copied & pasted goodness from the other forum...


Goofing off a bit at work - so I thought I would make some population comparisons, and who knows - maybe even start a little flame war

Using census block groups, the following are population figures for major urban areas that are within, or on a distance from the city's downtown. So keep in mind that it includes census blocks that are not necessarily COMPLETELY within the specified buffer. But it's close enough anyways - so it shouldn't favor one city over another.

Just to keep in mind, consider areas 1 mile from downtown to be of course high density. 5 miles will include high density but also century old neighborhoods - essentially this area would be considered the 'intown' area. 10 miles may include some older neighborhoods, but will primarily be post WWII suburbanism in it's infancy. Often this is a popular infill area for new development. Beyond that I captured what is 25 miles around the downtown. And who cares what's beyond that, right ?

Urban Population Over 1 Million
Year 2000 2003

Atlanta
1 30915 31985
5 318733 325189
10 859781 892034
25 2887220 3117200

Dallas
1 20930 22900
5 345984 357523
10 1039447 108492
25 3423359 3696751

Houston
1 27836 28313
5 393554 405482
10 1203739 1251432
25 3656948 3880361

Miami
1 33773 35888
5 402658 406948
10 1065212 1087616
25 2932926 3095068

Washington
1 27561 28620
5 606436 611404
10 1646843 1677911
25 3788458 3936702

Tampa
1 16508 17531
5 219599 223552
10 617609 644269
25 1991207 2097474

Norfolk
1 19236 19406
5 272784 272866
10 641739 653113
25 1364231 1395107

San Antonio
1 17324 17376
5 389749 397200
10 905783 937680
25 1489264 1570835

Orlando
1 19103 19373
5 298052 310860
10 860640 920727
25 1529757 1678985

New Orleans
1 27102 27812
5 466246 462402
10 865168 860171
25 1082152 1078508


Urban Population Under One Million

Year 2000 2003

Memphis
1 13176 14732
5 169616 169158
10 493775 492958
25 1053404 109630

Austin
1 23034 24000
5 311513 331872
10 644694 698239
25 1083093 1220534

Jacksonville
1 15602 15719
5 220747 224886
10 555790 577986
25 995031 1056186

Louisville
1 14663 14568
5 261981 261040
10 593591 596323
25 1024518 1051259

Richmond
1 32103 31829
5 243003 242878
10 550210 564119
25 957109 994473

Charlotte
1 11401 12602
5 229080 240004
10 555134 598691
25 1238743 1359357

Nashville
1 8180 8140
5 214537 216077
10 475240 479168
25 968399 1012918

Birmingham
1 10162 10048
5 207181 204104
10 473055 473025
25 840917 855469

Raleigh
1 19180 19339
5 185882 194523
10 442699 486653
25 920615 1027524

Sorry from the tab delimited challenged...

It would be cool if those stats included the percentage of the metro pop. at the various distances. Anyways, interesting stats.

It would be cool if those stats included the percentage of the metro pop. at the various distances. Anyways, interesting stats.

Oh, my hard sweaty work isn't good enough for you? Well, calculate it yourself ;)

What about 30 or more miles away? Houston, Dallas, and Atlanta have plenty of burbs set 30 miles or more away.

Oh, and HOU has a massive amount 10 miles away due to the location of Uptown ( like 8 miles, I think, and that rounds off to the 10 mile mark, or whatever )

Just think how high these pops will be once the inner cities start to urbanize ( HOU, ATL, DAL )

Oh, my hard sweaty work isn't good enough for you? Well, calculate it yourself ;)
Your hard work isn't cutting it, bud, better luck tomorrow. Haha. Fine, I'll calculate it myself (if I find the time). :okay:

What about 30 or more miles away? Houston, Dallas, and Atlanta have plenty of burbs set 30 miles or more away.


I'd rather not go that far out ;)

What interests me aren't particularly the 1 mile radius population figures - but 5 miles. That figure generally defines how healthy the inner core of the city is, & what potential exists for development. Some cities that have a surprisingly large 'intown' population are San Antonio, Orlando, Austin & Louisville.

