What are the best college towns, based on collegiate feeling, attractiveness? How about Madison, Ann Arbor, Charlottesville, Chapel Hill, Princeton, Athens, Boulder, Austin (not necessarily in this order).....and isn't it sad that there are no real college towns in the nation-state that is California (maybe because Cal, Stanford, UCLA, and SC are all metro area schools).

Cambridge and Berkeley, bar none. There are plenty of other great college towns out there, but none can stand up to these two in my opinion.

Austin, College Station, Baton Rouge, Berkeley, Westwood, Gainesville.

Yeah, College Station would be a 'no'.

Cambridge, Gainesville, New Orleans, Burlington (VT)

And Boston of course (the area that extends between BU and BC along Commonwealth Ave, that has to be the highest number of students concentrated in one area ANYWHERE)

Gainesvile, FL is an attractive college town? Haven't heard of that before. Also, there are some cities I would consider slightly too large to be considered a college town - Austin & New Orleans. If those cities would be included - Atlanta for that matter could be, I've seen somewhere where the city has one of the largest college populations.


My picks - Boulder, CO & Athens, GA

http://p.vtourist.com/1075235.jpg

What about...Lexington, Ky

In no order:

Boulder
Madison
Ann Arbor
Austin
Boston
Eugene

Boston/Cambridge is a huge college town, but its also a big city. I would consider a college town to be a town where the college or colleges are the central point of the town. But damn is there a great college feel in Boston. You got Northeastern, MIT, Harvard, BC, BU, Emerson, Berkley, Bunker Hill CC (:)) to name just a few

From Big Ten country:

other than the obvious (Ann Arbor and Madison), some other special places:

Bloomington: the limestone, rustic, leafy IU campus almost has a private school air about with, without the huge institituional type buildings that typify many state universities blends into a town that combines midwestern and southern charm in a hill country that many would find hard to believe is in Indiana. People are "breaking away" to go there.

Iowa City: hilly, wholesome, quaint, victorian, yet with its own brand of liberal sophistication, lots of great shops, restaurants, and bars. The Iowa campus sprawls on both sides of the river, seamlessly blending into the surrounding neighborhoods.

Evanston: once staid and conservative, a Chicago-induced building boom has created the area's best suburban downtown with a critical mass of high rise condos, great restaurants, high quality stores. Northwestern's beautiful campus starts downtown and spreads to the lakefront, its students enjoying a vibrancy they used to have to go into the city to get.

Hyde Park: though technically a neighborhood and not a college town, the home of former Big Ten member Univ. of Chicago is a leafy, intellectual bastion on the city's south side, with bookstores dominating the campus area more than bars. The magnificent gothic campus on the broad Midway and the charm of the large homes and quality apartments in what was once a 19th century suburb of Chicago are an unbeatable pair.

Boston

Ann Arbor is my favorite, but then, I'm biased.

Oxford is very nice, to be very frank. Very collegial, quaint. It has a lot of literary history there too, from William Faulkner to John Grisham.

Tucson, Ann Arbor, Berkeley

Austin is great, if you like hip stuff.

Oooh, and personally, I like the area around Rice University in HOU ( does West U count as a college town? RU is outside of it, but still ) I love that area. Huge trees, nice shops, diverse architecture, close to the med center and museum district, etc.

A college town is where the college is a focal point not a large city...for christ sakes one could say NYC is a college town if you say austin or boston...

OH, ic....

Austin is a college town. It only takes one day to figure that out. Austin revolves around the UT campus. The major sports teams in Austin is the Longhorns. The most active individuals in the community usually have some ties to UT. And basically if UT didn't exist in Austin, it would be another boring ol' city.

I'd say with as many colleges as Boston has it could probably constitute a college town too, but it is far more important than that.

Austin is a college town. It only takes one day to figure that out. Austin revolves around the UT campus. The major sports teams in Austin is the Longhorns. The most active individuals in the community usually have some ties to UT. And basically if UT didn't exist in Austin, it would be another boring ol' city.

I'd say with as many colleges as Boston has it could probably constitute a college town too, but it is far more important than that.
Exactly!
FRAT TIME! :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:

( does West U count as a college town? RU is outside of it, but still )

Maybe the proximity, but I doubt that alot of students live in West University Place due to housing costs, unless a small number of them are the lucky few to afford it.

Madison is cool, but what is the cut off population for a college 'town'? I mean in chapel hill literally like 45% of the workforce works for the university or medical center, i dont think the number is that high as a city gets bigger.

Anyways my pick is Chapel Hill (DUH) lol. It's just more attractive to me than most other college towns. Charlottesville is nice too. And it's all about the ACC anyways :-)

isn't it sad that there are no real college towns in the nation-state that is California (maybe because Cal, Stanford, UCLA, and SC are all metro area schools).

How can one say that California doesn't have good college towns. Berkeley and Palo Alto are 2 of the best.


As far as my other choices:

Columbia, SC - The University of South Carolina is right in the heart of downtown and is a significant part of the city. I am no frat or sorority fan, but USC's new Greek Village is a sight to behold, as is the new fitness center and the new basketball arena.

Athens, Ga. - I'm a gamecock fan and no fan of the bulldogs, but Athens is a pretty cool college town.

Boston - The ultimate big city college town and chock full of history and crazy drivers.

Tuscaloosa, Al. About the only cool place in an abyss known as Alabama. (Sorry, Randy. Auburn is just a boring little town, though I do like the tigers better than the tide)

New Brunswick, NJ - Rutgers has a cool bohemian feel to it.

Chapel Hill, NC - Also no fan of the tar heels, but Chapel Hill is beautiful.

Blacksburg, Va. - A nice mountain setting

Ann Arbor, Mi. - The University of Michigan has a cool hometown.

Columbia, SC - The University of South Carolina is right in the heart of downtown and is a significant part of the city. I am no frat or sorority fan, but USC's new Greek Village is a sight to behold, as is the new fitness center and the new basketball arena.

Athens, Ga. - I'm a gamecock fan and no fan of the bulldogs, but Athens is a pretty cool college town.


What, no Clemson? ;)

Chapel Hill is my favorite with Charlottesville coming in close behind.

Chapel Hill & Davidson

waccamatt, my comment on cal, stanford, ucla, and sc were based on the feeling that the real college town environment works best outside of a major metro area, where the campus really sets up an enviornment.

in my opinion, berkeley is the best of the bunch, although hardly gung ho atheltically. i don't see palo alto being more than an upscale suburb that is glad to have stanford part of it but is separated from the sprawling campus physically. westwood is a bit too urban, i think. i won't get into south-central.

I've been to all Big 12 towns except Lubbock and College Station (going there next month.) Austin is great for so many reasons, and Boulder is in a league all its own as a town in general, but neither is the kind of "college town" we are thinking of. They would still be destination cities w/o the colleges.

So, I really like Manhattan, KS (biased on this one)--Aggieville is great, Stillwater OK, Iowa City, IA (much better than Ames, unfortunately.) Lincoln, NE is a much bigger city, but it is a lot of fun and revolves around the University, as does the entire state. Fayetteville, AR is okay--it's in a fantastic setting in the Ozarks, and the bar district is almost right on campus.

Oxford MS. (Ole Miss) It is a beautiful little town.

South Bend, home of the Fighting Irish!:D

I'd pick Athens, Chapel Hill, Clemson personally, but of course my biased opinion would be my college town of Athens! I'll back up my opinion with some cool stuff:

Think about it. In how many other places in the country is a major research university situated in a friendly small town rather than a disconnected city?

How many other places feature a beautifully preserved area like North Campus as the historic backdrop to a vibrant downtown filled with sidewalk cafes, coffee-houses, and funky, locally owned shops?

In how many other communities this size can you find the dizzying array of activities and entertainment so readily available here?

