Ok, I want to create a series of interactive activities here on the Eastern European forum.

For the first activity, I want you to suggest the best Modern Skyline of Eastern Europe, and then, we can vote on the top suggestions (in another thread, which I will create as we receive enough suggestions).

Pictures are also a great way to support your suggestion. Please only post general skyline pictures, not ones of individual skyscrapers. Also, a few good ones should be sufficient for people to decide, so don't post 100's of pictures.

Let's start.

Warsaw, and Moscow. The situation could change in about 5 years time.

Warsaw, without a doubt.

Warsaw, without a doubt.
Remember, these are just suggestions, we'll vote a bit later, so you can provide more than one city.

Pictures are also a nice way to support your suggestion. Not too many pictures though, just a few good general pictures, not of individual buildings.

Warsaw for now.

Future city might be Belgrade because our best mayor in history zoned one district as modern skyscraper district. Beogradjanka is somewaht in that area. But then the moeny was gone. Now that territory is occupied by Main Train Station. It is in the process of moving to new location. That new station is almost done and will be finished in year or so.

Let`s not talk about Moscow which has number of residents as whole Serbia.

Nice tiny ssc might be Baltic states.

Budapest really needs some moderns because it is very expanding city.

Zagreb might get toothpick of 370 m and it will make it look funny not modern.

Warsaw, it's obvious. Moscow? It has many highrises spread all around the city but 99% of them are one hell of ugliness, although the situation might improve if the major projects (Federation Tower, TOR and some others) of "Moscow City" will be done.

Warsaw for now.

Future city might be Belgrade because our best mayor in history zoned one district as modern skyscraper district. Beogradjanka is somewaht in that area. But then the moeny was gone. Now that territory is occupied by Main Train Station. It is in the process of moving to new location. That new station is almost done and will be finished in year or so.

Let`s not talk about Moscow which has number of residents as whole Serbia.

Nice tiny ssc might be Baltic states.

Budapest really needs some moderns because it is very expanding city.

Zagreb might get toothpick of 370 m and it will make it look funny not modern.
Please read the rules! This is not about the future. The purpose is to see which city has the best SKYLINE at the PRESENT time.

And factors (like Moscow's population) don't really matter, because it doesn't change the skyline. We're looking for the BEST Modern Skyline, no matter what factors affect it.

right now I believe Warsaw, although I don't know in the future, some cities like Moscow are due to challenge the #1 spot

Can a mod please add "Part 1" to the title. I tried editing it, but it doesn't show up. Thanks.
(I wish I was a mod ... when do the mod elections start ;) )

Please read the rules! This is not about the future. The purpose is to see which city has the best SKYLINE at the PRESENT time.

And factors (like Moscow's population) don't really matter, because it doesn't change the skyline. We're looking for the BEST Modern Skyline, no matter what factors affect it.

I said Warsaw! All right? I don`t want to write the name of the city and put the dot!

I said Warsaw! All right? I don`t want to write the name of the city and put the dot!
I appreciate your suggestion, and it will surely be on the poll.
But you also mentioned that some cities might have nice skylines in the future, so I just gave you a friendly reminded. ;)

Thanks for participating.

1) Warsaw
2) Vilnius; Tallin
3) ?

1) Warsaw
2) Vilnius; Tallin
3) ?
Danke !

Bucharest has some goodies one of them even looks like those boxes(which I like BTW) in Warsaw. Not many pictures though and all of them are from its bottom. Also add all baltic capitals and Berlin (Capital of former Easter Germany ;) )

So I say Berlin

THIS IS WARSAW

http://www.mimuw.edu.pl/~walen/zdjecia/img/warszawa/w1.jpg

http://100tka.net/~dziki/wawa/r1.jpg

http://www.sky.s64.pl/home/Wwa/wbn04.jpg

http://62.29.248.133/chris/warsaw/pictures/0755b.jpg

http://www.wiezowce.bajo.pl/warszawa/noc5.jpg

http://www.plfoto.com/zdjecia/179632.jpg

http://www.autolider.pl/warszawa/Zdjecia/panorama20.jpg

http://members.rogers.com/wiezowce/rondo.jpg

http://www.air2air.net/2002/bell206/images/Bell04.jpg

http://www.plfoto.com/zdjecia/335853.jpg

http://100tka.net/~dziki/foto/rondo1xx.jpg

http://www.svir.neostrada.pl/NG7.jpg

^^^
wow, Rondo1 is already built? ;)

^^^
wow, Rondo1 is already built? ;)

No, this is only great wizualization

^^

and I thought we were talking about PRESENT skylines here ;)

^^

and I thought we were talking about PRESENT skylines here ;)

:D

Vilnius

http://img67.photobucket.com/albums/v203/M4nt4s/IMGP4117.jpg

http://img45.photobucket.com/albums/v137/Mantaz/IMGP3873.jpg

http://linas.chez.tiscali.fr/MISC/DSC02500BB.jpg

^
My favorite photo of Vilnius....don't know why, but it is.

1)Warsaw
2)Vilnius
3)Talin
4)Rest
I have problem with Moscow!!!

Wow!!!! Vilnius looks amazing!:)

^
Baltic mafia:D

I think Belgrade/Zagreb/Sarajevo have better skylines than those three cities;)
(yeah, lets make it interesting...)

Well Belgrade has it's share of tower, meaning Banjica. So many 30+ floors.

anybody has got an up-to-date Tallinn skyline shot?

1. Warsaw - No Doubt!
2. hmm, Kiev or Vilnus or Tallin
3. Poznan, Szczecin, Lodz ;)


P.S. It won't change in 5 years, IMHO even in 20

Kaspric, in terms of South-eastern EUrope/ Balkan cities(Budapest, Belgrade, Zagreb, Sarajevo, Skopje, Sofia, Bucharest, etc) some of those cities up there very tiny...:D

It will change, believe you me.

1. Warsaw - No Doubt!
2. hmm, Kiev or Vilnus or Tallin
3. Poznan, Szczecin, Lodz ;)


P.S. It won't change in 5 years, IMHO even in 20

Poznan, Szczecin, Lodz ??? hmmm ... you forgot Gliwice! ;)

Tallin - http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=121766&page=2

Poznan, Szczecin, Lodz ??? hmmm ... you forgot Gliwice! ;)if you want :). Wait a moment :).


@KM: I meant that Warsaw would have the greatest skyline.
Warsaw is on much higher level and it build more and more... in my opinion only Kiev and Belgrade (and of course Moscow, but it's different history) can ever match it, but not in near future :)

Uzice! :master: :master: :master:
http://www.wiesbaden-team.de/uzce.jpg
:old:

You wanted so you have: skylines of Gliwice (taken by Magi from "Gliwiczanie" :)):
radiostation :)
http://www.gliwiczanie.pl/wieza/P1010063.JPG
http://www.gliwiczanie.pl/wieza/P1010070.JPG
commieblocks :)
http://www.gliwiczanie.pl/wieza/P1010101.JPG
http://www.gliwiczanie.pl/wieza/P1010092.JPG
Silesian University of Technology - and a mine :)
http://www.gliwiczanie.pl/wieza/P1010121.JPG
bonus :D: harbour!
http://www.gliwiczanie.pl/wieza/P1010071.JPG

so what do you think about it? ;)

In 5 years time Riga might come up with fine 7 - 10 building cluster. But not yet - our few highrises currently are spread out.
1) Warsaw
2) Moscow - rather ugly and spread out but - huge!
3) ??? only Tallinn and Vilnius have clusters of highrises??? I like both.

Warsaw beats everybody, no doubt, future hmmm i think Moscow and Vilinus ! (moscow has a lot of highrises but not clear defined skyline)

Delfin posted some mad pictures of Warsaw's skyline. I am totally convinces that this is the best modern skyline in this category.

The Polish have made an excellent head start that it will take ages for the others to catch.

Great stuff Warsaw! :)

http://www.nostalgia.org.ua/img/nostalgi_3/konkurs/k7_01.jpg

Proposed skyscraper in Kyiv.

Although for now I say Warszawa. I've been there in 1996 and then it didn't have none of those highrises which I've seen on this forum. I thought of Warszawa as of a very nice small city. Today I can say that it is not so. It's very nice and large, developing city.

in 1996 there wasnt half of skyscrapers that you can find now, for example WFC, WTT,IC and many more

Yes.

