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Greetings all !!

I have been a frequent reader of the Miami threads for a couple of years now, but have only decided to post today. I grew up in Miami in the 1960s, and 70s. I spent my childhood in "awe" of 1 Biscayne Tower as the tallest in Miami. I followed the boom of the 80's from a distance as I moved around the country---living in Atlanta, Houston, San Francisco, etc.

I love the boom in Miami, but I am wondering if our Miami skyline will ever achieve world class status? Some of you would probably think it is there already, and it IS georgeous ! But height still is impressive !

Besides hurricanes, and the proximity to MIA (and FAA restrictions), what is standing in the way of a 1000 footer?

I remember reading something online a year or two ago about a developer who was talking about building "the world's tallest" in Miami. Seems to me, it was going to be a pyramid (could be wrong about that part). Whatever happened?

I have always found it odd that Miami has no tower ( CN Tower, Space Needle, Tower of the Americas) or a world class restaurant at the top of one of it's tallest buildings. Why? The most beautiful city in the USA !?!?!

And, if I may throw out a second question.....why is there no plan for a new Marlin's stadium on the bay? I have seen what Pac Bell (now SBC Park) has done for San Francisco, and I wonder why Miami, with it's beautiful Biscayne Bay is not the site of a world class baseball stadium. Seems like an outdoor venue, where a view is needed, would have been a much more worthier project for the site of AA Arena.

Still, I favor the Orange Bowl site, over Pro Player Stadium.

If any of you regulars would like to opine on my questions/comments...I would greatly appreciate it!

YOUR RIGHT Embarcadero, it was supposed to be a 150 story Pyramid facing Biscayne Bvld. and spreading over Three City Blocks, but like other tall buildings in that area, THE FAA had its say, and the developer SOLD OUT to the Three Towers going up on those same three blocks, THE MARINA BLUE (625 ft) 60 stories, The 900 BISCAYNE (712 ft) 65 stories, and the TEN MUSEUM TOWER (585 ft) 50 stories. Its sad, but its true, the FAA is knocking :bash: the heights off these buildings that are trying to reach that MAGIC 1,000. I Believe in our Lifetime, MIAMI will only see a 900 ft TOWER and it will be MET3 at a close margin with 72 Stories over 800 ft. :) Its up to how high that design on top of MET3 Climbs to a record height. :runaway:

^^^

whered you get those height numbers for marina blue and 900 biscayne and ten museum?


your very well informed, glad your part of this forum :cheers:

lol, dont put much into the biggest tower in the world pyramid thing, the same guy has proposed that piramid in cities all over the world, and it keeps getting shut down

YOUR RIGHT Embarcadero, it was supposed to be a 150 story Pyramid facing Biscayne Bvld. and spreading over Three City Blocks, but like other tall buildings in that area, THE FAA had its say, and the developer SOLD OUT to the Three Towers going up on those same three blocks, THE MARINA BLUE (625 ft) 60 stories, The 900 BISCAYNE (712 ft) 65 stories, and the TEN MUSEUM TOWER (585 ft) 50 stories. Its sad, but its true, the FAA is knocking :bash: the heights off these buildings that are trying to reach that MAGIC 1,000. I Believe in our Lifetime, MIAMI will only see a 900 ft TOWER and it will be MET3 at a close margin with 72 Stories over 800 ft. :) Its up to how high that design on top of MET3 Climbs to a record height. :runaway:


Hasn't Met3 been scrapped ?

It was, and then they brought it back, when they realized the office mmarket is falling flat on its face. (basically everywhere, not just Miami). As all of the call centers move overseas, it is creating millions of sq ft of office space for everyone to move into if/when they grow.

It was, and then they brought it back, when they realized the office mmarket is falling flat on its face. (basically everywhere, not just Miami). As all of the call centers move overseas, it is creating millions of sq ft of office space for everyone to move into if/when they grow.

That would be great if true. But I thought that the notion of the return of Met3 was based on the Miami Herald's mistakenly publishing a rendering of the original configuration.

I checked at the MET TOWERS Sales Office today in the Dupont Plaza area, and the sales Ladies there told me, " That Scale MODEL OF ALL 3 MET TOWERS IS REAL ", In Fact , Their starting CONSTRUCTION NEXT MONTH on MET 1. WOW the OLD DUPONT PLAZA has NO Windows or Walls, its ready to be knocked down next month. its a Great feeling to see all the construction going on in just that one area, ONE MIAMI, CARBONNEL, BRICKELL ON THE RIVER, are all rising at the same time, WOW, AWESOME !!, the Feeeling gives me the runs !!, LOL.

I think the conclusion on Met 3 should be wait and see. It'll probably be the last one built and that could be 1 to 2 years from now. There wasn't much to announce the office tower. The website never changed the design, and there wasn't any official pronouncment as far as I could tell. Just a small blurb in the paper describing the change. Likewise there wasn't any official change saying it was going back. Just a rendering that may or may not have been old.

I think they'll go ahead with met2 and probably decide from there. It wouldn't suprise me if the market tanks and the 3rd tower isn't built at all.

I'm afraid you're correct about Met 3^^.

Well, perhaps we can all just relax. I don't think the original timeline had Met3 being completed much before 2010 anyway.

SORRY DALE, :) I still think For Sure 2020, will be the 1,000 Foot Tower in Downtown Miami, when More of the Older Buildings Come Down in the Future and Higher ones go up. :cheers:

well the Miami office market surely cannot support a 1,000 footer, and if there is ever going to be one, hopefully it would be office and not residential.

a miami rediential 1000+ footer would be vvvvvvveeeeeerrrrrrrryyyyyyyy unlikely, but they way development is goin right now, not totally outta the question

i agree wit sky, the office market simply cant take that rite now. for the market to pick up, downtown needs to mature considerably, the condos r helping, and they will spur more office development, and then when that picks up alot then it MIGHT b possible, but at least not for a few decades

Thanks for all the replies, everyone---however, I sure wish it wouldn't take so long to get a 1000 footer. Does anyone else agree that a great skyline has to feature at least one---or am I being greedy, and forgetting overall aesthetics?

God, I love Miami !!!

THE Embarcadero

I rememeber that, I forgot the website I saw it on but it compered the tower to the Miami skyline. After looking at that I say we should wait a...decade...a couple of decades, before building that. They all look like dwarfs to it, like little slaves bowing down. There's just no balance to it :sleepy:

ZULU, and Everyone Else, With the Interest Rates as LOW as they are now at www.interest.com Most of these 500 Plus Projects around Miami-Dade County Will be BUILT Sooner than Later, as Most are now breaking ground or getting ready. THEY ARE Really KNOCKING the Heck out of the DUPONT PLAZA Hotel, Its coming down FAST. No Explosives There, just knocking it dwon fast.

ZULU :) , and Everyone Else, With the Interest Rates as LOW as they are now at www.interest.com Most of these 500 Plus Projects around Miami-Dade County Will be BUILT Sooner than Later, as Most are now breaking ground or getting ready. THEY ARE Really KNOCKING the Heck out of the DUPONT PLAZA Hotel, Its coming down FAST. No Explosives There, just knocking it down fast. :cheers:

Why did you post that twice?

WOW ZULU :) , I'm Seeing DOUBLE, lol.I must of click it TWICE, My first on that , lol. :cheers:

Maybe that new I.M. Pei project next to the BOA buildingmay be a 1000 footer. It's highly possible. I always thought a 1000- footer in Miami would be a mixed-use development with a small super luxury hotel, alot of residential, some office and a little retail on the ground floor and it seems that is exactly what they are planning and since there is no height limit in that area between BOA and Wachiovia Financial Center and mey reach 1000-feet.

Wouldn't that be awesome? And since it Pei you know it will be illuminated! I hope this project goes through..

still think were not ripe enough for a 1000+ footer

i mean come on, we dont even have an 800 footer yet

For some reason, I thought there was a height limit in downtown Miami. Are you all saying there isn't one?

I hope Miami has more diversity in the architecture of their highrises going up in the future. The only building that went up recently that does not look like the rest is Four Seasons. Hopefully the skyline will not look like another Rio or Honolulu.