So without further ado, here are the ten reasons why Athens is the best college town in America:
1. Unparalled setting-Landscape architect Adam Gross, who in the last 15 years has advised scores of schools and colleges on how to develop an appealing physical environment, has said that Broad Street frames "one of the greatest college towns in America." (Chapel Hill and Princeton also make his list.)
2. Big time sports - well duh, how bout those number 4 ranked Dawgs?
3.Thriving music scene- One of Athens' major claims to fame is the world-famous music scene that spawned the B-52s, R.E.M., Widespread Panic, and countless other groups of at least local renown.
4. More arts and entertainment- The general focus on the arts is in Athens, where the work of local artists can be found on display all over town. In addition to the University being home to the state art museum, local tax dollars paid for a recently completed $6 million expansion of the Lyndon House Arts Center, which has several galleries and offers classes to the community.
5.Strong town-gown relations- residents turn out for UGA events in droves, and faculty, staff, and students are actively involved in the community—as volunteers with various organizations, mentors to school kids, and fundraisers for local charities.
6. Healthy economy- The economic benefits of serving as the host community to a major research university are even greater when long-term impacts are considered. As Athens seeks to diversify its economic base, the ability of the University to create spin-off firms related to faculty research is a major asset.
7. Favorable climate- Yes, the dog days of August can wilt plants and humans, but that's more than offset by long falls that stretch into December and early springs that start when there's still several feet of snow up North. Athens' mild climate supports the lush greenness and explosions of flowers and shrubs that delight visitors when they tour campus and local neighborhoods. During Masters week, Athens looks a lot like Augusta National.
8.Environmental stewardship- Last December, county commissioners approved a comprehensive land-use plan, almost three years in the making. In 1998, state, local, and UGA officials cooperated to purchase 200 acres of land along the Oconee River to create a bicycle and walking trail.
9.Transportation - While an Atlanta-Athens rail line is still in the wish-list stage, plans for a multimodal transportation center downtown are moving forward. Preliminary designs call for a four-story parking deck, bus bays, and a covered pedestrian walkway and landscaped plaza
10.As far as most Athens residents are concerned, Atlanta is just close enough. On one hand, it's a definite advantage from many standpoints to have a major international city just 70 miles away. On the other, that's enough distance to maintain (so far) a protective buffer from the city's notorious traffic and urban sprawl.
And if you are into parties, UGA is the number 8 party school and also manages to stay ranked in the 20 top public universities in the nation. Going downtown is a must and something you can't imagine until you experience it. Thousands of students take over the streets as open container laws are suspended and bars all over our dense historic downtown open and the party begins. I can't even count how many times Girls Gone Wild has been taped here (if you consider that a plus.) I really have got to get a digital picture and take some pictures for you guys.

Gainesville, FL is a great college town.

Athens, Chapel Hill would also be on my list.

I've been to all Big 12 towns except Lubbock and College Station (going there next month.) Austin is great for so many reasons, and Boulder is in a league all its own as a town in general, but neither is the kind of "college town" we are thinking of. They would still be destination cities w/o the colleges.

So, I really like Manhattan, KS (biased on this one)--Aggieville is great, Stillwater OK, Iowa City, IA (much better than Ames, unfortunately.) Lincoln, NE is a much bigger city, but it is a lot of fun and revolves around the University, as does the entire state. Fayetteville, AR is okay--it's in a fantastic setting in the Ozarks, and the bar district is almost right on campus.

Personally I think both Lawrence, and Columbia, MO stomp all over Manhattan when it comes to vibrant college towns.

Madison and Burlington, VT.

In Ohio, I would have to put Ohio University (Athens) and Miami University (Oxford) at the top of the list. They just scream "college".

Athens has a more eclectic and funky atmosphere and a better Uptown. (There are a few pics in my sig line)

Favorite college towns:

1. Athens GA (Interesting and attractive downtown that blends right into the historic part of the campus)
2. Princeton NJ (Similar set up-feels a little "touristy" somehow, though)
3. Charlottesville VA (Attractive campus in a beautiful setting)

I've got to give a shot-out to my college town, BLOOMINGTON, INDIANA.

Wonderful memories.

plymouth

I've got to give a shot-out to my college town, BLOOMINGTON, INDIANA.

Wonderful memories.

and you'd be breaking away to not only a cool college town, but one of the most magnificent college campuses I've ever seen. It always seemed to me that IU looks more like a private than a public university of any state school I've even seen (and, not I haven't scene MiamiO or UVA)

I've got to give a shot-out to my college town, BLOOMINGTON, INDIANA.

Wonderful memories.


Bloomington is definitely in the top ten of college towns. I wish I were still in college.

Tucson, Ann Arbor, Berkeley

Tucson is a passionate college town. I wouldn't call it attractive. Too sprawly, too desolate. I'm currently writing this from this dusty city.

Now, if you want to ignore the cityscape and instead focus in on the hunnies, you're right. :)

Oxford MS. (Ole Miss) It is a beautiful little town.

Beautiful and cultural. Kind of a little insulated (but certainly not isolated, given its proximity to I-55/Memphis); like a cultural refuge, I guess, with all the literary connections.

Bloomington is definitely in the top ten of college towns. I wish I were still in college.

But aren't you shocked that West Lafayette didn't make the list?
Just kidding; West Lafayette makes Champaign-Urbana look charming.

Tucson is a passionate college town. I wouldn't call it attractive. Too sprawly, too desolate. I'm currently writing this from this dusty city.

I spent a month in Tucson at the U of A for Winter Session. I loved the downtown/central neighborhoods. I could walk to the University, clubs and bars downtown, the hippy stores on 4th Ave, etc. I never made it out to the sprawl 'cause I never needed to.

Desolate surface streets make for awesome bike riding. Fuck trying to wrestle with traffic. Tucson's by far the most bike-friendly city in the country. Those sensored traffic lights that allow bikes to go right through?! Awesome bicycle culture this East Coaster had never seen before.

I spent a month in Tucson at the U of A for Winter Session. I loved the downtown/central neighborhoods. I could walk to the University, clubs and bars downtown, the hippy stores on 4th Ave, etc. I never made it out to the sprawl 'cause I never needed to.

Desolate surface streets make for awesome bike riding. Fuck trying to wrestle with traffic. Tucson's by far the most bike-friendly city in the country. Those sensored traffic lights that allow bikes to go right through?! Awesome bicycle culture this East Coaster had never seen before.

I'm glad you enjoyed it. But when I say desolate, it's not just the streets. It's what's on the side of the streets. The university area is nice; it seems the only legitimate entertainment areas are limited to 4th and the university. Downtown is dead after 5 o'clock. No residents, almost no entertainment, although they are finally bringing in some after-hours establishments. Yeah, it's a nice, bike-friendly place. But that doesn't compensate for a whole lot. I'd certainly trade some traffic for a little vibrancy. I just don't think it compares anywhere with denser college towns elsewhere.

Maybe it's the environment. I really am sick of the desert. I miss seasons, trees with thick foliage, grass, rain, the smell of chimneys in the fall. I don't understand the attraction of desert life.

Ann Arbor (Hail to the Victors!)
Berkeley
Cambridge
Athens, Ga
Boulder

Other than Princeton, NJ, and possibly Bennington, VT, most American college towns are uglier than sixty-three buckets of shit.

And I'm not so sure about Princeton and Bennington, now that I think about it.

If we're talking the beauty of rural campuses--then there are hundreds of them. Towns that reap aesthetic benefits of proximity to those campuses? Not so many.

[I]

Columbia, SC - The University of South Carolina is right in the heart of downtown and is a significant part of the city. I am no frat or sorority fan, but USC's new Greek Village is a sight to behold, as is the new fitness center and the new basketball arena.



Clemson is also building a new Greek Village and our football stadium is getting an amazing expansion which will begin construction right after the Tigers tool on the Gamecocks this Saturday ;)

Death Valley Before:
http://sportsposterwarehouse.com/warehouse/clemsonfootballei-d-1.jpg

Death Valley After:
http://www.westzoneclub.com/display_image.php?target=images/plans/fv-p1.jpg&caption=Field%20View,

What are the best college towns, based on collegiate feeling, attractiveness? How about Madison, Ann Arbor, Charlottesville, Chapel Hill, Princeton, Athens, Boulder, Austin (not necessarily in this order)
I think you just named them.

.....and isn't it sad that there are no real college towns in the nation-state that is California (maybe because Cal, Stanford, UCLA, and SC are all metro area schools).
What about Santa Barbara?

Madison, Wisconsin is a tough one to pick. Weather sucks so so so bad in winter, but is so nice in summer if you hang around. Students from Wisconsin can be quite provincial, especially if not from Milwaukee area. Nightlife is great if 21 or have a good fake id. Greeks are ok. Lots of world class profs, but mostly grad level. I enjoyed myself, but it ain't perfect. It's very subjective. On plain attractiveness of campus it would be hard to beat.

Charlottesville is beautiful. Athens is nice, but I dont like the campus too much. Of course i'm biased to Chapel Hill. Why do you ask?

1. Unlike many college towns there is NO barrier between the university and the city. Franklin street runs right into chapel hill.
2. Campus is beautiful...even the new buildings are built to look old.
3. Planning. Carolina North will be an entirely NEW campus built on 700 acres left to the university by an alumnus that may be connected to main campus by public transit. Also planning for the university is set out until the year 2050.
4. Food! lol. The restaurants in chapel hill are great. Everything from cheap college food to nouveau southern cuisine.