Put the Moscows too so we can see all of them before we vote.

here are some pics from the construction of the nicest(in my opinion) skyscraper in Warsaw
Rondo 1 196m
by sojuz
http://www.startbilder.de/einzelbild.php?id=288066&quality=80&maxpixel=800&identifier=8a32bcd4f0
http://www.startbilder.de/einzelbild.php?id=288065&quality=80&maxpixel=800&identifier=3a4859367d

and this is what it looks like in 2005

by DzikiRex
http://100tka.net/~dziki/wawa/r1.jpg

and here is contruction of Golden Taraces

http://www.startbilder.de/einzelbild.php?id=288052&quality=80&maxpixel=800&identifier=9d11f432bf
http://www.startbilder.de/einzelbild.php?id=289172&quality=80&maxpixel=800&identifier=f9c36e1854
http://www.svir.neostrada.pl/ZT2.jpg
http://www.svir.neostrada.pl/ZT5.jpg
http://www.svir.neostrada.pl/ZT7.jpg
http://www.svir.neostrada.pl/ZT10.jpg

Uzice!http://www.wiesbaden-team.de/uzce.jpg
:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:


DEFINITELY

OK, so as of now we have (in no particular order):
-Moscow
-Warsaw
-Kyiv
-Vilnius
-Tallin
-Uzice
-Beograd (?)
-Poznan
-Szczecin
-Lodz
-Gliwice

What about Sofia? Zagreb? Sarajevo? Ljubliana?(sp.) Novi Sad? :)

don`t post Beograd because it has no centralized skyline. And the most of other cities in EE. Like Kyiv Moscow Bucharest

Sofia has no skyscrapers. Zagreb has some but again might have the same problem like Belgrade. Novi Sad is old city and highrises are not allowed to ruin its skyline. Ljubljana and Sarajevo... well get some pics.

And there are no pics of Bucharest skyline which is a pitty.

OK, so as of now we have (in no particular order):
-Moscow
-Warsaw
-Kyiv
-Vilnius
-Tallin
-Uzice
-Beograd (?)
-Poznan
-Szczecin
-Lodz
-Gliwice

What about Sofia? Zagreb? Sarajevo? Ljubliana?(sp.) Novi Sad? :)

I suggest remove Gliwice and add Katowice!!!

OK, so as of now we have (in no particular order):
-Moscow
-Warsaw
-Kyiv
-Vilnius
-Tallin
-Uzice
-Beograd (?)
-Poznan
-Szczecin
-Lodz
-Gliwice

What about Sofia? Zagreb? Sarajevo? Ljubliana?(sp.) Novi Sad? :)Hehehe, Gliwice's been only a joke ;). Remove it :)

1. Warsaw
2. Moscow
3. Vilnius
4. Beograd
5. Lodz
6. Poznan
7. Kyiv
8. Szczecin
9. Katowice
10. Bucharest

Gdansk, do not forget about this city.
http://republika.pl/drex5/skyline2.jpg
http://www.wiezowce.bajo.pl/inne/gdansknoc2.jpg
http://www.wiezowce.bajo.pl/inne/gdanskpan3.jpg

I found the old panorama thread!
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=89566
------------------------------------------
well obviously there aren't a lot of skyscrapers in Bulgaria, but nonetheless I've found these:
Sofia:
http://users.mrl.uiuc.edu/petrov/sofia/sofia-pan10.jpg
http://www.mit.edu/~gpetrov/bg/planini/vitosha/vitosha18.jpg
http://www.mit.edu/~gpetrov/bg/sofia/sfpan1.jpg
http://www.sofia.bg/big/ok.jpg
here is a nice 3D panorama:
http://www.nchbg.com/index.php?p=virtual/pbc
------------------------------------------------
Varna, it doesn't show much:
http://mishami.image.pbase.com/u42/ngruev/large/27633734.sP4020212.jpg
http://www.varna.bg/photo/gallery1/varna/images/varna10.jpg
http://www.varna.bg/photo/gallery1/varna/images/varna16.jpg
------------------------------------------------
Veliko Turnovo:
http://users.mrl.uiuc.edu/petrov/turnovo/turnovo-pan.jpg

Beograd

http://www.frowbie.com/gallery/content/europe/serbia/belgrade/IMG_0253.JPG

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v399/nero87/bg09.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v399/nero87/bg15.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v127/Pupin11/BelgradeAerial/warisland1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v127/Pupin11/BelgradeAerial/beogradjanka1.jpg

ZAGREB

http://www.mef.hr/mse/slike_mse/KOMERCIJ.jpg

http://www.foto-studio-time.hr/galerija/profi/horvat/zalazak/zagreb.jpg

http://www.zagreb-touristinfo.hr/pix/atrakcije/Sava~Sava_River.jpg

Poznan

http://www.fdi.i5.pl/pb/skyline/9.jpg

http://www.fdi.i5.pl/pb/skyline/8.jpg

http://www.fdi.i5.pl/pb/skyline/2.jpg

http://www.fdi.i5.pl/pb/skyline/1.jpg

http://epoznan.net/inne/arch/ratusz_28052004/1.jpg

http://epoznan.net/inne/arch/ratusz_28052004/4.jpg

http://www.fdi.i5.pl/pb/poznan/11.jpg

http://www.fdi.i5.pl/pb/poznan/12.jpg

http://www.fdi.i5.pl/pb/2004_09_03/03.jpg

http://www.fdi.i5.pl/pb/2004_09_03/07.jpg

http://www.fdi.i5.pl/pb/2004_09_03/18.jpg

http://epoznan.net/inne/arch/ratusz_28052004/panorama1.jpg

1. Warsaw
2. Moscow
3. Vilnius
4. Beograd
5. Lodz
6. Poznan
7. Kyiv
8. Szczecin
9. Katowice
10. Bucharest
11. Uzice
12. Gdansk
13. Zagreb
14. Sofia
15. Riga

Now we are waiting for BERLIN and Ljubljana.

You forgot Tallinn. It really has fine looking highrise cluster and could be among top 5.
Riga also should not be quite the last. After all there are some 6 buildings over 20 floors currently.
Sorry, a bit lazy to illustrate it here. Just some pics from Riga:
http://photos.heremy.com/knaabis7/18214711451.jpg

Alphabetize
==========================================================

1. Beograd
2. Berlin
3. Bucharest
4. Gdansk
5. Katowice
6. Kyiv
7. Lodz
8. Moscow
9. Poznan
10. Riga
11. Sofia
12. Szczecin
13. Tallinn
14. Uzice
15. Vilnius
16. Warsaw
Zagreb

Riga more (my pictures):
http://photos.heremy.com/knaabis8/1034698012.jpg
368m TV tower of unique design - nothing similar in the world. Soon some highrises to be built nearby.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v236/lecekte/TVtornis-PetB-8jun04.jpg
Hotel Latvia was built in middle of historic quartals - then Soviets planned to build numerous highrises here... happily they did not succeed with this. Recently reconstructed:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v236/lecekte/VIesnLatvija-Petb2-8jun04.jpg
Just go to my "Riga highrise encyclopaedia" to see all highrises in Riga.

Ok, couple shots of Tallinn


(c) Simo Savela
http://img45.exs.cx/img45/142/284241.jpg


(c) John
http://img45.exs.cx/img45/2291/227614.jpg

Berlin - EE??? Germans (after all - owners of the city) could say something else ;)

Berlin - EE??? Germans (after all - owners of the city) could say something else ;)

well it is almost as east as Prague

What about my city? :)

1.Istanbul Levent Skyline
http://dunyaturk.com/tr22/k_Burc_borsa_p_5771.jpg

http://www.dunyaturk.com/tr01/sporcular1.jpg


2.Istanbul Maslak Skyline
http://dunyaturk.com/tr17/k_MeReK_IMGP4796.jpg

http://dunyaturk.com/tr17/k_MeReK_IMGP4798.jpg

^^^
Istanbul is not in Eastern Europe :)

^^^
Istanbul is not in Eastern Europe :)

unless you want to poke Turks , you must admit Istanbul is in EE

just a half of Istanbul, I'll give them that.
And I think that most of the skyline is on the european half, so I guess Istanbul gets easily on the top 3

^^^
I'm not denying that Istanbul is in Europe (I consider Turkey as European country), but it's not Eastern European country, it's in the south of the continent and hasn't much to do with Eastern Europe according to its common meaning (yes, it's former commie European countries).

This is the OFFICIAL nominations list. The following cities are nominated for the Best Modern Skyline of Eastern Europe (in no particular order):

- Warsaw
- Vilnius
- Uzice
- Tallin
- Gdansk
- Poznan
- Istanbul
- Riga
- Prague *updated*

The rest of the "suggested" cities have not been supported with present skyline pictures. As well, it must be noted that there is a difference between old highrises, and commieblocks, as they are not exactly "modern".

There is still room for more nominees, so keep them coming, and SHOW PICTURES, otherwise, we can't tell if the city is a potential candidate.

What about Belgrade, lol? Funny that Uzice in Serbia is nominated for one of the top skylines in E.E., but the capital isn't. :)

What about Belgrade, lol? Funny that Uzice in Serbia is nominated for one of the top skylines in E.E., but the capital isn't. :)
As I said, I added cities that have showed me sufficient MODERN skylines. From the pictures provided, I did not see that in Belgrade.

As I said, I added cities that have showed me sufficient MODERN skylines. From the pictures provided, I did not see that in Belgrade.
where is Moscow???

^^^
Istanbul is not in Eastern Europe :)


Actually Istanbul is "most eastern" city of europe.It's the eastern end of the continent and it's definitly not southern european as you can see in this map ;)

http://www.o-21.org/projects/maps/images/easterneurope.gif

^^^

Istanbul most Eastern? Istanbul is as eastern as Vilnius is (besides Istanbul is in the south) which is the geographical CENTER of Europe. If you mean the most Eastern Capital city then it's Moscow (European continent ends at Ural mountains in Russia).

