city has seen a downtown renaissance since 1999 and several developers had made pitches before for food stores, this is the first time officials said a downtown grocery is on the horizon.

"We knew we've needed three things -- [more] people living downtown, theaters and a grocery store," Dyer said at his state-of-the-downtown address at the Expo Centre before an audience of community and business leaders.

"A full-service grocery store is one of the last pieces of the puzzle in making downtown the 24-hour city we all envision," he said.

David Eichenblatt, an Atlanta developer who is wrapping up the conversion of the former Four Points by Sheraton Hotel to condominiums, said the introduction of a downtown grocery store is a big deal.

Stan Gerberer, an associate with Fishkind & Associates, an Orlando-based economic consulting firm, said that a grocery chain's interest in building downtown means that the industry is recognizing downtown's worth.

After all, it costs at least twice as much to build a store in a downtown than it does in the suburbs because of land costs and infrastructure.

"If the volume isn't there, they could see huge losses," he said. "Absolutely, it's a milestone for downtown Orlando."

While the name of the grocery was treated as an open secret when developer Kevin Lawler, with a newly formed Tampa development partnership, made a presentation Wednesday afternoon to the Community Redevelopment Agency Advisory Board, Lawler repeatedly said a 29,000-square-foot grocery store is central to the plan.

CRA board members repeatedly called it a Publix while Lawler, with Thornton Park Partners, said that he is obligated to keep the name secret for now.

If it is approved by the City Council, the $75 million project -- dubbed the Thornton Park project -- would be built at the corner of Central Boulevard and Lake Avenue.

It will also have about 312 residential units and about 5,000 square feet of retail space and about 3,000 feet of office space -- as well as underground parking for residents and shoppers.

The project got the approval of the CRA, including about $3.7 million in incentives and tax breaks, which will go before the City Council in mid-November.

Dyer also lauded the impending Dynetech Centre, a 27-story tower proposed for the corner of Magnolia Avenue and Washington Street.

The developers bought a city-owned parking lot at a price of $2.2 million for the 0.68-acre site. The developers will receive no concessions or incentives from the city, and the City Council at Monday's meeting approved this project.

Dyer emphasized the momentum that downtown is achieving, including a groundbreaking ceremony for Premiere Trade Plaza on Orange Avenue on Wednesday evening.

Dyer said that 14 months ago the Orlando Sentinel, writing about the Plaza, reported that "Homeless people, termites and rats the size of small dogs have taken over downtown Orlando's most coveted piece of real estate."

"We will break ground tonight on a construction project with high-rises, a movie theater, shops and restaurants," Dyer said.

The Plaza project is the largest redevelopment in the city center's history, featuring two office towers, a residential tower with 310 condominiums, 105,00 square feet of retail space, a 12-screen theater and a 1,600-space parking garage.

The $140 million project, set to be completed by spring 2006, has also received the biggest incentive package from the city, worth $22.5 million in tax rebates, cash and loans.

Dyer said that he thinks the city has reached a watershed moment, and the time of incentives for downtown development is over.

"If anyone is looking for more [public aid] they need to talk about developing in Parramore," the mayor said, referring to the next neighborhood he wants to redevelop.

Dyer also said he would like to see the city's arena and Citrus Bowl refurbished, although the costs estimated for such a project are up to $150 million.

While Dyer said he has no idea where the money would come from, he said it would be a boon for the city, spurring redevelopment of more neighborhoods. He pointed out that Jacksonville is hosting the upcoming Super Bowl, but Orlando has more hotel rooms and amenities.

"If we are able to develop a funding formula, the Citrus Bowl, when we are done, will be one of the pre-eminent facilities for football," he said.

Jack Snyder of the Sentinel staff contributed to this report. Rich McKay can be reached at 407-420-5470 or rmckay@orlandosentinel.com.
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/business/orl-bizdowntown28102804oct28,1,5677640.story

Lincoln Offers to Buy Downtown Parking Lot for $2M
By Alex Finkelstein
Last updated: Friday, October 29, 2004 01:17pm

ORLANDO-In what may become one of the highest prices ever paid for a small, city-owned Downtown parking lot, Lincoln Property Co. has offered to pay $2.2 million, or about $73.33 per sf, for an estimated 30,000-sf parcel at Magnolia Avenue and Washington Street.

The developer is also offering to build a 550-space parking garage at an estimated hard construction cost of $5.5 million and make 400 of the spaces available to the public at night and on weekends.

Lincoln needs the less-than-three-quarters-of-an-acre parking lot to build an estimated $40-million, 27-story structure housing 150,000 sf of office, 50,000 sf of ground-floor retail and 125 rental apartment units. Lincoln has told the city it already has a tenant to occupy the entire office space--Dynatech Corp., a locally based software products developer. The structure would be called Dynatech Centre and have a tentative opening of Jan. 1, 2007.

City staffers tell GlobeSt.com that if the deal doesn't go through with the city, elected officials will start a new round of negotiations with the No. 2 bidder, Atlanta-based Eichenblatt & Co. If those negotiations also fail, the city will turn to the No. 3 bidder, Chicago-based Westminster Partners and Churchill Development Group.

The city is offering no economic incentives package to any of the bidding developers, which it has done with several other multi-million-dollar commercial undertakings planned for Downtown over the next few years. Downtown brokers monitoring the various development proposals that have surfaced in the last 18 months tell GlobeSt.com the city has offered economic concessions packages valued at over $75 million to various developers over the past five years.

Commenting on the $2.2-million price tag on the Magnolia Avenue and Washington Street parking lot, Dean Fritchen, a senior broker in the Winter Park office of Coldwell Banker Commercial NRT, tells GlobeSt.com: "That goes to show you how little Downtown dirt is available these days and how much developers are willing to pay for a prime location, no matter how small the pad might be."

GlobeSt.com research shows the highest price paid for Downtown dirt occurred in November 2003 when developer Cameron Kuhn and three lawyers at locally based Alvarez Sambol Winthrop and Madson paid retired British billionaire industrialist Joseph Lewis $10.8 million, or $4.72 million per acre ($108.26 per sf), for the vacant 2.3-acre Jaymont Block in the heart of Downtown.

The previous highest recorded price for a Downtown commercial property was paid by Lewis and his Orlando associates when they first bought the Jaymont Block in November 2001 from a Saudi Arabian syndicate for $7.6 million or $3.3 million per acre ($76.19 per sf).

But Bobby Palta, executive director of market analytics and geographic information systems in the local office of Colliers Arnold Real Estate Co., tells GlobeSt.com he recalls that since the Kuhn land purchase in 2003, "there have been small deals where the price has gotten up to as high as $90 per sf."

http://www.globest.com/news/148_148/orlando/128027-1.html

The best thing mentioned in this article is that the city is giving no incentives...an indication that the market is maturing.

http://www.florida-beach-condos.net/downtownorlandocondos.html

Pics of all orlando projects

nice list renner!
I really like that angle they got on the waverly btw

I like the Plaza Orlando view as well, I haven't seen that one.

$140M Mixed-Use Venture Breaks Ground Downtown
By Alex Finkelstein
Last updated: Monday, November 1, 2004 12:44pm

For more retail coverage, click GlobeSt.com/RETAIL.

ORLANDO-Five years in the planning stage, local developer Cameron Kuhn's $140 million, three-tower, one-million-sf Premiere Trade Plaza has broken ground on the most expensive 2.3-acre parcel in the central business district. Brasfield & Gorrie Inc., the Birmingham, AL-based general contractor building the project, is shooting for a spring 2006 completion date.

Premiere Trade Plaza's three buildings will comprise 370,000 sf of office, 105,000 sf of retail, 310 condominium homes, a 12-screen movie theater and a 1,600-space parking garage. The structures will be 12, 17 and 22 stories on a block bounded by Orange and Magnolia Avenues and Church and Pine Streets--Downtown's four busiest commercial corridors.

Kuhn, a 41-year-old, former Chicago home builder, and three law partners in Orlando-based Alvarez Sambol Winthrop and Madson paid retired British billionaire industrialist Joseph Lewis and his associates at Orlando-based Tavistock Group and Toronto developer Russell Allan $10.8 million for the previously rundown Downtown property. The deal, done in November of last year, equates to $4.72 million per acre. Planners consider the asset to be the redevelopment core of the central business district.

At $108.26 per sf, the per-sf price is unprecedented in local land deals, according to the Orange County real estate records office. "I've never heard of anything higher," Jack McCabe, CEO of McCabe Research and Consulting LLC of Deerfield Beach, FL, tells GlobeSt.com. "The highs for Downtown Orlando recently have been in the $60-and-$70-per-sf range."

Kuhn's lawyer partners, Raul Alvarez, Griff Winthrop and Steven Sambol arranged financing for the land deal. Birmingham, AL-based Regions Bank and Banco Popular of Puerto Rico are providing construction funds.

The 12-screen theater is expected to be the magnet for the entire Kuhn project, Downtown retail brokers tell GlobeSt.com. Five-year-old Amstar Entertainment LLC of Birmingham, AL will be building the movie house. Kuhn is also partnering with Thornton Park developer Phil Rampy to construct and operate a seafood restaurant at Premiere Trade Plaza.

To motivate Kuhn and his associates in building the four-block undertaking, the city of Orlando provided the development team a total $22.5 million in tax rebates, cash and loans--the largest economic incentives package of its kind in Orlando development history, local independent planners tell GlobeSt.com. At its peak construction period, the project is expected to have about 1,000 workers on site, local sources say.
http://www.globest.com/news/149_149/orlando/128076-1.html

As stated before, the height of the towers is all wrong from this source. The office towers are 16 and 21 stories and the condo tower will come in at approx. 30 stories.

Congratualtions. Should be good

I am disappointed that this website

http://www.florida-beach-condos.net...andocondos.html

has not filled in their West Coast pages. Let the realtors do the work. . .

By the way, you should be alble to link the renderings, let me try

http://www.florida-beach-condos.net/plazaorlando.gif

Thanks for posting. At ground level this is going to appear huge considering the narrowness of the streets around it. It think thats awesome!.

I find it very odd that the Farmer Baker Barios web site has the new soccer field located in the Pizzuti vacang lot across from the court house. They have a virtual tour of how it will look driving down Orange ave too. Does anyone have more info on this?

I find it very odd that the Farmer Baker Barios web site has the new soccer field located in the Pizzuti vacang lot across from the court house. They have a virtual tour of how it will look driving down Orange ave too. Does anyone have more info on this?


Very interesting. I love the idea for the project, but would prefer that it not sit on that site-- that land should be reserved for a tower complex of some sort rather than a soccer field.

On another note, that web site is excellent (http://www.fbbarch.com/ for those who haven't seen).

Go to the web site, click on "projects" then "residential" then "04" and you'll see Central Park Apartments. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that appears to be in downtown Orlando. If so, it looks like a brilliant project for downtown. Any more info?

Oh, and the rendering for the Ivanhoe under "mixed-use" looks promising too.

Ouch, I really hope it won't go down on that site
Assuming how prime the location is I can bet they paid a pretty penny for that property. For the price they paid they should put something much more potentially profitable than a soccer field for a foreign sports team. Bleh

I just saw the 3d thing for the soccer field as well, and while I would love to have a Rockefeller Center on that prime piece of land, the soccer field has some nice elements to it. Its probably the most urban soccer field i've ever seen, lol.

Also, here are the first renderings to emerge for the mixed-use highrise on Central Ave in the Thornton Park area. THis will have ground floor retail including the Publix we've been talking about. I generally like the project.

http://home.earthlink.net/~tmalinovsky/Centralelevation.gif
http://home.earthlink.net/~tmalinovsky/Lakeelevation.gif
http://home.earthlink.net/~tmalinovsky/Pineelevation.gif

Also,

here is another rendering for the new Federal Courthouse under construction in Parramore:
http://home.earthlink.net/~tmalinovsky/fedct.gif
front side:
http://img43.photobucket.com/albums/v133/sunshineboy/orlandoproject/federalcourhouse.jpg

It has similar design elements to Miami's new courthouse, though obviously less flashy:
http://www.ellisdon.com/ed/images/featureprojects/26.jpg

Elsewhere it is being reported *as a rumor* that 55W has lost its financing. Anyone know anything about this ?

"Rumor"

hope so

The NBA commisioner came to an Orlando Magic Lucheon and metioned if Orlando does not build a new arena, it won't be a good thing. I really think that by building a new arena orlando will not only have the Magic still here and not in Kansas but we'll have more artists come to orlando which will bring more money to the city. So as it stands, Orlando will have aprox. 4 major highrise buildings in the core of downtown Orlando- The Vue 35 stories, 55 West 31 stories, Plaza 31 or some other sources say 26 and last but not least the new addition, Dynatech Centre 27 stories. Here is the pic of the new Dynatech Centre http://home.earthlink.net/~tmalinovsky/dynetech.gif

Dynetch Center is BUTT ugly!

CNL II is also rising, though I dont know if that is considered a skyscraper.

I'm going out on a limb here and saying that is definitely a RUMOR. The units are currently selling very well. They have completely restructured their sales force to better fit clients needs and thus far have seen an increase in sales. And starting at around $250/sf (including a list of new non-charge features for ex. granite, stainless appl., hardwood flooring, etc) it is directly in line with its competition and should move quickly.

Sorry, the above is related to 55W.

