World SLUMscape [Archive] - SkyscraperCity

Thunderflip

September 5th, 2004, 07:23 PM

Bangkok slums
http://www.telesisjournals.com/bangkok/_borders/riverb.jpg
http://pro.corbis.com/images/TH001610.jpg?size=67&uid={fb4c713c-0423-4439-9e34-62ab27db6700}
http://pro.corbis.com/images/TH001515.jpg?size=67&uid={5432409e-22cb-4d0f-9636-49cb4b59dfe9}
http://pro.corbis.com/images/TH001656.jpg?size=67&uid={5744a8f1-dd97-4c11-9fd7-6493c275571f}
http://pro.corbis.com/images/TH001516.jpg?size=67&uid={f7d93258-c1ec-45fe-8305-7d7dabf7894b}

Jakarta slums
http://pro.corbis.com/images/IH058906.jpg?size=67&uid={88a8531e-1c0c-4293-bc4f-dc0493354c0e}
http://pro.corbis.com/images/DWF15-809099.jpg?size=67&uid={cbd1e07c-de3e-4dfc-9e5f-0024c90f2819}
http://pro.corbis.com/images/BB003279.jpg?size=67&uid={ed17668d-ad34-431c-987a-0daa0e438992}
http://pro.corbis.com/images/IH073976.jpg?size=67&uid={c418b4cc-8650-404a-b0c1-0efa2373d9bc}
http://pro.corbis.com/images/IH058901.jpg?size=67&uid={0f75d31d-f2fc-4662-b2ae-5439662442a2}
http://pro.corbis.com/images/IH073981.jpg?size=67&uid={161ac05c-f258-4682-9944-5c08c804c1fd}
http://pro.corbis.com/images/IH058900.jpg?size=67&uid={51f9517e-1eda-4144-be7d-f55f00c61b07}
http://pro.corbis.com/images/IH073978.jpg?size=67&uid={fc2efe05-ce1d-4d22-acda-e13ee338cdf2} http://pro.corbis.com/images/BB003281.jpg?size=67&uid={2061c9f9-6208-443e-af08-0026e48c98e0}
http://pro.corbis.com/images/IH073977.jpg?size=67&uid={699534b7-9a3e-4c36-90d5-066bf7b87674}

Manila slums

http://pro.corbis.com/images/KV003594.jpg?size=67&uid={6296085a-5f4f-4201-862c-38aac32d0ccc}
http://pro.corbis.com/images/KV003595.jpg?size=67&uid={b536a009-faa6-4213-9d0b-cd81cecf4720}
http://pro.corbis.com/images/KV003590.jpg?size=67&uid={fd0cfd03-42ec-40f6-aa56-170435881c2c}
http://pro.corbis.com/images/DWF15-537669.jpg?size=67&uid={5f2ec875-2e52-4677-b30e-7eee088dfd8b}
http://pro.corbis.com/images/DWF15-616105.jpg?size=67&uid={a2aa5d33-069e-46fc-8023-3eb0710e4c39}
http://pro.corbis.com/images/DWF15-537686.jpg?size=67&uid={a2cbeeda-b48b-4a88-b76a-d2b38d1fb2f8}
http://pro.corbis.com/images/IH181644.jpg?size=67&uid={8f47d5c6-ec54-462b-aaa0-bb792e180d23}
http://pro.corbis.com/images/IH183245.jpg?size=67&uid={63858daa-a555-4e33-be54-f35326c084fe}

rayman

September 5th, 2004, 07:24 PM

Slums is what this thread is all about,so post Bangkok slums.Skylines do not belong to this forum.
sorry,dont have any slum pics

Thunderflip

September 5th, 2004, 07:25 PM

sorry,dont have any slum pics
the do not post at all.

rayman

September 5th, 2004, 07:34 PM

skyscrapercity

September 5th, 2004, 07:47 PM

Thunderflip

September 5th, 2004, 07:53 PM

Here you go, these are the ghettos of the former East Berlin:

http://pro.corbis.com/images/TL003256.jpg?size=67&uid={08503c29-3156-4cf2-bc0a-3a486f120781}
http://pro.corbis.com/images/TL013808.jpg?size=67&uid={51c44398-2a32-4415-ae11-508a00df2051}
http://pro.corbis.com/images/TL003261.jpg?size=67&uid={2fbbb374-c90c-4e2d-90aa-592283a06df4}
http://pro.corbis.com/images/TL033653.jpg?size=67&uid={617dcadb-78f6-48bc-8838-8431cf2d4581}
http://pro.corbis.com/images/TL003178.jpg?size=67&uid={5ac298ba-35aa-4001-8ca4-3bcb217f1409}
http://pro.corbis.com/images/TL003176.jpg?size=67&uid={2a3eb1d7-4c58-4957-b8d1-92a3726a0502}
Sorry,this was all I could find.

rayman

September 5th, 2004, 07:55 PM

great that asian cities start to loose all slums, Bangkok is the next asian city to loose all slums, Only 4-5 years left, they build corncobs apartment for them instead, for cheap rental prices

here is a pic of the corncob flats which will replace the slum

http://www.cn-thai.co.th/Working%20Site/Corn/CORN-1.jpg

passadiço

September 5th, 2004, 08:01 PM

In Brasil we still has many of this

http://www.jackbishop.com/images/cristowelcome1.jpg
http://www.jucamartins.com/favelas1/hb68_rocinha_rj.jpg
http://www.fmpsd.ab.ca/schools/df/Brazil/images/slums.jpg
http://www.jucamartins.com/favelas1/hb04_rocinha_rj.jpg
http://www.arrakeen.ch/saopaulo/075%20%20favela%20in%20Morumbi.JPG
http://www.jucamartins.com/favelas1/hb07_heliopolis_sp.jpg
http://www.jucamartins.com/favelas1/hb17_heliopolis_sp.jpg
http://www.huaraz.com/brasil/favela.jpg
http://www.jucamartins.com/favelas1/hb37_heliopolis_sp.jpg
http://www.jucamartins.com/favelas1/hb19_heliopolis_sp.jpg
http://www.jucamartins.com/favelas1/hb35_heliopolis_sp.jpg
http://www.mpmueller.de/exodus-dts/photo/slums.jpg
http://www.dd4u.ch/brazil/images/DSC01583.JPG
http://webhome.idirect.com/~powerpix/Resources/images/picture%20stories/Brazil/favella.JPG

skyscraper in Sao Paulo

http://www.cnn.com/interactive/style/0012/bertrand/01.sao.paulo.jpg

Thunderflip

September 5th, 2004, 08:06 PM

I think the Philippine government plans to exterminate slums at least within the next 20 years maximum, Indonesia maybe longer.

skyscrapercity

September 5th, 2004, 08:08 PM

Slums(worn-out or rusty districts in a city) are everywhere in the world.
Even developed countries have those ones.
Just seriousness of difference between rich and poor countries

So the more important thing is how to solve, improve and develope those kind of city problem
and better quality of life for its citizens. :)

skyscrapercity

September 5th, 2004, 08:14 PM

Anyway, this picture looks BEAUTIFUL!

beautiful slum from a distance?

http://www.jackbishop.com/images/cristowelcome1.jpg

London™

September 5th, 2004, 08:38 PM

The Moon Village, the last slum(Dal-dongne in Korean) in Seoul, evacuated.

http://ata.hannam.ac.kr/cities/hck/dal/dal-0.jpg

If you don't believe me, click this site ( click English.) :)

Seoul's LAST slum! (http://ata.hannam.ac.kr/cities/hck/dal/dal-k.htm)

Oh, there it is. To be exact, Daldongnes were somewhere between a slum and a low-class neighbourhood. The last daldongne is now being evacuated and replaced with huge apartment complexes as skyscrapercity said.

A "slum" is defined as "a heavily populated urban area characterized by substandard housing and squalor." But the problem with defining Daldongnes as "slums" is that they were one of the least densely populated area in Seoul, not to mention that Daldongnes' crime rate was even lower than that of Gangnam, one of Seoul's most prestigious addresses. Also from what I've seen, people were very friendly and those narrow streets were relatively clean. (Of course they were below average, but they were certainliy better than slums like Compton, CA.) Education level was higher than that of an average North American slum and I've never seen a kid who doesn't go to school.

But at the same time, Daldongnes did have some characteristics of slums. Houses there were below standard and most people didn't have full-time jobs or enough money for living. In fact, the majoriy of people depended on the welfare programmes and some had to go to local food banks every day.

So are they slums? I don't know. What I know is that they are not there anymore.

swivel

September 6th, 2004, 04:40 AM

why dont you post some slums of berlin?? if you like slum that much, I was in berlin and many buildings in eastern side of Berlin look like crap, grey old building , looks like sarajevo or smt :) pls show us those photos.

Dude I think you've just got some sort of complex about slums in Bangkok. Don't be quite so defensive...WTF is your deal? Don't post at all if you can't handle the fact that plight is alive and well in Bangkok

Great pics Thunderflip. They look fairly new. This would probably be my favorite.

http://pro.corbis.com/images/TH001515.jpg?size=67&uid={5432409e-22cb-4d0f-9636-49cb4b59dfe9}

WinterHeart

September 6th, 2004, 10:46 AM

corni

September 6th, 2004, 11:38 AM

Berlin-Marzhahn

http://www.vitruvius.com.br/arquitextos/arq014/bases/014_03_11.jpg
I don't think that Berlin-Marzahn meets the criteria for being a slum: All commieblocks in East Germany have unlimited fresh water supply from the tub and are completely sanitary. All the people living in there have access to health care and free education and are - despite unemployment and "poverty" - among the richest in the world. I think it's even inappropriate to compare Berlin-Marzahn to the third world's hunger and starvation disaster.
And Thunderflip, don't sell us pictures of rebellish people being seperate from society on purpose as "slums". Let's take this thread more seriously!

rayman

September 6th, 2004, 11:45 AM

I also think it is inappropiate to show pictures of old slum from many years ago that doesnt exist today

JuanPaulo

September 6th, 2004, 11:52 AM

I also think it is inappropiate to show pictures of old slum from many years ago that doesnt exist today

I agree...however sometimes it's hard to know if they still exists...

swivel

September 6th, 2004, 11:59 AM

This is my first post on this site (so give me the benefit of the doubt).

I found this thread intriguing. Every city has its version of a "slum;" some are just more photographed than others because they have a much greater impact on the people viewing them. For instance, the slum of my city can't even compare to the amazing pictures those of you posted.

Yeah...if you think about it....We don't really have slums in the US. Not anything like Rio, Bangkok and so on. We've got ghettos, and the homeless....
Something of this nature would be condemed long before it ever became this bad.

I also think it is inappropiate to show pictures of old slum from many years ago that doesnt exist today

Why? ... How is it innapropriate? And if it bothers you that damn much...then just leave....simple.

I agree...however sometimes it's hard to know if they still exists...

This is why I asked poeple to post a date with image and how that particular area is doing. And who cares if it still exists. If you need to know that bad, just look it up.

And why do you think it's innapropriate?

All we want is to see images of slums from around the world...Not a status report.

rayman

September 6th, 2004, 12:21 PM

you talk like you know Bangkok that much , not so much slums like in rio or Bangkok.

Bangkok slums are disapearing in a fast speed, within 5 years it will be totally vanished
but it will probably get some ghettos instead.

http://community.webshots.com/photo/111022473/111056202yXnMAw
(here a picture of a little Bangkok working factory slum)

today
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v171/chady/conspirecy152.jpg

(making way for a skyscraper office building)
http://www.emporis.com/en/il/im/?id=148199
(picture of those office towers)

Where will all people living in the slum go???

here..... corncob apartments, for cheap rental price
http://www.cn-thai.co.th/Working%20Site/Corn/CORN-1.jpg

JuanPaulo

September 6th, 2004, 12:27 PM

And why do you think it's innapropriate?

I think it is inappropiate because slums are a negative aspect of urbanism. Why bring up something negative from the past when it doesn't exist no more? I am not proud of the slums of my town...why show to the world something negative?

rayman

September 6th, 2004, 12:31 PM

good word Juanpaulo :)

I think its better if someone who knows Bangkok or Rio better show how it is and tell us how it is , instead of some ignorant saying oohh it is like this oohh not so much slum as in Bangkok or rio (when they have no idea how it really is there).

Bangkok had much slum in the past but today it doesnt, so you are so wrong :)

and then showing slums of Bangkok from early 90s that doesnt exist today is very weird. Whats the point?? why not show the fancy skyscrapers that exist there today??

JuanPaulo

September 6th, 2004, 12:32 PM

Yeah...if you think about it....We don't really have slums in the US. Not anything like Rio, Bangkok and so on. We've got ghettos, and the homeless....
Something of this nature would be condemed long before it ever became this bad

Like I said, some of the conditions of the "ghettos" in the United States are not different from "slums" of other parts of the world. The interpretation of slums is completely different in many parts of the world. For instance, most of the slums of Rio have all basic services...water, electricity, sewer, roads, etc. People who live there pay bills for these services. So what makes them different from the US ghettos???

Now, if you look at the slums in very poor countries, then the story is different. A slum in India is completely different from a slum in Rio and a slum in the US.

swivel

September 6th, 2004, 01:28 PM

I don't even know where to start with this one

good word Juanpaulo :)

I think its better if someone who knows Bangkok or Rio better show how it is and tell us how it is , instead of some ignorant saying oohh it is like this oohh not so much slum as in Bangkok or rio (when they have no idea how it really is there).

Ahhyep...Now you've stepped in it.
You don't think very hard, or speak well for that matter. Nobody was telling you "How it is". You're just retaliating because I continue to make you look stupid. And how the hell do you know what I know. My best friend was born and raised in Rio.......stupid once again..you make this easy.
Ahh yes, and the "ignorant" comment. I think we all know who is ignorant here....or just 12 years old.

Bangkok had much slum in the past but today it doesnt, so you are so wrong :)

What the hell are you talking about? When did I say this?

and then showing slums of Bangkok from early 90s that doesnt exist today is very weird. Whats the point?? why not show the fancy skyscrapers that exist there today??

BECAUSE THIS THREAD IS CALLED FRIGGING "WORLD SLUMSCAPE".

NOT "THE FANCY SKYSCRAPER" THREAD.
Get a life ray

Now for your little friend Juan Paulo....

pricemazda

September 6th, 2004, 01:42 PM

We did the exact same thing we have had slum clearance since about the industriall revolution. After the war we built thousands and shiny new apartments, flats, houses, granny flats, huge new areas of all cities in the UK. But guess what now those houses we built are considered slums. You cannot declare in 5 years all our slums will be gone as chances are the people you move into new houses aren't that educated, won't even know how to clean a proper house with toilet, let alone be able to afford to buy the essentials to maintain a clean and well kept house. They will become slums too.

rayman

September 6th, 2004, 01:43 PM

ok your friend was born in rio, but you dont know the situation in Bangkok so you look like a jackass when you show those old pics and mention not as much slum as in Bangkok , get a life weirdo

rayman

September 6th, 2004, 01:45 PM

BECAUSE THIS THREAD IS CALLED FRIGGING "WORLD SLUMSCAPE".

why dont u rename it to world slumscape , 10-20 years ago??

swivel

September 6th, 2004, 01:46 PM

I think it is inappropiate because slums are a negative aspect of urbanism. Why bring up something negative from the past when it doesn't exist no more? I am not proud of the slums of my town...why show to the world something negative?

Who the hell made you the urban authority?
Yes it's negative, but that dosen't make it wrong to view and learn about something not all of us see on a daily basis. As far as negative issues being posted, there are many other threads about such on this forum alone..Go complain to them as well...It's not your place.
And nobody said you had to be proud of the "slums in your town." Is it your fault that they're there? No...
You are to concerned with other people judging you based on the region you come from...Of all people and places on the web this is the last place you would find that.

Once again ..... You don't want to see these images, then leave. Because we don't want to hear you whine about what you THINK. :down:

rayman

September 6th, 2004, 01:49 PM

here in Stockholm we dont have those awfull bronx areas, pls show us some of the criminal poor areas of bronx?? I dont see that everyday

swivel

September 6th, 2004, 01:58 PM

ok your friend was born in rio, but you dont know the situation in Bangkok so you look like a jackass when you show those old pics and mention not as much slum as in Bangkok , get a life weirdo

Once again, WTF are you talking about..... :weirdo: . ..you are 12 huh?

