It seems like there is no US city under the microscope as is your own New York. We analyze it to death as we try to understand it.

The rest of us should be faced with the same scrutiny.

So.... if New York is truly different and, thus are New Yorkers, with some awfully interesting perspectives and a great deal of ability (and no fear) to articulate I thought I’d give this one a try, turn the tables so to speak:

As a NEW YORKER, what are your perspectives on the following cities (a cross section of the country; other cities are just as appropraite):

Boston
Phila
DC
Chicago
Atlanta
Miami
Houston
Seattle
SF
LA

I’d love to read what you think when you put us under the microscope! Which of these cities, as a New Yorker could you live in? Which as a New Yorker has something to offer you as a visitor? Which offers you something that you might not find in NYC? THANX

I'm not from New York, but I can imagine they think of them all as small towns :lol:

BOSTON- Great city. The charles river in Winter and Autumn is very pretty I love the tobin bridge. Boston Commons is kind of boring and plain, its no central park. I really love the back bay area. I think it is the perfect (looking) urban residential neighborhood. Too bad we only have Carrol gardens, and Cobble Hill, and Brooklyn Heights, and Park Slope. sheesh.. its a great sports town though, I love the Boston traditions, the accents are horrible, they cant drive, and it's very clean. I think the modern architecture in boston is dull amd run-of-the mill, but the old architecture is outstanding.

Philadelphia.... - I love philly, its such a cool city, it reminds me most of nyc, just smaller.. Love: rittenhouse square, Fitler Square, city hall, Italian Market, Elfreths Alley, Society Hill, Fairmount. These are amazing little nooks of this city. I think the skyline is attractive, I love philly cheese steaks, Fairmount park is beautiful. The sports here is alive, and kicking, and I think philly has some very avid, and loyal fans.. so i can respect that.

Houston- Who cares?


D.C.- DONT HAVE MUCH OF AN OPINION .. been there a few times, its got plenty to see and do but thats all I could really say, nothing I've seen or done there has warranted any kind of opinion good or bad. It isn't dull or anything just does not bring up any emotions at all.

Chicago- I love chicago almost as much as nyc, chicago is an amazing town, it's a good thing i have family there , so i visit often, i dont understand theyre eating habits,great sports town, the best actually.. skyline is amazing, at night especially, the people are kinda boring, but laid back and i like that.


Miami- is so much fun. Collins avenue, Bayside, the dog races, i love it. I always have fun in Miami and there has never been a dull moment. I would never live there, but i would not mind visiting once every two years. The skyline is small now, but its gonna change dramatically soon, people are nice, lively, ATTRACTIVE.

Atlanta - See Houston.

Seattle- Love nirvana, the whole music scene. I grew up with that particular scene in Brooklyn, that died . Seattle is beautiful though, the setting, the skyline, Mt. Raineer poking his out over the city is enchanting to say the least. Other than that I do not have much else to say.

San Francisco- I like it, alot, i love everything about san francisco, i love the weather, i love the setting, i love the hills, and the architecture, i love mission district, i love the castro, i wish i can go there and spend time there, ive been there once on a day trip, it was not enough time, but i think the place is definetly suitable for the title:america's favoritie city

LA- As a whole, its not for me. Individual trends, areas within the city ( & out), and attractions are something I could certainly get used to. Though I don't believe I've ever ventured into West LA it looks about as dense and urban as a city should be. There are great beaches and the landscape is superb. I won't deny it any longer, you make the view better from up here. So with that, I could never call it home, but I would go back.

edit spam.

Well said nygirl. Agree with everything.

:)

Miami is a cool spot...I got some family there...though somethings about it remind me too much of ny..but you can't beat the weather at all

Whatcha mean you don't understand our eating habits? 'Cause we like real pizza?

;)

Boston: Never Been, Want to go!

Philly: Driven through, also want to go!

DC: gorgeous buildings, horrific crime. Love to visit, too conservative and political to live.

Chicago: Big "town" compared to New York. But a wonderful town. Truly the second best city in America (after New York).

Atlanta: Some gorgeous, fun, and interesting neighborhoods. Super gay friendly in Midtown/Va Highlands areas. Very racially divided in the suburbs. Twenty miles out of the city, and people still fly the rebel flags. Very redneck in the north mountains. Traffic is horrendous, and people in the suburbs do not support the subway system. A bleak future with this much opposition.

Miami: Hot city! Hot people! Crazy high rises are going up. The city is experiencing a skyscraper BOOM! Love Miami to live, work, or hang.

Houston: Gross all around. Lacks a defining city. Very traffic, suburban based. A mess. Growing fast, but not the right way. A wannabe Atlanta, a wannabe Chicago, a wannabe New York. Just not my style. Plus, c'mon, it's in Texas, home of Bush. How good could it be? haha...j/k. Seriously though, it's not a city I like.

Seattle: Beautiful green all around, wonderful views. Nice skyline, nice central city. I love the scene, both work-based and social. Great place to live and work.

San Fran: My third fav US city. Stunning city with gorgeous views. Very dense, the only thing that freaks me is the earthquakes! Very open, very diverse, a world classic.

LA: I have a love/hate thing with LA. I love the weather, love the beaches, love the Beverly Hills thing, West Hollywood area, and Venice Beach, Santa Monica area. Very pretty in and around LA. But the traffic and sprawl I hate! Lacks a dense, real central city still.

Chicago: Big "town" compared to New York.

That is exactly what my Grandfather from New York said when he moved to Chicago :)

Boston: Been there a few times, and definately a nice experience. When I think of Boston, I think of rich history, but rough winters. New York and Boston may have this love-hate relationship, and consider eachother their "arch-nemesis", especially in sports, but we have this mostly silent respect for eachother. I also think of lots of Irish when I think of Boston.

Philly: Walked through it once, and has a pretty decent skyline and downtown area. There's not much I think of this place, probably because the one time I was there was a spur-of-the-moment road trip and the walk was in the middle of the night on a weekday.

DC: Went there when I was 13 for a school trip, but I only did the tourist thing. I heard nothing but bad things about the residential areas, most being a high crime rate, but the fact that it's our nation's capital and has some amazing monuments make a trip here definately worth it.

Chicago: Been there once about 2 1/2 years ago when I finished boot camp, and I absolutely loved it. I agree with jjbradleynyc that it's the second-best city in the country. Awesome skyline that includes John Hancock, Aon Center, and of course the king himself, Sears. Deep-dish pizza, a love for their sports teams, overall a wonderful city.

Atlanta: Been there a few times, unfortunately each time was just for a layover at Hartsfield International. I got to see the city from the air at night, and it looked gorgeous. When I think of ATL I think of the capital of the "Dirty South". Pretty big city, but weather just a little too hot for my tastes. Would like to see again at least once.

Miami: Visited once when I was 16, so I didn't get to enjoy it as much as I wanted to. Of all the cities in the US I've been to, this is one I would definately like to re-visit now that I'm 21. The one time I was there I spent some time in my friend's uncle's condo overlooking the Bay of Biscane and the downtown area, and it was truly beautiful. Looks like a lot of fun, I think of clubs, beaches, and gorgeous latinas.

Houston: Spent an hour in George Bush International, that's about it. My parents lived there for about a year before I was born and they apparently weren't crazy about it, cause they moved back to NY. I haven't heard too many good things about this place, but it looks like it has decent size. Not much else I can say about it though.

Seattle: When I think of Seattle I think of the cold, gloomy pacific-northwest first. But I also think of the Space Needle, Coffee capital of the nation, and hippies. I got a friend at work from Seattle, and it seems like a city worth at least one visit.

San Fran: I think of gays first, and maybe it doesn't deserve that, but I'm sorry. I haven't been west of Chicago, so here's another place I can only go on from what I've heard. Looks like a big city from what I see, but doesn't look like my kind of place to live.

LA: As much as I would love to see the west coast, LA seems like another big city I probably wouldn't enjoy living in. However that's not to say I wouldn't want to go there at least once. LA looks like an amazing city, and I think "NY of the west" in terms of size. I think tons of different neighboorhoods and cultures (rich, fake hollywood, and real, gritty south-central), and it's large mexican population.

If I would rate the citys other than NY that I've been to, it would go like this:

1) Chicago
2) Miami
3) Boston
4) Philly
5) DC

And citys I haven't been to (or just in the airports) but I would love to see, it would go like:

1) Atlanta
2) LA
3) Seattle
4) San Fran
5) Houston

Boston: RED SOX SUCK NUT but other than tht very nice
Philly: Love to visit
DC: place for a bussiness trip or 4th grade sight seeing tour
Chi-town: our slightly smaller twin
Atl:BRAVES SUCK
Miami: where we move the day we turn 60
Houston: nuthin but cowboys n' republicans
Seattle: Honestly until I moved here I thought it was a state
SF: Awesome stoners and liberals yes
LA: I belive these two cities have a mutual hate and distrust for each other

More wonderful posting from moi:

D.C.- DONT HAVE MUCH OF AN OPINION .. been there a few times, doesnt float my boat.

Chicago- I love chicago almost as much as nyc, chicago is an amazing town, it's a good thing i have family there , so i visit often, i dont understand theyre eating habits,great sports town, the best actually.. skyline is amazing, at night especially, the people are kinda boring, but laid back and i like that.


^ 1) all of you guys WAY underestimate Washington DC. It's actually a very nice town. Somebody said it's conservative, but in actuality it voted 90% for Kerry.

2) Chicago's people are boring? That's a new one for me

Boston" Eclictic miny london, unique for America, nice and quanit.
Phila: One of the most underappreciated cities in America. Needs to get an aditude
DC:Needs some more population, needs more grand visions, edifices and a more imperial flavour.
Chicago: Smooth transtion from MidWestern brawnny to swav globalized city, maybe lost too much midwest.
Atlanta: Sprawl, a city ruled by suburbs.
Miami: At one time patheticly out done in terms of cleanslyness by South Beach but now rapidly turning around, a shocker for those who remember it in the 80's.
Houston: I have only been once, still growing and has the possibility to join NY, CHI, LA as a great, large American city. Needs more idenity though.
Seattle: Grunge and greenpeace, also shut down the WTO, good for those who seek that type of life, not exactly my style however.
SF: Suberb example of a city. Great vistas and overall low vehicular dependence.
LA: Some cities have roads, in this case, roads have a city. Needs to change to become "urban".

All of these cities have suffered to some degree by white flight and urban decay. Hopefully this can be reversed.

Chicago: Smooth transtion from MidWestern brawnny to swav globalized city, maybe lost too much midwest.

Tell me about it...

Not to stir controversy, but why are we asking New Yorkers their views on US cities? It's not like they're a judge and jury.

I can get up and move to NYC (and afford it) in 2 seconds. Does that somehow mean my opinion will be more important, then? My entire Dad's side of the family lives in NYC, and they don't know SHIT about other cities

Being from Chicago, I've always felt a connection with NYC. Sometimes I love it, and sometimes I hate it.