I just don't see how Orlando can afford to build a new arena. Is the bed tax enough ?

well i read in the orlando sentinal that as soon as the commissioner made that comment, mayor dyer called up the owner of the magic and thier tryin to find a way to build it without taxing the public. The Orlando Magic is a big part of Orlando, it makes our city known worldwide not just for mickey mouse.

Orlando MUST somehow retain the Magic. It is vital for the atmosphere that this city is trying to build.

http://www.vueorlando.com/media/newsdetails.php?id=10

I just posted this on urbanplanet.org It really puts the condo boom downtown into perspective.

we need to keep the magic. If we loose that alot of the pull factor downtown will be destroyed.

Check out the new OBJ ! Rumor is Kuhn is close to announcing he BIG ONE ! Redevelopment of the J.C. Penny block (salvaging the facades) which will be TWICE THE SIZE of Premiere Trade Towers !

holy crap! which block is this?

J.C. Penney block. I believe OBJ online will have it tonight.

More info:

Block bounded by Orange, Washington, Garland and Jefferson.

400,000 sq. ft. office tower

150,000 sq. ft. office condos

100,000 sq. ft. outdoor shopping plaza

residential tower and 2,600 space parking garage

So this block is on the I-4 side of Orange Ave I believe. Isn't there a parking garage there right now?

Can't wait to see the article. With all of this new development and rapid growth, its time for Orlando to really take a seriously look at establishing a local light rail or commuter rail system.

So this block is on the I-4 side of Orange Ave I believe. Isn't there a parking garage there right now?

A municipal parking lot, the old Penney's building, couple of bars and several vacant storefronts.

Can't wait to see the article. With all of this new development and rapid growth, its time for Orlando to really take a seriously look at establishing a local light rail or commuter rail system.

Speculation is that the election of mel Martinez may expedite commuter rail.

A municipal parking lot, the old Penney's building, couple of bars and several vacant storefronts.

Which bars are in there? It may also be time to reconsider the light rail project between the tourist corridor and downtown that was canned a few years back by like 1 vote. The time is definitely better, and the city is far more united on these issues now than before. With all these new development/retail options the local scene, while I'm sure will be present, will not be able to support it fully like getting our tourists downtown. Imagine if each tourist spent one day away from the parks and in downtown Orlando...

Thee Grotto, Alpha Bar, Scruffy Murphy's. It's across the street from the 'Copper Whopper'.

Light rail ain't gonna happen anytime soon. But I'd almost be willing to bet that commuter rail is up and running before the end of the decade.

100th post! This is amazing, i cant wait to see what project gets anounced for the former city center land as a result of this.

GlobeSt.com UPDATE: Developers Plan $1B Mixed-Use Enterprise Near Convention Center
By Alex Finkelstein
Last updated: November 12, 2004 12:44pm

ORLANDO-In what would be the most ambitious mixed-use venture attempted in the metro area over the past 10 years, developers Marc Watson of Orlando and Stan Thomas of Smyrna, GA are asking the city to annex their 1,780 acres in south Orlando so they can develop 10,000 hotel rooms, 6,000 condominium rental units and an undetermined amount of commercial space along Sand Lake Road near Universal Boulevard in unincorporated Orange County.

The developers' company, Fourth Quarter Properties XLIX LC, is shooting for a 2009 partial completion date on the project, even though contracts with national hotel players such as Hilton and Hyatt aren't yet buttoned down, area brokers tell GlobeSt.com. The venture, tentatively dubbed Orlando Glades, also plans to include a major promotional center on the property geared to attracting high-tech companies as tenants or land buyers.

The stakes are high in this undertaking for both the developers, land buyers, the city and the county, area industrial and resort brokers tell GlobeSt.com. If the city approves the annexation, it stands to gain about $120 million in tax revenue over the next six years, according to local independent planners and county staffers. That's the amount the county has been receiving from the land owners in annual property taxes and the amount it would be losing.

County chairman Rich Crotty, the county's former property appraiser, calls the city's annexation attempt "a financial land grab." His staffers tell GlobeSt.com the county will fight the city on the annexation issue. The city, likewise, is determined to have the project in its own backyard, largely because there are only 7,600 hotel rooms in the immediate Convention Center area.

The planned 10,000 new rooms would help the city attract larger and more prestigious events, city staffers tell GlobeSt.com. Hospitality industry sources estimate the metro area has a total 116,756 hotel and motel rooms, along with short-term rental properties.

On a separate front, Orange County property appraiser Bill Donegan has appealed an Orange Circuit Court judge's ruling that allows Watson and Thomas to keep an 'agricultural' zoning stamp on their 1,780 acres, largely because they are farming pine trees to aid the environment, as GlobeSt.com previously reported. That agricultural exemption has cost the county $1.4 million in tax revenue since the zoning dispute started in 2002, Donegan says. It has also saved Thomas-Watson thousands in property tax payments.

Meanwhile, two recently completed land deals could be affected by both the annexation and zoning exemption disputes, brokers following the project and the controversies tell GlobeSt.com.

In August, for example, Watson and Thomas sold Pulte Home Corp. of Bloomfield Hills, MI an 80-acre Universal Boulevard tract, within their 1,780-acre property, for $75.04 million, or $938,000 per acre, which equates to $21.53 per sf--the highest per-sf price recorded this year for tourist corridor land, according to Orange County real estate records.

In June, as GlobeSt.com also previously reported, Watson-Thomas sold another 29.5 acres to Intrawest/Orlando Development Corp., an affiliate of Vancouver, BC-based Intrawest Corp., for $19.6 million or $662,711 per acre ($15.21 per sf). The unannounced Pulte and Intrawest projects are crucial components in the development of Watson-Thomas' $1.2-billion undertaking, area planners tell GlobeSt.com. Intrawest Corp. is an international developer of ski resorts.

As the Watson-Thomas tract of 1,780 acres grows more valuable each day, land brokers tell GlobeSt.com the developers will probably never get an opportunity to buy dirt as cheaply as they did in February 2003. At that time, the partners paid Universal Studios an estimated $70 million or about $38,889 per acre (89 cents per sf). "They are now selling parts of that land for almost 25 times more than what they paid for it a year ago," a seasoned south Orlando land broker, who has not participated in the land transactions, tells GlobeSt.com. "They had the foresight, the vision and were willing to take a calculated risk in buying the dirt."
http://www.globest.com/news/159_159/orlando/128553-1.html

From OBJ 11/15/04

Kuhn: Yet another downtown project

Even as his much-anticipated Premiere Trade Plaza project is just getting under way, Cameron Kuhn is working on his next multimillion-dollar downtown conquest.

This time, the downtown redevelopment mogul has the city block bounded by Orange Avenue, Washington Street, Garland Avenue and Jefferson Street under contract. Currently, the property is home to a municipal parking lot, the old J.C. Penney building, a couple of local watering holes and a number of vacant storefronts.

Kuhn's plans: a 400,000-square-foot office tower, 150,0000 square feet of office condos, a 100,000-square-foot outdoor retail center, another residential tower and a 2,600-space parking garage. "It will be twice the size of Premiere Trade Plaza," says Kuhn.

Although Kuhn did not release any other details on the deal or project, he did say the old J.C. Penney building is going to get a face lift as part of the project. It will become part of the office condos.

However, Kuhn also adds that he learned his lesson about dealing with old buildings in downtown Orlando last year when he began demolition on the Premiere Trade Plaza property at the corner of Orange Avenue and Church Street. "Don't worry," he says. "This time, I'm keeping the facades."
_____________

This guy is really transforming downtown Orlando.

Another promising proposal:

Kodsi plans new mixed-use project for northwest corner of Colonial Drive, Orange Avenue
Noelle C. Haner
Staff Writer
At 31, Steve Kodsi is one of several young developers who are changing the landscape of downtown Orlando, one mixed-use condo project at a time.
Thus far, the owner of Historic Creations Design & Development has two projects under his belt -- the Buddy Ebsen Dance School loft conversion and The Sanctuary, a 173-unit, 18-story condo.
Over the next three years, he will add three more projects to the list.
The most ambitious of the new projects is a 7-acre, mixed-use project proposed for the northwest corner of Colonial Drive and Orange Avenue. Dubbed "Mid-town," Kodsi believes the project's plans for 700-800 residential units, 500,000 square feet of commercial space and a 1,700-space parking garage will bridge the downtown central business district and the new development in Orlando's Uptown area. The property was bought earlier this year from Sentinel Communications for $6.7 million.
And, although the Colonial Drive/Orange Avenue project is not slated to break ground until 2007, Kodsi already is working on the plans. "The residential units will include a boutique hotel, rentals and condos, and we have a sports channel that wants to broadcast from the development," he says.
"This is the next step in the evolution of Orange Avenue," says Kodsi. "We consider this intersection Main and Main. It's where everything meets in downtown."
In addition, Historic Creations recently bought the former Kinko's building at the corner of Robinson and Magnolia streets. The building will become the headquarters for Historic Creations as well as accommodate retail and restaurant tenants.
Moreover, Kodsi plans to build the 105-unit Star Tower condo project. Located on Osceola Avenue between Jackson and Mariposa streets, work won't begin on it until next year, but there already are 800 people on the waiting list.
Redevelopment and urban cowboys
To be sure, redevelopment has been the catchphrase for downtown Orlando for more than a decade.
The movement dates back to the '90s when City Hall and the Downtown Development Board focused on residential and commercial development in Parramore and the central business district.
During that time, Orange County built a new courthouse, and Orlando got a new City Hall. CNL Financial Group built a high-rise office building. Hughes Supply Inc. built a $53 million mixed-use project -- Hughes Square. And today, construction on the new Federal Courthouse and the new Florida Agricultural and Mechanical University law school campus are part of what was envisioned for downtown redevelopment.
At the same time, a group of young urban developers -- age 45 and under -- began creating their own visions of downtown, beginning with some of Orlando's urban neighborhoods.
Phil Rampy and Craig Ustler led the charge, redeveloping the Thornton Park area. The two teamed to build one of the first new condo projects in the area in years. Construction on Thornton Park Central began in 2000, and today, the 56-loft, 300,000-square-foot, upscale, mixed-used urban village is one of downtown's great redevelopment stories.
The reasons are twofold, says Ustler, who is also a partner in Condo HQ Orlando LLC with Rampy. "We are our own customers," explains Ustler. "We like the diversity and the energy of urban living. We live what we build."
Then there is the risk factor. "Young developers tend to take the risks associated with urban development," notes Ustler.
Michael Beyard, senior resident fellow with The Urban Land Institute, agrees. "This is certainly the case in more entrepreneurial situations where it takes more passion than formula to get a project done," says Beyard. "These projects are more difficult to do, more time-consuming -- and while they also have more staying power in terms of long-term investment -- big developers can't wait for those returns. Wall Street demands a quick turnaround."
In his blood
Enter Kodsi.
For him, working in real estate and development is genetic. His father, Albert Kodsi, is the owner and president of Royal Palm Communities, a 25-year-old, Orlando-based home-building and development firm. Over the years, Kodsi has watched his dad develop nearly 50 condo projects in Central and South Florida.
Fresh from college, Kodsi came to Orlando in 1996, and he dove head-first into the family business. He launched Historic Creations a year later, focusing his sights on "intense" and dense development in downtown Orlando.
Kodsi started with an 11-unit project on Pine Street. There, with the help of his father, Kodsi's company built five custom homes and converted the former Buddy Ebsen Dance School into six lofts.
Then in October 2000, he began assembling land at the northwest corner of South Eola Drive and East Church Street. Taking a page from his father's game book and banking on the development of Thornton Park Central, Kodsi decided to build The Sanctuary -- the first high-rise condo project Orlando has seen in years.
"People asked me if I did any market research," says Kodsi." My market research was walking around Lake Eola with my friends and their dogs. I felt it in my gut. The area needed the supply, and the demand was already here."
The gamble paid off. Currently, 85 percent of The Sanctuary's 173 condos are under contract, and Kodsi says leases for the 30,000 square feet of retail are being negotiated. The entire project will be complete next summer.
Certainly, redevelopment advocates believe Kodsi's development risk will be downtown Orlando's reward. According to Frank Billingsly, executive director of the Downtown Development Board, the project will bring new activity to a long-neglected downtown corner.

Just found this on downtownorlando.com. All the information below was gathered from here: http://www.downtownorlando.com/ddb/DowntownOrlando/(kinqtm45kp2wcdz5pqitkt45)/pdf/ORLANDO%20TOWERS.pdf


ORLANDO TOWERS

Start: To Be Determined

Completion: To Be Determined

Planning Area: Uptown

Location: Approximately 1.56-acre site east of the Radisson Hotel between North Orange Avenue and South Ivanhoe Boulevard.

Description: Two, mixed-use luxury high-rise residences overlooking Lake Ivanhoe. The entire project will total approximately 967,411 square feet including retail and restaurant space on the ground floors. Tower I, a 34-story high-rise, is planned for 164 apartment units and Tower II will be 37 stories with 217 condominium lofts. Overall, Orlando Towers is planned for:

-481 total residential units
-Tower I - 164 apartments
-Tower II - 217 condos
-23,266 square feet of retail and restaurant space
-653-car parking garage

Investment: $67 million

Participants: International Housing Development Group / DBL Group LLC
Contact: Oliver Dannan - The Dannan Group Architects - 954.776.1698


http://web.mit.edu/bic/Public/Stuff/Orlando%20Towers.JPG

Great . . you can sit on the curb and drink coffee out of thermos and view the lake. THat's pretty relaxing. . . nice retail (don't get me wrong, I like the size but the street action sucks ass)

I'm hoping its a bit more urban as well, however, if you know where this is located (between two major intersections with no street interaction at all) this is actually a nice surprise (it does remind me of some of those condos in brickell that are very cut off from the street).