Why don't I rename it?

1)It's not my thread.
2)You can't edit thread title's.

But I sure wish I could guy.....just so you could sleep at night.

Oh yeah...I'm not worried about who "looks like a jackass." :okay:

Thunderflip

September 6th, 2004, 01:59 PM

rayman

September 6th, 2004, 02:01 PM

Once again, WTF are you talking about..... :weirdo: . ..you are 12 huh?

Why don't I rename it?

1)It's not my thread.
2)You can't edit thread title's.

But I sure wish I could guy.....just so you could sleep at night.

Oh yeah...I'm not worried about who "looks like a jackass." :okay:

mean either ;)

anyway pls show us some poor areas of bronx, they look scary :eek2:

swivel

September 6th, 2004, 02:01 PM

here in Stockholm we dont have those awfull bronx areas, pls show us some of the criminal poor areas of bronx?? I dont see that everyday

Look back in this post...You'll see where I already posted the Bronx you dumbass.

I happen to love the Bronx.

And if you'll notice I posted "then and now" refering to the date.

What else you got there scooter?

rayman

September 6th, 2004, 02:07 PM

If you are not interested in slums, then why do you want to see specific shantytowns?
Does it really enrage you when you hear the word SLUM?Are you afraid to open your eyes and take a peak at the truth?

The truth in Bangkoks case is that it is getting much much less , they still exist a little, but as I said before in 5 years it will be gone, why would I be afraid to look at the truth, thats the truth and I know it, if you dont know it I dont care.... that is just lack of knowledge from your side...

rayman

September 6th, 2004, 02:09 PM

Look back in this post...You'll see where I already posted the Bronx you dumbass.

I happen to love the Bronx.

And if you'll notice I posted "then and now" refering to the date.

What else you got there scooter?

isnt it awfull there?? must be really scary there at night :runaway:

rayman

September 6th, 2004, 02:12 PM

anyway, go back to posting some slum pics as you wish, I wont dissturb your enjoyment :)

swivel

September 6th, 2004, 02:21 PM

Like I said, some of the conditions of the "ghettos" in the United States are not different from "slums" of other parts of the world. The interpretation of slums is completely different in many parts of the world. For instance, most of the slums of Rio have all basic services...water, electricity, sewer, roads, etc. People who live there pay bills for these services. So what makes them different from the US ghettos???

Now, if you look at the slums in very poor countries, then the story is different. A slum in India is completely different from a slum in Rio and a slum in the US.

Well for one they're not refered to as "Slums"
Secondly...Slums are visualy different from US ghettos. Slums are little shacks made of whatever. Find that in the US for me.
I don't consider anywhere that has
basic utilities a slum.
And what do you claim as "most of Rio slums" Percentage wise?

And I Quote,"A slum in India is completely different from a slum in Rio and a slum in the US"

Riiight....Tell me ...How can you catagorize Rio and the US in terms of slum areas seeing as how there are no slums in the US....Remember...Ghetto's..very different....not a sea of shack like structures full of disease and suffering

anything else?

swivel

September 6th, 2004, 02:23 PM

anyway, go back to posting some slum pics as you wish, I wont dissturb your enjoyment :)

It's about damn time.

Thank you so very much ray.

rayman

September 6th, 2004, 02:27 PM

swivel

September 6th, 2004, 02:36 PM

isnt it awfull there?? must be really scary there at night :runaway:

Yup..it was once thought to be one of the worst places on earth...The City considered evacuating the entire burough and destroying it to later rebuild...Read all about it in my threads guy.

Don't try to make me ashamed of The Bronx or any burough for that matter.. I love every square inch of this City, and all that it represents with every fiber of my being.

And yes, The Bronx at night is not a place an induvidual like yourself should be caught in..if you value your wallet and or life..

REP NYC

swivel

September 6th, 2004, 02:58 PM

Man I thought you were leaving.?

poor people in the US also live in those house wans or whatever they are called.

that is quite close to those shacks in india, the reason why USA or europe doesnt have shacks is because it is too cold over there (winter season), Even in Italy I saw some shacks while I travel by train.

Anyway if USA was hot like india , USA would have lots of shacks.

1) Again...What are you talking about, and what are wans?
Here we have projects and a cardboard box here and there for the homeless. Other bad neighborhoods/ghettos whatever you want to call them.
Oh...and some trailer parks..,,,,But if you'll notice, none of these are slums.

2) Good for you, the train and Italy.

3) HAAA! I can't believe you just posted that! Truly one of the dumbest things I've ever seen posted in this forum.

Cold huh? In Texas the heat index can reach well into the 110's F... 29 Palms in Cali into the 120's F.
And even if our temp stayed up around 120* F year round. You wouldn't see shacks.

Dude you're just spinnin' your wheels...Go Home.

swivel

September 6th, 2004, 03:04 PM

And just for the record. I'm refering to The South Bronx in my post above. Some parts of the Bronx have nice, large brick homes.

Also, Just FYI the Bronx today is like Malibu compared to 20 years ago.

Sorry...Old rayray's given me alot to correct or clarify.....it's cool...I got alllll day. :colgate:

rayman

September 6th, 2004, 03:13 PM

go home?? what is it with you americans and the word go home all the time??

I am home, thank you very much for your concern.

That was maybe dumb about cold weather and shantytowns, just wanna see your reaction :D and you got mad as I thought you would get :D

rayman

September 6th, 2004, 03:16 PM

usa

http://www.detnews.com/pix/2004/08/05/asec/z005-shanty-0804n.jpg

http://home1.gte.net/feed/Kid%20Slums.jpg

this looks pretty much like some indian shacks? :D

swivel

September 6th, 2004, 03:39 PM

go home?? what is it with you americans and the word go home all the time??
I am home, thank you very much for your concern.

You wouldn't understand...We call it a "request"
And have you ever heard the term "Figuratively Speaking"
Big Words...I know
And your welcome.

That was maybe dumb about cold weather and shantytowns, just wanna see your reaction :D and you got mad as I thought you would get :D

Sure you did.....

And my friend, I'm not mad.... I love making people look stupid. You're the one that was all bent out of shape to begin with.

READ THIS REALLY FAST ray

I AM SOFA KING WE TAT ED

And I posted pics of some trailer parks as well.

I can't seem to convince you that I am not ashamed of my country like you.....Post more trailer parks, projects and ghettos...I'll save every last one of them.

Ok...now it's your turn again.

swivel

September 6th, 2004, 03:42 PM

By ray: "this looks pretty much like some indian shacks"

Yeah....you fooled me. I almost thought that was india.

Brilliant ray.

rayman

September 6th, 2004, 03:51 PM

haha, brilliant is the word

i am sofa king we tat ed ???

I got it to I am so fucking we tat ed :D sorry I dont know what that means :)
wasted would be better but that fits more into you :)

Anyway am not ashamed of showing slums of my second homecity (Bangkok), I just showed you one link of a little Bangkok slum which today is gone.

ryanr

September 6th, 2004, 03:54 PM

Dude I think you've just got some sort of complex about slums in Bangkok. Don't be quite so defensive...WTF is your deal? Don't post at all if you can't handle the fact that plight is alive and well in Bangkok

This is because rayman loves his Bangkok way too much. he is basically afraid to post pictures of the slums that still do exist. Yes, it is decreasing we know. But i'm sure they are still out there. Instead of complaining about the old pictures, why not post newer ones then. Swivle does not come from Bangkok so he does not know what is old or new.

@ Thunderflip - I got to admit that Metro Manila and Jakarta does have some of the biggest slums in South East Asia (if not the world). And in some parts, they are getting bigger. But in a genaral sense, it is decreasing somewhat has development kicks in. Jakarta had a big increase after the 97/98 economic crisis, but its starting to level out again right now. The Philippine government and the ADB plans to have no slums in Metro Manila by 2017, lets hope they can do so. I do not know Indonesia's targets on poverty reduction, though.

Here's a recent picture of MM's slums. They are in the foreground of the picture.
http://a740.g.akamai.net/f/740/606/1d/image.pathfinder.com/time/asia/magazine/2004/0823/376_philip.jpg

Thunderflip basically posted the worst ones. Shows you how sad lives still are to many Filipinos and Indonesians.

swivel

September 6th, 2004, 04:00 PM

"we tat ed" is part of the joke ray. A we tat ed person would not pronunciate their words properly.

And I'm glad you can now post pics of your slums...it looks like you're cured...My work here is done.

I would like to formally apalogize to SSC and the rest of the forumers who have to view this waste of space.

I am sorry.

rayman

September 6th, 2004, 04:03 PM

greyx

I said in an earlier post that it still exist a little of the slum in Bangkok, its not totally gone yet. In 5 years it will though.

well I will try to find some recent pic of some slum area in Bangkok ...

By the way I posted a slum pic from 2003 in Bangkok but today that slum is gone.

swivel

September 6th, 2004, 04:05 PM

Swivle does not come from Bangkok so he does not know what is old or new.

Nor do I care! :D
Thank you GreyX

rayman

September 6th, 2004, 04:12 PM

http://community.webshots.com/photo/174017243/176345527WkhVKh

here a slum somewhere, I dont know if its new or old

swivel

September 6th, 2004, 05:09 PM

Hmmmmm...Looks like?? Bangkok!
You suprised me....I totally expected a trailer!

BTW, Thats really a nice pic, but it's not slumtastic...Work on it for me. :okay:

Suncity

September 6th, 2004, 06:20 PM

Damn....Thats hardcore
Makes you thankful for what you have.

Just though this was wild..
Bombay, India
http://www.simonrichter.de/indien/localtrain.jpg

That looks like the (in)famous Tongi train in Bangladesh during a religious festival.

Overcrowding is common but that picture is an exception and not the norm. Unfortunately people like to focus on single pics and create myths.

BTW Bombay trains are overloaded too.

http://www.7thcloud.com/lthumb/train.jpg

http://www.irfca.org/photos/albums/EMU/CR_EMU_Diva.sized.jpg

cicarra

September 6th, 2004, 06:28 PM

^^:eek: That's dangerous! Why are this kind of substandard trains in operation?

Suncity

September 6th, 2004, 06:29 PM

poor people in the US also live in those house wans or whatever they are called.

that is quite close to those shacks in india, the reason why USA or europe doesnt have shacks is because it is too cold over there (winter season), Even in Italy I saw some shacks while I travel by train.

Anyway if USA was hot like india , USA would have lots of shacks.

Weather has got nothing to do with shacks. Many places in the USA are hotter than India. It's about money. The poor in the USA are richer by many times than Indian poor. Also the poor in USA have much better social backups. So comparing the USA and India makes no sense.

Suncity

September 6th, 2004, 06:39 PM

^^:eek: That's dangerous! Why are this kind of substandard trains in operation?

If you are referring to the last two pics then it's not too bad. It's fun!!! Especially during rUsh hour you have crushloads of people. It's an artform to board, ride and deboard such trains. Not easy for people used to luxurious lifestyles.

I don't know how they will manage that many people with these ones...

http://www.irfca.org/photos/albums/DMU/hp_20040729_01.sized.jpg

rayman

September 6th, 2004, 06:39 PM

i was just kidding a little there, I know pretty much about the social backups in the western countries. US dont have as good social backups as Europe though.

rayman

September 6th, 2004, 06:40 PM

If you are referring to the last two pics then it's not too bad. It's fun!!! Especially during rUsh hour you have crushloads of people. It's an artform to board, ride and deboard such trains. Not easy for people used to luxurious lifestyles.

I don't know how they will manage that many people with these ones...

http://www.irfca.org/photos/albums/DMU/hp_20040729_01.sized.jpg

wow india got new modern trains :) nice

Suncity

September 6th, 2004, 06:42 PM

i was just kidding a little there, I know pretty much about the social backups in the western countries. US dont have as good social backups as Europe though.

I know.. Your arguments liven up (or should I say fire up) a boring thread. I enjoy them.

:-)

Suncity

September 6th, 2004, 06:50 PM

wow india got new modern trains :) nice

India is a country of contrasts. And so is Indian Railways.

http://www.delhimetrorail.com/commuters/photogallery/pgallery2/bpic1.jpg

http://www.irfca.org/photos/albums/EMU/00017_G.sized.jpg

http://www.frontlineonnet.com/fl2026/images/20040102004911401.jpg

Suncity

September 6th, 2004, 07:04 PM

Now, if you look at the slums in very poor countries, then the story is different. A slum in India is completely different from a slum in Rio and a slum in the US.

US doesn't have slums the way we know in third world countries.

From the pictures that I have seen, a slum in India doesn't look much different from a slum in Rio. In fact pictures of Rio's slums remind me of exactly similar looking slums in India.

Desven

September 6th, 2004, 09:55 PM

@rayman:no slums in bangkog??

"Most of Bangkok's inhabitants live in slums."

http://images.google.de/imgres?imgurl=http://www.telesisjournals.com/bangkok/_borders/riverb.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.telesisjournals.com/bangkok/&h=139&w=200&sz=9&tbnid=wEgwBN7h9XEJ:&tbnh=68&tbnw=97&start=7&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dslums%2Bin%2Bbangkok%26hl%3Dde%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8

Thunderflip

September 6th, 2004, 10:12 PM

The truth in Bangkoks case is that it is getting much much less , they still exist a little, but as I said before in 5 years it will be gone, why would I be afraid to look at the truth, thats the truth and I know it, if you dont know it I dont care.... that is just lack of knowledge from your side...

and who the heck cares when Bangkok slums will be gone?This thread is about slums, so isn`t it obvious that people will post slums they know? Happy for me that slums will be gone in 5 years but why do you have to order people to post slums of their own cities if you can`t even post any of your own?If you have a certain anger towards slums, then you shouldn`t be going in this thread the first place.

JuanPaulo

September 6th, 2004, 10:48 PM

SwivleNow for your little friend Juan Paulo....
What??? What about me???? What???

rayman

September 6th, 2004, 10:53 PM

JuanPaulo

September 6th, 2004, 10:54 PM

Who the hell made you the urban authority?
Yes it's negative, but that dosen't make it wrong to view and learn about something not all of us see on a daily basis. As far as negative issues being posted, there are many other threads about such on this forum alone..Go complain to them as well...It's not your place.
And nobody said you had to be proud of the "slums in your town." Is it your fault that they're there? No...
You are to concerned with other people judging you based on the region you come from...Of all people and places on the web this is the last place you would find that.

Once again ..... You don't want to see these images, then leave. Because we don't want to hear you whine about what you THINK. :down:

Who the hell you think you are? I am just giving my opinion here. I did not say hey stop posting pics about slums. I just said it is inappropiate to show pics of a city's slums when they do not exist no more. Why post pics and lead people in the wrong direction making them think that is the reality as today??

If you do not know anything about slums, then make some research before you come here and post pics of places that do not exist and make you look stupid.

Second, I have never even cared about people judging me because of where I am from...where are you getting this crap from??? I only said slums are negative, no more.

Last, I am not whining, I am just giving my personal opinion so you shut up and respect it. :no:

rayman

September 6th, 2004, 10:59 PM

JuanPaulo

September 7th, 2004, 12:49 AM

Well for one they're not refered to as "Slums"
Secondly...Slums are visualy different from US ghettos. Slums are little shacks made of whatever. Find that in the US for me.
I don't consider anywhere that has
basic utilities a slum.
And what do you claim as "most of Rio slums" Percentage wise?

And I Quote,"A slum in India is completely different from a slum in Rio and a slum in the US"

Riiight....Tell me ...How can you catagorize Rio and the US in terms of slum areas seeing as how there are no slums in the US....Remember...Ghetto's..very different....not a sea of shack like structures full of disease and suffering

anything else?

First of all, this is Webster's dictionary definition of "slum":

Slum: (n) heavily populated urban area characterized by substandard housing and squalor. A foul back street of a city, especially one filled with a poor, dirty, degraded, and often vicious population; any low neighborhood or dark retreat. Usually in the plural form.