Los Angeles is a "Big Town". I think Chicago is more than just a big town. It's the Second City.

http://www.cae.wisc.edu/~murali/images/Chicago%20trip%202-%20murali's%20cam/downtown%20chicago%203.JPG http://www.bluewillow.org/gallery/albums/album28/Chicago_South.jpg
http://www.toomuchblue.com/bigfiles/albums/FERS-Views/DSC00817.jpg
http://www.toomuchblue.com/bigfiles/albums/FERS-Views/DSC00816.jpg

http://www.c1f.net/old/cfallin.org/images/chicago/north-big.jpg
http://www.c1f.net/old/cfallin.org/images/chicago/south2-big.jpg
http://www.neotool.com/training/hl7/hl7btbab/open/sessions/200309/Chicago_Opt_Pics/sailinglakemi.jpg
http://www.steinke.us/sailing/P8240003big.JPG
http://hex.oucs.ox.ac.uk/~rejs/photos/A40/full/102canon/img_0261.jpg
http://hex.oucs.ox.ac.uk/~rejs/photos/A40/full/102canon/img_0267.jpg
http://hex.oucs.ox.ac.uk/~rejs/photos/A40/full/102canon/img_0270.jpg
http://hex.oucs.ox.ac.uk/~rejs/photos/A40/full/102canon/img_0264.jpg
http://thomonthenet.com/Photos/Chicago2003_13015.jpg
http://www.photo.net/philg/digiphotos/200206-chi-wisc-iowa/chicago-downtown-2.half.jpg
http://thecap.org/pictures/2002/Oct%20-%20Chicago/downtown%20chicago.jpg?orig

http://www.ee.ucla.edu/~somdeb/images/Chicago/chicago0032.JPG
http://www.kheris.net/images/air_show/ohio_beach.jpg
http://www.criminology.fsu.edu/crimtheory/images/97chicago2.jpg

http://www.state.il.us/ltgov/ircc/images/100_0942.jpg
http://hex.oucs.ox.ac.uk/~rejs/photos/A40/full/102canon/img_0288.jpg http://www.beznosov.net/konstantin/images/chicago-downtown-from-the-lake.gif
http://www.mkaz.com/snapshots/summer2002/Images/8.jpg
http://kea.cs.uni-magdeburg.de/thorhaue/travel97/Film04/04-18.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/westpascorunners/SNOWLAKE.JPG
http://porter.csres.utexas.edu/album/Cityscapes_2/20020723_04dx012_From_Sears_Tower_[crop].jpg
http://porter.csres.utexas.edu/album/Cityscapes_2/20020723_04dx010_From_Sears_Tower_[crop].jpg
http://hex.oucs.ox.ac.uk/~rejs/photos/A40/full/102canon/img_0252.jpg

Chicagogeorge -- yeah, but this thread is about what new yorkers think, not what people from Chicago think. and i'm sure most of us have seen those pictures of chicago (i know I do, every time I look ot the window). But the fact remains that many people from new york do view every US city other than their own as a large town, and in many respects, I don't fault them for that, as outside the 'big three' i sort of have that attitude as well, I remember going to Dallas for the first time and thinking, is this it? So yeah, I grew up with my NY relatives referring to Chicago as "a nice town" in a funny New York sort of way, and personally, well, never felt any need to be defensive about it, because seriously, all you have to do is look at NY and you can see why :) Personally, that I don't live in the biggest city with 'everything' doesn't really bother me, I like my little 'town', and the sort of defensive 'yeah but' responses to what new yorkers think of your city just cements the whole second city imagine IMO. Personally, I am sort of sad that this thread turned into that, because I do like the cross cultural US dialogue, people shouldn't be barraged when asked what they think, and then they respond. It would be like if I were asked of my opinions of say, Minneapolis, and when I mentioned what they were, was barraged with 'no your wrong, you aren't to have that opinion and here are so many huge of pictures why of why that I may perhaps crash your computer'. Uh that is why it is an OPINION.

I'm not even really sure what you are upset about, most NY'ers on this thread have been very complimentary to our fair city.

Here are a few more that Goonsta posted :

http://www.tricker.net/albums/2002/8-18-2002a/pic00035.jpg
http://www.tricker.net/albums/2002/8-18-2002b/pic00052.jpg
http://www.angkor.com/2bangkok/chicagobyair.jpg
http://homepages.cae.wisc.edu/~ranjith/chicago%20wesite/birds_eye_view9.jpg
http://www.philipmalenfant.com/chi2039
http://www.philipmalenfant.com/chi1551
http://www.philipmalenfant.com/chi1530
http://www.philipmalenfant.com/chi1500
http://www.philipmalenfant.com/chi1536
http://www.philipmalenfant.com/chi1540
http://www.philipmalenfant.com/chi1511
http://www.philipmalenfant.com/chi1526
http://www.philipmalenfant.com/chi1519
http://www.philipmalenfant.com/chi1548

- Boston, been their three times, I love it. Went to Fenway and I have never been so amazed. Subways were clean and felt very safe.
- Philly, Been their I can't count how many times. Very fun! Mostly hang out around south street. The city is really dirty though. Not in the tourist areas but areas like around south street and the residential areas. They need to look into their trash program or something. Subways seem rather safe. Nice historic district also
- DC, Driven through 100 times only visited once. Its very spread out and the traffic sucks! I would love to go again though because I was rushed. Georgetown was great.
- Chicago, Never been but want to go really bad! I'm a die hard Cubs fan. This city is number 1 on my list for a must visit.
- Atlanta, Yuck! I don't like this city to much. The skyline is awesome but the city itself is scary. Don't go on the subway, no telling where u might end up! Underground Atlanta is a total joke, its a crappy mall with sorry stores. The Coke museum was probably the only thing I like about Atlanta except for Turner Field. Other than that, stay away.
- Miami, Never been but I would like to go
- Houston, never been but would like to go
- San Fran, been once and love it. Great skyline and alot of culture. Probably the third coolest city in the US!
- LA, downtown sucks. The beaches, Beverly Hills etc. are pretty cool. Thats about it. Very nice area though. Enjoyed it alot.
- Seattle, Never been, seems really nice though.

Not to stir controversy, but why are we asking New Yorkers their views on US cities? It's not like they're a judge and jury.

I can get up and move to NYC (and afford it) in 2 seconds. Does that somehow mean my opinion will be more important, then? My entire Dad's side of the family lives in NYC, and they don't know SHIT about other cities

well they don't represent everyone in new york, next time look for some individuals mayyne

on a side note..

in no way in hell can I afford to get out to chi at this moment...and I would really love to (i've say this numerous times in the chi forum)..well all in due time

- Atlanta, Yuck!...Don't go on the subway, no telling where u might end up!

...Huhwut?

Chicagogeorge -- yeah, but this thread is about what new yorkers think, not what people from Chicago think. and i'm sure most of us have seen those pictures of chicago (i know I do, every time I look ot the window). But the fact remains that many people from new york do view every US city other than their own as a large town, and in many respects, I don't fault them for that, as outside the 'big three' i sort of have that attitude as well, I remember going to Dallas for the first time and thinking, is this it? So yeah, I grew up with my NY relatives referring to Chicago as "a nice town" in a funny New York sort of way, and personally, well, never felt any need to be defensive about it, because seriously, all you have to do is look at NY and you can see why :) Personally, that I don't live in the biggest city with 'everything' doesn't really bother me, I like my little 'town', and the sort of defensive 'yeah but' responses to what new yorkers think of your city just cements the whole second city imagine IMO. Personally, I am sort of sad that this thread turned into that, because I do like the cross cultural US dialogue, people shouldn't be barraged when asked what they think, and then they respond. It would be like if I were asked of my opinions of say, Minneapolis, and when I mentioned what they were, was barraged with 'no your wrong, you aren't to have that opinion and here are so many huge of pictures why of why that I may perhaps crash your computer'. Uh that is why it is an OPINION.

I'm not even really sure what you are upset about, most NY'ers on this thread have been very complimentary to our fair city.

Who's upset?
Just because I posted some nice picks of the windy city? Too many people just don't know Chicago. Whats wrong with sharing pics. Not everone surfs other threads outside their own city thread. I mean I love NYC, and even L.A. to has many good merits. I just think IMHO, that NYC and Chicago have much in common. NYC will always be the big apple, just as Chicago will always be the second city(in so many respects). I want to hear what New Yorkers think of our city, maybe they have the wrong impression? Maybe they have the right impression? Who knows? I wouldn't mind New Yorkers posting beautiful pics of their city, places I may not be familiar with being an outsider, on the Chicago forum. I welcome that.
As for you worrying about your computer crashing with me posting large jpgs, then get a new computer, What can I tell you. People post large pics all over this forum. :)

guys don't hijack this thread to promote your city ;)
otherwise this thread made me remember a map by an artist on how New Yorkers view the US.
Long Island is bigger than Florida, which is closer to Staten Island than Chicago :D
And Hollywood is a state of its own! :D
If only I could find it again, or maybe some of you might know it?

3tmk – precisely what I was saying. Thread hijacking like that makes us look bad ;)

There was a funny map of the US published awhile back in the New Yorker indicating a similar insular worldview. I've also seen ones published for California.

Who's upset?
Just because I posted some nice picks of the windy city? Too many people just don't know Chicago. Whats wrong with sharing pics. Not everone surfs other threads outside their own city thread. I mean I love NYC, and even L.A. to has many good merits. I just think IMHO, that NYC and Chicago have much in common. NYC will always be the big apple, just as Chicago will always be the second city(in so many respects). I want to hear what New Yorkers think of our city, maybe they have the wrong impression? Maybe they have the right impression? Who knows? I wouldn't mind New Yorkers posting beautiful pics of their city, places I may not be familiar with being an outsider, on the Chicago forum. I welcome that.
As for you worrying about your computer crashing with me posting large jpgs, then get a new computer, What can I tell you. People post large pics all over this forum. :)

^honestly, dude, why on earth are you trying to do that? Who cares what some people in NY think about Chicago? Not at all getting it...

3tmk – precisely what I was saying. Thread hijacking like that makes us look bad ;)

There was a funny map of the US published awhile back in the New Yorker indicating a similar insular worldview. I've also seen ones published for California.

the New Yorker's view of the world:
http://tinypic.com/180n5d

yes, that is exactly the map I was thinking of.

Ok, after reading only 2 post that talked about how the red sox suk, i really do need to reply. Red Sox do not suk. They in fact, beat the yankees, a team with the highest payroll and now is getting even higher, and humiliate them. I mean what team with such payroll, such great player, lose a 3-0 lead to a 2nd rate Red Sox team. Red Sox do not buy their players. Yankees have already ruin baseball with their money which pulls many of baseballs great athlete to New York and left the rest with almost nothing. It is almost becoming the team with the most money will win. Is that really what baseball is about.

^IMO Baseball sucks altogether, so there's nothing to fight about ;)

well seriously, everyone knows that the Yankees are the real evil empire. :cheers:

coming from a red sox fan of course

This is a great thread. Before I left New York, I used to have a lot of the everything else is a small town attitude for many irrational reasons (well sometimes they were rational for the fact that compared to New York, everything else IS a small town). And it's been a pleasing experience for me to go all the way out west and still profess my love of NY but now become equipped with the knowledge that despite being small towns comparatively, there are so many cool places out there. Of course, I still say "Dammit I can't get a decent bagel or I can't get a decent hot dog" and I enjoy touting the NY is the world persona as the annoying foil to many of my California friends.

So what do I think of other cities?

1. Boston: In the past, I used to hate the place for being all Celtics and all Red Sox and (in my misinformed and ignorant youth) all white and snooty. But after going to school in New England for 8 years of my life, I decided that I love Boston. The downtown is pleasingly chaotic, and yet clean. It's dense and yet small. It has all those colleges around it which make the city feel young and vibrant. It also has a swagger and pride in itself as a city that I like to see.

2. Chicago: I have never been to Chicago. I also held a low opinion of Chicago in my misinformed youth simply because it's got this second city thing going. I always thought it had an inferiority complex until I realized that many people in NY had a superiority complex (but of course we're superior! :)). The skyline is beautiful and from what I've heard it has that same swagger and unapologetic pride that I like so much.

3. Philadelphia: Beautiful city. Down and dirty. Gritty and urban. Like Boston, it's small and compact, but definitely dense. I've only been there a few times, but I like its scale and the people are great.

4. DC: Low. At first it looks flat. When I visited there, I thought the night spots at Adams Morgan and Dupont Circle were very Friends yuppie like. A lot of young urban professionals in khakis and loafers. I thought it was sterile in that regard. I was also annoyed that I wasn't let into a club just because I was wearing jeans. In my experience in NY clubs and lounges, even the ones that have a "dress code," if you carried "the attitude" they'd let you in. But in DC, they actually care what demographic you look like you belong in. Despite this, I think it's a beautiful city. Some of the architecture strikes me as Parisian, especially since there are height restrictions and because the streets are arranged the way they are.