TEXASBoy :) , That Height LIMIT is only in Certain Areas of DOWNTOWN MIAMI, Where the Planes go over the City towards the South RUNWAY, and THE ANGLE RUNWAY, ( SouthEast to NorthWest ), THE CENTRAL CORE OF the CITY, DUPONT PLAZA AREA HAS NO FAA Restrictions, AS OF NOW, Hopefully that will STAY that way into the FUTURE, A study of that Area was already done and approved by the FAA :bash: 20 years Ago, WHEN they were Building the WACHOVIA Financial Center Tower at 764 FEET, Fomerly back then it was the SOUTHEAST Banking Center.
NIMBY, I believe We will get that 800 FOOTER on WATSON ISLAND in 6 Years, when they Complete THE PLanned 80 - STORY CONDO TOWER Proposed by Developer UGO COLUMBO :) , the Famous Coconut Grove Highest CONDO Tower Developer Building the GROVENOR HOUSE Tower at 32 PLUS Stories at 350 Feet. THe Grove' s Tallest YET !!! :cheers:

ChuckScraperMiami where did you get the height information for Marina Blue,Ten Museum Park & 900 Biscayne?

if miami ever gets a 1000ft building its going to come from either the i.m.pei people,columbo people,millenium people,boyelmegrylen people(didn't know how to spell it) or maybe even the related group and i believe its going to be somewhere unexpected.

TEXASBoy :) , That Height LIMIT is only in Certain Areas of DOWNTOWN MIAMI, Where the Planes go over the City towards the South RUNWAY, and THE ANGLE RUNWAY, ( SouthEast to NorthWest ), THE CENTRAL CORE OF the CITY, DUPONT PLAZA AREA HAS NO FAA Restrictions, AS OF NOW, Hopefully that will STAY that way into the FUTURE, A study of that Area was already done and approved by the FAA :bash: 20 years Ago, WHEN they were Building the WACHOVIA Financial Center Tower at 764 FEET, Fomerly back then it was the SOUTHEAST Banking Center.
NIMBY, I believe We will get that 800 FOOTER on WATSON ISLAND in 6 Years, when they Complete THE PLanned 80 - STORY CONDO TOWER Proposed by Developer UGO COLUMBO :) , the Famous Coconut Grove Highest CONDO Tower Developer Building the GROVENOR HOUSE Tower at 32 PLUS Stories at 350 Feet. THe Grove' s Tallest YET !!! :cheers:

i doubt that the 800-footer will get approved for watson island, the nimbys will get to that one, downtown and brickell our our strongholds, but alotta the rest of miami is pretty nimby dominated, i mean, the entire beach is done as far as high rises, and in north miami somewhere, cant remember where, theres another height restriction, with em trying to get passes all over the city... sadly, i dont think watson is gonna happn that high, the only way well get on is in downtown or brickell

grovernor house is coming along quick, i drive by it all the time on the way to skol, ill take some pictures sometime soon

THANKS NIMBY :) , We need those PICS, the GROVENOR HOUSE is going up fast , NOW at 7 STORIES, WOW another 25 STORIES TO that, WOW and its BULKY and HUGE, I'm Surprise he got those APPROVALS from the cITY, the Grove Residents were really Pissed at the CITY for giving him the APPROVAL, BUT hes got all the Permits and ITS gonna be the Tallest :) and MOST DENSED Tower in THE GROVE, WOW !!! :cheers:

can anyone tell me how to get the skycam from the herald where do i go

hope those dupont towers go up very high,

remember how the plaza on brickell was like dead for months, then a few months ago the project came back strong and the design changed a lil

hopefully that will happen with the dupont towers, it seems dead, like theres no websities or much info on it, but hopefully it will come back STRONG!
and tall

Hopefully, Miami will get a 1,000 ft. building within a decade. What will need to happen to achieve this feat is another office boom like the 1980's boom (which won't likely happen) or a pretty risky mixed-use proposal with a lot of floors of office space to reach the feat. But for right now, no way.

can anyone tell me how to get the skycam from the herald where do i go

http://www.destinationwebcam.com/Miami/Miami%20Portal/Miami_Portal4.htm

Why would the Dupont project seem 'dead' if they are proceeding apace with the demolition ?

^i didnt mean it was dead, i meant that it was kinda dead, like we didnt get any new info or a website or renderings until now,

just how the plaza on brickell and then it came back and full of life

i know its alive and kikin and will be badass

these duponts really need some more height, these three projects are wasting some of the best land downtown! well not wasting, but we could have alot better stuff there, comeo n 40 stories aint jack

Unless the scheme has changed, phase I is 48 stories and phase II is 60 stories.

i just remembered i have access to the miami herald database, which is from when the herald first started till now

LOOK WAT I FOUND

remember this is from the 80s

_____________________________-

Miami Herald, The (FL)


October 14, 1982

METRO PLANS ZONE FOR TALL BUILDINGS


Author: R.A. ZALDIVAR Herald Staff Writer

Edition: FINAL
Section: LOCAL
Page: 1B










Index Terms:
MD MI ZONING



Estimated printed pages: 3



Article Text:

With encouragement from Dupont Plaza developers, Metro-Dade aviation officials are drafting a plan that would allow downtown Miami skyscrapers to exceed a 750-foot height limit recommended by the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA).

Buildings exceeding the height limit would be permitted within an area called a "tall-buildings envelope." The area would lie between two major airport take-off and landing approaches and would be created by an amendment to the Metro Zoning Code.


The maximum building height allowed in the area would be 949 feet, or roughly 90 stories -- higher than any building now planned in Miami.

Current drafts of the tall-buildings zone set its boundaries as I-95 on the west, approximately NE Second Street on the north, Biscayne Bay on the east, and approximately SE 14th Street on the south.

Among the construction projects that could benefit directly
from the tall-buildings zone are the final phase of Theodore Gould's Miami Center and Southeast Bank's new financial center.

"If we're going to be a big city, we're going to have tall buildings," says I.H. (Bud) Carr, assistant director of Metro's Aviation Department.

Carr, who is responsible for airport planning, oversees the work of a team of consultants assigned to the project. But the FAA has not exactly been rushing forward to endorse the plan.

"It's a very touchy subject," says James E. Sheppard, manager of the FAA Miami office.

Carr, however, says the plan is a compromise that takes the interests of the FAA into account and has only a slight effect on airport operations.

"We should protect the airspace to the extent that it's reasonable, but we should also provide some greater capacity for tall buildings," Carr explains.

Developer Gould, who is planning to build an 864-foot office tower and a 770-foot condominium in Dupont Plaza, sees the proposed tall-buildings zone as an asset to Miami's skyline.

"If I couldn't build the 864-foot building, I could build five 750-foot buildings and they would all look the same and be monotonous," Gould said. "A variable skyline will have beauty."

Gould has met with Dade Aviation Department director Richard H. Judy to discuss his Dupont Plaza buildings and the proposed tall-buildings zone.

"I can't imagine any circumstances under which the FAA would not approve" the tall-buildings zone, Goulds says. "It's being very well prepared."

But in a May 13 letter to Judy, FAA regional director Jonathan Howe declined to comment on the proposal. He reserved FAA right to review each proposed building as a separate case.

"The only... means we have to determine if any specific construction would be a hazard to air navigation is to study the proposal on its own individual merits," Howe wrote.

In addition, the tall-buildings zone would impair the functioning of airport radar in a 10-degree sector to the southeast of Miami International Airport, Howe pointed out.

"The FAA regards the navigable airspace as a limited national resource... ," Howe wrote.

"We must emphasize the need for protecting airspace and navigational facilities. Therefore, we do not wish to encourage the construction of any object which would place greater restrictions on the use of navigable airspace by aircraft."

The FAA's case-by-case review of proposals for buildings taller than 750 feet is stringent. The agency has already turned down a request by Gerald D. Hines Interests, Southeast's joint venture partner, to permit the Dupont Plaza banking center to have a height of 770 feet. The developers have asked the FAA to reconsider.

Carr, while conceding a "small impairment" of airport radar, says the tall-buildings zone would be a beneficial compromise between the interests of the airport, the developers and the FAA.

He is impatient with the FAA's attitude.

"They're so damn conservative that I wouldn't expect them to move forward aggressively on something that's to everybody's benefit," Carr says. The advantage of his proposal, he says, is that it limits tall buildings to a specific area.