I agree Dale. Commuter rail, like Tri-Rail in South Fla., could easily be implemented on the freight tracks. That light rail proposal was probably a pay-off scam for public officials who succeeded in pushing it thru. Gotta keep your options open. We already got Amtrak coming from Orange City thru Sanford then Longwood-Altamonte-Maitland-Winter Park- Orange Ave./Lake Ivanhoe area then to downtown (and then south). How cool would it be if they built charming enclosed stations in each of those towns/areas. So many commuters would use it. Park 'n ride stations also.

I read a while back that a first leg of commuter rail might go from Poinciana through Kissimmee, north to downtown...honestly though, talking numbers alone, I really think a lightrail as proposed before, from disney, through I-Drive and on to downtown would get a shitload more riders (tourists/locals alike). Its something we need eventually. Las Vegas did it with their new monorail..

Here's what will really jump-start downtown: a new performing arts center (like Miami). Also, a downtown mall with real department stores, like Macy's and Bloomingdale's.

Depending on what happens with camerons new development he just anounced, the mall, may be a possibility.

I qouted this from the annual report for the Four Seasons Hotel-

"Including the 14 properties discussed above, currently we have 21 new projects under construction or in advanced stages of development in seven additional countries, and many more opportunities in the pipeline. During the past year we announced new projects in Orlando, Florida; Damascus, Syria; Langkawi, Malaysia; and a new residential project in Whistler, British Columbia. We also continue to seek out opportunities to rebrand existing hotels, and are ready to act as these situations arise."

I believe Four Seasons purchased land in Celebration.

those towers look sleek (like most of the projects Orlando's coming out with)

are there any renderings for the Premiere Trade Plaza project!

I think the website is www.plazaorlando.com. do a google search to be sure.

BUT, the Four Seasons project, I think, is going somewhere south of the built-up area of Celebration, along with the Reunion Resort.

Light Rail. You're probably right. My only point is that THEY debated about this cost and that cost and so forth. Light Rail would require new tracks and the purchase of right of way which could be controversial and expensive- cost prohibitive too. The HEAVY RAIL would only require the leasing of track from CSX and the cost of locomotives and passenger cars and stations.

The light rail project only lost by ONE vote...INCREDIBLY frustrating. All the federal money was lined up. Yes, it would cost a lot, but it would have been a huge, amazing project that the city could be proud of. Again, its a lack of civic vision, and a conservative fiscal agenda as opposed to a more aggresive one.

TRUE, my bruddah. Central Florida LACKS any civic vision. BUT, Imagine if it didn't...

This metro area is poised for BOTH types of RAIL:

1. Light Rail for, say, DOWNTOWN to ORMC to MILLENIA to BELZ to UNIVERSAL to I-DRIVE to the OCCC to SEA WORLD- to the SOUTH; then DOWNTOWN to UPTOWN(Lake Ivanhoe/Orange Ave) to FLORIDA HOSPITAL/MUSEUMS to WINTER PARK/PARK AVE.

2. COMMUTER RAIL for:
A. DOWNTOWN to WINTER PARK to MAITLAND to ALTAMONTE to LONGWOOD to LAKE MARY to SANFORD to DEBARY to DELAND.
B. DOWNTOWN up 441 to APOPKA to ZELLWOOD to EUSTIS to TAVARES (along the rail line next to 441).
C. DOWNTOWN down to KISSIMMEE (I need to see a map re existing rail route)

3. LIGHT RAIL or DIFFERENT SYSTEM for MCO connection to DOWNTOWN OR Convention area?

4. RAIL ROUTE down 528 to PORT CANAVERAL.

I believe the existing tracks run south of downtown along Orange Ave, behind the Florida mall down OBT and right into downtown Kissimmee where the station is now. I know they were talking about going as far as Poinciana, not sure if they will need to build new tracks there.

I suspect that prospects for commuter rail have improved with Mel Martinez in Congress.

might want to add a lightrail out east to conway, then northeast to UCF area. Then west to the Citrus Bowl/Parramore and on to metrowest. All a dream of course... :tongue:

might want to add a lightrail out east to conway, then northeast to UCF area. Then west to the Citrus Bowl/Parramore and on to metrowest. All a dream of course... :tongue:

Oh, I think it's very realistic...by 2050. :wink2:

But probably commuter rail by the end of the decade.

Well, since we're talking about Central Florida, I'd have to agree regarding the 2050 timeline. :) Realistically, though, (did i spell that right?) this place can be so backwards sometimes.

I left out the east/west route b/c there's no existing rail corridor there. I mean, if they aren't going to build another east/west expressway through altamonte/maitland/longwood/lake mary area b/c of easement issues, they sure ain't gonna purchase easement for a rail line especially when the urban density isn't maxed out. THat's why I think COMMUTER RAIL from way out with PARK N RIDE lots could work and get cars off of I-4.

I suppose Orlando could be accused of lack of foresight at times, but I also think there's a streak of libertarianism with which I cannot argue.

County Cuts City Out of Potential $120M Land Deal
By Alex Finkelstein
Last updated: December 1, 2004 01:55pm

ORLANDO-It was supposed to be a cut and dried deal for the city as they drew up plans to annex about 6,300 prime acres of developable land in the tax-rich corridor of International Drive, Orlando's main tourist artery in the south end of the city.

Annexation of the land along Sand Lake Road near Universal Boulevard in unincorporated Orange County would have meant about $120 million in tax revenue over the next six years to Orlando, local independent planners and county staffers tell GlobeSt.com.

The annexation appeared to be a routine assignment for the city since developers Marc Watson of Orlando and Stan Thomas of Smyrna, GA had initially asked the city to annex their 1,800 acres in the same district. The developers' company, Fourth Quarter Properties XLIX LC, is shooting for a 2009 partial completion date on 10,000 hotel rooms, 6,000 condominium rental units and an undetermined amount of commercial space where corner lots, when available, routinely sell for $1 million per acre. The city had crafted a contract with the county in 1994 to allow similar annexations.

But county chairman Rich Crotty publicly announced he would dispute that 1994 agreement, made during former county chairman Linda Chapin's tenure. Crotty vowed he would ask the courts, if it came to that, to arbitrate the controversy. He also contacted Gov. Jeb Bush and Georgia Gov. Sonny Perdue, Crotty acknowledged.

The developers backed out of their deal with the city as the county assured them they could provide the infrastructure need for Orlando Glades, the Watson-Smyrna mega project, other consultants and planners in a position to know tell GlobeSt.com. Watson, Thomas and Crotty couldn't be reached by GlobeSt.com's publication deadline.

The developers tentatively hope to break ground on their project in 2005.

I was able to ask the mayor of orlando a few questions about some of the things that we're all curious about. Here is an exert from the email he sent me...

Thank you for taking the time to share your opinions and suggestions about development in downtown. You brought up a few different projects and I would like to comment on what is happening right now with them.

The Citrus Bowl renovations are in the planning/discussion phase right now. We are researching all options and possibilities to see what is needed to make it a reality. At this time, funding options for these improvements have not been finalized. UCF and the Florida Citrus Sports Association will be an integral part of these discussions.

In regards to the arena, the City and the Orlando Magic have had ongoing conversations on how to either improve the TD Waterhouse or how to design and fund a new arena. The decision on which option to choose has not been made and both groups are discussing options to move forward in a way that accomplishes the goals of both organizations.

You also discussed light rail and I would like to let you know that a few years ago, the city initiated a light rail project that would have been partially funded by the Federal Government. Orange County was also a funding partner, and chose to pull out at the last minute causing the federal funding to be pulled. This would have allowed the first leg of a light rail system to be built from International Drive to the Downtown core.

However, there is a new initiative underway to build a commuter rail line. The city is currently a funding partner in the North-South Commuter Rail Study, and has been an advocate for light rail since first considered in the central Florida area. We are working hard to provide multi-modal transportation options.

Once again, thank you for your e-mail and your suggestions!

Sincerely,

Buddy Dyer
Mayor

Hope this answer's people's assumptions of what they think is happening

In other words - we're looking at everything and doing nothing.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not ragging on Orlando, all local governments around here seem to be like that.

Regarding that project near Sand Lake and I-Drive: Who cares if the property is city or county owned, as long as it gets built.

Regarding the commuter rail corridor study: Go to Lynx's website. there's a single paragraph about it.

Orlando set to grow again -- up
A retail-office tower would oust some nightspots, at least temporarily.

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STORY GALLERY

Orlando's downtown development
Orlando's downtown development


Advertisement
By Jack Snyder | Sentinel Staff Writer
Posted December 9, 2004

Cameron Kuhn, who last year launched downtown Orlando's largest redevelopment project, said Wednesday that he plans an even bigger retail-office complex a few blocks away.

The new project could exceed 750,000 square feet of offices, stores, bars, restaurants and parking. It would encompass the block bounded by Jefferson Street on the north, Orange Avenue on the east, Washington Street on the south and a city parking lot on the west.

If it all comes together, the redevelopment would top Kuhn's project under way at Orange and Church Street, known as the Jaymont Block.

That $140 million project includes 389,000 square feet of condominium office space, 305 condominium apartments, retail space and a 12-screen theater.

It is the largest redevelopment project in the city to date and is scheduled for completion in 2006.

A source familiar with the new project, who for business reasons would discuss the project only if not identified, said the city may participate in the redevelopment's parking-garage component -- possibly a 12-story parking tower.

Kuhn could not be reached Wednesday to elaborate on the plans.

Frank Billingsley, executive director of the Downtown Development Board, also could not be reached for comment.

Multimillion-dollar deal

In a written statement, Kuhn said the new project is still in the preliminary design stages and is targeted for completion by 2008.

However, Kuhn has already purchased most of the block for about $16 million.

The acquisition of the former J.C. Penney building at Orange and Jefferson for $11.75 million was completed Wednesday.

The city's largest concentration of office space in a single existing development is SunTrust Center, with nearly 650,000 square feet in two buildings. The main tower is the region's tallest building, at 441 feet.

A number of businesses in the Orange Avenue block between Jefferson and Washington would be affected by Kuhn's project, including such popular nightspots as Scruffy Murphy's Irish Pub at 9 W. Washington St., The Corner Bar at Washington and Orange, Thee Grotto at 110 N. Orange and Alpha Bar at 102 N. Orange.

The source familiar with the project said some of the businesses might be asked whether they want to be incorporated into the new development.

'We're still open'

Breda Gleeson, a partner with Donnie Burke in Scruffy Murphy's and The Corner Bar, said rumors about the redevelopment have been around for weeks.

"We've had customers expecting the bulldozers any day," Gleeson said. "We're still open and hope to be for some time."

She said Kuhn has promised to keep them posted on how much time they'll have.

"We always knew this could happen," she said. "We've been on a month-to-month lease for 12 years."

Ferris Corlone, 28, a banker having an after-work beer at Scruffy Murphy's on Wednesday evening, said he hates to see downtown's older buildings replaced.

"I hate to see the old-school ambience of Orlando go away," said Corlone, who said he goes to Scruffy Murphy's a couple of times a month. "There's not that much of it, and it's running out."

James Franzese, 33, also a banker, said he will especially miss Scruffy Murphy's. The watering spot is his favorite Irish bar in Orlando, he said.

Kuhn's brief description of the project includes a tower of unspecified height with about 400,000 square feet of condominium office space and 100,000 square feet of retail and restaurant space atop the parking garage.

The source said a nearby lot owned by businessman Jerry Chicone is under contract to another, unnamed developer who is considering a condominium tower that could complement Kuhn's project.

A decade of redevelopment

Kuhn, originally from Chicago, has been developing projects in Orlando's city center for the past decade. He started in 1994 by buying dilapidated buildings and renovating them.

For the Jaymont project, the city provided $22.5 million in incentives because the blighted area was considered critical to downtown's revitalization.

Mayor Buddy Dyer said recently, however, that the incentive bank is empty.

Lincoln Property Co., which has proposed building a 27-story office tower at Magnolia Avenue and Washington Street, would get no incentives for that project.

Lincoln wants to buy that 0.68-acre site -- now a city parking lot -- for $2.2 million. The city has given tentative approval to the deal.

Orlando's downtown is in the midst of a residential-development boom, and commercial development is beginning to heat up.

CNL Financial Group, for example, has started construction on a 12-story, 291,000-square-foot center on the north side of City Hall on South Orange Avenue.

At least two other towers are planned by other developers.

Chris Cobbs of the Sentinel staff contributed to this report. Jack Snyder can be reached at 407-420-5094 or jsnyder@orlandosentinel.com.
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/custom/growth/orl-downtowndevelopment,0,7261405.storygallery?coll=orl-home-headlines

any news on 55W. Cameron Kuhn is quite the mover and shaker.

Put the map, man.
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/media/graphic/2004-03/11814711.gif

this appears to be a running webpage of Sentinel articles on downtown Orlando, for all who are interested in keeping up (a nice service from the paper and shows good pride)
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/custom/growth/orl-downtowndevelopment,0,7261405.storygallery?coll=orl-home-headlines

For those interested, here is a link to the residnetial portion of the Plaza project. There is a great new rendering there. Check it out: Solaire at the Plaza (http://www.solaireattheplaza.com/)

cool link. Man, they changes the design of the residential tower yet again.