5. Atlanta: I think of 2 things. Suburban sprawl and Coke. Neither of which I'm a big fan of.

6. Houston: I think of 2 things. Suburban sprawl and President Bush. Neither of which I'm a big fan of.

7. Miami: What a fun place! So lively! So stylish! So good looking! Art Deco is great! Cuban food rocks! I love Miami!

8. SF: If there's any place in the west I would like to live in, it's SF. SF is such a cultured city. Its buildings are beautiful. It's people are great and friendly. It has such a good sense of itself, in a proud way-- unapologetic and making no excuses. It reminds me of a mini-NY in California.

9. LA: Been here a few times and each time I go here, I dislike it even more. There's just nothing in LA that I find redeeming. I just can't get over my NY biases here. I don't like the social scene, I don't like the seen and be seen scene (which NY has but not in such a plastic way). At least the snobs in NY know how to be snobs. In LA, I don't know. It's all aesthetics but no attitude. And the attitude here is highly aesthetic. I don't know if I'm making sense.

Who's upset?
Just because I posted some nice picks of the windy city? Too many people just don't know Chicago. Whats wrong with sharing pics. ...
As for you worrying about your computer crashing with me posting large jpgs, then get a new computer, What can I tell you. People post large pics all over this forum. :)

The other Chicago posters are right to be embarrassed by guys like you.
The callousness of your comment about crashing other computers speaks for itself.
And your innocent "what's wrong with sharing pics" is just plain dishonest.
You're trying to shout down anyone's independent opinion of your home place.
I grew up near Chicago and am pretty familiar with some of it, and I also lived in New York for many years. Characters like you can never get what makes New York so appealing, and so you keep bullying others into seeing things your way. A lot of Chicago posters all over this site are rudely defensive, and do seem to suffer an inferiority complex, and that says worlds about their city's environment.
Overreaching and undeserving.

The other Chicago posters are right to be embarrassed by guys like you.
The callousness of your comment about crashing other computers speaks for itself.
And your innocent "what's wrong with sharing pics" is just plain dishonest.
You're trying to shout down anyone's independent opinion of your home place.
I grew up near Chicago and am pretty familiar with some of it, and I also lived in New York for many years. Characters like you can never get what makes New York so appealing, and so you keep bullying others into seeing things your way. A lot of Chicago posters all over this site are rudely defensive, and do seem to suffer an inferiority complex, and that says worlds about their city's environment.
Overreaching and undeserving.

whyme, that sounds a bit hypocritical. I'm not sure how you can criticise chicagogeorge's observations when you yourself call Chicago posters rudely defensive, possessed of an inferiority complex from a city with an overreaching and undeserving environment. That's pretty tough talk.

I don't know about others, whyme, but I happen to be a Chicagoan who thinks New York is a FABULOUS place. I also am a Chicagoan who personally finds no city can match Chicago for me. I've been to New York many, many times and I have always enjoyed it immensely. I have never returned to Chicago thinking I was coming home to a lesser city. And I don't think I'm taking anything away from the Big Apple to say that the Windy City is not in its shaddow, that Chicago is perfectly happy being Chicago.

Chicago is a city now undergoing a through transformation that is turning it into one of the world's greatest urban environments. That hardly makes us defensive; nor does it prevent us from appreciating the likes of New York, San Francisco, and other great American cities. In fact, it makes it easier to do so. We are more than happy with what is happening in Chicago to feel competiive with other cities. Just like New Yorkers are rightfully more than happy with their city's urban pleasures that they would feel no need to feel competiive either.

BTW, my expereince with New York posters and New Yorkers in general has been exceedingly positive. I actually find New Yorkers to be very accepting of other cigties and people who enjoy urban experiences far beyond Manhattan. I've had an opportunity to talk to a number of New Yorkers who have traveled to Chicago and have had some truly enjoyable convesatons with them about the affinity between our two cities.

The other Chicago posters are right to be embarrassed by guys like you.
The callousness of your comment about crashing other computers speaks for itself.
And your innocent "what's wrong with sharing pics" is just plain dishonest.
You're trying to shout down anyone's independent opinion of your home place.
I grew up near Chicago and am pretty familiar with some of it, and I also lived in New York for many years. Characters like you can never get what makes New York so appealing, and so you keep bullying others into seeing things your way. A lot of Chicago posters all over this site are rudely defensive, and do seem to suffer an inferiority complex, and that says worlds about their city's environment.
Overreaching and undeserving.

^Dude, you started this paragraph making a good point and ended it bashing Chicago. Maybe that says something about the insecurity of your city's environment.

Bless you, Chicagoans. Predictability and tedious consistency. Your strength and your failure. That's all, folks.

Bless you, Chicagoans. Predictability and tedious consistency. Your strength and your failure. That's all, folks.

Oh yes, painting an entire population with such a broad brush is so much more classy. C'mon now. Nobody enjoys having their entire city brushed off, regardless of how boorish some of the residents can be. At least I have enough sense not to judge all new yorkers based on you. :bash:

Has this thread been hijacked or not?
Any New Yorkers left out there?

whyme - I'm sure there are, you guys are a tough lot, surely you're not going to let a few upstart chicagoans upstage your chance to shine ... or not.

BTW, I love new york, and grew up having lots of relatives from there. Hence why I started reading the thread, and was just as disgusted as the next person when it became a stupid chicago pissing match.

Can we chill with the pictures, george?

Bless you, Chicagoans. Predictability and tedious consistency. Your strength and your failure. That's all, folks.

^Nice try. Nobody buys it

Bless you, Chicagoans. Predictability and tedious consistency. Your strength and your failure. That's all, folks.

whyme, are you seriously suggesting that Chicagoans are all the same in their thought processes? Do you really see us as clones? Are you talking about posters here or the 9,000,000 of us in the metro area?

are we all the same? do you really believe that we are insecure about our city? do you really believe that we see ourselves in the shaddow of New York (or any city, for that matter)? Do you really believe that the vast majority don't respect other cities and enjoy what they have to offer?

what exactly is it that makes you dislike Chicago and Chicagoans so much? I can't imagine having such feelings about any city....or its residents. still, I would be interested in knowing what we do to make you so upset.

Brillmeister,

About the Atlanta subways, I got on the wrong one twice and ended up in the projects. I felt very out of place everytime I was on the subway. I'll just leave it at that not to make anyone mad.

This thread had such promise, but ended up in utter shambles... It's too bad.

If any New Yorkers are willing to resuscitate this discussion and want to share their opinions of other cities, please do. I'd be interested in hearing them...

Yes, please carry on. If any one of our locals gets out of line again I'll take care of 'em for ya ;)

I don't think New Yorkers are as provincial (in a cosmo way, of course) as they used to be.

And by the way, as a native Chicagoan now living in Seoul, after a stint in Tokyo, I can say that these discussions are all relative.

By East Asian standards even New York doesn't seem that huge and frantic. Seoul has more people crammed into a smaller space and a streetlife that blows all of America out of the water. And whenever I return to Chicago, I do feel like its a big wonderful town. A toddlin town at that.

The problem with us Chicagoans is that we know we are from the greatest city in the world and nobody else seems to know that but us. And New Yorkers have the gall to feel the same way. Go figure.

^^^Is any part of Seoul denser than Manhattan (67,000 pp/sm)?

well, its about 11 million people crowded in an area smaller than NYC

^^^Is any part of Seoul denser than Manhattan (67,000 pp/sm)?

I believe the whole city is somewhere like 80,000, not sure the exact figures though. Seoul's suburbs are as dense as much of Manhattan.

Seoul is 234 square miles, roughly 12,000,000 population, so that comes out to about 51,000 per square miles. But I believe the total area of Seoul includes lots of mountains. And as I said, even the suburbs are hyper dense, there just isn't enough land on this peninsula.

here is a list from the US Census (1992) showing the urbanized (contiguaos built-up) areas of the largest cities
pop, size (sq.miles), and density in that area

1 Tokyo-Yokohama 27,245,000 1,089 25,018
2 Mexico City 20,899,000 522 40,036
3 Sao Paulo 18,701,000 451 41,466
4 Seoul 16,792,000 342 49,099
5 New York 14,625,000 1,274 11,480

My view of any American city: if your city's skyline does not flat out suck, it still definitely does not impress me. Except Chicago. I mean, is their skyline, like, bigger than ours? Smaller? Hard to tell... Blasphemy, in either case, Chicago is blasphemy against New York!
No seriously, I like many cities across the place, and as of Chicago, I've never even been to the place.

you should go sometime. Avoid August and winter.

Definitely avoid winter, if you're from the east or mid-atlantic, the humidity won't be that bad in Aug.

I don't know why so many people say nightlife in some other places blows America out of the water, like Seoul. As far as venues are concerned, America's are pretty good, and the women are pretty good, there are some nice spots in Europe, and Asia, but I don't know about blowing it out of the water. Having a lot of people help, but I hope that amount of people on the street isn't the only criteria that these nightlife rankings are based off of.

I lived in NY, and I definitely can say that the attitude that other cities are other big towns was definitely how I felt. Now that I'm out I'm a bit better about it. I feel the same way about Boston, Chi, and Philly as other New Yorkers have felt but I can understand why some Chicagoans are pissed. It's a really great town, I don't think it's the best city like some of them do, but it deserves more credit. So with people wanting more credit it they look insecure sometimes.

But I can see what another person was saying about not caring what New Yorkers think, b/c I really don't like how New Yorkers in general are perceived to be better in some ways then others, and some from NY run with it, it really doesn't matter. Pride is good, but it shouldn't change how others would feel about theirselves or their city. It should be a normal person from a moderate sized town, b/c they won't have the small town perspective and they won't have the every other city is a large town perspective either.

And I also agree with the guy that said DC is underrated. It got itself into problems, but it's getting better. The crime isn't as bad anymore but it's still urban, DT is getting nicer, it's nightlife is underrated, and I think DC has probably one of the most unified black populations of of the big cities. It definitely has a feel, though and I like it.

Miami is a great town, it's pretty run down in areas too, but the weather and the nightlife is great and to know it's gonna get a lot better by the end of the decade is great to know.

LA, I don't know, having been a few times, I didn't know what to think, but it's not that hard to acclimate too. I don't like the lack of density but there's a lot of things to do which make up. They need better public transportation though. SF is a great town, has a very distinctive feel too.

Boston: A great city in its own right that needs to lose the gigantic chip on its shoulder. STOP COMPARING YOURSELF TO NYC!!! NYC is over 15 times larger than Boston!

Phila: The humbler, low key version of Boston

DC: The city that takes all of our money, with all our problems without many of the same benefits.

Chicago: The only city that can really compare with NYC in terms of urbanity, public transport, etc.

Atlanta: This is a city? Aside from a couple of amazingly cool buildings in DT, seems like one giant suburb.

Miami: See Atlanta

Houston: See Miami

LA: See Houston

SF: The only California city that can compare to NYC in terms of urbanness, diversity. A little too sprawled, but much better than its horrific southern cousin, LA.

Seattle: You know what, I don't really have an opinion of this city. You do not hear about it enough

Some people argue with them selves.

Complaining how L.A has horrible traffic(that's as dense as it can get, you just happen to experience it in a car), yet the lack of density is a problem?
Yes I agree about downtown L.A- it kind of sucks but once you actually dive inside it can be alot fun. I prefer living in a city with room, on the other hand downtown area should be more populated with a newlook skyline, not just offices and parking lofts.

Thats just me but I couldnt stand living like ants.
Its not like I hate New York. I enjoyed it alot actually since it's different.

Philly and Boston are like NIGHT and DAY. Black and White. Murder and Salvation. They are different sizes, and differently layed out. Totally different Demographics. Please don't make this comparison unless you talk about Center Cities. That makes me nauseous.