The relationship between the FAA and the airport is an intricate one. The FAA has no power to enforce recommendations limiting the encroachment of buildings on approach and departure zones. Enforcement is carried out through Metro's zoning code, Carr said.

However, he added, the FAA can require pilots to adopt procedures to avoid obstacles. Those procedures can complicate takeoff and landing at an airport. The more turns a pilot has to make, the more time it takes.

If fewer planes can take off and land within a given period of time, an airport's capacity and profitability are affected.

According to Carr, the tall-buildings zone is part of a package that would have the over-all effect of toughening Metro's airport zoning ordinance. The current ordinance is based on FAA regulations drafted in the late 1960s that govern airport approach paths.

The amendment Carr is proposing would incorporate more restrictive, recent regulations that cover departure paths. The only exception to those regulations would be the tall-buildings zone.

"Certainly there's been pressure from specific developers" for a tall-buildings zone, "but this is all based on a very rational

study> of departure paths out of Miami International Airport," Carr said.

'THE MAXIMUM HEIGHT ALLOWED WILL BE 949 FEET'

noooooooooooooooooooooooooo

isn't this from the '80's,well thats miami for you they did the darn runway in such an angle that it affects downtown buildings.couldn't they do the runway so it affects coral gables or something or atleast move downtown north a couple of miles so that planes that land wouldn't pass through that zone,or maybe the planes could navigate through downtown.


dubai has 2 1400ft towers u/c while in miami were begging for an 800 ft stop hogging all the damn buildings dubai

oh well were just gonna have to be like sunny isles, just build a giant wall of 949 footers then we should have one tower that goes one foot higher than the limit at 950 feet loool,

lets first get an 800 footer,

im interested in that new project between boa and wachovia, could be it!

go kerry

I wonder what the limit outside of that sliver is? All the new Biscayne Blvd towers across from Bicentennial Park are outside of the "tall building zone". Actually it says the southern boundary is "appox. SE 14th ST", the Four Seasons is one block SOUTH of that at SE 14th Terrace.

screw kerry, go bush!

I wonder what the limit outside of that sliver is? All the new Biscayne Blvd towers across from Bicentennial Park are outside of the "tall building zone". Actually it says the southern boundary is "appox. SE 14th ST", the Four Seasons is one block SOUTH of that at SE 14th Terrace.

ah come on then, they dont give, i thought this was such a strict thing, that means that alotta these excuses are bullshit that they cant build higher are bullshit

darn by less than 1 block the faa stopped them from reaching the 900 foot that the 4 seasons was supposed,

still who knows maybe they changed the height limit and now its 800 feet, lol

it was never suppose to be 900ft

Four Seasons was originally planned for 900, then downsized to 849, and then to 789.

ah man, it was, i never new that, damn, i hate the FAA more than ever b4, wow, thats depressing to find out

yup then again millenium must have gotten a lil scared it coulda built it at 849 but still downsized it to 789,

darn!

it was suposed to be 900 feet at orignal plan

[QUOTE=MIAballinboi]i just remembered i have access to the miami herald database, which is from when the herald first started till now

LOOK WAT I FOUND

remember this is from the 80s

_____________________________-


This was the article that I remembered. There was a drawing showing the areas of the tall building zone. Does anyone have it? I guess I could go to microfilm and get it there now that I have the date of the article.

MIAballinboi--does your access to the data base include images? Can anyone access this data base?

Wow--I love this site!!!

I need to learn how to post images on this forum, Can anyone help me with this?

well now that bush won the economy will be at an all time low meaning no new construction thanks to that stupid country hick,was it me or what but bush won every state dats country or in the south ,although i don't consider florida country it has its hillbillie parts and then you have the stupid retarted cubans who vote for anyone republican as long as there not communist.

^it's ironic that in the same post in which you bash florida for having "hillbillie parts", you also find new ways to completely murder the english language. brilliant.

btw, the "stupid retarted cubans" comment isn't going to endear you to many people who post in VERY HISPANIC, SOUTH FLORIDA threads. just a little free advice for ya.

well now that bush won the economy will be at an all time low meaning no new construction thanks to that stupid country hick,was it me or what but bush won every state dats country or in the south ,although i don't consider florida country it has its hillbillie parts and then you have the stupid retarted cubans who vote for anyone republican as long as there not communist.

Say what you want about other parts of the economy, but construction, especially residential construction is booming. . .

As for the qeustion at hand - again I repaet, while anything is possible, I seriously doubt a real 1000 footer (sure you could get a "spire") in the next 15 years at least.

yea but if economy goes down construction prices will rise and less people will have money to buy condos.

p.s. 1st amendment freedom of expression,well i'll take back the stupid retarded part but everyone knows its true cubans vote for republicans 85% of the time,which is why mel martinez won

Uptown-Midtown you're an asshole.. First of all, Cubans don't vote for Republicans 85% of the time. What are you an idiot?? First of all, Cubans (along with other ethnic groups who have fled from opression) tend to vote Democrat, no explanation why, it just feels natural. Also, Cubans have evolved, so there is no longer a typical "Cuban". There are hip-hop cubans, rock-n-roll cubans, prep cubans, valley girl cubans, just like every other ethnic group that spends generations in America and of course there are Democrat Cubans and Republican Cubans.. I love the way you spew out numbers when they aren't true..percentages aren't opinions, they have to have proof to be true..

Anyway, you picked the completely wrong forum to discuss this seeing how this is a forum on development and urbanetics but you chose to discuss politics and insulting ethnic groups further cementing your reputation as an asshole...

p.s. Maube Mel Martinez won because she was a better candidate not because Cubans are mindless drones who vote Republican..

But again, wrong forum..

wait i know wrong forum to do this but im citing the herald on this one which said that 80+ percent cubans vote republican and also i heard many cuban saing that they were voting for mel because he was cuban and they wanted him to be the first cuban or hispanic in the senate

also i would like to say that i have no problems with cubans but the old cubans who fled cuba are the ones who most of the time vote republican because of kennedy,and because fidel was a leftist

Getting back on topic, I still think the I.M. Pei project could reach 1000. My thinkin is: since a 1000 foot building is just too much for the Miami market, a potential 1000 footer couldn't be just one thing (office,residential or hotel) for risk of flooding that individual market or not selling well.

Plus, the office market is'nt hot so a 1000 footer in that is a no-go. A 1000 footer in residential is out of the picture now. It could have been possible at the beginning of this first boom. But with all the residential towers a 1000 ft of residential would saturate that market too. Same with hotel.

Now if a building had all three it could reach 1000. Which is what the I.M. Pei people are doing, so it could very well reach 1000 ft if there aren't lazy.

yea it wont be residential or hotel because thats too much and you're right next to boa(illuminated),so i expect it to a mixed use 4 residential,comercial,office,hotel and probably parking under that'll be the only why it'll reach a 1000ft.

Your right 1 and only cuban, those coments could only come from a moron. But anyway I did vote for Bush.

P.S. You are not the only cuban here, jeje ;)

see exactly my point and i bet you voted for martinez without out really knowing what he was for

yes it was my vote for martinez that decided the election. It is all my fault. :)

i know you meant that sarcastically but officials shouldn't get elected because of their race,ethnic group, or sexual preference but wat they stand for. AGAIN I KNOW THIS IS THE WRONG PLACE TO TALK ABOUT THIS BUT I THINK ITS IMPORTANT

ok whatever, does anyone know when we might get some new info. on the pei/meier.oppen. project.

well now that bush won the economy will be at an all time low meaning no new construction thanks to that stupid country hick,was it me or what but bush won every state dats country or in the south ,although i don't consider florida country it has its hillbillie parts and then you have the stupid retarted cubans who vote for anyone republican as long as there not communist.