A lotta college towns are great though.

Tier One: The Best

Cambridge/Boston
Berkeley
Austin
Boulder
Madison

Tier Two Excellent

Ann Arbor
Chapel Hill/Triangle Area


Tier Three Very Good

Bloomington, IN
Iowa City
Athens GA
Gainesville, FL
Burlington, VT
Tempe, AZ
Santa Barbara, CA
East Lansing, MI

Georgetown, DC
Westwood Village, Los Angeles
U-District, Seattle

Tier Four Pretty Good
Lawrence, KS
Charlottesville, VA
Ithaca, NY
New Haven, CT
University City, Philadelphia
Evanston, IL
Baton Rouge, LA
Tallahassee, FL
Newark, DE

Tier Five Decent
Lincoln, NE
Hyde Park. Chicago
Princeton, NJ
Tucson, AZ

Madison, Wisconsin is a tough one to pick. Weather sucks so so so bad in winter, but is so nice in summer if you hang around. Students from Wisconsin can be quite provincial, especially if not from Milwaukee area. Nightlife is great if 21 or have a good fake id. Greeks are ok. Lots of world class profs, but mostly grad level. I enjoyed myself, but it ain't perfect. It's very subjective. On plain attractiveness of campus it would be hard to beat.

Provencial if not from Milwaukee? How about all those kids from Chicago? Besides, UW has always attracted many students from the east coast.

Tier One: The Best

Cambridge/Boston
Berkeley
Austin
Boulder
Madison

Tier Two Excellent

Ann Arbor
Chapel Hill/Triangle Area


I can't imagine Ann Arbor being second tier among college towns. In some respects, it may very well be the best colleg town in the country. Madison and Austin are a lot bigger than A2 and are also state capitals. Berkeley is urban and Bay Area; thoughts of Cal fade as you head cross town towards the bay. Meanwhile Ann Arbor IS U-M. And both A2 and U-M are extremely special places. U-M is the ultimate state university: not the oldest but the model for most of the others. It is U-M that developed what state u's in this country look like, not older schools like UVA. And Ann Arbor totally compliments the university.

Evanston's moved up a tier in the last 4 years. Anybody's whose visited it recently knows whats up. The sidewalks are jam packed with people at midnight now.

Another plug for Athens: in 2003 Rolling Stone Magazine ranked it as having the best college music scene based on "venue, talent on the rise and total party volume".

New York City :)

Evanston's moved up a tier in the last 4 years. Anybody's whose visited it recently knows whats up. The sidewalks are jam packed with people at midnight now.

absolutely. and when they finally build sherman plaza (they're about to break ground), it will really be something. NU students from the past have been amazed what they've missed by beng in Evanston too soon.

What do you think are the best college towns in each state in your region....and beyond?

I'll go first.

Minnesota: Minneapolis
Iowa: Iowa City
Wisconsin: Madison
Illinois: Evanston
Indiana: Bloomington
Michigan: Ann Arbor
Ohio: (tie) Columbus, Oxford

Beyond:
New Jersey: Princeton
Massachusetts (tie): Cambridge, Amhurst
California: (tie) Berkeley, Westwood
Texas: Austin
Missouri: Columbia
Kansas: Lawrence
Georgia: Athens
Mississippi: Oxford
Colorado: Boulder
Oregon: Eugene
Washington: Seattle
Kentucky: Lexington
South Carolina: Clemson
North Carolina: Chapel Hill
Virginia: Charlottesville
Florida: Gainesville
Alabama (tie): Tuscalousa, Auburn

Hard to argue withmost of your choices except Ohio. Would choose Oxford or maybe Athens before Columbus. Columbus doesn't do much for me, and, like some other cities on the list, one could argue that Columbus doesn't really fit the mold of a college town.

What do you think are the best college towns in each state in your region....and beyond?

I'll go first.

Minnesota: Minneapolis
Iowa: Iowa City
Wisconsin: Madison
Illinois: Evanston
Indiana: Bloomington
Michigan: Ann Arbor
Ohio: (tie) Columbus, Oxford

Beyond:
New Jersey: Princeton
Massachusetts (tie): Cambridge, Amhurst
California: (tie) Berkeley, Westwood
Texas: Austin
Missouri: Columbia
Kansas: Lawrence
Georgia: Athens
Mississippi: Oxford
Colorado: Boulder
Oregon: Eugene
Washington: Seattle
Kentucky: Lexington
South Carolina: Clemson
North Carolina: Chapel Hill
Virginia: Charlottesville
Florida: Gainesville
Alabama (tie): Tuscalousa, Auburn

[QUOTE=waccamatt]
Blacksburg, Va. - A nice mountain setting
[QUOTE]

If you're going to put Blacksburg in there then I'd say Harrisonburg owns Blackburg (in reality, they're both shit as college towns, but are in a really nice location, Harrisonburg is in the Shenandoah Valley) and on top of that JMU beats Tech college-wise :D (but thats bias, :p)

and isn't it sad that there are no real college towns in the nation-state that is California (maybe because Cal, Stanford, UCLA, and SC are all metro area schools).

What would you call Chico then?

Seattle is a nice college city:

http://www.aerolistphoto.com/images/wa/seattle/2004/WASEh040617D_242.jpg

Pullman is a college town, without it, there would be no town!

http://www.wsu.edu/images/aerial.jpg

I am not a fan of Eugene. It is more of a dumpy city than college town.

Evanston's moved up a tier in the last 4 years. Anybody's whose visited it recently knows whats up. The sidewalks are jam packed with people at midnight now.

yeah, anyone who hasn't been to downtown evanston in the past few years wouldn't recognize the place. the transformation has been quite remarkable and also shows no sign of stopping. the lynch pin was when the 18 screen theater opened up downtown; that changed everything. before that downtown evanston was so sleepy in the evenings, but now it bustles, especially on friday and saturday nights.

and then you throw in all the new condo towers that have broght hundreds, if not thousands of new residents to downtown; i've known evanston very well for all 28 years of my life on this planet and the changes have just been fun to see. the best part is that there's more to come..............


however, i wouldn't say that evanston fits the true mold of a college town. to me, it's a very urban suburb on the northern edge of the coutry's 3rd largest city that happens to be home to an excellent university. it just doesn't "feel" like a college town to me.

Madison:
The city itself is yearly ranked in the top 5 places to live, if not #1.
http://www.cs.toronto.edu/cvpr2003/local/pics/Aerial%20Madison%20MT%20SW72.jpg
http://www.sacredfeather.com/suits.jpg

Can college towns change when the colleges within them change? Sounds confusing. Let me explain.

Up to the middle of the 20th century, the model used by virtually all states was to have one flagship public university. This school traditionally was strong in the liberal arts and had the full range of professional schools: law, medicine, business, etc. A second major school in many of these states had college status, was often land grant in nature, and had curriculum that focused on agriculture and science.

The University of Iowa and Iowa State College were examples of this type of model. Many states had a similiar set up: Michigan, Mississippi, Kansas, Oklahoma, Colorado, Washington, Oregon, Arizona, etc.

So, two state flagships, if not the norm, is still more prevalent than states (Ill, Wis, Ohio, Tenn, Neb, etc.) that operate with one, as in:

Calif: Cal and UCLA
Texas: UT and A&M
Mich: U-M and MSU
Ala: Ala and Aub

With the tremendous growth after WWII and the greater need for higher education, these state colleges were elevated to university status (as Iowa State becoming ISU). In time, the perspective was both schools serve as flagships. Much of the curriculum between the original "Univ of _____" and "_______ State Univ" became similiar. In Michigan, both U-M and MSU have law, medicine, and a lot of things that used to just be at Ann Arbor.

But while the second (or new) flagships have easily closed the gap with the original state universities, their college towns have not.

So, here's the question: WILL THESE COLLEGE TOWNS EVER HAVE THE ALLURE OF THE ORIGINAL UNIV'S COLLEGE TOWNS.

In other words:

will Ames ever be as vibrant as Iowa City? East Lansing as Ann Arbor? Manhattan as Lawrence? Corvaillis as Eugene? Fort Collins as Boulder? Starkeville with Oxford? etc.

As the schools become more alike, why not the college towns? Thoughts?

I SCREWED THAT UP; THIS IS WHAT I MEANT TO SAY:

Can college towns change when the colleges within them change? Sounds confusing. Let me explain.

Up to the middle of the 20th century, the model used by virtually all states was to have one flagship public university. This school traditionally was strong in the liberal arts and had the full range of professional schools: law, medicine, business, etc. A second major school in many of these states had college status, was often land grant in nature, and had curriculum that focused on agriculture and science.