I think its the best so far (probably because FBBArch is not designing the residential portion, which is certinaly not beside the point!)

All I can say is Go Cameron!

Wow!
From the latest OBJ:
http://img98.exs.cx/img98/3093/1001933a8jl.jpg

WOW! :eek2: :)

This guy is awesome! That very well could break suntrust height, and probably 400'. This very well may be my favorite proposal yet. I also love the vue. I love projects that soar sleek and shiny into the sky while widening at the base to bring tons of Retail space. Seems like the skyline is shifting North. If 55west and the Plaza dont come close to 400' than this along with The Ivanhoe, Orlando Towers, and that new midtown projects may do just that.

The impact this will have on the skyline is probably going to be the greatest of all the building out of this current boom. The view from I-4 is going to be fantastic. It is also not far from the Vue, so these two towers standing together is going to make for a hell of an impression. I love it!

Kuhn's vision: Hip and trendy Benchmark
Design of 'real cool' project would include rooftop retail, bowling alley and more.
Christine Selvaggi Baumann
Staff Writer
ORLANDO -- Details of Cameron Kuhn's next mega-project slowing are emerging.
Link To Story (http://orlando.bizjournals.com/orlando/stories/2004/12/13/story4.html)

Newly named the Benchmark Building, the planned project apparently is an attempt by Kuhn to create a downtown destination similar to those in Tampa and Seattle. Kuhn, in fact, envisions the 600,000-square-foot commercial and office condo building planned for the corner of Washington and Orange avenues as an epicenter for the hip and trendy, downtown crowd.

A key component of the $100 million project -- which so far has no financial backing -- would be 200,000 square feet of retail space, half of which would be propped on top of an 11-story, 2,400-spot parking garage. Among the stores planned there: a drugstore, dessert eateries and restaurants.

"It's a hip-hop, real cool project," Kuhn says.

More intriguing, Kuhn wants to incorporate a bowling alley into the center, mimicking Seattle's downtown hotspot The Garage and Tampa's Splitsville, which has a bowling alley, billiard hall, dinner lounge and bar.

A Splitsville principal believes the Orlando project has a chance of success.

"I think it would work, but it needs to be more than a nightclub," says Splitsville co-owner Mark Gibson. "He needs to hit on all cylinders to make the margins attractive."

Gibson's company, Orlando-based Millennium Management Group, also owns Player's Grill on International Drive and Ybor's Martini Bar in Church Street. Gibson, who leases office space from Kuhn, says the two have talked briefly about the idea, and Millennium might be interested in heading the entertainment component.

Still, the project has its challenges: Kuhn needs to close on the defunct Have a Nice Day Cafe property, and he has a meeting next week on that transaction.

People familiar with the deal say it is worth an estimated $4.5 million to Mark Nejame, the cafe property owner and an attorney. Nejame would not comment other than to say he's getting "top dollar" for the land and will have an unspecified percentage of ownership in Benchmark.

Kuhn, meanwhile, also must negotiate other land deals. The future of a municipal parking lot within the project area, for example, still is undetermined, as is the status of several well-known watering holes in that area.

Says the developer, "This can change 100 times over."



© 2004 American City Business Journals Inc.

that's a great rendering/model. based on the scale of the cars, it looks like it will be 400 feet- roughly the height of BOA. I could be wrong, but to me it doesn't look as tall as the suntrust.

Dynatech Center is officially approved, with Lincoln Property as the developer. Set to break ground in Spring. Yay! byebye parking garage.

good news. City's tallest:
1. Suntrust
2. OC Cthse.
3. BOA
4. *Vue
5. *55W
6. *Dynatech
7. *Ivanhoe
8. *Plaza Solaire
9. *Orlando Towers Condos
10. *Inverlad

and not in that order per se

and not in that order per se

Correct, VUE is taller than the courthouse and BOA. Don't know the height of Dynatech.

^ I didn't realize that...good thing, that will help with the perspective from I-4.

Yes, VUE will be 426 ft. pending FAA approval.

Twin 37-story towers going up
High-rises planned in Orlando city core

By Jack Snyder | Sentinel Staff Writer
Posted December 16, 2004

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After more than two years of planning, a developer is moving forward with twin 37-story towers at the corner of North Orange Avenue and Marks Street in downtown Orlando.

The two towers each will have 244 rental apartments, said Mike Mulhall, Florida operations director for GDC Properties Inc., the developer.

The project also includes a 950-space parking garage and about 14,000 square feet of retail space on the ground floor.

Mulhall said the towers will have penthouses with terraces offering views of the city.

Construction on the $80 million project should start by mid-2005 with completion likely in 2007.

The developer said the towers will rival the height of the Orange County Courthouse, but will be shorter than SunTrust Center, the region's tallest building at 441 feet.

Mulhall is still waiting for the Federal Aviation Administration to sign off on the plans.

The company tinkered with several designs -- none involving towers of this height -- before settling on the current plan.

Mulhall said the development will be called The Ivanhoe and will anchor the north end of the city core. Though leasing is a long way off, Mulhall said most of the apartments will fall in the range of $700 to $1,500 a month.

He backed off a plan to build condominiums after looking at a spate of rental conversions. Mulhall thinks there is now a shortage of rental options.

Previously, the Hawthorne, N.Y.-based developer considered participating in the redevelopment of the Jaymont block at Church Street and South Orange Avenue with a 30-story residential tower. That block -- now under construction -- is being redeveloped with condo offices, retail space, a residentialcondominium tower and a 12-screen theater.

GDC bought the land for The Ivanhoe -- 3.5 acres on the east side of Orange Avenue with Marks Street on the north and Park Lake Street on the south -- early this year for $2.6 million. The developer had a purchase option on the property for more than year prior to that.

The company has sold a little more than an acre at Orange and Park Lake to Ustler II Inc. for $1.3 million. That company plans 60,000 square feet of condo office space, 17,500 square feet of retail space and a 350-space parking garage.

In 2001, GDC developed the 209-unit Mirasol at Celebration luxury apartments in Celebration in Osceola County. Mulhall said that development has been hugely successful.

"We've had a lot of people want to buy it for [converting to] condos, but we're going to keep it," he said.

Jack Snyder can be reached at 407-420-5094 or jsnyder@orlandosentinel.com.
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/business/orl-biztowers16121604dec16,1,1397012.story

Ivanhoe: twin 37 story towers? Does that include the shorter, neighboring Inverlad? Or, is this a refined project design?

Luckily, unlike Tampa, Orlando has a good downtown website. Unfortuantely, all teh new developments are in pdf format. This like should work for the Ivanhoe - nice enough project.

http://www.downtownorlando.com/ddb/DowntownOrlando/(pt1xiw452frogf55ylxc35y1)/pdf/The%20Ivanhoe.pdf (http://)

ok, you have to copy and paste it, but it works.

Ivanhoe & Inverland are 2 seperate projects.
This is simply Ivanhoe, a twin 37 story design. They will be the same height. Inverland is a seperate, shorter project.

btw I copy-pasted the rendering of Ivanhoe right here
check out that parking garage & all that ground floor retail:

http://mywebpage.netscape.com/LocustReign01/ivanhoe.JPG

Ivanhoe & Inverland are 2 seperate projects.
This is simply Ivanhoe, a twin 37 story design. They will be the same height. Inverland is a seperate, shorter project.

Not longer true. Ivanhoe and Inverland began as separate projects on the same site. The Ivanhoe was to be the taller building oriented towards the south and the Inverland was to be the shorter tower oriented towards the north. After the recent residential project proposal boom, a redesign of the Inverland tower grew to become a mirror image of the Ivanhoe. So now the twin 37-story Ivanhoe is comprised of the original Ivanhoe and the redesigned Inverland. As far as I know, the Inverland no longer exists.

I understand why they are going to be this way, but hose are some damn narrow buildings.

Narrow they are, but good for Orlando. It will make them appear taller.

Not longer true. Ivanhoe and Inverland began as separate projects on the same site. The Ivanhoe was to be the taller building oriented towards the south and the Inverland was to be the shorter tower oriented towards the north. After the recent residential project proposal boom, a redesign of the Inverland tower grew to become a mirror image of the Ivanhoe. So now the twin 37-story Ivanhoe is comprised of the original Ivanhoe and the redesigned Inverland. As far as I know, the Inverland no longer exists.

So who's on first again ? :wink2:

Yeah, that's what I figured when I went to the downtown website last nite. Fine by me. The website said Orlando Towers is going to be a block east of the Radisson off Orange. You guys know which parcel?

Also, lets hear it for Rosen's Shingle Creek breaking ground.

I wish they would start the Peabody Tower 2 already.

according to urbanplanet, Central Park appartments is "for sure" coming to orlando, although the location is still confidential. It's being developed by fbb, easily their best design yet. Can't wait for this one to go public & get a definitive ground-breaking.
Here's the rendering

http://img58.exs.cx/img58/7440/centralpark6tb.jpg

That is one gorgeous looking tower. I think FBBarch designs are improving.

It looks to be approximately 40+- floors as well. Amazing.

That is a pretty nice tower. Imo, one of the best, if not the best, out of the new group going up.

what a stupendous tower!!:):)

holy dam. thats a pretty tower. very chicago-manhattan looking

any news on the Centerpointe condos going up next to the Majestic in Altamonte?

I think they are just on the pilings or just getting out of the ground

I noticed that they are well into the construction of Altamonte Towne Center, and also the Seasons 52 and other restaurant also at Milennia Mall.

speaking of majestic, does anyone have any updated progress photos they could share?
Last time I was in town about a year ago it was still a "shell", which it remained for over a year. I heard they were finally finishing it off recently... how is it coming along?

CFB: REAL ESTATE
Condominium boom sparks fears of an office-space glut


Posted December 20, 2004

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The surge in condo office development in downtown Orlando could bode ill for the leasing market, some experts believe. Condo office space is sold and frequently occupied by a user. But investors also buy condo office space and lease it.

No one is sure how much of the condo space will end up in the leasing pool, but worst case scenarios can be scary, said Dave Chapin, vice president of Grubb & Ellis/Commercial Florida in Orlando.

"We have scenarios where the downtown vacancy rate could hit 25 percent in two years," he said.

Besides the condo office space at Premiere Trade Plaza -- the redevelopment of the Jaymont block -- condos are planned in the block at Orange Avenue and Washington and Jefferson streets. And the Palm Beach Land Trust, which has the Pizzuti block at Orange and Livingston Street under purchase option, also might develop condo offices

There's no shortage of office space downtown. New projects include CNL Center II, under construction by City Hall, and Lincoln Property Co. plans a tower at Magnolia Avenue and Washington Street.

Retail's return

Developer Cameron Kuhn has bought the former J.C. Penney building at Orange Avenue and Jefferson Street for $11.75 million as part of the assemblage for his next project. The store left in 1985. The departure was a blow to the city, which had been struggling for years to revitalize downtown after it was decimated by the growth of suburban malls.

Talk to downtown experts and they'll tell you strong retail is still a huge need for the city center, especially as the influx of residents builds. The $1 million grocery store incentive from the city for a project on East Central Boulevard shows how anxious Orlando is to beef up downtown retail. That project features a condo tower with the grocery, other retail and office space.

New brokerage

Emerson International, a British real estate and investment company with a long presence in Central Florida, has started Emerson Real Estate Services, a residential and commercial brokerage. Kathleen Beaulieu, with Emerson International since 1996, has been appointed vice president and managing broker.

One of the brokerage's first listings is Emerson Plaza, a 12-story condominium Emerson International plans to build early next year in its CenterPointe On The Park mixed-use development in Altamonte Springs. Other Emerson International developments include Eagle Creek, a 1,240-acre, 3,000-unit in southeast Orlando, and Emerson Pointe, a 70-acre luxury home development in the Bay Hill area of southwest Orange County.

Other properties include three office buildings. They are: Major Center Plaza, Orlando; Louisiana Office Park, Winter Park, and Sanlando Center, Longwood. The company also owns Gina's Lakeside Grill at the Centerpointe On The Park development in Altamonte Springs.

Construction . . .

Pertree Constructors, Orlando and Jacksonville, got the contract to build a 92,000-square-foot office/warehouse condo in southwest Orlando for Abdo & Burts Inc. The $3.5 million project is to be completed in April. . . .

R.C. Stevens Construction Co., Orlando, is completing the first phase of the 60,000-square-foot Citrus Tower Professional Center in Clermont. . . .

Royal Palm Homes said it plans to develop 189 condominiums near downtown Leesburg in Lake County next year. The project is at Dixie Avenue and Lake Street. . . .

Nicholson Homes, Altamonte Springs, plans to expand into Volusia County next year. The company recently acquired 178 lots at Pell Terrace near Osteen. The company expects to sell about 450 houses this year. . . .

Tilt-Con Corp., Altamonte Springs, won the contract for the Rick Case car dealership in Davie in South Florida. . . .

Terry's Electric, Kissimmee, is working on a $2.6 million contract for Westgate Town Center in Kissimmee. The company also recently completed a $250,000 contract at Holy Redeemer Church, and $950,000 in work for the Osceola County Sheriff's Department, both in Kissimmee.

Expansion

LMG, a company involved in support work for conventions and meetings, bought 8 acres on Investors Row in south Orlando for $1.41 million as part of an expansion.