I really like Turkey, but it belonges to completly different part of the world, for sure not Central or Eastern Europe.

Interesting map - Kaliningrad is divided between Poland and Lithuania :)

http://www.o-21.org/projects/maps/images/easterneurope.gif

And I can see that Czechoslovakia is still existing ;)

And Kaliningrad district has been divided between Lithuania and Poland. Cheers!

Interesting map - Kaliningrad is divided between Poland and Lithuania :)

http://www.o-21.org/projects/maps/images/easterneurope.gif

And I can see that Czechoslovakia is still existing ;)

Serbia is together with Bosnia and Macedonia while Croatia is annexed by Slovenia. hah this is hilarious

Here's the Prague's Pankrac area. It's got a mini skyline too. http://www.volny.cz/zdenek.bezouska/locality/views/d2.JPG view from the southeast http://www.e-architekt.cz/prispevky/pankrac/soucasny-stav-2-xl.jpg view from Prague's Castle http://www.e-architekt.cz/prispevky/pankrac/masterplan-04-xl.jpg

But really - forgot about Prague although have been in Pankrac myself! Cheers Prase1 ;)

Warsaw:

http://www.startbilder.de/einzelbild.php?id=254175&quality=100&identifier=b6a30384bc http://www.startbilder.de/einzelbild.php?id=283542&quality=100&identifier=ea8327c6d3& http://www.startbilder.de/einzelbild.php?id=283544&quality=100&identifier=5acfffb54e& http://www.startbilder.de/einzelbild.php?id=283538&quality=100&identifier=1dc8ee065c& http://www.startbilder.de/einzelbild.php?id=283546&quality=100&identifier=e2233d5959&

@messiah
Eastern Europe associated with Slavics. Also there is Romanians and Moldovans. Turkey and Georgia is Southern Europe. Only small part of Turkey, which is to west from Bosphorus Channel is in Europe, while in Georgia only Abkhasia is in Europe. Turkey consider as European historically and culturally.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europe

@coth - Baltics? We ourselves consider us to be East European, I think. Hungarians, Albanians should be Eastern Europeans too. Have doubts about Georgia as European country - although they are Christian but still very different...
Regarding that small European piece of Turkey - it could be grouped with Greece which is not considered to be Eastern Europe.

yes, Hungarians and Albanians too
but Baltic countreis more associated with Scandinavia and Northern Europe...

Actually Turkey is nowhere and everywhere.Some consider Turkey as mideast some european some asian,balkan,sothern europe,eastern europe.

I'm sure if I show these pics in there southern eurepean forum they would tell me to show them in the E.E forum.The same with mideast,european and asian forum.

BTW if Istanbul is not eastern europe how can you consider Warsaw as E.E which is more central then eastern?

well Poland is considered as a Eastern Europe. and its capital is the most modern looking city in eE without a doubt :)

And who is the person who is able decide where a city is?I would like to talk to him in order to be sure where Istanbul really is ;)

I have no idea but I never considered Turkey as Europe(including Istanbul) Its more middle east

Istanbul or Turkey is DEFINITLY more european then mideast.

if you look at architecture, religion, and people and where Turkey is located it seems to be middle east

well, then Moscow is also Middle East?

Turkish architecture

You see here the skyscraper archtecture and also some houses where pepole live.Both don't look like mideast

http://www.dunyaturk.com/tr01/ulustan1020.jpg


Old architecture

It doesn't look mideast either
http://www.dunyaturk.com/tr01/istiklal2549.jpg

Turkish mosque

http://www.dunyaturk.com/tr01/sultanahmet3997.jpg

Mosque in mideast

http://rustyknight98.com/Mideast/Man5.jpg


Religion

Religion is the same but "turkish"islam and mideast islam is not the same.I think this is clear to you.


People

Turkey

http://www.dunyaturk.com/tr01/istiklal8228_.jpg

http://www.dunyaturk.com/tr01/P6224773.jpg

http://www.dunyaturk.com/tr01/P6224974.jpg

Mideast

http://www.saudi-american-forum.org/images/SUSRIS/NLSupp0515a.jpg

http://www.worldtrek.org/odyssey/mideast/current/images/chatting_bg.jpg

Location

7% of Turkey is in europe but 0% is mideast ;)

I'm sorry that I disappointed you by showing you the turth ;)

well looking at these pics I am even more convinced that its Arabic country and has little in common with eE (eastern Europe are slavs, incl.hungary) BTW why Turks want so much to belong to Europe instead of Middle East?

Same reason the Poles want to belong to W.E.???

I dont want Poland to belong to WE, it belongs to Eastern Europe, its a slavic country

well looking at these pics I am even more convinced that its Arabic country and has little in common with eE (eastern Europe are slavs, incl.hungary) BTW why Turks want so much to belong to Europe instead of Middle East?

Sure the pics whci I posted lokk very mideast. :bash: It doens't have any sense to talk to you.

well it looks like
a middle east

http://www.dunyaturk.com/tr01/sultanahmet3997.jpg
http://www.math.umn.edu/~alayont/turkiye/marmara/ayasofya.jpg
http://honuzim.free.fr/photos/Istanbul.JPG

I dont want Poland to belong to WE, it belongs to Eastern Europe, its a slavic country

And turks aren't arabs so why should we belong to mideast?Because we have the "same" religion?

He just doesn't want to have competition from Istanbul to Warsaw's popularity in the Modern Skyline Poll later on. :)

Well, I don't see any Serbs here having problem with TUrkey being in Eastern Europe, so post away, Messiah:)

As far as Im concerned, Turkey has always and will always be in Europe.

well it looks like
a middle east

http://www.dunyaturk.com/tr01/sultanahmet3997.jpg

Sorry but you've no idea of architecture.Can't you differ mideast architecture from the european architecture?


This is mideast architecture

http://rustyknight98.com/Mideast/Man5.jpg

Mosque =/= Mideast (Mosque is not mideast) That's way you think of!

Well, I don't see any Serbs here having problem with TUrkey being in Eastern Europe, so post away, Messiah:)

As far as Im concerned, Turkey has always and will always be in Europe.

Amen to that. :righton:

This is Hagia Sophia and was built 2600 years ago by the emperor Justinian as a chrurch so it can't be mideast!A proof again that you have no idea
http://www.math.umn.edu/~alayont/turkiye/marmara/ayasofya.jpg

You prove only by posting the mosque pictures that our religion is islam but not that we belong to mideast.By posting these mosques you show once again that turkish architecture is differnt from the mideast and looks european

This is Hagia Sophia and was built 2600 years ago by the emperor Justinian as a chrurch so it can't be mideast!A proof again that you have no idea
http://www.math.umn.edu/~alayont/turkiye/marmara/ayasofya.jpg

You are completely right. Up until 1000 years ago, that was an Orthodox church but the leader at that time later just added minarets and said it was a mosque.

He is just afraid of Istanbul's BIG skyline!If you want to I won't post any skylscraper pictures of Istanbul in order not to scare my polish friend :)

I know its Hagia Sophia. its beautiful but still it looks rather arabic, is that ok if I say that Turkey is partly M iddle East, parly South-Eastern Europe?

despite i'm ateist but it was mainly religion that mostly influenced Europe as its now, I know how Turkey wants to join EU but to be honest it will never be able and not because its economy and not respecting human rights, but mostly beacause its different culture customes and religion. There was even threadf about this, I guess it was on german forum, and there was a poll"do you cosider Turkey as Europe" and over 80% claimed its not a Europe

@messiah

what's wrong with Turkey not being Eastern European? Some might not agree that Turkey is European country, ok, but that's not to the point, I don't have problem with Turkey being European and I'm sure it will become EU member sooner or later. But that's not the point. The point is that Turkey is not EASTERN European neither geographically, neither politically neither in any other term as all other countries posted here are. So you better acknowledge the fact and let's stop this discussion.

Is Turkey in southern europe then?Eastern europe seems more logical to me.
Beside this most of you don't know (I don't know why) the question is not "if" Turkey will be able to join the EU but "hen" Turkey will be able to join the union.We are already a candidate state.We will see at the end of this when we will be able to join the union!I would say something around 2015

This is Hagia Sophia and was built 2600 years ago by the emperor Justinian as a chrurch so it can't be mideast!A proof again that you have no ideaHehe :). You meant it was built 1500 years ago :)

I don't agree with delfin that it's more middle east. It's european, but - sorry -saying that it's eastern europe is really stupid! :)

mmmmh!

Thank you for your help xyz :)

This is painful.I don't know why I wrote 2600 but you're right ;) Maybe something else was 2600 years old,hmm who knows.. :)

Fact : Turkey belongs more to europe than to mideast
Fact : Southern european don't consider Turkey as souther european
Fact : Eastern euros don't consider Turkey as eatern european

Question : Where is Turkey?I consider myself as soutern european.Why?Because turkish culture and architecture has more similarities to Bulgaria,Rominia,Bosnia thn to Spain,Portugal,Francae.Also to mention that we ruled this are for 500 years.

It's just Turkey :). Sorry, but it's a little different to E.E. and different to S.E. It's just Turkey :)

You may be right(in your opinion) but nobody can't tell me not to post any pictures of Turkey in this part of the forum

@coth - Baltics? We ourselves consider us to be East European, I think. Hungarians, Albanians should be Eastern Europeans too. Have doubts about Georgia as European country - although they are Christian but still very different...
Regarding that small European piece of Turkey - it could be grouped with Greece which is not considered to be Eastern Europe.
We already discussed Greece, and most people agree that it's Eastern Europe (after being Southern Europe, of course), not just geographically but culturally, etc.

Some more photos from Gdansk

Zieleniak
http://www.wiezowce.bajo.pl/inne/zieleniak1.jpg

Nowomir
http://www.wiezowce.bajo.pl/inne/navimor1.jpg

Hotel Hewelius-Mercure
http://www.wiezowce.bajo.pl/inne/hewelius3.jpg

http://www.wiezowce.bajo.pl/inne/gdansknoc3.jpg

I wouldn't mind having Turks post here, because I believe they're homeless, and they don't want to post in the MidEast section.
well again, Turks can post here, I don't mind, but from the moment that it's just a part of Turkey. What does that mean? Istanbul, the whole West coast that has an active european past, but I don't want to see Ankara, or the rest of anatolia, so maybe not 7& of Turkey, but 17%, because I don't see what the hell does the rest of Turkey have to do with East European issues :?

don`t get off the line > Best Modern Skyline of Eastern Europe

Turkey is not wholly part of either East Europe or South Europe. I consider it belonging to a whole other part of Europe that other people dont believe exists at all, Turkey, Armenia, Georgia, Azerjaiban, etc. etc.

And maybe its just me, but based on the pictures the Hagia Sofia is the ugliest thing I have ever seen in my life. Whats with the color? I'd sooner have the Genex tower in my city than that orange monstrosity.

^
Agreed.

I also consider Armenia & Georgia part of Europe, but am not sure about Azerbaijan.
Though, im told...Baku is a great, European-style, city:)

Armenia should certainly be considered European country. It's the first country in the world that adopted Christianity as it's official form.

Turkey is a difficult question. Maybe today it's trying to integrate into Europe but geographically it is Asia. Maybe politically it's Europe. Although Turkey has really influenced course of European history, particularly Balkan region and even our Southern Ukraine which was sometimes raided by Turkey. I can't really say that we liked this influence :)

But Turkey certainly should have a right to participate here.

This is my idea of Europe's borders.

http://en.wikipedia.org/upload/5/52/Euro.JPG

With the following geographic regions:

Western Europe

Andorra
Belgium
France
Ireland
Luxembourg
Monaco
Netherlands
United Kingdom

Central Europe

Austria
Germany
Liechtenstein
Switzerland

Southern Europe

Cyprus
Greece
Italy
Malta
Portugal
San Marino
Spain
Vatican City

Eastern Europe

Albania
Belarus
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Bulgaria
Croatia
Czech Republic
Hungary
Macedonia
Moldova
Poland
Romania
Russia
Serbia and Montenegro
Slovakia
Slovenia
Ukraine

Northern Europe

Denmark
Estonia*
Finland
Iceland
Latvia*
Lithuania*
Norway
Sweden

Caucus

Armenia
Azerbaijan
Georgia
Turkey

*Possibly Eastern Europe

Then Eastern Europe is like 70% of all of Europe. Geographically illogical but politically correct I guess. But then if you look objectivally at geographics of Europe, then the only East European country would be Russia and all the other Central European, since Russia is so huge, it's like a third of Europe is Russia.

This is my idea of Europe's borders.

http://en.wikipedia.org/upload/5/52/Euro.JPG

With the following geographic regions:

Western Europe

Andorra
Belgium
France
Ireland
Luxembourg
Monaco
Netherlands
United Kingdom

Central Europe

Austria
Germany
Liechtenstein
Switzerland

Southern Europe

Cyprus
Greece
Italy
Malta
Portugal
San Marino
Spain
Vatican City

Eastern Europe

Albania
Belarus
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Bulgaria
Croatia
Czech Republic
Hungary
Macedonia
Moldova
Poland
Romania
Russia
Serbia and Montenegro
Slovakia
Slovenia
Ukraine

Northern Europe

Denmark
Estonia*
Finland
Iceland
Latvia*
Lithuania*
Norway
Sweden

Caucus

Armenia
Azerbaijan
Georgia
Turkey

*Possibly Eastern Europe
It's a very funny idea to call Czech Rep. Eastern Europe but Austria Central Europe. :nuts:

Then Eastern Europe is like 70% of all of Europe. Geographically illogical but politically correct I guess. But then if you look objectivally at geographics of Europe, then the only East European country would be Russia and all the other Central European, since Russia is so huge, it's like a third of Europe is Russia.

What exactly are you talking about? Eastern Europe would make up only a slighty larger area than Western Europe, and having Eastern Europe be the largest geographic part of Europe would not surprise me in the slightest. As for Russia, it's in a class of its own but Eastern Europe is the closest.

It's a very funny idea to call Czech Rep. Eastern Europe but Austria Central Europe. :nuts:

O.k. There is no East Europe. We're all part of the magical lala land called Central Europe where modern Eastern European nations who dont like being associated with their warring and ethnically cleansing embarassing little siblings can pretend they're the same as Germany and Switzerland so that they can sleep at night.

My divisions were based primarily on geography, but also on culture. Central Europe is basically the Germanic part as well, whereas East Europe is predominantly Slavic.

If the division of Europe is gonna go beyond the East-West division I would put ex-Yu countries into South Europe, and Czech Rep, Slovakia, Poland and Hungary into Central Europe.

^
Agreed.

I also consider Armenia & Georgia part of Europe, but am not sure about Azerbaijan.
Though, im told...Baku is a great, European-style, city:)
My grandfather was from Baku, so I have some blood ties to it. I have seen a few pictures, and it looks very beautiful.

O.k. There is no East Europe. We're all part of the magical lala land called Central Europe where modern Eastern European nations who dont like being associated with their warring and ethnically cleansing embarassing little siblings can pretend they're the same as Germany and Switzerland so that they can sleep at night.

My divisions were based primarily on geography, but also on culture. Central Europe is basically the Germanic part as well, whereas East Europe is predominantly Slavic.

I totally agree with you L3D3NI. Everyone seems to be ashamed of where they are and want to be something they are not. I'm quite happy to be from South-Eastern Europe and I wouldn't have it any other way. I'm sure you feel the same way. The divisions you described are also very very correct and that is how I based my distinctions.

My divisions were based primarily on geography, but also on culture. Central Europe is basically the Germanic part as well, whereas East Europe is predominantly Slavic.

I have to dissapoint you, but Western Slav countries (central european) like Poland, Czech rep, Slovakia and Hungary (although not slavic) are culturally closer to Germany than to Russia, Ukraine, Belarus etc., because they were always more under Latin than Bisanthium civilization impact (different alphabet, calendar, religion, customs, etc. some of these divisons are now past, but many are still present). We cannot be simply called western Europe, as ofcourse we were also impacted by our eastern neighbours, but we can't be called eastern Europe as well. So central Europe is the most suitable here.
btw, if your division is based PRIMARILY on geography then have in mind that the center of europe is somewhere in Lithuania - so to the EAST from Poland, Czech rep. etc. From that point of view we are even WE :D

NOW, getting back to business !
Are we keeping Istanbul in the competition or not ?
Also, anyone else have cities to nominate ?!?
I'm STILL waiting for Kiev and Moscow pictures !!!

I have to dissapoint you, but Western Slav countries (central european) like Poland, Czech rep, Slovakia and Hungary (although not slavic) are culturally closer to Germany than to Russia, Ukraine, Belarus etc., because they were always more under Latin than Bisanthium civilization impact (different alphabet, calendar, religion, customs, etc. some of these divisons are now past, but many are still present). We cannot be simply called western Europe, as ofcourse we were also impacted by our eastern neighbours, but we can't be called eastern Europe as well. So central Europe is the most suitable here.
btw, if your division is based PRIMARILY on geography then have in mind that the center of europe is somewhere in Lithuania - so to the EAST from Poland, Czech rep. etc. From that point of view we are even WE :D
ENOUGH! There is another thread for all this. We have discussed this before, and it is not necessary here.

We're getting back on track now!

My grandfather was from Baku, so I have some blood ties to it. I have seen a few pictures, and it looks very beautiful.

I just don't like that Baku has hundreds of old Soviet-style oil rights right on the coast of the Caspian sea. I saw a documentary on CBC about the pipeline being built from there to a Turkish port, and I found that although the city was great, the oil rigs ruined the whole atmosphere.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/165000/images/_166648_Copy_of_baku_oil_wells_elvis150.jpg
http://www.itc.nl/research/_images/baku_oilfield.jpg
http://www.xenophilia.net/caucasus/caspianbeach.jpg

I have to dissapoint you, but Western Slav countries (central european) like Poland, Czech rep, Slovakia and Hungary (although not slavic) are culturally closer to Germany than to Russia, Ukraine, Belarus etc., because they were always more under Latin than Bisanthium civilization impact (different alphabet, calendar, religion, customs, etc. some of these divisons are now past, but many are still present). We cannot be simply called western Europe, as ofcourse we were also impacted by our eastern neighbours, but we can't be called eastern Europe as well. So central Europe is the most suitable here.
btw, if your division is based PRIMARILY on geography then have in mind that the center of europe is somewhere in Lithuania - so to the EAST from Poland, Czech rep. etc. From that point of view we are even WE :DMust we discuss it once again? Poland closer to Germany than to Ukraine, hahaha :)

for me, Istanbul is In

I just don't like that Baku has hundreds of old Soviet-style oil rights right on the coast of the Caspian sea. I saw a documentary on CBC about the pipeline being built from there to a Turkish port, and I found that although the city was great, the oil rigs ruined the whole atmosphere.


I mostly have seen the city center pictures, and the ancient city wall, and tower, which are very beautiful.

NOW, getting back to business !
Are we keeping Istanbul in the competition or not ?
Also, anyone else have cities to nominate ?!?
I'm STILL waiting for Kiev and Moscow pictures !!!No - Istanbul isn't in E.E.!
But I propose making new thread Warsaw vs. Istanbul - it'll be ok (not to make Turkey homeless :))

These oil towers etc. are not that much disturbing the sight of Baku - at least did not disturb back in 1986. I did not see them until we went in Caspian sea (to cross over to Turkmenistan)

Must we discuss it once again? Poland closer to Germany than to Ukraine, hahaha :)
No, all I want is a compromise, that it's in a CENTRAL europe (impacted by both sides - now in more developed cultural and political relations with the WE), not in the EASTERN (which I concider as typical bisanthium culture countries, culturally and politicaly more pro-russian). I'm not judging on which side is better, but it's just a fact - Czech rep., Poland, Slovakia and Hungary are Central European. If they are Eastern European than Russia is somewhere in Asia.

iMAriah - IMHO there shouldn't be Warsaw too. No doubt Warsaw has the best skylines (you can campare New York to Warsaw too, but no doubt NY would win - it's fact), but which city is 2nd? If there is Warsaw, we won't check it, because most of all will vote for Warsaw :).

No, all I want is a compromise, that it's in a CENTRAL europe (impacted by both sides - now in more developed cultural and political relations with the WE), not in the EASTERN (which I concider as typical bisanthium culture countries, culturally and politicaly more pro-russian). I'm not judging on which side is better, but it's just a fact - Czech rep., Poland, Slovakia and Hungary are Central European. If they are Eastern European than Russia is somewhere in Asia.You've still discussed... ;). Off topic.

No, all I want is a compromise, that it's in a CENTRAL europe (impacted by both sides - now in more developed cultural and political relations with the WE), not in the EASTERN (which I concider as typical bisanthium culture countries, culturally and politicaly more pro-russian). I'm not judging on which side is better, but it's just a fact - Czech rep., Poland, Slovakia and Hungary are Central European. If they are Eastern European than Russia is somewhere in Asia.
This isn't the problem now. This isn't the point of this thread. Unless you want Warsaw removed from the list, of course? If it makes you sleep better, you can call it "Best Modern Skyline of Eastern and Central Europe", and the rest of it can call it the normal name.

But just for the record, it's NOT a fact, so don't try to push off you OPINION as a FACT, because it's not. If it was a fact, EVERYONE would agree with you, but on the poll I had, the MAJORITY of people said that they consider Poland to be in Eastern Europe. If there is such a large disagreement, it's NOT a FACT!

iMAriah - IMHO there shouldn't be Warsaw too. No doubt Warsaw has the best skylines (you can campare New York to Warsaw too, but no doubt NY would win - it's fact), but which city is 2nd? If there is Warsaw, we won't check it, because most of all will vote for Warsaw :).
Don't worry, I thought of that before I made this topic. I have a special system! Everything will work out. ;)

Don't worry, I thought of that before I made this topic. I have a special system! Everything will work out. ;)Yeah :)

Istambul maby is in Europe but fore sure not in estern Europ.

Maby Tel-aviv and and Dubai are in E.E to? Heh.

Eastern Europe doesn't necessarily have to be "Northeastern Europe". ;)

"Southeastern Europe" is also Eastern Europe. :yes:

The poll had only two options West and East (31 for E, 25 for W - really huuuuge difference). And I'm speaking about Central.
I'm only putting my opinion about L3D3NI's division. Don't blame me for writing off-topic as it's only a response to an earlier post.
May the God be with you, I'm going asleep. :sleepy:

The poll had only two options West and East (31 for E, 25 for W - really huuuuge difference). And I'm speaking about Central.
I'm only putting my opinion about L3D3NI's division. Don't blame me for writing off-topic as it's only a response to an earlier post.
May the God be with you, I'm going asleep. :sleepy:
I didn't say it was a HUGE difference, but it shows that people are undecided to where Poland belongs, so don't say that YOUR opinion is a FACT! For the purpose of this poll, Central Europe is allowed to be included. THE END.

Istambul maby is in Europe but fore sure not in estern Europ.

Maby Tel-aviv and and Dubai are in E.E to? Heh.
Gosh, people will I have to create a poll to decide if Istanbul should be included in this post, or not ? :|

Eastern Europe doesn't necessarily have to be "Northeastern Europe". ;)

"Southeastern Europe" is also Eastern Europe. :yes:

http://www.dixienet.org/images/mainpage/los-title.gif

:D

Ok, poll created :|

WHERE DID YOU COME FROM, WHERE DID YOU GO

WHERE DID YOU COME FROM, COTTON EYE JOE

:fiddle:

http://dunyaturk.com/tr18/memocan_bogaz03.jpg

http://wowturkey.com/tr24/kemal_bereket_ahmet_afif_pasa_yalisi.jpg

http://dunyaturk.com/tr19/memocan_bogaz04.jpg

http://wowturkey.com/tr24/kemal_bereket_misir_konsoloslugu.jpg

http://dunyaturk.com/tr19/memocan_bogaz28.jpg

http://www.dunyaturk.com/tr01/p7116889.jpg

http://wowturkey.com/tr24/Burc_bogaz_6377.jpg

YEEEEEEEEHHHHHAAAAAWWW!!!

http://www.dixienet.org/images/mainpage/los-title.gif

SHUCKS!!! :D

http://www.southernindependenceparty.com/images/ourflag.gif

I assume those pics are from Istanbul, Asimov? I'd argue that they're not really SKYLINES. More like seafront-scape. :lol:

Those pictures show what we call Southern Belle ;)

What you rare doing on this forum Asimov is the easiest way to be banned. (I hope so) ;)
Please keep your complexes in your had. I’m not interested in watching photos from Istanbul in every thread on this forum.

Turkey is not European. Istanbul USED to be a European city when it was Byzantium. But modern Turkey is not a continuation of Greek Byzantium. It is the grandchild of islamic invaders that Poland, Austria, balkan Europeans fought for centuries. There are no ties to European culture. The only thing Turkey has in common with Europe is a tiny bit of land on the European continent. 95% of Turkey is in Asia, and its culture is Islamic/Middle Eastern. It is one of the richest Islamic country in the middle east so it has nicer architecture than most of the middle east. It is also Europeanized hence a European look to many buildings. But thats like calling Poland a North American country because there are a lot of McDonalds in Warsaw.

Eastern Europe here is as much a concept as a geographical location. You have several factors that distinguish EE countries and give them membership in the EE club:

1. A common historical perspective, be it fighting the Turkish invasions, be it association with the Habsburgs and or Russia, or most recently (and importantly) being behind the iron curtain. Turkey as you see does not share these historical experiences.

2. Christianity. be it catholic or orthodox, Eastern European cultures are built on the foundation of Christianity. Turkey is built on a totally alien religious foundation, Islam.

3. Racial. Most of the EE countries, though not all are Slavs. The ones that are not Slavs, have at least one of the above things going for them.

Turkey is not an EE country.

As for best skylines, Warsaw is winning this race.

Turkey is an arabic country and has nothing in common with Eastern Europe!!!

Turkey is not European. Istanbul USED to be a European city when it was Byzantium. But modern Turkey is not a continuation of Greek Byzantium. It is the grandchild of islamic invaders that Poland, Austria, balkan Europeans fought for centuries. There are no ties to European culture. The only thing Turkey has in common with Europe is a tiny bit of land on the European continent. 95% of Turkey is in Asia, and its culture is Islamic/Middle Eastern. It is one of the richest Islamic country in the middle east so it has nicer architecture than most of the middle east. It is also Europeanized hence a European look to many buildings. But thats like calling Poland a North American country because there are a lot of McDonalds in Warsaw.

Eastern Europe here is as much a concept as a geographical location. You have several factors that distinguish EE countries and give them membership in the EE club:

1. A common historical perspective, be it fighting the Turkish invasions, be it association with the Habsburgs and or Russia, or most recently (and importantly) being behind the iron curtain. Turkey as you see does not share these historical experiences.

2. Christianity. be it catholic or orthodox, Eastern European cultures are built on the foundation of Christianity. Turkey is built on a totally alien religious foundation, Islam.

3. Racial. Most of the EE countries, though not all are Slavs. The ones that are not Slavs, have at least one of the above things going for them.

Turkey is not an EE country.

As for best skylines, Warsaw is winning this race.

Yes, let us get rid of the Muslim undesireables :|. So where exactly does this place countries like Bosnia and Albania that meet just one or none at all of your points while completely going against the others. Should we maybe build giant walls around them so that they dont disturb the Christian nature of Europe?

Not that youre propagating a religiously discriminant Christian state, you're merely propagating a culturally "European" state. Of course by culturally European you mean a white Christian country. It is exactly this type of stupid logic that will be the death of the great concept that once was the EU.

As for your points: Islam is about as foreign to Christianity as Judaism, but I dont see anyone complaining about European Jews. Turks are racially indestinguishable from many Southern Europeans, and linguistically are closer to many South Slavic languages than these are to German, French, Spanish, Italian, etc. etc. And why should religion play such a decisive role in inclusion when it plays so little a role in actual politics?

Turkey is an arabic country and has nothing in common with Eastern Europe!!!

:rofl:

Turkey is about as Arabic as Russia is German. Maybe even less so since some Russian rulers were actually Germans, whereas with Turks and Arabs its the other way around.

Yes, let us get rid of the Muslim undesireables :|. So where exactly does this place countries like Bosnia and Albania that meet just one or none at all of your points while completely going against the others. Should we maybe build giant walls around them so that they dont disturb the Christian nature of Europe?

Not that youre propagating a religiously discriminant Christian state, you're merely propagating a culturally "European" state. Of course by culturally European you mean a white Christian country. It is exactly this type of stupid logic that will be the death of the great concept that once was the EU.

As for your points: Islam is about as foreign to Christianity as Judaism, but I dont see anyone complaining about European Jews. Turks are racially indestinguishable from many Southern Europeans, and linguistically are closer to many South Slavic languages than these are to German, French, Spanish, Italian, etc. etc. And why should religion play such a decisive role in inclusion when it plays so little a role in actual politics?

Tough. Deal with the realities. I am not propagating anything, merely stating the facts as I see them. Historically, Turkey has nothing to do with Europe much less Eastern Europe other than having been the enemy and invader for centuries. Albania and other muslim countries belong in the club because of a shared history as part of the old Soviet bloc. Turkey doesnt share a single point with other EE countries.

Tough. Deal with the realities. I am not propagating anything, merely stating the facts as I see them. Historically, Turkey has nothing to do with Europe much less Eastern Europe other than having been the enemy and invader for centuries. Albania and other muslim countries belong in the club because of a shared history as part of the old Soviet bloc. Turkey doesnt share a single point with other EE countries.

Deal with what realities? That there are a lot of ignorant people? Thats news. As for the Soviet bloc., so if the other Muslim countries in Europe hadn't been part of the Soviet bloc, then would they still be European?

Was Turkey an invader? Yes. But it left 350 years of lingustic, cultural, and political influences. Other invading groups cannot claim any such thing.

Calling Turkey European is oike calling America a pacific nation because they own Guam.

Turkey is an arabic country and has nothing in common with Eastern Europe!!!


Who is this guy and how old is he?Just look what he wrote in the previous pages.He's so funny :cheers:

Who is this guy and how old is he?Just look what he wrote in the previous pages.He's so funny :cheers:

that is what he does. Poland is in WE, Serbia is the poorest country of the world, Belgrade is provincial looking while Turkey has nothing to do with Europe. :( Just ignore it

Istanbul is part of europe this is clear to all of us I think?!Istanbul is located in southeastern Europe so it's part of the Balkan and also of eastern europe.
And the answer to the question "who has the best skyline in eastern europe " is : DE-FI-NI-TLY ISTANBUL.If the econmoy grows on like that Istanbul will even beat my second city Frankfurt but for that Istanbul needs much time.At least 10 years.
I think some of you are "scared" of the skyline as messiah said before and don't want any competitor ;)

that is what he does. Poland is in WE, Serbia is the poorest country of the world, Belgrade is provincial looking while Turkey has nothing to do with Europe. :( Just ignore it

I've been in Poland many times.I think Poland is overrated it looks much richer and more developed in the pictures which are posed here.Okay the city centers in the big cities like Warsaw are really modern and developed but the rest of the cities needs much time to develop.

I'm from Germany but believe me I'm not a typical german tourist who visits places like mallorca,alanya,garda etc... I've been in ALL of the eastern european countries (including Russia,Belarus,Greece,Turkey and Ukraine).In my opinion E.E is much nicer but you have financial problems if this is over the E.E will be the perl of the continent!

:wtf:

Who is this guy and how old is he?Just look what he wrote in the previous pages.He's so funny :cheers:
that is what he does. Poland is in WE, Serbia is the poorest country of the world, Belgrade is provincial looking while Turkey has nothing to do with Europe. :( Just ignore it


ok ignore me lets consider Turkey as Europe and Serbia as a rich country i hope you are satisfied with this, and I believe there are few people who think that Turkey belongs to Europe, I consider Turkey as a nice country but it cant be considered european, its obvieosly middle east and deal with this

ok ignore me lets consider Turkey as Europe and Serbia as a rich country i hope you are satisfied with this, and I believe there are few people who think that Turkey belongs to Europe, I consider Turkey as a nice country but it cant be considered european, its obvieosly middle east and deal with this

I don`t think you were saying that in 1985 when Serbia was producing computers in EI Nis. You were looking at us like something so western and special..... and I know I have to live with polish guy who got his 5 minutes. Serbia might not be rich but it is really bad from you to say it in the way like you are glad. I must ask again:"What is going to make your day when Serbia becomes developed as much as any other country in Europe?"

I've said it before and I've said it again. It can be said that Serbia is currently going through economic troubles, but in no way is it "poor".

I don`t think you were saying that in 1985 when Serbia was producing computers in EI Nis. You were looking at us like something so western and special..... and I know I have to live with polish guy who got his 5 minutes. Serbia might not be rich but it is really bad from you to say it in the way like you are glad. I must ask again:"What is going to make your day when Serbia becomes developed as much as any other country in Europe?"
well it was 20 years ago and i hope Serbia will be able to catch up to Poland one day. the matter is if we can consider Turkey as an European contry?

well it was 20 years ago and i hope Serbia will be able to catch up to Poland one day. the matter is if we can consider Turkey as an European contry?

well it is euroasian country. get a map. it clearly says europe all over that place where you can find Poland!!! Why are you saying that the part of Turkey (Edirne, Istanbul) is not European?

because only half of Instanbul belongs to europe!!and most of its teritory belongs to Asia!!!

But how then do you explain that Turkey is in all the European sports organizations including UEFA, Fiba Europe, etc. Even Israel is part of these organizations.

it has nothing in matter with this, I bet you can see the difference between europe and turkey

it has nth to matter with this, I bet you can see the difference between europe and turkey

whatever...

whatever...
Exactly, there's no point in arguing with him.

I just ask for a reasonable conversation, as I consider Turkey to be more middle east please give me some hard facts about turkey being an european contry I would really apreciate this

I just ask for a reasonable conversation, as I consider Turkey to be more middle east please give me some hard facts about turkey being an european contry I would really apreciate this

People did and all you keep referring to is their religious beliefs. Anyways, even if only a small part of Turkey is in Europe, Istanbul is in it and deserves to be in the poll.

ok but you have to understand that many ppl consider Turkey as a Middle East and its not only me!!! with all respect to this beautiful city!!!

http://worldatlas.com/webimage/countrys/eunewneb.gif

I just wonder how arrogant some poles became after they joined the EU.For the poorest country of the E.U you are too arrogant my friend.I just want to know how you will react when Turkey joins the EU some day and becomes one of the leaders of the E.U with a big population of 85 mil. and a strong economy.I'm sure you'll forget everything what you said here about Turkey ;)

Also to mention that Poland needs the help of the E.U while Turkey is grwoing without any help of the E.U.

http://worldatlas.com/webimage/countrys/eunewneb.gif


Isn't it a bit strange that south of Tukey (Cyprus) belongs to europe,west of Turkey (Romania,Bul,Greece) belongs to europe,east of Turkey (Armenia,Georgia) belongs to europe but not Turkey.Who decided this actually?Because some people draw the map of europe like that 100 years ago it is unfair not to accept Turkey as a european country.

ok but you have to understand that many ppl consider Turkey as a Middle East and its not only me!!! with all respect to this beautiful city!!!

Show me 10 people who consider Turkey as mideast!Maybe you need some kind of a education refrom in Poland,ha?

The point that I was trying to make is that Istanbul belongs to Europe. Anyways, I'm not sure how this was decided upon, but this is how it is officially regarded everywhere.

Maybe the Poles are scared that people will vote for Istanbul rather than Warsaw, but don't worry Poles there are more than enough of you to all vote for Warsaw and win. ;)

Maybe the Poles are scared that people will vote for Istanbul rather than Warsaw, but don't worry Poles there are more than enough of you to all vote for Warsaw and win. ;)

well said :cheers:

there was no bad intention by asking you about this, no we poles are proud of what we achieved and we dont consider turkey to be competition for us

Sisli plaza in Istanbul
http://wowturkey.com/tr25/Faruk_sisli.jpg

Turks are crayz.Why did they wait so long for the boom?Turkey is a strange country.
Nice pic btw,I didn't see these buildings in the other skyline photos before.Are you sure that this is not Ankara or some other city?

Turks are crayz.Why did they wait so long for the boom?Turkey is a strange country.
Nice pic btw,I didn't see these buildings in the other skyline photos before.Are you sure that this is not Ankara or some other city?

You posted in the thread about it!!! :weird:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=131484

I just wonder how arrogant some poles became after they joined the EU.For the poorest country of the E.U you are too arrogant my friend.I just want to know how you will react when Turkey joins the EU some day and becomes one of the leaders of the E.U with a big population of 85 mil. and a strong economy.I'm sure you'll forget everything what you said here about Turkey ;)

Also to mention that Poland needs the help of the E.U while Turkey is grwoing without any help of the E.U.

Strange how some Germans are arrogant on this board - earlier Vigo wrote that every Pole thinks about Germans the same way as Jacek (sic!) , now you are thinking that all Poles think about Europe future as Delfin. I can assure you that Poland is more eager to join Turkey to Europe than Germany (see last interview of Kwasniewski).
BTW you overestimate help Poland gained from EU. The visible improvements in infracture will be visible in Poland in next 3-5 years first money will be invested in next year. Until now the main source of foreign investments were private companies from the whole world not from PHARE funds that comparing to size of Polish economy were simply SMALL and not comparable with money invested in East Germany!

@Delfin_pl
You should understand that comparing Turkish people to Arabs can be treated by them as insult

@Paolo

Why is that insult? They consider do be in eE, but there is so little in common with eastern Europe, I could rather agree its somewhat southern, I said its only my opinion and I have a right to think like this ain't I ?

Istanbul

http://dunyaturk.com/tr13/kemal_bereket_camlicadan2.jpg

Edit: nvm

What about La Defense and Frankfurt, I think they are also East European aren't they?

Turkey is officially considered as an Asian country (every geographical world atlas says that) but european part of Istanbul is in Europe of course :colgate: . No Middle East - it's just your opinion delfin. Cyprus lies in Asia too...

European part of the Turkey lies on the Balkan Peninsula, so it's not Eastern Europe but "Balkans" so it's a wrong thread for Istanbul.

Central and Eastern Europe
http://www.rec.org/REC/Maps/map_gif/CEE_region.gif

European part of the Turkey lies on the Balkan Peninsula, so it's not Eastern Europe but "Balkans" so it's a wrong thread for Istanbul.

If Balkans isn`t EE what is it?

If Balkans isn`t EE what is it?

Just two countries - Greece and European Turkey lie on the (geographically called) "Balkans" - it's a common label which is used by a geographers to describe E Turkey and Greece location.

http://images.webster-dictionary.org/wiki/b/bc/Eastern-Europe-small.png

It is more like this
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v360/Singidunum/CEE_region.jpg

Poles hate turks because of that:
http://www.sky.s64.pl/home/Wwa/rp07.jpg
and that:
http://www.sky.s64.pl/home/Plany/ec01.jpg

Turks just want to have their revenge on us for defeating them under Vienna in 1683 and build their ugly banal buildings in our towns. And you want us to concider them European?! No f*cking way :P

BTW, I see this becomes some kind of a 'blame Poland' thread.
Yes, we are the poorest state of the EU, and yes we will take a lot of money from it, but saying that turkey has strongest economy than ours is quite bullshit.
They have at least as weak economy as we, a lot of peasants, and a lot of people who will go and work in Western Europe (just see the number of Turks working now in WE, before Turkey even joining the Union!).
I also wouldn't underestimate the cultural and religious differences between Turkey and (the rest of) Europe (excluding France ;]). They are big, and they will cause much more problems than Poland entering the EU.
And I DEFINITELY wouldn't call them Eastern European. If european at all...

It is more like this
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v360/Singidunum/CEE_region.jpg

Nice, but original version of this map looks like this one - yours is photoshoped.

http://www.rec.org/REC/Maps/map_gif/CEE_region.gif

Istanbul is part of europe this is clear to all of us I think?!Istanbul is located in southeastern Europe so it's part of the Balkan and also of eastern europe.


You're wrong my friend - ask anybody wiser than you and you'll find out the thruth. Do you have any geographical atlases at home ? Istanbul is a part of Balkan Region, but Eastern Europe means something totally different.

You're wrong my friend - ask anybody wiser than you and you'll find out the thruth. Do you have any geographical atlases at home ? Istanbul is a part of Balkan Region, but Eastern Europe means something totally different.

are you sreiously saying that Istanbul is completely asian city? :hilarious:

According to this map Europe ends on the eastern border of Poland, doesn't it? :lol:

http://www.rec.org/REC/Maps/map_gif/CEE_region.gif

Yes, we are the poorest state of the EU

Latvia?

are you sreiously saying that Istanbul is completely asian city? :hilarious:

Asian part is Asian, European is european - is it so hard to understand ?
But it doesn't change anything - still geographically speaking european Istanbul lies in "Balkans" area.

According to this map Europe ends on the eastern border of Poland, doesn't it? :lol:

http://www.rec.org/REC/Maps/map_gif/CEE_region.gif

But it contains the area which is shown on the second map ;)

Look what sais wikipedia on-line encyclopedia:

Delfin has had a truth :D

http://pl.wikipedia.org/upload/4/41/300px-Europe_colour_coded.bmp

Map colouring is based on strict geographic definitions. Often the various regions include different countries than those on the map. The inclusion or not of various countries in each region is described below:

Western Europe (Red)
Western Europe is always assumed to include: the British Isles (United Kingdom, Ireland), the French Region (France, Monaco) and Benelux (Belgium, Netherlands, Luxembourg). It usually also includes Germany, though geographically the country may be more central European. In some circumstances, it refers to the entire western half of Europe, including the Iberian Peninsula (Spain, Portugal, Andorra), the Italian peninsula (Italy, San Marino, Vatican City), the Nordic Countries or Scandinavia (Norway, Sweden, Finland, Iceland, Denmark) and the Alpine Countries (Germany, Switzerland, Liechtenstein, Austria, Slovenia). Used in a historical or political sense (referring to Cold War divisions), this term may even include Greece and Turkey.


Central Europe (Blue)
Central Europe is not perhaps as common a term as Western or Eastern Europe. Most of the countries included in the definition are often labelled Western or Eastern. A definition of Central Europe usually includes the Visegrad Group (Poland, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Hungary) and often also the Alpine Countries (Switzerland, Liechtenstein, Austria, Slovenia and sometimes Germany). According to the most recent usage, Central Europe may even be those countries that joined the European Union on June 1, 2004. This would mean Poland, the Czech Republic, Slovakia and Hungary (the Visegrad Four), Estonia, Lithuania and Latvia (the Baltic States), Slovenia, Cyprus and Malta.


Eastern Europe (Orange)
Similarly to Western Europe, the term Eastern Europe may be used in a strict or broad sense. It includes the European CIS States (Belarus, Ukraine, Moldova, Russia), and not seldom the Baltic States (Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania) and Poland. It often includes the Caucasus or Transcaucasian countries (Georgia, Azerbaijan, Armenia), though these are often also regarded as part of Asia. In a broader economic/political context, it may also encompass all of the Visegrad Group (Poland, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Hungary) and the Balkans (Croatia, Bosnia & Herzegovina, Serbia & Montenegro, Albania, Macedonia, Greece, Romania, Bulgaria).


Northern Europe (Purple)
On the map, "Northern Europe" is depicted as only encompassing the Nordic Countries (i.e. "Scandinavia" in the widest sense: Norway, Sweden, Finland, Iceland, Denmark). The term Northern Europe does, however, usually cover a much larger area, in fact an arbitrary part of Europe north of the Alps. Typically, it includes the British Isles (the United Kingdom and Ireland), Benelux (Belgium, the Netherlands and Luxembourg), Northern France, Germany, often all the Baltic countries (Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania), sometimes Poland, and on occasion even Russia.


Southern Europe (Green)
Southern Europe is a term used in much the same ways as Northern Europe. It includes the Iberian Peninsula (Spain, Portugal, Andorra), the Italian peninsula (Italy, Vatican City, San Marino) and the Balkan Peninsula (Croatia, Bosnia & Herzegovina, Serbia & Montenegro, Albania, Macedonia, Greece, Romania, Bulgaria). Usually the Mediterranean States (Cyprus, Malta) and Asia Minor (i.e. Turkey) are also included. In a cultural sense, southern France may be included.

Different Eastern Europe maps but none of them contains Turkey...