The University of Iowa and Iowa State College were examples of this type of model. Many states had a similiar set up: Michigan, Mississippi, Kansas, Oklahoma, Colorado, Washington, Oregon, Arizona, etc.

With the tremendous growth after WWII and the greater need for higher education, these state colleges were elevated to university status (as Iowa State becoming ISU). In time, the perspective was both schools serve as flagships. Much of the curriculum between the original "Univ of _____" and "_______ State Univ" became similiar. In Michigan, both U-M and MSU have law, medicine, and a lot of things that used to just be at Ann Arbor.

So, two state flagships, if not the norm, is still more prevalent than states (Ill, Wis, Ohio, Tenn, Neb, etc.) that operate with one, as in:

Calif: Cal and UCLA
Texas: UT and A&M
Mich: U-M and MSU
Ala: Ala and Aub



But while the second (or new) flagships have easily closed the gap with the original state universities, their college towns have not.

So, here's the question: WILL THESE COLLEGE TOWNS EVER HAVE THE ALLURE OF THE ORIGINAL UNIV'S COLLEGE TOWNS.

People need to give a little credit to Blacksburg. It's a very nice town, which blends into the University very well. It all seems to be one place. Then, a few minutes down the road, you have the City of Christiansburg.

JMU is not comparable to Tech. JMU is a cool campus and all, but not comparable to VT.

I also love Charlottesville and Chapel Hill.

University of Wisconsin--Milwaukee
28,000 go here, and outsiders see us as the shadow of Madison. However, we're a completely different school, we're a research school. Our architecture program is nationlally ranked in the top ten, we are different than Madison and we rock because of it. Our Journailism/mass com. program is also natioanlly ranked, it's the differences that make the schools. The Wisconsin universtiy program is strong, and we benefit from each other, yet focus on very different aspects.

Hell yes Wisconsin...

WE ARE MILWAUKEE, A WAY MORE KICK ASS CITY. Not a college town, but a university in an urban setting. The second largest university does not have to be in a college town. Instead a city that is going through major improvements and revitalizaion, like Milwaukee.

University of Wisconsin--Milwaukee
28,000 go here, and outsiders see us as the shadow of Madison. However, we're a completely different school, we're a research school. Our architecture program is nationlally ranked in the top ten, we are different than Madison and we rock because of it. Our Journailism/mass com. program is also natioanlly ranked, it's the differences that make the schools. The Wisconsin universtiy program is strong, and we benefit from each other, yet focus on very different aspects.

Hell yes Wisconsin...

EastSider, it is not only perception that keeps UWM in Madison's shaddow. A good part comes from UW's structure. UW operates as the flagship, with the system's law, med and other professional schools.

That, of course, doesn't prevent UWM from being a very good school. Along with Marquette, it dominates Milwaukee. And it certainly has an attractive campus. I would say, however, that UWM's ability to create an identity and presence of its own in relation to Madison is a much tougher (and less sucessful) battle than UIC faces in differentiating itself from Champaign.

One question for you, EastSider: how much ability does UWM have to draw Wisconsin (or even resiprosity ones from Minn) students from outside the Milw metro area?

University of Wisconsin--Milwaukee
28,000 go here, and outsiders see us as the shadow of Madison.

Just drop the Wisconsin from the name & you lose that problem. Branch campuses that have evolved into major, self sustaining instutions should be spun off on their own. It benefits both parties IMO.

I like this thread!

Here is a list from epodunk that's been out for a while that list the "best college towns" by city size.


1 Boston-Cambridge, MA
2 Minneapolis, MN
3 Denver, CO
4 Columbus, OH
5 Seattle, WA
6 Atlanta, GA
7 Austin, TX
8 Washington, DC
9 Cincinnati, OH
10 Saint Louis, MO

MEDIUM-SIZED CITIES
1 Columbia, SC
2 Tallahassee, FL
3 Madison, WI
4 Urbana-Champaign, IL
5 Ann Arbor, MI
6 Berkeley, CA
7 Athens, GA
8 Fort Collins, CO
9 New Haven, CT
10 Provo, UT

SMALL CITIES
1 Charlottesville, VA
2 Bozeman, MT
3 Hays, KS
4 Boulder, CO
5 Missoula, MT
6 Manhattan, KS
7 Burlington, VT
8 Bismarck, ND
9 Iowa City, IA
10 Chapel Hill, NC

TOWNS
1 Hanover, NH
2 Princeton, NJ
3 Brookings, SD
4 Middlebury, VT
5 Durango, CO
6 Bronxville, NY
7 Menomonie, WI
8 Oneonta, NY
9 Rolla, MO
10 Conway, SC

Best College Towns (http://www.epodunk.com/top10/colleges/)

Due to the lack of student housing needs near the campus of UWM it is difficult to keep that student base on or around the campus at all times. This results in commuters being a piece of the overall student pie. At the same time the students that are living on or near campus tend to be from different areas of Wisconsin or Minnesota. Therefore the university is a mix of both commuters who travel everyday, or the students who live on or near campus.

There was talk about changing the name of University of Wisconsin--Milwaukee to Wisconsin State because of the large growth of the university, and the need to create an identity for it. Unlike Madison where the university has been established for a great deal of time, and everyone accepts that around campus its a college area, the Milwaukee campus is directly in the middle of mansions to the east, and west across the river some troubled neighborhoods. The surrounding nieighborhoods are against building more dorms, or creating more student housing, so the neighborhood and the university have different views on the topic. Making the idea of strengthening the student base very difficult.

Bump

Boston for me. I live here and know lots and the ocean scenary gives Boston a great attractive college town. There are so many colleges here and I am probably going to college here too.

Berkeley and Cambridge are the best I have ever seen.

Corvaillis as Eugene?

Ever been to the two? Corvallis is a vibrant college town, Eugene is a midsized dump. Companies like Intel locate to places like Corvallis, not Eugene.

Calif: Cal and UCLA
Texas: UT and A&M
Mich: U-M and MSU
Ala: Ala and Aub

So, here's the question: WILL THESE COLLEGE TOWNS EVER HAVE THE ALLURE OF THE ORIGINAL UNIV'S COLLEGE TOWNS.

Its kind of like comparing west coast cities with those on the east coast. Like LA vs. Boston. East Lansing, for example, tries to be both a suburb and college town . The city is really spread out with lots of parks, very pretty and well kept, wide landscaped streets, etc. And most of those cities, because they are "newer" are more suburban.

I mean, a city like East Lansing to many may seem really beautiful, but because most of us on this board are anti-suburb, we prefer Ann Arbor because of its inner-urban feel.

Its kind of like comparing west coast cities with those on the east coast. Like LA vs. Boston. East Lansing, for example, tries to be both a suburb and college town . The city is really spread out with lots of parks, very pretty and well kept, wide landscaped streets, etc. And most of those cities, because they are "newer" are more suburban.

I mean, a city like East Lansing to many may seem really beautiful, but because most of us on this board are anti-suburb, we prefer Ann Arbor because of its inner-urban feel.

i'd say that most people without either green or blue partisanship would find MSU far more beautiful than U-M (even if A2 makes it as a college town more than EL)

I'd pick Athens, Chapel Hill, Clemson personally, but of course my biased opinion would be my college town of Athens! I'll back up my opinion with some cool stuff:

Think about it. In how many other places in the country is a major research university situated in a friendly small town rather than a disconnected city?

How many other places feature a beautifully preserved area like North Campus as the historic backdrop to a vibrant downtown filled with sidewalk cafes, coffee-houses, and funky, locally owned shops?

In how many other communities this size can you find the dizzying array of activities and entertainment so readily available here?

