Did China Just Invent the 21st Century's Coolest Technology?
Posted by CBSNews.com
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-501465_162-20030150-501465.html

Scientists in China say they have successfully produced a model Maglev train that can travel as fast as a plane, according to a report in a Chinese newspaper.

Shuai Bin, a vice dean at the country's Southwest Jiaotong University, told the Global Times that the train would allow passengers to make the trip from Beijing to Guangzhou in under two hours. He said the vacuum magnetic suspension train model reached speeds of between 600 and 1,200 kilometers per hour. By comparison, a flight covering the same distance takes three hours.

If the claim is true, that would mean the Chinese have topped the speed record set by the highest recorded speed of a Maglev train - 581 kilometers per hour - in Japan.

Maglev is industry shorthand for a new class of high-speed trains that use electromagnets to essentially hover over a guideway. The train is propelled by the force of the magnetic field created by electrified coils. Last year, Chengdu Aircraft Industrial (Group) Co. finished work on a Maglev train said to reach speeds up to 500 kilometers per hour.

It's still unclear when real-world implementation of the new technology is planned. You can read more about the story here.

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Has anyone else got any more information? Apparently the full-size prototype is still 3-4years away.

^^ It is not really their invention, but they (the Chinese) might indeed be the first to commercialise it. Will see, but regardless who does it first, it's ubercool.

no, the swiss federal institute of technology did
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlmm2SOP0Ho

i dont mind china doing this at all, but i hate the propaganda machine and the fanboys who claim it as a chinese idea

it isnt

Lol.

The Chinese haven't claim anything. It's CBS News that put it in the title.

===

Reminds me of the brouhaha over Tiger Mothers.

Amy Chua was apparently really surprised when her essay came out on WSJ as "Why Chinese Mothers Are Superior"

Come onnnn, you know China is cool. They are to, cool!

China is sooooooo "invented everything"...

Freight transport Jan 6th 2011 | from PRINT EDITION
Put that in your pipe and poke it
A visionary idea for modernising the goods-distribution network
http://www.economist.com/node/17848523?story_id=17848523&fsrc=rss


http://media.economist.com/images/images-magazine/2011/01/08/st/20110108_stp003.jpg
Pipe dreams

ENTHUSIASTS of the digital economy sometimes forget that bits are not everything. However important information is in transforming business, most of what is actually bought and sold is still physical goods, and those goods need to be delivered to the customer. Unlike information technology, though, freight transport has not evolved much during the past few decades. It takes only a few seconds to choose and buy something from an online store, but several days for it then to reach the purchaser. That process also burns oil, contributes to traffic jams and makes the planet’s atmosphere a little warmer by releasing carbon dioxide.

Freight transport could thus use some fresh ideas. Or at least a new version of an old idea. And that is exactly what Franco Cotana, an engineering physicist at the University of Perugia, in Italy, has in mind. He proposes to revive, with a modern twist, an extinct technology called the pneumatic pipe.

In the late 19th and early 20th century, underground tubes were used in many cities to speed up the transport of mail between post offices and government buildings. Letters were put into capsules, the capsules into the tubes, and compressed air was then used to push the capsules from one station to the next. It was not uncommon at the time to think that pneumatic post of this sort would develop into a wide network, like telephony or electricity. In 1900 Charles Emory Smith, then postmaster-general of the United States, wrote that by the end of the decade he expected the “extension of the pneumatic tube system to every house, thus insuring the immediate delivery of mail as soon as it arrives in the city”.

The reason this never happened, Dr Cotana observes, is that air compressors are expensive to operate and maintain, and the energy they produce dissipates quickly, so capsules can cover only short distances. But technology now exists to overcome those limitations.

Pipenet, a system Dr Cotana patented in 2003 and has been developing since then, is based on a network of metal pipes about 60cm (two feet) in diameter. Instead of air pressure, it uses magnetic fields. These fields, generated by devices called linear synchronous motors, both levitate the capsules and propel them forward. The capsules are routed through the network by radio transponders incorporated within them. At each bifurcation of the pipe, the transponder communicates the capsule’s destination and the magnets pull it to the left or the right, as appropriate. Air pumps are involved, but their role is limited to creating a partial vacuum in the pipes in order to reduce resistance to the capsules’ movement. This way, Dr Cotana calculates, capsules carrying up to 50kg of goods could travel at up to 1,500kph—so you could be wearing a pair of jeans or taking photographs with a new camera only a couple of hours after placing your order.

