I have noticed that south Charlotte is much bigger than north Charlotte is, and that it has many more roads and better road systems than north Charlotte. Can anyone explain why Charlotte developed this way? Also, I know the city wants to run trains to UNCC years down the road. thing is, is that I can not imagine trains running through the most suburban part of the city? Although I can say I rode the buss from UNCC to uptown a few times.....and it takes around an hour ride, its the longest ride in CATS I have heard. Although I have to admit, having trains in NoDa would be nice! :colgate:

I wouldn't call east/northeast Charlotte the most suburban part... that label belongs to south Charlotte. The N Tryon corridor is sort of like old-school gritty sprawl, and the hope is that TOD (transit oriented development) will transform it into a cool strip.

I've also wondered about South Charlotte's development pattern, but I suppose there are other cities that have lopsided development patterns as well (Raleigh, Atlanta, Nashville, etc.). I guess it is like "stacking"... over time the opposite side gets forgotten and grows at a much slower rate.

norm, historically, where have the rich people lived in Charlotte? The rich side of town is always sprawled. The majority wants to live near rich people so they can feel rich themselves. That's why South Charlotte developed the way it did. If you look at most major cities that has had high post-WWII growth, you will notice a correlation between sprawl and historically rich neighborhoods.

I hate to say this, but being in the south, I would bet south Charlotte historically was considered the "white" part of town while north Charlotte was historically the "black" part of town.

I hate to say this, but being in the south, I would bet south Charlotte historically was considered the "white" part of town while north Charlotte was historically the "black" part of town.
Good point, sleepy. That's another thing that causes South Charlotte to sprawl. When I ask where do all the rich people live in Charlotte, I'm really asking where do all the "white" people live.

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The question never was Black vs. White to start with...that's just how it ended up. Early on the largest black neighborhoods were Cherry and Brooklyn (2nd Ward) which were both in the south. The rest of the blacks lived on plantations throughout the city. The whites lived completely around the Urban core with 4th Ward, Elizabeth, Myers Park and then Eastover becoming ever more upper class neighborhoods. Wesley Heights, North Charlotte (NoDa) and even to some extent Dilworth were mill villages with modest housing and a few large houses for the mill owners. These smaller houses were vacated by the white for larger houses after WWII and the primary reason the that development went south is that it is easier topography wise especially with regards to utilities (water and sewer).....the urban core decay and sprawl then did what they did in every city........

The question never was Black vs. White to start with...
You're telling me that race does not effect how a city develops in the US?

The question never was Black vs. White to start with...that's just how it ended up. Early on the largest black neighborhoods were Cherry and Brooklyn (2nd Ward) which were both in the south. The rest of the blacks lived on plantations throughout the city. The whites lived completely around the Urban core with 4th Ward, Elizabeth, Myers Park and then Eastover becoming ever more upper class neighborhoods. Wesley Heights, North Charlotte (NoDa) and even to some extent Dilworth were mill villages with modest housing and a few large houses for the mill owners. These smaller houses were vacated by the white for larger houses after WWII and the primary reason the that development went south is that it is easier topography wise especially with regards to utilities (water and sewer).....the urban core decay and sprawl then did what they did in every city........

And I would bet that until the federal Fair Housing Act of 1968, blacks were steered clear--legally--from the south side of Charlotte, and for the most part, confined to the north part, including the north Charlotte areas that were abandoned by white flight as you mentioned. And that time period includes much of the post WWII boom.

Prior to that act, it was perfectly legal for a real estate agent or home seller or landlord to say "we don't rent or sell to blacks there". That wasn't just a southern thing, but happened all over.

James.....whoa whoa.....I never said race didn't affect the way it turned out....in fact I pointed out that historically blacks lived in Cherry which was the most southern neighborhood in Charlotte when it was built but explained what happened since.....the fact that the city bulldozed Brooklyn and built subsidized housing in Elizabeth, Belmont, Wesley Heights, Wilmore (which also was historically white) and Dilworth are all very important to how Charlotte develops but the real question was why is Charlotte more developed to the south which is what I was trying to explain......

Sleepy....you're right...every house in Myers Park has a restriction on its deed that prevents a black from owning it......I suppose the Fair Housing Act voided that, if not then a judge did shortly after I'm sure

I hate to say this, but being in the south, I would bet south Charlotte historically was considered the "white" part of town while north Charlotte was historically the "black" part of town.

...but being in the south...

I'm from Buffalo, and I can tell you that cities up North are the same darn way. In fact, I find the South (or, at least Charlotte specifically) to be less racist, both in attitude and in demographics.

Ok so the city destroyed the black neighborhoods in 2nd ward to help get rid of black people from the south side of the city? I also see what you mean about south Charlotte being rich.....the rich sprawling developments are going all the way down to Ballentine.....damn bastards! lol. I also noticed that the west side down to the southwest side is pretty much black too. I guess the blak people wanted to expand south too, an just did it to the southwest side of town since they cant afford anything in the south side.

norm.....that sounds a bit conspiracy theorist......charlotte had a few decades of failed urban integration.....like I said....putting public and subsidized housing in predominately white neighborhoods......what went wrong is the communities themselves were economically outcast from their surroundings......now projects like first ward stand a much better chance of success......regardless, now the city's growth is driven by market demand and land prices....the whole county will fill in over the next 25 years

Those charts are interesting, They're practically no Asians in Charlotte.