So without further ado, here are the ten reasons why Athens is the best college town in America:
1. Unparalled setting-Landscape architect Adam Gross, who in the last 15 years has advised scores of schools and colleges on how to develop an appealing physical environment, has said that Broad Street frames "one of the greatest college towns in America." (Chapel Hill and Princeton also make his list.)
2. Big time sports - well duh, how bout those number 4 ranked Dawgs?
3.Thriving music scene- One of Athens' major claims to fame is the world-famous music scene that spawned the B-52s, R.E.M., Widespread Panic, and countless other groups of at least local renown.
4. More arts and entertainment- The general focus on the arts is in Athens, where the work of local artists can be found on display all over town. In addition to the University being home to the state art museum, local tax dollars paid for a recently completed $6 million expansion of the Lyndon House Arts Center, which has several galleries and offers classes to the community.
5.Strong town-gown relations- residents turn out for UGA events in droves, and faculty, staff, and students are actively involved in the community?as volunteers with various organizations, mentors to school kids, and fundraisers for local charities.
6. Healthy economy- The economic benefits of serving as the host community to a major research university are even greater when long-term impacts are considered. As Athens seeks to diversify its economic base, the ability of the University to create spin-off firms related to faculty research is a major asset.
7. Favorable climate- Yes, the dog days of August can wilt plants and humans, but that's more than offset by long falls that stretch into December and early springs that start when there's still several feet of snow up North. Athens' mild climate supports the lush greenness and explosions of flowers and shrubs that delight visitors when they tour campus and local neighborhoods. During Masters week, Athens looks a lot like Augusta National.
8.Environmental stewardship- Last December, county commissioners approved a comprehensive land-use plan, almost three years in the making. In 1998, state, local, and UGA officials cooperated to purchase 200 acres of land along the Oconee River to create a bicycle and walking trail.
9.Transportation - While an Atlanta-Athens rail line is still in the wish-list stage, plans for a multimodal transportation center downtown are moving forward. Preliminary designs call for a four-story parking deck, bus bays, and a covered pedestrian walkway and landscaped plaza
10.As far as most Athens residents are concerned, Atlanta is just close enough. On one hand, it's a definite advantage from many standpoints to have a major international city just 70 miles away. On the other, that's enough distance to maintain (so far) a protective buffer from the city's notorious traffic and urban sprawl.
And if you are into parties, UGA is the number 8 party school and also manages to stay ranked in the 20 top public universities in the nation. Going downtown is a must and something you can't imagine until you experience it. Thousands of students take over the streets as open container laws are suspended and bars all over our dense historic downtown open and the party begins. I can't even count how many times Girls Gone Wild has been taped here (if you consider that a plus.) I really have got to get a digital picture and take some pictures for you guys.


I agree about Athen but Clemson? I mean, it is not much of a town at all without Campus. It has a tiny Downtown strip which is nice but that is about it. The rest of it, (not much) is a sprawly mess.

Seattle is an awesome college town/city, sure it may be big but the campus has a suburban feel to it. It is grassy and green which makes it attractive, plus its set on a hill which gives it an amazing view of Lake Washington. You can actually tailgate on your boat before Husky football games because the stadium is on the lake which is awesome. It makes Madison's lake Mendota look like a dinky puddle.

Minneapolis is a great college town because i'm very biased.

Seattle is an awesome college town/city, sure it may be big but the campus has a suburban feel to it. It is grassy and green which makes it attractive, plus its set on a hill which gives it an amazing view of Lake Washington. You can actually tailgate on your boat before Husky football games because the stadium is on the lake which is awesome. It makes Madison's lake Mendota look like a dinky puddle.

Minneapolis is a great college town because i'm very biased. Northwestern and Lake Michigan can't make Wisconsin and Lake Mendota look like a dinky puddle....so I can't imagine how Lake Washington can.

UW (the real UW) has a gorgeous lakefront location that doesn't take a back seat to anything out in the Pacific NW.

Just kidding; West Lafayette makes Champaign-Urbana look charming.

I always thought that Champaign-Urbana WAS charming. It's really too bad that Chambana gets no love on this forum - I toured the campus a few months ago and loved it.

UW (the real UW) has a gorgeous lakefront location that doesn't take a back seat to anything out in the Pacific NW.

The real UW is in Seattle & it's lakefront location can't be beat. That other UW sits next to a slab of ice for a few months out of there year.

Tailgate by boat (can't do that anywhere else except at Tennessee):

http://www.washington.edu/alumni/columns/march02/images/place_stadium.jpg

http://www.aerolistphoto.com/images/wa/seattle/2002/seh2002_293.jpg


http://www.aerolistphoto.com/images/wa/seattle/2002/seh2002_294.jpg

I definitely have maize and blue partisanship, and while I find the AA campus beautiful, I honestly see how MSU is more beautiful. I mean, sure it is subjective, but I don't think the campus at MSU better than UM, it's nice, but a little less unique IMO. Both schools have a lot of nice projects coming up, Central Campus at UM in 5 yrs is going to look amazing with some of the big money projects going up. With that said, and with the Maize and Blue partisanship, A2 IMO is the nicest college town in America and is up there with some other very very nice places.

Ann Arbor
Madison
Charlottesville
Athens
Chapel Hill

These are my favorite college towns, there are a lot of nice towns that have colleges in them, but IMO, these are the quintessential towns, esp. b/c of the fact that most of these univs. have more influence than anything else in the town. I wasn't all that impressed with Berkeley, IMO Stanford's campus is the most beautiful I've been too, and VT is better than JMU as colleges, both are good and have been getting better.

Athens, GA, without a doubt, is my fave.

It was ranked 2nd best college town once.

----------------
Tailgating by boat must be awesome, Sounder.

Tailgating by boat must be awesome, Sounder.

It is pretty sweet. Many of the restaurants along Lake Union near downtown & along Lake Washington offer brunch & a tailgate cruise to the game. Many opponent alumni associations arrange one of these for their fans when they are in town to see their team on the road in Seattle.

Here are some pictures of my past & present home (but not future--leaving for Japan in three months!)---Bloomington, Indiana--home of Indiana University

http://www.opt.indiana.edu/tours/spring/photos/gates.jpg

http://www.law.indiana.edu/tour/img/tour16.jpg

http://www.conferences.indiana.edu/conferences/places/campus.jpg

http://www.theagitator.com/archives/Chappel2.jpg

Bloomington Courthouse Square in the 1930s--
Amazingly, most of this is preserved...
http://freepages.school-alumni.rootsweb.com/~mjolson/MiscPix/B'ton-Square-c1930s.jpg

Dunn's Woods, in the center of the Old Crescent Historic Area of the IU Campus
http://www.indiana.edu/~econweb/album/dunnpathfork.jpg

Sorry this is huge, but says a lot about Bloomington...even though IU has missed the NCAA for two straight years...
http://www.city.bloomington.in.us/mayor/images2001/Round3.jpg

Fine Arts Plaza
http://www.theagitator.com/archives/BtownFountainBack.jpg

http://www.iub.edu/tour/cvrsimg/trmac.jpg

The Mighty Jordan River (formerly known as "Spanker's Branch")
http://faculty.evansville.edu/ck6/bstud/jriver.jpg

One of three Tibetan Restaurants in town:
http://www.aduni.org/~abangert/bloomington/little_tibet_600.jpg

Sorry these aren't better--I'm surprised how few good pictures of IU and Bloomington there are on the web

I always thought that Champaign-Urbana WAS charming. It's really too bad that Chambana gets no love on this forum - I toured the campus a few months ago and loved it.

Airmale, you sure got me wrong. There is nothing wrong with the U of I; it's a great campus. I can't imagine any school having a more magnificent space than Illinois's mall. It's not the campus, but the fact that C/U isn't anything special in the way of a college town. Both cities' downtowns are removed from the campus and neither of them offers the collegiate feel of Madison, Ann Arbor, Bloomington, Iowa City.

Loved the Bloomington pictures. It is a wonderful college town. As for IU, I can honestly say I have never seen a state university campus anywhere that looks like a private school the way that IU does. It lacks the huge, overpowering, institutional-like buildings so many state u's have. The Indiana limestone softens the camus, the scale is more human, and the rolling, wooded terrain is gorgeous. IU is a very special place.

My bad, I meant that despite my Maize and Blue partisanship, that Ann Arbor is still more beautiful, I don't see what's so special about MSU's campus, it's more open, but that's about it, the buildings IMO are nothing special and not better than UM's.

not sure how any place could beat State College, PA as for a place to go to school. (the main campus of Penn State). just ask anyone who's been there.

I mean, the place was dubbed "happy valley" for a reason. and its campus is one of the most gorgeous in the country too.

edsg,

Champaign & Urbana's downtowns are each a mile or so from the main parts of the UI campus -- easily reachable with C-U's top-ranked bus system. (MTD was once ranked the best small city mass transit system in the country, and is always near the top.) The fact that Campustown (an expanding third downtown for the cities) is separate from the city downtowns, appeals to many "townies." Town-gown relations are fine, and students and townies can be found in all three "downtowns," but it's nice to be able to escape the student-dominated areas, with all their grimy bars and boisterous bacchanalia, now and then -- especially if you're middle-aged. When I was in Gainesville, FL (for grad school), the locals didn't have this option. UF kids have nowhere to go for nightlofe except downtown (same distance from campus as C & U downtowns), since there's hardly anywhere in/close by the UF campus. UF, eschewing commerce throughout its vast, lush campus, seems to think it's more of an oversized liberal arts arts college instead of a huge urban university.