This thread had such promise, but ended up in utter shambles... It's too bad.

If any New Yorkers are willing to resuscitate this discussion and want to share their opinions of other cities, please do. I'd be interested in hearing them...
The forum has been a bit slow lately since theres not much to talk about so now's about that time to take your offer. I hope others contribute...

Boston - I like Boston, I find this whole rivalry in sports amusing. Boston to me seems like a very classy city. I've never been but I'd like to go one day as I've heard nothing but good things. Also, from what I've seen in threads, it looks damn attractive.

Philly - I enjoyed my stay in this city which I thought had this whole historic and classic feel to it with all the narrow coble stoned streets and rowhouses. Center city looked alot like parts of ny so I kinda felt at home. Good city dispite all the crime. Phillys relationship with Camdon seemed very similar to ours with newark.

Pittsburgh - I love this city even though I've never visited. Amazing skyline for such a small place! I like how it's trying really hard to improve and return to it's glorious past. It's gritty industrial neighborhoods full of brick warehouses are what get to me. I need to visit soon. I hate how it continues to lose people though. I'll admit it's hard for me to view it as a city with it's small population.

DC - DC for some reason just doesn't generate much interest in me. It looks nice with great historic buildings and monuments but that's about it. Kinda felt like a museum...

Chicago - I've always seen Chicago as the second city. Its without a doubt the city that offers the best urban experience in this country behind new york. This is the main reason why I've always had a fascination for Chicago as a kid as it's skyline gave it a BIG city look but then when I found out that it only had about 2-3 million people within city proper I'll admit I felt superior. While Chicago invented the skyscraper, we pioneered it. All this out of pure competition without knowing that we sort of worked togethor to make skyscrapers happen. Much respect.

Atlanta - mmm, I've never had any interest in Atlanta. Whats in Atlanta besides big companies? What makes it stand out from all of the other cities in this country, that would make me become interested in visiting or anything. I don't know... Atlanta seems as a "city" that just continues to consume more and more land and resources in a very destructive way. Polluting machine, sorta like Phoenix...

Miami - First thing that comes to mind is.....south beach. (you guessed it). A city filled with closedminded people, so I've heard. I like the whole city by the beach thing though and would like to visit, especially since theres a lot of attractive people. I don't like the whole plastic rich scene though...

Houston - I don't know much about Houston, doesn't really attract me. I like the skyline though...

Seattle - Seattle rocks, especially in the fall when its colorful. I too loved the whole grunge scene. Not only that but it has a killer downtown for a small city. I actually think seattle gives many other bigger "cities" a run for their money, offering more of an urban experience, etc. Not only that but I love it's neighborhoods albeit not as dense as I like but nice. I could see myself living here anyday.

San Fran- Frisco to me is like a minie New York. I find it interesting how it's able to compete and even be seen as a threat by it's bigger sister to the south despite its small population. A place unique with its hills and trolleys. It's no mystery why San Fran has become known all over the world. What's it doing in the west though? It belongs in the east, cant you see? haha, wouldn't mind living here either.

LA- That other big city on the other side... hmm LA makes the car look attractive, atleast to me. I find it interesting how it's pretty much a mix between suburbs and city. Downtown looks alot like the flatiron district only really gritty, sorta like a DUMBO. It's the gritty Downtown that really has me drooling, and I'd like to personally take all the pictures I can of it before it's all cleaned up and turned into a playground for the fake plastic rich (ugh..). While in LA, I noticed some angelinos had this dislike/hate towards new york. I actually found it really amusing, are we a threat or too intimidating? Don't know, don't care. LA seemed okay during my short stay.

That was pretty damn long. Hope no feelings were hurt..

Let me put it this way:

Boston: The little engine that could. Nice lil' city but it's dead after 9pm.
Phila: Awesome city. Someday it will be part of the NYC metro area. Like it or not ;)
DC: Great city for visiting not for living. Like NYC is very transportation / history rich.
Chicago: Still the second city (NO!!! Los Angeles has the second largest population but (compared to Chicago) no personality or wide appeal (finances, industry, politics, food, theatres...).
Atlanta: Growing city with a lot of potential.
Miami: The (real estate) playground for New Yorkers. Unofficially, it is borough #6.
Houston: Founded by New Yorkers. No type of scene (unless you consider sweating a scene). Also, this place is dead!
Seattle: Cool, swinging city.
SF: NYC with better weather.
LA: Wants to be a lot things for it fails miserably at them. No personality (Paris has flair, Chicago has attitude, NYC has energy but LA has BLAH). The most decentralized city in the USA. See "Chicago" above.

Its hard to impress a New Yorker in NA. Citys that have impressed me in their own little ways.. Chicago ( for sure), Toronto ( for sure), Montreal( for sure).... Las Vegas did impress me... and San Francisco without a doubt.

Its hard to impress a New Yorker in NA. Citys that have impressed me in their own little ways.. Chicago ( for sure), Toronto ( for sure), Montreal( for sure).... Las Vegas did impress me... and San Francisco without a doubt.
Well said girl!!!

This is the most ridiculous thing ever. At least most of the New Yorkers here -- some may respect Los Angeles, others may not -- have the decency of recognizing and acknowledging its strengths. I certainly hope the majority of New Yorkers aren't as ignorant as you are.

(NO!!! Los Angeles has the second largest population but (compared to Chicago) no personality or wide appeal (finances, industry, politics, food, theatres...).

LA: Wants to be a lot things for it fails miserably at them. No personality (Paris has flair, Chicago has attitude, NYC has energy but LA has BLAH). The most decentralized city in the USA. See "Chicago" above.

Complete bull. Los Angeles is home to the world's largest pool of creative talent the world has ever seen. According to the USC Stevens Institute for Innovation, "there are more artists, writers, filmmakers, actors, dancers and musicians living and working in Los Angeles than any other city at any time in the history of civilization. There are more than 1,100 annual theatrical productions and 21 openings every week." (http://stevens.usc.edu/only_in_la_at_a_glance.php) By sheer numbers, Los Angeles has the most artists in the country (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=21715128&postcount=115) and has experienced the largest net gain of artists than any other metro area in the country (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=22527304&postcount=134). There are over 300 museums (more than any other city, actually) 80 stage theaters, and 350 theater companies (we produce more live theater than any other city). The Los Angeles Music Center is the third largest performing arts complex in the nation (larger than San Francisco) and is home to the Walt Disney Concert Hall. There are about 50 film festivals each year. That translates into one film festival every week. There are great museums here that range from evolving LACMA (whose collection is larger and more extensive than anything San Francisco has) to the hilltop acropolis known as the Getty Center (the Getty Trust is the world's wealthiest art institution) to contemporary MOCA (one of the best museums for contemporary art in the United States) to the classic Griffith Observatory. Your very own New York Times proclaims that the "Los Angeles Philharmonic tops the list of America's premier orchestras" (http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/15/arts/music/15kozi.html). And if that weren't enough, dozens and dozens of art galleries operate in Downtown, Culver City, and Santa Monica. Then there's this place called Hollywood, which is widely recognized around the world as being THE center for the production of motion pictures, television, and music. One of the largest producers of such entertainment is the Walt Disney Company (based in Burbank), which is the world's third largest media conglomerate. So much for Los Angeles being a culturally dull, or as you put it "BLAH" city.

Read up on our schools and universities. Caltech is ranked #6 in the WORLD, outranking all Ivy League schools except Harvard and MIT. Caltech also operates JPL, which is the lead US center for robotic exploration of the solar system. UCLA is ranked #13 and the UCLA Medical Center was recently named the #3 medical center in the country (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=22560472&postcount=234). Then there's USC, which is always a solid school, and the Claremont Colleges, which rank among America's best liberal arts colleges.

Our container ports handle 43% of the goods entering the United States. They are undergoing rapid expansion, which will significantly increase traffic volumes. LAX, our chief airport, is the fifth busiest in the world and the busiest by origin and destination. In addition to that, LAX is to handle more Airbus A380 aircraft than any other airport except London Heathrow.

Our population of 18 million (and growing) is extremely diverse and international. They hail from all over the globe... Korea, Mexico, China, Japan, Cambodia, Vietnam, Thailand, Philippines, Armenia, Oceania, Guatemala, Nicaragua, El Salvador, Russia, Canada, Britain, Iran, Ethiopia, etc. This is why Los Angeles has so many great cheap ethnic eats. Los Angeles boasts the second largest Jewish population outside of Israel and is the most religiously diverse city in the world (http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/crcc/demographics/lacounty.html).

We have the world's most extensive freeway system (pretty obvious). But we also have a growing transportation network. Our bus system is the second largest and second busiest in the country. Our commuter rail is the third most extensive in the country. Our inner city rail, in just 20 years time (began in 1990), is already 83% of the Chicago L. If all goes according to plan, Los Angeles' Metro Rail will be larger than Chicago's L by 2015.

Our fashion scene continues to gain steam (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=662178), we have ambitious plans to go green (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=555907), and the world's wealthy are choosing Los Angeles over New York City and London (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=628727).

Then there's the weather and scenery (as nygirl mentioned).

It's amazing how Los Angeles, with all the traffic gridlock, pollution, gangs, earthquakes, mudslides, riots, class tensions (less severe nowadays), and fake people (:|) can still hold on for dear life.

^ There are an estimated 621,000 jews living in Los Angeles and 1.9m in New York City. From my experiences throughout every neighborhood in New York City incl. some of Nassau so far.. the population and jewish presence is astounding. There are single neighborhoods with up to 100,000 residents almost all of which are Jewish in one form or another. Thats not counting the neighborhoods and combined neighborhoods of up to 100,000 and more that are dominated by the Jewish.

http://www.simpletoremember.com/vitals/world-jewish-population.htm#_Toc26172080

I loved the hundreds of ethnic neighborhoods I have gotten to experience throughout NY. To start there is the large Russian presence.. The Russians by far have made their mark on New York City. As have the Italian and Irish. Whole sections of boroughs are dominated by the Puerto Ricans and Dominicans. The Sikh, Indian and Bengali communities are huge throughout queens.
The Greeks, Filipinos, Chinese, Arab, Colombian/ Venezuelan, West Indian, and Korean's presence in Queens really surprised me.

I was pleased to find good sized Albanian communities in the Bronx and Staten Island. Staten Island also had a huge Russian and eastern european community. Though I can't really prove it in the pictures I took aside for a few flags maybe on people's houses I never knew that central Staten Island was home to so many Norwegians and Swedes, particularly in the Westerleigh and Willowbrook communities.

Since I’ve been visiting Nassau county recently I’ve noticed how large the El Salvadoran and Mexican community is out there. Long Beach itself is a cornucopia of West Indians, Central Americans, Secular Jews, Hasidic, Italians, and Puerto Ricans.

I always knew Greenpoint, Brooklyn had a huge Polish presence but I never knew if you traveled east into Queens that so were the large neighborhoods of Maspeth and Ridgewood. This is just what I have done so far so I can imagine what I may find in Jersey and Westchester

Also..

Urb, I'd like to think you know I wouldn't say anything wrong or hurtful about Chicago. I love Chicago for everything that it is and it is my second favorite city after NY. I meant what I said when I said that the people were boring but I was 24 at the time and mostly referring to the nightlife/ scene. I know there is a big scene and no one is denying that. I am, however, I was more used to the eccentric, in your face scene that was even stronger back then than it is now in NYC. Chicago to me, just seemed cozier and friendlier. NY has the variety and in numbers. So when I said the people are boring that is what I was referring to. I guess I didn't feel the need to specify, sorry. In general, some of the best people I have ever met in my life, I met in Chicago.

^ Forget to finish what you were saying? ;)

Yah, for some reason it posted what I was in the middle of trying to say. Just got done discussing this with a subordinate at my job who wants to purchase one of my photo sets.

wow, time flies doesn't it?

Its been a few years, and i'm little bit more seasoned in my traveling so I can comment on a few more things here.

