I am going to give some informations about Kurds According to Turkish Sources you can look at them


This map was made Mahmud al-Kashgari in 1074
Look at the map you can see middle east ( Erdul Ekrad ) in Arab
ic Country of Kurds

Source http://tr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kâşgarlı_Mahmud

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bc/Kashgari_map.jpg

http://i752.photobucket.com/albums/xx167/SecularSaracen/map1-1.jpg

http://i29.tinypic.com/15pj3fm.jpg


The map of Ottoman Empire was made in 1893 during Abdul Hamid II
There is Kurdistan If you Arabic alphabet There is wide land called Kurdistan It means that Kurdistan was present before Turkey


Source http://tr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osmanlı_İmparatorluğu

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5b/Osmanli_Ortadogu.jpg

http://i752.photobucket.com/albums/xx167/SecularSaracen/map3.png

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fd/Osmanlimap1893.jpg

I think a political thread under the "baghdad cafe forum" may be more appropriate than the pictures forum since I can expect this thread to attract quite a heated debate!!

this proves those people wrong that rant about and say "Kurdistan never existed and that they came form the space" . well done bro some more truth about of our ancestors land in the region. this has to be shown to countries like US EU and UNs it a good start for the Kurdish cause as a whole.

so is Mahmud al-Kashgari a kurd or an Arab :)

lool the maps still stay welayat al mosul , welayat baghdad and welayat al basrah ...and kurdistan in those 3 welayats ...
+ ive also seen in many maps tht the full gulf cost is Welayat al Basrah ! i thnk its also their in ur map ... but too bad we dnt have tht big basrah anymore ! :(

not to mention the difference between 'geographical entity" above like "syria" which actually covers multiple wilayets including haleb, sham, quds... which are today split into several countries (sham and haleb - syria), with quds split between israel and jordan.

But of course using the logic above all should belong to "Syria" since the levant area was called that :D

nd btw , Erbil , Sulaimaniya and Duhok are all in welayat al Mosul lol

and Amidiya is part of wilayet van? we should give it back to turkey?

i also noticed that Gaza was not part of quds. so it really belongs to Egypt. wow. i never knew that.

wilayet beirut is interesting. so lathiqiya in syria belongs to it?

Thats Iraq ... the difference now is that they took Areas from us in the gulf like Kuwait and the Coast .. and gave us parts from the Arabian desert which r saudi lands -.- seriously screw UK for tht -_-
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/hs021.snc6/165124_483847101793_614076793_6073966_7077069_n.jpg

btw can u DELETE the HUGEEEEEEE pic pls ! u already put there in a small size !
nd its also there in my reply ! :)

This thread can be continued on the specific "Kurdistan Politics" over on the Baghdad cafe sub-forum.

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1292751

this proves those people wrong that rant about and say "Kurdistan never existed and that they came form the space" . well done bro some more truth about of our ancestors land in the region. this has to be shown to countries like US EU and UNs it a good start for the Kurdish cause as a whole.

so is Mahmud al-Kashgari a kurd or an Arab :)

He was an Uighur Turk

Anyway, the region known as Kurdistan is a geographical not political entity, just like Turkestan (which is a generic term used to name a specific geographic region, not a previously existing state).

PS: BTW, I thought everyone already knew that the region was historically called Kurdistan :dunno:

yeah i wasn't referring to any member on here , i have seen people say that in other websites like militaryphoto and political forum. not here tho i should have emphasized on that. my bad

also it was a region yes not a state i agree also but there has been recent Kurdish states few times not under "kurdistan" though but those people say "even kurdistan region" doesnt exist and that kurds came from Russia and Turks call kurds in turkey mountain turks even though they were there before turks.

yeah i wasn't referring to any member on here , i have seen people say that in other websites like militaryphoto and political forum. not here tho i should have emphasized on that. my bad

also it was a region yes not a state i agree also but there has been recent Kurdish states few times not under "kurdistan" though but those people say "even kurdistan region" doesnt exist and that kurds came from Russia and Turks call kurds in turkey mountain turks even though they were there before turks.

There were Kurdish-Turkish ruled emirates, but they were Muslim emirates usually Kurdish-Turkish alliance border states at the periphary of the Byzantine Empire (Ghazza states used to wage Jihad on the Christians) as well as Turkish-Kurdish-Armenian, as well as Kurdish-Armenian alliance states. Before that the region was ruled by various nations extending from the Persians, to Byzantines to the Arab Dynasties, etc. Also I think there was a brief Kurdish state in N.Iraq formed by Barzani's father, but I'm not sure.

The mountain Turk thing existed for only a brief period, and then it was dropped because even those who coined the term knew that it was unrealistic.

PS: This is the first time I heard that there are people claiming that Kurds came from Russia, interesting :)

PPS: The Ottomans recognised the Kurds (Ekrad) as a distinct people native to the region. Also the first Kurdish uprisings in Turkey were to reinstate the Ottoman Caliphate, not to form an independent country (that's why they were known as the Sharia army, not Kurdish army).

yeah i wasn't referring to any member on here , i have seen people say that in other websites like militaryphoto and political forum. not here tho i should have emphasized on that. my bad

also it was a region yes not a state i agree also but there has been recent Kurdish states few times not under "kurdistan" though but those people say "even kurdistan region" doesnt exist and that kurds came from Russia and Turks call kurds in turkey mountain turks even though they were there before turks.
We owe this 80's junta.