Per this definition, your "ghettos" in the US are not different from any "slum" around the world. The point here is that everybody has a different interpretation of "slums".

Second, there are many trashy trailer homes all over the US that fit your "made up of whatever" definition of a slum...and yes most of the slums in Rio have more than basic services....Cable TV, air conditionning, etc...so accroding to your standards, they are not slums. Most people have terrible misconceptions about the slums in Rio. I do not know what percentage of the Rio slums have these conditions, so I do not want to make up a number. However, you can inform yourself on this following thread and maybe prepare before coming here and making statements without evidence to back them up:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=119531 (http://)
(I don't think my hyperlink button is working, but you can copy and paste on a new page and get there)

Third, Other than your ghetto trailer parks and public housing neighborhoods, YES there are slums in the US, you just haven't seen them. Take a look at American Samoa and other US possesions and then we will talk.

amras

September 7th, 2004, 07:56 AM

is it me or there are really "some" people here who are conceited assholes who have very very large ego, too large that it hinders the proper way their brains work...

Donkie

September 7th, 2004, 08:33 AM

Slums in Seoul?

Seoul's Last Slum area - Moon town

But NOW
http://www.thesharp.co.kr/PRJIMG/P_28_SITE_8.jpg

AcesHigh

September 7th, 2004, 08:38 AM

just wanted to point out that there are slums and slums inside Brasil.

For example, Rocinha slum, in Rio, the largest in the city, slowly is becoming a ful neighborhood. MANY houses there have satellite dishes, current water, basic sanitation, etc. And many of the houses are suffering reforms and becoming a bit more beautiful.

I think a true slum are houses built irregularly. Most slums in Brasil are irregular housing built by poor people in terrains that belong to the government or to private parties. Hardly the government tores them down. If they destroy the houses, where will the people live. And there is not enough money to build popular houses to them all.

Even if they build popular houses, sometimes it might end up like a slum. Anyone saw City of God? In the beginning of the movie, they explain that the City of God slum began as a government housing project in the 60s... but slowly the population there transformed it all into a slum...

swivel

September 7th, 2004, 11:01 AM

Who the hell you think you are? I am just giving my opinion here. I did not say hey stop posting pics about slums. I just said it is inappropiate to show pics of a city's slums when they do not exist no more. Why post pics and lead people in the wrong direction making them think that is the reality as today??

1) The guy who pissed you off
2) Quote "I just said it is inappropiate to show pics of a city's slums when they do not exist no more."....Just a tip. When you would like to express an opinion, throw a "I Think", or "In my opinion" in there to imply that this is your opinion....
3) Nobody asked you. Did you start this thread? If you don't like it, find that little green arrow up at the top side of your screen and leave

If you do not know anything about slums, then make some research before you come here and post pics of places that do not exist and make you look stupid.

This is so pointless now.
If it makes you feel better about yourself to call me stupid for no reason. Go right ahead.
Anyone can post any slum pic they like existing or not. This is a photo thread, not an info thread.

Okay buddy, you go "make some research" and I'll be here lookin' stupid.

Second, I have never even cared about people judging me because of where I am from...where are you getting this crap from??? I only said slums are negative, no more.

But I was just posting my opinion.. "so you shut up and respect it." Damn..that backfired huh?
You chose to defend ray. Both of you (esp ray) could not let it go. The words you two wrote and the way you were so defensive is just one place I'm "getting this crap from"...Just read through this thread...I'm not the only one who sees it.

Last, I am not whining, I am just giving my personal opinion so you shut up and respect it. :no:

Ohh Yes Sir, You want respect? Fuc_off. First you learn respect.

... If you think you can earn my respect (or anyone elses for that matter) by posting like you have here, then you've got alot to learn about people and picking your battles more wisely. Untill then, get bent.

swivel

September 7th, 2004, 01:36 PM

Sighhh

First of all, this is Webster's dictionary definition of "slum":

Screw Webster.

Per this definition, your "ghettos" in the US are not different from any "slum" around the world. The point here is that everybody has a different interpretation of "slums".

Okay you win. The so-called "slums" here in the US are no different than say rio's or bangkok's. BS

And "The point here is" that you just completly contradicted your entire argument!
"everybody has a different interpretation of "slums"."
Thats what we've been trying to explain for 3 pages...
According to my "interpretation" of slums, there are none in the US. The term slum is just not used here.
And they're not alike. They may share SOME of the same problems...But here in the US there are no slums like you know from wherever.

You said it.... "everybody has a different interpretation of slums"

Thats mine.
______________________________________________

Second, there are many trashy trailer homes all over the US that fit your "made up of whatever" definition of a slum... Swivle Says: You say all over the US huh? You need to practice what you preach and have a clue before you go and make yourself look .... well, like you do right now....A bumbling Idiot.
All over huh? Trailer parks of this calibur are few and far between, just a handful compared to real slums...
And most all trailer parks are quite nice compared to what you think (considering)...There you go again, talkin about stuff you know nothing about,,,,Hmmmm, Kinda like me huh?
Anywhere you would consider a US slum(projects/ghetto/hood/trailer) is no where even remotly close to a real slum in terms of the number of them around. Not to mention condition and all the other factors.

"there are many trashy trailer homes all over the US that fit your "made up of whatever" definition of a slum..."

Another definition for you.

This is Woogie's dictionary definition of "Trailer home"
A small affordable home on wheels which is mass produced and sold to the public. Not man made shack constructed of "whatever"

JP when you see pics like that shit hole posted by you're buddy rainman. That's clutter and years of neglect hard at work.
Here's the important part....They are all induvidual shit holes, not a sea of 400,000 with people cramed into trailers or abandonded homes in one area.

This is some backwoods hillbilly who dosen't care about,...well....anything. Thats not a slum. It's a trashy, cluttered piece of property..

and yes most of the slums in Rio have more than basic services....Cable TV, air conditionning, etc...so accroding to your standards, they are not slums.

Swivle Says: For once you're right. As you so graciously stated. "The point here is that everybody has a different interpretation of slums."

My standards....slums on a different level maybe, but that is not the image I invision when I think slums...just my own interpretation.

Most people have terrible misconceptions about the slums in Rio. I do not know what percentage of the Rio slums have these conditions, so I do not want to make up a number. However, you can inform yourself on this following thread and maybe prepare before coming here and making statements without evidence to back them up:

Enlighten me, what statements did I make without evidence to back them up? Better yet who asked me for evidence.
Look, I don't post just to post. Thats not my style. If I ever make a mistake, I'll be the first to admit it...I'm here to expand and learn....not this shit
I hate dealing with insecure, ignorant forumers. It's a huge waste of time and effort....WTF...something as trivial as....uhhh....what are we arguing about again.....exactly.
But when you and others like you throw little bitch fits about anything...you have to be put in your place....
This is why I'm here.

Third, Other than your ghetto trailer parks and public housing neighborhoods, YES there are slums in the US, you just haven't seen them. Take a look at American Samoa and other US possesions and then we will talk.

Got me there, had no idea. However "US possesions" denotes somewhere outside the mainland right?
I'm gonna let you in on a little American secret. Most don't even know they exist. North America is what most know. Myself included in this case....so lets talk.

These slums outside the mainland can be compared to where?
And the Mainland US areas are nothing like it are they?
Dude call em' what ever you want. Just know in MAINLAND America Slums don't exist.

How bout some pics?

redstone

September 7th, 2004, 03:01 PM

Hey, people!

Poor people exist in every city.

swivel

September 7th, 2004, 03:28 PM

Thats understood. This started as a slum image thread. Then It was derailed because some people can't handle negative images of their homeland....When things went sour ..the subject was changed....Now it's morphed into a petty argument over nothing....

rayman

September 7th, 2004, 03:34 PM

amras

September 7th, 2004, 03:55 PM

rayman just shut up ok. if you don't like this thread then don't post, or better don't even bother to read the posts here. you can always defend your city but hell, you don't have to say all these shit to other people (or other people's city for that matter).

if not all people in Bangkok live in slums, then fine. you don't have to tell someone that they're stupid. for the last this thread is all about slums (you should have understood it by now). we already know that "your" Bangkok is good and perhaps getting better and better so just drop it and get a life.

swivel

September 7th, 2004, 04:00 PM

yeah, because some of you guys show 10-15 year old slum pics that doesnt exist today, whats the point??

Then another stupid guy said most of Bangkok inhabitants live in slum, that is probably the most stupid thing I ever heard.

Like I would say most inhabitants in Berlin are skinheads and gays

No whats stupid is your post.

Whats the point?....WE WANT TO SEE THEM...Are you that fucking dense dude?
Does The Word "HISTORICAL" mean anything to you..

Go start your own thread on How well Bangkok is doing today. I'm sure it'll be a hit.

I figured out why you have so many more posts than I do in the same time frame!

You don't ever shut your face.

And I'd be very careful if I were you.
Most of the comments you make are pointless , but the comment on Berlin was uncalled for.

I would sure hate to see you banned.

rayman

September 7th, 2004, 04:00 PM

I feel offended by your words amras :laugh:, why dont you masturbate your back a little more like your cartoon figure on your display :crazy: hehe dont take it serious :) just a funny joke

rayman

September 7th, 2004, 04:02 PM

yeah, I would sure hate to be banned as well, thats why I cant really live out what I wanna say or else I will get banned, already came back from a brig :(

swivel

September 7th, 2004, 04:06 PM

You make no sense.

rayman

September 7th, 2004, 04:11 PM

I got brigged last week, I just got unbrigged this week

swivel

September 7th, 2004, 04:21 PM

For some reason that doesn't surprise me.

swivel

September 7th, 2004, 04:23 PM

Your mouth gets you in alot of trouble huh?

rayman

September 7th, 2004, 04:29 PM

not as troublesome as Mike Tysons mouth

amras

September 7th, 2004, 04:43 PM

why dont you masturbate your back a little more like your cartoon figure on your display :crazy: hehe dont take it serious :) just a funny joke

why dont't you do it for me then?

swivel

September 7th, 2004, 04:44 PM

Ha!

rayman

September 7th, 2004, 04:46 PM

why dont't you do it for me then?
:drool: :puke:

new

September 7th, 2004, 05:07 PM

http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2004/03/287794.html

Heres an interesting link of some slums in the liverpool 8 area that where 'supposedly' going to be cleared up after the riots they had there 20 years ago....civilised societies just get better!!
See what you think i'll try and find some more run down areas of liverpool for you to look at..

Desven

September 7th, 2004, 06:24 PM

If most of Bangkok inhabitants live in slum, how can they get rid of it in 5 years?? believe me I been to Bangkok, for 15-20 years ago, yeah many people lived in slum in Bangkok, that homepage is very old. Please dont show your stupidity again desven, you should be a clown or something :D hehe, anyway it was fun though :laugh:

i didn't say that most of bangkog's inhabitants live in slums,the website did it!and u can say what u want,i don't believe that the slums in bangkog will disappear in 35 years!!

Desven

September 7th, 2004, 06:27 PM

JuanPaulo

September 8th, 2004, 09:48 AM

To Swivle:

I'm gonna take some time to write this post. I have gone back and read all the thread. First of all I want to say I'm sorry if I jumped on you. All I said is that I thought it was inappropiate to show pics of slums that no longer exist. I apologize because I miss your post regarding posting the status of the slum. However, I was just giving my opinion, and you jumped on me saying quote: "who the hell you are" and "don't come here and whine".

I understand you might have been worked up from arguing with Rayman, but I think you started attacking me. I was not defending rayman, I was just giving my opinion. I did not agree with Rayman posting pics of modern Bangkok in a thread abour slums.

Anyways, I admit I gor worked-up by your threatening response. Nevertheless, I have taken time to reflect of what has been said on this thread. To be honest with you, I do think most people have a sort of fascination with slums. I think it is an important topic to be discussed here in SSC. I just think we should all be somewhat prudent of the way we say things, because for many, these are sensitive issues.

Sorry you all if I got worked-up. An important thing about this discussion is that we all have concensus that everybody has a different interpretation of "slum". While I do call the ghettoes of the US "slums", of course I am aware that the conditions of the poorest slums in developing countries do not come even close to standards of US slums. In other cases, slums in developing countries I believe have better living conditions than slums in the US.

As of the slums in the US, Swivle, it is true that there are very poor areas in American Samoa. I do not have pics handy to show you. I do not think they compare in any way to some of those slum pics posted earlier. I have to admit I was irritated by your comments and tried to bring this up with no good reason or backup evidence.

I live in Hawaii, and you would be surprised but here in Honolulu I've seen probably some of the worst conditions in the US. OF course, like I said, these do not even come close to the ones in developing countries.

Lets all agree to discuss this subject in a mature way, keeping in mind that we can all learn without being disrespectful. Lets post more pics of slums and talk about why they happen and what is being done to make them disappear. Lets be polite to those who are sensitive about this issues and say whether the pics we post exist or not more. If we are not sure, lets just say so, or if there is anyone that knows, say so without making offensive comments.

Cheers mate :)

swivel

September 8th, 2004, 02:33 PM

Right on...you're one of the good ones. I apologize as well...We all know what it's like in a heated thread.
Some of the things you said in the post above took guts, not many other forumers would be so honest and up front. ...Mad Respect for this.

Cheers Indeed :cheers: Mahalo

Nick

September 8th, 2004, 02:36 PM

Slums in Seoul?

I agree .I dont think there are any slums in Soeul anymore.That is a very old picture I think

ryanr

September 8th, 2004, 04:28 PM

Rayman...cool it man. Just because you are off the brig doesnt mean you cant be brigged again or even banned. Please dont cause trouble with other forumers. If you dont want Bangkok to be involved in this thread, dont make it involved. Stop trying to defend your city like that. Slums are a reality, just face it. Bangkok, like many other cities in Asia and other less developed countries DO HAVE SLUMS, even if its just a little or a lot. Just because this is the world forum and i dont mod it, that doesnt mean i cant do anything. Clean up your act, man.

RafflesCity

September 8th, 2004, 04:41 PM

Keep the insults out of this thread, especially those who know better.

LSyd

September 8th, 2004, 05:02 PM

here's some pics of "slums" in the U.S. that aren't trailers. while not as bad as the third world, it's some of the forms of what passes as a "slum" here. (i've got some pics of a worse/more run down area, but they're on a hard drive i can't get to work right now; sorry, but here's what i've got;)

shot in Birmingham, Alabama:

here's some "shotgun houses;" named that because they're long and narrow. and cheaply built. usually found in poorer areas of the city, it's been compared to the rowhouses in the Northeast U.S. as far as cheap housing stock.

http://www.pbase.com/lsyd/image/26328549.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/lsyd/image/26329099.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/lsyd/image/26328154.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/lsyd/image/26328158.jpg

a couple that have been rehabbed about two blocks from my apartment (they're the only ones in my neighborhood I've seen)

http://www.pbase.com/lsyd/image/26563730.jpg

here's a picture of where a decent-looking neighborhood turns into an industrial neighborhood; most of the trash is from when a creek behind the trees overran. the creek's known for being polluted and smells bad, especially because it goes through the areas of town that still have heavier industry.

http://www.pbase.com/lsyd/image/26328053.jpg

then in the U.S. you've got the popular "ghetto," or more appropriately, housing projects; the 3 shots below are in one that's about 4 blocks from my apartment, and surrounded by nice and/or gentrified neighborhoods. just about every city's got a similar area though:

http://www.pbase.com/lsyd/image/26563729.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/lsyd/image/26563616.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/lsyd/image/26559813.jpg

another one on the west side

http://www.pbase.com/lsyd/image/26328550.jpg

in areas of town that are "the ghetto," there's a good deal of burnt out buildings

http://www.pbase.com/lsyd/image/26328047.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/lsyd/image/26329095.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/lsyd/image/26328557.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/lsyd/image/26328038.jpg

other slummy shots:

http://www.pbase.com/lsyd/image/26329105.jpg

homeless "camp" near downtown

http://www.pbase.com/lsyd/image/26469358.jpg

here's some "slum" shots from Atlanta; not being from there, i didn't find or photograph "the worst" areas (or so i was told.)

http://www.pbase.com/lsyd/image/29479353.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/lsyd/image/29479187.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/lsyd/image/29479184.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/lsyd/image/29479549.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/lsyd/image/29479354.jpg

Columbia, South Carolina

http://www.pbase.com/lsyd/image/31415951.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/lsyd/image/31415950.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/lsyd/image/31415949.jpg

seeing how much of the world lives in slums, in literal garbage, does make me grateful that i didn't/don't live there.