Leasing

Lenders First Choice, a California-based title company, has rented 24,530 square feet of office space at 260 Wekiva Springs Road in Longwood. NAI Realvest Partners founder and president George Livingston, Tom Kelley and Christie Alexander represented the tenant in the deal. . . .

Procraft of Central Florida leased 5,480 square feet for three years at Landmark Commerce in the 33rd Street area in south Orlando. David Murphy of CB Richard Ellis and Lou Payas of USAA Realty were the brokers. . . .

Creative Stone Solutions took 2,900 square feet of office/warehouse space at 1719 South Division St. in Orlando. Michael Heidrich of NAI Realvest Partners represented the landlord, Richard Rogers Trust of Orlando.

On location

Signature GMAC real estate is searching for Central Florida locations for Golden Krust Caribbean Baker & Grill restaurants. The company has three locations in the state, all in South Florida, but plans to open an outlet at 5510 W. Colonial Drive in Orlando. The New York-based chain currently has 60 stores across the country and expects to expand that to 250 locations within five years.

Kudos

The Alachua County Courthouse, a building designed by Orlando-based DLR Group, was selected by Southeast Construction magazine as the Southeast's best public building. DLR Group, an architecture, engineering, planning and interior design company, has had offices in Orlando since 1998.

Sales

Vance Realty Group posted more than $100 million in sales in the first 10 months of the year.

Jack Snyder can be reached at 407-420-5094 or jsnyder@orlandosentinel.com.

Downtown Getting More Apartments, Retail and Office Space
By Alex Finkelstein
Last updated: December 21, 2004 01:28pm

ORLANDO-With more than a million sf of new office, retail, apartment and condominium space already either started or planned in and around the central business district, Downtown is bracing for even more new product.

After two years of trying to gauge the market, GDC Properties Inc. of Hawthorne, NY has set a mid-2005 groundbreaking date for the Ivanhoe, an $80-million, 244-unit apartment structure with 14,000 sf of retail on a 2.5-acre pad at Marks Street and North Orange Avenue, a destination some refer to as Uptown. Projected monthly apartment rents are in the $700 to $1,500 range, according to the developer.

In the same construction timeframe, Lincoln Property Co. and locally based Dynatech Corp. plan to start Dynatech Centre, an estimated $50-million project that will comprise 150,000 sf of office, 50,000-sf of ground-floor retail and 150 apartments. Dynatech, a Downtown-based development, management and technology company, is expected to occupy the entire building with its 325 employees when it moves in on Jan. 1, 2007.

Lincoln set its groundbreaking date after closing a $2.2-million deal with the city to buy an estimated 30,000-sf parking garage site at Magnolia Avenue and Washington Street. Lincoln paid the city an estimated premium of $73.33 per sf for the corner property, brokers in a position to know tell GlobeSt.com.

At 37 stories and an estimated 400 feet high, the Ivanhoe would be the tallest building in Orlando based on number of stories and the second tallest structure based on building height. The 35-story SunTrust Center at 200 S. Orange Ave. is slightly more than 441 feet high. But at 37 stories, the GDC project may still face building height challenges by the Federal Aviation Administration.

In 1997, the FAA rejected a 30-story office and retail structure planned by Columbus, OH-based Pizzuti Development Co. at the corner of North Orange Avenue and Livingston Street, directly across from the Orange County Courthouse plaza.

Pizzuti's 6.5-acre tract has remained vacant since 1995 when developer Ronald A. Pizzuti purchased a 10.8-acre tract for $14.2 million, or $1.31 million per acre ($30.19 per sf), from William M. duPont, a Louisville, KY-based horse breeder and former majority owner of the Orlando Magic basketball team.

Pizzuti sold off 4.3 acres of his 10.8-acre tract to the City of Orlando which is constructing a $30-million bus terminal that is nearing completion on Amelia Street behind the Pizzuti tract.
http://www.globest.com/news/182_184/orlando/129701-1.html

FAA- the Pizzutti deal fell thru b/c that building was supposed to be over 500 feet tall; and it had that hollow cube design at the top; word was that city hall influenced the decision to reject the proposal.

MAJESTIC- there are about 5 floors of curtain wall hung on the south wall of the building, and a few panels installed on the west wall just last week. It's been topped off for a year.

no photos, though.

so the city center is still gonna be constructed? On this website it says that the building is still proposed- http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/ci/bu/sk/li/?id=101340&bt=2&ht=2&sro=1

No the Orlando City Center is totaly off the books. The land has been sold and the plans scrapped.

in fact, that soccer stadium proposal is for that same site.

Im not so sure that Stadion is for that site...

By Joe Newman | Sentinel Staff Writer
Posted December 29, 2004


There was a time, not too long ago, when local leaders knew exactly what they wanted for Central Florida.

They wanted to be big, with ribbons of asphalt curling off in all directions, sprawling neighborhoods and shopping malls on the edge of suburbia. Frankly they wanted to be a lot like Atlanta.

Now, metro Orlando's peach-tree envy is a thing of the past, said Linda Chapin, a former Orange County chairman.

"We used to long for it, and now we're horrified at the prospect," Chapin said.

A repentant Orlando still has time to change its destiny. For Central Florida leaders, now is the time to start shaping the region's future.

A Brookings Institution report released this month projects that only half of the homes and buildings needed to accommodate growth throughout the country during the next 25 years exist today.

That means fast-growing cities, such as Orlando, will need to double the number of homes and commercial buildings they have by 2030, according to the study by a Virginia Tech professor.

The study projects Orlando will need 649,000 new homes in the next 25 years, a 94 percent increase. That growth rate ranks Orlando behind only West Palm Beach, Phoenix, Austin, Texas, and Las Vegas.

With so many new homes on the horizon, metro Orlando can do a lot to rebuild itself in a way that improves the area's quality of life.

Most urban planners today say sprawl -- where neighborhoods are farther from jobs -- costs more to serve and can lead to an array of social problems.

Those problems include everything from higher obesity rates and pedestrian fatalities to more-intangible issues, such as a lack of "community."

Orange County Commissioner Teresa Jacobs compares Central Florida to a person nearing middle age.

"I've likened it to the aging process: There's a time when we think we're never going to grow old," Jacobs said. But now the region is realizing that it needs to improve its transportation system and start planning better for its golden years, she said.

"We're certainly not too late, but we're also not a bit too early," said Jacobs, who chairs the Smart Growth Alliance, a group that looks at regional solutions to growth and transportation planning.

Area leaders may get a glimpse of what Central Florida's future looks like through the work of a group of researchers from the University of Pennsylvania. Next year, the researchers will develop several models showing how metro Orlando will look if it follows current growth trends.

They'll also provide alternative futures based on changes that can be made in public transportation, conservation and more-compact development patterns.

The study is being co-sponsored by the University of Central Florida's Metropolitian Center for Regional Studies, which Chapin directs, and the Smart Growth Alliance.

Chapin's not the only one spreading the word about better living through better planning.

Tim Jackson, a partner in an Orlando urban-design firm, is helping put on a series of community forums aimed at coming up with ideas of what the region should aspire to.

"What is Orange County going to be like in 50 years?" Jackson said. "It's a matter of having a common understanding of what are the issues and what are the answers."

The first forum in November looked at "civic leadership" and what has made other regions successful. The next forum on Jan. 28 at Leu Gardens in Orlando will tackle transportation issues.

It was the failure of the Mobility 20/20 initiative -- the county's push in 2003 to finance road improvements through a sales-tax increase -- that helped spur the series of community forums.

Former Orange Commissioner Lou Treadway, one of the chief critics of the tax, and Rick Walsh, a Darden Restaurants executive who had backed the referendum, met after the election and talked about reaching a community consensus on how best to tackle Orange County's growth-related problems.

The idea of the community forums sprung from a lunch conversation at Olive Garden, Treadway said. In the end, the organizers want to have a list of ideas and proposals to submit to the Orange County Commission.

When Treadway served on the commission in the '80s, Orange's growth was intoxicating. The area saw the creation of Epcot Center, the Universal theme park and the expansion of the University of Central Florida research park.

"From the courthouse to the White House, the whole thing was to create jobs," Treadway said. "You created the jobs with growth."

Treadway lived in Atlanta 30 years ago, when the city's beltway was built through what was then a rural area. Today, Atlanta's perimeter is groaning under the weight of suburban sprawl.

"Back then, bigger was better," said a now contrite Treadway. "But people now see that bigger is not necessarily better -- it's quality that matters.

"I would hope it's not the vision of our people to become another Atlanta or another L.A."

Joe Newman can be reachedat jnewman@orlandosentinel.comor 407-420-6140

Colonial Properties owns the city center land. Thats pretty much all I've heard.

if you go to the farmer baker barrios website, they have a rendering of the soccer stadium in 3D and it takes up the block between the OC Cthse (Orange) and the train tracks

I think that would actually be a nice development there, not a lot of height, which would work great on the lot, but the project meets the streetwall nicely and it seems to incorporate retail/restuarant as well.

Also, was able to get around downtown today and so much is going on! CNL is near topping out, Plaza is about to start the second floor, Jackson is well underway, and Sanctuary is just monolithic. All and all, it seems like Orlando is really picking up the pace and tons of people are taking to the streets. I like what I'm seeing.

Also, over where I live, site demolition has completed at the Wellesley in College Park and lots of dirt is at the site.

Another Winter Park luxury condo:


The Langford (www.thelangford.com)

Thanks for the update skydive! Orlando Central Business, and Eola is really becoming a fast paced area.
Now we just need to kick Uptown into action with those twin 37 story buildings and we will be all set. :)

* * *nevermind * * *

By Joe Newman | Sentinel Staff Writer
Posted December 29, 2004

There was a time, not too long ago, when local leaders knew exactly what they wanted for Central Florida.

They wanted to be big, with ribbons of asphalt curling off in all directions, sprawling neighborhoods and shopping malls on the edge of suburbia. Frankly they wanted to be a lot like Atlanta.

Now, metro Orlando's peach-tree envy is a thing of the past, said Linda Chapin, a former Orange County chairman.

"We used to long for it, and now we're horrified at the prospect," Chapin said.

A repentant Orlando still has time to change its destiny. For Central Florida leaders, now is the time to start shaping the region's future.


This is a very strange comment. I would never have thought that Orlando had ever wanted to be like Atlanta. Don't get me wrong, I love Atlanta and it's doing some fantastic things, but I never thought that Orlando, which is such a unique city would want to be like Atlanta. Very interesting!!

I think that city leaders feared that O-town would become like Atlanta b/c of the urban sprawl issue and the rate of growth. I live in Orlando and used to live in Atlanta. Apples and Oranges. Rush hour traffic on I-4 becomes a local phenomenon and civic leaders and residents start making the comparisons. THis has been going on since 1992 when I first heard the comparisons being made from urban planning students at UF. I thought they were crazy: 'how can a 3-lane I-4 (only up to 434) have any relevant similarity to a 5 and 6-lane I-75/85'?

But now, its a different story. I-4 is a major roadway for trucking and travel and a multi-county effort from Tampa to Daytona is underway to widen it. Central Florida is developing much differently than Atlanta. Metro Orlando including West Volusia and Lake is around 2 million people. Sanford to Daytona is a 25 minute ride. OIA to Port Canaveral is less than 30 minutes. Toll 429 to Clermont is a 10 minute drive. Disney Celebration to Central Polk is a 15 to 20 minute drive. Disney to Hillsborough is maybe a 30 minute drive.

Technically, Central Florida from Tampa to Daytona with a break in development b/c of the conservatory area 9 miles long between DeLand and US-92 is a continuous metro area of about 5.5 million people.

In fact, Sarasota to Bradenton to Pinnellas County to Tampa to Brandon to Haines City to Lakeland/Polk and its sister cities on I-4 to ChampionsGate to Celebration to Kissimmee to LBV to Orlando to Winter Park to Altamonte to Longwood to Lake Mary to Sanford to DeBary to Orange City to Deltona to DeLand, and then 9 miles to US 92, in Daytona, conceivably, is one extended metropolitan area of over 6 million.

Its a different growth pattern which has not been centrally oriented. But now there is a push back to the center of town.

Yeah, I've seen the growth along the I-4 corridor and north and south of the Tampa Bay area and around Orlando. It is a lot!

I don't fear Orlando will become like Atlanta because I think the downtown core is dense enough in its current condition to become a great urban center. The burbs, well thats a different story.

yeah, but Atlanta already has a great urban center, with all the hotels, CNN center, Marriott Marquis, Hawks arena, GaTech, restaurants, Westin, etc. Orlando has a good base for a city its size. they just need to come thru with all these projects and get more retail.

They'll (Atlanta & Orlando) never be alike or similar, mainly because there are no large or mid-sized cities within nearly 100 miles of Atlanta's city center. The pattern of development is totally different. Tampa, St. Petersburg, Lakeland, Daytona & Melbourne are all within 100 miles of Orlando and all have their own distinct cores that act as business centers on some type of level.

^^^Yeah. Atlanta is the central city for a population base and geographical area equal (or slightly larger) to that of the I-4 corridor. Whereas, as has been said, the I-4 corridor has two large metro areas with their own centers, unique identities, different job bases, etc. Noone who just got a job in Orlando is going to look for an apartment in east Hillsborough County, or even Lakeland. Those are totally different places.