FUK U, U MOTHER FUKR! U DONT LIKE THE FUKIN CUBANS, GET THE FUK OUTTA MIAMI!

every cuban i no, votes because they no wat the fuk they are doing, and no the issues, and believe in who they are voting for, i dont no a single cuban (be it a member of my family, or a friend, or any1) that voted simply because they wanted a cuban in the senate... so dont talk fukin shit about people cause u dont agree wit them, ur lucky this is the internet, cause id fukin beat the shit outta u rite now u fukin punk ass bitch!

sry, but ignorant fuks that insult people is they dont agree wit them and make blind accusations piss me off, FUK U UPTOWN!

can you guys cut the crap, what is this now every thread is gonna be like this


dont mind them magic city,

well anyways, the sad part is that i dont have the access to the images, its an online miami herald newsbank thing and my school has the code so i can get in, but at the very bottom it would say something like "a rendering showing a map of the area"

but it doesnt have it, i guess it would be too much trouble to put every picture up.

but that microfim idea is awesome,

there are articles there that are very interesting regarding tall towers and cancelled towers and they have renderings cuz at the bottom it would say like "an artists rendering" but it woudlnt show it but if someone can have microfilm access,

there were like the original plans for the 900 foot 4seasons, but that probably looked the same just taller

then they had like a 72 story proposal for aventura once, 825 feet tall, that would be cool to find that rendering,

then plenty of like 60 and even 70 story towers in the 1980's proposals for new skyscrapers, 2 bad not alot of them formulated

and for the first time, i can help you post up your pictures if you have any

just email me to wrestlechamp316@bellsouth.net and ill take care of it,

to get some of those would be awesome

^yup it would have,
the proposals back then were even way bigger than the ones were getting now,

like 72 story 825 ft in aventura,

and someone has to remmber the twin 67 story towers on brickell,

then you had allot of like people planing an 849 footer in cbd, and 60 and 70 story towers

i can post these articles if we have a topic on the history or dead proposals, its interesting but wouldnt have that much of a point, cuz they wont come back or anything, theyre from the 80s yet it would be a history lesson

MIAballinboi:

Thanks for your email and posting the circa 1916 Miami pix on the Pre-1980 skyline thread. I have many other awesome pix that show the evolution of Miami's skyline and will post from time to time. I also have many images of projects that were never built (ie) Ron Fine's 1980's Freedom Tower Hotel Tower, Ted Goulds 1980's towers near Dupont plaza (would have been tallest in Tall Bldg Zone), 1940's Terminal Tower (WW II and Aviation's growth causualty-- it would have been iconic) and a wonderful future view from 1946 (Miami's 50th anniversary showing what they envisioned for the skyline in 1996) It turned out much bigger than they could imagine. I will dig them up, scan them and post them little by little. I think everyone will enjoy them. Since I am new to this forum, please bare with me as I am learning the ropes here.

I recently saw an article about the proposed buildings next to BOA, there was a crude sketch with the article. Has anyone seen any other images of this planned project?

Could this be the next tallest?

am - magic-city

MAGIC-CITY :) , Wow, WELCOME to the Florida Forums, and that GREAT INFO on the way back towers of Therodore ( TED ) Goulds. That Man was a Dreamer that didn't have enough money from the banks because of high Interest rates :bash: , He was also in the Dupont Plaza area with High building Height approvals from the City for paying the money for the Extinstion of the I-95 Ramps to Biscayne Bvld around his Office towers in Dupont plaza parking lots. He was quite a Developer that wanted to be The KING of Miami Towers :) . AGAIN Magic-City, WELCOME TO the Forum , and Make sure you VOTE on the POLL :) , at the Bottom of this FORUM, and a little bad luck on the Canes last week, BUT Anyway, GO CRANES !!! :cheers:

I Am Cuban and voted for John Kerry

Miami's economy does not follow the trends of the rest of the united states
we will have our tall buildings and alot more people will move here looking for jobs and looking for homes.

as for the economy, war, civil liberties in the USA and the ignorance shown by those who voted for this man all becuase they where blinded by the mention of moral issues and not by the true issues all i have to say is God Help Us.

and this coming from a liberal republican cuban who voted democrat because the world needed a change from this current us dictatorship we have going on now.

now please lets discuss skyscrapers

Nice, Rx - gratuitously insulting those with whom you disagree, then feigning the high ground by reminding us this is a skyscraper thread.

Now please lets discuss skyscrapers.

dale just for your info 1.5 million votes went uncounted in florida
100k in miami dade and 90k in broward county alone

political powers and pressure only lead to john kerry succession/surrender
america needs to move forward and cant remain devided so he did what was best give up the fight and meet the republicans half way and let george bush stay in office but when those true numbers come in you will see for yourself.
the palestinians are soon to wage war our numbers are weak i predict a hard 4 years ahead of us.

i support george bush becuase he is our president

i dont support his policys and frankly think he is a thief and liar and an idiot but still our president so lets move on and only hope for the best no one ever said politics where clean. its a dirty job, so lets not expect happy results.

atleast we have a common ground we all pay taxes we all voted and we all like skyscrapers.

so dale whatever reasons you had to vote are ok by me

doesnt make any difference to me based on results in the future i will most likely be happy for my decision and you will be upset with yours but still we will both be paying the tax bill on his mistakes hopefully hillary clinton will run for president in 2008 and i will vote democratic once again.

dale what do you think about the votes that where in a warehouse in broward hidden away?

and the computer glitch that started to count backwards in broward subtracting votes?

I'm not goingto get into this silly argument except to saythe obvious: I sincerely doubt tht teh DEMOCRATIC government (including Supervisor of Elections) of Broward County would go out of their way to hide DEMOCRATIC votes. If they did, then the Democrats have an even bigger problem than the election results.

Rx -

I didn't expect the dems to go down graciously. I fully expected to hear loud complaints of disenfranchisement and various and sundry wild conspiracy theories.

dale im republican and many other republicans know that the game we play in politics is very dirty

money is power

i make more then 200k a year so im republican by paycheck not by choice my heart will always be democratic.

i dont like bush or his family ex's great great grandmother is george bush great great grandmother so unfortunalty they are related. they have had ties with bin laden for years they have a history the bombing of sep 11th was actually bushs fault it was a friendship and business deal gone bad. later on in history in the future it will come out.

i would not have a problem voting republican but when you mix church and state that i have a problem with. thats why i voted democrat becuase the current agenda is based on the wishes of the conservative church followers not based on the real issues. so you can say all you want about democrats

but i as a true republican i have to say we have money and we have influence and we are sneaky without a doubt. this election is far from over you will see theres alot of things that will come out in the future.

Maybe you need to cut back on the meds.

if im mad or crazy then what the F@*k is george bush's excuse and in that case yours?

oh by the way nice comeback i asked you about the real issues when i spoke to you in one of the last forum posting before the election and not once did you tell me what good things goerge bush had done for the goverment or the economy? and likewise i never did expect for you to be informed now even after the elections.

for a person that is connected on the internet online with access to information you really seem to be closed minded and dont seem to retain much. but hey if religion couldnt influence or dupe its members there wouldnt be som many denominations as there are today.

in the name of the church we do many things even get duped into voting for the antichrist dressed in presidents garb namely G W BUSH...

for such a good christian hes such a good liar and thief but then again maybe it was a little white lie so its ok... right? or did we forget sin is sin and has no size in Gods eyes.

Dale the way this government is so devided i really see us having a civil war if this keeps up. things are very serious thats why john kerry stepped down
to try to gain unity. but with all this things coming up the media in the sake of drama will hype this up and seek blood and the democrats will push for impeechment and removal from presidency once all the facts come to the light. then we will have chaos and america will be devided even further and open for attack. we are one big dysfunctional family right now.

god help us all.

ohh by the way your not crazy just like im not crazy.
your just a religious fanatic from what i get from your postings but
dont worry your in america and i respect your ideals even though they might be misinterpreted some. unfortunatly they arent my ideals and half the countries so what should we do?

half of america should pack up cash out and move to canada and make it a great country surpassin the united states? all for one man? hmmm thats not a bad option they do have nice skyscrapers :)

'god help us all' ? I thought you were the strong believer in church-state separation.

i do believe in church state separation

my statement is an oxymoron " if you can read in between the lines"

i got tax breaks wow 3 percent but this war is costing me 6 percent so i loose twice what i got back. seriously a bad investment

the one thing GW BUSH could do for me as a republican is go to the United Nations and ask for help in the war then id be semi happy with his re election

but having him keep the same game plan thats not working! we are loosing this war and loosing our troops. and im loosing money becuase this war is going to be a costly thing seriously might be better living in canada might save alot more money.

hey they do have nice skyscrapers

Do you realized that at your income level you would have gotten soaked by your candidate, had he won ?