-

passadiço

September 8th, 2004, 05:31 PM

Favela in Morumbi the richest area of Sao Paulo.

http://www1.folha.uol.com.br/fsp/images/abre24012004.jpg

http://idol.union.edu/~micklasc/Brazil/Picture_-_05_-_e.jpg

Visiting the favela confirmed many of the idea that I have learned as well as enlightened me to many more things. I was shocked at the actual proximity of large corporations and buildings to the favela. I had read about Morumbi being an area of rich apartment houses, but I was really shocked to see the huge COMPAQ, CityBank and Nestle buildings looking right into the favela from across the river.

Another part that took me by surprise was many people illegally tapped into the electricity. (only 20% of the homes have it legally in Real Parque favela.) This seems pretty difficult and must take some sort of education or trial/error to figure out how to tap into an electrical wire.

http://idol.union.edu/~micklasc/Brazil/foto3.jpghttp://idol.union.edu/~micklasc/Brazil/foto4.jpghttp://idol.union.edu/~micklasc/Brazil/foto6.jpg

http://www.usp.br/jorusp/arquivo/2003/jusp670/ilustras/ilustra03c.jpghttp://www.usp.br/jorusp/arquivo/2003/jusp670/ilustras/ilustra03c.jpghttp://www.usp.br/jorusp/arquivo/2003/jusp670/ilustras/ilustra03b.jpg

http://idol.union.edu/~micklasc/Brazil/Picture%20-%2009%20-%20i.jpghttp://idol.union.edu/~micklasc/Brazil/images/no17.jpg

http://idol.union.edu/~micklasc/Brazil/Sao%20Pa1.jpghttp://www.pandion.nl/images/galerie/saokrotten.jpghttp://www.fotoforum.com.br/fotos/214favelaoriginal.jpg_tradada6m_clateral_400.jpg

http://www.arrakeen.ch/saopaulo/075%20%20favela%20in%20Morumbi.JPG

http://www.upf.es/materials/fhuma/intgeo/tema8/images/favelas.jpg

ryanr

September 8th, 2004, 05:38 PM

http://www1.folha.uol.com.br/fsp/images/abre24012004.jpg
^What a contrast!! Thats quite shocking. Just imagine that about 5 families can live in a space equivalent to one tennis court.

amras

September 8th, 2004, 06:33 PM

yes @GreyX, it's a harsh reality isn't it? that means that poverty is still a major problem in the world. but hopefully things would change for the better and we won't be seeing these pictures anymore, we won't be discussing this topic anymore, and we won't have to worry about rayman anymore... :bash:

rayman

September 8th, 2004, 06:50 PM

huaiwei

September 8th, 2004, 07:08 PM

or worry about you :)
Is that supposed to be another show of defience?

Once a person is brigged, normally the next step is an outright ban. If a brig cannot teach a person how to conduct himself responsibly and with maturity in this forums, then he dosent deserve a place in here at all.

WinterHeart

September 9th, 2004, 02:12 AM

I don't like fighting in forums, so I'll try not to step on toes--

I think Swivle was trying to agree with me that there really aren't places (that I have seen anyways) like what is depicted in the pictures on this forum existing in the US. There are areas of extreme poverty, however, they manifest themselves in different ways.

JuanPaulo, I have to disagree with your statement about "why show the world something negative." Ignoring a problem has NEVER made it go away. If slums/ghettos/etc are disappearing thats fine, but it wasn't because the world ignored them. So, if these things do NOT exist, then it is wrong to say that they do, but if they DO indeed still exist, its fine to point them out so that something can be done about it as opposed to sweeping it under the rug.

And on a related note, just because a problem has been solved does not mean that it never happened or wasn't a problem to begin with. Why forget human history?

WinterHeart

September 9th, 2004, 02:19 AM

I guess my last post was a little late. Oh well, it's still true.

Passadico--I think some of those places weren't slums. They just need to mow their lawns. :jk:

AcesHigh

September 9th, 2004, 03:55 AM

here's some pics of "slums" in the U.S. that aren't trailers. while not as bad as the third world, it's some of the forms of what passes as a "slum" here. (i've got some pics of a worse/more run down area, but they're on a hard drive i can't get to work right now; sorry, but here's what i've got;)

shot in Birmingham, Alabama:

here's some "shotgun houses;" named that because they're long and narrow. and cheaply built. usually found in poorer areas of the city, it's been compared to the rowhouses in the Northeast U.S. as far as cheap housing stock.

here's a picture of where a decent-looking neighborhood turns into an industrial neighborhood; most of the trash is from when a creek behind the trees overran. the creek's known for being polluted and smells bad, especially because it goes through the areas of town that still have heavier industry.

http://www.pbase.com/lsyd/image/26328053.jpg

then in the U.S. you've got the popular "ghetto," or more appropriately, housing projects; the 3 shots below are in one that's about 4 blocks from my apartment, and surrounded by nice and/or gentrified neighborhoods. just about every city's got a similar area though:

another one on the west side

in areas of town that are "the ghetto," there's a good deal of burnt out buildings

other slummy shots:

homeless "camp" near downtown

here's some "slum" shots from Atlanta; not being from there, i didn't find or photograph "the worst" areas (or so i was told.)

Columbia, South Carolina

seeing how much of the world lives in slums, in literal garbage, does make me grateful that i didn't/don't live there.

-

I think anytime that an american that lives in places like that complains about the living conditions and american economy and stuff like that, he should be slapped in the face and shown how he would live if he was born in a 3rd world country!!

all the houses you showed would be low-middle class in Brasil, not POOR. Those are pretty good living conditions. I mean... whats so bad about living in places like that? You have electricity. Running water. Sewage. Asphalt in front of your house. You even has your OWN terrain!! In real slums, people build their houses with any material they can find on garbages and elsewhere, and they build it on terrains that DONT belong to them.

clive330

September 9th, 2004, 04:30 AM

many of the houses in slums in first world countries would actually be really nice if the people werent content to live in squallor. These are really cute and similar wooden houses are prized, really expensive and immaculate in Australia.

http://www.pbase.com/lsyd/image/29479354.jpg

indian

September 9th, 2004, 04:40 AM

Slum dwellers in US have cars, they must be pretty rich(compared to 3rd world. And they don't really look like slums, only if they coulld tidy up the place a little , it would look good.

lumpia

September 9th, 2004, 04:49 AM

depends what the average standards are in the country.. for instance if the average house type in a certain country was similar to the shotgun houses in the US, then shotgun houses wouldnt look that bad,. but if the average was much richer than that, shotgun houses would qualify as slums.. depends where you are, and how you look at things..

in my opinion; no matter how nice the house may be form the outside; poverty can still loom over the house's inhabitants inside. i've seen some pretty nice looking houses that are without electricity, gas, adequate heat or infested with a wide multitude of pests. if you assess that the houses' inhabitants are unable to find work or may be unqualified to find work that makes ends meet, then that would sorta be the same as people living in a slum anyway.. in the Philippines, there are slum dwellers that have enough money to afford TV's and entertainment centes, having electric-lines runin into their houses/shacks (goodness knows where they get the money from, but some of them obviously can), so even when we talk of slums, there is no set regulations on the types of peopel who live in them, just as there are no regulations on types of peopel who dont live in them...

poverty=poverty; no stereotypes - no assumptions...

AcesHigh

September 9th, 2004, 06:16 AM

AcesHigh

September 9th, 2004, 06:39 AM

http://www.brazilian.org.uk/news/award/pics/favela.jpg
http://www.huaraz.com/brasil/favela.jpg
http://grove.ufl.edu/~brasa/favela.jpg
http://www.alcaudon.com/backgrounds/backgrounds/backgrounds_manmade_favela.jpg
http://www.brasilieninitiative.de/img/favela-rio2.jpg
http://www.dambros.org/luca/brasile/favela.jpg
http://www.frankly.de/Favela.jpg
http://www.changemakers.net/journal/02june/walbran7.jpg
http://www.cbtu.gov.br/noticia/2003/96/imagens/linha001/foto01.jpg

Bruno BHZ

September 9th, 2004, 06:39 AM

adequate heat??? So ALL houses in Brasil are slums. For some UNKNOWN reason, heating is something almost unknown in Brasil. Ah ok... its a tropical country. Right. The southern areas get snow sometimes. Europeans who come to southern Brasil consider it so cold. Basically because they ARE NOT USED TO COLD! What?? An european not used to cold? Yeah, thats right. Europeans only feel cold when they go outside. Inside, their houses are constant 25 degrees celcius!! In Brasil, houses are about the same temp as outside... kinda like... if its 8 degrees outside, inside the house it will be about 12 degrees! How nice uh? And I am talking about RICH houses whch CAN afford heating. But nobody uses them here. And you barely see any heating system for sale. You can only find eletrical heating systems using resistances methods, which of course consume an absurd amount of energy...

That´s true. You reminded me when a Dutch friend of my sister visited Belo Horizonte, during May. The temperature was extremely nice for her, during the day, specially for a "supposed" fall, around 20ºC, a bit more around mid-day, a bit less during the afternoon and morning. But during the night, the temperature fall to 12ºC. I wouldn´t say that inside our apartment it was the same temperature, because we closed all the windows, and even our bodies heat the air a bit. But it was around 14º, 15ºC. She said she never felt so cold during the night as here in Brazil, she never had to sleep with so much clothes on, and stay with so much clothes inside a closed place. She got a flu while here... It sounds so ironic... :D

swivel

September 9th, 2004, 07:31 AM

I think anytime that an american that lives in places like that complains about the living conditions and american economy and stuff like that, he should be slapped in the face and shown how he would live if he was born in a 3rd world country!!

C'mon now...no need for slapin'
In LSyd's defense, he never complained or said anything of this nature...go take a look for yourself. Better yet I'll bring it to you: "while not as bad as the third world, it's some of the forms of what passes as a "slum" here".

He's dead right ...thats what would be considered slumish here if we even used the term anymore. Maybe higher end, but slumish none the less.

This may be the only thing he's been exposed to. This is what he wanted to share, so he did..Some of the images he posted would be considered " slummy " according to most in america....which brings me here....

These last few posts are an absolute perfect example of what I was trying to explain earlier....Read carefully..

I've tried to explain through out this entire thread that we do not know slums such as rios or anywhere for that matter....But some of you we're hell bent on proving slums are alive and well in the US...So fine ...we post what we would CONSIDER slums.. And what happens ..people start slapin' .

And Indian, Where we're you earlier when I needed your post! This is what I'm talking about

"Slum dwellers in US have cars, they must be pretty rich(compared to 3rd world. And they don't really look like slums, only if they coulld tidy up the place a little , it would look good.

I tried explaining this much earlier in the thread...we settled on posting what we CONSIDER U.S. slums. In my opinion ( as I've recently learned ) American Samoa is really the only true existing slum in america..the rest of our poor, unfortunate areas are considered just that...just poor hoods ..not slums...And rightfully so ...take indians post for ex.

And last but not least...

all the houses you showed would be low-middle class in Brasil, not POOR. Those are pretty good living conditions. I mean... whats so bad about living in places like that? You have electricity. Running water. Sewage. Asphalt in front of your house. You even has your OWN terrain!! In real slums, people build their houses with any material they can find on garbages and elsewhere, and they build it on terrains that DONT belong to them

We know that, Just go read the rest of the thread. I think you'll see that people are fully aware of this and in complete and total agreement

"all the houses you showed would be low-middle class in Brasil, not POOR."

Well, we're not in Brasil are we...and he never claimed them to be in worse shape...actually he did the exact opposite ...so why bash the guy for doing exactly as he was suppose to?

This thread was back on an even keel with a good vibe .
Then people forget that there are 6 other pages of text they need to read before they post.

JuanPaulo

September 9th, 2004, 08:08 AM

This thread was back on an even keel with a good vibe .
Then people forget that there are 6 other pages of text they need to read before they post.
Exactly!

FM 2258

September 9th, 2004, 08:09 AM

I honestly think slums bring character to a city. They're a fact of life and all we can do is do our best to clean them up. Slums are pretty fascinating to me. I would like to know and have the experience of living in one but I wouldn't want to have to live in one for a long time. .

AcesHigh

September 9th, 2004, 08:35 AM

C'mon now...no need for slapin'
In LSyd's defense, he never complained or said anything of this nature...go take a look for yourself. Better yet I'll bring it to you: "while not as bad as the third world, it's some of the forms of what passes as a "slum" here".

He's dead right ...thats what would be considered slumish here if we even used the term anymore. Maybe higher end, but slumish none the less.

This may be the only thing he's been exposed to. This is what he wanted to share, so he did..Some of the images he posted would be considered " slummy " according to most in america....which brings me here....

These last few posts are an absolute perfect example of what I was trying to explain earlier....Read carefully..

I've tried to explain through out this entire thread that we do not know slums such as rios or anywhere for that matter....But some of you we're hell bent on proving slums are alive and well in the US...So fine ...we post what we would CONSIDER slums.. And what happens ..people start slapin' .

And Indian, Where we're you earlier when I needed your post! This is what I'm talking about

"Slum dwellers in US have cars, they must be pretty rich(compared to 3rd world. And they don't really look like slums, only if they coulld tidy up the place a little , it would look good.

I tried explaining this much earlier in the thread...we settled on posting what we CONSIDER U.S. slums. In my opinion ( as I've recently learned ) American Samoa is really the only true existing slum in america..the rest of our poor, unfortunate areas are considered just that...just poor hoods ..not slums...And rightfully so ...take indians post for ex.

And last but not least...

We know that, Just go read the rest of the thread. I think you'll see that people are fully aware of this and in complete and total agreement

"all the houses you showed would be low-middle class in Brasil, not POOR."

Well, we're not in Brasil are we...and he never claimed them to be in worse shape...actually he did the exact opposite ...so why bash the guy for doing exactly as he was suppose to?

This thread was back on an even keel with a good vibe .
Then people forget that there are 6 other pages of text they need to read before they post.

I never bashed the guy!! Does he live in such houses and complain?? I was never talking about slaping HIM!!! When I wrote the "slaping" stuff, I was thinking about american movies of ghettos and such, with the "poor" people angry and revolted for being poor... when in fact they are far from being really poor! They live pretty well!!

The rest I posted was merely info on the brazilian situation in contrast to the american one, I never tried to CORRECT him, because his post was pretty correct from the start.

AcesHigh

September 9th, 2004, 08:37 AM

Exactly!

not exactly because I never bashed the guy!!! You guys misread my post, so in fact its you who are bashing me since Ive done nothing :)

redstone

September 9th, 2004, 10:58 AM

What on earth is going on here?

This is supposed to be a thread showing slums, but ended up as a debate about them.

If you guys want to debate, start a new thread and stop debating here!!!

swivel

September 9th, 2004, 11:04 AM

JP was talking about the vibe of the thread, which was my main reason for posting to begin with. I think the whole slap an American comment was where I would have chosen a different method of approach.

Quote:
"with the "poor" people angry and revolted for being poor., when in fact they are far from being really poor! They live pretty well!!

Well compared to a "3rd World country" yeah they're filthy rich. Compared is the key word here... The people being slapped don't live where you speak of. They live here in America where the cost of living pretty much makes up for the difference...So they are in fact poor.

I apologize if you we're misunderstood. Just please think about others and the way you word your posts in the future. All we want is a place to post images, and if need be discuss them in a civil manor.

Also...When you quote someone with a ton of pics, edit them out. It makes for a much cleaner thread with less lag.
You don't have to, but I'm sure the mods and other forumers would appreciate it....esp the 56K'ers :okay:

swivel

September 9th, 2004, 12:39 PM

If you guys want to debate, start a new thread and stop debating here!!!

Sounds simple...Thats been posted in this thread at least 10 times now. And I agree even though I hold many of these posts....It wasn't suppose to be like this.

redstone

September 9th, 2004, 01:45 PM

Well, it IS simple.