Houston's Uptown will also become a densly populated area once more urbanized projects pop up. That will give the 10 mile range an extra boost.

Awesome list brad...I was really surprised with the 5 mile figures of Norfolk and New Orleans. WOW!

Great job. Its amazing to see the New Orleans number, within 5 miles of downtown, alsmost matches its entire city population. Especially since its consolidated with its Parish (county).

Louisville has a population within 10 miles of downtown that is greater than many cities that are viewed as larger. This is true even with all of the city's parks which average more than most cities per capita. Louisville lacks a plethora of commuter burbs 30 miles from downtown....but I'm glad. Anyone who explores the city's neighborhoods can attest to its density universally.

yay!

Nashville loses :D

New Orleans is one of the most City-like smaller cities I have ever seen, as almost all of its population is pretty urban, even in the burbs like kenner it is kinda tight.

Louisville has a population within 10 miles of downtown that is greater than many cities that are viewed as larger. This is true even with all of the city's parks which average more than most cities per capita. Louisville lacks a plethora of commuter burbs 30 miles from downtown....but I'm glad. Anyone who explores the city's neighborhoods can attest to its density universally.

louisville has almost a chicago-ish density in many places and its oh so cool, with the hills and all, and yeah its amazing how even with HUGE parks it is still that dense. The only suburbs I can think of about 30 miles from the city are mt. washington, and hillview. BUT Elizabeth town is really growing toward louisville and has many of the amenities of a city (mall, chains, downtown) I will have to get pics...but some sites already consider E-town msa combined with the ville.

Excellent work Brad! I agree the 5 mile figure is a good indicator for how healthy the traditionally "oldest" parts of a city are.

Norfolk was impressive.

Good job TheBrad.

Awesome numbers. it definitely represents Charlotte well, based on Uptown, but I think Charlotte's densest 'core' is not centered by Uptown, but rather slightly east/northeast of Uptown.

Uptown itself is not very dense and is trying to make a comeback. But until that comeback becomes a reality, Uptown's low population of 8500 hurts Charlotte's 1-mile population figure.

The one mile raduis population for Austin is on point. With one of the fastest cities growing, not only are more people starting to live in downtown, but UT college students also make up the radius population. Near the campus, it is dense with dormitories all around. Others who rent small houses live on the edge of the radius. That's why UT is the most college attended.

Seems the most noticeable thing about these lists is that cities in the secondary list appear very similar in pattern. Geographic considerations, industrial designations, definitions of 1-mile cores do show some distinct differences in some, but for the most part, we all seem to be generally alike.

Is there a source for this data or was it just compiled from adding census tract data?

louisville has almost a chicago-ish density in many places and its oh so cool, with the hills and all, and yeah its amazing how even with HUGE parks it is still that dense. The only suburbs I can think of about 30 miles from the city are mt. washington, and hillview. BUT Elizabeth town is really growing toward louisville and has many of the amenities of a city (mall, chains, downtown) I will have to get pics...but some sites already consider E-town msa combined with the ville.



Incidentally, I saw part of the filming for the movie, Elizabethtown, starring Kirsten Dunst and Orlando Bloom to be released in 2005. Although the film is about a small Kentucky town, much filming was done throughout Louisville proper, including downtown (I assume they didn't pan up to the skyscrapers).

In actuallity, E-town as is it is lovingly called isnt as tiny as the movie potrays it either. It has nearly 100,000 people and has indeed become a commuter suburb about 32 miles south of downtown Louisville.

Is there a source for this data or was it just compiled from adding census tract data?

Census block data & a source to determine city center - used to base the buffer.

Incidentally, I saw part of the filming for the movie, Elizabethtown, starring Kirsten Dunst and Orlando Bloom to be released in 2005. Although the film is about a small Kentucky town, much filming was done throughout Louisville proper, including downtown (I assume they didn't pan up to the skyscrapers).