And how soon can you leave for Canada ?

Oh, and if you do go there, don't get sick. :)

WELCOME TO THE FORUM MAGIC CITY

cant wait for those renderings :)

im loosing more with bush in office then ive lost in the last 10 years of taxes

guys skyscrapers and thanks nimby for those kind words

Well, if the I.M. Pei building reaches 1000 ft or not it will sitll be an awesome building because it will be illuminated in classic I.M. Pei fashion. I wouldn't be suprised if this building became the icon of Miami (like the Empire State in New York, Sears Towers in Chicago,) just because of the Pei brother's international clout and fame. Did anybody see the entrance for the Louvre I.M. Pei designed with all the illuminated pyramids?..

Can't wait to see those renderings guys..

anytime you have more then 2 architects on one building it will be an icon
they arent going cheap on this one either

What makes any of you think that the new Pei project might be the tallest ?

Just curious.

What makes any of you think that the new Pei project might be the tallest ?

Just curious.
TRUE DALE :) , I still see MET 3 Being the Tallest Tower in MIami in 2010, I just can't wait to see it, MET 3 Will LIGHT UP MIAMI :cheers: When its Finished. Pei Loves Pie, lol. :runaway:

well it will atleast be higher than boa because the pei's want this to be the iconic tower of the future for miami,and they called the boa the original icon so i expect it to be atleast bigger than boa

cant wait for that design!

chuck, i thought u said met 3 wasnt going to be taller than 4seasons,

but hopefully it is!

cant wait for that design!

chuck, i thought u said met 3 wasnt going to be taller than 4seasons,

but hopefully it is!
YES MIAballinboi :) , VERY CLOSE and Yes , it will probably be Higher than the FOUR SEASONS at 800 FEET, MET 3 Will be AWESOME, we will Definitely Know For Sure in 3 Years, it should break Ground in LATE 2007, then we shall find out who the Winner is, on the TO TELL THE TRUTH show. :cheers:

Dale have you read the thread???!!! We think it might be a 1000-foot because its a mixed-use builiding and plus its going up (or being proposed) in that parcel without FAA height restrictions.

Suits me just fine.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v506/miami17/BOA20im20Pei20new20towers20design.jpg

Here is the conceptual design for the Pei Partnership any body else have any other drawings

That's not a 1,000 footer. More like 650.

My guess is next year. ;)

cool! this is what i was hoping for. they may not be 1,000 footers but at least they're office type towers. can't wait to see a more detaild rendering.

where'd you find this, magic-city?

dave, amen to that. miami needs more glass.

Very nice. It's not about height, it's about architectural image. Plus Miami need more glass. The last two glass buildings built are Espirito Santo Plaza and The Four Seasons and that is out of about 20 buildings completed in 5 years.

It ought to be a beauty. Can't wait to see the official renderings.

yeah, miami seriously needs more glass towers. these will really help. i wish they were right on biscayne blvd, though, instead of being somewhat buried behind b of a & wachovia. but, hey, beggars can't be choosers, right?

away i go to start my glass dance.

:banana: :cucumber: :carrot: :pepper: :horse: :dance2: :master:

good find magic city,

ok again sorry to be hatin once again but why do they look like arrows,and whats up with having the same height as boa
other than that 650ft is good although we were expecting 1000,and also the 1st office tower to be built will get more office tower projects rolling. we all know how 4 seasons got us the residential boom.

Everyone !, :) Lets think on the Bright Side of this Newest Design for This Huge parking Lot. It was supposed to be a twin -35 story condo buidings at least 6 months ago, Now its a 650-PLUS Foot Twin Condo Towers, I FEEL GREAT, That they the PEI PARTNERS at least have CHANGED THE OLD DESIGN :bash: for something Alot Higher than those two OLD UGLY Shorter Towers that were proposed 6 month ago, BE HAPPY !!!, that all these Towers are going up in MIAMI, NO MATTER WHAT THE HEIGHT, I'm Happy just to SEE MIAMI GROW :cheers: , To tell you the Truth, I'm losing Interest in seeing a 1,000 FOOT TOWER, of us all trying to agree IF THERE EVER BE ONE BUILT at 1,000 Feet, And to tell you ALL THE TRUTH, MIAMI might NOT Never see a 1,000 FOOT Tower since Those Planes Crashed Into Our Hearts On 9/11/01, A Date That Shall Live With Us For Infinity. :sleepy:

I like them even if there not 1000 ft. Plus, it looks like they'll be illuminated which is a big favorite for me. Chuck, I think there office towers not condos..

I like them even if there not 1000 ft. Plus, it looks like they'll be illuminated which is a big favorite for me. Chuck, I think there office towers not condos..
Well, 1 and Only Cuban :) , It Will Have to be a 100 STORY CONDO TOWER, To Be Built To Make IT at 1,000 Feet. TRUE :) , Since The 9/11/01, Interests in Tall Office TOWERS has LOST its PACE of Trying to BUILD THE TALLEST Office Tower in the United States. Hopefully the FREEDOM TOWER in New York City at the WTC Site Will Be Completed at 1,776 FEET, THE WORLD's TALLEST !!! :cheers:

its mixed use isnt it, so its not office or condo, but both, probably wit some hotel and retail mixed in

I know there are height limits for Miami, but is there an area in the central business district where there is unlimited height?

true chuck, the first proposals were very very ugly and short, it was like a ugly yellow color twin towers on that site, now its an improvement

this is the older proposal, yuck
http://mywebpage.netscape.com/BallinBoi316/02043Miacentralis1.bmp

take it off now,that looks like a building that should be built in the gables not in cbd
my eyes my eyes

who designed that thing because it couldn't of have been the pei's

TRUE Uptown-Midtown :) , That OLD Project Would FIT Perfect in Coral Gables, And that Gables is growing so fast, Their running out of Room. The PIE, lol or PEI Project Looks Interesting at the 650 Foot LEVEL, and YES about the NO HEIGHT LIMIT, its THE DUPONT PLAZA AREA, that has NO LIMIT from the FAA :bash: .

well the pei project is a long time for being started so lets just wait

well the pei project is a long time for being started so lets just wait
TRUE Uptown-Midtown :) , Its ONLY the Planning STAGE of this Project, It hasn't gone to the City of MIAMI, Yet, for a start. I see this breaking Ground about 2 years from now. :cheers:

so dupont has unlimited height chuck? so a 1000 footer is acceptable?? is this the only parcel of land with unlimited height?? how bout like where the sheraton is or miami circle?

www.500brickellcondo.com[/url]

nice....

ah, thats such a tease... lol... whens the real site gonna get here?

WOW ! It is amazing how this thread has meandered from my original question. Thanks to all of you who actully gave input to what I thought was a much needed topic to be addressed.

So sad to see all the name calling. I am also Cuban, who wants to see a 1000 footer. What does that make me???

Perhaps I should not post rhetorical questions, lest the insults begin...

Bendiciones, todo !

THE Embarcadero

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v506/miami17/tallbuildingzone.jpg

I was able to get this off the microfilm in the library today. Thanks to MiaBo for getting the date.

I am not sure if this was ever approved or if it's is still in effect. Perhaps someone knows.

If this is the case, we may never see a 1,000 footer in our downtown skyline.

Does anyone else have any up to date FAA restrictions?

AM magic-city

WOOW great find magic city!!!

i doon about this,

chuck, i know you know something bout this

the four season site says 650 on that map so definetly not accurate although if you follow the map then infinity would fall under that 650 zone so why was the four seasons allowed extra height?

if this is true then all the developers cant b/s bout the height limit, theyres alot of space that can accomodate 800 and even 900 footers!

current miami code is 500 units per acre and the taller you build the more expensive it becomes because you would need a special crane instead of the normal ones. and those are costly per week i think they run about 25-30k if im correct

Ok at least they are going to build something else but those 2 ugly yellow twin towers
and hopefully they'll go with a 1000 ft office tower, and of course all glass.