Atlanta and Orlando are similar in that they are both landlocked cities with not many geographic constraints to outward development. However, with Tampa Bay right there and other smaller places, like Lakeland, Titusville and Daytona Beach, Orlando could never experience the type of suburban expansion on the scale Atlanta has. Still, the Orlando could experience similar problems, like its beltway becoming a destination facility like I-285.

Who said someone would get an apt. in E. Hillsborough and work in Orlando? All I said was that Orlando's growth and the growth of industry in central florida has gravitated along the I-4 corridor, which, in essence, is a continuous populated area from Daytona to Pinnellas County.

Atlanta's big, but its not that big. People commute just as far to Orlando as they do in Atlanta; People commute from Clermont, Leesburg, DeLand, Poinciana, St. Cloud, Christmas, Geneva, Titusville, Haines City, and even Daytona. Get a Rand McNally map of Georgia and Florida and overlay the two areas- you'll see that Orlando metro's geographic sprawl is on par with Atlanta's- maybe even greater. Daytona metro and Cape Canaveral are closer to Orlando than Macon, Columbus, and Athens are to Atlanta- way closer. And people commute from those places for work on a daily basis.

Orange, Seminole, Osceola, and West Volusia together number 1.8 Million. Add in Lake County, and the population is 2,050,000 (Lake is continuous metro up US 441 and west on SR 50). Add in the east coastal areas as "satellite cities", ie, for the SMSA, and the population is over 2.7 million, not including parts of Polk County near Haines City near US 27 & I-4.

Tampa Bay (Hillsborough, Pinnellas, Manatee, Sarasota) is 2.62 million people. Polk is 510,000. The I-4 "corridor" including Brevard is over 5.8 million people. It is way more expansive and has way more population than metro Atlanta.

Atlanta's MSA is only 4.46 million- BUT, that includes 20 Counties. And the distances of the towns in these counties from Atlanta is the same as the distances between Orlando and E. Volusia/Brevard, and Orlando and Haines City/Clermont/Leesburg;

Miami-Dade/Broward/Palm Bch. is over 5.3 million.

The point is that Orlando Metro has the capability of being as populated as Metro Atlanta, as does Tampa Bay, based on the urban infill of the suburbs and satellite cities of both metro areas, and metro areas in between them. Atlanta and Orlando have grown differently because of circumstance and geography.

And, Orlando HAS experienced the type of suburban expansion that Atlanta has.

Perhaps I should revise that statement to say that Orlando has not, and probably will not experience suburban expansion on the same scale as what has happenned in Atlanta. You can't just overlay the maps. Certainly, people commute to Orlando from places like Daytona Beach and Titusville, the same way that people commute to Tampa Bay (officially Hillsborough, Pinellas, Pasco and Hernando; Manatee and Sarasota are a separate MSA) from Bradenton and Sarasota. However all of those cities are the urban centers of their own respective metro areas. Those 20+ counties in the Atlanta metro area are much more dependent on Atlanta than Volusia, Brevard and Polk are dependent on Orlando. Most of the development in Volusia, Brevard and Polk would be there without Orlando, unlike the development in those counties surrounding Atlanta. That's the difference between Orlando and Atlanta.

So, I agree that Orlando could experience issues similar to Atlanta, as I could see the beltway having congestion similar to I-285. However similar, though, it won't be the same.

"Perhaps I should revise that statement to say that Orlando has not, and probably will not experience suburban expansion on the same scale as what has happenned in Atlanta."

-Check the statistics. Orlando metro is growing fast- it won't catch Atlanta, that's crazy. But it will get as big one day. Its inevitable. Its a fact.

-You CAN just overlay the maps. Goto Walmart and get a Rand McNally book map of Florida and get the Florida and Georgia pages and do it. Only then will you see the similarity of scale between the two metro areas.

-Noone said anything about the development of Atlanta and Orlando being the same. The facts are that the I-4 corridor has a greater population than metro Atlanta. Don't get technical with me about Tampa bay's MSA... Sarasota/Bradenton should be part of the MSA in the same way that Oakland is to SF. In fact, someone posted recently that one study didn't have Palm Beach County in the Miami MSA, which is ridiculous.

-West Volusia HAS developed solely because of Orlando, not Daytona. West Volusia is 1/2 of the county's population and only an 8 minute drive to I-95 and East Volusia's population base.

-Marietta would still have existed without Atlanta. In fact, a lot of these small towns outside of Atlanta are traditional towns that have existed for a hundred years, just like in Central Florida, so don't tell me that Orlando and Atlanta have developed differently. The exceptions are places like Fayetteville and Dunwoody and the like. Atlanta is just bigger.

-"Urban centers of their own..." Define urban center. Not every major job emanates from a downtown. Not everyone in Atlanta metro commutes to downtown. They go to Perimeter Center, Buckhead, Marrietta, Peachtree Industrial, etc.

-In Orlando, people commute to downtown, Heathrow/Lake Mary/Northpoint/Colonial Town Park, Central Fla. Res. Park/UCF, Metrowest, Celebration Place, South Park, Millennia, Maitland Center, Lee Vista Center, and that doesn't include the regional mall/shopping centers that employ thousands (just like in Atlanta).

-Some of those employment centers are on the outskirts of town, which increases the radius of mileage that people travel to commute to work, which extends the metro area out even further.

To say that Orlando CAN'T develop in the same way that Atlanta has is WRONG. Orlando is already developing in the same manner.

Brevard has NASA. Daytona has it's own tourism (don't really know what else goes on there) independent of Orlando. If you look at the stats, you'd see that these places are their own metro areas, unlike cities like Marietta, Decatur, etc. This means that these places stand on their own. Yeah, places like Marietta and Decatur would've existed without Atlanta, but what industry do they have that they could stand alone? They would all still be little (insignificant) towns if it weren't for Atlanta. I doubt that Titusville or Daytona would be much different without Orlando. What you've described is the bleeding or overlapping of metro areas along I-4 that most of us would say is bound to become even more evident. Because they're all so close together, as each metro sprawls individually, there's bound to be some "blending".

Like I said, and will continue to say, Orlando could develop in a way similar to Atlanta. However, the context surrounding Orlando is of a whole different dynamic than Atlanta. That's why it won't be the same -- similar, but not the same.

At any rate, it's pointless to continue this debate. The main point is that the "return to the city" movement and re-emphasis on compact development, TND, TOD, etc. came at a good time in Orlando's evolution -- before things got completely out of control.

"At any rate, it's pointless to continue this debate."

--There's no debate; you disseminated false information and I corrected you regarding population figures, regardless if you acknowledged it.

"Like I said, and will continue to say, Orlando could develop in a way similar to Atlanta. However, the context surrounding Orlando is of a whole different dynamic than Atlanta. That's why it won't be the same -- similar, but not the same."

>>Previous quote<< "Perhaps I should revise that statement to say that Orlando has not, and probably will not experience suburban expansion on the same scale as what has happenned in Atlanta."

--You are very inconsistent, but thankyou for restating the obvious nevertheless. You know why equitable remedies are enforced when dealing with real estate? Because real estate is UNIQUE. No two pieces of property are the same. The same holds true for two different metropolitan areas. Noone ever said it would be the same.
But you can't just sit there and ignore the growth rate statistics and tell people on this forum that Orlando can't grow at the same scale that Atlanta has. Have you ever even been to Atlanta and the surrounding suburbs to see the similarities in growth with Central Florida? I'd venture to say not.

"What you've described is the bleeding or overlapping of metro areas along I-4 that most of us would say is bound to become even more evident. Because they're all so close together, as each metro sprawls individually, there's bound to be some "blending".

--I made a basic statement that the I-4 corridor has become a continously populated corridor from Tampa to Daytona with consistently heavy traffic. That's why they're widening it in Polk, Osceola, Orange, Seminole, and Volusia counties. They already widened it in unincorporated Hillsborough and are widening it in Tampa's city limits. It's a fact, not a subject for debate.

"Brevard has NASA. Daytona has it's own tourism (don't really know what else goes on there) independent of Orlando. If you look at the stats, you'd see that these places are their own metro areas, unlike cities like Marietta, Decatur, etc. This means that these places stand on their own. Yeah, places like Marietta and Decatur would've existed without Atlanta, but what industry do they have that they could stand alone? They would all still be little (insignificant) towns if it weren't for Atlanta."

--Have you ever even been to Atlanta? Ever been to Daytona? To Titusville? To Marrietta? Lawrenceville? Kennesaw? Decatur? Downtown Atlanta? I have. I lived in Atlanta for a year and a half. Marrietta has Dobbins AFB. Its a military town. Doraville has the Ford or GM Plant. So does Hartsfield. Ralston has a plant on I-20 west of town. Peachtree Industrial is northeast of the Perimeter. Marrietta has a huge office park complex at the Galleria. So does Perimeter Center at Sandy Springs/ Dunwoody/ Roswell. None of these employment centers are in the city limits of Atlanta, and each of these areas STAND ON THEIR OWN independent of the City of Atlanta.

--Your problem is that you do not understand the dynamics of urban development. You are also ignorant regarding this specific subject matter (Atlanta & Orlando). You make blanket statements based on numbers from a stat book without having even been to those places to understand how they work and how they have developed. You do not understand the definition of "suburb" or "satellite city." You think that just because a small town already exists at a certain distance from the larger city, that it cannot become part of that city's metro area if that smaller city can "stand alone" economically from the larger one. You need to do some research on L.A. Metro, San Francisco Metro, NYC, Baltimore/Washington, and Miami/Ft.L/WPB. You also need to re-read the previous paragraph above on those regional employment centers around Atlanta, and the previous posting on the regional employment centers around Orlando.

--Companies open offices and warehouses in urban areas that meet many criteria, including housing and transportation access. These companies have been opening up shop in and around Orlando for the same reasons they have been opening up shop around Atlanta, namely b/c both metros are transportation hubs. Lowes just opened up its Florida distribution center SW of Kissimmee (its part of Orlando metro, and is technically further away from downtown Orlando than Alpharetta is from downtown Atlanta. The point: Orlando IS growing and developing in a similarly scaled fashion as has Atlanta over the previous few decades; Atlanta has just been doing it longer.

oh god here we go again. city fighting. Why don't you start a post in southeast atlanta against orlando???

I really don't even see the comparison. Orlando is a growing metro is a sea of metros. Florida is overall much more crowded than Georgia - anything in North Georgia is basically considered part of atlanta. There are a number of cities in cnetral Florida and they will all grow into a huge blob with artificially defined lines (like county lines). Orlando will obviously grow, but, because there are a number of nodes around it (as opposed to Atlanta) some of the growth will be more focused to other nodal cities, whereas Atlanta is the only city of focus - so what?

Atlanta is nice, but I like Florida - from Naples to Daytona and on to Jax and Miami is is getting to be one big blob, just the way I like it. I see no reason to even try to compare them. They are totally different.

Check out the model for The Wellesley condo project:
Went by the site a few days ago and dirt is moving..
http://www.thewellesley.com/images/ScaleModelLook.jpg

Hey, enough with the ATL sidetrack. This is a development news thread folks.

^^^I apologize, but I have to say this. Then, I'm done with it...

jzquince69, please don't call me ignorant of the dynamics of planning. I'm currently working on my Master's degree in urban planning. I think I know a thing or two. I've been to Atlanta plenty of times. I've seen all of those suburban areas. I give you the AFB in Marrietta. Other than that, there would be nothing else there if it weren't a suburb of Atlanta. The same with all those other places. Those office parks and such wouldn't be there without Atlanta. They're all suburban markets to Atlanta, unlike the centers in Brevard, Polk and Volusia. I'll say it again: those centers developed independently of Orlando. How come you don't recognize that? Conversely, those "suburban employment centers" in Kennesaw, Sandy Springs, etc. all came about because of Atlanta. Those Florida cities near Orlando are already urban centers in their own right with fairly developed suburbs of their own, unlike most of those areas around Atlanta, whose primary source of growth came from Atlanta's suburban expansion. (BTW, Atlanta's growth extends MUCH farther north past Alpharetta, to a distance farther than that of Orlanto to Kissimme, which is pretty much at the edge of what is considered the Orlando metro. But, I know you know that since you've lived in both places.)

Where I have I been inconsistent? I mentioned scale on my very first post.

Orlando could never experience the type of suburban expansion on the scale Atlanta has.

I just ammended the statement to exclude the word "type", because it is basically the same type of suburban development in the two metros.

Perhaps I should revise that statement to say that Orlando has not, and probably will not experience suburban expansion on the same scale as what has happenned in Atlanta.

However, I consistently contended that the scale of Orlando's suburban expansion won't be as large as that of Atlanta (read both quotes). Why do I believe this? Because the two cities have different surroundings. As so many others have said (but, you continue to argue specifically with me on this point) there are other centers close by that are developing their own suburbs. Eventually, they'll begin to overlap each other, but demographers and statisticians will continue to draw these "artificial boundaries" that Smiley described.

Basically, it's like this: several cities growing on their own, eventually blending into each other (Central Florida) is a totally different pattern of development than one city growing as to engulf all surrounding towns (Atlanta).

Why can't you recognize that difference? But, I'm the ignorant, uninformed one, right? Why can eveyone else see that Orlando and Atlanta are set in two very different contexts, but you can't? We're all ignorant, I guess. But, I digress.