We owe this 80's junta.

yes, and the majority of Turks as a people in general have never had problems with Kurds, that is why intermarriage is very high. my Aunt on my dad's side for example is married to a Kurd who is from a very powerful Kurdish family in Diyarbakir (not Turkified Kurds, but the real deal). And my uncle on my mom's side is married to an Alevi Kurd from Kars, despite my family being sunni Turks on both sides.

There were Kurdish-Turkish ruled emirates, but they were Muslim emirates usually Kurdish-Turkish alliance border states at the periphary of the Byzantine Empire (Ghazza states used to wage Jihad on the Christians) as well as Turkish-Kurdish-Armenian, as well as Kurdish-Armenian alliance states. Before that the region was ruled by various nations extending from the Persians, to Byzantines to the Arab Dynasties, etc. Also I think there was a brief Kurdish state in N.Iraq formed by Barzani's father, but I'm not sure.

The mountain Turk thing existed for only a brief period, and then it was dropped because even those who coined the term knew that it was unrealistic.

PS: This is the first time I heard that there are people claiming that Kurds came from Russia, interesting :)

PPS: The Ottomans recognised the Kurds (Ekrad) as a distinct people native to the region. Also the first Kurdish uprisings in Turkey were to reinstate the Ottoman Caliphate, not to form an independent country (that's why they were known as the Sharia army, not Kurdish army).

Yeah the kurdish 'leaders' sheiks after WW1 were a bunch or restarted twats! we have only them to blame for not having a country today, but I don't look at the past too much, the future is what counts.

Off course not all religious leaders are stupid, for example saladin did very well for himself, however kurdish leaders after WW1 were retarded, and there is no hiding it.

Yeah the kurdish 'leaders' sheiks after WW1 were a bunch or restarted twats! we have only them to blame for not having a country today, but I don't look at the past too much, the future is what counts.

Off course not all religious leaders are stupid, for example saladin did very well for himself, however kurdish leaders after WW1 were retarded, and there is no hiding it.

not quite as retarded as the shia sheikhs and ayatollahs of southern Iraq, who spent 80 years in servitude to a small minority :nuts:

not quite as retarded as the shia sheikhs and ayatollahs of southern Iraq, who spent 80 years in servitude to a small minority :nuts:

Although with kurdistan where kurds form a majority, I suppose it would have posed a threat to the west, becuase:-

-It would have had big gas/oil reserves
-It would have had a lot of water (see Turkey)
-Quite a decent population today, without all the genocide/killing that kurds have gone through.
-Decent sized country.

The above it not very much liked by the west, and so a combination of the above and stupid leaders is what made us end up where we are today.

Yeah the kurdish 'leaders' sheiks after WW1 were a bunch or restarted twats! we have only them to blame for not having a country today, but I don't look at the past too much, the future is what counts.

Off course not all religious leaders are stupid, for example saladin did very well for himself, however kurdish leaders after WW1 were retarded, and there is no hiding it.

Saladin was a military general, not a sheik

Saladin was a military general, not a sheik

I said, religious leaders as in someone highly influenced by Islam, though most of his generals etc were kurds too.

Although with kurdistan where kurds form a majority, I suppose it would have posed a threat to the west, becuase:-

-It would have had big gas/oil reserves
-It would have had a lot of water (see Turkey)
-Quite a decent population today, without all the genocide/killing that kurds have gone through.
-Decent sized country.

The above it not very much liked by the west, and so a combination of the above and stupid leaders is what made us end up where we are today.

i also blame shitless Kurdish sheikhs for this matter for praising Islam and looking up to ottoman empire . but for west not wanting to have a great Kurdistan for reasons mentioned but so is Iran and they didn't oppose this in there case ??

also turknology , you said kurdistan was only a region in that map yes but so were lots of other regions that exist and didnt exist that are now countries like turkey Iran and so on . they were also regions now countries .

^^

Turkey and especially Iran were both parts of political entities that changed their regime, that is a big difference.

The point here is, some people try to show it as if Kurdistan was a self ruling political entity that got invaded and is now under occupation. you know that this is totally untrue.

About being a country in the future, well, I personally see it as inevitable that in the future the KRG will declare independance from Iraq, it is already run more or less like an independant country rather than an autonomous region.

But Greater X, Greater Y type ideals have never worked in the past and thus nations today have to be content with what they have got, and so will Kurdistan have to be if they become an independant state in N.Iraq in the future.

PS: For example, this is the region historically known as Macedonia:

http://www.historyofmacedonia.org/ConciseMacedonia/images/map_of_macedonia.jpg

This on the other hand is FYR Macedonia:

http://i.infoplease.com/images/mmacedon.gif

It is easy to draw parallels between the 2 situations.

i agree with you i dont see the idea of a greater Kurdistan happening anytime soon . kurdistan in Iraq is like a state within in state already only missing a seat in UN. as for when and how its gonna happen i think KRG knows better .

im more with a small Kurdistan for now and lets say when kurdistan becomes an independent state in the future and then if turkey or Iran 'which seems unlikely' but let just assume they would like to let go of their Kurdistans lol then it will merge with Kurdistan independent state , but i dont know how they would give up land that easily maybe ? in iran maybe with the current sich and if one day its attacked the Kurdistan their could break away ?

i know kurds in iran and turkey want the same thing as kurds in iraq , but for kurds in Syria there is 1 option "run" :lol:. as a matter of fact lots of kurds from syria flee to the KRG these days and ask for asylum :)