Having spent time in G'ville and Chambana (admittedly much more in Chambana), I can hardly argue that G'ville has better scenery and climate. However, C-U is clearly superior in terms of traditional urbanism: architecture, density, mixed developments on campus, downtown/s. I like both towns (C-U and G'ville), but for different reasons. Of course, both are hugely better than the un-collegiate town where I went for undergrad -- Poughkeepsie, New York, which was half crumbling inner-city, half anonymous suburban sprawl, and all full of rude people who resented Vassar students. Bleachhh!

p.s., the U of I library, with over 10 million vols., is the third biggest university library in the country, after only Harvard and Yale. So take that, Madison, Ann Arbor, etc.! Also, Urbana's public library (my employer) is rated as one of the best small-city libraries in the country. (Yeah, they rate those, too:)) Not surprising, since the UI library school is tops in the U.S. (Well, tied w/ UNC-Chapel Hill, I think.) Oh, and several good used bookstores, three large university bookstores, etc. So all I'm saying is, Champaign-Urbana is a book-lovers paradise. What could be un-collegiate about that? Okay, that's enough city-boosting for a while! I don't pretend it's as pretty as Madison or Chapel Hill, but then I haven't been to those towns.

I'll just say that Harvard and College of Charleston (SC) are the most beautiful campuses I've ever seen, with Vassar College and Emory U. as honorable mentions. And if you're one of the lucky few who can afford Cambridge, MA, there can't possibly be a better college town.

nothing personally, but i know RJ has lived in Austin for less than a year, and is a U.T. student. Of course he/she thinks Austin revolves around U.T. But I am a native Austinite, and I don't know anyone whom works at or attends U.T. Austin is certainly not a college town. As it has been stated, unless the university is the main economic engine in town, and students/faculty make up a large percentage of the town, it isn't a college town.

My bad, I meant that despite my Maize and Blue partisanship, that Ann Arbor is still more beautiful, I don't see what's so special about MSU's campus, it's more open, but that's about it, the buildings IMO are nothing special and not better than UM's.

Two different type of campuses. I like them both. I agree with the quality of U-M buildings (more monumental and substantial) exceeds MSU's (the agrarian roots are evident). MSU's edge is an almost park-like setting and a very clear diliniation between university and town (something that would never be the case in A2).

Of course, that give U-M a bustle missing at MSU. In many ways, U-M is more tied to its surroundings than any other Big Ten school (ironically even the U of M, adjacent to downtown Mpls, has more of a sense of the campus being apart from the surrounding city than U-M). Of course, I'm talking about the dominant central campus in A2 (the north campus is a world apart).

Nova, a number of people I've talked to in recent years have seen some real similiarities going between Ann Arbor and Evanston as college towns. Can you see that?

Also, you mentioned U-M redoing its central campus and that MSU had an equally large redevelopment which you didn't name....what is it?

edsg,

Champaign & Urbana's downtowns are each a mile or so from the main parts of the UI campus -- easily reachable with C-U's top-ranked bus system. (MTD was once ranked the best small city mass transit system in the country, and is always near the top.) The fact that Campustown (an expanding third downtown for the cities) is separate from the city downtowns, appeals to many "townies." Town-gown relations are fine, and students and townies can be found in all three "downtowns," but it's nice to be able to escape the student-dominated areas, with all their grimy bars and boisterous bacchanalia, now and then -- especially if you're middle-aged. When I was in Gainesville, FL (for grad school), the locals didn't have this option. UF kids have nowhere to go for nightlofe except downtown (same distance from campus as C & U downtowns), since there's hardly anywhere in/close by the UF campus. UF, eschewing commerce throughout its vast, lush campus, seems to think it's more of an oversized liberal arts arts college instead of a huge urban university.

Having spent time in G'ville and Chambana (admittedly much more in Chambana), I can hardly argue that G'ville has better scenery and climate. However, C-U is clearly superior in terms of traditional urbanism: architecture, density, mixed developments on campus, downtown/s. I like both towns (C-U and G'ville), but for different reasons. Of course, both are hugely better than the un-collegiate town where I went for undergrad -- Poughkeepsie, New York, which was half crumbling inner-city, half anonymous suburban sprawl, and all full of rude people who resented Vassar students. Bleachhh!

Good observations. You know, I see nothing wrong with C-U which are nice towns and certainly some of the nicest downstates.....and a thousand times better as a college town than is DeKalb or Normal. It's just, I don't know, that never screamed "collegiate" like Ann Arbor, Madison, Iowa City, Bloomngton, etc. My feeling is, as soon as I leave the U of I campus, there is nothing very special around the campus.

I would say that Chicagoland understandably has great respect (and love) for the U of I, that rarely transfers over to C-U.....would you agree, citygeek?

Granted it is all objective, but I prefer MSU's campus over UMich when comapring the two. But as far as the college town goes, I like Ann Arbor better than East Lansing. The bars, restaurants, and city itself is much more student friendly in AA.

In terms of campuses though, UMich just has a little too much asphalt for my taste, I prefer the park like setting of MSU. I will agree edsg25 on architecture though, but the grounds and landscaping is what really puts MSU over the top for me. Just my two cents though.

Guys, MSU and UofM's campuses are like apples and oranges.

MSU sits adjacent to a small city of 46,000 people in 13 square miles, which is next door to a much larger Lansing. So, everything is shared and split which is why East Lansing will never feel "big" and it shouldn't.

UofM sites smack dab in the middle of a city 114,000 in 27 square miles. Let's put it this way, if MSU would have been built in downtown Lansing, it would have resembled Ann Arbor.

These are two very different universities, with different focuses, different settings, and different purposes. I can't think of any two more different big universities in one state.

Guys, MSU and UofM's campuses are like apples and oranges.

MSU sits adjacent to a small city of 46,000 people in 13 square miles, which is next door to a much larger Lansing. So, everything is shared and split which is why East Lansing will never feel "big" and it shouldn't.

UofM sites smack dab in the middle of a city 114,000 in 27 square miles. Let's put it this way, if MSU would have been built in downtown Lansing, it would have resembled Ann Arbor.

These are two very different universities, with different focuses, different settings, and different purposes. I can't think of any two more different big universities in one state.

Lmichigan, certainly agree with you about relative locations: U-M's central A2 location gives a feel that never could be duplicated by MSU in EL.

However, I may differ with you on a few points:

• 46,000 is not exactly small for a college town. To make an analogy, EL serves far more as a college town for MSU than West Lafayette does for Purdue. Due to West Lafayette being so miniscule, both Lafayette and W. Lafayette serve as the college towns....while Lansing doesn't for MSU....right?

• MSU's leafy location reflects the original purpose of the university as a land grant institution heavily into agriculture. Today, however, I think there are far less differences between U-M's and MSU's purposes. Certainly academically, they now cover many of the same areas of discourse. MSU has gone a long way to differeniate itself from the other ____ State Univ's in the US by trying to offer a full curriculum range. Then again, its location in the Great Lakes region, separates it from the numerous midwestern, western, and southern schools with a similiar name (i.e. Kansas St, Miss St, Ore St) insofar as it is in a highly urbanized state. The fact that MSU went out of its way to acquire a law school (Det Law) to add to its med schools, shows how it has the desire to be a comprehensive univesity, like what you would find in A2.

One way the purpose of the two schools may differ, however, is that with falling state revenue (and much more being picked up through private sources), U-M truly seems to be developing into a hybrid between being a state univesity and almost a private univesity. Out-of-state tutition is at private school level and the Michigan legislature has little control over Ann Arbor.

It's almost like MSU has become more of the real "state university", the one of the state's two flagships to be more geared to serving the state. I wonder if MSU ever considered (still another) name change, similiar to what you have at OSU, PSU, & FSU, with the word "the" added to its beginning (to reflect its status) as in "The Michigan State University". And, if it did, you've got to wonder if U-M would fight this name change in MSU like it did with so many others.

I don't think UofM would fight it at all. "State" university has a slightly negative connotation, anyone. Barring a full name change, adding "the" wouldn't make MSU sound anymore or less prestigious.

I still think that UofM and MSU are now growing further and further apart. As you elude to, UofM is almost seen as a private instution with rates so high, it ought as well be with the increasingly small pool of people to pull from.

Having grown up in East Lansing and been to almost all the MSU home games from the mid 60's through 70's (including the '66 MSU-Notre Dame game), MSU holds a special place in my heart. However, I went to UofM (undergraduate), UCBerkeley (graduate), my work is located between Harvard and MIT, and my work takes me to many colleges and universities throughout the country, the best college environment/town IMO is UofM.