In actuallity, E-town as is it is lovingly called isnt as tiny as the movie potrays it either. It has nearly 100,000 people and has indeed become a commuter suburb about 32 miles south of downtown Louisville.

No doubt LOL....they even have their own freeway, the dixie bypass. And they have a pretty ok mall, and all of the suburban stores youd have anywhere else and going up the dixie there is only about 5 miles that is bare between radcliff and then you are in Valley station. I hate hollywood and what they make people seem like elsewhere, it is just effin dumb.

:( No Fort Worth? I think the 5 miles data would be close to 300,000, because it basically comprises everything inside the loop. I'm not sure of that though.

Are these distances from single points? Or are they distances from the outer boundaries of geographic areas? I assume it's the first option if it's to be apples-to-apples.

Sorry - fwskyline, I was working on one for Fort Worth but didn't have an accurate enough center point to start off from. I'll try to post one today, especially for Tampa's sister city of St. Petersburg - which has a larger downtown area population.

mhays - the distances are from central points, as accurate a 'downtown' point I can find. Then any census blocks that are within the 1 mile buffer are selected, and I retrieve the population. It's not perfectly accurate, but considering the block size, it's reasonably close.


For comparison sake - here's Chicago:

2000 / 2003
1 - 26650 / 28705
5 - 556852 / 560899
10 - 2263219 / 2262430

Remember - that the Loop in Chicago is practically all high density office - so this population in the general one mile perimeter is impressive considering there is so much office. Of course the greater downtown area - at around 5 miles is beyond any other southeastern city, though Washington is surprisingly larger. But the 10 mile radius dwarfs any other city.

For comparison sake - here's Chicago:

2000 / 2003
1 - 26650 / 28705
5 - 556852 / 560899
10 - 2263219 / 2262430

Remember - that the Loop in Chicago is practically all high density office - so this population in the general one mile perimeter is impressive considering there is so much office. Of course the greater downtown area - at around 5 miles is beyond any other southeastern city, though Washington is surprisingly larger. But the 10 mile radius dwarfs any other city.

Not so surprisingly though when you consider that half of the areas for Chicago consist of Lake Michigan, so the actual density would be about double.

^ Of course that's true...

But I also believe in the theory that natural barriers intensify the density. So in effect - a large population is a product. In downtown Chicago's case - there is so much parkland & a highly stable office / retail environment. There is little room for residential towers - as is in Atlanta's case. With Atlanta - what has helped the downtown population boom is the high vacancies, a number of office towers have been converted to residential in the past decade.

It would be nice to see something from St. Louis and Cleveland. Since the core areas of the midwestern cities have declined.

That's a very good point, Sleepy.

^ Of course that's true...

But I also believe in the theory that natural barriers intensify the density. So in effect - a large population is a product. In downtown Chicago's case - there is so much parkland & a highly stable office / retail environment. There is little room for residential towers - as is in Atlanta's case. With Atlanta - what has helped the downtown population boom is the high vacancies, a number of office towers have been converted to residential in the past decade.

It does create more density. The five mile radius population for Chicago--500,000 something--is in half the land area of the five mile radius population for Washington DC--600,000 something.

So, it shouldn't be surprising that Washington has a somewhat larger population in an area that's approximately double in area.

I predict New York's 1 mile radius to be 200,000 and San Francisco's to be 150,000. While you are at it, Brad, can you post radiuses of NYC and SF to see if my predictions are on point?

Wow, that's really interesting.

the center city population of richmond, va is HUGE compared to cities of any size ... interesting

Yes, I was actually very impressed with Virginia's cities. They aren't mentioned too often on the forums, but they are cool cities to live in (even if the only good skyline is in Richmond :); at least for now.)

Yes, I was actually very impressed with Virginia's cities. They aren't mentioned too often on the forums, but they are cool cities to live in (even if the only good skyline is in Richmond :); at least for now.)