Those charts are interesting, They're practically no Asians in Charlotte.
Or hispanics...

Don't totally rely on graphs.

I didn't generate those charts but they are misleading....they only show the color of the ethnicity of the most prevalent racial group....so even though only a few neighborhoods show up as hispanic.....about 15-20% of the city is hispanic.....asians are here but in much less numbers...i think around 3%.

No, actually only 7% of the city is Hispanic, according to the census' recent estimates.

...but being in the south...

I'm from Buffalo, and I can tell you that cities up North are the same darn way. In fact, I find the South (or, at least Charlotte specifically) to be less racist, both in attitude and in demographics.

I agree. People don't really pay too much attention to who is living next door to them. When people from New York and Philly complained that Charlotte was racist, I laughed at them.

Those charts are interesting, They're practically no Asians in Charlotte.
Charlotte isn't SF but it has it's share.

Or hispanics...
Charlotte isn't L.A. but it has it's share.

Interactive 2000 Census Data Web Map:

Asians in Charlotte by census tract (http://barbera.caliper.com/Maptitude/Census2000Maps/map.asp?command=scope&map=6&width=0&table=&scope=-80817476%7C35220215%7C47.000334%7C31.960227)


Hispanics in Charlotte by census tract (http://merlot.caliper.com/Maptitude/Census2000Maps/map.asp?from=barbera.caliper.com&command=scope&map=3&width=0&scope=%2D80817476%7C35220215%7C47%2E000334%7C31%2E960227&table=&)


Racial Composition of Charlotte (Dots) (http://barbera.caliper.com/Maptitude/Census2000Maps/map.asp?try=1&from=merlot.caliper.com&command=scope&map=5&width=0&scope=%2D80817476%7C35220215%7C47%2E000334%7C31%2E960227&table=&)

Bump

Charlotte mostly developed to South because that was the rich WASP part of town, interesting...
Thats sounds like Dallas, only here it was North Dallas which that boomed while the areas South of I-30 (mostly African and Latin American) are economically stagnant.

This is actually interesting, becase Houston has the same problem.

Almost every city in the United States has this problem in some shape or form.. I know Louisville's richest area is the East End, the southwest part of Louisville had never seen a house over 160,000 until about 10 years ago now almost every neighborhood that goes up even in the south side has homes that are at least from 200,000-1,000,000 which has since strengthened the area and sorta started to balance it out...

This happened because of how housing loans were given out as well as business incentives. Many minorities moved to the innercity because that's where the jobs were. In the 30s, many factories and offices began their march out of the inner cities thanks to cheaper land and economic incentives from the oil and automobile industry. This was fine and dandy except for the practices of home lenders and insurance companies(based on actual government mandate) who used things like redlining and grading systems to determine who got loans. Basically a part of town would be outlined in red on a map, meaning don't give these people a loan or insurance. Further, there were grading systems that gave Letter grades. Basically and A got you in the new part of the city. The A's were white. I remember reading about this with the Irish and Jews in New York, who got Bs and Cs and were able to move, with some "passing" as whatever white means and getting As to move. Blacks were generally, ok always, given Ds. D meant you couldn't move.

At the same time, companies like GM were buying up public transit lines and destroying. Hence the reason rail just kind of disappeared. Any city that was of decent size in the US, had just as good of a streetcar system as any in Europe. Shocking is not a strong enough word when one looks at old streetcar maps of LA or even Dallas. Its funny that developers digging in Dallas in the 80s were shocked to find rail under the street. How little we know of our own history. Big Auto and Big Oil's goals were more about making money than racism. But killing off public transit when you have poor, economiically "cheated" people is a deathnell for them. Even Bruce Wayne's father in Batman Begins recognized this and built a damn train.

School integration, from what I gather after reading a lot of the institutional racism, was simply a "last straw" for whites in some neighborhoods. Most of these hoods were already being abandoned big time. The flight was taking place since the 30s. The big integrations were in the 60s. Catch my drift. Its like an excuse by many to not tell about the loan practices and jobs moving.

Wish I had some good text to recommend on the subject. I just remember reading a ton of this stuff and being shocked to the point of exploring even more. Especially when learning Deep Ellum and Uptown used to be Dallas' black neighborhoods after slavery. They were sort of forced south because of the white march north and south Dallas's abandonment. Poor people had to go there. Many also retreated back to East Texas as well as many migrating north and west.

Very interesting is our USofA.

I didn't know GM bought up railroads. Thanks for that, rantanamo, urban history is very interesting to me.

i wouldnt say this has to do with race as much as it has to do with where the most influental people lived.

the harris family which has built south park and ballantyne has owned the entire south park and ballantyne areas. they want it built, they put in the money to build it and the city put in roads once traffic got beyond what the roads could take.

plus, UNCC, the major driving force in the UC's urban development wasn't built until 1975