I would say that Chicagoland understandably has great respect (and love) for the U of I, that rarely transfers over to C-U.....would you agree, citygeek?[/QUOTE]

Quite true, edsg! Whereas some college towns (not naming names) are likely the best things in their respective states, the majority of UI students come from Chicagoland, and (rightfully) look down on their temporary home as little more than an oasis of bars and classrooms surrounded by corn & soybeans. And the lack of any substantial bodies of water or other defining physical features increases the sense of isolation.

That being said, many Chicagoland students, w/ their preconceived notions that nothing worth going to exists more than a mile from Green St., never actually take the time to get to know the town. Maybe if they did, other districts in town would benefit from their energy & money. (Not that all townies necessarily want to see this, though.)

Oh, and how are Sprawlsville & South Stripmallburg in Kane/McHenry/Will Counties more exciting than a community with three historic (if a bit small) downtowns in close proximity to each other? Well, I guess C-U has no shopping malls as glamorous as Woodfield, and not quite as much granola as Madison or Berkeley, though hippies types are plentiful if you keep your eyes open (Urbana, esp.). New Urbanist planning and architecture is bearing fruit in several parts of town, which I am pleased to see. Things are def. looking up in downtown Champaign and Urbana: mixed-use developments (even that eyesore Lincoln Square is going to turn into something decent!), luxury condos (and midprice apt.s), quality restaurants/bars/cafes/bakeries, expansion/renovation of civic buildings (Urbana library and courthouse recently completed, Champaign library wrapping up the planning stage). U of I in a perpetual construction boom.

Of course, if housing prices are any indication, towns like Madison and Boulder do seem to be more desirable places to live than Champaign-Urbana, or prob. State College, PA -- but not all university students (or faculty, for that matter) are rich. 315/mo for a decent furnished studio, most util.s included, near the Engineering campus, is better than I could have gotten in Gainesville, FL, for that matter. (And there won't be a real estate boom in Central Illinois any time soon! C-U is positively posh compared to Springfield.) Cheap living and good public transit -- without high crime, excessive infrastructural decay or uninterrupted sprawl -- is more than most Americans have. Nonetheless, at age 24, I'm pretty much dying to move to Chicago (or Cincy or Austin or Seattle) ASAP!

I'm a little surprised that no one has mentioned Davis California, which hosts the University of California (UC Davis). Davis is perhaps one of only three TRUE college towns in California (the others being Chico - which hosts the California State University - Chico State, and San Luis Obispo - host to Cal Poly San Luis Obispo). And, no, Berkeley and Westwood are most definitely not true college towns. Berkeley is a fairly large city, and Westwood is just a neighborhood in the City of Los Angeles.

Davis is such a nice town that the August 2005 issue of Outside magazine (www.outsideonline.com) listed it as one of the country's ten best towns to live in. (The cover article is titled: "Where to Live NOW - 18 perfect towns That Have It All") Eight of the towns were honorable mentions, but Davis made the top 10. UC Davis is a nationally recognized research university and regularly ranks in US News and World Reports top 50 universties.

You can check out UC Davis at: www.ucdavis.edu

You can check out the city of Davis at: www.city.davis.ca.us

The following is a quote from edsg25 of Chicago:

"...and isn't it sad that there are no real college towns in the nation-state that is California..."

I guess someone from Chicago really shouldn't be commenting on California. There are at least three true college towns in California - Davis, Chico and San Luis Obispo - home to UC Davis, Chico State and Cal Poly San Luis Obispo. The city of Davis was just ranked by Outside magazine (www.outsideonline.com) as one of America's 10 best towns to live in...

Ironically, Chicago (edsg25's hometown) also made Outside magazine's top 10 list.

It's funny (and a little sad) how people seem to only know universities and colleges that have Division 1A football teams, when the main purpose of these institutions is to educate. UC Davis continually ranks in US News and World Report's top 50 universities in the country.

The following is a quote from edsg25 of Chicago:

"...and isn't it sad that there are no real college towns in the nation-state that is California..."

I guess someone from Chicago really shouldn't be commenting on California.

I've had a lot of California expereince. However, you were right about how I stated the observaton. I was really talking about Berkeley, Palo Alto, Westwood, and South Central LA.....all urbanized areas not necessarily associated with the special atmosphere of a college town removed from big cities.

I don't know ... while Berkeley is part of the Bay Area, I would argue that its unique flavor and distinctiveness make it a "college town." When someone says "I graduated from Berkeley" you know exactly what they're talking about.

I would agree that Berkeley is a type of college town - perhaps more of a college city. It's just that it is not really a traditional college town. It doesn't sit alone, but is part of a large urban area - surrounded by other cities such as Oakland. Berkeley is also too large to be called a town. But, Berkeley is a great city with a top-notch university. It is definitely unique, with its own distinctive feel.

I have to represent the home of REM, Athens,GA.

Did anyone mention Oxford, MS? Kinda quaint..

Not sure if its been mentioned, but I would say that Lexington Ky is very high on my list, if not at the top. Not only is it very senic but also the atmosphere is awesome, especially during March. Ironic enough I say all this but I go to U of L.

Anybody interested in giving the best college towns of their local conferences?

BIG TEN

1. Ann Arbor: the ultimate college town. Anywhere. Put together a blockbuster state university in the areas of academics, athletics, and tradition, and drop it into college town at the fringe of a major metro area. A2 and U-M are exceedingly special, special places.....and rightfully found each other to create the best combination of college town and university.

2. Madison: Wisconsin's gorgeous capital, loaded with lakes and with a unique isthmus setting that gives it a critical mass unfelt in virtually all cities its size. Plunk down the U on the largest of the lakes and you've created an ideal college setting, the beauty of the city and the campus complimenting each other.

3. Bloomington: Hilly, country with a twinge of the South, green.....yet sophisticated. A mellow town with the mellowest of Big Ten universities. Drive through the IU campus, its buildings built from the stone of nearby quarries in a rolling, woodsy setting, and you find the least public university looking public university in the nation. IU's campus projects private and exclusive.

4. Iowa City: it doesn't get any more wholesome. Town and university intertwine; you can't tell where one stops and the other begins. The Iowa River runs smack through both, with hills/bluffs rising on both sides. The state's old capitol building, now the symbol of the university, looms over the hills above the east side of the campus, with the river below. This is a campus about offering great views. Hawkeye spirit is incredible; this may be the most passionate of all B10 towns.

5. Evanston: ten years ago, I wouldn't have put it on the list. today, a re-energized city with a booming downtown that finally is catering to NU students as it should. Evanston, to a degree, is about having your cake and eating it, too. Taken on its own, it is a real college town with the large and major NU campus starting downtown and then moving up the lakefront for a mile or so (a campus on Lk Michigan...can it get better than that?). The gorgeous setting could make you think you are in a college town in its own world....yet Chicago is right next door and incredibly accessible.

Charlottesville, Austin, and Boston are good college towns.

Flagstaff, AZ. NAU is gorgeous!!

I haven't been to many of these towns/campuses. But I will go on what I have heard, read, or seen from media.


In the Mid-West I would go

1. Madison (without question the best IMO)
2. Iowa City (maybe not better then Ann-Arbor but underrated)
3. Ann Arbor
4. Evanston...tough to call it a "college town" so close to Chicago. On its own meritts a very nice town though.
5. Bloomington, Ind.

I would say Columbus but Columbus is a bit to big size to put on the list. E.Lansing and Champaign are pretty much dumps from what I have seen.


East Coast
1. Burlington, Vermont
2. Cambridge (like Evanston it is on the borderline of consideration)
3. Georgetown (ditto Cambridge)
4. Priceton NJ


South

1. Chapel Hill (triangle area)
2 Athens
3. Columbia S.C.
4. Lexington

West Plains and Mountain States

1. Boulder
2. Austin
3. Lawerance
4. Missoula
5. Durango

West

1. Berkeley
2. Eugene
3. Santa Cruz
4. La Jolla

I would say the best are ......
1. Boulder
2. Madison
3. Berkeley
4. Austin
5. Burlington

East Lansing/MSU a dump? I don't know what you saw of it. Sure, for a college town, it's small, but the MSU campus is one of the largest and most beautiful in the country.

From what I saw just from one weekend there (granted) it looked like much of the campus resembled Soviet era urban planning. Was not a big fan. Maybe I just saw the wrong parts or something though.

Probably. North Campus is the denser, more historic part of campus, while South and West campus do look rather modern and ugly (mostly built in the 60's). But, that's no different than most of the other college campus's listed. Many have their historic campuses that later grew from the 50-70's.