Though it isnt tall I love the way Norfolks urbanity is and how it is surrounded with water and other natural beauty....Sorry for replying to every thread JRQ, I just have oh so much to say :)

Sorry for replying to every thread JRQ, I just have oh so much to say :)

lol :weirdo:

:jk: :jk: :jk:

I predict New York's 1 mile radius to be 200,000 and San Francisco's to be 150,000. While you are at it, Brad, can you post radiuses of NYC and SF to see if my predictions are on point?

Keep in mind NYC's official downtown is in the lower point in Manhatten:

NYC 2000 / 2003
1 - 112525 / 113686
5 - 1729836 / 1754630 !!! (this covers south of Central Park, parts of Brooklyn, & parts of NJ)

SF
1 - 113609 / 117343
5 - 718652 / 731260

San Francisco might be a little off in terms of a centralized location, but from what I remember - the Civic Center area which includes city hall is southwest of Chinatown. Further away from the bay from the rest of downtown.

Am I reading you correctly, Brad? Little ole Richmond (a 2nd tier southeast city) has the 3rd largest population (31,829) in the 1 mile radius category - topped only by Miami and Atlanta? Does the figure include the 26,000 students at Virginia Commonwealth University whose 2 campuses lie within the 1 mile circle? I suspect not, because the dense Fan District, Church Hill and areas of north and south Richmond are also within the circle. I'm amazed!

That is pretty impressive....how did you figure these out...id like to figure cincinnati and Indianapolis

Am I reading you correctly, Brad? Little ole Richmond (a 2nd tier southeast city) has the 3rd largest population (31,829) in the 1 mile radius category - topped only by Miami and Atlanta? Does the figure include the 26,000 students at Virginia Commonwealth University whose 2 campuses lie within the 1 mile circle? I suspect not, because the dense Fan District, Church Hill and areas of north and south Richmond are also within the circle. I'm amazed!
I don't know why you're amazed -- it seems like you've been to Richmond. Don't you remember it being a dense city? It's pretty dense Don't under estimate little ole Richmond.

These stats deserve a bump. :)

Well - if you are going to give it a bump, I should at least update the stats on census block rather than block group. I'll see what I can do....

Brad, could you do Indy and Cincy like schris asked? Louisville is a pretty impressive, and very dense city considering you dont hear much about it. What concerns me though is that the one mile radius actually went down a couple hundred in three years. That seems contrary to all the residential going up downtown. We shall see.

Very interesting data. Good work! The larger cities are pretty similar.

^ don't forget that the land area being compared in Miami is less than half than the other larger cities(Biscayne Bay and the Atlantic)...and it STill manages to remain in the top 4 based on this critereia. It surpasses all cities in the 1-mile and 5-mile figures (except for New Orleans in the five-mile) with a drastically reduced land area, a tribute to Miami's density!

You'd think that with Jacksonville being so spread out that it wouldn't have that kind of density.

On top of that, if you are familiar with the current downtown residential boom, that is going to increase dramatically in the 1 and 5 range.

I just had to throw this out; I would think that there is substantially more parkland in both the 1 and 5 mile radius areas of Austin. Although the numbers are already fairly impressive compared to it's peers, I think if parkland was subtracted from the equation, there would be considerable more density in Austin. We have some of the largest tracks of urban parkland and greenbelt in the nation.

Richmond, with the third ranking density core in the 1-mile category, will be getting even denser in the near future. More up-scale housing is under construction in at least four old retrofitted warehouses along Tobacco Row and in Shockoe Bottom and across the James in Manchester. The old John Marshall Hotel is undergoing a $45 million conversion to condos and the old Miller & Rhoads department store will become a 229 room hotel with 100 condominiums. In addition, Riverside-on-the-James opens its sold-out nine- story residential unit in a couple of months and there are plans for a high-rise residential building between the river and canal at 14th Street. Several old former four-story furniture stores in the 00 and 100 blocks of West Broad street have been recently gutted and transformed into a total of 100 plus apartments. With the imminent completion of VCU's new 17-story Brandt Hall, that urban university will have a total of more than 3000 undergrad apartments So, combined with numerous smaller projects, it would appear that by 2007, at least 5000 new housing units will be filled within the 1-mile radius of Mr. Jefferson's Capitol building.