Boston - What can I say, small but still dense. The T (the green line in particular) reminds me alot of the s-bahn/regiobahn trains overseas vice versa. I have quite a bit of family in Boston (Dorchester), and when I was younger I couldn't really appreciate the characteristics of the city. I try to get up there at least every few months.

Philadelphia - I've traveled to Philly extensively in the past few years, I don't know what to say. Another city where I have also have family (Center City, and North Philadelphia) The feel in the neighborhoods remind me of NY but back in the 90's (when I was growing up). There's a lot of energy/interesting work being created in the music/art scene albeit its small. Its compact and there's something there for everyone, the SEPTA leaves more to be desired but it gets the job done for the most part. One of the 3 cities i've been musing on relocating too.

Chicago - After all these years I still have yet to visit the Chi, hopefully that will change soon.

D.C./Baltimore - I've always loved it down there, I just think Bmore needs to get its act straight with the transit projects. Not only are the cities very rich, but the metropolitan area is worth exploring, from Bethesda to Arlington, Towson, Silver Springs, etc.

ATL - Not a bad city at all, lovely people and even lovelier women. Its just not for me (at the moment), and yes its another city where I have family (around midtown)

Miami - Lovely, I haven't been down there in a minute though. I used to have a real obsession with that city, but my interests have changed within the past few years, and yes it is another city/metro where I have family (around the arts district, Hialeah)

I still have yet to get out to the West, but i'll be there soon. Though I have to get back overseas first ;)

Let's break it down:


Are you refering to Los Angeles County or Los Angeles City? Los Angeles County is over 4,000 square miles in size. Let's not compare apples to oranges!
Consider the source of the information (USC: University of Southern California?)
L.A.'s metro system is not even close to being world class system, as is Chicago's. There are a handful of cities with systems larger than the Chicago L but are not anywhere nears as effective. In other words, what do you get out of having a large transit system when it is not really accessible to it's citizens? I mean, come on...I have to drive (in LA) to get to a metro station? You have a bus line as part of your Metro system? Also, you said that LA has the 2nd largest bus system in the country but you are referring to LA County (LACMTA) not LA City. Los Angeles county makes up a large part of the LA metro area. NY's bus system only includes the city. It does not include Long Island Bus, NJ Transit, Westchester County Buses, Rockland County Buses, etc...
You have an extensive freeway system! But it's virtually a parking lot. What good it's that? Sounds like you need a world class transportation system (like Chicago's).
The container port you are talking about is the combined LA/Long Beach port. I suggest you do the numbers just for LA. You'll get a different number. LAX As opposed to NYC where we actually have 3 separate ports (just Port Newark-Elizabeth ranks no 3 in the country (even though it's much smaller than LA/Long Beach),3 separate international airports (that combined have a total passenger traffic of more than 100 million).
You said "If all goes according to plan, Los Angeles' Metro Rail will be larger than Chicago's L by 2015". That remains to be seen!
You said "Our fashion scene continues to gain steam". Well, your reference says this: "5) London (4) - The Elite Five far outdistance the rest.". Sounds Like LA has a lot of work to do. Besides, this is the United States and Los Angeles it's second largest city. Miami is (about) 12 smaller and look "26) Miami (New) - Makes the list on its leadership in swimwear." Shame, Shame!!!
You said "and the world's wealthy are choosing Los Angeles over New York City and London". Well, the rich are coming from these cities. It's cheaper to buy land in LA (compared to NY and London).Not only, that most of these people are looking at LA has a "vacation" rather than a permanent one. Look at the business growth in and around Los Angeles (City). It's mostly companies with headquarters in either NYC (Media, Fashion, Technology, Finances, etc) or London (Banking) (or Chicago ;) - Does The Tribune Company sound familiar?)
18 million in the Metro area? try 12.5 million. The 18 mil your referring to are part of the CSA.
Yes, it does have beautiful weather and scenery.

Can Los Angeles ever become a world leader in anything? Yes. Before that it needs to get itself up in the rankings pass Chicago. Even the movie industry depicts LA as a dump, a cultural waste land (LA's only superhero, Hancock, is a homeless person - nothing bad about being homeless. But when he finally get's his act together he moves to NYC ;)).

Are you refering to Los Angeles County or Los Angeles City? Los Angeles County is over 4,000 square miles in size. Let's not compare apples to oranges!

It's not made clear. Nowadays, cities are defined by their metropolitan areas, not by their city limits. City limits are only for administrative purposes. The entire land as a whole is what really counts.

Consider the source of the information (USC: University of Southern California?)

Kind of like how NYC is still branding itself as the "Financial Capital of the World" despite numerous studies that London has now overtaken it? :okay:

The study conducted by the NEA (based in DC) backs up USC's claim. ;)

L.A.'s metro system is not even close to being world class system, as is Chicago's. There are a handful of cities with systems larger than the Chicago L but are not anywhere nears as effective. In other words, what do you get out of having a large transit system when it is not really accessible to it's citizens? I mean, come on...I have to drive (in LA) to get to a metro station?

Chicago's L really isn't world class. It is mediocre at best. Even with all of the expansion projects planned, Los Angeles is still bound to overtake it in size (and ridership). Once the entire Westside Subway Extension is completed, I would expect ridership of 500,000 (minimum) each weekday. And that doesn't include all the other lines.

You have a bus line as part of your Metro system? Also, you said that LA has the 2nd largest bus system in the country but you are referring to LA County (LACMTA) not LA City. Los Angeles county makes up a large part of the LA metro area. NY's bus system only includes the city. It does not include Long Island Bus, NJ Transit, Westchester County Buses, Rockland County Buses, etc...

There are other bus agencies that operate alongside LACMTA in Los Angeles County: Burbank Bus, Cerritos on Wheels, Culver City Bus, El Sol, Foothill Transit, Gardena Municipal Bus Lines, Glendale BeeLine, LADOT, Long Beach Transit, Montebello Bus Lines, Municipal Area Express, Norwalk Transit System, ARTS, Santa Clarita Transit, Santa Monica Big Blue Bus, and Torrance Transit. Those agencies operate an additional 1,400+ buses in Los Angeles County.

You have an extensive freeway system! But it's virtually a Sounds like you need a world class transportation system (like Chicago's).

Having an extensive freeway system means there are more options of getting around.

Chicago's transit isn't world class.

The container port you are talking about is the combined LA/Long Beach port. I suggest you do the numbers just for LA. You'll get a different number. LAX As opposed to NYC where we actually have 3 separate ports (just Port Newark-Elizabeth ranks no 3 in the country (even though it's much smaller than LA/Long Beach),3 separate international airports (that combined have a total passenger traffic of more than 100 million).

Both Port Los Angeles and Port Long Beach by themselves are busier than Port New York/New Jersey. Since you're so keen on city limits, you might want to acknowledge the fact that half of the four ports are in Jersey. ;)

You said "If all goes according to plan, Los Angeles' Metro Rail will be larger than Chicago's L by 2015". That remains to be seen!

And we moved one step closer to reaching that goal yesterday.

You said "Our fashion scene continues to gain steam". Well, your reference says this: "5) London (4) - The Elite Five far outdistance the rest.". Sounds Like LA has a lot of work to do. Besides, this is the United States and Los Angeles it's second largest city. Miami is (about) 12 smaller and look "26) Miami (New) - Makes the list on its leadership in swimwear." Shame, Shame!!!

I said Los Angeles' fashion scene is gaining steam. Where did I say it had caught up with the others? LMFFFFFFAO, what does Miami's size have to do with anything? Your rationale makes me laugh SO hard. :rofl:

Besides, I was referring more to the articles, not the list.

You said "and the world's wealthy are choosing Los Angeles over New York City and London". Well, the rich are coming from these cities. It's cheaper to buy land in LA (compared to NY and London).Not only, that most of these people are looking at LA has a "vacation" rather than a permanent one. Look at the business growth in and around Los Angeles (City). It's mostly companies with headquarters in either NYC (Media, Fashion, Technology, Finances, etc) or London (Banking) (or Chicago ;) - Does The Tribune Company sound familiar?)

Um, did you even read the article? Here's an excerpt:

An international Brit who makes his home in Monaco, Candy and his brother are building a luxury condo project in Beverly Hills on land purchased last year for half a billion dollars.

And the 35-year-old multimillionaire developer isn’t just eyeing L.A.’s well-heeled residents. About half of the buyers are expected to be foreigners seeking second homes – everyone from Middle Eastern sheiks, to Latin American businessmen, to new Russian potentates.

18 million in the Metro area? try 12.5 million. The 18 mil your referring to are part of the CSA.

CSA is considered to be metropolitan area.

(LA's only superhero, Hancock, is a homeless person - nothing bad about being homeless. But when he finally get's his act together he moves to NYC ;)).

And NYC's Spiderman Tobey Maguire lives in Los Angeles (born and raised).

^^

Why is Chicago's El not World class?

Hancock, is a homeless person - nothing bad about being homeless. But when he finally get's his act together he moves to NYC ;)).