It's not worth arguing, and this is not even the proper thread for such discussion. Let's get back to the developments, shall we? :)

I don't see any reason why Atlanta should even be mentioned, much less have a series of posts devoted to it, in the "Orlando Development News" thread. If you two insist on debating this Orlando vs. Atlanta subject, please take it to e-mail or start a new thread elsewhere.

Notice no mention of Ajax or a stadium...

__________________________________________________________________

Deal adds another big project downtown
Investors to develop former Pizzuti block

By Jack Snyder | Sentinel Staff Writer
Posted January 7, 2005


Starved for retail
Jan 7, 2005


The long-vacant downtown block at Orange Avenue and Livingston Street, across from the Orange County Courthouse in Orlando, is to be sold to investors next week for $17.12 million.

Planning for as much as 1.6 million square feet of development on the site is already under way, said David Barley, one of the deal's participants and president of Palm Beach Land Trust LLC.

The investors are from Palm Beach, elsewhere in South Florida, and New York. Barley would not identify them.

The buying entity will be called Downtown Plaza LLC.

Barley said his firm, Palm Beach Land Trust, has a contract to plan, develop and market the property.

Although everything is tentative at this point, the project would likely include office space, condominiums, parking, and restaurants and shops.

Barley said he plans to hire the Project For Public Places, a New York-based nonprofit urban-design consultant, to help with the planning.

"We want to do this right," he said. "We want to develop a place, not a project."

The 5.64 acres are just west of the county courthouse, on the west side of Orange Avenue. The property is bounded by Livingston Street on the south, Amelia Street on the north and the new Lynx bus terminal and headquarters on the west.

Barley said the investors are impressed with downtown Orlando's resurgence, including the University of Central Florida's new digital-media academy and the Florida A&M Law School.

"Every great downtown needs the presence of a university," Barley said.

The city center currently is undergoing an explosion of planned development, including the $140 million Premiere Trade Center on the previously distressed block at Orange Avenue and Church Street. Plans for that project include office and retail space, condominiums, and a 12-screen theater. It is under construction and is to be completed in 2006.

The Downtown Development Board estimates the value of current downtown construction and proposed projects at $1.3 billion.

The Palm Beach Land Trust is also developing about 123,000 square feet of condominium office space in Seminole County at Lake Mary Boulevard and Interstate 4. That project includes some of the same investors involved in the downtown Orlando purchase, Barley said.

The downtown site is being sold by Ron Pizzuti of Columbus, Ohio, who left the Orlando market in 2002 after more than 15 years of investing and developing in the area.

The property originally was part of a proposed complex called duPont Centre. Pizzuti bought it in 1995 for a proposed mixed-use project, spending millions on planning before deciding to sell the block.

The focal point of Pizzuti's project, which he called Orlando City Center, was to have been a distinctive, cloud-brushing tower topped by a large, open cube.

It was proposed to soar 493 feet above the city -- higher than downtown's current height leader, SunTrust Center, at 441 feet.

However, the Federal Aviation Administration refused to approve the height, citing concerns about takeoff and landing patterns for Orlando Executive Airport a few miles to the east.

Bicatmit, you are correct. BUT, one last clarification:
1. I ALREADY received my MAURP in 1993.
2. I LIVED in Atlanta and have traversed every highway and frequented every community I mentioned on numerous occasions.
3. I LIVE in Orlando and know the metro area like the back of my hand.

Now, Jahi98, If you can say that you've done those things, then don't be so adamant with your point of view on this. I understand what you are saying. Obviously bedroom communities will develop b/c of the proximity of the main city. BUT, using your logic, we shouldn't count Marrietta or Lawrenceville as part of the same metro area as Atlanta, b/c they both existed as their own cities before suburban development connected the two city centers, just like with Orlando and other satellite cities in Central Florida.

I know Alpharetta isn't the northern terminus of metro development; I used it as a point of reference.

Also, my main point was to clarify the erroneous population estimate you made in comparing the I-4 corridor to metro Atlanta. That's it. I just don't want people to further promote this misconception that Atlanta is SO much bigger and broader than this region in Florida- only because its not true. I respect your opinion, but my analysis is based on my experience living in Atlanta and living in Orlando, not what some textbook said on the subject. I'm a statistics cruncher, so when I hear someone disseminate false info, its my duty to respond. :)

Now, I'm excited to hear that the old Pizzuti lot in from of OC Cthse has been bought. Now, Jahi98, you should use your present connections in Urban Planning to find out HOW one could go about overturning an archaic FAA height restriction. I think I already posted once before the fact that neither runway at Orlando Executive Airport points downtown. One runway points towards ORMC and the other points around Lake Ivanhoe.
Pleasant day, gentlemen. :)

The exact direction of the runways is not the issue - it is the type of planes and where they need to go to get to the runways. Godd luck changing the FAA's rules.

I can't wait to see what comes of this. This site is prime & needs something BIG!
I don't think we need any more office space down there, but a nice mix of retail & residential would be great. I also hope whatever building goes up there will be large but won't block the view of the Courthouse on I-4... tho I'm sure that can easily be done.

Jzquince, it's all good. I understand what you're saying, now, about the population.

As for the FAA restrictions, the first place that comes to mind is San Diego. The main airport there is directly adjacent to its downtown, yet they can still build tall. I believe they recently further relaxed the height restrictions there.

San Diego has pretty strict height restrictions as well. The city of Orlando has no say in it, as sad as that is...its all the FAA. I don't see it changing, now and possibly ever.

San Diego's hope is that Lindbergh Field will eventually relocate.

As for Orlando, it's hard to envision Executive Airport relocating.

Look on the bright side: we could be San Jose !

San Diego is strict, but their height limits are still quite high -- higher than 500ft I believe. I would have to check that, though.

500 ft., with rumblings that taller structures may be allowed in the southern portion of the CBD in the future.

Some doubt project perks
Orlando leaders to vote on incentives for downtown development

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By Mark Schlueb | Sentinel Staff Writer
Posted January 8, 2005

In 1999, Orlando leaders began handing out millions in incentives to downtown developers, hoping that one day the city's core would be so hip that such enticements wouldn't be necessary.

Six years and $51 million later, city commissioners still struggle with that issue, even as more checks are cut. On Monday, they'll be asked to vote on a $3.7 million incentive package for a high-rise project near Lake Eola that includes a long-sought grocery store.

Since the last full-service grocery store moved out 25 years ago, four mayors have tried to land another. But at least two commissioners think the city needs to stop doling out so much cash to downtown developers -- and plan to vote against this one.

"I'm not opposed to all incentives, but I think there has to be a compelling reason," Commissioner Phil Diamond said Wednesday. "I don't think this is going to create any high-paying jobs, and I don't think it's going to diversify the economy."

Developer Kevin Lawler plans to build a 16-story tower featuring 314 condos, 12,100 square feet of office space, parking, and retail space.

But it's the grocery store that has the mayor's office interested. City staffers and the developer said they're not allowed to disclose the name of the grocery chain, but the fact that it's Publix is an open secret at City Hall.

At 29,000 square feet, the supermarket would be about one-third smaller than a standard Publix. But it would be a full-service grocery, something city leaders see as crucial to transforming downtown Orlando into a vibrant locale.

Mayor Buddy Dyer and the developer both said putting a grocery store on pricey downtown real estate would be impossible if the city doesn't chip in.

"Grocery stores aren't necessarily economically feasible in a downtown, urban location," said Dyer.

Since 1998, the city has given out more than $51 million to downtown development projects, ranging from $12.7 million for the Hughes Supply mixed-use project in Parramore to $40,000 for the now vacant Jungle Jim's restaurant on Church Street.

The money comes from the Community Redevelopment Agency, a special taxing district that funnels all property taxes above a certain level back into downtown projects instead of back into the city budget.

The complex package of incentives earmarked for the new project includes $1 million for the grocery; $350,000 in waived permitting, inspection and other fees; and $2 million to help pay for the underground parking garage that will serve the grocery, offices and other retail shops.

The developer has to pay back the $2 million, but the city also plans to refund a portion of the property taxes to pay that loan. All told, the incentives are worth $3.7 million.

The project will be built in the block bounded by Central Boulevard, Lake Avenue, Pine Street and Osceola Avenue. That puts it in Thornton Park, one of Orlando's trendiest neighborhoods.

That's one reason Diamond and Commissioner Vicki Vargo oppose the incentive. The city shouldn't have to dangle cash in front of developers who plan to build on some of Orlando's most sought-after real estate, they say.

But Lawler says the grocery chain's projections aren't as high as its executives would like, though they expect sales to increase as downtown grows.

The incentives make it feasible for the developer to offer prime space at prices supermarket chains will pay.

Nobody knows how long the city will be subsidizing downtown development. City officials point out that plenty of new projects downtown aren't getting a dime from City Hall.

Mark Schlueb can be reached at mschlueb@orlandosentinel.com or 407-420-5417.
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/orl-locincentives08010805jan08,1,7130832.story

I actually agree. Thornton Park does not need incentives and Publix certainly isn't hard up for cash.

I think they're trying to get the first "domino" to fall by handing out incentives- for the publix in this case. Buddy Dyer made a statement a while back describing a "critical mass" that he saw Orlando's downtown achieving with the advent of the Plaza and a couple other projects, that once reached, more projects would just automatically follow and keep rolling in for years to come. They must view this supermarket project as one of those key projects. ps, you're alright, Jahi98. :)

goto www.emersoninternational.com to see the planned development near the majextic in Altamonte. also, go to atlamonte's city web page to see a link to the town center development.

Love that pedestrian friendly design - nice sidewalk

http://www.centerpointeonthepark.com/images/bigart.jpg

Isn't it, though. Actually, that's part of the Centerpointe development. The Altamonte Towne Center is going to be like Winter Park Village- just bigger- between the lake and 436 next to the Embassy Suites.

SR 50 - Design for six-laning 9.4 miles from SR 436 to 1.7 miles east of the SR 408 (East/West Expressway) interchange is in progress (FM No. 2392032/3/4). An estimated $55 million in right of way acquisition is funded through FY 05/06. Construction along the 3.6 miles from SR 436 to SR 417 is planned in FY 06/07 at an estimated cost of $45 million (including a SR 50/SR 436 interchange); along the one mile from SR 417 to Dean Road in FY 08/09 at an estimated cost of $14.2 million; and along the 5.2 miles from Dean Road to east of Old Cheney Highway in FY 09/10 at an estimated cost of $30.4 million.


--- they're (this is from the fdot website) planning an interchange for 436 and SR 50. About freakin time they did something right on colonial drive.

Love that pedestrian friendly design - nice sidewalk

http://www.centerpointeonthepark.com/images/bigart.jpg

Well unfortunately given it's location there would be nowhere for those pedestrians to walk to other than their death in the middle of traffic.

Well, you can always hope that something gets retrofitted into the area and they decide to make it kind of urban.

City Hall approved the incentives for the Thornton Park condominiums which includes a "publix" as said on Channel 9. They said 3.2 million in tax breaks. Hopefully this thing will get on the fast track, its a prime locale.

http://web.mit.edu/bic/Public/Stuff/Thornton%20Park.JPG

when this gets done and all the other presently proposed projects, including the I-4/408 interchange redo and 408 widening (not even including the I-4 widening), Orlando downtown will be something to behold. I never thought the day would come, but it looks like that day is coming sooner than later.

I just wish Hyatt and Hilton would build their cockamamie hotels along with the Peabody expansion and secure the OCCC as the nation's leader in conventions. they need "X" amount of rooms within "X" distance to get certain conventions. the economy has slowed down the ground breaking on those projects. luckily, Rosen's Shingle Creek has broken ground down the street. that's about 1,400 rooms.

SkydiveJunkie... You should edit the initial post of this thread to update it.

I've made some updates. Check it out.

niice, that facade reminds me of the "classic" publix in college park. Except now, it will be in the heart of downtown. While I don't think they needed to throw out more incentives, we at least know this project will now get done. With the movie theater, condo's, & now this, we've almost got everything we need to have a fully functional downtown. All that's left is outdoor shopping... which I'm sure will come once the downtown population hits critical mass.

Hey, now that I like - a lot

Scheduled for the January 18, 2005 Municipal Planning Board meeting agenda is a request by Palace Orlando LLC to allow construction of a mixed-use development (residential and retail) consisting of two towers approximately 360 feet in height. The project is called "Orlando Palace" and is to be located on the east side of Legion Place, south of S. Ivanhoe Blvd. and north of N. Orange Ave. and consists of 1.56 acres.

With the applicant being Oliver Danan of the Danan Group, it is safe to say that the Orlando Towers project has been renamed Orlando Palace. Therefore, Orlando Towers/Palace will be approximately 360 feet tall.

I hope the Publix design doesn't change either, I love it. That will look so cool on Central. All and all, I think its going to be the best project to go up this year (style-wise).

Did you all know that Jetblue is building a training facility and hangar at OIA? Right off of Cargo & Goldenrod/Heintzelman. no link to post.

check out my list on the 1st page of this thread, I have a rendering posted.

Orlando has OK'd funds for grocery

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By Mark Schlueb | Sentinel Staff Writer
Posted January 11, 2005

Groceries are coming to Thornton Park.

The Orlando City Council on Monday voted to give $3.7 million to the developer of a condo and office tower that includes an amenity it has long coveted downtown: a full-service grocery.

The 16-story building will go across from Lake Eola, between Central Boulevard and Pine Street. Besides the ground-floor grocery store -- identified as a Publix by city officials -- the project will include 314 condos, 12,100 square feet of office space, above- and below-ground parking, and retail space.