The concept of rapid maglev travel, as this trick is known, is not new. The ultra-fast rail line that connects Shanghai with its airport works on just this principle. But maglev has never really taken off, mainly because of the expense. The novelty of Dr Cotana’s approach is that by scaling things down from passenger trains to small capsules, that expense is drastically reduced. Also, the tubes could use existing rights of way alongside roads and railways. In these ways, the cost could, Dr Cotana reckons, be kept below €2.5m per kilometre ($5m per mile). That is a fifth to a tenth of the cost of building a high-speed railway.

Whether that is cheap enough for the system to be viable remains to be seen. The team has, however, completed a feasibility study for a pipeline network in Perugia, a medieval city whose narrow, steep streets make existing means of goods delivery particularly inefficient. This study suggests the system would repay the cost of building it within seven years.

Nor is Italy the only ancient country that might benefit from Dr Cotana’s revivalist technology. His team is now working with researchers at Tongji University in China who are interested in trying Pipenet there. Rather as Africa ignored fixed-line telephony and jumped straight to mobiles, so China might benefit from “latecomer advantage” in the field of freight transport. Charles Emory Smith’s prophecy may thus come true—just a century late, and on the other side of the Pacific.

I read about such Swiss project when I was a kid in 1980ies - they were even making some preliminary cost assessments.

this is worthless without pictures, but if indeed they did it! then yes it is cool!

Come onnnn, you know China is cool. They are to, cool!

Is not their (Chinese) fault that you in your country still use the rail network that was build in the 19th century by (oh the irony) Chinese slaves.

I don't see any reason to doubt the article, but it's not very clear that they tested a model rather than something full-size.

In China, public figures and the media are *very* careful about what statements they make. Otherwise they lose a lot of face when they get caught out, and that is a really big deal.

Is not their (Chinese) fault that you in your country still use the rail network that was build in the 19th century by (oh the irony) Chinese slaves.

I think they were not officially slaves... they did got wages, but had to pay to the company for everything, with overpriced prices, thus, acquiring a "debt" that forced them to work more... as I said, not OFFICIALLY slaves. But slaves indeed.

They weren't slaves. They were jsut paid slave wages. Every nations go through them. It's only the ones that already went through that period that have amnesia and complain about other nations doing the same.

It was just in a matter of speaking, not to make a big deal out of it.

In China, public figures and the media are *very* careful about what statements they make. Otherwise they lose a lot of face when they get caught out, and that is a really big deal.

So I guess somebody has lost a lot of 'face' over this story.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12321492

It's a funny story (the copyright owners might not be amused) which isn't quite worth its own thread so I'll post it here :D

Is not their (Chinese) fault that you in your country still use the rail network that was build in the 19th century by (oh the irony) Chinese slaves.
Altin, Altin.....even though there was discriminatory wage pay it wasn't "slavery". Unless if ethnicity based wage page is now akin to slavery. Which if it is I can think of more then a few places that are guilty of slavery today give far more egregious examples of such wage disparity. ;)

The Chinese were paid approximately 4/5th the wages that the Irish got. I can think of some places right now where migrants would probably love to get 4/5th of the average wage or salary in similar positions as the natives. The construction migrants from South Asia who make less then 1/10th the average media salary in Dubai for one.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/tcrr/peopleevents/p_cprr.html
......Less Pay
The Chinese teams were organized into groups of 20 under one white foreman; as the difficulty of construction increased, so often did the size of the gangs. Initially, Chinese employees received wages of $27 and then $30 a month, minus the cost of food and board. In contrast, Irishmen were paid $35 per month, with board provided........

No

Considering there's still about 90 years left in the century, I would say hopefully not.

Come onn

The Chinese were paid approximately 4/5th the wages that the Irish got. I can think of some places right now where migrants would probably love to get 4/5th of the average wage or salary in similar positions as the natives. The construction migrants from South Asia who make less then 1/10th the average media salary in Dubai for one.
The thing is the Chinese workers faced multiple deductions on their paychecks and were left with a pittance for the work they did. Work that was often the most dangerous and deadly (like tunnel blasting with primitive tools). At best it was indentured servitude.

No they did not, we still have 89 years to go to invent the coolest technology of this century. Still pretty cool though.

Come onn

:lol:

I'll believe it when I see it

Any fanboy travelled with the maglev before?
Do you really want to sit for 2 hours in such a train. It`s loud and it shakes a lot, but still it`s cool. But only for a 10 minute ride.

Is not their (Chinese) fault that you in your country still use the rail network that was build in the 19th century by (oh the irony) Chinese slaves.

Whats so bad about US rail. Think it is mostly freight instead of passenger so it does not have to be that quick. It gets the job done.

You got to see this Video of US freight train - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xha_9F4ABKo

Altin, Altin.....

Read post 14.

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Doesn't seem very 'loud or shaky' to me.