Hancock moves to New York!http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee192/trolltoast/hancock_movie_image_will_smith__5_.jpgcollider.com
Sick and tired of whatever Los Angeles offers, this 'super' hero is "sick and tired!" as told to Milquetoast July 29, 2008 "I'm sick and tired of Los Angeles", Hancock quietly whispers defeatedly, as he burps even more pollution into the already saturated 'la la' environment. "I wanna wake up in a city that doesn't sleep..." "Las Vegas?", I say quietly, almost to myself- for I know what the only answer is. "New York", he concurs. He's only just begun. "Look at this dump, any reason why I don't drink? Look how fake and plastic those two across the street are, what are they, 80? Tryin' to look 30, pfff.." There isn't anyone across the street, or anywhere around for that matter, as we all know how deserted L. A. can be on a sunny, Saturday afternoon- but he's correct about the stereotype that's actually true: People are actually fake and plastic here! He's not finished readin' me the riot act on other reasons why he's bookin' for that 'other' coast... "People are.... so stupid here", he offers immediately, "Sometimes, I think I'm the only worthwhile person in the entire shithole! The ones that piss me off the most, are the kids- but you see any kids out here? NO! They're all inside their cheap-ass, stucco slathered bungalows, making love to their TV's with their thumbs, pretending to be outside where their lawns are turning brown because there's no more water! I can't wait till I sober up so's I can 'jet' to New York! Where people are real..... where I belong." Of course the lawns aren't brown, but New York people have a way of being correct, in normal conversation or any conversation. Whether they are born and bred, or recently transferred. The whole world knows this, how 'worldly' they are. I turn to ask him another question, but he's disappeared. I spot him yelling at some people in a crosswalk down the street after he helps one of them off of the blacktop. He zips back to me as they go about their way. "They can't walk! People here cannot put their feet in front of the other and remain upright! They literally have driven so much over the generations, they have forgotten how to walk! I'm sick of this.... this town's beneath me!" So, that's it in a nutshell. There's nothing more to add, right? I ask him how he's going to live in New York when he can barely make it now. Is he going to get a job? "What are you, kidding? There are so many jobs there for super heroes it ain't even funny! And the high class, legitimate kind- know what I'm sayin'? Yeah, I wanna be one of those. They got that little red dude swingin' down the center of Times Square. So many buildings situated so close together. Why you suppose they even bother putting windows in those things? Not like they gonna see anything anyhow, but yeah. If I can be appreciated there, I can be appreciated anywhere... Gotham." The conversation tentatively continues after I break it to him that New York was never Gotham and that Chicago seems to be the template now, but he's not interested in Chicago. "Chicago's just a big town, I need a city" "Come on, what's the deal", I ask him. "L. A. can't be all that bad?" He points to some people down the street who have apparently tripped and have fallen down in yet another crosswalk. "For all the money they spend on Lasik here, you would think that would help!", Hancock observes. "New York is always right about the world. The people in L. A. have no class, they have no street smarts, they're overly concerned with appearances instead of the more important aspects of New York life. Like, I don't know... sunning yourself on a tar roof in the middle of August with halfway decent pizza for a change! I'm sick and tired of that fresh cool marine layer coming straight off the ocean, right? Yeah, to go to New York and feel that warm air! Air with a little 'meat' to it, ya know? Like in a subway! Real beaches are overrated anyways!" "Oh, pleeeze", I say, half expecting to be pulverized. But, again, we're still in L. A., and L. A. has a way of sapping the energy out of people, even Hancock... "Man, you just don't get it, do you? This town is lazy. This town has no center for me to navigate, this town has no culture- which I need- this town has no soul. There's no diversity here, everyone is Mexican and I NEED MY SEASONS! I can't tell when Christmas is coming, nor do I care anymore because now I'm a Scientologist. Everything is in bloom all the time and that sucks... you know?" He's crying now. I start to believe that Los Angeles is so pathetic it makes fully grown superheroes cry! "It really is killing me, staying here.." he says. "The longer I stay here, the dumber I get and the funnier I ain't. You have to work hard to get anywhere here, even for me! No one drives you around in a subway here, or in a taxi, and no one opens the door for you ... I need amenities, man!" I suggest we change locations and he agrees. All of a sudden, the prospect of being in New York gives him a tingling feeling in his super legs, kind of like the shiver O'Bama gave ass-munch Chris Matthews that one time. His eyes magically dry. New York can do that for a person! We pick it up two weeks later: http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee192/trolltoast/littlegun.jpg theboxofficejunkie.com
It's uncanny what a change two weeks can bring! He looks the part of a true, New York super hero now! He, of course, lives in the coolest part of the planet- Brooklyn- and blends in famously, or not! Because people in Brooklyn are real, they don't care who the celebrity is, and just accept the fact that he is one of them. "Huh? Huh?", he yells at me, and the feeling is mutual. New York agrees with him in a way that ONLY New York can! He's dressed to the 9's in the sharpest black suit possible, and shades to match. He's telling me he can't say in what capacity he works for the Port Authority, but he says it's a much better working environment than sitting on a bench drunk! Plus, he says "the women are so much better looking here than in California!" "Los Angeles was such a drag I didn't know whether I was coming or going, you knowhatI'msaying?", he states in his beautiful, newly acquired accent, "This is where I belong! I honestly don't know what I was thinking not moving here years ago. Los Angeles is a dumpstye. Douchebag central! All this talk about it being so important to the economy of the country, with the port system and the 'modern day Ellis Island' bullshit and the manufacturing base and the high tech and aerospace sectors and the fake entertainment and the 'doing all the things the corporations want to do but can't themselves so Los Angeles has to do it for them' crap.... I just couldn't take the lies anymore! Besides, everyone knows that Broadway's where it's at! That, and Gossip Girl!" Boy, he's got- as Entertainment Weekly proudly points out, that "damned funny New York sensibility"- going for him all right! He's right out of a movie, instilled with true character, moxie and chutsbah- like all New York people! He literally is shimmering with love of New York! He's where he belongs, and all is right with the world. The New York world! What can possibly come next, I ask? "I'm tracking down Blake Lively, Sarah Jessica Parker and Tina Fey! Yeah, and little America Ferarri, too! These are my new peeps! I've finally arrived .........where's that naked cowboy at?" Milquetoast is a writer with the Milquetoast Times The Milquetoast Times

Boston: Charming and soaked in history. Feels a bit small but I kind of like that.
Phila: Haven't spent enough time in Philadelphia (yet)
DC: Very grand, with some great neighborhoods and great public transportation
Chicago: Very impressive skyline but brutal, killer winters (a friend who moved there says her office building has a rope that they throw to people coming into the building on particularly windy days—crazy!!!)
Atlanta: beautiful city with very nice people, bad traffic and a killer skyline
Miami: hot, great shopping and restaurants but not impressed with the people
Houston: nothing really nice to say except very good museums
Seattle: have yet to go. :(
SF: amazing. incredible geography, friendly people, a vibe all its own.
LA: awful people (vapid, at least the ones I met) and just an ugly city for the most part.

Lmfao.. Milq you got way too much time on your hands buddy. Not sure if anyone else is going to read through the whole thing but you actually wrote that all very well. It almost seems like a real article some quirky little journalist would write. Gotta love the effort. You should go through the first 2 pages though, lots of work to do.. If you despise NYC and New Yorkers though, why care enough to write a novel in their own forum over it? Isn't it one of the LA 10 commandments not to pay "those New Yorkers" any mind?

^^

Why is Chicago's El not World class?

I love Chicago, but its L really is subpar. It underperforms severely in ridership (for a "traditional" city) and is quite dated (at least that's what I've heard). The Hong Kong MTR is of similar size, yet it handles on average 5.5 times as many riders each weekday.

LA: awful people (vapid, at least the ones I met) and just an ugly city for the most part.

It seems like you don't know much about LA. I very much doubt you've visited places like LACMA, Getty Center, Getty Villa, Griffith Observatory/Park, MOCA, Historic Core, Koreatown, Echo Park, etc.

Generalizing a population of 18 million people, who hail from all over the globe, is just as superficial as you claim the people here to be.

Although this thread is really not about Chicago, I must say that there seems to be (for whatever reason) a prevailing notion that the Public Transport System in Chicagoland is "crappy".

I should note that if we discount all the current slowdowns due to the rebuilding of many of the existing stations, the L is remarkably efficient -- concentrating on those areas where ridership and density are greatest. A lot of improvements are certainly in the works or are needed to be adressed in the near future, but the fact that ridership has been increasing or has remained steady over the last few years (in spite of all the problems) speaks for itself. Direct connectivity of the L System with both City Airports and the continued support of 24-hour service on the most heavily used lines correlates nicely with very specific target needs, and it is only wise that they do so.

Lastly, one should note that Public Transport in Chicago is not limited to the L. The rail system connecting Chicago with greater Chicagoland is also quite efficient and well maintained. This should not surprise us, given the history of Chicago as a railway hub.

We should note that the Chicago RTA remains the second largest transport system in North America, with 4800 rail cars and buses, 600 shuttles, and covering no less than 7200 route miles.

I've lived and work in Chicagoland for decades, without ever owning a car. I have done the reverse commute from Chicago to so many companies in the North, Northwest, and West suburbs (usually involving distances of 30-40 miles one way) for years without having recourse to anything but the L, the metra train, buses, and shuttles. During the few instances when we used a car, it normally took us twice as long on average to do the same commute during rush hour. That should mean something.

Sorry for this diversion from the main topic...

LA: I have a love/hate thing with LA. I love the weather, love the beaches, love the Beverly Hills thing, West Hollywood area, and Venice Beach, Santa Monica area. Very pretty in and around LA. But the traffic and sprawl I hate! Lacks a dense, real central city still.

LA: Some cities have roads, in this case, roads have a city. Needs to change to become "urban".

LA, I don't know, having been a few times, I didn't know what to think, but it's not that hard to acclimate too. I don't like the lack of density but there's a lot of things to do which make up. They need better public transportation though. SF is a great town, has a very distinctive feel too.


People still seem to be misinformed about LA's central core: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=667314


The ten densest zip codes in California

1 94109 San Francisco San Francisco, CA 50,340.3
2 90057 Los Angeles Los Angeles, CA 48,199.9
3 94102 San Francisco San Francisco, CA 44,886.3
4 94108 San Francisco San Francisco, CA 40,682.4
5 90020 Los Angeles Los Angeles, CA 35,415.6
6 94133 San Francisco San Francisco, CA 34,339.5
7 90005 Los Angeles Los Angeles, CA 32,442.0
8 90006 Los Angeles Los Angeles, CA 32,310.3
9 90017 Los Angeles Los Angeles, CA 30,801.9
10 94110 San Francisco San Francisco, CA 29,991.8


http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2384/2664720392_97e576d589_b.jpg
From Flickr, by MelroseChris

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3133/2526236679_56aa1e37dd_b.jpg
From Flickr, by Atwater Village Newbie

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2414/2519574269_167ecc6811_b.jpg
From Flickr, by Atwater Village Newbie

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3048/2526246517_fa832d164c_b.jpg
From Flickr, by Atwater Village Newbie

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2325/2527075112_102a1fb8ca_b.jpg
From Flickr, by Atwater Village Newbie

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a22/godblessbotox/hollywood.jpg
By godblessbotox

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/2/1831558_36bbc92681_b.jpg
From Flickr, by Kaptain Krispy Kreme


Now, compare that to...

Atlanta

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/48/154152885_376e3090a7_b.jpg
From Flickr, by Kaptain Krispy Kreme

Houston

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/161/424757745_ef2e4f60c1_b.jpg
From Flickr, by alchip

Dallas

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2107/2538340781_298decd85e_o.jpg
From Flickr, by austrini

Miami

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/133/398820301_b28128ff39_b.jpg
From Flickr, by StephaneR

Phoenix

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/97/242596867_5a79036cf9_b.jpg
From Flickr, by Kaptain Krispy Kreme

Seattle: Beautiful green all around, wonderful views. Nice skyline, nice central city. I love the scene, both work-based and social. Great place to live and work.
been there, i agree with ya' 100%:okay:

Los Angeles is more on the level of Chicago and New York in terms of density. It falls short in peak density but it is something even I didn't get until I came to these boards. The whole suburban arguement just does not apply to Los Angeles as it does the other sun-belt citys.

The LA West showed us looks alot more like this

http://i32.tinypic.com/21ox5b9.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2132/2217117039_378719ac76_o.jpg

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d119/chicagostyle123/Chicago%20Photos/IMG_1387.jpg?t=1199951554

http://img485.imageshack.us/img485/6023/208989639394e6226c86bfd5.jpg

http://p.airliners.net/photos/photos/1/3/1/0523131.jpg

http://cavery.yann.neuf.fr/NewYork_et_Washington_DC/Images/Panorama%20autre%20de%20Manhattan%20depuis%20Empire%20State%20Building.jpg

http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/4633/0laforetp009qx6.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/ati_m/image/63326730/original.jpg

http://jamesmuspratt.com/images/189.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/40/116998099_ee70b2ec64_o.jpg

than those sun-belt citys that are only a fraction of its size.


Wow... Phoenix is incredibly pathetic for a ''city'' of its size.



( I didn't take any of the above pictures)

^ Thanks, nygirl. ;)

I hope I didn't give you the impression that LA has hoods as dense as those you'd find in Lower Manhattan, because it doesn't. I'd say Central LA best compares with Brooklyn, but LA as a whole is more like Queens. We have lots of those Chicago-style bungalows, only a bit more suburban. ;)

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1370/1241807302_ddd06ec500_b.jpg
From Flickr, by samuelalove

It almost seems like a real article some quirky little journalist would write.

Took me two seconds. Quirky Little Journalist? Don't make me break out PART II: Hancock moves back

^ but LA as a whole is more like Queens. We have lots of those Chicago-style bungalows, only a bit more suburban. ;)

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1370/1241807302_ddd06ec500_b.jpg
From Flickr, by samuelalove

^^That is LA? If so man does that street scene look so Chicagoesque.

^ LOL, that's Chicago all right. I was searching for photos of similar hoods in LA, but couldn't find any. But yeah, I should've been more clear. :tongue3:

Tpe, I was only referring to the L. I certainly didn't mean to imply that Chicago's transit infrastructure is "crappy". Far from it. By American standards, it's superb. But compared to its counterparts in Asia and Europe, its ridership figures are quite disappointing. Granted, Hong Kong is a much denser city than Chicago, but Chicago has a very built up central core.

Metra, on the other hand, I applaud. I'm very impressed with Metra's ridership totals (NYC isn't that far ahead of Chicago). LA's Metrolink, which is quite extensive as it is, severely underperforms in ridership.

I love it when cities fight with eachother!