Fascinating! Thanks for figuring these out.

Norfolk was impressive.

Good job TheBrad.

It's interesting that the 5-mile numbers are higher than the city's total population. Tells ya something about the geographic size of the city relative to many of the others.

I think posting dates on this topic are askew. At least, I know that mine were in spring of 2005, not August 2004.

Shows how much DC is densely populated in its 5 mile radius. Over 200,000 more than Houston. San Antonio has a hell of a core too surprisingly.

DC's 5 mile radius spills into the Maryland and Virginia suburbs.

I just had to throw this out; I would think that there is substantially more parkland in both the 1 and 5 mile radius areas of Austin. Although the numbers are already fairly impressive compared to it's peers, I think if parkland was subtracted from the equation, there would be considerable more density in Austin. We have some of the largest tracks of urban parkland and greenbelt in the nation.

Perhaps not as many people would chose to live near downtown Austin if they didn't have so many parks. Every city has it's share of residentially non-developable land.

Here is a slight update, take this data with a grain of salt. Before I used block group data - which are census boundaries that make accurate measurements difficult, though better than census tract. Here I selected some cities - I'll try to do TX & the borderline cities next - based on census block, the smallest boundary unit. But since I have no population estimates, I went with 2000 & 1990, which I will preface with this disclaimer:

Ok, please enjoy :)

Atlanta
1 Mile, 34%
1990, 8701
2000, 13223
5 Mile, 5%
1990, 250481
2000, 265888
10 Mile, 8%
1990, 677916
2000, 744420

Birmingham
1 Mile, -11%
1990, 4954
2000, 4430
5 Mile, -9%
1990, 172798
2000, 157103
10 Mile, -3%
1990, 421580
2000, 407898

Jacksonville
1 Mile, -8%
1990, 10624
2000, 9794
5 Mile, -4%
1990, 186575
2000, 179140
10 Mile, 4%
1990, 450693
2000, 471594

Orlando
1 Mile, -6%
1990, 12169
2000, 11381
5 Mile, 1%
1990, 214258
2000, 215777
10 Mile, 15%
1990, 620091
2000, 736766

Tampa
1 Mile, -16%
1990, 9042
2000, 7751
5 Mile, 1%
1990, 186300
2000, 186537
10 Mile, 7%
1990, 503822
2000, 545846

St Petersburg
1 Mile, -9%
1990, 15876
2000, 14565
5 Mile, 2%
1990, 218406
2000, 223649
10 Mile, 10%
1990, 369876
2000, 414146

Miami
1 Mile, 10%
1990, 20901
2000, 23470
5 Mile, -2%
1990, 383442
2000, 375190
10 Mile, 3%
1990, 949892
2000, 988319

New Orleans
1 Mile, -1%
1990, 18815
2000, 18632
5 Mile, -3%
1990, 436478
2000, 420307
10 Mile, -1%
1990, 840175
2000, 832752

Charlotte
1 Mile, -3%
1990, 5676
2000, 5504
5 Mile, -1%
1990, 164731
2000, 164550
10 Mile, 16%
1990, 406357
2000, 488015

Raleigh
1 Mile, 7%
1990, 10299
2000, 11194
5 Mile, 8%
1990, 126517
2000, 138136
10 Mile, 19%
1990, 296221
2000, 369291

Nashville
1 Mile, -9%
1990, 4670
2000, 4256
5 Mile, 1%
1990, 175719
2000, 176010
10 Mile, 3%
1990, 387196
2000, 401513

Memphis
1 Mile, -17%
1990, 14960
2000, 12782
5 Mile, -16%
1990, 242455
2000, 208523
10 Mile, -6%
1990, 563470
2000, 528557

Richmond
1 Mile, -1%
1990, 20388
2000, 20341
5 Mile, -3%
1990, 204559
2000, 198128
10 Mile, -3%
1990, 204559
2000, 198128