Another source:
http://www.geohive.com/img/ee.gif
Eastern Europe
The following countries are part of Eastern Europe, to get more detailed data on them, click accordingly:

Belarus
Bulgaria
Czech Republic
Hungary
Moldova
Poland
Romania
Russia
Slovakia
Ukraine

What about the ex-Yugoslavia? Yay, we're part of Western or Central Europe. :jk: :righton:

What does regional environment center, has to do with defining borders of Ukraine?

If it was, then it shows that Ukraine is not part of Europe? :runaway:
http://www.rec.org/REC/Maps/map_gif/CEE_region.gif

What does regional environment center, has to do with defining borders of Ukraine?

If it was, then it shows that Ukraine is not part of Europe? :runaway:
http://www.rec.org/REC/Maps/map_gif/CEE_region.gif

I reckon that only CE is marked on the map. But I have found a source which divides Eastern Europe into : Strictly Eastern Europe, Central Europe and East Eastern Europe ;) Sounds funny but it might be true.
Remember. From the begining of our conversation about Istanbul location, we've been talikng about geographical definitions (no cultural differences or similarities are included).

What about the ex-Yugoslavia? Yay, we're part of Western or Central Europe. :jk: :righton:

Without doubts --> You're the part of CE.

--------

next bla bla bla :D:D:D

"The Republic of Turkey is a country with territory in both southern Europe and the southwestern part of Asia, until 1922 known as the Ottoman Empire."

lmao, we're "central european"

People, if you STILL want to argue about Istanbul, there is a WHOLE thread for it - the Istanbul 1.5 thread. I suggest you move your Turkey/Istanbul discussions there, because this topic is not for this!

Here you go: http://skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=131365 ARGUE IN THERE!!

Poles hate turks because of that:
http://www.sky.s64.pl/home/Wwa/rp07.jpg
and that:
http://www.sky.s64.pl/home/Plany/ec01.jpg

Turks just want to have their revenge on us for defeating them under Vienna in 1683 and build their ugly banal buildings in our towns. And you want us to concider them European?! No f*cking way :P

BTW, I see this becomes some kind of a 'blame Poland' thread.
Yes, we are the poorest state of the EU, and yes we will take a lot of money from it, but saying that turkey has strongest economy than ours is quite bullshit.
They have at least as weak economy as we, a lot of peasants, and a lot of people who will go and work in Western Europe (just see the number of Turks working now in WE, before Turkey even joining the Union!).
I also wouldn't underestimate the cultural and religious differences between Turkey and (the rest of) Europe (excluding France ;]). They are big, and they will cause much more problems than Poland entering the EU.
And I DEFINITELY wouldn't call them Eastern European. If european at all...

If you had the money we would build something like that in your Warsaw :

Isbank Istanbul
http://www.dunyaturk.com/tr01/isbnk001.jpg


Garanti Bank,Istanbul
http://dunyaturk.com/tr04/garanti05.jpg

Tekfen Tower,Istanbul
http://dunyaturk.com/tr18/Zafer_Tekfen_Gece.jpg

Diamonds of Istanbul
http://www.arkitera.com/forum/attachment.php?postid=13433

If you had the money we would build something like that in your Warsaw :

Isbank Istanbul
http://www.dunyaturk.com/tr01/isbnk001.jpg

Tekfen Tower,Istanbul
http://dunyaturk.com/tr18/Zafer_Tekfen_Gece.jpg



Those are even worse than Reform Plaza in Warsaw :D

Frankfurt has an ugly skyline!So is it true because I told you this?No it's not!These buildings aren't ungly either only because you told this.

Frankfurts, Istanbuls,.... Lets get back to Eastern Europe ;)

Frankfurts population is mainly East European...so maybe we can count it?:D

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!
PLEASE Don't start. ;) :lol:

I suggest to start the Poll!!!

Why do you say Poland is the poorest in EU? I thought it was Latvia.

If you had the money we would build something like that in your Warsaw :

Isbank Istanbul
http://www.dunyaturk.com/tr01/isbnk001.jpg


Garanti Bank,Istanbul
http://dunyaturk.com/tr04/garanti05.jpg

Tekfen Tower,Istanbul
http://dunyaturk.com/tr18/Zafer_Tekfen_Gece.jpg


I guess it's the only good thing about not having the money.

I guess it's the only good thing about not having the money.

I was about to write the same :) Let's quarrel here :D

http://skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=131365

We want poll.
http://images.google.pl/images?q=tbn:VH0tnXawDmcJ:pub.exeter.gov.uk/asp/images/poll.jpg

This table shows it is not the poorest one! What is the gdp of Warsaw?

Slovenia $ 18,300
Malta $ 17,700
Cyprus $ 16,000
Czech R. $ 15,700
Hungary $ 13,900
Slovakia $ 13,300
Estonia $ 12,300
Lithuania $ 11,200
Poland $ 11,000
Latvia $ 10,100

I heard that Warsaw's is about 120% of EU avarage, does anybody have some source with data?

it would be 30.000$

I doubt it because average of USA is 36.000

Anyways interesting is to see that in Belgrade theater ticket costs 5-10 euros while on Iceland cheapest one is 50.

Avarage GDP per capita in warsaw (PPS - Purchasing Power Standart) in 2001 was 21385 EUR, that is 100,45% of the EU avarage. In those 3 years, Polish (especially Warsaw's) economy grew faster than the EU's, so I guess that 120% is quite possible.

In 2003 Warsaw's GDP was 136% of EU average.

@Jacek: source?

it would be 34.000!!!

Since EU average is 25.000 today.

If I was a Pole from other part of country which is locked on 11.000 I wouldn`t be very happy...

Wait, if people in Warsaw have salaries of 34000, while the average of the country is 11000, then that would have to mean some areas of Poland have much much less than even 11000. What is the population of Warsaw?

If I was a Pole from other part of country which is locked on 11.000 I wouldn`t be very happy...

Hehe, they are not to happy, trust me. Most people in Poland dont like Warsaw at all.

As to sub 11,000 incomes, yes, in rural Poland it is quite common. Its a totally different world.

What does purchasing power parity have to do with incomes per year ? PPP is a measure of many factors. Salaries in Warsaw oscilate around 3500ZL per month (1000$) while the national average in Poland is 2500ZL (700$ per month). Wages in Warsaw are higher because costs of living are higher as well.

PPP of 11000$ for Poland does not take "grey economy" into account. It is 16% in Poland, 8% in Slovakia and 6 % in Czech Republic. Real GDP in Poland is infact higher than those in Baltic countries and Slovakia.

I guess this what Jacek mentioned is in PPS (Purchasing Power Standard). It means that it includes the price level of the country - if we earn twice less than germans for an egzample, but our prices are avaragely also twice lower, than our GDP in PPS is the same. It may be a little bit tricky if we want to compare objective factors, but I guess it's quite fair.
And i guess that the 11,000 is not in the PPS. Although I have no idea...

[EDIT] Ofcourse GDP != salaries. It's just a little simplification ;]

^^^

11.000 is for sure in PPS ;)

Wait, if people in Warsaw have salaries of 34000, while the average of the country is 11000, then that would have to mean some areas of Poland have much much less than even 11000. What is the population of Warsaw?


Generally You are right , but you must also know that Warsaw is olny less than 5% of whole Polish population.That means Situation in rural area isnt so hopeless. Ofcourse country side is already biggest problem of Polish state (Poland has the bisgest percentage of framers in EU), but I think life standard will increase very strongly - because of integration with EU.

So iMariah - Let's create the poll at last!!!

What does purchasing power parity have to do with incomes per year ? PPP is a measure of many factors. Salaries in Warsaw oscilate around 3500ZL per month (1000$) while the national average in Poland is 2500ZL (700$ per month). Wages in Warsaw are higher because costs of living are higher as well.

PPP of 11000$ for Poland does not take "grey economy" into account. It is 16% in Poland, 8% in Slovakia and 6 % in Czech Republic. Real GDP in Poland is infact higher than those in Baltic countries and Slovakia.

@ Jacek . I know that Poland with Italy have the biggest grey economy in European Union, but I guess this is not reason to be proud!!! It is another big problem of our state.

Can a mod please add "Part 1" to the title. I tried editing it, but it doesn't show up. Thanks.

done :)



I wish I was a mod ... when do the mod elections start ;) )


You wanna be a mod ?

@ Jacek . I know that Poland with Italy have the biggest grey economy in European Union, but I guess this is not reason to be proud!!! It is another big problem of our state.

Hardly a need for 3 exclamation points. I only point out facts and try to use them to present a better picture, I am not sure where you found pride in my statements.

It is Poland and Greece that have largest grey economies, not Italy.

I've read that Italy , but there are many sources and in this case there isn't perfect stats- Anyway It isn't so improtant.
If there hadn't been pride ,forgive me my mistake!!!

Hey I didn't know that Warsaw had such a big and modern skyline!

Hey I didn't know that Warsaw had such a big and modern skyline!
and it is getting better and better!!!

You wanna be a mod ?

Why not? Who doesn't? ;)