I am a New Yorker by birth and a Philadelphian by choice, here are a few of my opinions:

New York is way better than LA ... LA has a superficial quality about it, plastic ... I don't know ... the public transportation system is awful, you have to have a car. Yes the Getty Museum is great, but the Met is better.

Boston is cleaner and has more class than Philly. The climate in Philly is better though, our winters are shorter and less severe than Boston: things like bamboo and camellias grow outdoors here. Boston has better sports teams than Philly.

Miami is a relatively new city, it was once a rather sleepy beach resort; now it is glamerous and exciting. Miami has the third best skyline in the US after Chicago and New York. Miami is physically beautiful - although very flat - a city on the turquoise waters of Biscayne Bay, with little green islands, palm trees everyone, beautiful sunsets. Dubai wishes it was Miami.

Chicago is world class. Great skyline. Cleaner than NYC. The residential neighborhoods of Chicago are great, especially Oak Park with it's Frank Lloyd Wright houses. Good museums, but Philly's Art Museum beats the Art Institute of Chicago. Excellant sports teams. Some of the best airports, too.

Atlanta is a victim of it's own success. The hub of the South. Beautiful architecture and lovely parks. Too spread out. Traffic a nightmare. Downtown scary at night. I miss the "old" Atlanta of Henry Grady and Margaret Mitchell.

Baltimore - a really crazy and eccentric city like Savannah and New Orleans. Ladies with big hair, guys in strange outfits, trailer park accents, drag queens, lots of wierdos. I love it. Only Ballmer (Baltimore) could produce a John Waters and a Divine!

Washington - rather elegant and beautifully laid out. A city that is ornamental with lovely circles, squares, statues and fountains ... but snobby and aloof. Very grand but very pretentious. Fantastic museums. Terrible climate - bone chilling winters and scorching summers.

Thanks for letting me get these views off my chest.

:blahblah:

New York is way better than LA ... LA has a superficial quality about it, plastic ... I don't know ... the public transportation system is awful, you have to have a car. Yes the Getty Museum is great, but the Met is better.

Simply untrue. There are Angelenos who live car-free by choice. LA's rail network is really substandard, but the excellent bus system manages to cut it some slack. You can really get around with Metro Bus. Just a few weeks ago, I took the Gold Line from Mission to Union Station, transferred over to the the Purple Line and took it to Wilshire/Western, and then finally hopped on the Metro Rapid Line 720 and rode it all the way to Santa Monica. The bus was packed (standing room only both ways). Yes, it's a pain and it's not nearly as reliable as a subway, but you would be able to get used to it. I know I would. I can NEVER understand why people dismiss riding buses. Do they not count as public transportation?

No offense to you and the forumers here, but are there any New Yorkers here (except nygirl and some others) who can speak about LA without having to compare it to their own city? This is the stereotypical New Yorker attitude and I thought the people here were better than that. There was no New York vs. Los Angeles argument until you brought it up. I'm an Angeleno, and I love my city; but I also have the deepest respect for NYC, even with all this "tension". New York is not the antithesis of Los Angeles, nor is there any mutual distrust between the two. It's all in your head. Glad you like the Getty Center, though. I've never been to the Met, but I can tell already it's much better.

LA looks more appealing for me to take out my bike.. and I don't mean a huffy. When I ride I take the belt ( which gets jammed) to the Southern State pkwy and then take that to the meadowbrook, meadowbrook to Ocean Parkway and thats the best that it gets. LA looks like it would be more fun to ride around in.

Simply untrue. There are Angelenos who live car-free by choice. LA's rail network is really substandard, but the excellent bus system manages to cut it some slack. You can really get around with Metro Bus. Just a few weeks ago, I took the Gold Line from Mission to Union Station, transferred over to the the Purple Line and took it to Wilshire/Western, and then finally hopped on the Metro Rapid Line 720 and rode it all the way to Santa Monica. The bus was packed (standing room only both ways). Yes, it's a pain and it's not nearly as reliable as a subway, but you would be able to get used to it. I know I would. I can NEVER understand why people dismiss riding buses. Do they not count as public transportation?



I'm sorry. I was being glib and dismissive. It was in the middle of the night. LA in fact has some fantastic neighborhoods like Silver Lake, Westwood, etc. I love Palos Verdes! It is a world class city and a great cultural city. The climate is way better than what we have here in the Northeast. I guess my frustration is that every time I'm in LA I don't have a car and getting around is such a bitch! I would miss a bus and then have to wait half an hour for the next one! I have a car here in Philly but I rarely use it. I walk to the supermarket, take a trolley to Center City and if I just miss one the next one comes in 5 to 8 minutes.

Just curious, what do you NYers think of St. Louis? Honesty please!

^^ Stl to me means.... some of the greatest red brick rows bar-none, the arch, great music scene ( blues, jazz), somewhat southern, somewhat midwestern , great baseball team ( the only NL teams I like are the Cards and Cubs).. other than that I don't know, never been.

Thanks, nygirl! I LOVE NY(girl)!

You can't stereotype the average NYer because you have so many categories.

You have the Donald Trump tycoons.
You have the Bernhard Goetz types.
You have the street vendors.

There is no stereotypical type, so get over it.

Skyscrapers are tall buildings - end of story.

Simply untrue. There are Angelenos who live car-free by choice. LA's rail network is really substandard, but the excellent bus system manages to cut it some slack. You can really get around with Metro Bus. Just a few weeks ago, I took the Gold Line from Mission to Union Station, transferred over to the the Purple Line and took it to Wilshire/Western, and then finally hopped on the Metro Rapid Line 720 and rode it all the way to Santa Monica. The bus was packed (standing room only both ways). Yes, it's a pain and it's not nearly as reliable as a subway, but you would be able to get used to it. I know I would. I can NEVER understand why people dismiss riding buses. Do they not count as public transportation?

No offense to you and the forumers here, but are there any New Yorkers here (except nygirl and some others) who can speak about LA without having to compare it to their own city? This is the stereotypical New Yorker attitude and I thought the people here were better than that. There was no New York vs. Los Angeles argument until you brought it up. I'm an Angeleno, and I love my city; but I also have the deepest respect for NYC, even with all this "tension". New York is not the antithesis of Los Angeles, nor is there any mutual distrust between the two. It's all in your head. Glad you like the Getty Center, though. I've never been to the Met, but I can tell already it's much better.
Why is it that you get offended when someone says something about LA? Isn't this a forum? Isn't the title of this Thread "NEW YORKERS: Your view of US cities"? Than let us talk and keep your (LA) comments to yourself!!! Allow me to say that LA is a nice city. A diamond in the wrought! Unfortunately, it's going thru a lot growing pains. The perception that people have of LA, New Yorkers included, is thanks to it's own movie industry. So don't hate us for something your citizens themselves are promoting. One thing that NYkers do well is take pride in what we have and are realistic about their environments (other cities included). Just look at what other Angelinos are saying about your city (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=648624) Talk about civic pride :ohno:

Canadian Cities:

Halifax: I don't know much about it but it has a cute skyline and looks damn cold.

Quebec City: Frontenac is awesome. I did a little research on it since I wanted to visit a while back and it has a rich and interesting history. Hopefully one day ( soon) I can go up and explore it. Big thumbs up for Quebec City

Montreal: Big thumbs up for Montreal as well. I only visited once which wasn't enough and I should visit more since you are not a terrible drive away. Its long but its scenic. Saint Laurent & St. Catherine street definetly gave NY a run for its money. Good chinese food, La ville souterraine was cool walking under the city. Cool old warehouses and factories, lots of grit. Looks damn cold.


Niagra Falls: Very cool, you got the gambling and the falls. Maid of the myst, Clifton Hill, The skywheel and Falls view were all fun but AC is closer.


Toronto: The only city in North America that makes me feel like I am back in New York City. I love Toronto and went up for a pride week a couple of years ago. Had a blast there and been in love ever since. Love - The Islands, Rogers Center, Yonge Street, Eaton Center, street cars, CN tower ( didn't go up). People we met were cool as hell but from all over Canada and not just Toronto. High park was really pretty and relaxing. Cool by me.

Vancouver: Never been but it looks very inviting from my years visiting this site. I would love to visit someday, hope I can.

Calgary, Winnepeg, Edmonton: Never been, don't know a heck of a alot about.

St. John looks cool I'd definetly go there.

What about Detroit? I remember when Detroit had this reputation of a lawless dangerous city. I remember in the movie "Kentucky Fried Movie" there was a scene where the Yakuza guys just captured an enemy agent and threatened to torture him and he was like "Ha! I'll never talk! There's nothing you can do to make me talk!" then the bad guy goes "Nothing eh?? Take him to Detroit!" and the guy says "No! Not Detroit! I'll tell you everything you want to know! Just don't take me to Detroit!" :lol:

Neither the NYC subway or DC Metro or the Atlanta MARTA or the Boston T or the San Francisco BART or the Chicago EL or the Philadelphia SEPTA compare to the Madrid metro in terms of cleanliness, speed, usability, affordability, convenience and safety.

One thing that NYkers do well is take pride in what we have and are realistic about their environments (other cities included). Just look at what other Angelinos are saying about your city (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=648624) Talk about civic pride :ohno:

No sir, crxmen. Being realistic about your environs as well as other locations is NOT what New York people do well. Matter of fact, that paradigm of yours is well documented, is based on decades of bravado and has moved out of the realm of stereotype to inhabit the world of reality. I'm not usually out here on this board but someone told me you used my thread RED FLAGS to illustrate some misguided point of yours; that there is no civic pride in Los Angeles. Well, we have more of it than we know what to do with. We, as you, can watch the light of day retreat and feel pride in the coming twinkling of millions of lights. We also, as you do, get fucking pissed off when civic leadership runs awry for no good reason, with opportunities missed- but such is life in big cities. My thread, RED FLAGS, is meant to motivate and piss people off. It is an indicator of pride. Don't do that City-Data thing of posting examples from other boards. You're just opening up a door.

Our fashion scene continues to gain steam (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=662178)

There is no fashion in Los Angeles.

whave ambitious plans to go green (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=555907)

What city doesn't?

and the world's wealthy are choosing Los Angeles over New York City and London (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=628727).

From the article:

"Yet the city has been more of a vacation destination, a stopover, compared to financial powerhouse New York City, or European capitals such as Paris and London."

And that's the way it will always be. A few months ago I worked for a Wealth Management firm in London that represented clients throughout the world and New York attracts much more world elite (billionaires and multi-millionaires) and wealthy people than Los Angeles. For second homes in the United States it goes New York City, Miami/South Florida then Los Angeles.

Then there's the weather and scenery (as nygirl mentioned).

Los Angeles has great weather if you like sunshine year round.

It's amazing how Los Angeles, with all the traffic gridlock, pollution, gangs, earthquakes, mudslides, riots, class tensions (less severe nowadays), and fake people (:|) can still hold on for dear life.

I agree with you for the most part. From what I've seen when I visit NY, there is an equal amount of fake shallow people in New York as there are in Beverly Hills/West Hollywood, etc; Meatpacking District, anyone? SoHo? Los Angeles really isn't the hell hole people make it out to be.

And finally, you seem to be taking everything too personally. He thought LA was blah and that's his opinion. I'm sure there are many who dislike London, Paris and New York but that means nothing. We all know Los Angeles is a major economic center.

"Yet the city has been more of a vacation destination, a stopover, compared to financial powerhouse New York City, or European capitals such as Paris and London.

There are signs, though, this is changing." Don't get carried away with yourself. Some European capitals don't hold an economic candle to L. A., and New York too, can take some notes :)

LA is blah. I thought Beverly Hills and Hollywood were all that but was disappointed when I saw those. Maybe, I should have gone wine-tasting.

Orlando is fun and fabricated.

Las Vegas well yeah, fake and ostentatious. At one point, I'd go crazy with the sound and flashing lights of slot machines (even in the airports.) Well, that was to be expected.

San Francisco is vibrant.

Charlestown, South Carolina is graceful, laid-back.