Any fanboy travelled with the maglev before?
Do you really want to sit for 2 hours in such a train. It`s loud and it shakes a lot, but still it`s cool. But only for a 10 minute ride.

airplanes are also loud and shake a lot.

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Doesn't seem very 'loud or shaky' to me.

Yes is Geman Transrapid technology bought by the Chinese........ Though the Chinese did NOT manage to byu the Japanese maglev technology...

In truth I have to say that, historically speaking, the Chinese did NOT invent neither the train with wheels nor the maglev, and the idea of magnetic levitation trains, or maglev levitating in partially vacuumed tubes (vacutrains) is NOT Chinese....

The exaggerations of the Regimen Propaganda should be confined to China, otherwise the Chinese might "lose face"....

Any fanboy travelled with the maglev before?
Do you really want to sit for 2 hours in such a train. It`s loud and it shakes a lot, but still it`s cool. But only for a 10 minute ride.

Yeah i've been on it too.

I did indeed notice it "wobbled" a lot, but mainly in the (wide) corners.
Maybe it was super windy? Maybe people that haven't noticed weren't on it during the "fast hours" (431 km/h).

I would like to see it extended to Hongqiao, though. Seems like a big missing link in Shanghai's transport plans: quick travel between Hongqiao and Pudong.

I would guess, with economics taken into account, there should be a mathematical equation of speed vs. air pressure?

It seems at 0.1 bar, 900km/h is the optimal speed in terms of fuel economy (refer. a jet aircraft). So, to get 1200km/h or even the provisional 8000km/h, how high should the vacuum be?

I would guess, with economics taken into account, there should be a mathematical equation of speed vs. air pressure?

It seems at 0.1 bar, 900km/h is the optimal speed in terms of fuel economy (refer. a jet aircraft).

The speed vs. air pressure of a jet aircraft is constrained by the need of wing to provide lift. Private jets fly as fast as commercial, but at lower pressure, because for the same wing size they weigh less.

Love this debate about slave labor. So... everything made in China is slave labor but the coolies that were forced into opium addiction so they would have to pay back their wages to the drug dealer who was also the railroad company isn't slave labor? And let's not forget those poor Irish who would throw dynamite into Chinese camps or into tunnels where Chinese were digging for the railroad for laughs. Or how about how they instigated America's first law that discriminated against Chinese entering the US simply on the basis of race. Ever hear of the Chinese Exclusion Act? Oh yeah, the Chinese had it so much better than the Irish.

Love this debate about slave labor. So... everything made in China is slave labor but the coolies that were forced into opium addiction so they would have to pay back their wages to the drug dealer who was also the railroad company isn't slave labor? And let's not forget those poor Irish who would throw dynamite into Chinese camps or into tunnels where Chinese were digging for the railroad for laughs. Or how about how they instigated America's first law that discriminated against Chinese entering the US simply on the basis of race. Ever hear of the Chinese Exclusion Act? Oh yeah, the Chinese had it so much better than the Irish.

give it a fucking rest already, youre just fueling this stupid argument :ohno:



Anyways; Is a maglev in a vacuum tube really economically viable? I mean, for connections like Beijing-Shanghai-Hongkong i could see this being paid off but anywhere else, nowayman.

But apart from that, isn't it much much cheaper to develope something like this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reaction_Engines_A2)? I mean just ask yourself how expensive one kilometre of vacuum tube must be. I guess it would be much much more than current HSR, hence much more epensive than developing and maintaining a fleet of hypersonic jets running on hydrogen.

Just something to think about :cheers:

The story was an exaggeration by CBS, its unlikely a model has been built already, although it is true that its an official project with rather large funding that will produce a model in the next 2 to 3 years.

In term of cost and safety, if those problems have been solved then we'd already be riding on them rather than looking at someone doing research, its the whole point of the research. Coming up with an idea make you a science fiction writer, its actually solving problems with those ideas that make you a real inventor, i.e. if Chinese scientists built a working warp drive, neither Gene Roddenberry nor Einstein have any claim on originality.

I would guess, with economics taken into account, there should be a mathematical equation of speed vs. air pressure?

It seems at 0.1 bar, 900km/h is the optimal speed in terms of fuel economy (refer. a jet aircraft). So, to get 1200km/h or even the provisional 8000km/h, how high should the vacuum be?

0.9 bar isn't that high a vacuum to structurally support, pressure chambers on the range of 100s of bars are pretty common, although you do need to design it more carefully than positive pressure chambers because of buckling.

Aircraft speeds are mostly constrained by the Mach number (around 0.85), drag approaching transonic region behave very differently than in the compressible region. Mach number in a high vacuum is tricky to calculate, but it is non-linearly different from aircraft so you can't make a direct comparison between the two, although sufficient to say the theory isn't complicated and its not going to be the main technical issue here (hence why it was, and can be first thought up decades ago).