Start a new thread on whatever you guys want to debate about and maybe lock this thread! :bash:

Trances

September 9th, 2004, 02:04 PM

well i enjoyed the photos can we get back to that
was a insite to urban culture
Love the Bangkok one on the train tracks madness

huaiwei

September 9th, 2004, 02:44 PM

Also...When you quote someone with a ton of pics, edit them out. It makes for a much cleaner thread with less lag.
You don't have to, but I'm sure the mods and other forumers would appreciate it....esp the 56K'ers :okay:
Hahaa...thanks for mentioning, and yeah, that is certainly very much appreciated, not just me, but by the majority of users of this forum! ;)

LSyd

September 9th, 2004, 04:34 PM

thanks for adding clarification Swivle, although i didn't think Aceshigh was "slapping" me, or really anyone else for that matter, although the difference between a "slum" in the U.S. and Brazil is pretty obvious. although from the pics, it's an assumption all those places have power and plumbing...those things aren't free here.

i've seen worse in the U.S., in several cities, and as i've said; i just can't get to the pics and don't have time to go back to the area. i've also seen worse overseas, in particular when i was in Hungary and saw the Gypsy area of town; cheap wooden houses without doors or windows or electric lines running on the street, no pavement. i also saw a commie-block up close that i'd consider a "slum" because it had been so poorly maintained.

although i found the comment about choosing to live in squalor interesting; my friend's grandfather lived in Puerto Rico until his wife died, and lived in a shack in a poor area of San Juan despite having assets of about $ 1,000,000...the only sign that he had money was he'd dress well.

-

carfentanyl

September 9th, 2004, 05:59 PM

Europeans only feel cold when they go outside. Inside, their houses are constant 25 degrees celcius!!

Not exactly true. In my house I never turn the heating higher than 19. :)

Romanians, Albanians and Bulgarians are also Europeans btw. Believe me that there are lots of homeless people there, or people with some sort of place with no central heating at all. Roma and Sinti people have practically nothing there. In general you can probably better live in a favella than be a Roma or Sinti in Romania.

Btw, these pictures are all made in the USA between 1975 and now:

(Looks pretty slummy to me)

http://www.american-pictures.com/gallery/usa/new2-a.jpg

http://www.american-pictures.com/gallery/usa/book91tr-a.jpg

http://www.american-pictures.com/gallery/usa/book67b-a.jpg

http://www.american-pictures.com/gallery/usa/new397-a.jpg

http://www.american-pictures.com/gallery/usa/book35t-a.jpg

http://www.american-pictures.com/gallery/usa/new8-a.jpg

OK, no real slums in the USA, but just wait. Let Bush be president for 4 more years and we're getting closer! In the meantime instead of slums the USA has plenty of fine neighbourhoods like these:

http://www.american-pictures.com/gallery/usa/book230t-a.jpg

Pretty amazing for a country that is considered to be the nr. 1 economy in the world.

AcesHigh

September 9th, 2004, 07:22 PM

AcesHigh

September 9th, 2004, 07:31 PM

Not exactly true. In my house I never turn the heating higher than 19. :)

Romanians, Albanians and Bulgarians are also Europeans btw. Believe me that there are lots of homeless people there, or people with some sort of place with no central heating at all. Roma and Sinti people have practically nothing there. In general you can probably better live in a favella than be a Roma or Sinti in Romania.

I am aware that many poorer europeans or americans may not have decent heating. But in Brasil not even rich people have adequate heating systems!!

Its some kind of "we live in a tropical country, we dont need heating even if the temperature falls to 5 degrees in the winter" mentality!!

I think that if someone could bring to Brasil adequate heating systems for a good price, the same used in Europe and USA, and find a way to change mentality here, he would get rich!

Here in Brasil people use air condiotioners (ultra high energy comsumption for heating!), resistance based heaters (also ultra high energy comsumption) and a few use small portable oil heaters (moderate comsumption). What kind of heating system is used in other countries?

schmidt

September 9th, 2004, 07:56 PM

darulez

September 9th, 2004, 08:33 PM

Bangkok slum will dissapear within 5 years, its becoming less and less , most of those pictures I see are very old. The very old klong toey picture I saw above is changing as well, it is the biggest slum area in Bangkok, today they are building skyscrapers and new fresh luxury apartments in that area.....Time changes, so why show old pics from the early 90s on here??And where are the people who lived there? They simply disappeared? I never heared of a good social security in Thailand and poverty won't disappear in only 10 years...

swivel

September 9th, 2004, 09:46 PM

________________________________________________

thanks for adding clarification Swivle, although i didn't think Aceshigh was "slapping" me, or really anyone else for that matter.

:) Sure thing....and yes, of course he wasn't.

________________________________________________

Btw, these pictures are all made in the USA between 1975 and now:

Those pics are brutal. By far the worst I've ever seen in the states. There are places like this in almost every state though.
(Dallas TX) - I stay in Expo Park south of downtown. Beside me is Fair Park, parts of which some conditions are similar...I've never seen anything as bad as where you posted first hand, but thats not to say they're not down here too...Parts of Oakcliff, Pleasant Grove.. But the area east of I-45/I-20 is the worst I know of...I'll try to get out this afternoon and take some pics...

________________________________________________

Hahaa...thanks for mentioning, and yeah, that is certainly very much appreciated, not just me, but by the majority of users of this forum! ;)

Anytime... :D

________________________________________________

well i enjoyed the photos can we get back to that....... train track madness

How about The South Bronx ?.......I can help you out there....images aren't slums, but real slum like :sly:

.

swivel

September 9th, 2004, 10:31 PM

(These aren't the pics I was talking about above....Those are rail images.)

South Bronx slummin'

No date given...My guess is early to mid 90's.....maybe older. "Captions quoted"

"Reality of urban ghettos in America. The South Bronx, where burnt cars and garbage fill the streets, and people actually live in these buildings."
http://www.danhagerman.com/images/South%20Bronx.jpg

"From the safety of an elevated subway, view of a couple strolling the mean streets of the South Bronx in New York."
http://www.danhagerman.com/images/Bronx%20Ghetto.jpg

"Two children play on rusted bed springs in a South Bronx playground."
http://www.danhagerman.com/images/South%20Bronx%20Playground.jpg

South Bronx in 1988

http://www.msg.es/gfx/bronx88.jpg

carfentanyl

September 9th, 2004, 10:38 PM

________________________________________________

Those pics are brutal. By far the worst I've ever seen in the states. There are places like this in almost every state though.
(Dallas TX) - I stay in Expo Park south of downtown. Beside me is Fair Park, parts of which some conditions are similar...I've never seen anything as bad as where you posted first hand, but thats not to say they're not down here too...Parts of Oakcliff, Pleasant Grove.. But the area east of I-45/I-20 is the worst I know of...I'll try to get out this afternoon and take some pics...

________________________________________________

Yeah, they are pretty bad. The lowest picture is east St. Louis, which is probably one of the worst looking areas in the whole states. It's weird, but if we Dutch people sometimes see the sizes of some of the houses which are considered to be in the ghetto, we're like WTF? If you wanna own a house that size overhere you have to be at least upper middleclass.

But then I'm talking about some of the ghettos in the south and west. The big cities more up north like NY, Philly, Chicago, Detroit, St. Louis, etc have a lot of those brownstones and residential highrises. They give the whole area an even worse look. Just think of Cabrini Green in Chicago or ofcourse the South Bronx and west Philly. The bad areas in my country are more like that density wise.

Fortunately our government has always been doing a great job with tearing down appartment blocks that look too run down and replace them with new buildings. My city(Rotterdam), Amsterdam and Den Haag (The Hague) have done some great jobs with renovation projects.

But I hear they're doing some great things in the Bronx and Cabrini too.

swivel

September 9th, 2004, 11:03 PM

It's weird, but if we Dutch people sometimes see the sizes of some of the houses which are considered to be in the ghetto, we're like WTF? If you wanna own a house that size overhere you have to be at least upper middleclass.

I had no clue! Is it because of property value or what ?

Fortunately our government has always been doing a great job with tearing down appartment blocks that look too run down and replace them with new buildings. My city(Rotterdam), Amsterdam and Den Haag (The Hague) have done some great jobs with renovation projects.

I can't wait to visit. :drool: :D

But I hear they're doing some great things in the Bronx and Cabrini too.

Mos Def....SouthBronx has improved drasticly since the 80's, and still continues to strengthen today.
If you didn't see it earlier in the thread, I posted links to a series on The Bronx of "Then and Now" Part 1 (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=115376) & Part II (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=115869)
...check em' out....make sure to hit the link below before you go. :D :)

Listen Hear Jive Sucka.. (http://rainweb2.streamguys.com/radioplayer.aspx?channel=Channel12&sub=SubMCs&mtype=iewm9)

carfentanyl

September 9th, 2004, 11:29 PM

I had no clue! Is it because of property value or what ?

Yup. The Netherlands is the most densely populated country of Europe. We have a small 16.5 million people in an area 187 times smaller than Australia. And they have about 19 million!

Texas: 695,622 sq km (21,000,000 people)
Netherlands: 33,883 sq km (16,500,000 people)

That makes my country almost 20 times as crowded as Texas.

I can't wait to visit. :drool: :D

Mos Def....SouthBronx has improved drasticly since the 80's, and still continues to strengthen today.
If you didn't see it earlier in the thread, I posted links to a series on The Bronx of "Then and Now" Part 1 (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=115376) & Part II (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=115869)
...check em' out :)

Already checked them out! :)

I first saw the state of the South Bronx when I was 10 and saw the movie Beat Street, A 1984 movie. I saw it in 87 though. That movie also gave me my love for graffiti.

You're always welcome to visit! My country's economy can need some more Americans spending their money to enjoy and inhale the Dutch culture! ;)

Good link, btw!

swivel

September 10th, 2004, 12:04 AM

Texas: 695,622 sq km (21,000,000 people)
Netherlands: 33,883 sq km (16,500,000 people)

That makes my country almost 20 times as crowded as Texas.

:eek: That's nuckin' futs !

You're always welcome to visit! My country's economy can need some more Americans spending their money to enjoy and inhale the Dutch culture! ;)

beautiful.. :eat:

If you dig graffiti check out these threads. Theres another audio link in my signature..Look for
Ninjatune @ Accu Radio...Enjoy!

We don't need no stinking brushes....Graffiti # 2...more than you can possibly handle (http://skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=117453)

Rattle can olympics...Graffiti #3...NYC.....Bronx, Manhattan, Brooklyn (http://skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=117419)

Hey Kids !.......Who wants Graffiti ? (http://skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=117476)

NYC Subway Graffiti (http://skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=117915)

9-11 Graffiti Tributes (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=117906)

These are my two favorites...

Great (http://shots.oxo.li/graffiti/bw001.jpg)

Wallpapers (http://www.pbase.com/image/27227904.jpg)

AcesHigh

September 10th, 2004, 12:21 AM

Actually most of the people in Brazil have air conditioning for getting the environment cooler. I think it would be unbearable living here without air conditioning, it just gets too hot in the summer.

But I think it's not really necessary to use heating in Brazil, I mean, there's no need to bring sophisticated heating systems into the country since only a very small part of the population are exposed to such low temps. I mean, when it's 8ºC outside it's pretty comfortable inside, just close your window and get some warm clothes on.

I think I would never buy a heating system, although if I was rich enough I would definetly have a central air conditioning system.

Oh and by the way even some houses in Rocinha have air conditioners and you must remember that nowadays the Rio's city government is investing in slum urbanisation as well, I hope their major gets re-elected (we're having municipal elections in october) and keeps on with this great project.

thats the mentality I am talking about!! What if MOST of the country lives in the tropical area?? Still, the 3 southern states are outside the tropics, and 25 million people live there!! If the 3 southern states were to separate from Brasil and become an independent country then you would support heating systems here, since then "THE ENTIRE COUNTRY" would be outside the tropics? The way you are talking seems like there would be one "central heating system in Brasil" which would be useless for most of the country!! Heating systems are bought by who needs them. So if the south of Brasil needs them, what does the rest of Brasil, which doesnt needs them, has to do with it??

"I mean, when it's 8ºC outside it's pretty comfortable inside, just close your window and get some warm clothes on." Sorry, but when its 8C outside, its about 12, 14 degrees inside. Thats not comfortable. You need lots of clothes to get confortable with such temperatures. People actually use thick jackets inside their houses in Brasil... jackets that would only be used when going outside in other countries.

swivel

September 10th, 2004, 02:13 AM

South Bronx...

Manhattan from The Bronx in 78'
http://www.unipa.it/premiocestelli/album/image13.jpg

These next images are black and whites By Allan Tannenbaum. No dates are posted but my guess is around 80-85'.

http://www.sohoweeklynews.com/Book/ManGodLaw/images/South_Bronx_Rubble.jpg

http://www.sohoweeklynews.com/Book/ManGodLaw/images/South_Bronx_Ruins_Girl1.jpg

http://www.sohoweeklynews.com/Book/ManGodLaw/images/South_Bronx_Ruins_Girl2.jpg

http://www.sohoweeklynews.com/Book/ManGodLaw/images/South_Bronx_Streetscene.jpg

http://www.sohoweeklynews.com/Book/ManGodLaw/images/South_Bronx_Subway.jpg

Smaller images....

http://www.americatravelling.net/usa/new_york/bronx/images/g-willis_ave._bridge.gif
http://www.americatravelling.net/usa/new_york/bronx/images/g-buildings.jpg http://www.americatravelling.net/usa/new_york/bronx/images/g-across_the_river.jpg http://www.americatravelling.net/usa/new_york/bronx/images/g-south_bronx.jpg http://www.americatravelling.net/usa/new_york/bronx/images/g-streets.jpg http://www.americatravelling.net/usa/new_york/bronx/images/g-yankees_stadium.jpg

.
The First Image is From the 7 train in Western Queens
http://ofb.net/~epstein/sl/20030921-graffiti.jpg http://ofb.net/~epstein/sl/20030925-accordingly.jpg

Images taken in 1982
http://www.uwinnipeg.ca/academic/as/polsci/urban/images/021.jpg http://www.uwinnipeg.ca/academic/as/polsci/urban/images/018.jpg http://www.uwinnipeg.ca/academic/as/polsci/urban/images/019.jpg http://www.uwinnipeg.ca/academic/as/polsci/urban/images/020.jpg http://www.uwinnipeg.ca/academic/as/polsci/urban/images/020.jpg

swivel

September 10th, 2004, 02:52 AM

More SBX

Taken in 2000

http://www.chem.ryukoku.ac.jp/~nakaoki/NewYork/SouthBronx/pic5.JPG http://www.chem.ryukoku.ac.jp/~nakaoki/NewYork/SouthBronx/pic6.JPG http://www.chem.ryukoku.ac.jp/~nakaoki/NewYork/SouthBronx/pic9.JPG http://www.chem.ryukoku.ac.jp/~nakaoki/NewYork/SouthBronx/pic11.JPG http://www.chem.ryukoku.ac.jp/~nakaoki/NewYork/SouthBronx/pic12.JPG http://www.chem.ryukoku.ac.jp/~nakaoki/NewYork/SouthBronx/pic7.JPG

1973 SBX
http://pc.smellycat.com/pics/metropolitan/pcwreckcrane155st10-10-73sz.jpg

2003
http://datavibe.net/~doris/nycnye/lost%20in%20the%20bronx%204.jpg http://datavibe.net/~doris/nycnye/lost%20in%20the%20bronx%205.jpg

Slum Skiers
http://i.timeinc.net/freeze/content/images/FR1003_w1w01-os.jpg

Great Aerial View
http://www.prestonhs.org/images/building/aerial_view.jpg

swivel

September 10th, 2004, 03:07 AM

Only a couple more...
http://mattdrake.mit.edu/pictures/ironmaidenconcert/NY03.JPG

http://www.cubicallycontained.com/nyc/road%20trip/road8.jpg

Taipei101

September 10th, 2004, 03:42 AM

Slums in New York are mostly inhabited by Pueto Ricans?

swivel

September 10th, 2004, 06:43 AM

Slums in New York are mostly inhabited by Pueto Ricans?

No? What makes you ask that?
kinda rude there buddy.....

J Block

September 10th, 2004, 07:27 AM

I think this guy's been watching too much "West Side Story" here...

fox1

September 10th, 2004, 07:52 AM

NY slums, Bronx
http://www.pbase.com/image/27227879.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/image/27227891.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/image/27227900.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/image/27227906.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/image/27227907.jpg
i love these shots!

nazrey

September 10th, 2004, 08:04 AM

In Brasil we still has many of this

http://www.dd4u.ch/brazil/images/DSC01583.JPG

This pic in Brazil is fun!!!

AcesHigh

September 10th, 2004, 08:25 AM

sorry, why is it fun?

To all americans: stop rubbing your richness in our face :)

Some of those highrise slums look very fine! It seems that the only thing that keeps middle class away from american slums are the NEIGHBOURS, not exactly the constructions, location, etc...

nazrey

September 10th, 2004, 08:34 AM

Bcoz I like it !

redstone

September 10th, 2004, 08:38 AM

Looks like a glacier! :D

nazrey

September 10th, 2004, 08:41 AM

Some slums in Kuala Lumpur

http://img73.exs.cx/img73/3476/21568860g.jpg

http://img12.exs.cx/img12/5840/21568862ed.jpg

http://img10.exs.cx/img10/2746/3785863j.jpg

close up of some apartments beside.

http://img12.exs.cx/img12/6897/3785865d.jpg

redstone

September 10th, 2004, 08:45 AM

http://www.sfogs.com.sg/ktm/ktm8.jpg
KTM Quarters, Singapore.

KTM is the Malaysian national railway company.

szehoong

September 10th, 2004, 09:00 AM

http://www.sfogs.com.sg/ktm/ktm8.jpg
KTM Quarters, Singapore.

KTM is the Malaysian national railway company.

Nope....those are not KTM's quarters.......I dunno why the slums are there but KTM quarters are definitely not in Singapore but in Malaysia......not trying to be defensive or what but KTM quarters are proper apartments not slums ;)

szehoong

September 10th, 2004, 09:10 AM

Some slums in Kuala Lumpur

http://img73.exs.cx/img73/3476/21568860g.jpg

This is Kampung Abdullah Hukum (Abdullah Hukum Village). This is one of the Malay settlement villages and definitely not slums. If you looked carefully there are cars in the picture, proper street, electricity poles and satellite dishes. The streets are very narrow but they are laid out mostly in grid ;)

Thanks to its close proximity to the city centre, a private developer recently had built a few blocks of apartments for the relocation of this village, making way for some high-rise developement there. Note the buildings in the background - Midvalley City - which sits on the other half of the village which the residents had since been relocated :)

ryanr

September 10th, 2004, 09:13 AM

Where are the slums in this picture? All i see is Hilton, trees and a roadway.
http://img12.exs.cx/img12/5840/21568862ed.jpg

szehoong

September 10th, 2004, 09:15 AM

Where are the slums in this picture? All i see is Hilton, trees and a roadway.

Maybe the Hilton? :lol: :lol: :lol:

szehoong

September 10th, 2004, 09:18 AM

Some slums in Kuala Lumpur

http://img10.exs.cx/img10/2746/3785863j.jpg

I dun see slums in this picture as well but rows and rows of 70s shophouses :) But the apartments (the shorter ones with assorted colours) could be categorized as 'high-rise slums' as some units could be quite dilapidated. But a recent paint-job and minor renovation to those apartment blocks had given the buildings a new lease of life ;)

ryanr

September 10th, 2004, 09:25 AM

huaiwei

September 10th, 2004, 09:31 AM

http://www.sfogs.com.sg/ktm/ktm8.jpg
KTM Quarters, Singapore.

KTM is the Malaysian national railway company.
What do you mean by "KTM Quaters"???

From what I know, these are mostly Malaysian folks who squat on land when they arent supposed to, but of coz Singapore cant evict them because it is not under our jurisdiction, and the KTM has not really tried to get them out until recently in some places?

Btw, in the entire country of Singapore, there is only one kampong left....at Lorong Buangkok. In a sense, it is kinda odd calling it a "slum," because it is more like a suburban village appearing in the middle of what was once jungle, rather then a dilapated urban area, which is a more typical description of a "slum?"

I would think our "slums" might be the yet-to-be-restored shophouses, and the yet-to-be-renovated/restored/redeveloped high-rise commieblocks! :D

nazrey

September 10th, 2004, 10:11 AM

redstone

September 10th, 2004, 10:11 AM

Dunno.That's what they call it, officially.

Kampong Wak Hassan is a true kampong, right?

There are still some 'mini kampongs' in Yishun and Jurong.
Once in a very long while they appear on TV.

szehoong

September 10th, 2004, 10:41 AM

Are there still slum areas in KL? I read in Far Eastern Economic Review a place called Kampung Baru (or something like that, i forgot) which is ironic because it is not "Baru" (new). It is an area left behind by the rest of KL. Its reasonably close to the Petronas Towers, as they showed a pic with the towers right behind it. The article said something about the people being untouchables or something like that. It looked like a shantytown.

Well.....Kampung Baru is named as such because it is a 'new' settlement then (over a hundred years ago)....obviously the name got stuck till today :D

It is left behind because the land been an exclusive Malay agro land (a legacy of the British admin) and they are not allowed to be sold to non-Malays. Yup......it is practically next door to KLCC (where Petronas Towers are). Far Eastern Economic Review is erroneous in saying that Kampung Baru people are 'untouchables' as there is no such social hierarchy in Malaysia. And Kampung Baru definitely isn't a shanty town.

Here's some pictures of Kampung Baru:

http://img51.photobucket.com/albums/v157/baqthier/pkns1.jpg

http://img51.photobucket.com/albums/v157/baqthier/pknsaer1.jpg

^^^ If one could see, Kampung Baru are laid out in proper a proper grid system - something even the 'more developed' part of KL failed! :D :D :D

huaiwei

September 10th, 2004, 10:45 AM

Dunno.That's what they call it, officially.

Kampong Wak Hassan is a true kampong, right?

There are still some 'mini kampongs' in Yishun and Jurong.
Once in a very long while they appear on TV.
I wont take the source of your photo and the caption as the "definitive authority!"

Those are simply not KTM quatters. You mean you expect KTM workers to actually live in those? ;)

redstone

September 10th, 2004, 10:47 AM

Not sure, but last year I heard the govt is gonna clear them all soon.

Been to Kg Wak Hassan?
It is beside Sembawang Park, by the sea.

huaiwei

September 10th, 2004, 10:51 AM

Not sure, but last year I heard the govt is gonna clear them all soon.

Been to Kg Wak Hassan?
It is beside Sembawang Park, by the sea.
I read about it in the news too, but it cannot be the sg govt doing it. As I said, we do not have the right to do so...only KTM does.

And nope...didnt go to that kampong or whatever it was left. Kinda strange why they suddenly declare the Buangkok one as the only kampong left, when the one at Ubin was still around, as well as in some really secluded areas?

szehoong

September 10th, 2004, 11:01 AM

More pictures of Kampung Baru just in case someone dispute that it is a slum :D :D :D :

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v157/baqthier/kgbarunew.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v157/baqthier/kgbarunew2.jpg

leealex_24

September 10th, 2004, 11:47 AM

I dont think there are any slums at all in KL except ugly looking apartments, which are definitely not slums.

rayman

September 10th, 2004, 11:49 AM

what is the population of Kuala lumpur??

nazrey

September 10th, 2004, 11:51 AM

Kampong Baru have their own subway LRT station.The couple of yellow roof beside the street.
http://www.kliaekspres.com/other%20pages/Trains%20&%20Routes/images/route.gif

http://img51.photobucket.com/albums/v157/baqthier/kgbarupsr.jpg

ryanr

September 10th, 2004, 11:56 AM

hmm...Its not bad. Looks middle class to me, or if not, lower middle class. Definitely not a slum. Thanks for the details, Szehoong:)

Far Eastern Economic Review showed bad photos of it...the uglier parts. Thats why i thought it was a slum.

ryanr

September 10th, 2004, 12:00 PM

Thanks nazrey, for the additional info and pics:)

So there are no more slums in KL? Good job for Malaysia. Hopefully Metro Manila can do the same thing by 2017 (ADB and the RP govt's target).

Cauo

September 11th, 2004, 07:35 PM

Thanks nazrey, for the additional info and pics:)

So there are no more slums in KL? Good job for Malaysia. Hopefully Metro Manila can do the same thing by 2017 (ADB and the RP govt's target). i find this one is an interesting thread ..... more plaese .....

Poska

September 12th, 2004, 07:16 AM

Some Paris "slums"

http://erasmus.m0k.org/bobignystyle.jpg

http://www.jeremy-henderson.co.uk/gallery/albums/Nanterre,QuartierPicasso/DSC00369.jpg

http://www.92express.net/92ex/images_ciel/luth.jpg

http://www.bonvie.info/duchere_1.jpg

http://www.cndp.fr/archivage/Valid/Videos/3142/3142-107-115.jpg

Cauo

September 12th, 2004, 11:54 AM

Dziki REX

September 12th, 2004, 12:33 PM

Maybe in France in such commieblocks live many criminals or unemployed people. It makes wrong image of commieblocks. In eastern Europe that would be quite normal, and slums looks different.

Maybe it’s not typical slums too but that’s the worst look of Gdansk in Poland
Lower Orulnia
http://100tka.net/~dziki/Gdansk/orunia1.jpg
http://100tka.net/~dziki/Gdansk/orunia2.jpg
http://100tka.net/~dziki/Gdansk/orunia3.jpg
http://100tka.net/~dziki/Gdansk/orunia4.jpg
http://100tka.net/~dziki/Gdansk/orunia5.jpg

redstone

September 12th, 2004, 12:58 PM

Singapore HAD slums.

Now many of them are conserved and re-adapted into anything from hotels to offices.

Poska

September 12th, 2004, 01:12 PM

why are the quartier picasso in nanterre a slum (i mean the towers of nanterre looks healty to me ? ) do you have an answear ?

"Pablo picasso" is a bad hood cause it's one of the hoods of paris metro where the biggest drug dealers are. This hood is really well known for that in Paris.
If u want some weed or other shit u'll find what u want in Pablo Picasso.
The towers don't mean anything, the kids who live there are crazy.

Dziki REX

September 12th, 2004, 01:17 PM

DnH

September 12th, 2004, 04:20 PM

american slums are not the best but some of the shot's you've posted is industrial houses..

LSyd

September 12th, 2004, 09:49 PM

To all americans: stop rubbing your richness in our face :)

Some of those highrise slums look very fine! It seems that the only thing that keeps middle class away from american slums are the NEIGHBOURS, not exactly the constructions, location, etc...

please dont compare american cities with third world countrys..

dry your tears, this is WORLD slumscape...

-

AcesHigh

September 12th, 2004, 10:14 PM

Some Paris "slums"

http://www.jeremy-henderson.co.uk/gallery/albums/Nanterre,QuartierPicasso/DSC00369.jpg

SURREAL!!

LSyd

September 12th, 2004, 10:31 PM

^ whoa...looks like it came out of a cartoon or sci-fi movie.

-

Trances

September 12th, 2004, 10:33 PM

SURREAL!!
very much so looks like it belongs on the moon or some thing

rayman

September 12th, 2004, 10:38 PM

looks like clay buildings made by kids

Cauo

September 12th, 2004, 11:04 PM

"Pablo picasso" is a bad hood cause it's one of the hoods of paris metro where the biggest drug dealers are. This hood is really well known for that in Paris.
If u want some weed or other shit u'll find what u want in Pablo Picasso.
The towers don't mean anything, the kids who live there are crazy.

Why you say "the kids who live there are crazy " ..... do you mean they are criminals or what ..... ? and it is dangerouis to go into pablo picasso or not , because the towers looks lucky and nice from facade but nobody of us know the towers looks inside ;) right ......

Poska

September 13th, 2004, 12:48 AM

^ whoa...looks like it came out of a cartoon or sci-fi movie.

-

Yea, in Paris some people call this hood Gotham city. It's just at 1km from La Defense. U can see the hood from La Grande Arche.

Poska

September 13th, 2004, 12:56 AM

Why you say "the kids who live there are crazy " ..... do you mean they are criminals or what ..... ? and it is dangerouis to go into pablo picasso or not , because the towers looks lucky and nice from facade but nobody of us know the towers looks inside ;) right ......

There are big drug dealers there. U can enter in the hood but i don't think u'll get out with all ur money or all ur clothes if u don't come to buy weed. Especially if u're a tourist...

AcesHigh

September 13th, 2004, 01:00 AM

i said those towers look surreal... not that they look beautiful. Probably, the uglist buildings in the whole Paris.

Dong Ha Lee

September 13th, 2004, 01:03 AM

All I can say is that Seoul is slum free!! Its now either old apartments or old houses... there might be a couple of houses considered "slums" but its not a whole neighbourhood.

Poska

September 13th, 2004, 01:13 AM

A tower in Pablo picasso projects (Paris)

http://ve2.ele.etsmtl.ca/~va2mek/paris_nanterre/DSCN7576.jpg

Trances

September 13th, 2004, 01:32 AM

are there enough windows there ?
suprised you cant see people pressed up against the windows screaming to get out

Dubai-Lover

September 13th, 2004, 01:38 AM

the pablo picasso project has nothing to do with art! this is just intenioned spoiling of a beautiful city!

Triumph Speed3

September 13th, 2004, 01:55 AM

yeah there still are some slum but those pics above are so old, and it was more slums in Bangkok in the past, now it is very much less than in the past. So please show some little more update pics pls...

here I have some update pics of the real Bangkok in a nicer way :)
pictures taken by chemon

No offense Rayman,

I love Thailand,
I have been there 4 times already and planning to go there this winter again.
but dude, Thailand is nowhere near being an idustrialized Asian country like Japan or those four Asian Tigers. It still has a long way to go. You make Thailand sound like it is Switzerland or something. Slum is reality, it is nothing to be ashamed of. Slums exist in even in the wealthies cities in the world. Look at NYC and Berlin. I saw alot of slums when I was in Bangkok last year, such as Klong Toey or out skirt of Bangkok.
I love Thailand for its amazing nature, friendly people and ancient culture, I don't find modernized sections of Bangkok particularly appealing. I would go to Tokyo if I want cleanness or modernity, not Bangkok. modern and clean does not always mean nice.

Triumph Speed3

September 13th, 2004, 02:00 AM

The largest slum in the world: Dharavi(Mumbai).

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v451/triumph_yale/85696105clurUI_ph.jpg
http://www.wcc-coe.org/wcc/what/jpc/pictures/mumbai1.jpg
http://ivo.nu/albums/india-apr03/mumbai.jpg
http://www.welovetravel.net/travel/photo/asia/india2000/mum-web/images/a1-f-99-house.jpg

Trances

September 13th, 2004, 02:05 AM

oh wow that last one is amazeing !
with the houses on the rock looks like mud flats some where

baqthier

September 13th, 2004, 02:15 AM

Trances

September 13th, 2004, 02:16 AM

i remeber that very funny good contrast still !

Osborne

September 13th, 2004, 05:09 AM

Some of the pictures on this thread are amazing.

What's interesting is that in Australia, there are virtually no slums in our cities, however in the remote, rural and outback parts on the country, people are living in third world poverty, particularly idigenous groups.

Because most Australians never go to such remote areas, let alone tourists, there is an impression that Australia is slum free. This is incorrect.

Suncity

September 13th, 2004, 07:28 AM

The largest slum in the world: Dharavi(Mumbai).

WOW! That's a lot of EMPHASIS!!!

NGOs generally claim it to be the largest in Asia.

BTW did you visit Dharavi in your seven month or other hellish trips in India?
I remember reading your Indian experiences where you saw dead bodies in Paharganj and people in Kolkata brushing their teeth with dirty water, the hot and horrible weather, banana lassis leading to upset belly, foreigners suffering from malaria, the worst airports and the worst road! It was interesting to read about the "real" India from your many posts.

For more about Dharavi (Yes, Indians also post about slums in India and not just "glittering" buildings).

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=122088

szehoong

September 13th, 2004, 07:58 AM

Producer of Entrapment, Sean Connery wasn't happy that Kuala Lumpur has no slums. So he decided do a "facelift" by superimposing KL some nasty stuffs that looked bad, though not as demented as him.

Entrapment scene! OMG! Canal Tour in KL?!
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/photopost/data/2/9kl.jpg

ACTUAL thing!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v157/baqthier/klscene0911.jpg
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/photopost/data/2/9klpanorama.jpg
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/photopost/data/2/9nce.jpg
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/photopost/data/2/9pic81.jpg

Regardless that entrapment sabotaged my city..thanks for those close views of Petronas :P

yea.....a lot of people whom haven't been to KL think that is real! :eek: :D

To increase the exotic fair of the movie, instead of staying at the various hotels in KL which are very cheap, they decided to stay in some run-down shophouse (and they just had to access it from a 'dirty' backlane as if shophouses do not have shop-front access).

The funny thing is that they could afford to stay in London (and even stayed at an expensive hotel there) while in KL they had to live in some run-down place. Oh......and they had the money to rent a Mercedes limo to the new year's party! :lol:

It is funny to Malaysians cos most of the stuffs in the movie is just too fake (unlike of how these Hollywood studios portray American cities) :D :D :D

Triumph Speed3

September 13th, 2004, 08:52 AM

WOW THOSE ARE BOLD LETTERS WITH A LOT OF EMPHASIS!!!

NGOs generally claim it to be the largest in Asia.

BTW did you visit Dharavi in your seven month or other hellish trips in India?

Aren't you the one who saw dead bodies in Paharganj and people in Kolkata brushing their teeth with sewer water.

For more about Dharavi

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=122088

Yes, it is me! :)
Been to India twice(well, actually 3 times if you include a short trip)
i hope you don't think I hate India. I am an outdoor sports/ adrenaline junkie and that region of Asia(Nepal, Pakistan, India, Bangladesh) is a paradise for me, so full of adventures.

Aren't you the one who saw dead bodies in Paharganj and people in Kolkata brushing their teeth with sewer water, the hot and horrible weather, banana lassis leading to upset belly, foreigners suffering from malaria, the worst airports and the worst road!

Did I say something wrong? Did I lie?
Have you been to India?

Yes, I saw dead bodies in Paraganj and other places in India, I saw people taking sh*t and piss on the street everywhere in India, the summer in Delhi is hellish, almost everyone gets sick from food in India, India is the least hygienic nation I have been to( I have been to over 30 countries so far), one of the worst airports in the world(not the worst, my 2nd pick), the worst road(Grand Trunk Road) etc.
Do you want me to go on?
Are you saying what I said is wrong?
All I know is that all those nice photos you guys post here are not REAL India. Why can't you guys accept Indian as what it really is and pretend to be something else?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v451/triumph_yale/map_with_route02.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v451/triumph_yale/varanasi.jpg

Imperfect Ending

September 13th, 2004, 09:49 AM

yea.....a lot of people whom haven't been to KL think that is real! :eek: :D

To increase the exotic fair of the movie, instead of staying at the various hotels in KL which are very cheap, they decided to stay in some run-down shophouse (and they just had to access it from a 'dirty' backlane as if shophouses do not have shop-front access).

The funny thing is that they could afford to stay in London (and even stayed at an expensive hotel there) while in KL they had to live in some run-down place. Oh......and they had the money to rent a Mercedes limo to the new year's party! :lol:

It is funny to Malaysians cos most of the stuffs in the movie is just too fake (unlike of how these Hollywood studios portray American cities) :D :D :D

same goes for Bangkok.. :(

Cauo

September 13th, 2004, 12:21 PM

There are big drug dealers there. U can enter in the hood but i don't think u'll get out with all ur money or all ur clothes if u don't come to buy weed. Especially if u're a tourist... ooh , that sounds scary , is that a project were lives the "social waste" of paris , (sorry for this extreme word i dont mean it so ....

what people life there , are there arabic or black people life , and can the police dont spot this crime there ... and are the drug dealers inhabitans of "pablo picasso "

Suncity

September 13th, 2004, 04:09 PM

Did I say something wrong? Did I lie?

It's your personal experience.

Have you been to India?

Hmm...Good Question.

Yes, I saw dead bodies in Paraganj and other places in India, I saw people taking sh*t and piss on the street everywhere in India, the summer in Delhi is hellish, almost everyone gets sick from food in India, India is the least hygienic nation I have been to( I have been to over 30 countries so far), one of the worst airports in the world(not the worst, my 2nd pick), the worst road(Grand Trunk Road) etc.

So you are the world veteran and India expert. I have visited many cities in the world and India too. I have seen places worse than Kolkata. But I never believe in passing judgements like the "WORST IN THE WORLD". "DIRTIEST IN THE WORLD" etc...

Do you want me to go on? Are you saying what I said is wrong?

This is a free forum. It's your wish whether you want to go on trashing India as you have already done in many threads.

Though I do find your experiences a bit one sided.

All I know is that all those nice photos you guys post here are not REAL India. Why can't you guys accept Indian as what it really is and pretend to be something else?

This is the moot point that I object to. (I don't really care much about your personal experience)

You have said this before too.

Who says that we don't accept India the way it is? We accept India the way it is but we also want it to improve and become a better nation. Go to the India section / Asia section and see the postings and discussions before you jump to conclusions. It's not just a "rosy" picture of India there. People are seriously discussing the problems and issues related to urban India.

BTW it also needs to be pointed out that this forum is basically about skylines, skyscrapers, buildings and urban development activities. So I don't see why people should not be posting pictures of such developments in India in this forum. Just because India has slums doesn't mean India cannot have building projects/development activities as well. Posting pictures of such projects in no way means that they present an "unreal" (or "real") picture of India!

I find it a bit too convenient to dismiss it off as "pretending to be something else"??? WOW!

The "nice" photos are also part of India just as the slums of Dharavi are. There is no "pretension" to it. . Check out the thread on fishing village and other discussions about slums in India. They have been started and discussed by Indians. And they will continue to be discussed in the hundreds of Indian forums because it's something we have to deal with and improve.

India is a mix of many levels of living. There's super poor and super rich. There's a big middle class too from lower middle class to upper middle class. No one can just pick and choose any particlular section and say that this is the "REAL" India. Even India veterans will never make that mistake.

Having lived in India for over two decades (and a portion of it in some of the worst slums), I think I know more about "REAL" India than many others. But even I won't dare to claim I know all of "REAL" India.

Poska

September 13th, 2004, 04:45 PM

ooh , that sounds scary , is that a project were lives the "social waste" of paris , (sorry for this extreme word i dont mean it so ....

what people life there , are there arabic or black people life , and can the police dont spot this crime there ... and are the drug dealers inhabitans of "pablo picasso "

It's just a housing project so people with low incomes live there.In every city in the world there are housing projects, it's normal. In France most of the people who live in these hoods have arabic origins or african origins and there are some asiatics too. It's not like in USA where u got black ghettos, porto rican ghettos... The french housing projects are "multiracial".
Yea the drug dealers live there... for the moment. When they got enough money they buy a house far from the projects and u got kids who replace them cause customers will still come to the hood ....

Triumph Speed3

September 13th, 2004, 08:07 PM

So you are the world veteran and India expert. I have visited many cities in the world and India too. I have seen places worse than Kolkata.

Name cities you visited that have more poverty and slumbs than ones in India. I have a hard time believing someone who once lived in the worst slums in India travelling all over the world.

India is a mix of many levels of living. There's super poor and super rich. There's a big middle class too from lower middle class to upper middle class. No one can just pick and choose any particlular section and say that this is the "REAL" India. Even India veterans will never make that mistake.

Middle class did not exist in the 50, 60's in India and there has been an impressive growth in middle class in recent years in India, but don't make it sound like that there are more middle class people in happy la la land than people in extreme poverty and Dalits. Over 400 million Indians live below the poverty line, that is over 40% of your population, and there are another millions of lower class people. that is more than 300 million middle class+wealthy Indians.

Check out the thread on fishing village and other discussions about slums in India. They have been started and discussed by Indians.

Sorry, I haven't read any posts about you guys dealing with poverty issues in India, the vibe I was getting were that you guys are denying the majority of India, and praising westernization that only applies to very few Indians.

The impressions I got from my visits in India were that most middle class Indians think they are so much superior than the majority of Indians, 400 million+ Indians living below the poverty line, the ones sleep on the street, don't have sewer system at their homes, can't afford to go to school etc. I have talked to some educated young Indians who actually believe that there are more middle class happy Indians than poor ones, and India's future is bright and trouble free. Some of them even despise poors and embarrassed of them.

Go do some volunteer work if you are really concerned about India.

And sorry if I sounded too harsh, I love India but I am very disappointed with educated middle class Indians.

Suncity

September 13th, 2004, 08:54 PM

Name cities that have more poverty and slumbs than ones in India.

I usually avoid saying anything bad about any place that's not my country on this forum. If it's not my country I will generally not say anything that's uncharitable. People on this forum post pictures of their countries so that others can appreciate it.

BTW there are plenty of places with more slums and poverty.

I have a hard time believing someone who once lived in the worst slums in India travelling all over the world.

What's hard to believe in that? You pre-judge people. A lot of Indians have humble and poor backgrounds and they do manage to do well through hard work and studies. Even the President of India and Prime Minister of India are from humble backgrounds. The President's father collected sea shells for a living and the Prime Minister comes from a poor farmer family.

Middle class did not exist in the 50, 60's in India and there has been an impressive growth in middle class in recent years in India, but don't make it sound like that there are more middle class people than people in extreme poverty and Dalits. Over 400 million Indians live below the poverty line, that is over 40% of your population, that is more than 300 million middle class Indians.

Middle class existed in 50s and 60s but the numbers were small. Now they are 300 million as per you. So the growth of the middle class has been impressive!

On the other hand the percentage of poor has also gone down a lot from over 75% to 26%. The numbers are still huge but the rate of growth of poverty has also come down a lot. That's not a mean achievement. Every Indian realizes that there is much more to be done.

BTW who is making it sound that there are more middle class Indian than poor Indians? Did I say that in any of my posts? I don't think anyone else did that either. So don't see why you have to criticize something that has not been said.

Sorry, I haven't read any posts about you guys dealing with poverty issues in India, the vibe I was getting were that you guys are denying the majority of India, and praising westernization that only applies to very few Indians.

Show me a statement by an Indian on this forum where people have denied that poverty exists in India.

You really have got some cliched ideas about India and Indians.

The impressions I got from my visits in India were that most middle class Indians think they are so much superior than 400 million Indians living below the poverty line, the ones sleep on the street, don't have sewer system at their homes, can't afford to go to school etc. I have talked to some educated young Indians who actually believe that there are more middle class happy Indians than poor ones, and India's future is bright and trouble free. Some of them even despise and embarrassed of the poors.

You have talked to "some", "educated" Indians. Based on that you draw conclusions about what that "most" middle class Indians "think".

Most Indians do believe that India has a better future. But I have yet to see any Indian who says that India's future is trouble free.

I guess your small Indian circle and my big Indian circle are far removed from each other.

Go do some volunteer work if you are really concerned about the future of India.

And what gives you the idea that I don't? I think I have spent quite a bit of my time in volunteering work. It's my country and it's my duty.

BTW Who are you to say what I need to do?

That gives the impression that you are talking from a position of "superiority" (using your own word).

I am very disappointed with educated middle class Indians.

Obviously you don't know many educated middle class Indians. Maybe you should be mixing with the right types. Go to the schools, colleges, institutes and see if "educated" middle class Indians are the caricatures you make them out to be.

Triumph Speed3

September 13th, 2004, 10:20 PM

Wow, you being offensive there,

I usually avoid saying anything bad about any place that's not my country on this forum. If it's not my country I will generally not say anything that's uncharitable.

Then I don't believe you. You can send me a mail if you are so righteous. But according to my experiences and other resources, India has the largest number of poor people and slums in the world.

What's hard to believe in that? You pre-judge people. A lot of Indians have humble and poor backgrounds and they do manage to do well through hard work and studies. Even the President of India and Prime Minister of India are from humble backgrounds.

It shows your superficial knowldege of India.

so what you are saying is that your president and prime minister grew up in slums? And you used to live in the biggest slums in India and somehow managed to succeed, and now you are now successful and an avid world traveller. Why do I have such a hard time believing it? I didn't know Indian caste system was so generous to Dalits and other unprivileged ones. Maybe I am wrong because of my superficial knowldege of India.

Middle class existed in 50s and 60s but the numbers were small.

So the growth of the middle class has been impressive.

On the other hand the percentage of poor has also gone down a lot from over 75% to 26%. That's not a mean achievement.

Maybe I am wrong with my statistics,
it was from a book I have.
but according to
http://www.indiaonestop.com/povertyindia.htm
my statistic is not too far off,
an estimated 350-400 million are below the poverty line, 75 per cent of them in the rural areas.
that is about 35 miillion(35% of the population)+100's of millions of lower class people(ones live in chawls etc).
(BTW I don't fully believe what it says on indiaonestop.com.)

You really have got some cliched ideas about India and Indians.

Well, maybe I do, but it is from someone who actually visited there a couple of times extensively and been to most cities in India. My opinions are from actual visits there, not from newpapers, movies or books. I am entitled to make opinions about India, right?
And maybe my opinion might be even more accurate than what you Indians think. Sometimes your judgements can be blurred when you actually live in it, and outsider's viewpoints can be more accurate.
As a film maker, I know for fact my opinions on my own films are not always the same as critics or audiences think, and who is correct? Always the critics and viewers.

think I have spent quite a bit of my time in volunteering work. It's my country and it's my duty.

I am glad that you do volunteering works. I have a couple of westerner friends who lived in India(Dharamsala and Kolkata) to volunteer, and I've got an impression that most middle/upper class Indians are ignorant about volunteering works and poverty issues from what they said.

That gives the impression that you are talking from a position of "superiority" (using your own word).
Obviously you don't know many educated middle class Indians.

no, I am not talking from a postion of "superiority", you are getting that impression because of your insecurity. Maybe I don't know many educated middle class Indians, but when I did a TV report on Hijras, I met alot of alot of people in Scheduled Castes. I was very impressed by the lower class and spiritual Indians. I am not so impressed with hundreds of upper/middle class people,especially yuppie wannabes I met in India.

What makes India amazing is NOT modernity and westernization in India.

Stop being embarrassed of slums in Mumbai that every foreign tourists are going see when they fly into the airport.
Stop being infatuated with new shopping malls and apartment buildings in Mumbai that only .000001% of Indians are going to use. You think westerners are going to be impressed with Indian shopping malls or skyscrapers?(well, more like what skyscrapers?)
Worry about hundreds of millions of Indians starving and dying on the streets, and not getting any education.
Worry about child labour and child prostitution issues in India.

Suncity

September 13th, 2004, 11:58 PM

Wow, you being offensive there

I don't think I am the one being offensive here. Sorry, if you think I am.

Then I don't believe you. You can send me a mail if you are that righteous.

Why on the earth should I send you mail? I have never asked you to believe me. Check my postings and you can judge for yourself.

The reason I generally try to avoid saying strange things about another country is not because I am a saint or something. It is because saying something based on superficial knowledge creates misunderstandings and long threads...(One example is this thread...another was the thread on dirtiest cities...there are plenty of such examples on this forum).

so what you are saying is that your president and prime minister are from slums?

I said they are from very "humble" backgrounds. You find hard to believe that? I am sure there must be some stuff on the net about them. And yes many of our political leaders and respected people have risen from slums / poverty.

And you used to live in the biggest slums in India and somehow managed to succeed, and now you are now successful and an avid world traveller.

Well it's upto you to believe it or not. I "succeeded" (if you can say that) because of my parents and teachers' efforts.

I have said I have visited many countries. I never said I am an "avid" traveller. I don't have too much money and run on a budget.

:-)

I am a bit amazed that you find that hard to believe!

Why do I have such a hard time believing it? I didn't know caste system was so generous to Dalits and other unprivileged ones. Maybe I am wrong because of my superficial knowldege of India.

I doubt you know much about the caste system. I have lived it. You have seen it from outside or read about it. The caste system has turned out to be a social evil. We have come a long way in 50 years trying to discard a thousand year old system which is filled with injustice. Could it and should it have been faster? Absolutely. Is there a long way to go? Yes. But is their hope? Of course.

Is there is life beyond the caste system. Dalits and lower caste people are the majority and as they gain more political and social power, things will improve for all of us.

Maybe I am wrong with my statistics,it was from a book I have.
but according to
http://www.indiaonestop.com/povertyindia.htm
my statistic is not too far off,
an estimated 350-400 million are below the poverty line, 75 per cent of them in the rural areas.
that is about 35 miillion(35% of the population)+100's of millions of lower class people.
BTW I don't fully believe what it says on indiaonestop.com.

I am really puzzled with your math.

Whether its 300 million or 500 million poor, both numbers are large. It is also true that poverty rates have come down by large numbers. Just because we have 300 million poor doesn't mean we ignore the remaining 700 million Indians and say that it's only the 300 million poor who represent the real India.

Well, maybe I do, but it is from someone who actually visited there a couple of times extensively and been to most cities in India. Myopinions are from actual visits there, not from facts, newpapers, movies or books. I am ntitled to make opinions about India, culture, lower class India and upper class India, right?

You are entitled to your opinion of course as I am to mine. But generalizing Indians (or any nationality) is incorrect.

And maybe my opinions might be even more accurate than what you locals think. Sometimes your judgements can be blurred when you actually live in it, and outsider's viewpoints can be more accurate.

Although I disagree with some of your opinion, I agree with your point. Outsiders often have a better insight. But they also risk the problem of seeing another culture through a narrow pre-defined prism (example Lonely Planet).

As a film maker, I know for fact that my opinions on what I make is not always the same as critics or audiences think, and who is correct? Always the critics and viewers.

In that case you are the film maker and I am the viewer.

:-)

I am glad that you do volunteering works. I have a couple of westerner friends who lived in India(Dharamsala and Kolkata) to volunteer, and I've got an impression that most middle/upper class Indians are ignorant about volunteering works and poverty issues from what they said.

I have heard that complaint before. You have to realize that India is a huge country and the majority of volunteers are Indians and not westerners.

There are hundreds of Indian volunteer associations doing excellent work. They don't get publicity because they are doing things for their own country. What's the big deal in that?

It's my belief (and I may be wrong) - one of the main reasons is that most Indians volunteer in Hindu, Muslim or secular organizations. Most westerners volunteer in Christian or western funded NGOs. Thus their paths hardly cross.

Also there are plenty of selfish and snobbish Indians. That doesn't mean that the entire middle or upper class is like that.

no, I am not talking from a postion of "superiority", you are getting that impression because of your insecurity. Maybe I don't know many educated middle class Indians, but when I did a TV report on Hijras, I met alot of alot of people in Scheduled Castes. I got impressed by the lower class and spiritual Indians, but not so impressed with upper/middle class people, especially yuppie wannabes.

I don't have any insecurities regarding this forum discussion. But I can make out when someone sounds "superior".

You cannot judge a whole middle class based on some yuppie wannabes.

What makes India amazing is NOT modernity and westernization in India.

India is amazing because of itself. And there is nothing wrong in trying to adapt the good points of modern western civilization.

Stop being embarrassed of slums in Mumbai that every foreign tourists are going see when they fly into the airport.

It's not an embarrasment because foreign tourists see it. If that were the reason then those slums would have been cleared out. The general consensus is that there is no justification in clearing slums for beautification purposes. The slums are a reality and what bothers most Indians is that all of the projects of rehabilitation and improvement get bogged down in lengthy debates and court cases. There is no reason why the slums cannot be improved. That's the issue here.

Stop being infatuated with new shopping malls and apartment buildings in Mumbai that only .000001% of Indians are going to use.

Well we have not seen such malls in India, before and thus many of us are currently infatuated with them. When they spread to every city and town it will be time to move on to something else.

And if just .000001% Indians went to malls, then they wouldn't be opening them in dozens. The malls and hypermarts are part of a more orgainized retailing structure that's happening now in India. It's bound to create more jobs that go back to the villages too (from where our food comes).

As far as apartment buildings are concerned, there are thousands of them coming up in every city. Most of the apartments are built not as status symbols but because there is a need for them.

You think westerners are going to be impressed with Indian shopping malls or skyscrapers?(well, more like what skyscrapers?)

The malls and the high rise buildings are being built for Indians. So don't see why westerners need to be impressed. Have you seen any Indian tourist brochure highlighting malls and highrise buildings?

We want westerners to enjoy the Taj Mahal, Hawa Mahal, Victorial Memorial and also like us as a country and a people.

Worry about hundreds of millions of Indians starving and dying on the streets, and not getting any education. Worry about child labour and child prostitution issues in India.

I see that "superior" tone again?

The issues you raise are valid points and they are discussed threadbare in hundreds of Indian forums. (Most of us Indians are a highly politicized lot, know our rights and most of us will call a spade a spade!).

So what do you suggest? Should we Indians stop posting about highrise buildings and skylines of India in www.skyscrapercity.com because a large section of Indians are poor, don't have access to education, live on footpaths, have poor hygiene etc...? Should we only worry and start posting details of caste system, Dalits, child labour and child prostitution in a skyscraper /skyline forum? I doubt any forumer on this forum would be interested in discussing those issues. They are here to see buildings and skylines.

JuanPaulo

September 14th, 2004, 12:12 AM

Some more pics of slums I found on the net. I do not know the current conditions of these places...they might no exist at all today so if anybody knows, please update us.

Nairobi, Kenya
http://img78.exs.cx/img78/3062/slum1.jpg

Rio de Janeiro, Brazil
http://img78.exs.cx/img78/9726/slum2.jpg\

Manaus, Brazil
http://img78.exs.cx/img78/9197/slum13.jpg

Manila, Philippines
http://img78.exs.cx/img78/4721/slum3.jpg

Dhaka, Bangladesh
http://img78.exs.cx/img78/5595/slum5.jpg

http://img78.exs.cx/img78/361/slum11.jpg

Bombay, India (January 2003)
http://img78.exs.cx/img78/29/slum9.jpg

http://img78.exs.cx/img78/9872/slum8.jpg

Hong Kong, China
http://img78.exs.cx/img78/4880/slum7.jpg

Montego Bay, Jamaica
http://img78.exs.cx/img78/8619/slum10.jpg

Colombo, Sri Lanka
http://img78.exs.cx/img78/5095/slum12.jpg

Luxor, Egypt
http://img78.exs.cx/img78/9500/slum14.jpg

Suncity

September 14th, 2004, 12:24 AM

More about slums...

Every third person will be a slum dweller within 30 years, UN agency warns

Biggest study of world's cities finds 940 million already living in squalor

John Vidal
Saturday October 4, 2003
The Guardian

One in every three people in the world will live in slums within 30 years unless governments control unprecedented urban growth, according to a UN report. The largest study ever made of global urban conditions has found that 940 million people - almost one-sixth of the world's population - already live in squalid, unhealthy areas, mostly without water, sanitation, public services or legal security.
The report, from the UN human settlements programme, UN-habitat, based in Nairobi, found that urban slums were growing faster than expected, and that the balance of global poverty was shifting rapidly from the countryside to cities.

Africa now has 20% of the world's slum dwellers and Latin America 14%, but the worst urban conditions are in Asia, where more than 550 million people live in what the UN calls unacceptable conditions.

The world's 30 richest countries are home to just 2% of slum dwellers; in contrast, 80% of the urban population of the world's 30 least developed countries live in slums. Although the report emphasised that not all slum dwellers are poor, the UN warned that unplanned, unsanitary settlements threaten political stability and are creating the climate for an explosion of social problems.

Evils

"There is a vacuum developing, because local authorities have no access to the many slums," said Anna Tibaijuka, the director of UN-habitat.

"Extreme inequality and idleness lead people to anti-social behaviour. Slums are the places where all the evils come together, where peace and security is elusive and where young people cannot be protected."

Ms Tibaijuka called on governments to urgently address a deteriorating situation which potentially threatened security and would increase pressures on immigration to rich countries. The report found that some slums were now as large as cities. The Kibera district in Nairobi, classed as the largest slum in the world, has as many as 600,000 people. The Dharavi area of Mumbai and the Orangi district of Karachi have only slightly fewer people, while the Ashaiman slum is now larger than the city of Tema in Ghana, around which it grew.
Other cities, such as Dhaka in Bangladesh, have several hundred small slums or squatter settlements, which have no access to services and are liable to be moved on at short notice. "The world is entering a significant stage," say the report's authors. "Over the next 30 years, the urban population in the developing world will double to about 4 billion people, at the rate of about 70 million a year. Rural populations will barely increase and begin to decline after 2020."

The authors also predicted that threequarters of the world's anticipated population growth would take place in relatively small cities with populations of between 1 million and 5million. The report found that the world's urban population had increased by 36% in the 1990s, and that city authorities had been unable or unwilling to keep up.

"Slums are the product of failed policies, bad governance, corruption and a lack of political will," the report says. "Very few countries have recognised this critical situation and very little effort is going into providing jobs or services."

But the authors roundly blamed laissez-faire globalisation and "neo-liberal" economic policies imposed on poor countries by global institutions such as the International Monetary Fund and the World Trade Organisation for much of the damage caused to cities over the past 20 years.

The authors say people are encouraged to move to the cities by factors including the privatisation of public services, job losses, and the removal of subsidies and tax breaks from key industries. Such effects, they say, increase inequality, and make sure that those who move to the cities remain in deep poverty.

"One of the few direct benefits that slum dwellers have gained from globalisation is greater access to aid agencies," the report says.

"But the very limited advantages are outweighed by a truly formidable array of disadvantages - so many, in fact, that some governments might be excused for not wishing to take part at all in globalisation if they have the welfare of the urban poor at heart."

"In a form of colonialisation that is probably more stringent than the original, many developing countries have become... suppliers of raw commodities to the world, and fall further and further behind."

The authors conclude that as "cities have become a dumping ground for people working in unskilled, unprotected and low-wage industries and trades... the slums of the developing world swell".

Centres of decay and deprivation

· Phnom Penh, Cambodia Up to 230,000 people live in dilapidated buildings which are often flooded. Squatter settlements have grown beside railway tracks, canals and reservoirs

· Nairobi, Kenya Some 600,000 people live in Kibera, the world's largest slum, where there is little running water, poor sanitary facilities and frequent outbreaks of violence

· Rio de Janeiro, Brazil Favelas started appearing in the 1950s, and there are now about 700, housing a total of about 1 million people. Many have been upgraded

· Colombo, Sri Lanka Thousands live in deteriorating tenement blocks or derelict houses on high land in the old city centre

· Cairo, Egypt Slum areas have developed on desert land owned by the state. Some began as relocation sites for rubbish collectors and the army

· Mumbai, India Tens of thousands live in decaying slums known as chawls. These were built by factory owners and sometimes collapse in the monsoons

Chawl development in Mumbai:

The build-up to a new Mumbai
By: Gigil Varghese
August 27, 2004

http://www.mid-day.com/news/city/2004/august/90972.htm

Every month, MHADA and BMC have been approving 30 buildings in south Mumbai, which can be redeveloped by private builders. So far a whopping 19,462 low-rise buildings, mostly chawls, have been identified for the construction projects.

South Mumbai’s skyline is set for a drastic makeover. Skyscrapers of 20 floors and more will soon be replacing low-rise chawls, synonymous with the city.

The Maharashtra Housing and Area Development Authority (MHADA) and the Brihanmumbai Municipal Corporation (BMC) have recently identified 19,462 buildings in the city that can be redeveloped by private builders.

According to redevelopment rules, builders can build 50 per cent more flats in the new projects and sell them at market rates. Since property rates in South Mumbai range between Rs 5,200 and Rs 10,500 per square feet, builders can make a killing on the sale of extra flats.

Builders are reportedly making a beeline for the projects. According to government sources, MHADA and BMC are reported to be issuing 30 approvals every month for such projects.
Areas that are being dotted with buildings with over 20 storeys are Girgaum, Gamdevi, Prabhadevi and Khetwadi. The old tenants are being accommodated around the property according to the area they previously lived in.

“Although there was a demand for flats in south Mumbai, supply was dead. Now, residents in suburbs who can afford to, can buy a flat in these new buildings,” said Sunil Mantri, secretary of the Maharashtra Chamber of Housing and Infrastructure (MCHI).

A property developer, Harish Mehta, who is developing 11 properties in south Mumbai said that the pace at which the redevelopment is happening will stabilise the price of property in south Mumbai.

Though the redevelopment will bring in wider roads near the buildings, the redevelopment scheme has not been able to address water and other infrastructure-related problems for the residents.
The highs...

* Every flat will measure between 1,200-1,500 sq feet
* Multi-storeyed parking facility
* Wider roads near the buildings
* Health clubs
* Conference rooms
* Landscaped gardens
* High speed and more service lifts

... and the lows

* Water supply has not increased in proportion to the number of flats
* Old municipal sewage pipes have not been replaced
* The widening of roads has been uneven. While redeveloped buildings have left space for widening of roads, undeveloped properties next door mean that the roads do not have a consistent width
* Maintenance charges in the new buildings will be hefty

There are pros and cons to shifting from this place. We are happy to shift to the new tower because the old house did not have a lift and other amenities. But the maintainence charges are also going to be more.
— Saraswatichand Ratanchand Javeri (72)
Resident of the 100-year-old Kothari Mansion, Girgaum

The old chawl did not have enough light. We had to use fluorescent lights during the day too. Here, we have enough air and sunlight.
— Gita Vasudev Nimlekar (58)
Resident of a high-rise near Shiv Tapi, Gamdevi

“I like to sit near the window in the evening and look at the sea at Marine Drive. I am happy to shift here as the bungalow was for one family. As the size of the family increased we had to make alterations.
— Nandini Shah (65)
Resident of a 100-year-old bungalow, Mani Jugal, now replaced by a high-rise, Saarthi, Chowpatty

Triumph Speed3

September 14th, 2004, 12:28 AM

JuanPaulo

September 14th, 2004, 12:50 AM

Yes, I saw dead bodies in Paraganj and other places in India

You mean you saw dead bodies laying on the road or in the slums or something??? I might have miss your first posts but I don't understand this?

Suncity

September 14th, 2004, 02:03 AM

Suncity,

No offense,
but I never meant to sound superior,
I feel more kinship toward what I call REAL Indians,
and I have huge respect for your culture and religion.

What I said so far are very true to my opinions,
As I said before I have been to many countries,
from Cambodia to Tanzania,
and
Yes, I saw dead bodies in Paraganj and other places in India, I saw people taking sh*t and piss on the street everywhere in India, the summer in Delhi is hellish, almost everyone gets sick from food in India, India is the least hygienic nation I have been to, one of the worst airports in the world, the worst road(Grand Trunk Road) etc.
everything I have said are true.
That does not mean I dislike India,

What supprises me the most is the you and other Indian posters' values are very westernized. What I mentioned above are mere truth, but nothing to be ashamed of.

I take your opinions and experiences of India at face value.

The only thing that I object to is what you are trying imply (maybe without knowing it).

You are saying that the "real India" is what you think and what you saw and the "unreal India" is what we portray. You believe that only some people who fit your pre defined standards are "real Indians". The rest like us who don't fit the bill are "westernized" etc. You saw dead bodies in Paharganj so that has to be the real India. I didn't see any then I must be talking of the unreal India.

You also make it sound like Indians are "ashamed" of their problems because what others may think. The truth is most Indians are worried about their problems and are seeking solutions for their own good. They are ashamed because they have not been able to do better. They are not ashamed because someone saw them having unhygenic conditions. After all they will be the ones living their lives. Someone else is not going to live it for them.

You may like India and you may like India's religions and cultures but the net result of your comments is that they end up generalizing and caricaturing India.

You use the term "westernized" as if it is some kind of imposition on Indians. In that sense I doubt I am "westernized". If I were "westernized" in that sense then I would be agreeing with you instead of disagreeing.

I apologise if I have offended you or hurt your sensitivities.