Boston, MA is brimming with intellectuals. Everyone is reading while riding public transpo.

Jersey City, NJ is quite pedestrian.

Washington DC can be boring after a while.

In Canada,

Vancouver is well-balanced. Clean and green yet very urbane.

Toronto is a cleaner version of NY (with more polite people, too.) :)

No sir, crxmen. Being realistic about your environs as well as other locations is NOT what New York people do well. Matter of fact, that paradigm of yours is well documented, is based on decades of bravado and has moved out of the realm of stereotype to inhabit the world of reality. I'm not usually out here on this board but someone told me you used my thread RED FLAGS to illustrate some misguided point of yours; that there is no civic pride in Los Angeles. Well, we have more of it than we know what to do with. We, as you, can watch the light of day retreat and feel pride in the coming twinkling of millions of lights. We also, as you do, get fucking pissed off when civic leadership runs awry for no good reason, with opportunities missed- but such is life in big cities. My thread, RED FLAGS, is meant to motivate and piss people off. It is an indicator of pride. Don't do that City-Data thing of posting examples from other boards. You're just opening up a door.
A DOOR TO WHAT?

the Twilight Zone?

Don't get carried away with yourself. Some European capitals don't hold an economic candle to L. A., and New York too, can take some notes :)
Why are you and your other buddy Westsidelife (he is on your recent visitor list) ganging up on people? Let her have her say! What is wrong with you? Are you a moderator? Are you two "Skyscrapercity" vigilantes? If LA doesn't get the recognition it deserves than write to your congressman and let us have our say!!!

the Twilight Zone?
:lol: Good one!!!

LA looks more appealing for me to take out my bike.. and I don't mean a huffy. When I ride I take the belt ( which gets jammed) to the Southern State pkwy and then take that to the meadowbrook, meadowbrook to Ocean Parkway and thats the best that it gets. LA looks like it would be more fun to ride around in.
I agree! The better year round weather is a big contributor!

too true, if you've never ridden up the Mulholland freeway to the Rock store in Malibu, you don't know what your'e missing! Also great to do in december or january when I know my bike back home in the east is all stored up for the winter.

too true, if you've never ridden up the Mulholland freeway to the Rock store in Malibu, you don't know what your'e missing! Also great to do in december or january when I know my bike back home in the east is all stored up for the winter.

We've been planning a trip to the Pacific for like 3.5 years now. Gone over all the details but never heard of the Rock Store. This summer is not working for us so its being pushed back again to the Spring. I'm on a SoftTail what do you ride?

I ride a Yamaha YZF600R here, but when I'm out west I have a friend who lets me borrow his Suzuki GSXR600

Why is it that you get offended when someone says something about LA? Isn't this a forum? Isn't the title of this Thread "NEW YORKERS: Your view of US cities"? Than let us talk and keep your (LA) comments to yourself!!! Allow me to say that LA is a nice city. A diamond in the wrought! Unfortunately, it's going thru a lot growing pains. The perception that people have of LA, New Yorkers included, is thanks to it's own movie industry. So don't hate us for something your citizens themselves are promoting. One thing that NYkers do well is take pride in what we have and are realistic about their environments (other cities included). Just look at what other Angelinos are saying about your city (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=648624) Talk about civic pride :ohno:

If you said something along the lines of, "I don't care for Los Angeles. It's not my type of city," then I wouldn't have even responded to you. But when you say things like, "[LA] wants to be a lot things for it fails miserably at them," without backing your claim up, of course people who are high on LA are going to respond. Why are you so surprised?

There is no fashion in Los Angeles.

LA's fashion scene began as recently as the 1990's. Coming from a Parisian, I can see why you'd say that. But anyone who knows just a little bit about fashion won't deny that LA's fashion trends have had a profound impact on the fashion world in the last 10-20 years. I'm sure you've heard of BCBG Max Azria (LA-based).

What city doesn't?

How about reading some of the articles.

From the article:

"Yet the city has been more of a vacation destination, a stopover, compared to financial powerhouse New York City, or European capitals such as Paris and London."

The article implies that that's the way it used to be and how the tide is turning.

And that's the way it will always be. A few months ago I worked for a Wealth Management firm in London that represented clients throughout the world and New York attracts much more world elite (billionaires and multi-millionaires) and wealthy people than Los Angeles. For second homes in the United States it goes New York City, Miami/South Florida then Los Angeles.

Uh, ever hear of Asia? :okay: ;)

Los Angeles has great weather if you like sunshine year round.

True, but the mountains are a stone's throw away. We could have snow if we wanted.

Why are you and your other buddy Westsidelife (he is on your recent visitor list) ganging up on people? Let her have her say! What is wrong with you? Are you a moderator? Are you two "Skyscrapercity" vigilantes? If LA doesn't get the recognition it deserves than write to your congressman and let us have our say!!!

We are not "buddies" per se. More like "frenemies".

I only gang up on people who display ignorance and use the "opinion card" as an excuse for it. I refuted all of your claims and you still tried to contest me. Face it, you didn't know even half of the things I brought to your attention.

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee192/trolltoast/rockstore2041005.jpgenglish/glendale.cc.ca.us The Rock Store
Ed & Vern
30354 Mulholland Hwy
Cornell, California 91301
(just east of Malibu in Los Angeles)
Store Phone Number 818-889-1311
Office Phone Number 805-375-7432
info@rock-store.com need a map :lol:

Atlanta looks beautiful in that aerial, so green.

We are not "buddies" per se. More like "frenemies".

I only gang up on people who display ignorance and use the "opinion card" as an excuse for it. I refuted all of your claims and you still tried to contest me. Face it, you didn't know even half of the things I brought to your attention.
One thing I'll acknowledge to is that I didn't know LA had the largest pool of artist in the nation (what is the criteria for an artist? In Paris an artist is the guy who writes graffiti on a landmark). I also have to say that I though LA was higher on the fashion scene. What I expressed was my "personal" opinion. Again, the thread is titled: NEW YORKERS: Your view of US cities. If I offended you then I'm sorry.

I LOVE NYC...I LOVE MIAMI.......I LOVE L.A SANTA MONICA NICE
LOVE THEM ALL

well this thread was turned to crap. thanks LA!

somebody press the reset button :D

This is the most ridiculous thing ever. At least most of the New Yorkers here -- some may respect Los Angeles, others may not -- have the decency of recognizing and acknowledging its strengths. I certainly hope the majority of New Yorkers aren't as ignorant as you are.



Complete bull. Los Angeles is home to the world's largest pool of creative talent the world has ever seen. According to the USC Stevens Institute for Innovation, "there are more artists, writers, filmmakers, actors, dancers and musicians living and working in Los Angeles than any other city at any time in the history of civilization. There are more than 1,100 annual theatrical productions and 21 openings every week." (http://stevens.usc.edu/only_in_la_at_a_glance.php) By sheer numbers, Los Angeles has the most artists in the country (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=21715128&postcount=115) and has experienced the largest net gain of artists than any other metro area in the country (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=22527304&postcount=134). There are over 300 museums (more than any other city, actually) 80 stage theaters, and 350 theater companies (we produce more live theater than any other city). The Los Angeles Music Center is the third largest performing arts complex in the nation (larger than San Francisco) and is home to the Walt Disney Concert Hall. There are about 50 film festivals each year. That translates into one film festival every week. There are great museums here that range from evolving LACMA (whose collection is larger and more extensive than anything San Francisco has) to the hilltop acropolis known as the Getty Center (the Getty Trust is the world's wealthiest art institution) to contemporary MOCA (one of the best museums for contemporary art in the United States) to the classic Griffith Observatory. Your very own New York Times proclaims that the "Los Angeles Philharmonic tops the list of America's premier orchestras" (http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/15/arts/music/15kozi.html). And if that weren't enough, dozens and dozens of art galleries operate in Downtown, Culver City, and Santa Monica. Then there's this place called Hollywood, which is widely recognized around the world as being THE center for the production of motion pictures, television, and music. One of the largest producers of such entertainment is the Walt Disney Company (based in Burbank), which is the world's third largest media conglomerate. So much for Los Angeles being a culturally dull, or as you put it "BLAH" city.

Read up on our schools and universities. Caltech is ranked #6 in the WORLD, outranking all Ivy League schools except Harvard and MIT. Caltech also operates JPL, which is the lead US center for robotic exploration of the solar system. UCLA is ranked #13 and the UCLA Medical Center was recently named the #3 medical center in the country (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=22560472&postcount=234). Then there's USC, which is always a solid school, and the Claremont Colleges, which rank among America's best liberal arts colleges.

Our container ports handle 43% of the goods entering the United States. They are undergoing rapid expansion, which will significantly increase traffic volumes. LAX, our chief airport, is the fifth busiest in the world and the busiest by origin and destination. In addition to that, LAX is to handle more Airbus A380 aircraft than any other airport except London Heathrow.

Our population of 18 million (and growing) is extremely diverse and international. They hail from all over the globe... Korea, Mexico, China, Japan, Cambodia, Vietnam, Thailand, Philippines, Armenia, Oceania, Guatemala, Nicaragua, El Salvador, Russia, Canada, Britain, Iran, Ethiopia, etc. This is why Los Angeles has so many great cheap ethnic eats. Los Angeles boasts the second largest Jewish population outside of Israel and is the most religiously diverse city in the world (http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/crcc/demographics/lacounty.html).

We have the world's most extensive freeway system (pretty obvious). But we also have a growing transportation network. Our bus system is the second largest and second busiest in the country. Our commuter rail is the third most extensive in the country. Our inner city rail, in just 20 years time (began in 1990), is already 83% of the Chicago L. If all goes according to plan, Los Angeles' Metro Rail will be larger than Chicago's L by 2015.

Our fashion scene continues to gain steam (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=662178), we have ambitious plans to go green (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=555907), and the world's wealthy are choosing Los Angeles over New York City and London (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=628727).

Then there's the weather and scenery (as nygirl mentioned).

It's amazing how Los Angeles, with all the traffic gridlock, pollution, gangs, earthquakes, mudslides, riots, class tensions (less severe nowadays), and fake people (:|) can still hold on for dear life.

I don't care if one is from Podunk or from New York City. It is absurd to ignore the importance and the offerings of Los Angeles. LA is a major global city by any measure. Sadly that reality is often more missing in the United States than it is in other parts of the world.

Westsidelife is forced to make this list of LA virtues because of the insanity in which that city is put down. LA's major enough on its own that it doesn't stand in the shaddow of any city, nor does it need the validation of any.

Out of these cities I've only been to Boston, Philadelphia, DC, Atlanta and Miami. But I have some idea of the other cities as well. They're all rather small except Chicago of course, but other than that:

Boston - great downtown density and a mix of old and new architecture, can't be found anywhere else in the same quantity. More expensive than New York.

Philadelphia - the market street in the downtown comes relatively close to the Manhattan feel, which can't be found anywhere else. Just yesterday I witnessed a movie there being filmed that will take place in New York. The old city district is the most amazing concentration of historical buildings in America. New York is missing anything close to the Benjamin Frankling Parkway area, which is my favorite part of the city.

DC - totally different from New York. The concentration and magnitude of the neoclassical buildings in the center is extraordinary. The only city out of the ones that I've been to that doesn't feel "small" compared to New York. I don't mean the residential outskirts of course.

Chicago - as close to NY as it gets anywhere.

Atlanta - empty but great skyscrapers

Miami - I found it to be an extremely boring city, almost nothing to look at

Houston - some impressive skyscrapers, great skyline

Seattle - can't really say anything about it other than the skyline is fairly good

SF - the city has a lot of character and its one of the few cities that doesn't feel inferior to New York, or at least that's my opinion.

LA - overrated, but other than that similar to what I said about SF. I see LA as being more about its suburban areas far from the downtown, the actual cluster in the city center isn't anything spectacular.

Stop comparing everything to New York.

K THNX BYE.