Guys, I spoke with a friend about the "FAA Height Restriction". He's been a commercial pilot in Miami for about 15 years...currently flying 747's all over the world, and he doesn't believe that there is a restriction anywhere. I didn't fist fight him over it, but he gave two dozen examples of airports where 1,000+ foot hazards exist even closer to airports than downtown Miami is to MIA. He also noted that Federal Aviation Administration shouldn't have juridiction over city zoning matters.
That Map is definitly a good find, but it says "Proposed" height restriction. Is it a fact that the proposal was ever enacted? And I'd be curious to know when.
I'm dying to know!

current miami code is 500 units per acre and the taller you build the more expensive it becomes because you would need a special crane instead of the normal ones. and those are costly per week i think they run about 25-30k if im correct
This seems to make more sense. I'm sure that if it were economically lucrative to build tall, they would. Cost, setbacks, and FAR limitations are more likely to be keeping the buildings under 1,000 ft than the FAA.

if thats tru, then all of these developers r bull shittin us, and just dont wanna go the extra height, bastards! lol

true, lets wish roarks reasoning works. comeon planes are thousands of feet higher and trained professionals fly em, no height restriction,

maybe they increased every height zone by 150 feet, so where the 4 seasons is is 800 foot zone and where the 949 zone is actually 1099, lol j/p

come on lets get us one of those mega hi office towers like the 80s they were popping out everywhere, maybe a sleek tall skiinny glass ofice tower wont interfere and if its angled the right way,
unlike if it was wide and monstrous like a wall,

build it in a way that the faa will accept!

WOOW great find magic city!!!

i doon about this,

chuck, i know you know something bout this
YES, MIAballinboi :) , I have this PIC in my old newspapers I saved from the 80's and Thats the MAP, COOL, Magic-City :) , Did you notice the Date on that Map ?
Did you Also Notice there's NO limit restriction in the Middle where the DUPONT PLAZA is ? :cheers:

actually there is a limit there 949 feet look again chuck!!!

everything in that area thats inside the 949 foot liine is 949 feet!

chuck u work for the county cant u just ask whoever it concerens if theres a darn restriction,

this thing is over 20 years old, its probably totaly rong anyway, we need to ask someone that knowSSS!!

who can we ask ? email the darn faa lool

TRUE MIAballinboi :) , Someone has to know THIS. I'll BET the restrictions are Higher NOW, it was 20 years old, Times have changed, and THE DUPONT TOWERS I'll bet Can GO higher if the Developer wanted too. :cheers:

right they can probably make em 2.5 times higher then this plan, only if it were office towers! comeon we need office towers we wait a year till we get a good tallll new tallest or alsmost 800 foot residential, yet if it was office boom we would be getting all these proposals like in the 80s lool, comeon office boom!!! quick

MIAballinboi :) , OFFICE TOWERS, I WISH, but guess WHAT !, its SAD, but the Vacancy RATE is Going up in office Towers in the Central Downtown Area, and More Headquarters are moving West of the AIRPORT and North of the Airport in the BEACON Industrial PARKS , its only CONDO FEVER :cheers: in Downtown MIAMI, Office development has taken a turn for the Worst since 9/11/01, A date which will live with us for Infinity, its sad to say, But its TRUE, sorry. :sleepy:

aaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, dats it
the 99% chance of a 1000 footer would HAVE TO BE OFFICE, nothin residential can just make it pass that mark unless with a 200 foot spire, u see chicago and waterview, how tough it was and it barely got it approved at over 1000 feet thats chicago, but this is miami, and if we have a chance its wit office!!!

comeon hurry up bor, carbonell, park place, we need u to fill up the city with hungry for jobs executives and buisness people to make the OFFICE TOWERS LOOl

BUT Remember MIAballinboi :) , IT Has to be a 90 STORY PLUS Office TOWER to Reach the MAGIC CITY HEIGHT of 1,000 FEET, and that will be BEYOND 2020, in MY DREAMS of Living Tall Buildings , I see it in the FUTURE As being Called the " CODINA TOWER " :) , lol. For this Man , Armando Codina Loves to Build Office and Commericial PARKS all Around Miami-Dade County, THE CODINA CONSTRUCTION Signs Are everywhere, Him and Jeb Bush are connected somehow with the BEACON GROUP thats also building the NEW RYDER HEADQUARTERS in FAR Northwestern Miami-Dade County off the Turnpike and N.W. 106 street. :cheers:

YES, MIAballinboi :) , I have this PIC in my old newspapers I saved from the 80's and Thats the MAP, COOL, Magic-City :) , Did you notice the Date on that Map ?
Did you Also Notice there's NO limit restriction in the Middle where the DUPONT PLAZA is ? :cheers:


Date of the article and map was 10-14-1982

What really will determine if we will get a tower approaching 1,000 feet is the market. When demand merits new class A office towers, perhaps the next tallest will be built, especially since most good parcels are being taken by residential towers, they will have no other choice but to build tall. I think that one day they will knock down the old Miami National Bank (SE Bank) to make way for the tallest building in Miami. This building is now about 50 years old and in a prime location. Maybe in the next 10 years this will be feasible. Just a thought and a wish for the next tallest in the center of the skyline.

AM

MAGIC-CITY :) , Thanks for that DATE, it keeps me from looking through my old dusty newspapers I save, I'm surprise I don't start a fir heree in my house, lol. And YES in about 10 to 15 YEARS :) I see more old buildings coming down to make wave for that DREAM COME TRUE of a 1,000 FOOT OFFICE TOWER, but it will Never be a CONDO TOWER at that Height, Because it will have to be 100 STORIES and I doubt that in MIAMI., I'm sorry I had to say That, I know everyone is trying to see a 1,000 Footer Sooner.I sure Wish it was sooner, But cheer up, WE'RE still GROWING and Growing STRONG, MIAMI's FOR ME !!! :cheers:

i told you guys with bush as president more companies are going to keep going bankrupt and more are going to move.

As you like to say, get off the politics.

I read all of your posts almost daily but never have the time to actually post something, but today I have some free time. Well, I also hope that Miami will on day get a 1,000 foot tower. I'll even take a 750 foot tower with a 250' spire, I don't care as long the actual structure is 1,000'. But there might be another problem besides the FAA and the market conditions, and that's actually building it.

I work in construction, and I know that in order to support the enormous load that such a tall building would impose on the ground, the actual foundation work would be something that would really push the limits of what our sandy florida soil can support. Almost all buildings here in Florida over 3 or 4 stories are actully built on piles (long round concrete columns) that are driven into the ground with an auger attached to a crane and pumped with concrete (like the ten museum park jobsite) anywhere from 30 to even 70 or 80 feet down in order to reach the actual limestone rock that will support the structure well below the surface. Most of the soil here in Florida is sand and muck for about the first 20 - 30 feet or so, depending on the location. After the first 20-30 feet usually lies the limestone rock. The larger the load, the deeper and bigger the reinforced concrete piles have to be. Sooner or later, the required size of the piles will exceed what can actually be built.

Another challenge would be the dewatering, which means basically removing the ground water from the huge hole in the ground that would be part of the foundation work, similar to that jobsite in downtown dadeland, but to a much larger degree. The water table here sits only about 5 feet below the surface, depending on the time of year, so imagine if you're digging down 30 or 50 or even 80 feet down the amount of water that would have to be removed.

I'm not an expert, and I'm not saying that it can't be done, but from what I know, it's definitely not going to be easy. Hopefully some structural engineer out there will think of an easier or a better way to build such a tall structure here in Florida. If they can build one close to 800' as is the 4 Seasons Tower, then 200' more hopefully shouldn't make much more of a difference. There's always hope!