Anyways; Is a maglev in a vacuum tube really economically viable? I mean, for connections like Beijing-Shanghai-Hongkong i could see this being paid off but anywhere else, nowayman.

But apart from that, isn't it much much cheaper to develope something like this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reaction_Engines_A2)? I mean just ask yourself how expensive one kilometre of vacuum tube must be. I guess it would be much much more than current HSR, hence much more epensive than developing and maintaining a fleet of hypersonic jets running on hydrogen.

Just something to think about :cheers:

A2 is not IMO particularly realistic. And once done, it would give limited benefit at high cost.

Consider Beijing-Guangzhou, and compare it with Washington-Dallas. Braniff did fly Concordes Washington-Dallas. At Mach 0,95. Not particularly useful, and very expensive. Tupolev did say that Soviet Union was well suited for supersonic transport because population is sparse and telephones do not work. Tu-144 did fly commercially Moscow-Alma-Ata (about the distance Urumqi-Beijing). While it cast boom over Soviet lands, it was not much benefit, and expensive to fly, maintain and develop.

Could the Chinese build their copy of Concorde and Tu-144? Yes. They could make it a bit better - more efficient, longer range, less noisy on takeoff. But not much better. A Chinese Concorde shall still have the same disadvantages behind new B747-8 or A380 like the original had behind then B747-200 - half the range, five times the fuel cost, much louder and more expensive to maintain, build and develop.

A Chinese Concorde would not fly domestic. If they have it, they´d fly it to America, and if Russia likes booms then perhaps Europe.

probably no country has it in prototype yet, no country has built it yet. only idea, so a country that built it first can claim it. without building it, idea is just that... an idea. swiss can float or propose but did it build it or not?

China is sooooooo "invented everything"...

are you jealous with Asian success,are'nt you? Japan did the same in 60's by copying all American products, and now the Japanese are inventor in most everything , China soon will be an inventor country, like it or not you might have all Chinese invention product in your home soon.

We asians very proud with China success, because Chinese make another Asians countries prosperous too, its different with Western countries which to make themselves richer, show off, egoist and always look down to Asians

This is thread is about a stupid article that unnecessarily exaggerates a technology that China might or might not pursue in the future, if it's propaganda, it's CBS who is doing it. Considering the discussion here that are mostly OT, I think it's time to close the thread.

I hope China goes ahead but I am deeply skeptical on the technology. My concerns are mostly about the nastiness of creating and maintaining vacuum in massive tube systems.

We asians very proud with China success, because Chinese make another Asians countries prosperous too, its different with Western countries which to make themselves richer, show off, egoist and always look down to Asians

Yes, westerners, especially Americans, always bully Asians. They're pretty insecure and can't accept the truth that Asia as a whole is rising :cheers:

Yes, westerners, especially Americans, always bully Asians. They're pretty insecure and can't accept the truth that Asia as a whole is rising :cheers:
Generalizations. :ohno:

Generalizations. :ohno:

That's why there is a word called "RACISM" in the western dictionary

Yes, westerners, especially Americans, always bully Asians. They're pretty insecure and can't accept the truth that Asia as a whole is rising :cheers:

Yes, those poor asians! Westerners are evil! They are like white devilghosts! Boooo westerners! Asians are they best, they never boast! They are the best in the world and they are modest! Yay! :banana:

That's why there is a word called "RACISM" in the western dictionary

I am in awe of your blatant ignorance and pure stpidity, most impressive!
Quite surprising youre still alive, giving the fact that you are such a naive fool.



This is thread is about a stupid article that unnecessarily exaggerates a technology that China might or might not pursue in the future, if it's propaganda, it's CBS who is doing it. Considering the discussion here that are mostly OT, I think it's time to close the thread.
Anyways, ^^^^ /thread

Yes, those poor asians! Westerners are evil! They are like white devilghosts! Boooo westerners! Asians are they best, they never boast! They are the best in the world and they are modest! Yay! :banana:

yes,i agree westerners are generally a very hypocritical and hostile race.i am not a westerner but am of northern european descent so im different to them.down with western society and good luck to asian countries.

This thread has descended into another one of those nationalist crapfights. I wonder if any of you participating in this east vs west battle are adults. Seriously, the comments some of you make are just so so stupid and not to mention racist.

I agree that its gone way OT. Before Mika Montwald jumps in on this...
MODERATORS PLS CLOSE THIS THREAD!

^^ Yeah, I agree. Time to close. If there is railway development in China use the appropriate threads.