Commissioners Phil Diamond and Vicki Vargo said much of downtown is doing fine without incentives.

Mark Schlueb can be reachedat mschlueb@orlandosentinel.comor 407-420-5417.
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/orl-locincentives11011105jan11,1,7069879.story

HAS ANYONE HEARD ABOUT THIS:

I was talking to a friend whose father works for a big Texas oil company, which owns Wedgefield out by SR 520 and SR 50 and Toll 528. THe same company also owns Six Flags. He said that they have a proposal to build a mega-mall which straddles both sides of the road with a covered walkway connecting both sides, which will contain an enclosed theme park, similar to Mall of America. He also said this is one of the main reasons they widened SR 520 between 50 and 528. He also said you won't hear about this project anywhere in the media b/c its hush hush.

that's my story and I'm sticking to it. :)

Jesus
just what orlando needs, more malls.
But more power to em, I'm really not exciting about a project like that, but mall of america is real nice... so if it ends up being similar to that it might fly. Pretty interesting

The last thing the city needs is another mall, especially a mega mall that potentially empties out the other regional malls, closer to town. I would rather much, see more of these potential retail outlets headed for the suburbs, become a part of some of the projects planned for Orange Avenue in downtown.

I'm all for downtown development, but what if people don't want to go downtown ?

(Not aimed at anyone in particular)

^I think with the boom of urban projects across the country, and especially Florida, there's a large segment of our local markets that do want to go downtown. There's no room for a regional mall, but an urban district consisting of one or two large department stores and several street level retail shops could exist. Just look at the success of City Place in West Palm Beach, downtown Winter Park, Lincoln Street in Miami Beach and Flager Avenue in downtown Miami.

I quite agree that there is a market for downtown retail.

I've been to alot of cities around the U.S. and, one thing i noticed is that most of the downtown's in these major cities contained either a mall, or big retail or specialty shops. Department store and dining are the highest in Orlando than any other city in FL. Orlando is ranked #1 in fashion retail for the whole state of Florida, unexpectingly surpassing Miami. There should be no reason why OUR downtown cannot have high class retail. Also by 2013, Orlando will be third in the nation for highest growth population. The need for this will soon change, we'll have to wait for 55west, Vue, The Plaza and all the other condo projects to finish.

Big change looms for Central Park
Winter Park is weighing a plan for condos, shops and a post office there.

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By Christopher Sherman | Sentinel Staff Writer
Posted January 16, 2005

WINTER PARK -- Spotting a friend striding toward him, Sunta Mammaloen said, "They always know where to find me."

For Mammaloen, that's Central Park, the manicured green space stretching along Park Avenue where he lounged on a bench Thursday morning.

"I've always liked the quaintness out here," said the local gym owner, sporting sunglasses, a stocking cap and flip-flops.

For the city of Winter Park, maintaining that quaintness in the shadow of four stories of condos, offices and shops will be a challenge. The city's planning and zoning board last week recommended approval for the project proposed for the 2-acre post office site.

Change is coming to what one planner called Winter Park's "living room" at the Congress for the New Urbanism Conference at Rollins College Wednesday.

The post office project that will anchor the northwest corner of the park will incorporate 130 condominiums, more than 23,000 square feet of retail and office space, a new 22,000-square-foot post office and two levels of underground parking with 515 spaces.

The mammoth scale of such a project has some Winter Park residents fearing for their city's future, while others, such as Mammaloen, base their faith on the city's track record.

Mammaloen, 38, conceded he wasn't in the loop on all of the plans for the park's redevelopment, but so far he hasn't found the city's changes objectionable.

"If it's going to disrupt this setting, I'm not for that," he said. "But I pretty much like everything they do in the city."

The post office project goes before the City Commission next week.

Any change is bound to be disruptive, but a panel of planners and architects asked to provide feedback on the park's master plan said positive changes could be made.

One suggestion was creating distinctive spaces within Central Park, such as the rose garden at New England and Park avenues.

Another was to give the park a more definite boundary on the west side, like the shops on Park Avenue form to the east.

Marcella Camblor, of the Treasure Coast Regional Planning Council, applauded getting the U.S. Postal Service to agree to cooperate in the private redevelopment of its property by Central Park Station Partners LLC.

"I think it's great to keep a civic building on the park," she said. The scale of the project was not a concern to her. "The park is enormous," she said. "If there's an area in the city that can handle more height, it's around the park."

Before the 6-acre park is significantly altered, the question of parking must be resolved, said Don Martin, the city's director of planning and community development. One of the ideas that came out of the park's master plan a couple of years ago was "undergrounding" two city parking lots between New York Avenue and the railroad tracks in order to expand the park to 10 acres.

The panel supported the idea of burying the parking and covering it with park space. Technical studies to determine its feasibility have begun.

But Victor Dover, of Dover, Kohl & Partners Town Planning, which created Park Avenue's master plan, lamented the parking hurdle facing so many downtown redevelopments even while supporting the idea of hiding the parking.

Few people are probably as familiar with every foot of the park as Leo Coleman of Orlando, one of two people who handle the park's maintenance for the city.

Coleman has grown to love the park in the more than two years he has been cutting, trimming and edging its grounds.

"It's beautiful, especially after we just cut it, like today," Coleman said. "This is one of the parks in the area where the people really use it."

Coleman hadn't seen the park's master plan but said his concern was that it didn't become crowded.

"This is very subtle -- peaceful."

Christopher Sherman can be reached at csherman@orlandosentinel.com or 407-650-6361.
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/orange/orl-ororpark16011605jan16,1,7918448.story

I've been to alot of cities around the U.S. and, one thing i noticed is that most of the downtown's in these major cities contained either a mall, or big retail or specialty shops. Department store and dining are the highest in Orlando than any other city in FL. Orlando is ranked #1 in fashion retail for the whole state of Florida, unexpectingly surpassing Miami.

I wouldn't go that far. Orlando's fashion retail is no where on Miami/South Florida's level. South Florida leads the entire South in this category. However, it is pretty competitive with the Tampa Bay area's. But I do agree, that downtown is ready for big retail.

I wouldn't go that far. Orlando's fashion retail is no where on Miami/South Florida's level. South Florida leads the entire South in this category. However, it is pretty competitive with the Tampa Bay area's. But I do agree, that downtown is ready for big retail.

Actually it is that far. When I lived in Orlando I had 3 large malls located within 15 minutes from my house. Florida Mall, Millenia Mall, & Fashion Square mall. There is also premium outlet mall, bellz factory outlet mall & Pointe Orlando within the area too. Because of Orlando's position as the states main tourist draw, it has the ability to support the unusually large amount of shopping retail that it has. Orlando is unique in that way. If one were to pull up the stats I can almost guarantee it would be leading Miami in overall fashion retail.
However when it comes to HIGH END fashion, Miami would definately edge out Orlando simply due to larger concentration of high income households.
I can put my neck out on the line & say that Orlando has the highest concentration of fashion retail in Florida, even ahead of Miami... may not have the quantity, but overall saturation would be ahead. I'd like for someone to pull the numbers just to see for sure tho

I still don't know, yes metro Orlando does have a high concentration of retail outlets, primary low end, and malls. However, I still think it pales in absolute retail numbers when compared to Metro Miami, which consists of Miami-Dade, Broward & Palm Beach Counties. I would be interested to see the stats on this. Does anyone have any they can post?

yea, I edited my post cuz I wanted to stress it was concentration, not raw numbers that would put it ahead. I'm trying to look for some recent info right now.

The information I stated in my post are all facts. I made sure to do my research before replying to any thread. Yes, believe it or not, Orlando does beat Miami in retail. I'm not talkin about how the people dress, yes, people in miami are known for being fashionalbe, but the facts are that Orlando surpasses Miami. Those are the facts and i'm stickin to it...

Could you please post these facts, for everyone to see?

Ok, lets slow down with the statistics on malls and fashion in Orlando vs. miami.

You all want facts, here's the only facts that count. This whole retail-per-capita thing is a good stat, but it is misleading. Here's the facts:

For starters, Orlando BLOWS Tampa out of the water when it comes to retail. No comparison. More malls, more outlets, more high end department stores.

Regarding Miami metro; Miami metro up to PBCo has over 20 malls. Orlando has 7 enclosed malls with traditional department stores. Throw in Lake Square Mall and it has 8. Making a stretch to include Brevard and East Volusia Counties, and you got 3 more for 11 in the extended urban area.

Miami's got more Bloomingdales'; Macy's; Neiman's; Nordstroms; Saks'; etc... No comparison.

Orlando beats out any city its size anywhere in the US for retail. It even beats out many cities twice its size for retail. But Miami is a retail and fashion juggernaut. Shoot, Miami even beats out cities (metros) larger than it is. In fact, Miami metro might even be as powerful of a retail market as Chicago, LA and NYC. I need to check stats on that. Miami is unreal re retail.

Orlando's other "malls" include Belz I, Belz II, Belz Designers Outlet, Belz Festival Bay (1.1 million sq. ft.), Chelsea Premium Outlets (1 million sq. ft.), Pointe Orlando, Waterford Lakes T.C. (largest open air SC in Fla.), Winter park Village, *Sanford Towne Center, Downtown Disney, Universal Citywalk, etc...

Orlando's got alot, but Miami's got much more- and I know you acknowledged that in your post. I would like to see the stats on retail sales for FY '04 in Orlando vs. Miami metro. Throw in Tampa while we're at it. Forget Jax, they ain't got squat.

What Orlando needs is a mall downtown, to take up an entire city block, as pretty as Millenia, but more vertical, and connected with skywalks to a couple of neighboring buildings with offices and residential. None of this cinema BS and bowling alley BS Cameron Kuhn wants to anchor the Benchmark building. By the time a downtown mall is built, the major high-end dept. stores at Millenia and Fla Mall can reassess whether they can further expand into the Orlando market and place more of their stores downtown.

FYI, the Turnpike Authority is constructing more ramps at the interchange of 408 and the Turnpike so that travellers can now get on TPK south from 408 west and also get on 408 east from the TPK north. It will be just like the 528 and I-4 interchange.

The last thing downtown Orlando needs is a big mall taking up a full block of prime real estate. Further, connecting it to buildings through skyways? talk about non-pedestrian streetlevel. When downtown is ready, and it will be ready, retail will evolve like it has in other cities with a stronger market for it (chicago--michigan ave, boston--newbury street, nyc--fifth, etc). I would much prefer this kind of retail than a big stinking mall.

also, a cinema downtown is going to do more than you realize...

Orlando's other "malls" include Belz I, Belz II, Belz Designers Outlet, Belz Festival Bay (1.1 million sq. ft.), Chelsea Premium Outlets (1 million sq. ft.), Pointe Orlando, Waterford Lakes T.C. (largest open air SC in Fla.), Winter park Village, *Sanford Towne Center, Downtown Disney, Universal Citywalk, etc...

Not that this really matters, but Orlando isn't the only city with outlet malls, outdoor entertainment centers and lifestyle centers.

Orlando's got alot, but Miami's got much more- and I know you acknowledged that in your post. I would like to see the stats on retail sales for FY '04 in Orlando vs. Miami metro. Throw in Tampa while we're at it. Forget Jax, they ain't got squat.

Why mention Jax? All of the other metros are nearly twice its size and clearly big tourist destinations, as well.

The last thing downtown Orlando needs is a big mall taking up a full block of prime real estate. Further, connecting it to buildings through skyways? talk about non-pedestrian streetlevel. When downtown is ready, and it will be ready, retail will evolve like it has in other cities with a stronger market for it (chicago--michigan ave, boston--newbury street, nyc--fifth, etc). I would much prefer this kind of retail than a big stinking mall.

also, a cinema downtown is going to do more than you realize...

I agree, the last thing any downtown needs is an outdoor mall. As a matter of fact, malls aren't as popular as they used to be, back in the late 80's and early 90's. People like being outside, especially in Florida. That's why most new retail centers being built now are outdoor lifestyle centers, which are designed to resemble urban downtown streets. Whatever retail takes place in downtown should be fully oriented and interact with the street. If you want enclosed shopping malls surrounded by a sea of parking, head to the suburbs.

I've been to alot of cities around the U.S. and, one thing i noticed is that most of the downtown's in these major cities contained either a mall, or big retail or specialty shops. Department store and dining are the highest in Orlando than any other city in FL. Orlando is ranked #1 in fashion retail for the whole state of Florida, unexpectingly surpassing Miami. There should be no reason why OUR downtown cannot have high class retail. Also by 2013, Orlando will be third in the nation for highest growth population. The need for this will soon change, we'll have to wait for 55west, Vue, The Plaza and all the other condo projects to finish.


you're totally wrong bro,i love orlando but comeon you're stretching it if you want to believe orlando surpasses miami in retail,all i have to say is the city of aventura(9sqmiles),bal harbour(1sqmile),coral gables(12miles) and north miami(8miles) probably account for 2/3 of orlando's retail

I know I'm by no means a moderator or anything here but as a user who likes to browse these forums by subject, can we please keep this thread on subject of development news.

I don't believe the intention of these sticky threads is to hold ALL discussion about a specific city or area and it really bothers me to see a development thread hijacked into a city vs. city thing...on malls of all things.....

just my two cents. Hope I'm not out of line.

^No you're not out of line, you're actually right. I just have to work on holding myself back, when reading false information.