WOW JR :) , WELCOME to the FLORIDA Forum :) , Make SURE you VOTE on the Favorite CITY POLL :) , Below. YES, I agree with YOU, about THE FOUNDATIONS that ahve to be done for these TALL Miami TOWERS to reach a 1,000 FOOT LEVEL.
ITS TRUE, I've BEEN and SEEN the ROUND Concrete Barrels, 4 feet in RADIAS at the QUANTUM Condo TOWER SITE at 19th STREET and BAYSHORE DRIVE, Its UNBELIEVABLE how Much IT TAKES to PUT in a FOUNDATION for a 600 - PLUS FOOT TOWER, You have to SEE IT , to Believe IT, and its been OVER a Month and their still putting the Foundation in with these HUGE CRANES Pounding :bash: these ROUND looking DRUMS with 50FT long REBARS Driving :bash: them into the GROUND and pouring CONCRTETE down into the CENTER of the EARTH.
COULD YOU IMAGINE if that was a 1,000 FOOT TOWER, it would take OVER 4 months , JUST to put the Foundation in,, :bash: , ITS TRUE, its alot of TIME AND MONEY , just to START a TALL TOWER. I also WATCHED the 55- STORY WACHOVIA Financial CENTER Tower back in the Early 1980's Foundation GO IN, and IT TOOK awhile TOO, also with HUGE ROUND Foundation TUNNELS driving :bash: REBARS 4 feet round in radius 55 ft. into the Ground. :cheers:

Thanks Chuck. We should start a special forum just for Miami and seperate it from the Florida forum, since it seems like most of the topics in the Florida forum are about Miami. I would definitely vote for that!

whoa great point JR,but since i don't know much about foundations i'm totally lost.

Well I tried to simplify it as much as possible without writing a textbook. The bottom line is that the ground here in Florida isn't like the ground in New York or Atlanta or just about anywhere else that has taller buildings, so building tall skyscrapers here is always going to be more difficult than in almost any other place in the US, plus our stupid airport is conveniently located close enough to downtown that the FAA brutally cuts down the height on almost all the proposed tall buildings, so you see Miami in particular is at a disadvantage compared to alot of other cities. But hey, when there's millions to be made in developing tall new condos, there's always going to be people willing to try to overcome these obstacles.

thanks for putting it in stupid terms for me,i'm not being sarcastic although it sounds like it.i'm just not very smart.

thanks for putting it in stupid terms for me,i'm not being sarcastic although it sounds like it.i'm just not very smart.
UPTOWN-MIDTOWN :) , ITS ok, Man, I'm NOT PERFECT either, I make LOTS of Mistakes and I'm SLOW at times to even atClose to 50, I need Glasses now, so " DON'T WORRY , BE HAPPY " :) , its in all of us. No One is really HUMAN SMART, lol. :cheers:

na uptown is smart n str8, i like how he will defend our great city in the city vs city threads, where they try to compare lil citys to MIAMI.!! lol

thanks

no prob, lool nice avator

I personally don't think people are smart or stupid, it's just a matter of ho much they know about things. Just because you might not know alot about construction doesn't make you stupid. There are alot of things I don't know, but just because I'm ignorant about them doesn't make me stupid, just ignorant!

Well getting back to the topic of a 1000' tower for Miami, I think somebody with enough money and power will make it happen one day. They're going to have to know the right people in the FAA to get it approved somehow, and enough money to take such a big risk. I think our only hope now is this proposed 80 story tower on Watson Island that I've been reading about here. I hope that gets approved and moves forward.

i have to object to the previous post

first florida bedrock is limestone which is the same exact material used to make concrete

yes our water table is low but its not any different then anywhere else in america in boston they drive piles and in newyork they do the same even in cuba they drive piles china and japan recently do it also.

the WTC in nyc had a huge slurry wall built around it to form a basin to keep the water out using the same techniques we used here on downtown dadeland.

bottom line it comes down to the type of concrete used, the cost, and the amount of time the cranes are needed when you cut your cost there then everyhing else is economically feasable.

i see miami developers going to the planning board by 2007-2008 with recommendations for a 1000ft office tower. by then most project will be completed or almost coming online where the need for office space will be justifiable enough without having an adverse affect on leasing in other properties.

actually by 2010 miami and ftlauderdale should have about 2-4 million new residents living in our counties and thats only going by our current growth rate which will be changing dramatically since most baby boomers in nyc are about to retire and are looking for property in sunny south florida.

and why would they live in north florida? becuase most NY's are liberal thats why it was 84% kerry 16% bush in nyc

dade broward and west palm went to kerry really shows we are on the same page as nyc when it comes to the real issues.

Gratuitous (and inane) political argument aside, I fing your post encouraging.

WOW RX, HOW are we going to handle 2-4 MILLION More Smart or Stupid Residents Living in 2010 in Our Two Already Crowded Counties ? LOL. :cheers:

www.miamisunpost.com has an article on increasing downtown development to accomodate all the future growth in Miami.

and why would they live in north florida? becuase most NY's are liberal thats why it was 84% kerry 16% bush in nyc

dade broward and west palm went to kerry really shows we are on the same page as nyc when it comes to the real issues.
Just in case you missed it....most of Europe is Liberal.
The US is the first country in the world with a successful representative republic. IN THE WORLD.

Since 1776, we have become a sustainable world power and put a man on the moon.
That's 228 years for those of us that went to public schools. What has Liberalism done for you lately?

Liberalism is not the recipe for successful achievments of individual grandeur.

Back on topic: Quick, name the first Liberal or Socialist country to build a skyscraper.

They don't do things like that!!!

Here is to Capitalism!!! Here is to the Sears Tower, Daniel Burnham, WTC, and the United States of America! And HERE is TO the SUPERbowl in 2007! If Antonio Gaudi were alive today, he would live in Miami. :cheers: NYC is beautiful because the liberals only moved in recently!

Rx, I know that Florida bedrock is limestone, and that is what I said in my previous post, and yes I know that it is used to make concrete. Our water table here is actually high as I had said before, not low, meaning that it lies only a few feet below the surface instead of 10' or 20' down, if it was to be lower. I'm not a geologist or anything but I know that the bedrock in other places like NYC isn't limestone and it isn't as far down as it is here, meaning that you would't have to dig down as far to reach the bedrock in order to install the reinforced concrete piles as you would here in Florida. Also, even though limestone is strong, there are other types of rock that are stronger that lie beneath the ground in other places. And yes, I know that the slurry wall technique is an option to control water intrusion while doing fondation work, as is using sheet piles or any other technique. And yes, I know that piles are used in other places for foundations and not just here.

The point I was trying to make is that a 1000' tall building can definitely be built here, but that it might be a little more difficult to do here in Florida than in other cities, that's all. Sorry for getting a little off the topic...

Hey JR you are right on topic!
Your insight is appreciated very much. There is no better place to post your knowledge than here in the "When will MIA...1,000 footer" forum.
Thanks.

actually its easier to build in miami then in any other places since our bedrock is about only 7-14 ft in depth the only reason they dig in deeper is to stabalize the building to its foundation better otherwise its not really necesarry

try building in japan or china where the land liquifys after every earthquake and moonson.

and nyc has the hardest bedrock in the us which makes it harder to dig into

THE TALLEST ONE is going UP FIRST !!!, END OF STORY.

King of Miami [11-11] www.miamisunpost.com

Unintended Consequences in Miami

Seems like the developers, trying to maximize the project for the highest financial gain, dug down three floors into the reef rock so they could have all the parking underground. However, one little thing got in the way.

By Jack King
Columnist



Our good Miami Mayor Manny Diaz is sure pumping up the volume when it comes to development in Miami. No doubt he feels that the best way to pay the bills of the city is to increase the tax base without increasing the tax rate. Sort of a way to get your cake without having to pay for it. However all good, free things seem to have a hitch that we never think about until after we are there. I like to refer to this as the law of unintended consequences.

The first of these is more internal than external, meaning it affects the developers more than the citizenry. For those of you who travel through the Grove, you might notice a rather large hole in the ground where the Grove’s best watering hole used to be, the Taurus. It is now on its way to becoming a very large and very obtrusive condo development.

Seems like the developers, trying to maximize the project for the highest financial gain, dug down three floors into the reef rock so they could have all the parking underground. That makes for more condos above ground – and more profit. However, one little thing got in the way. The rock under Coconut Grove is an oolite reef and is very porous. That means lots of water, and as they dug down, the water kept coming in. They pumped and it came. They pumped and it came. And on and on.

Now that we are in the dry season they decided to continue pumping and just start pouring concrete until the water stopped coming. Unfortunately for the developer, their weather guy wasn’t so good and when they started pouring concrete the rains came. And came. And came… to the tune of some five inches. Licking their wounds, the developers decided to retreat from Mother Nature and rethink the project. So, right now we have a rather large hole in the ground, complete with water. It is being called the Taurus Swimming Pool by the locals.

Now you would think that smart developers would do a little homework before they started something this large. If they had, they would have found out that this is not the first time developers have had this issue. About 20 years ago, a development next to the Mayfair called Grove Square had a similar situation. That project was to be built on concrete caissons pounded into the ground. After excavating down 20 feet with four feet of water around them, they set up the first caisson and hit it once. The entire 65-foot long, two-foot square hunk of pre-stressed concrete disappeared into the ground. Perplexed engineers couldn’t figure out what happened. So, they moved over 30 feet and did it again. That one also disappeared after one hit.

Turns out that the developers had found a soft spot in the reef, also known as a sinkhole. They stopped pounding and rethought the project and a week later came back with Plan B. One night they started pumping out the water with dozens of high volume sump pumps. When the water got very low they started pumping in concrete. And they beat Mother Nature at her own game. Sort of.

Even though they were successful in sealing out the water, they had inadvertently built what amounted to a concrete boat. Now every year during the very high spring tides and rainy season, the building actually floats. You can see the cracks in the top corners of the structure due to the movement that have been repaired year after year. And again no one learned. Six years ago when the Ritz Carlton project got underway, which is right down the street from Grove Square, they had the same issues.

However, the Ritz Carlton was so massive in volume that the 30-foot hole that was dug for the three floors of parking could never be pumped out, no matter how many pumps they brought in. And that displeased the contractor, which reputedly had some mob connections in the Northeast who were used to getting their way. There is a story that one of the contractors was so incensed about the water issue that he got very drunk at the former Tigertail lounge across the street and walked over to the huge, wet pit and emptied his gun into the water at four in the morning.

Cooler heads finally prevailed and the contractor filled in ten feet of the hole and settled for two floors of parking underground. They did so by telling the city they would lower the green roof to accommodate the change. They city agreed, but the top of the buildings still look like the renderings and I’m not sure the city ever measured the building after construction. They know about the unintended consequences rule when you are dealing with guys named Guido.

ROARK :) , Thats THE MAIN MAN, THE KING MANNY DIAZ, ONE CITY, ONE FUTURE, lol. :cheers:

heh,heh, grove square floats during the rainy season. now that's funny. hell of a job, there, developers!

good article, roark.

funny!

Very interesting. That's exactly why there aren't many basements or too much underground parking here...water problem! Of course, if a 1000' tall building would be built, I'm sure the developers would be smart enough to stay away from digging too far down for that extra parking.

i go 2 skol across the street from grove garden and pass by the construction every day, i was wondering why there was about 10 feet of water in that massive gaping hole, figured it was some wired innovative contruction technique, lol... but recently all the waters out and the bottom is cememented, and theyres equipment sittin on it, so i guess they got past this, i should taken some pictures when it was filled with water, it was a pretty funny site

ONE MIAMI :) , ONE CITY :) , ONE FUTURE :), ONE 1,000 FOOTER :) , lol.

www.miamisunpost.com has an article on increasing downtown development to accomodate all the future growth in Miami.
EVERYONE :) !!!, SUNPOST UPDATE, Click on it , the WEBSITE HERE , NOvember 24th, 2004 :cheers:

The YEAR 2022 :) , A YEAR that Will LIVE in MIAMI :) in the Tallest TOWER Ever Built At 1,044 Feet, 100 Storys to be TOLD !!! :cheers:

lets see about that.. how do you know all the specific height and storeys??? loool

tallest tower ever built chuck,i think you might have to change that height to 3000 feet since dubai has a 2500 ft tower under construction

No, really guys... I think there will be an inordinate number of PROPOSED MIAMI's TALLEST and/or 1,000 PLUS FOOTERS Proposed in the upcoming years. There are TOO MANY developers and architect firms and visionaries for it NOT to happen. Why do you think Chicago got the Sears Tower? It started with the Prudential Bldg. in the early '60's and Marina City. Then, The First Nat'l Bank and John Hancock at the end of the SIXTIES. Then, the Standard Oil and Sears by 1973-'74. And then, there were some scattered scrapers until the LATE EIGHTIES which brought us the 311 South Wacker, AT&T, Two Prudential, 900 N. Michigan, etc. The last few brought us the Park Hyatt and now, the Trump and the other residential tower in the Loop.

uptown, that dubai tower wont b bigger than proposed freedom tower in new york tho rite?

^yes

uptown, that dubai tower wont b bigger than proposed freedom tower in new york tho rite?


FREEDOM TOWER IS NOT EVEN CLOSE,WELL RITE NOW THE WHOLE PROJECT IS A BIT SUSPICIOUS BECAUSE NO ONE WANTS TO GIVE AN EXACT HEIGHT BUT S.O.M SKIDMORE OWENS MERRILL(FAMOUS ARCHITECTS EX.SEARS TOWER)SAY THAT ITS GOING TO BE AT LEAST 805M 2559.9FT AND CAN BE INCREASED AT ANY TIME TO INSURE THAT IT WILL BE THE WORLDS TALLEST BUILDING .WHILE FREEDOM TOWER ALSO DESIGNED BY S.O.M IS GOING TO BE 560M 1776FT.ALSO THE GROUP BUILDING BURJ DUBAI IS CALLED EMMAAR WHICH HAS A BUNCH OF RICH BASTARDS WHO DON'T CARE IF THE LOSE MONEY AS LONG AS THEIR TOWER GETS WORLD RECOGNITION.ALSO BUILDING IN DUBAI IS CHEAPER THAN BUILDING IN OTHER PLACES.SO IN CONCLUSION THE BURJ DUBAI CAN PISS ON THE FREEDOM TOWER

http://img64.exs.cx/img64/5843/Z3.th.jpg (http://img64.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img64&image=Z3.jpg)
http://img68.exs.cx/img68/6900/Z7.th.gif (http://img68.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img68&image=Z7.gif)
HERES A MODEL OF WHAT THEY WOULD LOOK LIKE SIDE TO SIDE INCLUDING FOUR SEASONS SCALE EQUALS I-I=100FT
BURJ- FRTO-FOUR SEASONS MIAMI
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ALSO-all are in dubai
1.2500-3000FT Burj Dubai
2. 2700FT Palm Jebel Ali (estimate)
3. 2400FTThe Pinnacle #1
4. 2400FT The Pinnacle #2
5. 2219FT The Pinnacle #3

whoa dubai is great they have like 200 buildings u/c and 20 over 1,000.

ALSO-all are in dubai
1.2500-3000FT Burj Dubai
2. 2700FT Palm Jebel Ali (estimate)
3. 2400FTThe Pinnacle #1
4. 2400FT The Pinnacle #2
5. 2219FT The Pinnacle #3

whoa dubai is great they have like 200 buildings u/c and 20 over 1,000.


Who's buying all those condos? who's renting all those offices?
There's nothing on this planet that will make me go any near the middle east.

dubai is generally considered to be very safe, and is one of the most important, if not the most important economic city in all of the middle east

but lots of cities are important economic engines, i dont understand the massive interest in dubai, perhaps zoning laws are non existant and they have loooooots of big open lots for big buildings

would b great to see some more renderings for what will apparently become one of the world's leading skyscraper cities

ok back to the aubject any news on the pei project

America could learn lessons from U.A.E. Slash taxes. Lay waste to regulations.

And America will boom as never before.

Never happen though.

ok back to the aubject any news on the pei project
TRUE Uptown-Midtown :) , We need more News on this PROJECT !!! :)

America could learn lessons from U.A.E. Slash taxes. Lay waste to regulations.

And America will boom as never before.

Never happen though.
Slash Taxes? UAE's goverment gets all its $$$ from Oil, and the US, taxes... If we had oil, we could!

America will boom again like it did in the 60s-80's, its just China's turn right now...

Slash Taxes? UAE's goverment gets all its $$$ from Oil, and the US, taxes... If we had oil, we could!

America will boom again like it did in the 60s-80's, its just China's turn right now...

Slash taxes anyway. Dynamic as American real estate is, it could be so much stronger.

i think the time of americas dominance in the world is past, its a move even playin field now, and gettin more so every day, america will never run the world by its balls like it used to