Holy Crap..........ITHACA!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Williamsburg, VA(William and Mary)
home to historic Colonial Williamsburg, the most beautiful theme park Busch Gardens, Water Country USA, numerous battlefields, and is just a truly beautiful and green city.

http://pictures.galenfrysinger.com/us/virginia29.jpg
http://pictures.galenfrysinger.com/us/virginia34.jpg
http://pictures.galenfrysinger.com/us/virginia30.jpg
http://pictures.galenfrysinger.com/us/virginia31.jpg
http://www.condorentals.com/Virginia/Destination%20Image/Williamsburg%20Viginia%20Colonial%20Ships.jpg
http://www.mcah.columbia.edu/dbcourses/hist_pres/medium/college-of-william-and-mary.jpg
http://trb.org/Conferences/Geometric/1.jpg
http://www.coaster-net.com/pics/bgw/lnm1.jpg
http://www.vachamber.com/aboutva/images/Busch_gardens.jpg
http://www.bannister.org/coasters/trips/2003/0821bgw2.jpg

Due to the lack of student housing needs near the campus of UWM it is difficult to keep that student base on or around the campus at all times. This results in commuters being a piece of the overall student pie. At the same time the students that are living on or near campus tend to be from different areas of Wisconsin or Minnesota. Therefore the university is a mix of both commuters who travel everyday, or the students who live on or near campus.

There was talk about changing the name of University of Wisconsin--Milwaukee to Wisconsin State because of the large growth of the university, and the need to create an identity for it. Unlike Madison where the university has been established for a great deal of time, and everyone accepts that around campus its a college area, the Milwaukee campus is directly in the middle of mansions to the east, and west across the river some troubled neighborhoods. The surrounding nieighborhoods are against building more dorms, or creating more student housing, so the neighborhood and the university have different views on the topic. Making the idea of strengthening the student base very difficult.

I think they should change the name to "University of Milwaukee." That would give it the air of U of Chicago, U of Cincinnati, Cleveland State, etc ... great urban universities.

Of course Madison has a soft spot in my heart because that's where I went to school. But I'd like to nominate Lexington, KY... what a nice town. About the same size as Madison, nice college scene, beautiful setting in the Kentuckey bluegrass region. There's a strong presence of horseracing culture in Lexington that makes it a unique place to visit.

I always thought that Champaign-Urbana WAS charming. It's really too bad that Chambana gets no love on this forum - I toured the campus a few months ago and loved it.



The campus at Illinois is probably one of the nicer public unversity campuses in the U.S.(along with Michigan, Indiana, in the mid-west). But the town of Champagin-Urbana is pretty mediocre. I have seen a lot worse and it is pretty ok for its size but it is not a "quaint" like a Chapell Hill or Athens and it not as vibrant as a Madison, Burlington, or Austin.

My favorite college towns that I have visited are in order:

1. Athens, GA (my alma mater)
2. Boulder, CO
3. Austin, TX

I got to go with Moscow, Idaho, Madison, WI, Corvallis, Oregon, and Missoula, Montana. Also, for private schools... Tacoma, Washington, metro Portland Oregon (Fox and Reed) and Spokane! Highly over rated IMO... Austin, Texas.

madison & columbus & baton rouge

its not a big school, about 10,500 undergrads, but UW- Eau Claire is beautiful. Its reminds me of summer camp. There's a river that goes right through campus, 2 creeks, large wooded areas and green spaces, and a big hill that is a pain in the ass to clime, but pretty.

Athens, GA is definitely an incredible place. I went down there last fall for the UGA-South Carolina game and it was incredible! I think someone said there's more than 75 bars downtown? We even saw a police chase in the middle of downtown! Either way, I'm gonna get back there the first chance I get.

Clemson is a pretty decent college town...it's a lot smaller than a lot of the other places people have been listing here. I guess it was a lot crazier before I got here, but now since the President of our university has made the goal of becoming a Top 20 public university, they've been cracking down a lot more on on-campus stuff...so that kinda stinks, but it's still a really fun place. Downtown is nice, but small...we definitely could use a few more bars, but overall it's a pretty downtown. Unfortunately thanks to being in the bible belt on Saturday night's the bars close down at midnight because technically it's a Sunday(isn't that ridiculous?). We're undergoing a lot of condo development at the moment so hopefully that'll lead to more bars opening up.

Earlier in the thread I mentioned the addition to our stadium, called the WestZone. If you were unaware of what our stadium looked like before, only the middle part of the endzone stands were there before, we added the boxes up on top and the seats going around to connect the endzone seats with the sideline stands:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v633/tmac9wr/1aaf15a0.jpg

That pic was taken today from the webcam set up in the stadium which refreshes itself every 15 seconds

NY, CHicago

New Haven, Providence, and Ithaca make my list...

this may be late but many things to say,

- First thing I noticed with Athens, GA is UGA's campus looks HUGE but why can you not see any of it on GoogleMaps?
- It's a shame that College Park (MD) was not mentioned for University of Maryland. The University shapes not only the city of College Park (city hall is on the Umd campus) but much of the state too.
- I spent an entire summer in IN at Purdue University and first off if IU's campus is anything like Purdue Indiana has to be one of the most under-rated states when it comes to quality schools in the country. Problem is when we factor in the thread topic, Lafayette throws it off, so I can not say Purdue or Lafayette is a college town. If West Lafayette was its own city and completely separate from the city of Lafayette I may have added Purdue but it is an overall great area.
- I do have to agree UC-Berkeley is the best judging from the appearance of Berkeley and the campus.
- How is it that ASU (Arizona State in Tempe) has the biggest enrollment of any university and no one is here from ASU to support them?
- Never been to Boulder or Colorado, but my first impression was excellent! I'd actually want to go to Colorado just to visit UC's campus!
- Best for last- i was practically born a florida gator an see myself being loyal to UF for a long time. However all due respect to what several people said Gainesville is not exactly a college town. If you took UF out of Gainesville it would be a city just like Jacksonville up the road is. A boring city maybe, but still a city with something to thrive off.

http://p.vtourist.com/1075235.jpg

Thats the train station in Gainesville, Texas.

this may be late but many things to say,

- First thing I noticed with Athens, GA is UGA's campus looks HUGE but why can you not see any of it on GoogleMaps?
- It's a shame that College Park (MD) was not mentioned for University of Maryland. The University shapes not only the city of College Park (city hall is on the Umd campus) but much of the state too.
- I spent an entire summer in IN at Purdue University and first off if IU's campus is anything like Purdue Indiana has to be one of the most under-rated states when it comes to quality schools in the country. Problem is when we factor in the thread topic, Lafayette throws it off, so I can not say Purdue or Lafayette is a college town. If West Lafayette was its own city and completely separate from the city of Lafayette I may have added Purdue but it is an overall great area.
- I do have to agree UC-Berkeley is the best judging from the appearance of Berkeley and the campus.
- How is it that ASU (Arizona State in Tempe) has the biggest enrollment of any university and no one is here from ASU to support them?
- Never been to Boulder or Colorado, but my first impression was excellent! I'd actually want to go to Colorado just to visit UC's campus!
- Best for last- i was practically born a florida gator an see myself being loyal to UF for a long time. However all due respect to what several people said Gainesville is not exactly a college town. If you took UF out of Gainesville it would be a city just like Jacksonville up the road is. A boring city maybe, but still a city with something to thrive off.

How can you have any impression of a city without being there.

- It's a shame that College Park (MD) was not mentioned for University of Maryland. The University shapes not only the city of College Park (city hall is on the Umd campus) but much of the state too.

College Park, MD is rundown for the most part so that is why you will never see that place mentioned as being among the best college towns in the US.

Anyways as far as college towns that I consider to be the best are the following.
Boulder, CO
Williamsburg, VA
Charlottesville, VA
Burlington, VT
Chapel Hill, NC
Athens, GA
Berkley, CA

Boulder, CO
Williamsburg, VA
Charlottesville, VA
Burlington, VT
Chapel Hill, NC
Athens, GA
Berkeley, CA

Very good selection, I especially like the Southern campuses at W&M, UVA and UNC. Very green, historic and not too decentralized.

I would add
Cambridge, MA
Ann Arbor, MI
Madison, WI
Princeton, NJ
State College, PA ("Happy Valley")

I find that there is a pretty strong correlation between the nicest campuses and the best public schools in the nation (i.e., Berkeley, UMich, UVA, W&M, UNC, Madison, Penn State).

San Marcos, TX

San Marcos, TX

:cheers1: