Hey Seemacau! Do you think the 5 billion Chinese development project in Koh Kong deserve it's own thread! It will include 7 new cities, an airport, a port,golf courses, retail stores, and many other things! It will be on 36,000 hectares of land or more! It will take 25 years to complete!

Hey Seemacau! Do you think the 5 billion Chinese development project in Koh Kong deserve it's own thread! It will include 7 new cities, an airport, a port,golf courses, retail stores, and many other things! It will be on 36,000 hectares of land or more!

I am sure it should deserve its own thread, once we get a bit more details.

I am sure it should deserve its own thread, once we get a bit more details.

^^ They are already clearing the trees and land but I don't know if they built anything yet! Construction started in September last year!

I am sure it should deserve its own thread, once we get a bit more details.

Yes, important projects like this should deserves its own thread, even through it is not involved with any skyscrapers.

I'll open up a thread for this project :cheers:

Ummmmmmmmm.. Seemacau! I think you got confuse lolz! Koh Rong is an Island and Koh Kong is a Province lolz! Koh Rong is only 15 minutes away from Koh Kong! There is also an Island called Koh Kong and a town call Krong Koh Kong in Koh Kong lolz!

36,000 hectares is about 120 square miles or more I believe!

Source please, some mods are getting tired of saying this

Ummmmmmmmm.. Seemacau! I think you got confuse lolz! Koh Rong is an Island and Koh Kong is a Province lolz! Koh Rong is only 15 minutes away from Koh Kong! There is also an Island called Koh Kong and a town call Krong Koh Kong in Koh Kong lolz!

You Cambodian is giving translator such a hard time. :bash:

Is there any specific meaning in all those name you mentioned.

Can you please post the source of the article next time: link of the article / authors

Thanks

Chinese Koh Kong development under construction

US$5 billion Chinese tourism development project in Koh Kong is under construction as of last month. The Chinese Union Development Group Co is currently constructing a port and roads, as well as preparing the infrastructure to build a residential and an office building in Kiri Sakr district.

The project covers 36,000 hectares of land in Botum Sakor and Kiri Sakor districts, and will consist of five developments, including: airport, a port, golf course, an eco-tourism site and a large commercial area with residential living, hotels, restaurants and retail stores.

The development is expected to provide more jobs for locals as well as boosting the provincial economy.

The development has affected seven villages with 600 families. Although the company is close to resolving compensation disputes, there are still over 20 families who are asking for higher compensation costs based on market prices. The dispute will soon to be resolved according to Lao Tip Seiha, a director at the Ministry of Land Management.

The development is expected to be completed in less than 25 years.

I can't wait until this project finish!

this project name is called 7-dragon city!

7 dragons city???....any picture guys???

7 dragons city???....any picture guys???

^^ no pictures yet but i got info this from cebre cambodia!

http://www.cbre.com.kh/2011/12/koh-sdech-island/

Koh Sdach (King’s Island) in Cambodia is opposite the new ‘7 Dragon’ Chinese City which is currently under construction. The new city will have an estimated population of 2 million people. 13 hectares of prime development land is for sale on Koh Sdach, ideal for residential or holiday Apartments; Casinos, Hotels and Holiday Resorts. Sea view’s of the new Chinese city are available plus a magnificent and unique resort site with palm trees and two private beach’s covering 13 hectares and facing west towards the sunset. There is services on King’s Island as well as water, power supply and telephone. The island is just one and a half hours by boat from Sihanoukville.

^^ 2 million people????? where those big amount of people from?

I must say this is the most expensive project and the most poor thread I have ever read. $5 billion project? No detail, no design, no date and nothing. We should delete this thread or Just keep talking

^^ 2 million people????? where those big amount of people from?

^^ it's a chinese city! strictly for chinese! like they used chinese currency, speak chinese, and have their own chinese government controlling the city!

I must say this is the most expensive project and the most poor thread I have ever read. $5 billion project? No detail, no design, no date and nothing. We should delete this thread or Just keep talking

^ i have pictures of it! but it's not mine! it's from a australian guy! he told me not to post it or use it because he took it without permission from the chinese guards!

i can only say it have lot's of hotels, casinos, residential units, and golf course! they have high rise condos! but that's just a section of the city! this city is HUGE!

Chinese city on Khmer Island? Speak Chinese ? Hmmm it is going to be disastrous

^ i have pictures of it! but it's not mine! it's from a australian guy! he told me not to post it or use it because he took it without permission from the chinese guards!

Can you see from google earth? How frequent is google earth update?

Chinese city on Khmer Island? Speak Chinese ? Hmmm it is going to be disastrous

^^ if they have money and they want to build their city why not! let them do whatever they want! they are leasing the land for 99 years so they can do whatever they want!

Can you see from google earth? How frequent is google earth update?

^^ if you go on google earth you can see they already cleared a vast jungle of trees on the coast!

seemacau can u change this thread name to 7 dragon city koh kong! this about 100 kilometers of beach front development!

i hope when this complete they will attract more chinese tourist to cambodia! we need at least a few million chinese tourist or 5 million would be good!

What a stupid thing to do to allow developments in National Parks. Who knows if these companies don't make money by cutting down and sell the trees. What is the point of making national parks protected areas. What a stupid policy. It is a good thing for the governor and his clowns and bad thing for the poor living there.

What a stupid thing to do to allow developments in National Parks. Who knows if these companies don't make money by cutting down and sell the trees. What is the point of making national parks protected areas. What a stupid policy. It is a good thing for the governor and his clowns and bad thing for the poor living there.

Yes just developing a city... Why they need to do it at the national park like this.... :ohno:

Or once they cut some of the tree then the project will be scale down again in the end...
5 billions.... 3.5 billions.... 2 billions....1 billion.... 500 millions... No more trees to cut...bye bye... Less the project only name and dusty land.:nuts:

From now on I don't trust any investor if their investment project have not completed yet.
Most of them seem like Cambodia is a easy making money country.. Moneys laundry.. Or a country which free flour to make a cake..

relax guys!!! With Chinese investor, there's nothing to worry about! They will complete their project in no time. :rock::rock::rock:

From now on I don't trust any investor if their investment project have not completed yet.
Most of them seem like Cambodia is a easy making money country.. Moneys laundry.. Or a country which free flour to make a cake..
feel unreliable anymore :lol::lol: so far we see many great project rank from 2 or 3 billion dollar but i don't see those great project coming up. who know? after they cut the tree for the construction site and then they say they gonna bankrupt so where will those cut-wood go?? :nuts:

this is one of the projects im against

it is a $5 billion worth project equivalance to US$5 billion worth in damage and destruction

Is this their website ? Can someone read Chinese?

http://www.udcgroup.com/Index.aspx

Here the video (You need to download)

http://english.ntdtv.com/ntdtv_en/asiabrief/2012-03-07/chinese-company-displaces-locals-to-build-casino-in-cambodia.html

I'm against this project....this project is similar to Prey long!!



"Member of the Prey Lang Network said yesterday that Ouch Sam On, the deputy governor of Kampong Thom province, had told them he would not be responsible if they were shot while protecting Prey Lang forest" :ohno::ohno::nuts::nuts::nuts::bash::bash::bash::bash:

"សមាជិកបណ្តាញព្រៃឡង់ បានឲ្យដឹងពីម្សិលមិញថា លោកអ៊ុច សំអន អភិបាលរងខេត្តកំពង់ធំ បានគំរាមពួកគាត់ថា អាជ្ញាធរមិនទទួលខុសត្រូវឡើយ ប្រសិនបើអ្នកភូមិត្រូវគេលួចបាញ់ប្រហារពេលចូលរួមការពារតំបន់ ព្រៃឡង់ " Phnom Penh Post

Just relax guys! Let's wait and see! Chinese company are known to finish their projects on time not like others.

Just relax guys! Let's wait and see! Chinese company are known to finish their projects on time not like others.

Government's? yes, but private? Probably not. Example is Boeung Kok in PP.

Government's? yes, but private? Probably not. Example is Boeung Kok in PP.

^^ let's just wait and see! Chinese are number in finishing their project and fast too!!! :cheers::cheers:

^^ let's just wait and see! Chinese are number in finishing their project and fast too!!! :cheers::cheers:

Of course, cutting down the trees is fast. We'll wait and see after the trees are all gone. I hope they are building what they are claiming that they are doing, not a few buildings in the middle of empty land without trees. The road leading to the project site is restricted. So, no one from outside, except those involved, know what is going on.

Of course, cutting down the trees is fast. We'll wait and see after the trees are all gone. I hope they are building what they are claiming that they are doing, not a few buildings in the middle of empty land without trees. The road leading to the project site is restricted. So, no one from outside, except those involved, know what is going on.

^^They have to clear the trees in order to build you know! How else can they build? Chinese are good at finishing their projects!

^^They have to clear the trees in order to build you know! How else can they build? Chinese are good at finishing their projects!

yes, you are right. Then, they could sell those timbers and make $1 and spend 50cents on the building, 25cents on the corrupted officials, and keep the rest for themselves. Maybe, they would even clear the trees and grow something else that they can make more money because the access to that place is blocked. Who knows if one day drugs in America would have been from that place in Cambodia. Some already have happened. I saw on TV the other day. I hope I am wrong here, but we'll wait and see. My point is they should make it more transparent to everyone on what really they're doing there. For the Holy Cow sake, this is a protected National Park! What are these policy makers thinking? Why would they call it a national park if they allow cutting the trees? Stupid policy. Money corrupt those great minds, indeed. It is shameful that these people call themselves Buddhists.

what i think the company would do is cut all the trees, sell it and stop developing half way because it runs out of money, what do you guys think???

yes, you are right. Then, they could sell those timbers and make $1 and spend 50cents on the building, 25cents on the corrupted officials, and keep the rest for themselves. Maybe, they would even clear the trees and grow something else that they can make more money because the access to that place is blocked. Who knows if one day drugs in America would have been from that place in Cambodia. Some already have happened. I saw on TV the other day. I hope I am wrong here, but we'll wait and see. My point is they should make it more transparent to everyone on what really they're doing there. For the Holy Cow sake, this is a protected National Park! What are these policy makers thinking? Why would they call it a national park if they allow cutting the trees? Stupid policy. Money corrupt those great minds, indeed. It is shameful that these people call themselves Buddhists.



I suggest you refrain from laying the blame based speculation and/or your hatred of the government.

yes, you are right. Then, they could sell those timbers and make $1 and spend 50cents on the building, 25cents on the corrupted officials, and keep the rest for themselves. Maybe, they would even clear the trees and grow something else that they can make more money because the access to that place is blocked. Who knows if one day drugs in America would have been from that place in Cambodia. Some already have happened. I saw on TV the other day. I hope I am wrong here, but we'll wait and see. My point is they should make it more transparent to everyone on what really they're doing there. For the Holy Cow sake, this is a protected National Park! What are these policy makers thinking? Why would they call it a national park if they allow cutting the trees? Stupid policy. Money corrupt those great minds, indeed. It is shameful that these people call themselves Buddhists.

^^ well you have to make profit somehow. What are you going to do with the trees? throw it away and not make any use of it? They are investing money in the project so they have benefit something.

^^ well you have to make profit somehow. What are you going to do with the trees? throw it away and not make any use of it? They are investing money in the project so they have benefit something.


So, you mean that the company is making profit on the trees that they cut down? Is that the purpose? Cutting down the trees and sell them making profit and get out off there? That is even worst or it is a liar or speculation. That is why the site is so restricted to public. Don't tell later they may build a Chinese secret army base there ( I hope not ).

I suggest you refrain from laying the blame based speculation and/or your hatred of the government.


It is free speech. Isn't that what democracy is all about? How do you know that the government does not tell you what it does not want you to hear? I suggest you refrain from blindly accepting everything without thought from what your government wants you to know. I know that you are smarter than those in the government.

Let me ask you. Is it right that the government in good faith trying to protect national parks, but then allow people to cut down trees in the parks in the name of making rich people happy? It is not speculation. Even it is real, I still don't support it. I'll still blame the government because it is the wrong thing to do.

By the way, I do not hate the government, but critical of it. Some projects I support and I give government credits for that, but not those in national parks, where the government call protected areas. As long as the government keeps making these "not-needed" projects in national parks, I keep criticize its policy.

Lastly, how do you know what I have said is not half true? Are you working for the government in the project? I don't understand why people, like you, think that if someone is highly critical of some policies of the government, then he/she government's hater? No government is perfect, but good government accepts criticism of all kinds.

what i think the company would do is cut all the trees, sell it and stop developing half way because it runs out of money, what do you guys think???

Like I have already said, this project is not for the best of the people live there, but for a bunch of rich people living somewhere else. It is completely wrong to build anything at this side in a protected areas like National Parks. it is stupid. I am strongly against it. If they want to develop Koh Kong, develop the city itself first.

Like I have already said, this project is not for the best of the people live there, but for a bunch of rich people living somewhere else. It is completely wrong to build anything at this side in a protected areas like National Parks. it is stupid. I am strongly against it. If they want to develop Koh Kong, develop the city itself first.

^^ Why would they build this project for poor people to live in? They have to make money somehow. Those poor people if they want to live in there they have to work hard and find a job. This development will bring jobs to them but not all of them.

So, you mean that the company is making profit on the trees that they cut down? Is that the purpose? Cutting down the trees and sell them making profit and get out off there? That is even worst or it is a liar or speculation. That is why the site is so restricted to public. Don't tell later they may build a Chinese secret army base there ( I hope not ).

I mean they have to clear the trees to make way for development. So those trees that are being removed are being sold to make profit. what's wrong with that? nothing! those are already cut down what's the whole point of saving the trees that are cut down? How do you know they are just cutting down trees and not developing it?

I mean they have to clear the trees to make way for development. So those trees that are being removed are being sold to make profit. what's wrong with that? nothing! those are already cut down what's the whole point of saving the trees that are cut down? How do you know they are just cutting down trees and not developing it?

How do you know that they do development there alone? We are at 50-50 right. In your argument you implying that the company does not put $1b in the project because the trees that they cut down will bring them profit already.

My point is the development in protected national park is wrong.

How do you know that they do development there alone? We are at 50-50 right. In your argument you implying that the company does not put $1b in the project because the trees that they cut down will bring them profit already.

My point is the development in protected national park is wrong.

dude this article is just bias towards China from the west. Do you know how much the West cut down trees from their homeland and other people's countries?? At least China is going to develop this.

I can write an article like this too to show my bias towards the West. I love this country but sometimes it's too too negative towards countries like China.

It was once an unspoilt tropical island paradise, but today Diego Garcia is a barren wasteland and home to one of the largest US military bases in the world… After kicking the native inhabitants off the island, tricking them into moving to another island temporarily, they were never allowed to return to their home!
Now suicide rates among Diego Garcians has gone through the roof as the live out their miserable existance on a nearby Island in absolute poverty and squallor…
There are at least 100 stories about America doing this to people around the world that I could pull out at the drop of a hat

^^ Why would they build this project for poor people to live in? They have to make money somehow. Those poor people if they want to live in there they have to work hard and find a job. This development will bring jobs to them but not all of them.

That is the problem. Those poor people have lived there for generation. They had the job and have worked hard to live their lives without harming the environment around them. But, now they have to pay high price to live there or somewhere else with higher living standard that they could not possibly afford.

How do you know that the development will bring job to them, but to the Chinese nationals instead? Did you not say before that half a million Chinese will come and live there?

My point is this project is not needed. It is in the protect area called national park. Do you understand what protected area is?

I don't mind the government builds dams, roads, and bridges using the money loaned from China. But, a city for mostly chinese nationals and rich people in protected national parks? I am totally against it, and I'll keep talking about it. It doesn't matter if they are building something there or not.

dude this article is just bias towards China from the west. Do you know how much the West cut down trees from their homeland and other people's countries?? At least China is going to develop this.

Bias or not is not my point. My point is development in a protected national parks in totally the wrong thing to do for Cambodia. Of course, I do know they cut down trees. Do you want the same thing happens to Cambodian people? I don't.

I can write an article like this too to show my bias towards the West. I love this country but sometimes it's too too negative towards countries like China.

Sure, you can. I never said you can't. It is normal to love a country, but not the policy of the country.

It was once an unspoilt tropical island paradise, but today Diego Garcia is a barren wasteland and home to one of the largest US military bases in the world… After kicking the native inhabitants off the island, tricking them into moving to another island temporarily, they were never allowed to return to their home!

This is it. I don't want to see this happens to the people living in the area in Koh Kong. Do you think the US cares about those natives? No. The same for China. Do you think the Chinese care Cambodians? Of course not. If the Chinese once supported the red communist Khmer taking power and overseeing many Cambodians died, they would not care about Cambodians at all. Chinese or any other country policy toward Cambodia changes like a wind.

Now suicide rates among Diego Garcians has gone through the roof as the live out their miserable existance on a nearby Island in absolute poverty and squallor…

Do you want that to happen in Cambodia too? I don't. I'm afraid that these things can happen to the people live there as well.

There are at least 100 stories about America doing this to people around the world that I could pull out at the drop of a hat

If you can do that, you should know it can happen the same thing in Cambodia with this project. Superpowers are the same these days. America or China, it is the same. All they care is their interests.

That is the problem. Those poor people have lived there for generation. They had the job and have worked hard to live their lives without harming the environment around them. But, now they have to pay high price to live there or somewhere else with higher living standard that they could not possibly afford.

How do you know that the development will bring job to them, but to the Chinese nationals instead? Did you not say before that half a million Chinese will come and live there?

My point is this project is not needed. It is in the protect area called national park. Do you understand what protected area is?

I don't mind the government builds dams, roads, and bridges using the money loaned from China. But, a city for mostly chinese nationals and rich people in protected national parks? I am totally against it, and I'll keep talking about it. It doesn't matter if they are building something there or not.

What high living standard are u talking about? You mean before they have clean water, high electricity, schools, and now they have nothing since they got kicked out??? Since when did they have these high standard you are talking about? So what if Chinese come to live there. Cambodia welcomes all.

Bias or not is not my point. My point is development in a protected national parks in totally the wrong thing to do for Cambodia. Of course, I do know they cut down trees. Do you want the same thing happens to Cambodian people? I don't.



Sure, you can. I never said you can't. It is normal to love a country, but not the policy of the country.



This is it. I don't want to see this happens to the people living in the area in Koh Kong. Do you think the US cares about those natives? No. The same for China. Do you think the Chinese care Cambodians? Of course not. If the Chinese once supported the red communist Khmer taking power and overseeing many Cambodians died, they would not care about Cambodians at all. Chinese or any other country policy toward Cambodia changes like a wind.



Do you want that to happen in Cambodia too? I don't. I'm afraid that these things can happen to the people live there as well.



If you can do that, you should know it can happen the same thing in Cambodia with this project. Superpowers are the same these days. America or China, it is the same. All they care is their interests.

^^ If you care so much why can't you send a letter or go to the PM or Union Group company in cambodia and tell them to stop. There's nothing you can do or I can do about it. Development comes at a price no matter what.

What high living standard are u talking about? You mean before they have clean water, high electricity, schools, and now they have nothing since they got kicked out??? Since when did they have these high standard you are talking about? So what if Chinese come to live there. Cambodia welcomes all.

Oh dear. It seems that you don't understand what I write. Read it carefully and start again.

I did not say that they had high standard of living. I said they have live there for generation with this project. Now, they have to move and live in the area with HIGHER STANDARD OF LIVING THAT THEY COULD NOT POSSIBLY AFFORD. DO YOU UNDERSTAND?

Before they live near the water, and clean water indeed. Whether they had electricity and school or not is the government job to provide them. If they can live there for generation with electricity, they can live many more generation with it.

"So what if Chinese come to live there. Cambodia welcomes all" How do you know Cambodia welcomes them all? If the Americans and Japanese wanted to live and make China theirs, would you welcome them? Would Americans welcome all the Latinos how want to live in America?

Can you imagine when all this is finish and millions and millions of chinese come to lived here. It will bring more reputation to Koh Kong province. I support this project 1 miliion%!!!

Oh dear. It seems that you don't understand what I write. Read it carefully and start again.

I did not say that they had high standard of living. I said they have live there for generation with this project. Now, they have to move and live in the area with HIGHER STANDARD OF LIVING THAT THEY COULD NOT POSSIBLY AFFORD. DO YOU UNDERSTAND?

Before they live near the water, and clean water indeed. Whether they had electricity and school or not is the government job to provide them. If they can live there for generation with electricity, they can live many more generation with it.

"So what if Chinese come to live there. Cambodia welcomes all" How do you know Cambodia welcomes them all? If the Americans and Japanese wanted to live and make China theirs, would you welcome them? Would Americans welcome all the Latinos how want to live in America?

^^Dude just relax and watch the Chinese turn this project into a real city! Don't get too critical. Just lay back and sip on some wine, beer, and watch the grass grow. :cheers::cheers:

^^ If you care so much why can't you send a letter or go to the PM or Union Group company in cambodia and tell them to stop. There's nothing you can do or I can do about it. Development comes at a price no matter what.

Well, you have it right. All I can do is to write what I feel about it and that I am against it. You on the other hand support it, even if you have learned that similar things happens somewhere else that you don't like.

Do you think the PM will listen to anybody, but his advisors? Yes, of course, development comes with a price, but at least we do whatever we can to minimize the impact on others' lives. Protected areas need to be protected.

Can you imagine when all this is finish and millions and millions of chinese come to lived here. It will bring more reputation to Koh Kong province. I support this project 1 miliion%!!!

I can imagine that the Cambodians living there becomes second class citizens on their own land. Bring reputation to Koh Kong? Why don't they develop Koh Kong city instead? The land is big enough there that can take on any development of this size. Why does it has to be in a protected national park? It makes no sense to build a city in national park near by a undeveloped city that has already existed.

I can imagine that the Cambodians living there becomes second class citizens on their own land. Bring reputation to Koh Kong? Why don't they develop Koh Kong city instead? The land is big enough there that can take on any development of this size. Why does it has to be in a protected national park? It makes no sense to build a city in national park near by a undeveloped city that has already existed.

^^ do you want to see more evictions in the city?? There are more people there in the city. They develop this area because it's a prime beach front location. Koh kong city is located inland not next to the sea. Therefore, having access to the sea is more better since they can transport materials to build the city and who doesn't want to live next to the beach? They develop to make profit.

^^Dude just relax and watch the Chinese turn this project into a real city! Don't get too critical. Just lay back and sip on some wine, beer, and watch the grass grow. :cheers::cheers:


I am relaxed. I still think it is wrong to build a city there in the protected national while there is an undeveloped city near by. I am not like you watching people get rich on other people back. I have Teochew back ground, but I am greedy like you. I have my standard.

You make it sound like China is going to colonize this piece of land. What's the point of China taking over this land? what benefit does it bring? They just develop to help build the country. The evictions to me are the responsibility of the government and people not the Chinese people.

^^ do you want to see more evictions in the city?? There are more people there in the city. They develop this area because it's a prime beach front location. Koh kong city is located inland not next to the sea. Therefore, having access to the sea is more better since they can transport materials to build the city and who doesn't want to live next to the beach? They develop to make profit.

Oh my holly cow! Do you know where Koh Kong is? Have you been there? "Koh kong city is located inland not next to the sea?" Are you out of your mind? Google earth it and you'll see and learn more about Koh Kong. It is next to the sea just like Sihanoukville.

Anyway, the city is undeveloped. There are lots of empty lands that can handle project that is twice in size of this project. You don't have to evict people. If you need their lands, just pay for them at the market price. Go and check for yourself before making so stupid uneducated guess about the geography of Koh Kong.

You make it sound like China is going to colonize this piece of land. What's the point of China taking over this land? what benefit does it bring? They just develop to help build the country. The evictions to me are the responsibility of the government and people not the Chinese people.

Don't be so stupid. If there is no benefit, as you know as a Chinese, the Chinese will never come. If they want to help develop Cambodia, Koh Kong in particular, do it at the city of Koh Kong, not in the protected national park.

If the Chinese people pay these poor people for their lands at the market price, and they are willing to sell them, we don't need evictions. But, these Chinese are cheat too. Well, it is a business decision, I should have said.

Oh my holly cow! Do you know where Koh Kong is? Have you been there? "Koh kong city is located inland not next to the sea?" Are you out of your mind? Google earth it and you'll see and learn more about Koh Kong. It is next to the sea just like Sihanoukville.

Anyway, the city is undeveloped. There are lots of empty lands that can handle project that is twice in size of this project. You don't have to evict people. If you need their lands, just pay for them at the market price. Go and check for yourself before making so stupid uneducated guess about the geography of Koh Kong.

^^ Koh kong city is not right next to the sea!! It is not far from the sea either. Botum sakor is right next to the sea. Why wont u pay for the market price if u want to make a change. This is not the company's responsiblity. They already paid the governemnt enough money just to purchased this land. Now you want them to pay more?? Are u out of your mind.

Don't be so stupid. If there is no benefit, as you know as a Chinese, the Chinese will never come. If they want to help develop Cambodia, Koh Kong in particular, do it at the city of Koh Kong, not in the protected national park.

If the Chinese people pay these poor people for their lands at the market price, and they are willing to sell them, we don't need evictions. But, these Chinese are cheat too. Well, it is a business decision, I should have said.

^^well like you said! business is business.

Some of these poor people are very unreasonable. They see people in PP getting $300/sqm or whatever the price is, they think they should get something similar. Not very reasonable. Take for an example, people in Berng Kak Lake development. They were living in an unhealthy environment. If no one plans to develop the lake, they continue to live there for generations to come. There is no value to the lake if there is no development. They were offered something reasonable I think. They still did not want it. They still think they should get the price of a developed area. I never understand that. If the country's leaders were to listen to the NGOs, the country would have difficulty develop anything. Some of these NGOs have an agenda to serve the interest of their country. It is about time that Cambodia serves the interest of its people and not those of others. I am astounded by some of the NGOs and by what they did and said just to keep getting pay check from their masters abroad.

^^ Koh kong city is not right next to the sea!! It is not far from the sea either. Botum sakor is right next to the sea. Why wont u pay for the market price if u want to make a change. This is not the company's responsiblity. They already paid the governemnt enough money just to purchased this land. Now you want them to pay more?? Are u out of your mind.

Downtown Koh Kong is on the waterfront with salt water. It is not inland like you said. Is that not enough? It has all access to the sea. You can ship anything into town. If they want, with that much money, they can expand the city all the way to the OPEN sea. At least, it is not in national park. Botum Sakor is a protected national park.

I don't want to make any change to the park, don't you read my posts? I don't care about the amount of money who pays whom and how much for the project. All I care is that the protected national park should not be touched. Leave it alone. Develop somewhere else. I am totally against it. Don't you understand?

Why don't they develop the city, which is already there? What I said was that if they need lands in the CITY, they can buy lands from the people living there at the market price. This is what I meant in my post. I am not talking about paying at market at the project site because I am 100% against it. So, it does not matter how much they pay.

^^well like you said! business is business.


That is why I am totally against this business policy of the government selling off protected national park. Cambodia needs money and development, but it has to think about protected national parks as well.

Some of these poor people are very unreasonable. They see people in PP getting $300/sqm or whatever the price is, they think they should get something similar. Not very reasonable. Take for an example, people in Berng Kak Lake development. They were living in an unhealthy environment. If no one plans to develop the lake, they continue to live there for generations to come. There is no value to the lake if there is no development. They were offered something reasonable I think. They still did not want it. They still think they should get the price of a developed area. I never understand that. If the country's leaders were to listen to the NGOs, the country would have difficulty develop anything. Some of these NGOs have an agenda to serve the interest of their country. It is about time that Cambodia serves the interest of its people and not those of others. I am astounded by some of the NGOs and by what they did and said just to keep getting pay check from their masters abroad.

It is not about the price of the land at the project site. Reasonable or not is not the point. The point is the government should not allow development in the protected areas like national parks, particularly Batum Sakor national park.

Talking about Boeung Kok lake, so what if poor people live there for generations to come? Are they not human like you and me? Sure that the city needs to be developed. But, they have the right to live there too. PM Hun Sen did the right thing that he gave land title to some people poor people living there even though it is a bit too late for some. It shows that NGOs pressure sometimes works.

The leaders don't need to listen to the NGOs if they don't want too. All they do is having land policy that serves all Cambodians regardless whether they are poor or rich or between. Don't just look at money, more important than people lives.

For sure that all NGOS in Cambodia have agenda to serve the interests of their countries. But, at least they created good paying jobs for many Cambodians and government ghost officials, who may otherwise have to compete for a small pool of jobs some of which need to be bought, which create even more corruption.

You are so right that it is about time that Cambodia serves the interest of all of her people, not a few powerful and rich and those of others who are trying to make money on the back of poor Cambodians and who want to do harm to the protected national parks.

By the way, some of the pay check they get from their masters would create a few jobs in Cambodia. Don't Cambodians want NGOs jobs?

It is not about the price of the land at the project site. Reasonable or not is not the point. The point is the government should not allow development in the protected areas like national parks, particularly Batum Sakor national park.

Talking about Boeung Kok lake, so what if poor people live there for generations to come? Are they not human like you and me? Sure that the city needs to be developed. But, they have the right to live there too. PM Hun Sen did the right thing that he gave land title to some people poor people living there even though it is a bit too late for some. It shows that NGOs pressure sometimes works.

The leaders don't need to listen to the NGOs if they don't want too. All they do is having land policy that serves all Cambodians regardless whether they are poor or rich or between. Don't just look at money, more important than people lives.

For sure that all NGOS in Cambodia have agenda to serve the interests of their countries. But, at least they created good paying jobs for many Cambodians and government ghost officials, who may otherwise have to compete for a small pool of jobs some of which need to be bought, which create even more corruption.

You are so right that it is about time that Cambodia serves the interest of all of her people, not a few powerful and rich and those of others who are trying to make money on the back of poor Cambodians and who want to do harm to the protected national parks.

By the way, some of the pay check they get from their masters would create a few jobs in Cambodia. Don't Cambodians want NGOs jobs?

Cambodians should not want a jobs that degrade or betray their own country. You are again blaming the government. You don't know all the facts to base your blames on. The development that is at the current discussion could very well be the conditions for the billions of dollars of Chinese loan. We just don't know. The Chinese Government is a very smart government and they don't just loan money to anyone without the benefits to their country or business.The loan is and has been used for highways, bridges, and irragation systems. Educate me if you find that these loan byproducts only serve the interest of a few and powerful. You need to broaden your vision of my government. I am sick of foreigners like yourselves who don't contribute, but sit idle and blame on any shortcomings they can find so that they can keep their paycheck coming. Everyone knows that potential sacrifices might have to be made in granting a land concession to foreigner in the national park, but the benefits may very well outweigh the cost. We just don't know all the facts. The advisors to the Cambodian Government are very intelligent people. Some even got PhD from Harvard if you are into academics. It is highly unlikely that a country can be one of the fastest growing economies in the region if it is being led by an incompetent government.

what i think the company would do is cut all the trees, sell it and stop developing half way because it runs out of money, what do you guys think???

That should be simple to avoid, the condition is they need to develop in stages, and they can not clear more land before the each stage is complete.

Obviously, a master plan will need to be develop before any construction activities.

That should be simple to avoid, the condition is they need to develop in stages, and they can not clear more land before the each stage is complete.

Obviously, a master plan will need to be develop before any construction activities.

^^ They are just beginning to clear the forest to make way for the first stage for development and already there are people who cry, whine, etc.

I think they will show the master plan once PM joint the ground breaking ceremony then it will be another 1,000 reason on the TV.

Cambodians should not want a jobs that degrade or betray their own country.

First of all, I am glad that you are debating in a more educated way. Now, I don't understand why a Cambodian is working for NGOs would degrade or betray Cambodia. Even Cambodian government encourage official to work for NGOs so that they can make supplement income. Good or bad it provides jobs to Cambodians.

You are again blaming the government. You don't know all the facts to base your blames on. The development that is at the current discussion could very well be the conditions for the billions of dollars of Chinese loan. We just don't know. The Chinese Government is a very smart government and they don't just loan money to anyone without the benefits to their country or business.

I don't blame your government, but I am critical of some of its policies. A mature democratic government should not be afraid or angry on criticism, whether or not it is positive or negative. Treat them equal, and try to be responsive in a transparent matter and educated way.

It does not matter how much of Chinese loan that it can bring it, I am against the project in current discussion because it is in protected areas - national parks. You are right that the Chinese are smart. They do things for their interest and business. But, Cambodia just can't destroy her protected national parks because the Chinese wants it. If this one gets away, all the protected national parks in Cambodia will have the same faith if the Chinese wants them. Is this what you want to happen because of billion of dollars in loan? Don't you ever care about your own national resources?

The loan is and has been used for highways, bridges, and irragation systems. Educate me if you find that these loan byproducts only serve the interest of a few and powerful.

I have nothing against the loans that are used for highways (even some places the quality is not up to the money spent), bridges, irrigation systems, dams because these are somethings all Cambodians can benefit from and they are needed. I am 100% for these. But, I still have to be concern on how much each project really cost so that all Cambodians know dollars for dollars.

You need to broaden your vision of my government. I am sick of foreigners like yourselves who don't contribute, but sit idle and blame on any shortcomings they can find so that they can keep their paycheck coming.

I did contribute to your government for free for may years that I went and work there before I saw enough of the corruptions there and came back home. People who know nothing can get a decision making position with $100,000. Then, they don't come and work, but do their business. Many educated Cambodians with MSc and PhD coming from abroad could not get jobs that they are qualified for because they don't much money to buy ones. I had enough and left. My question, as Cambodian and strong government supporter, have you ever worked for free for your government? As a record, I did not and don't work for any NGOs involving work in Cambodia.

Everyone knows that potential sacrifices might have to be made in granting a land concession to foreigner in the national park, but the benefits may very well outweigh the cost. We just don't know all the facts.

That is right, we just don't know the facts what would happen. But, if the government wants to take chances, then they should change its policy regarding protected areas. Open them all to the uncertainty in the name of development. Don't protect them. Then, people would say anything because it is policy of government, like or not. But, your government have policy to protect the parks in order to get money from donors to protected areas that needed to be protected. This is why I am critical of your government because of its unclear policy toward these national parks.

The advisors to the Cambodian Government are very intelligent people. Some even got PhD from Harvard if you are into academics. It is highly unlikely that a country can be one of the fastest growing economies in the region if it is being led by an incompetent government.

People with degrees from Harvard are academically very smart. But, remember some these people work for money. If they are not Cambodians, they will do anything that the person hire them to do. Having said that have educated people around, even if they are corrupt, is still much better than having buffalo heads people around that are really corrupt. Also, I'd love to know who they are.

Finally, I am happy that the economy in Cambodia is growing very fast. Of course, I know that the government is not incompetent. I don't say that it is. I am just critical of some of its unclear policies.

^^ They are just beginning to clear the forest to make way for the first stage for development and already there are people who cry, whine, etc.

If they like waterfront so much, why don't they start from the sea first and develop the beach front first. Cutting down trees only for the road to get in there should be acceptable because it minimize the big impact on the whole park. They can build port first so that building materials can be shipped in from the sea. This is should be their first stage. still, I am against it 100%.

If you guys have a chance to see what Chinese and other companies have done in cutting down tress, go to Rattanakiri. Along the road there, the trees were cut down for long time, but nothing have happened on the lands, where they suppose to grow rubbers or do farming. Five years later, it is still the same. Nothing! Now, all are covered with tall grasses. I was so sad to see that. I hope this would not happen here.

That should be simple to avoid, the condition is they need to develop in stages, and they can not clear more land before the each stage is complete.

Obviously, a master plan will need to be develop before any construction activities.

If the project is real, master plan should be available for public to see. I have second of this mega project. Something is hidden there.

^^ it's a chinese city! strictly for chinese! like they used chinese currency, speak chinese, and have their own chinese government controlling the city!

This is not true. Cambodia government is not so stupid to let the chinese government controls the Cambodia town. It would make Cambodia not an independent country anymore. I don't think this is true, and I think you are lying because you love your Chinese boss so much. There is nothing public knows about let alone you sitting in your living reading the same news as we do would know about it. You have no proof. It is your dream. Plus, you don't even know that Koh Kong city is waterfront city. So, stop lying about chinese city, chinese currency, speak chinese....blablabla...You are misleading people in this thread.

If it ever becomes reality, anybody that rich enough to live there can live there. Do you think 2 millions rich chinese will come? Think twice. If the company wants profit, it sells to anybody that can afford.

Khmer is still the official language of Cambodia. Anywhere in Cambodia it must be used. If you want to speak chinese, please do. I don't think chinese will be allowed to become official language used in any town in Cambodia. And I don't even think that the Chinese government and people want that either. This is only the stupid dream of yours. Wake up! Wait! you should sleep more so that you don't mislead people reading this.

As long as Cambodia government does not say anything about the autonomous governing nature of the place (if it ever is built at all), you are a liar. Keep in mind that Cambodia is not Tibet. STOP MISLEADING PEOPLE until you know for sure.

From the site http://www.thejakartaglobe.com/business/chinese-developers-gamble-away-cambodias-history-for-luxury-resort/503181

http://www.thejakartaglobe.com/media/images/medium2/20120307194340300.jpg

From http://uk.reuters.com/article/2012/03/07/us-cambodia-forests-idUKTRE82607N20120307

http://s4.reutersmedia.net/resources/r/?m=02&d=20120307&t=2&i=579577022&w=&fh=&fw=&ll=700&pl=300&r=2012-03-07T133106Z_2_BTRE826113M00_RTROPTP_0_CAMBODIA-FORESTS

http://s4.reutersmedia.net/resources/r/?m=02&d=20120307&t=2&i=579577019&w=&fh=&fw=&ll=700&pl=300&r=2012-03-07T133106Z_2_BTRE826113N00_RTROPTP_0_CAMBODIA-FORESTS

http://s4.reutersmedia.net/resources/r/?m=02&d=20120307&t=2&i=579577012&w=&fh=&fw=&ll=700&pl=300&r=2012-03-07T133106Z_1_BTRE826110900_RTROPTP_0_CAMBODIA-FORESTS


More from http://www.flickr.com/photos/jeremy_holden/4215281958/

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2755/4215281958_02cbcfdba0.jpg






See a video on the project from a Chinese TV from the link below. I wonder who the Chinese public would react to this.

http://english.ntdtv.com/ntdtv_en/asiabrief/2012-03-07/chinese-company-displaces-locals-to-build-casino-in-cambodia.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XJkzsGZtrw&feature=relmfu&feature=relmfu (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XJkzsGZtrw&feature=relmfu)

8XJkzsGZtrw

I bet the first building of this project is one small hotel with casino... If casino earn more build more if not much then build less.. That the reason if casino not make much money bye bye while already cut lot trees and clear the land.

Its just the same way with Bokor project.... I bet again if casino not make much money don't ever expected to see this project growing.... Anyway I still trust Sok Kong (local) then foreign investors.

Speaking of Casino, Cambodia can consider to develop a Casino Capital / gambling industry like Macau. There are lots of money (tax) to be make in the gambling industry.

All these small casinos in the borders with limited road access only benefits the borders, and probably not very regulated.

^^ then Cambodia will just end up with unmoved construction crane, messy land of stalled construction. what a messy investor

This project is a BIG investment from China. Look at the one in Laos that the Chinese are going to build and they are still building more buidings. It's still going stong

This project is a BIG investment from China. Look at the one in Laos that the Chinese are going to build and they are still building more buidings. It's still going stong

Why don't you provide the link to that project in Laos so that we can look closer at it.

I wonder who the Chinese public would react to this.

http://english.ntdtv.com/ntdtv_en/asiabrief/2012-03-07/chinese-company-displaces-locals-to-build-casino-in-cambodia.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XJkzsGZtrw&feature=relmfu&feature=relmfu (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XJkzsGZtrw&feature=relmfu)

8XJkzsGZtrw

The debate here looks heated.

Well, do you have any neutral and well known links to back up your statement?

NTDTV is a biased site with deceptive political propaganda against CCP powered by Falong Gong (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falun_Gong) which was eliminated as a heretical religion in mainland China in 1999. FLG is still around outside of China, but most of Chinese oversea don't care about it.

The debate here looks heated.

Well, do you have any neutral and well known links to back up your statement?

NTDTV is a biased site with deceptive political propaganda against CCP powered by Falong Gong (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falun_Gong) which was eliminated as a heretical religion in mainland China in 1999. FLG is still around outside of China, but most of Chinese oversea don't care about it.

the only person who rejects this project is Asian. he believes the media, news, anything from the west. if the west tell him to go jump off the bridge he will do it too. i SUPPORT THIS PROJECT 1 MILLION%.

This is not true. Cambodia government is not so stupid to let the chinese government controls the Cambodia town. It would make Cambodia not an independent country anymore. I don't think this is true, and I think you are lying because you love your Chinese boss so much. There is nothing public knows about let alone you sitting in your living reading the same news as we do would know about it. You have no proof. It is your dream. Plus, you don't even know that Koh Kong city is waterfront city. So, stop lying about chinese city, chinese currency, speak chinese....blablabla...You are misleading people in this thread.

If it ever becomes reality, anybody that rich enough to live there can live there. Do you think 2 millions rich chinese will come? Think twice. If the company wants profit, it sells to anybody that can afford.

Khmer is still the official language of Cambodia. Anywhere in Cambodia it must be used. If you want to speak chinese, please do. I don't think chinese will be allowed to become official language used in any town in Cambodia. And I don't even think that the Chinese government and people want that either. This is only the stupid dream of yours. Wake up! Wait! you should sleep more so that you don't mislead people reading this.

As long as Cambodia government does not say anything about the autonomous governing nature of the place (if it ever is built at all), you are a liar. Keep in mind that Cambodia is not Tibet. STOP MISLEADING PEOPLE until you know for sure.

^^GUY! YOU ARE OVERREACTING! THIS IS THE 21 CENTURY. just because there will be a chinese gov. controlling this town doesn't mean they will conquer this land. read chinese history more and come back and talk to me.

The debate here looks heated.

Well, do you have any neutral and well known links to back up your statement?

NTDTV is a biased site with deceptive political propaganda against CCP powered by Falong Gong (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falun_Gong) which was eliminated as a heretical religion in mainland China in 1999. FLG is still around outside of China, but most of Chinese oversea don't care about it.

The station may be bias but they got the video from Reuter. I don't, but do you have any neutral and well known links to prove otherwise?

the only person who rejects this project is Asian. he believes the media, news, anything from the west. if the west tell him to go jump off the bridge he will do it too. i SUPPORT THIS PROJECT 1 MILLION%.

Is that right? Why don't we put up and take a vote on this issue? Don't you believe on the media and news from those who support it? You didn't even know where the hell Koh Kong was until I brought it up. If the Chinese tells you that Kok Kong is in Boston, you would believe it as well.

^^GUY! YOU ARE OVERREACTING! THIS IS THE 21 CENTURY. just because there will be a chinese gov. controlling this town doesn't mean they will conquer this land. read chinese history more and come back and talk to me.

Does Tibet ring a bell to you in the history of China? Why would I talk chinese history to you if you are not even educated at it?

The station may be bias but they got the video from Reuter. I don't, but do you have any neutral and well known links to prove otherwise?

The video I quoted is seemingly the footage shot by Ntdtv. There is not credit to Reuter in the picture. Ntdtv is extremely biased, politically and ideologicall, anyone that goes broken can be easily on their paycheck as long as they do what they are told to do. You can ask your Chinese friends for this in case you dont believe.

Honestly, I dont either (Combodian news is not widely covered here), neither should I. This project is simply on track, be patient with it and let's wait and see, for the time being it's a little early to jump the gun IMO.

Although there are a few failed precedents in the process of development, Chinese investentments in Cambodia as a whole are successful and also well documented in the international media. I think a few business failures are normal in business pactices and it happens anywhere, we can see many property developments are halted for whatever reason in any country and many unfinished buildings lie in any cites, it's more common in a vigorously booming market like countries in Asia.

Does Tibet ring a bell to you in the history of China? Why would I talk chinese history to you if you are not even educated at it?

If there were not China, Cambodia as an independent nation might have vanished from the map.

Talking history simply based on a certain segement of history is not a valid critique.

If there were not China, Cambodia as an independent nation might have vanished from the map.

What base do you have to say such thing? When did China do to help Cambodia not to vanish from the map? I thought that China would have helped her friends - the red khmers - killing many khmers during the 70s. Was there any reason for that?

The video I quoted is seemingly the footage shot by Ntdtv. There is not credit to Reuter in the picture. Ntdtv is extremely biased, politically and ideologicall, anyone that goes broken can be easily on their paycheck as long as they do what they are told to do. You can ask your Chinese friends for this in case you dont believe.

Honestly, I dont either (Combodian news is not widely covered here), neither should I. This project is simply on track, be patient with it and let's wait and see, for the time being it's a little early to jump the gun IMO.

Although there are a few failed precedents in the process of development, Chinese investentments in Cambodia as a whole are successful and also well documented in the international media. I think a few business failures are normal in business pactices and it happens anywhere, we can see many property developments are halted for whatever reason in any country and many unfinished buildings lie in any cites, it's more common in a vigorously booming market like countries in Asia.

Here is the origin of the video. I believe it was shot by Reuters.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/03/07/us-cambodia-forests-idUSTRE82607N20120307

You guys are missing my points. I am not talking about success or fail Chinese projects in Cambodia. My point is there should NOT be any development, from any country, not just China, with a size more than 10,000 hectares (24,700 acres) in Cambodia protected national parks. That is it. This is the policy of the Cambodia government. This project in question is 36,000 hectares (89,000 acres) project. It is almost a quarter (if I am not mistaken) of the Botum Sakor National park. That is my point. To me, it is not the right thing to do.

Developing Koh Kong city would be a better for many Cambodians because the city is not in any protected areas, and it is a water front city as well. Many beautiful things are there. Lots of local and foreign tourists of all type will go there, and they bring more money into the city and help out the locals. Small businesses will be benefiting as well.

This projects, however, will bring most of the Chinese gamblers, most of whom are irresponsible people. Small businesses would not get anything from this place. But, it is not the point. The point is, I say it again, it is not right to allow development from any country in protected areas such as national parks.

If there were not China, Cambodia as an independent nation might have vanished from the map.

Please tells us a bit more....

I am really interest in Chinese contribution in Cambodia.

Here is the origin of the video. I believe it was shot by Reuters.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/03/07/us-cambodia-forests-idUSTRE82607N20120307

You guys are missing my points. I am not talking about success or fail Chinese projects in Cambodia. My point is there should NOT be any development, from any country, not just China, with a size more than 10,000 hectares (24,700 acres) in Cambodia protected national parks. That is it. This is the policy of the Cambodia government. This project in question is 36,000 hectares (89,000 acres) project. It is almost a quarter (if I am not mistaken) of the Botum Sakor National park. That is my point. To me, it is not the right thing to do.

Developing Koh Kong city would be a better for many Cambodians because the city is not in any protected areas, and it is a water front city as well. Many beautiful things are there. Lots of local and foreign tourists of all type will go there, and they bring more money into the city and help out the locals. Small businesses will be benefiting as well.

This projects, however, will bring most of the Chinese gamblers, most of whom are irresponsible people. Small businesses would not get anything from this place. But, it is not the point. The point is, I say it again, it is not right to allow development from any country in protected areas such as national parks.

In any country, if something is important enough to a country, there is ALWAYS a way to work around the law. In this case, the government may have reclassified the land so that the portion to be granted as concession is no longer part of the national park. In the most democratic country, America, there are similar things. If the government wants to force people out of their land, it uses imminent domain law.

Here is the origin of the video. I believe it was shot by Reuters.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/03/07/us-cambodia-forests-idUSTRE82607N20120307

You guys are missing my points. I am not talking about success or fail Chinese projects in Cambodia. My point is there should NOT be any development, from any country, not just China, with a size more than 10,000 hectares (24,700 acres) in Cambodia protected national parks. That is it. This is the policy of the Cambodia government. This project in question is 36,000 hectares (89,000 acres) project. It is almost a quarter (if I am not mistaken) of the Botum Sakor National park. That is my point. To me, it is not the right thing to do.

Developing Koh Kong city would be a better for many Cambodians because the city is not in any protected areas, and it is a water front city as well. Many beautiful things are there. Lots of local and foreign tourists of all type will go there, and they bring more money into the city and help out the locals. Small businesses will be benefiting as well.

This projects, however, will bring most of the Chinese gamblers, most of whom are irresponsible people. Small businesses would not get anything from this place. But, it is not the point. The point is, I say it again, it is not right to allow development from any country in protected areas such as national parks.

if u want to help go to the gov and tell to his face that THIS IS WRONG. SITTING IN THE COMPUTER SCREEN AIN'T GONNA HELP YOU NOR THE KHMER PEOPLE.

If there were not China, Cambodia as an independent nation might have vanished from the map.

Talking history simply based on a certain segement of history is not a valid critique.

Yes. your are right. If it wasn't for China I don't think Cambodia would be on the map. Asian is worried about 36,000 hectares in a park but he's not worry about the whole land of cambodia.

In any country, if something is important enough to a country, there is ALWAYS a way to work around the law. In this case, the government may have reclassified the land so that the portion to be granted as concession is no longer part of the national park. In the most democratic country, America, there are similar things. If the government wants to force people out of their land, it uses imminent domain law.

It doesn't matter where it is, protected area is protected area. There are protected in America in where there lots of oils reserve. Only the republicans want to drill and drill baby drill. The democrats are protecting them.

In Cambodia, there is no other side can stop the government from breaking their policy. Your view is development is more important than the natural environment that you are living in. Global warming is real. The rich countries have the mean to deal with it. For a poor country like Cambodia, if it is coming, nothing will be protected. The Chinese would not care about the environmental problem in their country, let in Cambodia. It does not matter how you spin in, I still think it is a wrong way to go when you don't protect what you have until it is too late.

if u want to help go to the gov and tell to his face that THIS IS WRONG. SITTING IN THE COMPUTER SCREEN AIN'T GONNA HELP YOU NOR THE KHMER PEOPLE.


I had been there and done that wasting three years of my life trying to give the government advise in this ministry. They listened, but they did not do anything different that things that could benefit them personally.

What is wrong with you? why would I need any help? Khmer people that need help. They are those that you should stand up for what they believe it is right for them and their children in many generations to come.

What I am doing here, even those it may not help all Cambodians in Cambodia, but it may affect thinking of a few who read my posts. You never know that someone out there read and think about it and may spread the words.

My point is still no development of the size more than 10,000 hectares should be allowed in any national parks. Period.

Yes. your are right. If it wasn't for China I don't think Cambodia would be on the map. Asian is worried about 36,000 hectares in a park but he's not worry about the whole land of cambodia.

That is right. Cambodia almost disappeared from the map from 1975-1979 when the red chinese helped to protect the red khmer that killed most of the educated people in Cambodia.

Oh yeah, I am concerned about the whole Cambodia's land because I am afraid it would be turned into Chinese second Tibet. The Chinese don't dare do to Thailand and the Vietnam. So, they would do it to Laos and Cambodia just to keep the Viets in the corner. Before China would not do much because she was poor and weak. Now, she is rich and more powerful than ever. She is starting to make noise just the other superpower have done to screw up the world.

guy. you need to open your eyes. this is 21st century. just take a chill pill and relax. :lol:

What base do you have to say such thing? When did China do to help Cambodia not to vanish from the map? I thought that China would have helped her friends - the red khmers - killing many khmers during the 70s. Was there any reason for that?

That is right. Cambodia almost disappeared from the map from 1975-1979 when the red chinese helped to protect the red khmer that killed most of the educated people in Cambodia.

So you mean China didn't help Cambodia hold its territory? I'm curious who backed Cambodia when Cambodia was long invaded and occuped by Vietnamese communists then.
And also astounding why China waged a war against Vietnam in 1979 and asked Vietanmese troops to retreat from PP no strings attached and still hold a strong choke on Vietnam till they pulled out of Cambodia completely?
Do you think Cambodia could have standed on their own without the help of China when occupied by Vietcongs?
I dont understand what is in it for China to help killing Khmers? Please enlighten me.
Red khmer aka Cambodian communists was organised by Vietcongs into a strong political force from 30s to 60s and then Pot Pol took power in early 70s with the help of the US involvement, so Vietnam and the US also helped their friends kill Khmers going by your logic?
Why Khmer King Sihanouk fled to China to live in exile and meanwhile made alliance with red Khmers? Did he also want China to help Red Khmers kill his own subjects?


Developing Koh Kong city would be a better for many Cambodians because the city is not in any protected areas, and it is a water front city as well. Many beautiful things are there. Lots of local and foreign tourists of all type will go there, and they bring more money into the city and help out the locals. Small businesses will be benefiting as well.

This projects, however, will bring most of the Chinese gamblers, most of whom are irresponsible people. Small businesses would not get anything from this place. But, it is not the point. The point is, I say it again, it is not right to allow development from any country in protected areas such as national parks.

Koh Kong is a safer place relative to the national park when it comes to environment protection, I bet Cambodian local officals and everyone in Cambodia know it as well as you do, but what upper hands do you think Koh Kong has compared to the cites alongside the Sino-Laos / Sino-Burma borders, let alone Macau, S'pore, Seoul and Pyongyang?

If Cambodia can't offer something different to others, why do you think foreign investors venture tens of millions of their money on such a small and little known city? Do you think local customers will make these casinos and resorts not just profitable but more profiable then in other places?

If not, can you come up with another plan more realistic and feasible?

Oh yeah, I am concerned about the whole Cambodia's land because I am afraid it would be turned into Chinese second Tibet. The Chinese don't dare do to Thailand and the Vietnam. So, they would do it to Laos and Cambodia just to keep the Viets in the corner. Before China would not do much because she was poor and weak. Now, she is rich and more powerful than ever. She is starting to make noise just the other superpower have done to screw up the world.

Jesus, are you just arguing for the argument's sake here? The second Tibet, ugh, why not touch on something more believable to argue here? Tell Cambodia as the second Tibet to China to the Chinese people no matter where they are from, they would laugh you out the door. Would ordinary Chinese people like to look on Cambodians as their countrymen? No, never would we like to bring in millions of people to debase the current standard of living, and China doesnt need a relatively undeveloped and tiny enclave far from their home base to benefit herself politcally and economically, or the losses would well far exceed any potential gains, it's 21st centry as Fulltimes said perviously, not agricultural society any more. Also, Chinese had no special affinity towards Cambodians in history, many of Chinese now have no clue where exactly Cambodia locates down south in Southeast Asia or which city is the captial city of Cambodia, and some even have never heard of this nation before (no offense and no kidding). Cambodia is simply out of the attention span of Chinese general public as it were! In contrast, the historical memory of Tibet as part of China has been deeply ingrained in every Chinese mindset since Tang dynasty. British Empire once doped out a scheme to force Qing dynasty to concede Tibet via enforcing an unequal treaty with them. The part the British colonists were talking to was Beijing, not Lhasa, simply indicates Tibet was at the time within Beijing's jurisdiction! What role did Cambodia play in the Chinese history? Emmm, Cambodia is totally under the radar of the whole Chinese history and has been never for once mentioned in the Chinese history book. Next to impossible for Chinese to see Cambodia as the 2nd Tibet.

Perhaps when you come to your sense later on you wont even believe what you're preaching down right now. You should first take the pulse of the Cambodian history to be a wise adviser and get it through your head which nation and what people went down in the Khmer history as the most greedy aggressor of land of the powerful Empire Khmer in the past if you're really concerned for the Cambodian land, it's not demanding for a well educated person, otherwise maybe to your astonishment Cambodia will first be the second Kampuchea Krom or something for long before being the 2nd Tibet as you want.

Actually, Cambodia did have Chinese visitors,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhou_Daguan

I read somewhere it was the remain of his writing that lead to explorer to search for Angkor Wat.

Actually, Cambodia did have Chinese visitors,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhou_Daguan

I read somewhere it was the remain of his writing that lead to explorer to search for Angkor Wat.

Ankor Wat was first visited by a Chinese and he was the first foreigner to document its existence.

Communism aside, China is and has been Cambodia's best friend. It is the most reliable friend among the super powers.

Back during Angkor Height. The Khmer Empire used to be neighbors with China bordering each other. There was no signs of tensions between the two. they traded with each other and shared knowledge. ALL THE TIME CHINA HAD CAMBODIA'S BACK. They even help fight against their neighbors the Chams Muslims.

I'm pretty ashamed of this GUY NAME "ASIAN". Even a Chinese from China knows more Cambodian history than this guy. Vietnam was actually the backer and supporter of the khmer rouge and they were the ones who made them. It wasn't for China's intervention, Cambodia would have perish by her neighbors.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/09/Map-of-southeast-asia_900_CE.png/426px-Map-of-southeast-asia_900_CE.png

So you mean China didn't help Cambodia hold its territory? I'm curious who backed Cambodia when Cambodia was long invaded and occuped by Vietnamese communists then.
And also astounding why China waged a war against Vietnam in 1979 and asked Vietanmese troops to retreat from PP no strings attached and still hold a strong choke on Vietnam till they pulled out of Cambodia completely?
Do you think Cambodia could have standed on their own without the help of China when occupied by Vietcongs?
I dont understand what is in it for China to help killing Khmers? Please enlighten me.
Red khmer aka Cambodian communists was organised by Vietcongs into a strong political force from 30s to 60s and then Pot Pol took power in early 70s with the help of the US involvement, so Vietnam and the US also helped their friends kill Khmers going by your logic?
Why Khmer King Sihanouk fled to China to live in exile and meanwhile made alliance with red Khmers? Did he also want China to help Red Khmers kill his own subjects?




Koh Kong is a safer place relative to the national park when it comes to environment protection, I bet Cambodian local officals and everyone in Cambodia know it as well as you do, but what upper hands do you think Koh Kong has compared to the cites alongside the Sino-Laos / Sino-Burma borders, let alone Macau, S'pore, Seoul and Pyongyang?

If Cambodia can't offer something different to others, why do you think foreign investors venture tens of millions of their money on such a small and little known city? Do you think local customers will make these casinos and resorts not just profitable but more profiable then in other places?

If not, can you come up with another plan more realistic and feasible?



Jesus, are you just arguing for the argument's sake here? The second Tibet, ugh, why not touch on something more believable to argue here? Tell Cambodia as the second Tibet to China to the Chinese people no matter where they are from, they would laugh you out the door. Would ordinary Chinese people like to look on Cambodians as their countrymen? No, never would we like to bring in millions of people to debase the current standard of living, and China doesnt need a relatively undeveloped and tiny enclave far from their home base to benefit herself politcally and economically, or the losses would well far exceed any potential gains, it's 21st centry as Fulltimes said perviously, not agricultural society any more. Also, Chinese had no special affinity towards Cambodians in history, many of Chinese now have no clue where exactly Cambodia locates down south in Southeast Asia or which city is the captial city of Cambodia, and some even have never heard of this nation before (no offense and no kidding). Cambodia is simply out of the attention span of Chinese general public as it were! In contrast, the historical memory of Tibet as part of China has been deeply ingrained in every Chinese mindset since Tang dynasty. British Empire once doped out a scheme to force Qing dynasty to concede Tibet via enforcing an unequal treaty with them. The part the British colonists were talking to was Beijing, not Lhasa, simply indicates Tibet was at the time within Beijing's jurisdiction! What role did Cambodia play in the Chinese history? Emmm, Cambodia is totally under the radar of the whole Chinese history and has been never for once mentioned in the Chinese history book. Next to impossible for Chinese to see Cambodia as the 2nd Tibet.

Perhaps when you come to your sense later on you wont even believe what you're preaching down right now. You should first take the pulse of the Cambodian history to be a wise adviser and get it through your head which nation and what people went down in the Khmer history as the most greedy aggressor of land of the powerful Empire Khmer in the past if you're really concerned for the Cambodian land, it's not demanding for a well educated person, otherwise maybe to your astonishment Cambodia will first be the second Kampuchea Krom or something for long before being the 2nd Tibet as you want.

My Chinese friend. Please don't argue with this guy no more. Let him sit on his computer and watch time fly. Maybe he will realize this is the 21st century and not the stone age.

So you mean China didn't help Cambodia hold its territory? I'm curious who backed Cambodia when Cambodia was long invaded and occuped by Vietnamese communists then.
And also astounding why China waged a war against Vietnam in 1979 and asked Vietanmese troops to retreat from PP no strings attached and still hold a strong choke on Vietnam till they pulled out of Cambodia completely?
Do you think Cambodia could have standed on their own without the help of China when occupied by Vietcongs?
I dont understand what is in it for China to help killing Khmers? Please enlighten me.
Red khmer aka Cambodian communists was organised by Vietcongs into a strong political force from 30s to 60s and then Pot Pol took power in early 70s with the help of the US involvement, so Vietnam and the US also helped their friends kill Khmers going by your logic?
Why Khmer King Sihanouk fled to China to live in exile and meanwhile made alliance with red Khmers? Did he also want China to help Red Khmers kill his own subjects?




Koh Kong is a safer place relative to the national park when it comes to environment protection, I bet Cambodian local officals and everyone in Cambodia know it as well as you do, but what upper hands do you think Koh Kong has compared to the cites alongside the Sino-Laos / Sino-Burma borders, let alone Macau, S'pore, Seoul and Pyongyang?

If Cambodia can't offer something different to others, why do you think foreign investors venture tens of millions of their money on such a small and little known city? Do you think local customers will make these casinos and resorts not just profitable but more profiable then in other places?

If not, can you come up with another plan more realistic and feasible?



Jesus, are you just arguing for the argument's sake here? The second Tibet, ugh, why not touch on something more believable to argue here? Tell Cambodia as the second Tibet to China to the Chinese people no matter where they are from, they would laugh you out the door. Would ordinary Chinese people like to look on Cambodians as their countrymen? No, never would we like to bring in millions of people to debase the current standard of living, and China doesnt need a relatively undeveloped and tiny enclave far from their home base to benefit herself politcally and economically, or the losses would well far exceed any potential gains, it's 21st centry as Fulltimes said perviously, not agricultural society any more. Also, Chinese had no special affinity towards Cambodians in history, many of Chinese now have no clue where exactly Cambodia locates down south in Southeast Asia or which city is the captial city of Cambodia, and some even have never heard of this nation before (no offense and no kidding). Cambodia is simply out of the attention span of Chinese general public as it were! In contrast, the historical memory of Tibet as part of China has been deeply ingrained in every Chinese mindset since Tang dynasty. British Empire once doped out a scheme to force Qing dynasty to concede Tibet via enforcing an unequal treaty with them. The part the British colonists were talking to was Beijing, not Lhasa, simply indicates Tibet was at the time within Beijing's jurisdiction! What role did Cambodia play in the Chinese history? Emmm, Cambodia is totally under the radar of the whole Chinese history and has been never for once mentioned in the Chinese history book. Next to impossible for Chinese to see Cambodia as the 2nd Tibet.

Perhaps when you come to your sense later on you wont even believe what you're preaching down right now. You should first take the pulse of the Cambodian history to be a wise adviser and get it through your head which nation and what people went down in the Khmer history as the most greedy aggressor of land of the powerful Empire Khmer in the past if you're really concerned for the Cambodian land, it's not demanding for a well educated person, otherwise maybe to your astonishment Cambodia will first be the second Kampuchea Krom or something for long before being the 2nd Tibet as you want.

You just hit the nail on this guy's head lolz! :bash::bash::bash:

This guy ASIAN forgot about the K-7 plan organized by the vietcongs that killed hundreds of thousands of khmers after when vietnam occupied cambodia. He also forgot to mention the secret bombing of cambodia by U.S. and kill god knows how many. Yet he blames everything on china. WTF? i THINK YOUR HEAD NEEDS TO FOCUS MORE ON THE LAND BEING STOLEN ON THE EAST EACH DAY. This is my last words and reply to you "Asian". Good luck on your journey to save this little piece of 36,000 hectares.

They even help fight against their neighbors the Chams Muslims.
My history book didn't say anything about the chinese helping the khmer fighting the cham. It was our great king that gathered an army and pushed back the cham.
Vietnam was actually the backer and supporter of the khmer rouge and they were the ones who made them. I agree with you on that one but china also provided khmer rouge with weapons, political, and others financial support.
It wasn't for China's intervention, Cambodia would have perish by her neighbors.

What did the Chinese do ? I want to know more.

guy. you need to open your eyes. this is 21st century. just take a chill pill and relax. :lol:

You are the one that needs to open your blind eyes. This is 21st century and global warming is real. Don't hear from SeeMacau and MrFusion that the weather in Cambodia is getting warmer more that usual. If lots of trees disappear in Cambodia, the weather there will get extreme, heat or cold. People die in that case. By the way, I don't think you want to visit then.

So you mean China didn't help Cambodia hold its territory? I'm curious who backed Cambodia when Cambodia was long invaded and occuped by Vietnamese communists then.
And also astounding why China waged a war against Vietnam in 1979 and asked Vietanmese troops to retreat from PP no strings attached and still hold a strong choke on Vietnam till they pulled out of Cambodia completely?
Do you think Cambodia could have standed on their own without the help of China when occupied by Vietcongs?

Did it work? It did not, the red Vietnamese took over the country and occupied for a decade until the west won the cold war. The Vietnamese pulled out not because the chinese, but because of the Soviet went bankrupt. I know it too that the red chinese try to wage war against the red vietnamese during the invasion of Cambodia. But, it did not scare the viets. In fact, the chinese never scare the viet. If the chinese could, there would not have been a country called Vietnam. If you remember, the Russians mobilized their troops to the chinese border in support of their babies vietnamese, and your chinese were chicken and pulled back and let the viets run over your babies red khmer.


I dont understand what is in it for China to help killing Khmers? Please enlighten me.

If the chinese really care about Cambodians, they would have done something to stop the killing while they were backers of the red khmer. The king? Let history judge him. By the way, the chinese did even care about their own people during the cultural revolution, where its base was used by the red khmers for killing Cambodians.


Koh Kong is a safer place relative to the national park when it comes to environment protection, I bet Cambodian local officals and everyone in Cambodia know it as well as you do, but what upper hands do you think Koh Kong has compared to the cites alongside the Sino-Laos / Sino-Burma borders, let alone Macau, S'pore, Seoul and Pyongyang?

It doesn't. No need to. It can't be compared to Macau, Singapore, but Sino-Laos/ Sino-Burma borders? Koh kong has access to the sea, and they don't

If Cambodia can't offer something different to others, why do you think foreign investors venture tens of millions of their money on such a small and little known city? Do you think local customers will make these casinos and resorts not just profitable but more profiable then in other places?
If not, can you come up with another plan more realistic and feasible?

What that site has that Koh Kong city does not have? May be a white sand beach? But, if you visit the area there are more things that Koh Kong has to offer. A site ready airport (just need to expand it), water front, bridge, manpower. etc...My point is I am against building big a gambling city out of a protected national park. I don't mind if the area near the beach is development, but almost a quarter of the park? It is too much.


Jesus, are you just arguing for the argument's sake here? The second Tibet.... Next to impossible for Chinese to see Cambodia as the 2nd Tibet.

You never know. Other superpower have done that. China was one poor could not afford to do it. Now, she is rich and she may want to try. In fact, she did in 1975-1979. She was trying to build her airbase in Kampong Chhnang, Cambodia, and the Russians were nervous and let their babies do the work and kicked chinese baby out to close that base.

Perhaps when you come to your sense later on you wont even believe what you're preaching down right now. You should first take the pulse of the Cambodian history to be a wise adviser and get it through your head which nation and what people went down in the Khmer history as the most greedy aggressor of land of the powerful Empire Khmer in the past if you're really concerned for the Cambodian land, it's not demanding for a well educated person, otherwise maybe to your astonishment Cambodia will first be the second Kampuchea Krom or something for long before being the 2nd Tibet as you want.

Look, if you are having problem with the Vietnamese, go and deal with them in their forum. I am not going into that here. It is the wrong place.

My point or my preaching, if I could say, is that I am against any kind of development in protected areas in national parks. It does not matter whether or not it is in Cambodia or in China or anywhere in the world. Don't you have enough brainpower to understand that?

Communism aside, China is and has been Cambodia's best friend. It is the most reliable friend among the super powers.

I agree with that. That was why China closed her eyes when her babies red khmers were killing their own people because may be she did not get along with another superpower, Soviet, who supported the Vietnamese.

Back during Angkor Height. The Khmer Empire used to be neighbors with China bordering each other. There was no signs of tensions between the two. they traded with each other and shared knowledge. ALL THE TIME CHINA HAD CAMBODIA'S BACK. They even help fight against their neighbors the Chams Muslims.

All China knew about the great Khmer Empire was a visit by a Chinese scholar. That was it. You don't have any clue, do you? Where did you get that they helped each other fight against the Chams? The Chinese was busy fighting the Viets for generations.

I'm pretty ashamed of this GUY NAME "ASIAN". Even a Chinese from China knows more Cambodian history than this guy. Vietnam was actually the backer and supporter of the khmer rouge and they were the ones who made them. It wasn't for China's intervention, Cambodia would have perish by her neighbours.

Why you have to be ashamed of me? Forget about Chinese knowing Cambodian history. You, I mean you, do you know anything about Cambodia besides your chinese master? Again, you are trying to put the blame on the viets while your master was supporting the red khmers when they were killing Cambodians. You are so dangerous. Don't tell me that you are related to Pol Pot, who may be a Teochew too, you know.

Anyway, my point is always about the fact that no development should be allowed in protected areas like national parks. It does not matter if it is in Cambodia or China or anywhere else in the world. So, stop spinning my point. Do you have a brainless in your head not to understand my point?

By the way, you have a nice map there. Perhaps, you should have a source for it.

My Chinese friend. Please don't argue with this guy no more. Let him sit on his computer and watch time fly. Maybe he will realize this is the 21st century and not the stone age.

I am happy that he/she does not. I am not here to hear his fight against the vietnamese. Are we all sitting in front computer and watching time fly? Unless you are sitting "ON" your computer and get your butt burn, and watching time fly. Burn baby burn....

You just hit the nail on this guy's head lolz! :bash::bash::bash:

Maybe on your head because what he said has nothing to do with my point about the development in the protected park. It is kind of out off topics.

This guy ASIAN forgot about the K-7 plan organized by the vietcongs that killed hundreds of thousands of khmers after when vietnam occupied cambodia. He also forgot to mention the secret bombing of cambodia by U.S. and kill god knows how many. Yet he blames everything on china. WTF? i THINK YOUR HEAD NEEDS TO FOCUS MORE ON THE LAND BEING STOLEN ON THE EAST EACH DAY. This is my last words and reply to you "Asian". Good luck on your journey to save this little piece of 36,000 hectares.

K-7, did it kill more than a million that the red khmer killing their people under the watch of your master chinese? I remember those that you say very well. But, that is not my point. You guys really misunderstand my point. Perhaps, if you don't like it, it is OK. But, you don't have to spread it over to others. Your bonehead need to focus on the point.

It has been fun, keep your stupid words coming...

It is getting very interesting knowing that foreigners know more Cambodian history than Cambodians. I am a little ashamed. 7freedom7 and Asian seem to be two intelligent guys. Please don't shut down this conversation or debate or whatever we call it. What is more interesting is Fulltimer is getting more coherent with his expression now.

It is getting very interesting knowing that foreigners know more Cambodian history than Cambodians. I am a little ashamed. 7freedom7 and Asian seem to be two intelligent guys. Please don't shut down this conversation or debate or whatever we call it. What is more interesting is Fulltimer is getting more coherent with his expression now.

I don't really think it has anything to do with my point on the topic of this thread. I've just been playing along with these guys.

If they want, we can creat another thread talking about the history of China connecting to Cambodia, and who did what. Since the blame is too on the Vietnamese, may be vietnamese forumers can join and discuss as well.

But, I don't think it would last because some people would go out of propotion and it would end up with a fight chat rather than a discussion.

I stay here China-VN border almost 10 years but only now that I know China withdrew their army back because of Russia..lol

Here my Viet friends always keep saying that VN was help Cambodia during 1979...
But my Chinese friends also said China help Cambodia to fight VN in 1979 too...

God, I thought China stop fight VN because (Heng Sam Rin, Chea Sim, Hun Sen) these three were new leader... And was ask VN for support to fight red Khmer so that China no reason to fight VN.

What I have thought is if VN direct fight red Khmer without invited by any Khmer than China also got reason enough to fight but since it was interrupted by the three new kings than spoil the soup.

VN also got reason to fight just simply said the three kings was ask VN for help..lol!!!!

Anyways! nowadays China helping Cambodia to build a new house since it was destroyed during war...................... But don't forget the house key is still control by VN.

If Cambodia want to change the key unless change the door too.... That's why Cambodia political look so messy... its hard to trust... Especially from foreign investors etc...

SeaMacao, you should do sth lah... I think you should create one more thread " Debate Forum " ... So everyone can debate ant topic over there ;)))

SeaMacao, you should do sth lah... I think you should create one more thread " Debate Forum " ... So everyone can debate ant topic over there ;)))

Not sure about a "debate forum", but the recent posts is seriously off-topic and might need to divert to "serious topics",

also can people actually provide some reference.

anyway, China is very different to China in the 50s, or even the late 80s. What China did back then, weather it is positive or negative has got nothing to do with what they will do in the future.

and it doesn't matter people like it or not, American glory is over, China will be the new world leader, it is best policy to forget any wrong doing at the past (if exist at all), and be friend with them.

Did it work? It did not, the red Vietnamese took over the country and occupied for a decade until the west won the cold war. The Vietnamese pulled out not because the chinese, but because of the Soviet went bankrupt. I know it too that the red chinese try to wage war against the red vietnamese during the invasion of Cambodia. But, it did not scare the viets. In fact, the chinese never scare the viet. If the chinese could, there would not have been a country called Vietnam. If you remember, the Russians mobilized their troops to the chinese border in support of their babies vietnamese, and your chinese were chicken and pulled back and let the viets run over your babies red khmer.

Yea, Chinese were chicken. When China began to send troops into Vietnam, USSR failed on their words and didnt send one single soldier into China unlike what they promised to Vietcongs before the Sino-Viet war, who were more like chicken, eh? Check with a fine-toothed comb what's going on in Sino-soviet border in 1969, it'll be more clear to your eyes who were indeed chicken.

Chinese military action didn't work immediately and yet it directly distracted Vietcongs' rapt attention and dispersed their troops away from Cambodia, and thus set back Vietnamese process of annexing the whole Cambodia and then resulted in more room for manoeuvre and living made for the brave Cambodian defenders unsatisfied with Vietcongs' iron fist in both invaded and un-invaded areas, on top of that, the constant Chinese military pressure placed on the Vietcongs in the north in 80s did paralyze the Vietnam's economy and they failed to turn the occupation of Cambodia into an economic drive to Vietnam, nor did their occupation serve their political purpose in Southeast Asia. In short, their losses outmunbered their gains at loggerheads of China. They couldn't afford to continue on with the aftermath as such, that's why their invasion came to end and that's how the Chinese military action worked at a small price in favor of China and don't you still think Chinese brought about a far reaching effect on the Cambodian independence?

But true, Cambodian should appreciate the USSR broke down in 1990, if there were not USSR turning down the China's proposals against Vietnam's invasion in UN, Vietcongs would have left earlier. However, if there were not China imposing military and political pressure on Vietnam, on what basis do you think Khmers were at that time strong enough alone to knock Vietcongs out of Cambodia even if the USSR was gone? How would Cambodia react if Vietcongs didn't pull out after the USSR collapse? I also wonder If do you think Vietcongs and the Soviets were a more honest broker nobly keeping the peace in Indochina peninsula than the China that always called in on many nations to oppose Vietnamese occupation of Cambodia in the UN and other international organizations? In no way is it justified in any law clause from any international laws for a nation unilaterally to send their army to interfere in other nation's internal affairs like they do in their own.


If the chinese really care about Cambodians, they would have done something to stop the killing while they were backers of the red khmer. The king? Let history judge him. By the way, the chinese did even care about their own people during the cultural revolution, where its base was used by the red khmers for killing Cambodians.

It's a political turmoil. With Cambodia as a sovereign country under the rule of Red Khmers recognised by the UN, it's your Cambodian own business. Internal affairs can only be ressolved by yourselves, or that would only further escalate the conflict like the k-7 desaster that happend to Cambodian civilians. On a funny note, Red Khmers was not a baby of China but Vietnem's, China turned out to be it's adopter cuz Red Khmers teamed up with China to stand against Vietcongs instead of killing Khmers, they didn't want to end up as Laos that was choked off by its dad, and perhaps they also intended to recapture some lost land if they could play the cards right, and I guess China also would like to do a favor back then. Pot Pol was also the US baby. It's unfair for China to assume the responsibility of all.


It doesn't. No need to. It can't be compared to Macau, Singapore, but Sino-Laos/ Sino-Burma borders? Koh kong has access to the sea, and they don't

What that site has that Koh Kong city does not have? May be a white sand beach? But, if you visit the area there are more things that Koh Kong has to offer. A site ready airport (just need to expand it), water front, bridge, manpower. etc...My point is I am against building big a gambling city out of a protected national park. I don't mind if the area near the beach is development, but almost a quarter of the park? It is too much.

Water and sand... which nation doesn't have such stuff? What else can Koh Kong offer to attract customers away from Macau, S'pore, Seoul etc? Maybe it's a lil hard, granded the casinos were set up in PP, what difference do you think PP could offer to customers? But if the casinos were to be built in a national park, that must be awesome. No, it shouldn''t be developed there, I get you point clearly. Apart from that, can you put forward an alternative plan more realistic and feasible? The local Cambodians dont just need beautiful scenery but also good living standard. In short the locals dont need someone else to tell it's wrong or not, they know well of it as well as you do. What they actually need is the solution to the issue at hand, make sure the project both environment friendly and attractive to the investors that investment is guaranteed and the national park is in no harm.

Anyways! nowadays China helping Cambodia to build a new house since it was destroyed during war...................... But don't forget the house key is still control by VN.

That's the problem lying in there. Red Khmer and its opposite in power both killed, tortured and committed crimes against humanity. The thing is that the history is always written by the winner, and Vietcongs and its pro-viet communists revealed and reported to the world the crime carried out by rest of Red Khmers, while the Red Khmers were all gone out of their opposites face and couldn't unearth something maybe more awful any more.

Sorry for the derailment off the topic, can't just resist to go a lil bit far from the topic when seeing some vilification going around here. It's surprising that one is so resentful at Chinese investors and pumps out the mindless rumour that Cambodia is the 2nd Tibet...

Well, sorry again for the mess, I'll leave it at that.

Anyways! nowadays China helping Cambodia to build a new house since it was destroyed during war...................... But don't forget the house key is still control by VN.

If Cambodia want to change the key unless change the door too.... That's why Cambodia political look so messy... its hard to trust... Especially from foreign investors etc...


I don't see any evidence of Vietnam controlling Cambodia, only uneducated people or stupid politicians would think that. And I don't see any Cambodian political mess either.

Yea, Chinese were chicken. When China began to send troops into Vietnam, USSR failed on their words and didnt send one single soldier into China

No need for the the Soviet to send a single troops into China to stop China from getting further into Vietnamese territory because the Chinese did not dare to do it. The border's war existed about a month with heavy casualties on both sides.


Chinese military action didn't work immediately and yet it directly distracted Vietcongs' rapt attention and dispersed their troops away from Cambodia It did not obviously.

However, if there were not China imposing military and political pressure on Vietnam, on what basis do you think Khmers were at that time strong enough alone to knock Vietcongs out of Cambodia even if the USSR was gone? How would Cambodia react if Vietcongs didn't pull out after the USSR collapse?

Vietnam depended on the Soviet for everything in the 70s and 80s because of the west embargo. If the Soviet went bankrupt, it does not have money to support Vietnam any more. Vietnam had nothing and in tern had choice but let Cambodia go after ten years of occupation. Plus, the red viet leaders, just like the red chinese leaders, had come to realize that if the country was not opened to the world, it would become the next Soviet. It made sense that Vietnam chose that way instead of prolong occupation of Cambodia without money from the Soviets.

I also wonder If do you think Vietcongs and the Soviets were a more honest broker nobly keeping the peace in Indochina peninsula than the China that always called in on many nations to oppose Vietnamese occupation of Cambodia in the UN and other international organizations?

No, I would no think so. I am not here to either defend china or vietnam because they are the same - REDs. In international politics, nothing is called honest and "real" friendship. It is all about one's interest. Lots of my Chinese friends working in the embassy have mentioned to me many time.

In no way is it justified in any law clause from any international laws for a nation unilaterally to send their army to interfere in other nation's internal affairs like they do in their own.

In some case, for the best of humanity, it is justified to do that if the leaders of that country are killing their own people. May be it is the difference point of view of a democratic principle and the communist one.

It's a political turmoil. With Cambodia as a sovereign country under the rule of Red Khmers recognised by the UN, it's your Cambodian own business. Internal affairs can only be ressolved by yourselves, or that would only further escalate the conflict like the k-7 desaster that happend to Cambodian civilians.

This was all about the politics of the cold war. The west would not bow to the east. So, the UN was forced to turn a blind eye in Cambodia because they would not want the communism spred to Thailand.

On a funny note, Red Khmers was not a baby of China but Vietnem's, China turned out to be it's adopter cuz Red Khmers teamed up with China to stand against Vietcongs instead of killing Khmers

And the red khmer killed Khmers anyway.

Pot Pol was also the US baby. It's unfair for China to assume the responsibility of all.

It is surprised to hear the US has a communist baby. If that is the case, both US and China should assume the responsibility.

Water and sand... which nation doesn't have such stuff?

But, not many nations have access to the sea.

What else can Koh Kong offer to attract customers away from Macau, S'pore, Seoul etc?

I thought you meant Pyongyang, not Seoul. Can't compared to Seoul.

Maybe it's a lil hard, granded the casinos were set up in PP, what difference do you think PP could offer to customers?

I don't support gambling. So, I don't real care about casinos.

But if the casinos were to be built in a national park, that must be awesome.

That is your opinion. I don't many others would think that is awesome. Too me, it is stupid.

can you put forward an alternative plan more realistic and feasible?

Build it in Koh Kong city and expand it along the waterfront.

The local Cambodians dont just need beautiful scenery but also good living standard. In short the locals dont need someone else to tell it's wrong or not, they know well of it as well as you do.

I am that you know a bit of democracy basic. The locals know that about the project and they made their heard already. I don't have to tell them. In fact, I have learned from them lots.

What they actually need is the solution to the issue at hand, make sure the project both environment friendly and attractive to the investors that investment is guaranteed and the national park is in no harm.

I like this thought. I wonder if there was a study of the mega project there. Is it environmental friendly? Do we know that yet if we don't see any master plan of the project. Why has it hidden?



That's the problem lying in there. Red Khmer and its opposite in power both killed, tortured and committed crimes against humanity. The thing is that the history is always written by the winner, and Vietcongs and its pro-viet communists revealed and reported to the world the crime carried out by rest of Red Khmers, while the Red Khmers were all gone out of their opposites face and couldn't unearth something maybe more awful any more.

Would it be the same as now the chinese is the winner? or would it be the same if the chinese helped the red khmer to kick the red viet out and control the country until now? Would the world know how many Cambodians had been murdered? I bet you the chines its half babies would write a good history.

Sorry for the derailment off the topic, can't just resist to go a lil bit far from the topic when seeing some vilification going around here. It's surprising that one is so resentful at Chinese investors and pumps out the mindless rumour that Cambodia is the 2nd Tibet...

Well, sorry again for the mess, I'll leave it at that.

The 2nd Tibet came up because the liar Fulltimer brought this mindless unthoughtful and bonehead rumours up

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=87491806&postcount=24

"it's a chinese city! strictly for chinese! like they used chinese currency, speak chinese, and have their own chinese government controlling the city!"

and I am trying to tell him not to mislead people. So, you should thank him for this because of his stupid words that you can have opportunity to make Vietnamese look bad in the eyes of many who otherwise would not realized Cambodians here.

I don't care if chinese, US, Vietnam investors or any one else. My point about the national parks is still the same.

I don't see any evidence of Vietnam controlling Cambodia, only uneducated people or stupid politicians would think that. And I don't see any Cambodian political mess either.

Those who have a strong feeling for and support the chinese hatred policy toward vietnam, even though they are not uneducated nor stupid politicians, would think like that too. As you can see that a few of them are here.

Not sure about a "debate forum", but the recent posts is seriously off-topic and might need to divert to "serious topics",

also can people actually provide some reference.

anyway, China is very different to China in the 50s, or even the late 80s. What China did back then, weather it is positive or negative has got nothing to do with what they will do in the future.

and it doesn't matter people like it or not, American glory is over, China will be the new world leader, it is best policy to forget any wrong doing at the past (if exist at all), and be friend with them.


That is what I am concerned. Chinese now is not like the Chinese in the past. It would become the new world leader very soon.

How do we know that she would not do what the old world leaders did? Winner writes history. No one can predict the future. As China grows, she needs more and more resources to maintain the leading role. As we can see they are everywhere, like Sudan for example, for oils. It is same as others. These leaders would do anything, including killing human lives, for their own interests.

I think this thread should be closed to let people cool down a little.

Oh my god... When everyone gonna stop this?

Debate Forum is the serious discussion forum ...

I don't see any evidence of Vietnam controlling Cambodia, only uneducated people or stupid politicians would think that. And I don't see any Cambodian political mess either.

You always keep reaction if people critic your parents government....

Open your eyes and stop dreaming... And spend sometime to the border side listen to people there crying....

Do you know until today Viet come to Cambodia free no need passport..... etc...etc

I don't know how you educate... Why always look our government perfect...

Or are your parents youn?

Kvaaa = Viet meaningful but no meaning in Khmer at all..!!!

Me and some other forumer we support also if our government do thing right... But excepted YOUN or you never and always keep perfect thinking on your.. How to turn Cambodia to a democracy country..

You always keep reaction if people critic your parents government....

Open your eyes and stop dreaming... And spend sometime to the border side listen to people there crying....

Do you know until today Viet come to Cambodia free no need passport..... etc...etc

I don't know how you educate... Why always look our government perfect...

Or are your parents youn?


1. What does people crying at the border have to do with Vietnam controlling Cambodia?
2. This is exactly what I mean about uneducated people. You are an example. You are a college student and should know better. The government policy to allow people from a number of countries, including Vietnam, to enter Cambodia without passport was to spur growth in the tourism industry. Look at the rankings of foreign tourist arrivals in Cambodia and tell me what country has the most tourists coming to Cambodia. The policy worked.
3. Current Cambodian Government is not perfect by any stretch of imagination. Identify to me what government is better for Cambodians in the last 100 years. Compare and contrast any achievements accomplished by each government. You will appreciate the current government a lot better after your research.

1. What does people crying at the border have to do with Vietnam controlling Cambodia?
2. This is exactly what I mean about uneducated people. You are an example. You are a college student and should know better. The government policy to allow people from a number of countries, including Vietnam, to enter Cambodia without passport was to spur growth in the tourism industry. Look at the rankings of foreign tourist arrivals in Cambodia and tell me what country has the most tourists coming to Cambodia. The policy worked.
3. Current Cambodian Government is not perfect by any stretch of imagination. Identify to me what government is better for Cambodians in the last 100 years. Compare and contrast any achievements accomplished by each government. You will appreciate the current government a lot better after your research.

1) Viet took their land, the lands that they did farm for long ago.
2) to me you are just one of the communist educated...
3) our current government better than other..! Holly shit..! The best is Thai government
Thai had flood... Red vs yellow... Muslim... Terrorist.... But Thai economic still keep growing. .. Who care your government..?

Hehe!!!! Tell your government to make announcement to SEasia leader who coming soon to Cambodia for meeting please don't were much gold / bring much moneys or they will be rob to die can't back home.... Your good government busy with corruption no time to care about safety in p-penh and the whole country..

Remember,, and wait and see your government allowed this Chinese Company to cut a lot tree destroying this national park.... Than what will happen next????

1) Viet took their land, the lands that they did farm for long ago.
2) to me you are just one of the communist educated...
3) our current government better than other..! Holly shit..! The best is Thai government
Thai had flood... Red vs yellow... Muslim... Terrorist.... But Thai economic still keep growing. .. Who care your government..?

Hehe!!!! Tell your government to make announcement to SEasia leader who coming soon to Cambodia for meeting please don't were much gold / bring much moneys or they will be rob to die can't back home.... Your good government busy with corruption no time to care about safety in p-penh and the whole country..

Remember,, and wait and see your government allowed this Chinese Company to cut a lot tree destroying this national park.... Than what will happen next????

You don't even understand my points!!